BONUS： Daily Review with Clay and Buck - Nov 13 2025
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 4 minutes
Words per minute
170.51447
Harmful content
Misogyny
12
sentences flagged
Toxicity
9
sentences flagged
Hate speech
23
sentences flagged
Summary
After 43 days, the government is now back up and running after a deal was struck between President Trump and the House of Representatives to end the government shutdown. On this episode of the Gimlet Daily Show with Chauncey Woods, host Jake Tapper talks about the deal and what it means for the future of the government.
Transcript
00:00:06.200
Appreciate all of you as we roll through the Thursday edition of the program.
00:00:14.640
Last night, President Trump at 1024 p.m. Eastern officially signed the bill put on his desk
00:00:27.040
And let's go ahead and take you into that evening event.
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If you missed it, as many of you may have already been in bed or you may not have been paying
00:00:36.340
attention, here is what Trump said last night sitting at the Resolute desk in the Oval Office
00:00:42.220
as he officially began the process of opening the government by signing the bill cut three.
00:00:49.860
I just want to tell you the country has never been in better shape.
00:00:53.120
We went through this short-term disaster with the Democrats because they thought it would
00:00:59.820
And it's an honor now to sign this incredible bill and get our country working again.
00:01:18.900
For the past 43 days, Democrats in Congress shut down the government of the United States
00:01:24.120
in an attempt to extort American taxpayers for hundreds of billions of dollars for illegal
00:01:29.600
aliens and people that came into our country illegally from gangs, from prisons, from mental
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00:01:36.120
They wanted to pay them $1.5 trillion, which would have really hurt our health care businesses
00:01:42.340
and our recipients at levels never seen before.
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Today, we're sending a clear message that we will never give in to extortion, because
00:01:56.180
So, I think the number one question most people have, including myself, and I'm curious how
00:02:01.300
you would break this down in terms of the likelihood is what is going to come next, Buck, is I'm glad
00:02:11.840
They seem to have made this choice, despite the fact that there was no benefit to them
00:02:20.660
Maybe multiple times in 2026 as we come up on the midterm elections.
00:02:25.820
That's question one for you, Buck, and I think for everybody out there, too.
00:02:29.160
And the second part here, I don't understand why we can't modify the filibuster in this particular
00:02:37.580
fashion, where we don't allow the minority party to shut down the government just over
00:02:47.120
My concern is, yes, Democrats have recognized after 43 days, hey, we didn't gain anything.
00:02:55.020
But they may still believe that they gain politically.
00:02:58.600
So, my concern is, why would they not do this potentially multiple times in the upcoming
00:03:06.080
Well, I think that the midterm is going to be something of...
00:03:12.360
First of all, what does a referendum really mean?
00:03:16.260
A lot of people don't know how much of a referendum it would be.
00:03:19.800
But I think the midterms will factor into the assessment of whether this kind of tactic
00:03:26.520
is effective or not, because a lot of the narrative is going to be built off of this,
00:03:30.860
There's going to be a lot of posturing about how we fought, we stood up to Trump, and
00:03:36.000
I think they'll see this as an opening to talk about health care.
00:03:39.580
The problem Democrats have, and this is getting really deep into it, and Clay, this feels like
00:03:45.480
something that has been building for a long time, because, again, I started talking about
00:03:53.860
It was the Tea Party era, right around when Obamacare was the thing, right?
00:03:59.540
Obamacare was the big fight in this country politically.
00:04:08.160
And they managed to, with the obvious advantages they had in the media, and the whole apparatus
00:04:16.700
around Obama himself, and the worship and everything, they managed to both roll out the goodies,
00:04:23.580
oh, you can be on your parents' plan, oh, we're going to expand coverage, oh, we're going
00:04:27.980
to make mental health and physical health, give it parity and all this, all these things
00:04:31.440
that people go, oh, well, that sounds kind of good, with this promise of, you're going
00:04:35.780
to keep your doctor, it's going to bring down costs, it's going to make the health care
00:04:38.760
system more efficient, all of that is a total failure.
00:04:43.060
In fact, it's worse than a failure because it went in the other direction.
00:04:46.780
It made, you know, it's one thing to not achieve your goal, it's another thing to make
00:04:50.780
If I was giving somebody, you know, special diet cookies, and they didn't lose weight,
00:04:58.280
That's what the Obamacare bill has actually done.
00:05:01.140
And I think that health care is going to be a big part of what the midterms, because
00:05:09.220
You're going to hear that word affordability, I might add, ad nauseum.
00:05:13.700
We're all going to get sick of talking about it.
00:05:16.640
This is the new version of kitchen table economic issues.
00:05:20.540
So, Clay, about the shutdown, I think it's the beginning phase of Democrats trying to convince
00:05:26.740
the American people, enough of them that they can regain power.
00:05:30.080
Remember, they're not trying to convince you, me, or this audience, but they're trying
00:05:33.880
to regain power through convincing enough Americans that they stand against, they stand
00:05:40.900
No matter what that means, we stand against Trump.
00:05:44.260
And point two, we're going to make your lifestyle more affordable somehow.
00:05:51.240
I think that's going to be the whole, the whole thing.
00:05:53.680
They don't want to say we're going to kick open the borders and let criminals run wild
00:06:02.480
But I still think they're going to do it again.
00:06:05.140
And so if you're out there and you're saying, what are the consequences for Democrats doing
00:06:14.720
Chuck Schumer is under siege, but I don't know that they actually lost anything.
00:06:19.820
And if anything, I think there's an incentive to try this again, which is why I would solve
00:06:28.300
And I'm saying this on behalf of Republicans who may be the minority party again, almost
00:06:34.000
certainly at some point in the next decade, Republicans won't have control of the Senate.
00:06:39.380
Why in the world would we not put in place procedures to stop this from happening?
00:06:47.440
Because leave aside the temper tantrum aspect of it.
00:06:53.540
I know you talked about this, an air traffic control error that led to the deadliest plane
00:06:59.480
If I remember, was it in Brazil you were talking about, Buck, where 500 people died when two
00:07:07.800
My concern is we created a situation where that could happen in the United States when
00:07:15.220
all the air traffic control guys and gals are not getting paid what they should have
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00:07:22.020
And we started to have to restrict the amount of flow of airplanes all over the country.
00:07:33.680
That's the area, I would argue, of our federal government that is most important, given the
00:07:42.180
In fact, I know you're a big fan of this show, too.
00:07:45.400
You remember one of the seasons of Breaking Bad actually opens with an air traffic controller
00:07:49.980
losing track of what's going on and allowing two planes to collide in the air?
00:07:55.880
For those of you out there that are also big Breaking Bad fans.
00:07:59.120
But I don't understand why we have allowed this process to occur and why we would continue
00:08:07.900
To me, if we modified the filibuster when it comes to Supreme Court appointments, then why
00:08:14.160
in the world would we not modify the filibuster to stop the minority party from effectively throwing
00:08:19.760
a temper tantrum and shutting down the government like this?
00:08:23.660
That, to me, seems like an easy resolution going forward.
00:08:26.980
There was a lot of talk from Trump about getting rid of the filibuster.
00:08:33.640
I think getting rid of the whole filibuster buck is a step too far, but this, to me, would
00:08:40.460
This is what I was going to say, is that this is the halfway measure.
00:08:44.220
Well, on this one, we are going to change the rule.
00:08:48.840
Now, to be fair and to be clear, Harry Reid did something of a halfway measure with the
00:08:55.600
It was for federal judges, but not for Supreme Court.
00:08:58.240
And then when we were in the majority, we were like, you know what?
00:09:02.880
So there's something of an arms race that occurs within the Senate procedural rules that
00:09:11.500
But if you want Trump to be able to have a functional government and not just allow Democrats
00:09:17.620
to throw tantrums like this, then I think it makes a lot of sense to do.
00:09:24.480
We just have to understand that there will be a cost.
00:09:27.360
There will be a consequence on the other side at some point.
00:09:30.120
I do think there's understanding already, Clay, among Republicans and among the Trump faithful,
00:09:40.480
You know, the triumphalism of the first six months, because it felt like such a sound
00:09:47.520
and resounding defeat of Kamala and the forces of evil, also known as Democrats, that has
00:09:55.820
given way a little bit to, oh, wow, they can still make people like Spamburger win in Virginia.
00:10:02.760
Kamala was closer than we think, as awful as she was.
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00:10:05.900
And that's what I always like to remind people of.
00:10:11.100
I know the shenanigans, but they did win with a dementia patient and Joe Biden.
00:10:15.700
So there's a lot of Democrats out there, everybody, and a very powerful machinery around them.
00:10:20.100
So we need to be prepared, not just for this midterm, but get ready for what things are going to look like
00:10:26.580
All right, you want to set up this conversation.
00:10:29.500
Let's go ahead, because we talked about it yesterday, the H-1B visas.
00:10:37.080
In fact, I'll open up the phone lines on this, 800-282-2882.
00:10:41.580
For people who have used H-1B visas before, business owners, management,
00:10:48.400
I would be interested in hearing your experience.
00:10:52.160
I candidly have not ever, as a business owner, been involved in anything involving these visas.
00:10:59.700
But there was a significant discussion between Laura Ingram, who is very opposed to these,
00:11:07.700
and President Trump, who in general has been in favor of them.
00:11:11.280
And you mentioned yesterday, Buck, that this kind of blew up.
00:11:15.280
It was during Christmas break, if I remember correctly, Vivek Ramaswamy
00:11:19.280
stepped into the H-1B visa discussion on social media, and he hasn't even been that active.
00:11:26.720
Vivek hasn't on social media by and large since.
00:11:29.960
Look, you know, I've talked to Vivek a little bit in the past.
00:11:36.180
I was very skeptical of his run, because to me it felt like it was just for attention.
00:11:43.740
But I liked a lot of what he said, and I think a lot of what he said was in earnest.
00:11:49.000
That tweet was one of the worst self-destructive tweets I've ever seen a Republican politician put out in my life.
00:11:55.040
Because it really was like a swipe at America, and it felt like it was something he really believed.
00:12:04.800
And by the way, you know his opponent, the Democrat opponent in Ohio,
00:12:08.820
what do you think the first thing that she's attacking him with already on that?
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00:12:14.040
I do think America doesn't have a culture of excellence.
00:12:17.640
Where do they have a culture of excellence, Vivek?
00:12:24.880
I mean, not as bad as writing a memoir about shooting your dog, but bad.
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00:12:30.320
We will, the positive is Vivek appears to be on track to win Ohio comfortably, which would be important.
00:12:40.820
But when we come back, I want to hear, phone lines are open, 800-282-2882.
00:12:46.180
I'm not wanting your opinion on this if you haven't interacted or used these.
00:12:50.920
I want people out there in our audience who have used the H-1B visas.
00:12:58.640
We'll talk about it some during the course of this hour.
00:13:02.080
We also are going to be joined by our friend Bill O'Reilly at the top of the next hour.
00:13:12.660
We'll have to tell him that Gavin Newsom has no political future in the Democrat Party, basically, as the president.
00:13:18.300
You know, we may tag team Uncle Bill on this one, Clay, but just remember, he's got old man strength.
00:13:27.600
I think I'm starting to have some old man strength, too.
00:13:29.220
What is it about you reaching age and the grip strength that you have is, like, terrifying?
00:13:35.440
Well, I think it's just, it's like when people used to say that somebody was farm strong.
00:13:40.040
It's like you have lived a life where you, if you are physically active, it's carrying around kids.
00:13:47.540
It's just all of the non-gym-related musculature it adds up to.
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00:13:54.480
Like, I don't think Uncle Bill would be great at deadlifting, but I think he could probably crack a billiard ball in his left hand, like, no problem.
00:14:16.100
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00:14:19.460
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00:16:03.160
Second hour of Clay and Buck kicks off right now.
00:16:21.360
I'm sure, Bill, there's a whole chapter on people who chew with their mouths open.
00:16:35.200
Let's get into the shutdown right away, shall we?
00:16:39.440
I mean, give us your sense as to what the Democrats think they got out of this
00:16:46.140
and what they really got out of this and how they're going to go forward now that a lot of people, I think, saw this not the way that they had intended.
00:16:54.820
Well, they won a partial victory last week when New Jersey went Democrat in the gubernatorial race when it was supposed to be considered very tight.
00:17:07.880
People were angry about the government shutdown.
00:17:10.080
Whenever the American public is angry, they vote against the incumbents.
00:17:14.420
That's all the way back to John Adams, and it's always been that way.
00:17:18.460
But the genesis of this is that the Democratic Party was getting beaten so badly by President Trump that it had to make a stand somewhere, sometime.
00:17:30.480
And the people who run the party, which are far-left progressive consultants, not senators or congresspeople,
00:17:40.660
the party that's being run is an article in the Wall Street Journal editorial page, a very good article about money people calling the shots in the Democratic Party.
00:17:49.940
Well, they decided, look, the Republicans' weakness is they don't have a health care plan to bring down costs.
00:17:57.200
So we all insist that the temporary Obamacare spending, which rose and was supposed to come back down after the pandemic subsided, be made permanent.
00:18:12.120
And the Democrats who fostered that knew that Trump and the Republicans would never agree, never, to more spending in a chaotic program.
00:18:25.000
So they knew that the government was going to shut down.
00:18:29.160
Now, they thought that they might be able to wait it out.
00:18:33.820
But when eight Democrats defected, it was over.
00:18:38.120
So 43 days, millions of Americans hurt for nothing.
00:18:46.480
Bill, it seems quite clear that Democrats recognize that they misplayed this, that they have created a mess for themselves.
00:18:57.760
And so they decided, hey, the government's opening back up.
00:19:03.180
Let's throw out this Epstein story all over again.
00:19:07.220
You've known, and Buck and I talked about that yesterday and said, hey, this is a clear attempt to try to avoid attention being placed upon their incompetence.
00:19:21.980
As we look ahead to 2026, shouldn't we be concerned that they're just going to shut down the government again and again?
00:19:30.440
That seems to me to be the most likely outcome because they don't really have any game plan, but they just want to be reflexively anti-Trump.
00:19:42.420
Do you support adjusting the filibuster here to stop the government from being able to be shut down until 60 senators, which requires, you know, eight, seven, eight Democrats actually come to their senses?
00:19:59.900
So number one, it's obvious the Democrats threw this Epstein stuff out to deflect from the embarrassment of losing the shutdown.
00:20:13.760
Number two, no, I wouldn't mess around with the filibuster at all because then you're going to create a monster that is going to come back and do some serious damage.
00:20:24.280
You can't be changing the filibuster rules every two years.
00:20:28.540
Number three, the way to do this is for a new law.
00:20:32.920
And the Republicans have enough votes in both the House and Senate to pass it.
00:20:37.420
It says you get one shot at an adjustment of spending during a fiscal year.
00:20:44.640
So we have a January date coming up where this might happen all over again.
00:20:52.400
But I suspect it won't because Democrats now are becoming the party of mean, the mean party.
00:21:04.140
And while a lot of Americans aren't smart enough to understand what's going on and don't really care, most do.
00:21:11.660
And so if the Democrats try the same stunt in January, there's going to be a lot of anger.
00:21:17.920
And then you're only talking about nine months until the midterms.
00:21:24.380
So the Democrats have got to be very careful here.
00:21:26.600
But the way to stop it now is to pass a new law.
00:21:30.680
You get one shot on a continuing funding basis of fiscal year.
00:21:37.800
I mean, they've got to figure out something to stream on this.
00:21:39.800
We're talking to Bill O'Reilly confronting evil, his latest massive bestseller.
00:21:49.900
I think Clay saw some of the clips you on on Bill Maher.
00:21:53.900
That's that's always a it's a good show when they have somebody who doesn't just agree with all the communist lunacy out in California.
00:22:02.740
One thing, though, where Clay and I both wanted to we wanted to press you on this one a little bit.
00:22:06.920
You said something about how you don't think Gavin Newsom has a shot at the national level for the Democrats.
00:22:13.980
Expand upon this one, because we were both we were both thinking that that's look, I'll just say it.
00:22:19.120
We both have said we think it's going to be him at the top of the ticket.
00:22:24.520
Because his record is so abysmal in California, it'd be very easy for the Republicans to just take him apart.
00:22:37.180
And just yesterday, his chief of staff was indicted on corruption.
00:22:41.460
I mean, you start to look at this guy, Newsom, you're going to find a thousand things that are going to weigh him down.
00:22:48.820
And I'm not sure the Democratic Party wants to go with a candidate who's going to be on the defensive every single day.
00:22:56.660
So I would say that a guy like Wes Moore, he's not as defined.
00:23:04.380
And he's a patriot, you know, a military guy, has done a decent job trying to combat crime in Baltimore.
00:23:13.200
I'd say he has a much better chance because he doesn't have that baggage.
00:23:26.240
But when you lose a million citizens, that's how many have left California under Newsom.
00:23:46.900
Unfortunately, I think Democrats don't care about results.
00:23:50.960
And he's the most strident in his attention gathering.
00:23:57.640
They care about winning the next election, the presidential.
00:24:03.100
So if you're going to put up a Kamala Harris, all right, and she can't articulate anything, which is what the case was, has not one solution to any problem.
00:24:17.480
Another guy from California whose record is disastrous, you're going to lose.
00:24:25.900
I don't think the three of us have gone out to dinner together.
00:24:28.640
It's a little bit unfair because, you know, Buck and I get to pay half and half.
00:24:37.900
We're giving you the field, which actually is a great deal for you.
00:24:43.900
Buck and I say right now, Gavin Newsom will be the nominee in 28.
00:24:51.300
Would it actually be two stakes for you over this situation?
00:24:55.760
Sure, but not because I'm that confident I'll win, because it's going to be a totally different country in three years.
00:25:03.240
It's going to be a totally different country in one year.
00:25:06.200
That's why the election last week isn't going to have any direct bearing on the midterms next year.
00:25:19.120
Because, Buck and I, I think one of the big stories that is still not getting enough attention is AI and how quickly it's going to change everything in this country.
00:25:27.000
Buck and I have been talking about it a lot on this program.
00:25:29.840
Are you of the opinion that AI is going to be transformative in many ways in terms of jobs, in terms of individual life?
00:25:40.100
The AI approach, because it's not quite here yet, is going to alter the media above all else.
00:25:52.080
Because on social media, where you can't track these people down, can't hold them accountable in court of law, you're going to have fake videos 24-7.
00:26:04.300
But there's a congresswoman who accused Trump yesterday.
00:26:10.740
I know it's because I'm going to do it on the No Spin News tonight on BillOReilly.com.
00:26:16.920
She accused, and I'll just read you the quote, Melanie Stansberry from New Mexico.
00:26:24.340
She says, I'd like to say to the American people, believe your eyes.
00:26:29.500
We have all seen photographs of Donald Trump with underage girls sitting on his lap.
00:26:39.600
There are no photographs of Donald Trump with any girl on his lap.
00:26:50.960
Now, this congressperson from New Mexico is lying to the American people.
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00:26:58.240
Now, I don't know whether she is just stupid or venal or what, based upon some AI fake image that she saw.
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00:27:09.540
So multiply that by 10,000, because that's what's going to happen.
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00:27:21.520
And also, how do you hold someone legally responsible, let's say, for defamation, Bill, if they say, well, I saw this news site, shared this photo, and it looked real?
00:27:31.660
Because especially for a public figure, as you know, the standard has to be malice, has to be false.
00:27:37.420
Tough to prove malice if someone's actually looking at a photo that looks like a real photo, right?
00:27:42.100
I just think it complicates matters tremendously.
00:27:44.320
It makes it harder, but I think if Trump wanted to sue Stansbury, he would win.
00:27:50.760
Because their statements about Trump are malicious.
00:27:53.980
So you can bring in a whole bunch of other stuff.
00:27:57.220
And it's the responsibility of any person trafficking in the public arena to make sure what they're saying is accurate.
00:28:12.900
Insinuating, you know, some kind of sexual, you know, violation, you know, violation of laws.
00:28:29.280
And if somebody does to me, I'll go after them.
00:28:33.960
I think you're hitting on something that's so incredibly important because it's going to become virtually impossible to distinguish between photos, videos, what is real and fake.
00:28:45.780
And honestly, people are going to believe whatever they want to believe.
00:28:51.260
So there is going to be no ability to really kind of rein this in.
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But, you know, there was that photo after the Louvre heist.
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00:29:00.580
You know, this is much less serious than the Trump thing.
00:29:02.760
But after the Louvre heist, there was the photo of the detective who looked like he was dressing up as like a French detective from, you know, like the 1950s.
00:29:16.460
It was actually a real photo, apparently, but the guy had nothing to do with the cops.
00:29:21.340
But by the time that photo had made it around everywhere, nobody knew what was reality.
00:29:25.200
Everyone thought this guy was the lead detective on the Louvre case.
00:29:31.160
There was a picture of me, Waters, Beck, and Carlson at the White House.
00:29:49.600
Do you know what the number one response is going to be?
00:29:54.480
We're not going to have any idea what is real and what is fake.
00:29:57.720
Because if something's out there that you don't like, you're just going to be like, ah, that's totally made up.
00:30:03.200
And if it's really fake, you're going to say, wait, that's fake.
00:30:05.900
And none of us are going to have any idea what's real and fake.
00:30:08.280
Well, that's why Congress has to pass new laws, new defamation, libel, and slander laws.
00:30:16.280
And they have to pass them pretty quickly to make it easier for people to sue.
00:30:21.980
But that's my point, Bill, is people are going to hide behind a bad faith, oh, I was acting in good faith standard unless we change these laws because of AI.
00:30:31.340
They're going to say, I'm just going on what was a, you know, so you're right, we've got to change this.
00:30:37.580
And to your point, Buck, it's going to be hosted websites that are in foreign countries that are hard to be able to track down because they're going to be a lot of the sourcing, right?
00:30:51.080
Yeah, they'll outsource them to the South Asian people.
00:30:54.720
But we should have the British system anyway, and the burden of defamation should be lowered here because the charlatans are running wild.
00:31:08.960
And it's going to make it even harder for decent people not to get framed and extorted.
00:31:18.520
And that's why Congress has got to get involved.
00:31:20.800
Look, I think you're – thanks for the time, Bill, and we encourage everybody to go check out Bill's newest book.
00:31:27.220
I think the Times v. Sullivan standard, and I've said this for a long time, is going to have to be readdressed.
00:31:34.140
That's a 1960s, early 60s civil rights era precedent.
00:31:38.700
It doesn't really play in the modern era very effectively.
00:31:43.360
Bill, we appreciate the time, and we'll get you on again soon.
00:31:52.940
He's got a lot of great stuff there in addition to one of the best-selling nonfiction book series of all time.
00:31:57.960
When we first met up with the team at the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews,
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they were understandably focused on helping tens of thousands of Israeli citizens displaced and affected by the war.
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Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:33:30.600
I want to get back into H-1B discussion because we've got all lines lit about this.
00:33:34.080
We want to have Uncle Bill on to give us the general political rundown of what's happening right now.
00:33:43.280
I said, look, what Trump said when he said we don't have the talent here, he didn't mean that.
00:33:52.980
He meant that for specific things, which is why we have an H-1B program, there are times when we actually do need to bring in.
00:34:00.880
And by the way, there are countries like South Korea, Taiwan, there are specific instances where there is a skill set.
00:34:08.720
I brought up TSMC, one of the most valuable companies in the world.
00:34:11.860
We cannot run that fab without Taiwanese assistance, even the one in Arizona.
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00:34:25.020
He said, look, what Trump was really saying is what Buck just said to you.
00:34:30.500
The president's point here is, again, we can't snap our fingers and say, you're going to learn how to build ships overnight.
00:34:37.140
We want to bring semiconductor industry back to the U.S.
00:34:41.240
There are going to be big facilities in Arizona.
00:34:44.060
So I think the president's vision here is to bring in overseas workers where these jobs went.
00:34:53.200
Three, five, seven years to train the U.S. workers.
00:35:01.220
So do you understand the concern that people have?
00:35:10.560
Because we haven't built ships in the U.S. for years.
00:35:15.220
So this idea of overseas partners coming in, teaching American workers, then returning home, that's a home run.
0.99
00:35:28.980
Yeah, that's what the H-1B program is supposed to be.
00:35:32.900
It's not supposed to be low-level coding where you get to pay someone, Clay, from India 30% less than you'd pay an American that you could find to do the job.
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00:35:42.900
Not only pay them less, basically have them handcuffed because their ability to stay in the country is entirely reliant on them being productive workers for you, right?
00:35:53.160
This is why people start to say it's a little bit like a modern indentured servitude.
00:35:58.060
And then they say, well, then why were they willing to do it?
00:35:59.920
Well, one, they make a lot more money here than they will in India, for example.
00:36:04.740
And two, as I said, there's the whole incentive of, well, I get to bring my family here.
00:36:12.080
I get to then apply in America to try to stay with my – get a green card.
00:36:20.040
So we're going to try to move quickly through the various opinions here.
00:36:24.060
Geraldine in Southern California, a computer programmer.
00:36:32.780
I am a computer programmer, and you all just kind of covered the points that I made to producer Greg.
00:36:39.060
I used to work for a company that was multinational, and it was kind of a – it was past the initial startup phase,
00:36:45.900
but it was a pretty young company, and they were still trying to trade on their startup culture.
00:36:50.900
And a lot of the programmers I worked with were H-1B visa holders from India.
00:36:56.360
And I think – I couldn't prove it, but I'm pretty sure that they – and we never discussed it because that's tacky in spite of what kids these days think.
00:37:06.240
I've noticed it's a trend among millennials and Generation Z to discuss your salary.
00:37:12.640
Anyway, we never talked about it, but I'm pretty sure all of those programmers from India were making a lot less than the rest of us were.
1.00
00:37:19.080
And they were very good at their jobs, but not necessarily better than the rest of us who were American friends.
00:37:24.300
Sorry to cut you off, Gerilyn, but you feel like in your experience that they could have found American workers
00:37:31.040
who could have done the jobs that these H-1B workers were being hired to do.
00:37:36.260
Yes, I think they could have, and I think they would have had to pay them more.
00:37:39.860
And I think that my Indian coworkers were happy to accept less money because that meant they got to stay in America.
1.00
00:37:46.080
I think all the points you were just making are exactly correct.
00:37:57.700
You've run a business, and you've had, you say, dozens of H-1B employees.
00:38:02.600
First question for you, could you not have found Americans able to do those jobs?
00:38:08.200
Second question for you, what, if anything, do you think should be changed about the policy, or do you think it works well now?
00:38:18.300
First, let me just say that the H-1B program is abused in various places around the country, and particularly in the IT arena.
00:38:24.800
I will tell you that the dozens of H-1Bs that I managed, we hired them for one specific purpose,
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00:38:30.520
and that was because they were more productive than their equivalent American counterparts.
00:38:36.600
When you run a business, it's the bottom line that drives your business.
00:38:40.200
You've got to be productive, and if you've got foreign workers who are willing to work harder with more attention to detail
0.54
00:38:45.760
than their counterparts in America, then you're just drawn to have to hire them and keep them employed.
00:38:52.360
We always were on the search for hardworking American workers in the IT arena,
00:38:57.200
particularly in the data warehousing business intelligence arena,
00:38:59.880
but we just couldn't find the ones that could work at the same level, the same degree of attention to detail.
00:39:04.980
So your position is there was no fungible alternative for American workers?
00:39:11.620
You legitimately believe you couldn't have run your business without being able to hire these individuals?
00:39:17.620
We couldn't be as competitive as a business by hiring workers that were 50% less productive than their H-1B counterparts.
1.00
00:39:26.200
Where did you go to get your workers? Mostly India?
00:39:31.520
In fact, I still have maintained relationships with a lot of them.
00:39:34.980
One other thing that's been missing in all of this, when you're looking at a merit-based immigration program,
00:39:39.540
there's no better kickstart for that than the H-1B program because a good percentage of those do become American citizens over time,
00:39:46.960
and they add so much value to our employment sector.
00:39:52.940
David in Raleigh, you say you have been an engineering manager.
00:39:57.920
I think that's what that says, for 15 years and worked with a lot of H-1B employees.
00:40:04.480
Yeah, I believe that for the most part, Laura's right.
00:40:08.080
We're flooding the market with too many engineers, and it's clearly disrupting the supply chain of engineers.
00:40:15.960
If you look at when I came into the industry in the early 2000s, engineers aren't making that much more than,
00:40:22.500
adjusted for inflation, than we were back then.
00:40:25.280
But I think the bigger issue, like when Lutnick came out and said, hey, it's going to be $100,000 per year per H-1B,
00:40:31.980
a lot of us were excited because that would fix the issue to a large extent.
00:40:36.820
But what will happen is the companies are just going to offshore these jobs.
00:40:39.760
We're already setting up design houses in India.
00:40:42.920
Every big Fortune 500 company has a design house, essentially, under their umbrella in India right now.
00:40:52.420
And so we're watching these jobs just go straight to India.
00:40:58.000
Well, you know, part of this is also the upstream, downstream reality of when you have the consistent
00:41:05.080
and systematic undercutting of an American wage in a certain industry from, let's be honest,
00:41:11.860
in the case of India, the most populous country on Earth.
00:41:15.100
There are a lot of Indians, like $1.3 billion or something like that.
00:41:19.200
And when you have this going on, it's going to create deficiencies in the American sector.
00:41:25.900
Because, Clay, perfect example, when I got out of school, when you got out of school,
00:41:30.220
everybody in the top of my class at Amherst, unless you wanted to go save America at the CIA,
00:41:35.660
everybody in the top of my class, there were two job tracks for you.
00:41:42.360
Both of those, by the way, you could argue, where's the value add long?
00:41:47.880
You know, there's a lot of more detailed discussions.
00:41:50.420
You know, there's been a whole series TV shows made about management consulting and like how
00:41:58.460
That's one that's really being erased by AI because you can plug the large data sets in.
00:42:02.900
But those were two areas where in your 20s, you know, you could come out and you could start making.
00:42:10.480
20 years ago, you could make $200,000, $300,000 in your 20s pretty readily within a couple of years.
00:42:16.960
I mean, I think the starting salary at the investment banks, I got an offer from one at Citigroup,
00:42:23.460
And then with bonus, it could be up to $100,000, you know, if it was a good year.
00:42:27.720
But the point is, you went to be an engineer, you're making like $70,000 or $80,000.
00:42:33.580
Now, I know a lot of you are saying, well, that's a great job.
00:42:36.720
But if you had the grades to be a top engineering recruit, you also probably had the grades to
00:42:42.440
go work at McKinsey and tell people how to run their companies that you've never run before
00:42:48.620
So this is the, I'm just saying the incentives that have been set up because people were thinking,
00:42:54.040
oh, well, coding almost became, or, you know, a lot of these computer skills that we're hiring
00:43:01.720
And as long as you're in a back office situation, you're never going to really be writing your
00:43:10.980
We'll get to some of those calls when we come back.
00:43:13.600
I appreciate everybody reaching out and sharing what your perspectives on what is a challenging
00:43:19.520
We'll continue to break all that down going forward.
00:43:24.080
But in the meantime, Buck, I think you got something for us here.
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Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:45:09.720
Clay Travis, Buck Sexton Show, hour number three.
00:45:17.760
President Trump set to speak soon on affordability-related issues.
00:45:24.820
We have got a couple of different breaking news stories that I wanted to hit you guys with.
00:45:29.760
First of all, and it seems like this is kind of a significant story, Alina Haba, who is
00:45:36.140
the state attorney, I believe, for New Jersey, the U.S. attorney for New Jersey, I believe
00:45:44.400
According to Mary Margaret Olihan, who we have had on the program quite a bit, she is a Daily
00:45:52.020
There was an attack at the U.S. attorney's office, and a suspect entered the building
00:46:02.480
with a baseball bat around 5 p.m. yesterday, proceeded to Alina Haba's office.
00:46:10.420
Pam Bondi says, this is in the last hour or so, these details coming out, Attorney General,
00:46:16.820
Last night, an individual attempted to confront one of our U.S. attorneys, Haba, destroyed
00:46:30.360
So again, left-wing violence is certainly an issue, and we're glad that Alina Haba is okay,
00:46:38.160
but somebody showing up with a bat and attacking the office is something obviously very, very
00:46:45.140
Other news, John Fetterman's office put out this statement.
00:46:50.460
During an early morning walk, Senator Fetterman sustained a fall near his home in Braddock,
00:46:57.520
Out of an abundance of caution, he was transported to a hospital in Pittsburgh.
00:47:01.760
Upon evaluation, it was established he had a ventricular fibrillation flare-up that led
00:47:09.560
to him feeling lightheaded, falling to the ground, hitting his face with minor injuries.
00:47:19.840
Senator Fetterman had this to say, if you thought my face looked bad before, wait until
00:47:30.320
Again, he's doing well, receiving routine hospital observations, and they are adjusting
00:47:34.820
potentially his defibrillator in the way that I would imagine that that works inside of
00:47:45.600
Reminds me, Buck, that quote, if you thought my face to look bad before, wait until you see
00:47:51.820
One of the all-time great rejoinders from Abraham Lincoln, do you remember this quote?
00:47:57.080
He was accused of being two-faced, and his response was, do you think if I had two faces
00:48:05.240
Which, again, I'm paraphrasing, but a pretty witty comeback that reminded me of what John
00:48:14.560
Now, remember how we talked, Buck, about Michelle Obama every time she speaks, making herself
00:48:21.940
She is continuing to speak and drive down her overall likability every single time that
1.00
00:48:30.960
I thought we could have fun with this and play this cut.
00:48:34.300
Michelle Obama said, I've got a couple of cuts that are crazy, but Michelle Obama said,
00:48:40.040
black female beauty is so powerful, we are owed respect.
00:48:45.920
We have to start educating people about all kinds of beauty.
00:48:50.500
Um, and our beauty is so powerful and so unique, um, that it is, that it is worthy of the conversation
00:48:59.560
and it's worthy of demanding the respect that we're owed for who we are and what we offer
00:49:09.460
I mean, first of all, every man on the planet, trust me on this, is aware of beauty.
00:49:16.400
There's nobody out there who's like, hey, you know, I didn't know this woman was attractive,
00:49:19.900
but this is the toxic nature of identity politics where she's arguing basically because of my
00:49:30.080
And I just, I, I, you read her PhD or whatever the thesis that she wrote.
00:49:47.940
She was an attorney and he was an associate and they met at the firm, but he was older when
00:49:55.020
She, she at one point had a job at a public hospital in the state of Chicago, I'm sorry,
00:50:01.120
in the state of Illinois when her husband was a state legislator.
00:50:05.100
I think she was a diversity educator at the hospital making 300 something thousand dollars
00:50:11.060
So make like half a mil a year in today's dollars to be a diversity educator.
00:50:15.140
So at the University of Chicago, if I remember correctly, I think you are hitting that exactly
00:50:21.360
But yeah, basically a half a million dollars in today's dollars to essentially have a job
00:50:39.100
Also, uh, I pulled this clip cause I saw this circulating Democrats have decided buck that
00:50:46.780
their go-to talking point for this past campaign season, and maybe it's going to extend in the
00:50:51.920
next campaign season is that we need more, um, uh, grocery stores provided by the government.
00:51:00.640
We know that this was a big part of mom Donnie's pitch in New York city, but this is Katie Wilson
00:51:05.880
who ended up winning the, uh, mayor's race in Seattle.
00:51:11.520
This was a flashback to her campaign, but it is now circulating.
00:51:15.640
She says that they can't allow grocery stores to shut down in Seattle and that if it does
00:51:22.480
happen, then the government needs to step in and be the grocery store.
1.00
00:51:26.680
Can I just, can I just to clarify the point of clarity?
00:51:29.380
Michelle Obama worked at the university of Chicago medical center.
00:51:33.920
It was a hospital, but you know, it was the U Chicago hospital and she was executive director
00:51:43.180
So it's what she was working on a lot of diversity and recruitment is what I'm reading here.
0.50
00:51:47.360
She was a diversity educator, making a half mil a year basically.
00:51:53.700
Um, here is that Seattle new mayor, uh, basically echoing the same arguments that were made on the
00:52:03.380
What we really need is more government grocery stores, just like Cuba.
0.99
00:52:06.740
Access to affordable, healthy food is a basic, right?
00:52:11.640
We cannot allow giant grocery chains to stomp all over our communities, close stores at will
00:52:18.420
Together we can build a Seattle where fresh food is for everyone, not just for those who
00:52:25.740
Corporations create them when they abandon our communities.
00:52:28.280
As mayor, I'm excited to step up and with UFCW explore public option grocery stores to fill
00:52:36.080
I thought this was funny, Buck, because it directly connects with the conversation we had
00:52:40.600
during the snap debate, which is the argument that she is making about food deserts and availability
00:52:46.420
of food has been tested and it is just not true.
00:52:50.500
There is no, uh, lack of available food products that people in different communities want to buy.
00:52:58.940
And so this was a talking point, probably what 2010 ish.
00:53:03.260
And now it's just coming back, even though it's been soundly refuted.
00:53:07.160
And I do think the fact that government owned grocery stores, again, like Cuba, uh, is being
00:53:15.040
argued in favor of in both Seattle and New York city is, is interesting about the dearth of real
00:53:21.720
ideas, motivating the Democrat party right now.
00:53:25.220
Uh, they they've done this before, as I've said, um, this year, here you go.
00:53:31.480
I was pulling this up, giving the poor, this is from the New York times.
00:53:35.620
Everyone giving the poor, easy access to healthy food doesn't mean they'll buy it.
00:53:44.260
This is 2015 place a decade ago in 2010, the Bronx, uh, this Bronx section is what is
00:53:52.960
This Bronx community was a food desert, low income neighborhood in New York's least healthy
0.99
00:53:57.140
County, no nearby grocery store, few places where residents could easily buy fresh food.
00:54:02.940
The target of a city tax incentive program to bring healthy food into underserved neighborhoods,
00:54:08.480
a 17,000 square foot supermarket opened aided by city money paying for 40% of the cost neighborhood.
00:54:17.100
Welcome the addition, but the diets of the neighborhoods residents did not, they don't want to buy what
00:54:37.120
You sit there, you go, um, in unders or in low income communities, in low income communities,
00:54:43.580
if people have the choice, generally speaking, talking about broad buying habits, you don't
00:54:48.560
have to call me and say, I have a friend who's low income and he's running six triathlons.
00:54:54.420
Generally speaking in low income communities, when people have the opportunity to buy chips,
00:55:00.060
soda, candy, you know, frozen food that they can get a frozen pizza or whatever, or they
00:55:06.520
can buy arugula, free range, uh, lean, you know, chicken breasts or whatever, which one
00:55:14.800
There's a reason why they sell the food they sell in low income communities, because that's
1.00
00:55:20.620
Even when you subsidize, uh, so-called or not so-called it is, even when you subsidize
00:55:27.660
And so what, what are you going to do about this?
00:55:30.000
You know, you either let people make their own choices and eat garbage, basically not
00:55:37.000
Or you let people, uh, you know, you tell them that this is all, remember Clay, they,
00:55:42.360
they're worried about food deserts, but the snap program has to cover chips and soda.
00:55:53.140
I just, I, one of the, the biggest challenges of capitalism is young people who have all of
1.00
00:56:02.220
the benefits of living in a capitalistic society decide that capitalism doesn't work.
00:56:11.720
I feel like we've seen this with policing where people say, Oh, you know what?
00:56:16.920
Being concerned that you have too many violent predators behind bars is a luxury of a low crime
00:56:25.260
And so you have a low crime environment and people start saying, Hey, you know what?
00:56:28.860
We need fewer cops and we need fewer people in prisons and we need more lenient treatment
00:56:40.480
And it would be nice if we could just have public policy that acknowledges what works and
00:56:47.260
And how about we don't try the things that we know don't work?
00:56:53.380
I just, the profit margin on grocery stores, Buck, is one or 2%.
00:57:03.320
And this would, this would go to mom Donnie ism and everything as well.
00:57:06.600
We, we, we should run an experiment, go to one of these supposed, remember it's a food
00:57:11.860
It's also, uh, an area where we're going to be told people are oppressed and there's all
00:57:17.760
And I'm sure there's systemic racism involved and all this other stuff.
00:57:21.020
Go into that community, Clay, set up at just a, just let, let the grocery store that's
00:57:25.900
there or let the place where people get their food.
00:57:27.920
A lot of times it's more like a, in New York, I'm speaking about now, it's more like a
00:57:32.780
People go in and they'll have food there, but they don't want to have the big aisles like
00:57:36.440
they will in a, in a giant or a food town or a, uh, you know, whatever, A&P.
00:57:53.120
Anyway, they don't have something like that necessarily, but you could honestly, I think
00:57:56.960
offer in the, in these same communities, you could offer not just reduce.
00:58:00.600
You could say, okay, you can either buy the stuff that we deem unhealthy or, or we'll give
00:58:09.600
And I think that people would be shocked to see what the actual result of that experiment
00:58:14.740
I think that would be super intriguing as well.
00:58:23.080
Still a lot of people weighing in H1B, uh, discussion, impressed by the, uh, the quality
00:58:28.940
Uh, but I want to tell you, uh, what we are a little bit less than six weeks until Christmas,
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Welcome back in here to play and Buck, you know, we important thought that we just had
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also about the food situation there and the idea of government run grocery stores.
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There's a lot of lobbying that goes on by big agra and the big food companies to make sure
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that the things that the liberal elites who run these cities don't want the low income communities
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to be ingesting in those quantities are covered by things like food stamps, a.k.a.
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Obviously, they renamed it because food stamps after a while had picked up something of a
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But it's the same basic, same basic premise or it is the same premise.
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And I think that that's one aspect of this is that there's a big incentive, Clay, to make
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people or to encourage people to eat this stuff and for it to be subsidized by the government.
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And beyond that, I just think what experience with a government entity makes you think that
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you want the government in charge of stocking and getting the best quality for the dollar?
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I'm still ticked off about how bad the food was in my private high school.
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My high school should be ashamed at the food that they were making us eat.
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Like, I can't imagine what it's like in an actual prison or a state facility.
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Look, the efficiency required to be a profitable grocery store, to say nothing of the competition
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that must occur for cleanliness and lack of spoilage and all of those things.
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Remember the story that was out there about Kansas City?
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They said, hey, we need to have government run grocery stores.
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They couldn't get produce there in a healthy way, right?
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Which, Buck, if you told me, what do you expect a government run grocery store to look like?
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And I wish we had trips, like field trips, so kids could go to Cuba and actually see what
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the full fruition of a government system that they're supporting now in New York City is
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like, so that you could understand what it's like to not have air conditioning, Wi-Fi never
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works, government-owned grocery stores, where everybody stands in line for hours to be able
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Civilization is based upon individual incentive.
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Yes, there's always the group, the community that you need, but you need people to have
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their own individual reasons for doing what they're doing or they're not going to do it.
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This is why places like the Soviet Union collapse into a totalitarian nightmare, because there
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And so the only way they make you do what you're supposed to do is with a gun in the back of your
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If you want to have a society that functions efficiently and well, people have to benefit.
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Clay, I want a grocery store where the manager's making six figures.
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I want a grocery store where the people in charge take pride in what they do.
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Like, you know, it's very straightforward to me.
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You know where they take a lot of pride in what they do?
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