Verdict with Ted Cruz - BONUS： Daily Review with Clay and Buck - Nov 13 2025

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.420 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.880 Welcome in.

00:00:06.200 Appreciate all of you as we roll through the Thursday edition of the program.

00:00:11.860 Rejoice.

00:00:12.640 The government is back open.

00:00:14.640 Last night, President Trump at 1024 p.m. Eastern officially signed the bill put on his desk

00:00:22.160 from the House.

00:00:23.640 And we are now back up and running.

00:00:27.040 And let's go ahead and take you into that evening event.

00:00:32.100 If you missed it, as many of you may have already been in bed or you may not have been paying

00:00:36.340 attention, here is what Trump said last night sitting at the Resolute desk in the Oval Office

00:00:42.220 as he officially began the process of opening the government by signing the bill cut three.

00:00:49.860 I just want to tell you the country has never been in better shape.

00:00:53.120 We went through this short-term disaster with the Democrats because they thought it would

00:00:58.620 be good politically.

00:00:59.820 And it's an honor now to sign this incredible bill and get our country working again.

00:01:06.960 Thank you.

00:01:09.960 One more thing, Buck, he also said.

00:01:13.180 For 43 days, Democrats had no argument.

00:01:16.160 That argument has not changed.

00:01:17.920 This is Cut 4.

00:01:18.900 For the past 43 days, Democrats in Congress shut down the government of the United States

00:01:24.120 in an attempt to extort American taxpayers for hundreds of billions of dollars for illegal

00:01:29.600 aliens and people that came into our country illegally from gangs, from prisons, from mental 0.87

00:01:35.420 institutions.

00:01:36.120 They wanted to pay them $1.5 trillion, which would have really hurt our health care businesses

00:01:42.340 and our recipients at levels never seen before.

00:01:45.660 Today, we're sending a clear message that we will never give in to extortion, because

00:01:50.360 that's what it was.

00:01:51.320 They tried to extort.

00:01:52.500 The Democrats tried to extort our country.

00:01:55.420 Okay.

00:01:56.180 So, I think the number one question most people have, including myself, and I'm curious how

00:02:01.300 you would break this down in terms of the likelihood is what is going to come next, Buck, is I'm glad

00:02:07.820 that we are now back open.

00:02:09.560 The Democrats gained absolutely nothing.

00:02:11.840 They seem to have made this choice, despite the fact that there was no benefit to them

00:02:16.980 at all.

00:02:18.400 Why will they not just do this again?

00:02:20.660 Maybe multiple times in 2026 as we come up on the midterm elections.

00:02:25.820 That's question one for you, Buck, and I think for everybody out there, too.

00:02:29.160 And the second part here, I don't understand why we can't modify the filibuster in this particular

00:02:37.580 fashion, where we don't allow the minority party to shut down the government just over

00:02:44.080 having basically a tantrum.

00:02:47.120 My concern is, yes, Democrats have recognized after 43 days, hey, we didn't gain anything.

00:02:53.880 Trump's not going to bend.

00:02:55.020 But they may still believe that they gain politically.

00:02:58.600 So, my concern is, why would they not do this potentially multiple times in the upcoming

00:03:03.960 year with the election cycle?

00:03:06.080 Well, I think that the midterm is going to be something of...

00:03:09.780 People overuse the term referendum, right?

00:03:12.360 First of all, what does a referendum really mean?

00:03:16.260 A lot of people don't know how much of a referendum it would be.

00:03:19.800 But I think the midterms will factor into the assessment of whether this kind of tactic

00:03:26.520 is effective or not, because a lot of the narrative is going to be built off of this,

00:03:30.680 right?

00:03:30.860 There's going to be a lot of posturing about how we fought, we stood up to Trump, and

00:03:36.000 I think they'll see this as an opening to talk about health care.

00:03:39.580 The problem Democrats have, and this is getting really deep into it, and Clay, this feels like

00:03:45.480 something that has been building for a long time, because, again, I started talking about

00:03:51.880 politics for a living right around...

00:03:53.860 It was the Tea Party era, right around when Obamacare was the thing, right?

00:03:59.540 Obamacare was the big fight in this country politically.

00:04:04.200 It shows how far back we're going now.

00:04:06.920 We're talking 15 years.

00:04:08.160 And they managed to, with the obvious advantages they had in the media, and the whole apparatus

00:04:16.700 around Obama himself, and the worship and everything, they managed to both roll out the goodies,

00:04:23.580 oh, you can be on your parents' plan, oh, we're going to expand coverage, oh, we're going

00:04:27.980 to make mental health and physical health, give it parity and all this, all these things

00:04:31.440 that people go, oh, well, that sounds kind of good, with this promise of, you're going

00:04:35.780 to keep your doctor, it's going to bring down costs, it's going to make the health care

00:04:38.760 system more efficient, all of that is a total failure.

00:04:43.060 In fact, it's worse than a failure because it went in the other direction.

00:04:46.780 It made, you know, it's one thing to not achieve your goal, it's another thing to make

00:04:50.360 it worse.

00:04:50.780 If I was giving somebody, you know, special diet cookies, and they didn't lose weight,

00:04:55.500 that's bad.

00:04:56.120 If they gained 50 pounds, that's even worse.

00:04:58.280 That's what the Obamacare bill has actually done.

00:05:01.140 And I think that health care is going to be a big part of what the midterms, because

00:05:07.520 health care goes right into affordability.

00:05:09.220 You're going to hear that word affordability, I might add, ad nauseum.

00:05:12.360 You're all going to get sick of it.

00:05:13.700 We're all going to get sick of talking about it.

00:05:15.120 But it matters.

00:05:16.640 This is the new version of kitchen table economic issues.

00:05:20.540 So, Clay, about the shutdown, I think it's the beginning phase of Democrats trying to convince

00:05:26.740 the American people, enough of them that they can regain power.

00:05:30.080 Remember, they're not trying to convince you, me, or this audience, but they're trying

00:05:33.880 to regain power through convincing enough Americans that they stand against, they stand

00:05:39.420 against Trump.

00:05:40.060 That's point one.

00:05:40.900 No matter what that means, we stand against Trump.

00:05:43.280 Yes.

00:05:43.560 No kings.

00:05:44.260 And point two, we're going to make your lifestyle more affordable somehow.

00:05:51.240 I think that's going to be the whole, the whole thing.

00:05:53.680 They don't want to say we're going to kick open the borders and let criminals run wild

00:05:56.540 on the streets. 0.93

00:05:57.040 That was kind of a loser for them in 24.

00:05:58.580 That wasn't a good, that wasn't a good take.

00:06:02.480 But I still think they're going to do it again.

00:06:05.140 And so if you're out there and you're saying, what are the consequences for Democrats doing

00:06:11.260 this?

00:06:12.340 Yes, they have an internal civil war.

00:06:14.480 Yes.

00:06:14.720 Chuck Schumer is under siege, but I don't know that they actually lost anything.

00:06:19.820 And if anything, I think there's an incentive to try this again, which is why I would solve

00:06:27.860 this.

00:06:28.300 And I'm saying this on behalf of Republicans who may be the minority party again, almost

00:06:34.000 certainly at some point in the next decade, Republicans won't have control of the Senate.

00:06:39.380 Why in the world would we not put in place procedures to stop this from happening?

00:06:47.440 Because leave aside the temper tantrum aspect of it.

00:06:52.380 I'm concerned.

00:06:53.540 I know you talked about this, an air traffic control error that led to the deadliest plane

00:06:59.080 crash.

00:06:59.480 If I remember, was it in Brazil you were talking about, Buck, where 500 people died when two

00:07:05.120 planes collided?

00:07:07.800 My concern is we created a situation where that could happen in the United States when

00:07:15.220 all the air traffic control guys and gals are not getting paid what they should have 0.96

00:07:19.640 gotten paid.

00:07:20.360 They're not getting their paychecks.

00:07:22.020 And we started to have to restrict the amount of flow of airplanes all over the country.

00:07:27.680 And so many of you got caught up in the chaos.

00:07:31.260 We could have had a real disaster there.

00:07:33.680 That's the area, I would argue, of our federal government that is most important, given the

00:07:40.320 consequences of being wrong.

00:07:42.180 In fact, I know you're a big fan of this show, too.

00:07:45.400 You remember one of the seasons of Breaking Bad actually opens with an air traffic controller

00:07:49.980 losing track of what's going on and allowing two planes to collide in the air?

00:07:55.880 For those of you out there that are also big Breaking Bad fans.

00:07:59.120 But I don't understand why we have allowed this process to occur and why we would continue

00:08:06.420 to allow it to occur.

00:08:07.900 To me, if we modified the filibuster when it comes to Supreme Court appointments, then why

00:08:14.160 in the world would we not modify the filibuster to stop the minority party from effectively throwing

00:08:19.760 a temper tantrum and shutting down the government like this?

00:08:23.660 That, to me, seems like an easy resolution going forward.

00:08:26.980 There was a lot of talk from Trump about getting rid of the filibuster.

00:08:33.640 I think getting rid of the whole filibuster buck is a step too far, but this, to me, would

00:08:39.200 make sense.

00:08:40.460 This is what I was going to say, is that this is the halfway measure.

00:08:44.220 Well, on this one, we are going to change the rule.

00:08:48.840 Now, to be fair and to be clear, Harry Reid did something of a halfway measure with the

00:08:54.540 judges, too, right?

00:08:55.600 It was for federal judges, but not for Supreme Court.

00:08:58.240 And then when we were in the majority, we were like, you know what?

00:09:00.720 You're going to play that game.

00:09:01.700 We're going to play that game.

00:09:02.880 So there's something of an arms race that occurs within the Senate procedural rules that

00:09:10.240 we will be engaging in here.

00:09:11.500 But if you want Trump to be able to have a functional government and not just allow Democrats

00:09:17.620 to throw tantrums like this, then I think it makes a lot of sense to do.

00:09:24.480 We just have to understand that there will be a cost.

00:09:27.360 There will be a consequence on the other side at some point.

00:09:30.120 I do think there's understanding already, Clay, among Republicans and among the Trump faithful,

00:09:36.080 among all the Trump voters out there.

00:09:38.540 Democrats will be back in power at some point.

00:09:40.480 You know, the triumphalism of the first six months, because it felt like such a sound

00:09:47.520 and resounding defeat of Kamala and the forces of evil, also known as Democrats, that has

00:09:55.820 given way a little bit to, oh, wow, they can still make people like Spamburger win in Virginia.

00:10:02.760 Kamala was closer than we think, as awful as she was. 1.00

00:10:05.900 And that's what I always like to remind people of.

00:10:07.560 They almost won with Kamala, and they did win.

00:10:11.100 I know the shenanigans, but they did win with a dementia patient and Joe Biden.

00:10:15.700 So there's a lot of Democrats out there, everybody, and a very powerful machinery around them.

00:10:20.100 So we need to be prepared, not just for this midterm, but get ready for what things are going to look like

00:10:25.060 if and when they take power again.

00:10:26.580 All right, you want to set up this conversation.

00:10:29.500 Let's go ahead, because we talked about it yesterday, the H-1B visas.

00:10:34.260 And some of you may have strong opinions.

00:10:37.080 In fact, I'll open up the phone lines on this, 800-282-2882.

00:10:41.580 For people who have used H-1B visas before, business owners, management,

00:10:48.400 I would be interested in hearing your experience.

00:10:52.160 I candidly have not ever, as a business owner, been involved in anything involving these visas.

00:10:59.700 But there was a significant discussion between Laura Ingram, who is very opposed to these,

00:11:07.700 and President Trump, who in general has been in favor of them.

00:11:11.280 And you mentioned yesterday, Buck, that this kind of blew up.

00:11:15.280 It was during Christmas break, if I remember correctly, Vivek Ramaswamy

00:11:19.280 stepped into the H-1B visa discussion on social media, and he hasn't even been that active.

00:11:26.720 Vivek hasn't on social media by and large since.

00:11:29.960 Look, you know, I've talked to Vivek a little bit in the past.

00:11:36.180 I was very skeptical of his run, because to me it felt like it was just for attention.

00:11:41.280 And it was successful in that regard.

00:11:43.740 But I liked a lot of what he said, and I think a lot of what he said was in earnest.

00:11:49.000 That tweet was one of the worst self-destructive tweets I've ever seen a Republican politician put out in my life.

00:11:55.040 Because it really was like a swipe at America, and it felt like it was something he really believed.

00:12:02.360 And that is not good.

00:12:04.800 And by the way, you know his opponent, the Democrat opponent in Ohio,

00:12:08.820 what do you think the first thing that she's attacking him with already on that? 0.97

00:12:14.040 I do think America doesn't have a culture of excellence.

00:12:17.640 Where do they have a culture of excellence, Vivek?

00:12:20.240 Explain that one to us.

00:12:21.800 Clay, one of the worst tweets I've ever seen.

00:12:24.880 I mean, not as bad as writing a memoir about shooting your dog, but bad. 0.91

00:12:30.100 Bad.

00:12:30.320 We will, the positive is Vivek appears to be on track to win Ohio comfortably, which would be important.

00:12:39.020 And I do think he would be a good governor.

00:12:40.820 But when we come back, I want to hear, phone lines are open, 800-282-2882.

00:12:46.180 I'm not wanting your opinion on this if you haven't interacted or used these.

00:12:50.920 I want people out there in our audience who have used the H-1B visas.

00:12:56.600 We're going to dive into this.

00:12:58.640 We'll talk about it some during the course of this hour.

00:13:02.080 We also are going to be joined by our friend Bill O'Reilly at the top of the next hour.

00:13:07.680 Much to discuss, including Bill O'Reilly.

00:13:10.800 Didn't he say this?

00:13:11.560 He's totally wrong on this.

00:13:12.660 We'll have to tell him that Gavin Newsom has no political future in the Democrat Party, basically, as the president.

00:13:18.300 You know, we may tag team Uncle Bill on this one, Clay, but just remember, he's got old man strength.

00:13:24.860 You know?

00:13:25.660 That is certainly true.

00:13:26.640 I'm getting to be an old man.

00:13:27.600 I think I'm starting to have some old man strength, too.

00:13:29.220 What is it about you reaching age and the grip strength that you have is, like, terrifying?

00:13:34.340 You know, all of a sudden, you're like.

00:13:35.440 Well, I think it's just, it's like when people used to say that somebody was farm strong.

00:13:40.040 It's like you have lived a life where you, if you are physically active, it's carrying around kids.

00:13:45.720 It's dragging the chairs to the beach.

00:13:47.540 It's just all of the non-gym-related musculature it adds up to. 0.99

00:13:54.480 Like, I don't think Uncle Bill would be great at deadlifting, but I think he could probably crack a billiard ball in his left hand, like, no problem.

00:14:04.100 Potentially so.

00:14:05.260 We'll talk about this.

00:14:06.280 But H1B1, you guys, loaded lines.

00:14:08.880 I can already see.

00:14:09.840 Poor producer Greg.

00:14:10.840 I only want people who have experienced it.

00:14:14.440 Not your opinion on this.

00:14:16.100 I want to hear from people that have actually used these.

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00:15:17.180 Making America great again isn't just one man.

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00:16:02.340 All right.

00:16:03.160 Second hour of Clay and Buck kicks off right now.

00:16:06.480 We've got Bill O'Reilly with us.

00:16:09.060 Mega best-selling author, commentator.

00:16:12.340 You all know where to go get his stuff.

00:16:14.500 BillOReilly.com.

00:16:15.840 Latest book, Confronting Evil.

00:16:18.640 Assessing the worst of the worst.

00:16:21.360 I'm sure, Bill, there's a whole chapter on people who chew with their mouths open.

00:16:25.360 The worst of the worst.

00:16:26.860 Thank you so much for being here with us.

00:16:28.280 Appreciate that.

00:16:29.020 Listen, guys, I always like talking to you.

00:16:33.360 Thanks for having me in.

00:16:35.200 Let's get into the shutdown right away, shall we?

00:16:37.800 What the heck was this all about?

00:16:39.440 I mean, give us your sense as to what the Democrats think they got out of this

00:16:46.140 and what they really got out of this and how they're going to go forward now that a lot of people, I think, saw this not the way that they had intended.

00:16:54.820 Well, they won a partial victory last week when New Jersey went Democrat in the gubernatorial race when it was supposed to be considered very tight.

00:17:06.420 It was not.

00:17:07.880 People were angry about the government shutdown.

00:17:10.080 Whenever the American public is angry, they vote against the incumbents.

00:17:14.420 That's all the way back to John Adams, and it's always been that way.

00:17:18.460 But the genesis of this is that the Democratic Party was getting beaten so badly by President Trump that it had to make a stand somewhere, sometime.

00:17:30.480 And the people who run the party, which are far-left progressive consultants, not senators or congresspeople,

00:17:40.660 the party that's being run is an article in the Wall Street Journal editorial page, a very good article about money people calling the shots in the Democratic Party.

00:17:49.940 Well, they decided, look, the Republicans' weakness is they don't have a health care plan to bring down costs.

00:17:57.200 So we all insist that the temporary Obamacare spending, which rose and was supposed to come back down after the pandemic subsided, be made permanent.

00:18:12.120 And the Democrats who fostered that knew that Trump and the Republicans would never agree, never, to more spending in a chaotic program.

00:18:25.000 So they knew that the government was going to shut down.

00:18:29.160 Now, they thought that they might be able to wait it out.

00:18:33.820 But when eight Democrats defected, it was over.

00:18:38.120 So 43 days, millions of Americans hurt for nothing.

00:18:44.020 The Democrats got nothing.

00:18:46.480 Bill, it seems quite clear that Democrats recognize that they misplayed this, that they have created a mess for themselves.

00:18:57.760 And so they decided, hey, the government's opening back up.

00:19:01.320 Let's distract everybody.

00:19:03.180 Let's throw out this Epstein story all over again.

00:19:07.220 You've known, and Buck and I talked about that yesterday and said, hey, this is a clear attempt to try to avoid attention being placed upon their incompetence.

00:19:19.080 What is the game plan here?

00:19:21.980 As we look ahead to 2026, shouldn't we be concerned that they're just going to shut down the government again and again?

00:19:30.440 That seems to me to be the most likely outcome because they don't really have any game plan, but they just want to be reflexively anti-Trump.

00:19:39.360 And if that's true, what would be a remedy?

00:19:42.420 Do you support adjusting the filibuster here to stop the government from being able to be shut down until 60 senators, which requires, you know, eight, seven, eight Democrats actually come to their senses?

00:19:54.280 Oh, there's a lot of questions in there, Clay.

00:19:58.940 Okay.

00:19:59.900 So number one, it's obvious the Democrats threw this Epstein stuff out to deflect from the embarrassment of losing the shutdown.

00:20:09.540 Everybody with an IQ over 50 knows that.

00:20:13.500 Okay.

00:20:13.760 Number two, no, I wouldn't mess around with the filibuster at all because then you're going to create a monster that is going to come back and do some serious damage.

00:20:24.280 You can't be changing the filibuster rules every two years.

00:20:28.540 Number three, the way to do this is for a new law.

00:20:32.920 And the Republicans have enough votes in both the House and Senate to pass it.

00:20:37.420 It says you get one shot at an adjustment of spending during a fiscal year.

00:20:44.340 One.

00:20:44.640 So we have a January date coming up where this might happen all over again.

00:20:52.400 But I suspect it won't because Democrats now are becoming the party of mean, the mean party.

00:21:04.140 And while a lot of Americans aren't smart enough to understand what's going on and don't really care, most do.

00:21:11.660 And so if the Democrats try the same stunt in January, there's going to be a lot of anger.

00:21:17.920 And then you're only talking about nine months until the midterms.

00:21:24.380 So the Democrats have got to be very careful here.

00:21:26.600 But the way to stop it now is to pass a new law.

00:21:30.680 You get one shot on a continuing funding basis of fiscal year.

00:21:35.080 Makes sense.

00:21:37.800 I mean, they've got to figure out something to stream on this.

00:21:39.800 We're talking to Bill O'Reilly confronting evil, his latest massive bestseller.

00:21:44.440 Make sure you go out and get a copy of it.

00:21:47.120 So, Bill, we watched or at least I watched.

00:21:49.900 I think Clay saw some of the clips you on on Bill Maher.

00:21:52.900 Well done, by the way.

00:21:53.900 That's that's always a it's a good show when they have somebody who doesn't just agree with all the communist lunacy out in California.

00:22:01.000 So it was good that you were there.

00:22:02.740 One thing, though, where Clay and I both wanted to we wanted to press you on this one a little bit.

00:22:06.920 You said something about how you don't think Gavin Newsom has a shot at the national level for the Democrats.

00:22:13.980 Expand upon this one, because we were both we were both thinking that that's look, I'll just say it.

00:22:19.120 We both have said we think it's going to be him at the top of the ticket.

00:22:21.700 AOC at the bottom.

00:22:22.720 It sounds like you disagree.

00:22:23.920 Tell us why.

00:22:24.520 Because his record is so abysmal in California, it'd be very easy for the Republicans to just take him apart.

00:22:33.600 And, you know, the spending irresponsibility.

00:22:37.180 And just yesterday, his chief of staff was indicted on corruption.

00:22:41.460 I mean, you start to look at this guy, Newsom, you're going to find a thousand things that are going to weigh him down.

00:22:48.820 And I'm not sure the Democratic Party wants to go with a candidate who's going to be on the defensive every single day.

00:22:56.660 So I would say that a guy like Wes Moore, he's not as defined.

00:23:02.340 He's the governor of Maryland.

00:23:04.380 And he's a patriot, you know, a military guy, has done a decent job trying to combat crime in Baltimore.

00:23:13.200 I'd say he has a much better chance because he doesn't have that baggage.

00:23:17.220 Now, Newsom is a good campaigner.

00:23:20.020 He's using Trump tactics.

00:23:22.380 He's, you know, running on a populist thing.

00:23:26.240 But when you lose a million citizens, that's how many have left California under Newsom.

00:23:32.640 One million.

00:23:33.940 Most of whom were affluent, paid big taxes.

00:23:38.260 One million.

00:23:40.220 You got something wrong with your state.

00:23:42.960 All right.

00:23:43.560 Well, we agree that he's done an awful job.

00:23:46.900 Unfortunately, I think Democrats don't care about results.

00:23:50.960 And he's the most strident in his attention gathering.

00:23:55.600 Kamala Harris, though.

00:23:57.240 Yeah.

00:23:57.640 They care about winning the next election, the presidential.

00:24:03.100 So if you're going to put up a Kamala Harris, all right, and she can't articulate anything, which is what the case was, has not one solution to any problem.

00:24:13.480 Nothing.

00:24:14.660 You're going to lose.

00:24:15.480 Should we do a...

00:24:17.480 Another guy from California whose record is disastrous, you're going to lose.

00:24:23.820 Should we do a stake bet here?

00:24:25.900 I don't think the three of us have gone out to dinner together.

00:24:28.640 It's a little bit unfair because, you know, Buck and I get to pay half and half.

00:24:32.620 But we think that Newsom will be the nominee.

00:24:36.620 You do not.

00:24:37.900 We're giving you the field, which actually is a great deal for you.

00:24:41.740 Do we have a handshake bet here?

00:24:43.900 Buck and I say right now, Gavin Newsom will be the nominee in 28.

00:24:48.620 Are you willing to put a stake on the line?

00:24:51.300 Would it actually be two stakes for you over this situation?

00:24:55.760 Sure, but not because I'm that confident I'll win, because it's going to be a totally different country in three years.

00:25:03.240 It's going to be a totally different country in one year.

00:25:05.760 Yeah.

00:25:06.200 That's why the election last week isn't going to have any direct bearing on the midterms next year.

00:25:12.880 The country is changing with lightning speed.

00:25:15.800 Lightning.

00:25:16.060 How concerned are you about that, by the way?

00:25:19.120 Because, Buck and I, I think one of the big stories that is still not getting enough attention is AI and how quickly it's going to change everything in this country.

00:25:27.000 Buck and I have been talking about it a lot on this program.

00:25:29.840 Are you of the opinion that AI is going to be transformative in many ways in terms of jobs, in terms of individual life?

00:25:37.600 And disruptive with that transformation.

00:25:39.420 And disruptive, yes.

00:25:40.100 The AI approach, because it's not quite here yet, is going to alter the media above all else.

00:25:52.080 Because on social media, where you can't track these people down, can't hold them accountable in court of law, you're going to have fake videos 24-7.

00:26:02.940 Yeah.

00:26:03.700 24-7.

00:26:04.300 But there's a congresswoman who accused Trump yesterday.

00:26:09.260 Let me get her name. 0.99

00:26:10.240 I got it.

00:26:10.740 I know it's because I'm going to do it on the No Spin News tonight on BillOReilly.com.

00:26:16.920 She accused, and I'll just read you the quote, Melanie Stansberry from New Mexico.

00:26:23.080 Okay?

00:26:24.340 She says, I'd like to say to the American people, believe your eyes.

00:26:29.500 We have all seen photographs of Donald Trump with underage girls sitting on his lap.

00:26:37.420 That's a quote.

00:26:38.900 Yeah.

00:26:39.600 There are no photographs of Donald Trump with any girl on his lap.

00:26:46.020 There was an AI photograph that was put out.

00:26:50.740 Yep.

00:26:50.960 Now, this congressperson from New Mexico is lying to the American people. 1.00

00:26:58.240 Now, I don't know whether she is just stupid or venal or what, based upon some AI fake image that she saw. 1.00

00:27:09.540 So multiply that by 10,000, because that's what's going to happen. 1.00

00:27:16.200 And there's no regulation about it.

00:27:18.180 How about that for a frightening scenario?

00:27:21.160 No.

00:27:21.520 And also, how do you hold someone legally responsible, let's say, for defamation, Bill, if they say, well, I saw this news site, shared this photo, and it looked real?

00:27:31.660 Because especially for a public figure, as you know, the standard has to be malice, has to be false.

00:27:37.420 Tough to prove malice if someone's actually looking at a photo that looks like a real photo, right?

00:27:42.100 I just think it complicates matters tremendously.

00:27:44.320 It makes it harder, but I think if Trump wanted to sue Stansbury, he would win.

00:27:50.760 Because their statements about Trump are malicious.

00:27:53.980 So you can bring in a whole bunch of other stuff.

00:27:57.220 And it's the responsibility of any person trafficking in the public arena to make sure what they're saying is accurate.

00:28:08.140 Well, especially something like that, right?

00:28:10.400 I mean, no doubt.

00:28:11.960 Yeah.

00:28:12.900 Insinuating, you know, some kind of sexual, you know, violation, you know, violation of laws.

00:28:18.800 Well, of course.

00:28:20.400 Right.

00:28:20.820 But you're going to see a lot more of this.

00:28:23.120 Okay.

00:28:23.880 An AI image may exist.

00:28:25.300 That's not a picture.

00:28:26.620 If I were Trump, I'd go after her.

00:28:29.280 And if somebody does to me, I'll go after them.

00:28:31.360 It's going to happen to everybody, Bill.

00:28:33.960 I think you're hitting on something that's so incredibly important because it's going to become virtually impossible to distinguish between photos, videos, what is real and fake.

00:28:45.780 And honestly, people are going to believe whatever they want to believe.

00:28:51.260 So there is going to be no ability to really kind of rein this in. 0.89

00:28:56.000 This is kind of a silly one, Bill.

00:28:57.140 But, you know, there was that photo after the Louvre heist. 0.88

00:29:00.580 You know, this is much less serious than the Trump thing.

00:29:02.760 But after the Louvre heist, there was the photo of the detective who looked like he was dressing up as like a French detective from, you know, like the 1950s.

00:29:13.600 And everyone was like, is it AI?

00:29:15.480 Is it not AI?

00:29:16.460 It was actually a real photo, apparently, but the guy had nothing to do with the cops.

00:29:21.340 But by the time that photo had made it around everywhere, nobody knew what was reality.

00:29:25.200 Everyone thought this guy was the lead detective on the Louvre case.

00:29:28.940 You know, it even gets worse than that.

00:29:31.160 There was a picture of me, Waters, Beck, and Carlson at the White House.

00:29:37.600 But that was a real picture.

00:29:41.840 By the way.

00:29:42.660 I'm tempted to say it was AI.

00:29:44.280 No, this is also going to be funny, Bill.

00:29:47.240 The things that are actually real.

00:29:49.600 Do you know what the number one response is going to be?

00:29:52.100 It's AI.

00:29:53.340 Everybody's going to say that.

00:29:54.480 We're not going to have any idea what is real and what is fake.

00:29:57.720 Because if something's out there that you don't like, you're just going to be like, ah, that's totally made up.

00:30:02.200 That's AI.

00:30:03.200 And if it's really fake, you're going to say, wait, that's fake.

00:30:05.900 And none of us are going to have any idea what's real and fake.

00:30:08.280 Well, that's why Congress has to pass new laws, new defamation, libel, and slander laws.

00:30:16.280 And they have to pass them pretty quickly to make it easier for people to sue.

00:30:21.980 But that's my point, Bill, is people are going to hide behind a bad faith, oh, I was acting in good faith standard unless we change these laws because of AI.

00:30:31.340 They're going to say, I'm just going on what was a, you know, so you're right, we've got to change this.

00:30:36.360 It's going to be a huge problem.

00:30:37.580 And to your point, Buck, it's going to be hosted websites that are in foreign countries that are hard to be able to track down because they're going to be a lot of the sourcing, right?

00:30:47.800 And then it's going to go everywhere.

00:30:49.780 Yeah.

00:30:50.400 Yeah.

00:30:51.080 Yeah, they'll outsource them to the South Asian people.

00:30:54.720 But we should have the British system anyway, and the burden of defamation should be lowered here because the charlatans are running wild.

00:31:08.960 And it's going to make it even harder for decent people not to get framed and extorted.

00:31:18.520 And that's why Congress has got to get involved.

00:31:20.800 Look, I think you're – thanks for the time, Bill, and we encourage everybody to go check out Bill's newest book.

00:31:27.220 I think the Times v. Sullivan standard, and I've said this for a long time, is going to have to be readdressed.

00:31:34.140 That's a 1960s, early 60s civil rights era precedent.

00:31:38.700 It doesn't really play in the modern era very effectively.

00:31:43.360 Bill, we appreciate the time, and we'll get you on again soon.

00:31:47.400 Thanks for having me in, guys.

00:31:49.280 Anytime.

00:31:49.640 That's Bill O'Reilly.

00:31:51.200 Check him out, BillO'Reilly.com.

00:31:52.940 He's got a lot of great stuff there in addition to one of the best-selling nonfiction book series of all time.

00:31:57.960 When we first met up with the team at the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews,

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00:33:18.340 Each day, spend time with Clay and Buck.

00:33:21.420 Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:33:26.280 Welcome back into Clay and Buck.

00:33:28.140 All right.

00:33:28.780 Something here real quick.

00:33:30.600 I want to get back into H-1B discussion because we've got all lines lit about this.

00:33:34.080 We want to have Uncle Bill on to give us the general political rundown of what's happening right now.

00:33:38.860 But we'll get back to H-1B. 0.94

00:33:40.360 It's the big conversation.

00:33:41.960 And I had mentioned this in the first hour.

00:33:43.280 I said, look, what Trump said when he said we don't have the talent here, he didn't mean that.

00:33:49.780 I know Trump.

00:33:50.920 He didn't mean that in the broadest sense.

00:33:52.980 He meant that for specific things, which is why we have an H-1B program, there are times when we actually do need to bring in.

00:34:00.880 And by the way, there are countries like South Korea, Taiwan, there are specific instances where there is a skill set.

00:34:08.720 I brought up TSMC, one of the most valuable companies in the world.

00:34:11.860 We cannot run that fab without Taiwanese assistance, even the one in Arizona. 0.99

00:34:16.500 Like, we need them.

00:34:18.160 So that's where your H-1B program is.

00:34:20.740 Now, I think that's a small fraction.

00:34:22.620 But that's what Scott Besson, he went.

00:34:24.140 This is cut 28.

00:34:25.020 He said, look, what Trump was really saying is what Buck just said to you.

00:34:29.900 Play it.

00:34:30.500 The president's point here is, again, we can't snap our fingers and say, you're going to learn how to build ships overnight.

00:34:37.140 We want to bring semiconductor industry back to the U.S.

00:34:41.240 There are going to be big facilities in Arizona.

00:34:44.060 So I think the president's vision here is to bring in overseas workers where these jobs went.

00:34:51.540 Who have skills.

00:34:52.100 Who have the skills.

00:34:53.200 Three, five, seven years to train the U.S. workers.

00:34:57.580 Then they can go home.

00:34:58.960 The U.S. workers fully take over.

00:35:01.220 So do you understand the concern that people have?

00:35:04.920 Hey, an American could have that job. 0.94

00:35:06.700 Why give it to a guy from India and China?

00:35:07.940 But an American can't have that job. 1.00

00:35:09.320 So it's specific skills.

00:35:10.560 Because we haven't built ships in the U.S. for years.

00:35:12.900 We haven't built semiconductors.

00:35:15.220 So this idea of overseas partners coming in, teaching American workers, then returning home, that's a home run. 0.99

00:35:24.180 It just has to be what he's talking about.

00:35:26.840 It's so funny because, OK, that makes sense.

00:35:28.980 Yeah, that's what the H-1B program is supposed to be.

00:35:32.900 It's not supposed to be low-level coding where you get to pay someone, Clay, from India 30% less than you'd pay an American that you could find to do the job. 0.74

00:35:42.900 Not only pay them less, basically have them handcuffed because their ability to stay in the country is entirely reliant on them being productive workers for you, right?

00:35:53.160 This is why people start to say it's a little bit like a modern indentured servitude.

00:35:56.920 That's exactly what it is.

00:35:58.060 And then they say, well, then why were they willing to do it?

00:35:59.920 Well, one, they make a lot more money here than they will in India, for example.

00:36:04.740 And two, as I said, there's the whole incentive of, well, I get to bring my family here.

00:36:09.820 I get to skip the overall immigration line.

00:36:12.080 I get to then apply in America to try to stay with my – get a green card.

00:36:16.300 There's a whole thing here.

00:36:17.480 All right, we got back and forth on this one.

00:36:20.040 So we're going to try to move quickly through the various opinions here.

00:36:24.060 Geraldine in Southern California, a computer programmer.

00:36:27.640 What do you think, Geraldine?

00:36:28.700 Hey, nice to talk to you again, Clay and Buck.

00:36:32.780 I am a computer programmer, and you all just kind of covered the points that I made to producer Greg.

00:36:39.060 I used to work for a company that was multinational, and it was kind of a – it was past the initial startup phase,

00:36:45.900 but it was a pretty young company, and they were still trying to trade on their startup culture.

00:36:50.900 And a lot of the programmers I worked with were H-1B visa holders from India.

00:36:56.360 And I think – I couldn't prove it, but I'm pretty sure that they – and we never discussed it because that's tacky in spite of what kids these days think.

00:37:06.240 I've noticed it's a trend among millennials and Generation Z to discuss your salary.

00:37:10.280 Don't do that, kids.

00:37:11.260 It's bad.

00:37:12.640 Anyway, we never talked about it, but I'm pretty sure all of those programmers from India were making a lot less than the rest of us were. 1.00

00:37:19.080 And they were very good at their jobs, but not necessarily better than the rest of us who were American friends.

00:37:24.300 Sorry to cut you off, Gerilyn, but you feel like in your experience that they could have found American workers

00:37:31.040 who could have done the jobs that these H-1B workers were being hired to do.

00:37:36.260 Yes, I think they could have, and I think they would have had to pay them more.

00:37:39.860 And I think that my Indian coworkers were happy to accept less money because that meant they got to stay in America. 1.00

00:37:46.080 I think all the points you were just making are exactly correct.

00:37:49.120 Thank you for the call.

00:37:50.180 I mean, this is fantastic, by the way.

00:37:51.580 I wanted you guys who had experience.

00:37:53.380 I appreciate Gerilyn.

00:37:54.320 Let's go to Jim in North Carolina.

00:37:57.700 You've run a business, and you've had, you say, dozens of H-1B employees.

00:38:02.600 First question for you, could you not have found Americans able to do those jobs?

00:38:08.200 Second question for you, what, if anything, do you think should be changed about the policy, or do you think it works well now?

00:38:15.460 Well, great to be with you, Clay and Buck.

00:38:18.300 First, let me just say that the H-1B program is abused in various places around the country, and particularly in the IT arena.

00:38:24.800 I will tell you that the dozens of H-1Bs that I managed, we hired them for one specific purpose, 0.99

00:38:30.520 and that was because they were more productive than their equivalent American counterparts.

00:38:36.600 When you run a business, it's the bottom line that drives your business.

00:38:40.200 You've got to be productive, and if you've got foreign workers who are willing to work harder with more attention to detail 0.54

00:38:45.760 than their counterparts in America, then you're just drawn to have to hire them and keep them employed.

00:38:52.360 We always were on the search for hardworking American workers in the IT arena,

00:38:57.200 particularly in the data warehousing business intelligence arena,

00:38:59.880 but we just couldn't find the ones that could work at the same level, the same degree of attention to detail.

00:39:04.980 So your position is there was no fungible alternative for American workers?

00:39:11.620 You legitimately believe you couldn't have run your business without being able to hire these individuals?

00:39:17.620 We couldn't be as competitive as a business by hiring workers that were 50% less productive than their H-1B counterparts. 1.00

00:39:26.200 Where did you go to get your workers? Mostly India?

00:39:29.940 Most of them were South Asia Indian.

00:39:31.520 In fact, I still have maintained relationships with a lot of them.

00:39:34.980 One other thing that's been missing in all of this, when you're looking at a merit-based immigration program,

00:39:39.540 there's no better kickstart for that than the H-1B program because a good percentage of those do become American citizens over time,

00:39:46.960 and they add so much value to our employment sector.

00:39:50.800 Thank you for the call.

00:39:52.940 David in Raleigh, you say you have been an engineering manager.

00:39:57.920 I think that's what that says, for 15 years and worked with a lot of H-1B employees.

00:40:02.760 Your take?

00:40:04.480 Yeah, I believe that for the most part, Laura's right.

00:40:08.080 We're flooding the market with too many engineers, and it's clearly disrupting the supply chain of engineers.

00:40:15.960 If you look at when I came into the industry in the early 2000s, engineers aren't making that much more than,

00:40:22.500 adjusted for inflation, than we were back then.

00:40:25.280 But I think the bigger issue, like when Lutnick came out and said, hey, it's going to be $100,000 per year per H-1B,

00:40:31.980 a lot of us were excited because that would fix the issue to a large extent.

00:40:36.820 But what will happen is the companies are just going to offshore these jobs.

00:40:39.760 We're already setting up design houses in India.

00:40:42.920 Every big Fortune 500 company has a design house, essentially, under their umbrella in India right now.

00:40:50.960 And they're growing those right now.

00:40:52.420 And so we're watching these jobs just go straight to India.

00:40:56.520 Thank you for the call.

00:40:58.000 Well, you know, part of this is also the upstream, downstream reality of when you have the consistent

00:41:05.080 and systematic undercutting of an American wage in a certain industry from, let's be honest,

00:41:11.860 in the case of India, the most populous country on Earth.

00:41:15.100 There are a lot of Indians, like $1.3 billion or something like that.

00:41:19.200 And when you have this going on, it's going to create deficiencies in the American sector.

00:41:25.900 Because, Clay, perfect example, when I got out of school, when you got out of school,

00:41:30.220 everybody in the top of my class at Amherst, unless you wanted to go save America at the CIA,

00:41:35.660 everybody in the top of my class, there were two job tracks for you.

00:41:40.460 Investment banking, management consulting.

00:41:42.360 Both of those, by the way, you could argue, where's the value add long?

00:41:47.880 You know, there's a lot of more detailed discussions.

00:41:50.420 You know, there's been a whole series TV shows made about management consulting and like how

00:41:54.060 it's, you know, yeah.

00:41:55.540 Lower your costs, raise your profits.

00:41:57.180 Like that's brilliant.

00:41:58.460 That's one that's really being erased by AI because you can plug the large data sets in.

00:42:02.900 But those were two areas where in your 20s, you know, you could come out and you could start making.

00:42:08.340 And I'm talking about 20 years ago, mind you.

00:42:10.480 20 years ago, you could make $200,000, $300,000 in your 20s pretty readily within a couple of years.

00:42:16.960 I mean, I think the starting salary at the investment banks, I got an offer from one at Citigroup,

00:42:21.740 was like $150,000.

00:42:23.460 And then with bonus, it could be up to $100,000, you know, if it was a good year.

00:42:26.820 Anyway, it's very variable.

00:42:27.720 But the point is, you went to be an engineer, you're making like $70,000 or $80,000.

00:42:33.580 Now, I know a lot of you are saying, well, that's a great job.

00:42:35.320 That's a lot of money.

00:42:35.920 Sure.

00:42:36.720 But if you had the grades to be a top engineering recruit, you also probably had the grades to

00:42:42.440 go work at McKinsey and tell people how to run their companies that you've never run before

00:42:47.060 and make a whole lot of money.

00:42:48.620 So this is the, I'm just saying the incentives that have been set up because people were thinking,

00:42:54.040 oh, well, coding almost became, or, you know, a lot of these computer skills that we're hiring

00:42:58.840 H-1Bs for are back office. 1.00

00:43:01.720 And as long as you're in a back office situation, you're never going to really be writing your

00:43:05.860 own ticket and determining your own fate.

00:43:08.520 No doubt.

00:43:09.380 We've still got a bunch of calls.

00:43:10.980 We'll get to some of those calls when we come back.

00:43:13.600 I appreciate everybody reaching out and sharing what your perspectives on what is a challenging

00:43:18.800 situation.

00:43:19.520 We'll continue to break all that down going forward.

00:43:24.080 But in the meantime, Buck, I think you got something for us here.

00:43:27.340 I do indeed, my friends.

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00:44:55.720 You ain't imagining it.

00:44:57.500 The world has gone insane.

00:45:00.260 We claim your sanity with Clay and Buck.

00:45:03.180 Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:45:08.460 Welcome back in.

00:45:09.720 Clay Travis, Buck Sexton Show, hour number three.

00:45:13.260 A lot of you weighing in, 800-282-2882.

00:45:17.760 President Trump set to speak soon on affordability-related issues.

00:45:24.820 We have got a couple of different breaking news stories that I wanted to hit you guys with.

00:45:29.760 First of all, and it seems like this is kind of a significant story, Alina Haba, who is

00:45:36.140 the state attorney, I believe, for New Jersey, the U.S. attorney for New Jersey, I believe

00:45:42.440 is her official title.

00:45:44.400 According to Mary Margaret Olihan, who we have had on the program quite a bit, she is a Daily

00:45:51.040 Wire reporter.

00:45:52.020 There was an attack at the U.S. attorney's office, and a suspect entered the building

00:46:02.480 with a baseball bat around 5 p.m. yesterday, proceeded to Alina Haba's office.

00:46:10.420 Pam Bondi says, this is in the last hour or so, these details coming out, Attorney General,

00:46:16.820 Last night, an individual attempted to confront one of our U.S. attorneys, Haba, destroyed

00:46:23.020 property in her office and fled the scene.

00:46:27.060 Thankfully, Alina is okay.

00:46:30.360 So again, left-wing violence is certainly an issue, and we're glad that Alina Haba is okay,

00:46:38.160 but somebody showing up with a bat and attacking the office is something obviously very, very

00:46:44.000 serious.

00:46:45.140 Other news, John Fetterman's office put out this statement.

00:46:50.460 During an early morning walk, Senator Fetterman sustained a fall near his home in Braddock,

00:46:56.440 Pennsylvania.

00:46:57.520 Out of an abundance of caution, he was transported to a hospital in Pittsburgh.

00:47:01.760 Upon evaluation, it was established he had a ventricular fibrillation flare-up that led

00:47:09.560 to him feeling lightheaded, falling to the ground, hitting his face with minor injuries.

00:47:16.160 He is still hospitalized.

00:47:18.200 This is a funny quote.

00:47:19.840 Senator Fetterman had this to say, if you thought my face looked bad before, wait until

00:47:25.400 you see it now.

00:47:27.680 So that is John Fetterman.

00:47:30.320 Again, he's doing well, receiving routine hospital observations, and they are adjusting

00:47:34.820 potentially his defibrillator in the way that I would imagine that that works inside of

00:47:44.540 his body.

00:47:45.600 Reminds me, Buck, that quote, if you thought my face to look bad before, wait until you see

00:47:51.180 it now.

00:47:51.820 One of the all-time great rejoinders from Abraham Lincoln, do you remember this quote?

00:47:57.080 He was accused of being two-faced, and his response was, do you think if I had two faces

00:48:03.580 I would wear this one?

00:48:05.240 Which, again, I'm paraphrasing, but a pretty witty comeback that reminded me of what John

00:48:12.260 Fetterman was saying there.

00:48:14.560 Now, remember how we talked, Buck, about Michelle Obama every time she speaks, making herself

00:48:19.220 less likely, less likable?

00:48:21.940 She is continuing to speak and drive down her overall likability every single time that 1.00

00:48:30.380 she speaks.

00:48:30.960 I thought we could have fun with this and play this cut.

00:48:34.300 Michelle Obama said, I've got a couple of cuts that are crazy, but Michelle Obama said,

00:48:40.040 black female beauty is so powerful, we are owed respect.

00:48:45.320 Cut one.

00:48:45.920 We have to start educating people about all kinds of beauty.

00:48:50.200 Yes.

00:48:50.500 Um, and our beauty is so powerful and so unique, um, that it is, that it is worthy of the conversation

00:48:59.560 and it's worthy of demanding the respect that we're owed for who we are and what we offer

00:49:06.700 to the world.

00:49:08.600 Whatever.

00:49:09.460 I mean, first of all, every man on the planet, trust me on this, is aware of beauty.

00:49:16.400 There's nobody out there who's like, hey, you know, I didn't know this woman was attractive,

00:49:19.900 but this is the toxic nature of identity politics where she's arguing basically because of my

00:49:26.620 race that we, that we have to be respected.

00:49:30.080 And I just, I, I, you read her PhD or whatever the thesis that she wrote.

00:49:36.660 Oh, no, no, no.

00:49:37.560 Under undergraduate Princeton thesis.

00:49:39.860 Okay.

00:49:40.720 No, no.

00:49:41.220 PhD.

00:49:42.040 No, no.

00:49:42.260 She, she went to law school, right?

00:49:43.900 She went to Harvard for law school.

00:49:45.340 That's where she met Barack Obama, right?

00:49:47.060 No.

00:49:47.940 She was an attorney and he was an associate and they met at the firm, but he was older when

00:49:53.000 he went back to law school.

00:49:53.940 I think is the story.

00:49:55.020 She, she at one point had a job at a public hospital in the state of Chicago, I'm sorry,

00:50:01.120 in the state of Illinois when her husband was a state legislator.

00:50:05.100 I think she was a diversity educator at the hospital making 300 something thousand dollars

00:50:09.360 a year.

00:50:09.820 And this was over 20 years ago.

00:50:11.060 So make like half a mil a year in today's dollars to be a diversity educator.

00:50:15.140 So at the University of Chicago, if I remember correctly, I think you are hitting that exactly

00:50:20.800 right.

00:50:21.360 But yeah, basically a half a million dollars in today's dollars to essentially have a job

00:50:27.760 that is a cakewalk.

00:50:29.780 You don't have to hardly do anything.

00:50:32.000 And, and that is the reality.

00:50:35.100 So all of this is, all of this is, is bonkers.

00:50:39.100 Also, uh, I pulled this clip cause I saw this circulating Democrats have decided buck that

00:50:46.780 their go-to talking point for this past campaign season, and maybe it's going to extend in the

00:50:51.920 next campaign season is that we need more, um, uh, grocery stores provided by the government.

00:51:00.640 We know that this was a big part of mom Donnie's pitch in New York city, but this is Katie Wilson

00:51:05.880 who ended up winning the, uh, mayor's race in Seattle.

00:51:10.000 I don't know if you've heard this.

00:51:11.520 This was a flashback to her campaign, but it is now circulating.

00:51:15.640 She says that they can't allow grocery stores to shut down in Seattle and that if it does

00:51:22.480 happen, then the government needs to step in and be the grocery store. 1.00

00:51:26.680 Can I just, can I just to clarify the point of clarity?

00:51:29.300 Yeah.

00:51:29.380 Michelle Obama worked at the university of Chicago medical center.

00:51:33.100 So you're right.

00:51:33.920 It was a hospital, but you know, it was the U Chicago hospital and she was executive director

00:51:39.100 for community affairs, diversity educator.

00:51:43.180 So it's what she was working on a lot of diversity and recruitment is what I'm reading here. 0.50

00:51:46.900 Guess what?

00:51:47.360 She was a diversity educator, making a half mil a year basically.

00:51:49.860 So nice, nice job.

00:51:51.280 If you can get a gig, relatively low stress.

00:51:53.700 Um, here is that Seattle new mayor, uh, basically echoing the same arguments that were made on the

00:52:00.700 other side of the country coast to coast.

00:52:03.380 What we really need is more government grocery stores, just like Cuba. 0.99

00:52:06.740 Access to affordable, healthy food is a basic, right?

00:52:11.640 We cannot allow giant grocery chains to stomp all over our communities, close stores at will

00:52:16.500 and leave behind food deserts. 0.79

00:52:18.420 Together we can build a Seattle where fresh food is for everyone, not just for those who

00:52:22.400 can afford it.

00:52:23.920 Food deserts are not natural.

00:52:25.740 Corporations create them when they abandon our communities.

00:52:28.280 As mayor, I'm excited to step up and with UFCW explore public option grocery stores to fill

00:52:34.900 those gaps.

00:52:36.080 I thought this was funny, Buck, because it directly connects with the conversation we had

00:52:40.600 during the snap debate, which is the argument that she is making about food deserts and availability

00:52:46.420 of food has been tested and it is just not true.

00:52:50.500 There is no, uh, lack of available food products that people in different communities want to buy.

00:52:58.940 And so this was a talking point, probably what 2010 ish.

00:53:03.260 And now it's just coming back, even though it's been soundly refuted.

00:53:07.160 And I do think the fact that government owned grocery stores, again, like Cuba, uh, is being

00:53:15.040 argued in favor of in both Seattle and New York city is, is interesting about the dearth of real

00:53:21.720 ideas, motivating the Democrat party right now.

00:53:25.220 Uh, they they've done this before, as I've said, um, this year, here you go.

00:53:31.480 I was pulling this up, giving the poor, this is from the New York times.

00:53:35.620 Everyone giving the poor, easy access to healthy food doesn't mean they'll buy it.

00:53:40.380 What a shock there.

00:53:42.720 And I'll read you a little bit from this.

00:53:44.260 This is 2015 place a decade ago in 2010, the Bronx, uh, this Bronx section is what is

00:53:51.940 called the food desert.

00:53:52.960 This Bronx community was a food desert, low income neighborhood in New York's least healthy 0.99

00:53:57.140 County, no nearby grocery store, few places where residents could easily buy fresh food.

00:54:02.940 The target of a city tax incentive program to bring healthy food into underserved neighborhoods,

00:54:08.480 a 17,000 square foot supermarket opened aided by city money paying for 40% of the cost neighborhood.

00:54:17.100 Welcome the addition, but the diets of the neighborhoods residents did not, they don't want to buy what

00:54:27.760 coastal elites want them to buy.

00:54:30.020 We can go over this.

00:54:31.380 This is the New York times study after study.

00:54:33.920 We can, does this really shock anyone?

00:54:36.060 This is kind of funny, isn't it?

00:54:37.120 You sit there, you go, um, in unders or in low income communities, in low income communities,

00:54:43.580 if people have the choice, generally speaking, talking about broad buying habits, you don't

00:54:48.560 have to call me and say, I have a friend who's low income and he's running six triathlons.

00:54:52.540 Yeah.

00:54:52.980 Okay.

00:54:53.220 I get it.

00:54:54.420 Generally speaking in low income communities, when people have the opportunity to buy chips,

00:55:00.060 soda, candy, you know, frozen food that they can get a frozen pizza or whatever, or they

00:55:06.520 can buy arugula, free range, uh, lean, you know, chicken breasts or whatever, which one

00:55:13.400 are they going to do?

00:55:14.800 There's a reason why they sell the food they sell in low income communities, because that's 1.00

00:55:18.740 what people in those communities buy.

00:55:20.620 Even when you subsidize, uh, so-called or not so-called it is, even when you subsidize

00:55:26.180 healthier food.

00:55:27.660 And so what, what are you going to do about this?

00:55:30.000 You know, you either let people make their own choices and eat garbage, basically not

00:55:34.340 actual garbage, but you know what I mean?

00:55:35.620 You need stuff that's bad for you. 0.56

00:55:37.000 Or you let people, uh, you know, you tell them that this is all, remember Clay, they,

00:55:42.360 they're worried about food deserts, but the snap program has to cover chips and soda.

00:55:46.120 Well, which is it?

00:55:48.640 Yes.

00:55:49.180 And the government run grocery stores.

00:55:53.140 I just, I, one of the, the biggest challenges of capitalism is young people who have all of 1.00

00:56:02.220 the benefits of living in a capitalistic society decide that capitalism doesn't work.

00:56:09.560 And it's all one big circle.

00:56:11.720 I feel like we've seen this with policing where people say, Oh, you know what?

00:56:16.920 Being concerned that you have too many violent predators behind bars is a luxury of a low crime

00:56:24.520 environment.

00:56:25.260 And so you have a low crime environment and people start saying, Hey, you know what?

00:56:28.860 We need fewer cops and we need fewer people in prisons and we need more lenient treatment

00:56:33.920 of bad guys.

00:56:35.060 And then there's more bad guys on the street.

00:56:37.080 What happens?

00:56:38.040 The overall violent crime rate skyrockets.

00:56:40.480 And it would be nice if we could just have public policy that acknowledges what works and

00:56:46.180 what doesn't.

00:56:47.260 And how about we don't try the things that we know don't work?

00:56:51.360 Government funded grocery stores.

00:56:53.380 I just, the profit margin on grocery stores, Buck, is one or 2%.

00:56:58.780 It's one of the hardest businesses to run.

00:57:01.200 You know what would really be the test?

00:57:03.320 And this would, this would go to mom Donnie ism and everything as well.

00:57:06.600 We, we, we should run an experiment, go to one of these supposed, remember it's a food

00:57:11.520 desert.

00:57:11.860 It's also, uh, an area where we're going to be told people are oppressed and there's all

00:57:16.140 this oppression.

00:57:16.660 It's a low income community.

00:57:17.760 And I'm sure there's systemic racism involved and all this other stuff.

00:57:21.020 Go into that community, Clay, set up at just a, just let, let the grocery store that's

00:57:25.900 there or let the place where people get their food.

00:57:27.920 A lot of times it's more like a, in New York, I'm speaking about now, it's more like a

00:57:31.760 convenience store.

00:57:32.780 People go in and they'll have food there, but they don't want to have the big aisles like

00:57:36.440 they will in a, in a giant or a food town or a, uh, you know, whatever, A&P.

00:57:41.380 I don't even know if that exists anymore.

00:57:42.860 Um, does A&P still exist?

00:57:44.180 The grocery store?

00:57:45.020 We got Publix.

00:57:46.100 We got Piggly Wiggly.

00:57:47.220 We got Kroger where I am.

00:57:48.400 Publix.

00:57:48.760 I should have said Publix.

00:57:49.560 Like I just lost my Florida card.

00:57:51.020 I should have said Publix right away.

00:57:52.700 I didn't.

00:57:53.120 Anyway, they don't have something like that necessarily, but you could honestly, I think

00:57:56.960 offer in the, in these same communities, you could offer not just reduce.

00:58:00.600 You could say, okay, you can either buy the stuff that we deem unhealthy or, or we'll give

00:58:06.440 you, we'll give you the healthy food free.

00:58:09.600 And I think that people would be shocked to see what the actual result of that experiment

00:58:13.040 is.

00:58:14.740 I think that would be super intriguing as well.

00:58:17.120 People want to eat what they want to eat.

00:58:18.760 Bottom line.

00:58:19.280 Right.

00:58:20.740 And, uh, we'll come back.

00:58:22.080 We'll take some of your calls.

00:58:23.080 Still a lot of people weighing in H1B, uh, discussion, impressed by the, uh, the quality

00:58:27.860 of takes there.

00:58:28.940 Uh, but I want to tell you, uh, what we are a little bit less than six weeks until Christmas,

00:58:35.440 believe it or not.

00:58:36.860 Thanksgiving is, am I correct in this?

00:58:38.900 14 days away.

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00:59:34.140 News and politics, but also a little comic relief.

00:59:39.080 Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.

00:59:41.200 Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

00:59:46.320 Canadian women are looking for more, more out of themselves, their businesses, their elected 1.00

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01:00:16.680 Welcome back in here to play and Buck, you know, we important thought that we just had

01:00:21.380 also about the food situation there and the idea of government run grocery stores.

01:00:25.960 There's a lot of lobbying that goes on by big agra and the big food companies to make sure

01:00:34.620 that the things that the liberal elites who run these cities don't want the low income communities 0.98

01:00:42.940 to be ingesting in those quantities are covered by things like food stamps, a.k.a.

01:00:48.820 SNAP, right?

01:00:49.740 Obviously, they renamed it because food stamps after a while had picked up something of a

01:00:55.420 negative connotation.

01:00:56.380 It was food welfare.

01:00:58.280 And so they call it SNAP now.

01:01:00.340 But it's the same basic, same basic premise or it is the same premise.

01:01:05.140 And I think that that's one aspect of this is that there's a big incentive, Clay, to make

01:01:09.240 people or to encourage people to eat this stuff and for it to be subsidized by the government.

01:01:14.080 And beyond that, I just think what experience with a government entity makes you think that

01:01:24.200 you want the government in charge of stocking and getting the best quality for the dollar?

01:01:29.880 This is actually a really fun question.

01:01:32.060 I'm still ticked off about how bad the food was in my private high school.

01:01:36.620 It was a scholarship school.

01:01:38.000 It was prison food.

01:01:39.560 My high school should be ashamed at the food that they were making us eat.

01:01:42.760 And that wasn't even the government.

01:01:44.860 Like, I can't imagine what it's like in an actual prison or a state facility.

01:01:48.800 Look, the efficiency required to be a profitable grocery store, to say nothing of the competition

01:01:56.980 that must occur for cleanliness and lack of spoilage and all of those things.

01:02:02.620 Kansas City tried this.

01:02:04.640 Remember the story that was out there about Kansas City?

01:02:07.120 They said, hey, we need to have government run grocery stores. 1.00

01:02:09.740 They couldn't get produce there in a healthy way, right?

01:02:13.880 It was spoiling.

01:02:15.260 Nobody wanted to shop there.

01:02:17.240 The shelves were mostly empty.

01:02:19.800 It was an unmitigated disaster.

01:02:22.880 Which, Buck, if you told me, what do you expect a government run grocery store to look like?

01:02:28.960 It is what happened in Kansas City.

01:02:30.860 It's what I would have predicted.

01:02:31.980 And I wish we had trips, like field trips, so kids could go to Cuba and actually see what

01:02:38.560 the full fruition of a government system that they're supporting now in New York City is

01:02:43.280 like, so that you could understand what it's like to not have air conditioning, Wi-Fi never

01:02:47.780 works, government-owned grocery stores, where everybody stands in line for hours to be able

01:02:53.340 to get a bar of soap.

01:02:54.440 Like, this is crazy.

01:02:56.260 Civilization is based upon individual incentive.

01:03:01.300 Yes, there's always the group, the community that you need, but you need people to have

01:03:07.260 their own individual reasons for doing what they're doing or they're not going to do it.

01:03:12.420 This is why places like the Soviet Union collapse into a totalitarian nightmare, because there 0.94

01:03:18.560 is no incentive for the individuals.

01:03:20.140 And so the only way they make you do what you're supposed to do is with a gun in the back of your 0.97

01:03:23.380 head.

01:03:23.620 So that's, it's just brute force.

01:03:25.680 If you want to have a society that functions efficiently and well, people have to benefit.

01:03:30.200 Clay, I want a grocery store where the manager's making six figures.

01:03:34.800 I want a grocery store where the people in charge take pride in what they do.

01:03:40.020 Like, you know, it's very straightforward to me.

01:03:42.940 You know where they take a lot of pride in what they do?

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