Verdict with Ted Cruz - October 21, 2020


American Oligarchs


Episode Stats

Length

28 minutes

Words per Minute

167.0018

Word Count

4,734

Sentence Count

336

Misogynist Sentences

4

Hate Speech Sentences

6


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.420 Guaranteed human.
00:00:04.300 We have all talked for months and months and years and years
00:00:08.980 about the threats that big tech is posing to free expression,
00:00:13.660 to the First Amendment, to our public square,
00:00:16.480 to self-government itself.
00:00:18.420 Now, finally, the government is taking action.
00:00:21.840 The Department of Justice is suing Google
00:00:24.100 on the grounds of antitrust.
00:00:26.780 The U.S. Senate is going to subpoena
00:00:28.400 Jack Dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg,
00:00:30.920 the heads of Twitter and Facebook.
00:00:33.580 Big tech is finally being called to account.
00:00:36.520 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.
00:00:43.840 Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz.
00:00:46.360 I'm Michael Knowles, joined as ever by Senator Cruz.
00:00:50.220 Senator, I like to think that on this show,
00:00:53.380 we predict the future,
00:00:54.940 and I guess sometimes actually maybe affect the future
00:00:57.340 because we're talking about laws that could be passed
00:01:00.200 and big moves that could be taking place
00:01:02.500 in the federal government.
00:01:03.680 Last episode, we talked about this crazy story
00:01:06.260 with big tech censoring a New York Post investigation
00:01:09.680 into Hunter Biden and possible corruption
00:01:12.940 involving Joe Biden.
00:01:14.740 Big tech suppressed the story, shut it down.
00:01:16.640 We all saw it going on for days.
00:01:18.040 Now it appears the federal government is taking action.
00:01:20.940 All I've seen are the headlines, Senator,
00:01:22.560 that the DOJ is going to try to break up Google
00:01:25.040 and that the Senate Judiciary Committee
00:01:26.980 is going to subpoena the other heads of big tech.
00:01:30.140 What can you tell us about what is actually going on?
00:01:33.320 Well, sure.
00:01:33.860 This has been a big and momentous week on multiple fronts,
00:01:37.600 as you just noted, concerning big tech.
00:01:40.680 Let's start with Twitter and Facebook.
00:01:44.200 And last week during the confirmation hearing
00:01:46.640 on Judge Barrett,
00:01:47.640 we had one story that came out Wednesday night.
00:01:49.960 That was the New York Post blockbuster story on Ukraine
00:01:53.800 based on Hunter Biden's emails
00:01:56.680 and alleging on its face corruption by Joe Biden
00:02:03.600 and that he had lied in saying that he had not met
00:02:08.940 with these Ukrainian oligarchs.
00:02:11.540 The next day, Thursday,
00:02:13.440 and we recorded a verdict podcast
00:02:15.800 with that information that night
00:02:17.680 because both Twitter and Facebook blocked that story.
00:02:23.040 If any individual user tried to tweet out
00:02:26.440 that New York Post story,
00:02:28.280 you got a warning sign that said you couldn't tweet it,
00:02:32.460 you couldn't post it,
00:02:33.540 and Twitter said that this was potentially harmful.
00:02:37.400 Well, the next day, Thursday morning,
00:02:40.200 the story actually, it got worse
00:02:42.680 because the New York Post broke a second blockbuster story.
00:02:46.780 This second one was again from the same trove
00:02:50.140 of emails on Hunter Biden's laptop, allegedly.
00:02:53.800 This one concerning communist China
00:02:55.720 and an offer from communist China
00:02:58.840 to pay not only Hunter Biden millions of dollars,
00:03:01.600 but to pay Joe Biden himself millions of dollars.
00:03:05.260 The emails refer to Joe Biden as, quote,
00:03:07.680 the big guy.
00:03:08.540 And it's an offer of serious cash directly to Joe Biden.
00:03:14.120 So once again, Twitter blocked that.
00:03:19.360 And I have to admit, I saw this.
00:03:21.060 So I'm sitting on my phone
00:03:22.040 during the Judge Barrett confirmation hearing,
00:03:25.220 and I'm up at the dais and I'm on my phone
00:03:27.120 and I'm looking at the story and I'm like,
00:03:29.220 wow, this is unbelievable.
00:03:31.080 And so I put together a tweet,
00:03:33.180 you know, will Twitter block this one too?
00:03:35.380 And I hit send and boom, Twitter's blocked it
00:03:38.860 and I can't send it.
00:03:41.080 And I'm like furious.
00:03:44.100 And so I get up and called Lindsey Graham over
00:03:48.760 and he and I stepped out back.
00:03:50.600 And so the public hearing room where we do the hearings
00:03:54.440 is in the Hart Senate office building.
00:03:56.060 And there's an area back behind us like the anti-room.
00:03:58.140 So I pulled Lindsey back and I was worked up.
00:04:01.200 I said, you know what?
00:04:02.540 Let's subpoena Twitter right now.
00:04:04.120 So we're meeting, the judiciary committee is here.
00:04:07.000 Let's do it right now.
00:04:08.940 Get Jack Dorsey to come right here
00:04:11.180 and explain what in the hell he is doing.
00:04:13.960 So I got to admit, Lindsey's staff
00:04:16.820 was very worried about this.
00:04:19.000 And look, to be fair, they're sitting there saying,
00:04:21.440 well, let's not do anything to screw up
00:04:22.980 the Judge Barrett confirmation.
00:04:24.420 And I understand that.
00:04:25.460 And I'm like, well, look, obviously,
00:04:27.100 I don't want to do anything to screw that up.
00:04:29.500 And so they were nervous.
00:04:30.720 Let's just, let's not do anything else.
00:04:32.380 Let's just do Judge Barrett.
00:04:35.300 But this was so, so absurd.
00:04:39.600 I told Lindsey, we got to do something.
00:04:41.680 So what his staff has said is, well, look,
00:04:43.320 we can notice a hearing for next week
00:04:46.180 and vote on subpoenas next week.
00:04:49.840 And I said, great.
00:04:50.900 And Lindsey said, you know, if you want,
00:04:52.340 you and I can go announce it to the TV cameras right now.
00:04:54.820 I said, great, let's go.
00:04:55.560 We both walk out.
00:04:58.480 It's during a break in the Judge Barrett hearing.
00:05:00.160 So it's just, there was a kind of a five-minute break.
00:05:03.040 Lindsey and I walk out to the TV camera out there.
00:05:06.700 And we both announced together that the Judiciary Committee
00:05:09.920 will be voting on subpoenas to subpoena Jack Dorsey
00:05:13.060 to testify in front of judiciary.
00:05:16.860 And that blew up the news.
00:05:19.360 That was literally just on the fly,
00:05:22.100 Lindsey and me talking in the ante room.
00:05:23.880 And we agreed, let's go announce it.
00:05:27.080 And now this week we'll be teeing it up.
00:05:29.480 This is something that I realized during impeachment.
00:05:32.300 And I suppose probably the listeners
00:05:34.120 and viewers realized it too,
00:05:35.560 that I didn't understand before.
00:05:37.240 In my mind, the way the government,
00:05:38.980 and especially the Senate works,
00:05:40.360 is that everything is pre-planned
00:05:42.200 and nothing happens on the spur of the moment.
00:05:44.400 And you just know what's going to happen.
00:05:46.460 And that's that.
00:05:48.440 What I realized was that's not really what happens.
00:05:51.040 In the moment, I mean, as you described during impeachment,
00:05:53.040 you'd hear a question.
00:05:54.400 You'd hear Adam Schiff say something.
00:05:55.880 You'd go into the cloakroom.
00:05:56.960 You'd talk to Senator so-and-so.
00:05:58.480 You guys would make a plan to do this, that, or the other thing.
00:06:01.100 And obviously that's what's happening here as well.
00:06:03.120 Twitter's decision to censor this information,
00:06:06.960 to suppress it,
00:06:08.060 led directly to Jack Dorsey getting subpoenaed
00:06:10.800 on the fly, in the moment.
00:06:13.700 And we'll get into the legal issue, I suspect, in a moment.
00:06:16.460 But I think it is important for listeners to consider
00:06:19.220 just the way that our political system is structured right now,
00:06:23.020 that a U.S. senator in a hearing
00:06:25.440 trying to post new information
00:06:28.700 that has just come out from the oldest
00:06:30.180 continually published daily newspaper in the country,
00:06:32.700 founded by Alexander Hamilton, the New York Post,
00:06:35.340 trying to put that out there in the public square
00:06:37.400 could be censored by a tech oligarch in Silicon Valley.
00:06:41.840 That is the, regardless of the legal question,
00:06:43.540 that is the political situation
00:06:44.900 that we're looking at now as we head into these subpoenas.
00:06:47.160 So look, you and I, and on Verdict,
00:06:49.340 we've been talking about tech censorship a long time.
00:06:51.860 And a lot of us have been very concerned
00:06:54.000 about tech bias and censorship for years.
00:06:56.980 It's been getting steadily worse.
00:06:59.160 It's been escalating more and more and more.
00:07:02.820 Last week was a dramatic escalation.
00:07:07.420 Last week, it's one thing for big tech
00:07:10.740 to silence individual Americans speaking.
00:07:14.560 They're doing far too much of it.
00:07:15.840 It's wrong and it's, and I am leading the fight to stop it.
00:07:20.460 But last week represented something very, very different,
00:07:23.340 which is they silenced a major media publication.
00:07:27.460 The New York Post has the fourth highest circulation
00:07:29.540 of any newspaper in America.
00:07:31.520 And not only could you or I or any American,
00:07:34.180 you couldn't tweet their story.
00:07:36.360 Twitter actually blocked the New York Post itself,
00:07:39.340 prevented the New York Post
00:07:40.620 from posting their own story
00:07:44.020 and silenced the media from speaking.
00:07:47.180 And it actually, you know, Politico,
00:07:50.960 certainly not a right-leaning publication,
00:07:53.580 to put it mildly,
00:07:54.880 a Politico journalist sent out some tweets
00:07:58.180 about the New York Post story
00:07:59.660 and the Politico journalist got blocked.
00:08:01.820 And this is big tech asserting
00:08:04.580 the power to censor the media.
00:08:07.880 And, you know, if reporters had even the tiniest hint
00:08:12.140 of integrity,
00:08:14.100 they'd be losing their minds over this.
00:08:19.040 Right.
00:08:19.280 Because this is literally Jack Dorsey
00:08:21.100 and Mark Zuckerberg saying
00:08:22.280 they can decide what media outlets
00:08:25.320 in America can report
00:08:26.640 and what anyone in America is allowed to see.
00:08:29.260 Because if they can censor the New York Post,
00:08:31.480 they can censor the New York Times.
00:08:32.840 If they can silence Politico,
00:08:34.780 they can silence the Washington Post
00:08:36.340 or they can silence Fox News.
00:08:37.780 And crossing that threshold
00:08:39.900 of we're now going to silence,
00:08:43.780 silence the media
00:08:48.300 is incredibly dangerous
00:08:53.040 two weeks out from an election.
00:08:55.180 Certainly.
00:08:55.940 No reporter cares.
00:08:57.420 They're so invested in defeating Donald Trump
00:09:01.020 that they're willing to let Jack Dorsey censor them
00:09:03.960 and to decide which of the stories
00:09:06.160 can be published.
00:09:08.660 And it's it's these are these are American oligarchs.
00:09:12.060 I mean, you want to talk about the oligarchs of Russia?
00:09:14.400 These are oligarchs with money that that believe
00:09:17.440 they're drunk on their own power.
00:09:20.400 Right.
00:09:20.920 I think I think this is the point
00:09:22.420 when when people use the phrase fake news,
00:09:24.400 I think sometimes it's a little bit ambiguous
00:09:26.700 what that means.
00:09:27.700 But I think in its most precise meaning,
00:09:30.220 it's not that every single news story is false.
00:09:32.860 It's not that every single reporter is corrupt.
00:09:34.900 It's that the news itself is fake
00:09:37.560 because it isn't the news,
00:09:38.920 because the focus is not on reporting the news.
00:09:41.860 The focus is not on standing up to censorship
00:09:43.560 when the outlets are censored.
00:09:44.980 It's all just about advancing a narrative
00:09:47.120 that benefits one political party over another.
00:09:49.960 Well, and, you know, so the
00:09:51.500 most of the Democratic senators
00:09:53.960 have ignored this issue,
00:09:55.280 have ignored the New York Post story,
00:09:56.800 have ignored
00:09:57.420 ignored Twitter censorship
00:10:01.060 and Facebook censorship.
00:10:04.200 By the way, the Biden campaign has ignored it.
00:10:07.180 So Joe Biden,
00:10:08.440 about the only thing the Biden campaign has said
00:10:10.420 is there's no meeting with the oligarch
00:10:12.280 on his official schedule.
00:10:13.940 So they haven't denied
00:10:15.160 that this was Hunter Biden's laptop.
00:10:16.840 They haven't denied
00:10:17.520 that these are Hunter Biden's emails.
00:10:19.180 They haven't denied that Joe Biden
00:10:20.880 met with the oligarch,
00:10:22.520 even though he said said previously he did not.
00:10:25.100 They haven't denied that
00:10:26.360 that communist China
00:10:27.360 offered Joe Biden millions of dollars.
00:10:29.600 So there's no one's even asked them.
00:10:32.080 You know, Biden did an ABC town hall
00:10:34.360 the day after these stories broke
00:10:37.420 and they didn't bother to ask him.
00:10:38.840 It's simply it doesn't exist.
00:10:41.500 It's been disappeared.
00:10:43.580 But when it comes to Democratic senators,
00:10:46.340 to the extent they've said anything about it,
00:10:48.880 their talking point has been
00:10:50.600 this is Russian disinformation.
00:10:53.660 OK, well, I'm not aware of any evidence of that.
00:10:57.920 Um, the director of national intelligence
00:11:00.400 has said it's not.
00:11:01.740 But if somebody has evidence
00:11:03.560 that it's Russian disinformation, great.
00:11:05.280 Show us the evidence.
00:11:06.080 Look, if these emails are fake,
00:11:07.880 that's highly relevant.
00:11:09.480 I if they if they're.
00:11:11.240 But at this point, Joe Biden
00:11:12.360 isn't claiming they're fake.
00:11:14.120 Right.
00:11:14.340 Well, it would seem, you know,
00:11:16.600 the fact that the Biden campaign
00:11:18.520 won't deny it
00:11:19.340 and the fact that photos
00:11:20.620 were released as well.
00:11:22.120 Either these Russian disinformers
00:11:23.920 have the greatest Photoshop skills
00:11:25.960 in the world,
00:11:26.400 or what we're looking at
00:11:28.060 is legitimate material
00:11:29.940 from Hunter Biden's computer.
00:11:32.220 If something's fake,
00:11:33.280 that's actually what journalism is for.
00:11:36.340 So I'm perfectly fine
00:11:37.760 with people reporting it.
00:11:38.800 If you share the New York Post story,
00:11:40.600 it turns out the story is wrong.
00:11:41.820 Fine.
00:11:42.120 Then they'd put out the refutation
00:11:43.500 and show that it's wrong.
00:11:44.860 But big tech doesn't want to do that.
00:11:46.720 They just simply want
00:11:47.720 to make it disappear.
00:11:48.840 And I think big tech believes
00:11:53.280 they are not accountable
00:11:54.340 to anybody.
00:11:56.200 And that's why I think
00:11:57.380 it's so important
00:11:58.260 that they testify.
00:12:00.240 Oh, I think so as well.
00:12:01.920 I was thrilled
00:12:02.860 when I saw that you were calling
00:12:04.460 for Dorsey and Zuckerberg
00:12:05.980 to come and testify.
00:12:07.660 I have to ask you
00:12:08.740 for a little behind the scenes,
00:12:10.000 though, a little cloakroom gossip,
00:12:11.360 if you don't mind,
00:12:12.060 which is that I've seen headlines
00:12:13.200 that some Republicans
00:12:14.600 on the committee are wavering.
00:12:17.320 That's the term
00:12:17.860 that's been reported.
00:12:18.840 Are people going soft here?
00:12:20.580 Are we actually going to hear
00:12:21.500 from Zuckerberg and Dorsey
00:12:22.960 or not?
00:12:24.100 I believe we will.
00:12:25.780 It is true.
00:12:26.920 We are having,
00:12:27.880 I guess what I'll characterize
00:12:30.120 as vigorous internal conversations.
00:12:33.600 Right.
00:12:34.680 We were supposed to vote today.
00:12:36.640 This is Tuesday.
00:12:37.380 You and I are talking.
00:12:38.200 I think the pod
00:12:38.660 will probably come out tomorrow,
00:12:39.760 but we were supposed
00:12:41.080 to vote today on the subpoenas.
00:12:42.640 We haven't voted today.
00:12:44.680 There is a vote noticed
00:12:46.420 for Thursday.
00:12:47.680 So two days from now
00:12:49.360 on the subpoenas.
00:12:50.900 Twitter and Facebook
00:12:52.020 are right now negotiating
00:12:53.520 with the Judiciary Committee
00:12:54.860 about potentially appearing voluntarily.
00:12:59.260 And actually next week,
00:13:01.460 they're going to be appearing
00:13:03.040 before the Commerce Committee.
00:13:04.520 I also serve
00:13:05.280 on the Commerce Committee.
00:13:06.400 So I'm going to be
00:13:07.000 at a hearing next week
00:13:08.020 with the heads of Google,
00:13:09.440 Facebook and Twitter anyway.
00:13:11.960 Commerce is a very different committee
00:13:14.140 than Judiciary.
00:13:14.720 I'm on both of the committees,
00:13:15.860 so I'm fine with that.
00:13:18.440 But Commerce,
00:13:19.340 the issue is Commerce focuses
00:13:20.740 on Section 230
00:13:21.820 will be part of the discussion
00:13:23.080 in the Commerce hearing.
00:13:25.580 But Judiciary is on both sides,
00:13:29.560 Democrat and Republican,
00:13:30.800 frankly,
00:13:31.880 manned by junkyard dog prosecutors
00:13:35.940 who know how to pound
00:13:37.280 the hell out of a witness.
00:13:38.460 It's just a different,
00:13:39.800 that ain't Commerce.
00:13:40.760 Commerce is lovey-dovey,
00:13:42.060 kumbaya.
00:13:42.440 The, it's a lot easier
00:13:44.700 to testify in front of Commerce
00:13:46.000 than Judiciary.
00:13:47.440 What I am pressing for,
00:13:49.220 what I want to see happen,
00:13:51.100 is I want to see Dorsey
00:13:53.020 and Zuckerberg testify in person.
00:13:55.700 They prefer to do it remotely.
00:13:57.720 I want to drag their asses
00:13:59.600 to Washington to sit down
00:14:01.240 in that hearing
00:14:01.800 and answer questions.
00:14:02.980 And I think it needs to be
00:14:04.240 before the election.
00:14:06.080 I believe we'll see them testify
00:14:07.980 before the election.
00:14:09.800 I hope it's in person.
00:14:12.160 That's what I'm pressing for.
00:14:15.500 And whether it is by subpoena
00:14:17.660 or voluntary,
00:14:19.120 it doesn't really matter.
00:14:21.260 My objective is that they testify.
00:14:23.100 If they agree to voluntarily
00:14:24.160 show up, fine,
00:14:25.920 as long as it's in person
00:14:28.440 before the election.
00:14:29.540 But where the votes are
00:14:31.500 on Judiciary,
00:14:32.140 I don't know.
00:14:32.620 We may find out on Thursday.
00:14:34.320 We may see it teed up for a vote.
00:14:36.260 I think we'll see
00:14:37.360 all the Republicans
00:14:38.080 come on board
00:14:38.800 if it actually gets pressed
00:14:40.000 to a vote.
00:14:40.640 I think there's some folks
00:14:41.540 that are nervous,
00:14:44.180 but nervous is not
00:14:45.220 the same thing as voting now.
00:14:47.060 You know, Senator,
00:14:47.660 I read the mailbag
00:14:48.740 to this show
00:14:49.440 and we get a lot of emails
00:14:51.180 and a huge number of people
00:14:53.640 are asking when these guys
00:14:56.060 are going to be dragged
00:14:56.820 in front of Congress
00:14:58.000 and in front of the Senate
00:14:58.860 to answer questions.
00:14:59.820 So I hope that your colleagues
00:15:00.920 on the committee
00:15:01.500 get the message.
00:15:02.720 Very interesting.
00:15:03.580 It actually had not occurred to me
00:15:04.900 that testifying before
00:15:06.100 different committees
00:15:06.980 has a different tenor.
00:15:07.880 because you have different people
00:15:08.880 on those committees
00:15:09.540 and I'm not at all surprised
00:15:11.440 the Judiciary Committee
00:15:12.380 has more of a bulldog
00:15:14.220 kind of style.
00:15:15.300 I certainly want to see them
00:15:16.360 dragged before that committee
00:15:18.200 and answer those questions.
00:15:19.660 I also have to ask you, though,
00:15:20.840 about this separate question.
00:15:21.840 We've been focusing
00:15:22.340 on Facebook and Twitter,
00:15:24.140 but the big kahuna,
00:15:25.380 the real giant in this space
00:15:27.660 is actually not Twitter
00:15:29.300 and it's not even Facebook.
00:15:31.020 It's Google.
00:15:31.980 The DOJ has just announced
00:15:33.620 that they are going to sue Google
00:15:35.280 on antitrust grounds.
00:15:37.860 Obviously, I am not an expert
00:15:39.740 in antitrust law
00:15:40.720 and I suspect most people
00:15:42.020 who are calling for big tech
00:15:43.460 to be broken up
00:15:44.180 aren't expert in that either.
00:15:46.340 What is the case here?
00:15:48.120 And do you think
00:15:49.140 it will be successful
00:15:49.900 and do you think it's advisable?
00:15:51.720 So I'm very glad DOJ
00:15:53.060 is moving forward
00:15:53.880 and filing a case.
00:15:54.980 The exact details of it
00:15:56.320 will be coming out
00:15:57.220 in coming days and weeks.
00:15:59.100 But as I understand it,
00:16:00.100 they're bringing a case
00:16:00.980 that Google is a monopoly
00:16:02.140 and it's abusing
00:16:03.160 its monopoly power.
00:16:05.100 And at least some of what
00:16:06.260 the case is focusing on
00:16:08.000 is that they force,
00:16:10.040 for example,
00:16:10.860 phone companies
00:16:11.640 to preload Google on it
00:16:14.040 as your search engine
00:16:15.240 when you get a phone.
00:16:17.060 And they use their market power
00:16:20.380 to prevent competitors
00:16:21.460 from doing the same.
00:16:22.420 And look,
00:16:24.780 Google is very good
00:16:26.120 at leveraging one monopoly
00:16:28.960 and to power
00:16:29.920 in all sorts of other areas.
00:16:32.060 And so from the initial announcements,
00:16:34.340 that's what the case
00:16:35.300 is going to focus on.
00:16:36.760 I hope one component of the case
00:16:39.220 is using their monopoly power
00:16:41.660 to censor political speech.
00:16:43.940 That doesn't fall as traditionally
00:16:46.300 or cleanly into antitrust laws.
00:16:48.600 And it's one of the things
00:16:49.600 we've talked about.
00:16:51.460 In fact, when you and I
00:16:52.140 talked with Bill Barr,
00:16:53.160 I mean, I have in the last four years
00:16:55.080 raised this issue
00:16:57.100 personally and directly
00:16:58.300 with the president
00:16:59.240 multiple times,
00:17:00.240 with the vice president,
00:17:01.260 with the White House chief of staff,
00:17:02.480 with the White House counsel,
00:17:03.840 with the attorney general,
00:17:04.960 with the deputy attorney general,
00:17:06.220 with the assistant attorney general
00:17:07.380 for antitrust,
00:17:08.420 with the chairman
00:17:08.980 of the Federal Trade Commission.
00:17:10.220 I mean, this is,
00:17:11.960 I think it's the biggest threat
00:17:13.860 in the country
00:17:14.800 to free speech,
00:17:16.080 to a free press
00:17:17.340 and to our democracy,
00:17:20.120 to our elections.
00:17:21.220 So I hope,
00:17:23.720 and Google is
00:17:25.020 by far the worst actor.
00:17:27.420 So as I sort of rank
00:17:28.660 the actors of big tech,
00:17:31.240 Facebook,
00:17:32.400 I have problems with,
00:17:33.620 but comparatively speaking,
00:17:35.420 they're the least bad
00:17:37.200 of the big guys.
00:17:39.100 Then there's Twitter,
00:17:40.300 which is quite brazen.
00:17:41.960 And then by far the worst,
00:17:43.800 I believe,
00:17:44.180 is Google.
00:17:44.600 And Google owns YouTube.
00:17:45.400 So I throw YouTube into it.
00:17:48.080 And you remember Google's motto
00:17:50.500 used to be,
00:17:52.160 do no evil?
00:17:53.880 Yeah.
00:17:54.280 Don't be evil
00:17:55.160 or something to that effect.
00:17:56.160 Don't be evil.
00:17:56.700 Don't be evil.
00:17:57.320 Yeah.
00:17:58.340 And then they just scrapped it.
00:18:00.260 I mean,
00:18:00.540 they literally scrapped the motto.
00:18:03.280 And I don't know
00:18:04.040 if it was what,
00:18:04.960 they were twirling
00:18:05.700 their mustache
00:18:06.260 and like the fires of Hades
00:18:08.880 to which they were
00:18:09.700 condemning the globe
00:18:10.740 and decided,
00:18:11.900 oh,
00:18:12.020 let's not forswear evil anymore.
00:18:13.520 I mean,
00:18:13.800 it really is.
00:18:16.640 And the amount of,
00:18:18.320 look,
00:18:18.900 Google's worth
00:18:20.200 over a trillion dollars.
00:18:21.480 They have,
00:18:22.040 I think,
00:18:22.340 $120 billion
00:18:24.080 in cash.
00:18:26.760 Just like the change,
00:18:27.960 apparently sitting around
00:18:28.820 in the sofas
00:18:29.460 and between the cushions
00:18:31.340 and their sofas.
00:18:32.120 Like,
00:18:32.740 the massive power
00:18:34.440 Google has
00:18:35.240 and they are
00:18:36.120 completely brazen
00:18:38.560 about using it
00:18:41.340 to advance
00:18:41.940 their political ends.
00:18:42.860 And I will say,
00:18:43.320 I have a theory,
00:18:43.900 by the way.
00:18:45.280 So on these
00:18:45.960 New York Post stories,
00:18:47.060 we know that Facebook
00:18:48.200 and Twitter blocked it.
00:18:49.620 To our knowledge,
00:18:50.960 Google hasn't blocked it.
00:18:52.280 So I actually tried,
00:18:53.300 went to Google
00:18:53.820 and typed in
00:18:54.580 and Google,
00:18:55.540 it comes up.
00:18:56.280 And I have a theory
00:18:57.120 that actually the reason
00:18:58.280 Google didn't block it
00:18:59.520 is because they knew
00:19:00.640 this DOJ case was coming.
00:19:02.580 That they're on
00:19:03.620 mildly better behavior
00:19:06.460 because they're
00:19:08.740 facing massive litigation.
00:19:10.980 I can't prove that.
00:19:11.760 That's just a theory.
00:19:13.260 No,
00:19:13.380 it's a good suggestion,
00:19:14.340 Senator,
00:19:14.580 because I did wonder
00:19:16.040 at the time,
00:19:16.560 I said,
00:19:16.800 wait a second,
00:19:17.360 how's Google not jumping
00:19:18.480 on this bandwagon?
00:19:19.420 But of course,
00:19:20.100 Google is getting word
00:19:21.160 when you're talking
00:19:21.860 about an entity
00:19:22.440 as large as the DOJ
00:19:23.600 or the federal government.
00:19:24.680 Obviously,
00:19:25.240 they know what's
00:19:26.260 coming down the pike.
00:19:27.060 And what you focused on there
00:19:29.400 is search,
00:19:30.640 which when most people
00:19:31.480 think about how YouTube
00:19:32.640 is abusing its power
00:19:33.740 or Google is abusing its power,
00:19:35.300 they think it's through video
00:19:36.340 or they think it's through
00:19:37.140 advertising or they think it's,
00:19:38.880 but in this 57 page complaint
00:19:41.740 that the DOJ has just filed here,
00:19:43.800 they actually focus in on search.
00:19:46.620 And search is Google's core product.
00:19:49.180 If you make it to the first page
00:19:50.540 of a Google search,
00:19:51.740 that it has so much power,
00:19:53.920 so much more power
00:19:54.780 than if you're on page two
00:19:56.120 or page 2000 for that matter.
00:19:58.400 And Google, we know,
00:19:59.220 manipulates search
00:20:00.080 for ideological ends.
00:20:02.540 But what do you say, Senator,
00:20:03.920 beyond the ideological question,
00:20:05.360 beyond the free speech question,
00:20:07.960 what do you say to people,
00:20:09.240 maybe they're a little more
00:20:09.980 libertarian leaning,
00:20:11.280 who say, listen,
00:20:12.300 it's a free market
00:20:13.420 and Google's a private company,
00:20:15.540 sort of,
00:20:16.020 and if Google, you know,
00:20:18.120 is not to your liking,
00:20:19.500 well then, fella,
00:20:20.720 just go make your own Google.
00:20:22.140 Do you think conservatives
00:20:23.060 are betraying
00:20:24.260 our kind of free market preferences?
00:20:28.180 Yeah, look,
00:20:28.520 I understand those sentiments.
00:20:29.960 You know,
00:20:30.100 I will say, by the way,
00:20:31.300 that some of the voices,
00:20:32.720 particularly in D.C.,
00:20:33.800 that echo them,
00:20:35.560 some of the more libertarian outfits,
00:20:38.480 get a whole lot of money
00:20:39.640 from big tech.
00:20:41.120 And one problem we have
00:20:43.100 in our own neck of the woods,
00:20:45.640 in terms of the center-right,
00:20:48.180 conservative, libertarian world,
00:20:50.040 is there are some folks who,
00:20:52.160 if you write them
00:20:52.620 a big enough check,
00:20:53.500 suddenly,
00:20:54.080 if you look at some
00:20:54.940 of the most vigorous
00:20:57.200 defenders of tech
00:20:58.440 from all of this scrutiny,
00:21:00.980 for many of them,
00:21:02.440 there's a money trail
00:21:03.200 to be followed.
00:21:04.320 Right.
00:21:05.180 But let me take
00:21:06.380 the critique
00:21:07.520 on face value.
00:21:09.400 I am a free market conservative.
00:21:13.720 I believe in free markets.
00:21:14.820 That doesn't mean
00:21:15.380 we don't have laws.
00:21:16.460 That doesn't mean
00:21:17.100 you don't have
00:21:17.500 the antitrust laws.
00:21:18.900 The antitrust laws
00:21:19.900 have been on the books
00:21:20.700 for almost 100 years.
00:21:23.500 Yeah.
00:21:23.920 And abusing
00:21:25.680 a monopoly position,
00:21:27.080 which is what Google does,
00:21:29.120 has been against the law
00:21:30.680 a very long time.
00:21:33.340 Of course it is right
00:21:34.820 the government
00:21:35.340 shouldn't be regulating speech.
00:21:36.940 We don't want
00:21:38.040 some federal police officer
00:21:39.860 saying this speech is good,
00:21:41.120 this speech is bad.
00:21:41.880 That would be
00:21:42.420 a terrible outcome.
00:21:44.300 And by the way,
00:21:44.820 the Democrats
00:21:45.240 would love that outcome.
00:21:46.360 So we need to be
00:21:47.180 very cautious
00:21:47.860 about where
00:21:49.420 they want to take this.
00:21:52.020 But there's a difference
00:21:53.160 between that
00:21:54.040 and not letting someone
00:21:55.300 abuse their monopoly power.
00:21:57.000 And there's also
00:21:57.680 a difference.
00:21:59.140 Section 230,
00:22:00.080 which we've talked about
00:22:00.900 a lot on this podcast,
00:22:02.800 is a special immunity
00:22:04.200 from liability
00:22:05.060 that Congress gave big tech
00:22:07.240 that nobody else gets.
00:22:08.240 And it's basically a subsidy.
00:22:09.760 All right,
00:22:09.900 you want to put it
00:22:10.360 in free market terms?
00:22:11.820 End Section 230
00:22:12.880 because it's a damn subsidy
00:22:14.680 to the biggest,
00:22:15.960 most profitable companies
00:22:17.160 on earth.
00:22:17.740 It's corporate welfare
00:22:18.780 and it immunizes them
00:22:21.140 from behaving
00:22:21.900 like the totalitarian
00:22:23.320 star chamber.
00:22:24.740 And so that's
00:22:25.240 a pure free market argument,
00:22:26.800 which addresses directly
00:22:30.400 what the threat is
00:22:31.520 and the magnitude.
00:22:32.360 If you believe
00:22:33.700 in the principles
00:22:34.720 of free speech,
00:22:35.720 which is that we ought
00:22:36.540 to be able to speak
00:22:37.360 and debate freely,
00:22:38.960 allowing one or two billionaires
00:22:41.240 to have a monopoly
00:22:42.240 on every means
00:22:43.580 of communication
00:22:44.420 is a really,
00:22:47.120 really dangerous phenomenon.
00:22:49.060 Absolutely.
00:22:49.840 I agree entirely with that.
00:22:51.600 And I think
00:22:52.160 there is nothing conservative
00:22:54.460 about allowing
00:22:56.040 a couple of oligarchs
00:22:57.640 to dominate our public square
00:22:59.000 and control the flow
00:22:59.940 of information.
00:23:00.740 And of course,
00:23:01.100 there's nothing conservative
00:23:01.880 about letting companies
00:23:02.800 brazenly violate the law,
00:23:04.540 laws that have been
00:23:05.360 on the books for 100 years
00:23:06.620 or laws that have been
00:23:07.140 on the books for 25 years.
00:23:08.700 You have assuaged my fears
00:23:10.460 on this free market issue.
00:23:12.940 And I think a lot of conservatives
00:23:14.420 are recognizing that threat.
00:23:16.860 We have a question,
00:23:17.880 by the way, Senator,
00:23:18.640 in our remaining couple of minutes
00:23:19.860 that is just as important
00:23:22.280 in my view.
00:23:22.980 I was going to bring this up
00:23:24.540 with you personally,
00:23:25.420 as a matter of fact,
00:23:26.340 because I was very worried
00:23:27.540 when this was mentioned
00:23:29.260 on the Senate floor.
00:23:30.260 This is from Gregory.
00:23:32.360 Is Senator Cruz
00:23:33.440 really a vegan?
00:23:35.800 Say it ain't so, Senator.
00:23:36.880 This is after your colleague,
00:23:38.620 Cory Booker,
00:23:39.340 came out
00:23:39.780 and made this wild accusation
00:23:41.380 on the Senate floor.
00:23:42.160 Please clear this up for us.
00:23:45.240 It was a hurtful
00:23:46.400 and scurrilous attack.
00:23:49.060 It was deeply personal.
00:23:51.820 And it was lies,
00:23:53.800 damn lies,
00:23:54.620 and statistics.
00:23:56.180 Great.
00:23:56.400 I am emphatically
00:23:57.780 a Cuban-Texan carnivore,
00:24:00.880 but I will concede
00:24:04.320 that all of the animals
00:24:06.140 that I eat
00:24:06.840 are vegetarians.
00:24:11.080 And, you know,
00:24:12.960 so Cory Booker said that
00:24:14.860 and it was a moment of levity
00:24:17.480 where I popped back at him.
00:24:20.220 What would surprise people
00:24:21.760 is Cory and I actually
00:24:22.800 get along quite well.
00:24:23.960 I like Cory personally.
00:24:27.120 We've actually gone out
00:24:28.420 to dinner,
00:24:28.940 although I let him
00:24:30.500 pick the place
00:24:31.260 and he went to
00:24:32.040 a vegetarian restaurant.
00:24:33.440 It was truly maddening.
00:24:34.460 I was like,
00:24:34.820 could they go kill some animal
00:24:36.180 and serve it for dinner, please?
00:24:38.120 I'll be right back.
00:24:40.440 But look,
00:24:41.140 I actually think
00:24:41.840 one of the reasons
00:24:42.900 Cory didn't do very well
00:24:45.220 in the Democratic
00:24:45.900 presidential primary
00:24:46.940 is because he's not a jerk.
00:24:49.880 Yeah.
00:24:50.360 And I think
00:24:51.100 they wanted someone
00:24:54.160 to be tough
00:24:54.960 and a jerk
00:24:55.600 in that primary.
00:24:56.440 And so Cory was kind of
00:24:57.360 faking it
00:24:58.460 and he wasn't very good
00:25:00.160 at faking it.
00:25:01.320 Yeah.
00:25:02.100 Yeah, I think that
00:25:02.980 that came across.
00:25:04.160 The I am Spartacus moment
00:25:05.740 is a good example
00:25:07.380 of
00:25:07.720 a less than authentic moment
00:25:11.640 than we have seen.
00:25:15.140 I agree.
00:25:16.160 And he usually
00:25:17.120 when he's being
00:25:17.700 his authentic self,
00:25:18.740 he usually plays
00:25:19.760 a little bit fairer,
00:25:20.840 a little bit nicer,
00:25:21.580 except for that awful lie.
00:25:23.080 I have to tell you,
00:25:23.720 Senator,
00:25:23.960 we have had many meals together
00:25:26.300 and I thought,
00:25:27.340 hold on,
00:25:27.680 if Senator Cruz is a vegan,
00:25:28.740 I think I've never seen him
00:25:30.480 eat anything other than red meat
00:25:32.380 at a meal,
00:25:33.220 at lunch, dinner.
00:25:33.920 So I'm glad
00:25:35.000 that you've cleared this up.
00:25:36.220 Nothing has changed
00:25:36.920 in the meantime.
00:25:38.160 So, and you know this
00:25:39.560 because you,
00:25:40.160 are you still
00:25:40.860 a California resident
00:25:42.040 or have you gone
00:25:42.800 to Tennessee yet?
00:25:43.820 Where are you physically
00:25:44.700 right now?
00:25:45.280 Just for a few more minutes,
00:25:47.080 in about 10 or 12 days,
00:25:48.800 but I'm in la la land for now.
00:25:50.980 Well, as you know,
00:25:52.580 Heidi is a vegetarian
00:25:54.340 and she's from California
00:25:56.520 and her entire family
00:25:57.460 are vegetarians.
00:25:58.280 I'm married into a family
00:25:59.600 of California vegetarians.
00:26:01.480 I remember one of the first times
00:26:02.700 I went on a family vacation
00:26:03.900 with my in-laws.
00:26:04.820 We were out on a houseboat
00:26:06.640 on Lake Powell,
00:26:08.040 which is spectacular.
00:26:09.800 And my father-in-law
00:26:10.940 was like grocery shopping.
00:26:12.600 He didn't know what to do
00:26:13.260 with his carnivore son-in-law.
00:26:15.540 So at the grocery store,
00:26:16.780 he bought a giant salami
00:26:18.980 and said,
00:26:19.440 here, Ted,
00:26:20.160 here's some meat
00:26:20.780 for the week.
00:26:21.860 And it was kind of like,
00:26:23.000 thanks, Peter.
00:26:27.040 That's, you know,
00:26:28.160 and I will say, Senator,
00:26:29.520 it shows how open-minded
00:26:30.780 you are.
00:26:31.740 You know,
00:26:32.280 you've,
00:26:32.780 you can have a conversation
00:26:34.720 with Cory Booker.
00:26:35.900 You can share a table
00:26:37.020 with vegetarians,
00:26:38.340 share a family
00:26:38.900 with vegetarians even.
00:26:39.980 Have I told you
00:26:40.860 my dental theory
00:26:41.760 of this, by the way?
00:26:43.220 I don't think so, no.
00:26:44.920 So I have a dental theory.
00:26:46.640 So my father-in-law
00:26:47.380 is a dentist.
00:26:48.120 So I,
00:26:49.000 but my theory is
00:26:49.840 if you look at
00:26:50.340 the animal kingdom,
00:26:51.720 every animal
00:26:52.960 that has incisors,
00:26:54.560 like we do,
00:26:55.660 they are fangs
00:26:56.520 and they rip
00:26:57.320 the flesh
00:26:57.880 of other animals.
00:27:00.080 The animals
00:27:01.060 that chew their cut
00:27:04.020 or chew grass,
00:27:05.460 they don't have incisors.
00:27:06.700 So my dental theory is
00:27:08.260 look,
00:27:09.080 we, we have,
00:27:09.780 we have fangs
00:27:10.520 for a reason
00:27:11.340 and that is
00:27:12.700 to plunge our teeth
00:27:13.740 into a ribeye.
00:27:15.180 And,
00:27:15.760 and my dentist
00:27:17.300 father-in-law
00:27:17.900 is not persuaded
00:27:18.560 by that argument.
00:27:19.720 Well, Senator,
00:27:20.060 I find it very persuasive.
00:27:21.520 We have those incisors
00:27:22.800 and fangs
00:27:23.560 for a reason
00:27:24.700 and that reason
00:27:25.560 might be
00:27:26.060 the testimony
00:27:27.480 of big tech executives
00:27:28.780 in front of the
00:27:29.360 Senate Judiciary Committee.
00:27:30.380 I,
00:27:30.540 I suppose
00:27:31.140 there are many uses
00:27:32.200 for this.
00:27:32.740 We will,
00:27:33.440 we will have to
00:27:34.020 leave it there though.
00:27:35.000 Look,
00:27:35.500 look forward to
00:27:36.240 to following
00:27:37.660 the update
00:27:38.440 on big tech
00:27:39.480 and a number
00:27:40.340 of other issues
00:27:41.020 that we will have
00:27:41.860 to save until next time.
00:27:43.000 Until then,
00:27:43.780 I'm Michael Knowles.
00:27:44.520 This is Verdict
00:27:45.200 with Ted Cruz.
00:27:46.120 This episode of Verdict
00:27:56.760 with Ted Cruz
00:27:57.680 is being brought to you
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00:27:59.700 and Security Pack,
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