Verdict with Ted Cruz - Bonus： Daily Review with Clay and Buck - Dec 2 2025

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.560 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.620 Welcome, everybody, to the Tuesday, December 2nd edition of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton

00:00:10.880 Show.

00:00:11.340 We are racked and stacked.

00:00:13.640 First order of business, got to get to it right away just to get it on your radar, because

00:00:18.260 we do have, thanks to one of us being a born and raised Tennessean, in fact, a Nashvillian,

00:00:24.860 more specifically.

00:00:25.700 Very important, 7th Congressional District in Tennessee, Afton Bain, trying to get sneaky

00:00:34.340 and take this seat away from the Republican, Mr. Van Epps, and I think that we need to

00:00:42.400 make sure that doesn't happen, my friends.

00:00:43.880 You need to get out and devote.

00:00:45.180 Today is election day.

00:00:46.880 It is happening.

00:00:47.840 Special election, special election.

00:00:50.200 Do not be caught napping on this one.

00:00:53.960 This is important, because if nothing else, they will make fun of and antagonize our good

00:01:01.000 friend Clay every day if he has basically the most left-wing member of Congress in the

00:01:07.260 United States Congress as his home Congress.

00:01:09.300 It's not just Clay.

00:01:10.620 You got a whole, basically the whole Daily Wire, Shapiro doesn't live there, but the rest

00:01:14.780 of Daily Wire is there.

00:01:15.840 Matt Walsh, I think, is in the area.

00:01:17.520 Right?

00:01:17.740 Doesn't Matt Walsh live roughly in your area?

00:01:19.480 Matt Walsh is there, Michael Knowles, our friend Riley Gaines, Tommy Lahren, Candace Owens.

00:01:28.820 So it's a lot.

00:01:29.800 It's a lot.

00:01:30.340 This is a hometown fight here for the 7th Congressional, and all of you who are listening

00:01:36.180 need to get out and need to vote.

00:01:37.940 Let's not give the Democrats something early to celebrate going into this midterm election

00:01:41.520 So I'm telling you to do exactly what I did.

00:01:45.280 I dropped my son off at school, and then I walked right into the precinct there, and I

00:01:51.040 voted.

00:01:51.680 So I'm asking everybody in from the border of Kentucky to the border of Alabama, the 7th

00:01:57.860 Congressional District.

00:01:59.520 I even had a friend text me and say, hey, I thought that that was my district.

00:02:04.220 I tried to go to my polling place.

00:02:05.760 There was no race.

00:02:06.520 There was no election.

00:02:07.340 Okay, you did your part, because this is a new district in many ways, and a lot of people

00:02:15.360 are not aware of this race going on.

00:02:17.680 So I went on with Sean Hannity last night.

00:02:19.960 We've been talking about it like crazy on this program.

00:02:22.780 I feel like I have done everything I can to help make people aware this race is happening, 1.00

00:02:28.260 and today is the last day to go vote.

00:02:31.640 So you've got to get out there and vote.

00:02:33.180 We've talked about the race.

00:02:34.340 You've heard it.

00:02:35.280 You know what's going on.

00:02:36.420 You know the issues here.

00:02:38.000 I'm just going to be giving you reminders today during the show, because, of course,

00:02:40.400 we are live here for three hours with you.

00:02:42.720 It's a great time to be listening to Clay and Buck on your way to go vote in that district.

00:02:47.580 So get out there and get it done.

00:02:48.940 All right, other things.

00:02:49.760 The drug boat controversy and Venezuela, the Caribbean, unusual for it to be quite the scene

00:02:58.960 of action that it is now, but the Caribbean and Venezuela and the drug trade are all very

00:03:05.820 much in the headlines.

00:03:07.520 Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of War, getting a lot of heat, a lot of criticism, no surprise,

00:03:15.380 for these strikes.

00:03:16.580 And there's been some reporting that is now contested about a a double tap, if you will,

00:03:21.500 on one of these boats.

00:03:23.400 I think it was the first boat strike.

00:03:24.560 Actually, we're going to discuss some of that and also the implications for Venezuela, where

00:03:30.000 it is now being said the president has given Maduro.

00:03:33.480 Was it to Friday?

00:03:34.900 It's already Tuesday.

00:03:36.740 Friday deadline.

00:03:38.160 Trump went on a truth posting bonanza last night, posting truths to truth social.

00:03:45.520 We will get into some of those.

00:03:47.060 The cabinet is meeting currently.

00:03:49.300 We'll bring you the highlights of that.

00:03:50.840 The Trump cabinet.

00:03:52.160 Caroline Leavitt also had a fiery press conference yesterday. 1.00

00:03:55.800 We'll bring you some of the best moments from that. 0.89

00:03:58.940 Zoran Mamdani is being a crazy commie.

00:04:00.940 Tom Homan is saying the Biden administration, it wasn't bad enough for them to let 10 million 0.92

00:04:07.140 illegals flood the country, Clay. 0.99

00:04:08.720 They also said, you know what, let's just take in all these Afghans and not vet them at 1.00

00:04:12.660 all.

00:04:13.600 Basically, you raise your hand and say, hey, I did great things for America.

00:04:16.700 You owe me.

00:04:17.340 OK, we'll take you.

00:04:18.500 Hmm.

00:04:19.320 Not a good idea.

00:04:20.680 Not a good idea.

00:04:21.660 But let's talk first about the the drug boat situation here, Clay.

00:04:28.720 Now they're they're making a thing of this.

00:04:30.940 And we've discussed this.

00:04:32.320 They really have wanted to take Secretary Hegseth off of the chessboard from the very

00:04:38.420 beginning.

00:04:38.900 I think the media has gone after Trump.

00:04:42.240 Would you cosign this one in term to Pete has been target number two after Trump.

00:04:47.180 Trump's always target number one.

00:04:49.560 I think that's accurate.

00:04:50.760 I think Kash Patel has moved to the number three spot on the attack list.

00:04:59.120 And I think we've kind of stayed in that range.

00:05:02.180 I think there would be probably a big drop off.

00:05:04.900 I mean, Elon obviously was not in the cabinet, but he was probably the most attacked in the

00:05:10.340 first six months or so of Trump.

00:05:12.320 But in the cabinet, I think Hegseth's one.

00:05:16.080 I think that then Kash Patel is two.

00:05:18.480 And I would you agree with me?

00:05:19.440 There's a huge drop off after those two.

00:05:22.000 I don't even know who the third biggest target would be.

00:05:25.600 It's been like just kind of alternating between Hegseth and and with cash.

00:05:30.960 They have been trying to go after David Sachs as well.

00:05:35.380 Lately, the crypto and AI czar, who we would like to get on this program soon to talk about

00:05:40.260 what he's doing.

00:05:41.340 But he's a very savvy cat and has been not only able to defend himself very effectively

00:05:48.800 without having to do very much, because a lot of the stuff that they're saying is just

00:05:52.480 not true.

00:05:52.960 Other people have been coming to his defense as well, saying he's in this position of he

00:05:57.420 has so much money.

00:05:58.380 Money has very little meaning for him.

00:06:00.080 He actually thinks that he's helping the country.

00:06:02.960 And that's why he's in this special advisory role, special employee to the administration.

00:06:07.900 But we can get more into that, too.

00:06:09.300 But they want it.

00:06:10.080 They want Hegseth out.

00:06:12.900 They want to be able to show the Democrat base, hey, we can still call the shots in the

00:06:18.500 media.

00:06:18.800 We can still get a scalp, so to speak.

00:06:22.120 And so this is where we're talking about not just the boat strikes, which I'm going to

00:06:27.180 tell you right now, Clay, they're going to impeach Trump over this if they win the House.

00:06:32.480 All right.

00:06:32.960 Do you have any doubt whatsoever about this?

00:06:34.720 I don't know that it'll be over this specifically.

00:06:37.020 They're going to impeach him probably over whatever.

00:06:39.940 I mean, they're going to find something to impeach him over.

00:06:42.460 We agree 100 percent that they will impeach him for a third time for something if they

00:06:47.460 win the House.

00:06:48.060 I think this is I think this is top of the list, and that's why they're so dug in on

00:06:51.980 this.

00:06:53.120 I believe that they're going to try to make the case that that these are war crimes.

00:06:57.540 That's exact.

00:06:58.360 And they're already saying it.

00:06:59.280 So that's not a stretch at all.

00:07:01.520 But they also want to use it to have it as a cudgel to force Secretary of War Hegseth out

00:07:09.100 of office.

00:07:09.640 Here is, I mean, for example, here is former Deputy Assistant AG, this is cut eight, John,

00:07:19.220 wait, before we play the cut, so the claim, Clay, so we're clear on this, is that Pete,

00:07:25.740 we'll just call him Pete sometimes because we know him, oversaw and was watching in real

00:07:31.280 time a strike on the first of these boats, and that they hit the boat, you know, JSOC,

00:07:36.700 blew this boat up, and then there was wreckage, there was, you know, pieces of it, and there

00:07:42.320 were a couple of guys who were clinging to the wreckage, and then the order, the affirmative 0.65

00:07:46.360 order was given to send a second missile strike to kill the guys who were clinging to the wreckage.

00:07:51.860 That's the claim.

00:07:52.980 This is disputed.

00:07:54.480 Here is, though, what's being said by people in the media now about this play eight.

00:07:58.700 If you look at the U.S. law of war manual, which is the definitive interpretation of the

00:08:04.240 way we fight the laws of armed conflict for the United States, it says clearly that you

00:08:09.220 are not allowed to give orders that say no survivors.

00:08:12.920 Commanders are not allowed to give orders that say no quarter, and so Hagsaf can't give 0.71

00:08:17.360 that command legally.

00:08:18.460 Also, again, there are gray areas, but one gray area, one area that's not gray, that's

00:08:23.640 clear, is you can't fire on the wounded.

00:08:26.400 You can't kill survivors who can no longer fight.

00:08:29.440 So the admiral should not have obeyed the order that Secretary Hagsaf gave, and even

00:08:35.440 the soldiers who carried out the admiral's orders should not have obeyed.

00:08:41.320 Clay, lawyer Clay, work us through this a bit.

00:08:45.720 Okay, so lawyer Clay, let me first say I obviously don't have firsthand knowledge, but if I were

00:08:52.600 making a case here, there are several angles that I think would be in play.

00:08:56.540 Let me start with defending the decision, if this were what happened, from them.

00:09:02.020 I think they can say, this wasn't a second strike to kill survivors, the boat was still

00:09:06.760 operable, and we were concerned that we hadn't fulfilled the original mission, right?

00:09:11.320 You can hit a boat or a vehicle multiple times if you do not believe you have actually rendered

00:09:18.420 it to be inoperable.

00:09:20.440 In other words, I think there's probably a defense that, hey, the first strike did not

00:09:26.040 do the complete damage that was necessary.

00:09:28.340 We did a second strike on top of it.

00:09:31.020 I also think that there is potentially an issue here where if there are prisoners taken, then

00:09:40.600 there is going to be a legal challenge to whether the president has the authority to undertake

00:09:47.620 these actions, and do we then have an obligation to go rescue the survivors, all these other

00:09:55.100 different things?

00:09:55.880 I think that could be in play.

00:09:58.000 But again, what are the facts?

00:10:00.600 What were the exact orders?

00:10:02.920 What was the intent of the order?

00:10:05.640 Remember, there are all sorts of issues out there where we have an attack that is ordered

00:10:12.220 and it's the wrong attack, right?

00:10:13.820 We talked about this on the program before in Afghanistan.

00:10:16.940 We killed an innocent family.

00:10:19.160 We thought the guy was a terrorist.

00:10:21.280 That obviously got a decent amount of attention.

00:10:24.480 So there are errors of interpretation that occur on these strikes, too.

00:10:28.800 I think it's very hard to know direct intent.

00:10:31.660 Right.

00:10:31.820 Well, we have to know the facts here.

00:10:33.160 The facts are not agreed upon.

00:10:34.420 And I would say one thing that has been established for a long time by the Obama administration,

00:10:40.300 among others, but the Obama administration really accelerated it, was the signature drone

00:10:44.780 strikes where they would hit a target based upon a series of factors that were not 100 percent

00:10:50.900 and clearly not because they did blow up women and children sometimes.

00:10:54.120 And this was going on in Pakistan, a country with which we were not actually at war and

00:11:00.420 a country that we were pretending publicly, at least, for a long time in the Obama years.

00:11:06.540 Oh, no, we're not doing drone strikes there.

00:11:08.760 That's classified.

00:11:09.680 The New York Times was writing front page stories about it.

00:11:12.180 But the Obama administration, Clay, to avoid dealing with it in public, would just say that

00:11:17.640 there's classified.

00:11:18.700 We're not we're not talking about that.

00:11:19.880 That was accepted by all of the people who currently are sitting around angry at the

00:11:24.560 Trump administration or supposedly angry, the Trump administration for what's going

00:11:27.560 on here.

00:11:28.560 So we do know that there are civilian casualties from strikes that are based on presidential

00:11:33.080 authority.

00:11:33.580 That does happen.

00:11:34.460 But as you pointed out, it is accidental here.

00:11:37.480 It would be to the point made by John, you know, John, you.

00:11:41.080 Why do they have John, you making the rounds, everybody?

00:11:43.120 A little bit of history, if we all recall, 20 years back or so.

00:11:46.380 He was the so-called torture memo guy under the Bush administration.

00:11:50.620 So he was tied to enhanced interrogation techniques.

00:11:54.280 So what you have now is the media having former deputy attorney general John, you under Bush,

00:11:59.180 a Republican, saying, if you give an order for no survivors, that's a war crime.

00:12:05.700 And this is from the guy who was like, we got to waterboard people.

00:12:08.440 Sometimes you got to do what you got to do.

00:12:10.880 Um, and again, all of this comes in rising tension with Venezuela.

00:12:17.600 Again, we should mention also there's a cabinet meeting going on right now.

00:12:21.040 Trump is taking questions.

00:12:22.360 We're monitoring it in real time.

00:12:24.940 As you said off the top, the biggest part of this story is there is a report that Trump

00:12:31.780 has given Maduro and his family until Friday to vacate the country.

00:12:36.360 Or potentially we are going to take him out, uh, and, uh, install a more democratic government

00:12:43.260 in Venezuela, which tons of people have a lot of opinions on.

00:12:47.260 Uh, I said yesterday on the program, I stand by it.

00:12:51.480 Um, I think that this can be akin to the strikes that happened in Iran in that they are very strategic

00:12:59.200 and ultimately beneficial for the overall country.

00:13:02.640 Um, and we have tons of you out there that are Venezuelan.

00:13:07.480 I mean, Buck lives in Miami, which is filled with tons of Venezuelan refugees. 0.78

00:13:12.100 As we said yesterday on the program, Venezuela has the largest deposit of oil, certainly in

00:13:17.600 the Western hemisphere, uh, and used to be a thriving country that was very, very successful

00:13:24.320 before the Maduro and, uh, that regime came into power.

00:13:27.760 Third richest country in the world, uh, after the United States and Canada per capita at

00:13:33.460 one point in recent member.

00:13:35.580 Yeah.

00:13:35.860 So yeah, Venezuela should be doing great.

00:13:37.940 It's not.

00:13:39.120 Turns out that communism ruins everything guys who could have known.

00:13:42.480 Well, anybody who pays attention to history, we'll talk more about this though, because

00:13:45.920 I know on the one hand, we hate commies. 0.97

00:13:48.940 On the other hand, we also hate regime change and rebuilding operations for other countries.

00:13:54.220 And there are people that are concerned that that may be something that we face here sooner

00:13:59.700 than later when it comes to Venezuela.

00:14:01.080 We'll discuss.

00:14:02.060 Want to hear from you as well.

00:14:03.240 Also, if we have any Venezuelan refugees or Venezuelan Americans, Clay, listening right 0.89

00:14:09.100 now, if you want to weigh in on this one, uh, I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts

00:14:13.180 on, should we topple Maduro?

00:14:15.240 Should we just keep the pressure on?

00:14:16.920 How involved should we be?

00:14:18.320 What do you think is going to happen here?

00:14:20.980 No doubt.

00:14:21.620 Okay.

00:14:22.140 Yes, no doubt.

00:14:23.300 Indeed.

00:14:23.840 Uh, if you believe in the life of a child, uh, as a rather, if you believe the life of

00:14:28.300 an unborn child is precious and all of you in the pro-life community certainly do, you

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00:14:38.400 right now, one in four pregnancies ends in abortion.

00:14:41.080 That's, that's just a horrific fact, but it's true.

00:14:43.500 Thousands of lives, lives lost every single day.

00:14:46.140 We can change hearts and minds.

00:14:47.800 We can change laws.

00:14:48.580 That takes time.

00:14:49.600 In the meantime, lives are being lost.

00:14:51.520 How do we save lives right now?

00:14:53.140 This Christmas season, how do you go to bed at night knowing that you helped to save the

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00:15:52.160 Saving America.

00:15:54.200 One thought at a time.

00:15:56.160 Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.

00:15:58.800 Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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00:16:28.640 Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on iHeartRadio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

00:16:34.220 Welcome back in.

00:16:35.280 Clay Travis, Buck Sexton Show.

00:16:37.080 We're going to take a bunch of calls on this because a lot of you have a variety of takes.

00:16:40.760 Bobby in Maine up first says he was in military intelligence.

00:16:46.740 What's your take on the Venezuelan boat strike story?

00:16:51.140 So, Clay and Buck, here's the bottom line.

00:16:52.960 This is Bobby Charles.

00:16:53.860 I was in charge of all counter-narcotics in 03-04-05 as the Assistant Secretary of State.

00:16:58.900 Also 10 years Naval Intelligence and an attorney.

00:17:01.840 The bottom line is what they are doing is well within the law.

00:17:05.100 Number one, and I think, Clay, you probably or both of you know this.

00:17:07.720 There is a legal opinion somewhere justifying exactly what they're doing.

00:17:11.640 Number two, there would be no finish-off order.

00:17:13.740 Hegseth was in the military.

00:17:15.260 He knows very well you can't do that.

00:17:16.920 But here are the two facts people don't know.

00:17:18.480 The United States government has long supported shoot-down policies by foreign countries, including Peru, in which we shot down any plane that we had cued intelligence for or we allowed them to shoot down the plane if it was known to be carrying counter-narcotics and avoiding interception.

00:17:34.520 The second thing is in our littoral waters, legally, we have Coast Guard Blackhawks up there, Jayhawks, that are fully armed, and they have a sniper with a sling in the open door in order to shoot out the engines of these boats.

00:17:48.640 So point number one, the law, they are well within the law when they take an enemy combatant designated as a foreign terrorist organization that does not stop.

00:17:58.860 They have cued intelligence.

00:18:00.060 They know they can hit it.

00:18:01.060 They hit it.

00:18:01.780 They would be outside the law if they did a finish-off order for survivors.

00:18:05.960 I guarantee you they did not do that.

00:18:07.800 Can I just say, I think that you're saying, sir, you have deep expertise in this.

00:18:11.380 I think we're all in agreement here.

00:18:13.020 We think it's lawful to do the strikes, but it wouldn't be lawful to do a finish-off order if the guys were floating in the water.

00:18:20.320 So Hegseth was a military officer.

00:18:23.780 He knows very well what the orders are.

00:18:26.200 He knows the UCMJ probably inside out.

00:18:29.680 Right.

00:18:30.080 And I don't think he gave that order.

00:18:31.560 So, again, I think we're all, keep him, keep him.

00:18:34.040 Let's keep talking to this guy.

00:18:34.960 Stick on.

00:18:37.040 While we're spending time with family this holiday season and Buck is stuck in a sound booth recording his new book,

00:18:43.020 you can listen to us on the podcast.

00:18:45.920 Clay, don't rub it in.

00:18:46.900 But that's right.

00:18:47.580 Just fire up the iHeartRadio app and kick back with the Sunday hang.

00:18:51.460 Guaranteed laps.

00:18:52.560 Or check out any of our other great hosts in the Clay and Buck podcast network.

00:18:56.940 There's so much content, you won't even miss us.

00:18:59.840 But we'll miss you and look forward to speaking with you again in the new year.

00:19:02.980 Until then, shield time.

00:19:04.820 As we finished off the last hour, we were talking about the boat strikes off Venezuela.

00:19:09.420 A bunch of you want to weigh in on those.

00:19:14.340 And I was saying, again, this is me behaving as a lawyer, finish them off can mean multiple things.

00:19:22.940 It can mean, to me, finishing off the boat so that it's no longer able to do what it was intended to do.

00:19:31.240 So that the drugs are not there still floating that could be picked up by another boat.

00:19:36.700 And so what is and is not intended by the orders is likely to be an issue.

00:19:43.780 Right now, I don't think the communication has been clear, Buck, as to exactly what the story is.

00:19:52.260 Just that the White House has said, hey, we support the admiral here.

00:19:57.080 The president supports the admiral.

00:19:59.180 The secretary of war supports the admiral and his ability to make decisions on the ground there.

00:20:04.620 We had a call from an individual who was still with us.

00:20:09.900 And that is I want to make sure that I get his name right.

00:20:13.040 I got so many different text messages in here.

00:20:16.060 That is, let's see, Bobby Charles from Maine.

00:20:19.640 He's running for governor, by the way.

00:20:21.680 The primaries in June.

00:20:23.620 Not a bad not a bad way to get people to know about the primary here, Bobby.

00:20:28.440 You got a pretty big radio show.

00:20:29.900 So you're a smooth operator.

00:20:31.660 I feel like you guys invited this one, so I'm just going to pick it up.

00:20:36.520 Oh, we did.

00:20:37.320 We did.

00:20:37.740 All right.

00:20:38.120 So, Bobby, when I say what finish them off means, this is me being a lawyer.

00:20:43.780 Finish them off can mean a lot of different things.

00:20:45.680 It can mean finish the boat off.

00:20:46.900 It can mean finish the survivors off.

00:20:49.360 That seems like a pretty clear defense.

00:20:51.420 If I were advising Secretary of War Hegseth, if I were advising President Trump, if I were

00:20:56.400 advising the admiral in this case as an attorney representing them, I would say go ahead and

00:21:01.740 get your story out there.

00:21:03.280 What does finish them off mean?

00:21:04.840 We wanted to end the threat that this boat brought to bear.

00:21:09.280 We had not done that yet.

00:21:10.980 It was still floating out there.

00:21:12.660 There was the possibility the drugs could be picked up.

00:21:15.220 And so we ordered a second strike to take out that boat.

00:21:19.560 Is that a valid argument from your perspective based on your knowledge of the rules of engagement?

00:21:26.800 Yes.

00:21:27.640 So let me give you my perspective.

00:21:29.380 I was a U.S. Court of Appeals clerk after Columbia Law School long before being Assistant

00:21:33.900 Secretary managing counter-narcotics programs around the world, among which were shoot-down

00:21:37.980 programs in Peru and Columbia in which we gave orders.

00:21:42.800 We didn't give them, I worked with the heads of Southcom who gave them, but those field

00:21:46.740 commanders gave orders to finish off planes that were in the sky carrying drugs.

00:21:51.620 We had cued intelligence.

00:21:52.740 They refused to comply.

00:21:54.020 They continued moving forward.

00:21:55.480 The same way if you were in World War II on a battlefield and a tank is coming at you

00:21:59.860 and you've disabled the gun, but the tank keeps rolling, you have every right to stop

00:22:03.740 it.

00:22:04.300 So I am believing, and I think they should ask for this, and I think everything else is a

00:22:08.120 false bogey.

00:22:09.200 There is a legal opinion, I guarantee you.

00:22:11.240 As a former Navy intelligence guy for 10 years and an assistant secretary doing counter-narcotics,

00:22:16.220 there is a legal opinion in the file that says something like this.

00:22:19.880 That organization is identified as an FTO.

00:22:23.200 It is a foreign terrorist organization trafficking drugs.

00:22:26.020 Because it is an FTO, it is by definition engaging in premeditated, politically motivated acts

00:22:32.160 of violence against non-combatant targets.

00:22:34.740 Because it is doing that, you have every right to hit and destroy the drugs and to hit and

00:22:38.900 destroy the boat, and there is no, under the rules of law in the UCMJ, there is no requirement

00:22:43.640 that you warn the combatant that you're going to do that.

00:22:45.900 If you hit half the boat, and we currently have policies that the U.S. Coast Guard uses

00:22:51.480 in our littoral waters with snipers, they don't call them snipers, but they're snipers.

00:22:55.740 They have big firearms in a sling dedicated to taking out the engines of a boat, of a go-fast

00:23:02.020 drug boat.

00:23:02.520 They've been there for 25 years.

00:23:03.760 If we feel that we have not hit and disabled and finished the task of a combatant coming

00:23:11.060 at us, we have every right to do that.

00:23:12.600 You do not have a right to then shoot folks in the water.

00:23:15.240 But I will guarantee you that there is no legal opinion in the file in the Defense Department

00:23:20.120 if they subpoena it.

00:23:21.000 I did oversight for five years with Gingrich.

00:23:23.200 There is not going to be a legal opinion that says you can finish off people in the water.

00:23:26.460 It will say just what I said here, and that is what they're doing.

00:23:29.460 And so it is completely lawful, and it's protecting the national security of the United States

00:23:33.200 and every single American, including in states like Maine, where we had 10,000 overdoses last

00:23:37.620 year.

00:23:38.320 Okay, that's a perfect argument.

00:23:40.380 Why isn't the Trump administration making that argument right now?

00:23:44.300 I'm guessing that as much as I'm a lawyer, I hate lawyers.

00:23:48.360 You know, if you're Irish, you get to say words about the Irish, and I am that too. 0.98

00:23:51.540 If you're a lawyer, you get to hate lawyers.

00:23:53.880 There's lawyers in the Pentagon going, hey, we can't release that.

00:23:57.200 That's a legal document.

00:23:58.100 Hey, we've got to back off.

00:23:59.460 We can't get the legal argument involved in politics.

00:24:01.340 Yeah, what I think Hegseth should do is just say, look, I have every legal right to be

00:24:05.560 doing what I'm doing.

00:24:06.180 That's what I'm saying.

00:24:07.200 Hegseth is not, we know him, he's not an attorney, but what I'm saying is I would, if

00:24:11.900 I were Secretary of War Hegseth or I was advising him, I would be telling him to say exactly what

00:24:18.260 you just told us right now at the press conference, because I think it would end this story

00:24:25.000 instantaneously.

00:24:26.280 Unfortunately, that hasn't happened, Clay, and so now they have the back and forth of

00:24:31.140 different versions of what happened, and what was this, and what was that.

00:24:34.620 That's my question for Bobby.

00:24:35.900 Why wouldn't he make that case?

00:24:37.460 Well, because they've screwed up the comms, just like they screwed up the comms.

00:24:40.640 I mean, I'm going to jump in and just say, because they messed up, because this is where

00:24:43.980 we are right now, just like they did.

00:24:46.700 You know, the truth is, your point is well taken.

00:24:49.940 You take the world as it is.

00:24:51.260 What has transpired up to this moment in time has, the future is for us to define.

00:24:55.760 They should do the press conference, take it verbatim what I said.

00:24:58.980 That's the truth.

00:24:59.840 I don't know the exact wording of the legal memo, but I guarantee before they took one 0.93

00:25:05.100 shot, there is a legal memo there.

00:25:07.140 They should release it.

00:25:08.060 They should say, we have every right to have done what we did.

00:25:10.640 Let's clarify the record.

00:25:12.480 And the facts are the facts.

00:25:14.880 You know?

00:25:15.120 Yeah.

00:25:15.420 Look, I think we're all aligned on this.

00:25:17.600 I just want to be clear, Bobby, because there are people out there who are saying, oh,

00:25:21.140 no, when I say people, I mean online, you'll see people who don't know anything who are

00:25:25.360 saying, they're clinging to the wreckage. 0.93

00:25:27.100 We could mow them down, too.

00:25:28.380 No, that's not true.

00:25:29.700 But what you've laid out is the legal justification for what we believe happened here, which we're

00:25:35.100 all aligned with.

00:25:35.920 But I just want to be very clear, because I have seen the argument made by people with

00:25:40.180 followings and by people who are part of this conversation, if we have to finish off people

00:25:43.740 in the water, so be it.

00:25:44.680 No, that's actually not how this goes, and that's not what was going on here.

00:25:50.400 You're absolutely right.

00:25:51.720 And in World War II, there were bad mistakes made on both sides.

00:25:55.440 This is one where we don't have to make a mistake.

00:25:57.440 That would be a mistake.

00:25:58.320 We're not going to do it.

00:25:58.880 I'm going to tell you, though, as a guy running for governor in Maine, and I'm up by double

00:26:02.100 digits on everybody, but the reality is right now, people throw crap at you that is untrue

00:26:06.980 every day, and you just have to keep responding.

00:26:09.720 And that's what Hegseth, I suspect, will do.

00:26:11.680 And that's what Trump does every day, and that's what you've got to do.

00:26:14.460 You beat, you know, it's like the old Supreme Court case said, right?

00:26:17.180 You beat bad speech with good speech.

00:26:18.820 You just keep going.

00:26:19.360 Bobby, we're leveraging your expertise here a lot, but I actually want to transition you

00:26:22.640 because you said you transitioned the topic.

00:26:25.780 I should be clear.

00:26:26.980 I'm going to transition the topic.

00:26:30.020 You've got to be clear these days.

00:26:32.080 You said you oversaw or were involved in overseeing narco programs in the Caribbean.

00:26:36.200 One, how effective do you think taking out these boats is actually, and two, talk to

00:26:41.780 us about Venezuela.

00:26:42.800 You would have a very important perspective on what's going on there with Maduro, the

00:26:47.840 narco trafficking, the possibility of the overthrow.

00:26:51.300 Talk us through some of that.

00:26:53.700 Yeah.

00:26:54.060 So I have had multiple hats in life, blessed a thousand ways from Sunday.

00:26:58.100 But the reality is, yes, I did oversight for five years for Gingrich.

00:27:02.440 I was his top oversight investigator looking at counter-narcotics, but also the Pentagon

00:27:06.860 justice.

00:27:07.540 I did the Waco hearings, all that.

00:27:09.720 So at the end of the day, our counter-narcotics policy in the Caribbean was effective when

00:27:14.920 we could create 25 percent deterrence.

00:27:17.180 So when we could cover 25 percent of the Caribbean at a time, incidentally, when there was no land

00:27:22.620 bridge, as in there was no coming up through the Mexico Pan-American Highway, what we did

00:27:28.080 is we shut down the Caribbean.

00:27:29.100 By shutting down 25 percent, creating enough uncertainty that the traffickers thought they

00:27:33.920 would get more losses than it was worth, they shifted to the land bridge.

00:27:38.420 What they will do right now, it is relatively effective because it's creating that one thing.

00:27:42.920 We know, again, let's go back to World War II.

00:27:45.060 Everything is about deterrence versus appeasement.

00:27:47.560 You do nothing, you appease it.

00:27:49.380 Same thing with people coming into this country. 0.99

00:27:51.220 You do nothing, you appease the behavior, appease bad behavior.

00:27:54.080 You deter it, all of a sudden they're going to stop coming.

00:27:56.140 All of a sudden they're going to stop shipping drugs through the EPAC, Eastern Pacific, which

00:27:59.660 is where some of this is happening, or through the Caribbean.

00:28:02.660 And so deterrence works.

00:28:04.140 It absolutely works.

00:28:05.300 But you always have to remember, it's like trying to block a water that is being pulled

00:28:09.660 by gravity down.

00:28:10.580 It's going to look for another way around.

00:28:12.460 The bad guys always look for another way around.

00:28:14.840 So you've got to constantly be one step ahead.

00:28:17.280 You know, we don't ever win anything finally and decisively.

00:28:20.560 You know, what you do is you manage the process so that you're always one step ahead.

00:28:26.780 That's why we've not had another 9-11. 0.70

00:28:28.580 We've always stayed one step ahead.

00:28:30.180 Same thing is true with the drug traffickers.

00:28:31.880 What I love that he's doing, what Trump is doing, is he's calling a spade a spade.

00:28:36.780 He's saying, we lose more people every year to this foreign drug infusion, this chemical

00:28:44.020 weapon brought into this country, than we lost in all of Vietnam.

00:28:46.760 We lose 100,000 more or less every year to this.

00:28:51.160 They are a threat to the United States. 0.79

00:28:53.540 We are going to treat them as FTOs.

00:28:55.480 We are going to combat them.

00:28:57.140 And so ultimately what you do is you start to destroy the industrial strength of the cartel.

00:29:03.400 There are Colombian cartels.

00:29:04.780 There are Mexican cartels.

00:29:06.560 And you want, you're never going to get rid of all crime.

00:29:08.920 But what you want to do is drive it down to a level that's so low that most people don't

00:29:13.040 have to engage it.

00:29:13.860 And here in the state of Maine, I will tell you, I am going to thoroughly support law enforcement.

00:29:18.260 I am going to thoroughly stop these foreign drug traffickers from getting in here. 1.00

00:29:21.500 And then, having created deterrence, I'm going to put the rest of the population that's

00:29:25.780 addicted on a get well, stay well plan, get real treatment programs in here and solve

00:29:29.160 it.

00:29:29.400 That is what Trump is doing in all the places that he's been allowed to do it.

00:29:33.100 And by the way, I will mobilize the National Guard, too, if needed, to support law enforcement.

00:29:37.980 Bobby, thanks for all of this.

00:29:39.600 I mean, this is well said.

00:29:40.960 You got my vote.

00:29:41.540 You got to be the next governor of Maine, buddy.

00:29:43.140 So you got to come back and talk to us more about this.

00:29:45.320 We're very impressed here.

00:29:47.840 Thank you, guys.

00:29:48.560 Call me anytime.

00:29:49.400 And I love talking to Greg.

00:29:50.620 So we're good to go.

00:29:51.900 All right.

00:29:52.160 Producer Greg is the man.

00:29:53.240 So you have good taste in radio and radio producers.

00:29:55.800 Well done, sir.

00:29:56.740 And we'll talk to you again soon.

00:29:58.160 But Clay, I just want to say, our legal analysis was all spot on.

00:30:02.440 So there's that, you know, before.

00:30:03.960 And also, again, I think we hit on this correctly.

00:30:07.620 It's a communication issue.

00:30:09.240 And I just I understand.

00:30:11.360 And he pointed out lawyers can sometimes say, well, we can't talk about this publicly yet,

00:30:16.120 sir.

00:30:17.380 I would talk about it publicly if I were Pete Hegg, Seth.

00:30:19.820 I would put this story to bed.

00:30:21.480 I would say that this was the goal.

00:30:23.460 We had the authority to do it.

00:30:24.940 And it vanishes if you tell the story the way that he just did.

00:30:28.360 It's a version of it's not the crime.

00:30:30.800 It's the cover up.

00:30:31.760 There was no crime here.

00:30:33.320 They are acting in the lawful authority.

00:30:35.140 But if you have differing narratives about what happened, even if it's in good faith,

00:30:40.740 but there's daylight between what the, you know, Trump White House says and what Secretary

00:30:46.180 Hegg says or whatever, then that becomes the story.

00:30:49.580 And they just say, see, they're hiding.

00:30:51.160 They're changing there.

00:30:52.040 So you just it's a comms issue to be very clear on this so that everybody understands,

00:30:57.540 because what the Democrats did, their biggest story this week is the, you know, the war crimes

00:31:01.720 thing.

00:31:01.980 What they don't want to be talking about is the Biden Afghan withdrawal slash importing

00:31:08.460 people with no vetting whatsoever, including the terrorists who just killed two national

00:31:12.400 or killed one and grievously wounded another National Guard member.

00:31:15.540 That's what they don't want to be talking about this week.

00:31:17.560 Correct.

00:31:18.160 And you can limit their ability to drive the narrative by telling your story in the best,

00:31:24.340 most effective way possible.

00:31:25.660 And I don't think that has occurred yet.

00:31:27.820 But I think if they said what Bobby said, what I said, what you have said, I think it

00:31:31.960 would go a long way towards putting this story to rest.

00:31:35.440 I want to tell you, fighting in Ukraine.

00:31:37.480 We'll talk about this a little bit there.

00:31:39.480 Right now are meetings going on in Russia to try to end the war in Ukraine.

00:31:43.840 Both sides, Russia and Ukraine, are acknowledging loss of lives.

00:31:47.580 More than a thousand soldiers each day.

00:31:50.520 Far from the front lines, life can feel very difficult, different sort of way for people

00:31:54.960 like Maria, 85 year old woman of Jewish faith living in Ukraine.

00:31:58.360 Her needs are severe.

00:32:00.120 She's one of the many Ukrainian citizens in need of food, medicine and assistance with

00:32:04.580 heating bills.

00:32:05.280 And when war first broke out in Ukraine, many nonprofit organizations made the needs of

00:32:10.000 Ukrainian citizens a priority.

00:32:11.660 There was and still is a great need for humanitarian effort.

00:32:16.020 Today, many of the nonprofit organizations have moved on, but not the International Fellowship

00:32:21.400 of Christians and Jews, the IFCJ, they're still there continuing to do what they can to help

00:32:27.600 the Jewish faith in Ukraine, particularly the elderly through the International Fellowship

00:32:32.280 of Christians and Jews.

00:32:33.200 With your donations, you can bring hope to those in need.

00:32:35.900 Your gift of twenty five dollars will help provide a food box packed full of life saving

00:32:41.300 essentials that will help feed families and individuals feeling them especially ignored

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00:32:52.860 That's 888-488-4325.

00:32:55.900 You can also give online at fellowshipgift.org.

00:32:59.520 That's fellowshipgift.org.

00:33:02.220 Want to be in the know when you're on the go?

00:33:05.540 The Team 47 podcast.

00:33:07.940 Trump highlights from the week, Sundays at noon Eastern in the Clay and Buck podcast feed.

00:33:13.020 Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:33:16.680 Welcome back in, Clay Travis, Buck Sexton Show.

00:33:21.800 All of you hanging out with us.

00:33:25.060 This is still live, right?

00:33:27.040 If I'm not mistaken, the White House cabinet meeting has now been going on, Buck, for the

00:33:33.660 entirety of our radio show.

00:33:35.720 We are competing with the Trump show head to head.

00:33:39.760 It's another radio show, Clay.

00:33:41.100 That's really what it is.

00:33:41.900 Trump has been doing over two hours straight, along with his cabinet, taking questions.

00:33:48.280 It does feel to some extent, Buck, like this is a response to the New York Times saying

00:33:55.320 that he doesn't have the vitality and the vigor that he used to.

00:33:59.400 Maybe I'm wrong on this, but then a couple of days later, he's like, all right, let's just

00:34:04.160 do a three hour potentially press conference that Fox News has been carrying straight through

00:34:11.760 and even CNN now has elected to go live to Trump.

00:34:17.700 So we're continuing to monitor that.

00:34:19.820 I just sent a couple of clips to producer Greg as Hegseth has weighed in more on the on the

00:34:28.980 boat strike off Venezuela, which evidently, Buck, happened September 2nd.

00:34:34.840 So this was one of the earliest strikes that occurred on the boats.

00:34:39.440 I do think that matters here.

00:34:41.340 I don't know that we've given a date, but he did in his answer, which we will have soon.

00:34:45.940 Um, vote, go vote, go vote.

00:34:50.020 If you are in the seventh congressional district in the state of Tennessee, it is election day.

00:34:56.340 I went this morning.

00:34:57.840 I took my fifth grader to school.

00:35:00.480 I dropped him off and then I went into the polling place right there at his school.

00:35:05.980 My wife is working all day at, uh, as a volunteer at this local, uh, polling center.

00:35:12.980 Um, I think I mentioned this before, Buck, but you know, Laura quite well, she was really

00:35:17.660 fired up at the, uh, at the overall, um, security issues associated with elections.

00:35:25.420 And so she said, well, heck, I want to see this for myself.

00:35:29.080 So she decided that she would volunteer and watch as the election is taking place here locally.

00:35:35.780 By the way, president Trump standing up right now, we are no longer competing with the Trump

00:35:40.900 show.

00:35:41.260 He has just walked out after a marathon two plus hour, uh, session with his cabinet.

00:35:48.280 Uh, and it is just now breaking up, uh, in real time.

00:35:53.580 All right.

00:35:53.980 This is funny.

00:35:55.420 Marco Rubio, uh, secretary of state, Buck, there are many different super serious stories that

00:36:02.180 are going on, but you know, I trust college football fans implicitly.

00:36:08.440 In addition to everything else that was discussed, Marco Rubio came out and said, if the Miami

00:36:15.780 hurricanes, your new hometown team, Buck, if they're not in the playoff, he's furious and

00:36:22.360 he's going to put president Trump in charge of next year's playoff.

00:36:25.740 This is funny.

00:36:26.400 This did just happen among many other things in the, uh, in the, uh, cabinet meeting.

00:36:32.980 Listen to this.

00:36:34.000 And I know I'm last, so I wanted to be fast, but there was a lot to cover.

00:36:37.000 I do want to say this is the most wonderful, magical time of the year by that.

00:36:41.440 Of course, I'm referring to the college football playoffs.

00:36:44.000 And, um, I just want to say this as a point of personal privilege, if, if, and I'm a Florida

00:36:49.280 Gator, but if the university of Miami gets screwed out of the college football playoffs,

00:36:52.940 after going 10 and 2 and beating Notre Dame, the whole thing should be scrapped and you're

00:36:56.440 going to have to take over it next year.

00:37:00.100 Marco better watch out.

00:37:01.220 He could get another job.

00:37:02.260 Maybe he becomes like SEC commissioner or something.

00:37:05.640 In addition to, I think he's secretary of state, national security advisor, USAID director.

00:37:11.760 The Marco portfolio is a remarkable thing to behold.

00:37:15.340 Um, your wife is a Florida Gator grad, uh, Marco Rubio's son, um, is a football player,

00:37:24.620 uh, for the Florida Gators.

00:37:26.080 So I was actually texting with him over the weekend, nothing at all to do with serious things,

00:37:31.420 just about the college football coaching, uh, searches going on.

00:37:35.640 Uh, Marco Rubio is doing a fantastic job.

00:37:38.520 Uh, but, uh, so many different topics.

00:37:41.980 I did think it was funny that he decided that he wanted to weigh in on that because

00:37:45.860 Marco Rubio is a Miami guy, big, uh, college football fan, which is one reason we get along

00:37:50.580 so well.

00:37:51.060 Do we have from producer Greg yet?

00:37:53.280 The clip that I sent in, uh, of Hegseth, uh, giving more details.

00:37:58.580 It's not in yet, Buck.

00:38:00.020 Okay.

00:38:00.380 We will have, this is the lead story.

00:38:02.040 Now for people out there who are saying, what are you doing here?

00:38:04.380 Why are you talking about that?

00:38:05.260 It's a lead story everywhere.

00:38:06.260 We want to make sure that we're addressing it well, CNN, MSNBC, and Fox news, basically

00:38:13.000 all covering this as the top news story of the day.

00:38:18.240 Yeah.

00:38:19.060 Well, because the implications of this, first of all, aren't just about the attempts to

00:38:24.040 undermine and attack Hegseth and with him, this administration.

00:38:26.640 There's also this issue of what this does to Venezuela and increasingly we have what seems

00:38:35.820 to be a de facto regime change policy in place.

00:38:41.520 Now, regime change and nation building are not necessarily things that go hand in hand,

00:38:47.440 but they often do.

00:38:49.440 And so this is going to start to bring up some very important and difficult conversations,

00:38:54.620 I think, if Maduro goes.

00:38:55.520 But here we have Secretary Hegseth, just moments ago, getting into the details of this strike

00:39:01.720 that has been widely reported on.

00:39:03.920 Let's listen to the Secretary of War.

00:39:05.640 I didn't stick around for the hour and two hours, whatever, where all the sensitive site

00:39:10.440 exploitation digitally occurs.

00:39:12.360 So I moved on to my next meeting.

00:39:14.040 A couple of hours later, I learned that that commander had made the, which he had the complete

00:39:18.280 authority to do.

00:39:19.700 And by the way, Admiral Bradley made the correct decision to ultimately sink the boat and eliminate

00:39:24.880 the threat.

00:39:25.520 He sunk the boat, sunk the boat and eliminated the threat.

00:39:30.440 And it was the right call.

00:39:32.140 We have his back.

00:39:33.300 And the American people are safer because narco-terrorists know you can't bring drugs through the water and

00:39:40.740 eventually on land if necessary to the American people.

00:39:44.300 We will eliminate that threat and we're proud to do it.

00:39:46.960 So you didn't see any survivors, to be clear, after that first strike?

00:39:50.140 I did not personally see survivors.

00:39:52.600 Survivors, but I stand because the thing was on fire.

00:39:56.060 It was exploded and fire and smoke.

00:39:58.100 You can't see anything.

00:39:58.880 You got digital.

00:39:59.360 This is called the fog of war.

00:40:01.140 This is what you and the press don't understand.

00:40:04.080 You sit in your air-conditioned offices or up on Capitol Hill and you nitpick and you plant

00:40:09.060 fake stories in the Washington Post about kill everybody, phrases on anonymous sources not

00:40:14.480 based in anything, not based in any truth at all.

00:40:17.500 And then you want to throw out really irresponsible terms about American heroes, about the judgment

00:40:23.180 that they made.

00:40:23.840 I wrote a whole book on this topic because of what politicians and the press does to war

00:40:28.440 fighters.

00:40:29.200 President Trump has empowered commanders, commanders to do what is necessary, which is dark and

00:40:34.500 difficult things in the dead of night on behalf of the American people.

00:40:37.940 We support them and we will stop the poisoning of the American people. 0.97

00:40:41.480 Okay, that's a better answer.

00:40:43.300 I still think, and this is the lawyer in me, Buck, I want a clear, concise, direct description

00:40:50.300 of what the admiral did.

00:40:53.600 And it may be the case that they haven't talked in detail about this decision, but that would

00:40:58.580 help to end this story, I believe, once and for all.

00:41:01.900 It's hard to sound objective talking about Pete because you and I both know Pete and we're

00:41:07.520 personally friends with Pete.

00:41:09.480 I've known Pete now for almost 15 years.

00:41:11.520 Uh, so I just, I, I say that because I think we need to be honest about where we come from,

00:41:19.040 uh, especially talking to some of these public figures who we know on a personal level.

00:41:23.080 And I know Pete loves the country and I know he loves, uh, the war fighters, uh, in the United

00:41:27.840 States military, uh, like his own family.

00:41:30.780 And so I bring all of that to this discussion too.

00:41:35.420 All right.

00:41:35.920 That said, um, I think that the problem that he's running into here a little bit, Clay,

00:41:41.800 is when you start to say things again, I'm looking at this, like the enemy here in the

00:41:46.900 media, which he's addressing very clearly. 1.00

00:41:48.780 He's saying, you guys are a bunch of jerks. 1.00

00:41:50.440 I don't understand anything. 1.00

00:41:51.220 But when he says things like fog of war, that they're going to take that now and say, so

00:41:57.900 you don't know if there were survivors or not.

00:42:00.500 That's what they're, that's the next stage.

00:42:02.680 Now, I think in this process, it went from the order to kill survivors to now you're saying

00:42:08.700 fog of war.

00:42:09.540 Again, I understand from the very beginning.

00:42:12.900 So you don't need to call in and say, what he did is totally lawful.

00:42:14.900 I believe that Pete Hegseth, uh, and the, and the JSOC here joined special operations

00:42:19.540 command.

00:42:20.000 I think they operated in a lawful fashion.

00:42:22.920 I am just saying the way this is turning into a story is leaving bits of daylight here with

00:42:30.780 the facts as presented, the narrative as constructed from the top of the, of the Pentagon hierarchy.

00:42:38.240 And when you say things like, you know, fog of war, I get it.

00:42:41.520 I know what he's saying, but they're going to say, so you don't even know if there were,

00:42:46.600 you know, there was smoke, you know, there could have been survivors.

00:42:48.920 You know, this is the next, this is the next phase of it.

00:42:51.820 I think totally.

00:42:53.220 And this is why I say, and this is me speaking as a former criminal defense attorney, your

00:43:00.160 story has to be consistent and you have to stick to it and you have to put it out there.

00:43:05.300 And it has to be ironclad in terms of you being able to prove what exactly it is.

00:43:11.900 Um, and I just think the story of we had to hit the boat a second time because it had

00:43:19.460 not been completely obliterated and there were still drugs there and they could have brought

00:43:25.100 another boat in and gotten those drugs off and they could have still come to the United

00:43:28.760 States.

00:43:29.220 The purpose of the mission was to ensure that that boat is completely obliterated and

00:43:35.300 there are no drugs that survived the attack.

00:43:37.580 The first attack it did.

00:43:39.020 We put in a second one.

00:43:40.580 That's what happened.

00:43:41.540 I don't know anything about the people that were on the boat.

00:43:43.920 Frankly, I don't care about them because they were terrorists trying to kill people in the 0.89

00:43:47.800 United States.

00:43:48.760 Uh, they may have survived.

00:43:49.800 They may not have, but I know that boat didn't and the drugs are gone.

00:43:52.700 That's my answer.

00:43:53.760 That's a pretty good one.

00:43:55.120 I wish it had been given.

00:43:56.600 Yeah.

00:43:57.720 Stop the threat.

00:43:59.220 This is a threat that's identified, a threat that we can lawfully use the United States 0.59

00:44:03.020 military to address and secretary of war, Hegseth and his, uh, those below him in the

00:44:09.000 chain of command who were directly involved in the strike, they were operating to stop

00:44:12.740 the threat against the American people.

00:44:14.640 And if two missiles is what are required to stop the threat, then that is what it required.

00:44:19.320 But this is why, again, you know, uh, the specificity of is it be the same thing in a

00:44:24.860 self-defense case.

00:44:25.740 If somebody came at me, Clay, in my own home, which would be a very bad idea because I do

00:44:30.680 have a lot of guns here and I am pretty trained up these days, but if somebody came at me

00:44:34.040 in my own home and I, and I put one in them and then they say, well, why did you, why did

00:44:38.620 you actually, uh, unload your whole magazine into this person who was coming at you, let's

00:44:43.400 say with a knife or something?

00:44:44.400 Like I would say, because in the moment that's what I believe to stop the threat against

00:44:47.440 my life.

00:44:49.340 That's the answer.

00:44:50.440 Yes.

00:44:50.800 Right.

00:44:50.960 It doesn't, whether it's one bullet or 10 bullets, I acted to stop the threat against

00:44:55.020 me and my family.

00:44:56.560 I, what you don't want to get into as well.

00:44:58.440 I hit him five times, but then I thought, you know what?

00:45:01.340 I got to get some headshots in here to make sure he's not moving anymore.

00:45:04.360 You don't want to, in a self-defense situation, say anything like that.

00:45:10.220 This is those you, you don't have to know law of war necessarily to understand how this,

00:45:15.200 when you're talking about use of force, you've got to be very specific about why you're using

00:45:19.460 that force.

00:45:20.100 And I've, I've sat through the classes.

00:45:22.100 I've sat through the discussion.

00:45:23.360 We had this in the CIA.

00:45:24.380 We had to have conversations about lethal force, right?

00:45:26.700 This is, you have to understand what the framework is for using violence against another human

00:45:33.960 being always the threat wasn't eliminated with the first strike.

00:45:38.600 So we had to have a second strike to eliminate the threat.

00:45:41.560 This is not very complicated, but again, when they start nitpicking at you, I appreciate

00:45:46.920 the fact that Pete recognizes he's the target here.

00:45:50.160 Somebody, I think this is important, leaked probably very classified information to a large

00:45:56.120 extent to the Washington post, which may or may not be accurate, but somebody obviously

00:46:02.240 has Pete as the target here.

00:46:04.940 They're attempting to come after him, uh, the admiral and the president.

00:46:09.080 I mean, their intent here matters.

00:46:11.360 And so, um, again, um, I, I think you have to eliminate this story to the best of your

00:46:18.660 ability.

00:46:19.020 You know what happened over the weekend, Buck?

00:46:20.700 Um, I was watching games.

00:46:22.420 My sister, my sister, Lisa, she's awesome.

00:46:25.220 Sat down on the couch.

00:46:26.300 She's watching the games.

00:46:27.640 She had, there was a cozy earth blanket on the couch.

00:46:30.740 This is a hundred percent true.

00:46:31.760 I didn't even know this.

00:46:32.700 She got the cozy earth blanket, a little bit chilly in Florida.

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00:46:38.420 She didn't even know that we had a code.

00:46:40.600 She went, got her phone.

00:46:42.500 The blanket was so comfortable and she ordered one for my mom and for her.

00:46:48.120 That's how comfortable this blanket was.

00:46:49.580 It's a hundred percent true.

00:46:51.060 Uh, she told, I said, did you use a code?

00:46:52.760 She said, I didn't even know there was a code.

00:46:53.880 I love this story, except we don't get credit for the blanket, but that's okay.

00:46:57.480 We're going to sell a lot more blankets now because that's how amazing they are.

00:47:00.480 I said, you use the code, right?

00:47:02.020 She said, I didn't know.

00:47:02.820 I didn't know there was a code.

00:47:03.860 Thanks for listening, Lisa.

00:47:05.600 Uh, but that's how comfortable this blanket was.

00:47:08.600 I'm not even kidding about this.

00:47:09.620 She sat down on the couch, a little bit chilly.

00:47:12.860 She puts the blanket over her within 20 minutes.

00:47:16.060 She got on.

00:47:17.080 She was like, she asked my wife, like, what, where is this cozy earth?

00:47:20.240 She got on.

00:47:21.200 She bought her own.

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00:47:24.100 Think about how busy the holiday season is.

00:47:26.860 Every cozy earth product is fantastic.

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00:47:33.560 In fact, you know what I was doing last night?

00:47:35.320 Watching stranger things season five with my boys.

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00:47:41.480 Cozy earth blanket.

00:47:42.700 A little bit chilly in Tennessee right now.

00:47:44.800 It was in the thirties last night.

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00:48:30.100 She then went back and bought more and she used code clay, by the way.

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00:48:41.280 Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.

00:48:43.800 Mike drops.

00:48:44.960 That never sounded so good.

00:48:47.260 Find them on the free I heart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:48:52.720 Canadian women are looking for more, more of themselves, their businesses, their elected 0.99

00:48:57.180 leaders, and the world around them.

00:48:58.940 And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the honest talk podcast.

00:49:02.280 I'm Jennifer Stewart and I'm Catherine Clark.

00:49:04.820 And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women, entrepreneurs, artists,

00:49:10.180 athletes, politicians, and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey.

00:49:14.600 So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us.

00:49:17.820 Listen to the honest talk podcast on I heart radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

00:49:24.520 Clay Travis with the clay and Buck show, wishing you and your family a very Merry Christmas

00:49:28.980 and a happy new year.

00:49:30.680 Welcome back in here, everybody.

00:49:32.920 We are joined by Senator Marsha Blackburn.

00:49:37.760 Senator Blackburn, always appreciate you being with us.

00:49:41.120 And it is always so good to join you.

00:49:43.720 Thank you so much.

00:49:45.420 First up, can you just speak to some politics going on in your home state, the 7th Congressional

00:49:51.600 District?

00:49:52.540 You got a loony leftist trying to sneak a congressional seat in what is not just a red area of the

00:49:58.920 wonderful state of Tennessee, Senator Blackburn, but also Clay's backyard.

00:50:03.180 Like, I think his yard is, in fact, considered part of the district.

00:50:07.240 What can you tell us about this race today?

00:50:10.200 Well, indeed.

00:50:11.240 And we need everybody to get out and vote.

00:50:13.820 That is for sure.

00:50:15.120 And these off-year special elections, sometimes they get a little funky on you.

00:50:22.080 And what you have are Democrats that are very excited.

00:50:28.080 They saw what they thought were big victories in blue areas.

00:50:33.360 And so now they're trying to California, Tennessee, and are putting a lot of energy in that today.

00:50:44.260 But Matt Van Epps is a good, solid candidate.

00:50:48.640 He is going to win.

00:50:50.500 He is going to be an outstanding member of the U.S. House.

00:50:55.160 He has wonderful experience and a record of service, a good, solid record of service for

00:51:01.760 the people of Tennessee and for this nation.

00:51:05.020 His military service, his business expertise, the way he served Governor Lee in his cabinet.

00:51:12.540 And I know that Matt is going to bring that fighting spirit to work on the issues of cost

00:51:18.420 of living and access to affordable health care and really getting the country back on track.

00:51:26.460 You know, Joe Biden and the Democrats raised taxes.

00:51:29.280 They ran up the cost of health care.

00:51:35.160 Inflation was at 9.1 percent.

00:51:38.220 And President Trump and Republicans are trying to get everything back on track.

00:51:42.440 Matt Van Epps is going to do a good job doing that.

00:51:45.180 And the people of Tennessee support President Trump and his agenda.

00:51:49.740 We're talking to Senator Marsha Blackburn.

00:51:51.940 She is also running for governor of Tennessee.

00:51:54.440 She's telling all of you to get out in the 7th Congressional District, all the way from

00:51:58.820 Fort Campbell, up on the border with Kentucky, all the way down south with Alabama, Nashville

00:52:04.880 included, part of Davidson County, Franklin, Williamson County, Brentwood, all points in between.

00:52:10.920 You also are a mom and a grandma, and you have a USA Today editorial piece up about the lack

00:52:19.760 of protection for young people online.

00:52:23.680 And I know in social media era, there's a lot of moms, dads, grandmas, grandpas out there

00:52:28.740 that are deeply concerned about this.

00:52:30.820 What have you uncovered?

00:52:32.060 What do people need to know?

00:52:33.360 And what should happen going forward?

00:52:34.900 Yes, and the op-ed is at time.com.

00:52:39.680 And this is work that we have done on the Kids Online Safety Act.

00:52:43.980 And I was just on the phone talking with a house colleague, Kat Kamek, out of Florida.

00:52:52.120 And she and I have several of these bills together.

00:52:54.920 Look, big tech uses our children as a cash cow. 1.00

00:52:59.140 And when kids are online, they are the product.

00:53:02.940 And we've been trying to pass legislation that would protect children in the virtual space,

00:53:09.800 just as we have laws in the physical space that says you can't sell alcohol and tobacco

00:53:16.680 to kids.

00:53:18.440 You can't expose them to pornography.

00:53:20.820 You can't endanger children.

00:53:23.780 You can't force children into contracts.

00:53:26.600 You can't traffic children.

00:53:28.180 You can't groom children.

00:53:30.380 All of this, there are laws.

00:53:33.080 But it happens in the virtual space 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

00:53:38.600 And when you look at these apps that are catering to children, when you look at these platforms

00:53:44.360 catering to children, and you know that big tech is trying to get these kids on their site,

00:53:52.780 and they want them to doom scroll for hours on end.

00:53:56.620 And then you talk to parents and teachers and preachers and pediatricians, and you hear

00:54:02.820 that addiction to these screens is one of the biggest problems they have when it comes

00:54:10.100 to cyberbullying and behavioral issues in schools.

00:54:14.600 Most of it starts in the virtual space.

00:54:17.920 When kids meet a drug dealer, a pedophile, a trafficker, a groomer, generally, it is in

00:54:26.980 the virtual space.

00:54:28.460 And we need to put these protections in place for our children in the virtual space, just

00:54:36.700 as they exist in the physical space.

00:54:39.580 We're speaking to Senator Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee.

00:54:42.320 Senator, the terrible terrorist attack that occurred just before the Thanksgiving holiday took the

00:54:49.140 life of a National Guard, member of the National Guard, and almost took another life, has got

00:54:56.200 people focused in here on how could something like this happen?

00:55:00.960 How was the vetting, or really what was the lack of vetting like, to bring in many of these

00:55:07.400 Afghans during the Biden withdrawal, I wanted you to speak to that and give us a sense as

00:55:12.700 to what do you think the Trump administration is going to be able to or should do now that

00:55:18.160 there's a recognition that there was insufficient vetting for many, perhaps most, of the Afghans

00:55:24.620 who were brought here during the Biden withdrawal?

00:55:27.460 And actually, the Inspector General's report from 2022 with the Department of Homeland Security

00:55:34.440 noted there was insufficient vetting.

00:55:37.260 And the response from the Biden administration was that they were going to go back and do

00:55:44.200 this vetting.

00:55:44.960 Obviously, they did not.

00:55:47.260 And now what the Trump administration is discussing doing is halting immigration while they catch

00:55:55.860 up and make certain that they have vetted all these individuals, whether they came in through

00:56:02.040 the Afghan welcome program that Biden had put in place, or it is people that are in the system

00:56:09.300 that illegally were in the country or people that were here legally on a visa and have overstayed

00:56:16.860 their visa.

00:56:18.540 You're going to see this administration and this Department of Homeland Security and the Department

00:56:25.800 of State, circle back and actually clean up some of these.

00:56:32.260 And if someone needs to go, they will be issued an order of deportation and then deported and

00:56:39.280 removed from the country.

00:56:41.740 I don't think we've asked you about this, but I asked you about it in person the last time

00:56:45.900 I saw you, and I want to make sure we hit it.

00:56:48.700 I think it's a pretty extraordinary, unbelievable story that at least eight United States senators,

00:56:54.580 including you, had your phones tapped as part of an investigation.

00:56:59.580 I know that you guys are continuing to follow up on that.

00:57:04.160 Can you tell our audience what happened there, why obviously it's significant and should never

00:57:09.540 happen again, and what is going to happen as a result?

00:57:13.780 Where is that story for people who don't know very much about it or haven't been paying attention?

00:57:19.740 Yes, and the story is continuing to unfold as we're getting more documents.

00:57:24.140 And hearing more from whistleblowers.

00:57:27.100 And I think it's tomorrow we have Judge Boesberg who is going to come before us.

00:57:32.700 He is the one who issued as many as 197 subpoenas for information on our phones.

00:57:43.780 And on top of those subpoenas, he put a nondisclosure order, which meant that the wireless companies

00:57:51.960 could not tell us that they had a subpoena for our phone records.

00:57:57.980 Now, we were targeted from what we have learned because we were all Republicans.

00:58:06.940 We all support President Trump.

00:58:09.580 And we, each of us, had questions about the 2020 election.

00:58:15.020 Now, the reason we're continuing to dig on this and to get information is because if they

00:58:24.000 were going after phone records, there is no doubt, and we have reason to believe, that

00:58:30.420 they went after other information.

00:58:32.580 Were they going after the content of those contacts?

00:58:38.240 Because what they did was to get every phone call I made or received and the location where

00:58:48.500 I was when I made or received that call and who that call was made to or received from.

00:58:57.600 And it started on January 1st of 21 with me.

00:59:02.760 And it was a pure spying effort.

00:59:05.320 It was a pure phishing expedition.

00:59:08.500 But we also want to know, did they get the content of emails?

00:59:13.080 Did they get the content of text messages?

00:59:16.420 Was there any wiretapping in real time that they did?

00:59:23.300 Did they surveil and investigate people that we were in contact with?

00:59:30.720 What was the extent of that surveillance?

00:59:33.420 Did they go after financial documents and other information about us?

00:59:40.860 So we are trying to get to the bottom of us.

00:59:44.940 That, I think, each of the eight of us want to know the extent of this.

00:59:50.340 And I will tell you this.

00:59:51.400 We want to know what they've done to other conservatives.

00:59:54.420 They know there were 197 subpoenas issued against 430 individuals, conservatives.

01:00:03.980 And it was organizations and individuals in that mix.

01:00:10.600 Citizens United, Turning Point USA, different organizations.

01:00:16.200 What they were after, we know they got financial documents on some of those.

01:00:21.900 But we want to see that.

01:00:24.760 We want to make certain this never happens again.

01:00:30.940 And conservatives have to be protected.

01:00:34.180 And, of course, in this case, because you have some whistleblowers over at DOJ that were aware of this, they brought the information to Senator Grassley.

01:00:47.680 And that is how we've been able to find out, as much as we have gotten so far, about what they did to conservatives and the extent of it.

01:00:58.720 Jack Smith, who ran Arctic Frost, needs to be held to account.

01:01:03.580 I think he ought to be in jail.

01:01:05.000 And we need to hold everyone to account.

01:01:09.880 I have written a letter that calls for the Office of Professional Conduct at the Department of Justice to look into his actions.

01:01:22.300 He should be disbarred.

01:01:24.060 We also have written a letter to the D.C. Bar about his conduct and what the actions that he took.

01:01:36.100 And the email chain that we got last week, you know, the interesting thing is the attorney, the counsel that was advising Jack Smith and Arctic Frost,

01:01:48.840 told them this is a constitutional violation, and pointed out to them what we had said early on.

01:01:57.900 It's a First and Fourth Amendment violation.

01:02:00.960 It is a violation of the separation of powers.

01:02:04.580 It's a violation of the speech and debate clause.

01:02:07.400 It is a violation of due process.

01:02:10.440 It is a violation of the Stored Communications Act.

01:02:14.540 And to think they did this knowing it was outside of the law.

01:02:20.460 But they hate Donald Trump and people that support Donald Trump.

01:02:25.480 And so they did it anyway.

01:02:29.680 Amen.

01:02:30.700 It's a big story.

01:02:32.420 I think we're going to continue to follow it on this program.

01:02:35.560 Please keep us updated on it.

01:02:37.320 And thanks for taking the time.

01:02:38.720 And one more time, tell everybody to go vote, Senator.

01:02:41.960 You got it.

01:02:43.000 Be certain that you go vote today.

01:02:45.060 Tennessee 7.

01:02:46.400 Matt Van Epps needs your vote.

01:02:49.260 Let's send a message that the Democrats are not going to take this seat.

01:02:54.700 Amen.

01:02:55.400 That's Senator Marsha Blackburn, great state of Tennessee, soon to be governor. 0.99

01:02:59.600 Appreciate you, Senator.

01:03:00.900 You got it.

01:03:01.540 Take care.

01:03:02.780 All right, Buck.

01:03:04.640 Your boy Pickles.

01:03:06.180 He's actually turned into one of the greatest receivers in the NFL right now.

01:03:10.940 George Pickens.

01:03:11.540 I saw this coming many miles away.

01:03:14.260 This is not even the least.

01:03:15.220 I said, always bet on Pickles.

01:03:17.000 And I was correct.

01:03:18.320 I appreciate your mom and dad saying that they'll lie for you and claim that you were watching college football.

01:03:24.660 Yes.

01:03:24.980 To try to keep you from having to be reprimanded by me for not spending time watching football.

01:03:31.860 Here is a pick, however, that you can play that everybody in California, Texas, Georgia, 40 states, 13 million people signed up.

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01:03:43.800 It begins on Thursday.

01:03:45.560 George Pickens, a.k.a.

01:03:47.240 George Pickles, according to Buck Sexton, more than 77.5 receiving yards.

01:03:52.380 Jameer Gibbs, more than 76.5 rushing yards.

01:03:56.340 Josh Allen, more than 228.5 passing yards.

01:04:00.820 And Jamar Chase, more than 90.5 receiving yards.

01:04:04.580 If all four of those hit, 5.5x is the play.

01:04:08.780 I will give you that pick later this week.

01:04:11.020 It's fun to play along.

01:04:12.500 We haven't had a lot of success lately.

01:04:14.660 But I'm optimistic that success will soon garland our achievements here.

01:04:19.400 George Pickens, Jameer Gibbs, Josh Allen, Jamar Chase, all more.

01:04:23.540 Go to PrizePix.com.

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01:04:27.180 When you play $5, you get $50.

01:04:29.560 That's PrizePix.com.

01:04:31.020 Code Clay.

01:04:32.040 Keep up with the biggest political comeback in world history on the Team 47 Podcast.

01:04:39.920 Clay and Buck highlight Trump replays from the week, Sundays at noon Eastern.

01:04:44.220 Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:04:48.740 This is an iHeart Podcast.

01:04:51.220 Guaranteed human.

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Verdict with Ted Cruz - December 03, 2025

Bonus： Daily Review with Clay and Buck - Dec 2 2025

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