00:01:16.940Our guest today is an American blues and rock and roll musician, author, and activist.
00:01:26.220Perhaps he is best known for his work to improve race relations in America by speaking with Klansmen to spark a new mindset that eventually enables them to leave the KKK and start a new life.
00:01:39.340I'm honored to introduce to our audience, Daryl Davis.
00:01:46.620Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here.
00:01:49.120I'm excited beyond words to be speaking with you today.
00:01:53.120So what I wanted to do, thank you, what I wanted to do is sort of start the conversation and frame the conversation with what I interpret as sort of your overarching theme and really agenda when you do what you do.
00:02:11.120And what I would take from that is this, that the overall theme is how can you hate me without even knowing me?
00:02:19.980How can you hate me if you don't even know me, to be exact, to use the exact quote?
00:02:25.520Explain that, how that mindset really entered your life.
00:02:30.120Well, it started when I was felted by rocks and bottles and soda pop cans during a parade in which I was 10 years old and I was the only black child participating in this parade.
00:02:43.940While the vast majority of the audience, you know, lining up the sidewalks and streets and stuff were white.
00:02:51.700I didn't have any problems and I'd never had any problems in my life up until that point.
00:02:56.600We reached one point in the parade and all of a sudden I was getting hit and I was marching with the Cub Scouts.
00:03:02.480Now, because I didn't have prior experience in this, my first thought was, oh, those people over here on the sidewalk don't like the Scouts.
00:03:12.060You know, so I didn't realize I was the only one being targeted until my scout leaders, you know, ran over and covered me with their bodies and escorted me out of the danger.
00:03:23.120I kept asking them why, why are they hitting me?
00:04:41.800Now, while people may have had funny accents or they didn't all speak English, and I certainly didn't speak, you know, Czechoslovakian or Japanese or whatever, we all got along.
00:05:19.360You know, it just like opened up, sort of like, I guess, going today from, you know, one-dimensional, two-dimensional to three-dimensional or something.
00:05:29.740But when I would come home from an overseas assignment of my parents, come back home, it was like going from technicolor to black and white.
00:05:42.080Because when I would come home, I would be in either all black schools or black and white schools, depending upon whether I was still in the still segregated or the newly integrated school.
00:05:53.580And the newly integrated school was just black kids and white kids.
00:05:57.240There was not the vast diversity of colors and shades that I had overseas, because diversity had not really come to this country at that point.
00:07:50.740And, but at the same time, be aware that, you know, that there are people who simply, you know, do not like you because of the color of your skin.
00:08:02.720Now, the problem with that was the fact that I didn't believe my parents.
00:08:10.520What do you mean you didn't believe them?
00:08:12.020Just because you had never experienced racism, so you thought they were lying?
00:08:24.940So you remember thinking that at age 10, like my parents have never lied before, but all of a sudden they're lying to me after this Cub Scout incident.
00:08:35.180So I didn't have, you know, a lot of my friends had brothers and sisters, young or older, you know, whose experiences were passed down, you know, to the younger siblings.
00:09:04.020But this time, when they were explaining what the problem was to me, because I couldn't figure it out, or I had the wrong answers, I just thought people would just, you know, I didn't know why they didn't like me.
00:09:15.880I thought maybe because I'm the new kid on the block or something, because I've only been there a couple months.
00:09:19.380So when they were explaining to me this time, I didn't have reason to believe them, because the people who were doing this to me looked exactly like my friends, my friends right there in school in Belmont, or my friends from the American Embassy overseas, or my little German friends, my Finnish friends, my Swedish friends.
00:09:38.740My Australian friends, so they had the same color of skin, so, and I was the same color, you know, associated with them as I was on the streets of Belmont, Massachusetts.
00:09:48.440I didn't understand the problem, because I had not grown up here.
00:09:52.400I already had good experiences with people who looked like the people who were perpetrating this violence upon me.
00:10:00.280So why would I think that was the color of my skin?
00:10:02.360So it sounds like this talk that your parents had with you was very uplifting, meaning,
00:10:07.640you could be anything you want to be, Daryl.
00:10:29.440It is, well, it depends on the parents, of course, too, because there are some parents who tell their kids, you know, you'll never amount to anything or whatever.
00:10:36.800But the talk is always based upon race.
00:10:41.700And the degree to which it's based upon race varies as a child gets older.
00:10:47.360Because, for example, that same talk, you know, I went back overseas, you know, after that school year, and I was back to what I call normalcy.
00:11:34.480So by the age of 16, I'm being told by my parents, you know, that the police may pull you over.
00:11:40.120And even if you're not doing anything wrong, be polite, be respectful, keep your hands on the wheel, do exactly as they tell you.
00:11:47.220Even if they give you a ticket and you know you were not doing whatever it is, you know, they told you you were doing, just take the ticket, sign it.
00:13:10.480But what it was, was he knew, you know, that a young black, you know, black boy, age 16, driving around in Mercedes, just, you know, was going to draw the attention of the police.
00:13:24.020But the kids in my neighborhood, they had fancy cars.
00:13:37.480There's something important about that year 1968 that you're talking about, because that is also the year that America was just basically burning down.
00:13:46.860That was the same year that MLK was shot, that Bobby Kennedy.
00:14:46.940I spent a lot of my formative years overseas, and so we weren't having civil rights marches and all that kind of thing over there.
00:14:55.860So, but when I, you know, it happened in the middle of my program, and usually it was something significant, you know, that everybody could relate to whenever a newscaster, you know, burst into a middle of a program.
00:15:11.620And since I didn't know who MLK was, I didn't understand, you know, people, you know, die all the time, I didn't understand the significance of it as to why this could not wait for the 6 o'clock news.
00:15:25.480Why did it have to, you know, burst into my program?
00:15:27.460Why are you messing up my bewitched favorite program?
00:15:31.580So, but I figured it had to be something important, and maybe I just didn't know who it was.
00:15:35.620So I wouldn't tell my father, maybe he would know.
00:15:39.120And as soon as I mentioned it, he was in his little office typing, and as soon as I mentioned it, his hand, I mean, his head fell into his hands.
00:15:47.280And he said, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:15:49.720You know, and he was like, I'm not going to know what's going on here.
00:15:52.900And he began sobbing about it, and I just did not understand that.
00:15:56.700I'd never, you know, I'd seen my mom cry, I'd never seen my dad cry.
00:16:00.300But who is this person that, you know, that's making, you know, my father cry?
00:16:04.320You know, it's not a relative, you know.
00:16:07.500And so he began explaining all the things that MLK had done.
00:23:29.440And all because she had a black man, she was a white woman, you know, driving a black man around.
00:23:36.540Now, you know, in later years, like just back, let's say, 1992 or 3, when I was interviewing this one Klan leader,
00:23:48.660shortly after I interviewed him, he went to prison for he and one of his Klansmen, he pulled up to a stoplight in his town here in Maryland.
00:24:00.940And at the stoplight, right in the main intersection of town, there was a vehicle to the right, had a black driver and a white woman in the passenger seat.
00:24:11.420And he and the Klansmen, the Klansmen got out, dragged him out of the truck and beat him within inches of his life.
00:24:18.320They left him in the street for dead, thinking he was dead, and drove off in front of 11 witnesses.
00:24:39.960I mean, MLK, Bobby Kennedy, everything you just talked about, someone just pulling up to a white woman just because she's driving with a black man shooting them.
00:24:50.820How would you compare that to today with the racial tensions today?
00:24:54.140Is it even comparable or is there some similarities?
00:36:19.920And for our audience that doesn't know who he is, there was a famous scene in Coming to America, Eddie Murphy, where he's shouting from the rooftops,
00:36:27.940to be loved, to be loved, oh, what a feeling, to be loved.
00:36:32.880And I remember, like, who is that singer?
00:41:56.320So, can we stay on this financial topic for a second before we get into the KKK?
00:42:02.480You know, I host another show here on Valuetainment, on Valuetainment Economics, where I'm all about encouraging people to save that money.
00:42:11.780So, basically, make your money, save it, be financially smart.
00:43:44.580But, of course, it's not so much that we're prone to crime.
00:43:48.420It's so much that there is an imbalance of our judicial system as well.
00:43:52.080And, plus, as you point out, the poverty, there are poor white people as well who are in prison, but plenty of black people because they cannot afford adequate legal representation.
00:44:02.920And so they end up taking a plea deal of something they didn't even do.
00:44:08.620And then they say, you know, that black people are born with a smaller brain than white people.
00:44:13.360And the larger the brain, the more room for capacity of intelligence.
00:44:18.080You know, that's their line of thinking.
00:44:20.100And they evidenced that by the low SAT scores that black kids, students have.
00:44:25.820Of course, they're not realizing that the school systems in the inner city are not as good as the school systems in the suburb, which is why when we moved to Boston, it was terrible, terrible.
00:44:37.300So within a couple weeks, we moved up to the suburbs so I could give a good education.
00:48:52.660Because once they're heard, and I allow them to be heard rather than shut them down and push back, then when they are heard, their wall comes down.
00:52:55.720And that's how you're able to, with that state of mind, that's how you're able to sit down with these racist KKK members and hear them and listen to them.
00:54:50.680So, usually, when you're telling somebody things like that, you know, you're talking to your adversary and you are calling him a criminal, lazy, being on welfare, telling him he's not as intelligent as you are because his brain is smaller and things like that.
00:56:54.340But if my parents were telling me that, I might take a little more, you know, acceptance of what they had to say because they brought me into this world.
00:59:48.020And I know that I have more intelligence in my little fingernail than he and his whole plan put together.
00:59:55.840But I'm not going to throw that in his face.
00:59:58.140Because if I did, that wall goes back up.
01:00:00.740So let me tell you what happens then, okay?
01:00:04.140So, you know, rather than attack with all those facts that I have, I just defend them.
01:00:10.320And that way he hears them and he can process them.
01:00:13.840He doesn't hear anything with them when his wall is up.
01:00:15.980So I can tell you this for a fact, not an opinion, a fact.
01:00:20.320Because years later, months later, whatever, when they renounce that ideology and give it up and give you their robes and hoods and stuff, here's what I found out has happened multiple times with these people.
01:00:33.120They go home and they think about what transpired during the day.
01:00:37.640And they're like, damn, you know, I just had a three-hour conversation with a black guy.
01:02:37.880Like, what do you think is actually going on in these KKK members heads that just causes them to say, what is going on here?
01:02:45.160Because I can tell you exactly what they've told me, you know, and now we're friends.
01:02:49.300And some of them even come out with me on the speaking circuit and speak with me on the same stage and and we now, you know, their former organization.
01:02:56.520What goes through their mind is, you know, how it depends upon what they have invested in the group.
01:03:03.380If they're just a rank and file member, you know, they don't have a lot invested.
01:03:09.300So they're easier to get out if they are a leader.
01:03:42.180When you are a leader, you are powerful.
01:03:44.420And no matter what organization you are in, racist or non-racist, political or non-political, when you are in when you are sitting on the throne of power, you don't want to get off.
01:04:02.140If you have a number one song, number one, platinum, you don't want to see it drop down to number two and then down to number three and then fall off the top 100.
01:04:12.320You want to stay at number one for as long as you can.
01:05:44.460So a state leader is known as a grand dragon.
01:05:47.200A national leader is known as an imperial wizard.
01:05:50.520So if they retire because, you know, they can't do it anymore, they can't march anymore, they're, you know, they had knee operation or just old and whatever else, they just need to get out.
01:06:01.100But they still have, they still believe in white supremacy.
01:06:04.260Then they are, it's like, you know, we would say president or ex-president, former president.
01:06:08.660So a former grand dragon who still has those beliefs becomes a grand giant.
01:06:14.320An imperial wizard becomes an imperial giant.
01:06:16.900Giant means retired but still of the faith.
01:08:11.700I have acquaintances I get along with and I have friends.
01:08:14.900And, you know, you don't always have to agree with your friends.
01:08:17.100You know, you might have a, you know, you might be pro-abortion and your friend is, you know, pro-choice or whatever, you know, pro-choice or pro-life or whatever.
01:08:29.880But you find other things to agree upon, you know, and the more you talk, the more you begin to humanize the other person and you might see their point of view or your point of view, et cetera.
01:08:40.120That's how things, you find commonalities that way, even though you start out as adversaries.
01:09:06.280You may not agree on everything, but you have a friendship.
01:09:08.160And at this point in time, the trivial things that you have in contrast, such as skin color or whether you go to a church, a temple, a mosque or a synagogue, begin to matter less and less.
01:11:40.660So this, let's go back to three years ago, last month, Charlottesville, Virginia, where they had a white supremacist, large white supremacist rally.
01:11:51.160And Heather Heyer, I believe, was the woman.
01:11:55.220Heather Heyer was murdered there by a white supremacist.
01:11:58.920There were many, many scenes of violence that day all over downtown Charlottesville.
01:12:04.880One of the scenes depicted some Klansmen coming down the steps of a Confederate park.
01:12:12.040Swinging Confederate flagpoles of this black guy who at the same time was trying to torch them with an improvised flamethrower, an air salt cannon.
01:12:52.200As a result of their inaction and also other inactions that day, the police chief of Charlottesville was fired and replaced, as he should have been.
01:13:02.720Anyway, so, you know, I was thinking, you know, what on earth?
01:13:10.980You know, what would you do if you saw that in your city?
01:13:13.640And too many Americans think, oh, you know, I live in Los Angeles or I live in Boise, Idaho.
01:54:22.840You had to go to Ticketron or Ticketmaster.
01:54:25.800And people would camp out the night before, make a big line all the way around the block
01:54:29.880to get in that door to Heck Company to go to Ticketron and get their tickets at the mall or whatever.
01:54:36.360And so there had been an announcement, you know, that the Stones were coming.
01:54:40.200And so people, you know, took off work and went out there and camped out on the sidewalk,
01:54:44.400spent the night out there, you know, to wait until the next morning to be the first to get in that door and get front row tickets or whatever.
01:54:49.420And so big, long line, you know, morning came, it's almost time for the mall to open.
01:54:56.680And this black guy pulls up in this car along the street to the sidewalk, a big, long line.
01:55:02.940And he pulls up right by the front door.
01:55:04.720He gets out and he walks through the front of the line.
01:55:08.060And these guys had been there all night.
01:55:26.020But they had the sidewalk that said, you stupid N-word, the line is back there, and threw him out in the street.
01:55:32.200He got up, brushed himself off, got inside his car, started his car back up.
01:55:37.380Then he got out of the car and he said to them, you know, you can call me stupid and you can call me the N-word, but I'm the stupid N-word that has the keys to let you all in there.
01:55:53.980So with that, he got back inside his car and drove to the end of the line on the other side of the mall and opened that door first.
01:56:03.580So all the people at the end of the line got to go get their tickets for us.
01:59:00.440Now, do these Americans who have British ancestry who fought against us, do they honor Great Britain by building statues out here of King George III and flying the Union Jack?
02:01:52.060Slavery was the biggest part of it because the people, and listen, you've heard the term, you know, she comes from old money or he comes from old money.
02:02:34.220In those days, money did grow on trees because you didn't have to work for it.
02:02:38.540You had slaves doing your work for you, and you weren't paying them, and all you were doing was just getting money.
02:02:43.920So you had a money tree in your, you would say today, in your backyard, but back in those days, you had a money tree on my plantation, you know?
02:02:51.820And when somebody would say, you might be too young to remember this expression, but something like, it's none of your cotton-picking business.
02:03:12.700You know, he comes from the wrong side of the tracks.
02:03:15.340Well, that's the black side of the tracks in the South, because the railroad tracks divided the white side of town to the black side of town.
02:03:21.160So the wrong side of the tracks were the black side of the tracks.
02:05:20.400And if you think that flag represents your heritage, all you have to do is go on Google, if you don't want to go to one physically, go on Google, just Google Klan rally, KKK rally, and click on images.
02:05:33.180You see all these images, people in robes and hoods holding Confederate flags.
02:05:36.860Now, you call that a hate group, you say, oh, I'm not associated with that.
02:06:30.860And if you see somebody flying a Confederate flag, I want you to go to that person in the Roman hood with the Confederate flag and tell them that's not what it stands for.
02:06:42.340Whether they give it back to you or not, if you do that, I will come to your house and I will take your Confederate flag and I will hoist it up your flagpole for you.
02:07:20.540You're even a bigger problem than black people.
02:07:22.860Jewish people are a bigger problem than black people, according to the KKK.
02:07:25.900And that changed, it started to change in the late 50s, and it began changing throughout the 60s because what they consider the biggest problem are the Jews.
02:07:41.540They call it ZOG, Z-O-G, which stands for Zionist Occupied Government, ZOG.
02:07:48.980And they came to the conclusion that, and this is all white supremacists, neo-Nazis, Klan, whatever, that Jews are running the media, they own all the TV stations, all the newspapers, they own the banking system, and all these things.
02:08:10.100And it's jealousy because they were too dumb to do it themselves or whatever, and Jewish people figured out how to create a valuable and a viable banking system.
02:08:22.780Surely they do run a lot of media, et cetera.
02:08:43.500The Jews run everything, and we are the pawns.
02:08:46.160It's like the drug lord and the dealers on the streets.
02:08:49.200So if I came and met with a KKK member, like with you, you're saying if the two of us sat down, Daryl and Adam, we're going to go meet some KKK members, you would say that they would hate me more than they hate you?
02:09:03.460Yeah, because your people control my people.
02:12:08.940Listen, let me tell you how I view it as a musician, okay?
02:12:14.400I spend a lot of time playing in other people's bands, being their musical director or being a side man.
02:12:22.640Like, you know, when I play with Chuck, for example, Barry, if I was in a position as musical director, I would have to rehearse whatever band he had and direct them, how to follow him, et cetera.
02:12:36.680Other times, you know, I'm just a side man, you know, in somebody's band, you know, they're the front person, I'm just playing backup piano for them, backup guitar or whatever.
02:12:47.200But as a band leader in my own band, I'm the front man, I'm the leader.
02:12:52.760And my job as a band leader is to bring harmony between the voices on my stage, whether they are the instrumental voices, the piano, bass, drums, guitar, saxophone, whatever else I have in the band, and the human voices, the singers.
02:13:07.180Right? We want harmony. The only time that I want dissonance is when I interjected into the music intentionally, and that can be done for effect.
02:13:18.480Like, I want to create a certain mood, so I put some strange thing in there to jolt the audience.
02:13:24.560You know, that's called a dissonance, because it doesn't belong within the harmony of the music.
02:13:28.920So, if dissonance happens randomly and not intentionally, then that's noise.
02:13:36.100Somebody hit a bad note, or somebody sang out a tune, somebody made a mistake in what they were playing.
02:13:41.020That's where James Brown will knock you five bucks right there.
02:13:43.500That's right. And James Brown will make you rehearse until four o'clock in the morning.
02:13:47.120Even if one person made a mistake, the whole band has to come and rehearse until four o'clock in the morning.
02:13:51.800Yeah. Exactly. He turned around and go like this, five bucks or whatever.
02:14:45.300Well, I've changed in realizing that people can change. Because when I first went into this, you know, the change thing was not in my mind at all.
02:14:57.240You know, I had no reason to believe that these people are going to change. All I wanted was to find out, how can you hate me when you don't even know me? That's all I want to know. I'm going to write a book about it. I'm going to write a book about why you people think this way.
02:15:12.800Because as kids, you've heard it. I've heard it. Everybody's heard it. A tiger does not change his stripes. A leopard does not change his spots. So why would I believe that a Klansman would change his robe and hood?
02:15:26.680Right? So I'm not going in with the idea, you know, you need to give this up. Give me your robe. No, no. I just want to know why you hate me. That's all. You know, and then we're going to shake hands. We're going to walk away and you're going to continue dating. I'm going to continue doing what I do.
02:15:42.000But what happened was people began changing. And I thought, wait a minute. I'm on to something here. I thought a tiger didn't change his stripes and a leopard didn't change his spots. But now a Klansman is changing his robe and hood.
02:15:55.600And it happened again and again and again. So that's why I keep doing it. But I had made a mistake. My mistake was in believing that because a leopard did not change his spots and a Klansman, I mean, a tiger did not change his stripes, that a Klansman would not change his robe and hood.
02:16:12.560That's a mistake. Because what we have to understand is this. A leopard and a tiger are born with their spots and stripes. A Klansman is not born with racism. That's a learned behavior.
02:16:29.020So what can be learned can be unlearned. So that is true. A tiger cannot change his stripes. A leopard cannot change his stripes. Or vice versa. Because they are born with those things. Racism you're not born with is learned.
02:16:49.880Wow. So, last thing. Are you optimistic about the future of race relations in the United States?
02:17:02.320I don't get involved in anything that I can't do. So yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And we are in the best time of our lives right now.
02:17:11.300Okay? It was always going to, you know, anytime you have change, there's going to be upheaval. Because people are creatures of change. I mean, people are creatures of habit. And change disrupts them. All right? So yes, we're in the best time since the 20th century right now.
02:17:28.820And I say that because we're turning a page. We turned a page with Rosa Parks. We turned a page with Dr. King throughout the 60s. We turned a page when Barack Obama went into the White House. Today, we're turning a page with these protests.
02:17:44.520And we're seeing more, you know, you think we're seeing a lot of division out there? Yes, there is a lot of division out there. That's because of the upheaval. People don't like to change. But what are we seeing different today than we've ever seen before?
02:18:03.580We've always had protests out in the streets saying, no justice, no peace. We want equality. Enough's enough. We've heard those slogans for years. Decades. Back to the 60s and 50s. All right? But what are we seeing different today? Let me explain something to you. We're seeing the results of the collective force. All right?
02:18:27.080Black people. Black people have always been involved in our protests. Even back to the 50s with Rosa Parks. There was a smattering of white people who saw, you know, this is right. I need to support this.
02:18:43.760In the Freedom Rides in the 60s, trying to integrate the bus stations in the South. White people took part in that. White people were beat just like black people by the Klan at the Birmingham bus station because they were considered race traitors. They were supporting these black people. You know, they wanted one waiting room, not a black waiting room and a white waiting room. All that kind of stuff. They wanted to end segregation.
02:19:06.880So we've always had some white people who participated with us. Black people did not put Barack Obama in the White House. It was white people who put him in the White House because black people only make 12% of the U.S. population. And not all 12% of us are eligible to vote, either because we're not registered or we're underage or we're felons or whatever case may be that, you know, that you're not qualified to vote. All right?
02:19:36.060Even if all 12% of black people in this country, including newborn babies, were able to vote, that still would not be enough. We still needed a great portion of white people to join us to get that man in the White House, right?
02:19:51.58020 years ago, Barack Obama or any other black person could not have won the White House because the attitude was not there for enough white people to consider voting for a black man. By 2008, there were enough white people where the attitude had changed.
02:20:10.560Where they would say, you know, I like that guy's policies. Yeah, he's got my vote. Check. Right? So it took that number of white people to join in with us to get him in the White House. We could not have done it by ourselves. That collective voice. All right?
02:20:25.820You look at the protests starting in the 60s or 50s, whatever. Okay? We always saw a smattering of white people with us. Today, look at the protests. You see a mass of white people. And as a result, changes are happening a lot faster. All right?
02:20:47.820In the past, the establishment, that's a polite word of saying the white power structure. All right? They look and they see the protests. It's just about a sea of black people with a few sprinkles of salt amongst the pepper. Right? They're like this. They didn't want to hear what we had to say. They just shut us down. They didn't care. We can march all day, all year long. They don't care. All right?
02:21:14.120Now, back then, if a police officer were to be charged, let alone fired in those rare instances, it took months, months of investigation, this, that, and the other, and then maybe the guy would get fired and convicted. Today, it's happening boom, boom, boom, like that. Within a week, the cops charge, he's fired, ba-ba-boom. What's the difference?
02:21:39.900Look at the protesters. Look at the protesters. The power structure, the establishment is seeing more and more people who look like them. So now they're pulling out the earplugs or they're putting in their hearing aids and they're listening.
02:21:53.900They're listening. They're like, oh, damn. Maybe we better reconsider this. And so now change is happening. And while these protests in the wake of George Floyd, and people are now understanding, listen, George Floyd was not an anomaly. We've had thousands of George Floyds.
02:22:13.300Of course. Yeah, this George Floyd is the straw that broke the camel's back. And coronavirus, of course, helped with that. Because people are not at work. They're at home. They're watching TV. They're seeing this unfold before them.
02:22:27.940And they had time to do some introspection and reflect on it. Whoa, whoa, this is wrong. Now I get it. Now I understand what they've been talking about all these years, about police brutality and blah, blah, blah. I need to get out there in the street and protest.
02:22:43.060And despite the coronavirus being out there, these people are so committed to getting out there and protesting to do what's right.
02:22:53.260So we see this big sea of white people that, again, there's that collective voice that gets things done.
02:22:59.360And while the protests were geared predominantly towards police misbehavior and police racial profiling and all that stuff, there has been a larger ripple effect than we've ever seen in this country.
02:23:12.980The ripple effect being NASCAR banning the Confederate flag, legislation to take down those statues, the state of Mississippi, of all places, taking the Confederate flag out of their flag.
02:23:27.700And whoever heard of such Mississippi, they're doing it, you know.
02:23:32.660I remember seeing the movie Mississippi Burning. Wow.
02:23:36.940Yeah. And Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben's food products changing the labels. All kinds of things are happening.
02:23:45.480You know, more conversations about this. That's that ripple effect. What caused that ripple effect? That collective voice.
02:23:51.900So that's the key. People coming together and working together is what creates change a lot quicker than people working by themselves.
02:24:02.560And see, that's what I was trying to stress to those people in that movie, Accidental Courtesy.
02:24:08.680We need to work together. You do what you got to do for systemic racism.
02:24:13.320I do what I have to do for individuals. Let's let's cooperate and coordinate.
02:24:17.640You know, together we can beat this problem. But how are we going to beat it? Fighting each other. Stupid.
02:24:25.300That's what they weren't getting. And now we see how it works. Work together on the common problem.
02:24:31.800You know, and so that's what we need to focus on. The collective voice.
02:24:37.380Like I said, talking at somebody, talking about somebody and talking past somebody doesn't work.
02:24:44.620Talking with somebody is the key. Working together.
02:24:49.600Respect and a willingness to listen. And as you say, I'm going to use your quote.
02:24:54.540When two enemies are talking, they're not fighting.
02:24:57.880It's when talking ceases, the ground becomes fertile for violence.
02:27:33.220What a powerful interview I just had with Daryl Davis.
02:27:36.520You'd be hard pressed to find a more unique story than his.
02:27:39.880One thing that comes to mind in our interview, I asked him in America today, who is more likely to get along, blacks and whites or Democrats and Republicans?
02:27:47.700He said, without a doubt, blacks and whites, which was A, encouraging to hear, but B, pretty sad to hear how politically divided we are in America today.
02:27:57.520One thing I would implore you to do is use his two ingredients for success with other people, respect and listening to others.