Verdict with Ted Cruz - Bad Hombres ft. DHS Secretary Chad Wolf

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.560 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.700 A crisis at the border, a crisis within the borders,

00:00:09.080 civil unrest all over the country,

00:00:11.160 and we are lucky enough to have taken a little bit of time

00:00:14.640 out of the day of the man who has to deal with all of it,

00:00:18.220 the acting secretary of the Department of Homeland Security,

00:00:20.920 Chad Wolf.

00:00:21.840 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:00:23.520 Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:00:31.220 I am joined, as always, by Senator Ted Cruz.

00:00:33.760 And, Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for taking the time out.

00:00:37.040 I know you're very busy.

00:00:38.320 Certainly a pleasure. Thank you for having me.

00:00:40.520 So, is there anything to talk about?

00:00:42.760 I think there are a few things, probably.

00:00:44.400 The world's on fire.

00:00:45.520 The world is on fire, and, Mr. Secretary,

00:00:48.080 you've got to deal with a lot of it.

00:00:49.820 Let's begin all the way on the West Coast in Portland.

00:00:53.520 There has been violence, civil unrest,

00:00:56.380 and it has fallen on you to deal with it.

00:00:58.420 Absolutely.

00:00:58.880 What we see in Portland, as I've talked about,

00:01:01.340 probably over the last several weeks,

00:01:02.680 is very different than what we see anywhere else in the country.

00:01:05.860 We have a community that has fostered an environment of violence in Portland.

00:01:11.320 This goes back to 2018, where we had an ICE facility,

00:01:14.120 a DHS facility, set siege to for about 28 days.

00:01:17.240 And for 28 days, the local law enforcement

00:01:19.480 didn't do anything to help our employees.

00:01:21.660 So, there's a history there.

00:01:22.920 I remember, right, the mayor, Ted Wheeler,

00:01:25.180 who's also the commissioner of police,

00:01:27.020 he announced at the time,

00:01:29.240 when the ICE facility was under assault,

00:01:32.120 that the police wouldn't protect it, is it?

00:01:33.600 That's correct.

00:01:34.320 That's correct.

00:01:35.080 And what did that mean?

00:01:35.900 So, let's go back to,

00:01:37.320 because there's a history here that sets the stage.

00:01:39.720 So, they're attacking the ICE facility.

00:01:42.720 Mayor says, police, forget it.

00:01:44.240 You don't get police protection.

00:01:45.220 So, what happened then?

00:01:46.460 So, it took about 28 days,

00:01:47.760 and we had to send in federal law enforcement officers.

00:01:50.280 We had to send in a contingent of DHS officers,

00:01:52.720 but we also had some DOJ officers,

00:01:54.420 some marshals and others that went in,

00:01:57.060 provided egress, entry and exit from that facility

00:02:02.060 to get our employees back and forth,

00:02:03.620 make sure that facility was protected,

00:02:05.880 there were weapons in the facility,

00:02:07.460 just to make sure it was secure.

00:02:09.440 And then we had those individuals.

00:02:11.480 Now, for the 2018 thing,

00:02:12.860 was there violence that happened in 2018?

00:02:14.460 There was.

00:02:14.840 There was Molotov cocktails thrown at the facility.

00:02:16.760 It was damaged.

00:02:17.380 It was vandalized.

00:02:18.220 They did not get inside, luckily,

00:02:20.480 but the outside was vandalized.

00:02:22.260 All right, so fast forward to now.

00:02:23.700 What exactly is happening in Portland?

00:02:25.960 I guess there's a federal courthouse

00:02:27.740 and a federal building, is that right?

00:02:29.180 Are there two places in particular

00:02:30.420 where the conflict is happening?

00:02:31.540 Right, so we've got about five federal facilities

00:02:33.660 in Portland.

00:02:34.760 There is the Mark Hatfield Federal Courthouse,

00:02:37.360 which is where 95% of the violence has taken place.

00:02:40.300 And that's a working courthouse.

00:02:41.360 Like, right now, there are cases going on

00:02:43.300 in the courthouse today.

00:02:44.460 There is a grand jury in the courthouse today.

00:02:46.300 And we are being told, though,

00:02:47.760 that the violent protests,

00:02:50.100 they're actually just peaceful demonstrations

00:02:52.040 that are happening at this courthouse.

00:02:53.480 What's the real story?

00:02:54.300 Well, there's both.

00:02:55.160 So what we see is we see peaceful protesting.

00:02:57.300 So then we go all the way back

00:02:58.000 to the George Floyd death,

00:02:59.140 which is really when all this started in Portland.

00:03:01.480 We see very peaceful protests every day.

00:03:04.240 So for 60 days, we see peaceful protests.

00:03:06.720 Those usually occur between 6 and 7 o'clock at night,

00:03:09.140 and they run to about 11 o'clock at night.

00:03:11.300 And then there's a small break.

00:03:12.700 And about how many people are we talking typically?

00:03:14.620 We see several hundred.

00:03:15.540 Several hundred.

00:03:16.260 Peaceful protests.

00:03:17.060 There are speeches being made.

00:03:18.380 ACLU is out there.

00:03:19.140 There's a variety of different groups out there.

00:03:21.040 That does not make the media.

00:03:23.000 Well, you know, I remember a period

00:03:24.640 during the whole Seattle, Chaz, Chud,

00:03:30.340 I couldn't keep up with the chop chop.

00:03:33.100 We've been calling it the Soviet Union,

00:03:34.620 but there are other names that have gone around.

00:03:36.260 But during that whole thing in Seattle,

00:03:38.080 I remember, in fact, I think I commented on Twitter

00:03:40.420 that Portland was quite peaceful while Seattle had this autonomous zone.

00:03:45.420 And it was like, wow, when Portland thinks you're doing a bad job in law enforcement,

00:03:50.780 you've really taken a bad turn.

00:03:52.300 And it seems after the Chaz chop whatever was disbanded, 0.92

00:03:56.900 that seems to be about the time Portland got a lot worse.

00:03:59.680 Yeah, what we saw over the course of June was progressively getting more and more violent.

00:04:05.700 We started sending federal protective service officers to that courthouse

00:04:09.240 to provide some additional support.

00:04:11.540 And what is a federal protective service officer?

00:04:14.200 What does that mean?

00:04:14.720 So FPS, federal protective service,

00:04:16.420 is a component of the Department of Homeland Security.

00:04:19.100 They secure about 9,000, almost 9,000 federal facilities,

00:04:23.360 mostly owned by GSA.

00:04:24.900 These are federal facilities.

00:04:26.400 So these are not only-

00:04:27.160 So these are law enforcement officers that are protecting federal buildings.

00:04:29.980 Yeah, so it's courthouses,

00:04:31.140 but it's also maybe your Social Security Administration is there.

00:04:33.620 It's where federal benefits are exercised in any given city, state.

00:04:38.760 They are protecting those buildings.

00:04:40.440 And they largely do that with a contract force,

00:04:42.720 but they also have federal officers.

00:04:44.620 So in Portland-

00:04:45.440 And I guess there's a long history of violence against federal buildings.

00:04:48.940 Obviously, Ted Kaczynski blowing up the federal building in Oklahoma was horrific.

00:04:54.280 And I mean, this is not a new threat.

00:04:57.180 It's not a new thing.

00:04:57.780 It's not anything at all.

00:04:58.800 And in fact, under the last administration,

00:05:01.300 Secretary Johnson, DHS secretary,

00:05:03.680 deployed federal resources to federal facilities

00:05:08.060 because of certain demonstrations.

00:05:10.400 In Baltimore, after Freddie Gray's death,

00:05:12.240 he deployed additional resources there

00:05:14.480 because there was violence directed at federal facilities.

00:05:17.380 So this is nothing new.

00:05:18.440 We do this all the time at the department.

00:05:20.540 It's only now getting certain attention.

00:05:22.160 You know, we've been told also,

00:05:24.340 and I think you've drawn a good distinction here

00:05:25.960 between the peaceful protesters

00:05:27.360 and then these violent anarchists who show up at night.

00:05:30.040 We've been told, though, this is a grassroots movement,

00:05:32.400 a sort of spontaneous uprising.

00:05:34.740 You think it's organized?

00:05:35.500 Oh, absolutely.

00:05:36.180 It's absolutely organized.

00:05:37.200 So again, we come back.

00:05:38.440 So for 60 nights in a row,

00:05:39.620 we saw between midnight and 5 a.m.

00:05:42.280 These are violent individuals, violent criminals, 0.94

00:05:44.940 violent opportunists, violent anarchists. 0.71

00:05:46.700 And how many are we talking?

00:05:48.040 Anywhere from 500 at the height to about 5,000.

00:05:52.100 Wow.

00:05:52.560 So these are 5,000 individuals that are outside of a courthouse.

00:05:55.560 We had to put up temporary fencing.

00:05:57.080 They took it down.

00:05:57.940 They lit it on fire,

00:05:58.800 and they barricaded our folks inside the courthouse.

00:06:00.940 Very, very dangerous.

00:06:02.220 So we reinforced the fencing.

00:06:03.660 It did help.

00:06:04.740 But you have violent individuals

00:06:06.320 approaching that fence line every night.

00:06:08.500 They stage in a park, a city park,

00:06:11.020 two city parks across the street.

00:06:12.400 They stage there.

00:06:13.680 They use city streets to come to that facility,

00:06:15.680 and then they will stay there for several hours

00:06:17.620 while the city police, the state police, did nothing.

00:06:20.880 Well, this brings up an important question, too,

00:06:22.940 which is a lot of the people

00:06:24.120 who are defending these anarchists

00:06:26.200 are saying that the federal government

00:06:28.700 has no right to go and arrest them

00:06:31.060 if they leave the federal property

00:06:32.800 and they go on to city property.

00:06:34.060 So again, just inaccurate information.

00:06:35.980 They just don't know what they're talking about.

00:06:37.940 I can't believe that.

00:06:39.600 No, nobody in politics would ever say something

00:06:42.180 if they didn't know what they were talking about.

00:06:43.220 So the U.S. Code passed by Congress statute

00:06:46.600 gives us the ability not only to protect our facilities,

00:06:50.280 but to investigate and arrest individuals

00:06:52.160 that we see that are damaging our facilities off property.

00:06:55.400 So this idea that you can damage a federal facility

00:06:59.240 and then step across the road and say,

00:07:00.760 sorry, you can't touch me,

00:07:02.260 it's very similar to if someone walked up

00:07:03.860 to the United States Capitol,

00:07:05.040 tried to burn the Capitol down,

00:07:06.300 and step across the street and say,

00:07:08.140 sorry, you can't touch me.

00:07:09.360 It's not how law enforcement works.

00:07:10.040 You're saying that wouldn't work?

00:07:10.860 It would not work.

00:07:12.460 No ideas anymore.

00:07:14.660 It would not work.

00:07:15.820 And that's what really we were up against

00:07:17.540 for 60 days in Portland.

00:07:18.800 So you have to hold individuals accountable.

00:07:22.380 So DHS, along with the Marshal Service,

00:07:24.140 started making arrests

00:07:25.040 because state and local law enforcement refused to.

00:07:27.720 So how much violence are we talking about?

00:07:30.680 Is this one guy taking a swing at somebody?

00:07:33.220 I mean, help people understand what actually,

00:07:36.100 you see kind of images online,

00:07:38.040 you see some fires and people pulling on fences,

00:07:41.080 but what's really going on?

00:07:42.440 I say initially, I would say the most,

00:07:45.180 I would say least violent that you would see

00:07:47.420 would be bricks being thrown at law enforcement officers.

00:07:49.940 That's the least violent.

00:07:50.680 That's the least violent.

00:07:51.640 Bricks, you see frozen water bottles,

00:07:53.700 anything that's hard, hard canned food,

00:07:56.840 you see being thrown at law enforcement officers

00:07:59.380 as they come out and try to protect the facility.

00:08:01.600 It then starts to ratchet up.

00:08:03.420 We've seen Molotov cocktails.

00:08:05.780 Officers have taken sledgehammers to the head.

00:08:08.400 We see IEDs being thrown at them.

00:08:10.420 You're saying people are hitting police officers

00:08:12.700 in the head with sledgehammers?

00:08:13.520 Yes, correct.

00:08:14.780 How many officers have been injured

00:08:16.420 during the course of Portland?

00:08:17.560 For DHS, we've had over 247 different injuries

00:08:21.200 to law enforcement officers,

00:08:22.480 about over 100-

00:08:23.720 And that's just Portland?

00:08:24.740 That's just Portland. 0.99

00:08:26.120 Holy crap. 0.98

00:08:26.900 That's just Portland.

00:08:28.580 247.

00:08:29.460 Different injuries to law enforcement officers.

00:08:31.980 About over 100 officers have individually been injured.

00:08:35.220 And Portland, by the way,

00:08:36.480 is not the only site of this violence.

00:08:38.540 We've been seeing it in other cities as well.

00:08:40.260 We see a little different violence in different cities,

00:08:42.580 whether it's Chicago, Kansas City, Albuquerque,

00:08:44.960 even Seattle.

00:08:45.880 That's more street crime.

00:08:47.240 There is some organized violence as well,

00:08:49.380 but Portland is very different than any other city.

00:08:51.720 We've seen, as I indicated,

00:08:53.400 thousands of folks every night for 60 days

00:08:55.460 come to a fence line around a federal courthouse

00:08:58.100 and want to burn it down.

00:08:59.540 There's graffiti along the courthouse.

00:09:00.500 Now, what are they doing with lasers? 0.97

00:09:01.720 I mean, that's harmless, right?

00:09:02.940 That's just a pointer, like pointing at someone?

00:09:04.600 No, not at all.

00:09:05.500 There's some pretty powerful lasers they're using.

00:09:07.520 So as the law enforcement officers

00:09:08.720 come out of the building to protect it,

00:09:10.360 they will shine the green lasers in their eyes.

00:09:12.640 And unfortunately, we have about three officers

00:09:14.420 that are going to have some probably permanent damage.

00:09:17.280 When you say permanent damage,

00:09:18.760 they're facing partial or total blindness.

00:09:21.400 We're waiting for medical to come back,

00:09:23.100 but that's what we're hearing at the moment, yes.

00:09:25.320 Okay, so it's not, I mean, I can see people thinking,

00:09:28.520 oh, you know, I play with a pointer at home

00:09:30.280 and my cat chases it.

00:09:31.420 That's not it.

00:09:33.480 That's not even close.

00:09:35.040 They are aiming real and powerful lasers

00:09:37.220 at the eyeballs of officers,

00:09:39.380 and you've got three who are seriously injured.

00:09:42.140 We do.

00:09:42.680 So we've taken corrective measures.

00:09:43.900 We've given them some eyewear that protects against that,

00:09:45.980 but this is a new tactic from these individuals

00:09:48.560 that we have first seen here in Portland.

00:09:50.380 And I guess one of the challenges is

00:09:52.380 a lot of these guys are dressed in all black.

00:09:54.740 They're wearing goggles or wearing a mask.

00:09:56.920 And so if you have someone throw a brick

00:09:59.580 and it hits an officer and he's bleeding,

00:10:01.180 you have someone point a laser and it blinds an officer,

00:10:06.240 you can't always tell who did it.

00:10:07.800 I mean, they're all dressed the same.

00:10:09.220 I mean, is that part of what they're trying to do?

00:10:10.960 Absolutely.

00:10:11.280 It's very difficult.

00:10:12.000 And they do that on purpose.

00:10:12.780 And we see tactics that they use

00:10:14.860 that are very similar to law enforcement.

00:10:16.620 They try to obscure their movements.

00:10:18.560 They do a number of different things

00:10:19.860 that make it difficult for law enforcement

00:10:21.260 to engage with them.

00:10:22.780 Now, we have our own tactics.

00:10:24.460 We are able to identify certain individuals

00:10:27.480 that are lighting fires, throwing.

00:10:29.520 We've seen barbecues being tossed over the fence

00:10:31.660 that are on fire.

00:10:33.340 Like a barbecue grill?

00:10:34.260 Yeah, like a Weber grill.

00:10:35.920 Yeah, tossed over. 0.93

00:10:37.060 Holy crap. 0.91

00:10:37.660 Do they at least put burgers and hot dogs in? 0.98

00:10:39.460 Something tells me they're not that courteous.

00:10:41.000 We see mortar-style commercial-grade...

00:10:43.080 Okay, they'd be tofu.

00:10:43.600 They wouldn't be burgers.

00:10:44.840 I mean, that really...

00:10:46.400 I got to say, in Texas, those are fighting words.

00:10:48.520 If you throw a barbecue with nothing but tofu

00:10:50.480 and veggie burgers...

00:10:51.700 It's just rude.

00:10:52.620 It's just rude.

00:10:53.200 That's the only thing.

00:10:54.520 Commercial-grade fireworks are being thrown in.

00:10:56.660 And so as those explode several inches from officers,

00:10:59.720 it can become very, very dangerous.

00:11:01.300 They get burnt.

00:11:01.820 Yeah, and this is not somebody lighting a black cat.

00:11:05.420 Like a mortar-style firework that gets shot

00:11:07.700 from across the street, inside the park,

00:11:10.640 into the facility.

00:11:12.480 Mr. Secretary, the scene that you are describing,

00:11:14.680 and I think the scene that a lot of us have seen

00:11:16.220 on television, is one that we would expect

00:11:19.060 in a foreign country, in the Middle East,

00:11:21.840 or so, in a war zone.

00:11:22.940 This is not the sort of thing we would expect

00:11:24.920 within the borders of the United States.

00:11:27.140 Absolutely.

00:11:28.020 I've been saying that for almost over a month now,

00:11:30.640 that the violence that we see in Portland,

00:11:32.460 people have to understand,

00:11:33.460 it's not a few protesters who are getting angry

00:11:36.340 and deciding to bang on a fence.

00:11:38.140 These are violent individuals that are organized.

00:11:40.560 They have supply lines.

00:11:42.040 This is an organized entity here that is doing this.

00:11:46.160 And unfortunately, despite our request,

00:11:49.260 we have state and local law enforcement,

00:11:50.820 up until recently, for 60 days,

00:11:53.160 refused to engage these folks.

00:11:54.680 So are the cops behaving differently now?

00:11:56.240 Have the politicians let them actually do their job?

00:11:59.060 They have.

00:11:59.400 Yeah, so at the middle of July, I want to say,

00:12:01.880 I placed phone calls to the mayor of Portland,

00:12:03.820 as well as to the governor of Oregon,

00:12:05.440 and I basically put any resource at the department

00:12:08.780 at their hands.

00:12:10.000 You know, for them, as they addressed the violence,

00:12:12.260 they had the full resources of the department.

00:12:14.560 Their response was, no thank you,

00:12:16.200 and please leave Portland,

00:12:17.820 which, of course, we didn't do.

00:12:19.080 And if you'd left Portland, what would have happened?

00:12:20.740 The facility would have burned. 0.73

00:12:22.140 The courthouse would have burned. 0.97

00:12:23.980 So you're saying what the mayor and governor were saying

00:12:27.180 is just abandon the federal courthouse

00:12:29.060 and let the mob burn the courthouse to the ground?

00:12:32.160 That was their request of me.

00:12:33.860 Well, you know, this ties into the same strategy

00:12:36.460 we've heard from the same people

00:12:38.460 on the international front,

00:12:40.500 which is don't enforce our border with Mexico.

00:12:44.140 Allow the border to be totally open.

00:12:46.020 Allow people to come in.

00:12:47.480 And DHS has been a particular object of those criticisms.

00:12:51.620 What is DHS?

00:12:52.320 It's a pretty new agency.

00:12:54.160 What all falls within the umbrella of DHS?

00:12:56.860 So we have about 240,000 employees across the enterprise.

00:13:00.880 Are you all the biggest civilian agency?

00:13:02.620 So other than DOD?

00:13:03.840 I believe the Veterans Administration

00:13:05.340 is a little bit bigger.

00:13:06.060 Oh, interesting.

00:13:06.560 Okay.

00:13:06.740 Just from a pure size standpoint.

00:13:09.820 So within the department,

00:13:11.480 we do everything from aviation security.

00:13:13.940 So the commercial checkpoint security

00:13:16.960 that you see as you get on commercial aircraft.

00:13:19.240 We do that.

00:13:19.480 So TSA.

00:13:20.020 TSA.

00:13:20.360 So TSA reports to you.

00:13:21.920 TSA, Customs and Border Protection.

00:13:23.920 So when we talk about border security,

00:13:25.360 they're certainly along that border.

00:13:27.200 You know, when they do the groping at the stands,

00:13:31.700 it'd be really good if they could, like,

00:13:33.180 just do the lower back a little more. 0.71

00:13:35.140 Is that an official request?

00:13:36.720 Yeah.

00:13:37.100 I mean, I'm like, look, if you're going to get it,

00:13:38.920 I've got a sore muscle down there.

00:13:40.640 Well, they have to continue to do their job.

00:13:43.620 I say thank you to them every time.

00:13:45.520 I'm a diplomatic answer.

00:13:46.980 As long as we don't have any incidents in the skies,

00:13:49.360 I'm happy.

00:13:50.760 Customs and Border Protection.

00:13:51.920 ICE, Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

00:13:54.300 Yeah.

00:13:54.500 It's also inside the department, USCIS.

00:13:56.740 All right.

00:13:56.960 So what's the difference between Customs and Border Protection and ICE?

00:13:59.620 Sure.

00:14:00.340 CBP, Customs and Border Protection,

00:14:01.780 mainly protecting our border.

00:14:03.720 Southwest border, northern border, border security.

00:14:06.740 So those are the guys in green.

00:14:08.480 They're out there in the Rio Grande.

00:14:10.520 Absolutely.

00:14:11.100 They're not only the men and women in green,

00:14:12.820 but they're also in blue.

00:14:13.700 So as you come to a port of entry and you're legally coming to the U.S.,

00:14:17.420 you're going to have to go through several officers and go through a process.

00:14:21.020 So they do not only legal but illegal entry into the U.S. 0.82

00:14:24.380 Okay.

00:14:24.760 So that's CBP.

00:14:26.220 And then ICE is what?

00:14:27.320 ICE is Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

00:14:29.420 So these are the individuals.

00:14:30.860 We have both ICE, E-R-O, which is our removal operations.

00:14:34.260 So these are individuals that will go into communities, identify criminals,

00:14:38.200 identify other individuals that have no legal right to be in the U.S. and remove them.

00:14:42.980 We also have Homeland Security.

00:14:44.240 So MS-13 gang members.

00:14:46.960 You've got ICE officers going in, arresting them.

00:14:51.560 And some of these guys can be pretty violent.

00:14:53.820 Very, very dangerous.

00:14:54.660 Very dangerous.

00:14:55.200 The large majority of, I would say, targets that we get are actually from individual jails and courthouses.

00:15:03.600 So it's individuals that probably have gotten picked up on another criminal charge

00:15:08.260 come to find out they're illegally here in the U.S.

00:15:11.760 We would then go in, ascertain them, and then start removing proceedings.

00:15:17.420 And there are now widespread calls among one political party to abolish that entire enforcement agency.

00:15:24.380 It's not just the removal operations.

00:15:26.100 We have Homeland Security Investigations, which does transnational criminal organizations, drug trafficking.

00:15:31.060 They do a variety of national security missions that are part of ICE.

00:15:34.320 So part of what they want to abolish are criminal investigators protecting communities from a variety of threats.

00:15:41.740 So I think it's an interesting arc of development because a couple of years ago, the Democrats seized upon abolish ICE.

00:15:48.980 I mean, it started with AOC.

00:15:50.200 It started off with a few kind of fringe characters, and then it expanded.

00:15:54.160 And some of what you guys faced in Portland with Ted Wheeler refusing to protect the ICE facilities

00:16:00.340 was a manifestation back then that they were saying, get rid of ICE.

00:16:06.660 That's now transmogrified into abolish all police, that it's not just ICE,

00:16:11.860 but it's anyone with a badge and a gun is apparently now the bad guy.

00:16:18.840 So Nancy Pelosi has called your officers stormtroopers.

00:16:23.900 What do you make of that?

00:16:25.620 Well, she's not only called them stormtroopers.

00:16:28.260 I heard them being referred to as the Gestapo or thugs as well.

00:16:32.140 Completely irresponsible comments.

00:16:33.860 I've called on each of those members of Congress that have said those terms to apologize to the men and women of DHS.

00:16:40.120 These are civil law enforcement officers.

00:16:42.460 Get up every day, put on a badge, put on a uniform, protect their communities.

00:16:45.740 So these are cops.

00:16:46.400 They're federal cops, but they're law enforcement officers protecting us.

00:16:50.420 Absolutely.

00:16:51.040 They go to training.

00:16:52.700 They have procedures that they follow.

00:16:54.960 They have authorities that they follow.

00:16:56.260 And to call them stormtroopers, to invoke that kind of imagery, is just shameful.

00:17:01.640 And for the record, is an arrest a kidnapping?

00:17:05.280 Because that's the language they're saying is apparently you're now kidnappers.

00:17:08.320 Yeah.

00:17:08.480 So it's, again, I think it's individuals that don't understand what our mission is.

00:17:13.260 So there in Portland, because you did not have state or you didn't have local law enforcement making arrests.

00:17:19.040 So night after night after night, hundreds of individuals are committing criminal acts with no consequence.

00:17:24.620 And DHS said, well, you can't have that.

00:17:27.280 That's not how law enforcement works.

00:17:29.080 So we have the ability to go out and arrest individuals.

00:17:31.460 And we started doing that within a two to three block radius of the courthouse.

00:17:35.140 And then that's when, you know, a number of individuals said, well, how can you do that?

00:17:38.820 How can you arrest individuals?

00:17:40.560 Well, they are committing criminal acts.

00:17:42.500 That's how you arrest individuals.

00:17:44.040 You're making this point about Nancy Pelosi and a lot of other Democrats in the House.

00:17:48.920 It's an election year.

00:17:50.260 They're heightening up the rhetoric.

00:17:51.500 They're going after abolish ICE, abolish law enforcement.

00:17:53.680 But there's another very hot political issue that they're also talking about, which is immigration, illegal immigration, the border.

00:18:01.740 This was a central plank when President Trump was running for office.

00:18:06.100 What's the situation down there on the border wall, on enforcement, on making sure our country is secure?

00:18:11.820 Is there a wall?

00:18:13.340 Absolutely.

00:18:14.080 Absolutely.

00:18:14.940 We just eclipsed about 265 miles of the new border wall system under President Trump.

00:18:19.600 So there was a wall to begin with.

00:18:21.380 We had several hundred miles of wall initially, and we built about 200 more.

00:18:27.340 Is that right?

00:18:27.580 I would say initially as we came in, we had different forms of fencing, some of it about six feet tall, some of it maybe up to eight feet tall, maybe.

00:18:36.020 Easily scalable, easily defeated, no impedance and denial there.

00:18:40.240 Any type of barrier, what you want for our Border Patrol, the men and women in green on the border,

00:18:45.200 they want something that's going to stop an individual or at least to slow them down.

00:18:49.540 So that's the impedance and denial aspect of coming into the country illegally.

00:18:54.260 The bigger the barrier, the more effective the barrier, the easier it is for them to do their job.

00:18:58.400 What we saw with six-foot high wall, you could scale it, you could be over, disappear.

00:19:04.100 Very difficult for Border Patrol to do their job.

00:19:06.680 The new border wall system that we're building in many cases is 30 feet high.

00:19:10.000 It has ground sensors.

00:19:11.000 It has lighting.

00:19:11.820 It has radar.

00:19:12.800 It has a number of things that if you can defeat it, very difficult to, if you can defeat it,

00:19:18.180 you have Border Patrol waiting on you as you get to the other side of that border wall system.

00:19:23.120 All right.

00:19:23.320 So I've got to tell a story, Michael.

00:19:24.460 I spent a lot of time with CBP in Texas.

00:19:27.020 They're incredible men and women.

00:19:28.620 And several years ago, I joined them down in Rio Grande Valley for their midnight muster

00:19:36.040 and then went out on midnight patrol with them, which is very cool.

00:19:39.040 And so we're going out, and they arrested a number of people.

00:19:42.380 And so they go into this one stash house that's, oh, probably 200 yards in from the river.

00:19:47.640 Yeah.

00:19:48.060 And they go in and kick the door down, and there are a bunch of people there that they're apprehending.

00:19:55.080 And there's some pretty rough-looking characters coming out of this stash house.

00:19:59.620 Including one guy, I remember, who was big.

00:20:03.040 He was probably 260, 280 pounds, was wearing sort of a raggedy undershirt covered with tats.

00:20:10.400 I mean, tats everywhere.

00:20:12.400 And the agents kept saying, Senator, Senator, hey, come over here, Senator.

00:20:15.940 Come look at this, Senator.

00:20:16.860 No, I'll be back here, thanks.

00:20:17.840 No, don't worry.

00:20:18.000 And I'm like, ixnay on the editor's stay.

00:20:20.880 Just call me Bob, guys.

00:20:23.020 Like, what?

00:20:24.340 That is, you know, I think that's probably typical, though.

00:20:27.680 We're dealing with, to use the president's term, tough hombres down here.

00:20:32.020 And I don't know, to hear the rhetoric coming from the left right now, it's as though these are the most wonderful people in the world.

00:20:37.780 And the villains are the law enforcement officers who are trying to arrest them.

00:20:41.300 It's disgraceful, really.

00:20:43.560 Again, we have, DHS is the largest law enforcement agency in the country.

00:20:48.360 We have over 100,000 law enforcement officers in the department doing their job every day, on the border every day.

00:20:54.160 They're building that wall.

00:20:55.340 They're stopping individuals from crossing into the country illegally.

00:20:58.020 And I would say, in a pandemic environment, stopping individuals crossing into the country illegally takes on a more important mission.

00:21:06.840 Of course.

00:21:07.080 We're not just stopping immigration violators.

00:21:09.840 We're stopping individuals that perhaps could have COVID-19, could be coming into the U.S. and infecting American citizens.

00:21:17.060 And we're told that we're not allowed to leave our homes in many cases, but it's perfectly fine to have foreign nationals, who obviously are not being tested, cross that border illegally. 1.00

00:21:24.920 But actually, Senator, you raised this question for me because your job is to make the laws.

00:21:29.780 Yep.

00:21:30.620 There are, your job is to enforce the laws, and there are regulations that you use as well.

00:21:35.140 And your job is to make fun of the laws.

00:21:36.140 And my job is entirely to make fun of the laws.

00:21:38.440 But it occurs to me, if we're now four years into an administration, we were told big, beautiful wall, we know that people want to build the wall.

00:21:47.220 And yet, I think a lot of people listening will say, only 200 or 250 miles of wall.

00:21:52.520 What's the holdup been?

00:21:53.740 It strikes me, there are other people who make the laws as well, outside of our perhaps constitutional system.

00:21:59.880 Yeah, so we are not only stymied by congressional inaction, you know, the president's been very clear about a border wall system.

00:22:08.920 We've had to fine that funding internally to the administration over the last several years as Congress, certain members of Congress, I would say, are not supportive of that.

00:22:17.100 But we also have courts, and we have lawsuits that we have to deal with.

00:22:21.060 But again, as far as building the border wall system, we're going to reach 300 miles by the end of August.

00:22:27.720 So we're here in early August.

00:22:29.340 They built 200 miles of new wall.

00:22:31.940 We've got another 100 miles coming in the next month or so.

00:22:35.600 Right.

00:22:36.700 And I think is the goal by the end of the year 450 miles?

00:22:40.200 450 to 500, right.

00:22:41.660 Right.

00:22:42.060 And that's a new wall or replacing previous barriers?

00:22:46.120 So it's a great, you know, this is what the other side, you know, our opponents usually say is you're not actually building any new wall.

00:22:52.620 So in many cases, we are tearing down a five to six foot fence and putting up a 30 foot wall.

00:23:00.600 And in any case, that is a new wall.

00:23:02.920 It's very much like if you were to tell you another story of this.

00:23:05.820 It's just on the five to six foot fence back in 2016, presidential race, we're down in Arizona on the border.

00:23:12.200 And, you know, I've got a whole bevy of reporters following me.

00:23:16.540 And we're doing a we're doing something right on the border wall.

00:23:20.420 And it's got this this little sort of vehicle barrier.

00:23:25.520 The Normandy barriers.

00:23:26.540 The Normandy barriers.

00:23:27.160 Yeah, that's exactly.

00:23:28.020 It looks like the sort of crisscross metal planks.

00:23:33.840 And and the reporters are there and we've got a bunch of sheriffs and folks who are down there with us.

00:23:39.580 And a bunch of the reporters, they want to get a better camera shot.

00:23:42.560 So they climb over the barrier to shoot north.

00:23:45.240 And I'm like, OK, so you just crossed into Mexico illegally.

00:23:49.980 And that's how much little the barrier is. 1.00

00:23:52.240 You just hop over the damn thing. 0.99

00:23:53.700 OK, I got a better shot here. 0.99

00:23:54.940 Maybe we need something more substantial, given that you're like, I think, currently an illegal immigrant in the country of Mexico.

00:24:02.560 They unwittingly, I think, proved your point on the border.

00:24:05.780 And it's the point we're all making.

00:24:07.280 And yet you're being stymied left and right on building that wall.

00:24:11.300 But again, we have found ways to do that.

00:24:13.760 We have enough funding.

00:24:14.900 We're in a good place.

00:24:15.900 We're on a good glide path.

00:24:17.380 So, again, as the senator mentioned, about 450 to 500 miles by the end of this calendar year.

00:24:22.560 And that's what the operators want.

00:24:24.040 They want that effective border wall system.

00:24:26.360 It's not everywhere on the border.

00:24:27.740 We can't put it everywhere.

00:24:28.880 But we can put it in the places that need it most so that patrol, so officers can patrol other hard-hit areas as well.

00:24:35.720 Well, even beyond the operators, I think it's what the American people want.

00:24:38.040 Absolutely.

00:24:38.580 They've made that point time and again.

00:24:39.860 Let me make a point also that's interesting and would surprise you.

00:24:43.640 The guys working for Chad, the CBP guys on the border, they need a lot more technology.

00:24:50.420 Yes.

00:24:50.560 So, I've been out with them on their boats on the river.

00:24:54.460 I've been up in their helicopters, which are old.

00:24:58.500 Some of the helicopters are old Hueys, like, you know, out of, like, watching, you know, MASH growing up, which, by the way, they keep the doors open on the side.

00:25:07.100 And, you know, they strap you in.

00:25:09.300 And I think the helicopter pilots enjoy doing turns where you're going forward and you're looking at this one little round desk that is holding your body.

00:25:16.880 And if it comes loose, you're falling 200 feet down into the ground.

00:25:21.060 And you're trying to, like, yeah, this doesn't bother me at all.

00:25:23.740 I am urinating my pants right now.

00:25:25.580 But, no, I'm not.

00:25:26.640 How are you going back there, Senator?

00:25:28.040 Yeah, they do enjoy.

00:25:30.060 I would say they do that with the acting secretary as well.

00:25:32.280 I have no doubt.

00:25:34.320 But what's interesting, so Texas DPS, Department of Public Safety, I've been up.

00:25:39.680 Texas has, for example, it's an $8 million plane.

00:25:42.360 It's an amazing plane that I've been up in.

00:25:44.820 And it flies along the border and it has heat imagery where they can look like a mile or two away on the other side of the border.

00:25:52.980 And you'll see, and we'd look at the screen and be like, they'd be like, all right, there's the coyote there.

00:25:58.360 You can see him hiding in the brush.

00:25:59.500 And you can see four or five people that he's getting ready to send across.

00:26:03.200 And what Texas DPS will do is call CBP and say, all right, there are five guys right here that are preparing to cross.

00:26:10.720 And you can see the CBP vans, like, pulling up on the other side, waiting to apprehend them when they come.

00:26:17.120 The amazing thing, though, is the state has better technology than the feds, which is messed up.

00:26:22.020 Y'all should have adequate technology.

00:26:25.360 And it's not your fault.

00:26:26.340 It's Congress's fault.

00:26:27.140 We haven't given it, but it's kind of startling.

00:26:31.160 You don't expect the state equipment to be better than the federal equipment.

00:26:35.360 Well, some of our best partners are obviously Texas DPS as well as in Arizona and other places.

00:26:40.520 So we rely on our partners to do our job.

00:26:43.180 But as you indicated, we do not have an unlimited budget.

00:26:45.380 So there are certain – we have a number of air assets as well that we send up along that border to patrol that.

00:26:51.620 But we can always use new and better equipment.

00:26:54.760 Mr. Secretary, we want to be respectful of your time.

00:26:56.980 But before we go, I think a lot of Americans looking around don't feel great about how things are going.

00:27:03.360 You know, they see buildings on fire.

00:27:05.240 They see this unrest, especially in Portland.

00:27:06.920 They see problems at the border.

00:27:08.940 What's the outlook?

00:27:09.720 Give it to us straight.

00:27:10.680 You know, we don't want false hope.

00:27:11.780 But how are things looking as we now move toward the end of the year?

00:27:15.220 Well, I would say what we've seen over the past month, and we've talked a little bit about here,

00:27:19.380 when we talk about defund the police or you start attacking law enforcement,

00:27:22.760 I think what we are seeing around the country is the result of that.

00:27:26.320 What you have are criminals. 0.78

00:27:28.360 At their very heart, they are violent opportunists.

00:27:30.860 And they see an opportunity to exploit their street, their corner of the world,

00:27:35.380 because they know the police are under a microscope.

00:27:38.020 Yeah.

00:27:38.480 And so I think that's very dangerous.

00:27:40.360 What the president, what the administration has been very upfront about is we're not going to let this continue.

00:27:45.100 So whether it's through Operation Legend, which is surging federal resources in to deal with some of this violent crime,

00:27:51.560 we're going to continue to surge federal resources in.

00:27:53.820 We're going to continue to protect federal property.

00:27:56.000 We see it almost, you know, we get threat and intelligence every weekend.

00:27:59.620 Certain federal properties around the country are being targeted by these groups.

00:28:03.180 We surge resources into those communities to make sure that those properties are protected.

00:28:07.780 Particularly when we talk about a courthouse, a seat of justice in a city has to be protected.

00:28:13.060 That's what this country is about.

00:28:14.600 And DHS is going to be on the front lines protecting those for years to come.

00:28:17.220 All right.

00:28:17.440 Totally different question to wrap up.

00:28:20.420 How do you get to be Secretary of Homeland Security?

00:28:23.280 Like you're a cabinet member.

00:28:24.580 You're one of the top cops in the country.

00:28:26.640 Like what, you know, when you were a kid, is this what you dreamed of doing?

00:28:30.500 How did you get here?

00:28:31.480 Yeah.

00:28:31.880 It's a little different.

00:28:33.000 I actually dreamed of joining the military and for whatever reason didn't happen.

00:28:36.720 I grew up in Texas, went to school in Dallas, had the opportunity to come to D.C.

00:28:40.720 And shortly after 9-11, joined DHS.

00:28:44.160 9-11 for me, I was on Capitol Hill, rushed out of the buildings.

00:28:48.300 It was a significant factor in my life.

00:28:50.800 So this was basically right when DHS was formed.

00:28:52.980 Yeah.

00:28:53.160 This was back in 2001.

00:28:54.380 Yeah.

00:28:55.060 2002.

00:28:55.420 So it was a formidable event in my life and really changed my outlook.

00:29:01.180 So I jumped in, started serving at DHS, took a break during the Obama administration, and

00:29:08.180 then came back in and held a variety of different positions here in the department.

00:29:13.320 I think the thing that, you know, a lot of us here in the department, we believe in this

00:29:17.160 mission.

00:29:17.820 We believe in what the department does and how it was created after 9-11.

00:29:21.240 It's a counterterrorism mission, but it has a number of other missions, some of which

00:29:25.140 we talked about that I think the vast majority of Americans just don't know about.

00:29:28.500 Federal Protective Service, a lot of our immigration enforcement, and a lot of other

00:29:32.320 things that we are doing here.

00:29:33.720 So it's a big department, 240,000 folks, 22 different agencies that came in.

00:29:38.540 So what do you do for fun?

00:29:40.780 I work.

00:29:42.740 But, you know, when I can, I try to run a little bit and bike a little bit.

00:29:46.300 Well, those hobbies notwithstanding, I think you're probably working a lot more of these

00:29:51.200 Well, and I do need to clarify it and just say, Chad, thank you for being here.

00:29:55.360 So as we are here, your basement is flooding.

00:29:59.280 It is.

00:30:00.480 So there's a tropical storm.

00:30:02.140 It's raining like crazy.

00:30:03.220 You're in D.C.

00:30:03.980 Your basement's flooding.

00:30:05.800 And your wife has called you saying, hey, our basement's flooding.

00:30:08.280 And you said, I got to do a podcast.

00:30:10.400 Now, I'm just going to say, I'm sorry.

00:30:12.760 I know you're sleeping on the couch tonight.

00:30:14.700 It's my fault.

00:30:15.780 Blame it on me.

00:30:16.660 But you're a great American.

00:30:18.760 And please get home quickly and help your wife.

00:30:21.180 Thank you.

00:30:21.540 I appreciate that.

00:30:22.040 Or it won't be the couch.

00:30:23.120 It'll be the doghouse.

00:30:23.740 It's not going to be good.

00:30:24.620 We need to get you back to the basement and, more importantly, to the mission.

00:30:28.040 Thank you.

00:30:28.320 Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for being here.

00:30:30.660 Senator, I'll see you next time.

00:30:32.520 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

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Verdict with Ted Cruz - August 07, 2020

Bad Hombres ft. DHS Secretary Chad Wolf

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