Verdict with Ted Cruz - March 24, 2023


Big Stanford WIN for Free Speech, plus guest Dave McCormick on How We Beat China


Episode Stats


Length

41 minutes

Words per minute

172.76465

Word count

7,171

Sentence count

436

Harmful content

Misogyny

5

sentences flagged

Toxicity

7

sentences flagged

Hate speech

25

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Ted Cruz's new book, "Superpower in Peril: A Battle Plan to Renew America," is out now, and he's joined by his new book co-author, Dave McCormick, to talk about how to deal with China. But before we get to that, we've got a victory to celebrate about a previous podcast that exposed a previous judge that was shut down at one of the Ivy League schools.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.
00:00:05.240 Welcome.
00:00:05.920 It is Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you.
00:00:10.120 And Senator, we've got a fun podcast for everybody.
00:00:13.320 We're going to have a guest tonight, and that is going to be Dave McCormick.
00:00:18.400 He has got a new book out, Superpower in Peril, A Battle Plan to Renew America.
00:00:23.960 He's going to join us in a moment to talk about this.
00:00:27.060 And the timeliness of this book is spot on dealing with China right now.
00:00:30.520 But before we get to that, we've got a victory to celebrate.
00:00:34.820 You got a letter back about a previous podcast that we did exposing a federal judge that was
00:00:43.360 shut down at one of the Ivy League schools.
00:00:45.940 I'll let you take it from there on this victory lap.
00:00:49.580 Well, sure.
00:00:50.040 No, this is yet another victory.
00:00:51.380 It's been a good week.
00:00:52.180 We keep having big, big wins.
00:00:54.040 This, of course, concerns Stanford Law School and something we've talked about at length on
00:00:59.420 the podcast, which is Judge Kyle Duncan went out to Stanford Law School.
00:01:03.500 He was speaking there, was invited by the Federalist Society, and a group of left-wing
00:01:07.880 activists showed up there.
00:01:09.180 They protested there.
00:01:10.320 They screamed at him.
00:01:11.300 They cursed at him. 0.91
00:01:12.520 They made sexually profane attacks at him.
00:01:16.780 They shouted him down.
00:01:17.880 They prevented him from giving his speech.
00:01:20.000 It was outrageous.
00:01:21.020 It then became even worse, because he asked quite reasonably, is there anyone from the
00:01:26.340 administration here?
00:01:27.960 And the dean for DEI, for Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, stepped forward, and he, for
00:01:33.700 a moment, thought, oh, good, there's an adult in the room who will actually stop them from
00:01:38.220 shouting me down.
00:01:39.540 Well, no, it turned out the dean had a prepared screed, six minutes that she read from, where
00:01:47.020 she sided with the protesters, she denounced the judge, she said how painful his very existence
00:01:53.400 was.
00:01:53.960 She kept saying her odd phrase was, is the juice worse the squeeze?
00:01:58.660 In other words, is it worth it to let you speak because our sensitive natures will be
00:02:04.400 troubled?
00:02:05.460 It was outrageous.
00:02:06.560 We talked about it at length.
00:02:09.000 In response, I did several things.
00:02:11.160 One of the things I did is I sent a letter to the Texas State Bar, urging the Texas State
00:02:15.840 Bar to inquire of every graduate of Stanford for the next three years whether they participated
00:02:21.000 in screaming and harassing and shouting down and cursing at the federal judge, because to
00:02:25.840 be a member of the bar, the bar has to make a determination that you have the character
00:02:29.260 and fitness to do so, and if you don't know how to deal with a federal judge without screaming
00:02:34.180 and cursing at him, you are not, in my view, fit to be a member of the bar.
00:02:39.040 A second letter I sent was to Stanford Law School, and Stanford Law School has a free speech
00:02:45.120 policy.
00:02:46.280 The policy on the face of it is quite good.
00:02:48.220 It says that you have a right to free speech, that speakers that come to Stanford have a
00:02:52.280 right to be heard, that the people who want to hear the speakers have a right to hear what
00:02:55.760 they have to say, and that students don't have a right to shout them down.
00:02:59.500 And I asked Stanford, I said, number one, what are you going to do concerning the specific
00:03:05.320 students who violated this policy?
00:03:07.240 Is there going to be any discipline?
00:03:08.260 And number two, what are you going to do with this dean who defied Stanford's policy and
00:03:17.020 sided with the aggressive protesters rather than the right of the speaker, the federal
00:03:23.800 judge, to give his remarks?
00:03:26.060 Well, we got a response back from Stanford Law School on March 22nd.
00:03:30.520 March 22nd happens to be my dad's 84th birthday, and so I thought it was a great birthday present
00:03:36.880 because much to my astonishment, I'm actually going to say something nice about Stanford
00:03:41.220 Law School.
00:03:42.380 It is a letter from the president of Stanford University and a letter from the dean of Stanford
00:03:46.740 Law School, a woman named Jenny Martinez, who actually I went to law school with. 1.00
00:03:50.800 I know Jenny.
00:03:51.320 She was a year behind me, I think, in law school.
00:03:53.660 She's now the dean of the Stanford Law School, and their letter broke the news, number one,
00:04:01.740 that the dean has been suspended.
00:04:04.080 And this is a big deal.
00:04:05.460 I asked specifically about the dean, and I'm going to quote from the letter.
00:04:08.760 The response is, Associate Dean Therrin Steinbach is currently on leave.
00:04:14.600 Generally speaking, the university does not comment publicly on pending personnel matters.
00:04:19.220 That's a big deal for a so-called elite law school like Stanford Law School to take their
00:04:27.200 high priestess of diversity and put her on leave for stifling free speech. 1.00
00:04:33.640 Now, mind you, she completely defied the university policy, but in today's left-wing woke culture, 1.00
00:04:41.680 it is remarkable, and I'm going to say Stanford is to be commended for holding its deans to the
00:04:47.960 standard of following school policy.
00:04:49.860 And then, secondly, with regard to the students, what Stanford said in response is they said
00:04:56.500 they're not going to discipline the individual students.
00:04:58.760 I was disappointed at that.
00:05:00.320 But their reasoning is they said, because we had an administrator there, a dean, who refused
00:05:07.100 to follow our own policy, so we're not going to hold the students responsible.
00:05:10.820 I don't entirely agree with that, but it wasn't a crazy thing they said.
00:05:14.120 But here's what also they said.
00:05:15.380 In summary, the university is taking the following steps to address these issues in the near term.
00:05:21.440 One, staff will receive additional training on the role of any administrator's president
00:05:26.080 events to ensure that university rules on disruption of events will be followed.
00:05:31.060 Two, we will also adopt a more explicit policy with clear protocols for dealing with disruptions
00:05:36.780 that will better protect the rights of speakers and also those who wish to exercise their right
00:05:41.200 to protest within permissible bounds.
00:05:44.000 This will bring greater clarity and certainty about future enforcement of the policy, including
00:05:48.360 through disciplinary sanctions as appropriate.
00:05:51.580 Three, currently enrolled law students will attend a mandatory half-day session on the topic
00:05:59.660 of freedom of speech and the norms of the legal profession.
00:06:03.420 And four, a committee will work during the spring quarter to hear feedback from the faculty,
00:06:13.860 students, and members of the bar, including our alumni, and make further recommendations
00:06:17.580 on the steps that the law school should take.
00:06:20.400 This is a big deal.
00:06:21.960 It's a big victory.
00:06:23.120 The fact that these woke, angry leftists are going to be required from the school to learn
00:06:29.740 about free speech, to learn, look, if you're training to be a member of the bar and you
00:06:35.320 want to appear before a federal judge, you may disagree with the federal judge, you may
00:06:38.900 hate the federal judge, you may think the federal judge's rulings are wrong in every respect,
00:06:44.300 but if you stand up and start yelling and screaming and cursing at the federal judge, you better
00:06:48.700 have brought a toothbrush because you are going to jail and you're going to be held in contempt of
00:06:52.220 court, and I'm going to commend Stanford.
00:06:55.360 What happened there was disgraceful, but their response candidly surprised me, and it gives
00:07:03.720 some degree of hope that free speech is possible and that maybe, maybe, maybe the pendulum
00:07:12.780 of the woke schools may be starting to swing back the other direction.
00:07:16.400 Especially since we've seen so many different speeches be stifled or canceled at universities
00:07:25.240 over the last couple of years, especially conservative speakers.
00:07:28.700 Let's just be clear about that.
00:07:30.420 This is a good moment for free speech, as you described it, and it's a moment that we should
00:07:36.080 all celebrate.
00:07:37.260 I want to get into this other issue.
00:07:39.380 You have a good friend with you tonight who's got a new book that is out right now.
00:07:45.280 You should get your hands on this book, especially with what we're dealing with with China right 1.00
00:07:50.760 now.
00:07:51.000 Dave McCormick's new book is out, Superpower in Peril, A Battle Plan to Renew America.
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00:09:19.020 All right, Senator, this is a very important moment, I think, in our country's history,
00:09:25.260 specifically when it comes to China.
00:09:27.520 We're seeing this unnatural alliance that is taking place right now, China, Russia getting 0.95
00:09:33.340 together.
00:09:34.160 Dave McCormick is with you tonight as well.
00:09:36.480 He's got this new book out.
00:09:38.060 The timing couldn't have been better.
00:09:40.100 Dave, welcome to Verdict, first of all, and you've got to be excited to see not only your
00:09:44.820 book come out, but also the timing of it with what's happening right now with China.
00:09:49.880 Hey, Ben.
00:09:50.300 Thanks so much for having me, and Senator, thanks for having me on today.
00:09:54.700 Yeah, the timing couldn't be perfect.
00:09:57.100 It couldn't be more perfect, rather.
00:09:59.420 We're at a tipping point here.
00:10:01.100 America's in decline, and we see that decline within, in terms of our economic situation,
00:10:08.960 our national security capability, and spiritually, what's going on in the country in terms of
00:10:13.320 progressive ideology, chipping away at American strength and some fundamentals of America.
00:10:19.020 But at the very same time, we see this huge existential challenge from China, and it's 1.00
00:10:25.520 getting worse by the day.
00:10:27.140 In the last couple of weeks, there was an article in the Wall Street Journal that cited
00:10:31.880 a study by an Australian think tank that identified 44 technologies that are critical for economic
00:10:38.620 growth and national security.
00:10:39.860 The Chinese were in the lead in 37 of the 44, according to this Australian think tank.
00:10:47.700 And more than the technological capability, China is pursuing a strategy to displace America 0.97
00:10:54.680 as the superpower.
00:10:56.060 And that's what this book is about, Superpower in Peril, is that our status in the world,
00:11:00.940 our leadership at home and our status in the world is in question.
00:11:04.020 And you only have to look at the news this week, where in the very same week, you saw
00:11:09.800 the Chinese brokering a deal between Saudi Arabia and Iran, and you saw China, China's 0.88
00:11:17.180 leader Xi, in Russia, in partnership with Putin, in support of Putin's aggression in Ukraine.
00:11:25.440 And if that doesn't give you evidence that China's on the move, then nothing will.
00:11:30.140 And in essence, what I say in the book is China has a plan, and we don't. 0.95
00:11:35.680 America doesn't have a plan. 0.99
00:11:36.780 And this book, Superpower in Peril, is about our plan for retaining our place in the world
00:11:41.600 and for restoring the American dream.
00:11:44.300 Well, and Ben, let me jump in here for a second, because I want to tell our listeners a little
00:11:48.460 bit about who Dave is.
00:11:50.000 Dave is a good friend of mine.
00:11:51.400 I've known Dave McCormick a long, long time.
00:11:54.380 Dave is someone who grew up in Pennsylvania, grew up actually as parents at a Christmas tree
00:11:59.680 farm.
00:12:00.640 He grew up in rural Pennsylvania.
00:12:02.960 He was a jock.
00:12:04.800 He was all-state in wrestling.
00:12:07.060 He was all-state in football.
00:12:09.480 He ended up going to West Point.
00:12:11.640 At West Point, he was captain of the wrestling team.
00:12:14.900 He became an army ranger.
00:12:16.260 He was a combat veteran.
00:12:17.420 He defended our nation.
00:12:18.680 He came back to Pennsylvania.
00:12:21.360 He became incredibly successful, was a CEO of a very large company in Pittsburgh, created
00:12:28.440 over 1,000 jobs in Pittsburgh.
00:12:31.320 He went to serve in the administration.
00:12:33.800 He was a senior official in the Bush administration, the Treasury Department, dealing with China,
00:12:39.440 taking on China directly.
00:12:42.100 He became the CEO of one of the largest hedge funds in the world, was incredibly successful
00:12:47.600 as a financial leader.
00:12:49.920 When Donald Trump was president, Donald Trump wanted Dave to come in as the deputy secretary
00:12:55.040 of defense.
00:12:55.700 He ended up not doing that, but Trump very much wanted him to do that.
00:12:59.260 His wife, who's another dear friend, Dina Powell, was Donald Trump's deputy national security
00:13:04.480 advisor.
00:13:04.960 And she's someone Heidi and I have known for 24 years now.
00:13:10.360 Dave, as you'll recall, just ran for Senate in the state of Pennsylvania, and he put on
00:13:16.680 a heck of a campaign.
00:13:17.840 I endorsed Dave the very first week he was in the campaign.
00:13:21.080 I campaigned all over the state of Pennsylvania with him.
00:13:23.880 We did rallies all over the state.
00:13:26.780 Unfortunately, in that race, Donald Trump ended up endorsing Dr. Oz.
00:13:33.480 I wish he had not.
00:13:34.280 I think that was a mistake.
00:13:35.920 At the end of the day, Dave lost the primary.
00:13:38.880 I think it was 900 and how many votes?
00:13:42.220 915 votes of 1.4 million cast.
00:13:45.400 I'm sure that's a number you'll forget, right?
00:13:47.980 That's etched in my brain, Ben.
00:13:50.060 So I have to admit, for me, the number is 900-ish.
00:13:55.800 For Dave, 915 is acutely carved into his consciousness.
00:14:01.060 Yeah, as long as you had under that and the number of friends in your phone, then it's
00:14:05.780 not your fault, okay?
00:14:07.220 But if it's above that in your phone, it's totally your fault.
00:14:10.480 Exactly.
00:14:11.340 But I will say the consequences are very real.
00:14:13.740 I am absolutely certain, had Dave gotten 916 votes more in the primary, had he been the
00:14:22.560 nominee, he would have won the general election.
00:14:24.580 He would have been the new Republican senator from the state of Pennsylvania.
00:14:29.060 And the consequence of that, instead of a 51-49 Democrat Senate, we would have a 50-50
00:14:34.100 Senate.
00:14:34.480 What that would mean is Democrats on every committee would have equal representation.
00:14:39.900 Right now, they have a majority on every committee.
00:14:41.980 It means Democrats can issue subpoenas.
00:14:43.840 It means they have control to accelerate their agenda through the Senate.
00:14:48.740 And it was heartbreaking.
00:14:50.240 I will also say, and I'm not going to press Dave to make an announcement, but I'm going
00:14:53.320 to be quite candid.
00:14:54.420 I hope that he's running again in 2024.
00:14:57.280 I think he'll make a hell of a senator, and I was proud to stand with him.
00:15:00.500 But this book he wrote is a book he'd actually been working on before he ran for Senate, and
00:15:06.060 he suddenly found himself out on the campaign trail shaking hands and kissing babies, and
00:15:10.560 he kind of put the book on hold.
00:15:12.000 And then when the campaign was over, he went back to the book and finished it and turned
00:15:15.100 it around.
00:15:15.960 And I say all of that to say, when Dave writes, A, about China, he does so from first-hand
00:15:22.860 experience having dealt with China.
00:15:25.220 But B, when he writes about the economy and America's economic situation, he does so
00:15:30.500 as an incredibly successful business leader who has created jobs, who's worked at the
00:15:36.440 highest levels of government.
00:15:38.320 And so he's thinking seriously about how America wins this battle with China.
00:15:44.580 I believe China is the single greatest geopolitical threat facing the United States for the next 0.97
00:15:49.640 hundred years.
00:15:51.060 And Dave's thinking seriously about how we win that battle.
00:15:54.340 Canadian women are looking for more, more of themselves, their businesses, their elected 0.99
00:15:58.980 leaders, and the world around them.
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00:16:23.680 Dave, you had an interesting op-ed that obviously connected to your book launch that was at Fox
00:16:32.680 News, and it says, China has a plan to lead the world. 0.52
00:16:36.000 What's ours?
00:16:37.160 The scary part is that may be one of the most accurate op-ed headlines I've seen in a long
00:16:43.720 time because I genuinely don't know what America's plan is to lead the world under the Biden team.
00:16:49.600 You look at just how out of touch this White House is, they're having the cast of Ted Lasso
00:16:55.940 come in on the day that China and Russia are having very serious meetings about how they're
00:17:01.660 basically going to align with one another and, in essence, take over the world.
00:17:06.440 Yeah, that split screen of those two things happening, those two press conferences at the
00:17:11.020 same time said it all.
00:17:12.740 And I think you're right.
00:17:13.900 We have very weak leadership in Joe Biden, and so I wish I could say it only related to
00:17:19.420 China, but I think it relates to our economy.
00:17:22.400 I think it relates to the disaster in Afghanistan, which really showed weakness.
00:17:27.660 The invitation to Putin into Ukraine with the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, the shaky ham and 0.77
00:17:36.140 eggs response to the Chinese satellite.
00:17:38.800 All of these are signals to the world and signals to our adversaries that this is a moment
00:17:45.340 to test and challenge America's weakness.
00:17:48.680 And to really be on offense, we need to do two things at the same time.
00:17:53.320 We need to go to the gym at home.
00:17:56.860 Part of our problem is a deterioration in some basic fundamentals.
00:18:01.420 We have an economy that is spending at an excessive rate, $31 trillion of debt, 40% increase in
00:18:09.340 discretionary spending in the last two years under Joe Biden, record high inflation, a direct
00:18:14.520 consequence of those prolonged low interest rates combined with the spending of Biden.
00:18:19.880 And as a consequence, our economy is weak, and we've got big problems ahead, unfortunately.
00:18:26.040 And that's why 80% of Americans think the country's headed in the wrong direction.
00:18:30.100 But we also have weakness in our military with the wokeness that sort of hijacked our armed 0.90
00:18:37.300 services, which is very sad for me as someone who served, went to West Point, served in the
00:18:41.680 Army.
00:18:42.000 But just as an example, the U.S.
00:18:43.940 Army released a climate change strategy before it released a war fighting strategy under Joe
00:18:50.600 Biden.
00:18:50.900 And we have this, you know, what I can only say is this progressive ideology that's chipping
00:18:56.860 away at some fundamentals that's made America exceptional.
00:19:01.560 So the schools where they're teaching a history of American America that we don't recognize,
00:19:08.600 that says America was conceived in sin, that makes our kids not recognize the exceptional
00:19:14.600 contribution that America has done more in the history of the world than any other country
00:19:18.020 for freedom and poverty eradication and so forth.
00:19:21.360 And if your kids don't think that the country's exceptional, then they don't understand what
00:19:25.640 it takes to preserve it and fight for it.
00:19:28.120 We see it in business with ESG criteria sort of undermining basic principles of capitalism
00:19:35.620 and the allocation of capital in pursuit of profit that's made America's economy the envy
00:19:40.760 of the world.
00:19:41.180 So there's a lot we need to do at home to build back our strength.
00:19:47.040 At the same time, we need to confront China abroad. 1.00
00:19:50.380 And what I laid out of that article you refer to, and in the book, Superpower in Peril, is
00:19:55.160 a plan to confront China where we strategically decouple in things like semiconductors or pharmaceuticals.
00:20:01.300 It was shocking to me, and I suspect many of your listeners, that our pharmaceutical supply
00:20:05.480 chain during COVID, we saw our pharmaceutical supply chain dependent on China.
00:20:09.160 That 90% of the chips that we need to make America run, sophisticated chips, are manufactured
00:20:14.880 90 miles from mainland China.
00:20:16.300 So we've got to decouple in those strategic areas.
00:20:18.820 So Dave, repeat that, because I want to make sure everyone listening to it hears that point.
00:20:22.260 There are a lot of important things you're saying, but the point on chips in particular
00:20:25.540 is really important.
00:20:26.300 So repeat that stat.
00:20:26.940 Yeah, chips, microchips really are the, you know, sort of the underlying technology that
00:20:33.240 drives today's modern economy.
00:20:34.960 Everything from the pickup truck that's in my driveway, which, by the way, you couldn't
00:20:39.460 buy for a year because of the delays in chips, to our most sophisticated weaponry.
00:20:45.380 And we don't have really any domestic chip, microchip manufacturing capability.
00:20:52.340 Over the years with sleepwalking on the part of policymakers on both parties, frankly, we now
00:20:59.180 have a situation where 90% of the chips that America requires are manufactured in Taiwan,
00:21:07.040 which is 90 miles from mainland China.
00:21:09.680 So if you thought about strategically, you know, suffocating America, if you took control
00:21:17.220 of those chip fabricators in Taiwan, you'd be able to strangle the world and put a huge
00:21:25.760 strategic delay on the capacity to deploy new weapons and all sorts of things.
00:21:31.300 And that's a strategic vulnerability that's almost unthinkable.
00:21:34.580 And yet we've let it happen.
00:21:36.320 Well, and I want you to pause for a second and reflect on what that means.
00:21:40.940 You know, we talk a lot on verdict about foreign policy.
00:21:43.980 We talk a lot about China and Russia and what's going on in the world.
00:21:47.620 But one of the reasons why Taiwan is so critical, one of the reasons why when I sit down in briefings 0.99
00:21:53.880 with our Secretary of Defense and our Joint Chiefs, the number one scenario they're talking
00:21:59.800 about inevitably is China invading Taiwan, because the magnitude of the threat to America,
00:22:07.000 that there is very little, if anything, that is comparable.
00:22:10.880 You look at that vulnerability on chips.
00:22:13.000 Imagine for a second that China successfully invades Taiwan, takes it over. 0.82
00:22:16.860 They have the capacity, A, just to cut off the most sophisticated chips that are being
00:22:22.620 produced, 90% of which are being produced in Taiwan.
00:22:25.420 So if you imagine for a second, OK, I guess America doesn't want any more cars, doesn't
00:22:29.420 want any more trucks, doesn't want any more planes, doesn't want any more iPhones, doesn't
00:22:33.200 want any more missiles, doesn't want any more weapons technology.
00:22:37.200 China's ability to say, you're done, we're cutting off your supply is massive.
00:22:41.940 And by the way, that's only one scenario.
00:22:43.980 Another scenario is that China takes those chips and implements within them surveillance 0.73
00:22:50.460 technology, says, OK, fine, you can have chips.
00:22:53.260 But much as they've done with Huawei and telecom, you can have chips.
00:22:56.720 But the Chinese government is now going to surveil everything on your cell phone, everything
00:23:00.640 on your car, everything on your truck, everything on your plane, everything on your missile and
00:23:04.580 weapons technology.
00:23:06.260 That vulnerability is massive.
00:23:08.720 And it is something, number one, that that a significant percentage of the American people
00:23:14.480 don't appreciate.
00:23:15.280 Number two, that Joe Biden, this administration is doing zero to prevent.
00:23:20.320 And number three, that should be an acute focus of American foreign policy and economic
00:23:26.640 policy to address and correct our vulnerability on this front.
00:23:29.800 I want to ask you, Dave, about TikTok and not TikTok within its space as a company, but the
00:23:37.360 bigger underlining issue of national security and the fact that we have this app that virtually
00:23:45.060 half of America has on their phone.
00:23:47.220 And there still has not been, in my opinion, a warning about this app from the top, the head
00:23:54.780 of the United States of America, and there's just deafening silence when what we know is this is
00:24:01.700 basically a spying app on the American people.
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00:25:20.040 Dave, I mentioned TikTok a second ago.
00:25:22.800 I think this is much bigger than TikTok.
00:25:24.960 I think it's the fact that we have a device or I should say an app on your device that
00:25:30.100 can look at virtually everything you're doing, collecting data.
00:25:33.400 It's very clear that China is doing this, abusing this power.
00:25:38.600 That's what it was created for.
00:25:40.720 And we still have a White House that has not given a warning to the American people.
00:25:44.660 This is something that China is using to spy on us.
00:25:47.180 Why have they not been more proactive on that, in your opinion?
00:25:51.300 Well, I think there's not a recognition of how important data is.
00:25:55.540 Data, there's an article a couple years ago in The Times that said data is the new oil.
00:26:00.820 In fact, data is much more significant strategically even than oil was in the past because data
00:26:05.960 is the key to innovation and data gives huge insight into both the strengths and vulnerabilities
00:26:12.800 of an economy, of a military, of an intelligence service.
00:26:17.260 So having access to data is a huge advantage.
00:26:20.000 And once again, China has a plan for data dominance and it really has an advantage because
00:26:25.880 it's a techno-authoritarian power and America doesn't have a plan.
00:26:30.580 And so why isn't there a sufficient focus on TikTok?
00:26:34.360 I don't think there's an adequate appreciation of how vulnerable we are by letting TikTok have
00:26:41.320 access to our data.
00:26:42.460 But China has access to our data in a variety of ways that have to be curtailed.
00:26:47.500 And so what I argue for in the book is much more significant privacy restraints.
00:26:52.520 Does it alarm you that if you buy a pair of sneakers online, that for the next three months
00:26:59.620 you get all sorts of advertisements in your feed for sneakers?
00:27:03.440 Well, that just shows you that your data is being sold and you lose control of your data.
00:27:08.500 And you may click the little box at the end of the purchase.
00:27:13.520 But in the end, who knows what that means and where your data actually goes?
00:27:17.620 Well, with China, it's much more significant.
00:27:20.040 One of the things I cite here is a case where our intelligence services identified that China
00:27:24.820 was pulling the Fitbit data of our troops in Afghanistan to be able to monitor what was
00:27:30.400 happening there.
00:27:31.200 It's a huge strategic advantage from an intelligence perspective and it has to be stopped.
00:27:36.460 And so I think understanding the significance of it leads to some obvious requirements to
00:27:41.880 restrict and stop.
00:27:43.600 The other thing is that data drives innovation.
00:27:46.220 So if you look at Operation Warp Speed, one of the reasons that we had such success in
00:27:51.380 developing new vaccines was that the pharma companies were able to share data.
00:27:56.120 And the Chinese don't share data at all. 0.93
00:27:58.560 The Wuhan lab is a perfect example of why we couldn't get to the bottom of what happened
00:28:02.480 with COVID because there was no sharing.
00:28:04.720 So we've got to have a strategy to push back on China, control our data, block China from 0.99
00:28:11.300 getting access to our data and leveraging our data for innovation.
00:28:14.040 Well, and Ben, I often think art imitates life. 0.96
00:28:18.480 As you know, I'm a movie buff and I watch all sorts of stupid series on TV because I download 0.95
00:28:24.080 them on my iPad and every time I'm on an airplane, I watch the series. 0.98
00:28:27.480 One series I'm a fan of is the HBO series Westworld.
00:28:30.960 I don't know if you happen to have seen it, but it's a sci-fi series where part of the premise,
00:28:35.740 so you have these very lifelike robots who you learn as you get into the later seasons,
00:28:40.860 are designed to collect constant data about people and develop models to know what Ben
00:28:48.260 Ferguson would do if faced with every choice in life.
00:28:52.260 And once they have that data, they essentially know how to control you.
00:28:55.500 They know everything.
00:28:56.200 They know who you are.
00:28:57.140 They can literally predict the future.
00:28:58.760 Now, I don't think HBO is necessarily Nostradamus, but it does underscore the power of data.
00:29:08.120 And right now, our federal government is not, it's not even that we're losing this battle.
00:29:15.820 We're not even engaged in this battle.
00:29:17.640 It is a one-sided fight.
00:29:19.560 And so, Dave, let me ask you this.
00:29:22.680 In your judgment, what is China's objective?
00:29:28.220 What are they trying to accomplish?
00:29:30.240 And what are their principal tools for accomplishing it?
00:29:35.060 Well, I think China is essentially trying to create techno-authoritarian dominance.
00:29:41.820 In other words, they're trying to ensure that their economy is the dominant technological force
00:29:47.960 in the world.
00:29:50.100 So that's from a capability perspective.
00:29:52.140 And that obviously is able to ensure a very lethal military.
00:29:59.940 And they're also pursuing a set of foreign policy objectives that will ensure that China
00:30:05.560 really displaces America as the global superpower.
00:30:08.320 Now, I think the evidence that that was the objective would have been a little less certain
00:30:13.620 in the 2012, 2013, 14 timeframe.
00:30:17.960 But with the rise of President Xi, it's become obvious that that's the goal.
00:30:24.360 And one reason we know that is because he said it time and again in his speeches and his
00:30:30.040 documents in terms of where he expects China to be as a global leader.
00:30:34.640 But more than that, we see evidence just in the recent weeks where China has done a brilliant
00:30:42.000 job of advancing its interest in Central America, South America, in the Middle East.
00:30:47.780 And when there's a void in leadership, when people feel uncertain that they can count on
00:30:53.640 America, the Middle East is a great example of Saudi Arabia.
00:30:55.900 Saudi Arabia is one of our tightest allies, has lots of reasons to object to the rise of 0.96
00:31:02.760 Iran.
00:31:03.360 And yet, under President Biden, there's been an opening, an opening that the Chinese have 0.99
00:31:08.800 deftly exploited and is really displacing America as the critical superpower in the Middle
00:31:15.640 East.
00:31:15.840 So the objective is world dominance in displacing the United States and doing so with a techno-authoritarian
00:31:22.520 capability.
00:31:23.240 Well, and a weak American president is profoundly dangerous.
00:31:26.820 It's profoundly dangerous because our enemies step into the void.
00:31:29.840 It's profoundly dangerous because our allies are afraid to rely on us and they move into that
00:31:35.720 void as well.
00:31:36.760 They end up being drawn into the spheres of influence of our enemies.
00:31:40.060 Let me ask you this, Dave, as a follow-up.
00:31:43.660 As you look at it, what are the strengths and weaknesses China has in this battle?
00:31:50.980 And even more importantly, what are the strengths and weaknesses America has?
00:31:55.420 And how do we win?
00:31:57.340 How do we beat China and stop them from achieving their goal of world dominance? 0.99
00:32:03.180 Well, the strengths that the Chinese have is also its weakness in the sense that it's 1.00
00:32:08.840 a top-down, state-driven economy.
00:32:14.020 The techno-authoritarian, what I mean by that is they've got a clear strategy, an economic
00:32:19.280 strategy to dominate in these key technologies.
00:32:22.380 There used to be this notion when I served in the government of dual-use technologies being
00:32:27.120 something we had to monitor carefully.
00:32:29.240 In essence, today, there's a convergence.
00:32:32.580 Artificial intelligence, quantum science, robotics, satellites, they are interchangeably the
00:32:38.020 core of national security and economic vitality.
00:32:41.820 The Chinese recognize that, and they have a very focused strategy to be the dominant player
00:32:47.360 in all those technologies.
00:32:48.760 And the fact that they have a state-controlled economy, they can drive the allocation of capital
00:32:54.100 and the focus on those areas through their state-owned enterprises.
00:32:57.960 So how do we beat them?
00:32:59.400 Now, how do we beat them?
00:33:00.500 Well, we beat them because our economy, and their economy, because of that, has created
00:33:05.940 all sorts of weaknesses.
00:33:07.180 We can beat them because our economy is far more agile, far more entrepreneurial, but we're
00:33:13.000 failing at the moment.
00:33:14.340 We're failing at investing in basic R&D.
00:33:17.420 We're failing at educating our people to be able to compete in these new areas.
00:33:23.520 Semiconductor is a great example.
00:33:24.660 You don't have a college degree to fill some of these key technical jobs, but you do have
00:33:29.520 to have technical training, and we're deeply short in the requirements.
00:33:35.560 And this is what I argue in the book, Superpower in Peril, we need to have the government, and
00:33:41.640 we need to do this with care, but we need to have the government create incentives, tax
00:33:45.880 rebates, and potentially side-by-side investing with the private sector to drive capital into
00:33:52.200 those areas that are going to be most critical for our national security, like artificial 0.99
00:33:55.660 intelligence, as an example.
00:33:57.400 And we need to do that in a way that the government doesn't play any role in picking companies or
00:34:01.480 anything like that.
00:34:02.040 We can't have a China model, and we can't have industrial policy like the Biden administration
00:34:07.740 has put in place.
00:34:08.780 We have to have markets-driven ways to drive private capital to these technologies that matter
00:34:14.440 so much for the future.
00:34:15.660 And with those kinds of things in place, we can win this game, but right now we're on our
00:34:21.100 back foot and we're losing.
00:34:22.200 I want to ask you a final question, and this is about what happens when technology teams
00:34:28.800 up with a country that desperately needs that technology.
00:34:33.120 Obviously, I'm talking about China and Russia, and we see how big of an impact technology can
00:34:39.380 have even on killing innocent people in Ukraine, drones coming in, other type of technology that
00:34:46.440 Russia just doesn't have.
00:34:48.020 This alliance between these two countries are so dangerous for that reason, in my opinion.
00:34:54.760 I want to get your take on that.
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00:35:59.780 Dave, I want you to answer that question about the technology, and you have a country that
00:36:05.700 has a ton of it.
00:36:06.500 You have a country that has hardly any of it and is decades behind.
00:36:11.080 When you put those two together right now, and this is happening in real time, they both
00:36:15.940 bring something to the table.
00:36:17.340 One needs energy.
00:36:18.360 That's something Russia does have.
00:36:20.080 And the other needs to have technology, and that's something that Russia needs.
00:36:24.020 Well, I think that alliance poses real challenges and risks to the United States.
00:36:29.140 But I think our path is clear.
00:36:31.040 The problem is we're just not following it.
00:36:32.580 And let me elaborate on that for a minute.
00:36:34.820 Our defense spending needs to do two things at the same time, and we shouldn't pay too
00:36:40.400 much attention to those who are arguing one or the other.
00:36:43.080 We need to invest in existing platforms because that's core to our military capability to fight
00:36:48.720 a land war or a sea battle in the South China Sea or to support the Ukrainians in their
00:36:56.060 fight against Russia.
00:36:56.880 But we also need to invest in the next generation in a way that's going to make sure that we
00:37:01.820 are out in front of where the Chinese are.
00:37:04.260 And the Chinese have developed lots of capabilities that really threaten us in the South China Sea 1.00
00:37:08.300 and are going to threaten us in anything we do militarily around the world.
00:37:12.900 So we've got to have – and that's not happening under Joe Biden.
00:37:15.840 Right now, the spending is not even keeping up with inflation.
00:37:18.960 And right now, we have leadership that's not able to do those two things at the same
00:37:22.480 time.
00:37:22.920 The second thing we need to do, and just to refer to your point on energy, the Biden
00:37:27.860 administration has taken us absolutely the wrong direction.
00:37:30.660 I mean, I live in Pennsylvania, which has the fourth largest natural gas reserves in
00:37:35.380 the world of Pennsylvania, where our country would be fourth.
00:37:37.340 And the Biden administration has essentially, in one fell swoop, made us less secure because
00:37:43.300 we've become an energy importer, has made us less rich because it's hurt us economically,
00:37:49.740 and has hurt the environment because natural gas out of Pennsylvania is much cleaner than
00:37:54.100 the imports we have today.
00:37:55.440 And that's a key building block of national security, and we've screwed it up.
00:37:59.560 And that, again, has created the opportunity for a partnership between Russia and China,
00:38:05.500 which poses real risk.
00:38:07.380 Well, and let me echo a couple of things Dave just said.
00:38:09.680 Number one, I believe America can and will prevail against China.
00:38:13.900 I think we have enormous assets, the most important of which is freedom.
00:38:17.840 Free enterprise is a much stronger economic system than communism.
00:38:22.600 During the Cold War, the Soviet Union – and by the way, lots of Democrats and left-wing
00:38:27.580 academics – said, oh, the Soviet Union was unbeatable.
00:38:30.220 Jimmy Carter whined that we couldn't compete.
00:38:33.140 And the American free enterprise system was so powerful, but what we needed was American
00:38:38.220 leadership.
00:38:38.900 We needed the clarity that we saw during the Reagan administration to call them out for
00:38:43.840 who they are.
00:38:44.900 When Reagan described the Soviet Union as the evil empire, when he was asked, what's your
00:38:50.700 strategy in the Cold War?
00:38:51.920 He said, it's very simple.
00:38:52.880 We win, they lose.
00:38:53.740 When he said Marxism-Leninism will end up on the ash heap of history, when he said, Mr.
00:38:59.300 Gorbachev, tear down this wall, that clarity and strength of leadership combined with unleashing
00:39:05.460 the American economic engine bankrupted the Soviet Union and won the Cold War without firing
00:39:11.540 a shot.
00:39:12.040 I believe we need to replicate the strategy of the Cold War for dealing with China. 0.96
00:39:16.420 I think Dave is one of the most serious thinkers in the country in doing so.
00:39:20.520 And I'm optimistic.
00:39:21.700 Look, Joe Biden's not going to do it.
00:39:23.200 The Democrats are not going to do it, but the American people are frustrated with the
00:39:27.160 path they're on.
00:39:27.780 They're going to change.
00:39:28.760 As we're wrapping up, though, Ben, I'm going to take a moment of personal privilege and
00:39:33.040 just victory lap for a moment.
00:39:34.400 We started this podcast by victory lapping Stanford Law School in a moment of sanity and free
00:39:40.560 speech breaking out on one of our elite law schools.
00:39:43.420 I'm going to victory lap on the other end now and just point out I'm sitting here hanging
00:39:47.440 out with with two jocks.
00:39:51.900 Listen, and I want to do a shout out to all of our listeners who are geeks and nerds.
00:39:57.180 Maybe you're a theater kid.
00:39:59.300 Look, Ben, for all his aw shucks down to earth nature, was a varsity tennis player at Ole Miss. 0.98
00:40:07.240 And Dave was captain of the damn wrestling team at West Point. 0.95
00:40:11.800 And by the way, as I'm campaigning with him across Pennsylvania, he didn't tell me initially 0.98
00:40:15.740 he was all state in football because that didn't even merit mentioning.
00:40:18.800 It didn't make the list.
00:40:21.260 Me, I was on the debate team.
00:40:23.580 So let's be clear.
00:40:24.680 Both Ben and Dave in high school or college would have stuffed me in the locker.
00:40:28.460 And here we are hanging out on the podcast fighting to save America.
00:40:33.120 So I'm just going to revel for a moment and say to every one of you who wasn't captain of
00:40:38.560 the wrestling team at West Point, there's hope for you.
00:40:41.580 There's hope for me.
00:40:42.480 And there's hope for America.
00:40:43.860 I love it.
00:40:44.920 I love it.
00:40:45.820 Grab Dave's new book, Superpower in Peril, A Battle Plan to Renew America.
00:40:51.220 You can grab it on Amazon or wherever you get your books.
00:40:55.160 I know you're on a book tour as well.
00:40:56.500 So if people want to see where you're headed or where you're going, is that schedule out
00:41:00.220 there so people can find it?
00:41:01.960 Yes, it's out there on DaveMcCormickBook.com.
00:41:05.900 DaveMcCormickBook.com.
00:41:06.780 Dave, it was a pleasure to have you on.
00:41:08.560 Verdict, we've got a lot of news that may be breaking.
00:41:11.420 Don't worry this week.
00:41:12.480 We will have you covered.
00:41:14.080 The center and I will be back here with you in a couple of days.
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