Valuetainment - ＂We're DESTROYING OURSELVES From Within＂

00:00:00.000 Jack, you're a 20-year vet, a sniper, a Navy SEAL.

00:00:03.760 You've written New York Times bestsellers.

00:00:05.340 You have a lot of experiences.

00:00:06.540 That's the one thing that hasn't changed since the beginning of time

00:00:08.900 is that primal nature of combat.

00:00:10.600 Things have evolved technology-wise.

00:00:12.380 It really comes down to you putting another human in the ground,

00:00:15.840 and that part has not changed.

00:00:17.280 For me, there's no possible way that as a combat leader

00:00:20.380 I would be able to treat a female exactly the same as I would one of the guys.

00:00:24.820 For whatever reason, I'm programmed to protect females.

00:00:27.200 That's how I was raised.

00:00:28.400 I think it's just innate in us as humans

00:00:31.180 to protect those who are going to carry on

00:00:34.060 and make sure that our bloodlines and our species continue to move forward.

00:00:41.180 So if you feel like you have a pretty accomplished resume,

00:00:44.340 my guest today served 20 years in the Navy SEAL, as a Navy SEAL.

00:00:49.060 He was an enlisted sniper.

00:00:50.560 Then he was a supervisor for snipers.

00:00:52.380 Then after he went and saved the world as a Navy SEAL,

00:00:54.960 he decides to come out and write books.

00:00:56.880 He doesn't just write any books.

00:00:58.080 Every book he's ever written has been a New York Times bestseller,

00:01:00.900 and one of them just became the number one New York Times bestseller,

00:01:05.140 and that is Jack Carr.

00:01:06.960 Jack, thank you so much for being a guest on Valley Tainment.

00:01:09.740 Thank you so much for having me.

00:01:11.260 I'm so excited to talk to you for a couple of selfish reasons,

00:01:14.420 because I'm taking notes as we go,

00:01:16.200 just seeing how you've done, how you've built what you have built over these years.

00:01:20.740 It's so impressive, and I sincerely appreciate you having me on.

00:01:24.420 Well, I appreciate that.

00:01:25.780 I was looking at your stuff.

00:01:27.060 I'm like, this guy.

00:01:27.880 I mean, you know, from one side to the other side.

00:01:30.680 You know, most people end up making it to the top of maybe one space,

00:01:34.480 but for you to do it in two space, that's pretty impressive.

00:01:36.900 So let's get right into it, Jack.

00:01:39.520 At what point did you know you wanted to be a Navy SEAL,

00:01:42.780 and if you can kind of walk us through you becoming a Navy SEAL and what that was like?

00:01:46.900 Yeah.

00:01:47.440 So, I mean, very early on.

00:01:48.800 So I'm one of those people that knew what I wanted to do from a very early age,

00:01:51.760 and I think a lot of that has to do with my grandfather being killed in World War II.

00:01:56.080 So I never obviously grew up with him, but I grew up with medals from his squadron.

00:02:00.280 He was a Corsair pilot, and for those that remember,

00:02:02.760 there was a show in the late 70s, early 80s called Black Sheep Squadron with Robert Conrad,

00:02:07.160 where they had Pappy Boynton's Black Sheep Squadron out in the Pacific with the Corsair

00:02:10.860 that had the wings that would fall off, the gold wings like that,

00:02:13.960 and that's what my grandfather flew.

00:02:16.140 So I had his medals.

00:02:17.360 I had pictures of him in his squadron.

00:02:19.040 I had his wings, and I just grew up knowing that I was going to follow his footsteps into the military.

00:02:26.760 I didn't quite know what yet, but I knew military was my path,

00:02:29.920 and then I found out about SEALs.

00:02:31.360 And once again, this is an example of the power of popular culture

00:02:35.140 that I found out about SEALs through a movie,

00:02:37.960 through an old black-and-white film called The Frogmen.

00:02:40.460 And the only reason I got to watch The Frogmen is because I got to flip the channel on,

00:02:45.180 and for those that grew up in the 70s, you remember that you were the TV remote.

00:02:48.660 You had a dad on the couch.

00:02:50.320 You had to run up.

00:02:50.980 You had four channels.

00:02:52.140 You had ABC, NBC, CBS.

00:02:53.880 You had that one outlier channel.

00:02:55.540 Those were the four.

00:02:56.480 And during the commercials for football on Sundays,

00:03:00.260 I got to run up and turn that channel to that outlier channel

00:03:03.400 because they were always playing a World War II type of movie.

00:03:06.420 And I got to watch it for two minutes, and my dad would watch on his watch.

00:03:09.600 And after two minutes, flip it back.

00:03:11.100 I'd flip it back to football, and we'd watch football until the next commercial.

00:03:13.700 But one of those showed these guys swimming up over the beach

00:03:16.800 and putting explosives on obstacles in the advance of a conventional force landing.

00:03:20.760 And I asked my dad, hey, who are these guys?

00:03:23.060 And he said, those are frogmen.

00:03:24.580 That was the name of the movie.

00:03:25.880 And I said, what are frogmen?

00:03:27.300 These guys look amazing.

00:03:28.860 And he said, go ask your mother.

00:03:30.240 And I was also very lucky because my mom was a librarian.

00:03:32.640 So we got to go down to the local library and start researching.

00:03:35.520 So she took every opportunity she could to take us to the library

00:03:38.420 and teach us about researching and just get us into books.

00:03:40.720 We grew up surrounded by books and a love of reading.

00:03:43.720 So early 80s, you could read almost everything about special operations.

00:03:46.840 Most of it focused on Vietnam back then.

00:03:49.320 But there were a couple of magazine articles, a book here and there.

00:03:53.440 But there wasn't much in the early 80s, mid-80s.

00:03:55.920 In the 90s, it started to get a lot more.

00:03:57.820 And in the 2000s, obviously, after September 11th,

00:03:59.940 all that information exploded in the internet.

00:04:01.620 You could spend the rest of your life researching and not doing.

00:04:05.760 That's the part where you have to find that line where you prepare enough

00:04:10.120 to then take that step and do it.

00:04:12.760 But back in the day, you didn't have any choice.

00:04:15.380 Yeah.

00:04:15.740 Jack, let me ask you.

00:04:16.800 When you were going in, so, for example, for me, when I went into the Army,

00:04:20.940 I was like, okay, here's what my recruiter said it was going to be.

00:04:24.520 This is exactly what he said it was going to be.

00:04:27.360 I was not expecting this.

00:04:29.020 What was it for you when you became a Navy SEAL where you said,

00:04:31.560 I was expecting a Navy SEAL to be this?

00:04:34.020 That's exactly what it was.

00:04:35.580 But I had no idea about these three things.

00:04:37.820 Man, I wish they would have told me about this.

00:04:39.280 Or this is pretty cool to experience these three things.

00:04:41.560 What were some of those things that you experienced as a SEAL?

00:04:44.480 Yeah, I was pretty lucky in that I did all that research ahead of time,

00:04:47.920 so I didn't show up.

00:04:49.220 I wasn't surprised by how hard butts was.

00:04:51.660 I mean, I'd known since I was a little kid that 80% of people are going to quit.

00:04:54.820 That was part of the draw towards going there is because it is touted as one of the toughest

00:04:59.480 training regimens ever devised by a modern military.

00:05:01.680 So that was the draw for me.

00:05:03.740 So I didn't show up, and I wasn't shocked that I was going to be cold, wet, tired, and hungry.

00:05:07.780 They were going to make me stay up for a week during Hell Week.

00:05:09.720 None of these things came as a shock to me.

00:05:11.920 I'd been preparing for quite some time.

00:05:14.380 But the shock, I think, and it wasn't really a shock.

00:05:16.460 It was just kind of walking across the quarter deck at my first SEAL team.

00:05:20.960 And most of the experience of my peers was similar in that we all thought we were going to get issued the pager.

00:05:26.720 We were going to get issued all this amazing gear.

00:05:29.480 The pager was going to go off in the middle of the night.

00:05:31.340 We're going to fly off and do the Save the Princess op, save the world, and then fly back in time for beers the next night.

00:05:36.880 And that was not how it was in the late 90s when you got to the SEAL team.

00:05:40.100 They handed you a broom as a guy, and they said, hey, go sweep that.

00:05:43.460 Go paint that wall, change that light bulb, take out the track.

00:05:46.080 You did new guy type stuff.

00:05:47.920 And there was nothing really going on in the world.

00:05:51.200 But you had to be prepared.

00:05:52.240 That was your job, is to be prepared to go to war.

00:05:55.160 And then after September 11th, then it became what we thought it was going to be when we first got to our SEAL teams.

00:06:00.560 And then from September 11th all the way through today, it became exactly what we thought was going out there and executing the mission for the country.

00:06:08.440 How about when you went to war?

00:06:10.320 How about when you went and you got deployed?

00:06:12.440 What was exactly what you expected it to be?

00:06:14.660 What was different?

00:06:17.100 Interesting question.

00:06:17.840 So the relief of because you've trained so much and you've prepared so much for this, but you really don't know until you go out there and do it if you're going to perform.

00:06:28.760 So that little part, that little Megan question in the back of your head, and I didn't anticipate what it would feel like to go out and do those first missions, what that would feel like internally.

00:06:40.860 I know I would go out, do the mechanics of it, but it was this sense of relief that I had been tested in combat and I was not found wanting.

00:06:49.640 I did not let the guys down to my right and left.

00:06:52.420 And that was this feeling of relief for me anyway, I don't really know for anybody else, but I had this sense of relief like, okay, it wasn't just training.

00:07:01.560 It wasn't just thing I aspire to.

00:07:03.160 I have now done it.

00:07:04.520 And now I'm building on this foundation, adding experience to that training.

00:07:08.580 And then I continue to add that experience, continue to learn from both mistakes and failures going forward.

00:07:14.980 So it's all about adapting, as you know, both in life and on the battlefield, no matter what you're doing.

00:07:22.420 But that was the sense of relief, I think, that was most surprising to me.

00:07:26.720 Did you have any shock factor?

00:07:28.320 Was there any shock factor to you where, you know, like let's a pitcher, okay?

00:07:34.900 A pitcher plays for high school, then he maybe goes and plays AAA, and then, hey, he gets called up.

00:07:40.360 You're going to come and pitch.

00:07:41.500 First game's going to be in St. Louis Cardinals.

00:07:44.960 You know, you come out, oh, my gosh, 60,000 people.

00:07:47.760 And then you get up there and you're looking at the guy, you know, Mike Trout's up, whoever's up.

00:07:52.260 You know, it's the different leagues.

00:07:53.240 And you're like, okay, I've got to pitch this guy.

00:07:54.960 The booing, you know, maybe the speed, you know, they say from college football to NFL speed, everything's faster.

00:08:02.360 What was a shock factor for you?

00:08:04.580 Was there anything when you got deployed where you said, nobody prepared me for this?

00:08:09.120 Was there anything?

00:08:10.760 I think the confusion of how hard it was to tell where the enemy is, where the bullets are coming from, where the mortars are coming from, where the RPGs are coming in from.

00:08:19.840 In the chaos of combat, in particular, the campaign for Najaf, which was a two-week campaign in Iraq to retake the city from the Jay Shah Mahdi militia in August of 2004.

00:08:29.700 And it was just chaos.

00:08:31.460 And it was like what I had seen on those World War II movies I watched with my dad, where just there's bullets flying everywhere.

00:08:36.520 It's an urban environment.

00:08:37.420 And you're kind of not really sure.

00:08:39.360 You're hearing these tracks, and you're just not sure exactly what's going on because you're getting these Bradleys, these fighting vehicles.

00:08:46.580 And they move around.

00:08:47.660 They have these tracked vehicles.

00:08:48.920 So you're kind of discombobulated.

00:08:50.740 Things are exploding everywhere.

00:08:52.120 You're moving in.

00:08:52.880 And then the back drops down, and you run out into the fight.

00:08:56.100 And it's kind of like getting your bearings is a little bit discombobulating, I guess, is the best way.

00:09:03.020 How similar is it to that one scene?

00:09:04.000 You know the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan, where they open it up, and then bam.

00:09:08.220 Did you have an experience like that when you went out there, where it was sudden?

00:09:12.300 I think that experience of the Bradley fighting vehicle having that ramp go down in the middle of a firefight, he's dropping you off.

00:09:18.160 Because you don't really know.

00:09:18.960 You're not as a sniper in the back or as an assault team leader in the back.

00:09:21.980 You're not really in communication with the guys that are driving.

00:09:26.340 And even if you were, you wouldn't be exactly sure.

00:09:28.420 It looked like a math study that you did.

00:09:30.400 And all of a sudden, boom, you're out there, and it's time to go.

00:09:32.920 So that would be the most similar, but I don't think it's anything could ever be like with those guys experienced going over the beaches at Normandy.

00:09:40.760 That's just a whole other level.

00:09:42.680 I mean, you're going in to a place where the enemy is entrenched.

00:09:46.460 The enemy has the high ground.

00:09:48.680 They have pretty much all the advantages.

00:09:50.880 And you're running across open space to try to get up to that high ground when they have machine guns in place up there.

00:09:57.140 That's back when it was hard.

00:09:59.380 Yeah, I remember the first time I watched that movie.

00:10:01.560 I get to the unit.

00:10:02.980 I don't even know when Saving Private Ryan came out.

00:10:05.780 So I get to 101st Airborne September of 97, Saving Private Ryan.

00:10:12.280 Let's see when it came out.

00:10:13.620 Right, so a couple years later, probably 2000 or something.

00:10:16.060 98.

00:10:16.580 There you go.

00:10:16.920 That makes sense.

00:10:17.520 So we got to the unit.

00:10:18.500 A couple months later, they said, there's a movie coming out that's about your unit that you guys are going to get a chance to see it before anybody else sees it.

00:10:24.940 So we went in.

00:10:25.540 We sit down in this theater with 600 other soldiers.

00:10:28.360 We're watching this movie.

00:10:29.820 It's called Saving Private Ryan.

00:10:31.440 It's about your unit.

00:10:32.440 You're going to be so proud, and at the beginning, we're just watching it.

00:10:35.380 At the end, 600 soldiers in tears, fired up, so proud to be representing a unit like that, saying, hey, I'm proud to be here.

00:10:43.640 Very emotional when you see a movie like that.

00:10:45.320 What a great job they did.

00:10:46.860 Hanks, all those guys.

00:10:47.800 Just one of the best movies I've seen of all time.

00:10:49.940 But did you ever see the movie Fury with Brad Pitt?

00:10:53.340 No, I keep meaning to see it.

00:10:54.580 I need to see that movie.

00:10:55.620 So there is this one scene, Jack.

00:10:58.180 Have you seen that scene?

00:10:59.780 Have you seen the movie Fury with Brad Pitt?

00:11:01.460 Have you seen it where there's this one scene where they go out, and he's in the tank, and they're getting shot up, and one of the soldiers cannot handle it.

00:11:12.340 He just cannot handle it.

00:11:13.540 He's panicking.

00:11:14.280 He's frozen.

00:11:15.320 He's locked up.

00:11:16.400 He doesn't know what to do.

00:11:17.220 He starts peeing in his pants, and they have this scene.

00:11:19.660 It's a very good scene to show that some people, when it hits you all of a sudden, you don't know how you're going to react your first time.

00:11:24.580 And, you know, Brad Pitt's trying to kind of calm the guy down and say, hey, it's going to be all right.

00:11:28.280 Go through it.

00:11:29.640 Was there ever a moment like that that you saw one of your peers that was tough behind, you know, enemy lines?

00:11:35.540 But then the moment they crossed enemy lines, that pressure just kind of exposed some of the fears that we may have.

00:11:41.520 Not really.

00:11:42.240 I didn't experience that.

00:11:43.400 But if you stopped and took notice, you could see how some people didn't really fight to stay in the front line units.

00:11:51.940 I guess that's a better way.

00:11:53.320 And good for them.

00:11:54.140 I mean, if they knew beforehand that they were in the wrong line of work, or maybe they were more suited to the administrative side of the house or something like that, and they went to places where they were less likely to find themselves in Iraq and Afghanistan, I guess.

00:12:08.260 But that would be the closest thing I can think of, just because that training that we go through is so intense, especially after people started coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan and incorporating those lessons into the training.

00:12:20.120 Then, for sure, it wasn't a surprise what you were coming in to do.

00:12:25.000 So I never really experienced somebody having that type of a reaction downrange.

00:12:29.860 But I'm sure it happened, but I just never experienced that.

00:12:32.740 So for us, we flew from L.A. to Atlanta, and then we got in the Greyhound, and then it was like five of us from L.A., and we drove to South Carolina, Fort Jackson, and we're driving.

00:12:44.640 Everybody's tough because everyone's from a gang, and everyone's, you know, this guy's from 18th Street, that guy's from this, this guy.

00:12:49.720 So we're all bragging about who's tougher, and then you get to the unit, and drill sergeants come up, and they start hollering at you, and you're like, okay, I'm not used to this.

00:12:57.120 You know what your girl is doing right now?

00:12:58.580 She's with your best friend, hollering his name.

00:13:00.740 She ain't even thinking about you right now.

00:13:02.120 She's already over you, and just mentally messing with you.

00:13:05.100 And then it got to one of the tests where you had to give the other guy IVs, okay?

00:13:11.020 And it's like, it's not a big test.

00:13:12.460 I mean, to you, probably IV is not a big deal.

00:13:14.280 It's just, you know, you're just putting an IV in your body.

00:13:16.560 So we're all sitting there, like 100 of us, and one guy does it, next guy does it, next guy does it.

00:13:21.620 Five people refuse to do it.

00:13:23.420 A couple of the guys do it.

00:13:24.360 They knock out.

00:13:25.040 They pass out.

00:13:25.600 They can't handle, deal with needles.

00:13:26.940 It was interesting seeing it, you know, as you're going through the process of how some of the things you were prepared to go through, some of the things you were not prepared to go through.

00:13:37.500 But, again, in your world, it's a completely different level.

00:13:39.680 You're a Navy SEAL.

00:13:40.400 You guys are seeing stuff that only a few people get a chance to see.

00:13:43.340 So, out of curiosity, for us, we had a very initiating type of an environment where people were initiating new rookies that were coming here.

00:13:53.580 The hazing concept, which was very normal back in the days.

00:13:56.900 Nowadays, you know, the smallest joke you tell them, you may get ETS, Dishonorably discharged from the Navy because you did the wrong thing.

00:14:05.800 Like, was the hazing thing going on back then when you were in?

00:14:09.140 Because it was for us, definitely.

00:14:11.560 Yeah, no, it was.

00:14:12.720 And, you know, I can see how it could get out of hand at some levels or some places.

00:14:17.440 But for me, it was a very positive experience.

00:14:19.780 I mean, I look back on those times with my new guys, with our E5 Mafia all together there and going through that hazing.

00:14:27.080 And for whatever reason, the platoon that I was in as a new guy, they did a great job with it.

00:14:32.200 And, of course, the part you look forward to, the hazing you look forward to, is getting your trident and pounding that thing into your chest.

00:14:39.500 That's the one you look forward to.

00:14:40.660 You hear about it happening to other people.

00:14:42.020 That's what you want to have happen.

00:14:43.580 Now it's probably illegal.

00:14:44.480 Now you go to jail if you do it, probably.

00:14:46.480 But my plan, I mean, that was like, that's the rite of passage is your whole platoon coming by.

00:14:50.540 And what I remember is that the guys that were huge that I thought were going to hit so hard, they didn't hit as hard.

00:14:56.160 But, like, the guys I thought were going to be like, eh, they hit so hard.

00:14:59.840 And I distinctly remember that.

00:15:01.440 And they put you up against the Connix box.

00:15:02.880 There's no give.

00:15:03.840 And they just, bam, bam, pound that thing.

00:15:06.520 And everybody cycles through and the whole team.

00:15:08.240 And it was fantastic.

00:15:09.660 Is there still a Markville today?

00:15:12.680 No, the pins are so small.

00:15:14.360 I mean, once they go in, it's mostly impact, you know, once you hit, like, something.

00:15:19.040 Because it is big, you know.

00:15:20.800 It is.

00:15:21.500 The trident's huge.

00:15:22.740 So it's just those little pins are small.

00:15:24.760 They go in.

00:15:25.460 And, you know, that's fine.

00:15:26.440 It's like getting your ear pierced probably or something like that.

00:15:28.240 Especially when you're all yoked up from doing thousands of push-ups and pull-ups and buds.

00:15:32.020 So there's a little more padding back there.

00:15:34.140 A little more armor back then in the day.

00:15:36.420 Do you think some of the stuff that happens with the military to toughen them up, do you think it's not?

00:15:45.220 Because, you know, some people you talk to, you say, well, the method of war has changed so much that all of those things that rah, rah, you know, toughen people up.

00:15:51.540 It's not necessary today, you know, because today it's more about, you know, maybe a gentler approach to toughen soldiers up.

00:15:58.120 We don't need to do that anymore.

00:15:59.780 Today it's more of a cyber warfare.

00:16:01.480 Today it's more about not necessarily getting up on the front enemy lines.

00:16:05.120 You know, you need to toughen soldiers up in a different way.

00:16:06.960 Or do you believe, no, we still need to train our soldiers to be tough because the enemy is training their soldiers to be tougher than us?

00:16:14.180 What is your thoughts on that?

00:16:17.480 Oh, yeah.

00:16:18.120 Did you see that video that went around a few months ago that showed the Russian airborne commercial comparing it to hours?

00:16:24.960 Yeah, I saw that.

00:16:26.580 Oh, my goodness.

00:16:27.580 Well, yeah, that should tell everybody everything they need to know there.

00:16:32.140 And the part of adapting, looking at what you do on the battlefield, we have 20 years of data right now incorporating those aspects into our training.

00:16:41.500 Very smart.

00:16:42.820 But the other side is that when we're talking about adaptability, that cyber warfare piece, yeah, maybe those guys don't need to be doing what we're doing as SEALs because they're fighting a different battle space.

00:16:53.280 They're right here, just like I have no idea how to fight in that space unless they said go to the location and destroy said physical location.

00:17:02.260 Like, that's where I excel.

00:17:03.540 We're getting in there and the different levels of the Internet.

00:17:05.900 And because I'm doing all this research, my new novel that's coming out next year, and I'm looking at the cyber warfare piece and the quantum computing piece and the levels of the Internet and where these future battles might be fought.

00:17:15.720 Well, they might be fought there, but there's also that chance of an electromagnetic pulse that shuts that stuff down.

00:17:21.500 And here we are.

00:17:22.200 We're back to fighting.

00:17:23.140 So fighting, there's always that primal.

00:17:25.280 That's the one thing that hasn't changed since the beginning of time is that primal nature of combat, that visceral man-to-man, person-to-person in the trenches.

00:17:35.300 That part has stayed fairly much.

00:17:38.520 I mean, as things have evolved technology-wise, it still becomes a person against another trying to kill one another.

00:17:45.900 That part has stayed the same.

00:17:47.640 So you have to keep up with the technology, keep up with the tactics, techniques, procedures, keep learning about your enemy.

00:17:52.420 So you can better counter that enemy.

00:17:54.020 So you can better translate, if you're a leader, some of the directives coming down from higher authorities so you can get the job done there at the tactical level.

00:18:02.000 But it really comes down to you putting another human in the ground.

00:18:06.120 And that part has not changed.

00:18:07.460 Do you think we're tougher today with our training than we were 20 years ago?

00:18:11.460 Or if we're not, what's the consequence of the direction we're going today?

00:18:15.940 Yeah, so I got out right before all that stuff started to change.

00:18:21.700 So I think by the time I got out in 2016, we were doing a very good job of incorporating lessons learned from downrange.

00:18:27.960 A lot of the medical stuff had evolved quite a bit over the years because we just had so much learning, so much, we learned so much just on the ground in the battle space.

00:18:37.840 So that part, we were doing a good job of incorporating that into the pipeline, into the training.

00:18:43.900 But when you let off the gas a little bit to take a breath, which is fine to do just to make sure you're on the right path.

00:18:51.020 But then if you want to just become more inclusive because of some sort of an equity of outcome type of that, that's still in the wrong direction, I think.

00:19:01.520 And that will be our downfall.

00:19:03.460 And what's interesting in that last book that I wrote, I put myself in the enemy's shoes.

00:19:07.420 So I spent about a year and a half looking at the United States through the eyes of Iran, of Russia, of North Korea, of China.

00:19:16.400 And what was terrifying to me is that by the time I got done with that year, writing that book, looking at us from the enemy's side, I had to make some adjustments to my novel because I thought, you know what?

00:19:29.840 If I was the enemy, we're doing a pretty good job of destroying ourselves from the inside right now.

00:19:34.440 And I could just take back.

00:19:35.580 If I'm China, Russia, there's no need to rush if I'm those countries.

00:19:39.120 I can take a step back, take a breath, and I can just watch us do what we're doing to ourselves from the inside.

00:19:45.800 This discord that is perpetuated by a lot of the social media type of algorithms that work for advertising.

00:19:53.180 Well, guess what?

00:19:53.700 Yeah, they also work for political parties, and they work for galvanizing your base and getting support and raising money and that sort of a thing.

00:20:03.660 So it was disheartening, I guess, to say the least, that if I was the enemy, I might just watch us for a little bit because we're doing a lot of their jobs for them, unfortunately.

00:20:14.040 So you know the oath of enlistment, right?

00:20:16.380 When you and I did that, it's, hey, I, Patrick B. David, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same, and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me according to regulations and Uniform Code of Military Justice.

00:20:38.920 So, so help me God, right?

00:20:41.060 So, okay, this is in Title 10 U.S. Court Act of 5th of May of 1960, replacing the warding first adopted in 1789 with amendment effective 5th October of 1962.

00:20:52.100 Okay, so foreign or domestic, right?

00:20:56.480 What do we do if the enemy to protect the Constitution is domestic and it has to do with the officers above you?

00:21:06.600 So what is the right protocol if the people that are domestic, it says, you know, the Constitution protected, all enemies, foreign or domestic, what if it's domestic and it's your superiors?

00:21:16.600 How do you handle that?

00:21:18.160 That's the real question.

00:21:19.520 And that's one that I am, I guess, glad is the wrong word, but that I'm watching from the sidelines and I'm exploring the pages of my novels because it allows me time to think about it, to process, to do exactly what you just said.

00:21:33.660 And try to figure that out the best I can because now there's no doubt there are segments of our society that want to destroy that very thing that you're bearing true faith and allegiance to, that Constitution that guarantees natural rights.

00:21:46.720 Or if you're a God-fearing person, rights from God, either way, natural or God-given, that inherent right to self-defense, the right to keep and bear arms, that is something that if you were just to appear here out of nowhere with no background, and all of a sudden you just appeared on earth and someone tried to kill you, it would be a very natural thing to defend that gift of life.

00:22:10.640 And as a husband, father, as a citizen, my responsibility is to defend that gift for me, for my family, for my community, and that's a very natural thing.

00:22:23.000 Yet there are elements of our society that want to remove that right enshrined in the Constitution.

00:22:29.360 Now the First Amendment, the First Amendment used to be something growing up in the 80s that we could all gather around.

00:22:34.460 We could say, hey, no matter what, I disagree with what you're saying, but I will die for your right to say it.

00:22:39.920 That was what made us Americans.

00:22:41.560 And now we're talking about limiting free speech.

00:22:44.880 We're shutting down free speech wherever we possibly can if it doesn't support a certain ideology.

00:22:49.840 It's a very interesting time in these next 10 years, especially as it pertains to the First Amendment, are going to be extremely telling.

00:22:58.180 You know what I'm asking you?

00:22:59.460 Here's what I'm asking you, because to have written all the books that you've written, you must have done a ton of research, right?

00:23:05.820 I mean, like you're talking about right now, you've got a deadline to hit, and sometimes you feel God created kids for you to miss deadlines, which I understand.

00:23:17.500 But when you do all this research, and we've got, what, 1776 until today.

00:23:22.180 That's our history, right?

00:23:23.220 It's not a lot.

00:23:23.880 It's 245, give or take, whatever.

00:23:25.760 We're about to be 246.

00:23:27.140 245 years of history.

00:23:29.620 How many times have we had it to the point in the last 245 years where the people that are becoming enemies, some of them are domestic, and they're your superiors?

00:23:39.180 And if we've had that in our history, how have we as the people won that fight, that battle?

00:23:46.180 That is the one thing that gives me hope.

00:23:49.000 And I try to be very hopeful in my outward projection, but internally, and when I sit down with my wife on the couch at the end of the day, and we have a glass of wine together and discuss things, I mean, sometimes that conversation is not as hopeful as what I project.

00:24:04.600 Well, one of the things that does give me hope is thinking back to that Civil War period and that post-Civil War period and what was done to try to bring the country together and how Grant did that.

00:24:16.880 Those parts of our history do give me hope because it was tough back then.

00:24:23.180 But today, we have this new thing, and this new thing is these social platforms, is everybody has this voice, and everyone can be manipulated also by these different platforms.

00:24:37.160 And it's just that part is what was missing back then.

00:24:40.520 I try to think, hey, what if we had social media back then?

00:24:44.140 What if you had an Instagram, a TikTok, a Facebook, a LinkedIn, you had YouTube, you had a couple companies controlling a lot of that information?

00:24:55.020 What would that Civil War period and post-Civil War period have looked like with that element?

00:25:00.420 And I don't know the answer to that, obviously, because they didn't exist back then.

00:25:04.000 But that's the outlier that is a lot different from other times in our history.

00:25:08.780 And that time that I'm talking about that gives me a little hope for going forward, well, they didn't have to deal with some of those things today.

00:25:15.200 These multinational-type corporations where the wealth is up there at the very top, and there's a lot of control involved in data and information.

00:25:25.740 It's not just about money anymore.

00:25:27.640 It's about data and information and controlling that information and using it to control a populace.

00:25:32.800 And there's no doubt that you can control how someone is thinking based off what you feed them on these channels.

00:25:40.100 So it's a different environment, and it's a scary environment for our kids to grow up in, I think, because it's completely uncharted territory.

00:25:47.640 And so I think about that quite a bit.

00:25:49.920 Well, I mean, would you say gaslighting is a new thing?

00:25:53.140 You think propagandas are a new thing?

00:25:55.160 They've been around for a while, right?

00:25:56.620 Both of them, gaslighting and propaganda.

00:25:58.400 It's not a new thing.

00:25:59.360 But what is the biggest difference with it today versus—we've had civil war before.

00:26:04.420 We've all read the story or seen the movie North and South, right?

00:26:08.140 You know, what happened?

00:26:09.040 Where, you know, we can go to history books and go through them.

00:26:13.900 But how much different is it versus today?

00:26:17.420 You'll have a debate with somebody, and they'll say, look, the way the government is set up, you know, our system is set up with judicial, executive, legislative, you know,

00:26:26.420 it is set up in such a way that you are protected.

00:26:28.480 This can't ever be lost.

00:26:29.920 This can't ever be—you don't even have to worry about an enemy domestically bringing America down.

00:26:35.700 Do you agree with that?

00:26:37.660 Well, up until about 20 years ago, you still had to operate in a way that was very similar how you would have to operate in, say, 1865, let's say,

00:26:45.740 meaning that if you wanted to control or manipulate, you would have to buy a journalist, you would have to blackmail a journalist, you would have to blackmail a politician, buy a politician in the traditional sense of actually purchasing these people or getting information on these people to use to blackmail them.

00:27:04.000 So, and a lot of companies did that.

00:27:07.880 Companies planted stories.

00:27:09.060 They paid reporters to do things.

00:27:10.360 Now, so those things still existed, that propaganda, that manipulation, all that still existed, but you didn't have as many tools to use.

00:27:19.840 And now you have so many different tools to use.

00:27:22.460 A lot of them are much more subliminal than sending someone outside of a reporter's house to catch him leaving with someone who wasn't his wife or whatever it might be to use as blackmail.

00:27:33.660 Now you have all this data that is—and every keystroke is—it's recorded.

00:27:39.680 I mean, there's a lot of data out there on all of us, and it's controlled by a very few people at the very top.

00:27:48.180 That's a lot of power.

00:27:49.220 That's a lot of power to have.

00:27:50.540 So that propaganda and manipulation, all that was around, but the tools were different back then.

00:27:55.820 And those tools that existed back then still do exist, but now there's a lot more out there to use.

00:28:00.960 So once again, it's adapting to that battle space.

00:28:03.900 As you're writing and your creative imagination is coming up with stories, what is your creative imagination thinking about to get somebody to flip?

00:28:11.300 Or let's just say a person for the longest time has been a law-abiding citizen, card-carrying, loving American, patriot, capitalist, constitution protector, and all of a sudden they flip.

00:28:23.100 But, you know, what is the strategy to get somebody to flip?

00:28:27.560 Is it shame?

00:28:28.360 Is it information on what they did against their wife that they don't want to be public because their legacy is going to be tainted?

00:28:35.080 Is it something that they—again, I'm asking purely from your creative side, what are some methods you would add to say,

00:28:43.060 here's a proud citizen that loves America, all of a sudden he starts giving in to China, all of a sudden he starts making, you know, certain compromises because there's something behind him?

00:28:53.080 What would your creative imagination say, here's five ways to get somebody to flip?

00:28:58.620 Yeah, so all those traditional ones still certainly exist.

00:29:02.700 There's just being more ways to get where you want to go with those.

00:29:08.140 But what's even more dangerous, I think, today is something—is a moral vanity where you don't even know that you have been, quote-unquote, flipped,

00:29:17.500 but that you are willing to destroy the bedrock of a nation that gave you all the options and opportunities.

00:29:23.140 All these—from the inception of this country up until today, all these people died to give you the freedom of choice,

00:29:30.300 to be able to make your own decisions, not have it dictated to you by a monarchy, by a federal government that was going to put you in a certain category.

00:29:40.660 No, you can break out wherever you appear on this planet in this country.

00:29:45.180 You have the option and opportunity to make your own decisions going forward to build the life you want, to make the life you want.

00:29:51.220 Now we have this moral vanity that has slipped in that allows us, and a lot of us, at these highest levels that have been afforded all this opportunity that allowed us to build great wealth.

00:30:04.240 And now we want to undermine that for the next generation coming up because of this moral vanity so that we can—maybe it's going to these cocktail parties so that you're on the same page as Good Morning America in the morning

00:30:22.240 or MSNBC in the evening or whoever you watch and you feel good about it because this peer group that is larger than it would have been in the past because of quote-unquote friends on social channels and followings and all the rest of it

00:30:38.280 make you—empower you to feel this moral vanity that makes you want to undercut exactly what allowed you to create the life that you wanted.

00:30:49.160 So it's an amazing thing, and psychologists are going to have a field day with it today and looking back on it because you're destroying the very foundation of the thing that allowed you to succeed.

00:31:00.600 Jack, you're a 20-year vet, a sniper, an enlisted sniper, Navy SEAL.

00:31:07.040 You've been all over. You've been deployed everywhere. You've written New York Times bestsellers.

00:31:10.680 You're a citizen that takes care of your family, father, married, and you have a lot of experiences.

00:31:16.780 At the same time, you know, the conversations you have with your wife at night, with your family, with your peers.

00:31:20.840 Now that you write these books, you're going to be in different circles, so you're having conversations that are high-level type of conversations.

00:31:26.420 Who do you trust the least today?

00:31:29.080 If you were to say who you trust the least today, who would that be, organization or individual?

00:31:35.740 Yeah, organization. And it's the military. I'm sorry, it's the media.

00:31:43.300 But it's interesting that we're walking in to this big tech and this media big government L ambush.

00:31:50.880 So you'll remember from your days the L ambush.

00:31:52.880 And it means that you're walking here in the middle, and you have enemy here and here.

00:31:56.640 So if they fire, they get you. They don't hit each other.

00:31:59.700 So that's what we have. We have big tech, big government.

00:32:01.900 But we've lost so much trust in these institutions that we all used to trust as citizens.

00:32:08.160 And that journalists, the media, we used to trust them.

00:32:12.580 When you'd see the New York Times coming in, let's say, 1975, or you see the Washington Post in the time frame, 85, 84, 86.

00:32:21.380 You trusted them. And today you think, I'm going to be being manipulated by these same organizations.

00:32:29.480 They have an agenda. They are supporting a certain party.

00:32:33.280 They are supporting a certain ideology.

00:32:35.440 They are undermining another ideology.

00:32:38.280 They are undermining the exact amendment, that First Amendment, that allows them to do what they do.

00:32:44.000 You have journalists. You have other authors.

00:32:45.920 You have people in that space calling for more restrictions on the First Amendment, which to me is, I mean, I can't believe it.

00:32:54.840 As a kid that grew up before, that became now acceptable.

00:33:00.540 And then that part is just disheartening to me as a citizen.

00:33:04.040 So if I was to pick one, it's an institution. It's not a person. It's the media.

00:33:07.380 It's something we used to trust.

00:33:08.680 And so you have that legacy trust, especially from older people.

00:33:11.800 But today, it's...

00:33:13.440 How about we play a game?

00:33:14.660 Let's play a game.

00:33:15.420 I like playing games, and maybe we can play a game together.

00:33:19.060 I'll give you an organization, and you tell me 0 to 10 what your trust score would be.

00:33:25.560 Instead of doing a speed round, we're going to do an organization, and you tell us what you're...

00:33:30.220 Are you a sports guy or no?

00:33:31.820 I'm not. I am not.

00:33:33.460 My sports is international relations, I guess, and staying up to date with things like that.

00:33:39.180 I love it.

00:33:39.840 So that's going to be perfect, because none of this is sports.

00:33:42.120 So this is fantastic.

00:33:43.060 Perfect. Wonderful.

00:33:43.380 All right. So let's start. 0 to 10.

00:33:45.900 Do you trust the general of Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines that they have the best interest for America?

00:33:53.420 0 to 10.

00:33:54.620 I'm going to put that at a 6 or 7.

00:33:56.900 Okay, cool.

00:33:57.900 All right.

00:33:58.360 How about mainstream media?

00:33:59.760 Zero.

00:34:00.940 No shit. Okay.

00:34:02.540 How about President of the United States?

00:34:07.380 That's a tough one, because it's fairly obvious we're dealing with something that we haven't really dealt with before, which is cognitive decline in a head of state in this country.

00:34:18.960 So I'm going to go ahead and put that at a 2 or 3.

00:34:24.020 Okay.

00:34:24.420 How about China?

00:34:26.220 At 2 or 3.

00:34:27.280 It only gets 2 or 3, because I still have a little bit of hope left in me.

00:34:31.000 I hope to be a positive-looking person.

00:34:34.040 That's the only reason it gets that.

00:34:35.220 What an optimistic guy you are, man.

00:34:36.900 That was just fantastic.

00:34:38.480 How about China?

00:34:39.220 0 to 10?

00:34:40.780 Zero.

00:34:41.500 Okay.

00:34:41.980 How about the major virtual governments?

00:34:45.320 I'm talking Twitter.

00:34:46.260 Today, Dorsey resigned, and the new guy took over.

00:34:50.320 He's going to also get off the board himself.

00:34:52.740 How about trusting virtual governments?

00:34:54.420 Facebook, YouTube, Google, Twitter, all those guys?

00:34:57.180 I'm going to say a 1, and the only reason I give it a 1 is because they had potential.

00:35:02.680 They had potential to have that sort of trust that we had in established media back 50 years

00:35:11.040 ago, 100 years ago, but it doesn't exist anymore.

00:35:14.500 Do you think they can still change?

00:35:15.580 Do you think it can change?

00:35:16.880 I think it's too big of a machine.

00:35:18.500 Okay.

00:35:19.240 Okay.

00:35:19.680 How about the top 10 richest men and women in America?

00:35:23.460 I'm talking Bezos, you talk Elon Musk, all those guys.

00:35:27.920 Top 10.

00:35:28.960 Do you trust them?

00:35:29.640 I'd have to look at the list because it does shift, so I'm going to go with a 5 there because

00:35:34.880 I know some of those guys in that top 10 list, and I trust them implicitly, but some

00:35:42.540 of the others, and some of the ones that I don't know that I've just met in passing

00:35:46.960 that I don't.

00:35:50.400 Yeah, so I'm going to give it a 5 just because that list does change.

00:35:53.820 How about the 1?

00:35:54.400 A lot of those people are self-made.

00:35:55.580 I mean, you look at some of these, and that's what people I was talking about earlier.

00:35:59.900 They get up to this point.

00:36:00.780 So how about if I give specifics?

00:36:02.180 Bezos, Musk, Buffett, Gates, and let's stay at that.

00:36:07.680 Those four names.

00:36:08.680 Yeah.

00:36:09.180 Musk and Buffett on the positive side.

00:36:12.620 The other two probably on the other.

00:36:14.140 Okay.

00:36:14.640 Fair enough.

00:36:14.700 So it still puts me at a 5.

00:36:16.440 It still puts me at 50-50.

00:36:17.800 Jack, how about the wonderful journalists that we have in America?

00:36:22.140 Yeah, there are so few actual journalists.

00:36:24.720 You have to really seek out people that are doing that job, like Glenn Greenwald, or you

00:36:30.680 have to seek out those people that are after the truth no matter where it falls without

00:36:36.440 trying to manipulate that data or write things in a certain way so that it supports their

00:36:41.660 ideology and their personal agenda.

00:36:43.460 So you really have to do the homework on quote-unquote journalists because there are so few these days

00:36:50.340 that are doing it in the tradition that we think of as journalists in this country, going

00:36:55.420 out after the truth, exposing the truth, holding leaders' feet to the fire, exposing corruption,

00:37:03.400 speaking truth to power.

00:37:04.200 Those things are in short supply these days.

00:37:07.000 How about a Fauci?

00:37:10.180 I just can't.

00:37:11.460 Yeah, let's just put that at a one because of the hope factor.

00:37:17.840 Did you see him on Face the Nation today?

00:37:20.040 Did you see him on?

00:37:21.220 I didn't.

00:37:21.560 I saw a couple of the headlines, but I did not dive in yet.

00:37:25.200 I mean, if you want to have a motivating day about 2022, watch it.

00:37:28.200 It'll inspire you.

00:37:29.220 It's a very...

00:37:29.920 Oh, really?

00:37:30.600 It's a very sarcastically, very optimistic.

00:37:33.180 It's the direction I'm going with it.

00:37:36.600 Oh, man.

00:37:37.080 Yeah, you know, it's...

00:37:39.240 I've never seen him this arrogant in an interview than the one I saw today.

00:37:45.060 It was a little bit weird on how it was.

00:37:47.480 You know, typically, he takes a very neutral position, and he'll still go...

00:37:53.920 You know, you will know what side he leans towards.

00:37:56.220 But today was, if you don't...

00:38:00.060 If these politicians question somebody like me who's a scientist, I'm the guy that represents science, and we know what we're doing, and here's what we're going to be doing.

00:38:07.880 And it was just very concerning on the way he took the approach, you know, on the angle he took.

00:38:13.900 Question for you from the data side.

00:38:15.660 So, you know how we've all seen the data when China puts out the data, and they say, our unemployment rate in China right now is 2%.

00:38:23.260 We're like, wow, what an amazing and noble job they're doing to keep the unemployment only at 2%, right?

00:38:29.680 And I feel bad for the people that believe that it's only 2%, with 1.5 billion people living there and some of the stuff that leaks out sometimes.

00:38:38.960 When it comes down to data in America, and the data that's put out to us, how much of the data do you trust, and who do you trust it from?

00:38:49.560 Like, you know, for example, the reason why I'm asking this question from you is, if you and I were to go buy a house today, and you want to buy a million-dollar house, whatever.

00:39:01.780 You want to put $200,000 down, the bank is going to say, yeah, no problem, let's run a credit score, okay?

00:39:08.200 And they go to Experian, you know, TransUnion, Equifax, your score comes up, 728, 745, 738, you're fine, you've had one late in the last three years, and you fixed it because it was a car payment, you had a wrong checking account, you're good, we'll finance you for this million dollars, 20%, now you're good to go.

00:39:25.340 Great.

00:39:26.180 So, they have a source to go to verify your credibility, right?

00:39:29.600 Where do we go to verify the credibility of the people that are giving us the data?

00:39:34.420 That's it, we can't.

00:39:35.500 That's why we don't have this trust.

00:39:38.180 This trust has been eroded so much between big tech and the citizen, between big government and the citizen.

00:39:45.900 And each opportunity that both big tech, big government, media has to build some trust, they do the opposite.

00:39:53.540 They continue to use their platforms, their data to support a certain ideology that marginalizes almost half the country and continues to divide the country, which does what?

00:40:05.680 Well, it galvanizes bases for politicians, it gets more clicks on things for social media, it gets more advertisers in front, but, you know, that's just the base level.

00:40:14.220 That's just the base level stuff, that's fine, that makes them extremely wealthy.

00:40:18.720 But what it really does is give them data and gives them information on how to manipulate in the future, not just to make you buy a set of steak knives, but to get you to vote a certain way, to get you to think a certain way.

00:40:35.320 That is where we have lost all this trust, and that's really the power that these tech giants have.

00:40:41.300 And going back to that, let's go back to the military part real quick, because I don't want to say six or seven trusts in the military.

00:40:46.020 And when we look at that exit from Afghanistan, though, that we had 20 years to prepare for that moment, 20 years, we had 20 years of our own experience, we could have gone back to the Soviet experience, their 10 years from 79 to 89, we could have gone back to three British incursions in the 1800s and early 1900s.

00:41:07.780 We didn't have to go back to Alexander the Great, we didn't have to go back to Genghis Khan, we had our own, we could have just took any one of those years that we have been in Afghanistan.

00:41:15.560 Let's say from March of 2002, let's say, let's give us a few months where we had a culminating point of victory in those early days that we went past a culminating point of victory and turned that success into failure.

00:41:27.200 So we had all those years to prepare and we rushed to failure, we ran to failure, and we have civilian control of the military, but we also have a military that had 20 years to prepare for this as well, for these contingencies.

00:41:43.660 And it didn't come as a shock to me or to most people that I know that it ended the way it did.

00:41:50.740 So that's that trust in military, that took a hit right there.

00:41:54.600 You have a company that has 20 years to prepare for something, they know it's coming, they know exactly what's happening, and they screw it up that bad.

00:42:02.360 They couldn't have done it worse, and they've been actively trying to do it, the worst job that they possibly could.

00:42:08.000 So I'm lowering my score for military, I'm going back to three or four.

00:42:11.320 How much of that responsibility goes on the leaders of the different branches that we have versus the president?

00:42:17.520 I mean, we know Commander-in-Chief is President Biden, that's who it is today, right?

00:42:21.360 That's who the Commander-in-Chief is.

00:42:22.600 But how much of it is the general, the Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force saying, no, no, no, guys, we can't do this.

00:42:29.240 This is not the right approach.

00:42:31.180 And the meeting, you know, where, because you're in meetings where sometimes maybe you're reporting to somebody that's above you, you're superior, and you've got to say, boss, I'm telling you, we have to take a different route.

00:42:41.580 This is not going to work out well for us.

00:42:43.420 Let's reconsider this.

00:42:44.860 How much of it is them not giving enough pushback rather than just saying, okay, let's just go ahead and do this, costing us $83 billion of equipment we left behind to the Taliban?

00:42:52.380 Oh, yeah, it's a lot.

00:42:55.080 I mean, it's easy for the military to say politicians lost the war.

00:42:58.940 You know, it's a very common thing to say in Vietnam after Vietnam.

00:43:03.140 But we can see general after general after general going in front of Congress from 2001 all the way up to just a few months ago saying the exact same things.

00:43:14.400 We are making progress.

00:43:15.820 Just need a little more time, a little more funding, more troops.

00:43:19.560 And that's not a president telling them to say that.

00:43:21.740 That is them going in front of Congress and giving their honest, quote-unquote, honest assessment to congressional leadership and to the American people and by default to their troops who are watching them give these speeches and give this testimony.

00:43:34.200 And you can pick out any time, 2004, 2008, 2012.

00:43:38.520 You can pick out.

00:43:39.200 It sounds exactly the same.

00:43:40.720 They all sound, they say the exact same thing.

00:43:43.760 And you can go back and pick out how many times they said we are making progress.

00:43:47.960 I just need more troops, more funding, more resources.

00:43:50.760 They all said that.

00:43:52.540 And the one guy who didn't, and I don't want to say his name because I'm going to mess it up, but it was like 2009, let's say.

00:43:58.740 But it was somewhere right in the middle.

00:44:00.000 And he's the one guy who raised some questions.

00:44:02.040 Well, guess what?

00:44:02.820 He was replaced a few months later, and that hadn't happened since MacArthur in Korea.

00:44:08.680 And he did that because he raised concerns about how much progress we were actually making, and that's what happens.

00:44:15.940 And that sent a message to the rest of our flag-level officers.

00:44:19.060 Hey, this is what happens when you tell the truth.

00:44:20.820 This is what happens when you give your actual honest assessment.

00:44:23.380 You're not around much longer, and off you go to pastor.

00:44:26.300 So that was probably one of the most devastating things that happened over the last 20 years is for senior-level leaders to see what happened to the one person who said the truth, and he got fired.

00:44:35.320 Yeah, but I think even with that, man, I think if 20 people get fired, no one got fired.

00:44:43.160 You know what I'm saying?

00:44:43.940 If one person got fired, yeah, one person got fired.

00:44:46.520 But if 50 people get fired, America cannot afford to have 50 people to fire.

00:44:50.920 I don't know if that makes sense or not.

00:44:52.320 So, you know, you're running a company, and, you know, you got, your name is Ford, and 50% of your employees come to you and they say, look, we can't work 66 hours a week in these kind of conditions.

00:45:06.900 You've got to give us a retirement plan.

00:45:08.180 You've got to give us health insurance.

00:45:09.760 You've got to give us a bit of a raise.

00:45:11.240 This is just not going to work out, right?

00:45:12.680 Ford can't say, ah, whatever, guys, go ahead.

00:45:15.300 We're going to keep doing it.

00:45:16.000 No, you can't afford to do that, right?

00:45:18.100 But if one person does that and two people do that, a small percentage complain, fine.

00:45:22.000 You're always going to have that, and you're never going to please everybody.

00:45:25.180 I think if more people would have stood up, the hell are you going to say if the four people, if the four generals, the Army, Marines, Air Force, Navy is all on the same page saying, president, this is a terrible idea.

00:45:36.820 We're not doing this.

00:45:37.520 It's just a terrible idea.

00:45:40.100 Who are you going to fire, all four of them?

00:45:41.640 I mean, that's just a catastrophic situation there.

00:45:44.320 Anyways, you question the backbone.

00:45:48.240 And again, look, I'm not in that position for me to put all the responsibility on them.

00:45:51.680 I don't know where it is to put the responsibility on them.

00:45:53.980 I know what it is to have lived in Iran for 10 years and a decision Carter made on the human rights hoping to help out Iran with the 3,000 political prisoners under the Shah or the political refugees or the Muriel Bolt lift in Cuba.

00:46:09.720 Next thing you know, it backfired on America, and it backfired on Iran, and we know what happened with Iraq.

00:46:15.400 Half a million people got killed because of a bad decision.

00:46:17.500 We don't yet know the repercussions of the decisions that we made.

00:46:20.620 We may not even see the side effects of this for the next five to 10 years.

00:46:23.140 That's why I wonder, like, how do you not just look at your leader and say, this is a bad idea.

00:46:31.480 We're going to be united on this against you.

00:46:33.380 I don't know.

00:46:34.960 You ever been in a meeting yourself where your leader told you what to do and you guys, your peers, sat there and say, this is a bad idea.

00:46:41.860 I'm not asking for names.

00:46:43.120 You ever had, how many instances like that did you have to tell the person you report to, this is not a good idea?

00:46:47.780 Usually, they're coming down from above that person and they're parroting something that comes above and even higher.

00:46:53.260 I was at such a low tactical level, so I didn't have those sort of strategic level meetings.

00:46:59.720 So, they were more like, why is this person just parroting what has been, this person is useless.

00:47:05.440 They're just saying what's coming down the pike here.

00:47:07.740 I didn't need them to sit in that seat and just parrot.

00:47:10.280 What we need to do is figure out how to make this work, make this new policy, this new directive, this new guidance, whatever it might be.

00:47:17.120 Now, we have to do the on-the-ground, boots-on-the-ground problem solvers, aggressive problem solvers, and maybe turn a good idea around and make it work for us.

00:47:27.180 And then be able to explain it to the guys that are going to be even one level below us in a way that makes sense.

00:47:34.380 Because if you lose that trust, if you just parrot what comes down the pike, the E5 on the couch, waiting in the platoon space, he noticed.

00:47:43.920 They know.

00:47:44.820 And you lose that trust.

00:47:46.460 And everything you do in the military or in life, I think, is an opportunity to build trust, both up and down the chain of command, side to side with your peers.

00:47:54.060 And you have to take advantage of it.

00:47:55.480 And what we're doing in this country right now is we're losing trust at every opportunity, it seems, which is, once again, just disheartening.

00:48:03.480 What percentage of the guys that executed the plan on leaving Afghanistan knew was a bad idea?

00:48:12.620 What would you say?

00:48:13.220 If you were to guess, it's an odds game.

00:48:14.740 I'm not telling you, you know the answer.

00:48:16.560 What would you say?

00:48:17.060 The percentage of the leaders that executed what was told, what they were ordered to do, knew it was a bad idea?

00:48:23.760 I would have to say 99% or 100% almost.

00:48:27.480 I agree with you.

00:48:28.440 I agree with you.

00:48:29.260 So can't the 99% say, guys, what are we doing?

00:48:33.800 You know what I'm saying?

00:48:34.240 This shit's not going to work.

00:48:36.400 That's what we trust them to do.

00:48:37.740 When you're looking up that chain of command, that's their responsibility.

00:48:41.140 If we mess up down here at the tactical level, we're going to be held accountable, for sure.

00:48:45.180 If you make a mistake up here, no accountability.

00:48:47.300 You retire, you go sit on the boards of one of these companies that has defense industry type of ties.

00:48:52.340 North of Grumman, Raytheon.

00:48:54.040 Exactly.

00:48:54.800 So to see them not stand up to that plan.

00:48:59.060 And why it's so frustrating to everyone is because, once again, Karl von Kloshwitz wrote on war.

00:49:03.660 He said that the most important attribute of a leader, of a military leader, is common sense.

00:49:09.560 That's why the person with zero military experience has never read a book on the military,

00:49:13.180 can look at Afghanistan and just take five minutes and look at it and see what a bad idea it is to give up Bagram.

00:49:20.360 Why give up a tactically advantageous position and put your troops in a tactically disadvantageous position?

00:49:26.540 That doesn't make sense.

00:49:27.800 Oh, great.

00:49:28.400 You know why?

00:49:28.800 Because that person who has never had any military experience or read a book on strategy or international relations or tactics

00:49:34.360 can look at it with that eye, with that common sense and say, this does not make sense.

00:49:40.100 And yet, our senior military leaders stood by and did almost nothing from the outside looking at it.

00:49:48.680 I'm not in there anymore, obviously.

00:49:50.480 But that's what it looks like from the outside.

00:49:53.280 And what we saw happen at Abbey Gate when we saw all those deaths and a lot more people that are wounded that we don't even hear about, that's the result.

00:50:03.660 Jack, I got two other questions for you before we wrap up.

00:50:05.760 One of them is, you know, when you're, like I interviewed the former director of Mossad.

00:50:14.760 Him and I were sitting down, I think Shabbat was his name.

00:50:17.640 I'm trying to see what his name was.

00:50:18.960 Really interesting guy.

00:50:19.840 We had a conversation together.

00:50:21.680 And I said, hey, you know, you guys haven't been around that long.

00:50:25.060 Who trained you?

00:50:26.200 He says, nobody trained us.

00:50:27.600 I said, okay.

00:50:28.560 Who did you train?

00:50:30.140 Well, we trained some of our enemies, but we don't train them on everything.

00:50:33.380 I said, okay, but when I was in Iran, you would hear about Savaq, and they would say, who trained Savaq?

00:50:39.680 Well, the CIA trained Savaq.

00:50:41.120 Who else trained Savaq?

00:50:42.420 MI6 trained Savaq.

00:50:43.980 Okay, cool.

00:50:45.940 And then you go and see China.

00:50:48.840 China's intelligence right now is maybe the best, and no one's even recognizing them.

00:50:54.280 You know, they're top two, top three, but nobody knows how they're training themselves, right?

00:50:58.720 So, the question I would have for you is, when it comes down to us training our allies, what is the protocol that we follow in training our allies where you don't train them too much to know everything?

00:51:12.480 You know that one day they won't flip on you, like what's been happening lately with some countries that used to be allies, now they're enemies.

00:51:19.860 That's right.

00:51:20.460 Even before September 11th, this was a conversation that we had because we did JSTATs.

00:51:25.140 We did training exercises around the world with partner nations, with host nation forces, and we always say, hey, let's be a little bit careful.

00:51:31.680 This is us.

00:51:32.160 This is the E4s, E5s, E6s, Chiefs.

00:51:35.560 These are the people here that are on the ground doing it.

00:51:38.180 That's not coming from above.

00:51:39.280 It's not saying, hey, make sure you don't teach this, this, this, or this.

00:51:41.920 It's us on the ground having that common sense, again, saying, eh, but it's tough also when you're doing combat foreign internal defense, meaning you're going out there into the streets of Ramadi with a partner force.

00:51:54.800 Or you're in Afghanistan, you're training up a partner force, and you're going out and executing these missions.

00:51:59.640 Because your life, the lives of your guys to the right and left, they're right there and depending on this host nation force.

00:52:07.120 So you do want them to be as trained up as they possibly can be.

00:52:10.940 But now look what's happened.

00:52:12.120 All that training, all that, because in Afghanistan, as I'm sure you know, it's a very natural thing to change sides.

00:52:20.120 Why not go to the strongest warlord side?

00:52:22.480 That makes sense.

00:52:23.360 If not, guess what's happening to me and my family?

00:52:25.220 We're going to get skinned alive and hung from this tree.

00:52:27.880 So we're going to go over to that side.

00:52:30.440 So it's a very natural thing.

00:52:31.680 Loyalty is a little bit different over there.

00:52:34.140 So now they have all these weapons, all this technology, all this training.

00:52:39.340 And for even people that fought on our side, some are now on the other side because that makes sense now.

00:52:44.680 That keeps them and their families alive.

00:52:46.360 That's the tactical choice that they're making.

00:52:49.400 And it's part of the culture.

00:52:51.040 And that's something we didn't really understand going in.

00:52:53.140 We totally failed to understand the nature of the conflict to which we were committing forces.

00:52:56.880 We had this imperial hubris that's allowed us to go in and say, hey, we're the United States of America.

00:53:02.680 We had initial successes.

00:53:04.240 And then we thought, oh, we got this.

00:53:05.640 Let's shift focus to Iraq.

00:53:07.920 Osama bin Laden escapes into Pakistan.

00:53:10.100 We start nation building.

00:53:11.540 Anyway, you could point to all these different missteps from that point on.

00:53:16.720 But from December 2001, we handled that situation fairly poorly.

00:53:20.860 But our senior level leaders, it's their responsibility to understand the nature of the conflict to which they're engaging, committing U.S. forces.

00:53:28.760 And they failed to do that.

00:53:30.340 And they had 20 years to learn.

00:53:32.300 And they failed over that entire 20-year period.

00:53:35.960 So, yeah, I do look at them with a critical eye.

00:53:41.360 But I guess the good part today is that it gives me a lot of material to work with in the novels.

00:53:46.660 Yeah, that's a part of it where I sometimes wonder.

00:53:50.960 I'm like, I understand training your own self with people that are going to be with us long term where you're, again, domestic or, you know, foreign or domestic.

00:54:00.340 You know, you want to train the people that are here, but sometimes we're, Phil, we're building our enemies even bigger.

00:54:05.320 We're experiencing that with China right now.

00:54:06.660 Everything we do with capitalism, China duplicated.

00:54:08.520 Now, China's, everybody's relying so much on China with the chips, with everything that they're doing, that we have no choice.

00:54:14.300 We strengthen our enemy.

00:54:16.460 Now they're bullying us, and we are the leaders of the free world.

00:54:19.440 It's a little bit of a weird situation there.

00:54:21.540 But last question here.

00:54:22.720 I had Mike Ritland on.

00:54:24.120 Mike Ritland, I'm sure you know who Mike Ritland is.

00:54:26.800 He was on with us on the podcast.

00:54:28.440 We had a great time.

00:54:29.140 And a conversation came about during that time they were talking about women in Navy SEAL.

00:54:34.920 He gave his opinion on women on Navy SEAL.

00:54:37.960 And, but recently, I don't know if you saw Bill Maher on Chris Cuomo and a conversation about transgender came out.

00:54:43.840 If you've not seen it, I highly recommend, you know, you go watch it, Jack.

00:54:47.000 It's absolutely, by the way, you're not going to find it on CNN's YouTube channel.

00:54:50.060 You've got to find it on somebody else's YouTube channel.

00:54:51.720 I'll text it to you afterwards, like 34 minutes.

00:54:53.560 Oh, great.

00:54:53.980 I have the link.

00:54:54.480 It's a must watch.

00:54:55.220 He made a very good argument to him.

00:54:56.400 But what do you say to Navy SEAL that's now, you know, somebody came out a couple of years ago talking about the fact that they're transgender, former Navy SEAL.

00:55:06.180 I don't know if you saw that story or not, if you followed it.

00:55:10.180 Kristen Beck, I think it's the name of the individual that now is transgender.

00:55:14.180 Do you think, how do you think the SEAL, cream of the crop at that level, special ops type of guys, Delta, you know, Navy SEAL, how do you think they should treat training women as well as transgender in regards to their units?

00:55:30.860 Well, the women one I thought a lot more about than the transgender one, because it's a transgender one.

00:55:36.880 I'm just not quite sure what means what and how we, anyway, I'm not, I'm not quite prepared to think that through from, because women coming in wanting to be men, men coming in wanting to be women.

00:55:47.420 I've just, there's a lot to unpack there.

00:55:49.020 But when it comes to females in combat ground forces, particularly special operations, so they've been on the front lines with us from the beginning of the war on, so they've been right there.

00:56:00.180 They haven't been entering rooms and getting shot in the face, that sort of a thing, but they've been right there with us in these supporting roles, and supporting roles sounds, you know, like, it's not the right word, because they are right there.

00:56:11.380 And for me, like, I grew up, as a lot of people did, opening doors, you're taught to open a door for a female, you're taught to stand up, offer your seat to a lady that gets on a bus or a train or something like that, stand up when a woman enters the room, treat them with disrespect.

00:56:29.520 But almost, you know, you're putting them on this, it's disrespect and putting them on this pedestal type thing.

00:56:36.720 So, for me, there's no possible way that as a combat leader, I would be able to treat a female exactly the same as I would one of the guys.

00:56:45.680 I just, it's not, I'm not programmed that way.

00:56:47.960 For whatever reason, I'm programmed to protect females.

00:56:50.620 That's how I was raised, and that's in my DNA.

00:56:52.900 I don't think I need to be raised that way.

00:56:54.140 I think it's just innate in us as humans to protect those who are going to carry on and make sure that our bloodlines and our species continue to move forward after we're dead.

00:57:05.480 And that's why we go forward and get cut up and killed in combat all the time, protecting them.

00:57:11.720 So, for me, it would be very difficult to treat them exactly the same way as I would a guy who's a dude.

00:57:20.220 That's just how it is.

00:57:21.240 Now, the other side of that is, you know, you have daughters and you want them to have the same opportunities and freedoms that their male counterparts have.

00:57:29.980 So, there is definitely a discongruence there in that line of thought.

00:57:36.100 But, once again, it's just very natural to protect the females and the species, whether they want it to be or not.

00:57:42.540 You know, that's, sorry.

00:57:45.120 And so, I'm glad I got out before that became something I had to deal with.

00:57:47.700 Once again, I can deal with that in the pages of the novels because maybe this next generation isn't going to be.

00:57:52.000 Maybe it's going to be like Starship Troopers and they're going to treat each other just the same.

00:57:55.360 It doesn't matter if you're a female or you're a male.

00:57:57.680 You're running into those machine gun bullets just the same.

00:58:02.480 It doesn't matter.

00:58:03.840 Maybe we're getting to that point.

00:58:05.320 And is that a good thing?

00:58:06.540 I don't know.

00:58:07.160 You might want to protect that person that's going to make sure that the bloodline continues.

00:58:10.020 We have for most of human history.

00:58:13.160 And for most of human history, you had to be good at a couple of things.

00:58:16.160 You had to be a good hunter and you had to be a good fighter.

00:58:19.020 And only very, very recently have we been able to outsource both of those things by calling 911 and going down to the local grocery store to get food.

00:58:28.500 That is the smallest portion of human history.

00:58:30.780 So I think in all of us, there is that natural tendency to still be a protector, to still be a provider.

00:58:37.820 I think it's in there.

00:58:39.060 It's getting bred out of us, though, by once again, by every single input that we have.

00:58:44.440 Almost, almost every single input that we have from big tech, big government, big media, legacy media.

00:58:50.740 They're all preaching something different.

00:58:53.460 And, hey, I don't know if the lights go out tomorrow and all of a sudden we're back to what we've been for most of human history, having to be good at those things.

00:58:59.900 Maybe that dynamic changes a little bit.

00:59:01.600 Maybe we're not so concerned about equality of equity and outcomes and all those sorts of things that are really just undermining the very foundations of this country.

00:59:13.580 So, you know, we'll see.

00:59:15.800 You know, I ask that question because, you know, a part of me, it's like, OK, one, are there a lot of women that want to be Navy SEALs?

00:59:26.700 Because if there is, well, great.

00:59:28.460 That's fantastic.

00:59:29.400 That's one question.

00:59:30.560 Second thing, is the media try to, you know, pin them against each other?

00:59:35.740 Like, I don't know if you saw an article that came out from Variety yesterday and about gamers.

00:59:41.620 Did you see that article yesterday about gamers or no?

00:59:45.500 Where, you know, the top 300 gamers tournaments that's going on right now, not a single one of them is women.

00:59:52.840 Why is that?

00:59:53.640 Why is it such a sexist space that gamers are not women?

00:59:59.020 Now, that's a little bit of a weird article to do.

01:00:03.180 So the question I would ask is, how many women want to be gamers?

01:00:07.580 Do you want to be a gamer?

01:00:08.860 Do you want to be in that space?

01:00:10.240 If you do, great.

01:00:11.660 Do you really want to sit there playing 10 hours of video games to compete there?

01:00:15.600 Fantastic.

01:00:16.080 If that's your world, go do it.

01:00:17.220 So Navy SEAL, do you want to go be a Navy SEAL?

01:00:19.780 Yes, I do.

01:00:20.500 Great.

01:00:20.740 So if that's the case, does it work?

01:00:23.880 Does it make the environment uncomfortable?

01:00:25.980 Are guys not going to be acting like themselves?

01:00:28.160 Because, you know, when guys are with guys, you tell us certain jokes the moment you put somebody else there.

01:00:31.880 Maybe you get uncomfortable, you know.

01:00:35.520 And then the other part is, I got friends that are more metro and what do you call it?

01:00:43.220 They have more estrogen than testosterone.

01:00:44.860 And I have female friends that have more testosterone than estrogen.

01:00:47.340 You ever met some of your friends where you're like, oh my gosh, you dude, you know, you're one chromosome away from being Mary, you know.

01:00:55.200 And then you have a friend that they're one chromosome away from being, you know, Bobby, you know, where it's like the level of toughness.

01:01:02.520 Like Ronda Rousey can probably whoop 90% of guys' asses if she fights him.

01:01:06.760 What if she wants to be a Navy SEAL?

01:01:08.820 Would it be good for her to be a Navy SEAL?

01:01:11.100 I don't know.

01:01:12.240 So I wonder how much of it is mainstream media just needs another story to pin people against each other.

01:01:16.280 So we talk about it versus how much of it is actual demand for women wanting to be Navy SEALs.

01:01:21.740 Yeah, I always go back to, hey, does it make us a more effective, no matter what it is, it doesn't have to be women wanting to be SEALs.

01:01:27.040 It can be, it can be anything.

01:01:29.220 And, hey, does this make us a more effective and efficient fighting force?

01:01:32.520 And if the answer is no, then don't do it, military.

01:01:37.420 Focus on winning wars.

01:01:39.020 Focus on being prepared for war.

01:01:41.180 That is why you exist.

01:01:42.860 That's why you get these insane budgets.

01:01:46.760 And so that's the question.

01:01:48.860 So for me, it doesn't really come down to a quality and equity and making sure everybody, but no, it comes down to does this make us a more effective and efficient fighting force?

01:02:01.940 And for me, you know, but it is me.

01:02:05.860 Maybe it's just maybe I'm the I'm the Neanderthal and and and yeah, and maybe maybe having a female in the platoon space is a good thing for all the guys in there.

01:02:17.380 I don't know.

01:02:18.060 I've seen what happens when a female walks into a tactical operations center overseas.

01:02:23.100 It changes the dynamic and not in a good way.

01:02:26.680 And it's a sad it's I hate to say that, but it's the truth.

01:02:29.620 And today you can't really, you know, you tell the truth, you get you get you get shot down.

01:02:34.340 You get canceled.

01:02:35.600 But I mean, it does change the dynamic.

01:02:38.160 Guys are guys.

01:02:39.200 You know, it totally changes the dynamic.

01:02:42.060 I mean, you know, I interviewed a lot of comedians.

01:02:47.760 And the one thing I can tell you about comedians is most comedians, I'm not saying all of them, but most comedians lived a very tough life.

01:02:56.280 They had a dad who has a temper, used to drink, hit him or mom left or some shitty situation that they had, right, where they become comedians.

01:03:05.520 So why?

01:03:06.160 Because, you know, their savior was laughing at stuff, right?

01:03:09.660 So, dude, the only way I can my medicine is let me make people laugh.

01:03:13.040 Let me make myself laugh because I have to go home and see my dad beat my mom up or my dad beat me up and my brother up.

01:03:18.580 And I just it's my only way to release.

01:03:20.380 Right.

01:03:20.640 It's a very common trend with many comedians.

01:03:23.800 Military.

01:03:24.200 You know, when you're in that kind of a pressure type of an environment, I mean, sarcasm, jokes, laughter, shots, you know, not shots like shots like taking shots at each other, condescending, witty.

01:03:37.060 It almost seemed like that was the medicine to overcome the whatever situation you're in.

01:03:44.460 And it's tough to explain.

01:03:46.260 You explain it to a regular person.

01:03:47.940 They'll say, well, that's not the right way to deal with people.

01:03:52.760 And that's just not how you're supposed to treat people.

01:03:55.520 And Michael Jordan said in his documentary, The Last Dance, there's a scene in The Last Dance where he says, I remember when I was a kid and my brother, I think his name is Adrian.

01:04:03.400 We're playing basketball.

01:04:04.660 And he says, Michael, you just go out there.

01:04:06.220 You're like a kid.

01:04:06.800 You don't know what you're doing.

01:04:07.600 Let us men here go build something.

01:04:09.760 And Jordan explains.

01:04:10.800 He says, when I'm going, he says, you know, when you're going through it, it's so hard because you're questioning yourself as a manhood.

01:04:16.120 He says, but that's exactly what made me tough to be able to go and compete the way I did in the military.

01:04:20.840 You can't describe that to the average person that's living in a regular La La Land versus what it is in the military.

01:04:26.360 But again, look, like you said, maybe we are Neanderthals.

01:04:29.500 You know, you from Utah, me Middle Eastern from Florida.

01:04:32.980 I don't know.

01:04:33.360 I don't know.

01:04:34.000 I don't know what's going to happen.

01:04:34.720 Anyways, Jack, I really enjoyed this.

01:04:36.980 What we're going to do is we're going to put the link below to all your books, folks.

01:04:41.580 Every one of his books has over 7,000 reviews.

01:04:44.180 So you pick and choose which one you want to do.

01:04:45.880 The number one bestseller was Devil's Hand.

01:04:48.200 We'll put the link below for you guys to go pick it up.

01:04:50.960 And looking forward to seeing your next book coming up.

01:04:53.280 Jack, with that being said, appreciate you for making the time for being a guest on Valuetainment.

01:04:56.860 Oh, man.

01:04:58.120 Thank you so much for having me on.

01:04:59.180 And there's one thing that we talked about earlier that kind of feeds in.

01:05:02.120 And I heard Larry Ellison talk about it in our interview.

01:05:04.520 And I've been very fortunate to spend some time with him.

01:05:07.020 And he said, I had all the disadvantages necessary for success.

01:05:12.380 And I love that because you have so many people complaining, especially children.

01:05:17.100 Everybody that has children will know.

01:05:18.560 You kids complain about a lot of things.

01:05:20.140 But to say that, to identify, hey, I had all the disadvantages necessary for success.

01:05:26.240 I just love that.

01:05:27.560 And to me, it speaks to what this country allows you to go out and do and create and invent and crush.

01:05:35.340 So, yeah, that's just fantastic, I think.

01:05:38.060 I'm with you, buddy.

01:05:38.760 Well, I'm glad that we're still living in the greatest country in the world.

01:05:42.560 And there's people like you that want to keep it that way.

01:05:44.620 So, appreciate your courage, man.

01:05:46.260 Truly, thank you.

01:05:47.540 Thank you so much.

01:05:48.300 You take care.

01:05:48.880 Take care, buddy.

01:05:49.540 Bye-bye.

01:05:50.200 I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did.

01:05:51.900 If you did, give it a thumbs up and subscribe.

01:05:53.460 I got two videos I want you to watch.

01:05:54.700 One of them is Mike Ritland, former Navy SEAL, who wasn't as diplomatic about his answers with women being Navy SEALs.

01:06:02.520 Here's what he had to say about it.

01:06:04.080 And the other one is probably one of my favorite interviews in regards to a sniper from UK who has the world record, right?

01:06:10.340 The longest shot ever in the world as a sniper with 80 confirmed kills.

01:06:14.640 If you've never seen that one, click over here.

01:06:16.880 Absolutely fascinating interview.

01:06:18.940 Having said that, have a great one, everybody.

01:06:20.960 Take care.

01:06:21.420 Bye-bye.

01:06:24.700 Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - December 20, 2021

＂We're DESTROYING OURSELVES From Within＂ - Navy Seal Jack Carr

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