Verdict with Ted Cruz - Bonus： Daily Review With Clay and Buck - Jun 17 2025

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.480 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.140 Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show podcast.

00:00:09.400 Welcome in Tuesday edition, Clay Travis, Buck Sexton Show.

00:00:14.500 Appreciate all of you hanging out with us.

00:00:17.140 Buck still on the French Riviera as he will be all week.

00:00:21.400 I am in Washington, D.C., and I will be with you solo all week long.

00:00:26.160 Appreciate all of you hanging out with us.

00:00:30.000 We have got a lot to discuss, in particular, the decision that now looms for President Trump

00:00:38.240 as he has to decide what involvement, if any, should the United States undertake to help Israel

00:00:47.700 when it comes to taking away the nuclear weapon option once and for all from Iran.

00:00:55.580 The president just put up this message.

00:00:58.480 We now have complete and total control of the skies over Iran. 0.85

00:01:04.420 Iran had good sky trackers and other defensive equipment and plenty of it, but it doesn't

00:01:10.240 compare to American-made, conceived, and manufactured stuff.

00:01:14.960 Nobody does it better.

00:01:18.100 Key word there to me, we.

00:01:20.220 We now have complete and total control of the skies over Iran, suggesting that the United States 0.97

00:01:27.760 is consulting with Iran at least enough for the royal we to be used there in some context.

00:01:37.480 There are a lot of different stories out there.

00:01:41.540 I would say Russia withdrawing support for the Islamic Republic is pretty significant.

00:01:48.940 And I'm going to open up phone lines and let you guys weigh in because you may disagree with

00:01:54.540 the take that I'm about to give you.

00:01:56.480 Let me also let you know we've got some great guests coming your way.

00:02:00.800 A couple of senators, Ted Cruz at the bottom of this hour from Texas, at the top of the third

00:02:07.800 hour, 2 p.m. Eastern, Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky, and then in studio with me here in Washington,

00:02:15.300 D.C. at 2.30 Eastern, the chairman of the FCC, Brendan Carr.

00:02:22.440 So we're going to have some interesting conversations with those guests.

00:02:26.820 But right off the top, President Trump has a very important decision to make.

00:02:32.980 According to reports out, and I will play audio of this discussion, but we do not have, meaning

00:02:46.080 we do not have the ability to stay completely out of this conflict if we want to eliminate

00:02:52.620 Iran's ability to have nuclear weapons going forward.

00:02:56.460 In particular, Iran has buried much of their nuclear material deep inside of a mountain.

00:03:05.080 And in order to reach that location, we need to use United States bunker busting bombs.

00:03:12.900 That would require us to get involved.

00:03:15.520 Let me play this from CNN.

00:03:16.840 And Caitlin Collins explaining exactly what would be necessary in order to, once and for

00:03:24.100 all, destroy Iran's nuclear weapons capabilities. 0.81

00:03:28.180 Cut seven.

00:03:28.840 Tonight, the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says strikes on Iran have set its

00:03:32.960 nuclear program back, and I'm quoting him now, a very long time.

00:03:37.500 But based on CNN analysis of one of the secretive Iranian nuclear facilities, eliminating the program

00:03:42.320 altogether could prove incredibly difficult without more time, larger bombs, and assistance

00:03:47.520 from the United States.

00:03:49.280 The Fordow plant, the nuclear plant, has been a key target of Israel's over the last several 0.97

00:03:53.500 days.

00:03:54.260 And we have new satellite images that show just how hard it could be to take out and why.

00:03:58.840 If you look at this, you see there's a security perimeter protecting what appears to be a heavily 0.55

00:04:02.940 fortified mountain layer.

00:04:04.160 And it's believed that hundreds of centrifuges placed nearly 300 feet under the ground are

00:04:09.660 working to enrich uranium that could be ultimately used for nuclear bombs.

00:04:14.040 OK, so that is the background on why we may have the ability to do something that Israel does 1.00

00:04:21.660 not when it comes to the technology and power of our bombs that they do not have.

00:04:27.160 Now, the decision that Trump is going to have to make is, should we use American assets, bombs,

00:04:36.980 to once and for all eliminate Iran from being able to get nuclear weapons? 0.54

00:04:42.980 Secondarily, should we OK or not in some way assent towards Israel's desire to take out the 0.90

00:04:52.460 Ayatollah Khamenei and once and for all remove the Ayatollahs from leadership of Iran, which

00:04:59.740 they have had since the 1979 revolution?

00:05:03.660 Here is Benjamin Netanyahu, cut 12, talking about assassinating the Ayatollah.

00:05:09.260 U.S. officials tell us that the president flatly rejected a plan, an opportunity that you,

00:05:16.040 that the Israelis had to take out the supreme leader.

00:05:19.580 Do you understand his concern?

00:05:20.800 My understanding is his concern is that this would escalate the conflict beyond where it

00:05:25.700 is already.

00:05:26.440 It's not going to escalate the conflict.

00:05:27.860 It's going to end the conflict.

00:05:28.920 We've had half a century of conflict spread by this regime that terrorizes everyone in

00:05:34.660 the Middle East, has bombed the Aramco oil fields in Saudi Arabia, is spreading terrorism 0.92

00:05:39.640 and subversion and sabotage everywhere.

00:05:42.380 The forever war is what Iran wants, and they're bringing us to the brink of nuclear war. 0.98

00:05:47.100 In fact, what Israel is doing is preventing this, bringing an end to this aggression.

00:05:52.880 Okay, so the double question that Trump has to answer as we sit here today is, should we

00:06:03.500 give assistance in the way, basically, of these bunker-busting bombs that would wipe out

00:06:11.880 nuclear capabilities of Iran that are deeply buried underground, and reportedly Israel does

00:06:19.160 not have the ability to do it based on the weaponry that they control?

00:06:23.100 Second, should we in any way nod, assent, or maybe even potentially be involved in the

00:06:29.500 removal of the Ayatollahs?

00:06:31.340 First, this is split, very reasonable, very rational people on both the left and the right.

00:06:39.560 J.D. Vance just put out a long piece saying, that I'll read to you at some point, but essentially

00:06:45.580 saying, President Trump should be trusted to make this decision, and that Trump has been

00:06:50.980 consistent that Iran can never get a nuclear weapon, and anything that he does related to

00:06:56.720 that will be in his decade-long career as a politician, further echoing the comments that

00:07:04.360 he has made throughout that Iran can't get a nuclear weapon.

00:07:07.000 Here's my answer.

00:07:08.420 I think we should, once and for all, wipe out Iran's ability to have nuclear weapons. 0.99

00:07:15.220 I think that if that requires us using our bunker bombs to wipe out that capability, I think

00:07:23.120 we should do it.

00:07:24.560 Second, I think the Ayatollahs have to go. 0.70

00:07:29.660 Now, those may be controversial opinions.

00:07:32.380 Some of you may disagree.

00:07:33.640 800-282-2882.

00:07:35.560 We will take your calls to agree or disagree.

00:07:38.040 You can also talk back.

00:07:40.160 We know, and let me lay out why I believe this is necessary.

00:07:44.220 Every time that we have negotiated with Iran, especially with the deal that Obama struck with

00:07:49.960 Iran, the Iranians have been unwilling to accede to the agreements.

00:07:56.260 They always cheat.

00:07:58.120 They always try to get nuclear weapons.

00:08:01.500 I don't blame them, because the Ayatollahs see nuclear weapons in the same way that Kim 0.59

00:08:07.840 Jong-un and North Korea did, which is once they have them, the danger of trying to take 1.00

00:08:14.000 them out becomes so pronounced that they will be in power effectively forever.

00:08:19.840 I understand why Iran wants nuclear weapons.

00:08:23.640 It's a rational decision for the Ayatollahs to pursue them. 0.96

00:08:28.000 It's why I don't believe that Iranian Ayatollah leadership is ever going to give up the pursuit 0.98

00:08:36.120 of nuclear weapons.

00:08:38.000 There is no doubt that they are pursuing them.

00:08:41.200 There is no doubt that they have an incentive to one day have them, because it increases

00:08:45.920 the overall power and stability of the Ayatollahs.

00:08:49.060 So to me, this is a bit like starting to treat an infection for antibiotics, and then you stop.

00:08:59.280 Iran is right now on the precipice of having the Ayatollahs thrown out of control of the 0.97

00:09:06.580 country, and also of never being able to have nuclear weapons for the life of anyone listening

00:09:12.560 right now.

00:09:13.720 I think we have the ability to ensure that.

00:09:16.760 If we do not do it, now, I think using my antibiotics example, if you start to take antibiotics

00:09:25.320 and you have an infection, and then you stop, you can actually strengthen the infection because

00:09:32.300 you didn't do enough to knock it out.

00:09:35.680 We have to, in my opinion, and I know it's a tough call, and this is why presidents age

00:09:42.180 so much when they're in office, because making tough calls is the ultimate job.

00:09:46.800 And there are good people arguing on both sides of this issue from a variety of different

00:09:53.000 perspectives.

00:09:53.620 I think reasoned, articulate, logical cases can be made for either decision.

00:09:59.740 To me, if you believe that Iran wants nuclear weapons and has been pursuing them for a long

00:10:06.200 time, which I do, then you have to, in my opinion, wipe them out once and for all.

00:10:12.940 Now, some of you out there are saying, well, this sounds too similar to Iraq, and we will 0.99

00:10:18.380 talk about it during the course of this program.

00:10:21.080 I opposed the Iraq war back in the day, 20 some odd years ago, because to me, it never 0.56

00:10:28.080 made sense to connect Saddam Hussein to 9-11.

00:10:31.920 And we were the aggressor going into Iraq, and the attempt to build a new Iraqi government,

00:10:40.620 and the trillions of dollars that we spent, and the loss of men, and the loss of basically

00:10:49.440 everything without much benefit, to me felt very similar to Afghanistan.

00:10:56.920 So what would later happen in Afghanistan?

00:10:59.620 I do not believe that the United States should take the next step of having boots on the ground,

00:11:06.460 and trying to pick who the leaders of Iran are going to be going forward.

00:11:11.680 There seems to be some optimism that the Iranian people might well support their royal family,

00:11:19.740 which was deposed and kicked out of the country in the 1970s.

00:11:24.900 And again, if you go back and watch those YouTube videos, they're up.

00:11:29.140 You can go check them out.

00:11:29.920 Iran, for a Middle Eastern country, used to be quite free.

00:11:35.380 Instead of walking around in hijabs and burqas, women were walking around in high heels and skirts. 1.00

00:11:41.860 This was a jewel of Middle Eastern economy.

00:11:46.220 They have fallen behind.

00:11:48.360 Saudi Arabia has passed them.

00:11:50.020 Qatar has passed them. 0.99

00:11:51.220 All of these other countries that used to look up to Iran have now ended up surpassing Iran. 0.95

00:12:00.820 Persians, proud people that live there.

00:12:03.720 I think economically, this is what I love about what Trump is doing.

00:12:08.240 He's not focusing on religion.

00:12:11.300 He's focusing on economic opportunity.

00:12:14.200 That doesn't mean there's something wrong with the religious focus.

00:12:19.160 But Christians, Jews, and Muslims have struggled to get along, as you well know, in the Middle East for a very long time.

00:12:27.100 Trying to reconcile those religions can be challenging.

00:12:30.580 Instead, to me, what Trump seems to have been successful in doing is saying,

00:12:35.980 hey, let's focus on commerce.

00:12:38.880 Let's focus on capitalism.

00:12:40.820 Let's focus on growing everybody's economy together.

00:12:44.740 And that seems to have been received very favorably.

00:12:49.160 Trump has done a phenomenal job, in my opinion, and his team on Middle Eastern relationships, building them.

00:12:56.700 The Middle Eastern countries, by and large, Saudi Arabia, the largest and most powerful of them,

00:13:04.400 they want the Ayatollahs gone. 0.97

00:13:06.980 They actually support Israel and the United States if we make this decision.

00:13:12.040 It's going to be a hard one.

00:13:13.380 It's going to be a difficult one.

00:13:14.560 And we'll talk about this.

00:13:15.860 I'll certainly talk about it with Ted Cruz and Senator Rand Paul, who are both going to be on this program.

00:13:20.480 And we'll take some of your calls and some of your talkbacks on this decision.

00:13:25.420 But to me, this is a hard decision.

00:13:29.120 But presidents are elected to make hard decisions.

00:13:32.240 Trump, in my opinion, should wipe out the nuclear capabilities once and for all.

00:13:37.920 And I think should quietly assent to the idea from Israel of taking out the Ayatollahs, 1.00

00:13:44.720 who are persecuting authoritarians, who do not have, I don't believe, substantial support inside of Iran.

00:13:53.500 I think that what replaced them, while potentially uncertain, would be better and safer for all of us than what is there now.

00:14:03.500 America first does not mean America alone.

00:14:07.460 We have to make rational decisions in the larger world about how to ensure that we are safe.

00:14:15.660 And I do not believe that if we allowed Iran to ever have a nuclear weapon, that would make the world safer. 0.94

00:14:22.420 We've already got one crazy man, Kim Jong-un, with nuclear weapons. 0.97

00:14:27.640 I don't think it's a good decision to allow Iran, run by, frankly, religious, zealot, crazy people, to have a nuclear weapon. 0.99

00:14:40.600 We have seen what happens when religious, zealot, crazy people from the Middle East decide to trade their focus on us. 1.00

00:14:49.560 It's 9-11.

00:14:50.160 I believe that the Ayatollah is not just chanting death to America and leading those chants in Iran because he wants a few good viral moments.

00:15:02.620 I think he hates America and would do us ill, and therefore we have to prepare for it.

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00:16:27.260 We're going to be joined by Senator Ted Cruz in a moment.

00:16:32.300 I believe he is voting right now on the Senate floor.

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00:17:36.340 While we wait on Senator Ted Cruz to join us, several of you wanting to weigh in, let's go to James in Texas.

00:17:45.500 What you got, James?

00:17:48.160 Yeah, Clay, I would like to both accept and applaud your antibiotic spot on.

00:18:01.380 Yeah, thank you.

00:18:02.360 I think he was breaking up there a little bit.

00:18:03.840 He was using the antibiotic analogy to say that he agrees.

00:18:06.980 By the way, I told you I would read this.

00:18:09.480 I'm going to go back to calls in a sec here.

00:18:11.320 But let me hit you with what J.D. Vance posted.

00:18:14.280 I'm seeing this from the inside, and I'm admittedly biased.

00:18:17.860 But there's a lot of crazy stuff on social media.

00:18:20.480 Again, this is J.D. Vance.

00:18:21.540 So I wanted to address directly some things on the Iran issue.

00:18:25.680 First, Trump has been, POTUS, has been amazingly consistent over 10 years that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon.

00:18:33.340 Over the last few months, he's encouraged the foreign policy team to reach a deal with Iran to accomplish this goal.

00:18:39.700 Presidents made clear Iran cannot have uranium enrichment.

00:18:43.280 And he said repeatedly this would happen one of two ways, the easy way or the other way.

00:18:48.540 Then there's an explanation of uranium enrichment.

00:18:51.820 And he says, continuing, the president's shown remarkable restraint keeping our military's focus on protecting our troops and protecting our citizens.

00:19:00.100 He may decide he needs to take further action to end Iranian enrichment. 0.55

00:19:04.680 That decision ultimately belongs to the president. 0.99

00:19:07.240 And, of course, people are right to be worried about foreign entanglement after the last 25 years of idiotic foreign policy. 0.97

00:19:14.460 But I believe the president has earned some trust on this issue. 0.95

00:19:18.280 Having seen up close and personal, I can assure you he is only interested in using the American military to accomplish the American people's goals.

00:19:27.140 Whatever he does, that is his focus.

00:19:30.380 That is J.D. Vance.

00:19:31.180 Greg, in Port St. Lucie, Florida, what you got for us?

00:19:37.160 I've been a listener.

00:19:38.780 How are you?

00:19:40.020 So I'm going to have to disagree with you on behalf of dropping the bunker buster.

00:19:46.160 I mean, if there's so many people that are just, you know, in the shadows that are quietly supporting this, then I think they need to help provide some bombs.

00:19:56.000 I don't think sending in a major bunker buster is a great idea. 0.98

00:19:59.480 We've got to remember there was the interview back in 94 with Dick Cheney during the whole desert storm and Kuwait situation.

00:20:07.420 We were asked, you know, why didn't we take out Saddam at the time?

00:20:10.640 Because he said the word that would be a bad idea because then you destabilize the Middle East.

00:20:15.360 All right.

00:20:15.600 As much of a dictator as he is, you destabilize it.

00:20:19.460 OK, I understand that argument.

00:20:20.440 But let me go back to the bomb.

00:20:22.940 What would you do?

00:20:24.320 Do you believe that Iran wants nuclear weapons?

00:20:26.880 I do absolutely believe that they want nuclear weapons.

00:20:32.340 OK, so I don't think why.

00:20:35.080 I'm sorry.

00:20:35.620 Let me just ask.

00:20:36.440 Yeah.

00:20:36.840 Yeah, but so if it is required to stop them from getting nuclear weapons that we use because they have buried much of their their production way underground to try to prevent it from being reached by bombs.

00:20:51.360 And if only the United States has the technology and the bomb making ability to reach that, would you leave it alone and let Iran continue to try to produce a nuclear weapon? 0.88

00:21:02.700 No, I'm not saying leave it alone.

00:21:05.700 I'm saying right now we know that the Ayatollah is extremely his health is beginning to fade.

00:21:11.100 He's just 87 years old.

00:21:13.240 OK, we know that the regime's getting ready to collapse, especially with all the, you know, Israeli strikes and everything.

00:21:20.440 We see that, you know, they're getting ready to fall.

00:21:23.700 OK, the leadership is collapsing, you know, it's just not good.

00:21:28.440 So let's just blow out all of the tunnels and anything that leads down into there.

00:21:34.060 Seal it off.

00:21:35.480 All right.

00:21:35.800 So that way they can't get down into it by that.

00:21:38.420 By the time they're able to get access to that again, there's already going to be a regime change.

00:21:43.740 OK, I think we should allow the region to deal with this issue.

00:21:49.940 I think, you know, I'm just a carpenter from, you know, a small town of Pennsylvania originally.

00:21:55.520 I moved to Port St. Lucie about a decade ago.

00:21:58.300 All right.

00:21:58.600 But we're tired of the doom and gloom and the constant shelling in the Middle East.

00:22:04.840 OK, thank you for that.

00:22:06.140 Thank you for the call.

00:22:06.880 Thank you for the call.

00:22:08.020 I'm going to go to more calls.

00:22:08.920 My concern, candidly, is that if we don't end Iran's ability to undertake enrichment to try to produce nuclear weapons, 0.91

00:22:19.880 if we don't end it once and for all now, we're going to be back at this exact same situation in the years ahead.

00:22:27.460 And that's why I use the antibiotic example.

00:22:30.240 If you've got a sickness and you start to treat it with antibiotics and you actually don't fully wipe it out,

00:22:36.820 you just take a couple of pills or for a few days, then the virus actually can come back much stronger than if you go ahead and wipe it out once and for all.

00:22:47.020 Right.

00:22:47.400 That's my analogy of what I'm concerned of if we don't take out Iran once and for all right now. 1.00

00:22:54.200 Ken in southeast Michigan.

00:22:56.160 Ken, what you got for us?

00:22:56.960 Well, I think it's essential that we don't underestimate how to vote the leaders of Iran are to their religious conviction.

00:23:07.680 Yes.

00:23:07.940 They will use the nuclear bomb the second they have it. 1.00

00:23:12.900 They truly do believe, kill the infidel, kill the nonbeliever. 1.00

00:23:18.520 This is their fundamental belief system. 1.00

00:23:21.900 They will use the weapon.

00:23:24.840 They're not the Chinese. 1.00

00:23:26.200 They're not the Russians. 0.97

00:23:28.100 They're not the North Koreans. 0.98

00:23:30.280 They will use it.

00:23:32.440 And we must stop them no matter what it takes.

00:23:35.660 Thank you for the call.

00:23:36.700 That's my concern for people out there who say, OK, why do we care if Iran gets a nuclear weapon?

00:23:42.060 I understand why Iran wants a nuclear weapon, because the Ayatollahs believe that much like Kim Jong-un, that will keep them from ever being replaced.

00:23:50.840 That is a logical goal on their side.

00:23:53.500 But also, we know that Muslim fundamentalists who are religiously motivated are not necessarily going to engage in rational behavior. 0.95

00:24:06.460 And they may decide at some point in time to actually fire a nuke and try to wipe out Israel. 0.94

00:24:11.940 They may decide at some point in time to unleash that nuclear arsenal on other countries around the world.

00:24:19.220 I'm nervous about Kim Jong-un doing it.

00:24:21.400 I wish he didn't have nuclear weapons.

00:24:23.740 I think America would be safer.

00:24:25.060 I think the world would be safer.

00:24:27.160 Senator Ted Cruz with us now.

00:24:29.380 He's just coming off the Senate floor.

00:24:31.680 I know this is a tough call.

00:24:33.960 And you may not have been expecting that this was going to emerge as the tough time that we have now to make this call.

00:24:39.660 But what do you think America should do as it pertains to Iran, given what's going on right now?

00:24:48.120 To be honest, Clay, I don't think it's a tough call at all.

00:24:52.660 I think we should stand unshakably with the state of Israel. 0.99

00:24:56.540 I think Iran acquiring a nuclear weapon is the most acute national security threat facing the United States today.

00:25:06.080 And I think Israel acting decisively to take out Iran's capability to develop a nuclear weapon is overwhelmingly beneficial to America. 0.64

00:25:16.460 It makes us safer because I think if the Ayatollah were to acquire a nuclear weapon, the risks are unacceptably high that the Ayatollah would use that weapon and potentially kill millions of Americans or millions of Israelis. 0.93

00:25:32.460 And that's not a risk that we should allow.

00:25:35.000 I agree with that.

00:25:36.840 In particular, we're diving into the decision that Trump may have to make.

00:25:40.940 If you were president right now or if the president called and asked for your advice, if we need Israel does, if they need our bunker busting bombs in order to get to some of these nuclear facilities, should we should we give that assistance to Israel if asked in your mind?

00:26:00.780 Second part of this, should the Ayatollahs be removed in some way, either allowing Israel to do it or potentially America being involved?

00:26:10.740 How would you handle those two questions?

00:26:12.240 So let's break them down one at a time.

00:26:16.840 So right now, Israel is conducting the military strikes.

00:26:19.820 The American military is not conducting them.

00:26:22.000 We are assisting with intelligence.

00:26:23.760 We're helping Israel with missile defense in Israel because Iran is firing ballistic missiles and trying to kill as many civilians as possible in Israel. 0.65

00:26:32.760 And I would note there's a huge difference between Israel's attacks, which are targeted military attacks, taking out the senior leadership of their military who are charged with conducting the war, and also taking out their nuclear facilities.

00:26:47.400 In contrast, Iran is trying to kill civilians, as many as possible. 0.84

00:26:52.960 I do not believe under any circumstances we should see American boots on the ground.

00:26:57.840 I don't think our military is needed to be on the ground here.

00:27:00.720 I think Israel is capable of doing this.

00:27:02.760 The one exception is the question you asked of bunker busters, and in particular, most of the nuclear facilities Israel is taking out quite effectively right now.

00:27:12.940 The one major exception is a facility that's called Fordow, and Fordow is built into the base of a mountain, and it was deliberately built to make it very difficult to bomb, and Israel lacks the technical capacity.

00:27:25.420 They don't have big enough bunker busters to bomb and hit Fordow, whereas America does. 0.77

00:27:31.520 And so that's the one aspect.

00:27:33.180 I think there is a serious argument.

00:27:34.800 I've long argued that America should be willing to provide those bunker busters because Fordow was designed to help Iran. 1.00

00:27:41.100 That's where they're conducting their most sensitive nuclear research.

00:27:43.780 And it was designed to help them get a nuclear weapon, which they intend, I believe, to be able to use.

00:27:51.960 And the Ayatollah chants, death to America and death to Israel, and I believe them. 1.00

00:27:57.340 And so I think it is very worthwhile to do what is necessary to prevent them from having a nuclear weapon that could help them make death to America and death to Israel much more of a reality and be used to commit murder on a massive scale. 0.96

00:28:16.680 Now, on the second question about regime change, in my view, the world would be much better if the Ayatollahs were no longer in charge of Iran. 0.88

00:28:27.080 I think the Ayatollah is a theocratic zealot.

00:28:32.680 He refers to Israel as the little Satan. 0.97

00:28:35.560 He refers to America as the great Satan. 0.78

00:28:37.620 And unquestionably, Iran would be better, Israel would be better, America would be better if the Ayatollah were not in charge. 0.99

00:28:45.000 I don't think that means we should invade Iran and try to topple the Ayatollah, but I think we should use every tool we have, in particular economic sanctions and pressure.

00:28:54.520 And indeed, this military campaign directed at stopping the nuclear program, I think, is weakening the regime as well.

00:29:02.600 And so we should certainly cheer if the Ayatollah, if the regime falls. 0.95

00:29:07.880 But whether it does or not, the objective of Israel's attack here is not regime change, but it is to stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons. 0.56

00:29:18.600 If Netanyahu asked for the ability to kill the Ayatollah, should Trump, in your mind, give that nod, even if we're not directly involved?

00:29:30.740 You know, look, that's a difficult question.

00:29:33.940 I talked about it on the latest episode of my podcast, Verdict with Ted Cruz, and we talked about it at some length.

00:29:41.480 There has been reporting.

00:29:43.100 I don't know if this is accurate.

00:29:44.240 I don't know independently, but I've read the newspaper stories that say that Netanyahu wanted to target the Ayatollah and the Trump White House asked them not to.

00:29:52.700 I don't have a reason to doubt or dispute that reporting.

00:29:57.020 And listen, I think it's a close call.

00:29:59.540 Generally, in warfare, nations refrain from targeting heads of state.

00:30:04.680 It's also complicated by the Ayatollah being simultaneously a religious figure and taking out a religious figure.

00:30:11.460 There are real risks to that.

00:30:12.900 There are risks of making him a martyr and inflaming things further.

00:30:17.260 So I think it is a reasonable decision to say, rather than targeting the Ayatollah himself, who's an old man, that what they're doing, and Israel is doing it with amazing precision, is they're taking out the senior military leadership.

00:30:33.780 They're taking out the head of the IRGC and the chief of staff, and in fact, then the next chief of staff, they keep taking out the senior leadership of the military that is number one in charge of waging the terror war.

00:30:47.280 Iran provides 90 percent of the funding to Hamas and 90 percent of the funding to Hezbollah, and they're taking out the senior leadership that are directing the missile strikes on Israel, that are directing the nuclear program.

00:30:59.740 They're also taking out the nuclear scientists.

00:31:02.080 I think it makes sense for the attacks to be directed at removing their ability to wage war against Israel and to wage war against America.

00:31:13.720 I will tell you also, it is a dangerous time.

00:31:18.440 It's a dangerous time for the people of Israel.

00:31:20.620 I spoke with a friend of mine on Sunday whose mom is in Jerusalem, and he said his mom – nobody's able to sleep because they wake up at 2 and 3 in the morning every night.

00:31:29.740 With air raid sirens going on, and they have to rush to the bomb shelter.

00:31:33.200 So, I mean, it is intense when a civilian population is facing constant missile strikes, and there have been significant fatalities, and there may be substantially more.

00:31:42.840 So the people of Israel in harm's way – but, Clay, also our servicemen and women.

00:31:48.240 We have a large number of servicemen and women that are in the Middle East, and I think it is exceptionally important.

00:31:55.960 And I spoke with President Trump on Sunday, and I called him just to say that I thought he was doing exceptionally well, and standing with Israel and his leadership was really important.

00:32:06.420 And I said in particular thank you for making unequivocally clear to Iran that if they attack and kill U.S. servicemen and women that they will face very significant retaliation from the United States. 0.59

00:32:20.100 I think that is protecting the lives of our servicemen and women, and that is what a strong commander-in-chief does.

00:32:26.920 That's what Trump is doing.

00:32:29.060 Senator Ted Cruz, we appreciate the time.

00:32:30.620 Know how busy you are.

00:32:31.720 Thanks for hopping on.

00:32:33.000 Thanks, my friend.

00:32:33.780 God bless.

00:32:34.180 We'll continue to take your calls, 800-282-2882.

00:32:45.780 Hey, Buck, one of my kids called me an unk the other day.

00:32:48.660 An unk? 0.62

00:32:49.400 Yep, slaying evidently for not being hip, being an old dude. 0.99

00:32:52.720 So how do we un-unk you?

00:32:55.060 Get more people to subscribe to our YouTube channel, at least that's what my kids tell me.

00:32:59.720 That's simple enough.

00:33:00.500 Just search The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show and hit the subscribe button.

00:33:04.180 Takes less than five seconds to help un-unk me.

00:33:07.600 Do it for Clay, do it for freedom, and get great content while you're there.

00:33:10.960 The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show YouTube channel.

00:33:13.860 We're about to be joined by Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky.

00:33:17.000 I am in Washington, D.C.

00:33:18.820 Buck is on the French Riviera for the Big Can Advertising Conference.

00:33:25.080 A lot of people want to buy into this show as the audience has continued to grow.

00:33:29.560 And so Buck is over there.

00:33:31.680 Senator Rand Paul with us now.

00:33:33.040 We're following a lot of different stories.

00:33:35.800 Ongoing uncertainty about exactly what the United States' actions and responses will be as it pertains to Iran.

00:33:44.680 We'll talk about that with Senator Rand Paul right now.

00:33:46.820 Also, continued fallout of the big, beautiful bill and where that is headed.

00:33:53.380 But let's start with the number one question that is out there right now.

00:33:58.740 Senator Rand Paul, if President Trump called you and he said,

00:34:02.940 Hey, what do you think I should do about the situation in Iran, your response would be what?

00:34:09.940 You know, the president's had good instincts traditionally on this.

00:34:13.580 And his instincts have been for restraint, for thinking things through,

00:34:17.620 and hopefully for not getting us involved in this war.

00:34:20.820 I think it would be a bad idea for us to be involved directly in the war.

00:34:24.820 I think the chance of negotiation pretty much goes out the window with the first U.S. bombs dropping.

00:34:30.940 Even as it is, we're so closely linked with Israel, I think that it's almost depicted as a joint action now.

00:34:37.460 But I think it is a step for the worse if we actually are involved actively with bombing.

00:34:42.580 The other thing in our country is we have this thing called the Constitution that says you can't go to war with countries without permission.

00:34:49.700 So if he did decide and he told me he's absolutely made the decision,

00:34:53.480 I would recommend to him that he has to come before Congress, ask us for permission,

00:34:57.480 and we'll have a vote the same night on whether or not to go to war.

00:35:01.900 Do you, yourself, are you concerned about the idea of Iran having nuclear weapons?

00:35:08.040 Do you think that's a threat to the United States?

00:35:11.300 Well, you know, I think potentially.

00:35:13.420 I think that it's more a threat to their regional neighbors.

00:35:16.520 But I would say that I don't want them to have nuclear weapons.

00:35:19.040 I don't think anybody does.

00:35:20.720 But the question about every activity is does it make it more or less likely?

00:35:25.200 So I think you can argue both sides of does Israel's bombing make it more or less likely to get a nuclear weapon?

00:35:32.060 You can say, well, they're destroying their capability.

00:35:34.480 Or you could say that this is the last straw from Iran's point of view,

00:35:38.160 and Iran will simply rush headlong into developing a weapon.

00:35:41.920 They may well have stockpiles of highly enriched uranium we don't know about.

00:35:47.680 And once you have it, you can really hide a cup full of highly enriched uranium anywhere.

00:35:54.440 And probably one cup full is probably enough for a decent-sized bomb.

00:35:58.380 And so they have the ability to enrich.

00:36:01.760 I don't think the bombing gets rid of their knowledge of nuclear power,

00:36:04.820 even though they killed, you know, many different scientists.

00:36:08.520 I hope they don't go this direction.

00:36:10.600 But there's always a question.

00:36:12.120 Will they passively come back and, you know, hang their head and say,

00:36:15.960 we're sorry and we want to negotiate?

00:36:17.560 Or will they, you know, have this sense of nationalism, rally around their flag,

00:36:22.220 put aside their differences, and really unify in the sense of trying to, you know,

00:36:28.620 combat an attack?

00:36:30.900 I presume that since you wouldn't like to see United States force, you know,

00:36:36.020 bunker-busting bombs used, I think that would be your position based on the answer so far,

00:36:40.400 that you also would want to have no U.S. involvement in any potential regime change

00:36:46.000 relating to the Ayatollahs or anything else.

00:36:48.180 Your general proposition would be that we should not get involved.

00:36:53.140 You know, we tried that.

00:36:54.700 You know, we tried it in Afghanistan and for 20 years.

00:36:57.820 And Afghanistan was a very, very tiny backwards country, no wealth, 1.00

00:37:02.840 and very few people compared to Iran.

00:37:05.260 And we weren't very successful even in that backwater of trying to get, you know,

00:37:10.200 a stable government.

00:37:11.420 And the Taliban ended up waltzing in and, you know, 0.70

00:37:13.920 a matter of days taking over that government.

00:37:16.140 So I don't know that we're very good at nation building,

00:37:18.780 nor do I think that that's really what we should be doing.

00:37:21.040 So, no, I'm not involved for it.

00:37:23.100 Do I wish their people well?

00:37:24.520 Yeah, I would love to see their people get rid of their government.

00:37:27.740 Nobody wants to see their people oppressed, you know,

00:37:31.120 the women that have been, you know, snatched up off the street, beaten, 0.89

00:37:35.640 and who knows else, you know, simply for not wearing a face covering.

00:37:38.780 And, you know, the young people of Iran are said to be very pro-Western,

00:37:44.800 very much more open than where the Mullahs are as far as, you know, culture.

00:37:50.300 And it is sad to see what's happening.

00:37:52.320 But, you know, our job really isn't to send armies everywhere

00:37:56.260 and to send our soldiers.

00:37:57.820 And that's the way people need to think of this.

00:37:59.800 Are you ready to send your son or daughter, you know,

00:38:02.240 to march in a trench and, you know, trench to trench in Iran?

00:38:05.700 And it really is not a war that we should be involved with.

00:38:09.280 We're talking to Senator Rand Paul.

00:38:10.900 All right, let's shift from Iran right now 1.00

00:38:12.780 to what's going on with the so-called Big Beautiful Bill.

00:38:16.200 Last week we had Senator Ron Johnson in.

00:38:18.460 I think you and he share a lot of the same ideas on this bill

00:38:23.480 not cutting spending enough.

00:38:25.480 I don't know if things have changed since last week.

00:38:28.260 What would you tell us?

00:38:29.700 What should we know about the current status of the bill as you see it?

00:38:33.980 You know, a lot of the bill is tax cuts, which I'm for.

00:38:36.920 Making the tax cuts permanent, which I'm for.

00:38:39.380 I voted for these tax cuts in 2017, most of them.

00:38:42.860 I think they were largely responsible for the economic growth and prosperity

00:38:47.300 in the first Trump administration with low historic unemployment.

00:38:51.000 We were doing great until, you know, they shut the government down,

00:38:54.700 shut the world down for the pandemic.

00:38:56.460 But I'm for all of that.

00:38:58.460 The spending cuts, I agree with Ron Johnson.

00:39:00.540 They're weak.

00:39:01.280 They're anemic.

00:39:02.240 And they will not materially affect our accumulation of debt.

00:39:07.380 And this is the thing people need to understand.

00:39:09.340 Our deficit this year is going to be $2.2 trillion.

00:39:12.060 If you believe the numbers of the bill,

00:39:14.160 which really probably are not accurate in the first year or two,

00:39:16.540 but they were going to cut spending $150 billion,

00:39:19.960 that means instead of a $2.2 trillion, you'd have a $2.05 trillion.

00:39:24.460 So it's really not materially changing the accumulation of debt.

00:39:29.040 And probably in the first couple years, the debt will grow

00:39:32.600 because when you reduce tax rates,

00:39:35.240 you do usually get less revenue in the beginning.

00:39:37.280 Now, you tend to get economic growth and grow out of it.

00:39:39.740 But for a year or two, that revenue will go down.

00:39:42.640 They also have some fake pay-fors in there.

00:39:44.660 They have a pay-for that says we're getting rid of the Biden forgiveness of student loans.

00:39:50.820 Well, the courts ruled that illegal, and it never went into action.

00:39:53.900 So they're going to get rid of something that isn't currently happening.

00:39:57.540 And only in Washington do you call that a cut when you get rid of something that actually isn't occurring.

00:40:02.460 But some of these things aren't real.

00:40:04.460 Some of the real findings, like putting work requirements on Medicaid,

00:40:08.680 don't start occurring until after the election in 2026.

00:40:12.700 So I think in the first couple years, the deficit does get worse.

00:40:17.300 But my biggest complaint, really, though, is the debt ceiling.

00:40:21.900 Raising the debt ceiling $5 trillion, when Congress, I think, is terrible with money.

00:40:26.860 They're irresponsible.

00:40:27.960 We've accumulated $36 trillion debt.

00:40:30.020 They show no signs of wisening up and actually spending cuts.

00:40:35.260 And so I think to raise the debt ceiling $5 trillion is giving irresponsible people too much credit.

00:40:41.440 So I'd give them three months.

00:40:43.480 And in three months, it's going to be the end of the fiscal year.

00:40:46.240 You realize in three months they're going to be coming back with a big, beautiful omnibus.

00:40:50.960 And so that's going to be – we'll face that in September.

00:40:53.200 And so if they're going to keep spending money the same way they have, I would say you get very little installments of debt ceiling.

00:40:59.980 We vote on it every three months until we see if we can trust you with money.

00:41:04.960 What do you think the time frame is?

00:41:06.760 You just laid out the debt ceiling.

00:41:09.040 President Trump has said he'd like to have this done by July 4th.

00:41:12.280 Ron Johnson said he didn't think that was very likely.

00:41:15.500 When do you think the Senate might be able to vote on this bill?

00:41:19.300 What does your horizon look like in that respect?

00:41:21.740 It all depends on, you know, how many people have courage.

00:41:27.340 Four principled conservatives with courage could make this into a conservative bill.

00:41:33.460 All it would take would be four of us to say that we don't want the debt ceiling on there.

00:41:37.200 We're not voting for $5 trillion in debt.

00:41:39.320 And they would have to change it.

00:41:40.960 Right now I think it's me and possibly Ron Johnson.

00:41:46.240 And then there may be one or two others out there.

00:41:49.420 But I really haven't heard a lot that indicates to me that there are people you have to say you're going to be a no.

00:41:54.800 You have to be steadfast and loud.

00:41:57.600 And you have to tell them why.

00:41:59.180 And you have to tell them what it takes to get to yes.

00:42:01.660 And that's why despite getting some credit from some of the, you know, attack dogs at the White House, I've been very clear to the president.

00:42:08.740 I like a lot of the bill.

00:42:10.060 I like him personally.

00:42:11.260 I support him.

00:42:12.440 And I'll support the bill.

00:42:13.680 But they have to separate out the debt ceiling.

00:42:15.540 They don't want to do that.

00:42:17.120 But they will do it if I'm deciding vote.

00:42:19.700 That's what I also told my supporters.

00:42:21.300 You say, I can't believe you won't vote to over the tax reduction.

00:42:23.740 I said, I will.

00:42:24.760 I'm for it.

00:42:25.860 And if I'm the deciding vote, I promise you I'll vote for it.

00:42:29.360 But if I'm the deciding vote, they're going to have to negotiate.

00:42:31.980 And they will because that's the way it works.

00:42:33.840 The only reason they're not negotiating with me over the debt ceiling now is we don't have the four votes to oppose them.

00:42:39.120 If we had the four votes, we'd have already separated it over the debt ceiling.

00:42:42.280 And I would be a yes now.

00:42:44.660 How frustrated?

00:42:45.320 You just mentioned it a little bit.

00:42:46.440 Do you think the president is with you?

00:42:51.540 A little bit.

00:42:52.720 You know, I've known him for quite a while.

00:42:55.700 Is your relationship with the president, sorry to cut you off a little bit, but is your relationship with the president a little bit of a roller coaster?

00:43:02.020 Because sometimes it seems like you guys are thick as thieves, and then other times it's like you're kind of at each other a little bit.

00:43:08.120 Do you feel like a little bit over the decade that you've been a roller coaster with the president?

00:43:12.920 Well, it's kind of funny because I personally like him, played golf with him a dozen times.

00:43:17.820 I played golf with him before he was president, probably 2013, 2014.

00:43:22.260 I asked him to support some of my mission trips when I did surgery in Guatemala, and I believe it was 2013 or 2014.

00:43:29.200 And then in Haiti, he supported both trips.

00:43:32.220 And so I've gotten to know him over time and actually enjoy his company.

00:43:36.340 I was probably one of his biggest defenders on the impeachment.

00:43:39.980 But, you know, there is a mercurial nature to it, though, that, you know, I think those were very important things to defense on that.

00:43:47.740 I think this bill is just a policy difference.

00:43:50.660 And I'm not changing anything I'm for.

00:43:52.760 I've always been against raising massive raises of the debt ceiling, whether it's Biden or anybody else.

00:43:58.660 But I think some of his attack dogs at the White House simply, you know, it's my way or the highway kind of stuff.

00:44:05.880 But the last time I talked to him, we had a good conversation.

00:44:08.080 It was after the big, beautiful parade, and he was in good spirits.

00:44:12.480 And, you know, I reiterated what it would take and that my goal is not to defeat the bill.

00:44:18.700 My goal is to, you know, present a conservative bill that I can be happy to support and a lot of the bill I like.

00:44:25.060 All I got to do is separate out the debt ceiling or shorten it, and they could well get my vote.

00:44:30.640 But, yeah, the relationship's up and down.

00:44:33.060 But I think still a lot of, you know, respect on my part.

00:44:38.580 We're talking to Senator Rand Paul.

00:44:40.200 Last question for you.

00:44:42.200 You know, I know looking ahead to 2028 is a ways away.

00:44:45.540 We still have to get past the midterms.

00:44:47.460 But there's a lot of talk about Andy Beshear in your state running for president.

00:44:52.560 He was one of the worst governors in America, certainly the worst governor, I would say, of a red state during COVID. 0.83

00:44:57.960 Is it kind of staggering to you that he would be a national political figure based on what you have seen of his leadership in Kentucky?

00:45:05.100 I've yet to see that he'll be any kind of national figure.

00:45:09.240 I think he lacks the, you know, charisma.

00:45:12.840 But he also, the things that he did to us in our state, I mean, shutting down churches, shutting down gyms, shutting down, you know, stores, you name it, limiting how many people can show up anywhere, banning travel.

00:45:25.620 I mean, the authoritarian things he did in our state are what many other Democrats did, too.

00:45:30.920 Whitmer did some of the same stuff in Michigan, but I don't think that'll be popular.

00:45:35.260 I think he fools himself into thinking, well, if a Democrat had won in a Republican state, all Democrats like that think they're going to be the next Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton.

00:45:45.060 And that's yet to be seen.

00:45:46.340 But I kind of doubt it from what I've seen.

00:45:48.000 I can't imagine that he'll be much of a force in the Democrat primary.

00:45:53.100 Senator Rand Paul, we appreciate the time.

00:45:54.600 Happy to have you on whenever and keep us updated on how the bill goes.

00:45:58.700 Thanks.

00:45:59.100 That is Senator Rand Paul.

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00:46:48.780 Canadian women are looking for more. 1.00

00:46:59.000 More out of themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world around them.

00:47:03.460 And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast.

00:47:07.180 I'm Jennifer Stewart.

00:47:08.360 And I'm Catherine Clark.

00:47:09.640 And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women.

00:47:12.980 Entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, politicians, and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey.

00:47:19.100 So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us.

00:47:22.320 Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on iHeartRadio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

00:47:26.400 We are joined now by FCC Chairman Brendan Carr.

00:47:31.880 He's in studio with us here in Washington, D.C.

00:47:35.400 And I know you've got a ton of different things on your plate.

00:47:38.820 So I'm going to hit you with questions.

00:47:40.620 You may try to dodge some of them just because I understand you guys are pretty good at that.

00:47:45.080 So let's start off here.

00:47:47.520 I think now that President Trump is in office, it's fair to say that we have seen maybe a little bit of unfairness from ABC, CBS, NBC, among others.

00:48:00.160 They have a government responsibility based on the fact that we have given them a license as a country.

00:48:08.220 How fair, now that we're through the election season, do you think news coverage has been?

00:48:13.660 What could occur from your perspective to make it fairer?

00:48:18.080 Because they're supposed to be, as a part of getting a license, you can correct me if I'm wrong, not providing some form of biased news coverage.

00:48:25.420 But I think most people that are listening to us right now would really roll their eyes at the idea that ABC, NBC, and CBS are providing in some way fair and balanced news coverage.

00:48:35.740 Yeah, thanks so much.

00:48:36.400 Great to be with you.

00:48:37.240 You know, look, if you step back and you think about speakers in this country, you've got, you know, the guy in the soapbox gets to say whatever he wants.

00:48:43.720 You've got cable channels, which are lightly regulated.

00:48:45.780 But when it comes to television stations, those are licensed by the FCC.

00:48:50.180 Yes.

00:48:50.620 And they are required by federal law to operate in the public interest.

00:48:55.340 Now, if you step back over the years, the FCC and regulators in Washington, I think, have walked away completely from enforcing that public interest obligation.

00:49:03.420 I don't think we're better off for it.

00:49:04.880 To your question, if you step back, I don't think the national programmers, if you look at ABC, CBS, NBC, they own some stations.

00:49:11.340 But in the main, they program content that goes out through licensed stations.

00:49:15.340 I don't think they've been fair at all if you step back and look at their coverage in terms of Republicans or President Trump.

00:49:21.260 And frankly, that's not just my opinion.

00:49:23.220 If you look at trust in that national programmers, again, focusing on ABC, CBS, NBC, trust is at an all-time low.

00:49:30.940 Again, Jeff Bezos, of all people, did an op-ed not that long ago saying that these national media outlets have lost the thread when it comes to where the American public is.

00:49:41.000 But the good news is this.

00:49:41.920 There's another side of the coin.

00:49:43.340 When you talk about the actual local broadcast TV stations, the ones that actually hold the license by the FCC, when they run programming, it's actually really trusted by local communities.

00:49:51.560 So the biggest policy that we're running at the FCC in terms of media right now is how do we empower the local broadcasters to serve the public interest and allow them to get some distance from the national programmers that are really just generating content in Hollywood, in New York, and sort of force-feeding it out there.

00:50:09.820 So I think there's actually a lot the FCC can do that addresses this issue and, again, focusing on that unique public interest obligations that TV channels have.

00:50:19.080 That is super interesting because I think most people out there listening to us right now, when there is a major thunderstorm, for instance, and they are at home, they trust their local news to provide them accurate coverage about danger, tornadoes, everything else.

00:50:32.240 But they certainly don't trust the national news to provide them.

00:50:35.640 So I hadn't really thought about that dichotomy.

00:50:37.520 It's interesting.

00:50:38.800 NPR-PBS, we have seen the vote barely get passed in the House to take away their funding as it pertains to government dollars.

00:50:46.940 I've always thought it's crazy.

00:50:48.720 To my knowledge, we don't get a massive amount of government support.

00:50:52.080 We compete with NPR.

00:50:53.300 This show does, the premier networks all over the country, and it's always felt like an unfair competition that they get these dollars.

00:51:01.300 We don't.

00:51:02.240 What do you think?

00:51:03.360 What kind of optics does the FCC have on those issues? 0.66

00:51:06.440 It really wasn't that long ago.

00:51:08.460 If you looked at a cross-section of the listeners and viewer to NPR and PBS, you'd get a pretty decent cross-section of the country as a whole.

00:51:16.160 And at some point not that long ago, things changed dramatically, and it appears that NPR and PBS have been appealing to a very narrow, bespoke, almost a seller, corridor portion of the country.

00:51:27.780 And you can do that, right, as a First Amendment matter.

00:51:30.060 But if you are going to Congress and saying, I want you, Congress, to force people to take money out of their pocketbooks, send it to Washington, and then send it to subsidize that,

00:51:41.340 I think it's entirely legitimate for people to be asking questions about that.

00:51:44.440 And to your point, recently a rescission package passed the House that would save about a billion dollars from that funding.

00:51:52.960 The FCC, we've launched actually an investigation into NPR and PBS, and here's why.

00:51:57.900 They are unlike any other station, like a station here, a commercial station.

00:52:01.260 They're non-commercial, which means they get special benefits above and beyond those that regular broadcasters get.

00:52:06.480 But as a consequence, they can't run advertising.

00:52:09.780 But what it looks like they've been doing is running programs that appear to be very close, if not to advertisements themselves.

00:52:16.560 So we've launched an inquiry at the FCC to make sure that they're not violating the law.

00:52:21.400 Because really, you can't have it both ways.

00:52:22.480 You can't be getting public funding and claiming that you're non-commercial and then potentially at the same time running commercial.

00:52:28.380 So we're looking at that as well right now.

00:52:29.960 CBS News, in the news a lot, you got the transcript released of 60 Minutes, the interview that they did with Kamala Harris right before the election that was edited in many different ways, potentially beneficially to her.

00:52:43.620 What can you tell us about the investigation into 60 Minutes, and how does that impact the larger, paramount idea they're trying to sell to Skydance, I believe?

00:52:53.260 Where is all of that from your perspective?

00:52:55.080 Yeah, right before January 20th, in fact, right around January 10th, I believe, the prior administration, the Biden FCC, summarily dismissed a news distortion complaint that had been filed against 60 Minutes based on claims of editing around that answer to Kamala Harris in the 60 Minutes episode.

00:53:13.480 They dismissed it without actually doing any real inquiry, without doing any due diligence.

00:53:18.260 And so one of the very first things that we did was we restored that complaint against CBS.

00:53:22.280 We've put it out for public comment. And to your point, we obtained the unedited transcript and video of that interview.

00:53:28.300 We've put it all out there. I think sunlight is the best disinfected.

00:53:30.820 So right now, the American people are participating in this process.

00:53:33.240 We haven't made a final decision, but we are weighing whether, in fact, it is a news distortion or not.

00:53:37.900 And that's under active investigation at the FCC.

00:53:40.820 Separate from that, we do have a transaction before the FCC where the owners of CBS are looking to sell.

00:53:46.440 And as of right now, we're just running our normal course review on that and no significant update as to where we are on that.

00:53:52.280 When you look at the spectrum, and I know people think about this a lot.

00:53:58.020 I was out in San Francisco recently, got to go in a Waymo.

00:54:01.400 I felt like I was in the future.

00:54:03.500 Before all the Waymo started getting burned.

00:54:04.460 Before all the Waymo started getting burned.

00:54:05.840 Good. Get out of there, Clay.

00:54:07.200 We got out safely there.

00:54:09.720 Doing research on that, the amount of spectrum that's going to be required for autonomous vehicles is actually pretty extraordinary.

00:54:17.020 The government, I'm sure a lot of people out there understand this may not, has control of the wireless spectrum universe out there.

00:54:25.300 Is there enough to be able to handle all the technology coming?

00:54:30.060 What would be beneficial in your mind as you look at the auctions of this spectrum and the utilization of the spectrum?

00:54:36.720 This is a really important issue.

00:54:38.280 It's a practical issue.

00:54:39.320 It's a national security issue.

00:54:40.800 Most people, when they pick up their smartphone or they hop into a Waymo, they just assume it works.

00:54:44.780 They don't know how.

00:54:45.440 Maybe they think it's magic or pixie dust.

00:54:47.780 But it's these invisible airways that you need to power everything.

00:54:51.900 And when you look at the future of technology, whether it's autonomous vehicles, whether it's AR, VR, AI, the data demand to carry data traffic wirelessly is just like a hockey stick through the roof.

00:55:03.300 And right now, China has leaked out to a really significant lead over the U.S.

00:55:07.660 It didn't used to be this way.

00:55:08.500 If you go back to the first Trump administration, China was ahead of us early on, and President Trump stepped in, showed strong leadership, and the U.S. closed the gap.

00:55:16.400 That's why you saw 4G and 5G explode in the U.S.

00:55:19.480 Now, President Biden stepped in, and we just fell into a deep malaise when it comes to freeing up spectrum.

00:55:26.220 And President Trump recently has articulated that he wants the U.S. to lead again, and we're going to do it.

00:55:30.060 So one of the things that the One Big Beautiful Bill does is it restores the F.C.'s authority to free up these airways, which last during the Biden years.

00:55:38.780 Senator Cruz, Chairman Cruz, has been phenomenal in leading on this.

00:55:42.280 But we are hundreds of megahertz behind where China is right now.

00:55:46.320 And to your point, our commercial sector needs it.

00:55:49.120 DOD uses it as well.

00:55:50.420 But I think ultimately right now where we're short is commercial spectrum for high-power use.

00:55:55.140 President Trump and Chairman Cruz have been clear, but it's national security, it's economic growth, and it's bridging the digital divide because we use that spectrum to connect people, to connect communities.

00:56:03.760 Your job, to a large extent, I would think, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, is to try to allow the marketplace of ideas to work at the best of its manner and ensure that the government is not putting a hand or a finger on the scale to allow one side to have an advantage.

00:56:22.180 How fair do you think the overall media environment is, from your perspective as FCC chairman, when you look at it across the scope of all of the different arenas that you are monitoring right now?

00:56:35.540 Do you think we have a fair system in place right now, or do you think there's still a lot of things that need to be done?

00:56:41.180 Well, I think there's still significant ways to go in terms of making sure that broadcasters in particular live up to their public interest obligation.

00:56:48.520 Again, the studies and survey in terms of lack of trust speak to that.

00:56:53.220 But if you step back, particularly during COVID, we saw this massive acceleration of censorship in this country, and a lot of it took place on social media and on big tech platforms.

00:57:02.780 Silicon Valley was deciding whether you got to stay on the digital town square, what you could say.

00:57:08.020 And the evidence also shows that the Biden administration was effectively colluding with a lot of these social media companies to shut down free speech.

00:57:14.880 And it didn't just happen here in the U.S. It's spreading globally in Brazil.

00:57:18.940 There's this Justice de Moura, this government official there that's been censoring social media in Europe.

00:57:23.580 They're passing laws to sort of force U.S. technology companies to abide by their version of censorship.

00:57:29.320 And so to some extent, we are on the backside of that, meaning as the government controls with COVID rescind, we see free speech reemerge.

00:57:37.080 Because you can't have both, right?

00:57:37.840 If you're going to have massive government controls that came with censorship, that came with COVID, you necessarily have censorship as well, because free speech is a check on those types of government controls.

00:57:46.600 And President Trump has come in and very clearly said that he's going to restore free speech in this country.

00:57:50.900 So whether it's the work of the FCC, the Federal Trade Commission is doing great work on this.

00:57:55.060 The DOJ, we're looking to sort of break up that collusive conduct that really amounted, in my view, to a censorship cartel.

00:58:03.000 There's still work to do, but I think we're finally turning the tide on that.

00:58:06.420 Yeah, and I'm sure a lot of people out there listening right now, listening to us on traditional radios, podcasts, certainly still watching some news broadcasts, CBS, ABC, NBC.

00:58:17.100 But for my kids, they get almost all their news from TikTok and YouTube.

00:58:21.460 So to your point on the power of media, the dynamic has shifted in a big way.

00:58:27.520 Like, I don't even know that my kids could find local news on television other than watching sports.

00:58:32.580 They never watch it.

00:58:33.540 But everything through YouTube, and I'll give you an example on this program, YouTube wouldn't allow our interview with President Trump to be posted.

00:58:41.780 We just had Rand Paul on at the top of the hour.

00:58:45.520 They wouldn't allow our interview with Rand Paul to be posted because they said something that YouTube didn't like.

00:58:51.500 But in an election universe, in a democratic universe, should it, at a bare minimum, everything that a political figure says be distributed as widely as possible and not restricted and censored?

00:59:04.360 Yeah, absolutely.

00:59:04.820 One of the things that I focus a lot on is this concept of user empowerment.

00:59:07.980 Look, we don't want any one single centralized authority, whether it's a Silicon Valley company or otherwise, deciding who can participate in the town square.

00:59:16.000 What can they say in the digital town square?

00:59:17.860 We need to empower individuals.

00:59:19.440 So if you don't want to see Rand Paul, great, don't follow him.

00:59:21.720 If you don't want to see this video, okay, block or unfollow the show.

00:59:25.080 But we need to sort of get those decision-making decisions back into the hands of individual users and take it out of the hands of the big corporations.

00:59:34.420 For instance, on social media, you know, one idea we've talked about is should we have content filters that you can choose?

00:59:39.180 Like, let's say you want, for reasons that escape me, but you want MSNBC to filter your feed for you.

00:59:43.200 Okay, plug that in and do it. 0.88

00:59:44.700 If you want, you know, this show to have one, great.

00:59:46.940 If you want Fox News to do it, great.

00:59:48.020 But let's get that power back to individuals and less this centralized.

00:59:52.520 Because when you make a mistake at a system-wide level like that, like, the consequences are very serious.

00:59:58.160 People think about, well, there's harm that comes from hate speech, which obviously is protected by the First Amendment.

01:00:03.060 But think about the other side of it.

01:00:04.300 Like, when you couldn't talk about the origins of COVID-19, when you couldn't talk about the costs and benefits of masking young children who were trying to get speech development at that point in time.

01:00:13.100 So there's very real harms that flowed from the censorship that we live through, let alone, you know, electoral consequences with a hundred-byte laptop story that was on.

01:00:21.060 The last question for you, AI is taking off at a rapid rate.

01:00:27.000 And we have fun with AI memes that people will post of me playing the flute, like, and all sorts of ridiculous things out there.

01:00:34.300 But it's rapidly evolving to the point where I think being able to determine what's real and what's fake is going to become really very difficult.

01:00:42.440 Are you concerned about that?

01:00:44.040 Because it's one thing to restrict something that we know is real.

01:00:46.920 But how in the world do we have the ability to let people know what is true and what is false and what someone's actually said and not said?

01:00:54.560 Yeah.

01:00:54.820 Have you seen these AI-generated videos of the podcasters that are in the baby format?

01:00:59.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:01:00.280 Those are hilarious.

01:01:00.940 Yes, those are hilarious.

01:01:02.000 I don't know if they've had any of those views of you or not.

01:01:03.860 I think they may think I'm a baby already.

01:01:05.500 Yeah, I fell down a meme hole at one time looking at all those.

01:01:08.520 I thought they were hilarious.

01:01:09.120 I mean, look, I think we'd be very careful here.

01:01:10.940 During the last administration, President Biden had the FCC propose putting labels on political speech, political ads, that were generated in any way with AI content.

01:01:22.340 And really, it just became a way of sort of slowing down the use of AI because they viewed it as, in my view, Republicans were being more successful in the meme wars than they were.

01:01:31.200 So I think there is some harm, as you noted, but I think we have to be very careful that we don't stifle this early on because ultimately it can start to look a lot like censorship.

01:01:38.980 So I do think that people need to be vigilant and we need to educate people.

01:01:43.000 And it's, I think, easier for younger folks.

01:01:44.560 I think older people can get, you know, fooled a little more easily.

01:01:46.340 Well, if you're just stepping back and looking at online scams in general, but I think this is an area where we have to proceed very cautiously and I'd be very, you know, skeptical of regulation at this point.

01:01:53.560 FCC Chairman Brendan Carr, I appreciate the time.

01:01:56.240 Appreciate you coming in video, coming in studio with us, sitting on video here.

01:02:00.720 And we hope to talk to you again soon.

01:02:02.220 Yeah, good to be with you.

01:02:02.820 Thanks.

01:02:03.160 For sure.

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Verdict with Ted Cruz - June 17, 2025

Bonus： Daily Review With Clay and Buck - Jun 17 2025

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