Valuetainment - Why Is Karl Marx So Popular In Universities？

00:00:00.640 I never thought that I would be talking about why they shouldn't support communism.

00:00:05.680 I thought we would have learned that lesson over 30 years ago.

00:00:08.800 How would you define socialism?

00:00:11.040 Common ownership of the means of production.

00:00:13.360 So, historically, socialism, that's what it is.

00:00:16.640 USSR, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

00:00:20.000 It's the final transitionary step to communism.

00:00:22.880 Do you think America is eventually going to get to the point of losing citizens?

00:00:25.680 Possibly. I mean, Ronald Reagan said,

00:00:27.600 if we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to.

00:00:30.160 This is the last stand on Earth.

00:00:32.080 Well, it's true. If we lose freedom here, where else are we going to go to?

00:00:35.360 In fact, Ronald Reagan came from an era where people could disagree.

00:00:39.600 But you get this kind of mob media platform,

00:00:43.040 this culture of intimidation, of cancel, and it starts going after people.

00:00:47.920 And I find that one of the more disturbing things about America today.

00:00:52.640 And also, two people just aren't well-read.

00:00:55.040 They're not taking the time to research things.

00:00:57.440 But this is the kind of culture that we're in.

00:00:59.840 30 plus years after the collapse of communism,

00:01:02.800 we should not be having the debate as to whether or not communism is bad.

00:01:06.960 And the fact that we are shows we're really in trouble as a country.

00:01:10.320 We have a special guest with us here today. He is Paul Kanger, who is the bestselling author,

00:01:19.920 professor, historian, and commentator. And we're going to focus on two topics today. One topic

00:01:24.720 is going to be Karl Marx, which he wrote a book that just came out, I think, August of 2020,

00:01:28.880 a few months ago, thousand plus reviews on Amazon. It's been a big hit. It's called The Devil in Karl

00:01:33.280 Marx, Communism's Long March of Death, Deception, and Infiltration. And we're going to focus on a

00:01:38.000 second individual in today's interview. And that is Reagan, Ronald Reagan, which he,

00:01:43.280 Paul, wrote a book called The Crusader, Ronald Reagan and the Fall of Communism in 2006, which is

00:01:49.040 turning into a movie starring Dennis Quaid. It's going to have Jon Voight and a lot of other folks

00:01:54.240 in a great lineup of, but it's based on the book that my guest today wrote. With that being said,

00:01:59.280 Paul, thank you so much for being a guest on Valley Team.

00:02:01.040 Well, thank you, Patrick. I'm very impressed with you, your background, and it's a joy to be with you.

00:02:06.240 Thanks.

00:02:06.640 Thank you. Yeah. I've, you know, I've watched your videos and the way you explain things. I told you

00:02:11.760 this off, you know, before the interview getting started, I said, you're extremely necessary today,

00:02:17.200 and I hope the audience gets a lot out of our interview. So, you know, Paul, if we can start,

00:02:22.080 what makes somebody like you want to, a historian can study a lot of different things. It can be war,

00:02:29.360 some are World War I, some two, some it's a different war, some it's military, some it's history

00:02:35.840 having to do with different characters, but why the focus on Karl Marx and Ronald Reagan?

00:02:42.400 Well, that's a good question, Patrick. So I, it goes, it goes back to, I'd say my kind of formative

00:02:47.840 years in college. I was in college in the late 1980s. I went to the University of Pittsburgh,

00:02:54.000 where I, where I was pre-med and I, I worked for the organ transplant team at the University of

00:03:00.160 Pittsburgh. So I know you probably didn't expect me to say this, right? This to be part of my answer,

00:03:04.960 but, but I was, I, the Dr. Thomas Starzl was the organ transplantation pioneer. They did 80 to 90%

00:03:13.760 of the world's organ transplants at the University of Pittsburgh in the 1980s. So, so I was there,

00:03:19.200 right? This is, this is my life. This is my career. This is where I'm going. I'm going to go to medical

00:03:24.800 school. I, I, I worked 30 hours a week while I was in college for three years. And then when I graduated,

00:03:34.000 I worked full-time, did research on immunology, anti-rejection drugs, but it was 1988, 1989. And it

00:03:43.280 was the collapse of communism, the end of the cold war, the end of the Reagan presidency, Mikhail Gorbachev,

00:03:49.840 Margaret Thatcher, Pope John Paul II, Lech Walesa in Poland, Vaclav Havel in Czechoslovakia,

00:03:56.320 the solidarity movement, the Iran Contras, the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, all this stuff, right?

00:04:02.000 So I was really intrigued by it. And well, I could say a lot, I don't want to go off on too much of a

00:04:07.440 tangent, but I I'll tell you, I was non-political. I was non-ideological. And I knew all these great

00:04:15.040 debates were going on around me. I started following them. I started paying attention.

00:04:19.680 I wrote a letter to the editor, to the student newspaper, which was called the Pitt News, which

00:04:24.320 was a daily newspaper published four days a week, Monday through Thursday. The editor said,

00:04:29.520 hey, I really like this. I'm going to, I'm going to run this as an article, if you don't mind.

00:04:34.320 And he ran it as an article. It was called, by the way, it was about the homeless. And as a, as a

00:04:41.280 science major, a non-political person, non-ideological person, I heard these people

00:04:46.800 on campus who I was told were, were liberals, right? And they were blaming the homeless problem

00:04:52.480 on Ronald Reagan. And I thought, how is this? What year was this? What year was this when you

00:04:58.400 wrote this? Just curious. So this would have been 1988, 1989. Got it. So the liberals are blaming Ronald

00:05:03.840 Reagan, homeless, continue. I'm sorry. Right, right. So, so I did a little research on it,

00:05:09.200 like a science major would do, right? So I tried to find out. I read some different publications.

00:05:13.840 I talked to some homeless people. I called the local homeless shelter. And I asked the lady at

00:05:18.720 the local homeless shelter, I said, hey, so I'm doing some research on this as a student. I asked

00:05:23.760 her a bunch of questions. And at the end of this, Patrick, at the end of the interview, I said, okay,

00:05:28.320 so why is this Ronald Reagan's fault? And she said, young man, Ronald Reagan's fault. These people are

00:05:35.440 mentally ill. I don't know what they're teaching you at that university, right? Well, I know they're

00:05:40.800 not all mentally ill, but this was her response, right? And, and, and so I wrote this up in the

00:05:45.600 student newspaper for the student. They published it as a column and I got called a racist, probably for

00:05:52.080 the first time in my life, right? I got called a fascist. So the next article that I wrote, by the way,

00:05:59.040 this is symptomatic of, I think me and you both, right? When they attacked me, I didn't crawl under

00:06:04.960 a rock. I said, I said, dammit, that's not right. Right. I'm going to respond to this. So I wrote

00:06:11.600 another article on, on arming the Contras in Nicaragua, which I thought seemed like a common

00:06:17.040 sense thing to do. I didn't know why people on campus were protesting this. Why wouldn't you oppose

00:06:21.680 communism? I wrote that piece and I got called a Nazi of all things, a Nazi, right? A fascist.

00:06:28.880 I remember my, my father picking me up from, from class on a Friday afternoon, giving me a ride

00:06:34.080 home. He said, Hey, how's that newspaper column thing going that you're doing? I said, Oh, pretty,

00:06:38.620 pretty good, dad. I said, you know, this is amazing. I got called a Nazi for the last column I wrote.

00:06:44.260 He said, Oh, what? I said, a Nazi, a Nazi. I still remember him looking at me in the car, a Nazi.

00:06:50.260 Yeah. I said, yeah. Yeah. He said, what are you writing about Hitler? I said, no, I'm not writing

00:06:54.380 about Hitler. Dad. I said, there's these people on campus, they're called liberals. And when

00:06:58.820 you disagree with them, they savage you. They call you the worst names in the book. They're

00:07:04.500 calling me all these different names. And he said, well, you know, hang in there. I said,

00:07:08.560 Oh, I'm going to hang in there. So I continued to write. And then pretty soon I ended up becoming

00:07:13.300 the campus conservative, the editorial page editor. They called me all these different names. And here's

00:07:19.020 the big picture to kind of long answer to your question. It was the end of the cold war. It was the

00:07:23.300 collapse of communism. It was 1989. So this is what I wrote about. And I became really,

00:07:29.320 really intrigued with the end of the cold war, communism, all these different ideologies and

00:07:35.100 long process. I'll sum this up in 30 seconds. This was long and agonizing, but I decided not

00:07:41.420 to go to medical school to instead go to graduate school. I went to American university in Washington,

00:07:47.080 the school of international service and took up studying international affairs, the Soviet union,

00:07:54.600 Eastern Europe, the middle East. I teach middle East politics to this day at Grove city college

00:07:59.520 in Grove city, Pennsylvania. And, and I, that became sort of my calling, I guess that's what I

00:08:05.180 started writing books on. And I started writing books specifically on the collapse of communism,

00:08:10.060 the Reagan presidency, end of the cold war. And Patrick, I thought I'd be writing from communism,

00:08:16.760 from a historical perspective, right? This is bad. This is evil. Here's how many people this

00:08:22.040 ideology killed so forth. I never thought that in the year 2021, I would be talking about trying to

00:08:29.600 teach people why this is bad, why they shouldn't support communism. I thought we would have learned

00:08:35.240 that lesson over 30 years ago. Let me, let me ask you this, by the way, powerful right there on your

00:08:41.060 testimony, how you came about what a timing, 88, 89 Reagan communism clashed. And it makes sense,

00:08:46.760 to why wanting to study those two figures, but question for you, 88, 89 versus today, 88, 89,

00:08:54.180 we didn't see what happened on campus. If there was no videos, if somebody was protesting against you,

00:08:59.120 we didn't see any of that. That was taking place around the country. We didn't see that hardcore

00:09:02.960 liberal. The media would have to go there to record it versus today. How big of a difference is it

00:09:08.240 between 88, 89 versus 2020, 2021? Well, I started seeing a lot of this stuff back then. And that

00:09:15.620 was when the very first article by Dinesh D'Souza on the cover of Atlantic Monthly, right? Which is the

00:09:22.940 Atlantic magazine. And that was his book, Illiberal Education. That was sort of the start of the political

00:09:29.460 correctness movement. And it's funny that we're having this conversation. I'm a senior editor for the

00:09:34.180 American Spectator. I'm writing the history of the American Spectator, which I read in the late 1980s.

00:09:39.920 And I was going back through that period, 89, 90. And I went back and grabbed from an old box in my

00:09:47.400 basement, the articles that I wrote for my student newspaper. And the last one that I wrote was titled

00:09:53.280 something like, Favorite Columnist, which is like a sarcastic thing, right? Says Goodbye to Some

00:09:59.540 unthoughtful words, not with some unthoughtful words, to some unthoughtful words. And I went through

00:10:05.200 words like fascist, Nazi, racist, homophobe, hater. You could get called all these words,

00:10:13.300 even if you weren't these things, right? Just for simply opposing liberals and leftists on this stuff.

00:10:21.020 So this sort of demonization of opponents, that was already going on. I think the difference now,

00:10:27.620 what's so dangerous and sad about the current period is because of social media and media platforms

00:10:33.720 today, you can really get a quite literal, right, Twitter mob against somebody. And, you know, people

00:10:41.140 can come after you en masse by the thousands and millions. And there just wasn't that sort of, you

00:10:47.080 know, alacrity speed of protest, of organizing that you see today. But that stuff was out there

00:10:56.260 back then. And I remember too, one more, June 1989, two things in June 1989. The people of Poland held

00:11:06.080 free and fair elections, all right, which had been promised at Yalta in 1945, 44 years later, all right?

00:11:13.160 That same week, everybody forgets this was the same week, Tiananmen Square happened in China. And I

00:11:20.040 remember the Chinese students on my campus, University of Pittsburgh, who came up to me as the conservative

00:11:27.380 that they knew of on the student newspaper. And they said, we're looking to demonstrate. We're

00:11:32.780 looking to hold a protest. We want some people to march with us. How do we find the protesters? And I

00:11:39.660 kind of laughed, Patrick, because I thought, you know, these guys aren't going to protest this,

00:11:43.720 right? I mean, they're protesting arming the Contras. You know, they're protesting apartheid in South

00:11:50.200 Africa, right? But they're not on the streets protesting what's going on in Tiananmen Square.

00:11:54.960 And these poor kids, they protested, they marched alone. And they marched alone on Pitt campus. They had

00:12:02.100 paper bags over their heads to conceal their identities. They wore bandanas over their mouths so

00:12:08.180 the regime back home wouldn't know who they were. But that was one of those lessons, too, that

00:12:13.180 the American left, man, on a dime, they would protest what was happening in Chile under Pinochet,

00:12:21.000 right? Years earlier, under Cuba, under Batista in the 50s, right? What was going on in South Africa?

00:12:27.980 But you get, you know, a communist crackdown on pro-democracy demonstrators in Beijing. You know,

00:12:33.740 if you pressed them and said, this is bad, right? They might say, yeah, it's bad. But they weren't

00:12:37.440 marching in the streets over it. You know, so a lot of that stuff that we're seeing today

00:12:42.740 was around. It's been around for years. Let me ask you. So I got three questions for you. So let

00:12:48.380 me write down the third one so I can kind of get to it here. Okay. So number one question is the

00:12:54.140 following. When I was in the army, they told me when you go in, as much as I used to curse a lot,

00:12:58.720 because I, you know, pre-25, I cursed, I was a cursing machine. So when you go in the army,

00:13:03.540 you know how they say they curse like, you know, you curse like a sailor or, you know, all that stuff.

00:13:07.740 Everybody dropped the F-bomb. And when I tell you F-bomb, it was like every other word, like

00:13:11.420 adjective, adverb, noun. It doesn't matter what it was, right? I grew up with guys like that.

00:13:15.860 Okay. So I was one of those guys. Yeah. I got to tell you, Paul, after about a couple of weeks,

00:13:20.840 I never heard the F-word anymore. Like I couldn't even hear it. So I get out of the army. I'm working

00:13:26.800 at Valley Total Fitness and Chatsworth. My friend at the time, Fernando says, Pat, do you know how foul of a

00:13:31.960 language you got? I said, what do you mean? He says, every other word out of your mouth is,

00:13:35.800 and you're talking to customers like this. Like, let me see what I can effing get you.

00:13:39.320 And I love it. Hey, what's up, mother? And I'm like, so go on. You just did it again. I'm like,

00:13:43.060 oh, she says, you may want to kind of, if you want to kind of become a manager here one day,

00:13:46.280 you got to clean up your language. So, you know what? I wasn't aware of it. So I kind of worked

00:13:50.360 on it. Here's my point. Do you think the weight behind the word Nazi, racist, bigot has lost its weight

00:13:59.400 because everybody's thrown around nowadays where it no longer has the weight it once had? Or do you think

00:14:04.340 it still carries weight? Yeah, it should carry far less weight. And I mean, especially today where

00:14:12.340 you can get called that for anything, for any reason. And this is something that I've tried to

00:14:18.660 tell liberal friends of mine for years, right? You call somebody a fascist, right? Well, watch out

00:14:24.540 because when the real McCoy comes along someday, no one's going to believe you when you call out

00:14:28.920 somebody who's really a fascist. You call everyone a racist, no one's going to believe you

00:14:33.720 when someone comes along who's genuinely a racist. And by the way, I say this to conservative friends

00:14:38.880 a lot. Just because someone's a liberal, you disagree with them. Don't call them a commie,

00:14:44.460 right? You know, communism is a very unique, specific thing. You know, you might call them a radical

00:14:50.640 lefty, right? Call them a lefty crazy, call them a loony left, something like that. But, you know,

00:14:55.580 don't fling that kind of language around. Both sides need to be more careful and thoughtful about

00:15:00.320 their rhetoric and their names. But the left in particular, I mean, you know, I've had people

00:15:05.120 say to me, I've heard this more in the past six months or so, especially after the Trump

00:15:11.520 administration, right? That people just simply no longer take that charge of racists seriously,

00:15:19.480 because the left has absolutely so abused it and annihilated it that it doesn't carry the weight

00:15:26.600 that it should.

00:15:28.900 Yeah, it's funny you say that. I had David Horowitz on. You know, David Horowitz, who is a pretty well-known...

00:15:34.480 You had him at Grove City College, yeah, a couple of years ago. Amazing, yep.

00:15:38.420 Yeah, I had him on and he kept saying, everybody, the Democrats are communists. I said, you can't say

00:15:42.540 that. He says, I'm telling you they're coming. I don't believe every one of them is because we're

00:15:46.560 losing them. He says, everybody keeps saying. So anyways, we had a nice, interesting conversation

00:15:49.640 together on, because I agree with you on the fact that we're also labeling everybody. Not

00:15:53.600 everybody's in the same box. Second question for you on this side here. So for me, as a person

00:15:58.760 that's a business owner, I'm an entrepreneur. I have to always get to the bottom of the issue

00:16:01.980 because you can fix issues on the surface. It keeps reappearing, but you got to get to the

00:16:07.160 bottom of the route to figure out exactly why this issue keeps surfacing. So you said this

00:16:12.420 has been going on for a while. Okay. So I'm 42. Okay. I came to the States November 28th,

00:16:18.640 1990, which means I don't know pre-November 29th. Matter of fact, I didn't even follow

00:16:24.200 politics for quite some time. So go even past that, right? If this has been going on forever,

00:16:31.640 has this been going on forever as in since biblical times, pre-biblical times? Meaning, are we always

00:16:37.160 going to go through this 20 years from now, 40 years from now, 80 years from now, 300 years from

00:16:40.740 now, 800 years from, 1,000 years from now, because it's a cyclical cycle of one person makes the

00:16:44.760 money. The other one says it's unfair. He feels envious. Let's take the money and give it to

00:16:48.020 everybody else. So it's a constant pendulum that we'll go through and it's never ending. Or

00:16:52.520 is it any way different today than it was before 40 years from now, 80 years from now, 100 years from

00:17:00.300 now, 500 years from now, 500 years ago? Well, I do think it's worse now than ever, and it's getting

00:17:06.360 worse. But like, for example, yesterday in class, I teach a course on Marxism. We're talking about the

00:17:12.220 Hollywood 10 and every single member of the Hollywood 10 was, was a, was a member of Communist

00:17:18.640 Party USA. We had their five digit Communist Party USA numbers. In fact, they were presented before the

00:17:25.540 members of Hollywood 10 when they were speaking to Congress, October and November, 1947, House

00:17:31.700 Committee of Non-American Activities. John Howard Lawson, who was one of the worst of them, when he

00:17:37.000 was called in to testify after telling all of his liberal friends in Hollywood, Humphrey Bogart, Lauren

00:17:42.020 Bacall, Danny Kaye, Gene Kelly, Judy Garland, some of these wonderful actors and actresses, who, by the

00:17:50.240 way, were liberals, right? They were not communists, right? They were progressives. But he was telling

00:17:54.340 them, I'm not a communist. These right wing fanatics in Washington, I'm not that. I'm not. I'm like you.

00:18:01.200 So he got up there and he testified before Congress and they said, Mr. Lawson, here on

00:18:05.800 this billboard, here on this poster board, here's your Communist Party USA number. Here's

00:18:11.620 all the checks you wrote out to Communist Party USA. Here's your dues. Here's your application.

00:18:16.620 And John Howard Lawson, Patrick, you know what he did? He kind of stirred in his seat and

00:18:20.300 he yelled, Nazis, right? This is like, this is like the Reichstag fire in Berlin. He just

00:18:28.960 started calling him names, right? He just started calling. And these guys, all that they had done

00:18:34.820 was expose them as being a communist. So what did he do? He called them all these names. Probably

00:18:39.800 would have called him a homophobe if that name had existed back then, right? So you see this among

00:18:44.840 the kind of extreme left for quite some time. I'll go back a little further. Karl Marx, I spend a lot

00:18:52.220 of time on this in The Devil and Karl Marx. Marx and these Marxists like to say that business people

00:18:59.120 are capitalists who are obsessed with money, right? No, guys like Marx and Marxists and communists,

00:19:08.340 they're the ones who are obsessed with money. That's all that these guys think about. You read some of

00:19:14.240 Marx's anti-Semitic statements. They are chilling, right? He says things like, what is the worldly

00:19:20.680 God of the Jew? Money. What does the Jew worship? Haggling. And I read that and I think to myself,

00:19:28.340 no, Karl, you're the one that worships money, right? You're the one that's obsessed with money.

00:19:33.920 You're so obsessed with money that you can't even think enough about your own money. You think about

00:19:39.060 everybody else's money, right? You want a central government to come in and forcibly take it and

00:19:46.020 redistribute it. So it's funny. Oftentimes when they're yelling at you, hater, screaming at them,

00:19:52.000 and you're thinking, I'm not hating at all. I've got a smile on my face while you're talking to me.

00:19:56.540 They're projecting onto you what they're really feeling. And they do that a lot with money and

00:20:03.320 attacking people with property and attacking capitalists. A lot of this is a sort of self-projection.

00:20:09.560 And it's almost psychological by some of these individuals. Paul, what was communism called

00:20:14.000 pre-communism? That's a good question. And I had a professor in graduate school who used to like to

00:20:21.160 say that the Jacobins were the first communists, right? And so the Jacobins, of course, were there

00:20:28.000 in revolutionary France, beheaded 40,000 people by guillotine in one year between 1793 and 1794.

00:20:35.860 And of all things, today in the American left, one of the more popular avant-garde ideological

00:20:42.720 magazines is called the Jacobin. And they have a little meme with a guillotine. It's nothing to

00:20:49.480 laugh about, right? Nothing to laugh about. But Marx and Engels in 1848 published the Communist

00:20:55.200 Manifesto. And the Communist Manifesto was the official programmatic statement or manifesto

00:21:02.540 of the Communist League in that day, which was made up of about 48 people, all Germans, all men,

00:21:09.560 with the exception of Marx's wife. I think she was the only woman in the group. So at that point in

00:21:14.120 time, and people have tried to pin down who first used the word communism. The great Richard Pipes,

00:21:20.680 the Harvard historian, said that he believed it was coined in Paris in the 1840s. I don't know

00:21:27.420 exactly for sure. But Marx and Engels met in Paris in the 1840s. And they published the Communist

00:21:34.340 Manifesto in 1848.

00:21:36.340 Got it. So now, before we talk about Karl, before we talk about Reagan, let's focus on Karl here.

00:21:42.480 So who was Karl growing up, family, parents, upbringing, school? How was he in school? What

00:21:50.740 stories do we need to know about him that influenced him to become who he ended up becoming with writing

00:21:55.820 the book with Engels' Communist Manifesto?

00:21:57.720 Yeah, he was born in Trier, Germany, May 5th, 1818. So Trier is spelled like Trier, T-R-I-E-R.

00:22:04.720 And it was one of the most religious cities in all of Germany, very heavily Roman Catholic. In fact,

00:22:11.600 the ancient cathedral in Trier was built in the 320s. The 320s, not the 1320s, the 320s, around the year 330.

00:22:20.820 And it was built, financed by Helena, St. Helena, the mother of Constantine, of all things, who made a

00:22:28.760 pilgrimage to the Holy Land and came back with all sorts of artifacts. She believes that she found

00:22:36.420 the actual cross that Christ was crucified on, the actual crown of thorns, which to this day

00:22:42.780 allegedly is the cross of thorns that's in Notre Dame, in Paris. And she even believes that she

00:22:51.740 found the holy robe, which was the robe that Christ wore on the way to the crucifixion that the Roman

00:22:57.960 soldiers cast lots for at the feet of Christ at the crucifix. That holy robe is in the cathedral in

00:23:06.160 Trier. So Marx grows up in a very, very religious city. His father, the family was Jewish, many rabbis

00:23:15.380 in the family background, pretty faithful family. Father converted to Lutheranism, probably at least

00:23:23.020 in part under the social pressures of the day. But the father always believed in God, Patrick. And he

00:23:30.820 even said he would tell Carl, he'd say, you know, believing in God is a good thing for a young man,

00:23:36.260 Carl, right? It gives you some accountability, something beyond yourself, a sense of ethics,

00:23:41.940 right? Kind of a sense of absolute, something that you could follow. Carl was baptized around the age of

00:23:48.340 five, 1823, 1824, became a fairly passionate Christian through his teen years, and then fled the

00:23:57.640 faith in college, where probably the biggest influence in college was a very anti-Semitic theology

00:24:05.080 professor that he had named Bruno Bauer, who was such a bad theology professor that the other faculty

00:24:12.700 members ran him out of the college. He was teaching heresy. And so Bruno Bauer and his favorite student,

00:24:20.920 Karl Marx, together in 1841, started what they called an archives of atheism, a journal of atheism,

00:24:28.480 which quickly folded because they couldn't get any support for it. But at that point, he pretty much

00:24:35.120 put religion behind him in the 1840s, and became a pretty militant, aggressive atheist after that.

00:24:43.620 Was there a follow-up between him and his dad and his parents, or no?

00:24:46.020 Oh, yeah.

00:24:46.980 What was the follow-up? What happened?

00:24:48.440 I quote a chilling letter in The Devil and Karl Marx. I think it was March 2nd, 1837, March 1837.

00:24:56.640 And it's a letter between Marx and his father. And the father is very harsh toward him in that

00:25:03.320 letter. And I really think it's excessively harsh. But Marx loved his father, admired his father.

00:25:11.860 And after that, the father died not long after that. And Marx, from there on, looked at his parents,

00:25:19.340 while his mom, primarily for money. Marx was horrible about making money. An absolute deadbeat dad

00:25:27.920 who would not provide for his wife, would not provide for his children. Both his mother and his wife

00:25:34.180 expressed the wish that Karl would start earning some capital instead of just writing about capital.

00:25:40.040 He sent his wife out begging for money to his wife's in-laws. Karl went to his own in-laws.

00:25:48.040 The only way that Marx was able to do what he did was because of Friedrich Engels,

00:25:53.840 because Engels inherited a pile of money from his capitalist, wealthy, industrialist father.

00:25:59.380 And Engels became Marx's sugar daddy, his subsidizer. And frankly, Engels was pretty sick of it too,

00:26:07.060 the way that Karl all the time was pumping him for money constantly. Marx refused to earn a living.

00:26:15.680 The family, his wife, Jenny, Jenny's family was so upset at Karl's refusal to make any money that the family

00:26:24.380 lent their nursemaid, a girl named Helene DeMuth, who had grown up with Jenny. The family loaned her out

00:26:32.020 to Karl and Jenny, and they called her Lentgen. Karl refused to pay her a penny. And in fact,

00:26:40.640 Karl got her pregnant behind Jenny's back. And then Lentgen, Helene, had a baby. Karl refused to admit

00:26:49.180 that the child was his, and of course, refused to pay the child a penny of child support. So the type

00:26:57.640 of world that Marx was looking to create would have been a world where the government took care of

00:27:03.420 somebody like Karl. Well, he sat around on his butt with carbuncles and boils and refusing to bathe

00:27:11.480 and never earned a dollar. I mean, that's the type of world that he was looking to create for himself.

00:27:17.460 What was his logic? Like, what was his motive and logic behind that way of thinking?

00:27:22.660 In his own personal life? Yes. And the way he was like, I'm not, I'm refusing to help out my wife,

00:27:28.240 you know, anybody. What was his logic to say, I'm not moving. People need to take care of me,

00:27:32.440 not me taking care of them. Was it because he felt he was above people or because he felt people

00:27:37.460 owed him something because of being mistreated? What was it? I don't think it was the latter. He did feel

00:27:43.860 that people owed him something. He was, he was very bitter. And he was very angry and superior to

00:27:50.180 others. Oh, yeah. I mean, Marx was, it was hard for Marx ever to keep a friend. He eventually ran afoul

00:27:57.420 of everybody. I quote some of the vitriol between him and Mikhail Bakunin, who wrote God the State and

00:28:06.440 Revolution. No, I'm messing that up. But, but he was another militant atheist and said, oh, here's

00:28:12.260 Carl flinging his bile at me now, like he does at everybody. And Ingalls was one of the only people

00:28:19.320 who hung with him. And in fact, when, when Ingalls mistress died, Ingalls, Ingalls did not believe in

00:28:25.760 marriage. So he refused to marry any of the women that he lived with, but he loved this woman. And Carl

00:28:31.960 wrote him a note where, and even the Marx biographers, the hagiographers, the people who

00:28:37.160 like Marx say, oh, this was really offensive. This was a low blow by Marx. Marx in the first one or two,

00:28:43.400 three lines acknowledges the death of Ingalls' girlfriend, and then gets on to the next 20,

00:28:50.260 30 lines with a more important question of asking Ingalls for more money. And Ingalls was so offended by

00:28:56.440 this. He wrote back this diatribe letter. Even my capitalist friends show more sympathy than you.

00:29:04.180 And, and he almost cut Marx off permanently at that point, but he came to realize that Marx was,

00:29:10.660 this is how Marx was. He always thought about himself.

00:29:15.020 What was, what was Ingalls reasoning for wanting to financially support Marx? What was,

00:29:21.160 what's in it for him? Yeah. The cause, the cause of communism. And when Ingalls first met Marx,

00:29:29.120 he, he, he referred to him in a poem as the monster of 10,000 devils, the monster of 10,000 devils.

00:29:36.800 And he talks about this poem, this black man from Trier, right? He's using black here in the,

00:29:43.940 in the sense of darkened, right? Like, like darkened figure, this foreboding presence.

00:29:48.560 We had the strange allure too. And Ingalls faith story is much more complicated. He had grown up

00:29:55.320 a Christian, never really wanted to leave the faith and always had this kind of,

00:29:59.860 so he felt Carl like pulling him over to the dark side almost, but they formed this partnership,

00:30:06.280 the communist manifesto. I quote in the book, Marx, Ingalls writing to Marx, Carl, give a little

00:30:13.000 more thought to the communist confession of faith. I think we should drop the catechetical form and just

00:30:20.520 call it the manifesto. So they even talked about this document that they were writing in religious

00:30:26.040 like language. So this became something deeper for them. This was their calling, right? This,

00:30:32.940 this was their vocation. This was, this was like a, almost a religious enterprise to them.

00:30:37.460 And they hung in there and became lifetime partners and wrote pretty much everything together.

00:30:45.020 What, the good stuff that's written about Marx, who wrote it and what good things did they say

00:30:50.280 about Marx? Well, all the recent Marx biographers over the past 20 years are all pretty much

00:30:56.300 hagiographers, right? They just, they idolize the guy. These are like biographies for saints. They,

00:31:03.320 they, and you really got to go through and kind of pull out the stuff from all of these to put

00:31:10.160 together the puzzle. It's the, it's amazing the stuff that they ignore. They ignore all of,

00:31:16.140 all of Marx's poetry about the devil, which is what I focus on quite a bit. But earlier Marxist

00:31:22.760 biographers and historians talked about it, including Robert, gee, why can't I think of his name?

00:31:31.140 It's terrible. But his biography of Marx, 1968, he published Robert Payne, Simon and Schuster,

00:31:37.600 New York university press, NYU press, but, but the, but the Marxist biographers today,

00:31:42.820 they tend to go very easy on them because they like Marx. Marx is their guy and they're writing

00:31:49.340 kind of a cream. How do they paint them? What picture are they painting with them? Like even let's

00:31:54.760 say they're trying to write, sell them as a, this figure who wanted to take care of the little guy.

00:32:00.160 How do they sell him? Like what stories do they have to say that one time he saw a bird and it

00:32:06.200 was on the ground hurt and he picked them up and brought them home and fed them for three months

00:32:10.500 and build a ring and he winged and he flew off. Like, is there, what stories are they telling about

00:32:15.980 him? Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, these, these are in many way love letters. In fact,

00:32:21.820 one of the Marx biographers, recent ones, her name is Mary Gabriel. And she wrote, I think it's called

00:32:28.120 Love and Capital, which is a biography of Karl Marx and his wife. And I got that and I thought,

00:32:34.480 how can this be a Valentine, right? I mean, how in any way that'd be fair to Gabriel. She does talk

00:32:41.740 about some of the sordid stuff, the bad stuff, the cheating, you know, Marx not fulfilling his role

00:32:48.660 as a husband, letting down Jenny. But at the same time, you know, she really drills down and

00:32:53.720 accentuates and focuses on the nicer things about them. So she doesn't ignore everything.

00:33:01.440 Some other Marx biographers though, they're, they're pretty bad. I'll give you an example.

00:33:05.260 I don't want to call this guy out by name, but, but I focus on a moment between Marx and a guy named

00:33:11.900 Karl Heinzen, who was a fellow socialist and, and Marx like corners Heinzen in his apartment.

00:33:19.240 And Heinzen said, he was staring at me with the eyes of a wet goblin, right? He almost described

00:33:24.860 in demonic terms. We had just drank a couple bottles of wine. Marx wouldn't let me out of the

00:33:30.820 apartment. And, and Marx is like taunting me. And, and, and this guy, Heinzen finally said,

00:33:36.200 if you don't get out of my way, I'm going to throw you down. And he had to slam Marx down and,

00:33:41.220 you know, break out of the apartment, got outside, went down the steps, got outside. And Marx is like

00:33:46.440 yelling at him from the apartment window. This biographer who tells this story, his first name

00:33:51.200 is Francis. He tells it, he thinks it's charming. He thinks the story is charming. And I read that and

00:33:57.460 I thought, what the, what the hell? How could, how could anybody, you know, I'm literally thinking

00:34:04.820 hell. I mean, the guy's describing Marx in like demonic terms.

00:34:09.920 I was like, did Marx like men? Did Marx like men or no? Was he attracted to men?

00:34:14.720 I don't, I've never seen that.

00:34:17.180 Okay. Just curious.

00:34:19.000 I know. I don't, I don't know. But how anybody, how two people, this is how two people could look

00:34:24.020 at something and one could say, oh man, this is chilling. This is all the other guys like,

00:34:27.760 oh, how charming. But I, I, I think it's the other guy's fault. I know I'm biased too, but

00:34:33.800 I look at that and I don't think this isn't charming. This isn't funny.

00:34:37.720 So, yeah. So let me, let me, let me go a little bit deeper in this. So now if you can just give us an

00:34:43.220 idea about what was the basic fundamental foundation of Marxism or communism.

00:34:48.700 Well, Marx and Engels said the entire communist theory or program may be summed up in a single

00:34:54.540 sentence. Abolition of private property. So there you go. I mean, that's, so if you had Marx and

00:35:02.000 Engels in the room and said, hey, in one sentence, describe communism. They'd say, well, that's easy.

00:35:07.220 We did in the communist manifesto, right? The entire communist theory may be summed up in the

00:35:11.640 single sentence. Abolition of private property. Beyond that, they had other basic little

00:35:17.380 definitions. Marx said, communism begins where atheism begins. And here, if I may read just a

00:35:23.880 couple of bullet points, this is Marx and the manifesto, Marx and Engels in the manifesto.

00:35:31.360 Communism represents the most radical rupture in traditional relations, by the way, which it sure does.

00:35:38.640 They acknowledge that communism, quote, seeks to abolish the present state of things, right? Seeks

00:35:46.600 to abolish the present state of things, of all things, right? I mean, this is key because we're

00:35:52.160 going from abolition of private property to abolishing the present state of things. So people who think,

00:35:59.340 and young people say this in surveys, well, communism's a pretty good idea. I mean, they talk

00:36:04.300 about love and sharing and sharing the wealth. No, read the book. They talk about abolishing the present

00:36:11.380 state of things. These guys aren't tinkerers. They're not talking about, like, increasing tax rates,

00:36:17.820 right? They're not talking about adding a couple of programs to the welfare state. Abolish the present

00:36:23.480 state of things.

00:36:24.260 What does that mean to you? What does that mean to you?

00:36:26.180 Well, in the case of when you read the totality of what they're writing, it is truly a totalitarian

00:36:35.560 philosophy. And totalitarian in the strictest sense of the word, a fundamental transformation

00:36:41.900 of human nature. I mean, they are really looking to redefine human nature. The final paragraph of the

00:36:48.520 Communist Manifesto, everybody remembers, workers of the world unite. You have nothing to lose but your

00:36:54.960 chains. They write this in the final paragraph. The communists openly declare that their ends can be

00:37:02.420 attained only by, now listen to this, only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions.

00:37:12.520 Okay? Our ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions.

00:37:21.940 I mean, you and I, right? We know this as scholars and intellectuals. You never say all about

00:37:29.540 anything, right? You might say, communists call for the forcible overthrow of those things in society

00:37:37.040 which are unjust, right? They want the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions.

00:37:44.800 And it marks, here's one more phrase in the manifesto, close of the manifesto, last page of the

00:37:50.040 manifesto. Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement against the existing

00:37:57.160 social and political order of things. Now you hear that and you think to yourself, this explains a lot,

00:38:03.700 right? You might be watching a particular rally on TV, a riot or whatever. You think, why is that guy

00:38:11.080 there with a hammer and sickle? What does that have to do with communism? Wait, they're protesting the

00:38:18.180 unjust death of George Floyd? What's the communists doing there? What does that have to do with communism?

00:38:25.360 Well, if whatever is going on, right, is some sort of movement against the existing social and political

00:38:31.600 order of things, these guys will be there, right? I mean, they'll team up. If it's redefining

00:38:39.780 marriage or gender or whatever else, something that you might think doesn't have anything to do with

00:38:45.420 capitalism or anything that these guys could have thought of in the 1840s, if it's about redefining

00:38:51.520 and annihilating the existing and social political order of things, they'll be there.

00:38:57.780 Paul, do you think he wrote this book with angles for them to experience the power themselves? Or was it

00:39:04.200 because I read somewhere where when this book was taken by, you know, Lenin, Stalin, all those guys,

00:39:09.380 it was almost like they wanted to take ownership for what this could happen, but Karl couldn't fulfill

00:39:15.220 his own prophecy. What was his long-term aspiration of writing this book? So the book came out in 1848,

00:39:22.180 so he had been 30 years old. He died in 1883. Ingalls died a little bit after that. So, you know,

00:39:28.900 he lives for 35 years after the publication of the book. And he talks in some of his glowing moments

00:39:36.040 about how communism will allow for him to fish in the morning, you know, farm in the afternoon,

00:39:44.200 raise cattle in the evening, criticize after dinner, right? He talks about it in this very

00:39:49.500 utopian language as to whether he would have lived to see it if he believed he lived to see it. I don't

00:39:54.800 know. But, you know, he talked about communism as this dialectical march of history, this inevitable

00:40:01.700 march. This is part of the point of communism. This is inevitable, they believe. This is the inevitable

00:40:06.680 logic and march of history. In fact, Ingalls called it, they called it scientific socialism.

00:40:13.620 And Ingalls said in his eulogy for Marx at Marx's funeral, he said, this is the Darwin of the social

00:40:19.280 sciences. He has done for the social sciences what Darwin did for evolutionary biology. This is a natural

00:40:25.820 evolution of history. So history would evolve from feudalism, slavery, from feudalism and slavery to

00:40:33.840 capitalism, to socialism, to communism, right? So socialism would be the final transitionary step

00:40:40.500 to communism. Lenin and the Bolsheviks, they get into power. Lenin at one point in January 1917 was

00:40:48.260 depressed. He said, I don't think I'll live to see the revolution in my lifetime. And then America

00:40:53.240 declared war, World War I, Woodrow Wilson, April 2nd, got a war declaration of Congress, April 6th, 1917.

00:41:01.260 The Tsar abdicated and the Germans put Lenin on a boxcar and let him pass through, dropped him in the

00:41:09.420 middle of St. Peter's Square. And by October of 1917, the Bolsheviks had their revolution.

00:41:15.920 So, and Marx and Lenin and Stalin and these guys, they believed, Lenin wrote a number of important

00:41:22.520 articles and statements on this. They believed that the revolution needed a vanguard, a regime,

00:41:29.400 a cadre, a group of individuals, a kind of an anointed group to raise the consciousness of the

00:41:34.920 masses and the workers, right? You couldn't just wait for this to transcend, for this to evolve.

00:41:41.560 No, we got to abolish this now. We got to abolish that now. We got to get to work. We got to take power.

00:41:48.020 Got it. So if you're, if you're looking at it right now, and you were to say the following

00:41:52.560 countries are full on communism, what would you say is full on communism based on their definitions?

00:41:59.660 Castro's Cuba, the Castro brothers, right? Raul now, Fidel died a couple of years ago.

00:42:05.900 The Kim's North Korea. Those are really textbook cases of totalitarian communism.

00:42:11.140 And, you know, and you get this all the time. Somebody watching this will probably complain,

00:42:16.960 a Marxist out there. They say this all the time, Patrick. Oh, well, that's not really communism,

00:42:21.780 right? That's an aberration of communism, right? Marx and Engels would have never supported

00:42:27.900 the gulags. Well, go to Marx and Engels 10 point, what do they call it? For the forcible overthrow of

00:42:35.580 all existing conditions, forcible overthrow, go through their 10 point plan. They say right there

00:42:41.260 at the 10 point plan. Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be affected except by means of despotic

00:42:46.840 inroads. I mean, they realize any, any, you're a business person, any business person, non-business

00:42:54.620 person, anybody should realize that if you make a call for the abolition of private property,

00:43:00.180 you're going to have to use guns and gulags. I mean, people aren't going to roll over for that.

00:43:05.580 And right then and there, you ought to say to yourself, if this is an ideology that's going

00:43:12.320 to require locking people up and killing them and putting them on trains and hurting them off

00:43:17.020 to concentration camps, maybe we shouldn't go there. Maybe this is a bad idea, right? But that's,

00:43:26.680 this is an ideology that necessitates prison camps. I think it's unavoidable.

00:43:31.400 So when you hear Chinese communistic party, what's communistic about China?

00:43:36.440 Yeah, that's a great question. And modern China is such a weird case, right? So you have,

00:43:42.640 you have a country that from 1949 to 76 under Mao and the cultural revolution, the great leap forward,

00:43:50.920 that was full blown Maoism, communism, as Mao saw it, right? The signification of Marxism,

00:43:57.580 as he saw it. And then Deng Xiaoping came in in 1978, 79, created what he called socialism with

00:44:04.320 Chinese characteristics, where they reversed the collectivization. They started doing mass

00:44:09.860 privatizations. They started freeing up the economy. And basically, they did what was no longer

00:44:16.520 economically communism. So you have the weird situation in China to this day, where you have a

00:44:22.180 country that's politically communist, a one party communist state, but not economically communist.

00:44:28.920 What does that mean? Yeah.

00:44:31.100 What does that mean? One political party, communist, government is communism. What does it mean?

00:44:35.160 Government is communism.

00:44:36.620 Well, and this is where, this is where the Soviet Union was, right? And, and the big thing that

00:44:41.460 Mikhail Gorbachev did in 1990, they abolished Article 10, or is it Article 6, of the Soviet Constitution,

00:44:48.280 which had a communist party monopoly on political power. And, you know, every, every communist state

00:44:55.620 ever, you can only have one political party. By the way, and you can't have free elections,

00:45:00.860 because people won't vote for communists, right? But I mentioned the, the, the elections in Poland in

00:45:08.840 June 1989 earlier, Patrick, they put 100 seats up for contested elections. Communists lost 100 out

00:45:15.600 of 100, okay? They didn't win a single seat, right? That's why Castro's Cuba won't hold elections.

00:45:22.180 This is why they don't hold elections, because people will vote communists out. People in the

00:45:26.020 West are like, communism's a pretty good idea. They don't live under it, right? Then why don't

00:45:30.480 the people ever vote for it? Why don't the leaders allow the people to vote for it? So in China, you have

00:45:36.000 a single party, communist party controlled state that doesn't allow political parties. The leader of the

00:45:42.340 party is the chairman, the president, whatever becomes the leader of the country. And they're

00:45:46.980 smart enough to realize that if they want an economy that works, you can't do true economic

00:45:54.420 communism. You got to allow enough free market reforms that you won't go broke and starve to

00:46:00.500 death. So it's weird what they're doing with communism in China. It's a very different thing.

00:46:04.960 And it's totally unlike North Korea or Cuba.

00:46:07.020 The way I see it is Chinese communistic party, let's just say the government is communism is

00:46:11.200 no freedom of speech, you can't have an opinion, you better do as they say, and everything else,

00:46:16.180 you can make money. But the moment, Jack Ma, you think you're bigger than us, and you give a speech

00:46:20.860 on October 24th of last year, calling out the regulators and the government employees, let me

00:46:25.940 tell you, here's your $2.8 billion fine, we have new regulation about monopoly, and we are shutting

00:46:31.280 you down and you're not going public and Ant Group's going to be overhaul and all this other

00:46:35.380 stuff. Because you crossed the line, you started thinking you're bigger than China, and you're not.

00:46:39.240 So zip it, don't say a single word against us, or else. Okay, fair enough. So now, who would you say

00:46:45.280 today in America, if you were to say, the most influential person in America, that follows and

00:46:53.620 would like to aspire one day for America to be what Karl Marx talks about in his book,

00:46:59.040 Communist Manifesto, who would aspire to see America become that, if you were to say big name,

00:47:06.120 not small name, big names? Well, that's a good question. I mean, for that sort of hardcore,

00:47:11.940 you'd have to go to like Communist Party USA, website is cpusa.org. You'd have to go to like

00:47:18.220 the Trotskyist Socialist Workers Party, the editors of People's World, which is peoplesworld.org,

00:47:26.340 that's the successor to the Daily Worker. There's a guy named Bob Avakian, who runs the Revolutionary

00:47:33.720 Communist Party. Revcom, they're known as. Bob Avakian is- Is he Armenian? Yeah, that's a good

00:47:41.900 question. It probably is Armenian. Yeah, A-V-A-K-I-A-N. If you look it up, Bob Avakian. They call

00:47:50.440 him Chairman Bob. And he's got at his website, his website, Revcom, Revolutionary Communist Party USA,

00:47:58.020 is all about him. So do you see it? Yeah. Yeah, that's him. He is Armenian, by the way. He's an

00:48:04.720 American-American lawyer, civil rights activist, and later judge on Alameda County, California Superior

00:48:12.360 Court. Interesting. Yeah. So he's a leader, and he is- When you saw last summer or last year, Patrick,

00:48:22.160 that Communist Party endorses Joe Biden for president, I remember I saw, I got that email

00:48:27.640 immediately because of who I am, right, in my email box. And I thought, wow, that's weird. Communist

00:48:32.060 Party USA. I know that they're for Biden and for the Democrat every four years, but they don't usually

00:48:36.920 endorse him because that hurts the endorsement hurts. So I clicked it. It wasn't Communist Party

00:48:42.340 USA. It was Chairman Bob. It was Bob Avakian. He's the one that endorsed Biden for that.

00:48:47.900 Is he a guy that debates and gets on different platforms and interviews or no?

00:48:53.120 I don't think he does much. From what I can tell, he's mostly solo and posts. For a while, he was in

00:48:59.600 exile and possibly in Paris. And I have often wondered if it was a self-imposed exile.

00:49:05.960 Well, we'll definitely reach out to him because we've had Slavoj Zizek on and we've had

00:49:10.420 Professor Richard Wolff on and a few other guys on. So I'm always curious to know,

00:49:16.400 to speak to them. So, okay. So I think, is it fair to say that the topic of communism is not

00:49:22.260 creating a lot of momentum in US at all? It's not like it's going to one day be a threat to US

00:49:27.680 again, like it was back in the days under Reagan. Well, here's the threat. And here, I think,

00:49:32.820 is the longer answer to your question. The people today who are sympathetic to communism

00:49:37.280 are calling themselves democratic socialists. And so if there's a kind of leader for that today,

00:49:43.780 first of all, there's Bernie Sanders. Okay. And Bernie Sanders was a formal presidential elector

00:49:50.440 to the Socialist Workers Party in 1980 and 1984. So 1980, when most normal Americans are deciding whether

00:49:58.100 to vote between Carter or Reagan, right? Bernie Sanders was supporting the Trotskyist Socialist

00:50:03.720 Workers Party. We've never found proof that Bernie was an actual member of the Socialist Workers Party.

00:50:11.560 But you look in his background, he's long been a supporter of it and probably knew better than to

00:50:16.400 actually formally join it. Daniel Greenfield of FrontPageMagazine.com, David Horowitz's Freedom Center,

00:50:22.340 Ron Radosh. Look up their writings on Bernie's time in a Stalinist kibbutz in Israel in the early 1960s.

00:50:32.180 So Bernie was way to the far left. Bernie was never a Democrat until 2016, when he sought the

00:50:37.960 Democratic Party's nomination. He was an independent. James Carville said, Bernie's not a Democrat. Why is

00:50:45.280 he running as a Democrat? He's not even a Democrat. He's not. He's not a Democrat. But he came in second

00:50:50.920 for the Democratic Party presidential nomination in 2016 and 2020. Bernie's a lifetime socialist. By

00:50:57.360 the way, one more thing, the Trotskyist Socialist Workers Party, they published the publication The

00:51:03.380 Militant. And The Militant, you can look up online Lee Harvey Oswald, the assassin of JFK, holding the

00:51:12.300 rifle in one hand that he shot JFK with and a copy of The Militant newspaper in the other hand. That's

00:51:18.820 been around for a long time. The other leaders of the sort of modern socialism, the democratic

00:51:24.480 socialism, as they call it, it's the Democratic Socialists of America. That's the group. That's

00:51:30.720 it. Patrick, that is it. Communist Party USA says that they've had a membership surge where they're

00:51:37.240 now at about 5,000 members. That sucks, right? The Democratic Socialists of America are in a true

00:51:45.020 membership surge and are now up to about 90,000 altogether. And their poster girl is Alexandria Ocasio

00:51:53.620 Cortez. And the other one, in fact, if they have poster girls, it's the squad. Ilhan Omar, who I think is

00:52:01.980 the most radical member of the House. And the third one is Rashida Tlaib, who said of Donald Trump,

00:52:10.800 we need to impeach the mother blank. And the fourth one is Eliana Presley, although I don't think

00:52:16.500 Presley is an actual democratic socialist, but she's part of the squad. So that's really, that's where the

00:52:23.360 momentum is today. And if you look up democratic socialists online, look up Democratic Socialists of

00:52:30.640 America, annual convention, communist international. And they're singing the international at the start

00:52:39.860 of their convention and calling each other comrades, right? So they'll say, oh, we're not

00:52:47.760 communists. We're not even socialists. We're democratic socialists. But when you hear the rhetoric and see

00:52:53.920 what they say and you see what they read, like Richard Pipe said, you know, there's no meaningful

00:52:59.000 distinction between socialism and communism. Oftentimes, there's indeed not.

00:53:04.540 So if we look at communism, and they define angles and, and Marx say the abolition of

00:53:11.480 abolition of property, right? And then you have the at the end of the book, forcible overthrows of all

00:53:18.600 existing social condition. Okay, right. It's fine. So we have those two definitions, then what how would

00:53:24.780 you define socialism? Yeah. And Lenin wrote in the state and revolution, which is his kind of opus.

00:53:33.980 And he wrote that in 1917, couldn't finish writing it because got because the revolution overtook them.

00:53:40.520 But he wrote in there, he said, as Marx said, and in communism, socialism is just the final

00:53:48.340 transitionary step before communism. So you know, it's one phase that leads to a higher phase.

00:53:56.560 Marion Smith, who was the executive director of Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation,

00:54:01.380 says, well, just as religious believers, Christians and Jews aspire to heaven,

00:54:07.300 the socialist aspires to communism, right? Communism is the sort of New Jerusalem. Yeah, that's,

00:54:13.500 that's the, that's the utopia. That's, that's the heaven on earth. So in true Marxist-Leninist theory,

00:54:19.560 socialism is the final transitionary step to communism. Now that said, you'll run into all

00:54:25.060 sorts of socialists today who say, well, but that's not the kind of socialist that I am,

00:54:31.060 right? I don't support communism. I wouldn't go that far. I support single payer healthcare.

00:54:37.980 I support maybe government taking over the energy sector. I support this. Well, all right, fine. But

00:54:47.200 if you type in a Google or Merriam-Webster socialism, what will pop up is socialism,

00:54:53.000 common ownership of the means of production. So, you know, historically socialism, that's what it is.

00:54:59.360 USSR, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. It's the final transitionary step to communism.

00:55:04.800 It makes you, it makes you wonder. So, so I'm a math guy. I'm a numbers guy because it makes sense

00:55:13.100 to me and it's absolute, right? So if I look at communism, communism, if I go on one side, 100% to

00:55:19.400 me is communism. Okay. So is there a way to come up with a number that tells us where socialism is when

00:55:26.260 it comes down to taxes? Has that study been done? Because Arthur Laffer said yes, around 33 and a half,

00:55:31.400 34 and a half percent. And, you know, you've seen a lot of different studies, but is there a

00:55:36.820 way to quantify what socialism is since we know how to quantify communism?

00:55:42.820 That's a great question. I love that. And in my comparative politics course at Grove City College

00:55:48.200 every fall, we use the Heritage Foundation's Index of Economic Freedom. They rank countries from number

00:55:54.560 one to about number 170, most economically free to least economically free. And the top two have been

00:56:02.340 Hong Kong and Singapore pretty much ever since they started doing this study in the 1990s. And then you

00:56:08.640 have New Zealand, maybe Ireland, maybe the UK, maybe the United States were around the top 10.

00:56:16.260 And then China, I think, is usually around like 100, 120. Spain, Italy, France, you know, who knows,

00:56:25.300 30s, 70s, they're all over the place. But at the very end, the very end is always North Korea and Cuba.

00:56:32.460 Cuba. Yeah. So in a way, that guide I find very, very useful as kind of a ranking system. And a country

00:56:42.960 there that would be around 150. Venezuela is down at the bottom now, too. Zimbabwe is down at the

00:56:48.960 bottom. So I'd say when you're in that range of like the bottom 10 percent, bottom 20 percent,

00:56:54.940 150 to 170, you're kind of in, you know, collectivism, socialism, communism, you know,

00:57:01.200 that you're in that territory. Got it. But there's never been a number that they've put to it,

00:57:07.000 meaning if you pay more than 60 percent taxes, it's socialism. If you pay more than 30 percent

00:57:12.020 taxes, it's socialism. That's what I'm looking for. Yeah, it's a good question. Yeah. And to do

00:57:18.220 it through tax rates, to truly have abolition of private property. By the way, the top three in

00:57:24.640 Marx and Engels 10-point plan, abolition of property and land, graduated or progressive income tax. Oh,

00:57:31.720 and my favorite, abolition of all right of inheritance. All right. So abolition of all right

00:57:38.320 of inheritance would technically mean, right, for you and I who are practical guys or trying to figure

00:57:43.700 out what these guys are saying, that would have to be like 100 percent inheritance tax, right? Death

00:57:50.700 tax. So if you have a 100 percent tax on inheritance, it's the only way you're going to abolish all right

00:57:55.920 of inheritance. That would be communism. If you have a 50 percent tax rate on inheritance,

00:58:02.580 I'd like to call that socialist. I think it's pretty damned outrageous. 70 percent would be

00:58:10.040 outrageous. Tax rates. In the United States, we introduced the federal income tax in 1913,

00:58:16.460 permanent federal income tax. It was a few percentage points. By 1921, under Woodrow Wilson,

00:58:22.180 it was 73 percent. FDR took it up to 94 percent on income over $100,000. And FDR, if you read Burt

00:58:31.820 Folsom's book, FDR goes to war, FDR in the 1940s wanted a 99.5 percent tax rate on incomes over $100,000.

00:58:42.540 Now, I would call that pretty close to communism. He might not be quoting Marx when he's doing it,

00:58:48.360 but I'd have to say that that would be pretty close. A 99.5 percent tax rate on income over $100,000.

00:58:55.700 That's like almost complete confiscation and redistribution of wealth at that point. But to pick

00:59:01.220 a hard number, Marx and Engels never gave one. And this is infuriating for practical-minded business

00:59:07.060 people. They also, they would say, well, you know, at this point, you've left capitalism and then

00:59:12.680 socialism and then capital. I want to know at which point in the process we're there, right? I want to

00:59:18.880 know who's the vanguard, who's the group of leaders that say, oh, okay, all right, okay. We are now

00:59:24.300 comrades from point B to point C, right? I can now say that we've officially entered

00:59:31.580 communist society. None of this is ever clear and it has to be decided by dictators. That's what it

00:59:38.700 comes down to. Very interesting. By the way, on the 99.5, I mean, I would love to know what's the

00:59:45.960 right book to read, where it's going to be unbiased and it's going to tell me what was

00:59:49.300 his motive and taking it to 99.5? Like what is it? It's Burt Folsom, FDR Goes to War. He wrote it

00:59:57.580 with his wife, Anita. He's a Hillsdale professor, retired Hillsdale. What's the book about?

01:00:03.080 It's called FDR Goes to War. I got it. So it's about the 1940s and yeah, 99.5% rate. By the way,

01:00:12.060 people thinking, well, he must've just wanted it for wartime. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. FDR,

01:00:17.740 FDR had jacked the rate up to 91. The reason Ronald Reagan left the Democratic Party was over FDR's tax

01:00:25.520 rates. And that's what drove him out of the Democratic Party. That's probably more than

01:00:31.100 anything else. That's right. Because in Hollywood, they were getting crushed with the taxes,

01:00:35.860 but it was at the top. So it's okay. So now let's talk about Reagan. Who was Reagan and how did Reagan

01:00:42.880 come to his political conclusions of eventually obviously becoming a president of the United

01:00:47.920 States? Well, so he was, he had been raised an FDR Democrat. He called himself a hemophiliac liberal,

01:00:56.440 a bleeding heart liberal. He was a new dealer from the Midwest. And I mean, that's my family too. My

01:01:02.000 family's from Western Pennsylvania, coal mines, steel mills, Pittsburgh. And, you know, in those days,

01:01:08.260 they, you know, it was kind of the party of God, guns and labor in those days, right? It's interesting

01:01:14.340 that it's what Donald Trump really tapped into here in Western Pennsylvania, fracking industry,

01:01:20.080 West Virginia, coal mining. But so Ronald Reagan came out of that group. His mother was very religious,

01:01:27.760 very, very religious. And when Reagan went out to Hollywood in the 1930s, started making movies,

01:01:33.620 a lot of movies, 1930s and 1940s. Among other things, he became weary of, of kind of this hyper

01:01:41.620 New Deal collectivism, redistributionism, high tax rate, tax rates, what Reagan called creeping

01:01:48.740 socialism, where you start this new program, that new program, this new program pretty soon. How do we

01:01:54.640 pay for all of this? Well, how do you pay for it? Well, you increase taxes, right? On who? On the rich.

01:02:02.540 All right. Well, how do you get any higher than 91%? Well, we go to 94, right? How about 99.5? Right?

01:02:11.040 Yeah, Margaret Thatcher said the problem with socialism is you eventually run out of other

01:02:14.340 people's money at some point. So that got to Reagan. And what really got to Reagan was he saw

01:02:21.240 the communist infiltration of Hollywood. Reagan saw that with the Screen Actors Guild, he was president

01:02:27.800 of the Screen Actors Guild. And he also saw Reagan became a popular after dinner speaker in Hollywood

01:02:34.100 in the 1940s, where he would go around giving this speech, exoriating Nazism, fascism. And one day after

01:02:43.940 he gave this speech to a men's group at his church, the pastor, the Reverend Cleveland Klyauer came up to

01:02:49.700 Reagan and said, Hey, Ron, that's a great speech. You know, Nazism, fascism, evil, evil, evil, evil, evil,

01:02:56.860 evil. You know, Hitler's dead. There's no movement in the United States at all for Nazism. The war was

01:03:03.400 over three years ago. You know, Ron, out there right now, there's another threat out there. It's

01:03:07.760 called communism. And it's, it's pretty brutal, too. And I think your speech would be a lot more

01:03:13.500 powerful if maybe you just added in a little criticism about communism. And Reagan, Patrick

01:03:18.980 said, Well, that's a pretty good idea. I think I'll start doing that. So Reagan gives his typical

01:03:23.720 stump speech. And he's giving it to one of these progressive groups in Washington, right? And

01:03:29.500 sitting there, you know, the John Howard Lawson, Dalton Trumbo, Hollywood, 10 types, way to go,

01:03:35.080 Ron, way to go, you know, get those Nazis, get those fascists. And then Reagan gets the end of the

01:03:40.580 speech. He writes about this in his memoirs. And he said, at the end of the speech, he said,

01:03:45.480 said, You know, there's another ism out there. And it's called communism, another totalitarianism.

01:03:50.960 And I'll tell you, if that ever becomes a threat to the United States, like Nazism was,

01:03:55.760 I will condemn that just as harshly. And Patrick Reagan said, You could hear a pin drop,

01:04:01.520 a pin drop, right? And he said, he got called names,

01:04:08.400 witch hunter, red baiter, fascist scum, all of a sudden, he's like persona non grata. He's like,

01:04:15.200 what am I doing? And he realized Reagan said, the reds weren't under the bed, you know, they were

01:04:20.800 they were in the bed. And a lot of these progressive groups that he thought were good

01:04:25.220 hearted liberals like him, were actually pro communists. So this awakened Reagan to the

01:04:31.600 communist threat in Hollywood, and the United States, and all of that, that FDR, everything else

01:04:37.560 began pushing him out of the Democratic Party, and toward eventually the Republican Party and

01:04:43.260 conservatism. He I'm currently finishing up Jim Baker's book. I don't know if you've read it or

01:04:50.940 not. The story, the man who ran Washington. I don't know if you've read it. I haven't read it yet. I

01:04:55.340 should. Yeah, he's, he's got a he gives a different angle on Reagan. And also, I'm not sure if you've

01:05:01.180 read killing Reagan. I'm sure you read killing Reagan by Bill O'Reilly. You know, he kind of takes

01:05:05.820 it. He pissed off George Will. And George Will was one of the guys that inspired me. March of 2009,

01:05:12.440 when I heard him speak at Miramar Hotel, when I was invited to an event by Larry Greenfield,

01:05:16.920 from the Claremont Institute with Larry Arn, and I heard him speak and Pat Boone was there and all

01:05:24.240 these other guys. But today, where we are today, you're a historian, you've read a lot. Obviously,

01:05:31.260 you're biased on one side, strong conservative, you even said it yourself earlier, we said, listen,

01:05:36.540 even me as a person who's biased, when you look at the part saying, where he is not letting his friend

01:05:41.020 go down. I mean, that's just that what do you mean romantic? Or what do you mean by you know,

01:05:44.160 the words that the guy used, right? Even I'm biased, that doesn't sound romantic to me.

01:05:48.760 I don't know if that's the word use, you may use a different word. But you know, I get what you were

01:05:52.600 saying. What is your biggest concern today? We're in America today, you know, we just got done with a

01:05:58.700 four term, you know, four years of Donald Trump, which, you know, if you're watching CNN,

01:06:05.420 MSNBC, he's the worst president of all time, if you're watching Fox, he's the goat. If you're

01:06:11.360 reading Wall Street Journal, he's great for the economy, but he's rattling too many cages. You

01:06:16.420 know, if you were depending on what you read, you have a different interpretation of who Donald Trump

01:06:21.280 is. And we go through Coronavirus, momentum creates, voting changes the way we're going to vote.

01:06:28.780 Biden wins, we wait six weeks to find out Georgia wins both seats. And then Biden inauguration,

01:06:36.340 Trump doesn't show up first time ever. And now we have America today. What is your biggest concern

01:06:42.020 of where we are today? Well, I'd say, indeed, this rise in support for socialism, people's lack of

01:06:48.960 understanding of it. And, and to the entire cancel culture, and just how nasty, and vicious people

01:06:57.200 are to one another. In fact, Ronald Reagan came from an era where people could disagree. And, and, and,

01:07:04.120 you know, the people in the 1980s, on the left side, who disagree with Ronald Reagan, you know, at least

01:07:11.600 they liked him as a person. They didn't feel that that you that you had to ruin someone's life. This idea

01:07:18.360 today, I mean, somebody will watch this today, and not like what I say, and, and want to write a letter

01:07:24.520 to the president of my college demanding I be fired. You know, it's, it, it, people so personalize

01:07:31.840 everything. There's a real lack of charity, of kindness, of decency, of people really getting along

01:07:39.360 like ladies and gentlemen, and having, you know, genuine disagreement. And also, two people just aren't

01:07:45.260 thoughtful, they're not well read, they're not taking the time to research things. I had a group

01:07:51.020 of faculty at a college where I was supposed to supposed to speak in California, last semester,

01:07:56.140 asked that the invitation to be to me be withdrawn. And for their evidence against what I had done,

01:08:04.620 they, they, they quoted some obscure online publication I hadn't even heard of. And from which

01:08:11.900 they took like a two line summary of a book that I wrote, it was all that they had, Patrick. And I

01:08:17.820 thought, these are fellow academics. I mean, read the book. I mean, how lazy is that? I mean, about

01:08:28.780 not just nasty, but lazy. But this is the kind of culture that that we're in. And it makes me not very

01:08:36.460 optimistic. I mean, is the Reagan a story and Reagan talked about the shining city on a hill. I mean, I feel

01:08:43.420 that we're not that shining city anymore. And it's going to be to turn this around. I don't, I don't know what

01:08:50.860 it's going to take. But 30 years, 30 plus years after the collapse of communism, we should not be having

01:08:57.260 the debate as to whether or not communism was bad. And the fact that we are shows that we're really in trouble

01:09:03.340 as a country. You think you get to a point where people are going to leave America and go to different

01:09:06.940 places to live, just like everybody else came from other countries to want to live in America. You

01:09:10.300 think America is eventually going to get to a point of losing citizens? Possibly. I mean, Ronald Reagan

01:09:14.780 said, if we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth. And he

01:09:20.220 was talking at that point about talking to a Cuban refugee. That was Reagan's 1964 time for choosing

01:09:26.540 speech. So I still wonder, well, it's true. If we lose freedom here, where else are we going to go to?

01:09:32.540 But I could see some people, especially professional people, feeling so harassed by the woke mobs and

01:09:40.220 everybody else in America, where they say, you know, I've had enough of this, I'll go live in Europe

01:09:44.780 or something. But in a way, you can't escape social media, right? You can't escape the power of the

01:09:52.360 internet and Twitter and everything else. So it takes a special kind of person, I think, and toughness

01:09:57.840 to withstand this, ignore it, and simply say, maybe like what Reagan said, right? Well, there they go

01:10:04.220 again, right? And just, and kind of shrug it off and say, well, this is what they do. This is how

01:10:10.160 they attack. And they're calling me a racist now. Well, they've done it to everybody. They did it to

01:10:14.840 Reagan. By the way, they're really doing that to Reagan now, right? So it's just, it's kind of what

01:10:21.040 they do. They're vicious about it. And I guess all we can do is maybe try to teach people to be more

01:10:26.860 respectful of one another. But good luck.

01:10:29.960 How do you deal with that with teaching the youth? I mean, you're seeing what's going on with

01:10:33.200 China giving $400 billion to Iran, 25 year contract, okay, that they're going to get oil in return,

01:10:39.840 but at the same time, influence and education, influence and infrastructure, influence and,

01:10:45.300 you know, et cetera, et cetera. And then you're hearing about New York giving $15,600 to undocumented

01:10:54.260 immigrants who lost their work during the pandemic. And, you know, they're going to spend the state

01:10:59.500 budget of $2.1 billion to help them out. And they're raising taxes. Well, for the top line revenue,

01:11:05.580 officially, New York becomes the most expensive state to live in. It's no longer California.

01:11:11.140 California becomes the second worst, used to be the worst on taxes. How are some of these people

01:11:16.320 making these kinds of policies and making progress on them and people are buying into them? And the

01:11:21.380 job creators are sitting on the sidelines saying, well, you know what, I'm going to take it a little

01:11:24.700 bit more. Are you sensing the exodus actually taking place from some states? And some of these states are

01:11:30.480 really going to pay a big price, just like maybe they did in 1970, when half of the fortune 500

01:11:35.220 companies out of New York left and completely left to a different state. Do you see some states getting

01:11:40.040 crushed? Yeah, I do. And this is a whole other fiscal conversation about the bankrupting of

01:11:46.260 America. I mean, there's only so much longer that this kind of spending and this kind of debt can go

01:11:50.760 on. We've been saying that for a long time, but it's got to reach a tipping point at some point.

01:11:55.640 But also, though, too, to have those people then leave New York and California and go to states like

01:12:01.460 Texas and Colorado and Georgia, and then they come down and they bring their crazy voting

01:12:07.420 preferences with them, and then turn Southern states and Republican states into Northeastern

01:12:15.440 states. And in a place like Georgia, where corporations like Coca-Cola and even Major League

01:12:21.960 Baseball, an organization like that, starts politicizing everything. I mean, they have no

01:12:27.720 idea if the laws in Georgia are more restrictive than my home state of Pennsylvania. They're probably

01:12:32.640 not, right? Coke doesn't know that. Major League Baseball doesn't know that. But you get, again,

01:12:39.880 this kind of mob media platform, media mentality, this culture of intimidation, of cancel, and it

01:12:47.240 starts going after people and people get scared and they buckle. And I find that, to go back to what I

01:12:54.020 said, I find that one of the more disturbing things about America today in the 21st century.

01:12:59.460 I'm going to, we're at the last part of the interview. Paul, I'm going to give you names. It's

01:13:03.180 called Speed Run. Tell me one word that comes to mind. Okay. AOC. Democratic Socialist. I use two

01:13:09.740 words. Okay. Sanders. Socialist. Pelosi. Oh, boy. That's not easy. I'm trying not to be insulting. I was

01:13:23.040 going to pick a word that's insulting there. I, yeah. Yeah. I better, I shouldn't say what, I just

01:13:31.700 talked about charity, right? What, what, what I would say would not be positive about her, in my view,

01:13:39.940 mental acuity on, on, on, on certain policy issues. How about Biden?

01:13:44.780 I think he's the Trojan horse. Kamala. Yeah. Kamala. Yeah. President Harris. Obama.

01:13:56.640 Obama. Increasingly difficult to pin down. I'm starting to wonder, Patrick, if, if, if Obama,

01:14:04.780 almost like a Bill Maher type, is kind of moving a little bit more to the center as he gets disgusted,

01:14:10.620 watching the cancel culture and some of this other stuff go around him. But that's not a one word

01:14:15.280 answer, is it? Yeah. But, but it's very interesting. You're saying that because you wrote about his

01:14:21.140 mentor. Yeah. Frank Marshall Davis. Yeah. So it's, it's interesting. So, and his presidency, I think,

01:14:27.020 was a really bad turning point that, that I could show you by data that when they asked, they asked

01:14:34.600 young Americans every year, do you support socialism or capitalism? All right. It finally flipped to

01:14:40.120 socialism in 2010, right? A lot of this cultural revolutionary stuff happened under Obama.

01:14:47.800 Obama was really a break. The Obama presidency was a breakthrough period for the left that I don't

01:14:53.680 think we'll, we'll ever turn back from, even if Obama has some regrets, if he ever does about some

01:14:59.600 of what happened. Got it. So Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz. Great. Yeah. I think he's terrific. He's one of my

01:15:07.040 favorite senators. My favorite senators are Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul. JFK. Anti-communist

01:15:15.800 Democrat. Bill Maher. His party's no longer with us. I agree. Bill Maher. I, I, I appreciate his

01:15:24.180 independence. I can't watch his show because of the vulgarity and the other stuff, but I appreciate

01:15:29.840 somebody who's honest and, and, and is willing to, he's like Piers Morgan, right? Willing to say what,

01:15:37.560 what, um, willing to go against the politically correct on his side. Anderson Cooper. I actually

01:15:44.440 think he's pretty fair. I, I, um, yeah. Yeah. Tucker. Brilliant. And, and needs to continue to be

01:15:52.420 courageous. Be not afraid. John Stewart. Uh, yeah. He's a little bit like a Bill Maher and John

01:15:59.440 Stewart. I like, he's a nice guy. He doesn't have a mean edge to him. Trump. That would take another

01:16:05.180 entire show to adequately assess him, but turn policy wise turned out to be a much more conservative

01:16:16.520 president. And, and, and many of the policies that I thought he would never embrace in 2016. He did by

01:16:23.500 2020. Pence. Um, really nice guy. I don't think he'll ever be president though. DeSantis. Um, I think

01:16:33.220 he could be president and he's a really good governor. Well, I got to tell you, I've really

01:16:37.480 enjoyed this. Thank you so much for being a guest on Valuetainment. And we're going to put the links

01:16:41.320 to two of your books, which we talked about today, the devil in car marks. We're going to put the link

01:16:46.020 below as well as the crusader, Ronald Reagan and the fall of communism. And, uh, we'll put the links

01:16:50.940 for folks to be able to find you as well, whether it's your website or your social media platform.

01:16:56.100 Final thoughts here before we wrap up, is there any last words you got for the audience?

01:17:01.120 Well, I don't use social media, my Twitter account. I've never actually touched. So I got to warn you on

01:17:05.540 that, but yeah, my, my final, uh, my final advice would be educate, educate, educate. You might have to

01:17:12.380 self-educate yourself and all this stuff, especially if you go to our lousy universities

01:17:16.420 and have courage, have charity, be not afraid and try to be a cheerful warrior in this culture that

01:17:24.300 needs a cheerful warriors. Ronald Reagan was a cheerful warrior. I like that cheerful.

01:17:30.100 So are you Patrick? I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time. Thank you for

01:17:34.280 being a guest on Valuetainment. Thank you very much. God bless. Take care. God bless you as well.

01:17:37.980 You have no idea how much I enjoy watching interviews or doing interviews on topics of

01:17:41.740 economy. Like it's so fascinating to me. And some of you either love this stuff or some of you didn't

01:17:46.300 even make it all the way to the end. But if you did, I want to know what you took away from today's

01:17:50.320 interview. And if you enjoyed today's interview, there's two other interviews I want to recommend

01:17:53.320 watch either one of them that you want to watch. One of them was with Ray Dalio at the time when I

01:17:56.740 interviewed him, I think he was worth 18 billion. And we had a very, very deep conversation about

01:18:01.620 economy methods of thinking. China was a big part of it. You may enjoy this one. And if you've not

01:18:06.780 watched my sit down with Larry Arnn, Larry Arnn has a lot of similar philosophies to my guest

01:18:13.180 today. Paul, I think you would really enjoy the conversation with Larry Arnn as well. Having said

01:18:18.960 that, click on either one of them that you want to watch. And aside from that, have a wonderful day.

01:18:23.500 Take care, everybody. Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - May 05, 2021

Why Is Karl Marx So Popular In Universities？

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