00:00:51.200I plan to be flying in an F-5 fighter jet painted in Freedom 250 colors along with four other fighter jets flying over the nation's capital.
00:00:59.200Listen to Newt's World on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:06.740Welcome, everybody, to the Tuesday edition of Clay and Buck.
00:01:11.880Clay on his way back, I believe, from Hawaii.
00:01:33.660By 6-3, although there's a little bit of an asterisk, makes it feel more 5-4,
00:01:39.700but by 6-3, the court decided that if someone is born on U.S. soil anywhere,
00:01:48.440for any reason at any time criminal conspiracy of birth tourism included uh you you name it
00:02:00.080they are with the only exception being diplomats which was previously carved out um they are u.s
00:02:08.060citizens they they have come down with this decision that i think is one of the worst in the
00:02:16.440history of the court quite honestly alito justice alito oh let me give you some of the
00:02:22.620uh some of the the stats the details just so we can have a really robust conversation about this
00:02:30.280it's important we talk about it and understand what is not just in the decision but what happens
00:02:36.460now this is a big deal unfortunately it's a bad big deal but this is as alito wrote one of the
00:02:44.780most important decisions in the history of the court and in my judgment the court has made a
00:02:49.720serious mistake so you had gorsuch alito thomas see this for what it is that's the three who just
00:03:02.580said you guys have got to be kidding me i mean in in other words but that was their bottom line on
00:03:10.000this you can't really believe that somebody who shows up and this happens this isn't just a
00:03:18.280theoretical this happens every day in this country we'll get to the trend by the way the trans
00:03:22.920athlete thing that went in our favor so that's good news there is some good news to discuss today
00:03:28.280as well and there was also a ruling on on political campaign uh finance donations we'll get to that
00:03:35.240that's much smaller potatoes right now than this the trans ruling went our way but that
00:03:40.800i think was expected i mean that would have just been the court no longer can read plain english
00:03:46.000this well maybe the court can't read plain english think about some of the things that have had to be
00:03:52.520had to be taken up by the supreme court does the word temporary in fact mean temporary as in not
00:04:00.900forever and will end at some point the court had to rule on that the democrats on the court
00:04:05.200that's what they are people say the liberals they're democrats the democrats on the court
00:04:09.940said no temporary actually means forever because you're mean that was troubling today the court
00:04:16.640did find that when the law says biological sex and separation thereof under title nine
00:04:22.460it actually is biological sex and just because somebody might really really really want that
00:04:28.440word or that reality to be something else it does not change so that's encouraging but
00:04:33.320let's get back here to the big one which is the birthright citizenship case
00:04:41.660the court and this came up in in oral arguments before uh the court has said today
00:04:52.320in essence or no really actually quite explicitly i shouldn't even say in essence
00:04:58.100if a chinese birth and that's where there's a lot of this birth tourism that goes on
00:05:02.540And that also raises concerns in this country because that's our primary geopolitical and economic rival.
00:05:10.360There's a lot of subversion, a lot of espionage, a lot of working against the interests of the American people happening when it comes to China.
00:05:22.060The Supreme Court today said that if a Chinese birth tourist breaks, it is against the law to do this, keep in mind.
00:05:32.540birth tourist shows up here has a baby here takes that baby out of that hospital in san francisco or
00:05:39.380los angeles or wherever goes back to china they can come back here in 18 live their whole life
00:05:47.500in beijing maybe they don't speak a word of english maybe all they've learned is how terrible
00:05:51.880america is they can come back here at age 18 and they're as american as you and i they are as
00:05:59.920american as apple pie i i my friends it it's deeply distressing just to say that out loud
00:06:08.580could be because we know at a gut at an instinctual dare i say at an american level that is just not
00:06:17.420true it's just not true the court can say it's true but the court also said that there was a
00:06:23.380special right to privacy to kill a baby in the womb they were wrong on that one for a long time
00:06:28.920the court also ruled in dred scott the court also ruled in roe v wade the court they have been wrong
00:06:36.940in the past and i think this is wrong and it wasn't 9-0 it wasn't like oh my gosh there's
00:06:44.800no real question of fact here or there's no question of law it was 6-3 and kavanaugh says
00:06:50.460look i gotta go right now with the majority as in this is the law now but he thinks that congress
00:06:58.140can just change this but the majority held that this is actually constitutional that this is
00:07:07.500in the constitution and therefore a act of the legislature alone would not be enough you would
00:07:14.200need a constitutional amendment you would need a constitutional amendment the court says today
00:07:20.580to make it no longer the case that an illegal who shows up here from Nicaragua
00:07:28.640comes across the border, has a baby here, and maybe goes back home
00:07:34.140and then returns at age 18 or returns.
00:07:38.820That could return in a few decades and run for president.
00:07:50.580But I sit here and I tell you what has happened today, but I also tell you that as far as
00:07:55.980I am concerned, a majority of the Supreme Court has decided that to be legally American
00:08:01.780is so debased that it can in fact be obtained as the proceeds of criminal conspiracy, and
00:08:10.640that the founders who risked hanging to forge this nation wanted us all one day to think
00:08:16.100that citizenship is just a game a joke a scheme of no real meaning no bonds of fraternity friendship
00:08:26.620or nation among us it's just words on a page courtesy of some bureaucrat somewhere that is it
00:08:37.740it's a devastating ruling now now that i think we've explained at least the basics of what this
00:08:46.540is they're saying subject to the jurisdiction thereof that was always the now keep in mind
00:08:52.060the congress had to change uh change the law after the 14th amendment because of native americans
00:09:01.460were not considered initially to be automatically citizens as a result of the passage of the 14th
00:09:07.600amendment the 14th amendment explicitly had to deal with freed slaves and that they are americans
00:09:13.540and that they are false citizens and there should be and can be no question or debate about that
00:09:19.600it is ludicrous it is ludicrous for the justices to sit there and say you know that also covers
00:09:28.900people who are subject to foreign citizenship and foreign law who come here in violation of
00:09:36.960our law have a baby and even return home that's one thing the anchor baby thing is bad enough
00:09:44.160because that is the proceeds of of a crime it's it's a benefit and let me also point out that
00:09:51.200anchor babies of all kinds are a rapid pathway for the rest of the family that's what there's
00:09:58.180the anchor to keep them here but there's also the anchor pulling in the rest of the foreigners to
00:10:03.640skip the to the front of the and then we're told it's family reunification this is a huge
00:10:09.400incentive for people to continue to game our immigration system and it's happening at the
00:10:15.320same time that we are told we need to pay more we need to pay more taxes there needs to be more
00:10:20.860rules more laws on the law abiding more restrictions on the productive you're not doing enough
00:10:26.820nicholas christophe of the new york times is saying that elon musk has killed millions of
00:10:32.020children because of cuts to USAID if we aren't paying you and I aren't paying to put gas in the
00:10:41.960tanks of cars in West Africa or the Sudan or or Cambodia and there's any problem over there it's
00:10:53.960our fault we're literally killing children that is the position of the left now so we have to
00:11:00.560come together and have a conversation about what does it in fact mean to be american what is it to
00:11:05.720be american even some on our own side i think air when they say well we are just a creedal nation no
00:11:11.800we are a people and a creed we are two things simultaneously and one cannot be separated from
00:11:18.540the other if you change the people entirely the creed does not matter if you change the creed
00:11:24.060entirely well then the people will be led astray but this supreme court is absolutely leading us
00:11:29.660astray with this decision it is distressing and it's not just because i think it shows
00:11:38.660a mentality that a large portion of the country shares that americanness is just status
00:11:46.860something that can be changed with the check of a box with the wave of a bureaucratic wand
00:11:52.880there's nothing to it you don't have to speak english you don't have to share our history
00:11:58.320you don't have to even grow up or live or be around any of us you could in fact according
00:12:04.300to justice roberts who is a coward and kavanaugh who well he's not as bad coney barrett who i think
00:12:13.080is just not as smart as the others just being honest with you i'm talking about the conservatives
00:12:16.360uh they think that if you live your whole life in beijing but you spent five days here after being
00:12:23.880born in san francisco you should be able to run for president in america you are a u.s citizen
00:12:30.680we should be willing to deploy seal team six anywhere in the globe to save your ass even if
00:12:37.720you've lived in beijing for 40 years because you spent five days here in san francisco and they
00:12:43.620decided that subject to the jurisdiction thereof on a tourist visa means you're american
00:12:50.440the problem is my friends they have opened the definition so wide that you'd have to ask
00:12:57.660if everyone is american then what does it even mean to be american if the bar is so low if it
00:13:04.920is so debased as i said what are we left with let me tell you anybody who is feeling a little
00:13:13.080squeamish about deporting as many illegals in the country as possible before i hope this is a wake-up
00:13:19.420call to you the left the democrats the communists in this country that's right the communists in
00:13:26.280our midst they view this place america as a commune they want us they want us to be
00:13:34.380subject to all the other jurisdictions thereof as well they want to take what is yours they want to
00:13:40.140give it to others they want you to shut your mouth in the process this is a very dark day
00:13:46.180on the court this is a very dark day for america we will fight on we will keep pushing but i cannot
00:13:52.600sugarcoat it for you this was a devastating ruling from the court and you have to wonder you ask
00:14:00.440yourself how many people going forward are going to be willing to fight and die for an economic
00:14:06.000zone how many americans going forward are going to say i will answer the call i will go anywhere
00:14:13.280the commander-in-chief tells me to and risk my life and be away from my family and not see my
00:14:19.000children and not be next to my wife or my husband for months and months perhaps even over a year at
00:14:26.540a time on deployment how many will do that knowing that it is so cheap and to be american that someone
00:14:32.140can show up here for five minutes and have all the same rights all the same benefits but somehow
00:14:39.580not the same obligations as you and me they have no answers for that to you uh for you today on the
00:14:47.700court and i wish i had all the answers on this but i don't honestly it's a uh it's a bad day
00:14:53.500for the country we fight on we don't cry we don't whine we take it we process it and we will move
00:15:02.820forward that is my promise to you here on the show i'm sure a lot of you are going to have
00:15:06.320thoughts on this let's talk about it i will get to the transgender ruling which was absolutely the
00:15:12.260right ruling and important it is a good ruling it is an important ruling it today is overshadowed
00:15:19.160somewhat by this birthright citizenship ruling that over it just it undoes the trump executive
00:15:26.700order on this i didn't get into some of that background but that's the long and the short of
00:15:30.620it all right look your parents can relate to this especially if you have young kids
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00:18:39.700but we can easily make it up in Congress through legislation,
00:18:42.620which has the support of the president.
00:18:45.880what do you think about that what are the i mean let's just jump right to the legislative ways to
00:18:52.140at least make citizenship something that feels less like a joke yeah it's common sense that if
00:18:59.620you're here and you know unlawfully here in the country and you have a child that that child should
00:19:04.600not the back of you i mean i think even alito in his in his dissent said in my judgment the court
00:19:10.300and made a mistake, a mistake that will seriously affect the country's future.
00:19:14.580So if that's a situation, let's look at legislative ways to fix it.
00:19:18.360I think you just have to write something straightforward like, no,
00:19:21.140the 14th Amendment was written at a different time for a different situation,
00:19:25.140i.e., you know, dealing with the evil of slavery and the aftermath of all that.
00:19:30.400And then the fact that you were born here does not actually make you subject to it
00:19:36.080just by the fact you're born, it shouldn't fit that clause.
00:19:39.200So I think that is the key takeaway. But but unfortunately, it was what five for the other direction.
00:19:44.040And the court said, no, the 14th Amendment is going to be interpreted in a way that says you are a citizen.
00:19:48.860Is it is it I'd have to look at this. I know that birth tourism is illegal.
00:19:54.100There have been cases brought against usually the the like birth tourism center or the place that is conspiring to to bring in people to do this.
00:20:04.260my understanding is that you know that that is illegal is there any restriction on visas for
00:20:11.820people from countries coming here at six months or eight months or whatever it may be pregnant
00:20:17.460depending on how long they have to stay in the country is is that also something to be looked at
00:20:22.160because people are wondering short of a sweeping change in what just happened today how do we
00:20:28.280tighten things up because this is just going to be a free-for-all now yeah well we do need to
00:20:33.640tighten things up in a host of ways and make sure that in the event we get another Joe Biden,
00:20:39.940he can't do what he did, which is allow 10 million people just to come in the country all
00:20:43.520claiming asylum and saying temporary protected status is not temporary. It's forever. And all
00:20:49.240the things that he did. So we do need, and maybe when we put that legislation together, which we
00:20:53.620passed in the House last Congress, maybe we need to go back and do some of that again.
00:20:58.360We can look at what you just described. Oh, there should be further stipulations if it looks like
00:21:03.360this is going on. In fact, Alito used that term in his in his dissent. He talked about birth
00:21:08.100tourists. And that was one of the things he cited. So maybe we do need to look at that as well. But
00:21:14.060I do know we need to tighten up the asylum laws, need to fix the what's called the floors decision.
00:21:18.380We need to make sure there can't be no catch and release. Those things we need to get into law so
00:21:22.060that we don't have 10 million people coming across the border like we all like, like what happened
00:21:27.400with president biden now i know you are doing a hearing i believe right after you're done with us
00:21:34.300here on air up on capitol hill with angel moms and this obviously goes very much to the issue
00:21:39.540of illegal immigration and uh law enforcement what's going on with this tell everybody what's
00:21:44.680happening sanctuary jurisdictions is the dumbest policy i've ever heard understand what they did
00:21:49.680systematic plan of the left they let in 10 million people under joe biden then they create
00:21:53.820jurisdictions where it makes it difficult to remove those individuals, even when they commit
00:21:57.940another crime. Because remember, sanctuary jurisdiction is simply politicians telling
00:22:01.780local law enforcement you can't work with federal law enforcement when it comes to enforcing federal
00:22:07.840law. And then, of course, the third step was Democrats try not to pay ICE. They try to abolish
00:22:12.560ICE. So this is their systematic plan. And what happens is real consequences for families like
00:22:17.680Ms. Gorman, who was the student at Loyola, who was killed by an illegal migrant who had committed a crime and who was let out because they wanted to be soft on people and take into effect their deportation status when they decide whether to charge people with crimes or what kind of a sentence or plea agreement they might get.
00:22:35.840This guy kills Ms. Gorman, and her mother is testifying today at 2 o'clock.
00:22:40.800So it's all part of us. We've passed legislation already out of our committee to address the sanctuary jurisdiction problem, which, again, is part of this systematic plan of the left.
00:22:50.500Oh, by the way, a third of the country – we've talked about this, I think, before, Buck – but a third of the country lives in a jurisdiction that is a sanctuary jurisdiction because it's all the big blue cities and big blue states.
00:23:00.940it's ridiculous that a third of the country their political class tells the local law enforcement
00:23:06.380don't work with federal law enforcement and the consequences are what happened to
00:23:09.920to sheridan gorman whose mom jessica is going to be testifying at two o'clock today in our hearing
00:23:14.680now legislation is a good idea it will also run up against the realities of a democrat
00:23:23.400filibuster or threat thereof in the senate side right so there are limitations this is good for
00:23:30.080the conversation this is good to show people what sides of the issue democrats and republicans on
00:23:35.580capitol hill stand but i would ask you know you know president trump very well and you are quite
00:23:41.760aware of what's going on with the executive branch which has critical functions that are still
00:23:47.380underway here critical uh missions that are underway to enforce the laws when it comes to
00:23:53.280immigration uh senator mark wayne mullen your former congress well you know senate side but
00:23:58.060congressional colleague a he was on tv over the weekend and said something about well there's all
00:24:03.380these haitians who are no longer covered by tps but they can apply for other things and see how
00:24:08.280that goes people did not like that let me just ask you are are you hearing and you would know
00:24:14.220because you talked to them is the executive branch dialed in and ready to go with the kinds of
00:24:20.780enforcement operations that have been promised from the very beginning of the trump presidency
00:24:25.140i.e. are there major deportation operations that are coming yeah i mean it's been over uh you know
00:24:32.360a million some that um have been deported in in president trump's here year and a half in office
00:24:38.680uh and of course we've got the the ruling on temporary protected status and in simple terms
00:24:43.300temporary means temporary and i think it was uh someone who works at dhs was on doing an interview
00:24:49.500Their statement was to folks is, look, you don't have to go back to your home country.
00:24:57.060So that's pretty direct, saying that people are going to have to leave.
00:25:02.260Now, are there other programs that can apply?
00:25:03.680I don't know exactly what those would be, but maybe they can claim something.
00:25:09.480But it seems to me then you're going to have to touch back and reapply in some kind of asylum or whatever you want to do.
00:25:17.300But, yeah, I think that this administration has done what they've said they were going to do in enforcing the law and going after people who are here illegally, particularly ones who have committed crime.
00:25:28.680It's why this, again, I come back to the sanctuary jurisdiction, why this is such a stupid policy, and yet it's being embraced by the left, and it's currently in effect in about a third of the country.
00:25:38.180Well, is there a budgetary mechanism that, you know, that's where obviously the majority has much more leeway?
00:25:45.160I mean, we've heard about a possible withdrawal of funding for, for, for example, there's actually a lot of federal law enforcement dollars that go into a lot of these sanctuary, really all of them, but major jurisdictions and the federal government said, look, if you're not going to be helpful, we could pull back that funding.
00:26:02.600I mean, what are the other than the narrative, the discussion, the showing the American people what's going on?
00:26:09.320I know you're doing this hearing coming up.
00:26:11.320What are the levers that can actually be pulled so that sanctuary jurisdictions, if they're not going to change, at least feel the heat?
00:26:20.120One is that the power of the purse, which is the founders envision that as being the primary power that that legislative branch would have.
00:26:26.160That element is in our bill that we've passed out of our committee on sanctuary jurisdiction.
00:26:30.260The other element is you say to law enforcement, you can't be – if local law enforcement, which the vast majority do, if they want to work with a federal law enforcement to enforce the law – and again, most of them do – then we give them immunity from being harassed and targeted by their local political jurisdiction.
00:26:48.620And then third, we say, and this is the most powerful part, I think, in the legislation, we say, oh, to families like Ms. Gorman's mother, who's going to be testifying later today, we say you have a cause of action to go against the city, against the political entity that allowed this to happen, who said it was okay to release bad guys, not work with ICE, and then they commit some crime and harm your family.
00:27:10.320You have a cause of action, private right of action to go after them.
00:27:12.700So there's three key elements in the legislation, the money protecting of the law enforcement who want to work with federal law enforcement and the private right of action for families who've been harmed.
00:27:22.040Now, is that so that private right of action, that would be a statutory change?
00:28:20.420The main thing we want is this bill on sanctuary cities, sanctuary jurisdictions.
00:28:24.880We think that is the most important thing to pass.
00:28:27.420But as I said before, I do think it makes sense to codify, put into law things that Joe Biden was – to prevent the next Joe Biden from doing the things he did, like the catch and release.
00:28:39.960now we don't have that happening under president trump because he's actually he's actually you
00:28:44.360know secured the board like he said but it'd be nice to put things into law which make it more
00:28:48.680difficult for another democrat if you know you know if it happens we hope it doesn't but if a
00:28:53.820democrat gets back in the white house at some point making it tough for them to do what biden
00:28:58.100did can i ask you i think that we can do in that where's where we're talking to congressman jim
00:29:01.800jordan i know you got to go to a hearing in a second just one last one for you i'm hearing from
00:29:05.500some of my people that uh there's concern in the for the upcoming election for republicans
00:29:12.640in your home state of of ohio particularly on this i'm really just talking about on the senate and
00:29:18.000gubernatorial side in those races is that stuff overblown can you just give us a little insight
00:29:23.500into no it's we got good candidates uh vivek i think is great we endorsed him early uh like him
00:29:29.300i think he's going to do a great job for our state and same with senator husted but it's ohio you
00:29:33.560You know, and before President Trump came along, we were the bellwether state.
00:29:37.160Now, President Trump has made us a Trump-Republican state, but I do think the early polling shows that these races are real races, but I think we're going to win.
00:29:45.180I think it's going to require President Trump coming to our state, which I'm sure he will do, and helping with turnout with Trump voters, Trump-Republicans coming out to make sure they vote for Senator Husted and for Vivek as our next governor.
00:29:59.980But I think we can win, and there's also a pickup opportunity.
00:30:02.140I think we had a good chance to beat Marcy Kaptur in that Northwest Ohio-Toledo area congressional seat.
00:30:07.240I think we had a good chance there with our candidate, Derek Maron.
00:31:27.800The third hour of Clay and Buck starts right now.
00:31:30.280joined in studio in nyc where i got the whole team here uh my friend rafael manguello is with us he's
00:31:37.940got a book which i'm looking at is perfectly placed behind his head you should go buy it
00:31:42.400criminal injustice what the push for decarceration and depolicing gets wrong and who it hurts most
00:31:49.840is quite a subtitle sir criminal injustice though a great book you should get it but before we get
00:31:54.680into that can i can i get your take because you follow all legal stuff you follow immigration
00:31:57.820stuff so the um i feel like i'm just gonna guess you probably think that a man is a man as a woman
00:32:03.840is a woman and you're probably on board for uh for that easy peasy do not think macho man randy
00:32:08.300savage should be able to like stiff arm girls on the uh that's right on the it's a great south
00:32:12.560hockey isn't that amazing so good that's so timeless too because they did it to be like
00:32:17.400come on we all know that's crazy and now they're like no now there's yeah yeah no no this is that's
00:32:21.640real 240 pound guys with long hair who want to be like the female weightlifting champion and you
00:32:26.460know it's like i'm not here to talk about my transition that's right that's right so anyway
00:32:31.040um but on on the ruling today birthright citizenship i mean what just give me your
00:32:35.400take and also i want to you have a really interesting story a little bit on your legal
00:32:38.800legal immigration interesting story in your background uh but what do you think about
00:32:42.560scotus coming down today saying you know birth uh birth tourism for example citizen no question
00:32:49.500yeah look i mean i i i'm i'm more with the dissenters in this case i think you know the
00:32:54.080constitutional question though a hard one i do think plays out in the direction that you know
00:32:59.260say thomas and alito and gorsuch would have taken it um i was surprised to see uh the chief justice
00:33:04.700in the majority in that case um but look it's a it's a somewhat you know defensible position i
00:33:10.660think you know kavanaugh really had kind of the best of it you know where he had the right i
00:33:14.740think constitutional interpretation but did take issue with the fact that this was done through
00:33:18.440executive order um i think it's saying it's up to congress is i i think to me not to speak for you
00:33:24.260but i feel like okay that's i can see that and that's real just saying that this is what the
00:33:30.180con this is what the founders intended which is really what the majority under roberts i'm looking
00:33:34.180at this like you guys have got to be kidding me yeah look i mean i i think it's a it's a much
00:33:37.800harder argument to to make i think there's some real interesting sort of idiosyncrasies in terms
00:33:43.160of like you know what the the uh sort of founding or not really founding era right because these
00:33:48.380these are reconstruction amendments but um you know what what the the drafters had in mind at
00:33:54.360that time i don't think that it was as broad as they say it is i think you know this idea that
00:33:59.560simply just being subject to the laws of the united states is enough um is probably not right
00:34:04.180but look here's an opportunity for congress to be serious right i mean if this is a major national
00:34:10.040issue well there's only one course of action now so at at least it clarifies uh the scope of that
00:34:15.740debate and the only move forward is something that's practically impossible which is a
00:34:19.740constitutional amendment which you're not going to get so the audience may have figured out because
00:34:22.960your last name is manguel that you are not of the mayflower manguel that's right not of the mayflower
00:34:27.340so you you came here or your parents rather are are immigrants to the country my mother's an
00:34:32.640immigrant my dad's from puerto rico i'm sorry your mother's an immigrant to the country your dad
00:34:36.220Puerto Rico is U.S. U.S. citizens. That is right. We know that U.S. citizens. But tell this is really interesting about the D.R. tell about your dad. That was fast. My mom. I'm sorry. Your mom. So my mom. My mom is a Dominican immigrant. Came to this country in the 60s legally. My grandfather came first.
00:34:54.240So it was one of those sort of traditional immigrant stories where he leaves his home country to set out for more opportunity here in the United States and then saves up enough to eventually send for the rest of his family, his wife and his kids.
00:35:06.480But the way that he was able to get his visa to come here in the first place legally was that he was helping out the U.S. Marines when they landed in the Dominican Republic in the 1960s in the wake of the overthrow of the Dominican dictator, Rafael Trujillo, who was assassinated in, I think, 1961.
00:35:24.460And that threw the country into a state of tumult.
00:35:26.960So there were all these sort of competing factions within the military.
00:35:30.580And my grandfather, because he spoke English and had admired America, kind of played a couple of interesting roles in his community.
00:35:38.980One was sort of giving the rest of the neighborhood the news that was coming from the state.
00:35:44.300So they had this radio where they could listen to U.S.-based commentary about what was going on and he could give an accurate take on that.
00:35:52.100But he could also help feed intelligence to the Marines.
00:35:56.360And that was how he was able to eventually get to this country, which he is a citizen of and loves deeply.
00:36:29.020We had Daria Lisa Avila-Chevalier, who ran for the seat in New York 13 against the incumbent, who is the head of the Hispanic caucus, Adriana Espillat.
00:36:40.760And she beat him in a district that is heavily constituted by Dominican immigrants and Dominican descendants.
00:36:49.120What's interesting, though, is that she won that race while losing the Dominican vote.
00:36:53.820She won in the places around Columbia University, around Barnard College.
00:36:58.900It was basically like grad students, and I believe black voters, too, actually went for her over Espaillat.
00:37:12.900Actually came to this country, I think, illegally.
00:37:14.820You know, she was undocumented for a time, you know, but sort of rose to the ranks, traditional American story.
00:37:19.900What was interesting is that her sort of socialist, you know, kind of leanings came into her old commentaries about the Dominican Republic itself, where she had actually said that Dominican nationalism was toxic, that it was anti Haitian, that it was anti black.
00:37:36.980And she had made references to the Dominican flag as like the sign of violence, which actually put her on bad footing with the Dominican community who had rejected her pretty soundly.
00:37:47.380In fact, the morning of the primary, she ended up walking off of an interview on the biggest Spanish-speaking radio station in New York City because they pressed her about what she said about the Dominican flag, and she refused to apologize.
00:37:59.260one thing that i have observed many times but is always a complete there's a befuddlement and a
00:38:04.440shock that particularly white leftists have in this country when they find out that non-white
00:38:09.800people in other places around the world have their own beefs and bigotries and problems with each
00:38:15.020other and that like even in the indian subcontinent there's racism sure among indians about skin color
00:38:21.300i mean it's you know it's far more complicated than just you know if you uh uh you know if you
00:38:25.740look like mit romney you can be racist and nobody else can be racist which is essentially what the
00:38:29.740what the yeah even the asian world especially yeah one thing that i will tell you i thought
00:38:34.980sorry i'm getting way off here we're gonna talk crime his book is criminal injustice let's go
00:38:39.020buy copies of it he's brilliant guy it's why i have him here in studio um but uh when i was in
00:38:43.460taiwan this past september um there's the clear i mean there's a uh for advertisements yeah they
00:38:50.200They make they make the women whiter than white.
00:38:54.200I mean, there's a there's they actually change people's skin color as part of which it's a weird.
00:38:59.540You see it. You're like, what is that?
00:39:01.380But anyway, yeah. Whole other. Otherwise, I love Taiwan.
00:39:03.880Great place. But that was a little off putting. But so tell me criminal injustice.
00:39:08.780OK, so we've you are we are somebody that I go to when I'm like, hey, what's really going on with the crime scenario in this city or that city?
00:39:16.180What policies are working? What's not working? I mean, is the top line here? Basically, the entire Democrat BLM leftist movement has just been wrong about everything, made everything worse for everybody and particularly made minorities suffer more like what? What is what here? Yes, yes. And yes. I mean, you know, the BLM movement has been one of the most toxic and most dangerous movements for black America in the United States over the last several years. I mean, really starting in 2013, 2014, when that movement really kind of took off. What did they drive? They drove policies like decarceration, depolicing, bail reforms.
00:39:46.180um, you know, raise the age reforms, which kind of raised the age, the, the, the age at which
00:39:51.120people can be held criminally responsible. So you can't prosecute 16 and 17 year olds in New York
00:39:55.460city anymore. Uh, essentially, right. You have to run them through family court. And that means
00:39:59.720that they almost always get out. So you have all of these things that they did that essentially
00:40:02.780all went in one direction, which is they raise the transaction costs of enforcing the law and
00:40:08.300they lower the transaction costs of breaking the law. Um, when that happens, things go bad,
00:40:13.600You get more crime. And what I think is interesting about the moment that we're in right now is that everyone's making all of this hay about the fact that crime is, you know, going down, that homicides are going to reach their near low for however many years.
00:40:28.900What's interesting is that for the last couple of years, especially, we have walked away from all of the reformist impulses that the BLM movement pushed.
00:40:36.940So we're seeing police around the country reassert themselves. We are seeing the incarceration rate go up. The prison population is going up for the first time in over a decade for the last two years. So I think we learned some lessons from that really toxic experiment.
00:40:52.200But the one thing that I think don't think people appreciate enough is that the people who paid the highest price for the excesses of BLM were black Americans who saw the I think they bore almost 95 percent of the homicide spike in 2020 and 21.
00:41:06.960Yeah, I think that that was actually part of the Rudy Giuliani New York City miracle being so far reaching and so widely appreciated was that people did see, based on the data, that there were thousands over the course of his tenure as mayor, you know, the entirety of it, if you add it up.
00:41:24.460thousands of overwhelmingly black and some latino new york city residents who are alive walking
00:41:31.180around and enjoying themselves day to day who would not have been there were it not for the
00:41:36.180change in crime trajectory that affected those communities so dramatically 100 there's a study
00:41:41.720that i cite in the book um patrick shark he was one of the authors and i couldn't disagree with
00:41:46.280that guy more on policy by the way um but it's an interesting study what they did was they looked
00:41:50.400at the homicide decline between 1990 and 2014 and they looked at the effect of that decline
00:41:56.080on life expectancy by different racial groups that decline added about 0.14 years of life
00:42:02.900expectancy to the average white man's life it added a full year of life expectancy to the average
00:42:08.500black man's life and the reason that i brought that up in the book is it poses a very simple
00:42:12.400question which is if the blm movement is right and the criminal justice system is racist and
00:42:17.480policing is racist and aggressive prosecution is racist and high incarceration rates are racist
00:42:22.220all of the things that contributed to that decline by the way why on earth with the system that's
00:42:26.760allegedly racist toward black men in particular so disproportionately almost exclusively benefit
00:42:32.320that same group when it achieves its stated ends ask any police chief in the country what are you
00:42:37.320going after i want to control crime ask any law and order prosecutor why are the evil racist cops
00:42:41.760saving so many black lives by actually policing communities yeah every single time a cop gets out
00:42:47.360of a car and chases a bad guy down a dark alley who might or may not have a gun they're subordinating
00:42:52.500their own safety to who to the communities that they serve it's not rich white communities that
00:42:58.080have a problem with these mass gunmen they are putting their lives on the line for precisely
00:43:02.460the communities that we're all supposed to believe that they hate so i mean i could ask you questions
00:43:06.560for hours i kind of do i text him randomly he's one of these people i'm like explain this explain
00:43:10.900he's like i'm trying to sleep with my family i'm like tell me what's going on with crime in
00:43:15.200philadelphia these days and i appreciate that you're very uh very quick on the draw with giving
00:43:19.360me uh your best analysis on some of this stuff but um so i've got one of those moments though
00:43:23.600you look at el salvador yeah incredible i mean incredible miraculous level turn around it
00:43:28.820how is it that any criminologist anyone who operates in your world of like let's look at
00:43:32.820the facts and figures and come up with what actually works what is their response to hey
00:43:37.480if you actually just lock lock up the bad people everyone is safer yeah no they'll ignore it they'll
00:43:41.820say, well, they'll either ignore it or they'll lean into, you know, the kind of due process
00:49:43.300I think this is the biggest threat to our nation.
00:49:46.560People will smile when I say that, but the smart people are going to say, you know, he's probably right.
00:49:51.540It's basically introducing communism into the United States of America.
00:49:55.900There's never been anything so dangerous.
00:49:58.440Never been something so dangerous as communism to the United States.
00:50:04.780You know, I am pretty amazed at how often when I have this conversation, I do like to sit around and just talk about history and things like that with people.