Valuetainment - ＂They Paid People To Spy On Us＂ - Binance's RUTHLESS Rise To The World's BIGGEST Crypto Empire

00:00:00.040 Okay, when I sell my business, I want the best tax and investment advice.

00:00:04.800 I want to help my kids, and I want to give back to the community.

00:00:07.940 Ooh, then it's the vacation of a lifetime.

00:00:12.200 I wonder if my out-of-office has a forever setting.

00:00:15.740 An IG Private Wealth Advisor creates the clarity you need

00:00:19.060 with plans that harmonize your business, your family, and your dreams.

00:00:23.480 Get financial advice that puts you at the center.

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00:00:30.000 People are believing what you're going to be doing.

00:00:31.840 They're sitting there, you know, they're believers of what CZ is going to be doing.

00:00:35.360 At what point was it when you're like, guys, this thing's off to the races.

00:00:40.140 We built some special.

00:00:41.080 When did that happen?

00:00:41.980 I think it was about a month after launch.

00:00:43.980 So we launched in July 14th, 2017.

00:00:46.940 A month after launch, we were like, we were growing.

00:00:51.200 The first three weeks, the BNB price was actually underwater.

00:00:54.140 It was below the ICO price.

00:00:55.380 So that was like high pressure period.

00:00:56.620 and then about a month later

00:00:58.200 but a week

00:00:59.300 the next week

00:01:00.440 B&B price went 29x

00:01:02.440 right

00:01:03.080 this is like 2,900 times

00:01:05.020 in one month

00:01:05.840 2,900%

00:01:07.680 in one week

00:01:08.600 in one week

00:01:09.740 in the fourth week

00:01:11.260 and then that's when I

00:01:12.820 okay

00:01:13.060 this thing might work

00:01:14.240 if it stays

00:01:15.160 and also our

00:01:15.920 we look at our user growth

00:01:17.680 on the platform

00:01:19.000 the users were growing like this

00:01:20.400 so there were real users

00:01:21.900 with real trading

00:01:22.860 and then it was about

00:01:24.400 I forgot

00:01:25.100 it was like maybe

00:01:25.840 two months three months in ask our finance like no how are we doing financially the guy said well

00:01:30.820 we're making a couple hundred bitcoins like like i thought that number was wrong i was like there's

00:01:35.200 no way we're making that kind of fees couple hundred bitcoins but back then bitcoins were

00:01:39.940 maybe like three thousand dollars or it's not like a hundred thousand dollars today uh well not

00:01:43.920 like seventy eighty thousand dollars today um but like it's but yeah it was like a couple hundred

00:01:50.160 bitcoins uh on on on revenue i was like there's no way that's correct and so we double checked

00:01:55.940 the numbers we're like okay then we got this correct but then we got a we probably got a

00:01:59.800 viable business wow 200 bitcoins a day no no not a day like over over a period of time over that

00:02:05.460 that few weeks that you're talking about over like maybe one or two months i i don't yeah and you

00:02:09.660 know in your mind that's a lot at that point like things are starting to pick up for us six hundred

00:02:13.460 thousand dollars right 200 bitcoins at 300 at uh three thousand dollars am i saying it correctly

00:02:18.780 $600,000.

00:02:19.800 Yeah.

00:02:20.320 I think so.

00:02:21.100 So things started growing.

00:02:23.260 And then how long did it take you guys

00:02:24.560 until you got the billion-dollar valuation?

00:02:26.540 I took a...

00:02:27.620 So we...

00:02:28.800 I don't know when the valuation is,

00:02:29.980 but we are one of the fastest companies

00:02:32.380 to reach $1 billion in profits.

00:02:34.500 I think that took about a year.

00:02:36.440 Profits took one year?

00:02:38.080 Yeah.

00:02:38.440 Not Rev.

00:02:39.300 Not Rev.

00:02:39.820 Not Rev.

00:02:40.180 So it's profits.

00:02:41.360 Yeah.

00:02:42.420 Well, at the time,

00:02:43.900 profits and Rev is pretty similar.

00:02:45.760 Because your margins are so...

00:02:46.980 Because our team is small.

00:02:48.520 our cost is low at that time.

00:02:51.180 At that time, AT&T is very small.

00:02:52.520 And so, yeah, that's about a year.

00:02:56.520 So at that time, who are the major,

00:02:58.520 who are the top five biggest players in crypto Bitcoin

00:03:01.520 in 2017, 2018?

00:03:03.520 Yeah, there was Polonex, which was the biggest.

00:03:05.520 And then later on, Btracks became the biggest

00:03:07.520 by the time we launched.

00:03:08.520 Who else?

00:03:10.520 Coinbase was up there, but not the biggest.

00:03:12.520 There was a Bitflyer in Japan who was like,

00:03:14.520 you know, pretty big, the biggest for a while.

00:03:18.520 Bitfinex was the biggest for a while, too.

00:03:22.640 Who else?

00:03:23.280 Those were kind of like the three or four players.

00:03:25.480 Got it.

00:03:25.760 So a billion dollars in profits.

00:03:28.560 Did you yet sense that you're making enemies or no?

00:03:32.600 Everybody is good with you guys.

00:03:34.140 You're not getting weird phone calls.

00:03:35.660 People are not upset at you.

00:03:37.100 Other people are not experiencing envy.

00:03:38.680 Or did you start experiencing enemies?

00:03:40.580 We started experiencing jealousy even from day one.

00:03:43.640 Even before, like just from day one we launched,

00:03:46.160 people were like

00:03:47.540 competitors

00:03:49.700 other exchanges

00:03:50.480 were somewhat hostile

00:03:51.300 but that's just competition

00:03:52.780 so that's just

00:03:53.480 business competition

00:03:54.240 nothing dirty

00:03:55.060 some of them are

00:03:57.080 a little bit

00:03:57.820 borderline

00:03:58.520 so there's a lot of

00:03:59.940 smear articles

00:04:00.700 that are sponsored

00:04:01.740 by our competitors

00:04:02.920 which is great for us

00:04:03.980 which is great for us

00:04:05.240 because we're

00:04:05.740 a new platform

00:04:06.440 we couldn't afford

00:04:07.460 their advertising money

00:04:08.320 and they were talking

00:04:08.940 about us

00:04:09.940 so

00:04:11.140 there has been

00:04:13.220 attacks

00:04:13.900 what we call FUD

00:04:14.680 fear, uncertainty

00:04:15.880 in doubt basically false news um for even from day one um but uh but that's i think i thought

00:04:22.000 that was just business competition um the regulatory scrutiny came much later um the

00:04:27.700 regulatory scrutiny came like 2020 like three four years later yeah the year one where you're going

00:04:33.540 zero to a billion in profits and you guys are getting oh my god we got 200 bitcoins what are

00:04:37.200 you talking about that what does your schedule look like year one oh that was the year one was

00:04:41.900 crazy give me the schedule what does it look like what are you doing i basically will go

00:04:45.220 home to sleep uh from like 2 a.m to about 6 a.m uh like that's returning home and leaving home

00:04:52.060 right so that's shower and sleep in between and then i will probably take a nap in the office

00:04:56.640 like around 2 to 2 to 3 p.m somewhere around there like depending on who's in who's what

00:05:02.260 meetings we have uh and the team probably did the same uh very similar stuff for like basically a

00:05:07.680 year um uh the whole team was in the office the whole time um the office is very high like very

00:05:13.220 like very loud it's just buzzing with energy it's just people yelling over each other it's like a

00:05:17.100 flea market um so yeah that was like the first year and um it was just constant issues constant

00:05:24.380 uh constant stuff happening yeah you missed that actually some of part some part of me do um the

00:05:31.340 there's a there's a feeling that people really miss it's like fighting with fighting the trenches

00:05:36.300 with your comrades, with your teammates,

00:05:38.600 that's a very rewarding feeling.

00:05:41.140 It's a very strong social connection.

00:05:44.340 But honestly, I don't think my body can handle it now.

00:05:48.240 When you tell the story and you go through a phase like that,

00:05:51.420 the average person, they won't believe it

00:05:53.000 when you tell them the story.

00:05:53.940 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:05:54.900 Most people cannot imagine how hard we work.

00:05:56.880 Were you ever hospitalized for anxiety, for exhaustion?

00:05:59.800 Were you ever experiencing like dehydration

00:06:01.740 where you had to go and get yourself IV?

00:06:04.180 No, I have not.

00:06:05.280 But other people on our team have.

00:06:06.860 On your team.

00:06:07.600 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:06:08.140 Other people on our team.

00:06:09.120 So I tell people entrepreneurship is a physical demanding activity.

00:06:14.540 It's not just mental.

00:06:15.420 It's a physically demanding activity.

00:06:18.480 Our CTO still use eye drops from today.

00:06:21.440 From those days, he got an eye infection.

00:06:23.380 He had to use eye drops.

00:06:24.640 He still uses that.

00:06:25.700 Till today.

00:06:26.040 Till today.

00:06:26.660 So he's still there.

00:06:28.080 He's no longer CTO now, but he's still there.

00:06:30.460 He's one of the co-founders.

00:06:31.400 The original people that were there,

00:06:33.200 is it fair to say they're all financially successful

00:06:35.960 beyond the wildest imagination?

00:06:37.980 They all are successful.

00:06:39.200 And you guys are all friends still.

00:06:40.400 You guys have relationships together.

00:06:41.720 That's a beautiful thing about building something like that.

00:06:43.880 And 80% of the co-founders are still with the company.

00:06:47.360 I'm actually one of the person that, you know, stacked back.

00:06:51.800 And also, even the people who left, we're friends.

00:06:56.300 So my co-founders made money.

00:06:58.960 So there's a saying, especially in the Chinese communities,

00:07:01.960 that, you know, I have been a pretty good leader

00:07:03.940 that, you know, actually did my people well.

00:07:05.780 That's good.

00:07:06.440 And by the way, would you consider yourself Chinese?

00:07:09.640 Like if somebody asks you nationality,

00:07:11.820 would you say I'm Chinese?

00:07:12.780 No, I think I'm definitely, like, so I'm ethnicity-wise,

00:07:16.400 I'm Chinese, right, by blood.

00:07:17.880 But my thinking, my way of doing business,

00:07:20.100 my mental process is much, much more Canadian, U.S. even.

00:07:24.400 Canadian, U.S.

00:07:25.400 Yeah, like I think my English accent is more U.S. centric,

00:07:30.320 even though it may not be perfect.

00:07:33.360 But the way I think and I do business

00:07:35.340 is much more U.S. capitalist.

00:07:37.960 Western ideology.

00:07:39.320 Western ideology, freedom-driven, et cetera, yeah.

00:07:42.880 So let's go back to Binance.

00:07:44.380 So you're at a billion.

00:07:45.880 You're starting to get some articles

00:07:46.920 being written about you.

00:07:48.400 You're getting some enemies coming to you.

00:07:50.820 At this point, has Sam Bankman-Fried

00:07:53.240 started anything or nothing yet?

00:07:54.980 No, no, no.

00:07:55.660 He started way later.

00:07:56.720 He started, earliest I met him was January 2019.

00:08:00.860 So you start 17, you don't meet him till 19.

00:08:04.080 Yeah, yeah.

00:08:04.700 And does he have a name in the market?

00:08:06.280 Like, do people know who he is or nothing yet?

00:08:08.100 No.

00:08:08.560 When I met him, I didn't know who he was.

00:08:10.060 Our client manager tells me,

00:08:13.200 Alameda was a pretty decent trader,

00:08:15.680 a pretty big trader on Binance.

00:08:16.920 Like, okay, who's Alameda?

00:08:18.220 Okay, I'll go shake his hand.

00:08:19.760 Got it.

00:08:20.200 And Alameda was him?

00:08:21.860 Yeah.

00:08:22.320 Okay.

00:08:22.800 Okay, so in the market now, by 2020,

00:08:26.020 who is Binance by 2020?

00:08:30.320 By 2020, Binance has been the biggest crypto exchange for more than three years.

00:08:37.520 So people just view Binance as the largest crypto exchange.

00:08:41.040 But at that point, back to back to back, you're the King Kong of the space.

00:08:44.880 I wouldn't say King Kong. Binance was the largest centralized exchange.

00:08:49.120 But there's decentralized, there's blockchains, there's other things,

00:08:52.960 there's stablecoins, there's other businesses in the ecosystem.

00:08:55.840 The criticism that some people give is, and I wonder, of course,

00:08:59.200 course it's a strategy when it's the zero fee strategy that you had how did you guys what was

00:09:04.500 your thinking behind that what what prompted you to say we're not going to charge a fee here's how

00:09:09.280 our approach is going to be and you know the market's going to react to it how did that idea

00:09:14.560 come about i think it's a very simple business idea where um you want to put you want to provide

00:09:19.680 no a large amount of value and you only want to realize a small portion of it so you want to

00:09:23.720 provide a value of 10 and hopefully only take five for yourself.

00:09:29.680 If you can do that consistently, people will do a lot of business with you.

00:09:33.100 Your customers will come to you and you will grow quickly.

00:09:35.420 Why didn't others do it?

00:09:36.500 If it's such a simple thing, why didn't the other guys do it?

00:09:39.060 I think a lot of people have in their heads that they want to maximize their cut on each transaction.

00:09:44.920 What you want to do is actually you want to minimize your cut on each transaction

00:09:48.120 and you want to increase the number of transactions.

00:09:50.200 So you multiply the scale.

00:09:52.060 the scale many people just don't can't handle it many people just want to like you know i want to

00:09:57.360 take the maximum that's possible that's that's harsh but if but for example if you look at some

00:10:02.820 of the largest businesses google uh google makes fees on advertising but they provide a lot of free

00:10:08.140 infrastructure in in the internet space um the time clock that we use is probably synced by with

00:10:13.920 a google time server and that's completely free um the dns services that you know is completely

00:10:18.960 completely free so they provide a lot of infrastructure to run the internet completely

00:10:22.800 free they just make money from advertising like from some ads and now the ads is covered coverage

00:10:28.900 is more spread across different products but for years they only advertise on search like gmail was

00:10:34.740 no ads um google maps was no ads for years right so but they were able to make enough money to

00:10:40.880 sustain themselves we had the same we were in a very lucky for the same fortunate problem a situation

00:10:46.720 where our revenues from a small amount of business

00:10:50.000 from a few businesses were able to sustain us

00:10:52.440 to provide more free services to everyone

00:10:54.640 so that we can grow the industry,

00:10:56.220 we can grow the crypto industry.

00:10:58.100 And so if you provide a value of 10

00:11:00.800 and you charge only two and you can sustain yourself

00:11:03.200 and you can scale, your business will grow really fast.

00:11:06.700 So many people don't realize that.

00:11:08.320 You actually want to charge the minimum fee,

00:11:10.580 the minimum cut that you are sustainable

00:11:12.700 and hopefully you can scale.

00:11:14.820 If you can do that, you'll make way more money

00:11:16.460 than you charge eight or nine.

00:11:18.360 So where's the real money made with Binance?

00:11:21.280 Trading fees, actually.

00:11:22.500 Trading fees.

00:11:23.060 Just trading fees.

00:11:24.080 When people trade, we charge a small commission

00:11:25.980 or Binance charges a small commission.

00:11:28.060 That's, yeah.

00:11:29.480 Comparable to others,

00:11:30.800 how much lower are you compared to others?

00:11:33.320 I think compared to some,

00:11:34.800 especially some of the US players,

00:11:36.320 we're probably 20x lower.

00:11:38.420 20x lower.

00:11:39.260 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:11:39.940 So in some places.

00:11:42.140 So, yeah.

00:11:43.780 So we provide the lowest fees in the non-U.S. markets.

00:11:52.120 We don't have access to, like, that fee, we don't have access to the U.S. markets yet.

00:11:57.140 Got it.

00:11:57.760 So 20 times less than competitors.

00:12:00.840 So that got the world to come to you.

00:12:04.260 So then you have volume.

00:12:05.840 Did other people try to replicate that model as well?

00:12:08.820 People do.

00:12:09.340 People try, yeah.

00:12:10.280 To make it a zero fee, like a very low fee?

00:12:12.340 People try.

00:12:13.060 People even try to pay users to trade on them.

00:12:17.980 People try to have all kinds of different models.

00:12:19.760 Has anybody succeeded as wildly as you guys did coming out?

00:12:25.380 No, I would say no.

00:12:27.980 Fees is important.

00:12:29.360 Fees is one part.

00:12:30.300 There's other parts like how you protect users,

00:12:33.240 how good is customer service,

00:12:35.840 how well you do things overall,

00:12:37.460 how good is your technology.

00:12:39.360 There's multiple things in play.

00:12:40.940 But fees is important, I think.

00:12:42.620 So can you give me some numbers? Because when I look at the numbers that I pulled up with what you guys have done, some of these numbers are wild when you look at the stats.

00:12:51.480 So lifetime trading volume, $125 trillion. Total users, registered users globally, 280 to 300 million registered users.

00:13:00.900 At peak, you held 70% of market share during zero fee promotions.

00:13:05.520 Closest competitor, Bybit, only 8% of market share.

00:13:09.080 Revenue estimate, $16 billion to $20 billion in 2024, 2025,

00:13:13.120 two and a half times Coinbase.

00:13:14.800 I mean, I can go through a lot of these numbers.

00:13:17.460 It's insane what some of the things.

00:13:18.900 At peak promotions, 85% of total weekly volume was zero fee.

00:13:24.480 Market share skyrocketed from 50% to 70%

00:13:26.700 when you announced a zero fee Bitcoin trading on July of 2022.

00:13:32.340 Some of these numbers are staggering.

00:13:34.640 At what point were you, when did the company's valuation hit $100 billion?

00:13:41.020 Oh, actually, I don't even know.

00:13:42.860 I'm not sure if that happened yet.

00:13:45.320 What was the biggest milestone you guys celebrated?

00:13:48.420 What was something where even you were shocked by it?

00:13:51.000 I think we, well, Binance generally counts number of users.

00:13:54.600 That's probably the easiest milestone.

00:13:56.640 Trading volume, it's pretty easy to count as well.

00:13:59.420 Valuation, Binance is a private company.

00:14:02.020 Got it.

00:14:02.780 I don't think Binance has ever done a deal, had a raise or had a...

00:14:06.720 The numbers you will hear about is $100 to $300 billion.

00:14:09.240 But to you, it's a private company, so you don't even know what it's worth.

00:14:12.080 There's no transaction at those valuations.

00:14:13.740 So those are estimates by third parties.

00:14:15.800 But the company has never raised money at those valuations.

00:14:19.380 So, yeah.

00:14:20.980 But the thing we, for me personally, as a shareholder,

00:14:24.800 not running the company anymore, I just look at the user numbers.

00:14:28.040 I just said, look, and they publish that publicly.

00:14:31.180 So, you know, 300 million, 315 million.

00:14:34.120 Those are good numbers to service you.

00:14:37.240 Pretty wild.

00:14:37.840 To service users.

00:14:38.600 When we set out to create a shoe that blends comfort, function, and luxury,

00:14:44.300 we had the choice to make it fast.

00:14:46.600 We had the choice to make it cheap.

00:14:48.640 We chose neither.

00:14:50.160 Instead, we chose Toscaneiro.

00:14:52.320 We chose true Italian craftsmanship.

00:14:55.120 Each pair touched by 50 skilled hands.

00:14:57.400 We chose patience, spending two years perfecting every detail, and we chose the finest quality at every step.

00:15:05.460 Introducing the Future Looks Bright collection.

00:15:09.080 Not rushed, not disposable, not ordinary.

00:15:13.340 Rather intentional, luxurious, timeless.

00:15:22.360 If you enjoyed this video, you want to watch more videos like this, click here.

00:15:25.680 And if you want to watch the entire podcast, click here.

Valuetainment - May 14, 2026

＂They Paid People To Spy On Us＂ - Binance's RUTHLESS Rise To The World's BIGGEST Crypto Empire

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