Valuetainment - Why A Black Man Attends KKK Rallies & Befriends Klansmen

00:00:00.000 You refer to a lot of these KKK Klansmen as your friend. 0.80

00:00:04.000 Are they really your friends, or are they more acquaintances you get along with?

00:00:09.260 Both. In the beginning, there was one Klan, and chapters of that Klan spread all over the place.

00:00:15.880 Today, there is no such thing as the Ku Klux Klan, because of all the infighting.

00:00:21.380 And I realized it right after Mark the King was assassinated. I just didn't know why.

00:00:25.700 Why do people hate you when they don't know you?

00:00:27.560 You had worked with Chuck Berry for 30-plus years.

00:00:30.980 I played all his hits with him.

00:00:32.300 What are your thoughts on Jackie Wilson?

00:00:34.340 Oh, man, one of the greatest singers of all time.

00:00:36.860 And for some reason, he's not as famous as Elvis, as Chuck Berry.

00:00:41.860 There's a reason why.

00:00:42.740 Tell me why.

00:00:43.340 The reason is racist. There were no black idols on TV.

00:00:46.740 Why are black people so angry towards you? 1.00

00:00:49.640 I'm sitting down talking with the enemy. I'm talking with the oppressors. 0.98

00:00:53.180 If you want to be heard, then you have to hear to other people, too.

00:00:56.020 So I allowed them to speak. And then they allowed me to be heard.

00:00:59.580 And over time, they realized, you know what? I didn't change my direction.

00:01:02.720 That's how you're able to sit down with these racist KKK members and listen to them.

00:01:08.320 The grand dragon Roger Kelly.

00:01:10.360 You two became so close, he named you the godfather of his daughter.

00:01:14.220 Yeah, he did. Racism you're not born with.

00:01:16.540 It's learned.

00:01:16.940 Our guest today is an American blues and rock and roll musician, author, and activist.

00:01:26.220 Perhaps he is best known for his work to improve race relations in America by speaking with Klansmen to spark a new mindset that eventually enables them to leave the KKK and start a new life. 0.50

00:01:39.340 I'm honored to introduce to our audience, Daryl Davis.

00:01:44.220 Mr. Davis, welcome to Valuetainment.

00:01:46.620 Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here.

00:01:49.120 I'm excited beyond words to be speaking with you today.

00:01:53.120 So what I wanted to do, thank you, what I wanted to do is sort of start the conversation and frame the conversation with what I interpret as sort of your overarching theme and really agenda when you do what you do.

00:02:11.120 And what I would take from that is this, that the overall theme is how can you hate me without even knowing me?

00:02:17.820 Is that fair to say?

00:02:19.460 Absolutely.

00:02:19.980 How can you hate me if you don't even know me, to be exact, to use the exact quote?

00:02:25.520 Explain that, how that mindset really entered your life.

00:02:30.120 Well, it started when I was felted by rocks and bottles and soda pop cans during a parade in which I was 10 years old and I was the only black child participating in this parade.

00:02:43.940 While the vast majority of the audience, you know, lining up the sidewalks and streets and stuff were white.

00:02:51.700 I didn't have any problems and I'd never had any problems in my life up until that point.

00:02:56.600 We reached one point in the parade and all of a sudden I was getting hit and I was marching with the Cub Scouts.

00:03:02.480 Now, because I didn't have prior experience in this, my first thought was, oh, those people over here on the sidewalk don't like the Scouts.

00:03:12.060 You know, so I didn't realize I was the only one being targeted until my scout leaders, you know, ran over and covered me with their bodies and escorted me out of the danger.

00:03:23.120 I kept asking them why, why are they hitting me?

00:03:24.920 I didn't do anything.

00:03:25.540 And all they would do is just kind of shush me and rush me along, telling me everything would be OK.

00:03:31.900 So I had no clue until I got home.

00:03:36.080 And my parents, who were not present during the parade, you know, were asking me, how did I fall down and get all scraped up?

00:03:42.600 I tripped or something.

00:03:44.280 And I told them what had happened.

00:03:46.140 And they sat me down and explained to me why this happened.

00:03:49.820 And that was the first time I'd even ever heard the word racism.

00:03:55.560 I had no clue what they were talking about.

00:03:57.580 Now, that's because my background, my parents were U.S. Foreign Service.

00:04:02.340 So we spent a lot of time overseas.

00:04:04.760 And I grew up as an American embassy brat.

00:04:07.940 So I attended international schools.

00:04:11.360 This is back in the early 60s.

00:04:13.460 And my classes over there were full of kids from all over the world.

00:04:18.620 Because anybody that had an embassy in that country, all of their kids went to the same school.

00:04:23.440 So, you know, I look here.

00:04:24.280 There's a little kid from Czechoslovakia, a kid from Japan, a kid from Russia, a kid from France, Germany, Switzerland, Nigeria, wherever.

00:04:31.380 All different shapes and sizes.

00:04:33.160 All different shapes and sizes and shades of color.

00:04:36.160 And that was my norm.

00:04:40.260 That's all I knew, you know.

00:04:41.800 Now, while people may have had funny accents or they didn't all speak English, and I certainly didn't speak, you know, Czechoslovakian or Japanese or whatever, we all got along.

00:04:52.700 We all worked together.

00:04:53.800 We played together.

00:04:54.660 We had slumber parties.

00:04:56.140 You know, it was my norm.

00:04:56.940 And it wouldn't be until I would come home that my norm changed.

00:05:03.100 And here's what's interesting about it, Adam.

00:05:06.440 I remember as a kid, you know, we had TV.

00:05:09.860 And this is, it was black and white TV.

00:05:13.720 And then, you know, a few years later, it was color TV.

00:05:17.680 And that was a whole different world.

00:05:19.360 You know, it just like opened up, sort of like, I guess, going today from, you know, one-dimensional, two-dimensional to three-dimensional or something.

00:05:27.980 Color TV was it.

00:05:29.740 But when I would come home from an overseas assignment of my parents, come back home, it was like going from technicolor to black and white.

00:05:40.980 It was the reverse.

00:05:42.080 Because when I would come home, I would be in either all black schools or black and white schools, depending upon whether I was still in the still segregated or the newly integrated school.

00:05:53.580 And the newly integrated school was just black kids and white kids.

00:05:57.240 There was not the vast diversity of colors and shades that I had overseas, because diversity had not really come to this country at that point.

00:06:06.020 And let me ask you something, Daryl.

00:06:07.500 This was, what, mid-60s in the Boston area?

00:06:10.220 Where was this exactly?

00:06:11.460 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:06:12.240 Okay.

00:06:12.700 It was, well, you know, I would come back every two years.

00:06:16.340 So, no matter where I was, in Virginia, in D.C., in Boston.

00:06:21.280 But the Boston thing that you're talking about, Belmont, right outside of Boston, was 1968.

00:06:26.960 Okay.

00:06:27.460 And at that point, I was one of two black children in the entire school.

00:06:32.240 I was age 10, and I was in fourth grade.

00:06:35.160 It was a little black girl of second grade.

00:06:37.940 So, consequently, all of my friends were white. 0.67

00:06:40.740 And it was those male friends who invited me to join the Cubs guys.

00:06:46.100 Let me ask you, Mr. Davis.

00:06:48.660 Can I call you Daryl?

00:06:50.640 Yeah, call me Daryl.

00:06:51.540 Daryl or DD, or we talked about Triple D?

00:06:55.380 Any of the above.

00:06:56.660 Double D?

00:06:57.900 Yeah.

00:06:58.580 Daryl.

00:06:58.940 And what's your middle name again?

00:07:00.480 Dwight.

00:07:00.800 Daryl Dwight Davis.

00:07:02.680 Triple D.

00:07:03.260 I love it.

00:07:03.880 Amazing.

00:07:04.840 Double D, Triple D.

00:07:06.120 So, let's take it back.

00:07:07.700 Before we kind of go deeper on this, let's take it back to being 10 years old.

00:07:10.720 It's 1968, and they had to have the talk with you, right?

00:07:14.940 Yes, they did.

00:07:16.160 You were 10 years old.

00:07:17.220 Would you explain what the talk was and what that talk still is today that black parents have to have with their kids?

00:07:27.740 What is the talk?

00:07:28.620 Okay, well, at that particular age, it was that, you know, you are capable of being anything you want to be.

00:07:39.760 You know, don't let anybody tell you that you can't be anything that you want to be.

00:07:44.120 You work hard.

00:07:45.240 You be honest.

00:07:46.500 You know, you have patience.

00:07:47.880 You have discipline.

00:07:49.260 You can achieve anything.

00:07:50.740 And, but at the same time, be aware that, you know, that there are people who simply, you know, do not like you because of the color of your skin.

00:08:02.720 Now, the problem with that was the fact that I didn't believe my parents.

00:08:10.520 What do you mean you didn't believe them?

00:08:12.020 Just because you had never experienced racism, so you thought they were lying?

00:08:15.000 What did you think it was?

00:08:16.400 Yeah, yeah, I believe they were lying.

00:08:17.880 I didn't know why, because, you know, they never lied before.

00:08:22.740 So why are they lying now?

00:08:24.940 So you remember thinking that at age 10, like my parents have never lied before, but all of a sudden they're lying to me after this Cub Scout incident.

00:08:33.240 Because I was an only child.

00:08:35.180 So I didn't have, you know, a lot of my friends had brothers and sisters, young or older, you know, whose experiences were passed down, you know, to the younger siblings.

00:08:44.940 And so I didn't have that.

00:08:46.200 So whenever I had an issue, a problem, a question, the only people I could go to were my parents.

00:08:52.400 And my parents always either solved the question or problem for me or gave me the tools of which I could do it.

00:09:00.660 And it always worked.

00:09:01.780 It was always truthful.

00:09:02.660 It always made sense.

00:09:04.020 But this time, when they were explaining what the problem was to me, because I couldn't figure it out, or I had the wrong answers, I just thought people would just, you know, I didn't know why they didn't like me.

00:09:15.880 I thought maybe because I'm the new kid on the block or something, because I've only been there a couple months.

00:09:19.380 So when they were explaining to me this time, I didn't have reason to believe them, because the people who were doing this to me looked exactly like my friends, my friends right there in school in Belmont, or my friends from the American Embassy overseas, or my little German friends, my Finnish friends, my Swedish friends.

00:09:38.740 My Australian friends, so they had the same color of skin, so, and I was the same color, you know, associated with them as I was on the streets of Belmont, Massachusetts.

00:09:48.440 I didn't understand the problem, because I had not grown up here.

00:09:52.400 I already had good experiences with people who looked like the people who were perpetrating this violence upon me. 0.99

00:10:00.280 So why would I think that was the color of my skin?

00:10:02.360 So it sounds like this talk that your parents had with you was very uplifting, meaning,

00:10:07.640 you could be anything you want to be, Daryl.

00:10:10.160 You can do anything you want to do.

00:10:12.120 Anything is possible.

00:10:13.800 I asked you initially about this talk.

00:10:17.200 What do you think that talk sounds like today that parents have with their kids?

00:10:21.860 Is it the same thing?

00:10:22.840 Is it different?

00:10:23.560 Is it more regarding police?

00:10:25.360 Is it still about racism?

00:10:26.640 Is it uplifting?

00:10:27.720 What's that talk like today?

00:10:29.440 It is, well, it depends on the parents, of course, too, because there are some parents who tell their kids, you know, you'll never amount to anything or whatever.

00:10:36.800 But the talk is always based upon race.

00:10:41.700 And the degree to which it's based upon race varies as a child gets older.

00:10:47.360 Because, for example, that same talk, you know, I went back overseas, you know, after that school year, and I was back to what I call normalcy.

00:10:55.380 I was around everybody.

00:10:56.500 We all got along, et cetera.

00:10:57.960 But every time I would come home, there would be some racist incident that involved me.

00:11:03.120 But the talk continued, but it was revisited at the age of 16 when I began driving.

00:11:10.140 And I was told by my parents, you know, look, you know, there's a possibility, you know, you'll be pulled over by the police.

00:11:17.680 And I understood now, you know, that people do judge you by the color of your skin.

00:11:22.420 By age 16, I, you know, I realized, you know, this is a real thing.

00:11:25.520 Well, I realized it right after Martin Luther King was assassinated.

00:11:28.860 I just didn't know why.

00:11:30.260 Why do people hate you when they don't know you?

00:11:32.300 But I realized it does go on.

00:11:34.480 So by the age of 16, I'm being told by my parents, you know, that the police may pull you over.

00:11:40.120 And even if you're not doing anything wrong, be polite, be respectful, keep your hands on the wheel, do exactly as they tell you.

00:11:47.220 Even if they give you a ticket and you know you were not doing whatever it is, you know, they told you you were doing, just take the ticket, sign it.

00:11:53.900 We'll take care of it.

00:11:54.840 We'll go to court.

00:11:55.420 We'll, you know, do whatever, unless, you know, you were speeding or you were running a red light or whatever.

00:12:00.520 So, you know, I had that.

00:12:03.060 And were you ever pulled over?

00:12:05.320 Oh, many times.

00:12:06.500 Really?

00:12:06.900 I still am.

00:12:08.400 I still am.

00:12:09.500 And my father was pulled over quite a number of times.

00:12:13.600 You know, we live, we were the second family to, second black family to move into our neighborhood when I was around that age.

00:12:21.340 And it was a brand new neighborhood right outside of D.C.

00:12:24.960 Because, you know, my father had, you know, worked at the State Department.

00:12:27.700 I worked for the State Department.

00:12:28.560 And, you know, he drove a Mercedes.

00:12:33.180 And the cops would pull him over in our own neighborhood thinking that he walked in and drove out.

00:12:40.180 And then, you know, when I began driving, the same thing was happening to me.

00:12:44.040 You know, I must have walked in that neighborhood and driven somebody's car out, stole a car.

00:12:48.260 Were you driving your father's Mercedes?

00:12:50.580 Did you have your own car at the time?

00:12:51.920 No, he would not let me drive his car.

00:12:54.780 Oh.

00:12:55.100 Not because he thought I was going to wreck his car, but because he knew that.

00:13:00.240 And that's another thing, you know, I didn't quite understand.

00:13:03.280 I believed him, but I sort of felt, you know, maybe he wasn't letting me drive it because he didn't want me to drive his Mercedes.

00:13:10.160 Right.

00:13:10.480 But what it was, was he knew, you know, that a young black, you know, black boy, age 16, driving around in Mercedes, just, you know, was going to draw the attention of the police.

00:13:24.020 But the kids in my neighborhood, they had fancy cars.

00:13:26.780 So what were you driving?

00:13:30.260 I was driving a Chevrolet Impala.

00:13:32.360 All right.

00:13:33.580 I'm feeling that.

00:13:35.160 Yeah, but I still got pulled over.

00:13:37.480 There's something important about that year 1968 that you're talking about, because that is also the year that America was just basically burning down.

00:13:46.860 That was the same year that MLK was shot, that Bobby Kennedy.

00:13:51.200 Right.

00:13:51.580 So I remember you told a story.

00:13:52.960 This is the documentary.

00:13:54.260 I think Accidental Courtesy is the name, right?

00:13:56.780 Yeah.

00:13:57.100 Which I've watched several times.

00:13:59.100 You told a story that you were watching, I believe, I Dream of Jeannie.

00:14:03.280 No, actually, it's another one, Bewitched.

00:14:04.900 Bewitched.

00:14:05.480 How could I get those two wrong?

00:14:06.840 They're two basically, you're watching Bewitched.

00:14:09.280 They both are beautiful women. 1.00

00:14:10.860 Yes.

00:14:11.160 Elizabeth Montgomery and Barbara Eden.

00:14:13.080 Facts.

00:14:14.000 So you were watching Bewitched, and breaking news came on.

00:14:19.840 Walter Cronkite came on and basically announced that Martin Luther King was assassinated.

00:14:25.260 And you're the one that told your father the news, correct me if I'm wrong, and he broke down crying.

00:14:32.820 And this was actually the first time that you saw your father crying.

00:14:36.620 Tell me about that moment.

00:14:39.260 I didn't understand it.

00:14:40.580 First of all, I didn't really know who Martin Luther King was at the time.

00:14:45.500 Really?

00:14:46.260 Yeah.

00:14:46.940 I spent a lot of my formative years overseas, and so we weren't having civil rights marches and all that kind of thing over there.

00:14:55.860 So, but when I, you know, it happened in the middle of my program, and usually it was something significant, you know, that everybody could relate to whenever a newscaster, you know, burst into a middle of a program.

00:15:11.620 And since I didn't know who MLK was, I didn't understand, you know, people, you know, die all the time, I didn't understand the significance of it as to why this could not wait for the 6 o'clock news.

00:15:25.480 Why did it have to, you know, burst into my program?

00:15:27.460 Why are you messing up my bewitched favorite program?

00:15:30.600 Precisely.

00:15:31.580 So, but I figured it had to be something important, and maybe I just didn't know who it was.

00:15:35.620 So I wouldn't tell my father, maybe he would know.

00:15:39.120 And as soon as I mentioned it, he was in his little office typing, and as soon as I mentioned it, his hand, I mean, his head fell into his hands.

00:15:47.280 And he said, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:15:49.720 You know, and he was like, I'm not going to know what's going on here.

00:15:52.900 And he began sobbing about it, and I just did not understand that.

00:15:56.700 I'd never, you know, I'd seen my mom cry, I'd never seen my dad cry.

00:16:00.300 But who is this person that, you know, that's making, you know, my father cry?

00:16:04.320 You know, it's not a relative, you know.

00:16:07.500 And so he began explaining all the things that MLK had done.

00:16:12.080 He had also marched with MLK.

00:16:14.920 Your father, huh?

00:16:15.920 Yes.

00:16:16.640 Wow.

00:16:17.740 And, you know, I...

00:16:20.020 So it was something going on in your head that you knew something was way off.

00:16:23.420 Your father's crying, breaking news, something is different going on.

00:16:27.460 Even at age 10, you seemed like you were very innocent at that time.

00:16:31.600 Did something change within you at that point?

00:16:35.280 No, not right then.

00:16:37.960 I just understood that, you know, this person was a very significant person.

00:16:44.160 But I wasn't feeling it, because I still didn't know.

00:16:47.320 But that evening, things began burning, you know, and a lot of violence and rioting.

00:16:54.580 And it was just crazy.

00:16:59.840 And everything changed.

00:17:01.840 And then I began feeling it, because my world changed.

00:17:06.240 As I explained a few minutes ago, all of my friends were white.

00:17:11.080 And the next day, April 5th, because he was assassinated on the 4th, we went to...

00:17:20.700 We lived in Boston initially, when we first returned.

00:17:24.200 My father was working on his master's degree at BU, Boston University.

00:17:31.980 So we lived nearby.

00:17:33.760 And we went, you know, we went down into Boston and picked up some of my friends from the first school that I went to.

00:17:41.340 The school was so bad that we had to move to the suburbs.

00:17:45.100 It was so behind.

00:17:46.660 So we moved to the suburbs for better schooling.

00:17:48.620 That's why we were in Belmont after, you know, almost weeks after I started school.

00:17:53.540 So we went and picked up some friends of mine, my little classmates from Boston, and brought them out to Belmont to stay at our home.

00:18:01.200 Because things were just too dangerous in Boston.

00:18:03.660 Buildings were burning down everywhere.

00:18:04.960 People were fighting in the streets, looting, and all kinds of craziness.

00:18:08.780 And so I saw that firsthand.

00:18:10.280 And all in the name of this new word that I had learned a couple months prior called racism.

00:18:17.360 So, you know, my world was beginning to change.

00:18:20.580 But the real changes occurred.

00:18:22.260 Because, you know, as a 10-year-old kid, you know, you have lots of friends and you play.

00:18:26.320 And you get together after school, after your homework.

00:18:28.700 You go outside and play with them, all that kind of stuff.

00:18:30.920 Well, guess what?

00:18:32.220 All of my friends being white in Belmont, some of them were no longer allowed to play with me.

00:18:38.280 Not by my parents, but by their parents. 0.92

00:18:43.180 And their parents had always been very nice to me.

00:18:45.600 I'd come over to their home.

00:18:47.960 And if they were eating, their parents would invite me in and fix me whatever their kid was eating.

00:18:52.860 And I would sit at the table, eat with them, and then we'd go outside and play.

00:18:55.720 Same thing, they came over to my house.

00:18:56.980 My mom would give them whatever I was having.

00:18:58.960 You know, and there was no, you know, color issue.

00:19:01.960 And now, all of a sudden, I'm being told when I knock on the door,

00:19:05.100 oh, you know, little Johnny can't come out.

00:19:07.380 But, you know, he's staying in the day.

00:19:10.100 You know, for no reason.

00:19:10.920 That was right after 1968, you're saying.

00:19:13.100 Like, right after.

00:19:13.940 It was the next day.

00:19:14.740 The next day.

00:19:15.840 The next day.

00:19:16.220 Wow.

00:19:17.040 Okay.

00:19:17.840 And then, half an hour later, I'd see the guy down at the park.

00:19:21.700 And I'd be like, I thought you couldn't come out.

00:19:24.780 No, my mom doesn't want me playing with him anymore.

00:19:27.840 The kid straight up told you that?

00:19:29.840 Yeah.

00:19:30.500 Wow.

00:19:30.800 And I'd say, why?

00:19:33.160 I don't know.

00:19:34.840 She just doesn't.

00:19:36.620 The kid didn't even know.

00:19:37.800 Wow.

00:19:38.180 Right.

00:19:38.380 He didn't know.

00:19:38.920 Okay.

00:19:39.660 In retrospect, I understand it.

00:19:42.720 You know, because we lived in a duplex.

00:19:45.820 The landlady lived on, you know, downstairs, and we lived upstairs.

00:19:49.780 And there were two front doors right on the front of the house.

00:19:52.120 Hers and ours.

00:19:52.940 Ours went straight upstairs.

00:19:54.400 We had all that space there.

00:19:55.400 Now, at the age of 10, you know, I thought of her as an old lady.

00:20:01.040 I don't know how old she was.

00:20:02.280 She may have been 30. 0.99

00:20:05.480 I just turned 40, Daryl.

00:20:06.900 You're making me feel horrible.

00:20:08.520 Well, yeah.

00:20:08.840 We got to figure, you know, at age 10, you'd be ancient at 40.

00:20:14.580 So, you know, but, you know, she was probably my parents' age, maybe a little bit older.

00:20:20.420 You know, young by today's standards, you know, in any regard.

00:20:23.380 But at age 10, you know, anybody over 15 was probably old.

00:20:28.720 Anyway, she owned the house. 0.99

00:20:31.540 And we had a big porch.

00:20:33.980 And sometimes my friends and I would play on the porch, set up little army soldiers or whatever that we did.

00:20:39.760 There was no line going down the center of the porch that designated my side and her side.

00:20:45.920 And she was super nice.

00:20:47.960 If she made cookies, she always bring us some, give it to me and my friends on the porch or whatever. 0.99

00:20:51.980 Well, guess what?

00:20:53.600 Just the next day or the day after, whatever, you know, the following day, we were playing on the porch.

00:20:59.160 And she came out and she said, Daryl, I'd rather you play on your side of the porch.

00:21:03.460 And then she said, I'd rather you all not play on the porch at all.

00:21:07.320 Why don't you go inside?

00:21:08.440 This is a white lady. 1.00

00:21:09.840 This is the white lady. 1.00

00:21:10.600 And this was the person that I knew as a nice white lady. 1.00

00:21:16.220 I mean, she was always nice to us.

00:21:18.200 And now, why is this lady being so mean? 1.00

00:21:21.600 I didn't know there was a side to the porch.

00:21:23.820 She said, I'd rather you play on your side.

00:21:26.900 I didn't know there was a side.

00:21:27.900 I mean, the whole time I'd been there, I'd been playing all over the porch.

00:21:31.280 And now, all of a sudden, the porch has a side.

00:21:33.140 Where is this invisible line that I'm not seeing?

00:21:36.060 And then she's telling me not to play on the porch.

00:21:39.360 I need to play inside.

00:21:41.540 You know, what's going on here?

00:21:43.100 I didn't get it.

00:21:44.160 In retrospect, of course, I get it now.

00:21:46.460 Because racial tension was so high.

00:21:51.080 And you've got to understand that era.

00:21:52.740 This is in the middle of the civil rights movement.

00:21:55.800 Martin Luther King's home was getting bombed, you know, by the Klan.

00:21:59.500 All kinds of things were happening.

00:22:00.920 And Andrew Everett's been assassinated, on and on and on.

00:22:04.580 And here, this lady is sending me inside my house who used to be so nice. 1.00

00:22:10.980 So, in retrospect, she was trying to protect me and my family, as well as her and her property.

00:22:19.060 Because, you know, we were in an all-white neighborhood. 0.99

00:22:22.000 And suppose, you know, somebody driving by realized, oh, this white lady is renting to a black family. 1.00

00:22:27.980 And maybe we should come burn a cross in her yard. 0.99

00:22:31.660 If you remember.

00:22:33.040 Was the KKK prevalent in Boston at that time?

00:22:36.600 Absolutely.

00:22:37.540 Wow.

00:22:38.540 So, even in the Northeast, this isn't just a Southern thing, you're saying?

00:22:42.160 No, no, no, no, it's not.

00:22:43.780 It was not.

00:22:45.620 And if you remember Viola Luizzo, Viola Luizzo was a white lady who, you know, participated in our civil rights back in the 60s. 0.96

00:22:55.940 And she was driving a black civil rights activist to go to a march. 0.96

00:23:02.780 And the Klan happened to see her on the highway as they were driving there to protest the march or whatever. 0.50

00:23:08.500 And while she was driving, they pulled up alongside her car and shot her in the face.

00:23:14.100 Murdered her right there on the highway.

00:23:17.400 You know, the car ran.

00:23:18.280 You know, she was shot dead while she was driving.

00:23:20.980 And, of course, the car veered off the road and crashed. 0.57

00:23:23.920 The black guy survived.

00:23:26.420 He was in the passenger seat.

00:23:28.000 But she did not. 0.89

00:23:29.440 And all because she had a black man, she was a white woman, you know, driving a black man around. 1.00

00:23:36.540 Now, you know, in later years, like just back, let's say, 1992 or 3, when I was interviewing this one Klan leader,

00:23:48.660 shortly after I interviewed him, he went to prison for he and one of his Klansmen, he pulled up to a stoplight in his town here in Maryland.

00:24:00.940 And at the stoplight, right in the main intersection of town, there was a vehicle to the right, had a black driver and a white woman in the passenger seat.

00:24:11.420 And he and the Klansmen, the Klansmen got out, dragged him out of the truck and beat him within inches of his life.

00:24:18.320 They left him in the street for dead, thinking he was dead, and drove off in front of 11 witnesses.

00:24:23.480 This is in 1992.

00:24:25.540 92, yeah.

00:24:26.400 Is this right around the time of the OJ trial or is that pre that?

00:24:30.260 No.

00:24:30.760 That was 94.

00:24:32.320 94, right.

00:24:32.980 Right, right.

00:24:34.160 Wow.

00:24:35.180 Some things haven't changed.

00:24:36.400 Now, how would you compare what was going on then?

00:24:39.580 Right. 0.92

00:24:39.960 I mean, MLK, Bobby Kennedy, everything you just talked about, someone just pulling up to a white woman just because she's driving with a black man shooting them. 0.61

00:24:50.820 How would you compare that to today with the racial tensions today?

00:24:54.140 Is it even comparable or is there some similarities?

00:24:57.600 There are.

00:24:58.320 Yeah, there are many, many similarities.

00:25:00.020 You know, these attitudes, you know, prevail because people don't want change.

00:25:05.500 People are creatures of habit, you know, human beings are.

00:25:09.200 And when they see this, they feel that their landscape, their way of life is being eroded, if you will.

00:25:18.540 Take, again, you know, this is a little bit musically before your time.

00:25:23.800 You take somebody like Elvis Presley.

00:25:26.480 What was it that people did not like about him?

00:25:30.540 It was the white establishment that did not like him at the time.

00:25:35.300 The black establishment embraced him because Elvis was doing black music.

00:25:42.060 And but then when he hit the end, but here's what happened.

00:25:45.300 White kids, they were tired of hearing their parents' music. 0.87

00:25:49.300 They wanted something new that they could call their own.

00:25:52.420 And they found it in Elvis.

00:25:55.080 He was different.

00:25:56.120 He was different for white people. 0.53

00:25:57.920 He wasn't different for black people. 1.00

00:25:59.560 We've been doing that music all along.

00:26:01.340 Right.

00:26:01.540 Right.

00:26:02.060 And Elvis had gravitated towards it.

00:26:04.600 He was singing blues.

00:26:05.700 He was dancing around like a black guy, wiggling his hips and knocking his knees, et cetera. 1.00

00:26:10.120 That was totally different for white people. 0.97

00:26:12.760 And white kids loved it. 0.98

00:26:14.320 White parents hated it.

00:26:15.560 You know, now, of course, over time that evolved, he became, they gave him the title of king of rock and roll and all that sort of thing.

00:26:23.460 But initially, they did not like him at all because he was a sub. 0.98

00:26:27.100 He was a race traitor. 0.93

00:26:28.040 He, you know, he was he was doing something that was not, you know, our culture. 0.99

00:26:32.900 It was despicable. 0.93

00:26:33.980 It was corrupting white youth. 0.89

00:26:35.500 Daryl, let's stay right there and talk a little bit deeper about music.

00:26:39.900 Right.

00:26:40.260 So, you know, I would I would call music the great connector.

00:26:44.140 You actually said that everyone likes music, even the KKK.

00:26:48.640 That's right.

00:26:50.060 You play blues, rock and roll, jazz, country.

00:26:53.860 You've actually said if you're paying, I'm playing.

00:26:56.660 I'm playing.

00:26:57.280 I love that.

00:26:57.960 I love that.

00:26:58.720 You know, you said you wanted to be a diplomat as a kid when you were growing up.

00:27:03.660 You know, this is obviously, you know, in your in your adolescent years, high school, maybe going into college.

00:27:09.060 You said you perhaps wanted to be a diplomat, an espionage agent, a computer programmer.

00:27:15.600 But then you saw a rock concert that featured you'd mentioned Elvis and the legendary Chuck Berry, the original king of rock and roll.

00:27:24.660 Right.

00:27:24.980 That's right.

00:27:25.500 So what happened in that rock concert and what sparked in your mind, you know, the path that you set on in the music career?

00:27:33.660 I just saw how happy people were.

00:27:38.380 It was amazing.

00:27:40.000 People who would never meet the person on stage, not even come close.

00:27:46.880 But yet that individual up there just had total command of 20,000 people, all cheering, et cetera.

00:27:56.360 They all were happy, all colors, all kinds of people, all ages.

00:28:02.160 I thought, you know, wow, that, you know, that person is touching people that he will never meet.

00:28:08.440 I thought, you know, that's what I want to do.

00:28:10.220 I want to make people happy.

00:28:11.180 And music was a medium to do that.

00:28:15.380 And that particular kind of music seemed, you know, was very energized, you know, that rock and roll stuff.

00:28:24.180 So I just thought I'm going to be a rock and roll artist.

00:28:27.700 You knew.

00:28:28.400 From your first concert, you're like, I got to do this.

00:28:31.560 Well, I knew from seeing them on TV.

00:28:34.320 And then I had to go see them in person.

00:28:37.200 You know, see, you know, it's just real.

00:28:38.600 Who was at that concert?

00:28:39.920 Who was playing at that concert you went to?

00:28:41.480 Where and when was it?

00:28:42.740 The first rock and roll concert I went to was Chubby Checker, Lloyd Price, and some other people.

00:28:49.820 And I saw the same thing.

00:28:51.460 And now, you know, of course, I knew who Elvis and Chuck Berry were.

00:28:55.000 But I had not seen them at that point.

00:28:57.480 Chubby Checker was famous for the twist.

00:28:59.880 Absolutely, yeah.

00:29:01.020 Yeah, and I learned how to dance when it came out.

00:29:03.060 You got a little twist in you still?

00:29:04.680 You got a little twist in you?

00:29:05.540 Absolutely.

00:29:06.140 Let me see a little twist.

00:29:07.660 Can I see a little twist?

00:29:10.880 Love that.

00:29:11.560 The sock hop, the twist.

00:29:12.800 Yeah.

00:29:13.400 Love that.

00:29:13.860 So I saw Elvis first.

00:29:16.380 March 10th, 1973, in Roanoke, Virginia.

00:29:20.860 That was my first Elvis concert.

00:29:22.880 1973 Elvis.

00:29:25.060 Yep, yep.

00:29:25.360 And then the next month, April, I saw Chuck Berry.

00:29:30.520 Now, were you playing music at that time?

00:29:32.580 No, not only on the record player.

00:29:35.100 Wow.

00:29:36.060 So what's the first instrument that you picked up that set on this Life Passion of yours?

00:29:41.140 It was a piano.

00:29:42.920 But back then, they didn't really have portable pianos, you know, so you can go to a gym or whatever.

00:29:48.200 Yeah.

00:29:48.360 If there was a piano there already, you know, you were out of luck, you know, now you have

00:29:52.740 keyboards you carry under your arm, you know, whatever.

00:29:55.180 But so what I did was, you know, Elvis played guitar, Chuck Berry played guitar, so I got a

00:30:01.520 guitar.

00:30:02.500 And I transferred everything that I had taught myself or had been taught on the piano by my

00:30:08.200 friends onto the guitar.

00:30:09.900 So to this day, I still kind of played guitar, like you played piano.

00:30:15.620 And, you know, guitar is easier to carry, so I was able to go to my friends' homes or

00:30:20.320 open mic jam session or whatever, like to take the guitar and play.

00:30:24.680 And that's what?

00:30:26.460 That was the first time you started playing right there?

00:30:28.860 And then?

00:30:29.820 Yeah, but I just started out with, you know, with playing the instrument.

00:30:33.200 I wasn't very good.

00:30:35.000 So I sang.

00:30:36.320 I started out singing.

00:30:37.160 And then, you know, so you have this baritone, like almost like a Barry White voice going

00:30:43.680 on.

00:30:43.920 Have you ever heard that before?

00:30:45.620 Oh, yeah.

00:30:46.260 Oh, yeah, man.

00:30:49.260 But, you know, I didn't always have that.

00:30:52.020 I was a tenor back then.

00:30:54.380 Yeah, I can't hit those notes now.

00:30:56.460 Gotcha.

00:30:57.260 But yeah, you'd be doing some sweet love songs.

00:31:00.080 Like if you were in a modern day R&B band, like if you were in Boyz II Men, you would be

00:31:05.440 that guy that'd be like, hey, girl, you know, you and I, you would have deserved so much

00:31:10.200 better.

00:31:10.520 That would be you in today's music.

00:31:11.900 Well, you know, I mean, you mentioned Barry White.

00:31:14.040 Yeah.

00:31:14.220 And I've heard that a lot.

00:31:15.980 And that depends upon the age of the person hearing me.

00:31:18.220 Yeah.

00:31:18.460 You know, the older people and hearing the style of music, you know, that I do, they

00:31:23.400 would say Brooke Benton. 0.87

00:31:24.960 Hmm.

00:31:26.060 I don't know Brooke Benton. 0.99

00:31:27.140 I got to read up.

00:31:27.840 So you got to check him out.

00:31:28.620 I got to check him out.

00:31:29.460 Brooke Benton.

00:31:30.020 Let me write that down.

00:31:31.500 We're learning things here today.

00:31:32.860 Write down a song called Lie to Me, Brooke Benton.

00:31:38.100 Lie to me.

00:31:39.480 All right.

00:31:39.940 Cool.

00:31:40.280 Also check out Snap Your Fingers, Joe Henderson.

00:31:43.400 Joe Henderson.

00:31:44.860 Yeah.

00:31:45.200 Snap Your Fingers.

00:31:45.900 I want our audience to check this out.

00:31:47.780 Joe Henderson, Snap Your Fingers.

00:31:50.120 Uh-huh.

00:31:52.420 And Brooke Benton. 0.82

00:31:53.040 And Brooke Benton. 0.82

00:31:54.160 Lie to me.

00:31:54.980 Amazing.

00:31:56.000 So do you have a favorite musician of all time?

00:31:58.640 Because you had mentioned you had worked with Chuck Berry for 30 plus years.

00:32:03.300 Yes.

00:32:03.980 Chuck Berry, Johnny B. Goode.

00:32:05.860 You know, what else?

00:32:07.900 Who else or what else?

00:32:09.380 Both.

00:32:09.920 What were your favorite songs from Chuck Berry?

00:32:12.380 What did you play with him?

00:32:13.500 And what other artists?

00:32:14.280 I played all his hits with him.

00:32:17.260 Johnny B. Goode, Roll Over, Beethoven, Sweet Little 16, Nadine, Maybelline, Carol, School

00:32:22.660 Days.

00:32:23.520 All of them.

00:32:24.240 Amazing.

00:32:24.620 Too much monkey business.

00:32:25.920 Amazing.

00:32:26.380 But, you know, Johnny B. Goode is my favorite song from Chuck.

00:32:30.100 It's my favorite song of all time.

00:32:32.300 Also like Little Richard's.

00:32:33.880 I like anything he did.

00:32:35.280 But my favorite from Little Richard would be Lucille.

00:32:37.900 Good Godly Miss Molly. 0.50

00:32:39.020 I love Jailhouse Rock by Elvis.

00:32:42.360 Hard-headed woman. 1.00

00:32:43.340 When you saw the scene, you've seen, I assume, Back to the Future when Michael J. Fox did Johnny

00:32:47.540 B. Goode.

00:32:48.540 You know, I was a kid when that movie came out.

00:32:50.360 That melted me.

00:32:51.500 I love that.

00:32:52.240 Anytime that movie comes on, I mean, do you see that scene?

00:32:55.620 That must have, like, what did that do to you when Michael J. Fox did that?

00:32:59.840 It was a great scene.

00:33:00.900 It was a great, and it's a scene that everybody remembers from that movie.

00:33:04.320 Of course.

00:33:05.380 You know?

00:33:05.700 Of course.

00:33:06.620 Let me ask you your thoughts.

00:33:07.500 And that's the power of that Chuck Berry rock and roll.

00:33:11.160 Of course.

00:33:12.260 You know, it only took up a couple minutes in the movie, but it is the most memorable scene

00:33:16.580 of the movie.

00:33:17.520 And the whole movie was great, but that is the scene that sticks out.

00:33:20.860 Just like Pulp Fiction.

00:33:22.900 Remember that movie?

00:33:23.700 Of course.

00:33:24.300 Travolta.

00:33:25.180 Yeah, exactly.

00:33:26.220 And what song were they playing?

00:33:28.720 That was Chuck Berry.

00:33:30.660 Again, Chuck Berry.

00:33:31.740 You Never Can Tell.

00:33:32.580 C'est La Vie.

00:33:33.140 Yeah, C'est La, exactly.

00:33:35.300 It's that Chuck Berry music that jumps out at you.

00:33:38.220 Well, you had once said that Chuck Berry, perhaps, was the greatest civil rights hero

00:33:43.680 in America.

00:33:44.820 I want to say the greatest, but was a civil rights hero because because of him, white people 0.98

00:33:50.640 or black people, white kids, black kids had danced together for the first time in American

00:33:56.100 history.

00:33:57.280 Is that right?

00:33:58.060 Because of the music he created.

00:34:00.740 Right.

00:34:00.860 And the other artists played it as well, but they would not be playing it had it not

00:34:05.380 been for him creating it.

00:34:06.720 Of course.

00:34:07.880 Elvis Presley, Jerry Lee Lewis, Bill Haley and the Comics, Carl Perkins, Buddy Holly,

00:34:13.900 all these people, as well as Little Richard, Bo Diddley, Fast Domino, Arnon, Chuck created

00:34:19.520 that music.

00:34:20.160 He took Boogie Woogie.

00:34:21.100 And before rock and roll, things swung.

00:34:26.960 Swing music, yeah.

00:34:30.660 That was the group for swing.

00:34:32.320 Right.

00:34:32.480 Rock and roll was boom, boom, bop, boom, bop, boom, bop, boom, bop, you know, that back

00:34:36.500 beat, right?

00:34:37.700 You got me moving over here, Daryl.

00:34:39.220 Yeah.

00:34:40.040 So he took that swing music and the blues and country and put a backbeat on it, that

00:34:45.380 Boogie Woogie with a backbeat.

00:34:46.840 Right.

00:34:47.280 That became rock and roll.

00:34:48.720 And in Back to the Future, there's a scene when Michael J. Fox is playing, and I forget

00:34:55.120 the guy's name, but he says, you know that new sound you're looking for?

00:34:58.960 Well, get a listen to this.

00:35:00.420 Boom.

00:35:00.740 And he puts it in the guy.

00:35:01.520 Oh, wow.

00:35:02.560 That's what that new sound was.

00:35:04.120 That's quarter screen.

00:35:04.860 And Michael J. Fox said, you might not be ready for this, but your kids are going to

00:35:09.420 love it.

00:35:10.360 Right.

00:35:10.960 Exactly.

00:35:11.580 You know, it's prophetic, right?

00:35:13.320 Right.

00:35:13.600 And just like Chuck Berry wrote a song called Rock and Roll Music, and everybody's covered

00:35:18.660 it.

00:35:18.760 Everybody loves the rock and roll music.

00:35:22.240 Right.

00:35:22.820 Any old time you choose it.

00:35:23.980 When you use it, it's got a what?

00:35:27.340 It's got a backbeat, you can't lose it.

00:35:31.540 You got a backbeat.

00:35:32.400 Okay.

00:35:32.720 All right.

00:35:32.960 I just failed that test, but I know the song.

00:35:35.360 Yeah.

00:35:35.880 Respect.

00:35:36.040 So listen to rock and roll music, Chuck Berry.

00:35:37.800 I love that.

00:35:38.200 Is that a backbeat you can't lose?

00:35:39.920 You got a backbeat.

00:35:40.540 That's what he's talking about.

00:35:43.640 That's the backbeat.

00:35:45.260 Amazing.

00:35:46.040 Last question on music before we move on to, you know, more serious topics.

00:35:51.080 My favorite artist, you know, I love all sorts of music.

00:35:54.900 I love Sinatra.

00:35:55.820 I love hip hop today.

00:35:57.020 I love Hall and Oates.

00:35:58.840 I love, you know, Johnny B. Goode, all that.

00:36:01.540 What are your thoughts on Jackie Wilson?

00:36:04.660 Oh, man.

00:36:05.340 One of the greatest singers of all time.

00:36:08.340 Elvis loved him.

00:36:09.220 And in fact, in Las Vegas, he was known as the Black Elvis, even though he was doing that before Elvis.

00:36:13.760 Right.

00:36:14.080 So I learned about Jackie Wilson.

00:36:17.040 I love old movies.

00:36:17.900 I learned about Jackie Wilson.

00:36:19.920 And for our audience that doesn't know who he is, there was a famous scene in Coming to America, Eddie Murphy, where he's shouting from the rooftops,

00:36:27.940 to be loved, to be loved, oh, what a feeling, to be loved.

00:36:32.880 And I remember, like, who is that singer?

00:36:36.700 Who is that person?

00:36:37.440 I found out it was Jackie Wilson.

00:36:39.140 And for some reason, he's not as famous as Elvis, as Chuck Berry, as James Brown.

00:36:47.660 Why is that?

00:36:48.540 Because he has so many amazing songs.

00:36:51.220 It's not for some reason.

00:36:53.220 There's a reason why.

00:36:54.180 Tell me why.

00:36:54.640 The reason is racism. 0.95

00:36:57.120 You know, you only let a few Black people slip through the cracks. 0.95

00:37:00.620 You don't want too many of them.

00:37:02.600 Jackie Wilson was a good-looking Black guy.

00:37:05.300 Yep.

00:37:06.040 He had, you know, women were crazy over him. 0.95

00:37:10.220 Right. 0.95

00:37:10.840 And white women were not immune to that. 1.00

00:37:14.360 You know, what's good-looking is good-looking.

00:37:16.980 What sounds good, sounds good, regardless of color.

00:37:20.520 And, you know, that was a big concern back then.

00:37:24.920 Little Richard got away with it because Little Richard was gay. 0.98

00:37:28.700 So people were not, you know, so worried about their women going after, you know, this gay man.

00:37:33.840 All right.

00:37:34.280 But, you know, you think about it, think about it like this also.

00:37:37.440 When, you know, when I was coming up, there were no Black idols on TV.

00:37:43.780 I, you know, who did I have to relate to?

00:37:46.000 I had to relate to little Opie Taylor in Mayberry.

00:37:50.140 You know, Andy Griffithship.

00:37:51.200 And Opie didn't have any Black friends.

00:37:53.240 I watched Leave it to Beaver.

00:37:55.160 Little Beaver Cleaver and Wally Cleaver, they didn't have any Black friends.

00:37:58.520 I watched Lost in Space.

00:38:00.400 You know, Space Family Robinson with their crazy robot.

00:38:03.300 You know, they went all over the universe.

00:38:05.580 He went to other universes. 0.94

00:38:06.920 And no Black people. 1.00

00:38:08.220 No Black people. 1.00

00:38:08.880 They saw green people. 1.00

00:38:11.780 Ridiculous. 0.99

00:38:12.500 With forearms. 1.00

00:38:13.820 Freaking ridiculous. 0.99

00:38:15.160 They saw everybody. 1.00

00:38:15.680 They're seeing aliens, but not Black people. 0.99

00:38:17.820 You know how freaking absurd that is? 0.99

00:38:20.400 By today's standards. 0.91

00:38:21.720 Yes.

00:38:22.040 But that's what I had to grow up with.

00:38:24.740 All right?

00:38:25.220 So then, the first, and there were no, of course, there were no Black superheroes. 0.61

00:38:31.300 That's why it was such a big thing that this person who just died.

00:38:36.280 Black Panther, of course.

00:38:37.400 Chadwick Boseman, of course.

00:38:39.120 Exactly, you know?

00:38:40.120 Yes.

00:38:40.560 So, I mean, who were my heroes back then?

00:38:42.840 Batman, Superman, Aquaman, you know, Wonder Woman.

00:38:47.260 You know, all these people.

00:38:48.220 But who, what were they?

00:38:49.380 They all were white, right? 0.94

00:38:50.960 So, the, I mean, you had a couple, most shows that featured any Black people, they were in 0.98

00:38:58.120 a subservient role as a butler, you know, a maid, a chauffeur, you know, a pimp, a drug 0.94

00:39:04.360 dealer in the movies or whatever.

00:39:06.000 But then, you know, when we got some better roles, they were never top, you know, they're

00:39:11.560 always secondary.

00:39:13.540 So, let's say, I Spy, with Bill Cosby and Robert Cook.

00:39:18.060 They were partners in that TV series.

00:39:20.740 But one was not higher than the other.

00:39:23.480 Then we saw Lieutenant Uhura in the original Star Trek with William Shatner.

00:39:28.900 And that was the first interracial kiss on TV.

00:39:31.820 What year was that?

00:39:33.240 I think 1969.

00:39:35.260 So, all throughout the 60s, there's nothing like that going on.

00:39:38.840 Exactly.

00:39:39.740 So, into the 70s.

00:39:41.080 When did Shaft come out?

00:39:43.560 Shaft came out, I think, maybe in the late 70s.

00:39:46.340 Late 70s.

00:39:46.960 Maybe mid to late 70s.

00:39:49.080 So, who was the first, you know, you said there was only white superheroes.

00:39:53.200 Who was the first black person you saw on TV?

00:39:55.380 You're like, all right, I like that guy.

00:39:57.120 Or gal. 0.72

00:39:57.660 Yeah, okay.

00:39:58.400 Well, he was a hero.

00:40:00.860 He was a superhero with superpowers.

00:40:03.800 But he was, you know, a badass.

00:40:06.300 That was Mr. T.

00:40:07.960 Mr. T?

00:40:09.280 Yeah.

00:40:09.780 Of course, Mr. T.

00:40:10.740 But when was that?

00:40:12.100 That was on the A-Team.

00:40:13.240 What was that?

00:40:13.540 But that was not until the early 80s, though, right?

00:40:15.840 Exactly.

00:40:16.480 Exactly.

00:40:16.720 It took up until the early 80s until a superhero badass dude showed up on the scene, Mr. T.

00:40:22.060 Right.

00:40:22.660 Exactly.

00:40:23.340 And what did they pick for that? 1.00

00:40:28.160 They picked the ugliest black guy they could find. 1.00

00:40:32.640 Mr. T. 0.99

00:40:33.640 Yeah.

00:40:34.260 Gold chains galore.

00:40:36.100 Yeah.

00:40:36.480 And his mohawk.

00:40:38.200 Of course.

00:40:38.860 They're going to put a Denzel Washington or a Billy Dee Williams or some, you know, good-looking

00:40:43.980 black guy up there.

00:40:45.580 Because, again, that would attract, you know, the females. 0.96

00:40:49.140 And so, you know, what female in their right mind is going to be attracted to Mr. T?

00:40:53.680 Mr. T is not going to be happy when he sees this, Daryl.

00:40:56.080 Let me tell you something.

00:40:57.540 Well, I'll tell you what.

00:40:58.240 You know, I met him one time and I was not very impressed.

00:41:01.340 But, you know, that's a different story.

00:41:02.760 All right.

00:41:03.320 No worries.

00:41:03.820 So, no, I appreciate it.

00:41:06.280 We're going all over the place here with music and everything.

00:41:09.280 To kind of get back into things, you know, your parents were very leery of your ability

00:41:14.680 to make a living being a musician.

00:41:17.900 And for good reason.

00:41:19.100 Right.

00:41:19.500 So, tell me about that.

00:41:20.360 Did you ever have any doubts?

00:41:21.580 Like, what are your thoughts on the financial side of things, being a musician?

00:41:26.540 I never have any doubts about anything that I do.

00:41:29.600 Wow.

00:41:30.000 Not because I'm an egotist, but because my parents instilled that confidence in me.

00:41:36.600 And maybe that was a mistake on their part.

00:41:39.320 You know, they told me I could be anything I wanted to be.

00:41:41.660 And now, so this is what I want to be.

00:41:43.240 Well, now why are you telling me I can't be it?

00:41:45.300 It's too late.

00:41:46.320 You know, you know.

00:41:46.900 You've already brought me up this way.

00:41:48.440 You can't put this back into the can.

00:41:51.740 The bell has been rung.

00:41:52.940 The bell has been rung.

00:41:53.440 You cannot unring the bell.

00:41:54.140 Gotcha.

00:41:55.240 Amazing.

00:41:56.320 So, can we stay on this financial topic for a second before we get into the KKK? 0.52

00:42:02.480 You know, I host another show here on Valuetainment, on Valuetainment Economics, where I'm all about encouraging people to save that money.

00:42:11.780 So, basically, make your money, save it, be financially smart.

00:42:15.600 That's what I'm all about.

00:42:19.120 And it's no secret that, you know, more black people live in poverty, more black kids live in poverty than any other race. 0.96

00:42:26.360 Black wealth is far below white wealth. 0.98

00:42:28.360 Black home ownership is far below, you know, whites. 1.00

00:42:32.560 Education, black-owned businesses is something that needs to be improved.

00:42:36.120 What are your thoughts on the economic empowerment that blacks need to improve upon in America today?

00:42:42.180 Well, you just hit the nail right on the head.

00:42:44.560 Everything you said is 100% true.

00:42:48.200 And two things, you know, are affecting it.

00:42:52.960 Both we can change.

00:42:54.440 One a little easier than the other.

00:42:56.920 One is the racism, of course, that impacts, you know, minorities, especially minorities of color and black people.

00:43:06.340 And the other is education.

00:43:08.260 You know, we can change.

00:43:11.260 You know, we can self-educate.

00:43:13.600 And we can seek out better education.

00:43:17.180 Because in the inner city, we score very, very low on SAT scores, which is one of the things that the Klan always points out to me. 0.96

00:43:26.660 When they, you know, want to put down black people's intelligence to say, you know, we're not as smart as white people. 0.64

00:43:35.300 You know, they say we're prone to crime. 0.98

00:43:37.260 And they evidenced that by the higher number of blacks in prisons than white people. 0.88

00:43:43.400 And that is true.

00:43:44.580 But, of course, it's not so much that we're prone to crime.

00:43:48.420 It's so much that there is an imbalance of our judicial system as well.

00:43:52.080 And, plus, as you point out, the poverty, there are poor white people as well who are in prison, but plenty of black people because they cannot afford adequate legal representation.

00:44:02.920 And so they end up taking a plea deal of something they didn't even do.

00:44:06.040 And now they're stuck there. 0.99

00:44:08.620 And then they say, you know, that black people are born with a smaller brain than white people. 0.99

00:44:13.360 And the larger the brain, the more room for capacity of intelligence. 0.99

00:44:18.080 You know, that's their line of thinking. 0.90

00:44:20.100 And they evidenced that by the low SAT scores that black kids, students have. 1.00

00:44:25.820 Of course, they're not realizing that the school systems in the inner city are not as good as the school systems in the suburb, which is why when we moved to Boston, it was terrible, terrible.

00:44:37.300 So within a couple weeks, we moved up to the suburbs so I could give a good education.

00:44:42.260 But I can tell you this.

00:44:43.500 It's not because somebody is black that they're not intelligent or don't have the higher SAT scores. 0.97

00:44:50.100 Because when black kids are going to school in the suburbs, their scores are just as high, if not higher, than white kids. 0.95

00:44:57.340 And when white kids go to school in the inner city, guess what? 0.97

00:45:00.360 Their SAT scores are also low.

00:45:02.360 It's the quality of education, not the color of skin.

00:45:05.860 Of course, it's the environment that you grew up in, right?

00:45:08.900 Precisely.

00:45:09.800 So we need to focus more on getting better education because racism is what impacts us.

00:45:19.660 You know, does not try to let us go to the better schools.

00:45:22.540 You know, we're not bringing down the standards.

00:45:25.760 You know, you put us, you give us the same quality of education that you give everybody else, we will excel.

00:45:30.900 So, respect.

00:45:32.840 So, I have a whole list of questions on the KKK.

00:45:36.340 Obviously, that's something that you specialize in.

00:45:39.960 And before we get to that, let's just stay right here on black Americans. 0.98

00:45:44.200 You know, you had actually some very contentious conversations with a handful of black people. 1.00

00:45:51.920 And this is within the documentary, An Accidental Courtesy.

00:45:54.640 If you guys have not seen it, please check this out.

00:45:56.880 It's incredible.

00:45:57.500 A couple of young guys.

00:45:59.020 It was an older guy.

00:46:00.900 And I think you were in a bar or a restaurant.

00:46:04.000 You were sitting at a table.

00:46:05.760 And these guys would not shake your hand.

00:46:08.500 They walked off on you.

00:46:09.800 They yelled at you. 0.97

00:46:11.480 Why are black people so angry towards you? 1.00

00:46:16.180 Those particular ones?

00:46:17.500 Because I also have a lot of black supporters.

00:46:19.320 Clearly.

00:46:19.940 Clearly, you have a lot of supporters.

00:46:21.600 White, black, even green Martians can understand what you're bringing to the table here.

00:46:26.140 Exactly. 1.00

00:46:26.600 Because ignorance.

00:46:29.820 Ignorance, you know, not being able to get out and about and explore different people and find other ways of combating racism.

00:46:39.120 And here's the thing.

00:46:43.160 You were dealing in that particular scene, which took up about eight or nine minutes in the movie.

00:46:48.840 Right.

00:46:49.180 That scene actually, actually went on for just over an hour.

00:46:53.860 But, of course, we couldn't include the whole hour of it.

00:46:56.700 It almost became physical.

00:46:58.800 And, you know, that's how contentious it was.

00:47:01.460 Who did it almost become physical with?

00:47:04.440 Myself and the three people.

00:47:06.740 The two young guys and the older guys.

00:47:07.780 The two young guys as well as the older guy?

00:47:09.920 Because one of the guys said, we're about the same age, buddy.

00:47:12.100 You know?

00:47:12.720 And then there was the two younger guys who felt like you were out of touch or something.

00:47:15.640 They all did.

00:47:17.240 They all did.

00:47:18.280 And because they had not been exposed to the things that they had been exposed to, their knowledge was very limited.

00:47:23.520 But I can tell you this.

00:47:24.800 They were the Baltimore chapter of Black Lives Matter.

00:47:28.300 And I don't want to paint a broad brush because Black Lives Matter is not an organization.

00:47:34.560 It's a movement.

00:47:35.220 And there are many, many, over 90 factions across the country of this movement.

00:47:42.300 And they each are individual. 0.95

00:47:44.000 Some are comprised of black supremacists.

00:47:46.340 Some are comprised of predominantly white people.

00:47:49.120 Some are comprised of black and white.

00:47:51.420 Some have an agenda of aggression.

00:47:54.080 Others have an agenda, hey, let's sit down and try to work this out and drop some legal bills and pass, et cetera. 0.96

00:48:00.780 So you have all different matters.

00:48:02.680 There are about five or six chapters across the country that have contacted me and said, hey, do you give workshops?

00:48:10.720 Can you teach us how to do what you do?

00:48:12.580 And then there are other chapters who simply just rip me a new one because, you know, they can't stand me.

00:48:17.080 Because I'm sitting down talking with the enemy.

00:48:19.360 I'm talking with the oppressors and things like that.

00:48:21.480 I'm treating them with respect.

00:48:23.440 The fact that I treat them with respect, I treat anybody with respect, okay, until they put their hands on me.

00:48:28.420 Then it's a whole new ballgame.

00:48:29.940 But while, you know, people have, we have to respect someone's right to say what they want to say.

00:48:37.080 We don't have to respect what they say.

00:48:39.580 But let's respect their right to say it.

00:48:41.760 Because if you want to be heard, then you have to hear the other people, too.

00:48:46.840 You don't have to agree with them, but you must give them a chance to voice their opinions.

00:48:50.700 And that's what I do.

00:48:52.660 Because once they're heard, and I allow them to be heard rather than shut them down and push back, then when they are heard, their wall comes down.

00:49:02.840 And they feel compelled now.

00:49:04.480 Hey, this guy, my enemy, let me say my piece, even though I'm insulting him to his face.

00:49:09.700 So now their wall is down, and they reciprocate and allow me to say my piece.

00:49:14.860 When I say my piece, they're hearing me because their defense mechanism is down, you know?

00:49:20.620 But when it's up, you can talk all you want.

00:49:22.920 It's just, you know, they're like this.

00:49:24.180 It's just a brick wall.

00:49:25.820 So I allow them to speak in that space.

00:49:28.500 And then they allow me to be heard.

00:49:31.020 And that's when they go home and think about what I've said.

00:49:34.360 And it works on them.

00:49:36.120 And over time, they realize, you know what?

00:49:37.700 I need to change my direction.

00:49:39.500 That's how people change.

00:49:41.000 You know, you can legislate all day long.

00:49:42.960 You can legislate and compel somebody's behavior.

00:49:45.960 But you cannot legislate somebody's feelings.

00:49:49.640 Well said.

00:49:50.540 Amazing.

00:49:51.480 Just like, you know, the bus boycott, right?

00:49:54.280 White people did not want us in the front of the bus.

00:49:57.000 You know, when the law changed, you know, that we could sit wherever we wanted to sit,

00:50:00.640 that compelled them to let us sit there, even though they didn't like it.

00:50:04.840 They didn't feel that we should sit there.

00:50:06.520 They had to abide by the law.

00:50:08.000 Otherwise, they'd be the one in jail and not Rosa Parks.

00:50:11.400 So respect, a willingness to listen.

00:50:16.360 Well, let's put it this way.

00:50:19.000 Between traveling as a child and now as an adult musician around the world,

00:50:23.720 I have been in 57 different countries on six continents.

00:50:27.280 So I've been exposed to a multitude of ethnicities, colors of skin, cultures, traditions, religions, you name it.

00:50:36.660 And no matter how far I've gone from this country, no matter how different a person may look or their culture may be from mine,

00:50:48.200 I've concluded at the end of the day, we all are human beings.

00:50:51.880 And we all want basically the same four or five things, no matter how far away we are from this country.

00:50:57.960 We want to be loved.

00:50:59.420 We want to be respected.

00:51:01.360 We want to be treated fairly.

00:51:03.700 We want to be heard.

00:51:05.580 And we want the same things for our family as anybody else wants for their family.

00:51:10.900 And if we can understand those simple, simple five human things, no matter what culture we go into,

00:51:18.220 no matter how far away from our own country, we can navigate that culture.

00:51:22.660 So if you view white supremacists as simply another culture, and you apply those five things, you will make a connection.

00:51:33.480 You'll be able to navigate with them and be able to have discourse, civil discourse.

00:51:38.460 That's some powerful stuff right there, Daryl.

00:51:40.880 Well, I'll tell you what, you know, I've proven that it works.

00:51:44.000 Yes, you have.

00:51:45.140 And so I'm not knocking what anybody else does, because there are many facets to racism.

00:51:50.420 And what they do, they're addressing, you know, one facet of the police and systemic racism, et cetera.

00:51:56.260 And that's great.

00:51:57.480 You know, that needs to be done also.

00:51:58.980 But we also need to address the individual races.

00:52:03.000 And that's what I do.

00:52:03.860 I sit down and have a heart-to-heart, face-to-face, head-to-head talk with them.

00:52:08.860 Right.

00:52:09.520 With them.

00:52:10.040 The key is with them.

00:52:11.520 Not about them.

00:52:12.600 Not at them.

00:52:13.460 Not past them.

00:52:14.660 But with them.

00:52:16.000 And that's what creates change.

00:52:18.500 That's awesome.

00:52:19.580 That's a great segue to obviously jumping into that side of things.

00:52:22.320 Just so, before we move on to that, I want to recap what you just said.

00:52:26.680 Because I don't want to just jump right over that.

00:52:29.400 Everyone in the world craves these five things.

00:52:34.540 Yes.

00:52:35.040 Right?

00:52:35.440 To be loved.

00:52:36.620 To be respected.

00:52:38.300 To be treated fairly.

00:52:40.320 To be heard.

00:52:43.220 And everyone wants the same thing for their family.

00:52:45.560 Those five things.

00:52:46.900 Yeah.

00:52:47.580 Did I say that right?

00:52:49.020 Absolutely.

00:52:49.440 Everybody wants the same thing for their family as you want for yours.

00:52:53.460 Respect.

00:52:55.720 And that's how you're able to, with that state of mind, that's how you're able to sit down with these racist KKK members and hear them and listen to them.

00:53:06.800 Yeah.

00:53:07.080 Let me give you an example of something.

00:53:08.800 Please do.

00:53:09.220 That actually happens.

00:53:10.140 Okay, so, when one of these guys walks into a room with me and sees me, their wall goes right up because I am the enemy. 0.66

00:53:23.320 I am black. 1.00

00:53:24.740 Just because you're black, you are the enemy. 1.00

00:53:27.420 Absolutely. 1.00

00:53:28.140 Miles joined the KKK.

00:53:29.800 Right.

00:53:30.300 Right?

00:53:31.080 You know what I mean?

00:53:31.580 What was the KKK all about?

00:53:33.780 They didn't like black people, right? 1.00

00:53:36.200 They know black members there. 0.99

00:53:37.120 So, that wall goes right up when they see the enemy, and they're ready to attack. 0.88

00:53:41.900 So, I'm sitting there two feet away from the person interviewing them, and I'm asking, you know, how can you hate me?

00:53:48.820 You don't even know me.

00:53:49.700 All you see is this.

00:53:50.580 The color of my skin. 0.98

00:53:51.980 Well, and then, as I pointed out, they tell you, well, you know, black people are prone to crime. 1.00

00:53:56.840 All you have to do is lose the prison system. 0.98

00:53:58.600 There are more blacks than there than white people. 1.00

00:54:00.460 But, you know, black people are lazy. 1.00

00:54:02.280 You know, they don't want to work. 1.00

00:54:03.160 They prefer to scam the government welfare system. 1.00

00:54:06.260 And black people, you know, are not as intelligent as white people. 1.00

00:54:09.820 They're born with a smaller brain. 1.00

00:54:11.700 All you have to do is look at your SAT scores, Mr. Davis. 1.00

00:54:14.540 You know, black students consistently, every year, they score lower than white people. 1.00

00:54:18.360 Are these the consistent talking points of everyone in the KKK? 0.97

00:54:22.260 You're prone to violence. 0.99

00:54:23.600 You're not as smart as me. 0.99

00:54:26.700 SAT scores, this kind of thing.

00:54:28.300 Yes, because, yeah, that's the narrative that they teach their members when you come in.

00:54:34.020 Those are the talking points, because when you repeat it enough times, it becomes the truth in their minds.

00:54:39.240 You know, one's perspective is one's reality.

00:54:42.080 All right.

00:54:42.360 So I'm sitting there, you know, so when they walk in the room and there I am, that wall goes up.

00:54:49.900 They're ready to pass.

00:54:50.680 So, usually, when you're telling somebody things like that, you know, you're talking to your adversary and you are calling him a criminal, lazy, being on welfare, telling him he's not as intelligent as you are because his brain is smaller and things like that.

00:55:10.460 Is that offensive?

00:55:11.480 Of course that's offensive.

00:55:13.200 Am I offended by it?

00:55:14.320 Absolutely not.

00:55:15.540 Wow.

00:55:15.800 But why am I not offended by it?

00:55:18.420 It's not right.

00:55:19.460 Yeah.

00:55:19.620 Exactly.

00:55:20.540 Why would I be offended by a lie?

00:55:22.140 But too many people let their emotions get in front of them.

00:55:24.920 Wow.

00:55:25.500 And then they start pushing back.

00:55:27.860 And when you push back against a wall, guess what?

00:55:31.280 The wall usually wins.

00:55:33.060 All right.

00:55:33.640 You know, you hit that brick wall.

00:55:35.440 You're not going through it.

00:55:36.820 You know, they're not hearing what you have to say because you're pushing back.

00:55:40.260 They are accustomed to that pushback because they are offending you all the time.

00:55:45.080 And so, you know, they see somebody who's Jewish. 0.90

00:55:48.880 Somebody who is black. 0.55

00:55:50.660 Somebody who is Muslim. 1.00

00:55:52.180 Somebody who is gay. 0.99

00:55:53.580 These are people they don't like. 0.99

00:55:55.080 Or somebody white with a black person. 1.00

00:55:57.260 That's a race traitor. 1.00

00:55:58.460 Somebody, you know, they don't like. 0.76

00:55:59.700 So they go on the attack.

00:56:01.220 And within 45 seconds, they're getting pushback.

00:56:04.200 So they are accustomed to that.

00:56:05.620 It's either verbal pushback or physical.

00:56:08.100 So they are accustomed to it.

00:56:09.460 But now, guess what?

00:56:10.660 I'm sitting two feet in front of them, listening to them, allowing them to be heard.

00:56:17.020 And so I'm throwing them off their game.

00:56:20.480 Because then I used to fight.

00:56:21.620 They're expecting you to fight.

00:56:22.780 They're expecting you to overreact.

00:56:25.060 And you just, how do you actually not, you know, react in a negative way?

00:56:30.580 How do you sit there and take that?

00:56:31.860 What is that about you in your DNA that you're like, all right, buddy, all right, I see what you're saying?

00:56:36.620 They're not talking about me.

00:56:38.160 They're not talking about me.

00:56:39.820 And you have to understand.

00:56:41.080 I mean, they think they are.

00:56:42.420 But I know better.

00:56:43.700 How do they know me?

00:56:44.680 They just met me five, ten minutes ago.

00:56:46.680 Now, if my mother or father were telling me, Daryl, you know, I think you're prone to crime. 0.93

00:56:51.800 You know, you're very lazy. 0.99

00:56:53.420 And you're not that smart.

00:56:54.340 But if my parents were telling me that, I might take a little more, you know, acceptance of what they had to say because they brought me into this world.

00:57:03.780 They raised me.

00:57:04.720 But not somebody who just met me ten, five, ten minutes ago.

00:57:08.320 No, I'm not going to listen to that.

00:57:09.640 I'll listen to it.

00:57:10.500 But, you know, it rolls off my back.

00:57:12.480 And plus, you've got to understand my background again.

00:57:15.080 My parents were diplomats.

00:57:16.500 You know, we go into foreign countries that have policies and traditions and laws that don't, you know, merge with our own.

00:57:25.140 And my dad's job was to foster better relations with the foreign country, with the U.S.

00:57:31.300 So you have to listen to those people and listen to them and try to understand where they're coming from.

00:57:36.240 And then, you know, you have these conversations.

00:57:38.940 So here's the key.

00:57:40.540 You cannot convince anybody of anything when that wall is up.

00:57:44.900 You need to lower the temperature, bring that wall down, and then they hear you because when the wall is up, they're like this.

00:57:52.500 All right?

00:57:52.920 So when I am listening to them, showing them that respect, allowing them to be heard, all right, that wall is coming down.

00:58:02.260 And when the wall gets down, then they feel compelled to reciprocate and allow you to be heard.

00:58:09.460 Because after all, you gave them, you know, you know, that respect and that allowing them to be heard, you give them their platform.

00:58:16.060 So now they're going to give you yours.

00:58:17.300 So I could go on the attack at that point because their wall is down.

00:58:21.880 You don't know nothing.

00:58:22.800 You can't tell me nothing.

00:58:24.200 That kind of a thing.

00:58:25.240 Exactly. 1.00

00:58:25.740 You're the one who's a criminal because you're the one who's hanging black men from trees. 1.00

00:58:31.020 You're the one walking into black churches and shooting people and bombing their churches and burning down their homes. 1.00

00:58:36.900 You know, dragging black people behind pickup trucks. 1.00

00:58:39.500 Which you naturally don't say, right? 0.99

00:58:41.760 Right.

00:58:42.100 But do you ever want to say that?

00:58:44.200 Do you ever want to say you're...

00:58:45.740 Yes, of course I do.

00:58:47.180 But you hold it back.

00:58:48.560 Because it's true.

00:58:51.560 These things did happen.

00:58:52.820 And they still happen.

00:58:54.180 Okay?

00:58:54.500 Yeah, so it's true.

00:58:55.660 I would be well within my right to say that.

00:58:58.420 All right?

00:58:58.760 But no.

00:58:59.740 If I do that, that wall starts going back up.

00:59:03.060 I want to keep the wall down so they hear what I have to say.

00:59:05.580 So rather than go on the offense, I stay on the defense.

00:59:09.480 And what I say is, you know, I hear what you're saying, but please consider this.

00:59:15.780 I don't have a criminal record.

00:59:18.540 Nobody in my family has a criminal record.

00:59:21.800 I have never been on welfare.

00:59:24.320 Nobody in my family has been on welfare.

00:59:26.560 I've never measured my brain size, but I'm sure it's the same size as anybody else's.

00:59:31.760 And as far as SAT scores go, my SATs got me into college.

00:59:37.320 I have a college degree.

00:59:39.560 Now, I say that knowing that that person sitting two feet in front of me barely made it out of high school if he did.

00:59:47.580 All right?

00:59:48.020 And I know that I have more intelligence in my little fingernail than he and his whole plan put together.

00:59:55.840 But I'm not going to throw that in his face.

00:59:58.140 Because if I did, that wall goes back up.

01:00:00.740 So let me tell you what happens then, okay?

01:00:04.140 So, you know, rather than attack with all those facts that I have, I just defend them.

01:00:10.320 And that way he hears them and he can process them.

01:00:13.840 He doesn't hear anything with them when his wall is up.

01:00:15.980 So I can tell you this for a fact, not an opinion, a fact.

01:00:20.320 Because years later, months later, whatever, when they renounce that ideology and give it up and give you their robes and hoods and stuff, here's what I found out has happened multiple times with these people.

01:00:33.120 They go home and they think about what transpired during the day. 0.98

01:00:37.640 And they're like, damn, you know, I just had a three-hour conversation with a black guy. 0.99

01:00:41.960 Three hours. 1.00

01:00:43.380 And we didn't fight.

01:00:44.660 You know, we disagree, but we didn't fight.

01:00:46.760 And what he said about such and such, you know, that makes sense. 0.97

01:00:50.700 But he's black.

01:00:52.600 But what he said was true. 0.97

01:00:54.620 But he's black. 0.63

01:00:55.980 So they're having this cognitive dissonance going on. 0.98

01:00:59.320 You know, they realize something is true, but it came from a black source. 0.95

01:01:04.300 So that is not compute.

01:01:06.060 You know?

01:01:07.120 And so it leaves them with a dilemma.

01:01:09.940 And the dilemma is, I know this to be true.

01:01:14.260 So should I disregard his skin color and believe the truth and change my direction? 0.99

01:01:19.960 Or should I consider his skin color and keep on living a lie? 0.94

01:01:23.840 That becomes their dilemma.

01:01:26.140 And eventually, many of them go the right way.

01:01:31.140 And they believe the truth and they renounce and they change.

01:01:34.440 There will always be those who will go to their graves being hateful, racist, and violent.

01:01:38.720 But see, that's why I say I plant the seed.

01:01:41.720 I have the impetus for them to change themselves.

01:01:44.820 I don't like to say that I converted them.

01:01:46.640 I just gave them a reason to think about it.

01:01:48.560 And they convert themselves.

01:01:49.940 And that was in the introduction.

01:01:51.600 That's what I said is that you're the spark. 0.99

01:01:54.000 That causes them to go back and sit at home and be like, damn. 0.98

01:01:59.380 Like, yeah, this guy just blew my mind. 0.99

01:02:01.720 He was he was smart.

01:02:02.940 He was cool.

01:02:03.460 We got along.

01:02:04.820 He plays the hell out of a keyboard, a piano.

01:02:07.380 He can do the twist.

01:02:08.680 He can do it all.

01:02:10.980 And I can.

01:02:15.360 So you blow their mind a little bit and they go home to their wife, to their kids, to whatever.

01:02:20.420 And what do you think they're going through at that like that night?

01:02:25.040 Right.

01:02:25.220 Because this might be the first time they're really interacting with a black person and a cool black guy and a smart guy.

01:02:32.020 Are they are they thinking, man, that's my whole life a lie.

01:02:36.280 And what have I been doing?

01:02:37.880 Like, what do you think is actually going on in these KKK members heads that just causes them to say, what is going on here?

01:02:45.160 Because I can tell you exactly what they've told me, you know, and now we're friends.

01:02:49.300 And some of them even come out with me on the speaking circuit and speak with me on the same stage and and we now, you know, their former organization.

01:02:56.520 What goes through their mind is, you know, how it depends upon what they have invested in the group.

01:03:03.380 If they're just a rank and file member, you know, they don't have a lot invested.

01:03:09.300 So they're easier to get out if they are a leader.

01:03:13.800 That means they have followers.

01:03:16.220 So what goes through their mind also is, man, you know, how do I tell all these people that I was wrong?

01:03:22.300 Well, and that's very powerful when they go and do that and say, you know, I'm leaving.

01:03:27.340 You know, I've decided, you know, hey, guys, you know, this is wrong.

01:03:30.240 This is not right.

01:03:31.000 I've been just leaving you.

01:03:32.140 And you feel like it's easier to plant that seed in a rank and file member versus a leader?

01:03:39.940 Is that?

01:03:40.680 Of course.

01:03:41.280 You know what?

01:03:42.180 When you are a leader, you are powerful.

01:03:44.420 And no matter what organization you are in, racist or non-racist, political or non-political, when you are in when you are sitting on the throne of power, you don't want to get off.

01:03:58.640 Nobody wants to give up power.

01:04:00.840 Let's go back to music.

01:04:02.140 If you have a number one song, number one, platinum, you don't want to see it drop down to number two and then down to number three and then fall off the top 100.

01:04:12.320 You want to stay at number one for as long as you can.

01:04:14.580 Of course.

01:04:15.640 Okay.

01:04:16.140 So they're number one when they're a leader.

01:04:18.300 They're not number one in the world or in your world or my world, but they're number one in their own little bubble.

01:04:22.560 In their little world.

01:04:23.120 And they have all these followers that look into them.

01:04:25.240 They don't want to get off that power.

01:04:27.700 How do you tell all those followers, hey, you know what?

01:04:31.180 I was wrong.

01:04:31.760 And have leaders actually done that?

01:04:35.340 So here's my question.

01:04:37.260 You know, you've convinced, what, a couple hundred Klansmen to give up their cloak and robe, whether directly or indirectly, right?

01:04:45.180 Right.

01:04:46.360 Well, they convinced themselves.

01:04:47.520 I just gave them the reason.

01:04:48.360 Correct.

01:04:48.760 You're the spark that causes them to go down this path of enlightenment almost.

01:04:52.580 What do those leaders, those leaders say to the followers?

01:04:59.860 Like, meaning there's a difference between a guy saying, you know what?

01:05:02.940 I just met Daryl.

01:05:03.920 That guy blew my mind.

01:05:04.800 I'm going to quit the KKK.

01:05:06.180 I'm just a rank and file guy.

01:05:07.560 I'm going to keep moving on with my life.

01:05:08.880 Versus the leader that has to maybe speak to his constituents and say, guys, I got a breaking news for everybody.

01:05:16.220 I'm out.

01:05:17.900 Yeah.

01:05:18.160 Walk me through that thought process.

01:05:20.420 Okay.

01:05:21.220 It goes, it happens a few different ways.

01:05:24.500 Some just say, hey, you know what?

01:05:26.140 I'm retiring.

01:05:28.060 I'm stepping down.

01:05:29.120 I'm retiring.

01:05:30.420 Yeah.

01:05:31.700 Now, if they retire and still have those beliefs, they take the rank of giant.

01:05:40.760 Okay.

01:05:41.180 Grand means state level.

01:05:42.420 Imperial means national level.

01:05:44.460 So a state leader is known as a grand dragon.

01:05:47.200 A national leader is known as an imperial wizard.

01:05:50.520 So if they retire because, you know, they can't do it anymore, they can't march anymore, they're, you know, they had knee operation or just old and whatever else, they just need to get out.

01:06:01.100 But they still have, they still believe in white supremacy.

01:06:04.260 Then they are, it's like, you know, we would say president or ex-president, former president.

01:06:08.660 So a former grand dragon who still has those beliefs becomes a grand giant.

01:06:14.320 An imperial wizard becomes an imperial giant.

01:06:16.900 Giant means retired but still of the faith.

01:06:20.320 Okay.

01:06:20.560 So then there are those who retire and don't have those feelings anymore.

01:06:27.340 They leave and they go quietly because if they start talking bad about their organization, there may be some ramifications.

01:06:35.180 Because you know what?

01:06:36.140 When you join that organization, you take a blood oath.

01:06:39.200 All right?

01:06:39.900 And you go through the election.

01:06:40.340 What type of ramifications could they face?

01:06:43.280 I'll tell you what, look up a guy named David Lynch.

01:06:46.020 Not David Lynch, the movie maker. 0.96

01:06:48.260 But David Lynch, just put in David Lynch, neo-Nazi, white supremacist. 0.79

01:06:52.160 All right?

01:06:52.360 He was a friend of mine.

01:06:53.520 He was, he formed the largest skinhead movement in the country. 0.91

01:06:57.140 And vehemently violent and racist, anti-Semitic, everything. 0.54

01:07:02.440 And he and I became friends.

01:07:03.840 He got out of the movement.

01:07:05.460 And he testified against some of his own members.

01:07:08.500 Somebody went into his home while he was sleeping and blew his head off.

01:07:17.020 Now, that doesn't happen all the time, but yes, that can happen.

01:07:20.420 And what you have to understand is, you know, when you join in these things, that becomes your family.

01:07:25.440 It's like a cult.

01:07:25.940 That becomes your family above and beyond all others.

01:07:30.800 You don't betray family.

01:07:32.960 If you want to go away quietly, then be quiet.

01:07:35.760 But you don't, you know, come into the family and then, you know, talk bad about them after you leave.

01:07:41.560 Wow.

01:07:42.360 You know, they might come after you.

01:07:43.940 Now, Daryl, this gentleman, David Lynch, who you referred to him as your friend.

01:07:49.940 Now, I know, obviously, in a lot of your interviews and in the documentary, you refer to a lot of these KKK Klansmen as your friend.

01:08:02.180 So here's my question.

01:08:03.900 Are they really your friends or are they more acquaintances you get along with?

01:08:10.700 Both.

01:08:11.700 I have acquaintances I get along with and I have friends.

01:08:14.900 And, you know, you don't always have to agree with your friends.

01:08:17.100 You know, you might have a, you know, you might be pro-abortion and your friend is, you know, pro-choice or whatever, you know, pro-choice or pro-life or whatever.

01:08:29.880 But you find other things to agree upon, you know, and the more you talk, the more you begin to humanize the other person and you might see their point of view or your point of view, et cetera.

01:08:40.120 That's how things, you find commonalities that way, even though you start out as adversaries.

01:08:45.020 The more you talk, that gap narrows.

01:08:48.260 So your adversary is here.

01:08:50.380 And as you find more and more commonalities and conversations, you're here.

01:08:53.820 You are forming a relationship at that point.

01:08:57.300 You talk some more and that gap even gets closer because you found more commonalities.

01:09:02.880 By the time you get here, you have a friendship.

01:09:05.860 All right.

01:09:06.280 You may not agree on everything, but you have a friendship.

01:09:08.160 And at this point in time, the trivial things that you have in contrast, such as skin color or whether you go to a church, a temple, a mosque or a synagogue, begin to matter less and less.

01:09:21.480 Wow.

01:09:22.260 Would you say that to the friends?

01:09:24.100 Would you say today you have more black friends, white friends, Latino friends, female friends, all the above?

01:09:32.040 Is there any differentiating?

01:09:33.140 All the above.

01:09:34.240 No difference.

01:09:34.680 No difference to me.

01:09:36.720 Wow.

01:09:37.140 No difference to me.

01:09:38.640 And I thank my parents for that background.

01:09:42.320 A couple stories I want to ask you about, speaking of your friends.

01:09:46.460 There was one instance where, I believe it was in Maryland, the Grand Dragon Roger Kelly.

01:09:54.000 You two became so close, he named you the godfather of his daughter.

01:09:57.680 Yes.

01:09:59.520 And now there's a post group to that.

01:10:04.840 Yeah, he did.

01:10:06.280 But, you know, his wife's brother or whatever wanted that position.

01:10:12.040 And that side of the family was a little, you know, upset about that.

01:10:16.620 So I just said, hey.

01:10:17.420 I can imagine if a Klansman family, a double D over here, he's going to be the godfather. 0.99

01:10:24.140 So I really push that.

01:10:26.700 Another story, and this is actually very apropos, a Klanswoman named Tina Puig. 0.89

01:10:34.820 And once you told her, hey, shut up and listen.

01:10:38.160 And she eventually did.

01:10:39.600 And you drove her and her family to see her husband in jail, if I understand it correctly.

01:10:45.780 And she came back after essentially hating you initially.

01:10:50.100 She said, you believe, and I quote, God does work through people.

01:10:54.160 And he most certainly uses Daryl Davis as an instrument.

01:10:58.660 Yes.

01:10:58.980 Do you believe that?

01:10:59.720 Do you believe God uses you as an instrument to do what you do?

01:11:04.100 I do believe so.

01:11:05.400 I do believe he has a very strong hand in it because I've been in situations that I should not have walked out of.

01:11:11.920 Wow.

01:11:12.720 On two feet.

01:11:13.580 Yeah.

01:11:14.240 And what instrument would you be?

01:11:17.400 Being that you're a musician.

01:11:19.620 A uniter.

01:11:20.840 A uniter.

01:11:22.300 And music unites people.

01:11:24.440 Of course.

01:11:24.900 We covered that.

01:11:26.180 Yeah.

01:11:26.320 Another, another, a couple other stories.

01:11:30.200 At one point, you walked a Klans lady down the aisle and you served as her, you know, father.

01:11:35.820 Surrogate father.

01:11:36.420 Surrogate father.

01:11:37.780 Tell me about that.

01:11:39.940 Okay.

01:11:40.660 So this, let's go back to three years ago, last month, Charlottesville, Virginia, where they had a white supremacist, large white supremacist rally.

01:11:51.160 And Heather Heyer, I believe, was the woman.

01:11:55.220 Heather Heyer was murdered there by a white supremacist.

01:11:58.920 There were many, many scenes of violence that day all over downtown Charlottesville.

01:12:04.880 One of the scenes depicted some Klansmen coming down the steps of a Confederate park.

01:12:11.440 I remember.

01:12:12.040 Swinging Confederate flagpoles of this black guy who at the same time was trying to torch them with an improvised flamethrower, an air salt cannon. 0.80

01:12:19.800 I remember that. 0.72

01:12:20.340 Swinging Confederate flagpoles or whatever.

01:12:21.180 Okay, yeah.

01:12:22.080 So the leader of that kind of imperial wizard just come down the steps and he turned around and saw this scene going on. 0.99

01:12:30.600 And he pulled a gun and pointed it at the black guy's head and shouted, hey, nigger. 0.99

01:12:36.840 And then he lowered the gun and fired it. 0.99

01:12:39.340 And the bullet went into the ground near the black guy's feet.

01:12:42.760 And then the imperial wizard turned and walked away right past the Charlottesville police.

01:12:47.380 We're standing there watching the whole thing go down.

01:12:49.680 And did absolutely nothing.

01:12:52.200 As a result of their inaction and also other inactions that day, the police chief of Charlottesville was fired and replaced, as he should have been.

01:13:02.720 Anyway, so, you know, I was thinking, you know, what on earth?

01:13:10.980 You know, what would you do if you saw that in your city?

01:13:13.640 And too many Americans think, oh, you know, I live in Los Angeles or I live in Boise, Idaho.

01:13:20.700 You know, I live in Dallas, Texas.

01:13:22.600 You know, Charlottesville, that's their problem.

01:13:25.360 That's not here.

01:13:26.240 But I'll tell you what, anywhere there's hate, that can happen.

01:13:32.060 It can happen in any city USA.

01:13:34.580 And furthermore, any city USA, if you are an American, is your city.

01:13:40.200 You can only put your head down on a pillow in one city at a time.

01:13:45.220 But you own all those cities.

01:13:47.520 If you live in Dallas, Austin is also your city.

01:13:50.880 So is El Paso.

01:13:52.200 So is Los Angeles.

01:13:53.980 So is Oregon.

01:13:55.820 These are all American cities and you're an American.

01:13:58.180 This is your country.

01:13:59.920 So what problems Charlottesville has, you have.

01:14:02.660 Because it's your country.

01:14:04.040 So what are you going to do?

01:14:05.320 Well, the first thing people want to do is blame somebody else.

01:14:08.940 All right.

01:14:09.180 So we could blame the Klansmen coming down the stairs and trying to hit somebody with the flagpole.

01:14:15.540 Yeah, they should not have been doing that.

01:14:16.940 They get some blame. 0.98

01:14:18.340 We can blame the black guy for trying to twerch somebody. 1.00

01:14:21.300 He should not have been doing that. 0.99

01:14:22.760 So he gets some blame.

01:14:24.060 We can blame the Klan leader for pulling out a gun and firing it.

01:14:28.080 He should definitely not have been doing that.

01:14:30.420 But you know what?

01:14:31.280 We can blame the police for not doing their job.

01:14:34.660 You know, they're paid by us taxpayers to serve and protect.

01:14:38.320 Who are they serving and who are they protecting that day?

01:14:41.820 Certainly not anybody there.

01:14:44.060 And damn sure not Heather Heyer. 1.00

01:14:45.600 So if they weren't doing their job, they'd definitely get some blame.

01:14:50.080 But maybe we ought to blame ourselves for allowing our country to come to that point in the 21st century.

01:14:57.360 But you know what?

01:14:58.900 Sitting around, because every time you blame somebody, they're going to blame somebody else or they're going to blame you back.

01:15:03.320 So blaming is a waste of time, right?

01:15:06.940 Maybe what we should do is focus our energy on doing something constructive rather than just passing blame around.

01:15:16.900 That's a waste of time.

01:15:17.580 Realize that our country can only become one of two things.

01:15:24.840 One, it can become that which we sit back and let it become.

01:15:29.620 Or it can be that which we stand up and make it become.

01:15:33.820 So we have to ask ourselves the question.

01:15:36.500 Do I want to sit back and see what my country becomes?

01:15:39.800 Or do I want to stand up and make my country become what I want to see?

01:15:44.700 So I chose the latter.

01:15:47.300 I'm going to stand up and make this country become what I want to see.

01:15:49.820 Because I have to live here.

01:15:51.180 My future has to live here.

01:15:52.940 Whoever comes after me.

01:15:53.980 So I called that guy up, the shooter.

01:15:58.780 And I said, look, man.

01:16:00.260 I said, you and I need to talk.

01:16:02.420 I knew who he was beforehand.

01:16:04.720 I said, you and I need to talk.

01:16:06.460 Not clansman to black man, but man to man, American to American.

01:16:11.940 Your Confederate history is as much a part of my history as my black history is a part of yours. 0.63

01:16:18.220 Let's you and I explore American history together.

01:16:21.680 I want to hear what you have to say.

01:16:24.840 He said, OK.

01:16:26.840 So we set a date.

01:16:28.360 I drove an hour and a half to his home by myself.

01:16:32.360 And I go into his home.

01:16:34.180 I got KKK stuff all over the walls, Confederate stuff.

01:16:37.480 I sat on a Confederate flag blanket on his couch, you know.

01:16:41.720 And I listened to him give me a lesson in American history from a Confederate standpoint, of course.

01:16:48.960 What city was he in, by the way?

01:16:50.800 He's up in Maryland.

01:16:51.880 OK.

01:16:52.380 And so anyway, about an hour and a half from where I live.

01:16:56.540 And so I listened to this for two and a half hours.

01:16:59.940 Actually, it was a little bit less, about two hours.

01:17:02.860 And he got some things right.

01:17:04.300 He got some things wrong.

01:17:05.740 But I just sat back and I listened.

01:17:07.420 You listened.

01:17:08.720 So essentially nonsense for two hours.

01:17:11.580 Exactly.

01:17:12.300 Exactly.

01:17:12.760 But this goes back to your whole point.

01:17:14.300 You have to sit and listen.

01:17:15.500 If you want to be respected, bring the wall down.

01:17:18.840 Right.

01:17:19.520 I want to let him have his peace.

01:17:21.660 All right.

01:17:22.400 So what's going to do off my back?

01:17:24.940 You know, none.

01:17:25.780 It's just a little bit of time.

01:17:26.760 That's all.

01:17:27.420 Wow.

01:17:27.560 Your coolness under pressure is wild.

01:17:29.900 And when he was done, I corrected him on the things that he got wrong and commended him

01:17:36.460 on the things that he got right.

01:17:37.980 And then it's my turn to present my peace.

01:17:40.440 Because, again, rather than attack, I said, you know what?

01:17:44.480 Let's do this.

01:17:45.760 Let's set a date.

01:17:46.760 Because his fiance, the clans lady, was also there.

01:17:50.340 And I said, let's set a date.

01:17:52.720 I'd like for you all to come down to my house in Silver Spring.

01:17:56.200 And I will drive you both down to Washington, D.C., which is only 15 minutes from me.

01:18:01.100 And we'll go to the new Estonian National Museum of African-American History and Culture,

01:18:09.360 which is about maybe 30 minutes from me.

01:18:11.780 And let's just take a tour of it.

01:18:14.740 I said, okay.

01:18:16.520 I've been there, by the way.

01:18:17.700 That is amazingly powerful stuff right there.

01:18:20.800 So I can imagine when he saw some of the stuff that's in there, his mind must have opened up a little bit.

01:18:26.440 Right.

01:18:26.820 And then he has to think about it again when he goes home.

01:18:28.640 Let it soak in.

01:18:31.100 So, you know, we go down, you know, so he comes down to the house.

01:18:34.680 We hang out in my living room with his fiance.

01:18:36.580 And then, you know, we go on down to the museum.

01:18:39.960 And we tour it for almost three hours, a short of three hours.

01:18:43.760 And then we leave.

01:18:46.600 And, you know, this is almost, you know, a year later.

01:18:50.320 The incident with the shooting was August 12, 2017.

01:18:55.840 And so this is in June of 2018.

01:19:02.420 And so a few weeks thereafter, he's going to marry that lady.

01:19:07.440 And she's from Chattanooga, Tennessee.

01:19:11.140 So I get invited to the wedding.

01:19:15.380 Again, which is a first, you know, not only for me.

01:19:18.700 You get invited to this KKK wedding. 0.88

01:19:21.400 Exactly.

01:19:22.560 Because, you know, by that time, listen, you don't invite enemies to your wedding, do you?

01:19:28.000 What do you invite?

01:19:28.800 You invite your friends.

01:19:29.940 Right.

01:19:30.500 He considered me a friend.

01:19:32.340 Wow.

01:19:32.760 You know, now, so he was changing.

01:19:36.740 He was in the process of changing.

01:19:39.140 All right.

01:19:39.860 So an active verb.

01:19:41.200 And so, like I said, you know, we started out here. 0.97

01:19:44.620 You know, you know, hey, nigger, boom, it's not a friend. 1.00

01:19:47.520 Exactly. 0.98

01:19:48.380 The gap is closing.

01:19:49.920 I've been working with him now for almost a year.

01:19:52.140 Right.

01:19:52.940 He's beginning to respect me, humanize me, see things that I want him to see.

01:19:56.680 I listen to him.

01:19:57.420 He listens to me.

01:19:58.440 That kind of thing.

01:19:59.220 So that gap is closing.

01:20:00.780 It closed so much that he invites me to his wedding.

01:20:03.920 All right.

01:20:04.560 So then her, not only is that a first for me, that's a first for the KKK all over. 0.69

01:20:12.100 All right.

01:20:12.560 And, of course, he got some flack for that, which is good.

01:20:15.600 But I'll tell you about that in a second.

01:20:18.060 So her father down in Tennessee was too ill or whatever to make it up to his daughter's wedding to escort her down the aisle.

01:20:27.380 Guess who gets asked?

01:20:29.900 Right.

01:20:30.840 So what am I going to say?

01:20:32.060 No, I'm a friend.

01:20:33.300 So I said, yeah, sure.

01:20:35.600 And I don't care what people think about me.

01:20:37.640 I've already proven that, as you saw in the movie.

01:20:40.440 No, you're just doing what Daryl do.

01:20:42.660 Like, he's doing you.

01:20:43.980 Exactly.

01:20:44.820 I am who I am.

01:20:46.380 So I did it, you know?

01:20:49.500 And it made national news.

01:20:52.980 And other KKK groups all over the place, including some of his own, saw it.

01:20:57.500 The ones who weren't there, the ones who were there saw it in person.

01:20:59.880 But ones all over the place.

01:21:01.480 Because I asked him if it would be okay if CNN came.

01:21:05.880 Yeah.

01:21:07.020 Hey, can CNN come to your wedding?

01:21:09.380 Yeah, I asked him.

01:21:10.240 He trusts me.

01:21:11.520 And, you know, I would never mislead him.

01:21:13.920 You know, he's my friend.

01:21:15.220 And he said, yeah, he says, I don't care about me and my clans lady.

01:21:20.140 You know, you show our faces.

01:21:21.640 We just ask them not to show the faces of the other clan people. 1.00

01:21:25.180 You know, he didn't want them to lose their jobs or whatever.

01:21:28.580 And as a leader, you know, he has to be out there so his face is already known.

01:21:32.640 Just not to cut you off, but something you just said was actually mind-blowing.

01:21:37.060 Because you don't want them to lose their jobs.

01:21:38.660 Let's not forget, these are regular people.

01:21:41.100 They have jobs.

01:21:42.380 Right.

01:21:43.360 They're, you know, they're waiters.

01:21:45.380 They're cooks.

01:21:46.700 They're police officers.

01:21:47.780 They're firemen.

01:21:48.660 They're construction workers.

01:21:49.860 They're in our community.

01:21:51.100 It's not like they're just living within the KKK all day, every day.

01:21:54.020 They meet what, you know, weekly, monthly, what have you, and then they go back out into

01:21:58.320 the real world.

01:21:59.540 Clansman is just a title.

01:22:01.980 Like Boy Scout leader.

01:22:03.280 You have to have a real job.

01:22:04.500 Wow.

01:22:05.320 To pay a mortgage.

01:22:07.180 Okay.

01:22:07.760 So, you know, they understood that.

01:22:10.420 They said, okay, fine.

01:22:11.320 So no filming of the faces.

01:22:13.240 Right.

01:22:13.620 Of the members.

01:22:15.460 So, you know, they didn't film the faces.

01:22:18.600 And I walked down the aisle and gave her away.

01:22:22.740 And so that was seen all over the world on CNN.

01:22:27.480 And that, of course, caused a major ripple in clandum, if you will.

01:22:34.800 And he and she began receiving hate mail, calling her and calling her and he a race

01:22:40.360 traitor. 1.00

01:22:41.180 How can you let a nigger come to your wedding? 1.00

01:22:43.640 And da, da, da, da. 1.00

01:22:44.380 I even kissed her on the cheek when I gave her away.

01:22:47.900 You know, that was just mind blowing for a lot of people.

01:22:51.740 Not only in the clan, but also outside of the clan.

01:22:54.780 And so that was a good thing because it was kind of a bittersweet thing for him because

01:23:00.780 here he is a clan leader.

01:23:02.960 And now all the hate that he was radiating out was now coming back at him. 0.96

01:23:09.100 All because a black guy had had hair on his arm and walked down the aisle. 0.96

01:23:17.740 So now he's seeing the reflection, the mirror, you know, and that gives him pause for thought

01:23:23.500 like, wow, is this really what I want to be involved in?

01:23:27.760 Like I'm used to giving so much hate.

01:23:29.540 Now I'm receiving it.

01:23:30.660 This is what it feels like.

01:23:32.080 The shoes on the other foot.

01:23:33.400 But that's what I mean, to use your word, sparking something.

01:23:38.760 Okay.

01:23:39.640 And, you know, it takes a while.

01:23:42.260 In this case, it took a year, almost a year.

01:23:44.920 Like I said, from August 2017, he got married in July of 2018.

01:23:50.840 So almost a year, you know, one month short of a year.

01:23:53.300 Um, but you know what, that's, if that's what it takes, that's what it takes.

01:23:58.300 But consider it this way.

01:23:59.880 He had this hatred and rage in him for many, many years.

01:24:04.520 All right.

01:24:05.380 So if it can all go away within one year, that's a short period of time.

01:24:08.900 Right.

01:24:09.560 You had once said that, um, I don't want to misquote you.

01:24:14.660 You, you had said, uh, you know, things don't happen overnight and you pointed to this fine

01:24:19.580 figure of yours right here and you said, I want to lose, uh, I want to lose it, you know, 0.51

01:24:24.720 lose some weight.

01:24:25.780 Right.

01:24:26.300 Uh, and I'm, but I know I'm not going to lose it tomorrow, but if I work on it over time,

01:24:31.160 it'll shrink down.

01:24:32.240 Is that basically what that story was right there?

01:24:35.820 Yeah.

01:24:36.300 That reflects that story.

01:24:37.640 Absolutely.

01:24:38.380 But I mean, there, there are other ones similar in the plan, you know, like Roger Kelly, uh,

01:24:43.260 becoming an imperial wizard.

01:24:44.880 He had a wide following giving it up.

01:24:47.200 And not only, not only did he give up the ideology, he did not turn his plan over to

01:24:53.580 his second in command.

01:24:55.380 He shut it down.

01:24:57.160 He shut down his grip.

01:24:58.800 Wow.

01:24:59.920 It's a big difference between just, you know, saying, you know, I don't believe it anymore.

01:25:03.300 You go ahead and take it over.

01:25:04.760 No.

01:25:05.360 He said, you know what?

01:25:06.080 This ends here.

01:25:08.600 The, um, speaking of shutting it down, um, I believe you had met with the, the representative

01:25:16.740 of the Southern Poverty Law Center and they had, they, what's that?

01:25:23.620 Who does not like me?

01:25:24.660 Does not like you?

01:25:26.120 No, I don't think so.

01:25:27.040 Okay.

01:25:27.420 So that's my question.

01:25:28.540 He says that basically they have a wholesale strategy to ending racism in the KKK while

01:25:36.000 yours is a retail strategy.

01:25:38.420 Um, what do you think is more effective and to, to, you know, not to put words in your

01:25:43.500 mouth.

01:25:44.300 Why does it, do you think he likes you?

01:25:46.660 You guys have the same agenda.

01:25:47.760 Explain that wholesale retail strategy and why someone with the same agenda would not

01:25:52.600 like you.

01:25:53.920 Well, same thing with the BLM guys in the movie.

01:25:57.360 Uh, we have the same agenda, you know, more or less to, to, to do away with racism.

01:26:03.400 Um, but, uh, we have different methods of, of doing it and this is what we have to learn.

01:26:08.220 You know, racism is multifaceted and there, and there's no, there's no one, one size fits

01:26:14.080 all, uh, method of, of, uh, of, of diminishing it.

01:26:18.900 You know, there, there are many different aspects that we have to address.

01:26:21.900 We have to, we do things my way, we do things their way, but what's important is that we

01:26:28.000 coordinate our efforts.

01:26:30.080 You do what you specialize in.

01:26:32.000 What he specializes, um, what he specializes in, the guy from the Southern Public Law Center,

01:26:37.120 he specializes in the legal, uh, aspect of it.

01:26:40.800 What can I do to, to legally compel them to do something?

01:26:44.480 I'm going to hit them in the wallet by suing them and making them, you know, give up all

01:26:49.100 kinds of money and give up their charter and give up their buildings and whatever else

01:26:52.880 and that, that will bring them down.

01:26:55.580 Yes, that, that is effective.

01:26:57.640 It also brings more resentment and more anger.

01:27:00.680 And all they do is simply rebrand and come out more ferociously because now they've been

01:27:06.620 hurt.

01:27:07.560 Um, what I try to do is try to make them think, you know what, there's a better way and you

01:27:13.400 can have a better life, you know, because hate is exhausting, you know, and you argue

01:27:18.180 it was just exhausting yourself, um, you know, so, um, well, you know, wouldn't it, wouldn't

01:27:24.920 it be better to, to have somebody come to their own conclusion?

01:27:28.520 I've been wrong.

01:27:29.160 I need to change rather than, you know, make me change by, by costing me my job and costing

01:27:35.220 me all kinds of money.

01:27:36.540 Yes.

01:27:36.760 People need to be punished for things they do when they hurt somebody else.

01:27:40.060 So yes, they should be punished.

01:27:41.520 Um, but we also have to, to help somebody reform their ways, sort of like the difference

01:27:48.220 between a reformatory and a prison prison does not reform prison only penalizes.

01:27:54.780 That's why, that's why in this country, we have a high rate of recidivism.

01:28:00.060 And so we know that we've known that for hundreds of years, you know, because you send somebody

01:28:07.980 into prison, uh, you hope that the time spent in there, they will think about what they're

01:28:12.880 doing.

01:28:13.260 And then when they're released, you know, they won't want to come back.

01:28:16.360 Uh, but, but, uh, reality proves that chances are they will come back.

01:28:20.740 You know, there are those who, who, who go there once and now they don't, that's not for

01:28:24.160 me.

01:28:24.300 I'm going to walk the straight and narrow and they walk the straight and narrow fine,

01:28:28.380 but, uh, but there is a higher rate of recidivism in this country than anywhere else.

01:28:32.400 And that's because we don't reform them in prison. 0.98

01:28:36.180 And when you, when you've seen that for decades, you begin to wonder why is there no reform in

01:28:42.440 prison?

01:28:42.980 Well, you know why?

01:28:43.840 Because somebody is making money and the more people come back, the more money you make.

01:28:49.400 Wow.

01:28:50.060 It's the money play.

01:28:50.960 Yeah, it's sort of like the, uh, the pharmaceutical companies.

01:28:55.520 We know there are cures out there, but if I cure some disease, nobody's going to be buying

01:29:00.460 my medicine anymore.

01:29:01.800 Man, Darrell, that's some powerful stuff right there.

01:29:04.140 But you know, it's true.

01:29:05.120 Of course.

01:29:06.000 You know, I think, uh, United States has 4% of the world's population, but 25% of the

01:29:13.040 world's prisoners.

01:29:14.240 Does that stat make sense to you?

01:29:16.500 Um, I don't know the exact numbers, but yes.

01:29:19.180 The analogy makes sense.

01:29:21.600 Yes, absolutely.

01:29:22.420 It's crazy.

01:29:23.220 It's, uh, but yeah, but see, but we're based on a society of money and greed. 0.84

01:29:28.620 You know, how much money can I make?

01:29:30.100 Even if I have to make it off, off of somebody, you know, and not help them.

01:29:35.160 I'm helping myself.

01:29:36.500 Well, you're very pro-American.

01:29:38.180 I've gotten that stance from you.

01:29:39.740 You're very pro-American.

01:29:40.800 Yes, I am.

01:29:42.140 And which is why I'm doing this, but, uh, it's where I live.

01:29:46.060 Um, but at the same time, you know, I, I also am willing to admit, uh, the faults of

01:29:51.800 our country.

01:29:52.680 You know, we, uh, we, we all have history, the good, the bad, the ugly, and the shameful.

01:29:57.880 And it all needs to be displayed.

01:30:00.380 And those things that, that reflect negatively need to be addressed.

01:30:04.440 We cannot change our history.

01:30:07.360 We cannot change what we've done, but we can take where we are and change our future.

01:30:13.960 You said, um, you can make up for past mistakes.

01:30:16.760 You said that, um, to, to recap what you said, that yes, um, part of our history is shameful.

01:30:23.800 Um, but you don't burn our history down, regardless of how good or bad or ugly it is.

01:30:30.820 KKK, the KKK is as American as baseball, apple pie, and Chevrolet. 0.64

01:30:37.240 It's an ugly part of our history.

01:30:39.140 But yes, it is American.

01:30:40.240 It was created right here.

01:30:41.840 It was born and bred and still exists.

01:30:43.820 It's an American institution.

01:30:45.660 It's an ugly institution, but that's what it is.

01:30:48.640 And so, you know, we need to learn from it.

01:30:51.160 Why do we have the, uh, the Holocaust Museum?

01:30:54.660 Should we just destroy that?

01:30:56.060 Because the Holocaust ended in 1945, and let's not talk about it anymore. 0.81

01:31:00.060 No, because it's bound to repeat itself if you don't.

01:31:03.220 Let's learn from what happened at the Holocaust. 0.95

01:31:05.720 So that is never repeated.

01:31:07.220 Not even a hundred years from now.

01:31:09.160 The, um, have you ever seen my father who grew up in Detroit and my grandparents also in Detroit, 0.92

01:31:14.980 they used to tell me they would see signs that said, no blacks, no Jews, no dogs. 0.80

01:31:21.160 Yeah. 0.56

01:31:21.780 You've seen this before, growing up, ever?

01:31:24.140 I haven't seen the actual signs, but I've seen pictures of them, yes.

01:31:27.840 Yeah.

01:31:28.080 And I tell you what, uh, in 1993, uh, during the first Gulf War, right,

01:31:37.720 I played at a place in Baltimore, uh, with a friend of mine.

01:31:42.100 Um, and, um, it was his gig, and, uh, he, he needed a piano player, so I went up, I was

01:31:47.920 off that night and went up there.

01:31:50.240 And, um, you know, usually you load in the back door of a place because you're bringing

01:31:54.640 in equipment and stuff.

01:31:56.460 Um, so I pulled in the back parking lot, came through the back door, the stage is right

01:32:00.940 there, and put my keyboard there and whatever else.

01:32:03.900 Um, and, um, you know, played the gig, and, uh, I, I had not seen the front of the place

01:32:11.060 other than from the stage.

01:32:13.080 So, um, break, I went, it was hot in there, I went outside, I walked up the front door,

01:32:17.740 and, um, you know, I'm hanging out on the sidewalk, just getting some fresh air or whatever.

01:32:21.580 And then it was time to go back in, I go to go back in, and right there on the front door

01:32:28.500 is a sign, a piece of paper, somebody had written on there, the management, um, uh, no, uh, no,

01:32:37.760 no, no, no shirts, no, no, no, no shoes, um, no sand monkeys, no service.

01:32:47.800 Yeah.

01:32:48.600 1993.

01:32:50.380 1993.

01:32:51.440 This is where we're at.

01:32:52.680 Uh, you're very pro-American.

01:32:54.100 I'm wondering, what are your thoughts on capitalism?

01:32:58.500 When done in moderation, it has its values.

01:33:03.240 Uh, when done to excess, it becomes greed, it becomes, uh, self-destructive in the, in

01:33:09.900 the long run.

01:33:10.840 It's all about, you know, what, you know, what can I get for myself?

01:33:13.620 The bigger, the better.

01:33:15.260 And that's not always the case.

01:33:17.340 You know, we know everything, you know, needs to be in moderation.

01:33:20.300 How, how is what I believe in going to affect everybody else?

01:33:25.380 As opposed to how is what I believe in going to, going to benefit just me and my family.

01:33:32.880 Interesting.

01:33:34.540 Um, you incurred, you had mentioned, um, you're speaking outside of the United States now traveling.

01:33:41.120 Uh, you said you'd been to 57 countries, six continents.

01:33:45.220 I assume the one continent you have not been to is Antarctica.

01:33:48.540 But I truly believe if there are racist, uh, whales or, uh, seals in, uh, Antarctica,

01:33:55.080 you would have a heart to heart with them and listen to them and change their hearts and

01:33:58.740 minds.

01:33:59.640 Um, so you can't, you can't have racist penguins because they're, they're like black and white 0.80

01:34:04.400 together.

01:34:04.700 I imagine if there's some racist penguins, they're self-doubting.

01:34:07.500 They don't know what's going on.

01:34:09.020 Um, but, um, hate is exhausting for sure.

01:34:13.800 Why is traveling so important?

01:34:17.600 Okay.

01:34:18.860 That takes me to my favorite quote of all time.

01:34:21.860 And it's by Mark Twain, otherwise known by his real name of Samuel, Samuel Clemens.

01:34:26.820 And it's called the travel quote by Mark Twain and no truer words have ever been spoken.

01:34:33.000 And what Mark Twain said was travel is fatal to prejudice, prejudice, bigotry, and narrow

01:34:38.940 mindedness.

01:34:39.740 And many of our people need it sorely on these accounts, broad, wholesome, charitable views

01:34:45.000 of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's

01:34:51.040 lifetime.

01:34:51.480 And that is so true.

01:34:53.400 And I, I have benefited so much, uh, from traveling and seeing different people and, you know, and

01:35:00.400 here's the thing with us as Americans, everywhere, everywhere I go, um, I won't say everybody,

01:35:08.640 but a lot of other people are bilingual, trilingual, and even speak four languages.

01:35:15.200 My, my dad spoke nine languages.

01:35:17.400 Wow.

01:35:17.640 Languages, yeah.

01:35:19.700 Uh, but most Americans only speak one language, English.

01:35:23.180 That's it, you know?

01:35:24.780 And unfortunately, most Americans do not travel.

01:35:29.460 Um, in fact, less than 50% of Americans have their passport.

01:35:35.960 Um, Europeans travel all the time.

01:35:38.300 They're always going somewhere.

01:35:39.240 And, and most of them, not all of them, of course, but most of them, especially in, uh,

01:35:44.800 in urban cities, uh, speak more than one language.

01:35:47.900 So, you know, in, in Europe, most, uh, most people in the urban cities, uh, are bilingual.

01:35:53.080 They speak another language.

01:35:54.580 Uh, and, you know, if you're out in the rural parts of the country, they speak their national

01:35:58.540 language and perhaps a dialect, something like that.

01:36:01.280 But most Americans only speak English, you know?

01:36:04.060 And it's, it's hindering, you know, when you want to travel, but I realize that, that

01:36:10.200 most Americans, black or white, uh, have not had the travel experience that I've had.

01:36:15.940 That does not make me a better person than anybody else.

01:36:19.280 It simply makes, gives me a broader perspective.

01:36:22.420 Of course.

01:36:22.860 In most people.

01:36:23.520 Would you say that most, uh, KKK members have never been out of the United States?

01:36:28.480 Yes.

01:36:29.120 Most of them have not.

01:36:29.940 Uh, some have been through the military, things like that.

01:36:34.060 And, and, and a lot of them don't even travel in their own country, let alone their own

01:36:37.960 state, you know?

01:36:40.780 Yeah.

01:36:41.380 It, it, it, bubble, homogenous, you know, go see your country, go to the Grand Canyon,

01:36:47.180 you know, go see the Dominican Memorial, you know, go do something.

01:36:50.700 Um, and, you know, yeah, you know, you, you, you, you're going to be pro-America, but yet,

01:36:56.300 but yet you won't leave, leave, leave your little town and your state, you know, as an America,

01:37:00.720 this is all your country and we're all your people.

01:37:04.060 You get to know us, you know?

01:37:06.460 Um, so that, you know, that's the ignorance.

01:37:08.060 And, and here's another thing that's the ignorance.

01:37:10.140 Um, we talk about, you know, a big thing right now is the Confederacy.

01:37:14.980 It was always been big in the, in their, you know, in their minds.

01:37:17.500 But here, here's what you, what you might find very, very funny, comical.

01:37:21.040 Uh, is the Klan in the Southern States.

01:37:26.420 Oh man, they're all about that Confederate flag and the Confederate monuments.

01:37:30.740 That's my heritage.

01:37:31.660 My great, great grandfather, you know, fought in the, in the, in the Confederacy.

01:37:35.560 Well, guess what?

01:37:36.240 So did mine.

01:37:36.840 Because anybody who knows American history knows there were plenty of Blacks that fought

01:37:42.500 in the Confederacy because slaves had to fight for their slave masters.

01:37:47.460 Oh, I see.

01:37:48.460 Yeah.

01:37:49.120 Okay.

01:37:49.440 So, uh, while I was born in Chicago, my parents are from Virginia and Virginia was the seat

01:37:55.200 of the Confederacy.

01:37:56.880 So my ancestors fought in the, my slave ancestors fought in the Confederacy.

01:38:01.120 Now that does not mean that they honor the Confederacy or they honor slavery.

01:38:05.120 You know, they have to, they were slaves.

01:38:07.200 Um, but now here's the thing.

01:38:08.740 So these people want to honor their great, great ancestors fought in the Confederacy, whatever.

01:38:15.020 The clans in the Northern States, they don't fly the Confederate flag.

01:38:19.440 Um, because they won't honor the Confederacy because they had, uh, their, their, their

01:38:24.600 grand ancestors fought in the union and they were killed by people in the Confederacy.

01:38:30.420 So why am I going to honor the Confederacy?

01:38:34.620 Right?

01:38:35.300 So even though they have the same agenda, anti-Black, anti-Jewish, anti-whatever, uh, they're

01:38:41.480 anti-each other when it comes to the Confederacy.

01:38:45.640 So do they butt heads regarding that?

01:38:48.180 Is that something that certain, do clans, do certain clan members fight over certain

01:38:52.400 things?

01:38:53.220 Yes, absolutely.

01:38:54.420 Absolutely.

01:38:55.200 Um, and here's the interesting thing, you know, when you hate somebody else, you basically

01:38:58.540 hate yourself.

01:38:59.820 Uh, clan groups are, are all rivals with one another.

01:39:03.160 Sometimes they try to put together a confederation of, of clan groups, but it doesn't last very

01:39:08.640 long.

01:39:09.220 In the beginning, there was one clan, one clan and chapters of that clan spread all over

01:39:15.680 the place today.

01:39:16.900 There is no such thing as the Ku Klux Klan.

01:39:20.840 There are many Ku Klux Klan groups.

01:39:22.760 It's a decentralized organization.

01:39:24.980 Gotcha.

01:39:25.380 Because of all the infighting and, you know, you know, we're the real clan, you know, that's

01:39:29.920 a wannabe clan.

01:39:31.060 You know, that's a clan that lets black people come to their wedding, you know, that kind

01:39:33.800 of thing.

01:39:34.120 The clan is decentralized.

01:39:36.740 It's kind of like how you said on the BLM with decentralized.

01:39:39.800 Well, BLM is not, it's not an organization.

01:39:42.100 It's a movement.

01:39:43.240 You know, you don't, you don't pay dues to it, you know, and all that kind of, you know,

01:39:46.460 that kind of thing.

01:39:47.400 Now, uh, speaking of those guys from the movie, you know, a year later, they reached out to

01:39:52.500 me and we got together and made amends.

01:39:55.680 Um, but.

01:39:56.400 The members of BLM you're talking about?

01:39:58.300 Yeah, the ones in the movie.

01:39:59.200 Wow.

01:39:59.500 The two young guys.

01:40:00.340 Yeah, well, one of the two young guys couldn't, couldn't make the dinner, but the other one

01:40:05.260 did and the older guy and we got together, we had dinner and we talked and we agreed

01:40:10.440 to work together and, uh, and we patched up the differences.

01:40:13.720 And then, um, just late last year, uh, the older guy fell off the wagon again and reverted

01:40:20.520 back to, to his former self.

01:40:24.000 And why was that?

01:40:25.140 What happened with that gentleman or why would someone, you know, consider changing and then

01:40:29.740 fall back?

01:40:30.560 And what is that?

01:40:32.320 Ignorance, you know, just couldn't handle it.

01:40:36.400 It all comes down to respect and a willingness to listen.

01:40:40.300 Those are the keys.

01:40:41.640 Yes.

01:40:42.140 Did I say that right?

01:40:43.560 You did.

01:40:43.920 I don't respect what you are saying, but I respect your right to say them.

01:40:48.980 Correct.

01:40:49.760 These are Daryl Davis quotes, ladies and gentlemen.

01:40:52.540 I know you're very big on face to face.

01:40:54.820 You've actually said you can't know the real me through Facebook or through email or on

01:41:00.600 a phone call.

01:41:01.780 You got to sit across from somebody and meeting someone is very essential.

01:41:07.140 You know, it's like, you know, you know, going on dating sites or, or meeting somebody in

01:41:11.460 person, you know?

01:41:12.340 Yeah.

01:41:12.560 So now with today, everything digital, we're on Zoom right now, COVID, we can't meet up.

01:41:19.220 How has that changed or impacted what you do?

01:41:23.080 Physically, it's impacted me because as a musician, as a lecturer, I'm always on the road.

01:41:28.540 I'm always traveling, going somewhere to perform or to speak.

01:41:33.160 And at this point in time, so, you know, it was very unsettling.

01:41:36.660 You know, it's like my, my feet are moving around, but I'm not going anywhere.

01:41:40.020 I'm in my house and, uh, I've not been in at home this many consecutive days in a row

01:41:46.580 since I was a kid living with my parents or something.

01:41:49.780 Um, you know, that's how much I traveled.

01:41:51.660 And so it's definitely been a change, but I've been productive.

01:41:57.280 I finished writing my second book.

01:41:59.220 I started my own podcast, not as extensive as yours, anybody else's, but just something

01:42:03.940 that I thought I would do.

01:42:05.000 I've interviewed a lot of interesting people that I've met over the years in my life, musicians,

01:42:09.360 white supremacists, psychologists, you know, whatever, Rwandan genocide survivors, people

01:42:14.680 like that.

01:42:15.740 And, um, uh, I'm learning to use, uh, you know, modern technology like we're doing right

01:42:21.520 now.

01:42:22.000 Yes, we are.

01:42:22.900 I'm, I'm by no means a Zoom expert, but, um, I, I've, I've learned how to use it to a tool

01:42:27.880 as a tool to my benefit.

01:42:29.740 And like I said, the in-person thing is very important, but this is the next best thing to

01:42:34.440 do it is better than email because you can't tell someone's tone through email, you know?

01:42:39.760 And I, I can look at you.

01:42:41.380 I can hear your tone.

01:42:42.460 I can see your body language.

01:42:44.160 So I can't reach out and shake your hand, but I do have a sense of getting to know you.

01:42:48.620 And one day perhaps we'll meet in person and, and I'll feel like I do know this guy.

01:42:54.420 Yeah.

01:42:54.620 I feel like I can get a good bear hug out of you, man.

01:42:57.740 Yeah, there you go.

01:42:59.640 Let's do a little rapid fire and then we can kind of wrap up.

01:43:03.440 So I'm just going to throw out a couple of words or phrases and just tell me the first

01:43:07.920 thing that comes to your mind.

01:43:08.880 It doesn't necessarily need to be in a word or two, um, but just sort of rapid fire.

01:43:13.300 Let me know your thoughts on this.

01:43:14.880 We talked about BLM.

01:43:15.960 What's the first thing that comes to mind when I say BLM?

01:43:19.700 Disorganized.

01:43:20.820 Disorganized.

01:43:22.040 Protests.

01:43:24.220 Valuable.

01:43:25.380 Rioters. 0.86

01:43:32.340 Discipline.

01:43:35.580 Kneeling for the flag.

01:43:38.220 Positive.

01:43:39.180 Positive.

01:43:40.540 Cancel culture.

01:43:42.940 Negative.

01:43:45.060 Removing statues.

01:43:47.180 Positive.

01:43:48.640 Removing confederate flags.

01:43:51.220 Positive.

01:43:51.540 Renaming forts and bases that are named after confederate soldiers.

01:43:58.700 Positive.

01:44:00.320 Police shootings.

01:44:04.880 Better investigations.

01:44:08.020 Defunding the police.

01:44:10.880 Depending upon the department and how it's defunded.

01:44:14.420 Could be, it could be a positive thing.

01:44:17.900 Systematic racism.

01:44:20.980 Needs to be eradicated.

01:44:24.040 The use of the N-word.

01:44:27.160 Needs to be eradicated. 0.97

01:44:29.020 What about when Black people use the N-word? 1.00

01:44:32.560 Needs to be eradicated. 0.99

01:44:33.760 So you want the N-word out.

01:44:36.240 Yes.

01:44:37.880 A couple people.

01:44:40.380 Christopher Columbus.

01:44:43.580 Statues need to come down.

01:44:45.480 Need to tell the truth about Columbus.

01:44:47.680 Hmm.

01:44:48.740 MLK.

01:44:51.540 Positive.

01:44:52.820 Very positive.

01:44:54.280 Very positive.

01:44:55.040 David Duke.

01:44:55.760 Negative.

01:44:59.680 Barack Obama.

01:45:06.120 Agent of change.

01:45:08.260 Donald Trump.

01:45:10.700 Agent of divide.

01:45:12.420 Of divisiveness.

01:45:14.460 Joe Biden.

01:45:17.600 Wait and see.

01:45:19.940 Wait and see.

01:45:20.920 First person that comes to mind that I give you the opportunity to say a name.

01:45:27.900 Who comes to mind?

01:45:32.040 Evil Knievel.

01:45:33.460 Evil Knievel.

01:45:34.300 Why Evil Knievel?

01:45:36.020 He's one of my heroes.

01:45:37.260 One of my many heroes.

01:45:38.360 Evil Knievel.

01:45:39.320 Why is that?

01:45:40.960 Because he is one man, you know, they say you cannot cheat death.

01:45:47.360 You know, death takes you on its own terms.

01:45:51.620 Evil Knievel cheated death many times.

01:45:54.420 Evil Knievel died on his own terms.

01:45:58.080 He should have been dead a thousand times over. 0.99

01:46:00.520 All the crazy stunts that he did. 1.00

01:46:02.420 But death could never take him.

01:46:04.820 He died of natural causes.

01:46:06.660 Even though he broke every bone in his body.

01:46:08.640 Wow.

01:46:08.960 He should have died, you know, crashing on his motorcycle way up in the air.

01:46:12.880 Jumping over cars and trucks and canyons and stuff.

01:46:17.520 He didn't die.

01:46:18.580 He died when he wanted to die of natural causes.

01:46:21.580 He lived out his life.

01:46:22.520 Evil Knievel.

01:46:23.120 He cheated death.

01:46:23.600 He's my hero.

01:46:25.440 Other than Chuck Berry, favorite musician?

01:46:29.680 Elvis Presley, Pinetop Perkins, Johnny Johnson, Little Richard Jerry Lee Lewis.

01:46:35.080 Hip-hop in America today?

01:46:43.340 Find when it spreads positive messages.

01:46:47.780 Favorite hip-hop artist?

01:46:50.980 Don't have one.

01:46:52.180 Zero.

01:46:52.580 Not that I dislike it.

01:46:56.560 It's not something that I follow a great deal.

01:46:59.120 You don't listen to hip-hop.

01:47:00.540 Well, I listen to it, but I don't really have a favorite artist's word.

01:47:03.640 Who comes to mind when I say hip-hop?

01:47:07.980 What's her name?

01:47:08.740 Lauren.

01:47:10.300 Lauren Hill?

01:47:11.480 Lauren Hill.

01:47:12.640 Respect.

01:47:13.440 Fuji's.

01:47:14.900 Ooh la la la.

01:47:16.620 You know that song?

01:47:17.480 Okay.

01:47:19.700 More likely to get along.

01:47:21.880 Blacks and whites or Democrats and Republicans?

01:47:26.460 Blacks and whites. 0.98

01:47:28.580 What needs to be done to make Democrats and Republicans come together? 0.89

01:47:34.080 If you could, you sit down and you bridge the gap between the KKK and a black person and black American,

01:47:41.180 what needs to be done with Republicans and Democrats these days?

01:47:45.400 Tell the truth on both sides.

01:47:48.080 Stop politicizing.

01:47:49.900 And don't be afraid to break loyalty when something is wrong in your own party.

01:47:56.440 Your most racist experience in the last decade?

01:48:00.520 Every time I meet a plant member.

01:48:03.200 Every time?

01:48:04.720 Yeah, sure.

01:48:05.480 Why else are they in the plant and they're racist?

01:48:08.140 There's nothing that comes to mind like, 1.00

01:48:10.260 that was damn, ridiculously racist. 0.98

01:48:14.080 I mean, I've had fistfights and things like that. 1.00

01:48:17.360 You've had fistfights?

01:48:18.640 Oh, plenty of times, yeah.

01:48:19.880 With Klan members?

01:48:21.120 I have.

01:48:21.720 You versus one Klan member or you versus multiple Klan members?

01:48:25.520 Both.

01:48:26.160 Both.

01:48:26.540 Wow.

01:48:27.640 I put people in the hospital.

01:48:28.780 I put people in jail.

01:48:29.960 Wow.

01:48:30.320 Now, fortunately, you know, those instances are few and far between,

01:48:34.240 but I've beat them on the street and I've beat them in court.

01:48:39.180 How often have you feared for your life?

01:48:41.580 Many times, but not as many as I probably should have.

01:48:48.600 Wow.

01:48:49.360 There's that evil Knievel quality within you.

01:48:54.540 Interesting.

01:48:55.660 If you believe in something, you're going to put yourself out there. 1.00

01:49:00.080 The difference between ignorance and stupidity? 0.99

01:49:03.240 Knowledge that changes you and having knowledge that you refuse to use. 1.00

01:49:12.400 What frustrates you most?

01:49:17.300 Lack of exposure.

01:49:19.160 How do you mean by that?

01:49:22.280 People not willing to expose themselves to things with which they are unfamiliar.

01:49:28.040 That goes back to the traveling, what we talked about.

01:49:32.300 What shocks you the most?

01:49:35.900 That people who see the light don't believe in it.

01:49:41.240 Some people don't believe that water is wet unless you drown them in it,

01:49:46.360 and even then, they have their doubts. 1.00

01:49:48.660 Damn. 1.00

01:49:50.160 Daryl. 1.00

01:49:52.400 How deep? 1.00

01:49:53.780 That stupidity. 1.00

01:49:55.000 How deep, yeah. 1.00

01:49:55.680 Wow.

01:49:56.080 How deep is that water?

01:49:57.980 How deep is Daryl?

01:50:01.260 Depends upon who you ask.

01:50:03.760 Is Daryl a romantic?

01:50:07.080 Oh, absolutely.

01:50:09.300 Okay.

01:50:10.620 I like to think so.

01:50:12.240 You're like, yeah, baby.

01:50:13.480 Barry White in the house, ladies and gentlemen.

01:50:15.580 Is there anything that offends you?

01:50:20.100 Yes, racism offends me, which is why I've, you know, divided my music career.

01:50:28.480 Listen, I would much rather be on the stage playing rock and roll and seeing people out

01:50:33.800 there dancing and shaking to my sounds, to my music, rather than be at some Klan rally

01:50:39.100 watching them, you know, light a cross on fire and proclaim white supremacy.

01:50:43.520 Got it.

01:50:44.140 But, you know, I'm offended that this is happening in my country, where there was a time when

01:50:51.660 we could travel, we Americans, could travel anywhere in the world, anywhere in the world,

01:50:57.340 and we were revered, and today we are the laughingstock of the world.

01:51:02.360 Why do you think that is?

01:51:03.960 For our behavior and for our current leadership.

01:51:08.540 A couple more, and then we can wrap up, Mr. Davis.

01:51:11.560 If you could go back in history and change something or someone, what would that be?

01:51:19.520 If I could change something, I would try to incorporate more of people's history being

01:51:29.220 taught in schools, all Americans' history being taught in schools, and not just relegate

01:51:36.560 it to one month, but put it under the general curriculum of American history, not American

01:51:43.860 history and Black history.

01:51:46.020 Gotcha.

01:51:46.640 Black history is American history, is what you're saying. 0.87

01:51:48.900 It is.

01:51:49.520 Just like you say, Confederate history is part of American history.

01:51:53.600 Yeah.

01:51:54.140 And when you finish the rapid fire, I want to say something about Confederate history.

01:51:57.800 Say it right now.

01:51:59.260 Okay.

01:52:00.520 You know, you mentioned, well, two things.

01:52:03.340 The N-word and, you know, what I think about taking down Confederate monuments and flags.

01:52:10.240 Okay, the N-word is offensive.

01:52:13.860 Okay.

01:52:14.780 And you said, you know, is it offensive when Black people use it? 1.00

01:52:18.480 Yes, it should be eradicated there, too. 0.99

01:52:20.540 Now, I often hear the question, well, how come, you know, you all get offended when white 0.98

01:52:25.740 people use it, but you use it against your own kind, too?

01:52:29.540 Well, here's the difference.

01:52:30.880 I'm not justifying its use.

01:52:32.660 I'm not justifying its use.

01:52:33.160 Nobody should insult anybody.

01:52:35.260 But here is the difference.

01:52:38.340 If you and your brother are having an argument, you know, like siblings do, and your brother

01:52:49.820 calls you an SOB, it's a moot point.

01:52:53.240 Because if you're an SOB, what is he?

01:52:56.400 You got the same mother.

01:52:59.360 So it's another boy.

01:53:01.980 So if somebody Black calls me the N-word, what is he?

01:53:06.880 It's, you know, the old cliche, the pop calling the kettle black. 0.71

01:53:10.020 Gotcha.

01:53:10.820 It's a moot point.

01:53:12.020 But if I'm not your brother, and I call you an SOB, I've just insulted your mother, and 0.95

01:53:17.080 you're going to knock my teeth up. 0.97

01:53:19.200 So if somebody who's not Black is calling me an SOB, I mean, in word, it's a lot more

01:53:26.520 offensive than somebody who looks like me.

01:53:29.580 Makes sense.

01:53:30.200 So it shouldn't be done at all.

01:53:32.380 Now, I'll tell you, you know, he passed away a few years ago, a couple years ago, the

01:53:38.800 activist, comedian, Dick Gregory.

01:53:41.040 Of course.

01:53:41.780 Dick Gregory.

01:53:42.920 Gray beard.

01:53:44.000 Very funny man.

01:53:45.120 Very serious man.

01:53:46.500 Yep.

01:53:46.820 You probably knew him before he had the gray beard.

01:53:48.680 Exactly.

01:53:49.560 He's a friend of mine.

01:53:50.440 Well, he was.

01:53:51.300 And he passed away.

01:53:52.960 But he and I participated in a lot of protests together.

01:53:57.520 He told me a story one time that you'll appreciate.

01:54:00.860 The Rolling Stones were coming to my hometown, Chicago.

01:54:05.340 And, of course, you know, they don't have to advertise in advance.

01:54:08.800 They can advertise the night before the concert and the whole arena.

01:54:11.520 People are going to show up to see the Rolling Stones.

01:54:13.300 Exactly.

01:54:13.820 Right.

01:54:14.260 And so back then, it's like in the 80s or something.

01:54:18.740 Back then, you know, you couldn't get tickets online.

01:54:21.500 There was no online.

01:54:22.840 You had to go to Ticketron or Ticketmaster.

01:54:25.800 And people would camp out the night before, make a big line all the way around the block

01:54:29.880 to get in that door to Heck Company to go to Ticketron and get their tickets at the mall or whatever.

01:54:36.360 And so there had been an announcement, you know, that the Stones were coming.

01:54:40.200 And so people, you know, took off work and went out there and camped out on the sidewalk,

01:54:44.400 spent the night out there, you know, to wait until the next morning to be the first to get in that door and get front row tickets or whatever.

01:54:49.420 And so big, long line, you know, morning came, it's almost time for the mall to open.

01:54:56.680 And this black guy pulls up in this car along the street to the sidewalk, a big, long line.

01:55:02.940 And he pulls up right by the front door.

01:55:04.720 He gets out and he walks through the front of the line.

01:55:08.060 And these guys had been there all night.

01:55:09.440 Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

01:55:11.060 Line's back there, buddy.

01:55:12.380 And, you know, just move him back.

01:55:13.700 And he comes forward again.

01:55:17.100 And this time they called him the N-word and picked him up and carried him over to the street.

01:55:24.860 It goes around the mall. 1.00

01:55:26.020 But they had the sidewalk that said, you stupid N-word, the line is back there, and threw him out in the street. 1.00

01:55:32.200 He got up, brushed himself off, got inside his car, started his car back up. 1.00

01:55:37.380 Then he got out of the car and he said to them, you know, you can call me stupid and you can call me the N-word, but I'm the stupid N-word that has the keys to let you all in there. 0.99

01:55:53.980 So with that, he got back inside his car and drove to the end of the line on the other side of the mall and opened that door first. 1.00

01:56:03.580 So all the people at the end of the line got to go get their tickets for us.

01:56:07.500 Wow.

01:56:08.500 Yeah.

01:56:09.200 What's the message with that?

01:56:11.420 You better watch who you call the N-word.

01:56:13.200 Maybe you shouldn't use it at all, right?

01:56:15.900 Agreed.

01:56:16.460 So, you know, without even seeing why he was, you know, they perceived him to be jumping the line.

01:56:24.200 Yeah.

01:56:24.560 Not realizing he's a maintenance guy.

01:56:26.620 Buddy, he's getting you in.

01:56:28.440 He's getting you in.

01:56:29.280 He could have opened any door in the mall, and because you spent the night there the longest, he's going to open your door first.

01:56:37.180 But you jumped to the conclusion without realizing, and you all called him an N-word and threw him out in the street.

01:56:43.620 Okay?

01:56:44.100 So anyway, so yeah, that word should not be used by anybody.

01:56:47.680 And I chide blackly before you've been using it.

01:56:51.180 If you're not going to insult somebody else outside of your race, why do you want to insult somebody in your race?

01:56:56.060 I listen to a lot of hip-hop, you know.

01:56:57.840 I listen to a lot of music.

01:56:59.220 Obviously, we've talked about, you know, Jackie Wilson being my favorite artist.

01:57:03.120 We talk about all different sorts of music.

01:57:05.300 But you hear the, you know, using the N-word, which, you know, nobody should use.

01:57:11.080 But they say, well, it's not with the hard R, but with an A at the end.

01:57:16.120 You've heard this?

01:57:17.160 Yeah, I've heard all that.

01:57:18.440 What are your thoughts on, like, because you hear it in all the rap songs.

01:57:21.840 Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. 0.57

01:57:23.660 But it's with an A at the end, not an E-R.

01:57:26.040 Yeah, but listen, why don't I just say, hey, hey, you N-word.

01:57:31.040 And instead of saying, you know, with the E-R at the end, why would you say N-word?

01:57:36.540 The same meaning.

01:57:37.880 Yeah, same meaning.

01:57:38.780 Okay, so if I said, you know, this is a crock of bull spit.

01:57:43.420 You know what you mean.

01:57:44.620 Exactly.

01:57:45.320 Exactly.

01:57:45.820 So what's the point?

01:57:47.560 It has the same implication.

01:57:49.620 The word needs to go.

01:57:51.160 The word needs to go.

01:57:51.880 Okay, so the Confederate monuments and flags.

01:57:56.860 Let's talk about that for a second.

01:57:59.040 Here's the thing.

01:58:00.440 We went to war against, well, let's put it this way.

01:58:04.860 Most white Americans in this country are of British descent.

01:58:09.720 They were the first ones to come to these shores, right?

01:58:13.560 The Puritans. 0.56

01:58:14.800 Pilgrims.

01:58:15.500 The Puritans, pilgrims, all that.

01:58:17.280 Captain John Smith and all those people.

01:58:19.320 All right.

01:58:20.720 And he had an affair with Pocahontas. 0.99

01:58:23.360 He likes some dark meat.

01:58:25.100 Hey, you got it.

01:58:26.940 So a leg man instead of breast man. 0.99

01:58:30.720 Right.

01:58:31.160 So the majority of white Americans are of British descent.

01:58:37.480 We went to war against Great Britain.

01:58:41.520 And many Americans have ancestry that fought in that Revolutionary War.

01:58:47.360 Right.

01:58:48.760 And we beat Great Britain, which is why two months ago we celebrated in this country called the Fourth of July, Independence Day.

01:59:00.140 Right.

01:59:00.440 Now, do these Americans who have British ancestry who fought against us, do they honor Great Britain by building statues out here of King George III and flying the Union Jack?

01:59:15.000 No.

01:59:16.040 The winner does not get to build his statues or fly his flags on the winner's land.

01:59:21.560 On December 7th, 1941, we were bombed in Pearl Harbor by the Japanese.

01:59:28.060 We went to war against Japan.

01:59:31.940 There are plenty of Japanese Americans in this country that are as American as anybody else.

01:59:38.480 And we beat Japan.

01:59:41.500 They have ancestors who fought against us.

01:59:44.620 And, of course, they honor their ancestors.

01:59:46.940 They may not have approved of the war, but they don't get out here and build statues to Emperor Hirohito and fly the Japanese flag.

01:59:52.800 We went to war against Germany.

01:59:57.020 There are tons of German Americans or Americans of German descent in this country.

02:00:02.180 And you know they had ancestry that fought in the Third Reich.

02:00:07.100 They had to because their leader was a dictator.

02:00:11.080 You either honored him or you were exterminated unless you escaped to Poland or somewhere.

02:00:16.440 All right?

02:00:16.740 So, do these German Americans build statues of Joseph Goebbels or Adolf Hitler out here and fly swaps at this? 0.54

02:00:24.900 No.

02:00:25.460 Not unless they're neo-Nazis or something.

02:00:27.520 All right?

02:00:28.240 We beat Germany.

02:00:30.320 The loser does not get to fly his flag or build his statues on the winner's property.

02:00:35.060 Guess what?

02:00:35.920 The Confederacy lost the war.

02:00:39.120 They need to get over it.

02:00:41.000 They don't need to build their statues or fly their flags.

02:00:43.420 This is the United States of America, not the Confederate States of America, the CSA.

02:00:50.560 All right?

02:00:50.740 The Confederacy lost.

02:00:52.320 Now, should the statues be ripped down and destroyed?

02:00:55.720 No.

02:00:56.520 They should be taken down and placed in a museum or build a Confederate memorial park and place them there.

02:01:05.000 And people who want to go and honor those statues and flags, go do so.

02:01:09.680 That's part of our history.

02:01:11.280 Put them there.

02:01:11.840 But they do not represent this country.

02:01:14.880 Those states that fought against the Union were seditionists. 0.82

02:01:20.180 They were traitors.

02:01:21.380 They created civil unrest to destroy the unity of this country.

02:01:27.780 We are the United States.

02:01:29.300 There should only be one flag.

02:01:30.380 You speak with somebody and they'll say, well, the Civil War wasn't about slavery.

02:01:36.080 It was about states' rights.

02:01:37.340 Okay.

02:01:38.100 Yeah.

02:01:38.420 The states' right to own a slave.

02:01:40.760 That's what states' rights means.

02:01:42.260 Right.

02:01:42.780 You know, it's our right to do what we want to do.

02:01:44.640 If we want to own slaves, we're going to own slaves. 0.87

02:01:47.360 States' rights to own slaves.

02:01:48.960 So it's like two parts to that.

02:01:50.800 The slavery is a part of it.

02:01:52.060 Slavery was the biggest part of it because the people, and listen, you've heard the term, you know, she comes from old money or he comes from old money. 0.62

02:02:01.240 Right.

02:02:01.400 You know what old money is, right?

02:02:04.060 Old money is the money that came off plantations way back then.

02:02:07.720 People picking cotton, picking tobacco.

02:02:10.100 Old money. 0.96

02:02:10.440 Slaves picked that stuff. 1.00

02:02:11.560 Slaves picked that stuff. 1.00

02:02:13.080 White people weren't working. 0.99

02:02:15.540 They weren't paying those slaves.

02:02:17.600 They were making all the money from free labor.

02:02:21.100 That's why the Civil War was fought, to free the slaves.

02:02:24.900 So now if you're going to free these people, how are you going to make money?

02:02:28.000 You were making money for free.

02:02:30.020 You've heard the term, money doesn't grow on trees?

02:02:33.180 Yeah.

02:02:34.220 In those days, money did grow on trees because you didn't have to work for it.

02:02:38.540 You had slaves doing your work for you, and you weren't paying them, and all you were doing was just getting money.

02:02:43.920 So you had a money tree in your, you would say today, in your backyard, but back in those days, you had a money tree on my plantation, you know?

02:02:51.820 And when somebody would say, you might be too young to remember this expression, but something like, it's none of your cotton-picking business. 0.99

02:02:58.380 Of course I remember that, yeah.

02:03:00.100 Yeah, well, where does that come from?

02:03:01.900 Clearly, none of your cotton-picking business, right? 1.00

02:03:04.440 Right, yeah.

02:03:05.180 What was the cotton-picking business?

02:03:06.920 Right, the slaves, you know?

02:03:10.000 So it's a derogatory statement.

02:03:12.700 You know, he comes from the wrong side of the tracks.

02:03:15.340 Well, that's the black side of the tracks in the South, because the railroad tracks divided the white side of town to the black side of town. 0.68

02:03:21.160 So the wrong side of the tracks were the black side of the tracks.

02:03:23.980 Gotcha.

02:03:24.320 You know, so yes, you know, so these people were fighting because their income was going to be impacted if slavery were to end.

02:03:33.480 They made tons of money off of cotton.

02:03:35.540 All your clothes were made out of cotton back then.

02:03:37.680 They didn't have polyester. 0.93

02:03:39.320 You know, and of course, tobacco was a big thing.

02:03:41.340 Still is a big thing.

02:03:42.780 You know, I mean, how long has it been since you couldn't smoke in public places?

02:03:46.600 Just a few years, right?

02:03:47.560 Yeah, maybe 10 years ago.

02:03:48.700 In the scheme of things, you know, maybe 15 years ago or whatever.

02:03:51.740 But up until then, tobacco was a big thing, man.

02:03:55.640 Tons of money.

02:03:56.500 That is old money.

02:03:57.620 Old money comes from plantations.

02:03:59.400 New money comes from Silicon Valley.

02:04:01.640 All right?

02:04:01.920 So the war was fought over slavery.

02:04:05.820 And in history books, in the North, they teach, you know, it was about slavery.

02:04:10.920 In the South, it's about states' rights.

02:04:13.140 You know, yeah, the states' rights to own a slave.

02:04:15.600 There's a part B to that.

02:04:17.200 Yeah.

02:04:18.680 Respect.

02:04:19.860 That was really the rapid fire.

02:04:22.040 Thank you for kind of digging deeper on those two topics.

02:04:25.360 Can we do?

02:04:26.340 I just want to say one more thing.

02:04:28.300 You know, people say, no, no, no, it's not, you know, that flag is not about eight.

02:04:30.860 You know, it's about heritage.

02:04:32.940 Well, first of all, the Confederate flag is not what most people think it is.

02:04:37.700 The Confederate flag is a different flag from the one that you see with the cross and the stars and things.

02:04:44.520 That was the battle flag of the Confederacy.

02:04:47.380 That's the flag they went to war with to defend slavery, that they are misnaming the Confederate flag.

02:04:53.940 The Confederate flag was a little bit different.

02:04:56.300 That battle flag is what people call the Confederate flag.

02:04:58.440 That that that was the flag that fought for slavery and the state's rights to own slaves.

02:05:07.600 But when you say, you know, no, no, no, it's not about hate.

02:05:09.960 It's about heritage.

02:05:11.140 Listen, the South has a lot to be proud of, a whole lot to be proud of.

02:05:15.900 A lot of good things came out of the South.

02:05:17.980 Slavery was not one of them.

02:05:19.280 All right.

02:05:20.400 And if you think that flag represents your heritage, all you have to do is go on Google, if you don't want to go to one physically, go on Google, just Google Klan rally, KKK rally, and click on images.

02:05:33.180 You see all these images, people in robes and hoods holding Confederate flags.

02:05:36.860 Now, you call that a hate group, you say, oh, I'm not associated with that.

02:05:41.080 Those are hate groups.

02:05:42.220 Hate people, I don't hate people.

02:05:43.920 Well, if that's a hate group and they're flying your flag, your heritage flag, they're flying it because it represents hate.

02:05:51.080 And in Berlin, well, Berlin and Munich and other places in Germany, today the swastika is banned.

02:05:57.920 You cannot fly the swastika in Germany.

02:06:00.420 You can't even fly it privately.

02:06:02.940 Privately, you can't even do it.

02:06:04.460 You will go to jail.

02:06:05.340 So guess what the neo-Nazis over there use in place of a swastika?

02:06:11.380 They use our Confederate flag.

02:06:13.380 Get out of here.

02:06:14.340 That's what they use there.

02:06:15.580 Yeah.

02:06:16.080 You see neo-Nazis in Germany walking down the street with Confederate flags because to them it's a symbol of white supremacy.

02:06:22.800 Just like it is here, too.

02:06:24.280 All right.

02:06:24.660 But people say, no, no, no, it's about heritage.

02:06:27.280 All right.

02:06:27.480 So my thing is this.

02:06:29.060 Go to a Klan rally with me.

02:06:30.860 And if you see somebody flying a Confederate flag, I want you to go to that person in the Roman hood with the Confederate flag and tell them that's not what it stands for.

02:06:41.060 Give me back my flag.

02:06:42.340 Whether they give it back to you or not, if you do that, I will come to your house and I will take your Confederate flag and I will hoist it up your flagpole for you.

02:06:52.720 I have yet to have any takers come.

02:06:54.860 Nobody's doing that.

02:06:55.940 While we're on that topic, if you took me to a Klan rally, right, what would happen?

02:07:01.560 You'd probably be called a race traitor because you're there with me and you're not standing with them or for them. 0.98

02:07:13.200 A race traitor. 0.93

02:07:13.680 Now, if they find out that I'm Jewish, now what? 1.00

02:07:18.120 You are the biggest problem. 1.00

02:07:20.540 You're even a bigger problem than black people. 1.00

02:07:22.860 Jewish people are a bigger problem than black people, according to the KKK. 0.99

02:07:25.900 And that changed, it started to change in the late 50s, and it began changing throughout the 60s because what they consider the biggest problem are the Jews. 0.98

02:07:41.540 They call it ZOG, Z-O-G, which stands for Zionist Occupied Government, ZOG.

02:07:48.980 And they came to the conclusion that, and this is all white supremacists, neo-Nazis, Klan, whatever, that Jews are running the media, they own all the TV stations, all the newspapers, they own the banking system, and all these things. 0.95

02:08:10.100 And it's jealousy because they were too dumb to do it themselves or whatever, and Jewish people figured out how to create a valuable and a viable banking system. 0.96

02:08:22.780 Surely they do run a lot of media, et cetera. 0.99

02:08:26.900 That's what they do, you know?

02:08:28.820 But because these people didn't have the brain cells to do it themselves or whatever, they're envious, they're jealous. 0.98

02:08:36.020 And so those people who run the media, black people are now the pawns of the Jews. 1.00

02:08:41.840 That's what they think in their mind. 0.98

02:08:43.500 The Jews run everything, and we are the pawns. 1.00

02:08:46.160 It's like the drug lord and the dealers on the streets. 0.92

02:08:49.200 So if I came and met with a KKK member, like with you, you're saying if the two of us sat down, Daryl and Adam, we're going to go meet some KKK members, you would say that they would hate me more than they hate you?

02:09:03.460 Yeah, because your people control my people.

02:09:06.840 Don't forget, we're not smart. 0.97

02:09:08.780 Our brains are small.

02:09:10.480 But you figured out ways to connive and do all kinds of things to get in control. 0.98

02:09:15.440 Because Jews are a race. 1.00

02:09:17.760 They're not a religion.

02:09:18.520 They're a race, according to these people.

02:09:21.140 So your race is in a position that they are not in. 0.95

02:09:25.700 They should be the ones controlling the media, the radio, the TV stations, the movies, the media, and the banks.

02:09:34.880 But the Jews, that race has somehow slipped by. 1.00

02:09:38.500 Hitler was right. 1.00

02:09:39.820 And when you see them marching down the street, they're talking about, in their megaphones, six million was not enough.

02:09:46.440 That's why they have Holocaust deniers.

02:09:49.940 It's that jealousy thing.

02:09:51.340 It's that Zog, as they put it. 1.00

02:09:54.720 Zog. 1.00

02:09:55.120 So they must have really, really hated Sammy Davis Jr., a black Jew. 0.92

02:10:01.080 Oh, yeah.

02:10:02.000 Yeah.

02:10:03.900 Well, maybe one of these days I go with you to a Klan rally. 0.86

02:10:07.860 Okay.

02:10:08.260 We'll do that.

02:10:09.840 I'll shave.

02:10:10.580 I'll put on a different hat. 0.95

02:10:12.060 I won't look as Jew-y. 0.99

02:10:14.960 We'll see where it goes.

02:10:16.760 Man, this has been incredible.

02:10:18.440 What are your long-term goals?

02:10:21.360 I mean, you're in the thick of things right now.

02:10:23.580 Where do you see?

02:10:24.140 You're 62, I want to say.

02:10:26.320 I am.

02:10:26.680 Right?

02:10:27.040 You're going to be with us for a handful of more decades, right?

02:10:30.280 Let's hope so.

02:10:30.980 Let's hope so.

02:10:32.780 What are your long-term goals?

02:10:34.180 Where would you like to see everything that you've done, where would you like it to lead to?

02:10:38.560 I'd like it to lead to more people taking my template and improving upon it.

02:10:47.080 I know it can be improved because, you know, I'm not the begin-all, end-all.

02:10:53.840 There's always room for improvement.

02:10:55.880 And I've done and I'm doing, you know, what I believe I'm capable of doing.

02:11:00.280 But I know there are people out there who can take it and build upon it and improve it.

02:11:06.080 And I hope it will inspire more people to do so and take it to even greater heights.

02:11:11.740 What would you want your legacy to be?

02:11:18.020 Let's see.

02:11:20.240 Rock and roll race reconciliator.

02:11:23.980 Rock and roll race reconciliator.

02:11:29.280 Yeah.

02:11:29.560 I like the ring of that.

02:11:32.080 I like that.

02:11:33.420 R, R, R, R.

02:11:34.580 R, R, R, D, D, D, and the R, R, R. 0.53

02:11:37.780 I dig it.

02:11:39.380 Overall, what do you want to be known for?

02:11:41.240 We talked about your legacy, the rock and roll race reconciliator.

02:11:45.940 What do you want?

02:11:46.300 Like when people think of Daryl Davis, you know, a hundred years from now, they Google Daryl Davis.

02:11:50.720 Oh, he was that guy, that, dot, dot, dot.

02:11:53.900 You know, I mean, I'd rather be known, you know, musically.

02:11:57.620 I mean, that's what makes people happy.

02:11:59.560 Really?

02:11:59.900 And that's why I got into music, to make people happy.

02:12:02.380 So at the end of the day, you consider yourself a musician who changes.

02:12:05.700 Absolutely.

02:12:07.540 Absolutely.

02:12:08.620 You know?

02:12:08.940 Listen, let me tell you how I view it as a musician, okay?

02:12:14.400 I spend a lot of time playing in other people's bands, being their musical director or being a side man.

02:12:22.640 Like, you know, when I play with Chuck, for example, Barry, if I was in a position as musical director, I would have to rehearse whatever band he had and direct them, how to follow him, et cetera.

02:12:36.680 Other times, you know, I'm just a side man, you know, in somebody's band, you know, they're the front person, I'm just playing backup piano for them, backup guitar or whatever.

02:12:47.200 But as a band leader in my own band, I'm the front man, I'm the leader.

02:12:52.760 And my job as a band leader is to bring harmony between the voices on my stage, whether they are the instrumental voices, the piano, bass, drums, guitar, saxophone, whatever else I have in the band, and the human voices, the singers.

02:13:07.180 Right? We want harmony. The only time that I want dissonance is when I interjected into the music intentionally, and that can be done for effect.

02:13:18.480 Like, I want to create a certain mood, so I put some strange thing in there to jolt the audience.

02:13:24.560 You know, that's called a dissonance, because it doesn't belong within the harmony of the music.

02:13:28.920 So, if dissonance happens randomly and not intentionally, then that's noise.

02:13:36.100 Somebody hit a bad note, or somebody sang out a tune, somebody made a mistake in what they were playing.

02:13:41.020 That's where James Brown will knock you five bucks right there.

02:13:43.500 That's right. And James Brown will make you rehearse until four o'clock in the morning.

02:13:47.120 Even if one person made a mistake, the whole band has to come and rehearse until four o'clock in the morning.

02:13:51.800 Yeah. Exactly. He turned around and go like this, five bucks or whatever.

02:13:56.820 Yeah. That was a dissonance.

02:13:58.400 Yes. So, the only time you want dissonance is when, as a band leader, is when you intentionally inject it for effect.

02:14:04.800 All right. So, I spend my time on stage trying to bring harmony between all my various voices, instrumental and vocal.

02:14:14.240 Is it natural when I step off the stage, I'm done, and I'm out in society? Don't I want harmony there, too?

02:14:20.460 Of course. I'm a band leader. My job is to bring harmony, whether it's onstage or offstage.

02:14:25.960 Harmony.

02:14:27.220 Yeah.

02:14:28.400 You're bringing harmony. You're causing these KKK members to completely change their lives, right?

02:14:36.800 You're the spark plug that makes them say, what am I doing with my life?

02:14:40.780 That must change you.

02:14:42.860 How have you changed in this process?

02:14:45.300 Well, I've changed in realizing that people can change. Because when I first went into this, you know, the change thing was not in my mind at all.

02:14:57.240 You know, I had no reason to believe that these people are going to change. All I wanted was to find out, how can you hate me when you don't even know me? That's all I want to know. I'm going to write a book about it. I'm going to write a book about why you people think this way.

02:15:12.800 Because as kids, you've heard it. I've heard it. Everybody's heard it. A tiger does not change his stripes. A leopard does not change his spots. So why would I believe that a Klansman would change his robe and hood?

02:15:26.680 Right? So I'm not going in with the idea, you know, you need to give this up. Give me your robe. No, no. I just want to know why you hate me. That's all. You know, and then we're going to shake hands. We're going to walk away and you're going to continue dating. I'm going to continue doing what I do.

02:15:42.000 But what happened was people began changing. And I thought, wait a minute. I'm on to something here. I thought a tiger didn't change his stripes and a leopard didn't change his spots. But now a Klansman is changing his robe and hood.

02:15:55.600 And it happened again and again and again. So that's why I keep doing it. But I had made a mistake. My mistake was in believing that because a leopard did not change his spots and a Klansman, I mean, a tiger did not change his stripes, that a Klansman would not change his robe and hood. 0.53

02:16:12.560 That's a mistake. Because what we have to understand is this. A leopard and a tiger are born with their spots and stripes. A Klansman is not born with racism. That's a learned behavior.

02:16:29.020 So what can be learned can be unlearned. So that is true. A tiger cannot change his stripes. A leopard cannot change his stripes. Or vice versa. Because they are born with those things. Racism you're not born with is learned.

02:16:46.740 But a Klansman can change his robe.

02:16:48.880 Yes, indeed.

02:16:49.880 Wow. So, last thing. Are you optimistic about the future of race relations in the United States?

02:17:02.320 I don't get involved in anything that I can't do. So yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And we are in the best time of our lives right now.

02:17:11.300 Okay? It was always going to, you know, anytime you have change, there's going to be upheaval. Because people are creatures of change. I mean, people are creatures of habit. And change disrupts them. All right? So yes, we're in the best time since the 20th century right now.

02:17:28.820 And I say that because we're turning a page. We turned a page with Rosa Parks. We turned a page with Dr. King throughout the 60s. We turned a page when Barack Obama went into the White House. Today, we're turning a page with these protests.

02:17:44.520 And we're seeing more, you know, you think we're seeing a lot of division out there? Yes, there is a lot of division out there. That's because of the upheaval. People don't like to change. But what are we seeing different today than we've ever seen before?

02:18:03.580 We've always had protests out in the streets saying, no justice, no peace. We want equality. Enough's enough. We've heard those slogans for years. Decades. Back to the 60s and 50s. All right? But what are we seeing different today? Let me explain something to you. We're seeing the results of the collective force. All right?

02:18:27.080 Black people. Black people have always been involved in our protests. Even back to the 50s with Rosa Parks. There was a smattering of white people who saw, you know, this is right. I need to support this.

02:18:43.760 In the Freedom Rides in the 60s, trying to integrate the bus stations in the South. White people took part in that. White people were beat just like black people by the Klan at the Birmingham bus station because they were considered race traitors. They were supporting these black people. You know, they wanted one waiting room, not a black waiting room and a white waiting room. All that kind of stuff. They wanted to end segregation.

02:19:06.880 So we've always had some white people who participated with us. Black people did not put Barack Obama in the White House. It was white people who put him in the White House because black people only make 12% of the U.S. population. And not all 12% of us are eligible to vote, either because we're not registered or we're underage or we're felons or whatever case may be that, you know, that you're not qualified to vote. All right?

02:19:36.060 Even if all 12% of black people in this country, including newborn babies, were able to vote, that still would not be enough. We still needed a great portion of white people to join us to get that man in the White House, right? 0.70

02:19:51.580 20 years ago, Barack Obama or any other black person could not have won the White House because the attitude was not there for enough white people to consider voting for a black man. By 2008, there were enough white people where the attitude had changed.

02:20:10.560 Where they would say, you know, I like that guy's policies. Yeah, he's got my vote. Check. Right? So it took that number of white people to join in with us to get him in the White House. We could not have done it by ourselves. That collective voice. All right?

02:20:25.820 You look at the protests starting in the 60s or 50s, whatever. Okay? We always saw a smattering of white people with us. Today, look at the protests. You see a mass of white people. And as a result, changes are happening a lot faster. All right? 0.59

02:20:47.820 In the past, the establishment, that's a polite word of saying the white power structure. All right? They look and they see the protests. It's just about a sea of black people with a few sprinkles of salt amongst the pepper. Right? They're like this. They didn't want to hear what we had to say. They just shut us down. They didn't care. We can march all day, all year long. They don't care. All right? 0.87

02:21:14.120 Now, back then, if a police officer were to be charged, let alone fired in those rare instances, it took months, months of investigation, this, that, and the other, and then maybe the guy would get fired and convicted. Today, it's happening boom, boom, boom, like that. Within a week, the cops charge, he's fired, ba-ba-boom. What's the difference?

02:21:39.900 Look at the protesters. Look at the protesters. The power structure, the establishment is seeing more and more people who look like them. So now they're pulling out the earplugs or they're putting in their hearing aids and they're listening.

02:21:53.900 They're listening. They're like, oh, damn. Maybe we better reconsider this. And so now change is happening. And while these protests in the wake of George Floyd, and people are now understanding, listen, George Floyd was not an anomaly. We've had thousands of George Floyds. 1.00

02:22:13.300 Of course. Yeah, this George Floyd is the straw that broke the camel's back. And coronavirus, of course, helped with that. Because people are not at work. They're at home. They're watching TV. They're seeing this unfold before them.

02:22:27.940 And they had time to do some introspection and reflect on it. Whoa, whoa, this is wrong. Now I get it. Now I understand what they've been talking about all these years, about police brutality and blah, blah, blah. I need to get out there in the street and protest.

02:22:43.060 And despite the coronavirus being out there, these people are so committed to getting out there and protesting to do what's right.

02:22:53.260 So we see this big sea of white people that, again, there's that collective voice that gets things done.

02:22:59.360 And while the protests were geared predominantly towards police misbehavior and police racial profiling and all that stuff, there has been a larger ripple effect than we've ever seen in this country.

02:23:12.980 The ripple effect being NASCAR banning the Confederate flag, legislation to take down those statues, the state of Mississippi, of all places, taking the Confederate flag out of their flag.

02:23:27.700 And whoever heard of such Mississippi, they're doing it, you know. 0.98

02:23:32.660 I remember seeing the movie Mississippi Burning. Wow.

02:23:36.940 Yeah. And Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben's food products changing the labels. All kinds of things are happening.

02:23:45.480 You know, more conversations about this. That's that ripple effect. What caused that ripple effect? That collective voice.

02:23:51.900 So that's the key. People coming together and working together is what creates change a lot quicker than people working by themselves.

02:24:02.560 And see, that's what I was trying to stress to those people in that movie, Accidental Courtesy.

02:24:08.680 We need to work together. You do what you got to do for systemic racism.

02:24:13.320 I do what I have to do for individuals. Let's let's cooperate and coordinate.

02:24:17.640 You know, together we can beat this problem. But how are we going to beat it? Fighting each other. Stupid.

02:24:25.300 That's what they weren't getting. And now we see how it works. Work together on the common problem. 1.00

02:24:31.800 You know, and so that's what we need to focus on. The collective voice.

02:24:37.380 Like I said, talking at somebody, talking about somebody and talking past somebody doesn't work.

02:24:44.620 Talking with somebody is the key. Working together.

02:24:49.600 Respect and a willingness to listen. And as you say, I'm going to use your quote.

02:24:54.540 When two enemies are talking, they're not fighting.

02:24:57.880 It's when talking ceases, the ground becomes fertile for violence.

02:25:02.620 So keep the conversation going.

02:25:07.020 Daryl Davis, any final thoughts that you would love people to understand?

02:25:13.160 Or is there anything that I have not asked you that you would want people to know about you?

02:25:17.840 Yeah, we'll consider this part one. Eventually we're going to do part two.

02:25:21.500 Hell yeah. I love it.

02:25:24.740 Daryl Davis, thank you for being a part of Valuetainment.

02:25:27.440 Hey, thank you for having me. I really, really appreciate it.

02:25:29.380 You know, and it's people like, you know, like you who are not afraid to talk about these tough topics and things like that.

02:25:36.900 Who are willing to put yourself on the line and take criticism for giving people like me a voice.

02:25:42.240 Things like that.

02:25:43.720 You know, you are an agent of change.

02:25:45.620 And these are the things, you know, that we need.

02:25:47.200 More people are willing to have these conversations.

02:25:49.300 Because these conversations should have been had decades ago.

02:25:52.480 Had they been had decades ago, we wouldn't be in this situation right now.

02:25:55.880 But we've been sweeping it under the carpet, locking it in the closet, and it's become a pressure cooker.

02:26:01.720 And so, you know, if you don't release that valve, you know what happens?

02:26:04.600 It explodes.

02:26:05.780 And we saw that explosion in Charlottesville.

02:26:07.520 We're seeing it right now on the streets of Portland and wherever else.

02:26:11.480 So it's the people like you are our pressure cooker valves, you know, that release the steam.

02:26:18.500 And I really appreciate all the work that you do.

02:26:20.840 Well, it's an honor even sitting down with you.

02:26:23.240 So everyone needs to see the movie, Accidental Courtesy.

02:26:29.820 Is that where you want people to, where do you want me to send people to?

02:26:32.940 What would you like people to see?

02:26:34.380 Is there a book that you want?

02:26:35.840 Yeah, they can go on Amazon or iTunes and get Accidental Courtesy.

02:26:41.740 Also, I have my new book coming out.

02:26:44.320 My first book, Clandestine Relationships, is out of print.

02:26:47.780 But the new book will have all the information from the old book and new stuff as well.

02:26:52.660 It will be called The Klan Whisperer. 0.99

02:26:55.600 The Klan Whisperer. 0.96

02:26:56.980 Yeah, it's in the editing process right now.

02:26:59.700 So it should be up in 2021.

02:27:01.720 Okay.

02:27:02.120 Everybody will read it.

02:27:03.260 It is 36 years of my encounters and my odyssey into the world of the Ku Klux Klan and neo-Nazis and other white supremacists.

02:27:13.040 Well, let's do a round two when that book is ready to be launched.

02:27:16.200 You got it.

02:27:16.700 And we'll have this conversation again.

02:27:18.800 Absolutely.

02:27:19.540 Thank you so much.

02:27:20.680 The rock and roll race reconciliator.

02:27:25.040 Yeah.

02:27:25.620 The infamous, the notorious Daryl Davis.

02:27:28.980 Triple D.

02:27:29.600 Thank you.

02:27:30.180 Thank you for being a part of Valuetainment.

02:27:32.280 Take care.

02:27:32.900 Bye-bye.

02:27:33.220 What a powerful interview I just had with Daryl Davis.

02:27:36.520 You'd be hard pressed to find a more unique story than his.

02:27:39.880 One thing that comes to mind in our interview, I asked him in America today, who is more likely to get along, blacks and whites or Democrats and Republicans?

02:27:47.700 He said, without a doubt, blacks and whites, which was A, encouraging to hear, but B, pretty sad to hear how politically divided we are in America today.

02:27:57.520 One thing I would implore you to do is use his two ingredients for success with other people, respect and listening to others.

02:28:06.620 Respect and a willingness to listen.

02:28:09.300 With that being said, I would love to get your thoughts below.

02:28:11.920 Please comment below.

02:28:12.800 And if you have not seen Pat's interview with Thomas Jefferson descendant Lucian Trescott, check that out right here.

02:28:19.360 And if you have not subscribed to the channel, please do so below.

02:28:22.460 Thank you for watching, and we will see you next time.

Valuetainment - October 14, 2020

Why A Black Man Attends KKK Rallies & Befriends Klansmen

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