Verdict with Ted Cruz - Ask Us Anything

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.400 The senator has been back in D.C. all week.

00:00:07.680 There is some bombshell news that's just come out about Mike Flynn and the Russia investigation.

00:00:12.760 But best of all, we are going to be taking your questions live on this special Ask Us Anything episode of Verdict.

00:00:20.340 So send your questions in now.

00:00:21.520 We're going to be taking them from Twitter using the hashtag Verdict.

00:00:25.320 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:00:30.000 Welcome back to Verdict.

00:00:34.660 How many times can I say Verdict in one minute?

00:00:36.400 I guess we'll find out.

00:00:37.360 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:00:38.200 I'm joined as ever by the senator.

00:00:40.200 Senator, before we begin, I've got to tell you, your hair today looks excellent.

00:00:46.380 Have you done something new with it?

00:00:49.020 Well, as it so happens, I got a haircut this morning.

00:00:51.940 I got on a plane first thing this morning and flew to Dallas and went to Shelley Luther,

00:00:58.200 who, as you know, she has a hair salon, and she was sentenced insanely to seven days in jail 0.99

00:01:06.940 for daring to open a hair salon during the coronavirus crisis.

00:01:11.740 And she spent two nights in jail.

00:01:14.360 And then yesterday, thankfully, the Texas Supreme Court unanimously ruled that she be released.

00:01:20.060 And so I got on a plane and flew up there today to get a haircut.

00:01:23.660 Well, she obviously did a very good job. 0.88

00:01:25.500 The hair looks good.

00:01:26.320 And more importantly, I think it's good to send that message out.

00:01:30.420 There have been a lot of oversteps during this whole lockdown, pastors getting arrested and things like that.

00:01:35.860 But I think Shelley Luther, she might take the cake, you know.

00:01:38.880 She just dares to try to put some food on the table for her kids. 1.00

00:01:42.740 And some judge in Dallas decides she's got to go to the slammer for seven days. 1.00

00:01:48.840 Well, you know, it really was outrageous.

00:01:51.220 And if you haven't seen it, I'd encourage folks, watch the video of her sentencing.

00:01:55.920 I watched that when it came down.

00:01:58.440 And the judge, who is an elected Democrat in Dallas, he demands of her, he says,

00:02:04.500 apologize to the elected officials who issued these edicts.

00:02:08.940 And if you apologize to them, I won't send you to jail.

00:02:12.500 And to her credit, she says, I can't apologize.

00:02:15.600 I can't apologize for wanting people, wanting the people who work for me to be able to feed their kids.

00:02:20.940 I can't apologize for that.

00:02:22.820 And, you know, it was impressive.

00:02:25.000 She was not angry.

00:02:27.320 She wasn't disrespectful.

00:02:28.680 She was just very matter of fact saying, look, these folks, they need to feed their kids. 1.00

00:02:33.780 They're hurting. 0.99

00:02:35.340 And I got to say, it is ridiculous.

00:02:39.820 Elected officials don't have the right to demand of the people apologize to me. 0.73

00:02:45.060 That's not the way it works.

00:02:46.260 In the United States, we work for the people, not the other way around. 0.92

00:02:50.260 And the arrogance of our benevolent overlords demanding an apology from the citizenry, it was ridiculous.

00:02:59.040 I tweeted that out a couple of days ago, how absurd it was.

00:03:02.740 And I was really glad to get a chance to meet her in person.

00:03:06.340 I'd never met her.

00:03:08.520 And now my dad and my cousin, they had spoken to her boyfriend on the phone when she was in jail.

00:03:14.080 They had actually prayed with him on the phone.

00:03:17.340 And my cousin talked with Shelly just right when she got out of jail.

00:03:21.520 But I wanted to be there just to say, look, we stand with you.

00:03:25.840 And it is wrong.

00:03:29.340 Particularly, you know what?

00:03:30.480 You've got local officials that are releasing violent criminals from jail because they say coronavirus, we don't want it to spread.

00:03:37.260 So they're releasing murderers.

00:03:39.040 They're releasing rapists and child molesters.

00:03:41.480 But God forbid you have a hairdresser. 0.99

00:03:44.120 Well, we need to lock her up because she's not properly kissing the asses of the politicians that are issuing decrees. 1.00

00:03:51.860 I was a little pissed off, you can tell. 0.99

00:03:55.480 Fair enough.

00:03:56.220 I think you should be.

00:03:56.980 I think it sends a great statement.

00:03:58.380 If we had a whole country full of Shelly Luthers, I think probably the culture would be a whole lot healthier.

00:04:02.880 Speaking of unfair sentencing, there's another.

00:04:06.080 And actually, hold on.

00:04:07.360 Before we shift to that, I want to make one other point that I made.

00:04:11.080 We did a press conference afterwards.

00:04:13.560 And it's a point I made, but I haven't seen in any of the coverage.

00:04:16.680 And it doesn't strike me as entirely accidental, which is, listen, I hadn't had a haircut.

00:04:23.960 As you know, we've been doing this.

00:04:24.860 I hadn't had a haircut in three months.

00:04:25.920 Yeah, I was getting to be that mullet kind of Tiger King. 0.94

00:04:30.900 Heidi said I was bringing mullets back.

00:04:34.100 And, you know, look, I was going more for a Bee Gees thing.

00:04:37.080 But Joe Dirt is an underappreciated look.

00:04:39.500 So I'll go either way on that.

00:04:42.160 But, you know, it was interesting this week.

00:04:45.100 We were back in D.C. in the Senate.

00:04:48.440 And I couldn't help but look around at my colleagues.

00:04:52.080 And it sure looked like most of them had gotten a haircut.

00:04:57.900 And it's just kind of interesting.

00:05:00.640 For those who are defending people's freedom, fine.

00:05:04.380 But we're seeing some politicians posture how terrible it is.

00:05:09.540 And it was a good thing that she should be locked up.

00:05:13.020 Well, it's just an interesting question.

00:05:15.960 Who's gotten a haircut and how?

00:05:19.180 Right.

00:05:19.880 Haircuts for me but not for thee is the prevailing wisdom, I think.

00:05:24.000 Well, what was it Bill de Blasio said when he went to the gym after shutting down the gyms?

00:05:27.860 Well, I've got to stay healthy.

00:05:29.140 Like, oh, okay.

00:05:31.980 Not the people.

00:05:33.640 And look, it's also easy to mischaracterize this.

00:05:37.860 Nobody is saying that everyone should just behave business as usual and ignore the epidemic.

00:05:46.020 Ignore the crisis.

00:05:47.680 You know, Shelley at her hair salon, when I got my hair cut, I was wearing a mask.

00:05:51.480 I was wearing gloves.

00:05:52.500 She was wearing a mask.

00:05:54.100 All of the stylists that worked for her were wearing masks.

00:05:56.720 They used disinfectant.

00:05:57.980 They wiped down the seat before I sat down.

00:06:00.800 The stylist used disinfectant on her hand. 0.59

00:06:03.560 They're trying to be safe.

00:06:04.600 They're trying to use common sense measures to mitigate the spread of the virus.

00:06:09.780 But they're also trying to let these stylists be able to feed their kids. 1.00

00:06:14.980 Right, right.

00:06:15.520 Yeah.

00:06:15.820 You know, being able to feed your family is important to public health as well.

00:06:20.200 And, you know, you had the Shelley Luther case.

00:06:22.540 That was obviously this gross miscarriage of justice.

00:06:25.400 And then luckily it got overturned.

00:06:27.000 Yet another one on the national level, which just came out yesterday.

00:06:30.080 This was the case of Michael Flynn.

00:06:32.220 He was selected by President Trump to become the national security advisor.

00:06:35.920 He was then, we were told, a traitor to his country.

00:06:39.320 He colluded with Russia. 0.58

00:06:40.800 He was going to go to jail, people told us.

00:06:42.780 And then the DOJ dropped the case yesterday.

00:06:46.360 And Michael Flynn, from what we can tell, totally exonerated.

00:06:50.040 I obviously don't have a law degree.

00:06:52.220 What was going on here?

00:06:53.700 What does this mean for the DOJ, for the Obama administration, for politics?

00:06:58.820 Look, there are a couple of things at play here.

00:07:00.960 One, Michael Flynn is a decorated general.

00:07:03.260 And he was a leader until he was fired by the Obama administration because he had the courage to resist some of their willingness to just whitewash and cover up radical Islamic terrorists and be apologists for Islamism.

00:07:23.400 He lost his job for that.

00:07:25.140 But it's interesting that, you know, there's been a lot said about the deep state.

00:07:29.740 The deep state despises him for that.

00:07:33.420 And what has come out recently about the prosecution has really been disgraceful.

00:07:39.960 How the Department of Justice, the FBI, I mean, they were politicized at a level under Barack Obama that's never happened before.

00:07:47.340 They were turned into political weapons.

00:07:50.200 And I got to say, the notes that have been released of the senior folks going after Flynn where they say the objective was to get him to lie so that we can either convict him for lying or get him fired.

00:08:06.920 Right. Get him fired. 1.00

00:08:09.040 I mean, it was—I got to say, I commend Bill Barr.

00:08:13.680 What Bill Barr has done, frankly, takes backbone because the media is savaging him because he came in as attorney general and said he was going to follow the law and there was going to be accountability.

00:08:26.780 And he directed a U.S. attorney to review this case.

00:08:30.040 And all of these records that had been hidden were suddenly made public.

00:08:34.720 And Barr made the determination, DOJ made the determination that there was not sufficient evidence.

00:08:40.200 What this was was a fishing expedition where they wanted to get rid of Flynn.

00:08:46.980 And, you know, they were getting ready to close the case until Peter Strzok, this hard partisan dem who has all of these, you know, nasty partisan text back and forth with the woman with whom he was having an affair.

00:09:02.780 Peter Strzok said, keep the case open.

00:09:04.980 And what's interesting about it, when they went to interview Michael Flynn, you know, Comey's been bragging about how he convinced them, oh, no, no, you don't need a lawyer.

00:09:14.580 You don't need a lawyer.

00:09:15.360 You don't need to tell the White House counsel, no, no, no, we're just chatting, no big deal.

00:09:18.760 Friendly talk.

00:09:19.700 You know, just hanging out.

00:09:22.920 And it was an old-fashioned game of entrapment.

00:09:25.860 Yeah.

00:09:26.000 And by the way, the alleged predicate for this is the Logan Act.

00:09:31.860 Now, look, most people don't know what the Logan Act is. 0.98

00:09:35.220 I'll tell you, the Logan Act is utter and complete garbage. 0.63

00:09:38.460 It is a bill that is ostensibly in the U.S. code that makes it a crime for a private citizen to interact and conduct foreign policy with foreign leaders. 0.95

00:09:49.500 Here's the problem.

00:09:52.280 In two centuries, it has been enforced zero times.

00:09:57.780 And there's a reason for it.

00:09:59.240 There's no constitutional basis for it.

00:10:02.780 And it is something that is routinely—I guarantee you today, Michael, I guarantee you, John Kerry violated the Logan Act.

00:10:11.400 Certainly he did.

00:10:12.220 If the Logan Act is a crime, because John Kerry runs around bragging about how he's telling the Iranians, don't worry, we'll come back to the deal, ignore President Trump's foreign policy.

00:10:26.320 You have Democrats all the time who run around and engage in foreign policy and folks out of office.

00:10:32.340 And let's be clear.

00:10:33.440 So the alleged violation for Flynn—it's important to understand this—he's a retired general.

00:10:41.000 He's just been named the incoming national security advisor for the new president.

00:10:46.260 This is after the presidential election.

00:10:48.080 So the incoming national security advisor is putting his team together to come in and lead the president's national security team.

00:10:55.740 And what they were allegedly investigating him is that he talked to the Russian ambassador.

00:11:00.660 I guarantee you, every single national security advisor, going back to the staff of George Washington, was talking to our allies and our enemies.

00:11:12.620 That's actually what you want leaders in government to do.

00:11:17.120 And so it was an asinine fishing expedition based on a laughable claim, and it was all—the entire game was, well, let's get him on tape, and then let's interview him and see if he says something that contradicts what he says on tape.

00:11:36.220 And I got to say, look, prosecutors have played that game all the time.

00:11:40.360 There's a reason entrapment is not allowed, because you're just trying to—you're trying to set up what's called a perjury trap.

00:11:46.500 And it was obvious that these partisans who were at the helm of DOJ and FBI, that was the game they were playing, and it wasn't law enforcement.

00:12:00.220 And I think Bill Barr showed a lot of courage for saying, we're going to follow the law and not let this be just a partisan hammer.

00:12:09.960 Right. The way you can tell in the notes that were released from the FBI, the way you can tell that this wasn't even just a regular, you know, investigation or entrapment, is that phrase, or get him fired.

00:12:23.300 It wasn't just, we're going to see if we catch him in a lie, or we'll get him to admit.

00:12:26.300 It was that, or get him fired.

00:12:27.620 They had a political interest in getting this appointee removed.

00:12:31.860 So it's great that this is coming to light.

00:12:33.920 I know that—

00:12:34.340 And there's an old grudge.

00:12:35.500 I mean, remember, he had been fired from the Obama administration.

00:12:38.220 They didn't like that he was outing what the administration was doing, and they were mad at him, and that was evidenced by the partisan attack.

00:12:48.660 That's right.

00:12:49.280 So we've got—

00:12:50.140 And of course, the irony of all of this is that the media and the Democrats are savaging Barr for being partisan.

00:13:00.340 I mean, it is the biggest case of projection.

00:13:02.800 Because he says the Department of Justice is not going to be a partisan cudgel, they accuse him of being partisan, and it's a game, and I think a lot of people are sick of that game.

00:13:14.340 Absolutely.

00:13:15.020 So we've got about a million questions here from the viewers.

00:13:18.320 Obviously, this is live, so send your questions in now on Twitter with the hashtag verdict.

00:13:23.540 First one is from Rhino Dino.

00:13:25.580 I don't think that's his name at birth.

00:13:27.660 I think that's the Twitter name.

00:13:29.040 When does an executive's emergency power—

00:13:31.400 Yeah, there's some colleagues of mine that go by that.

00:13:33.380 From Rhino Dino.

00:13:35.400 That is true.

00:13:37.020 It's a little long in the tooth in that institution.

00:13:39.600 When does an executive's emergency power overstep the Constitution?

00:13:43.360 Are there any rights that are absolute regardless of circumstance?

00:13:47.240 Should there be a way for the legislature of the state or federal government to end a state of emergency or a lockdown, I suppose?

00:13:55.240 So, look, that's a complicated question, and even the question in executive, there's a difference between the president, a governor, a mayor.

00:14:06.000 Yeah.

00:14:06.160 In times of emergency, the constitutional law has always given some degree of discretion and some degree of deference to emergency powers that are short-term, that are temporary, that are designed to address the emergency.

00:14:24.920 Now, you can go too far.

00:14:26.040 So, for example, there's the famous steel seizure cases where the federal government tried to seize steel mills, and the Supreme Court said, no, you can't do that.

00:14:35.480 That's going too far.

00:14:36.500 You know, when it comes to pandemics, there is the authority to quarantine people, and that's actually got a long history and pedigree.

00:14:47.160 Now, you think about it.

00:14:47.980 In an ordinary case, the government can't come along and say, Michael, we're going to lock you in one place and not let you go for something that you didn't do.

00:14:55.460 Like, normally, to be locked up, you've got to do something.

00:14:58.160 You've got to break the law to be locked up.

00:15:00.340 Now, quarantines are an accepted exception to that if you have a contagious disease and are a threat to others.

00:15:09.380 But you know what?

00:15:10.400 We're seeing where it crosses the line.

00:15:12.520 We're seeing it every day in the course of this crisis.

00:15:15.120 We're seeing it with Shelly Luther locking someone up, seven days in jail for cutting hair. 0.97

00:15:20.240 That's ridiculous.

00:15:20.960 We're seeing it in Colorado with the dad who was playing softball with his six-year-old daughter in a public park, and they threatened to give him a ticket there. 0.96

00:15:31.700 Pennsylvania, where they gave a woman a ticket for driving a car.

00:15:36.480 She didn't violate any laws, by the way.

00:15:37.800 She was driving a car alone.

00:15:39.380 She posed no public health threat to anyone, and yet she got a ticket.

00:15:42.420 We saw the governor of New Jersey, a Democrat, who said, well, figuring out the Constitution, that's above my pay grade.

00:15:52.460 Well, no, actually, as governor of New Jersey, the oath you take is an oath to uphold the Constitution.

00:15:57.820 It's not above your pay grade.

00:15:59.760 So there are exceptions.

00:16:02.700 For example, in times of war, a president can suspend habeas corpus, but in limited circumstances.

00:16:09.520 And what the Supreme Court has said is that the power of the government is at its height when the executive and the legislature are joined together because they're a check on each other.

00:16:22.420 Right.

00:16:22.780 And so that doesn't mean it's unlimited, but it is at its highest point when they are working together and you have multiple branches of government together.

00:16:31.700 They are at the lowest point at the federal level when the executive is on one side and the legislature is on the other because those two are in conflict.

00:16:39.520 And what's interesting, look, this crisis reveals character, and there are just a lot of petty authoritarians running around.

00:16:50.660 Many of them are Democrats, but not all.

00:16:54.700 And they just like power.

00:16:59.400 You know, California, I sent out a video of that.

00:17:02.080 You know, they pulled out bulldozers and filled a skate park with sand to stop teenagers from skating.

00:17:09.620 And I took the chance to tweet out and said, OK, skaters, this is what big government lefties want to do.

00:17:15.120 They want to take away your freedom. 1.00

00:17:16.840 I mean, this is stupid. 0.99

00:17:18.000 And by the way, it would have been perfectly fine for them to insist on social distancing, say, listen, we're in the middle of a public health crisis. 1.00

00:17:26.180 You need to spread out a little bit.

00:17:28.160 But the idea that you can't go outside, that you can't go to the beach, that you can't paddleboard, that you can't go jogging, all of that is an overreach.

00:17:36.840 It's an overreach, and it's an overreach because people are – statists are going to statists.

00:17:42.740 That's what they do.

00:17:44.000 Right.

00:17:44.200 And it's not right.

00:17:45.240 And there's – I guess the question a lot of people are asking is, is there some hard and fast rule?

00:17:49.860 So, you know, the government is allowed to fill the skate park with sand, but it's not allowed to stop the paddleboard.

00:17:55.240 I mean, obviously, there's no way you could control for all of these details.

00:17:59.220 So, how do we know when the government's gone too far?

00:18:03.600 Listen, there is no magic rule on it.

00:18:06.660 You've got the Bill of Rights.

00:18:07.960 And so, for example – all right, let's take religious liberty.

00:18:11.820 Yeah.

00:18:12.120 Religious liberty is a hard question in this circumstance because, for example, churches.

00:18:19.740 Heidi and I go to First Baptist Church in Houston.

00:18:22.580 It's a big church.

00:18:23.920 My pastor is a good friend.

00:18:26.340 Our church hasn't met in person for two months.

00:18:28.400 Yeah.

00:18:29.080 It's really strange.

00:18:30.180 I mean, we do – our family, we do church on Sunday mornings where we – I log on to my phone and put it on the TV and we watch it in our living room.

00:18:38.740 Yeah.

00:18:39.520 Now, the church is planning to start meeting at the end of the month.

00:18:42.400 And I've talked with our pastor about it.

00:18:44.640 He doesn't want to spread the disease.

00:18:46.600 He doesn't want to contribute to people getting sick or losing their lives.

00:18:50.500 That's – I think that's a reasonable common sense judgment for pastors to make.

00:18:55.740 Like, we've seen Bill de Blasio, where he threatened, if a church or synagogue dares meet, I will shut you down permanently.

00:19:07.880 Yeah.

00:19:08.020 Who the hell are you to shut a church or synagogue down permanently?

00:19:13.040 And by the way, de Blasio also, you know, he showed up at the funeral of a revered rabbi to personally disperse the crowd

00:19:21.540 and then sent out this tweet threatening the Jewish community.

00:19:26.280 You know, why exactly is he singling out the Jewish community again?

00:19:29.460 I mean, that – you start to reveal the willingness to persecute people because of faith. 0.77

00:19:36.380 Yes, you can work to protect public safety.

00:19:41.640 But when you start singling out faith and religious exercise or speech and punishing what you don't like, that's when you clearly cross the line.

00:19:51.540 Right.

00:19:51.880 Now, speaking of some maybe clearer steps we could be taking, this comes in from Aunt Betty.

00:19:56.200 What actions are being taken right now to remove Chinese Communist Party-sponsored programs in higher education and public schools, Confucius schools and Jiangsu?

00:20:07.160 I don't even know what those are.

00:20:08.640 I do know that the Chinese government has infiltrated some educational institutions.

00:20:12.880 Are there steps to remove them?

00:20:15.700 So there are.

00:20:16.640 So Confucius institutes have been established at universities all over the country, and they're typically funded by the Chinese government.

00:20:23.260 And they serve as propaganda arms.

00:20:25.800 They serve as efforts.

00:20:27.960 They offer universities help on Chinese language instruction.

00:20:33.600 Yeah.

00:20:33.940 And China's approach is they use their vast economic resources, a little bit like a drug dealer going to a junior high, where they say, you know, hey, kid, let me give you a free sample. 0.70

00:20:46.640 Yeah.

00:20:46.780 So Chinese communists go to universities and say the same thing.

00:20:51.280 Hey, we'll give you really cheap or even free Chinese language instruction.

00:20:55.120 Isn't this great?

00:20:55.860 And all you have to do is let us conduct espionage on your campus and let us push propaganda.

00:21:02.160 So Tiananmen Square?

00:21:03.160 Nope, never heard of it.

00:21:03.920 There is no Tiananmen Square.

00:21:06.000 So the question is, is there anything we can do?

00:21:08.380 Yes.

00:21:08.760 So several years ago, I introduced and passed legislation on the Senate Armed Services Committee, got bipartisan support and got it written into law, a restriction and a prohibition on Department of Defense funding if a university has a Confucius Institute on campus.

00:21:28.520 And it was like, look, we're not going to send you DOD money if you've got an outlet for the Chinese government right there. 0.88

00:21:35.520 And that legislation that I authored and passed into law has resulted in over a dozen of those Confucius Institutes shutting down.

00:21:42.880 Wow.

00:21:43.640 Right.

00:21:44.040 I'll give you another example.

00:21:45.360 It's actually legislation I just introduced this week.

00:21:48.640 Phoenix TV.

00:21:50.080 It is a TV station owned by the Chinese government.

00:21:54.480 Do you remember the exchange?

00:21:55.480 It was a couple of weeks ago at a White House press conference.

00:21:57.720 There was that reporter. 0.99

00:21:58.420 Where this reporter.

00:22:00.700 And she was questioning the president.

00:22:03.000 And I got to give President Trump credit here.

00:22:05.660 He said, you know, who do you work for?

00:22:07.200 China? 0.73

00:22:08.280 She goes, no, no, no, Hong Kong.

00:22:09.820 And I don't know if he had been briefed beforehand or if he just had good instincts on the moment.

00:22:15.800 But it turns out, yes, in their name, it's Hong Kong, but it's controlled by the Chinese government.

00:22:21.200 And it is a propaganda outlet.

00:22:24.700 And in the U.S., so that same company, Phoenix TV, purchased a radio station in Mexico, which has a huge transmitter pointed north, pointed at the United States.

00:22:39.300 And they changed it from a Spanish language station to a Chinese language station.

00:22:45.440 And they put in an application at the FCC to broadcast into the U.S.

00:22:50.420 Now, two years ago in 2018, I sent a letter to the FCC saying, don't let a propaganda station owned by the Chinese government broadcast propaganda into the U.S. 0.62

00:23:01.660 And the FCC denied them their license.

00:23:04.200 Now, unfortunately, the way it works under the FCC is they, even though they'd been denied, they appealed and they got a provisional license while the appeal's pending.

00:23:14.100 So right now, you're in California.

00:23:16.780 This TV station is broadcasting, saturating Southern California.

00:23:21.560 And at times, it makes it all the way up to Northern California.

00:23:23.980 Chinese language propaganda through the radio waves.

00:23:32.660 And so I introduced legislation to eliminate the provisional appeal and say, look, if it's controlled by a foreign government broadcasting in a foreign language, we're not going to be simple patsies and let them pump propaganda into our country. 0.51

00:23:47.360 And so that's legislation I just filed this week.

00:23:49.540 Right. That's that's actually some concrete work that's being done.

00:23:53.900 You know, sometimes everything's been so vague in this lockdown.

00:23:56.660 Those are real steps that are being taken.

00:23:58.660 And hopefully there's more on the horizon.

00:24:00.120 This question from Magoo asks about another concrete step.

00:24:05.280 Do you think there will be another stimulus to help those who are waiting for unemployment?

00:24:10.500 I'd much rather be working, though.

00:24:12.360 Hashtag verdict.

00:24:13.400 Do you think there's another going to be another infusion of cash in people's bank accounts?

00:24:16.900 Maybe.

00:24:19.500 Maybe.

00:24:21.260 So we've passed a total of four different bills in response to this major bills in response to this crisis.

00:24:30.560 They were numbered Bill 1, Bill 2, Bill 3, and then kind of Bill 3.5 that was supplementing the Paycheck Protection Plan.

00:24:38.940 The big one was Bill 3, the CARES Act.

00:24:44.000 All told, all four of those bills have been nearly $3 trillion, a whole lot of money.

00:24:49.140 Wow.

00:24:50.840 We're now back in session.

00:24:52.520 The Senate is back in session.

00:24:54.060 We were back this week.

00:24:54.980 I was in D.C. all week.

00:24:56.040 And it is being vigorously debated what Congress should do next.

00:25:01.340 And I've got to say they're wildly different views.

00:25:03.800 So the Democrats want to spend trillions more.

00:25:06.740 And they've got a couple of things they're pushing to do.

00:25:09.700 One, they're trying to do their whole partisan wish list that they tried to do on all the past legislation.

00:25:14.940 Things like codifying the Green New Deal.

00:25:17.140 Things like changing election standards nationally to benefit Democrats at the polls.

00:25:24.680 They're pushing that hard.

00:25:26.520 But their biggest priority seems to be bailouts for big blue states that have huge pension liabilities that long preceded this crisis, have nothing to do with coronavirus.

00:25:38.540 But the Democrats want to use that to bail the states out anyway.

00:25:43.800 What I've been arguing and what a fair number of Republicans have been saying is slow down here.

00:25:48.780 We've spent $3 trillion.

00:25:50.740 And by the way, it's not like the money's sitting there in a vault.

00:25:53.760 We're just borrowing it.

00:25:55.320 We're borrowing it and racking up the credit card.

00:25:58.420 We're not going to get out of this crisis through debt.

00:26:02.140 We're not going to get out through borrowing.

00:26:04.180 The only way to get out is to restart the economy.

00:26:06.580 So I think the next bill should be a recovery bill.

00:26:10.100 It should focus on tax reform and regulatory reform.

00:26:13.760 As small businesses are starting to open up, small businesses like Sherry Luther's hair salon, we ought to be lessening the tax burden, the regulatory burden, making it easier for those businesses to survive and thrive.

00:26:27.660 That's the only thing powerful enough to actually turn this around.

00:26:32.820 We can't borrow enough money in Washington and spend enough money to get there.

00:26:37.480 And so at this point, I think it's very much in flux what Congress will do.

00:26:42.420 But this debate is live and raging right now.

00:26:45.260 Well, especially because the country that we most often borrow from happens to be China.

00:26:50.120 And one of the consequences of this pandemic is we're now trying to decouple ourselves a little bit from China. 0.98

00:26:56.060 You can't do that if you keep taking all of their money.

00:26:59.140 You know, I also want to take a moment just to thank all of the listeners.

00:27:02.260 I just saw this number come across the screen.

00:27:05.120 We have now had five million, more than five million audio downloads alone, just the audio from the podcast.

00:27:12.580 I don't think, Senator, I felt confident going in, but I didn't feel that confident.

00:27:16.120 And I don't think either of us thought that the show would go that big and be listened to by that many people.

00:27:22.420 So thank you so much.

00:27:23.440 You can always subscribe at Apple Podcasts or Google Play or Stitcher.

00:27:27.900 Or if you ask us nicely, we'll send an audio cassette with a carrier pigeon to your house.

00:27:32.420 You know, get it anywhere on the Internet.

00:27:34.860 And please send your questions in with hashtag verdict.

00:27:38.060 This question comes in from Mahi.

00:27:41.760 Is that like the Hawaiian fish?

00:27:43.100 I don't know.

00:27:43.440 How do you feel about Andrew Cuomo's handling of the situation?

00:27:47.420 It seems to me like other states suffered as a result of Cuomo's and de Blasio's handling.

00:27:52.720 And I'm from the Bronx, by the way.

00:27:57.240 Look, I don't know Cuomo personally.

00:27:59.960 I do think New York has had an incredibly hard run of it.

00:28:04.960 What's happening in New York City is horrific.

00:28:08.340 I think Cuomo has been markedly better than de Blasio.

00:28:12.300 That's not a very high bar.

00:28:14.120 But de Blasio has been so over eager, so willing to put the jackboot on that it's really been dismaying.

00:28:25.080 I've seen a fair amount written about Cuomo's decision to send people to nursing homes and to force nursing homes to take people with coronavirus.

00:28:34.680 And obviously, many of the deaths that have occurred nationally have occurred in nursing homes.

00:28:43.660 More than half of the deaths in the U.S. from COVID-19 have occurred in New York and New Jersey.

00:28:48.860 And so that really is the locus of it.

00:28:51.500 And it's horrific.

00:28:52.400 I don't want to throw rocks at Cuomo in the midst of a crisis like this.

00:28:59.180 I do think there will be serious questions asked, especially about the nursing home issue.

00:29:05.160 But in a time of crisis, we ought to be coming together and solving the public health crisis and also solving the economic catastrophe that has come hand in hand with that.

00:29:19.820 Yeah, I agree.

00:29:20.720 I think that's probably a good impulse to try to bring people together.

00:29:23.800 I just think a lot of people, it's not even that they're upset with Andrew Cuomo specifically.

00:29:28.260 It's that they're upset at the double standard, the hypocrisy.

00:29:31.940 You know, Andrew Cuomo, who maybe he did an OK job, maybe he didn't.

00:29:35.240 I don't know.

00:29:35.520 There's some evidence that he didn't.

00:29:36.820 He's being hailed as the great hero of coronavirus.

00:29:40.240 And yet other governors or the president who have done at least as good a job as Cuomo did are being pilloried for, you know, just destroying the whole country.

00:29:47.860 It's that double standard.

00:29:49.100 I think it's very difficult for people to swallow.

00:29:51.860 Well, listen, I think one of the biggest shifts in the age of Trump is the utter fraud of the media has been exposed.

00:30:02.160 Yeah.

00:30:04.340 You remember three, four years ago, people used to argue, oh, the media isn't biased.

00:30:09.980 Nobody argues that anymore.

00:30:11.020 Seems like forever ago.

00:30:13.060 Even lefties, you can't watch the media.

00:30:18.080 They hate Trump so much.

00:30:21.520 I mean, Trump derangement syndrome. 0.67

00:30:23.880 I mean, they twitch and foam at the mouth.

00:30:25.740 And anything he does, look, there are things that Trump does that I wish he didn't do.

00:30:30.220 There are things he says I wish he didn't say. 0.71

00:30:33.200 But when the media is just the only thing they can do is scream, orange man bad, orange man bad, it starts to get ludicrous.

00:30:42.160 And when the media is just a willing shill for Chinese communist propaganda.

00:30:50.620 So it pisses me off every time I see the media saying, oh, so-and-so country has a worse case of coronavirus than China.

00:31:02.260 Well, that's only because they're doctoring their numbers and lying to us. 0.95

00:31:05.600 And the story that was the most ridiculous was CNN did a story.

00:31:09.420 So the Chinese government, their military propaganda site, put out a story that says the Chinese military is dealing with coronavirus much better than the American military.

00:31:22.440 And CNN wrote a whole story saying the Chinese military is doing a better job than the American military with coronavirus.

00:31:31.300 Source, the government website from the Chinese communist government.

00:31:35.380 And it was literally, they're repeating Chinese communist propaganda.

00:31:40.520 And it, so, of course, the media, bestill my beating heart.

00:31:47.600 These Democratic governors are wonderful.

00:31:49.900 And every Republican governor, the president, you know, apparently they were all in the wet market in Wuhan.

00:31:57.460 And Donald Trump is personally responsible for this virus as the media tells. 0.98

00:32:02.640 Look, I mean, it's, it's, the, the double standard in hypocrisy is a little ridiculous. 0.98

00:32:07.520 Sure. 0.88

00:32:07.740 And I think you're probably right.

00:32:09.060 I think a lot of people are tuning them out.

00:32:11.140 This from Cheyenne the Wolf, who I think is a person, but that's the Twitter name.

00:32:15.280 How do we get the churches open again?

00:32:18.520 I think that, frankly, from my perspective, that's the question on top of my mind.

00:32:22.280 I think that's true for a lot of people.

00:32:25.000 So I, I, I did, um, last weekend I went and did an interview, did a podcast with my pastor.

00:32:34.000 And I actually feel kind of bad, Michael.

00:32:35.080 I feel like I'm confessing infidelity to you.

00:32:37.220 Yeah, what the heck?

00:32:37.780 You're doing other shows?

00:32:38.600 That I went and did another podcast.

00:32:40.160 I, I, you know, I, so I'm, I, I hadn't admitted that to you, but anyway, my pastor said,

00:32:44.700 come to the church.

00:32:45.940 And we did, we, we did, uh, I would say that's probably 45 minutes, an hour.

00:32:49.900 We talked back and forth and, uh, you know, it's interesting in our church, what the pastor

00:32:54.940 did, he sent out an email to all the members and said, what do you think?

00:32:57.880 Where, what's the right balance of when are you comfortable coming back?

00:33:04.200 Um, look, we've seen, I think it will vary geographically.

00:33:12.580 Um, it needs to be based on, on sound science and medicine.

00:33:16.300 So for example, New York city, the, the infection rate and the fatalities there are, are, are

00:33:22.180 horrific.

00:33:23.460 And, and I think it makes sense for people to be, have much more rigorous standards trying

00:33:28.780 to enforce social distancing in New York city right now.

00:33:31.400 There are other parts of the country where the numbers, uh, are, are much less.

00:33:35.800 Um, we've seen local officials abusing their power.

00:33:39.440 So Tennessee and Mississippi, both instances, you had people that are actually Kentucky and

00:33:44.800 Mississippi, both instances, you had people who, uh, went to church, went to church in

00:33:50.820 their cars, were listening to the pastor over the radio.

00:33:54.080 So they didn't get out of their cars.

00:33:55.160 They were all parked together in the parking lot, listening to the service over the radio,

00:33:59.080 but they wanted to be parked together.

00:34:01.260 And, and, and the, the politicians sent in police to ticket them all.

00:34:05.020 Now that's just absurd.

00:34:06.960 That's just abusive, but, but let me give a, a, a different encouragement, which is the

00:34:17.980 church is not a building.

00:34:20.380 The church is not bricks or mortars.

00:34:22.780 One of the things when I did the podcast with my pastor last week, I was saying, look, this

00:34:27.140 is an opportunity for the church, an opportunity for the church to, to show, show the love of

00:34:33.120 Jesus, show, um, to, to show care and concern and to help others, to help, you know, elderly

00:34:46.740 people who are alone, who are isolated, they need love.

00:34:50.000 They need people to reach out to them, maybe not physically, but they need to not feel alone

00:34:54.780 and scared.

00:34:55.200 There's so many people who are understandably scared of their own mortality.

00:35:01.140 And, and this is an opportunity for the church.

00:35:06.400 I think not to worry about the physical building, but to worry about the community we're in and

00:35:13.480 to be the church, to be the body of Christ and show that love.

00:35:17.400 Uh, that I think is, is, is much, much more important, uh, than, than the exact date and

00:35:28.860 time we're able to gather in large groups again.

00:35:31.660 Sure.

00:35:31.940 That's true.

00:35:32.400 And, and that date and time will be different, you know, as you say, for, for different places

00:35:36.480 and, uh, as it should be, maybe if, if we could all take a little note of federalism out

00:35:40.720 of this pandemic, uh, that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

00:35:43.020 I, absolutely.

00:35:44.900 From the seer, this might be the most important question yet.

00:35:48.360 What number guard do you use for your beard?

00:35:51.780 I assume that question is to you, not to me.

00:35:55.480 Um, I don't know is the short answer.

00:35:59.160 So I, I bought this, this beard trimmer.

00:36:01.740 I, so I first grew the beard, uh, Thanksgiving, not last Thanksgiving, but Thanksgiving before.

00:36:07.720 And I just went on Thanksgiving break and I usually on holiday don't shave.

00:36:11.240 And at the end of vacation, I usually shave and, and I just came back and decide, all

00:36:17.660 right, what the heck?

00:36:18.220 I'm not going to.

00:36:19.320 And, and I'd like to say it was some profound statement or anything.

00:36:23.760 It was just kind of, I hadn't grown a beard since law school and I figured, all right,

00:36:27.140 this will be fun.

00:36:27.740 Um, and, and, and I got to say, um, my, my campaign manager sends me this email when he

00:36:38.580 sees this picture of me circulating around with sort of the wispy beginnings of a beard.

00:36:42.900 And he's just like worst decision ever.

00:36:46.520 Really?

00:36:48.160 Uh, he, he was anti-beard, hard anti-beard.

00:36:51.440 And, and, and so I kind of taunted him and we, we, I am not surrounded by yes, man.

00:36:59.160 Let me say that it is, uh, um, it is, we all hold our own pretty well.

00:37:05.200 So the beard started growing in and then it started getting fairly unruly.

00:37:10.360 And, and, and I was doing some, some press interview, it was a Sunday show at my house

00:37:17.340 and, and like, like the, the, the team started getting upset that the beard was a little too

00:37:22.020 duck dynasty for their taste.

00:37:23.860 And, and so, so they, they asked a young guy to run over to the house and buy a beard trimmer 0.99

00:37:30.180 and be like, here, trim that damn thing. 0.98

00:37:33.560 And I'd never trimmed a beard. 0.99

00:37:35.260 I'm like, I don't know.

00:37:36.280 So I just, I got a beard trimmer and they have different clips that you clip on the thing.

00:37:41.240 And so I just clipped on whatever the biggest one is.

00:37:44.300 So the longest, whatever the longest clip is that fits on the beard trimmer, that's the

00:37:49.180 one I used and, and cut it down some.

00:37:52.560 And, uh.

00:37:53.820 You know, I'm imagining, Senator.

00:37:55.140 So I, I don't know what number is the short answer.

00:37:57.360 I'm imagining if you hadn't trimmed it by now, you'd, you'd look like one of those

00:38:00.740 Russian Orthodox priests. 0.75

00:38:02.640 And then some crook at the FBI might accuse you of colluding or something. 0.71

00:38:06.560 I don't know.

00:38:06.960 I mean, I think it's probably lucky that you were able to trim that beard.

00:38:10.520 So, so I've ever told you a good friend of mine who was, he used to be on, on my Senate

00:38:17.060 staff.

00:38:17.720 Um, he, he had right about when I grew the beard, he had left and, and was living, uh, in

00:38:24.300 Jerusalem and was, was, was it yeshiva?

00:38:26.600 Yeah.

00:38:26.780 Um, and, and he sent me an email.

00:38:29.340 He, he said a friend of his was a rabbi who had seen, seen a picture of the beard.

00:38:33.860 He, he said, the beard has a rabbinical and Talmudic look to it, uh, that will bring peace

00:38:42.440 to the Middle East and put the fear of God in the enemies of Israel. 0.80

00:38:47.180 Um, I like cracked up, this is a real email.

00:38:51.720 And so I actually literally cut and pasted it and I tweeted it out.

00:38:54.960 I'm like, okay, this may be a bit much.

00:38:57.260 I'm not sure about, uh, I'm glad you're like the beard, but it, but it did, it did at least

00:39:02.240 make me laugh.

00:39:02.820 Wow.

00:39:03.120 That's great.

00:39:03.600 I would probably put that line in my Twitter bio, but that's a very, very good feedback.

00:39:07.520 Nevertheless, from John James with $30 trillion in debt, $200 trillion in obligations and a

00:39:16.120 hundred trillion dollars in state debts.

00:39:18.080 How will we ever get our finances in order when, when the GOP, as well as the Democrats

00:39:23.600 keep kicking the can down the road?

00:39:27.140 I look at it.

00:39:27.980 It is a massive problem.

00:39:29.500 It was a massive problem three months ago, and now it's even worse.

00:39:34.360 Um, we've spent $3 trillion in just a couple of months.

00:39:40.020 Um, and the problem is it's a bipartisan problem, uh, in the Senate for, in ordinary times for

00:39:47.400 any trillion dollar spending bill, you get all the Democrats and you get half to two thirds

00:39:53.340 of the Republicans.

00:39:53.960 There may be 20 of us that try to hold the line and try to push back, but it, but those

00:40:00.760 votes are usually about 80, 20.

00:40:03.380 Um, the only way you will get that is, is, is with presidential leadership and, and, and

00:40:11.100 there are areas where the president has been vigorous and aggressive.

00:40:16.000 He, he didn't run in 2016 promising to cut spending.

00:40:19.440 Uh, he didn't run campaigning against debt.

00:40:22.160 Uh, and so when the president is supporting it, that makes it easy for a whole bunch of

00:40:28.680 Republicans to support it.

00:40:29.760 And all the Democrats always support spending.

00:40:32.280 Um, the answer in terms of how we turn it around, I'd say a couple of things.

00:40:38.040 One, you need presidential leadership that's willing to take it on, but two, you've got to

00:40:41.400 have economic growth.

00:40:42.660 So if you look at the numbers, you look at all the, the variables that go into our federal

00:40:49.280 budget, there is only one first order variable, which is there's only one variable that, that

00:40:55.680 has just, just a dramatic impact.

00:40:58.440 And it is, and it is economic growth.

00:41:00.600 If we're at anemic levels of growth, if we're at one and 2% growth, which is what we had

00:41:08.240 for, for the Obama administration for eight years with anemic growth, you can't solve this

00:41:14.200 problem.

00:41:14.540 Right.

00:41:15.480 With robust growth, three, four, 5% growth, the debt becomes much easier to solve.

00:41:23.000 If you look at the last time the, the federal deficit went to zero and we actually had a surplus,

00:41:28.920 it was after 12 years of, of Reagan Bush.

00:41:32.640 It was after 12 years of cutting taxes, reducing regulations, and the economic growth was such

00:41:38.000 that when it got to Bill Clinton, Bill Clinton inherited a $4 trillion surplus.

00:41:43.360 That wasn't that long ago.

00:41:45.260 And it was the incredible economic growth that came from tax reform and reg reform.

00:41:52.500 A little bit of a Johnny One note, growth, growth, growth, and you get it from tax reform

00:41:57.620 and reg reform.

00:41:59.180 Now, we're in, we're in a situation economically this country hasn't seen since the Great Depression.

00:42:07.860 It's frightening.

00:42:09.500 This is, this is 33 million Americans have lost their job in two months.

00:42:14.800 We had, we had strong growth until three months ago.

00:42:18.700 Yeah.

00:42:20.260 We've got to turn it around.

00:42:21.820 I will say, as we start shifting the conversation into a growth conversation, look, when you're

00:42:28.380 shoveling cash out the door by the trillions, that's kind of naturally the Democrats playing field.

00:42:37.760 Correct.

00:42:38.260 If you're a statist, if you're a socialist, shoveling cash, you love to do.

00:42:43.700 If we start shifting into the recovery debate, which is where I think we should be, how do

00:42:48.540 we bring growth back?

00:42:49.760 How do we bring those jobs back? 0.55

00:42:51.840 That then is a conservative or a libertarian's battlefield where the only way to do it is tax

00:42:57.220 reform and reg reform.

00:42:58.220 And so if we can get growth up and, and for someone who says, well, well, gosh, it seems hopeless.

00:43:07.320 I mean, things are so bad as, is it just, are we doomed from war, war two to the present GDP growth has averaged

00:43:18.440 about 3.3% a year from 2008 to 2012.

00:43:24.220 Under Barack Obama, it averaged 0.9% a year, less than 1% over four years.

00:43:30.680 The last four year period before that, where, where, where GDP growth averaged less than 1%

00:43:36.520 was 78 to 82.

00:43:38.860 It was coming out of Jimmy Carter.

00:43:40.060 Yep.

00:43:40.920 And what happened then, what happened then is, and by the way, what produced it in both instances

00:43:46.220 was high taxes, high regulations, strangling small businesses and growth becomes anemic.

00:43:50.400 Now, Reagan comes in in 81, cuts taxes, simplifies the tax code, uh, repeals job-killing regulations.

00:43:59.100 We go from four years of GDP growth less than 1%.

00:44:03.760 Do you know what GDP growth was in 1984?

00:44:07.780 I don't remember.

00:44:10.640 7.2%.

00:44:14.000 Man.

00:44:14.400 Those are crazy numbers, and we did that.

00:44:19.660 That's what fueled the incredible growth.

00:44:22.580 By the way, JFK, JFK campaigned on 5% GDP growth, and then he cut taxes and repealed regulations,

00:44:29.640 and we got 5% GDP growth.

00:44:31.980 You want to turn the debt around, the only thing strong enough to do it is the incredible

00:44:36.560 engine of the American free enterprise system, and it's growth, growth, growth has got to be

00:44:41.860 our focus.

00:44:42.100 Right, and we're not going to be able to get there if we're locked down for two years,

00:44:45.920 so I think that's another reason to be eager to start to lift some of these, uh, these lockdowns.

00:44:51.260 From Joe, Joe wants to know, do you think central banks issuing digital cryptocurrency

00:44:57.400 will lead to the government keeping us from buying and selling?

00:45:02.360 Hmm.

00:45:04.340 It's a question I know absolutely nothing about.

00:45:06.300 Yeah, I got to admit, I don't know much about that question either.

00:45:11.480 Look, when it comes to the Fed, um, I am nervous about the Fed.

00:45:16.340 I'm nervous about unchecked power.

00:45:18.280 I've long been a co-sponsor of Audit the Fed legislation.

00:45:22.260 I think we need to audit the Fed.

00:45:24.740 Um, right now, the Fed is doing a lot to provide liquidity to all sorts of players in the economy.

00:45:34.080 I'm, I'm glad if that helps our, our, helps our economy make it through this, but I suspect

00:45:40.520 there are going to be some ugly components there that will come out later.

00:45:44.480 And, and so, uh, the cryptocurrency world, you know, Bitcoin, I have to admit, like, I,

00:45:55.660 I have some friends that have, have gotten into the Bitcoin world and I, and I'm all, I'm

00:46:00.320 quite libertarian, so I'm like, great, knock yourself out.

00:46:04.120 And a couple who are like, hey, you know, you ought to put a thousand dollars into this.

00:46:08.780 And I don't entirely understand it.

00:46:11.180 Yeah.

00:46:11.640 Like, I just, I, they've tried to explain it to me and I'm like, okay, I'm not sure.

00:46:17.520 And so I don't, like, I don't have that much money to invest to begin with, but, but I,

00:46:21.320 I don't like to put, put what money I have in something that I don't, don't fundamentally

00:46:25.100 understand and it seems to be very volatile and some people it's gone way up and then

00:46:30.380 usually things that can go way up really fast can go way down really fast.

00:46:35.360 Um, so I don't know.

00:46:39.400 I will say when it comes to policymakers regulating things like crypto, cryptocurrency, I think

00:46:49.480 most of the federal government doesn't know what it's doing yet.

00:46:51.600 is, is, is not sure what the right answer is.

00:46:57.100 I don't doubt there's some big government folks that want to take over everything with

00:47:00.660 it.

00:47:02.420 Is there a role for combating fraud and money laundering and, and sure, but I, I don't know

00:47:13.700 is the short answer.

00:47:14.240 Sure.

00:47:14.620 Well, no, I'm basically with you, Senator, including on the investment front.

00:47:18.340 I spoke to George Gilder, who I think he was the, the most cited writer by Ronald Reagan

00:47:24.160 during his entire presidency, George Gilder, very, very insightful guy.

00:47:27.680 And he wrote this whole book about how blockchain, you know, the, the essence of, of Bitcoin and

00:47:32.340 cryptocurrency, blockchain is the future of the internet.

00:47:34.720 And I have no doubt that he's, he's right, but I, I don't understand it either.

00:47:40.080 It certainly doesn't appear to be happening right now.

00:47:42.040 And so obviously the government is going to weigh in on this more as it develops.

00:47:46.000 And in the meantime, uh, I guess there's a tendency, you, you, you know, the famous

00:47:51.520 story of the emperor's new clothes where the, where the emperor's riding naked down the

00:47:55.680 street, uh, because, because some unscrupulous tailors convinced him they had, uh, invisible

00:48:01.720 thread and, and, and everyone was afraid to say, this guy's naked.

00:48:06.380 He's not wearing anything like group think can be really dangerous.

00:48:09.920 And, and you look at like Holland's, uh, the tulip bulbs that, that like there was an

00:48:15.880 investment mania where everyone wanted tulip bulbs.

00:48:19.180 As it so happens, I bought Heidi some purple tulips yesterday and I don't know why I thought

00:48:23.400 of the tulip bulbs, but they became incredibly valuable, like, like flower bulbs.

00:48:28.480 Like why would you be spending tons of money on flower bulbs?

00:48:32.480 I don't get it, but it became, everyone was afraid to say the emperor has no clothes and

00:48:37.380 so everyone wanted tulip bulbs and then they went way up and then they collapsed.

00:48:40.820 And, and I do think there are tendencies, people are scared to say they don't understand

00:48:45.580 something and, and that, that could be a very dangerous place to, to get involved.

00:48:50.540 I, I'm still waiting for my beanie babies to shoot right back up through the roof.

00:48:54.580 I'm going to be a wealthy man when that happens, probably just right around the corner, that

00:48:58.880 and that and the tulips as well.

00:49:00.500 Uh, this question from, uh, CB, I am a waitress.

00:49:06.280 My governor's orders are a slap in the face to me.

00:49:09.660 Mr. Cruz, what is the most effective way in your opinion to end these restrictions?

00:49:14.860 I've heard people say, call the DOJ.

00:49:17.480 The Supreme court refused to hear the Pennsylvania case.

00:49:20.220 I'm not quite sure what that's referring to.

00:49:22.780 Uh, for people who can't work at all, you know, some like a waitress simply cannot work 1.00

00:49:27.760 during this.

00:49:28.840 Obviously it's much more urgent to restart the economy than for people who can work from 0.98

00:49:33.100 home.

00:49:34.360 Should they write to their congressman?

00:49:36.080 I mean, what, what is best for them to do right now?

00:49:39.300 So, so did, did CB say where she was?

00:49:42.840 No, no, she didn't.

00:49:44.960 Okay.

00:49:45.440 Uh, look, I mean, it's, it's harder because it's varying state by state and some of it is

00:49:49.800 depending on, on the facts and circumstances.

00:49:52.840 If, if the infection is really bad and, and, and widespread, then, then the restrictions

00:49:58.280 will probably be around for a while.

00:50:00.060 I think there's also a pretty sharp difference here between Republicans and Democrats.

00:50:04.440 So if you're in, she mentioned Pennsylvania.

00:50:07.060 Look, if she's in Pennsylvania, they have a democratic governor. 1.00

00:50:09.780 Yeah.

00:50:09.980 And, and, and you're seeing part of the messed up thing about where we are today is everything

00:50:18.140 in life seems to be defined based on what you think about Donald Trump.

00:50:23.500 Yeah.

00:50:24.320 And it's weird.

00:50:26.280 I mean, I mean, it's so, so for Democrats who hate Trump, everything is about Trump and

00:50:32.660 it, and it's just, and, and, and, and so this virus, this pandemic, it's all his fault.

00:50:40.700 And their view is everything's got to stay shut down forever.

00:50:43.740 And we're seeing democratic politicians that are saying until there's not one case.

00:50:49.780 Yeah.

00:50:50.120 Right.

00:50:50.520 We'll just shut down everyone forever.

00:50:52.740 Look, that's a little nutty and okay.

00:50:55.380 I'm sorry.

00:50:55.880 You don't like Trump, but, but that's, that doesn't make any sense.

00:50:58.320 It's just impossible.

00:50:58.760 Now, look, to, to be fair on the flip side, there are folks who, who love Trump, who, who

00:51:05.220 I think are too quick to dismiss this pandemic as it's a hoax.

00:51:09.460 It's not real.

00:51:10.800 This thing's real.

00:51:12.200 It's dangerous.

00:51:13.320 People are dying and, and we need to treat it seriously.

00:51:16.080 And I got to say where I am and where I think most Texans are is let's use common

00:51:22.640 sense.

00:51:23.200 Let's treat it seriously.

00:51:24.460 Let's, let's do what we can to, to slow and stop the spread of the virus, but let's

00:51:30.780 not at the same time strangle small businesses and destroy people's livelihoods.

00:51:35.880 So Texas, we, we just rolled out.

00:51:38.600 So for example, um, CB said she's a waitress.

00:51:41.740 Uh, we're, we've now, Texas has laid out guidelines that has allowed restaurants to

00:51:46.620 reopen.

00:51:47.080 Now they're reopening at 25% capacity.

00:51:49.000 So Sunday night, um, Heidi and I, and the girls, we went out to dinner for the first

00:51:54.400 time.

00:51:54.720 We hadn't been out to dinner in, I don't know, two, three months.

00:51:57.460 And so we went out, we went out to sushi, which, uh, um, the girls love Heidi loves.

00:52:04.600 I, I actually like sushi too.

00:52:06.020 Although a friend of mine was laughing and went your first meal, you went out for bait.

00:52:09.700 But well, yeah.

00:52:11.580 Um, but now look, we, we wore masks into the restaurant.

00:52:15.260 You had to take them off.

00:52:16.380 You obviously can't eat with a mask on, but all the tables were spread apart, pretty far

00:52:22.240 apart.

00:52:22.800 Yeah.

00:52:23.500 Um, and it's at 25% capacity and, and the plan, hopefully if, if, if the numbers supported

00:52:29.860 in Texas, what the governor's laid out is to shift to 50% capacity and then keep, keep

00:52:35.000 going to you, to you get up that very state by state.

00:52:39.520 I got to say, if, if, if CB is in a blue state with a democratic governor who is focused

00:52:45.100 on, I hate Trump and want to stay shut down forever, you know, my advice might be move 0.98

00:52:51.260 somewhere where you don't have politicians who are as crazy. 0.98

00:52:56.660 I've been thinking about that every day, Senator from Quentin.

00:53:00.580 Do you think that China should just cancel the debt that we owe them since they've cost 0.96

00:53:05.640 the U.S. trillions?

00:53:06.860 That seems like a simple answer to the debt.

00:53:08.500 Why can't we do that?

00:53:09.440 Oh, look, I, if I had a magic wand, sure.

00:53:16.600 Um, they're not going to, um, we need to deal with them seriously, but there's some

00:53:24.300 folks saying, okay, let's seize Chinese assets. 0.95

00:53:27.780 Okay.

00:53:28.920 But look, when you're dealing with foreign policy, all right, we seize a bunch of Chinese 1.00

00:53:32.880 assets.

00:53:33.340 You know what they're going to do?

00:53:34.060 They're going to seize a bunch of American assets.

00:53:35.380 It's like, you know, you, you know, that that's, that is a dangerous road to go down.

00:53:41.660 So would I love it?

00:53:43.420 You know, if, if I'd also love it if my mortgage company forgave my debt, that'd be nice.

00:53:48.280 So yes, but would it, would I love it?

00:53:52.420 Of course I would.

00:53:53.720 Do I really have any ability to make it happen?

00:53:56.000 No.

00:53:57.240 Um, when it comes to China, I think of it in phases.

00:54:01.180 Number one, we need a real accounting.

00:54:03.800 We need a real accounting of their responsibility.

00:54:06.200 You and I have talked at length on this podcast.

00:54:08.420 We were among the first to talk about how the preponderance of the evidence is this virus

00:54:13.820 likely came from one of the two Chinese labs in Wuhan that was studying coronaviruses derived

00:54:20.700 from bats.

00:54:22.320 One of those labs was 300 yards from the wet market in Wuhan where this outbreak occurred.

00:54:27.700 Um, by the way, the nearest bats we know of that have, have comparable viruses are a thousand

00:54:35.120 miles away in caves in China.

00:54:37.480 Right.

00:54:37.980 Not only that, we know that the Chinese government demanded of these labs, they destroy their samples.

00:54:45.260 Now, when you destroy your, when you destroy evidence, that raises an inference.

00:54:52.400 And by the way, courts do this all the time.

00:54:54.440 If you destroy evidence, you're in litigation, you go destroy evidence, you, that raises an

00:54:59.480 inference that, that the evidence would have revealed something damning to you, something

00:55:04.580 that shows your responsibility.

00:55:06.580 The fact that they destroyed those samples, uh, does a lot.

00:55:09.900 And, and let me say something also, so there are lots of people pretending to be learned

00:55:15.260 saying, oh, the evidence is all circumstantial.

00:55:18.440 Hey, that's actually true.

00:55:20.600 Most people, Michael, who are not lawyers, don't know the difference between circumstantial

00:55:24.400 and direct evidence.

00:55:26.400 Um, direct evidence is, let's say, an eyewitness.

00:55:31.160 If I see you point a gun at somebody and shoot them, and I testify, I saw Michael shoot

00:55:37.900 so-and-so, that's direct evidence. 0.92

00:55:40.620 Uh, circumstantial evidence, let's say you've gone to the opera, and you're watching the

00:55:45.740 opera, and suddenly you see a man, you hear a gunshot, you see a man leap from the balcony,

00:55:52.200 holding a gun, saying, sick, sick, semper tyrannis, and run off.

00:55:57.300 Now, that's all circumstantial evidence that you just saw John Wilkes Booth shoot Abraham 0.98

00:56:02.500 Lincoln.

00:56:02.760 But if you didn't see it, that is circumstantial.

00:56:06.540 Well, by the way, people get convicted on circumstantial evidence all the time.

00:56:10.840 It is simply looking to the circumstances and drawing reasonable inferences.

00:56:15.980 The evidence we have suggests the most rational assessment is this lab.

00:56:27.480 One of these two labs, or both, was studying this virus, and presumably it escaped accidentally.

00:56:36.040 Um, and, and the media fact-checkers that try to refute this, what they keep saying is,

00:56:40.760 there's no evidence this was a bioweapon released deliberately.

00:56:43.860 Well, duh, like, even as bad as the Chinese are, I, okay, maybe, look, anything's possible, 1.00

00:56:51.860 but I agree that there is not evidence that they released a bioweapon to kill their own 0.73

00:56:56.920 people.

00:57:00.400 But we do know that they were studying bat coronaviruses in, in these labs right there

00:57:05.160 where the outbreak occurred.

00:57:06.220 Third, let's start with a real accounting.

00:57:11.340 Was the novel coronavirus in those labs?

00:57:13.880 What were the safety protocols?

00:57:15.040 We know also the State Department had two internal wires before this crisis raising concerns

00:57:21.680 about the shoddy security protocols and actually warning that the security was so shoddy it could

00:57:27.760 lead to a global pandemic of coronavirus.

00:57:29.660 Uh, that sounds kind of relevant.

00:57:33.420 Yeah.

00:57:34.040 We also know for a fact that the Chinese government covered it up, that they suppressed it, that

00:57:40.560 they hid it.

00:57:41.380 And so I think we should start with a serious accounting driven by us, driven by third parties,

00:57:48.160 driven by other countries to ascertain it's clear China's directly responsible.

00:57:52.700 We need to get the facts.

00:57:54.120 The harder question will be then, therefore what?

00:57:57.580 Mm-hmm.

00:57:59.660 Yes, they should pay.

00:58:01.160 How they should pay?

00:58:02.940 To be honest, we're going to be battling with them.

00:58:05.260 I don't think they're going to pull out a checkbook willingly anytime soon.

00:58:08.480 Yeah.

00:58:08.940 So we're going to have to figure that out back and forth.

00:58:11.540 And one of the things that will make us more able to be vigorous in solving that is decoupling

00:58:18.340 from China.

00:58:19.020 So much of our supply chain right now is dependent on China.

00:58:21.880 So many of our life-saving medicines are manufactured in China.

00:58:25.520 I am fighting hard to bring that manufacturing back to the U.S.

00:58:31.160 so that they don't have the ability to do what they threaten to do during this crisis, which

00:58:35.340 is cut off life-saving medicines and kill Americans. 0.86

00:58:38.660 As long as we're intertwined with them, the ability to lean in is constrained and dangerous.

00:58:47.860 But let's start with a full accounting.

00:58:49.540 And at the same time, let's be decoupling.

00:58:52.000 That's such an important point.

00:58:53.580 It seems like common sense.

00:58:55.080 There's no such thing as a free lunch, right?

00:58:57.420 All right.

00:58:57.560 So I've lost audio.

00:58:58.960 You've lost me.

00:59:00.360 I wonder if the rest of the audience can hear me.

00:59:03.300 But it's a good thing that, Michael, you're such a good actor.

00:59:07.160 Because the next question is going to have to be mine.

00:59:11.460 Well, let's see.

00:59:12.360 I don't know if you can hear me, but can you do a box?

00:59:14.580 Yes.

00:59:15.140 I would say that for the next question—

00:59:18.300 Okay, I'm still—I have zero audio.

00:59:20.260 I will learn sign language before the next episode.

00:59:24.140 But until then, I will take that as a providential sign, either from the heavens above or from

00:59:32.000 the Chinese government, you know, that's tapping into our streams or anything in the 0.85

00:59:36.580 middle, that that will have to be the end of this episode, almost at one hour on the dot.

00:59:40.880 I'm back, Senator.

00:59:42.160 You're back.

00:59:42.460 You know, I have a theory.

00:59:44.320 That it was the Chinese government hacking into our streamline because they didn't like

00:59:48.000 all the things that you were saying.

00:59:50.080 I think that's right.

00:59:51.120 By the way, could you hear me?

00:59:52.540 Yes, I could hear you.

00:59:54.040 And I guess you couldn't understand my sign language and my miming.

00:59:58.360 I must say, you know, for someone that makes a living in Hollywood as an actor, that was

01:00:04.460 an exceptionally poor box.

01:00:07.080 You know, I'm just—

01:00:09.400 Listen, Senator, you say you don't surround yourself with yes men.

01:00:12.440 Clearly, I don't surround myself with yes men either.

01:00:15.200 I take your constructive criticism.

01:00:18.200 You know, though, what's amazing is that audio cut out almost exactly at one hour.

01:00:23.360 So we—I think we've exhausted not even one-tenth of the questions, but we'll have to save the

01:00:29.040 rest for the next episode.

01:00:30.840 In the meantime, Senator, I look forward to hopefully seeing you in person one of these

01:00:35.900 days sometime soon.

01:00:37.400 We'll have to wait and see as we reopen.

01:00:39.360 I'm Michael Knowles.

01:00:40.260 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

01:00:42.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

01:00:56.000 Guaranteed Human.

Verdict with Ted Cruz - May 09, 2020

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