Verdict with Ted Cruz - May 05, 2022


A Big Damn Deal


Episode Stats


Length

37 minutes

Words per minute

160.0231

Word count

6,003

Sentence count

387

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Toxicity

9

sentences flagged

Hate speech

1

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Ted Cruz explains why Roe v. Roe was wrong from the start, and why the Supreme Court should have overruled it. He speaks to someone who knows a whole lot about Roe and Casey, and who knows even more about what happens now.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.420 Guaranteed human.
00:00:04.900 Roe was egregiously wrong from the start.
00:00:08.700 Its reasoning was exceptionally weak,
00:00:10.800 and the decision has had damaging consequences.
00:00:13.920 And far from bringing about a national settlement
00:00:16.140 of the abortion issue,
00:00:17.840 Roe and Casey have inflamed debate and deepened division.
00:00:22.080 We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled.
00:00:25.900 I am not simply speaking for myself and Senator Ted Cruz.
00:00:30.160 I'm reading the words of Justice Samuel Alito,
00:00:33.620 who is apparently writing the majority opinion of the court
00:00:38.120 in a leaked document,
00:00:40.180 a document that was leaked
00:00:41.520 in what the Chief Justice John Roberts calls
00:00:43.720 a singular and egregious breach of trust
00:00:47.820 on the Supreme Court.
00:00:49.980 We're gonna be talking to someone
00:00:51.020 who knows a whole lot about the court,
00:00:52.560 a whole lot about the issue,
00:00:53.760 and a whole lot about what happens now.
00:00:55.140 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.
00:01:00.000 Mother's Day is right around the corner,
00:01:04.680 and our dear friends at Genyacel
00:01:06.320 have a special offer
00:01:07.480 for all of those special ladies in our lives.
00:01:09.860 Right now, for a limited time,
00:01:11.680 you can get 50% off
00:01:13.240 if you go to genyacel.com slash cactus.
00:01:16.700 This includes many products,
00:01:18.340 but especially their ultra-retinol cream.
00:01:20.820 And for a limited time,
00:01:21.460 let me show you this product.
00:01:22.260 All qualifying orders will come with this,
00:01:23.980 the new and improved immediate effects, too,
00:01:26.760 which is phenomenal
00:01:27.480 because it works in as little as 12 hours.
00:01:30.220 Now, the ultra-retinol cream is remarkable
00:01:32.740 because it is powered
00:01:34.100 by Genyacel's proprietary technology,
00:01:36.940 which combines the anti-aging effects
00:01:38.480 of the meadow foam flower
00:01:39.760 with the moisturizing effects
00:01:41.600 of hyaluronic acid.
00:01:43.500 So Genyacel promises
00:01:44.760 that you will look five years,
00:01:46.780 10 years, even 15 years younger,
00:01:48.860 guaranteed, or your money back.
00:01:50.320 Imagine how happy that is going to make
00:01:52.100 the special mother in your life.
00:01:54.740 Make this Mother's Day one
00:01:55.680 that she will always remember.
00:01:57.220 Go to genyacel.com slash cactus
00:02:00.040 to get 50% off.
00:02:02.060 Genyacel.com slash cactus
00:02:03.980 for a special gift for your mom
00:02:06.860 that she will always remember.
00:02:08.620 Genyacel.com slash cactus.
00:02:10.600 Happy Mother's Day.
00:02:13.020 Today's episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz
00:02:15.540 is brought to you by IPVanish.
00:02:17.940 Did you know that browsing online
00:02:19.560 using incognito mode
00:02:20.880 doesn't actually protect your privacy?
00:02:22.800 Without added security,
00:02:24.100 you might as well give
00:02:24.820 all your private data away
00:02:25.960 to hackers, advertisers,
00:02:27.480 your internet service provider,
00:02:28.800 and who knows who else.
00:02:30.060 IPVanish helps you securely
00:02:31.320 and privately browse the internet
00:02:32.740 by encrypting 100% of your data.
00:02:35.260 This means that your private messages,
00:02:37.000 passwords, emails, browsing history,
00:02:38.780 and other information
00:02:39.660 will be completely protected
00:02:40.900 from falling into the wrong hands.
00:02:42.760 IPVanish makes you
00:02:43.660 virtually invisible online.
00:02:45.260 It's that simple.
00:02:46.200 Just for Verdict listeners,
00:02:47.420 IPVanish is offering
00:02:48.540 an insane 70% off their annual plan.
00:02:50.980 That's like getting
00:02:51.480 nine months for free.
00:02:52.500 You have to go directly
00:02:53.700 to IPVanish.com slash cactus
00:02:55.780 to get this 70% off discount.
00:02:57.960 IPVanish is super easy to use.
00:02:59.800 Just tap one button
00:03:00.700 and you're instantly protected.
00:03:02.120 You won't even know it's on.
00:03:03.220 You can use IPVanish
00:03:04.280 on your computers,
00:03:05.280 tablets, and phones.
00:03:06.360 Whether you're at home
00:03:07.020 or in public,
00:03:07.820 don't go online
00:03:08.620 without using IPVanish.
00:03:10.440 Don't forget,
00:03:11.320 Verdict listeners
00:03:11.960 get 70% off
00:03:13.160 the IPVanish annual plan.
00:03:15.000 Just go to IPVanish.com slash cactus
00:03:17.280 to claim your discount
00:03:18.400 and secure your online life.
00:03:20.220 That's IPVanish.com slash cactus.
00:03:24.420 This episode of Verdict
00:03:25.860 with Ted Cruz
00:03:26.520 is brought to you
00:03:27.240 by American Hartford Gold.
00:03:28.840 Now, the new inflation numbers
00:03:30.080 are out
00:03:30.440 and I think we can all agree
00:03:31.560 they are incredibly depressing.
00:03:32.920 The price of gas is way up.
00:03:34.820 The price of housing is up.
00:03:36.280 The U.S. national debt
00:03:37.320 is way, way, way up.
00:03:39.440 And unfortunately,
00:03:40.280 given the way
00:03:40.900 that our current administration
00:03:42.060 prints money
00:03:42.680 and spends money,
00:03:43.440 experts don't see this going away,
00:03:45.340 this inflation going away
00:03:46.380 anytime soon.
00:03:47.180 So, how do you protect your money,
00:03:50.620 your savings,
00:03:51.440 your retirement
00:03:52.080 from inflation?
00:03:53.460 Well, when times are turbulent,
00:03:54.900 Americans like you
00:03:55.500 turn to physical gold and silver
00:03:57.880 and American Hartford Gold
00:03:58.960 can show you
00:03:59.820 how to hedge
00:04:00.660 your hard-earned savings
00:04:01.740 against inflation
00:04:02.740 by diversifying
00:04:04.120 a portion of your portfolio
00:04:05.160 into physical gold and silver.
00:04:07.060 It's really easy
00:04:07.780 to get started.
00:04:08.840 All it takes
00:04:09.240 is a short phone call
00:04:10.120 and they will have
00:04:10.620 physical gold and silver
00:04:11.560 delivered right to your door
00:04:12.980 or if you prefer
00:04:13.840 inside your 401k
00:04:15.620 or your IRA.
00:04:16.720 They make it easy.
00:04:17.500 If you call them right now,
00:04:18.480 then they will give you
00:04:19.100 up to $1,500 of free silver
00:04:20.980 on your first order.
00:04:22.560 So, don't wait.
00:04:23.200 Call them right now.
00:04:24.280 Call 855-768-1883
00:04:27.600 or if you prefer texting,
00:04:28.960 you can text the word
00:04:29.620 CACTUS
00:04:30.140 to 65532.
00:04:32.220 Again,
00:04:32.520 the phone number is
00:04:33.040 855-768-1883
00:04:35.720 or text the word
00:04:37.040 CACTUS
00:04:37.480 to 65532.
00:04:39.060 Welcome back
00:04:39.580 to Verdict with Ted Cruz.
00:04:41.100 I'm Michael Knowles.
00:04:42.420 Senator,
00:04:42.860 I have seven bazillion
00:04:45.780 questions to ask you
00:04:47.300 about this.
00:04:47.680 You've just come
00:04:48.400 from the Capitol.
00:04:49.400 We have not even
00:04:50.460 had a prep call yet.
00:04:51.620 We have not talked
00:04:52.400 about anything.
00:04:54.140 Tell me everything
00:04:54.800 that I need to know
00:04:55.740 about this leaked document
00:04:58.000 from the Supreme Court.
00:04:59.080 Well, let's start
00:04:59.640 on the substance.
00:05:00.340 The substance is 0.94
00:05:01.040 this is a big damn deal. 0.83
00:05:02.540 Assuming that 0.73
00:05:03.560 the reporting
00:05:04.540 that accompanied
00:05:05.200 this leak
00:05:06.360 is accurate,
00:05:07.540 it turns out
00:05:08.380 what you and I discussed
00:05:09.540 on this podcast
00:05:10.800 days after the oral argument
00:05:13.220 appears to be
00:05:14.200 exactly right.
00:05:15.480 On this podcast,
00:05:17.020 you and I talked
00:05:17.680 about what the justices
00:05:18.920 were likely to do.
00:05:20.020 I had listened
00:05:20.540 to the argument
00:05:21.980 very carefully
00:05:22.700 and what I told you
00:05:23.820 at the time
00:05:24.400 is that I believe
00:05:25.920 there were six votes
00:05:27.200 to uphold
00:05:28.200 the Mississippi law,
00:05:29.440 the Mississippi law
00:05:30.320 restricting abortion
00:05:31.260 after 15 weeks.
00:05:33.320 And I also thought
00:05:34.960 there were five votes
00:05:36.180 to overrule
00:05:37.080 Roe versus Wade
00:05:38.040 in its entirety.
00:05:39.060 So there's a distinction
00:05:40.380 to be had there
00:05:41.020 because the case
00:05:41.780 at issue
00:05:42.400 or the law at issue
00:05:44.200 is this pro-life law
00:05:45.240 in Mississippi.
00:05:46.060 So you could have
00:05:46.740 a world in which
00:05:47.680 you have different judges
00:05:49.460 voting to uphold
00:05:50.540 or strike down that law
00:05:51.620 than you would have
00:05:52.780 to go all the way back
00:05:54.660 and overrule Roe v. Wade
00:05:56.040 and Planned Parenthood v. Casey
00:05:57.100 which invented
00:05:57.780 the constitutional right
00:05:59.060 to an abortion. 0.94
00:06:00.600 That's exactly right.
00:06:02.180 And what my assessment
00:06:04.700 was from listening
00:06:05.740 to the oral argument
00:06:06.540 is that John Roberts,
00:06:07.940 the chief justice,
00:06:09.500 seemed prepared
00:06:10.500 to uphold
00:06:11.100 the Mississippi law
00:06:11.980 but he wanted
00:06:13.200 to find a way
00:06:13.980 to do it
00:06:14.720 without overruling
00:06:16.080 Roe v. Wade.
00:06:17.420 And remember
00:06:17.880 I went into this argument
00:06:19.160 deeply skeptical.
00:06:20.780 I was not convinced
00:06:21.680 there were five votes
00:06:22.540 on the court
00:06:22.980 to overturn Roe.
00:06:24.080 I knew there were two.
00:06:25.100 I knew Justice Alito
00:06:25.940 and Justice Thomas.
00:06:26.920 They'd both been
00:06:27.420 quite public about that.
00:06:28.960 But I had real skepticism
00:06:30.900 about Kavanaugh,
00:06:32.080 about Gorsuch,
00:06:32.840 and about Barrett.
00:06:33.840 Um, from listening
00:06:36.520 to the oral argument
00:06:37.580 all three seem
00:06:39.400 to be clearly
00:06:40.540 leaning in
00:06:41.520 in support
00:06:42.300 of overturning Roe.
00:06:43.400 And from this opinion
00:06:44.660 it appears
00:06:45.160 that's exactly
00:06:45.900 how they voted.
00:06:46.600 Well, I guess
00:06:47.460 we also have to
00:06:48.100 establish first
00:06:48.960 this leaked document
00:06:50.260 that went to Politico
00:06:51.560 on Monday night
00:06:52.880 and then was released
00:06:54.880 to the broader public.
00:06:56.040 The document
00:06:56.760 is legit,
00:06:58.040 correct?
00:06:58.200 This is an actual
00:06:59.480 draft opinion
00:07:00.220 from the Supreme Court.
00:07:01.620 So it is.
00:07:02.360 The court has confirmed
00:07:03.380 that,
00:07:03.700 that this is a real
00:07:04.560 draft opinion.
00:07:05.880 And I gotta say 0.91
00:07:07.500 that is a big damn deal. 0.61
00:07:11.260 Like when this came out, 0.95
00:07:12.660 this came out Monday night.
00:07:14.400 I was having dinner
00:07:15.100 with some friends.
00:07:17.340 You know me well.
00:07:18.440 I am rarely
00:07:19.760 at a loss for words.
00:07:21.860 That is true.
00:07:23.600 I was genuinely speechless.
00:07:26.880 And it's difficult
00:07:28.040 to convey to someone
00:07:29.700 who doesn't regularly
00:07:31.000 practice in front
00:07:32.440 of the court,
00:07:33.020 who doesn't interact
00:07:33.780 with the Supreme Court
00:07:34.720 often,
00:07:35.880 the magnitude
00:07:37.620 of the breach
00:07:38.640 this represents.
00:07:39.660 It is stunning
00:07:41.100 at a level
00:07:41.880 that is horrifying.
00:07:44.060 In over two centuries
00:07:45.660 of our country's history,
00:07:47.960 never,
00:07:48.680 not even once,
00:07:49.740 has a draft opinion
00:07:50.900 leaked from the
00:07:51.800 U.S. Supreme Court.
00:07:53.220 For this to happen,
00:07:55.940 the court has been
00:07:57.720 this goes right
00:07:59.720 to the heart
00:08:00.580 of the integrity
00:08:02.060 of the court
00:08:03.260 and it goes right
00:08:05.300 to judicial independence.
00:08:08.240 And
00:08:08.520 I promise you
00:08:11.520 this entire day
00:08:12.740 has been
00:08:14.580 like an earthquake
00:08:16.440 at the Supreme Court
00:08:17.580 because it undermines
00:08:19.100 the ability
00:08:19.720 of the court
00:08:20.420 to do its job.
00:08:22.100 And what it means
00:08:22.980 happened,
00:08:23.780 I think
00:08:24.580 in all likelihood,
00:08:26.280 what it means
00:08:27.180 is that there
00:08:27.980 was a left-wing
00:08:29.320 law clerk
00:08:30.100 who was upset
00:08:32.460 at how the justices
00:08:33.500 voted
00:08:33.860 and decided
00:08:35.240 to leak
00:08:36.020 this opinion.
00:08:37.780 And just as a matter
00:08:39.120 of procedure,
00:08:40.020 you've got all
00:08:40.660 these law clerks
00:08:41.640 and what are they?
00:08:43.400 Are they on an email
00:08:44.040 thread or something?
00:08:45.320 You know,
00:08:45.620 this draft
00:08:46.340 goes back to February.
00:08:47.820 So obviously
00:08:48.600 the justices
00:08:49.980 and the clerks
00:08:50.740 have been working
00:08:51.220 on this
00:08:51.660 for a long time
00:08:52.880 and is it just
00:08:53.580 that any clerk
00:08:54.880 can see
00:08:55.620 any of these drafts?
00:08:57.040 Is there any,
00:08:57.640 is there going to be
00:08:58.060 any way to identify
00:08:59.080 who actually did this?
00:09:00.260 I guess is what
00:09:00.760 I'm asking.
00:09:01.600 So there may well be.
00:09:03.340 So the way it works
00:09:04.640 is when a case
00:09:05.700 is argued
00:09:06.300 shortly after the argument
00:09:08.400 either on Wednesday
00:09:09.220 or Friday,
00:09:10.260 the court meets
00:09:11.060 in conference.
00:09:11.860 Now conference
00:09:12.500 is a special room.
00:09:14.300 The conference room
00:09:15.100 is actually attached
00:09:15.980 to the chief
00:09:16.480 justices chambers.
00:09:17.960 So there's a conference
00:09:18.800 table.
00:09:19.480 In conference
00:09:20.240 it is only
00:09:20.760 the nine justices.
00:09:21.660 There's nobody else
00:09:22.540 in the room.
00:09:23.060 There's no law clerk.
00:09:23.840 There's no secretary.
00:09:24.720 It is the nine justices.
00:09:26.380 Actually the door
00:09:27.480 leading to the conference room,
00:09:29.020 there are two doors.
00:09:29.860 There's a door
00:09:30.480 and then there's
00:09:30.920 about three feet
00:09:31.600 of space
00:09:32.100 and then there's
00:09:32.520 a second door.
00:09:34.020 And the junior justice
00:09:35.940 is expected
00:09:37.640 to get coffee
00:09:38.480 for the others.
00:09:40.420 And if for some reason
00:09:42.340 someone needs
00:09:43.280 to pass a note
00:09:44.500 to the justices,
00:09:46.180 you open the outer door,
00:09:47.980 you put the note
00:09:48.600 on the floor,
00:09:49.500 you knock on the inner door,
00:09:50.720 you close the outer door
00:09:52.060 and then the junior justice
00:09:53.160 goes and opens
00:09:53.820 the inner door
00:09:54.380 and gets the note.
00:09:55.280 It's like an airlock.
00:09:59.480 At conference,
00:10:00.880 the justices cast
00:10:02.160 their initial votes.
00:10:03.540 In this instance,
00:10:04.600 assuming the reporting
00:10:05.620 is accurate,
00:10:06.780 six justices voted
00:10:08.060 to uphold
00:10:09.280 the Mississippi statute
00:10:11.300 and five justices
00:10:12.840 voted
00:10:13.240 to overturn
00:10:15.780 Roe versus Wade.
00:10:16.620 When that happens,
00:10:19.320 the senior justice
00:10:20.660 in the majority
00:10:21.860 assigns the majority.
00:10:25.060 Given the lineup here,
00:10:26.500 it appears likely
00:10:27.360 that that was
00:10:28.220 Justice Thomas
00:10:29.060 who was the senior justice
00:10:30.120 in the majority
00:10:30.820 and he chose
00:10:32.220 to assign it
00:10:32.920 to Justice Alito
00:10:33.720 who's the next
00:10:34.340 most senior justice
00:10:35.240 in the majority
00:10:35.880 and Justice Alito
00:10:36.860 is a masterful
00:10:38.100 opinion writer.
00:10:40.120 Do you have any sense,
00:10:41.120 Senator,
00:10:41.580 knowing some of the
00:10:42.640 people involved here
00:10:43.620 and having spent
00:10:44.160 a lot of time
00:10:44.640 around the court,
00:10:45.140 why would Thomas
00:10:46.360 not want to keep
00:10:47.140 this for himself?
00:10:48.280 This could be
00:10:48.800 the most important
00:10:49.460 decision in the last
00:10:51.440 hundred years.
00:10:52.000 I mean,
00:10:52.140 this could be
00:10:52.460 one of the most
00:10:52.840 important decisions
00:10:53.380 in American history.
00:10:54.900 Yeah, look,
00:10:55.380 I don't have a great
00:10:55.980 answer to that.
00:10:56.740 I'm actually
00:10:58.260 a little bit surprised
00:10:59.300 Justice Thomas
00:10:59.980 didn't assign it
00:11:00.760 to himself
00:11:01.220 because he had
00:11:01.900 that prerogative.
00:11:03.200 But he made
00:11:03.800 the judgment
00:11:04.340 that the chief justice
00:11:06.360 by definition
00:11:07.320 is the most senior
00:11:08.160 justice in the majority,
00:11:09.360 but in this instance
00:11:10.160 he wasn't voting
00:11:10.980 to overturn
00:11:11.500 Roe versus Wade,
00:11:12.740 so he would be
00:11:13.940 writing his own
00:11:14.760 independent opinion.
00:11:15.680 If he could get
00:11:16.440 five justices,
00:11:17.360 he could assign
00:11:17.840 the majority,
00:11:18.840 but he was not
00:11:22.160 willing to overturn
00:11:22.940 Roe according
00:11:23.600 to the reporting,
00:11:24.620 and so Thomas
00:11:26.100 made the assignment.
00:11:27.500 Now, the way it works,
00:11:28.520 once that's assigned,
00:11:30.140 the justice who's
00:11:31.780 assigned the majority
00:11:32.560 opinion goes back
00:11:33.640 to his or her chamber,
00:11:35.040 and each justice
00:11:36.780 has four law clerks.
00:11:38.680 There will be one law
00:11:40.100 clerk who is the lead
00:11:41.100 law clerk on the opinion,
00:11:42.300 and so if there are
00:11:43.300 four of you,
00:11:44.760 each of you have
00:11:45.680 a quarter of the cases
00:11:46.500 before the term.
00:11:48.760 The justice
00:11:49.640 and the law clerk
00:11:50.580 will work together
00:11:51.680 drafting the opinion,
00:11:53.440 and when you prepare
00:11:54.480 an initial draft,
00:11:55.520 you circulate it
00:11:56.240 to all nine justices.
00:11:58.180 That's what this is.
00:11:59.460 So that was the first draft.
00:12:01.660 Justice Alito
00:12:02.260 circulated it
00:12:03.080 to all nine justices.
00:12:04.120 When that happens,
00:12:05.340 at that point,
00:12:06.700 nobody has joined
00:12:07.760 the opinion,
00:12:08.320 so it's not
00:12:08.740 the opinion of the court.
00:12:09.620 It is your draft
00:12:11.460 that you're circulating
00:12:12.520 to the other justices
00:12:14.280 to get their opinions.
00:12:16.760 What happens next
00:12:18.700 is multiple iterations
00:12:21.120 of edits
00:12:21.880 where you'll have
00:12:23.300 individual justices
00:12:24.340 that'll say,
00:12:24.940 hey, I don't like
00:12:25.580 this paragraph.
00:12:26.400 Hey, can you change
00:12:27.060 this sentence?
00:12:28.080 Can you add this footnote?
00:12:29.280 Can you delete this footnote?
00:12:30.880 No, I don't like
00:12:31.540 the way this is structured.
00:12:33.440 And on a run-of-the-mill opinion,
00:12:36.040 you could get dozens
00:12:37.600 or even hundreds of edits.
00:12:39.980 On an opinion like this
00:12:41.440 of this magnitude,
00:12:43.060 you would expect hundreds
00:12:44.780 if not even thousands
00:12:46.160 of edits.
00:12:47.040 This is for the history books.
00:12:51.140 Every justice has to decide
00:12:52.920 whether he or she
00:12:53.680 will join the opinion.
00:12:54.800 In particular,
00:12:55.460 the five justices
00:12:56.240 in the majority here
00:12:57.180 have to make a decision
00:12:58.920 whether they will
00:12:59.620 join the opinion.
00:13:00.600 They may have
00:13:01.540 all sorts of changes to it.
00:13:03.500 And if they don't
00:13:04.400 join the opinion,
00:13:05.180 then they write
00:13:06.560 their own
00:13:07.600 concurring opinion
00:13:08.420 so they would be
00:13:09.980 still voting
00:13:10.860 to overrule Roe
00:13:12.020 but they might say,
00:13:13.620 I just don't agree
00:13:14.340 with the way Alito
00:13:14.960 is going about this.
00:13:16.480 Yeah, and they could do that
00:13:17.720 and you do get opinions.
00:13:19.220 You get sometimes cases
00:13:20.480 where you have
00:13:22.340 multiple opinions,
00:13:24.200 concurring opinions,
00:13:25.080 dissenting opinions,
00:13:25.960 concurring in part,
00:13:26.680 dissenting in part.
00:13:27.400 I mean, it can get complicated.
00:13:29.220 In order for the opinion
00:13:31.000 to be the majority opinion,
00:13:33.020 the opinion of the court,
00:13:35.040 five justices have to join it.
00:13:36.700 So it's consequential
00:13:37.980 to have a majority opinion
00:13:40.320 because the opinion
00:13:41.780 of the court is precedent
00:13:43.120 and in this instance,
00:13:45.260 I think the five justices
00:13:47.440 who presumably are voting
00:13:50.420 to overturn Roe
00:13:51.540 want there to be
00:13:52.600 an opinion of the court.
00:13:54.260 So there's a high,
00:13:56.600 unless there's something
00:13:57.780 you cannot live with,
00:14:00.520 an opinion with five justices
00:14:02.240 as qualitatively different
00:14:03.540 as a legal matter
00:14:04.280 than an opinion
00:14:04.800 with just four.
00:14:07.700 Also in response
00:14:08.840 to the opinion,
00:14:10.100 other justices
00:14:10.940 are working on
00:14:11.800 a concurring opinion.
00:14:14.540 So Roberts,
00:14:16.100 assuming he wants
00:14:16.800 to uphold the statute
00:14:17.840 but not over rule Roe,
00:14:19.460 would file a concurring opinion
00:14:21.340 where he concurs
00:14:22.940 in the judgment.
00:14:23.880 In other words,
00:14:24.780 he agrees with the judgment
00:14:26.580 that the law
00:14:27.380 being challenged
00:14:28.160 is valid.
00:14:29.000 Right.
00:14:30.160 But he concurs
00:14:31.520 for a different reason.
00:14:33.140 So he would not
00:14:34.240 overturn Roe
00:14:35.940 but for whatever reason
00:14:38.280 he would lay out,
00:14:39.020 he thinks that the law
00:14:40.600 is valid.
00:14:41.520 And then the dissenters,
00:14:43.900 presumably the three liberals
00:14:45.700 on the court,
00:14:47.200 would write one or two
00:14:48.600 or even three dissents.
00:14:49.860 My guess is all three
00:14:50.920 will write dissents.
00:14:51.740 In this case,
00:14:52.340 there will probably
00:14:52.940 be a lead dissent
00:14:54.260 and that's typically
00:14:56.220 assigned by the senior justice
00:14:58.020 in the minority.
00:15:00.900 But anyone can write a dissent.
00:15:02.720 And so someone
00:15:04.000 is given the nod
00:15:05.420 of you be the lead dissenter
00:15:06.680 but there can be
00:15:07.620 additional ones.
00:15:10.040 What happened here
00:15:11.520 is somebody handed over
00:15:14.460 to the press
00:15:15.100 the first iteration of this.
00:15:18.960 You know,
00:15:19.540 when you start as a clerk,
00:15:21.240 your first week as a clerk,
00:15:22.620 you sit down in orientation
00:15:23.820 and they stress secrecy.
00:15:25.640 They stress everything done
00:15:27.680 in the court is confidential.
00:15:29.120 You don't talk about anything
00:15:30.100 that happens at the court.
00:15:31.400 You don't bring draft opinions home.
00:15:33.860 You do your work
00:15:34.980 in the Supreme Court building.
00:15:37.520 So on any given night,
00:15:39.800 the court is full of law clerks
00:15:42.480 at midnight,
00:15:43.660 one in the morning,
00:15:44.620 working on draft opinions
00:15:45.840 and doing your work
00:15:46.800 because you don't bring
00:15:48.000 the opinions home.
00:15:49.520 And so there is a primacy
00:15:52.960 on confidentiality
00:15:55.680 and trust
00:15:56.360 that somebody
00:15:57.620 violated
00:15:59.440 in a way
00:16:00.520 that is truly
00:16:01.380 historic and stunning.
00:16:02.840 So what is going to happen
00:16:04.140 to this person?
00:16:04.960 I know that
00:16:05.400 the chief justice
00:16:06.360 sent out this statement today.
00:16:08.360 He said,
00:16:08.780 yes, we're confirming
00:16:09.620 this was a draft opinion.
00:16:11.460 This is egregious.
00:16:12.880 This is a singular
00:16:14.080 breach of trust here.
00:16:15.700 And I'm ordering
00:16:16.620 the marshal of the court
00:16:17.580 to launch an investigation
00:16:18.920 into the source of the leak.
00:16:20.240 One,
00:16:20.920 is he going to be able
00:16:21.800 to identify the source?
00:16:23.160 And two,
00:16:24.080 did this person
00:16:24.960 break a law?
00:16:26.300 I mean,
00:16:26.480 is this going to be
00:16:27.120 a little slap on the wrist
00:16:28.500 by John Roberts
00:16:29.500 or are we talking
00:16:30.560 about jail time?
00:16:31.820 So we're talking
00:16:32.400 about something
00:16:32.960 very, very serious.
00:16:33.960 Let's start with
00:16:34.460 the first thing.
00:16:35.140 I very much hope
00:16:36.360 they find out
00:16:37.460 who the leaker is.
00:16:38.520 I think it is
00:16:39.140 incredibly important
00:16:40.340 that they find this person.
00:16:42.460 The marshal of the court,
00:16:44.020 they have considerable resources.
00:16:46.100 There's a whole
00:16:46.780 police force
00:16:48.240 at the court.
00:16:49.040 There are about
00:16:49.320 500 officers
00:16:50.400 at the court.
00:16:51.480 So the Supreme Court
00:16:52.660 takes separation
00:16:53.520 of powers
00:16:54.080 very seriously.
00:16:54.880 So they don't want,
00:16:56.060 they don't allow
00:16:56.640 Capitol Police
00:16:57.660 into the Supreme Court.
00:16:59.440 So the U.S. Capitol
00:17:00.180 has a whole
00:17:00.640 Capitol Police force,
00:17:01.880 but the Supreme Court,
00:17:03.640 they're a third branch
00:17:04.640 of government.
00:17:05.260 They're not part
00:17:05.860 of the Congress.
00:17:06.640 And so Capitol Police,
00:17:08.780 in their view,
00:17:09.700 have no business
00:17:10.400 in their building.
00:17:11.600 You know,
00:17:14.320 they don't generally
00:17:15.680 handle law enforcement
00:17:17.320 investigations.
00:17:20.660 What the Supreme Court
00:17:21.940 police typically do
00:17:23.360 is stop protests
00:17:24.720 and threats
00:17:25.680 to the justices
00:17:26.520 of the court.
00:17:27.960 But that being said,
00:17:29.600 there are pretty
00:17:30.160 considerable security
00:17:31.540 measures at the court.
00:17:33.160 And it's also
00:17:34.400 a limited universe.
00:17:36.660 So I had several
00:17:38.020 reporters asked today,
00:17:39.200 what if it was a justice
00:17:40.180 that did this?
00:17:40.940 I got to tell you,
00:17:41.880 I just don't believe that.
00:17:43.520 It is such a grotesque
00:17:46.060 violation of trust.
00:17:48.800 To me,
00:17:49.580 it is beyond imagination
00:17:50.840 that a justice
00:17:51.760 would do this.
00:17:53.340 To use the nuclear code example,
00:17:57.780 it's like the president
00:17:58.880 handing the nuclear codes
00:17:59.940 to Putin.
00:18:00.480 It just,
00:18:00.820 I cannot believe
00:18:02.240 even the most left-wing
00:18:03.860 justice would do this.
00:18:05.560 I think it is very,
00:18:07.140 very likely a law clerk.
00:18:09.200 And it is very,
00:18:10.320 very likely
00:18:10.820 a law clerk
00:18:11.520 for one of the three
00:18:12.580 liberal justices.
00:18:13.680 That means there are
00:18:14.300 12 human beings
00:18:15.480 who are your likely
00:18:17.560 suspect pool.
00:18:18.840 That's not a big
00:18:19.860 likely suspect pool.
00:18:22.800 It is likely
00:18:23.820 to be someone
00:18:24.580 who is a hard partisan
00:18:26.180 and who was willing
00:18:28.800 to burn the place down
00:18:30.740 because he or she
00:18:32.500 was so upset
00:18:33.660 about what happens.
00:18:34.640 If I were to guess
00:18:37.000 the most likely justice
00:18:38.280 for whom the law clerk
00:18:39.660 is clerking
00:18:40.680 is Sonia Sotomayor.
00:18:42.460 Why do you say that?
00:18:44.300 Because she's the most
00:18:45.360 partisan of the justices
00:18:46.620 and so she's the most
00:18:48.680 likely to hire
00:18:49.920 wild-eyed partisans
00:18:52.040 as clerks.
00:18:53.420 I have no evidence of that.
00:18:54.920 I'm just making
00:18:55.860 an inference.
00:18:59.620 And with respect
00:19:00.820 to the chain of custody,
00:19:02.420 look,
00:19:02.660 the Supreme Court
00:19:03.540 has technology,
00:19:07.400 actually,
00:19:07.760 when you print out
00:19:08.960 opinions,
00:19:12.680 I don't want to get
00:19:14.420 into the details
00:19:15.400 of how,
00:19:17.060 but they are printed out
00:19:18.300 with identifying materials
00:19:20.020 that forensically
00:19:21.660 you can find out
00:19:22.720 where they were printed
00:19:23.800 out from.
00:19:26.300 Whether they are able
00:19:27.560 to track that down
00:19:28.800 or not in this instance
00:19:29.960 will depend on
00:19:30.720 whether they can get
00:19:31.380 a copy of the actual opinion.
00:19:34.040 Politico just put up a PDF,
00:19:36.560 but the Supreme Court
00:19:38.320 has taken pretty significant
00:19:39.780 steps towards security.
00:19:41.920 So as a law clerk,
00:19:42.680 for example,
00:19:43.960 when you're editing
00:19:45.880 an opinion,
00:19:46.560 you do it on the computer.
00:19:47.640 If you print an opinion out,
00:19:49.000 you can print it
00:19:49.580 and read it
00:19:50.100 in your office
00:19:51.160 and you can edit it,
00:19:52.340 but you never take it home.
00:19:54.520 And when you're done
00:19:55.520 with it,
00:19:55.840 you throw it in a burn bag.
00:19:57.160 And every law clerk
00:19:58.540 has a burn bag
00:19:59.400 typically under your desk
00:20:00.520 and the burn bag
00:20:01.300 is about this tall
00:20:02.780 and it's a kind of brown
00:20:04.160 and red striped bag.
00:20:05.540 And that bag
00:20:06.860 is sealed
00:20:08.820 and then it is shredded
00:20:11.540 twice,
00:20:12.540 horizontally
00:20:13.120 and vertically.
00:20:14.440 and then it is burned
00:20:17.900 and it is rendered
00:20:19.540 completely unreadable
00:20:21.060 before it leaves the building.
00:20:23.320 And that is,
00:20:24.380 that's the level of security
00:20:25.760 they take
00:20:26.500 in that building.
00:20:29.900 One question we don't know
00:20:31.400 was this individual,
00:20:33.360 how smart a crook were they?
00:20:35.740 We know the reporters
00:20:37.160 who published the story.
00:20:40.360 One of the natural inquiries
00:20:41.900 is going to be,
00:20:42.760 particularly of the 12 likely suspects,
00:20:44.460 what contacts did they have
00:20:46.200 with those reporters?
00:20:46.900 Do they know the reporters?
00:20:49.580 Do they go to school
00:20:50.260 with the reporters?
00:20:51.320 Do they have emails
00:20:52.140 with the reporters?
00:20:53.000 Do they have phone calls
00:20:53.820 with the reporters?
00:20:54.500 Do they have text
00:20:55.120 with the reporters?
00:20:56.140 I don't know the answer
00:20:57.100 to any of that.
00:20:57.800 I don't know whether
00:20:58.420 these are master criminals
00:20:59.540 or not.
00:21:00.920 But it strikes me
00:21:02.320 that it is very possible
00:21:03.820 there is an electronic trail
00:21:05.440 or a personal trail.
00:21:08.840 Now,
00:21:09.440 in terms of the consequences,
00:21:10.900 if they identify
00:21:11.840 the perpetrator,
00:21:12.560 I am confident
00:21:14.900 the perpetrator
00:21:15.660 would be fired on the spot,
00:21:17.040 that instantaneously
00:21:18.120 you would lose your job.
00:21:19.840 I am also confident
00:21:21.200 that the perpetrator
00:21:22.040 would be disbarred,
00:21:23.160 that assuming
00:21:24.140 that the perpetrator
00:21:25.100 was already a member
00:21:25.980 of the bar,
00:21:27.340 sometimes clerks
00:21:28.320 are members of the bar,
00:21:29.060 sometimes they're not yet.
00:21:30.120 Like, I was not yet
00:21:31.040 a member of the bar
00:21:31.640 when I was a clerk
00:21:32.340 because I had not yet
00:21:33.720 had time to take
00:21:34.540 the bar exam.
00:21:35.180 I took the bar exam
00:21:36.620 right when I finished
00:21:37.320 my clerkship.
00:21:38.440 If this clerk,
00:21:39.380 you know,
00:21:39.920 presumed clerk,
00:21:41.200 were not yet
00:21:42.280 admitted to the bar,
00:21:43.880 could they be
00:21:44.580 preemptively held
00:21:46.500 from ever entering the bar?
00:21:49.000 I don't think
00:21:50.160 any bar
00:21:50.940 would admit this person.
00:21:52.680 I think this person's
00:21:53.760 legal career is over
00:21:54.820 if they are.
00:21:56.040 Okay.
00:21:56.440 And by the way,
00:21:57.240 that's a big deal.
00:21:58.120 To be a Supreme Court clerk
00:21:59.400 is the pinnacle
00:22:00.480 of legal achievement
00:22:03.400 for a student
00:22:04.200 coming out of law school.
00:22:05.220 They're only 36
00:22:06.080 in the entire country.
00:22:08.120 You get a signing bonus
00:22:09.980 at a law firm
00:22:10.760 as a Supreme Court clerk.
00:22:11.800 I think the current bonus
00:22:12.900 is $350,000
00:22:14.340 the day you walk
00:22:15.900 into the door
00:22:16.500 at the law firm.
00:22:18.180 When I was clerking,
00:22:19.280 it was 50 grand.
00:22:20.240 So you can see inflation.
00:22:21.860 It makes a big difference.
00:22:24.820 But at a minimum,
00:22:27.740 the perpetrator
00:22:28.700 would be fired
00:22:29.640 and would never practice law.
00:22:33.080 But there's a very real possibility.
00:22:35.400 So in the course
00:22:35.980 of the investigation,
00:22:37.120 the investigators
00:22:37.800 will question the clerks.
00:22:39.060 If they lie
00:22:42.080 to the federal officers,
00:22:43.860 Section 1001
00:22:45.220 of the Federal Criminal Code
00:22:46.440 makes it a felony
00:22:47.900 to lie to a federal officer.
00:22:50.160 That carries prison time.
00:22:52.900 And so if they lie
00:22:54.040 in the course
00:22:54.520 of the investigation,
00:22:56.520 I think they should be prosecuted
00:22:58.660 and they should serve
00:22:59.540 the maximum prison time possible.
00:23:01.820 If they don't lie,
00:23:03.020 it's a little more complicated
00:23:04.160 whether they've in fact
00:23:05.180 violated a criminal prohibition
00:23:06.680 or not.
00:23:07.140 I've actually asked my team
00:23:08.720 to try to do some
00:23:09.780 deep dive research on that.
00:23:13.140 But I think regardless,
00:23:16.760 the penalty should be
00:23:19.160 as significant as possible
00:23:21.180 because the damage
00:23:23.780 to the court
00:23:24.520 will be far lasting.
00:23:25.980 It is going to make it
00:23:26.880 incredibly difficult
00:23:28.040 for the justices
00:23:29.040 to trust the process
00:23:31.040 of deciding cases
00:23:34.040 in a collaborative matter,
00:23:35.240 sharing drafts,
00:23:36.280 going back and forth.
00:23:37.500 If people treat it
00:23:38.900 as just another
00:23:39.620 political process,
00:23:40.880 that does massive damage
00:23:43.040 to the court's ability
00:23:43.860 to do its job.
00:23:45.200 So putting this criminal aside,
00:23:48.760 you know,
00:23:48.980 hopefully we can deal
00:23:50.720 with this person.
00:23:51.640 They're disbarred.
00:23:52.540 They get thrown in jail
00:23:54.060 in Alcatraz
00:23:54.660 and they throw away the key.
00:23:56.160 I almost don't even care
00:23:57.480 about that person
00:23:58.400 in spite of the attacks
00:24:01.340 on the court
00:24:01.940 and the institutional integrity
00:24:03.160 because I care so much
00:24:04.700 about the case.
00:24:06.420 So I don't want them
00:24:08.040 to take away the joy
00:24:09.060 that pro-lifers
00:24:10.040 should feel here
00:24:10.680 in that it looks right now
00:24:12.560 like the court
00:24:13.060 is going to overrule
00:24:14.020 Roe and Casey.
00:24:15.080 This is something
00:24:15.540 we've been waiting for
00:24:16.560 for half a century.
00:24:18.100 62 million babies
00:24:19.420 have been killed
00:24:20.120 throughout since
00:24:21.760 the Roe v. Wade decision.
00:24:23.260 So this is huge news
00:24:25.040 unless it isn't.
00:24:26.620 This was just a draft
00:24:27.440 from February.
00:24:28.160 So where does the case stand?
00:24:30.240 Well, that's exactly right.
00:24:32.620 And that is the single
00:24:33.520 most dangerous thing
00:24:34.660 about this leak.
00:24:36.200 The reason in all likelihood
00:24:39.260 that this leak happened
00:24:40.660 is a left-wing law clerk
00:24:42.900 was trying to direct
00:24:44.020 political pressure
00:24:45.220 to the five justices
00:24:47.720 to cause them
00:24:48.480 to switch their vote.
00:24:49.580 And justices switch
00:24:50.640 their votes all the time.
00:24:52.660 It's not a majority opinion.
00:24:54.400 It's not a holding
00:24:55.020 of the court
00:24:55.580 until the opinion issues.
00:24:57.360 At this point,
00:24:59.380 it's just a draft.
00:25:00.780 And this,
00:25:03.340 one of the things
00:25:04.200 to understand
00:25:04.720 about this leak,
00:25:05.740 this is the most
00:25:07.840 egregious manifestation
00:25:09.760 of a multi-year campaign
00:25:12.760 by Democrats
00:25:13.720 to politicize the court
00:25:15.900 and to pressure it.
00:25:19.440 And, you know, look,
00:25:20.240 I'll give you some examples.
00:25:22.200 So Senator Schumer
00:25:23.820 stood on the steps
00:25:25.580 of the court
00:25:26.040 a couple of years ago.
00:25:27.800 Held a press conference.
00:25:29.220 And here's what he said.
00:25:29.980 He said, quote,
00:25:31.500 I want to tell you, Gorsuch,
00:25:34.060 I want to tell you, Kavanaugh,
00:25:36.700 you have released the whirlwind
00:25:39.820 and you will pay the price.
00:25:42.580 You won't know what hit you
00:25:44.660 if you go forward
00:25:46.340 with these awful decisions.
00:25:48.500 So you had
00:25:49.640 then the Senate minority leader,
00:25:51.860 now the Senate majority leader,
00:25:53.220 directly threatening justices
00:25:55.180 if they didn't vote
00:25:56.280 if they didn't vote
00:25:56.300 the way he wanted.
00:25:57.780 Sheldon Whitehouse
00:25:58.580 is a senior Democrat
00:25:59.560 in the Judiciary Committee.
00:26:01.140 He filed an amicus brief
00:26:03.040 in the court
00:26:03.960 that stated, quote,
00:26:05.760 perhaps the court
00:26:07.480 can heal itself
00:26:08.560 before the public demands
00:26:11.060 it be restructured
00:26:13.060 in order to reduce
00:26:15.240 the influence of politics.
00:26:17.800 Particularly on the urgent issue
00:26:19.460 of gun control,
00:26:20.220 a nation desperately
00:26:21.960 needs it to heal.
00:26:23.820 These are partisan Democrats
00:26:25.960 threatening and trying
00:26:27.820 to intimidate the court
00:26:29.020 to decide cases
00:26:30.040 the way they want.
00:26:31.860 That manifested even further
00:26:33.860 in the campaign
00:26:34.960 to pack the court,
00:26:36.820 to add four new left-wing justices
00:26:38.900 and grow it to 13.
00:26:41.160 And by the way,
00:26:43.100 not just that,
00:26:44.140 so there's a whole
00:26:45.000 dark money network,
00:26:46.160 what's called
00:26:46.480 the Arabella network
00:26:47.580 of wealthy leftists
00:26:50.400 who played wage,
00:26:52.700 dark money campaigns
00:26:53.780 on judicial confirmations.
00:26:56.820 They went to
00:26:58.160 Brett Kavanaugh's house
00:26:59.520 trying to intimidate him
00:27:01.360 personally
00:27:01.920 and threaten his family
00:27:03.120 with Justice Breyer,
00:27:05.540 the reliably liberal
00:27:07.260 Democrat Justice Breyer
00:27:09.260 demand justice,
00:27:10.800 which is the kind of
00:27:12.160 main front group
00:27:13.000 for the leftists,
00:27:14.800 launched a campaign
00:27:16.080 to force Justice Breyer
00:27:18.120 to retire,
00:27:20.100 including
00:27:20.840 creating a mobile
00:27:23.520 billboard truck
00:27:24.900 to pressure Justice Breyer.
00:27:27.920 These are partisan Democrats.
00:27:30.420 And so after this leak happened,
00:27:32.660 let me tell you
00:27:34.600 what some of these
00:27:35.320 leftist activists
00:27:36.180 have said.
00:27:39.260 Guy named Brian Fallon,
00:27:41.120 who is the executive director
00:27:42.640 of Demand Justice,
00:27:43.800 used to work for Chuck Schumer.
00:27:44.960 He tweeted out,
00:27:47.280 quote,
00:27:49.160 SCOTUS leaks are good.
00:27:52.660 Elite lawyers
00:27:53.420 on both the left and right
00:27:54.680 treating the court
00:27:55.560 as precious
00:27:56.520 all these years
00:27:58.260 have been given cover
00:27:59.840 to an institution
00:28:00.900 that is wholly unaccountable.
00:28:04.240 Rip the veil off.
00:28:07.120 There's another guy,
00:28:07.860 another leftist guy
00:28:08.600 named Ian Millheiser,
00:28:10.000 who tweeted the following.
00:28:11.840 Serious,
00:28:14.220 seriously,
00:28:15.600 shout out
00:28:16.520 to whoever the hero
00:28:18.900 was within the Supreme Court
00:28:20.860 who said,
00:28:23.180 F it,
00:28:24.020 although he didn't
00:28:24.680 abbreviate F.
00:28:26.580 F it, 0.99
00:28:27.820 let's burn this place 1.00
00:28:29.580 down. 1.00
00:28:32.120 That
00:28:32.760 is what the left
00:28:34.460 is doing
00:28:34.940 with ending the filibuster,
00:28:36.420 with trying to take over
00:28:38.020 federal elections.
00:28:38.880 They're trying to burn
00:28:39.700 the Senate down.
00:28:40.420 They're trying to destroy
00:28:41.200 our institutions.
00:28:42.400 And this leak
00:28:43.800 reflects the manifestation
00:28:46.160 of that multi-year campaign
00:28:48.320 to burn the court down,
00:28:50.560 and their activists
00:28:51.440 are cheering this.
00:28:53.040 So will it work,
00:28:54.340 Senator?
00:28:54.800 Will this pressure campaign
00:28:56.440 and the leak
00:28:57.200 and the whole operation here,
00:28:58.600 will it work
00:28:59.580 to pressure
00:29:00.720 one of the five justices
00:29:02.420 to flip the vote?
00:29:03.620 Are we going to see
00:29:04.600 the ruling anytime soon?
00:29:06.200 Are they going to wait
00:29:06.820 for a month or two
00:29:07.800 or are we going to get it?
00:29:08.820 We've already seen a draft
00:29:09.720 from February.
00:29:11.020 What is the status
00:29:11.920 of the case right now?
00:29:13.560 So I don't think
00:29:14.280 it will work.
00:29:15.320 The Chief Justice today
00:29:16.740 put out a statement
00:29:17.680 saying that it will not work,
00:29:19.460 that it will not intimidate
00:29:20.460 the court.
00:29:21.140 This is an obvious attempt
00:29:22.440 to pressure the justices
00:29:23.820 to change their votes.
00:29:26.160 And I think
00:29:27.540 it is likely to backfire,
00:29:29.500 that it's likely
00:29:30.440 to cause them
00:29:31.340 to dig in even more.
00:29:33.260 Because for any justice
00:29:34.920 at this point,
00:29:35.820 when it's publicly known
00:29:37.280 that you were voting
00:29:38.120 one way,
00:29:38.820 for you to give in
00:29:39.760 to the political pressure
00:29:41.060 and flip
00:29:41.660 would do
00:29:44.160 possibly permanent damage
00:29:46.840 to the credibility
00:29:47.520 of the court.
00:29:48.500 It would be
00:29:49.660 to transform the court
00:29:51.040 into a nakedly
00:29:52.820 political body.
00:29:54.300 Interestingly enough,
00:29:55.480 I think nobody
00:29:56.400 is more dismayed
00:29:57.340 about this
00:29:57.820 than John Roberts.
00:29:58.720 Even though,
00:30:00.360 according to the
00:30:01.300 Politico report,
00:30:02.860 he doesn't agree
00:30:03.460 with overturning
00:30:04.180 Roe versus Wade,
00:30:05.080 he cares deeply
00:30:07.240 about the institutional
00:30:08.340 credibility of the court.
00:30:09.660 As you know,
00:30:10.220 I know John Roberts
00:30:11.020 very, very well.
00:30:12.580 I am certain
00:30:13.560 he is horrified.
00:30:15.120 And in fact,
00:30:15.680 I think,
00:30:16.300 I have no doubt
00:30:17.260 all nine justices
00:30:18.260 are horrified.
00:30:18.800 To give you a sense
00:30:19.920 of the character
00:30:22.700 of the place,
00:30:24.060 I clerked
00:30:25.920 for Chief Justice Rehnquist
00:30:27.600 1996 to 1997.
00:30:29.920 At the time,
00:30:34.140 there was a tradition
00:30:34.960 where the law clerks
00:30:36.100 for each justice
00:30:36.880 would go
00:30:37.760 and have lunch
00:30:39.740 with each
00:30:40.600 of the other justices.
00:30:41.600 It's a very cool tradition,
00:30:42.560 so you got to go
00:30:43.140 have lunch
00:30:43.520 with each
00:30:43.820 of the other eight.
00:30:46.460 At the time,
00:30:47.300 I clerked Byron White,
00:30:49.440 who was a retired justice,
00:30:51.140 but he still went into work.
00:30:52.180 And we very much
00:30:56.160 wanted to have lunch
00:30:56.940 with Byron White.
00:30:58.660 He refused to have lunch.
00:31:00.840 And the reason
00:31:01.980 he wouldn't have lunch
00:31:03.220 is because of the Brethren.
00:31:05.940 So Bob Woodward,
00:31:07.680 the reporter
00:31:08.480 of Woodward and Bernstein,
00:31:09.860 wrote the book
00:31:10.400 The Brethren.
00:31:11.080 It came out in the 70s.
00:31:12.380 And it's like this
00:31:13.760 tell-all
00:31:15.360 from within the Supreme Court
00:31:16.820 with lots of gossip
00:31:17.760 and lots of internal information
00:31:19.400 about the deliberations
00:31:21.140 of the court.
00:31:22.180 A number of law clerks
00:31:23.860 after the fact
00:31:24.720 talked with Woodward.
00:31:25.960 There's speculation
00:31:27.060 at least one justice,
00:31:28.700 likely Potter Stewart,
00:31:30.240 talked with Woodward.
00:31:31.400 And it was a scandal
00:31:33.080 at the court
00:31:33.800 of massive proportions.
00:31:35.460 So I read The Brethren
00:31:36.600 when I was in high school.
00:31:37.480 I think I was 15
00:31:38.140 when I read it.
00:31:39.300 And I thought,
00:31:40.080 okay, this,
00:31:41.080 like being a Supreme Court
00:31:42.680 law clerk
00:31:43.140 sounds like the most amazing job
00:31:44.860 on the face of the planet.
00:31:46.360 I want to do this
00:31:47.500 more than anything else.
00:31:48.640 And it worked out
00:31:50.220 that I got to.
00:31:50.880 But ever since
00:31:52.640 The Brethren,
00:31:53.360 Byron White said,
00:31:54.660 I won't sit down
00:31:56.140 and talk to other law clerks.
00:31:57.340 I'll talk to my own clerk,
00:31:58.820 but I won't talk
00:31:59.520 to other law clerks
00:32:00.300 because of The Brethren.
00:32:02.800 That's,
00:32:03.300 and by the way,
00:32:03.900 this was decades later
00:32:05.840 that White still 1.00
00:32:07.300 would not have lunch
00:32:08.440 with clerks
00:32:09.000 from other chambers.
00:32:09.720 I think the repercussions
00:32:12.640 of this will also be
00:32:14.560 decades long.
00:32:17.500 But I also think
00:32:18.960 it is likely
00:32:19.700 to harden
00:32:20.620 the five justices
00:32:21.700 in the majority.
00:32:22.400 In fact,
00:32:22.600 I don't think
00:32:23.240 it's impossible.
00:32:24.820 Roberts joins them
00:32:26.260 because of this leak.
00:32:27.900 I doubt it,
00:32:29.120 but the chances
00:32:29.780 aren't zero
00:32:30.660 that Roberts
00:32:32.260 writes something
00:32:33.100 that said
00:32:33.540 this leak is
00:32:34.620 wholly unprecedented,
00:32:37.920 wholly unjustified,
00:32:39.040 an assault
00:32:39.700 on the integrity
00:32:41.240 of the court.
00:32:41.920 You know,
00:32:42.100 the closest analogy
00:32:43.320 is the Obamacare case
00:32:46.380 that upheld Obamacare.
00:32:48.140 And in that case,
00:32:49.660 after the decision
00:32:50.660 came down,
00:32:52.300 there was
00:32:53.280 widespread leaking
00:32:54.780 that Roberts
00:32:56.580 had initially voted
00:32:58.440 to strike down
00:32:59.440 Obamacare
00:33:00.260 and then had switched
00:33:02.120 his vote
00:33:02.860 to uphold it.
00:33:05.280 And I have no reason
00:33:06.740 to doubt that reporting.
00:33:08.100 Now,
00:33:08.220 that was prior
00:33:09.240 to this,
00:33:09.740 the greatest breach
00:33:10.400 that had ever happened.
00:33:11.140 It was really dismaying
00:33:12.160 to see the clerks
00:33:13.740 leaking like this.
00:33:15.880 But that was
00:33:16.900 a qualitatively
00:33:17.960 different situation
00:33:18.820 because those leaks
00:33:19.720 all came after the fact,
00:33:21.220 after the opinion
00:33:22.060 was down,
00:33:22.740 just providing
00:33:23.440 some explanation
00:33:25.180 and context.
00:33:27.120 In this instance,
00:33:28.500 the leak happened
00:33:29.240 before the opinion
00:33:30.600 was issued,
00:33:31.280 and it's an effort
00:33:32.680 to intimidate
00:33:33.280 intimidate the justices
00:33:34.740 into changing
00:33:35.700 their votes.
00:33:36.360 It's why
00:33:36.940 it's a threat
00:33:38.080 on the independence
00:33:38.760 of the judiciary
00:33:39.380 because it's designed
00:33:40.600 to try to move
00:33:41.720 their votes.
00:33:42.740 I think the effect
00:33:43.840 will be the opposite
00:33:44.680 in that it will
00:33:45.440 harden them
00:33:46.220 because no justice
00:33:48.460 wants to show
00:33:49.380 that they're so
00:33:50.180 unprincipled
00:33:50.820 they can be moved
00:33:51.480 by this.
00:33:51.980 Right.
00:33:52.860 Now, before I let you go,
00:33:54.320 Senator,
00:33:54.640 I know it's been
00:33:55.120 a very long day
00:33:55.920 and there's still
00:33:56.420 much more to do,
00:33:57.420 but I've got to turn
00:33:58.200 to your particular
00:33:59.340 branch of government now
00:34:00.440 because one of the
00:34:01.900 consequences of this leak
00:34:03.260 is you've got all
00:34:04.240 of the elected Democrats
00:34:05.280 up to and including
00:34:06.020 Joe Biden
00:34:06.700 saying that
00:34:07.820 we need to codify
00:34:09.380 Roe v. Wade
00:34:10.200 into law.
00:34:10.900 If the court
00:34:11.520 is going to behave
00:34:12.160 in this irresponsible manner
00:34:13.260 and strike down Roe v. Wade,
00:34:14.500 then we need
00:34:15.060 a national
00:34:16.060 pro-abortion
00:34:17.620 law.
00:34:19.420 Can Joe Biden
00:34:20.320 get that done?
00:34:20.960 I do not believe so.
00:34:22.780 I think he can pass
00:34:24.160 it through the House.
00:34:25.080 They've got a majority
00:34:25.880 in the House
00:34:26.400 and I think the Democrats
00:34:27.240 will stick together
00:34:28.020 and you may have
00:34:28.900 a couple of Republicans
00:34:30.220 in the House.
00:34:30.900 I don't,
00:34:31.700 I haven't followed
00:34:32.400 the kind of abortion
00:34:33.520 lines in the House,
00:34:34.340 but there may well be
00:34:35.060 some pro-choice
00:34:35.800 Republicans in the House.
00:34:37.960 In the Senate,
00:34:39.160 he will not get it done
00:34:40.260 because to get it done
00:34:41.920 will require 60 votes
00:34:43.580 because of the filibuster.
00:34:45.780 He would get,
00:34:46.600 he'll get all 50 Democrats
00:34:48.020 and I'm sure
00:34:48.560 we'll vote on it.
00:34:49.300 He will get Susan Collins
00:34:51.580 and I think he will likely
00:34:52.560 get Lisa Murkowski. 1.00
00:34:54.760 You get to 52.
00:34:56.960 I don't know
00:34:57.660 that you get any higher.
00:34:58.620 The other 48
00:34:59.340 are on record
00:35:00.800 that Roe is wrong.
00:35:03.880 In this case,
00:35:04.860 I filed an amicus brief
00:35:06.320 with the court
00:35:06.840 along with Mike Lee
00:35:07.800 and Josh Hawley
00:35:08.640 arguing to the court
00:35:10.520 specifically
00:35:11.160 that it should overturn
00:35:12.420 Roe v. Wade.
00:35:13.220 I don't think
00:35:15.600 there's any universe
00:35:16.500 in which we get
00:35:17.220 to 60 votes,
00:35:18.140 so I assume
00:35:18.980 the Democrats
00:35:19.520 will try to force
00:35:20.260 a vote on it
00:35:20.920 and they'll lose the vote.
00:35:22.580 Now, there is some danger
00:35:23.980 that Schumer,
00:35:25.420 in fact,
00:35:25.720 I think it is certain
00:35:26.680 that Schumer
00:35:27.360 will use this
00:35:28.240 to try to end
00:35:29.560 the filibuster.
00:35:30.960 Right.
00:35:31.740 There's some danger
00:35:32.560 he succeeds
00:35:33.300 and if this becomes
00:35:34.900 the issue
00:35:35.360 they blow up
00:35:35.900 the filibuster on,
00:35:37.200 they will have succeeded
00:35:38.640 in permanently damaging
00:35:40.900 two branches of government
00:35:42.400 instead of just one.
00:35:43.640 So you think
00:35:44.500 there is a chance
00:35:45.660 that,
00:35:46.600 as they've already
00:35:47.320 said explicitly,
00:35:48.360 I think,
00:35:48.960 that not only
00:35:49.840 will they try
00:35:50.720 to get rid of
00:35:51.920 the filibuster
00:35:52.460 on this issue,
00:35:53.560 but they would actually
00:35:54.600 succeed in doing so?
00:35:55.840 They could get
00:35:56.280 maybe a Joe Manchin
00:35:57.240 or a Kyrsten Sinema
00:35:58.200 or who knows?
00:35:59.980 I think it is possible.
00:36:01.840 I don't know
00:36:02.940 that it would happen,
00:36:04.440 but I think
00:36:06.060 their plan is to try.
00:36:07.400 One fast point,
00:36:08.960 I don't believe
00:36:10.380 any Democrat senator
00:36:12.800 has condemned
00:36:13.420 the leak today.
00:36:14.400 If they have,
00:36:15.060 I haven't seen it
00:36:15.820 and I was watching
00:36:16.440 for it.
00:36:17.560 It is ominous
00:36:18.960 that the Democrats
00:36:20.460 are not even willing
00:36:21.860 to condemn the leak
00:36:22.900 and everyone
00:36:25.140 should condemn
00:36:26.180 the leak
00:36:26.640 as grossly,
00:36:28.580 a gross violation
00:36:30.020 of trust
00:36:30.600 and it's ominous
00:36:31.840 that if Democrat
00:36:33.360 senators did so,
00:36:34.320 I didn't see it.
00:36:35.380 Wow.
00:36:35.700 That is spooky
00:36:36.640 and does maybe
00:36:37.400 tell you something
00:36:38.080 about how they're
00:36:38.560 thinking about
00:36:39.140 a national abortion
00:36:40.200 law or ending
00:36:40.960 the filibuster
00:36:41.660 on that scary note.
00:36:43.760 We must leave you.
00:36:44.820 We will see you
00:36:45.460 on Apple Podcasts,
00:36:46.700 YouTube,
00:36:47.320 Spotify,
00:36:48.060 everywhere you get
00:36:48.760 your podcasts.
00:36:49.740 Make sure you subscribe
00:36:50.380 to Verdict.
00:36:51.200 Leave a five-star review
00:36:52.200 if you don't mind.
00:36:53.440 In the meantime,
00:36:53.900 I'm Michael Knowles.
00:36:54.920 This is Verdict
00:36:55.540 with Ted Cruz.
00:36:56.420 This episode of Verdict
00:37:06.520 with Ted Cruz
00:37:07.340 is being brought to you
00:37:08.460 by Jobs, Freedom,
00:37:09.600 and Security Pack,
00:37:10.780 a political action committee
00:37:12.200 dedicated to supporting
00:37:13.380 conservative causes,
00:37:14.780 organizations,
00:37:15.640 and candidates
00:37:16.320 across the country.
00:37:17.720 In 2022,
00:37:18.920 Jobs, Freedom,
00:37:19.660 and Security Pack
00:37:20.560 plans to donate
00:37:21.420 to conservative candidates
00:37:22.720 running for Congress
00:37:23.780 and help the Republican Party
00:37:25.420 across the nation.
00:37:27.500 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:37:29.840 Guaranteed Human.