Verdict with Ted Cruz - Bonus： Daily Review with Clay and Buck with Ted Cruz

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.060 Welcome back in to Clay and Buck.

00:00:07.440 Trump right now is in Michigan.

00:00:11.460 He's going to be giving a speech in Detroit, Motor City.

00:00:16.420 That's right, right? It's Motor City.

00:00:18.140 It is.

00:00:19.180 My wife's hometown. She's up there right now.

00:00:22.560 I wish I could speak to it with tremendous fondness,

00:00:25.140 but I have never been to Detroit, Clay.

00:00:27.460 So I should probably go check that place out.

00:00:29.520 I've never been in the city of Detroit before, so I'm going to go see.

00:00:33.260 I might bust out my rhymes.

00:00:34.220 Maybe better to put on the target list, especially in the summer,

00:00:38.720 but I've spent a lot of time in Detroit.

00:00:40.560 It's a better city than I think it gets credit for.

00:00:42.740 This is like what I said about Chicago.

00:00:44.960 Carrie and I, my first ever time in Chicago, I went in May,

00:00:48.760 and it was 75 degrees and crystal clear skies, and everything was fantastic.

00:00:54.060 I'm like, I think I did it.

00:00:55.580 I don't need to go back to Chicago in January now.

00:00:58.600 I had perfect Chicago in May, so maybe I'll go to Detroit this summer.

00:01:02.600 But Trump is there right now, and he's hoping to get the American people,

00:01:08.860 and obviously his administration is very much focused on the economy,

00:01:13.060 and there are some challenges going into this.

00:01:16.300 Of course, there's always going to be economic challenges.

00:01:18.160 No one's ever going to be.

00:01:19.340 This is one thing I just want to say, Clay.

00:01:21.600 No one's ever going to wake up and be like, you know what's perfect?

00:01:24.360 The American economy.

00:01:26.060 I mean, you can be grateful for the fact that America does have the best,

00:01:30.700 most dynamic wealth generation machinery for any nation state,

00:01:35.660 for any political entity in the history of the world.

00:01:37.860 I'm like, we should remember that, but there's always going to be things

00:01:40.900 that you want to change that aren't working right.

00:01:43.960 There's always going to be problems, okay?

00:01:45.940 That's why we have a government that has to handle these things.

00:01:48.120 They don't do a good job, but at least theoretically that's what they're supposed to be doing.

00:01:51.620 I think Trump is, though, doing on the economy a good job.

00:01:55.180 I think he knows that it's absolutely critical for the American people

00:01:58.860 and also for the upcoming midterms because his agenda becomes, let's just say,

00:02:05.340 a lot harder to implement if they lose control of the House of Representatives.

00:02:10.120 They will impeach Trump a third.

00:02:11.620 I don't even think you and I can have a bet on this one, right?

00:02:13.720 You agree.

00:02:14.260 They're going to impeach Trump a third time if they win the House, right?

00:02:17.800 You agree with that?

00:02:20.260 No?

00:02:20.780 100%.

00:02:21.180 No, 100%.

00:02:22.180 They're going to impeach him.

00:02:25.860 I always wish they would just do it and not even tell us why.

00:02:28.620 Be like, we're just impeaching him because he's so awful.

00:02:30.700 Just get it over with.

00:02:31.700 I just feel like the whole concept of impeachment, if you don't have any pathway to 67 votes,

00:02:38.400 which I don't think, by and large, there will be in any of the lives of any of the people listening right now,

00:02:44.580 then all of it's just a big sham and a big sideshow.

00:02:48.180 It's theater.

00:02:48.500 Like the first two were.

00:02:49.720 Yeah, it's just non-impactful.

00:02:51.440 It's like a vote of censure or something.

00:02:54.740 It's sending Trump.

00:02:55.860 It's the congressional majority sending Trump a strongly worded letter that he will not care about one bit.

00:03:02.140 But anyway, I think that on the economy, we all know that affordability is a big challenge.

00:03:09.460 And, you know, there's some polling out there that says that he's at a rough spot right now with the economy.

00:03:15.740 Now, essentially, you look at what the things are that he could do.

00:03:21.060 You and I haven't discussed this yet.

00:03:23.040 Capping credit card interest rates at 10%.

00:03:25.720 I'm of a few minds on this, I would say.

00:03:31.400 And I want to hear what you.

00:03:32.100 Clay and I haven't.

00:03:33.340 Sometimes we're, like, texting our ideas back and forth about things.

00:03:36.340 So I'm just going in on this cold.

00:03:38.140 On the one hand, I think credit card companies have had far too much lobbying power.

00:03:46.940 They've had Joe Biden doing their bidding in Delaware, for example, for longer than I've been alive.

00:03:52.520 The fact that they can charge a 30%.

00:03:54.820 Oh, all right.

00:03:56.440 Well, we're going to have to put a little pin in our credit card discussion.

00:03:58.880 We're going to come back to it.

00:03:59.840 All right, Clay, can we make a promise we'll come back to it?

00:04:01.660 Yes, we will return.

00:04:02.720 I jotted it down.

00:04:04.160 We have an esteemed caller has joined us.

00:04:07.100 Senator Ted Cruz of the great state of Texas.

00:04:10.580 Senator, it's been a while.

00:04:12.360 Happy 2026.

00:04:13.600 How are you doing?

00:04:14.600 I am doing fabulous.

00:04:16.660 And you'll appreciate it.

00:04:17.820 I'm doing particularly well because I enjoyed last night the Texans whipping the Steelers' ass.

00:04:22.840 That just brought great joy to my heart.

00:04:24.660 That was a beatdown.

00:04:25.580 It vindicated, as a little kid growing up in the 70s in Houston, the 79 and 80 AFC championships are still wounds that have not healed.

00:04:38.200 As the greatest Oilers team we ever had with Earl Campbell crashed into the Pittsburgh Steelers.

00:04:43.380 So I feel like we got a modicum of justice and revenge for a decades-old wound.

00:04:50.820 Well, as I know, we have a massive Houston audience and are number one consistently in the slot, Senator Cruz.

00:04:58.660 Whatever the people of Houston root for, I root for.

00:05:01.860 This is my – so if it's the Texans, I'm on board.

00:05:04.360 Talk to us, if you would, on the serious side of things for a second.

00:05:10.280 Actually, can I get – it's a longer discussion.

00:05:13.540 I want to ask you about Iran, obviously.

00:05:14.980 I know you're going to have a lot on that.

00:05:16.080 And I'm getting people reaching out to me saying family members, friends of mine, whoever – either themselves or they have friends or family who are in Iran are desperate for some kind of help.

00:05:25.100 They have full – we'll get to that in one second.

00:05:27.220 It's a smaller thing, but affordability is a huge thing.

00:05:29.600 The credit card 10% cap, what do you make of that, Senator?

00:05:32.600 You take a very straightforward approach to finances and the American people's budgets.

00:05:38.040 Look, we've tried that approach in the past.

00:05:40.540 Both Nixon and Carter tried an approach very similar, and it didn't work.

00:05:44.960 When you cap prices, what you end up doing is you exclude a whole bunch of people from the market.

00:05:50.840 So you know what?

00:05:51.420 If you're rich, if you have great credit, a cap of 10% does not limit your ability to get credit because you've got good enough credit that, frankly, you're not paying 10% anyway.

00:06:01.260 The people that will get hurt by a 10% cap are people who are low-income, people who are struggling to get credit, people who have bad – people who have a record of defaults.

00:06:11.660 And if you cap it at 10%, what it's going to mean is they're not going to be able to get any credit cards at all.

00:06:16.760 Basically, you're taking away credit cards from every person for whom the credit risk is greater than a 10% rate justifies.

00:06:25.400 And look, for many people, if you've got a higher-interest credit card, you're doing that because you've got bills.

00:06:33.280 Maybe you've got to pay rent.

00:06:34.220 Maybe you've got to buy groceries that week.

00:06:36.720 Maybe you've got to pay for your kid to get braces. 0.58

00:06:40.480 And if you can't get a credit card, it will drive every one of those people to an even worse credit option, whether it is a payday loan or whether it is a loan shark down the street.

00:06:52.020 And so I think the law of unintended consequences is really quite significant here, and I think there are a lot of downside risks.

00:07:00.960 Okay, let's go into Iran and what's going on in the country right now.

00:07:05.260 President Trump earlier today had a very aggressive statement that he made, and I see Ambassador Mike Waltz just tweeted in the last little bit,

00:07:16.520 that the Iranian people are chanting death to Khomeini rather than death to America.

00:07:20.860 Freedom is in the air, thanks to President Trump's leadership.

00:07:24.220 If President Trump called you, and he may well do it, and said, what should I do?

00:07:29.520 What is the appropriate tact to establish here right now?

00:07:32.740 What would you tell him?

00:07:34.180 Well, listen, I think what the president is doing right now is exactly right.

00:07:38.340 We are at a moment of history, an incredibly consequential moment.

00:07:42.920 I think there's a very real possibility that in the next 90 days we will see the regime in Iran fall, and I think we could see the regime in Cuba fall.

00:07:53.600 Those two together, if both oppressive dictatorships fell, would utterly transform the geopolitical frame worldwide.

00:08:03.060 In Iran, we are seeing millions of people standing up against the Ayatollah Khomeini, and I think we could see that regime fall within weeks and even days or even hours.

00:08:18.540 It could fall today.

00:08:20.160 It is that precarious.

00:08:21.460 And I've got to tell you, Clay, the reason for that – let's go back a few months ago to the 12-day war.

00:08:28.180 One of the things I said at the time is that I predicted that the regime, I believe, would likely fall as a consequence of that because there are real-world consequences to losing a war.

00:08:40.760 Losing a war is not just a communications problem.

00:08:44.360 It's not just a messaging problem.

00:08:46.040 It is reality that in the 12-day war, Iran utterly and completely lost.

00:08:53.420 They were decimated.

00:08:54.760 And if you are an Islamist dictator, if there is anything possibly worse than losing a war, it is losing a war to Israel. 0.89

00:09:04.080 And dictatorships remain in power by convincing their people that they cannot be defeated, that they are omnipotent.

00:09:13.540 And the crushing defeat in the 12-day war destroyed that false image.

00:09:19.920 It showed to the people of Iran that the dictatorship is a paper tiger, and I think we are seeing incredible heroes and patriots standing up.

00:09:29.100 There was one young woman a couple of days ago who was lighting her cigarette by lighting on fire a picture of the Ayatollah and using that to light her cigarette.

00:09:38.780 That is incredible courage because understand, if the Ayatollah remains in power, they are likely to find her, to hunt her down, and to torture and kill her. 0.66

00:09:48.100 She knows exactly what she's doing, and she is very literally risking her life to try to seek freedom.

00:09:54.560 And so, you know, Clay, you tweeted a couple of days ago that what is happening in Iran is the most important thing in the world right now.

00:10:02.300 You are exactly right.

00:10:03.740 I retweeted you.

00:10:04.820 In fact, I read your tweet on my podcast, Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:10:09.520 This is a moment.

00:10:11.860 There are very few things, if anything, that could enhance American national security more

00:10:18.560 than seeing the Ayatollah and the Mullahs removed from power by the Iranian people because the Ayatollah, he routinely chants death to America.

00:10:29.940 He is an Islamist, theocratic, genocidal, homicidal dictator, and seeing him removed from power, he has killed a vast number of American servicemen and women. 0.92

00:10:41.220 He has waged war against America for years and for decades, and I think we may well be on the precipice of the Iranian people saying enough is enough. 0.99

00:10:50.800 Senator Cruz, we certainly are at a place where there could be a huge pivot point in Iran,

00:10:55.640 and I think a lot of people listening right now are very enthusiastic about the prospects of a different regime there led by the Iranian people.

00:11:02.780 But, of course, we have the concerns about intervention.

00:11:06.140 What would it look like?

00:11:07.140 What would it be to the point that Clay or the question that Clay posed to you a moment ago?

00:11:12.960 If the commander in chief, we know that you and President Trump talk, we know you guys have each other's phone numbers, et cetera.

00:11:18.240 If he were to call you in five minutes and say, Ted, I'm thinking about blowing up the following targets,

00:11:23.080 which I think are at the absolute heart of the machinery of murder against these protesters right now,

00:11:29.840 IRGC headquarters, besiege, whatever it may be.

00:11:33.040 Do you think that's the move?

00:11:34.280 If no U.S. boots on the ground, but if missiles have to fly through the sky to help the Iranian people achieve freedom,

00:11:39.280 would you be in favor of it?

00:11:42.420 Possibly.

00:11:42.960 It depends on the details and the specifics.

00:11:45.300 I am talking to President Trump frequently throughout this process and encouraging.

00:11:49.820 I think the path he's following in Iran makes sense.

00:11:53.200 I spent the entire day yesterday with Pete Hegseth.

00:11:56.480 We flew on Pete's plane back from Brownsville from SpaceX to D.C. late last night.

00:12:02.340 I spent much of that plane ride talking with Pete about Iran and what we should be doing.

00:12:07.660 And in my view, number one, we should be doing everything we can to encourage the revolution from the American people.

00:12:16.740 That includes cyber efforts.

00:12:18.840 I think if suddenly the Iranian regime, if their surveillance, if their radar, if their tools of oppression cease to operate, that is a very good thing. 0.86

00:12:27.940 Covert action, I think that is a very good thing.

00:12:30.520 In terms of a kinetic strike, an actual military strike, it might make sense to do so, but it would depend on the specific target, and it would have to be limited.

00:12:39.840 Right now, this is a revolution from the Iranian people. 0.87

00:12:43.640 We want it to be a revolution from the Iranian people. 0.93

00:12:46.880 And so if there were a particular kinetic strike, if, for example, the regime were murdering protesters in one specific location, and we could stop them from doing that, we could engage in a limited matter to stop the mass murder of protesters, I think that could well make sense.

00:13:02.780 But we do need to think about the day after, that if the revolution succeeds, and I pray that it does, then the question is, okay, who governs Iran going forward?

00:13:12.260 And that's not an easy question.

00:13:13.540 There could be a civil war.

00:13:14.820 There could be lots of unrest.

00:13:16.280 Lots of bad outcomes can happen.

00:13:17.800 And I think it is a much, much better situation in the tomorrow world if the Ayatollah was overthrown by the American people who were fed up with his oppression and tyranny and Islamic dictatorship than if people say, oh, the United States just toppled the head of Iran. 0.94

00:13:39.260 That's a much harder situation to have a good, stable government.

00:13:43.500 And so I think President Trump is doing this just right.

00:13:46.420 If you contrast – look, in 2009, the Green Revolution, the people of Iran were standing up, and Barack Obama was president.

00:13:53.560 He did everything he could to douse water on those flames and to tell the protesters, we will not stand with you.

00:13:59.620 What the president is saying is America is with you, the people of Iran.

00:14:03.780 And he also said today – this was very important.

00:14:05.820 He said the regime henchmen that are engaging in atrocities, that are murdering and torturing people, keep their names because they will be held accountable.

00:14:16.820 That's a major way to protect the protesters, to have – if you're an Iranian soldier and you're being told open fire on the crowd, suddenly if you think I'm going to be put in front of a court and tried in another month if I do this, that's part of how revolutions succeed. 0.99

00:14:33.960 So I think we should do everything we can to encourage it without taking it over, while leaving the Iranian people as the prime movers, that this is their country and they should be determining their future.

00:14:45.720 Quick question here to close with you, Senator Ted Cruz.

00:14:49.640 You were with Elon yesterday, SpaceX, as well as Secretary of War Pete Hegseth.

00:14:55.560 How good of information do we have on the ground?

00:14:58.220 They've shut down the Internet.

00:14:59.540 They've shut down all communication.

00:15:01.100 How much do you think we know about what might be happening there?

00:15:04.220 You said potentially within hours he could be overthrown.

00:15:07.160 Do we have that kind of intel?

00:15:09.840 Look, we don't know specifically.

00:15:11.560 I think it could be imminent just based on the size of the protests, on the energy, on the weakness of the regime.

00:15:19.060 I will say one of the most important things that happened is that Elon has activated Starlink over Iran and has provided it for free, which is providing communication.

00:15:28.780 The regime has shut down the Internet.

00:15:31.320 The regime has tried to shut down television.

00:15:33.740 Actually, ironically, do you guys know the main thing?

00:15:36.540 And do you know what the Ayatollah is broadcasting all over Iran right now in Persian?

00:15:43.040 Tucker Carlson.

00:15:44.360 He's playing Tucker Carlson.

00:15:46.400 That's what the Ayatollah is playing, translated into Persian.

00:15:50.440 I talked about it in my podcast yesterday.

00:15:52.380 Look, you and I have both known Tucker a long, long time.

00:15:54.920 In all seriousness, if an Islamist murderer who hates America views your words as the propaganda he wants to use to silence and oppress his people, that's got to be a real sign. 0.90

00:16:13.020 Maybe you're on the wrong path.

00:16:14.520 Maybe you need to rethink what you're saying.

00:16:16.480 Because I'll tell you, at the same time, my podcast, Verdict with Ted Cruz, our download numbers have skyrocketed in Iran.

00:16:24.880 I think people are using Starlink to download the podcast.

00:16:28.300 And if my words, if your words are encouraging the protesters that you can overthrow these despots, I am very happy with the side of history you and I find ourselves on.

00:16:39.600 Senator Cruz, thank you so much.

00:16:41.200 And tell the good folks of Iran to listen to Clay and Buck while you're at it, if you can. 0.94

00:16:45.280 Thank you for being here.

00:16:46.000 You guys do a phenomenal job.

00:16:48.340 Thank you very much.

00:16:49.340 That's Senator Ted Cruz.

00:16:50.720 Look, you want to be the most popular member of your immediate and extended family?

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00:17:21.580 Patriots, radio hosts, a couple of regular guys.

00:17:27.300 Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.

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00:18:04.020 Welcome back in.

00:18:06.480 Play Travis, Buck Sexton's show.

00:18:09.140 We thank all of you for hanging out with us.

00:18:12.720 We are talking about a lot of different stories out there that continue to get much attention.

00:18:19.860 Minneapolis, the Supreme Court decision coming now in the wake of the oral arguments that were heard in the trans sports-related issue.

00:18:29.240 But, Buck, you said, as we were, I think it was last hour, right before we had Senator Ted Cruz on, we were discussing the credit card debt idea.

00:18:41.980 And, in particular, President Trump tweeted that he was going to try to cap credit card interest rates at 10%.

00:18:53.880 Right now, I believe the interest rates have crept up often north of 20% is the current credit card rate.

00:19:01.660 So, I've got a couple of thoughts on this.

00:19:04.140 To me, basically what we talk about when we talk about credit card interest rates is what is the rate that we will allow to happen, right?

00:19:15.280 Because we're basically capping them at 25%-ish and saying that's as high as we will allow them to go now.

00:19:22.640 I think they're capped at 36%, Clay.

00:19:24.660 36%.

00:19:25.520 Is that as high as it's allowed under traditional credit cards?

00:19:29.680 I mean, I think I have credit cards that are at like 29%.

00:19:32.620 So, I mean, it's definitely higher than just like 20%.

00:19:36.200 It's upwards of 30%.

00:19:37.920 It may partly be state determinant, too.

00:19:40.400 I will be honest with everybody out there.

00:19:42.380 I am not an expert on credit card interest rates or what the rates are that are allowed.

00:19:48.660 And, I know they're different depending on where you might live or what your overall credit rate is.

00:19:56.380 First of all, I don't know that the President has the authority to be able to do this.

00:20:00.840 Legally, I know there's bills out there that would potentially cap this.

00:20:07.180 Ted Cruz said, hey, here's my concern.

00:20:09.480 He was just on with us last hour when you asked him this question.

00:20:12.800 To what extent does that curtail the amount of interest that is available in the market?

00:20:17.500 Because I think what the credit card companies would argue is the reason we have to have rates that high

00:20:22.420 is because if we're going to extend credit to people that may not pay us back,

00:20:27.000 we have to have an ability to make sure that we make the best possible profit that we can to alleviate the risk

00:20:34.300 that comes with making credit card credit available to everyone.

00:20:40.400 Now, you just said, Buck, your credit card interest rate you think is 29% on your credit card.

00:20:45.940 I don't even know what my credit card interest rate is.

00:20:48.280 I think that's if I miss a payment.

00:20:50.500 Yeah.

00:20:50.800 Then they jack it.

00:20:51.840 They skyrocket it up.

00:20:52.940 If you miss one payment, they've changed some of this stuff.

00:20:55.880 I mean, look, I'll just tell you this.

00:20:57.540 I have I was in my 30s and had a net worth in the hundreds of dollars at one.

00:21:03.120 Yes.

00:21:03.420 Okay.

00:21:04.220 So this is not like, oh, I always pay.

00:21:06.600 I had basically a paycheck to paycheck existence until like five years ago, maybe six years ago,

00:21:15.380 something like that.

00:21:17.000 So what I'm saying is I never carried a credit card balance that entire time.

00:21:21.960 Never once.

00:21:22.920 Did you just pay cash or you had a debit card?

00:21:25.880 I just paid it off every month.

00:21:27.700 Every month I paid off my credit card.

00:21:29.420 Okay.

00:21:29.920 Yeah.

00:21:30.240 Not that you didn't use credit cards and you say you didn't have a balance.

00:21:33.420 You mean you paid it off every month.

00:21:35.300 You get sure that it was not.

00:21:36.620 I'm saying I never I never ran up a debt on credit card companies when I had no money

00:21:42.380 and when it would have been a lot of fun to go buy like a new jet ski.

00:21:45.840 I did not do now.

00:21:47.200 Yeah, I understand some people.

00:21:48.660 It's grocery some people.

00:21:49.660 It's got I get all this.

00:21:50.880 But but what I'm pointing out is you you really don't want to run up credit card debt and it

00:21:58.740 should be something that people are far more educated on because the rates are super high

00:22:04.200 and it is non dischargeable in bankruptcy, which is the other part of this.

00:22:09.620 So I've been on both sides.

00:22:11.240 I also think that some of the credit card stuff that they do.

00:22:15.240 I actually got hit by this once when I was in my 20s.

00:22:17.240 They would change the due dates.

00:22:19.500 Oh, yeah, kind of arbitrarily.

00:22:21.600 So I'm just going to be clear that credit card companies have engaged in predatory behavior

00:22:25.380 that has happened.

00:22:26.120 That has been a real thing in recent years.

00:22:29.360 They have had to be they have had to been told stop acting like a loan shark mobster.

00:22:33.680 OK, moving they're moving the due date around in the hopes that somebody's auto payment is

00:22:39.500 then late and then they can hit you with the 30 percent APR.

00:22:43.040 That's a scumbag, honestly, fraudulent move like it's fraud to do this.

00:22:47.240 And the credit card companies had to get hit.

00:22:49.280 It had to get slapped with that.

00:22:50.460 So they're not the good guys.

00:22:52.140 I'm not taking the good guys.

00:22:53.440 But what Ted Cruz says is also true.

00:22:57.120 If people need access to credit.

00:23:00.820 What are you going to do?

00:23:03.160 Like you get into this moral hazard thing.

00:23:05.180 Like, what do you do if somebody needs to have an emergency thousand dollars that they

00:23:09.900 can go to on their credit card for whenever something comes up?

00:23:13.840 What are you going to do?

00:23:15.000 You're going to force people to give them the money.

00:23:17.160 You're going to force people.

00:23:18.040 You're going to force credit cards to try to give a lower rip.

00:23:19.900 By the way, it's just going to be it's like price controls.

00:23:23.100 They're going to squeeze at one end and then you're going to get squeezing at the other

00:23:26.040 end.

00:23:26.340 This is what ends up happening.

00:23:27.400 The money has to come from somewhere.

00:23:29.540 I would also point out banks will screw you at every opportunity that they can to.

00:23:36.480 So a lot of people talk about, you know, unfair fees that are hitting them on credit

00:23:41.560 cards.

00:23:42.060 Banks hit you on unfair fees all the time to my number one advice to the extent that you

00:23:50.260 can you can do it is.

00:23:52.820 And I think most a lot of financial advisors out there would say this.

00:23:57.460 You are way less likely to spend money if you use cash because in your brain, this is just

00:24:04.300 the way we're all wired cash.

00:24:06.860 You feel it in a way that you do not when it comes to paying with a credit card.

00:24:12.780 And the reason why the credit card industry works is because people live beyond their

00:24:18.320 means and they take advantage of you.

00:24:20.900 You ever fly on an airplane?

00:24:23.100 You ever notice how often they walk around trying to get you to sign up for credit cards

00:24:28.400 on an airplane?

00:24:30.120 It's because the airlines now make as much money just about off their credit cards as

00:24:36.840 they do actually off of the airline itself.

00:24:40.400 It's one of the craziest things out there.

00:24:42.760 If you're ever on a college campus, the reason why they're trying to give you away a sweatshirt

00:24:48.100 to get you to sign up is because they know what the long term value of this is going to

00:24:54.840 create for them because the numbers are the numbers a little bit like a casino.

00:25:00.120 Once they get you signed up, they know that you're going to be worth a decent amount to

00:25:05.080 them going forward.

00:25:06.180 Now, I said it.

00:25:07.340 I don't know that Trump has the ability to do it.

00:25:09.580 What I will say is this in conjunction with Trump last week talking about trying to limit

00:25:15.220 the number of homes that people could buy, meaning big companies buying up all the homes.

00:25:20.460 This is Trump pivoting because I think his team has recognized that the 2026 election is

00:25:27.480 going to be decided on affordability and people are angry over how much prices went up during

00:25:32.480 Joe Biden.

00:25:33.040 And so sometimes you put out policies that are populist in nature that don't necessarily

00:25:39.580 have a chance of happening just to show people that you're listening to them and hearing their

00:25:44.500 complaints.

00:25:45.400 That's exactly right.

00:25:46.380 That's what this is.

00:25:47.080 The Trump gambit.

00:25:47.840 This is Trump saying something that's going to do a few things.

00:25:52.940 Without getting into the details right now, because he's moving the focus and changing

00:26:00.860 the pressure here.

00:26:02.680 So you point out, Clay, people feel like credit card companies.

00:26:06.860 And that's why I said what I said before.

00:26:08.120 But I will tell you guys something.

00:26:09.380 This is actually a personal little personal anecdote.

00:26:11.220 This is true.

00:26:11.660 When I was in the CIA and I think I made thirty eight thousand dollars my first year in the

00:26:16.860 CIA, something like that.

00:26:18.460 And so I had no money and my parent, I had no money set aside for me or anything like

00:26:23.340 that.

00:26:23.620 OK, so I just started my job at the CIA.

00:26:26.560 I moved because I couldn't afford the rent increase in the initial apartment, which was

00:26:31.200 the cheapest studio apartment in this massive building living in D.C.

00:26:34.060 I moved and Capital One, Clay, I had a zero balance because I always had a zero balance.

00:26:40.640 Capital One sent via snail mail to my old address a five dollar account closing charge.

00:26:49.500 I had never, you know, was this in the fine print of my contract somewhere?

00:26:52.800 Yeah, whatever.

00:26:53.600 But I shut down the credit card when I moved because I was like, I never used this card.

00:26:57.440 It was an emergency card that my parents set up for me when I was in college that I actually

00:27:00.720 never used one time.

00:27:01.640 It was like, use this if, you know, you break your leg, you're in the ER.

00:27:04.900 It was like that's a break the glass emergency card if you need money.

00:27:08.520 And I realized I had a five hundred dollar limit, which isn't a hell of an emergency.

00:27:11.400 Let's be honest.

00:27:12.120 So I shut it down.

00:27:13.640 They sent a five dollar charge to shut it down.

00:27:16.440 I found I heard nothing about this.

00:27:18.220 I got a call 18 months later from a collection agency saying I owe them like three hundred dollars

00:27:25.240 now.

00:27:25.940 And my credit was wrecked over five dollars that the.

00:27:31.640 The notification they sent was completely unsatisfactory.

00:27:34.680 They could have emailed me.

00:27:35.460 They never emailed me.

00:27:36.500 I mean, there are all credit card companies act like scumbags sometimes is my point.

00:27:40.660 That was a total.

00:27:41.300 That was a total scumbag move.

00:27:43.520 This is 20 years ago.

00:27:44.320 And they will screw you on your credit rating, which is ultimately probably the number one

00:27:50.280 most valuable financial asset that most of us have.

00:27:54.020 And a lot of times you have like parking ticket on there or you've got a cancellation fee on

00:28:00.300 there that they're tanking you with.

00:28:02.180 This was the only missed payment of any kind like this I have ever had of any kind.

00:28:09.940 I've always been.

00:28:10.660 Look, I'm going to be honest with you.

00:28:12.340 He's a he's a competitor on radio.

00:28:13.700 I love the Dave Ramsey approach on this.

00:28:15.300 I'm very, you know, pay cash when you can.

00:28:18.220 You're not carrying a balance.

00:28:19.400 The whole point is the discipline.

00:28:22.420 It's supposed to be hard.

00:28:24.740 It's supposed to be frustrating that you can't buy the jet ski right now.

00:28:30.800 OK, you save, you figure it out.

00:28:33.240 You get there the right way.

00:28:35.180 You don't go by that, you know, that Firebird or that.

00:28:41.100 I don't know, you know, Ford Mustang that goes room, room, room, super loud and pay like

00:28:45.920 a 20 percent APR on the money like that.

00:28:48.300 You can't.

00:28:49.300 These are bad decisions.

00:28:51.000 OK, they're bad decisions.

00:28:52.360 So at some point or at some level, you want people to be disincentivized from doing some

00:28:59.240 of these things.

00:28:59.700 A high APR does that.

00:29:02.000 But I'm just saying, I also understand this.

00:29:04.380 Why is it non dischargeable?

00:29:06.140 But they would say if it wasn't non dischargeable, that would have to then factor into the risk

00:29:09.900 profile and you'd have the same problem of not having the higher rates.

00:29:13.200 This is a complicated issue.

00:29:14.520 But here on Trump, Clay, due to your point, because I think it's brilliant one.

00:29:17.540 Sorry, I just got fired up because I still remember opening.

00:29:20.540 I still remember that call from the collection agency.

00:29:23.000 And I was just like, you scumbags, you know, I mean, everybody has experienced that where

00:29:27.980 it is completely unfair and they're trying to take advantage of you.

00:29:31.840 And I'm like, I don't like my credits ruin.

00:29:33.140 The credit card company is getting like a 60 X return on five dollars for nothing, for

00:29:37.120 literally nothing for shutting down an account is absurd anyway.

00:29:40.780 And yeah, I think I wouldn't have qualified for a Fannie Mae loan based on this one thing

00:29:46.480 at that time.

00:29:47.060 That's how bad it was because it had gone on for like a year.

00:29:49.780 And once it goes on, once it goes beyond 90 days, you're screwed.

00:29:52.680 My point is Trump understands this and he knows that he's putting heat on the credit card

00:29:57.300 companies and he knows whether he has the right or rather the legal ability or not.

00:30:02.520 Clay, he has the political ability right now to maybe get some concessions out of them,

00:30:07.500 maybe get them to not do some of the grosser stuff they do, maybe move them in the right

00:30:11.480 direction.

00:30:12.040 So that's the Trump gambit as I see it.

00:30:14.200 I would also point out we're basically making a policy decision on what we're allowing the

00:30:21.220 credit card companies to set their rates at.

00:30:24.720 We're saying like you couldn't have a 75 percent interest rates on a credit card, right?

00:30:29.440 We wouldn't allow it.

00:30:31.080 So to some extent, it is just a policy choice because I'm sure credit card companies would

00:30:37.460 take a 75 percent interest rate if they could, right?

00:30:40.520 Yearly APR, they would take it as high as they possibly can.

00:30:44.040 This is to where people say, OK, we're going to balance this.

00:30:48.380 And Trump is saying to his credit, this is a one year thing, which also looks even more

00:30:53.380 political, right?

00:30:54.500 To be fair, oh, the one year happens to correspond with the midterm when you'll be on the ballot

00:30:59.840 basically for the last time of your political career.

00:31:03.120 Again, it's political in nature.

00:31:05.200 I think it's acknowledging affordability related issues.

00:31:08.320 I'm not sure how impactful in terms of getting it to actually occur this will be.

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00:32:32.240 My name, Clay.

00:32:33.480 Chalk.com.

00:32:36.340 News you can count on.

00:32:38.420 And some laughs, too.

00:32:40.220 Clay Travis at Buck Sexton.

00:32:42.340 Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:32:46.560 All right, third hour of Clay and Buck kicks off now, everybody.

00:32:50.120 Show flying by today.

00:32:51.240 Thanks for being with us.

00:32:52.820 We're talking a lot about the Trump economy today.

00:32:55.580 We're getting deep into the credit card discussion there.

00:32:58.060 Send us your thoughts if you have also credit card horror stories.

00:33:03.340 Producer Alley was, like, shocked in mind that they could be so ruthless.

00:33:08.120 But yes, indeed, they can be quite aggressive, those credit card companies.

00:33:13.720 And they are enabled by politicians.

00:33:17.700 Joe Biden is the worst of the worst when it comes to this.

00:33:20.500 Who else do you represent in the state of Delaware?

00:33:23.540 Really?

00:33:24.520 You're representing credit card companies.

00:33:26.600 That was Joe Biden's primary constituency for his entire 40-something years or whatever

00:33:31.660 it was in the Senate before he became the worst president of the 21st century, which

00:33:38.380 isn't really saying much.

00:33:39.280 I think probably the worst president, I'm comfortable saying Biden was the worst president in, well,

00:33:46.580 people might say Jimmy Carter.

00:33:47.660 You go back to the Jimmy Carter thing.

00:33:49.180 I think Biden's worse.

00:33:50.660 Carter had some.

00:33:51.800 I think Biden was worse than Jimmy Carter.

00:33:53.120 I think Carter had some, he had some dignity.

00:33:56.500 He was a man who had, you know, he was honorable in his way.

00:34:02.240 He just was wrong about everything.

00:34:03.660 Biden was a scumbag who was also wrong about everything.

00:34:07.540 So I think the scumbaggery takes him into the number one slot.

00:34:11.460 I think worst president we've had in 100 years.

00:34:14.100 Yeah, I think historically he's going to be up there with James Buchanan, who was president

00:34:20.440 when the Civil War was allowed to start right before Abraham Lincoln, which is a history

00:34:25.940 nerd take there for you. 1.00

00:34:27.260 And is it surprising that a guy who they even had to admit essentially had a brain that

00:34:32.080 was semi-functional because of dementia or whatever the diagnosis would be was bad as

00:34:37.100 president?

00:34:37.600 Of course he was.

00:34:38.780 No, I mean, it was he was dumb 30 years ago.

00:34:41.240 So now he's dumb and his brain doesn't work because of old age.

00:34:44.020 That's going to be a bad combo.

00:34:46.080 Yes, no doubt.

00:34:46.900 By the way, I wanted to mention this because we were talking about not that we're in any

00:34:50.460 way, the greatest, the greatest advocates or the greatest experts when it comes to financial

00:34:58.120 decisions.

00:34:59.060 I wanted to mention something that I didn't even know.

00:35:02.760 And I bet a huge percentage of our audience doesn't even know.

00:35:07.280 As we set the table, by the way, latest on Minneapolis, President Trump is speaking right

00:35:11.860 now at the Detroit Economic Club.

00:35:13.760 We'll go live to that in a few minutes and hear what he's saying there.

00:35:16.920 Um, the credit card debt discussion, Buck, I used to wonder, I didn't, they don't teach

00:35:22.900 you anything about mortgages.

00:35:23.900 I, I, we were talking about the lack of financial literacy that comes from schools and it is incredibly

00:35:29.920 unfortunate that that is the reality that we face.

00:35:32.860 Here is a crazy, uh, crazy take, uh, that I think a lot of people never actually go into.

00:35:40.360 Do you know that, um, when you get a mortgage 30 year or 15 year mortgage, the first, um,

00:35:46.900 the first several years of your mortgage payments, go look at the amortization table.

00:35:51.380 I don't even think most people even know what an amortization table is.

00:35:54.920 Almost all of your mortgage payments is interest.

00:35:57.660 So if you wonder why is the bank always so happy to have people refi, it can be a very

00:36:02.500 good decision because you can go from a 7% rate down to a 4% rate or whatever.

00:36:07.520 I'm not saying it's not a smart decision.

00:36:09.040 It often is, but they're giving up that rate because you go back to just paying interest

00:36:14.680 to them.

00:36:15.020 Most people never complete a 30 year mortgage.

00:36:18.440 Some 30 year mortgages for the first decade, almost all of it is interest.

00:36:23.600 And then when you look at the amortization table, by the time you get to the end of a 30

00:36:27.960 year mortgage, you're actually only then starting to pay principal.

00:36:32.620 And I don't think I, I bet a huge majority of this audience pays a mortgage.

00:36:38.160 I bet very few people have ever actually looked at the amortization table to recognize, oh

00:36:44.760 my goodness, it's nearly a decade of a 30 year mortgage where all I'm doing is paying

00:36:49.880 interest.

00:36:50.680 You're not actually getting to the principal at all.

00:36:53.580 Now people say, well, wait a minute, my value.

00:36:55.380 Yeah.

00:36:55.540 Hopefully your, your overall value of your home is going up.

00:36:58.920 So you're building equity because that home you bought for 300,000, uh, you know, a decade

00:37:04.160 later, hopefully is worth 400,000 or something.

00:37:06.660 So you're getting equity that way, but you're not actually paying it in a way that gets your

00:37:13.680 equity.

00:37:14.080 And I just don't think most people even understand that again, financial literacy, probably something

00:37:20.380 along with historical literacy that so many people are getting preyed upon because they

00:37:25.300 don't have the basic knowledge that is necessary.

00:37:28.700 Well, also, it reminds me of a very viral tweet from a long time ago.

00:37:32.720 I would give credit for it, but I don't remember, but I think it was a comedian who said, I'm

00:37:36.400 so glad I studied parallelograms in high school.

00:37:39.500 This was in April, obviously it'll come in so handy during parallelogram season as in tax

00:37:45.860 season as in now we're all supposed to become accountants in our own right and know all these

00:37:51.740 things and this incredibly complicated tax code.

00:37:55.220 And remember you are very, the same people that'll tell you all, you know, illegals, no 1.00

00:37:59.320 one's illegal.

00:38:00.000 You can come into the country and take whatever you want.

00:38:02.040 It doesn't matter, but you better pay your darn taxes because if you're part of the

00:38:05.220 productive class, if you're part of the now less than half of American households that

00:38:09.740 even pay into the tax system instead of get benefits from the tax system, then you are

00:38:16.760 a cow to be milked and you are to shut up about it and to just take that and deal with

00:38:22.000 it.

00:38:22.160 So I think that people are rightly very, their interest is, is peaked, if you will, over

00:38:28.840 the tax, I mean the credit card rate issue because it goes to a lot of what we see right

00:38:38.520 now, which is companies, corporations have things written in a way that are beneficial

00:38:43.780 to them.

00:38:44.240 And I would say this, Clay, okay, people will point out, they'll say, well, but what

00:38:49.000 about credit?

00:38:50.080 You won't get credit to poor, you know, to people that need it unless you have these rates.

00:38:54.100 Well, then why do we have a cap on it at all right now?

00:38:56.160 We do.

00:38:57.240 And people are getting credit cards.

00:38:59.380 That's my point.

00:39:00.640 We're making a policy decision on some level that we're okay at 25%, but we're not okay

00:39:07.040 with 45%.

00:39:08.300 That's right.

00:39:08.720 There is a level that we're willing to accept.

00:39:12.040 And this is where you see, it's a bit like the minimum wage discussion too, where people

00:39:16.100 will say, well, we shouldn't have any minimum wage.

00:39:19.080 Okay, but we do.

00:39:20.940 And so if we do have one, we're going to argue over what it should be.

00:39:26.360 And if we're going to have a cap, you know, if you're, very simply put, if you're drawing

00:39:33.080 a line, you get to decide, you get to argue over where the line should be drawn.

00:39:38.720 There are some people who will be, there should be no line.

00:39:41.640 Okay, that's a different argument though, because if there is a line, we're going to

00:39:45.120 argue over where that line is.

00:39:46.480 We're going to debate where that line should be.

00:39:48.000 And I think Trump raises that.

00:39:50.140 And it's a very much, like I said, the Trump gambit, because maybe it's at, again, I think

00:39:55.440 I saw that 30, I did a quick grok search.

00:39:57.260 36% is the like statutory cap right now on credit cards.

00:40:02.540 It certainly is around 30, because I've seen 29% penalty APRs on credit cards that I have.

00:40:08.120 Not that I ever hit those penalties, because I've refused to carry a credit card balance.

00:40:13.380 But Clay, if we could get it down to 20%, what would that mean?

00:40:18.860 Would that just mean that credit card stocks take a bit of a hit and have to, you know,

00:40:24.060 reassess some of their, they're still going to give credit cards.

00:40:26.560 You know, they're still making money.

00:40:28.360 I understand that at some level there's charge-offs, and you're going to say, but it's non-dischargeable

00:40:32.260 in bankruptcy, and you have this huge collections industry that's going to continue to function

00:40:37.120 as it does.

00:40:38.660 So remember, they make money off of transaction fees every time.

00:40:41.560 They're not supposed to do this.

00:40:42.560 Some vendors, every time you go and you swipe that card, they're taking a percentage of the

00:40:47.420 transaction.

00:40:47.980 Two or three percent, typically, every single time you swipe a card.

00:40:51.580 And that's an amazing business to be in, right?

00:40:53.840 But some places won't take the higher, I think Amex tends to have the higher swipe fee.

00:41:01.240 And so they'll say, we don't, you've come across this, right, Clay?

00:41:03.800 We don't, I've been to restaurants, they'll say, we don't take American Express here.

00:41:06.940 They're not supposed to do that, by the way.

00:41:09.080 Like, there's actually, and they're not, well, I should say, they're not supposed to charge

00:41:13.600 you more for using a credit card if you have a credit card contract with them.

00:41:17.840 But some places will do that, too.

00:41:18.980 They're like, oh, we charge a credit card fee.

00:41:21.300 That's actually a violation of their credit card agreement.

00:41:24.400 By the way, their power is only growing, too, because young people never have cash. 0.96

00:41:30.800 Yes.

00:41:31.060 I mean, and Apple, for instance, I am almost to the point sometimes where I would rather

00:41:36.640 just go out with my phone and use Apple Pay.

00:41:40.080 What, you know, look, Apple is really good at figuring out ways to monetize everything

00:41:45.440 that you do, and so they could get you to pay from your phone 10 years from now.

00:41:51.300 I'm not sure that there's hardly going to be anybody out there paying with cash.

00:41:55.200 And I'm going to be honest with you, I love when I get in an Uber or a Waymo or a Lyft,

00:42:01.960 whatever it is, have you been in a cab where you basically start to get out of the cab because

00:42:07.940 you're so used to being charged automatically on your phone?

00:42:11.440 Everybody out there around our age, certainly younger, probably around our age because we

00:42:16.160 at least used cash at some point in time, I can't count the number of times when I've

00:42:21.280 actually gotten in a cab and I just start to get out of the cab now because I'm so used

00:42:26.560 to an automatic charge going to my phone.

00:42:29.700 So the powers of these credit card companies is only going to grow in the decades ahead because

00:42:37.020 young people, like my kids never have cash.

00:42:40.780 They, they, they, they, I give them cash cause I'm like, Hey, make sure that everybody is

00:42:45.960 taken care of, uh, because you need to have cash in an emergency, whatever else my kids

00:42:51.120 are like, what, why, why would I ever need cash?

00:42:53.700 So I think the power of credit card companies is only going to grow.

00:42:57.800 So Trump is taking a stand on that one.

00:43:01.680 Also on the, uh, institutions being able to buy up single family homes, you know, that

00:43:07.680 that's a complicated argument too.

00:43:09.660 I know it's become very, um, popular on the right generally to talk about how the reason

00:43:16.580 home prices are so high is black rock.

00:43:20.500 For example, the massive, uh, massive financial institution that has a very large balance sheet

00:43:25.960 with a lot of homes on, you know, they just, that's one name that they'll throw out there.

00:43:29.840 But you say, well, hold on a second.

00:43:31.280 First of all, if we all agree, there are 20 million illegals in this country, they're 0.89

00:43:35.220 living somewhere and you say, Oh, well they're renting.

00:43:38.080 Yeah.

00:43:38.300 That's still housing stock.

00:43:39.500 That is off.

00:43:40.120 So start with that.

00:43:41.920 Start with, there are millions and millions of people who are being housed currently who

00:43:46.520 are not supposed to be in the country.

00:43:48.140 There is no way that that does not have an effect on supply and demand.

00:43:52.080 It certainly does.

00:43:52.700 New York city hotel rooms never been more expensive than at the end of the Adams

00:43:55.940 administration.

00:43:56.880 And it was because 20 or 30% as 20 or 30, I can't remember, but a big portion of hotels

00:44:02.600 were going to house illegals at the taxpayer's expense.

00:44:05.220 Correct.

00:44:05.580 Well, if you take 20% of, of something off the market, guess what it does to what remains?

00:44:10.160 It raises the price.

00:44:12.180 It raises the cost.

00:44:13.420 Supply and demand still a major effect.

00:44:15.840 And on the, on the single family homes situation, you know, on the one hand, you don't want institutions

00:44:20.640 buying up all these homes because you think, okay, well they just use, you know, the, the,

00:44:25.360 the funny money balance sheet they have access to that.

00:44:28.060 It's all just sort of numbers to them on a spreadsheet.

00:44:30.120 They're not actually living in this and they're going to rise the price.

00:44:32.680 On the other hand though, you want more developers, right?

00:44:35.480 You want there to be buyers ready to go so that there are more and more developers making

00:44:40.560 more and more houses to keep up with population growth.

00:44:42.940 So how much now, and the other side of it is, I don't think they, someone tell me what the

00:44:47.820 numbers are guys.

00:44:48.580 I think it depends where in the country.

00:44:50.580 I think there are some States clay where institutions own something like 20% of the single family

00:44:55.660 home stock, which seems high other States.

00:44:57.460 It's a lot lower than that.

00:44:58.840 And it's dependent upon the market factors in that state.

00:45:02.600 But this is a complicated discussion, you know, because it, it, sometimes things that

00:45:07.260 it's just like the minimum wage thing, minimum wage in California is what now?

00:45:11.420 $25.

00:45:12.320 Guess what they're doing in all these places.

00:45:13.600 They're automating, they're cutting back hours.

00:45:15.620 All the things that we said would happen, happen.

00:45:17.760 No, a hundred percent.

00:45:19.100 And look, I mean, again, these go into complicated aspects in order to talk about them intelligently.

00:45:26.560 You have to have some measure of schooling on it.

00:45:30.260 And I just think financial literacy, we do a really poor job of explaining to kids how

00:45:35.940 to balance checkbooks, how to understand mortgages, how to understand what credit card interest

00:45:40.780 is to understand how quickly compound interest works against you.

00:45:45.920 If you have those balances running forward and also in a positive way, how much compounding

00:45:51.740 works in your favor.

00:45:52.760 If you start saving, I mean, every 10 years.

00:45:56.560 On average, if you buy S and P 500 index funds, you're going to double your money.

00:46:02.240 Well, if you're a kid and you can start saving money when you're 18, 20 years old, by the

00:46:08.500 time you're 50, you've tripped, you know, double, double, doubled just in the last 30 years.

00:46:14.020 And then if you live fortunate enough to be 80 or 90, you start compounding that on such

00:46:19.140 an incredible level.

00:46:20.340 I don't think most kids think about it.

00:46:22.200 It's an optimistic way to think just to understand the larger context.

00:46:26.300 Um, and I wish we did a better job of, uh, setting this all up.

00:46:31.800 Uh, so we will take some of your calls.

00:46:33.960 800-282-2882.

00:46:35.240 We'll also go and take a couple of minutes of president Trump.

00:46:38.780 We're scheduled to talk with Jennifer say, uh, about the Supreme court decision that is

00:46:43.660 coming now on trans, uh, athletes, uh, in particular on boys, trying to pretend to be

00:46:49.680 girls to compete in girl sports.

00:46:51.440 We will discuss that and more, but I want to tell you, I got a pick for you on prize picks,

00:46:56.260 Buck, get your pen out.

00:46:57.520 So this one's going to win pays out at nearly two to one divisional round playoffs, Brock

00:47:04.640 Purdy, more than one half touchdown, Drake may more than one half touchdown, Josh Allen,

00:47:11.900 more than one half touchdown and Bo Nix, more than one half touchdown.

00:47:16.360 I'm picking this one super easy.

00:47:18.760 Each of these guys are going to throw at least one touchdown pass.

00:47:22.860 That is one touchdown pass.

00:47:24.700 If I'm right, it pays out at two to one.

00:47:27.680 That's Brock Purdy, Drake, may Josh Allen, Bo Nix, four quarterbacks playing on Saturday

00:47:34.140 or Sunday as a part of the four divisional round playoff games in the NFL, get hooked

00:47:39.500 up two to one Brock Purdy, Drake, may Josh Allen, Bo Nix do it today.

00:47:45.660 My name Clay, prizepicks.com, my name Clay, you can play in all 50 states, you can play

00:47:50.700 along with us, $5, when you play five, you get $50 deposited in your account, that is

00:47:57.880 prizepicks.com, my name's Clay, prizepicks.com slash Clay, if you want to go in that way, download

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00:48:11.220 play, $5 at prizepicks.

00:48:15.660 Clay Travis and Buck Sexton, mic drops that never sounded so good.

00:48:21.680 Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:48:26.680 Canadian women are looking for more, more to themselves, their businesses, their elected 0.99

00:48:31.160 leaders and the world around them.

00:48:32.900 And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast.

00:48:36.660 I'm Jennifer Stewart.

00:48:37.820 And I'm Catherine Clark.

00:48:38.780 And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women, entrepreneurs, artists,

00:48:43.920 athletes, politicians, and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey.

00:48:48.560 So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us.

00:48:51.800 Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on iHeartRadio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

00:48:57.120 Welcome back in to Clay and Buck.

00:48:59.520 We are now joined by Jennifer Say.

00:49:02.780 She's the founder of XXXY Clothing. 1.00

00:49:05.920 And Jennifer, appreciate you making the time for us.

00:49:08.100 Thanks for having me, guys.

00:49:11.900 So you are building a brand with fantastic apparel, I might add.

00:49:16.880 I wear it frequently, where you take this very controversial position that for women's

00:49:23.320 sports to thrive, it should actually be for women. 1.00

00:49:26.900 And this shouldn't be controversial at all.

00:49:28.920 But it is so crazy that we actually now have a Supreme Court situation playing out.

00:49:35.660 Did you get a chance to hear any of the arguments today?

00:49:38.100 Or do you just feel like you've heard it all before because this is where you're constantly

00:49:44.120 in the fight and in the fray?

00:49:47.880 I did not get a chance to hear any of the arguments.

00:49:50.640 I was on the steps of the Supreme Court for the rally.

00:49:53.600 There was an amazing lineup of speakers.

00:49:56.020 First, Riley Gaines spoke first.

00:49:58.960 And gosh, there were so many other young female athletes who've been standing up for 0.66

00:50:03.180 fairness and, frankly, just reality.

00:50:07.120 So I did not get a chance to hear any of the arguments.

00:50:11.040 I read some of the recaps.

00:50:12.300 I spoke maybe about a half an hour ago at the same rally.

00:50:15.960 I've heard all the arguments before.

00:50:17.540 The arguments make no sense.

00:50:18.880 This isn't complicated.

00:50:20.800 There are two sexes. 0.58

00:50:22.080 There's one truth.

00:50:23.100 There are men and women.

00:50:23.900 And Title IX was created to recognize the biological differences between men and women and to

00:50:30.840 ensure that girls and women have equal opportunity through sports.

00:50:34.000 It's not complicated.

00:50:35.280 And now they're arguing that Title IX's intent was about gender identity, which it never was.

00:50:41.280 It's all so stupid.

00:50:42.600 I mean, I just can't.

00:50:43.720 It's so dumb.

00:50:44.600 But it's also critically important that we win these cases.

00:50:50.340 And, you know, I would just add one thing.

00:50:51.840 We're sort of fighting for the bare minimum here.

00:50:53.860 All it means if we win these cases is that the 27 states that have laws on the books protecting women's sports can continue to do so.

00:51:00.920 It doesn't solve the problem in the other 23 states.

00:51:03.620 Let's play cut 33.

00:51:06.860 I want you to be able to hear it.

00:51:08.420 Thanks for coming on with us, Jennifer.

00:51:09.880 I know how busy your day is.

00:51:11.760 Here is Ketanji Brown Jackson suggesting it's not important to define what a woman is when it comes to men and women's sports.

00:51:20.640 Cut 33.

00:51:21.480 You have the overarching classification.

00:51:24.980 You know, everybody has to be play on the team that is the same as their sex at birth.

00:51:31.680 But then you have a gender identity definition that is operating within that, meaning a distinction, meaning that for cisgender girls, they can play consistent with their gender identity.

00:51:44.480 For transgender girls, they can't. 1.00

00:51:47.140 So I think that, okay, as to the part about your ability to pass over from boy to girl, where you can go from one way but not the other,

00:51:55.060 I want to be clear that BPJ is not challenging that specific classification.

00:51:58.960 I think that's important to start with.

00:52:00.600 But I think, if anything, that's useful evidence as to the lack of a transgender-based discrimination,

00:52:05.840 because if the legislature were just sort of unsettled by the notion of transgender athletes,

00:52:11.140 I think the answer would have been to then bar them from passing over any way to consider what they're gender identity. 0.95

00:52:15.340 I appreciate that.

00:52:15.920 But I guess I was getting at what I understood the chief justice to be trying to.

00:52:21.240 We can cut her off here. 0.55

00:52:23.660 Jennifer, you worked and lived in San Francisco for a long time.

00:52:28.360 Did you ever think that the left in this country would descend to the point where arguing that men's and women's sports should be defined by gender is an unacceptable way to characterize sports?

00:52:44.740 I mean, a part of me is just in disbelief that we have a Supreme Court case about this.

00:52:50.320 Are you as blown away by that as I am?

00:52:52.720 I mean, I am, if I take a step back and say, this is so ridiculous.

00:53:00.040 Obviously, there are only two sexes. 0.93

00:53:02.000 Sex is not assigned at birth.

00:53:03.580 Gender identity is a fiction. 1.00

00:53:05.720 It doesn't matter.

00:53:06.780 It has no relevance in defining what women's sports are. 1.00

00:53:09.700 So, yeah, but I'm not blown away when I think about what I do every day and the pushback I get and what Riley's been doing for the last four years and what many far left women, frankly, the TERFs, as they are known, have been doing for over a decade. 1.00

00:53:28.460 So, I mean, it's shocking and not shocking at the same time.

00:53:32.440 And, you know, I would just say, you know, being the only person there at the rally today, you know, sort of representing an organization that's not a nonprofit but a brand, we ceded the culture to these crazy people for the last 20 years.

00:53:47.620 And there's no other reason.

00:53:50.580 They sort of captured the culture with this fiction that there's, you know, 17, 72 genders and sex isn't real and these boys' feelings and how they feel about their, quote, unquote, gender matter more than girls' rights.

00:54:02.560 I mean, it's an absurdity, but it's infiltrated the culture and it's captured hearts and minds.

00:54:07.520 And we've got to wrest it back with the full force that was taken from us.

00:54:11.300 That's the only way, even if we win these cases, we're going to get the other 23 states.

00:54:15.460 It's as if every mom and dad in America and every female athlete that's competing stands up and says, this is so stupid.

00:54:21.860 I'm not doing this.

00:54:23.420 We deserve our own sports and spaces.

00:54:25.480 But, yes, I'm shocked and I'm not at the same time.

00:54:28.460 I mean, I'm sure you feel the same way, Clay.

00:54:31.360 Yeah, and I've got to say it's remarkable that, Jennifer, this has gotten to the point, this issue on what I call gender communism,

00:54:39.540 where they have pushed this to the extremes that were warned about years and decades ago, such that, you know, you have had like a biological male competing against women in mixed martial arts,

00:54:53.300 which is just insane and brutal and dangerous, where you have had biological.

00:54:59.000 By the way, I also I hate the terminology here.

00:55:01.880 I don't like that the Supreme Court had Justice Katanji Brown Jackson saying cis girls and trans girls.

00:55:09.120 There's actually no such thing as trans girls.

00:55:11.700 And really, I think that's the big problem here.

00:55:14.020 Start from start from premise number one.

00:55:16.040 There are men or boys who think they are women and they are not.

00:55:20.380 And that's the truth.

00:55:21.360 And they can argue about this with us all day, but it won't change the truth.

00:55:25.960 Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

00:55:27.820 We've got to take the language back. 1.00

00:55:29.280 We've got to take the culture back and trans is a fiction. 1.00

00:55:32.640 Gender identity is a fiction. 1.00

00:55:34.380 These are boys who claim to be girls.

00:55:36.240 I'm not even going to go along with think they are girls.

00:55:38.480 They claim to be girls.

00:55:40.200 They have no place in women's sports. 1.00

00:55:42.020 We have all sorts of restrictions in sports.

00:55:44.040 We have weight classes.

00:55:45.180 We have age classes.

00:55:47.860 You know, yes, there are sex classes.

00:55:50.460 If girls have to play against boys, eventually they're going to stop playing. 1.00

00:55:55.480 You know, I talked about this today when I spoke on the steps of the Supreme Court.

00:55:58.680 I was a gymnast as a young person, a seven-time national team member, came back from all manner

00:56:03.240 of injuries, everything from broken ankles and broken femurs.

00:56:06.560 I came back to win.

00:56:07.480 I never gave up.

00:56:08.220 But if I knew the deck was stacked against me from the beginning, if I knew that I had

00:56:11.740 to compete against boys, I think I would have given up.

00:56:14.340 And we are telling girls every single day that they don't matter enough to fight for, 1.00

00:56:18.060 that they need to sit down, be quiet, and just let that boy who claims to be a girl have 0.95

00:56:22.400 what he wants.

00:56:22.920 Why are you being so mean?

00:56:24.420 That's what we're telling girls.

00:56:25.660 Well, that's the message we're sending them.

00:56:27.880 That's what I can't believe.

00:56:29.080 You know, I started gymnastics two years after Title IX passed.

00:56:32.120 I thought we did this.

00:56:33.460 I thought we were done.

00:56:34.440 And yet, here we are.

00:56:36.280 And we're telling girls they need to be quiet and let boys have what they want. 1.00

00:56:40.260 I mean, it really is misogyny and a dress. 0.85

00:56:42.940 There's no other way to describe it.

00:56:44.680 Um, Jennifer, Buck and I were discussing this.

00:56:48.580 What happens?

00:56:50.140 What happens in your mind?

00:56:52.860 Um, if, uh, if this case is decided 6-3, which crazily, I think it's likely to be.

00:57:00.160 Do Democrats step off of crazy train and say, okay, well, the Supreme Court has now decided

00:57:06.340 this.

00:57:06.840 We're not going to continue to fight about it.

00:57:08.900 Or do you think this battle is going to continue into the future as a part of the standard Democrat

00:57:16.080 orthodoxy?

00:57:18.820 I think it's going to continue, Clay.

00:57:21.440 I mean, you're a lawyer.

00:57:23.440 I guess this is a culture question, though, just as much.

00:57:26.500 I believe the 23 states plus Washington, D.C. that currently allow boys to compete in girls

00:57:32.060 sports are going to double down.

00:57:33.380 And they really have convinced themselves that this fiction is a truth and that they

00:57:38.560 are the civil rights warriors.

00:57:39.960 They feel very morally superior in allowing boys to trample girls' rights.

00:57:46.380 And I think they're, I think they're going to double down.

00:57:48.440 I don't think this goes away anytime soon.

00:57:51.060 That said, I think this decision, if it goes our way, and I agree with you, I think it'll

00:57:56.360 be 6-3, although some of the AGs are claiming 9-0.

00:57:59.180 That's never going to happen, especially as you play that Patanji Brown-Jackson clip for

00:58:04.540 me.

00:58:05.280 I think more people will be comfortable and confident standing up and saying biology is

00:58:12.480 real.

00:58:14.020 You know, this is a 90-10 issue, right?

00:58:17.320 Most people agree with us, even in California.

00:58:19.240 And yet most people are silent on it because they're afraid.

00:58:23.420 But I think a decision that leads our way is going to give some more people the confidence

00:58:29.340 to stand up and fight.

00:58:30.600 And I think we're going to have to wage the last part of this battle on the cultural line.

00:58:35.340 I will say the Washington Post, I read some of the clips from their editorial was staggering

00:58:41.000 to me that they would acknowledge the cultural shift and represented there.

00:58:45.780 I do think this is important too.

00:58:47.480 For people out there that are super fired up and furious about this, your brand.

00:58:52.100 If you're a woman right now and you are listening to us and you are wearing athletic leisure 0.98

00:58:58.100 wear, athleisure, your brand is defining itself by saying, hey, women's sports should be played

00:59:06.020 by women. 0.78

00:59:07.000 And it's the only athletic brand in America that's even willing to say that.

00:59:11.920 My wife wears this gear all the time. 1.00

00:59:14.300 Buck has got some.

00:59:15.260 They have men's gear too.

00:59:16.360 But for the women out there in particular, or the men that maybe want to buy gear for

00:59:21.020 their wives, where can they go to register in an economic way their disapproval with the 1.00

00:59:27.660 Nikes of the world trying to argue, hey, that dude in a sports bra is just as much of a

00:59:32.860 woman as everybody else.

00:59:35.320 Right.

00:59:35.960 Yeah.

00:59:36.240 All those other brands you're alluding to, whether it's Nike, Adidas, they're all on

00:59:39.880 the wrong side of this.

00:59:40.740 They make tons of money off of pretending to champion female athletes and they're selling 0.98

00:59:44.460 women down. 1.00

00:59:45.280 They're selling us out.

00:59:46.860 So you do need to vote with your dollars.

00:59:49.100 If you go to thetruthfits.com, that's our site.

00:59:52.640 You can also find us at xx-xyathletics.com.

00:59:56.180 And we have everything you could possibly want except shoes.

00:59:58.780 We don't have those yet.

01:00:00.800 Workout gear.

01:00:01.480 We do team uniforms if you reach out to us directly, anything you can want for men and

01:00:06.600 women. 0.81

01:00:07.040 And we do.

01:00:07.620 We have to vote with our dollars.

01:00:09.040 And it's the highest quality product.

01:00:10.360 You guys both wear it.

01:00:11.660 Your wives wear it. 0.84

01:00:13.120 It competes with the best brands in the world.

01:00:15.280 That's my goal.

01:00:15.860 This is not merch.

01:00:16.740 This is a brand.

01:00:17.720 We need to give people the opportunity to wear their values.

01:00:22.500 I mean, wear the truth.

01:00:23.540 It was so heartening to me.

01:00:25.220 I looked out in the crowd on the steps today and so many people were wearing this brand.

01:00:29.280 And it really is the symbol that you believe in reality, which is cool.

01:00:34.240 Fantastic.

01:00:34.920 Thank you so much, Jennifer.

01:00:35.980 Keep up the fight and keep selling great, great clothing on xx-xy.

01:00:39.480 Appreciate you.

01:00:41.540 Thank you.

01:00:42.280 Appreciate you guys.

01:00:43.840 All right, Clay.

01:00:44.300 I got I got to do a little cleanup here for a second on something because I'm getting all

01:00:48.480 the all the bankruptcy lawyers in our audience are reaching out to me.

01:00:51.680 I had said that credit card debt is non-dischargeable.

01:00:55.140 That is not, strictly speaking, accurate.

01:00:59.280 But the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005 made credit card.

01:01:06.940 It used to just be you could declare bankruptcy.

01:01:08.560 Your credit card debt is gone.

01:01:09.980 That's not the case anymore.

01:01:11.660 Now they can when you go to bankruptcy court, they can divert you from a Chapter 7 to a Chapter

01:01:18.180 13 filing.

01:01:19.540 And so what this BAPCPA law, B-A-P-C-P-A law did is luxury goods will not be dischargeable

01:01:29.780 in a bankruptcy.

01:01:30.800 Cash advances in certain circumstances, not dischargeable.

01:01:34.300 And this is all credit card stuff, right?

01:01:35.980 So if you put luxury goods on your credit card within 90 days of filing, then they say no.

01:01:42.980 So they put all these barriers and you can get into mandatory credit counseling for you

01:01:49.120 to be approved for bankruptcy.

01:01:50.680 They don't do this for other things is the point.

01:01:52.900 Okay.

01:01:53.380 So the credit card companies managed to get written into law a whole bunch of additional

01:01:58.700 it's going to be much harder for you to just walk away from this things.

01:02:02.320 But technically, yes, it is dischargeable.

01:02:05.240 If you don't hit any of these thresholds, agree to the credit counseling and go through

01:02:11.020 and increase documentation and court scrutiny.

01:02:14.600 So it's I haven't ever done bankruptcy law at all.

01:02:18.400 I don't think I even took the course in in law school.

01:02:21.460 So that's super complicated.

01:02:25.180 But that bankruptcy law is like divorce law.

01:02:28.380 The only people get rich from it are the lawyers.

01:02:30.660 Well, that's certainly true.

01:02:32.200 There's a nutritional supplement so prevalent these days that you need to check it out.

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01:02:43.800 Things have been getting better the last 18 months.

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01:02:48.880 Chuck's male vitality stack is their bestseller.

01:02:50.920 I take it every day.

01:02:52.460 And this is really important because it helps with your T levels.

01:02:55.840 Guys, testosterone levels, you get into your 40s, they start to drop.

01:02:59.280 You get into your 50s and 60s, they're dropping a lot.

01:03:02.660 But what about something that's all natural, highest purity you can find, and can really

01:03:07.360 help with those T levels over time?

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01:03:37.840 Keep up with the biggest political comeback in world history on the Team 47 podcast.

01:03:44.080 Clay and Buck highlight Trump replays from the week, Sundays at noon Eastern.

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01:03:52.340 This is an iHeart Podcast.

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Verdict with Ted Cruz - January 13, 2026

Bonus： Daily Review with Clay and Buck with Ted Cruz

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