Verdict with Ted Cruz - An Expert’s Perspective On The Pandemic

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.500 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.480 A week ago, Verdict came to you from my living room

00:00:07.780 while I was self-quarantined in Texas

00:00:09.960 and Michael was skipping and scot-free in California.

00:00:14.040 Today, the tables are turned.

00:00:16.480 Now, Michael and the entire state of California

00:00:19.140 are on lockdown.

00:00:21.620 He's in effective quarantine

00:00:23.160 with the rest of the Golden State.

00:00:26.020 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:00:30.000 Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:00:37.260 I'm Michael Knowles coming to you from lockdown.

00:00:39.600 As now, even since the last time we spoke,

00:00:42.820 the seventh and 11th largest economies in the world

00:00:45.640 have gone on lockdown, California and New York.

00:00:49.360 Now, Senator, thank you very much for doing that cold open

00:00:52.700 because not only are you doing my job on the cold open,

00:00:56.420 you're also doing the job of the booking producer.

00:00:59.240 You have brought along one of your friends,

00:01:02.000 Senator Barrasso from Wyoming,

00:01:04.620 who has expertise not only as a senator,

00:01:07.760 but also as a physician to help us

00:01:09.640 try to understand this pandemic.

00:01:12.580 Well, John, welcome.

00:01:13.580 John Barrasso, senator from Wyoming,

00:01:15.460 but he's also Dr. Barrasso.

00:01:17.180 And so he is wearing not only a senator hat

00:01:20.780 as the number three Republican in leadership

00:01:23.500 and head of the Republican Conference,

00:01:24.880 but also someone who's been a medical doctor

00:01:27.100 for many decades now.

00:01:30.260 And so welcome, John.

00:01:31.020 Glad to have you.

00:01:31.760 Great to be here.

00:01:32.580 And I'll tell you, this is such a popular show,

00:01:35.220 certainly in Wyoming.

00:01:36.660 Verdict, people turned it on every night

00:01:38.300 during impeachment.

00:01:39.440 And well, but remember, four years ago,

00:01:41.820 you were the choice of Wyoming.

00:01:44.500 And we were big Trump territory now,

00:01:46.400 but I'll tell you,

00:01:47.120 you were the pick of the people of Wyoming

00:01:49.380 who went to the Republican Convention in 2016.

00:01:52.180 Well, John, thank you.

00:01:53.120 I will say you're the second senator

00:01:54.640 to join us on this podcast.

00:01:56.140 The first was Lindsey.

00:01:57.840 And Lindsey, in his typical understatement,

00:02:00.440 walked in and said,

00:02:01.540 what in the hell is a podcast?

00:02:04.880 The senator cleaning up his language, I think.

00:02:07.060 I'll also point out,

00:02:08.480 he looked at these gigantic microphones.

00:02:11.960 He looked at this shag carpet out of the 1970s.

00:02:14.400 And he said,

00:02:16.540 if you guys are the number one podcast in the world,

00:02:20.620 who the hell is number two?

00:02:23.160 Some guy in a park outside a van?

00:02:27.720 That's Lindsey. 0.70

00:02:28.640 So you've got a high bar to reach

00:02:30.540 because Lindsey's blazed the trail. 0.99

00:02:32.520 Well, he is must-see TV.

00:02:34.320 He's a high-wire act,

00:02:35.700 and people are always waiting to see

00:02:37.340 which side of the wire he's going to fall off of.

00:02:39.500 But he's amazing.

00:02:40.280 Well, Senator Barrasso,

00:02:41.520 I'm so glad you could join us today

00:02:43.040 because I know that typically

00:02:44.680 senators are able to go home for the weekends.

00:02:47.580 It looks like that will not be happening now.

00:02:49.500 There are multiple bills that have been voted on.

00:02:52.260 We're waiting on the next bill to come forward.

00:02:55.300 I was wondering if maybe we could talk,

00:02:57.660 as Senator Cruz, as you mentioned,

00:02:59.160 from your viewpoint as a physician,

00:03:01.860 so much of this is focused on

00:03:03.200 getting more respirators produced,

00:03:05.680 getting them out to hospitals.

00:03:06.960 Just from the medical perspective,

00:03:08.780 where do we stand right now?

00:03:09.880 Well, I'm happy to talk about all of those things

00:03:12.580 because you're right.

00:03:13.160 I go home every weekend to Wyoming,

00:03:14.560 was home last weekend,

00:03:15.800 talked to a number of folks who are physicians,

00:03:18.340 as I continue to do now by phone,

00:03:20.060 but was there in a number of events

00:03:21.440 around the state of Wyoming last weekend,

00:03:23.560 and we have changed dramatically

00:03:25.000 as America's economy,

00:03:26.480 and America has essentially shut down,

00:03:28.640 as has the world.

00:03:30.480 And when you think about last weekend,

00:03:32.460 we went from a day in Las Vegas

00:03:33.860 where the one day they were going to

00:03:35.740 close down the buffets,

00:03:36.960 to two days later,

00:03:38.100 they closed down the entire town.

00:03:39.880 So this is moving very quickly.

00:03:42.160 And so it is as well medically.

00:03:44.280 Talking to folks at home,

00:03:45.520 I talked to the hospital administrators,

00:03:47.800 do you have enough respirators?

00:03:49.380 Well, they have 18.

00:03:50.380 Now I've practiced medicine there since 1983,

00:03:53.180 so 37 years.

00:03:54.860 They've never used all of them at the same time.

00:03:57.140 So by any stretch of the imagination,

00:03:59.580 we have more than we need at our hospitals

00:04:02.440 and around the state of Wyoming.

00:04:05.480 But if this pandemic goes full-blown,

00:04:08.160 as we're concerned about

00:04:09.200 and what we're seeing in other places

00:04:10.540 around the world,

00:04:11.360 there may not be enough.

00:04:13.160 But to just put it into perspective,

00:04:14.860 and Ted and I were talking about this at lunch,

00:04:17.020 if you take a look at England,

00:04:19.460 the whole country,

00:04:20.840 about 50 or 60 million people,

00:04:23.020 they have 5,000 of these ventilators,

00:04:26.260 machines, breathing machines

00:04:27.660 that you can hook people up to.

00:04:28.980 We have 160,000.

00:04:32.540 So for every one they have in England,

00:04:34.380 we have 32.

00:04:35.820 But we only have about 5 to 6 times

00:04:38.840 the population that they have.

00:04:40.680 So we are the most prepared country

00:04:42.940 in the world to deal with this.

00:04:45.400 Do we have enough?

00:04:46.240 I hope so.

00:04:47.420 But we may not.

00:04:48.360 But if we don't, no one does.

00:04:50.040 And that's the concern,

00:04:51.200 and that's why we're working so much

00:04:52.580 with social isolation and separation

00:04:54.740 and keeping people distance,

00:04:56.380 trying to do the proper things with hygiene,

00:04:59.340 all in an effort to prevent more rapid spread

00:05:01.820 and a prevention of the ongoing concern

00:05:05.060 that we have about the capacity,

00:05:07.080 not just with respirators,

00:05:08.220 but what I hear when I talk to folks at home is,

00:05:10.380 are there enough tests?

00:05:11.180 Can we get people tested who have symptoms?

00:05:13.520 And then are there enough

00:05:14.440 personal protective equipment available?

00:05:17.380 So, John, let's unpack this a little bit.

00:05:19.920 And you and I were discussing this over lunch.

00:05:22.080 So the ventilators are these big machines.

00:05:25.040 For those of us without MDs,

00:05:26.620 the big machines that breathe for you

00:05:28.880 if you're either in surgery

00:05:32.580 or you've got severe respiratory problems.

00:05:35.520 In an intensive care.

00:05:36.420 In intensive care.

00:05:37.600 And so the challenge is that you look

00:05:42.240 at some of these countries,

00:05:43.460 and I think Italy has seen it the worst,

00:05:45.780 where we're reading stories out of Italy

00:05:47.560 where they've run out of ventilators

00:05:49.200 and they're sitting there with multiple patients

00:05:52.360 in respiratory failure

00:05:53.920 and they're having to make triage decisions

00:05:56.240 of this person gets a ventilator,

00:05:58.920 we're going to save this person's life,

00:06:00.400 and this person,

00:06:01.800 we're not going to save this person's life.

00:06:03.820 And they're not sure

00:06:05.020 if it actually is going to work

00:06:06.180 to save that person's life

00:06:07.420 because on average,

00:06:09.100 some of these people are on these machines

00:06:10.880 for 10 to 14 days.

00:06:13.500 And at what point do you know?

00:06:15.240 They've been there a week

00:06:16.140 and you don't know which way it's going to turn.

00:06:17.980 So one of these machines gets tied up a long time

00:06:21.000 with a patient who is on the machine,

00:06:23.220 which is why they're working so hard

00:06:24.680 with medicines that are already available worldwide

00:06:28.260 that may help shorten the amount of time

00:06:30.960 that somebody would need to be on the machine.

00:06:32.940 The president talked about that

00:06:34.060 with a malaria medicine,

00:06:35.160 there's some HIV AIDS medicine,

00:06:37.140 things that we think may be helpful.

00:06:40.300 Also hepatitis medicine.

00:06:41.820 You were chief of staff at a hospital

00:06:43.920 in Casper, Wyoming.

00:06:45.520 You said they had 18 ventilators

00:06:47.900 and your whole time there,

00:06:49.560 you never used all 18.

00:06:50.900 They were always...

00:06:51.120 Same time, yes.

00:06:53.280 What happens if at that hospital,

00:06:56.300 100 people show up with coronavirus

00:06:58.240 and with severe symptoms?

00:07:00.620 What happens then?

00:07:01.420 And the next thing you do after those 18

00:07:03.720 is the machines that you can use

00:07:05.560 in an operating room for anesthesia.

00:07:07.640 You put somebody to sleep.

00:07:09.100 But that takes additional manpower,

00:07:11.160 personnel that know how to use them.

00:07:13.120 Anesthesiologists know how to use them

00:07:15.000 as they do during a surgery.

00:07:16.720 But that's not 14 days.

00:07:18.220 So you'd have to have

00:07:19.340 a huge amount of resources,

00:07:21.460 people and personal protective equipment

00:07:23.940 to keep those people safe

00:07:26.180 while taking care of the folks

00:07:27.580 with coronavirus.

00:07:30.500 And that's the big concern

00:07:31.560 is that we may overwhelm

00:07:33.000 and tire out the staff as well.

00:07:34.800 They're already working

00:07:35.680 significant overtime hours.

00:07:37.960 And if any of them get the disease,

00:07:40.220 and some of them are,

00:07:41.380 then they're taken out of the fight.

00:07:44.040 Well, I know, Senator Cruz,

00:07:45.740 you made a point of writing

00:07:47.940 a letter about this.

00:07:49.060 In terms of getting these machines,

00:07:51.680 obviously, as Senator Barrasso says,

00:07:53.540 we're in a much better position

00:07:54.500 than other countries,

00:07:55.300 but we could use more.

00:07:57.080 You have suggested

00:07:58.180 that the administration invoke

00:08:00.180 the Defense Production Act.

00:08:02.480 This is a law from 1950

00:08:04.220 that would turn our manufacturing capacity

00:08:08.120 toward government ends,

00:08:10.560 especially in times of war,

00:08:11.980 times of a pandemic.

00:08:13.200 You requested that the administration

00:08:14.880 invoke this,

00:08:15.520 and it looks like today they have.

00:08:18.300 Well, that's right.

00:08:19.420 And so I wrote a letter this morning

00:08:21.460 to the Secretary of Health

00:08:22.640 and Human Services, Alex Azar,

00:08:24.200 and I urged him to use

00:08:26.020 the delegated authority

00:08:27.040 from the president

00:08:27.860 to direct the building

00:08:31.240 of critical medical equipment,

00:08:32.600 and in particular, ventilators.

00:08:34.020 I don't want to see us

00:08:35.280 in a situation

00:08:36.100 like horrifically

00:08:37.760 they're seeing in Italy.

00:08:38.640 I don't want to see doctors

00:08:39.800 having to make a choice

00:08:41.060 of who gets to live

00:08:42.740 and who has to die

00:08:43.880 because they don't have the equipment

00:08:45.300 to save their lives.

00:08:46.320 And you can't build

00:08:47.840 a ventilator overnight.

00:08:49.260 And if we wake up

00:08:50.640 two weeks from now

00:08:51.720 and instead of 11,000 cases,

00:08:55.960 we've got 200,000 cases

00:08:58.600 or a million cases,

00:09:00.420 it might be too late then.

00:09:02.820 And so I believe

00:09:04.160 that the president,

00:09:05.320 the administration,

00:09:06.000 ought to direct

00:09:06.800 the manufacture

00:09:08.280 of these ventilators

00:09:10.000 and masks

00:09:11.500 and other equipment

00:09:12.300 that is needed,

00:09:13.080 we ought to be directing it

00:09:14.240 right now

00:09:15.140 so that we can meet this crisis.

00:09:18.420 This is,

00:09:20.580 everyone recognizes

00:09:21.700 this is a public health threat.

00:09:23.160 We need to do everything

00:09:26.000 on the front end

00:09:26.860 to make sure

00:09:27.660 we're not forced

00:09:28.940 into an impossible situations

00:09:30.540 on the back end.

00:09:32.160 And, you know,

00:09:32.640 military opportunities

00:09:34.160 to use the equipment

00:09:35.040 there as well

00:09:35.700 from the VA hospitals

00:09:36.640 and other sources.

00:09:37.800 So there are some

00:09:38.660 additional capacity,

00:09:40.040 but it can still

00:09:40.720 get stretched to the limit.

00:09:42.180 And listen,

00:09:42.500 you don't necessarily

00:09:43.320 have to have

00:09:44.260 the hospital in Wyoming

00:09:46.700 doesn't necessarily

00:09:48.140 need to go

00:09:48.780 from 18 ventilators

00:09:50.120 to 100.

00:09:51.440 But there needs

00:09:52.840 to be a central repository

00:09:54.520 where ventilators

00:09:55.360 are being constructed

00:09:56.240 where you can surge

00:09:57.660 that if there's an outbreak

00:09:59.160 in a region

00:10:00.380 and ventilators are needed

00:10:02.840 that you can get them there

00:10:04.100 and you can get them there

00:10:05.120 in real time

00:10:06.320 where the need is.

00:10:09.140 You know,

00:10:10.060 some conservatives

00:10:10.980 have asked about this.

00:10:12.500 They say,

00:10:12.800 is this a government overreach?

00:10:14.440 Is the invocation of,

00:10:16.760 for instance,

00:10:17.140 the Defense Production Act

00:10:18.220 something that is unprecedented?

00:10:20.520 But it is worth noting,

00:10:22.600 this law has been invoked

00:10:24.420 many, many times

00:10:25.580 over the years.

00:10:26.180 It was invoked

00:10:26.600 during the Obama administration.

00:10:28.180 So while there might be concerns

00:10:30.000 about how the government

00:10:30.780 is handling this,

00:10:31.540 on this particular front,

00:10:33.180 it seems sort of

00:10:33.920 like a no-brainer.

00:10:35.400 Well,

00:10:35.920 and it's also

00:10:36.560 how America has overcome

00:10:38.440 virtually every major challenge

00:10:40.380 we've seen

00:10:40.900 is the incredible

00:10:41.700 economic might

00:10:43.240 of the American

00:10:43.980 free enterprise system.

00:10:45.140 I mean,

00:10:45.260 it's how we won World War II

00:10:46.420 as we directed.

00:10:47.840 Remember,

00:10:48.320 World War II for us

00:10:49.600 started with Pearl Harbor,

00:10:51.320 started with a kamikaze attack,

00:10:53.740 a surprise attack

00:10:54.620 that took out

00:10:55.500 a vast percentage

00:10:58.220 of our naval fleet.

00:11:00.280 and we leaned in

00:11:02.600 and rebuilt

00:11:03.460 and it was the power

00:11:04.500 of this economy

00:11:05.420 that enabled us

00:11:06.700 to win World War II.

00:11:10.180 We can mobilize

00:11:11.720 that same economic power

00:11:13.660 to make sure,

00:11:16.160 you know,

00:11:16.520 it was a striking thing,

00:11:17.760 John,

00:11:17.980 I don't know

00:11:18.380 if you watched

00:11:18.960 any of the debate

00:11:20.100 between Bernie

00:11:21.100 and Joe Biden.

00:11:22.620 Yes.

00:11:23.140 It was painful,

00:11:24.320 but I did.

00:11:24.920 I only endured

00:11:25.600 about 30 minutes of it.

00:11:26.920 There really was just sort of...

00:11:28.720 No sports on Sunday night.

00:11:30.120 You know,

00:11:30.280 the NBA was shut down.

00:11:32.400 But it was very interesting

00:11:35.360 when Bernie was pointing

00:11:36.680 to this crisis

00:11:37.880 as justification

00:11:38.820 for socialized medicine

00:11:40.820 and what he calls

00:11:42.400 Medicare for all.

00:11:43.880 I thought it was striking

00:11:45.500 that Biden jumped in

00:11:47.720 and said,

00:11:48.160 well,

00:11:48.260 you know,

00:11:48.480 Bernie,

00:11:48.940 Italy has socialized medicine

00:11:50.600 and we're seeing

00:11:51.900 that it isn't working there.

00:11:53.340 I mean,

00:11:53.560 that in a democratic primary

00:11:55.740 was this sort of startling

00:11:57.360 moment of sanity

00:11:58.500 that stood out

00:12:00.540 for how different it was

00:12:02.240 from almost everything else

00:12:03.140 in the primaries.

00:12:03.760 And even the Washington Post,

00:12:05.660 not known for being

00:12:07.140 a conservative voice,

00:12:08.440 had the challenges

00:12:10.280 of coronavirus

00:12:11.440 to countries

00:12:13.140 with socialized medicine.

00:12:14.920 And the statistics

00:12:16.000 that I just gave you

00:12:17.020 about respirators

00:12:17.940 and ventilators,

00:12:19.240 Michael,

00:12:19.440 the breathing machines

00:12:20.220 that cost $50,000 apiece,

00:12:22.080 that's where all the statistics

00:12:23.580 come to

00:12:24.040 as to how few they have

00:12:25.260 other places

00:12:25.820 compared to the United States

00:12:27.500 and why,

00:12:28.440 according to Johns Hopkins University,

00:12:30.040 the United States

00:12:30.660 is the most prepared country

00:12:32.040 in the world

00:12:32.600 to deal with this threat

00:12:34.200 that we're facing.

00:12:35.860 Now, you described

00:12:36.440 the U.S. versus England

00:12:37.920 and you said

00:12:38.420 we're much better prepared

00:12:39.420 than England.

00:12:39.980 They have socialized medicine

00:12:40.860 in England too.

00:12:42.400 How does the U.S. and England,

00:12:43.900 how do they compare to Italy?

00:12:45.460 Well,

00:12:45.820 both are better

00:12:47.260 than what's happening

00:12:47.880 in Italy now.

00:12:49.480 The virus,

00:12:50.220 it's unusual

00:12:50.840 with this virus,

00:12:51.740 we're seeing that

00:12:52.220 it seems to be affecting

00:12:53.320 not just older people,

00:12:54.860 older people who are smokers

00:12:56.100 and there's a question of

00:12:57.420 has the virus changed

00:12:59.280 and mutated a bit

00:13:00.380 in ways that it's

00:13:01.480 striking people differently.

00:13:02.840 You know,

00:13:02.920 you look at China, 0.98

00:13:03.680 they're kind of over the hump

00:13:04.780 it looks like

00:13:05.380 in terms of new cases.

00:13:06.340 If you believe them,

00:13:07.240 I don't believe them

00:13:08.100 and at the same time,

00:13:10.340 you're seeing

00:13:10.960 significant increases

00:13:12.740 in France.

00:13:13.480 They had a big jump

00:13:14.220 in deaths the other day.

00:13:15.340 So is it actually

00:13:15.940 getting worse in Europe

00:13:16.920 as it's getting better

00:13:18.100 in China?

00:13:19.160 You know,

00:13:19.360 Michael,

00:13:19.740 John and I

00:13:20.240 are both members

00:13:21.100 of two informal caucuses,

00:13:23.460 I would call them

00:13:24.000 in the Senate.

00:13:24.620 One is the boot caucus

00:13:26.780 and there are probably

00:13:28.760 20, 25 senators

00:13:30.880 that wear cowboy boots,

00:13:32.400 Republicans and Democrats.

00:13:34.220 And I've joked

00:13:35.000 that if you're wearing boots,

00:13:36.240 you can't be all bad.

00:13:38.180 Sometimes our colleagues

00:13:39.120 test that proposition.

00:13:41.060 And then secondly,

00:13:42.400 we are both

00:13:43.920 among the senators

00:13:45.500 of Italian-American heritage.

00:13:46.860 So as we look at

00:13:48.080 what's happening in Italy,

00:13:50.560 John's ancestors

00:13:51.840 and my own

00:13:53.000 trace their lineage there.

00:13:55.320 I'm sorry,

00:13:55.980 I have to say

00:13:56.660 I'm not in the boot caucus,

00:13:57.920 but I am in the Italian caucus.

00:13:59.620 And of course,

00:14:00.980 with a name like Cruz,

00:14:02.880 I wasn't so sure

00:14:03.700 about the Italian,

00:14:04.660 but I certainly would.

00:14:06.280 Cuban, Irish,

00:14:07.160 and just a little bit Italian.

00:14:09.320 That is excellent.

00:14:10.900 We claim him.

00:14:11.960 We claim him

00:14:12.580 and are happy to have him.

00:14:14.560 But I'm sorry,

00:14:15.400 I cut you off

00:14:15.960 as you were saying.

00:14:16.560 No, I mean,

00:14:17.420 Ted's right

00:14:19.920 and we talk about

00:14:20.700 socialized medicine

00:14:22.060 and they're always

00:14:23.640 stretched to the limits.

00:14:25.420 So they really cannot

00:14:26.700 handle the sort of things

00:14:28.140 that are happening

00:14:28.760 here globally.

00:14:31.040 The stretch is even greater

00:14:32.920 and it's certainly

00:14:33.460 this time of year.

00:14:35.200 British hospitals

00:14:36.000 are always overloaded

00:14:37.580 at this time of year

00:14:38.360 when they have to cancel

00:14:39.240 elective cases.

00:14:40.620 And we are now

00:14:41.760 in the United States

00:14:42.540 canceling elective cases

00:14:43.920 just to make sure

00:14:44.600 the capacity is there

00:14:45.660 and a lot of it

00:14:46.960 has to do with

00:14:47.440 these personal

00:14:48.000 protective equipment

00:14:50.240 that folks need 0.60

00:14:51.400 in terms of the masks,

00:14:52.500 in terms of the sterile gowns,

00:14:55.320 the gloves,

00:14:55.880 all of those things

00:14:56.960 because if there's

00:14:58.640 not enough of them,

00:14:59.640 then they shouldn't be

00:15:00.300 using them

00:15:00.740 for elective procedures.

00:15:02.580 Well, Senators,

00:15:03.140 I would be interested

00:15:03.780 in Senator Brasso,

00:15:05.020 your medical perspective

00:15:06.060 and then Senator Cruz

00:15:07.340 and your political perspective

00:15:08.640 as well

00:15:09.140 on what the state

00:15:10.540 lockdowns mean.

00:15:12.440 You know,

00:15:13.440 a lot of people

00:15:14.100 have written in

00:15:14.640 and they understand

00:15:15.560 that we have

00:15:16.680 a federal system

00:15:17.480 and so the states

00:15:18.680 can do things

00:15:19.220 that the federal government

00:15:19.980 cannot do.

00:15:21.220 But as a conservative

00:15:22.500 and as someone

00:15:23.460 with absolutely

00:15:24.180 no medical expertise

00:15:25.420 whatsoever,

00:15:26.600 how should I be looking

00:15:27.820 at the state lockdowns?

00:15:29.340 Are they a good thing?

00:15:30.220 Are they conservative?

00:15:31.140 Are they medically necessary?

00:15:32.840 Well, I'm a states' rights guy.

00:15:34.840 I mean, that's how I was

00:15:35.600 in the Wyoming state legislature.

00:15:37.240 I am still that way now

00:15:38.740 and it's the governor

00:15:39.940 of our state

00:15:40.720 that's making decisions.

00:15:42.780 In many states,

00:15:44.560 the governor can't even

00:15:45.340 close down the schools.

00:15:46.440 In our state,

00:15:46.980 it's a local decision

00:15:48.380 by various school boards,

00:15:50.060 local control,

00:15:51.140 local decisions.

00:15:52.400 So I think it's better

00:15:53.580 to have things done that way.

00:15:55.640 Education is so much

00:15:56.680 a part of this.

00:15:57.540 But the more we can do

00:15:58.520 to have people washing

00:16:00.500 more frequently,

00:16:01.620 staying in terms of

00:16:03.040 the away from each other,

00:16:05.060 the distancing,

00:16:05.900 all of those things,

00:16:06.780 I think is the better chance

00:16:08.060 to take care of

00:16:09.180 the first crisis,

00:16:10.080 which is the medical crisis

00:16:11.220 that we have,

00:16:12.260 and then deal with

00:16:13.200 the economic crisis

00:16:14.200 that we also have.

00:16:15.500 We just alluded a bit

00:16:16.620 to the economic crisis

00:16:17.820 and the strong

00:16:18.660 and robust economy

00:16:19.960 that we started from

00:16:21.380 and having to get that

00:16:22.480 all restored again.

00:16:25.140 To get to that point,

00:16:26.560 we have to get

00:16:27.160 the medical crisis behind us

00:16:28.700 and the best way to do it

00:16:30.100 is the social distancing,

00:16:31.820 the proper hygiene,

00:16:32.720 and all of the things

00:16:33.540 that we can do

00:16:34.100 to stop the spread

00:16:35.340 of the disease.

00:16:35.960 John, let me ask you.

00:16:37.380 As you know,

00:16:38.000 yesterday,

00:16:38.840 Gavin Newsom,

00:16:39.840 governor of California,

00:16:41.520 said that over half

00:16:43.920 of the people in California,

00:16:45.160 over 25 million people,

00:16:46.380 could become infected

00:16:47.560 with this virus.

00:16:49.620 As a doctor,

00:16:51.460 does that sound credible to you?

00:16:53.360 I hear a lot of people

00:16:54.280 that are not sure

00:16:56.220 the magnitude of the threat.

00:17:00.000 What's your assessment

00:17:00.880 from a medical perspective?

00:17:01.580 And Angela Merkel said

00:17:03.780 in Germany,

00:17:04.700 maybe 60 to 70 percent

00:17:06.020 of the population there.

00:17:07.700 If this continues to spread,

00:17:10.880 I think there's a difference

00:17:11.680 between having the disease

00:17:12.820 and testing positive

00:17:13.840 or having the virus.

00:17:16.200 What's the difference?

00:17:16.720 I think there are some people

00:17:17.880 that may become infected

00:17:20.340 and not even show symptoms

00:17:21.840 or show signs of it.

00:17:23.660 We've seen it

00:17:24.420 with the younger people,

00:17:25.380 with the children

00:17:26.180 that may be carriers

00:17:27.120 of the disease,

00:17:28.100 that they would test positive.

00:17:29.300 Then you worry about them

00:17:30.140 near grandmom or grandpop.

00:17:31.580 So they could have the virus

00:17:33.160 in the system

00:17:33.980 but not really be affected by it.

00:17:37.320 We're not exactly sure

00:17:38.220 why that is.

00:17:39.640 And when I talked about

00:17:40.420 the possibility

00:17:41.100 of a virus mutation and changes,

00:17:43.620 now they're seeing in Europe

00:17:45.520 sometimes 45 or 50 percent

00:17:47.820 of the people hospitalized

00:17:48.880 are under the age of 55.

00:17:50.440 I mean, we kind of thought of it

00:17:51.440 as an old person's disease.

00:17:53.260 And in terms of those dying,

00:17:54.720 it does seem to be

00:17:55.460 that older group.

00:17:56.700 But some of the people

00:17:57.800 on respirators are now

00:17:59.000 in a somewhat younger group as well.

00:18:01.220 Now, are they mostly people

00:18:02.760 who have asthma

00:18:04.180 or other significant

00:18:05.400 respiratory illnesses?

00:18:06.960 I think they're still trying

00:18:08.300 to figure that one out

00:18:10.440 because the medical systems

00:18:12.120 in Italy and France

00:18:13.160 are overwhelmed.

00:18:14.560 They're not that able

00:18:16.280 at this point

00:18:16.900 to kind of come back

00:18:17.820 with good research numbers

00:18:19.200 and tell us.

00:18:19.680 And their fatality rates

00:18:20.660 go up.

00:18:21.480 I mean, when the medical system

00:18:22.980 is overwhelmed,

00:18:23.920 you see 4, 5, 6 percent fatality

00:18:27.380 instead of 1 or 2 percent.

00:18:28.680 1 to 2 percent,

00:18:29.120 which is what they expected

00:18:30.020 it to be.

00:18:31.080 The flu,

00:18:31.940 which I think this year

00:18:32.600 in the United States

00:18:33.280 is going to kill

00:18:33.800 about 36,000 Americans,

00:18:36.160 that's one-tenth of 1 percent.

00:18:38.440 Dr. Fauci said,

00:18:39.620 you know,

00:18:39.760 if we get everything

00:18:40.400 and do it right here,

00:18:41.440 it would be 10 times that.

00:18:44.020 But you're right.

00:18:44.700 Across the world,

00:18:45.660 we're seeing numbers

00:18:46.340 much higher than that.

00:18:47.640 Well, Senator Brasso,

00:18:48.700 to your point,

00:18:49.820 there may be many people

00:18:51.020 who have the virus

00:18:52.760 or who are not showing symptoms

00:18:54.480 or certainly

00:18:55.140 who have not tested positive.

00:18:56.940 Is there any way

00:18:58.000 that testing will become

00:18:59.340 so widely available

00:19:00.600 that we'll be able to

00:19:01.660 figure out

00:19:02.560 what the denominator is?

00:19:03.880 Because obviously,

00:19:04.480 we're not going to get

00:19:05.080 a very good sense

00:19:06.260 of the fatality rate

00:19:07.380 if we don't know

00:19:08.060 how many people have it

00:19:09.060 in the first place.

00:19:10.080 Well, that's exactly right.

00:19:11.660 And Ted and I were at a lunch

00:19:12.820 with the president last week

00:19:14.140 and Tony Fauci and others.

00:19:16.080 And when they said,

00:19:17.300 well, we're going to have

00:19:17.840 more and more tests available,

00:19:19.060 I said, well,

00:19:19.380 then you're going to have

00:19:19.980 a lot more positive

00:19:20.900 just because they're

00:19:22.560 already positive.

00:19:23.460 They just don't know it.

00:19:24.960 And we're now at that phase

00:19:26.420 where I think we're over

00:19:26.960 17,000 positive tests

00:19:28.720 in the United States.

00:19:29.560 Over 200 have died.

00:19:31.180 But if you could get

00:19:31.900 to the point where

00:19:32.620 more and more people

00:19:34.000 are tested,

00:19:35.020 we may know that denominator

00:19:36.420 as well as a numerator.

00:19:37.740 And I think it would be

00:19:38.440 more helpful to see.

00:19:39.900 Well, I know that both of you

00:19:41.220 are going to be in town

00:19:42.060 to vote on this next part

00:19:43.820 of relief for coronavirus.

00:19:45.740 Already, we've seen

00:19:46.440 some announcements

00:19:46.960 from the White House today

00:19:47.920 closing the border with Mexico,

00:19:49.520 closing the border

00:19:50.200 with Canada,

00:19:51.620 putting off student loan

00:19:52.860 payments for 60 days.

00:19:54.640 I mean, there have been

00:19:55.040 a number of provisions

00:19:56.660 that have already come out.

00:19:57.960 What can we look forward to

00:19:59.440 as you guys are quarantined

00:20:00.960 in Washington

00:20:01.560 to see voted on

00:20:03.580 over the next few days?

00:20:04.760 And how will it help?

00:20:06.640 So I think we'll probably

00:20:07.660 vote on Monday.

00:20:09.340 Right now, where we are

00:20:10.860 is that Mitch McConnell

00:20:12.100 has filed a bill.

00:20:13.980 And right now,

00:20:15.140 there is active negotiation

00:20:16.760 with the Democrats.

00:20:19.560 I don't know what's going

00:20:20.620 to come out of that negotiation.

00:20:22.300 As I look at the bill,

00:20:24.080 I think it is important

00:20:25.060 that we see strong action

00:20:27.080 from Washington

00:20:28.820 to provide economic relief.

00:20:30.400 I'm very concerned

00:20:31.600 that we are going to see

00:20:33.500 in coming weeks

00:20:34.340 millions and millions

00:20:35.860 of job losses.

00:20:37.380 Yesterday, I predicted

00:20:38.320 over a million job losses.

00:20:40.780 The numbers I'm seeing now

00:20:42.240 are even two and three million

00:20:43.540 coming up in just a week or two.

00:20:45.300 I mean, it's it's there

00:20:47.140 are a lot of layoffs.

00:20:48.060 There are a lot of people hurting.

00:20:49.100 There are a lot of small businesses.

00:20:50.100 There are a lot of restaurants

00:20:51.760 and bars and hotels

00:20:53.240 that are that are just really hurting.

00:20:56.520 The bill right now

00:20:58.140 that that has been introduced

00:20:59.240 has really two important

00:21:01.240 components to it.

00:21:02.680 One is the individual relief,

00:21:04.620 and that's basically

00:21:05.540 sending a twelve hundred dollar

00:21:06.720 check to just about everybody,

00:21:09.500 just about everybody

00:21:10.340 who makes less

00:21:12.820 than ninety nine thousand dollars

00:21:14.100 a year.

00:21:15.640 That's individual relief

00:21:17.180 just to provide a check

00:21:18.340 and some help.

00:21:19.500 The second component

00:21:20.500 is focused on loans

00:21:22.860 for all of the small businesses,

00:21:24.880 for all of the big businesses

00:21:26.140 that are, you know,

00:21:27.060 the airlines are losing billions.

00:21:29.400 It's focused on loans

00:21:31.280 to help those businesses survive

00:21:33.060 so people have a job

00:21:33.900 to come back to.

00:21:34.560 So that, you know,

00:21:35.380 when you're if you're a waiter,

00:21:37.260 you work at a restaurant

00:21:38.180 and your restaurant

00:21:38.820 is shut down right now,

00:21:39.860 you sure do hope

00:21:41.120 that when you can go back

00:21:42.860 that that restaurant

00:21:43.780 hasn't gone out of business.

00:21:44.820 And so, you know,

00:21:46.980 my view, look,

00:21:48.060 I'm worried about

00:21:48.960 what the Democrats

00:21:49.720 are going to insist upon.

00:21:50.880 And it is possible

00:21:52.100 this bill gets to be

00:21:53.320 such a mess

00:21:54.060 that I vote no.

00:21:55.780 I mean, if they 0.99

00:21:56.940 put a bunch of garbage

00:21:58.560 in there, 0.99

00:21:59.300 that's possible.

00:22:00.800 I will say

00:22:01.960 I would characterize myself

00:22:03.700 as pleasantly surprised

00:22:05.320 as a conservative

00:22:06.080 about where the bill

00:22:07.880 is right now

00:22:08.740 in that it is not

00:22:10.560 it is not like

00:22:13.280 the Obama stimulus.

00:22:14.420 We talked last night

00:22:15.280 about how TARP,

00:22:16.760 for example,

00:22:17.260 was very different

00:22:18.160 because there

00:22:19.060 you had financial firms

00:22:20.780 whose own misconduct

00:22:22.000 had caused

00:22:22.660 much of the crisis.

00:22:23.740 Right.

00:22:24.340 This this is different.

00:22:25.360 This is more like

00:22:26.640 a natural disaster,

00:22:28.140 more like a hurricane

00:22:28.960 or a fire

00:22:29.640 where it's not the fault

00:22:31.240 of the restaurant

00:22:32.440 that shut down right now

00:22:34.040 that this is happening.

00:22:35.720 I'm glad that

00:22:36.760 it's structured as loans.

00:22:37.780 I think loans

00:22:38.560 are the right way

00:22:39.640 to do it,

00:22:40.280 but it is still

00:22:42.480 very fluid

00:22:43.160 and up in the air.

00:22:43.900 I mean, what do you think, John?

00:22:44.740 Yeah, I agree with you.

00:22:45.660 I voted against TARP

00:22:46.680 and I'm happy

00:22:47.940 with that vote.

00:22:49.060 The small business

00:22:49.920 component of this piece

00:22:51.380 I think is very important

00:22:52.460 because it's a loan,

00:22:53.920 but any money

00:22:54.720 that's used

00:22:55.240 to keep the payroll

00:22:56.440 going out

00:22:57.440 to the workers,

00:22:58.560 any money that's used

00:22:59.520 to just keep

00:23:00.200 the rent paid

00:23:01.020 and the electric bills paid

00:23:02.360 would be a forgiven loan.

00:23:04.220 Now, if they wanted

00:23:04.660 to use it for other things,

00:23:05.700 that's different.

00:23:06.260 So then they'd have to pay back

00:23:07.780 with interest,

00:23:08.880 but it would basically

00:23:10.520 be a forgiven loan

00:23:11.840 if it's used

00:23:13.260 just so that the doors

00:23:14.620 can open

00:23:15.420 three weeks from now

00:23:17.420 or whenever

00:23:17.940 those businesses

00:23:18.620 have come.

00:23:19.720 And that'll be done

00:23:20.680 through the Small Business

00:23:21.440 Administration.

00:23:22.180 70% of the jobs

00:23:23.400 in Wyoming,

00:23:25.140 I'm sorry,

00:23:25.480 70% of the jobs

00:23:26.220 nationally

00:23:26.700 are through small businesses,

00:23:29.120 less than 500 employees.

00:23:30.760 In Wyoming,

00:23:31.380 it's almost 95%

00:23:33.140 of the jobs

00:23:33.980 through small businesses.

00:23:35.060 So we want to make sure

00:23:36.560 that the small businesses

00:23:37.560 can reopen

00:23:38.520 once we get

00:23:39.620 the medical component

00:23:40.520 of this behind us.

00:23:41.880 You know, Michael,

00:23:42.780 one thing about John,

00:23:43.780 he was one of the

00:23:44.440 first senators

00:23:45.220 I got to know

00:23:46.080 and the reason is

00:23:48.720 that he and I

00:23:49.600 flew together

00:23:50.300 when I was just

00:23:51.200 brand new elected

00:23:52.400 in 2013.

00:23:53.060 We flew together

00:23:53.980 to Israel

00:23:54.620 and Afghanistan.

00:23:55.720 And one of the things

00:23:56.420 really amazing

00:23:57.180 about John

00:23:57.820 is he's got

00:23:59.100 a real heart

00:23:59.760 for our troops

00:24:01.120 and for our soldiers

00:24:02.720 and sailors

00:24:03.380 and airmen

00:24:03.860 and Marines.

00:24:04.940 And he travels

00:24:05.500 all over the world.

00:24:06.300 How many trips

00:24:07.080 have you taken abroad

00:24:08.080 to visit our troops?

00:24:09.160 Well, I go

00:24:09.520 every Thanksgiving,

00:24:10.520 no matter when,

00:24:11.940 where our Wyoming

00:24:12.780 National Guard are,

00:24:13.540 I go every Thanksgiving.

00:24:14.660 And this past Thanksgiving,

00:24:17.000 I talked to President Trump

00:24:17.960 and said,

00:24:18.300 you haven't been

00:24:18.600 to Afghanistan?

00:24:19.740 Love for you to go.

00:24:20.720 Our Wyoming National Guard

00:24:21.840 is there.

00:24:22.940 And he went,

00:24:23.400 we went in Air Force One.

00:24:24.600 He surprised the world,

00:24:25.660 certainly surprised the press

00:24:26.960 and surprised the troops.

00:24:29.300 And it was really

00:24:30.380 a wonderful reception

00:24:32.180 by the president,

00:24:33.900 by the troops

00:24:34.420 on the ground

00:24:34.920 in Afghanistan.

00:24:36.280 But every Thanksgiving,

00:24:37.740 wherever they are,

00:24:38.660 I'm with our

00:24:39.380 Wyoming National Guard.

00:24:40.960 Wow, that's tremendous.

00:24:42.360 And it certainly

00:24:42.940 did surprise the press.

00:24:44.020 I think they all thought

00:24:44.700 he was playing golf

00:24:45.500 and it was quite

00:24:46.720 a nice reveal.

00:24:47.560 They did.

00:24:47.580 Well, yeah,

00:24:48.780 I forget there was

00:24:49.760 one reporter

00:24:50.200 who had to do

00:24:50.500 a big correction.

00:24:51.560 I forget which network

00:24:52.960 had blasted him

00:24:53.920 for playing golf.

00:24:54.800 And I think he was

00:24:55.220 literally in the air

00:24:56.080 at the time.

00:24:56.600 He was.

00:24:58.200 Well, he was delighted

00:24:59.380 that the surprise worked.

00:25:00.820 He wanted to be,

00:25:01.660 he wanted,

00:25:02.800 it worked.

00:25:03.820 There was a lot

00:25:05.060 of backstories,

00:25:06.100 but the president

00:25:06.500 Well, and you know,

00:25:07.060 you have to do it

00:25:07.920 that way.

00:25:08.420 Oh, yeah.

00:25:08.640 When we went,

00:25:09.720 I think it was

00:25:10.560 four or five of us

00:25:12.120 that went

00:25:12.580 and on that trip

00:25:13.200 in Afghanistan.

00:25:14.580 I mean,

00:25:14.840 I still remember,

00:25:15.800 look,

00:25:15.960 I'd been sworn

00:25:17.100 into the Senate

00:25:17.740 three days earlier,

00:25:19.240 so I'm sort of

00:25:20.060 brand new

00:25:20.540 to all of this.

00:25:21.560 And I still remember

00:25:22.600 they're putting,

00:25:23.100 you know,

00:25:23.380 flak jackets on us

00:25:24.600 and we're in

00:25:25.220 helicopters flying

00:25:26.380 over active war zones

00:25:27.780 and getting instruction

00:25:29.120 about,

00:25:29.580 all right,

00:25:30.220 if they open fire

00:25:31.220 on the chopper,

00:25:32.240 here's what you got to do.

00:25:33.520 And look,

00:25:34.480 obviously when the president

00:25:35.520 is coming in,

00:25:36.260 you see Air Force One

00:25:37.100 coming in,

00:25:37.600 that has to be done

00:25:38.660 at a high level

00:25:39.880 of secrecy

00:25:40.500 because there are a lot

00:25:41.080 of bad guys

00:25:41.700 who would love

00:25:42.600 to take a shot

00:25:43.660 at the plane 0.99

00:25:44.440 of the president.

00:25:45.080 And at night

00:25:45.640 and the windows closed

00:25:46.900 and lights off

00:25:48.460 and only lights

00:25:49.660 were on,

00:25:50.100 were on the runway

00:25:50.700 so they could see

00:25:51.380 and land.

00:25:51.800 It was very impressively done.

00:25:53.920 And then they

00:25:54.320 kind of a lockdown

00:25:55.300 on communications

00:25:56.320 on the ground

00:25:57.080 until we were on the plane

00:25:58.060 getting ready to go

00:25:58.920 and then they lifted

00:26:00.120 the restrictions

00:26:01.520 so that everyone

00:26:02.700 could send their pictures back.

00:26:03.640 Are you saying,

00:26:04.660 John,

00:26:04.840 that someone actually

00:26:06.060 managed to stop

00:26:07.040 the president

00:26:07.460 from tweeting?

00:26:08.960 Well,

00:26:09.220 that was part of that.

00:26:10.000 That's impossible.

00:26:10.440 I don't believe that.

00:26:11.040 Well,

00:26:11.220 someone was

00:26:14.920 taking the role

00:26:16.040 of the president

00:26:16.680 as tweeter

00:26:17.440 and continued

00:26:18.340 to tweet

00:26:19.200 during the trip

00:26:20.620 so that the press

00:26:21.980 wouldn't be suspicious

00:26:23.080 or the public

00:26:23.820 wouldn't be suspicious.

00:26:25.240 That's cool.

00:26:25.800 So,

00:26:26.140 yes,

00:26:26.780 his own phone

00:26:27.440 was taken away

00:26:30.060 from him

00:26:30.600 for that part

00:26:31.920 of the trip.

00:26:32.700 It was terrific.

00:26:34.640 And the best part

00:26:35.500 for me,

00:26:35.840 coming back,

00:26:36.940 my daughter

00:26:37.620 who had gone

00:26:38.060 deer hunting

00:26:38.680 that day

00:26:39.340 at Thanksgiving

00:26:40.540 in Wyoming

00:26:41.440 shot this beautiful buck

00:26:43.400 and she had texted me.

00:26:45.580 I showed the picture

00:26:46.340 to the president

00:26:47.060 and we called her

00:26:49.480 on the phone

00:26:50.140 and she said,

00:26:51.580 yes,

00:26:51.800 Mr. President.

00:26:52.300 Oh,

00:26:52.520 it was the call

00:26:53.640 of her lifetime

00:26:54.340 to talk to the president

00:26:55.320 as he's looking

00:26:55.960 at this picture

00:26:56.540 of my daughter Hadley

00:26:57.980 with the gun,

00:26:59.180 with the buck,

00:26:59.920 with the great,

00:27:00.880 with an incredible

00:27:01.800 rack on the buck.

00:27:02.980 It was something.

00:27:03.520 That sounds much

00:27:04.860 more exciting

00:27:05.400 than my Thanksgiving.

00:27:06.680 You know,

00:27:07.020 we have just

00:27:08.060 about a moment

00:27:09.160 left here

00:27:09.780 or a minute

00:27:10.220 left rather.

00:27:11.220 I do want to get

00:27:11.860 to one mailbag

00:27:12.740 question.

00:27:13.600 This is from Roger.

00:27:14.780 Roger asks,

00:27:15.860 why was the CDC

00:27:16.860 and the government

00:27:17.800 so ill prepared

00:27:19.500 for this situation?

00:27:21.460 I know the system

00:27:22.040 was obsolete,

00:27:22.820 but what could have

00:27:23.520 been done

00:27:23.980 in years prior

00:27:24.720 to be better prepared?

00:27:27.000 Well,

00:27:27.220 look,

00:27:27.440 I think there are

00:27:28.120 a couple of things.

00:27:29.760 Government bureaucracies

00:27:31.040 are almost always

00:27:32.740 inherently slow

00:27:34.360 and they've got

00:27:34.900 a bunch of

00:27:35.680 regulatory barriers.

00:27:37.340 So when it came

00:27:37.840 to the CDC,

00:27:38.660 you look at

00:27:39.100 the rollout of the tests.

00:27:40.440 The rollout of the tests,

00:27:41.500 as everyone knows,

00:27:42.680 did not go very well.

00:27:44.000 And a big part

00:27:45.660 of the reason why

00:27:46.420 is the CDC

00:27:46.920 tried to do it

00:27:47.660 all itself.

00:27:48.300 They tried to do it

00:27:49.200 within the federal government

00:27:50.760 and they had a problem

00:27:52.080 with contamination

00:27:52.840 in the lab

00:27:53.620 so the first test

00:27:54.760 that came out

00:27:55.340 didn't work.

00:27:56.540 What we've done

00:27:57.300 since then,

00:27:58.060 and it's been

00:27:58.420 a big shift,

00:27:59.460 is that we've empowered

00:28:00.540 the private sector.

00:28:01.480 We've empowered

00:28:02.080 labs like

00:28:03.480 the Mayo Clinic

00:28:04.980 and the Cleveland Clinic

00:28:05.900 to develop tests.

00:28:07.720 And I think

00:28:07.960 they're good lessons learned,

00:28:10.240 but look,

00:28:11.100 that's not the first time

00:28:12.400 a government bureaucracy

00:28:13.420 acted like

00:28:14.160 a government bureaucracy.

00:28:15.200 It's not the last time

00:28:16.040 that's going to happen.

00:28:17.460 But the more,

00:28:18.440 and by the way,

00:28:19.340 also on the FDA side,

00:28:21.660 removing the barriers,

00:28:23.960 we need to develop

00:28:24.700 a vaccine.

00:28:25.500 We need to develop

00:28:26.080 treatments for coronavirus.

00:28:27.400 We need to develop

00:28:27.940 a cure.

00:28:29.100 And there are

00:28:30.140 a lot of wonderful

00:28:31.260 professionals at CDC,

00:28:32.600 FDA,

00:28:33.020 and they're doing

00:28:33.480 heroic work right now.

00:28:35.460 But the FDA,

00:28:36.580 they like their rules

00:28:37.700 and they're hesitant,

00:28:38.740 they're resistant to change.

00:28:40.460 And we don't need

00:28:41.860 a vaccine two years from now.

00:28:43.720 We need a vaccine

00:28:44.640 fast,

00:28:46.160 implemented,

00:28:47.340 because we need

00:28:48.020 to get out of this

00:28:48.900 economic slowdown

00:28:50.920 and get the economy

00:28:51.740 back booming.

00:28:52.420 We need to save

00:28:52.860 people's lives.

00:28:53.580 I mean,

00:28:53.700 what do you think,

00:28:54.180 John?

00:28:54.500 I agree completely.

00:28:55.480 I think the CDC

00:28:56.420 had this kind of

00:28:57.320 command and control,

00:28:58.580 centralization of everything,

00:29:00.040 including the tests.

00:29:01.640 And I think it didn't do

00:29:03.640 as well as I would have liked

00:29:04.720 and I think the private sector

00:29:05.760 is responding in a way

00:29:06.800 that we know the private sector

00:29:07.980 always responds.

00:29:09.420 And that's why

00:29:09.860 we have made the advances

00:29:10.840 in the availability of tests

00:29:12.300 that we were behind

00:29:14.340 at the beginning.

00:29:15.480 Well,

00:29:15.880 that is a hopeful note

00:29:16.820 to end on.

00:29:17.520 We will have to leave it there.

00:29:18.440 I know that both of you

00:29:19.620 will have to go back

00:29:20.660 because soon

00:29:21.320 there will be a vote

00:29:22.380 on the next stage

00:29:23.480 of relief from coronavirus.

00:29:25.400 Senator Barrasso,

00:29:26.060 thank you so much

00:29:26.920 for joining us.

00:29:28.340 And Senator Cruz,

00:29:29.020 of course,

00:29:29.900 thank you as always

00:29:31.180 for shedding some light

00:29:32.140 on what's going on

00:29:33.740 because there is a real problem

00:29:35.640 in the flow of information here.

00:29:36.860 So it's really nice

00:29:37.540 to be able to see

00:29:38.360 what the government is doing.

00:29:40.020 We will be back

00:29:40.660 with a whole lot more,

00:29:41.480 but we can't do that today.

00:29:42.600 So in the meantime,

00:29:43.540 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:29:44.420 This is Verdict

00:29:45.160 with Ted Cruz.

00:29:46.040 This episode of Verdict

00:29:54.780 with Ted Cruz

00:29:55.620 is being brought to you

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Verdict with Ted Cruz - March 22, 2020

An Expert’s Perspective On The Pandemic

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