Verdict with Ted Cruz - Big Stanford WIN for Free Speech, plus guest Dave McCormick on How We Beat China

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.

00:00:05.240 Welcome.

00:00:05.920 It is Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you.

00:00:10.120 And Senator, we've got a fun podcast for everybody.

00:00:13.320 We're going to have a guest tonight, and that is going to be Dave McCormick.

00:00:18.400 He has got a new book out, Superpower in Peril, A Battle Plan to Renew America.

00:00:23.960 He's going to join us in a moment to talk about this.

00:00:27.060 And the timeliness of this book is spot on dealing with China right now.

00:00:30.520 But before we get to that, we've got a victory to celebrate.

00:00:34.820 You got a letter back about a previous podcast that we did exposing a federal judge that was

00:00:43.360 shut down at one of the Ivy League schools.

00:00:45.940 I'll let you take it from there on this victory lap.

00:00:49.580 Well, sure.

00:00:50.040 No, this is yet another victory.

00:00:51.380 It's been a good week.

00:00:52.180 We keep having big, big wins.

00:00:54.040 This, of course, concerns Stanford Law School and something we've talked about at length on

00:00:59.420 the podcast, which is Judge Kyle Duncan went out to Stanford Law School.

00:01:03.500 He was speaking there, was invited by the Federalist Society, and a group of left-wing

00:01:07.880 activists showed up there.

00:01:09.180 They protested there.

00:01:10.320 They screamed at him.

00:01:11.300 They cursed at him. 0.91

00:01:12.520 They made sexually profane attacks at him.

00:01:16.780 They shouted him down.

00:01:17.880 They prevented him from giving his speech.

00:01:20.000 It was outrageous.

00:01:21.020 It then became even worse, because he asked quite reasonably, is there anyone from the

00:01:26.340 administration here?

00:01:27.960 And the dean for DEI, for Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, stepped forward, and he, for

00:01:33.700 a moment, thought, oh, good, there's an adult in the room who will actually stop them from

00:01:38.220 shouting me down.

00:01:39.540 Well, no, it turned out the dean had a prepared screed, six minutes that she read from, where

00:01:47.020 she sided with the protesters, she denounced the judge, she said how painful his very existence

00:01:53.400 was.

00:01:53.960 She kept saying her odd phrase was, is the juice worse the squeeze?

00:01:58.660 In other words, is it worth it to let you speak because our sensitive natures will be

00:02:04.400 troubled?

00:02:05.460 It was outrageous.

00:02:06.560 We talked about it at length.

00:02:09.000 In response, I did several things.

00:02:11.160 One of the things I did is I sent a letter to the Texas State Bar, urging the Texas State

00:02:15.840 Bar to inquire of every graduate of Stanford for the next three years whether they participated

00:02:21.000 in screaming and harassing and shouting down and cursing at the federal judge, because to

00:02:25.840 be a member of the bar, the bar has to make a determination that you have the character

00:02:29.260 and fitness to do so, and if you don't know how to deal with a federal judge without screaming

00:02:34.180 and cursing at him, you are not, in my view, fit to be a member of the bar.

00:02:39.040 A second letter I sent was to Stanford Law School, and Stanford Law School has a free speech

00:02:45.120 policy.

00:02:46.280 The policy on the face of it is quite good.

00:02:48.220 It says that you have a right to free speech, that speakers that come to Stanford have a

00:02:52.280 right to be heard, that the people who want to hear the speakers have a right to hear what

00:02:55.760 they have to say, and that students don't have a right to shout them down.

00:02:59.500 And I asked Stanford, I said, number one, what are you going to do concerning the specific

00:03:05.320 students who violated this policy?

00:03:07.240 Is there going to be any discipline?

00:03:08.260 And number two, what are you going to do with this dean who defied Stanford's policy and

00:03:17.020 sided with the aggressive protesters rather than the right of the speaker, the federal

00:03:23.800 judge, to give his remarks?

00:03:26.060 Well, we got a response back from Stanford Law School on March 22nd.

00:03:30.520 March 22nd happens to be my dad's 84th birthday, and so I thought it was a great birthday present

00:03:36.880 because much to my astonishment, I'm actually going to say something nice about Stanford

00:03:41.220 Law School.

00:03:42.380 It is a letter from the president of Stanford University and a letter from the dean of Stanford

00:03:46.740 Law School, a woman named Jenny Martinez, who actually I went to law school with. 1.00

00:03:50.800 I know Jenny.

00:03:51.320 She was a year behind me, I think, in law school.

00:03:53.660 She's now the dean of the Stanford Law School, and their letter broke the news, number one,

00:04:01.740 that the dean has been suspended.

00:04:04.080 And this is a big deal.

00:04:05.460 I asked specifically about the dean, and I'm going to quote from the letter.

00:04:08.760 The response is, Associate Dean Therrin Steinbach is currently on leave.

00:04:14.600 Generally speaking, the university does not comment publicly on pending personnel matters.

00:04:19.220 That's a big deal for a so-called elite law school like Stanford Law School to take their

00:04:27.200 high priestess of diversity and put her on leave for stifling free speech. 1.00

00:04:33.640 Now, mind you, she completely defied the university policy, but in today's left-wing woke culture, 1.00

00:04:41.680 it is remarkable, and I'm going to say Stanford is to be commended for holding its deans to the

00:04:47.960 standard of following school policy.

00:04:49.860 And then, secondly, with regard to the students, what Stanford said in response is they said

00:04:56.500 they're not going to discipline the individual students.

00:04:58.760 I was disappointed at that.

00:05:00.320 But their reasoning is they said, because we had an administrator there, a dean, who refused

00:05:07.100 to follow our own policy, so we're not going to hold the students responsible.

00:05:10.820 I don't entirely agree with that, but it wasn't a crazy thing they said.

00:05:14.120 But here's what also they said.

00:05:15.380 In summary, the university is taking the following steps to address these issues in the near term.

00:05:21.440 One, staff will receive additional training on the role of any administrator's president

00:05:26.080 events to ensure that university rules on disruption of events will be followed.

00:05:31.060 Two, we will also adopt a more explicit policy with clear protocols for dealing with disruptions

00:05:36.780 that will better protect the rights of speakers and also those who wish to exercise their right

00:05:41.200 to protest within permissible bounds.

00:05:44.000 This will bring greater clarity and certainty about future enforcement of the policy, including

00:05:48.360 through disciplinary sanctions as appropriate.

00:05:51.580 Three, currently enrolled law students will attend a mandatory half-day session on the topic

00:05:59.660 of freedom of speech and the norms of the legal profession.

00:06:03.420 And four, a committee will work during the spring quarter to hear feedback from the faculty,

00:06:13.860 students, and members of the bar, including our alumni, and make further recommendations

00:06:17.580 on the steps that the law school should take.

00:06:20.400 This is a big deal.

00:06:21.960 It's a big victory.

00:06:23.120 The fact that these woke, angry leftists are going to be required from the school to learn

00:06:29.740 about free speech, to learn, look, if you're training to be a member of the bar and you

00:06:35.320 want to appear before a federal judge, you may disagree with the federal judge, you may

00:06:38.900 hate the federal judge, you may think the federal judge's rulings are wrong in every respect,

00:06:44.300 but if you stand up and start yelling and screaming and cursing at the federal judge, you better

00:06:48.700 have brought a toothbrush because you are going to jail and you're going to be held in contempt of

00:06:52.220 court, and I'm going to commend Stanford.

00:06:55.360 What happened there was disgraceful, but their response candidly surprised me, and it gives

00:07:03.720 some degree of hope that free speech is possible and that maybe, maybe, maybe the pendulum

00:07:12.780 of the woke schools may be starting to swing back the other direction.

00:07:16.400 Especially since we've seen so many different speeches be stifled or canceled at universities

00:07:25.240 over the last couple of years, especially conservative speakers.

00:07:28.700 Let's just be clear about that.

00:07:30.420 This is a good moment for free speech, as you described it, and it's a moment that we should

00:07:36.080 all celebrate.

00:07:37.260 I want to get into this other issue.

00:07:39.380 You have a good friend with you tonight who's got a new book that is out right now.

00:07:45.280 You should get your hands on this book, especially with what we're dealing with with China right 1.00

00:07:50.760 now.

00:07:51.000 Dave McCormick's new book is out, Superpower in Peril, A Battle Plan to Renew America.

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00:09:19.020 All right, Senator, this is a very important moment, I think, in our country's history,

00:09:25.260 specifically when it comes to China.

00:09:27.520 We're seeing this unnatural alliance that is taking place right now, China, Russia getting 0.95

00:09:33.340 together.

00:09:34.160 Dave McCormick is with you tonight as well.

00:09:36.480 He's got this new book out.

00:09:38.060 The timing couldn't have been better.

00:09:40.100 Dave, welcome to Verdict, first of all, and you've got to be excited to see not only your

00:09:44.820 book come out, but also the timing of it with what's happening right now with China.

00:09:49.880 Hey, Ben.

00:09:50.300 Thanks so much for having me, and Senator, thanks for having me on today.

00:09:54.700 Yeah, the timing couldn't be perfect.

00:09:57.100 It couldn't be more perfect, rather.

00:09:59.420 We're at a tipping point here.

00:10:01.100 America's in decline, and we see that decline within, in terms of our economic situation,

00:10:08.960 our national security capability, and spiritually, what's going on in the country in terms of

00:10:13.320 progressive ideology, chipping away at American strength and some fundamentals of America.

00:10:19.020 But at the very same time, we see this huge existential challenge from China, and it's 1.00

00:10:25.520 getting worse by the day.

00:10:27.140 In the last couple of weeks, there was an article in the Wall Street Journal that cited

00:10:31.880 a study by an Australian think tank that identified 44 technologies that are critical for economic

00:10:38.620 growth and national security.

00:10:39.860 The Chinese were in the lead in 37 of the 44, according to this Australian think tank.

00:10:47.700 And more than the technological capability, China is pursuing a strategy to displace America 0.97

00:10:54.680 as the superpower.

00:10:56.060 And that's what this book is about, Superpower in Peril, is that our status in the world,

00:11:00.940 our leadership at home and our status in the world is in question.

00:11:04.020 And you only have to look at the news this week, where in the very same week, you saw

00:11:09.800 the Chinese brokering a deal between Saudi Arabia and Iran, and you saw China, China's 0.88

00:11:17.180 leader Xi, in Russia, in partnership with Putin, in support of Putin's aggression in Ukraine.

00:11:25.440 And if that doesn't give you evidence that China's on the move, then nothing will.

00:11:30.140 And in essence, what I say in the book is China has a plan, and we don't. 0.95

00:11:35.680 America doesn't have a plan. 0.99

00:11:36.780 And this book, Superpower in Peril, is about our plan for retaining our place in the world

00:11:41.600 and for restoring the American dream.

00:11:44.300 Well, and Ben, let me jump in here for a second, because I want to tell our listeners a little

00:11:48.460 bit about who Dave is.

00:11:50.000 Dave is a good friend of mine.

00:11:51.400 I've known Dave McCormick a long, long time.

00:11:54.380 Dave is someone who grew up in Pennsylvania, grew up actually as parents at a Christmas tree

00:11:59.680 farm.

00:12:00.640 He grew up in rural Pennsylvania.

00:12:02.960 He was a jock.

00:12:04.800 He was all-state in wrestling.

00:12:07.060 He was all-state in football.

00:12:09.480 He ended up going to West Point.

00:12:11.640 At West Point, he was captain of the wrestling team.

00:12:14.900 He became an army ranger.

00:12:16.260 He was a combat veteran.

00:12:17.420 He defended our nation.

00:12:18.680 He came back to Pennsylvania.

00:12:21.360 He became incredibly successful, was a CEO of a very large company in Pittsburgh, created

00:12:28.440 over 1,000 jobs in Pittsburgh.

00:12:31.320 He went to serve in the administration.

00:12:33.800 He was a senior official in the Bush administration, the Treasury Department, dealing with China,

00:12:39.440 taking on China directly.

00:12:42.100 He became the CEO of one of the largest hedge funds in the world, was incredibly successful

00:12:47.600 as a financial leader.

00:12:49.920 When Donald Trump was president, Donald Trump wanted Dave to come in as the deputy secretary

00:12:55.040 of defense.

00:12:55.700 He ended up not doing that, but Trump very much wanted him to do that.

00:12:59.260 His wife, who's another dear friend, Dina Powell, was Donald Trump's deputy national security

00:13:04.480 advisor.

00:13:04.960 And she's someone Heidi and I have known for 24 years now.

00:13:10.360 Dave, as you'll recall, just ran for Senate in the state of Pennsylvania, and he put on

00:13:16.680 a heck of a campaign.

00:13:17.840 I endorsed Dave the very first week he was in the campaign.

00:13:21.080 I campaigned all over the state of Pennsylvania with him.

00:13:23.880 We did rallies all over the state.

00:13:26.780 Unfortunately, in that race, Donald Trump ended up endorsing Dr. Oz.

00:13:33.480 I wish he had not.

00:13:34.280 I think that was a mistake.

00:13:35.920 At the end of the day, Dave lost the primary.

00:13:38.880 I think it was 900 and how many votes?

00:13:42.220 915 votes of 1.4 million cast.

00:13:45.400 I'm sure that's a number you'll forget, right?

00:13:47.980 That's etched in my brain, Ben.

00:13:50.060 So I have to admit, for me, the number is 900-ish.

00:13:55.800 For Dave, 915 is acutely carved into his consciousness.

00:14:01.060 Yeah, as long as you had under that and the number of friends in your phone, then it's

00:14:05.780 not your fault, okay?

00:14:07.220 But if it's above that in your phone, it's totally your fault.

00:14:10.480 Exactly.

00:14:11.340 But I will say the consequences are very real.

00:14:13.740 I am absolutely certain, had Dave gotten 916 votes more in the primary, had he been the

00:14:22.560 nominee, he would have won the general election.

00:14:24.580 He would have been the new Republican senator from the state of Pennsylvania.

00:14:29.060 And the consequence of that, instead of a 51-49 Democrat Senate, we would have a 50-50

00:14:34.100 Senate.

00:14:34.480 What that would mean is Democrats on every committee would have equal representation.

00:14:39.900 Right now, they have a majority on every committee.

00:14:41.980 It means Democrats can issue subpoenas.

00:14:43.840 It means they have control to accelerate their agenda through the Senate.

00:14:48.740 And it was heartbreaking.

00:14:50.240 I will also say, and I'm not going to press Dave to make an announcement, but I'm going

00:14:53.320 to be quite candid.

00:14:54.420 I hope that he's running again in 2024.

00:14:57.280 I think he'll make a hell of a senator, and I was proud to stand with him.

00:15:00.500 But this book he wrote is a book he'd actually been working on before he ran for Senate, and

00:15:06.060 he suddenly found himself out on the campaign trail shaking hands and kissing babies, and

00:15:10.560 he kind of put the book on hold.

00:15:12.000 And then when the campaign was over, he went back to the book and finished it and turned

00:15:15.100 it around.

00:15:15.960 And I say all of that to say, when Dave writes, A, about China, he does so from first-hand

00:15:22.860 experience having dealt with China.

00:15:25.220 But B, when he writes about the economy and America's economic situation, he does so

00:15:30.500 as an incredibly successful business leader who has created jobs, who's worked at the

00:15:36.440 highest levels of government.

00:15:38.320 And so he's thinking seriously about how America wins this battle with China.

00:15:44.580 I believe China is the single greatest geopolitical threat facing the United States for the next 0.97

00:15:49.640 hundred years.

00:15:51.060 And Dave's thinking seriously about how we win that battle.

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00:16:23.680 Dave, you had an interesting op-ed that obviously connected to your book launch that was at Fox

00:16:32.680 News, and it says, China has a plan to lead the world. 0.52

00:16:36.000 What's ours?

00:16:37.160 The scary part is that may be one of the most accurate op-ed headlines I've seen in a long

00:16:43.720 time because I genuinely don't know what America's plan is to lead the world under the Biden team.

00:16:49.600 You look at just how out of touch this White House is, they're having the cast of Ted Lasso

00:16:55.940 come in on the day that China and Russia are having very serious meetings about how they're

00:17:01.660 basically going to align with one another and, in essence, take over the world.

00:17:06.440 Yeah, that split screen of those two things happening, those two press conferences at the

00:17:11.020 same time said it all.

00:17:12.740 And I think you're right.

00:17:13.900 We have very weak leadership in Joe Biden, and so I wish I could say it only related to

00:17:19.420 China, but I think it relates to our economy.

00:17:22.400 I think it relates to the disaster in Afghanistan, which really showed weakness.

00:17:27.660 The invitation to Putin into Ukraine with the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, the shaky ham and 0.77

00:17:36.140 eggs response to the Chinese satellite.

00:17:38.800 All of these are signals to the world and signals to our adversaries that this is a moment

00:17:45.340 to test and challenge America's weakness.

00:17:48.680 And to really be on offense, we need to do two things at the same time.

00:17:53.320 We need to go to the gym at home.

00:17:56.860 Part of our problem is a deterioration in some basic fundamentals.

00:18:01.420 We have an economy that is spending at an excessive rate, $31 trillion of debt, 40% increase in

00:18:09.340 discretionary spending in the last two years under Joe Biden, record high inflation, a direct

00:18:14.520 consequence of those prolonged low interest rates combined with the spending of Biden.

00:18:19.880 And as a consequence, our economy is weak, and we've got big problems ahead, unfortunately.

00:18:26.040 And that's why 80% of Americans think the country's headed in the wrong direction.

00:18:30.100 But we also have weakness in our military with the wokeness that sort of hijacked our armed 0.90

00:18:37.300 services, which is very sad for me as someone who served, went to West Point, served in the

00:18:41.680 Army.

00:18:42.000 But just as an example, the U.S.

00:18:43.940 Army released a climate change strategy before it released a war fighting strategy under Joe

00:18:50.600 Biden.

00:18:50.900 And we have this, you know, what I can only say is this progressive ideology that's chipping

00:18:56.860 away at some fundamentals that's made America exceptional.

00:19:01.560 So the schools where they're teaching a history of American America that we don't recognize,

00:19:08.600 that says America was conceived in sin, that makes our kids not recognize the exceptional

00:19:14.600 contribution that America has done more in the history of the world than any other country

00:19:18.020 for freedom and poverty eradication and so forth.

00:19:21.360 And if your kids don't think that the country's exceptional, then they don't understand what

00:19:25.640 it takes to preserve it and fight for it.

00:19:28.120 We see it in business with ESG criteria sort of undermining basic principles of capitalism

00:19:35.620 and the allocation of capital in pursuit of profit that's made America's economy the envy

00:19:40.760 of the world.

00:19:41.180 So there's a lot we need to do at home to build back our strength.

00:19:47.040 At the same time, we need to confront China abroad. 1.00

00:19:50.380 And what I laid out of that article you refer to, and in the book, Superpower in Peril, is

00:19:55.160 a plan to confront China where we strategically decouple in things like semiconductors or pharmaceuticals.

00:20:01.300 It was shocking to me, and I suspect many of your listeners, that our pharmaceutical supply

00:20:05.480 chain during COVID, we saw our pharmaceutical supply chain dependent on China.

00:20:09.160 That 90% of the chips that we need to make America run, sophisticated chips, are manufactured

00:20:14.880 90 miles from mainland China.

00:20:16.300 So we've got to decouple in those strategic areas.

00:20:18.820 So Dave, repeat that, because I want to make sure everyone listening to it hears that point.

00:20:22.260 There are a lot of important things you're saying, but the point on chips in particular

00:20:25.540 is really important.

00:20:26.300 So repeat that stat.

00:20:26.940 Yeah, chips, microchips really are the, you know, sort of the underlying technology that

00:20:33.240 drives today's modern economy.

00:20:34.960 Everything from the pickup truck that's in my driveway, which, by the way, you couldn't

00:20:39.460 buy for a year because of the delays in chips, to our most sophisticated weaponry.

00:20:45.380 And we don't have really any domestic chip, microchip manufacturing capability.

00:20:52.340 Over the years with sleepwalking on the part of policymakers on both parties, frankly, we now

00:20:59.180 have a situation where 90% of the chips that America requires are manufactured in Taiwan,

00:21:07.040 which is 90 miles from mainland China.

00:21:09.680 So if you thought about strategically, you know, suffocating America, if you took control

00:21:17.220 of those chip fabricators in Taiwan, you'd be able to strangle the world and put a huge

00:21:25.760 strategic delay on the capacity to deploy new weapons and all sorts of things.

00:21:31.300 And that's a strategic vulnerability that's almost unthinkable.

00:21:34.580 And yet we've let it happen.

00:21:36.320 Well, and I want you to pause for a second and reflect on what that means.

00:21:40.940 You know, we talk a lot on verdict about foreign policy.

00:21:43.980 We talk a lot about China and Russia and what's going on in the world.

00:21:47.620 But one of the reasons why Taiwan is so critical, one of the reasons why when I sit down in briefings 0.99

00:21:53.880 with our Secretary of Defense and our Joint Chiefs, the number one scenario they're talking

00:21:59.800 about inevitably is China invading Taiwan, because the magnitude of the threat to America,

00:22:07.000 that there is very little, if anything, that is comparable.

00:22:10.880 You look at that vulnerability on chips.

00:22:13.000 Imagine for a second that China successfully invades Taiwan, takes it over. 0.82

00:22:16.860 They have the capacity, A, just to cut off the most sophisticated chips that are being

00:22:22.620 produced, 90% of which are being produced in Taiwan.

00:22:25.420 So if you imagine for a second, OK, I guess America doesn't want any more cars, doesn't

00:22:29.420 want any more trucks, doesn't want any more planes, doesn't want any more iPhones, doesn't

00:22:33.200 want any more missiles, doesn't want any more weapons technology.

00:22:37.200 China's ability to say, you're done, we're cutting off your supply is massive.

00:22:41.940 And by the way, that's only one scenario.

00:22:43.980 Another scenario is that China takes those chips and implements within them surveillance 0.73

00:22:50.460 technology, says, OK, fine, you can have chips.

00:22:53.260 But much as they've done with Huawei and telecom, you can have chips.

00:22:56.720 But the Chinese government is now going to surveil everything on your cell phone, everything

00:23:00.640 on your car, everything on your truck, everything on your plane, everything on your missile and

00:23:04.580 weapons technology.

00:23:06.260 That vulnerability is massive.

00:23:08.720 And it is something, number one, that that a significant percentage of the American people

00:23:14.480 don't appreciate.

00:23:15.280 Number two, that Joe Biden, this administration is doing zero to prevent.

00:23:20.320 And number three, that should be an acute focus of American foreign policy and economic

00:23:26.640 policy to address and correct our vulnerability on this front.

00:23:29.800 I want to ask you, Dave, about TikTok and not TikTok within its space as a company, but the

00:23:37.360 bigger underlining issue of national security and the fact that we have this app that virtually

00:23:45.060 half of America has on their phone.

00:23:47.220 And there still has not been, in my opinion, a warning about this app from the top, the head

00:23:54.780 of the United States of America, and there's just deafening silence when what we know is this is

00:24:01.700 basically a spying app on the American people.

00:24:05.300 Before I get to that, I want to tell you about Patriot Mobile.

00:24:08.100 Patriot Mobile is the only Christian conservative cell phone company in the U.S.

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00:24:31.280 can upgrade to a new one if you want to.

00:24:34.360 But when you pay that bill every month, this is what happens.

00:24:37.520 They take a portion of that bill and they give it back to conservative causes and organizations

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00:25:20.040 Dave, I mentioned TikTok a second ago.

00:25:22.800 I think this is much bigger than TikTok.

00:25:24.960 I think it's the fact that we have a device or I should say an app on your device that

00:25:30.100 can look at virtually everything you're doing, collecting data.

00:25:33.400 It's very clear that China is doing this, abusing this power.

00:25:38.600 That's what it was created for.

00:25:40.720 And we still have a White House that has not given a warning to the American people.

00:25:44.660 This is something that China is using to spy on us.

00:25:47.180 Why have they not been more proactive on that, in your opinion?

00:25:51.300 Well, I think there's not a recognition of how important data is.

00:25:55.540 Data, there's an article a couple years ago in The Times that said data is the new oil.

00:26:00.820 In fact, data is much more significant strategically even than oil was in the past because data

00:26:05.960 is the key to innovation and data gives huge insight into both the strengths and vulnerabilities

00:26:12.800 of an economy, of a military, of an intelligence service.

00:26:17.260 So having access to data is a huge advantage.

00:26:20.000 And once again, China has a plan for data dominance and it really has an advantage because

00:26:25.880 it's a techno-authoritarian power and America doesn't have a plan.

00:26:30.580 And so why isn't there a sufficient focus on TikTok?

00:26:34.360 I don't think there's an adequate appreciation of how vulnerable we are by letting TikTok have

00:26:41.320 access to our data.

00:26:42.460 But China has access to our data in a variety of ways that have to be curtailed.

00:26:47.500 And so what I argue for in the book is much more significant privacy restraints.

00:26:52.520 Does it alarm you that if you buy a pair of sneakers online, that for the next three months

00:26:59.620 you get all sorts of advertisements in your feed for sneakers?

00:27:03.440 Well, that just shows you that your data is being sold and you lose control of your data.

00:27:08.500 And you may click the little box at the end of the purchase.

00:27:13.520 But in the end, who knows what that means and where your data actually goes?

00:27:17.620 Well, with China, it's much more significant.

00:27:20.040 One of the things I cite here is a case where our intelligence services identified that China

00:27:24.820 was pulling the Fitbit data of our troops in Afghanistan to be able to monitor what was

00:27:30.400 happening there.

00:27:31.200 It's a huge strategic advantage from an intelligence perspective and it has to be stopped.

00:27:36.460 And so I think understanding the significance of it leads to some obvious requirements to

00:27:41.880 restrict and stop.

00:27:43.600 The other thing is that data drives innovation.

00:27:46.220 So if you look at Operation Warp Speed, one of the reasons that we had such success in

00:27:51.380 developing new vaccines was that the pharma companies were able to share data.

00:27:56.120 And the Chinese don't share data at all. 0.93

00:27:58.560 The Wuhan lab is a perfect example of why we couldn't get to the bottom of what happened

00:28:02.480 with COVID because there was no sharing.

00:28:04.720 So we've got to have a strategy to push back on China, control our data, block China from 0.99

00:28:11.300 getting access to our data and leveraging our data for innovation.

00:28:14.040 Well, and Ben, I often think art imitates life. 0.96

00:28:18.480 As you know, I'm a movie buff and I watch all sorts of stupid series on TV because I download 0.95

00:28:24.080 them on my iPad and every time I'm on an airplane, I watch the series. 0.98

00:28:27.480 One series I'm a fan of is the HBO series Westworld.

00:28:30.960 I don't know if you happen to have seen it, but it's a sci-fi series where part of the premise,

00:28:35.740 so you have these very lifelike robots who you learn as you get into the later seasons,

00:28:40.860 are designed to collect constant data about people and develop models to know what Ben

00:28:48.260 Ferguson would do if faced with every choice in life.

00:28:52.260 And once they have that data, they essentially know how to control you.

00:28:55.500 They know everything.

00:28:56.200 They know who you are.

00:28:57.140 They can literally predict the future.

00:28:58.760 Now, I don't think HBO is necessarily Nostradamus, but it does underscore the power of data.

00:29:08.120 And right now, our federal government is not, it's not even that we're losing this battle.

00:29:15.820 We're not even engaged in this battle.

00:29:17.640 It is a one-sided fight.

00:29:19.560 And so, Dave, let me ask you this.

00:29:22.680 In your judgment, what is China's objective?

00:29:28.220 What are they trying to accomplish?

00:29:30.240 And what are their principal tools for accomplishing it?

00:29:35.060 Well, I think China is essentially trying to create techno-authoritarian dominance.

00:29:41.820 In other words, they're trying to ensure that their economy is the dominant technological force

00:29:47.960 in the world.

00:29:50.100 So that's from a capability perspective.

00:29:52.140 And that obviously is able to ensure a very lethal military.

00:29:59.940 And they're also pursuing a set of foreign policy objectives that will ensure that China

00:30:05.560 really displaces America as the global superpower.

00:30:08.320 Now, I think the evidence that that was the objective would have been a little less certain

00:30:13.620 in the 2012, 2013, 14 timeframe.

00:30:17.960 But with the rise of President Xi, it's become obvious that that's the goal.

00:30:24.360 And one reason we know that is because he said it time and again in his speeches and his

00:30:30.040 documents in terms of where he expects China to be as a global leader.

00:30:34.640 But more than that, we see evidence just in the recent weeks where China has done a brilliant

00:30:42.000 job of advancing its interest in Central America, South America, in the Middle East.

00:30:47.780 And when there's a void in leadership, when people feel uncertain that they can count on

00:30:53.640 America, the Middle East is a great example of Saudi Arabia.

00:30:55.900 Saudi Arabia is one of our tightest allies, has lots of reasons to object to the rise of 0.96

00:31:02.760 Iran.

00:31:03.360 And yet, under President Biden, there's been an opening, an opening that the Chinese have 0.99

00:31:08.800 deftly exploited and is really displacing America as the critical superpower in the Middle

00:31:15.640 East.

00:31:15.840 So the objective is world dominance in displacing the United States and doing so with a techno-authoritarian

00:31:22.520 capability.

00:31:23.240 Well, and a weak American president is profoundly dangerous.

00:31:26.820 It's profoundly dangerous because our enemies step into the void.

00:31:29.840 It's profoundly dangerous because our allies are afraid to rely on us and they move into that

00:31:35.720 void as well.

00:31:36.760 They end up being drawn into the spheres of influence of our enemies.

00:31:40.060 Let me ask you this, Dave, as a follow-up.

00:31:43.660 As you look at it, what are the strengths and weaknesses China has in this battle?

00:31:50.980 And even more importantly, what are the strengths and weaknesses America has?

00:31:55.420 And how do we win?

00:31:57.340 How do we beat China and stop them from achieving their goal of world dominance? 0.99

00:32:03.180 Well, the strengths that the Chinese have is also its weakness in the sense that it's 1.00

00:32:08.840 a top-down, state-driven economy.

00:32:14.020 The techno-authoritarian, what I mean by that is they've got a clear strategy, an economic

00:32:19.280 strategy to dominate in these key technologies.

00:32:22.380 There used to be this notion when I served in the government of dual-use technologies being

00:32:27.120 something we had to monitor carefully.

00:32:29.240 In essence, today, there's a convergence.

00:32:32.580 Artificial intelligence, quantum science, robotics, satellites, they are interchangeably the

00:32:38.020 core of national security and economic vitality.

00:32:41.820 The Chinese recognize that, and they have a very focused strategy to be the dominant player

00:32:47.360 in all those technologies.

00:32:48.760 And the fact that they have a state-controlled economy, they can drive the allocation of capital

00:32:54.100 and the focus on those areas through their state-owned enterprises.

00:32:57.960 So how do we beat them?

00:32:59.400 Now, how do we beat them?

00:33:00.500 Well, we beat them because our economy, and their economy, because of that, has created

00:33:05.940 all sorts of weaknesses.

00:33:07.180 We can beat them because our economy is far more agile, far more entrepreneurial, but we're

00:33:13.000 failing at the moment.

00:33:14.340 We're failing at investing in basic R&D.

00:33:17.420 We're failing at educating our people to be able to compete in these new areas.

00:33:23.520 Semiconductor is a great example.

00:33:24.660 You don't have a college degree to fill some of these key technical jobs, but you do have

00:33:29.520 to have technical training, and we're deeply short in the requirements.

00:33:35.560 And this is what I argue in the book, Superpower in Peril, we need to have the government, and

00:33:41.640 we need to do this with care, but we need to have the government create incentives, tax

00:33:45.880 rebates, and potentially side-by-side investing with the private sector to drive capital into

00:33:52.200 those areas that are going to be most critical for our national security, like artificial 0.99

00:33:55.660 intelligence, as an example.

00:33:57.400 And we need to do that in a way that the government doesn't play any role in picking companies or

00:34:01.480 anything like that.

00:34:02.040 We can't have a China model, and we can't have industrial policy like the Biden administration

00:34:07.740 has put in place.

00:34:08.780 We have to have markets-driven ways to drive private capital to these technologies that matter

00:34:14.440 so much for the future.

00:34:15.660 And with those kinds of things in place, we can win this game, but right now we're on our

00:34:21.100 back foot and we're losing.

00:34:22.200 I want to ask you a final question, and this is about what happens when technology teams

00:34:28.800 up with a country that desperately needs that technology.

00:34:33.120 Obviously, I'm talking about China and Russia, and we see how big of an impact technology can

00:34:39.380 have even on killing innocent people in Ukraine, drones coming in, other type of technology that

00:34:46.440 Russia just doesn't have.

00:34:48.020 This alliance between these two countries are so dangerous for that reason, in my opinion.

00:34:54.760 I want to get your take on that.

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00:35:59.780 Dave, I want you to answer that question about the technology, and you have a country that

00:36:05.700 has a ton of it.

00:36:06.500 You have a country that has hardly any of it and is decades behind.

00:36:11.080 When you put those two together right now, and this is happening in real time, they both

00:36:15.940 bring something to the table.

00:36:17.340 One needs energy.

00:36:18.360 That's something Russia does have.

00:36:20.080 And the other needs to have technology, and that's something that Russia needs.

00:36:24.020 Well, I think that alliance poses real challenges and risks to the United States.

00:36:29.140 But I think our path is clear.

00:36:31.040 The problem is we're just not following it.

00:36:32.580 And let me elaborate on that for a minute.

00:36:34.820 Our defense spending needs to do two things at the same time, and we shouldn't pay too

00:36:40.400 much attention to those who are arguing one or the other.

00:36:43.080 We need to invest in existing platforms because that's core to our military capability to fight

00:36:48.720 a land war or a sea battle in the South China Sea or to support the Ukrainians in their

00:36:56.060 fight against Russia.

00:36:56.880 But we also need to invest in the next generation in a way that's going to make sure that we

00:37:01.820 are out in front of where the Chinese are.

00:37:04.260 And the Chinese have developed lots of capabilities that really threaten us in the South China Sea 1.00

00:37:08.300 and are going to threaten us in anything we do militarily around the world.

00:37:12.900 So we've got to have – and that's not happening under Joe Biden.

00:37:15.840 Right now, the spending is not even keeping up with inflation.

00:37:18.960 And right now, we have leadership that's not able to do those two things at the same

00:37:22.480 time.

00:37:22.920 The second thing we need to do, and just to refer to your point on energy, the Biden

00:37:27.860 administration has taken us absolutely the wrong direction.

00:37:30.660 I mean, I live in Pennsylvania, which has the fourth largest natural gas reserves in

00:37:35.380 the world of Pennsylvania, where our country would be fourth.

00:37:37.340 And the Biden administration has essentially, in one fell swoop, made us less secure because

00:37:43.300 we've become an energy importer, has made us less rich because it's hurt us economically,

00:37:49.740 and has hurt the environment because natural gas out of Pennsylvania is much cleaner than

00:37:54.100 the imports we have today.

00:37:55.440 And that's a key building block of national security, and we've screwed it up.

00:37:59.560 And that, again, has created the opportunity for a partnership between Russia and China,

00:38:05.500 which poses real risk.

00:38:07.380 Well, and let me echo a couple of things Dave just said.

00:38:09.680 Number one, I believe America can and will prevail against China.

00:38:13.900 I think we have enormous assets, the most important of which is freedom.

00:38:17.840 Free enterprise is a much stronger economic system than communism.

00:38:22.600 During the Cold War, the Soviet Union – and by the way, lots of Democrats and left-wing

00:38:27.580 academics – said, oh, the Soviet Union was unbeatable.

00:38:30.220 Jimmy Carter whined that we couldn't compete.

00:38:33.140 And the American free enterprise system was so powerful, but what we needed was American

00:38:38.220 leadership.

00:38:38.900 We needed the clarity that we saw during the Reagan administration to call them out for

00:38:43.840 who they are.

00:38:44.900 When Reagan described the Soviet Union as the evil empire, when he was asked, what's your

00:38:50.700 strategy in the Cold War?

00:38:51.920 He said, it's very simple.

00:38:52.880 We win, they lose.

00:38:53.740 When he said Marxism-Leninism will end up on the ash heap of history, when he said, Mr.

00:38:59.300 Gorbachev, tear down this wall, that clarity and strength of leadership combined with unleashing

00:39:05.460 the American economic engine bankrupted the Soviet Union and won the Cold War without firing

00:39:11.540 a shot.

00:39:12.040 I believe we need to replicate the strategy of the Cold War for dealing with China. 0.96

00:39:16.420 I think Dave is one of the most serious thinkers in the country in doing so.

00:39:20.520 And I'm optimistic.

00:39:21.700 Look, Joe Biden's not going to do it.

00:39:23.200 The Democrats are not going to do it, but the American people are frustrated with the

00:39:27.160 path they're on.

00:39:27.780 They're going to change.

00:39:28.760 As we're wrapping up, though, Ben, I'm going to take a moment of personal privilege and

00:39:33.040 just victory lap for a moment.

00:39:34.400 We started this podcast by victory lapping Stanford Law School in a moment of sanity and free

00:39:40.560 speech breaking out on one of our elite law schools.

00:39:43.420 I'm going to victory lap on the other end now and just point out I'm sitting here hanging

00:39:47.440 out with with two jocks.

00:39:51.900 Listen, and I want to do a shout out to all of our listeners who are geeks and nerds.

00:39:57.180 Maybe you're a theater kid.

00:39:59.300 Look, Ben, for all his aw shucks down to earth nature, was a varsity tennis player at Ole Miss. 0.98

00:40:07.240 And Dave was captain of the damn wrestling team at West Point. 0.95

00:40:11.800 And by the way, as I'm campaigning with him across Pennsylvania, he didn't tell me initially 0.98

00:40:15.740 he was all state in football because that didn't even merit mentioning.

00:40:18.800 It didn't make the list.

00:40:21.260 Me, I was on the debate team.

00:40:23.580 So let's be clear.

00:40:24.680 Both Ben and Dave in high school or college would have stuffed me in the locker.

00:40:28.460 And here we are hanging out on the podcast fighting to save America.

00:40:33.120 So I'm just going to revel for a moment and say to every one of you who wasn't captain of

00:40:38.560 the wrestling team at West Point, there's hope for you.

00:40:41.580 There's hope for me.

00:40:42.480 And there's hope for America.

00:40:43.860 I love it.

00:40:44.920 I love it.

00:40:45.820 Grab Dave's new book, Superpower in Peril, A Battle Plan to Renew America.

00:40:51.220 You can grab it on Amazon or wherever you get your books.

00:40:55.160 I know you're on a book tour as well.

00:40:56.500 So if people want to see where you're headed or where you're going, is that schedule out

00:41:00.220 there so people can find it?

00:41:01.960 Yes, it's out there on DaveMcCormickBook.com.

00:41:05.900 DaveMcCormickBook.com.

00:41:06.780 Dave, it was a pleasure to have you on.

00:41:08.560 Verdict, we've got a lot of news that may be breaking.

00:41:11.420 Don't worry this week.

00:41:12.480 We will have you covered.

00:41:14.080 The center and I will be back here with you in a couple of days.

00:41:16.780 And make sure you hit that share button.

00:41:18.320 Subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss an episode.

00:41:20.980 And write us a five-star review so we can reach new listeners.

00:41:24.240 We'll see you back here in a couple of days.

00:41:26.500 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:41:29.360 Guaranteed human.

Verdict with Ted Cruz - March 24, 2023

Big Stanford WIN for Free Speech, plus guest Dave McCormick on How We Beat China

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