Verdict with Ted Cruz - Bonus： Daily Review with Clay Travis and Buck Sexton

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.500 Guaranteed human.

00:00:05.280 Welcome in, Clay Travis, Buck Sexton Show.

00:00:08.940 Appreciate all of you hanging out with us

00:00:11.040 as we are rolling in on a Thursday edition of the program.

00:00:16.460 All right, we got a lot of breaking news.

00:00:19.540 Many of you wondering, and we are still waiting,

00:00:22.800 for the biggest breaking news on the show,

00:00:25.580 which is Buck and Carrie Sexton and the baby update.

00:00:30.660 Last night, they said,

00:00:32.260 hey, actually, we don't want you coming in tonight

00:00:35.040 to deliver the baby.

00:00:36.540 They have gone in today, texting with Buck last night.

00:00:40.720 I'm trying to stay out of the line of fire here

00:00:43.420 because I know having been through three deliveries,

00:00:46.000 it's a little bit crazy.

00:00:47.400 We will update you as news arrives.

00:00:51.140 But I told Buck last night when they got the pass,

00:00:55.040 it's like, hey, you might as well watch Gladiator tonight.

00:00:58.220 You don't have to go in for the...

00:01:00.500 I'm sure Carrie couldn't be any more excited.

00:01:02.740 She's got another night at home, nine months pregnant.

00:01:05.120 You guys should definitely crank up Gladiator,

00:01:07.380 maybe Braveheart, maybe you can double down.

00:01:10.320 So we will update you on Baby Watch 2025

00:01:13.700 as we get updates here.

00:01:16.180 But the result is I am with you solo,

00:01:18.740 at least for today and tomorrow.

00:01:20.480 Don't know how long Buck will stay out

00:01:22.920 with the baby coming.

00:01:23.900 But that is that update.

00:01:26.740 All right.

00:01:27.140 A lot of different news stories going on right now.

00:01:30.880 Let me hit you with the absolute latest.

00:01:32.940 Positive.

00:01:34.080 Inflation is softening.

00:01:36.280 It has hit the lowest rate, 2.4%,

00:01:39.680 since COVID, basically.

00:01:43.140 It has actually turned negative,

00:01:45.480 which is very positive.

00:01:47.340 We will break all that down.

00:01:49.540 That is this morning's news.

00:01:51.900 A budget resolution has passed the House,

00:01:55.480 which will allow us to theoretically get one big,

00:02:00.460 beautiful bill from the House and the Senate.

00:02:06.040 They will now move into reconciliation.

00:02:08.500 It passed 2.16 to 2.14 after it was held over last night.

00:02:15.520 And so we are going to get the tax cut,

00:02:19.220 all of that.

00:02:20.080 The details need to be hammered out.

00:02:22.460 That is on its way.

00:02:24.400 Also, we have further an addition of the tariffs coming down on China.

00:02:35.340 145% is now the tariff level that Trump has put onto China.

00:02:42.020 Yesterday, the stock market had an absolute record day

00:02:46.800 after a 90-day pause was put into place

00:02:50.540 on the tariffs for every other country.

00:02:54.240 But Trump now continues to escalate the China trade war.

00:02:59.260 He has isolated China,

00:03:00.980 and the tariff is now up to 145% onto China.

00:03:08.460 Stocks have begun to backtrack

00:03:11.080 as Trump is saying that China is the worst trade abuser in history.

00:03:16.600 So all of that is underway.

00:03:19.720 Many different aspects of breaking news associated with it.

00:03:24.800 And so all of those right now underway.

00:03:29.120 Again, stock market has turned negative.

00:03:31.880 It has been an absolute roller coaster

00:03:34.180 for everybody paying attention to the trade.

00:03:37.240 Yesterday was the best day

00:03:39.880 that we have seen percentage-wise

00:03:42.920 nearly in the history of the stock market.

00:03:45.880 But as I am talking to you right now,

00:03:47.560 to the extent that I am now also a financial news analyst,

00:03:51.700 the S&P 500 down about 4.5%

00:03:55.040 after rising itself nearly 10% yesterday.

00:03:59.880 So all of that going on right now,

00:04:03.340 we do have some audio clips to put into context.

00:04:06.900 Let me put that all into context for you.

00:04:08.780 First, cut one.

00:04:10.180 This was Stuart Varney saying inflation softening.

00:04:13.440 It's now at 2.4%.

00:04:15.960 That is lower than the expected rate.

00:04:18.660 Let's listen.

00:04:19.020 Take a big, deep breath.

00:04:20.340 There's a whirlwind coming at you and your money.

00:04:23.080 We'll start with inflation.

00:04:24.660 Last month, consumer prices went down 0.1%.

00:04:28.720 In the last year, they're up only 2.4%.

00:04:32.160 Those are favorable numbers.

00:04:34.040 Inflation is softening.

00:04:36.320 Okay, so inflation softening,

00:04:38.660 hitting a four-year low.

00:04:41.160 And also, this was CNN pointing out,

00:04:43.720 as you heard Stuart Varney say there,

00:04:46.160 actually, prices have actually gone down.

00:04:49.780 This is cut 24, which is an updated version

00:04:54.340 of what CNN is saying.

00:04:56.280 Listen to this.

00:04:57.160 Consumer prices month over month.

00:04:58.600 So this was actually a drop of 0.1%, negative 0.1%.

00:05:02.400 That's the first time we've seen that since COVID.

00:05:05.500 Year over year, the annual inflation rate was at 2.4%.

00:05:09.420 This was also better than expected

00:05:11.820 and a six-month low moving in the right direction.

00:05:16.100 As far as why this happened, there's a few drivers.

00:05:18.860 One thing that really played a role here,

00:05:21.520 as you can see the trend here,

00:05:22.940 the inflation rate dipping a little bit,

00:05:24.200 one of the drivers was energy.

00:05:26.020 The fact that gasoline prices did not move up

00:05:29.080 like they usually do in the month of March,

00:05:31.800 that really helped.

00:05:33.360 Okay, so that is the updated inflation numbers.

00:05:38.340 Why does this matter?

00:05:39.820 Well, certainly, inflation got to 9% under Joe Biden.

00:05:44.160 Remember, it started off at 1.8% when he came into office

00:05:49.060 in January of 2021, rapidly skyrocketed to 9%,

00:05:54.720 and we have been fighting the inflation battle since

00:05:57.660 to bring it all the way back down to now 2.4%.

00:06:01.500 Trump is arguing, and I think there is some basis

00:06:04.560 in truth for this, that the overall interest rates

00:06:08.480 set by the Fed need to be dropped as well.

00:06:11.360 Obviously, that is why we're dealing with 7% still-ish

00:06:15.960 30-year mortgage rates that many of you have got

00:06:19.400 in your lives that have locked you up

00:06:21.320 and are keeping you from moving into a new house

00:06:23.720 or maybe even putting your house on the market

00:06:25.860 because you don't want to give up the number that you got.

00:06:29.180 Okay, all of this is complicated.

00:06:31.260 Let's go back into the tariff universe here.

00:06:33.580 Trump was asked about why he decided

00:06:37.400 to put a 90-day pause in place.

00:06:40.880 This is something that we told you on the show

00:06:43.000 we thought made a lot of sense,

00:06:45.500 and Trump is saying, hey, we are rewarding

00:06:48.140 the countries that have not retaliated

00:06:51.860 with higher rates of tariffs,

00:06:54.640 and here is Trump cut four speaking to the press

00:06:58.800 saying he was watching the bond market

00:07:01.180 and he was concerned about how the bond market was moving.

00:07:05.960 Listen to Cut Four.

00:07:06.920 I was watching the bond market.

00:07:08.520 The bond market is very tricky.

00:07:10.080 I was watching it, but if you look at it now,

00:07:12.080 it's beautiful.

00:07:13.560 The bond market right now is beautiful.

00:07:16.100 But yeah, I saw last night

00:07:17.740 where people were getting a little queasy.

00:07:19.560 I think everything had...

00:07:20.880 Well, the big move wasn't what I did today.

00:07:22.860 The big move was what I did on Liberation Day.

00:07:25.480 We had Liberation Day in America.

00:07:27.100 We were liberated from all of the horrible deals

00:07:29.460 that were made.

00:07:30.300 Okay, so that is Trump.

00:07:31.660 Here is Trump as well.

00:07:33.660 He is asked...

00:07:35.080 Well, let's first see...

00:07:36.880 Trump has asked why Democrats wanted tariffs in the past.

00:07:40.860 If you've seen Nancy Pelosi,

00:07:42.500 if you've seen all of these other Democrats,

00:07:44.940 Chuck Schumer,

00:07:45.560 talk about the necessity for tariffs.

00:07:48.040 Here is Cut Six.

00:07:49.580 Trump is praising a reporter who asked

00:07:51.900 why Democrats wanted tariffs back then.

00:07:54.060 Now they hate them.

00:07:55.080 Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi,

00:07:56.340 they've been talking about tariffs for decades.

00:07:58.380 How come when these Democrat elites want tariffs,

00:08:00.860 everything's hunky-dory,

00:08:02.060 but when President Trump wants tariffs,

00:08:03.700 all hell breaks loose?

00:08:04.520 Do you see this double standard?

00:08:05.680 I love this guy.

00:08:06.820 Whoever the hell that is...

00:08:08.160 That's really nice.

00:08:10.320 I appreciate that question.

00:08:11.480 No, Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi,

00:08:12.880 everybody knew you had to do it,

00:08:14.500 but they never had the guts to do it.

00:08:16.080 It does take guts.

00:08:17.140 It even takes guts for our country to go through it.

00:08:19.720 That's why I say be cool.

00:08:20.900 They were saying about...

00:08:22.080 See, just be cool.

00:08:22.800 It's going to work out.

00:08:24.160 It's going to work out.

00:08:25.060 And it's working out.

00:08:26.740 I can tell you,

00:08:27.380 working out maybe faster than I thought.

00:08:30.900 But I said,

00:08:31.900 it's going to take a little conditioning.

00:08:36.380 It's a transition to...

00:08:38.180 It's really...

00:08:38.760 I think it's a transition to greatness.

00:08:40.660 It's going to be greatness.

00:08:42.100 Our country is going to be...

00:08:43.040 There'll be nothing like it.

00:08:44.640 And people investing in our country,

00:08:46.660 they're going to do better

00:08:47.340 than they've ever done before.

00:08:48.700 Okay, so let's talk about where we are right now.

00:08:51.920 Effectively, Trump has isolated China.

00:08:54.020 The tariff rate on China, as I said,

00:08:56.820 has now been elevated to 145%.

00:09:00.520 Every other country out there,

00:09:03.320 effectively, is in a tariff pause.

00:09:06.420 They are negotiating.

00:09:07.700 I think you will see in the near future,

00:09:10.000 Trump start to announce trade agreements

00:09:12.100 with England, with Japan,

00:09:16.320 with South Korea, Australia,

00:09:19.040 countries that we have strong relationships with.

00:09:21.860 I don't think it will take very long

00:09:23.940 for those new deals to go into place.

00:09:26.740 In the meantime,

00:09:28.020 what he has now done is effectively announce,

00:09:31.080 hey, this is the United States versus China.

00:09:33.360 And he has isolated China

00:09:34.980 so that they are standing alone

00:09:36.660 in terms of how this battle is playing out.

00:09:39.480 And he has elevated tariffs

00:09:40.920 to now 145% on Chinese goods.

00:09:45.780 This handcuffs China in a substantial degree

00:09:49.860 because China relies on exports to the United States

00:09:54.360 for a massive part of its overall economic growth.

00:09:58.300 And if China is not able to move those exports

00:10:01.800 to the United States,

00:10:03.120 I believe Trump is right here

00:10:04.920 that China is going to have to sue for peace.

00:10:07.660 And we will get, at some form or fashion,

00:10:11.560 in theory, a trade agreement

00:10:13.540 that is fairer for America,

00:10:15.440 helps to protect American jobs,

00:10:17.560 and helps to allow American business

00:10:19.660 to more fairly compete with China.

00:10:22.300 What Trump has smartly done

00:10:24.360 is he has recognized now

00:10:26.460 that every other country is coming to the table

00:10:29.140 and that we now are going to be in a position

00:10:32.180 to negotiate better deals there too as well.

00:10:34.700 And here's what I would also just continue

00:10:37.640 to tell all of you.

00:10:39.180 I'm going to give you stock market updates

00:10:41.680 here and there.

00:10:42.660 I understand this is not CNBC.

00:10:44.960 This is not Fox Business.

00:10:46.680 But what I would encourage all of you to do

00:10:49.280 is recognize you don't buy and sell stocks,

00:10:53.060 or at least most of you should not,

00:10:54.840 on a day-to-day basis.

00:10:56.400 You shouldn't make emotional decisions

00:10:58.980 when it comes to your investments.

00:11:00.700 And the analogy that I have made

00:11:02.160 that I think is a really good one is your house.

00:11:04.140 If you are fortunate enough to own a home,

00:11:06.920 your home has a fluctuating value.

00:11:10.120 Any given day, it can be up or down,

00:11:12.660 depending on whether someone is interested

00:11:14.940 in buying your house or not.

00:11:16.740 You don't day trade homes

00:11:18.360 because you know that the home is the foundation.

00:11:23.040 You're not only owning an asset,

00:11:24.720 it's also where your family lives,

00:11:26.840 it's where you put your head down at night.

00:11:29.140 You're not typically going to be selling your home

00:11:33.540 and worried about the cost on a day-to-day basis,

00:11:37.080 week-to-week basis,

00:11:37.940 even month-to-month basis in an ideal scenario.

00:11:41.200 There are substantial costs associated with selling homes.

00:11:44.140 As a result, most people,

00:11:46.760 the best investment they ever make

00:11:48.520 is buying a home, living in that home,

00:11:51.240 and being able one day to profit

00:11:53.140 on the increased value of that home.

00:11:55.040 If you treat your stocks like you treat your home,

00:11:59.640 then you are going to be in a far better position.

00:12:02.500 And I'm not telling you to do something different

00:12:04.400 than what I do.

00:12:05.580 I buy S&P 500 in the DEX funds.

00:12:08.620 I put them in basically my bank accounts,

00:12:12.880 my investment accounts,

00:12:14.060 and I don't really touch them.

00:12:16.440 And over time,

00:12:17.840 you are going to make 8% or 9% a year on that,

00:12:21.140 and every 10 years, your money is going to double.

00:12:23.460 If you do that,

00:12:26.420 you are betting on American growth

00:12:29.060 and the exceptionalism

00:12:30.520 and the capitalistic dynamism

00:12:33.620 of the entire United States,

00:12:36.380 and you don't have to worry

00:12:38.480 about day-to-day market fluctuations in price.

00:12:42.040 That's what I would encourage you to do

00:12:43.640 because emotion often leads you to make poor choices.

00:12:48.160 And if you make poor choices,

00:12:49.520 then ultimately you and your family

00:12:51.900 end up bearing the brunt of those poor choices.

00:12:54.660 What do I mean by poor choices?

00:12:56.500 I mean, by and large,

00:12:58.320 what often happens is people sell

00:13:00.880 at the absolute bottom of the market,

00:13:03.120 and they buy at the absolute top of the market

00:13:06.480 if you just keep your assets.

00:13:08.600 And by the way, people say,

00:13:09.340 oh, Clay, you've got more.

00:13:10.340 So what?

00:13:11.440 I'm doing the same thing now

00:13:12.940 as I did a decade ago

00:13:14.640 when I had a negative net worth,

00:13:16.600 when I still had a lot of school loans

00:13:18.460 that I was paying off.

00:13:19.940 It doesn't matter whether you have $500 to invest

00:13:23.760 or $500 million to invest.

00:13:26.800 What I would be telling you is the exact same advice.

00:13:30.600 We'll take your calls.

00:13:31.600 We've got a couple of great guests coming your way.

00:13:33.280 Stephen Moore.

00:13:34.020 We're trying to get economic experts on the program.

00:13:37.000 Yesterday, we had Dr. Art Laffer

00:13:38.760 of the Laffer Curve,

00:13:40.520 one of the foremost American economists

00:13:42.300 in the entire country.

00:13:44.300 Come on and talk to all of you.

00:13:45.800 Today, Stephen Moore, one of Trump's top economic advisors,

00:13:49.880 will be with us.

00:13:51.600 Historically, Stephen Moore has been at 130,

00:13:54.740 one of the smartest guys on the right

00:13:57.420 in all of the world.

00:13:59.520 Douglas Murray is going to be on

00:14:00.900 to talk about his brand new book.

00:14:03.600 And those are our two guests

00:14:04.960 that are coming during the course of the day.

00:14:06.920 And as I said,

00:14:07.980 we will continue to update you

00:14:09.580 on Buck and Carrie Sexton Baby Watch

00:14:12.620 if there is more news to share with you there.

00:14:16.720 But in the meantime, I've got you.

00:14:17.980 I'll have you today and tomorrow at a minimum.

00:14:19.680 We'll see when Buck comes back as a new dad.

00:14:22.040 But we appreciate all of you hanging out with us

00:14:24.180 in what is a dynamic and rapidly evolving

00:14:27.680 media environment with so much news going on.

00:14:30.920 Again, biggest news story I would say right now

00:14:34.020 is that the budget resolution has passed the House,

00:14:37.380 which is going to allow the big, beautiful bill

00:14:40.780 that Trump favors to actually become law.

00:14:44.420 And that is going to preserve the tax cuts,

00:14:46.520 among other things,

00:14:47.780 as that continues to play itself out.

00:14:50.520 But I want to tell you,

00:14:52.100 everybody's got a fire extinguisher,

00:14:53.600 fire alarms, case there's a fire.

00:14:55.320 No brainer.

00:14:56.160 You might even have done some fire drills

00:14:57.960 before with your family,

00:14:59.240 especially if you have young kids.

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00:16:21.920 Making America Great Again isn't just one man.

00:16:26.340 It's many.

00:16:27.300 The Team 47 Podcast.

00:16:29.860 Sundays at noon Eastern in the Clay and Buck Podcast Feed.

00:16:33.320 Find it on the iHeartRadio app

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00:17:02.860 Listen to the Honest Talk Podcast on iHeartRadio

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00:17:09.060 Welcome back in.

00:17:10.260 Clay Travis, Buck Sexton Show.

00:17:12.420 Appreciate all of you hanging out with us.

00:17:15.660 Stock market soars yesterday.

00:17:17.380 One of the best days in the history of the markets.

00:17:21.080 And the ladies on The View,

00:17:22.660 not surprisingly,

00:17:24.520 had a series of inordinately stupid opinions,

00:17:28.780 even by the standard of inordinate stupidity

00:17:31.820 for which that show is widely known.

00:17:34.320 Sonny Hostin says Trump actually was engaging

00:17:38.700 in insider trading.

00:17:42.500 Here is Cut 12.

00:17:43.420 Trump tweeted out before this little pause.

00:17:46.920 He said,

00:17:47.260 this is a great time to buy.

00:17:49.260 And that's really a whistle to those billionaires

00:17:52.160 that can or people that have money

00:17:54.040 that can buy low

00:17:55.060 and then the stock market prices go up.

00:17:57.300 That's generally called insider trading.

00:17:59.300 And that would ordinarily trigger an investigation

00:18:01.900 by the Securities and Exchange Commission.

00:18:04.280 We know now that that's not probably going to happen

00:18:07.200 because all of these government agencies

00:18:08.980 have been destroyed and dismantled.

00:18:11.920 But someone with knowledge of an economic policy change

00:18:16.080 that would cause the markets to shoot back up

00:18:18.360 right before posting about how great a time it is to buy

00:18:22.200 right before the policy change happened

00:18:24.180 would certainly be guilty of insider trading.

00:18:27.920 I mean, first of all,

00:18:32.260 he's the president of the United States.

00:18:34.660 Everything that he says moves markets.

00:18:37.840 Secondly, you have to prove,

00:18:40.040 and we probably have a bunch of insider trading experts,

00:18:44.020 you have to prove that someone benefited

00:18:46.980 in some way from insider trading.

00:18:50.140 In other words, my understanding is the president,

00:18:54.320 unlike Hunter Biden,

00:18:55.660 actually has frozen all of his assets for some time.

00:19:01.140 One of the ways that presidents handle

00:19:03.080 these sorts of situations is by and large,

00:19:05.720 they say, hey, I'm not managing my stocks

00:19:08.180 on a day-to-day basis.

00:19:09.280 They're outside of my control.

00:19:11.200 They invest in index funds.

00:19:13.120 I mean, it's absolutely bonkers.

00:19:17.300 But yes, Sonny Hostin,

00:19:19.240 if it can be proven that Trump was given kickbacks

00:19:22.280 in order to give the 90-day pause on tariffs,

00:19:28.080 then yes, you're right.

00:19:29.040 This is drastic insider trading.

00:19:31.620 But crazily, Sonny Hostin

00:19:33.920 is not even the dumbest person on The View.

00:19:38.640 The View's Joy Behar says

00:19:41.360 that Trump is intentionally tanking the economy

00:19:44.640 for his billionaire buddies

00:19:47.040 so that he can make himself a dictator.

00:19:50.000 This is her theory.

00:19:51.220 This is what you're listening to.

00:19:52.520 And you might say, okay, well, why does this matter?

00:19:54.460 There are millions of people

00:19:55.600 that are listening to this show on a daily basis.

00:19:58.400 Here is Cut 13, Joy Behar,

00:20:01.360 with her theory about what's going on.

00:20:03.240 He's trying to destroy the country.

00:20:05.380 Now, why is he doing that?

00:20:06.800 So there's a couple of theories.

00:20:08.240 First of all, if he tanks the entire stock market,

00:20:11.600 that all his billionaire friends

00:20:13.360 can swoop in and buy everything low.

00:20:15.140 That's not an original idea.

00:20:16.580 That's Hakeem Jeffries said that.

00:20:18.340 And in fact, today on Truth Social,

00:20:20.560 Trump wrote, a great time to buy.

00:20:24.320 The other theory is from James Carvel,

00:20:26.800 which I think is interesting,

00:20:27.900 that he wants to soak such instability and chaos

00:20:30.900 to consolidate power for himself

00:20:32.740 so that people start to really go nuts.

00:20:35.120 People are starting to get mad.

00:20:36.760 How mad will people get?

00:20:38.160 And how broke will people get?

00:20:39.880 And how many jobs will be lost?

00:20:41.660 And then he can say,

00:20:42.800 well, there's too much chaos,

00:20:43.740 and now we're going to have martial law in this country,

00:20:45.780 and he becomes a dictator.

00:20:47.200 Okay.

00:20:48.560 This is bonkers.

00:20:49.760 First of all, Trump has been saying

00:20:51.520 it's a great time to buy in America for a long time.

00:20:55.740 He's a pro-American leader.

00:20:57.720 But the billionaire buddies thing

00:20:59.820 doesn't even make sense, okay?

00:21:01.640 Do you know where most billionaires have their assets?

00:21:06.720 The stock market.

00:21:08.400 Whatever losses are occurring on paper

00:21:11.460 are drastically higher for billionaires

00:21:14.780 than they are for people who are not billionaires.

00:21:18.320 It doesn't make sense that Trump would allow

00:21:21.660 his billionaire buddies to make way more money

00:21:25.380 by driving down the prices of their assets.

00:21:29.080 Again, these are crazy town talks,

00:21:32.860 and that James Carville says,

00:21:35.120 hey, what they're trying to do

00:21:36.540 is actually create dictator opportunities for Trump.

00:21:41.000 Again, this is crazy town talk.

00:21:44.860 And I've said this before,

00:21:45.660 but I do think it bears repeating.

00:21:47.860 If Trump truly wanted to be a dictator,

00:21:51.340 let's pretend that he called me and he said,

00:21:53.280 Clay, what should I do to become a dictator?

00:21:56.700 The time when Trump had the most dictatorial powers,

00:22:01.820 basically of any president in our lives,

00:22:04.720 except for George W. Bush right after 9-11,

00:22:07.700 do you know when it was?

00:22:08.780 When COVID happened.

00:22:10.760 Do you know what Trump did?

00:22:12.580 He allowed governors to make decisions in their states,

00:22:16.060 and he allowed individual mayors

00:22:18.500 to make decisions in their cities.

00:22:20.540 If anything,

00:22:22.000 if you were going to criticize Trump,

00:22:24.440 it would actually be for during COVID

00:22:27.540 not taking more executive authority

00:22:30.940 and giving too much power back to the states

00:22:34.500 because the governors of California and New York,

00:22:37.600 for instance,

00:22:38.620 made disastrous decisions for most of their citizens

00:22:42.680 because Trump deferred to the principles of federalism.

00:22:46.620 Do you know who then took over

00:22:48.640 massive amounts of power

00:22:50.660 and tried to regulate you to the ends of the earth?

00:22:54.940 Joe Biden.

00:22:55.840 When he said,

00:22:56.920 if you didn't get the COVID shot,

00:22:58.940 that you could be fired from your job.

00:23:02.060 Do you all remember that?

00:23:03.100 I bet most of you do.

00:23:05.100 The only reason that didn't become law

00:23:07.100 was because the Supreme Court said

00:23:09.060 that Joe Biden didn't have the power to do it.

00:23:11.780 Biden is the one

00:23:13.100 who actually took advantage of COVID

00:23:15.700 to implement dictatorial powers.

00:23:18.500 Remember,

00:23:18.840 we're going to have a winter of death.

00:23:21.280 Remember when Joe Biden said

00:23:22.360 his patience was running thin

00:23:23.860 if you weren't getting the COVID shot?

00:23:26.320 I do.

00:23:27.400 And again,

00:23:28.780 this is why the argument

00:23:29.960 that Trump wants to be a dictator

00:23:31.440 and authoritarian

00:23:32.100 is absolutely bonkers.

00:23:34.220 Okay.

00:23:34.580 Some of you guys want to weigh in.

00:23:35.920 I told you I'd take some calls.

00:23:37.260 800.

00:23:38.220 You can give us a call.

00:23:39.280 282-2882.

00:23:41.240 Sam in Milwaukee,

00:23:42.620 what you got for us?

00:23:44.140 All right.

00:23:44.420 Thanks for taking my call.

00:23:45.220 I wanted to say

00:23:46.280 I actually support Trump's tariffs

00:23:48.760 and I say this as somebody

00:23:50.160 who's lucky to be well off.

00:23:52.520 My portfolio went down,

00:23:54.000 you know,

00:23:54.400 by six figures

00:23:55.280 over the last few days.

00:23:56.380 But I think it's good for the country

00:23:58.620 and it's good for blue-collar working people.

00:24:01.400 And it's the people

00:24:02.360 who have a lot of money

00:24:04.300 in the stock market

00:24:05.280 and who profited from outsourcing

00:24:07.080 who are complaining.

00:24:09.160 The other thing I wanted to ask about

00:24:10.720 is another way

00:24:11.840 to bring jobs back to the U.S.

00:24:14.300 is what do you guys think

00:24:15.320 about replacing

00:24:16.040 minimum wage

00:24:18.080 with an earned income tax credit?

00:24:19.840 Because, you know,

00:24:20.980 China has an unfair advantage.

00:24:22.800 They treat their people like slaves.

00:24:24.280 They don't have to adhere

00:24:25.000 to the same

00:24:25.740 safety and environmental regulations.

00:24:30.080 Allowing free market

00:24:31.780 to dictate wage

00:24:33.100 and then redistributing

00:24:34.040 as much or as little wealth

00:24:35.240 as you want

00:24:35.920 with earned income tax credit

00:24:38.120 would avoid that

00:24:39.320 as well as encourage people to work.

00:24:40.600 Thanks.

00:24:41.460 Thank you for the call.

00:24:42.860 We're coming up on April 15th.

00:24:45.800 We have a situation

00:24:47.440 where less than half

00:24:49.060 of Americans

00:24:50.320 actually pay income taxes.

00:24:52.300 Now, to the caller's point,

00:24:53.600 a lot of people pay payroll taxes

00:24:55.980 if you have a job.

00:24:58.660 And the biggest challenge

00:25:00.360 that we have

00:25:01.220 on a structural level

00:25:02.520 with China

00:25:03.140 is what he just referenced.

00:25:05.580 The average Chinese worker

00:25:07.500 makes a fraction

00:25:09.000 of what the average

00:25:10.240 American worker makes.

00:25:12.160 And by the way,

00:25:12.620 people in China

00:25:13.300 make more money

00:25:13.980 than people in Vietnam

00:25:14.980 or Cambodia.

00:25:16.420 And so if you're producing

00:25:17.540 a product,

00:25:18.920 you can have wages

00:25:20.380 that would be considered

00:25:21.800 below slave wages

00:25:23.380 in the United States

00:25:24.880 to produce products.

00:25:26.900 I mean, Nike is a good example.

00:25:28.700 This is why I went after

00:25:29.740 the guys in the NBA

00:25:30.760 so aggressively

00:25:31.660 because they're very happy

00:25:34.060 to rip America to shreds.

00:25:36.240 They never point out

00:25:37.540 that China, for instance,

00:25:39.880 was making Nike shoes

00:25:41.960 back in the day

00:25:42.820 with legitimate

00:25:44.160 Chinese slave labor.

00:25:46.600 So the modern day

00:25:47.860 slave masters

00:25:48.940 were actually NBA athletes

00:25:51.100 who were profiting

00:25:52.100 making tens of millions

00:25:53.260 of dollars

00:25:53.960 off of Nike shoes

00:25:55.420 being produced by,

00:25:57.120 at least in Xinjiang province,

00:25:58.800 people who were

00:25:59.700 effectively slaves.

00:26:01.060 And China was bragging

00:26:02.480 about the fact

00:26:03.140 that the cotton

00:26:03.740 to make many of these shoes

00:26:05.080 was coming from

00:26:06.100 basically slave labor

00:26:07.680 production.

00:26:09.740 Now, Nike has since

00:26:11.020 pulled some of its production

00:26:12.280 out of China.

00:26:13.080 They moved it to the Philippines.

00:26:14.180 They didn't do that

00:26:14.780 because they're amazingly

00:26:16.140 great human rights advocates.

00:26:17.920 They did it because

00:26:18.880 it was way cheaper

00:26:20.120 to make shoes

00:26:20.740 in the Philippines

00:26:21.420 because wages

00:26:22.140 went up in China

00:26:23.100 as China became

00:26:24.200 a more industrialized country

00:26:25.540 and it was cheaper

00:26:26.120 to go elsewhere.

00:26:27.120 And this is one

00:26:27.960 of the biggest challenges

00:26:29.060 in general,

00:26:29.820 about production

00:26:31.660 of goods

00:26:32.760 is that

00:26:34.240 it is

00:26:35.020 quite a lot cheaper

00:26:36.160 to make goods

00:26:37.320 in foreign countries

00:26:39.100 where they basically

00:26:40.460 have what we would

00:26:41.640 consider in the United States

00:26:42.840 to be slave labor wages

00:26:44.320 in places like Vietnam

00:26:46.360 and Cambodia.

00:26:47.280 And what China has done

00:26:48.380 is they have recognized

00:26:50.360 that their overall

00:26:51.920 cheating

00:26:52.380 on the

00:26:53.320 world trade stage,

00:26:55.400 even in China,

00:26:56.760 has been caught

00:26:58.040 on some level.

00:26:59.260 But they now have

00:26:59.900 moved production

00:27:00.600 to other countries,

00:27:01.860 which is why

00:27:02.620 figuring out

00:27:03.800 how to rectify

00:27:04.840 all of their cheating

00:27:06.020 when it comes to

00:27:06.880 global trade

00:27:07.600 is so complicated.

00:27:09.100 James in Roanoke,

00:27:10.720 Virginia,

00:27:11.220 what you got for us?

00:27:13.220 Well,

00:27:13.480 Mr. Travis,

00:27:14.620 thanks for taking my call.

00:27:15.940 Long-time listener

00:27:16.740 since the mid-80s.

00:27:19.260 I have a question

00:27:20.600 that I'm really

00:27:21.560 struggling with

00:27:22.400 and I get frustrated

00:27:24.760 when I hear people

00:27:26.040 say that these

00:27:27.700 illegals

00:27:28.400 that are being

00:27:29.180 deported

00:27:29.800 have a right

00:27:31.640 to a trial.

00:27:32.960 And I've always

00:27:33.600 thought that

00:27:34.760 illegals

00:27:35.740 don't have any

00:27:36.660 rights just based

00:27:37.900 on being illegals.

00:27:39.940 And so I was wondering

00:27:40.540 if you can help

00:27:41.060 with that, sir.

00:27:41.980 Well, I mean,

00:27:42.580 yes, that's an argument

00:27:43.520 that's going on right now,

00:27:44.780 for instance,

00:27:45.380 with the deportation

00:27:47.040 of Venezuelan

00:27:48.320 illegals.

00:27:49.260 And honestly,

00:27:50.100 it's been a huge debate

00:27:51.380 that has gone to the

00:27:52.100 Supreme Court

00:27:52.640 several different times.

00:27:53.600 I don't want to sound

00:27:54.140 like a lawyer nerd,

00:27:55.560 but this is one reason

00:27:57.900 why Guantanamo exists.

00:28:00.160 Because if you don't

00:28:01.900 bring prisoners

00:28:03.500 into the United States,

00:28:05.420 and Guantanamo

00:28:06.320 initially was created

00:28:07.540 for 9-11 prisoners,

00:28:09.820 their rights

00:28:10.580 as enemy combatants

00:28:12.080 are different

00:28:13.220 than the rights

00:28:14.160 of someone

00:28:14.880 who is being

00:28:16.200 prosecuted

00:28:16.780 in American court.

00:28:18.020 And again,

00:28:18.580 this gets really

00:28:19.540 far down

00:28:20.260 into the weeds

00:28:21.020 on exactly

00:28:22.360 what due process

00:28:23.540 rights exist.

00:28:25.280 The argument here

00:28:26.380 is that because

00:28:27.280 they are here illegally,

00:28:29.040 they have violated

00:28:30.120 American law,

00:28:31.920 and therefore

00:28:32.600 they are not subject

00:28:34.020 to the same

00:28:34.820 due process rights

00:28:35.780 that you or me

00:28:36.560 or any other

00:28:37.220 American citizen

00:28:38.020 would be.

00:28:39.080 And on the enemy

00:28:39.900 combatant front,

00:28:40.920 which is another angle

00:28:42.060 where they are trying

00:28:42.980 to analyze this,

00:28:44.980 if you were

00:28:46.020 seized in a foreign

00:28:47.800 country,

00:28:48.760 the question of

00:28:49.840 who exactly

00:28:50.640 is an enemy

00:28:51.200 combatant

00:28:51.780 is actually one

00:28:52.700 that is very

00:28:53.160 complicated inside

00:28:54.100 of the law.

00:28:54.860 So the long

00:28:56.120 way around

00:28:56.780 the question

00:28:57.280 is I think

00:28:58.300 that the Trump

00:28:59.320 administration

00:28:59.840 is behaving

00:29:00.960 appropriately

00:29:01.980 when it comes

00:29:03.140 to these

00:29:03.660 individuals.

00:29:04.620 The courts

00:29:05.380 are going

00:29:05.920 to determine

00:29:06.640 exactly how

00:29:07.540 to classify

00:29:08.280 someone who

00:29:08.940 is here

00:29:09.360 in the United

00:29:10.020 States

00:29:10.400 physically present

00:29:11.420 but does not

00:29:12.600 have the legal

00:29:13.400 right to be here.

00:29:15.040 And so

00:29:15.580 I am of the

00:29:16.680 opinion that the

00:29:17.320 Trump administration

00:29:17.880 has behaved

00:29:18.940 lawfully.

00:29:19.580 I think the

00:29:20.160 Supreme Court

00:29:20.700 will agree.

00:29:22.000 Trump is on a

00:29:22.680 winning streak.

00:29:23.280 I think he's won

00:29:23.740 five straight cases

00:29:24.780 in front of the

00:29:25.420 Supreme Court

00:29:25.980 but that is the

00:29:27.620 complication that is

00:29:28.520 associated with it.

00:29:29.420 Thank you for

00:29:29.780 listening for a long

00:29:30.500 time and thank you

00:29:31.100 for calling.

00:29:33.460 Carol in

00:29:34.400 Montana,

00:29:36.120 you wanted to

00:29:36.580 weigh in on the

00:29:37.200 view.

00:29:37.480 By the way,

00:29:38.440 public information

00:29:39.320 is not insider

00:29:40.240 trading.

00:29:41.200 Another important

00:29:42.180 aspect here,

00:29:43.520 when you say

00:29:44.340 something public,

00:29:45.380 insider information

00:29:46.380 typically has to

00:29:47.300 be something that

00:29:48.100 others do not

00:29:49.140 know.

00:29:49.800 Trump saying

00:29:50.460 now is a good

00:29:51.240 time to buy is

00:29:52.400 immediately public,

00:29:54.060 therefore everyone

00:29:55.040 can act upon it.

00:29:56.740 Insider trading

00:29:57.680 would require that

00:29:59.200 Trump called

00:30:00.480 friends and said,

00:30:02.520 hey, I'm about to

00:30:03.940 pause the 90-day

00:30:05.800 issue here.

00:30:08.040 I'm about to issue

00:30:09.100 a 90-day tariff

00:30:10.040 pause.

00:30:10.580 You should all go

00:30:11.620 buy right now.

00:30:12.440 That did not seem

00:30:14.540 to occur, at least

00:30:15.800 based on my

00:30:16.660 watching of the

00:30:17.360 market, because the

00:30:18.540 market did not

00:30:19.440 pop until Trump

00:30:21.340 officially made the

00:30:22.480 statement on

00:30:23.240 Truth Social that

00:30:24.380 he was pausing

00:30:25.340 the 90 days.

00:30:26.560 So public comments

00:30:27.760 by their very

00:30:28.700 nature are not

00:30:30.000 insider trading

00:30:31.000 because they are

00:30:31.860 immediately public

00:30:32.720 for everyone.

00:30:33.600 But Carol in

00:30:34.760 Montana, I'll get

00:30:36.120 to Carol in

00:30:36.620 Montana when we

00:30:37.100 come back.

00:30:37.600 Pause for that

00:30:38.100 because I need to

00:30:38.520 do this read.

00:30:39.560 But we'll get to

00:30:40.220 Carol in Montana.

00:30:41.080 I'll get to Greg

00:30:41.680 in Sioux Falls and

00:30:42.760 Jesse in Aurora,

00:30:43.720 Colorado, a lot of

00:30:44.520 you lining up.

00:30:45.800 If you're a good

00:30:46.460 gun owner, you need

00:30:47.780 to know about the

00:30:48.380 United States

00:30:48.960 Concealed Carry

00:30:49.920 Association.

00:30:50.880 They're all about

00:30:51.320 protecting your

00:30:51.920 rights to allowing

00:30:53.300 you to defend

00:30:54.360 yourself.

00:30:54.980 Look, I'm a

00:30:55.940 member, but I

00:30:56.800 have done, and

00:30:57.760 this is important,

00:30:58.960 I have done a lot

00:31:00.300 of criminal defense

00:31:01.240 cases over the

00:31:02.160 years.

00:31:02.820 In fact, I've

00:31:03.640 even gone and

00:31:04.640 gotten my

00:31:05.280 continuing legal

00:31:06.220 education on what

00:31:07.820 is the difference

00:31:08.500 between a

00:31:09.160 good shoot, that

00:31:10.340 is one that is

00:31:11.040 legal, and a

00:31:12.120 bad shoot, that

00:31:12.940 is one that is

00:31:13.680 illegal, and often

00:31:14.940 it can come down

00:31:16.220 to very minuscule

00:31:17.740 factual analysis.

00:31:19.020 You just heard me

00:31:19.560 talking about, for

00:31:20.320 instance, what is and

00:31:21.360 what is not an

00:31:22.640 illegal alien.

00:31:23.600 What due process

00:31:24.400 rights are in

00:31:25.280 play.

00:31:25.840 The law can be

00:31:26.600 very complicated.

00:31:27.680 If you are

00:31:28.800 defending yourself

00:31:29.940 from someone who

00:31:31.660 is trying to do

00:31:32.620 you harm, but

00:31:34.200 somehow you end

00:31:35.500 up being

00:31:35.980 prosecuted, you

00:31:37.480 want to know

00:31:38.120 that you've got

00:31:38.760 somebody who

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00:32:35.060 One more time, I

00:32:35.900 want you to go check

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00:32:38.300 I think it's

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00:32:52.220 Sometimes all you

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00:33:06.360 News that is out

00:33:08.140 there, inflation

00:33:09.160 softening down to

00:33:10.940 2.4%, the lowest

00:33:13.080 rate in four years.

00:33:14.920 Prices actually went

00:33:16.280 down 0.1% since

00:33:19.060 the last reading.

00:33:21.000 Trump has raised

00:33:22.100 tariffs to 145%

00:33:25.340 on China.

00:33:26.980 and we have a

00:33:29.020 budget resolution

00:33:30.120 that has passed

00:33:31.100 the House 216 to

00:33:32.540 214, which will

00:33:34.200 lead to a tax cut.

00:33:35.780 The big, beautiful

00:33:36.460 bill, as Trump is

00:33:37.680 calling it, also

00:33:38.780 will add more for

00:33:40.160 border security.

00:33:41.720 Many different

00:33:42.520 moving parts there.

00:33:43.920 Stock market back

00:33:44.760 down today after

00:33:46.520 one of the biggest

00:33:47.760 days in the history

00:33:49.180 of stock market

00:33:50.800 rallies.

00:33:51.440 Yesterday, we will

00:33:53.080 dive into that a bit

00:33:54.460 more, but we bring

00:33:55.760 on now, we've been

00:33:56.480 decided, Buck and

00:33:57.820 I did, a while back

00:33:59.220 as the tariff

00:34:00.060 process has played

00:34:01.160 itself out.

00:34:02.120 Let's bring on

00:34:03.180 people with strong

00:34:05.060 economic backgrounds

00:34:06.220 to talk with all of

00:34:07.340 you.

00:34:07.660 Yesterday, we had

00:34:08.340 Art Laffer on.

00:34:09.720 At the same time,

00:34:10.940 today, we have on

00:34:11.600 Stephen Moore,

00:34:12.720 President Trump's

00:34:13.640 former senior

00:34:14.740 economic advisor.

00:34:16.260 He is right now

00:34:17.320 the co-founder of

00:34:19.100 Committee to

00:34:20.100 Unleash

00:34:20.800 Prosperity.

00:34:21.860 and we bring

00:34:23.100 him in now.

00:34:24.260 Stephen, I appreciate

00:34:24.980 you making the time

00:34:25.680 for us.

00:34:26.080 You've been on, it's

00:34:26.920 been a couple of

00:34:27.460 years since you were

00:34:28.220 on with us last.

00:34:29.840 What do you think

00:34:30.880 from an economic

00:34:31.940 perspective, the

00:34:33.480 millions of people

00:34:34.620 listening to us

00:34:35.920 right now should know

00:34:38.440 about what President

00:34:39.680 Trump is doing and

00:34:41.020 its impact?

00:34:42.360 Well, Clay, thanks so

00:34:43.100 much for having me.

00:34:43.960 And by the way, how

00:34:45.740 cool is that?

00:34:46.380 You had Art Laffer on,

00:34:47.380 the most famous

00:34:48.020 economist in the

00:34:48.660 world yesterday.

00:34:50.000 Not bad.

00:34:50.640 Kind of cool.

00:34:51.100 Yeah, that's pretty

00:34:52.300 cool.

00:34:52.780 And I have to say

00:34:53.740 that he and I wrote

00:34:54.800 a piece in the

00:34:55.300 Wall Street Journal

00:34:55.940 on Tuesday urging

00:34:58.120 Trump to, you know,

00:34:59.340 let's just offer

00:35:00.600 these countries zero

00:35:02.440 tariffs and see if,

00:35:03.400 you know, if they'll

00:35:04.040 lower their tariffs

00:35:05.440 to zero, we'd lower

00:35:06.300 ours.

00:35:07.480 And I think that was

00:35:08.140 the impetus for Trump

00:35:09.000 putting this proposal

00:35:10.040 on the table, which I

00:35:11.600 thought was fantastic.

00:35:13.280 You're right.

00:35:14.120 Yesterday was the

00:35:15.180 biggest point

00:35:16.720 increase in the Dow

00:35:17.880 Jones in the history

00:35:18.840 of the stock market.

00:35:19.700 Now it's down

00:35:20.980 today, but it's

00:35:22.880 not down nearly as

00:35:23.760 much as it was up

00:35:24.560 yesterday.

00:35:25.220 And then look, this is

00:35:26.260 going to be a topsy-turvy

00:35:27.380 market for the next

00:35:28.820 number of months until

00:35:29.720 we get this settled.

00:35:30.840 But I got to tell you,

00:35:31.980 having worked with

00:35:32.740 Donald Trump and

00:35:33.900 seen him in action

00:35:35.060 up front and personal,

00:35:35.980 this guy is three

00:35:37.560 steps ahead of

00:35:38.360 everybody else on the

00:35:39.160 chessboard.

00:35:40.240 He is a master

00:35:40.980 negotiator.

00:35:41.940 He knows what he's

00:35:42.760 doing.

00:35:43.940 And in the end, I

00:35:45.280 think, well, my first

00:35:47.100 advice to people just

00:35:48.060 now would be a

00:35:49.160 terrible time to

00:35:49.780 sell.

00:35:50.240 You never want to

00:35:50.860 sell when stocks

00:35:53.660 have been falling.

00:35:54.760 That's violating the

00:35:56.040 first rule of stock

00:35:58.520 investing.

00:35:59.020 You want to buy low

00:35:59.840 and sell high, but

00:36:00.940 sometimes people get

00:36:01.780 panicked.

00:36:03.800 That's number one.

00:36:04.600 Number two, I believe

00:36:05.960 what Trump is trying to

00:36:07.080 do from an economic

00:36:08.200 standpoint is his

00:36:10.800 strategy is to

00:36:12.260 isolate the bad

00:36:13.920 actor, the new

00:36:15.960 Soviet Union of

00:36:18.460 the world, and

00:36:19.180 that is China.

00:36:19.940 China is a

00:36:21.520 country that is

00:36:22.620 a national

00:36:24.280 security and

00:36:25.600 economic security

00:36:26.780 threat to the

00:36:27.580 United States, as I

00:36:28.580 think they are, to

00:36:29.340 the free world.

00:36:31.020 And so what he's

00:36:31.580 trying to do, I

00:36:32.360 think, is unite the

00:36:33.560 rest of the world

00:36:34.460 against China, a

00:36:35.920 kind of decouple

00:36:36.920 from them, because

00:36:38.600 they are such a

00:36:40.480 threat.

00:36:41.140 And I think that

00:36:41.860 strategy can work,

00:36:42.900 but we're going to

00:36:43.440 find out.

00:36:44.420 We're going to

00:36:44.880 really see who

00:36:46.500 our friends and

00:36:47.500 allies are and

00:36:48.820 who are our

00:36:49.240 enemies.

00:36:49.980 Where will

00:36:50.760 Europe be?

00:36:51.520 Will they stand

00:36:52.160 with us?

00:36:52.580 What about

00:36:52.900 Britain?

00:36:53.300 Will they stand

00:36:53.880 with us?

00:36:54.200 What about

00:36:54.540 Japan?

00:36:55.100 What about

00:36:55.400 Canada?

00:36:56.320 We need to

00:36:57.260 unite.

00:36:57.940 Trump is the

00:36:58.600 guy to do it,

00:36:59.960 but we'll see.

00:37:01.840 Okay, so let's

00:37:02.840 dive into this.

00:37:03.580 You mentioned

00:37:03.980 people who own

00:37:05.080 stocks right now,

00:37:06.740 which is a huge

00:37:07.240 percentage of our

00:37:09.380 audience out there,

00:37:10.380 either in pensions,

00:37:12.280 401ks, or people

00:37:13.820 buying and selling

00:37:14.660 individual stocks.

00:37:16.100 What would you

00:37:16.620 tell people who

00:37:17.440 are nervous,

00:37:18.580 apprehensive, maybe

00:37:20.500 pay attention to

00:37:21.560 stock prices only

00:37:22.720 when they're really

00:37:23.460 kind of popping in

00:37:24.580 one way or the

00:37:25.440 other?

00:37:26.240 How should they

00:37:27.480 handle emotional

00:37:29.180 reactions to

00:37:30.440 valuations on the

00:37:31.980 stock market from

00:37:32.760 your perspective as

00:37:34.000 a highly trained,

00:37:35.800 highly successful

00:37:37.040 economist?

00:37:38.440 Well, I'm an

00:37:39.380 economist.

00:37:39.780 I'm not a

00:37:40.480 financial analyst,

00:37:41.760 and sometimes

00:37:42.340 economists are

00:37:43.660 not great stock

00:37:44.380 pickers.

00:37:44.800 One of the

00:37:45.060 greatest economists

00:37:46.560 who ever lived was

00:37:47.720 Milton Friedman, and

00:37:48.420 he was terrible at

00:37:49.320 stock investing.

00:37:51.400 So I'll say that as

00:37:53.160 a prelude to, but

00:37:55.160 the advice I'm going

00:37:56.060 to give to your

00:37:57.260 listeners is really

00:37:58.260 pretty straightforward,

00:37:59.220 and I think almost

00:37:59.900 every financial

00:38:01.300 analyst would agree

00:38:02.120 with me.

00:38:02.940 It's called stocks

00:38:04.100 for the long run.

00:38:05.440 Yeah.

00:38:05.600 So in other words,

00:38:06.280 if you're investing

00:38:07.300 for, you know, for

00:38:09.140 returns five years from

00:38:10.480 now, 10 years from

00:38:11.180 now, 20 years from

00:38:12.020 now, depending on

00:38:12.640 what your age is, you

00:38:13.660 want to be in the

00:38:14.600 American stock market.

00:38:15.880 It goes up.

00:38:16.840 It goes up.

00:38:17.380 Now, that doesn't

00:38:18.000 mean that you get

00:38:19.140 these kind of

00:38:19.960 downturns, but the

00:38:21.700 real rate of return

00:38:22.860 of the U.S.

00:38:23.480 stock market since

00:38:24.360 the New York Stock

00:38:25.260 Exchange opened its

00:38:26.240 doors is like 7%.

00:38:27.840 Yep.

00:38:28.420 So what I'm saying

00:38:29.940 is if you don't have

00:38:31.260 to take your money

00:38:31.920 out, if you're not

00:38:32.560 cash squeezed right

00:38:33.760 now, keep it in the

00:38:34.780 market because it's

00:38:35.520 going to do well over

00:38:36.320 time.

00:38:36.700 And again, I'm not

00:38:37.400 saying a year from

00:38:38.100 now.

00:38:38.540 Maybe a year from

00:38:39.180 now, it may be a

00:38:40.440 little bit lower.

00:38:41.720 What I'm saying is I

00:38:42.420 feel very, very

00:38:43.740 strongly that three

00:38:45.160 years from now, five

00:38:46.240 years from now, you're

00:38:47.500 going to get a nice

00:38:48.060 return on your money.

00:38:49.420 And if anything, I'd be

00:38:50.680 buying stock right now,

00:38:51.860 not selling it.

00:38:53.220 OK, let's go into

00:38:53.960 China in particular,

00:38:55.100 because this is

00:38:56.000 obviously now the

00:38:57.080 focus based on the

00:38:58.220 way the president has

00:38:59.260 responded with

00:39:00.060 yesterday's news.

00:39:01.180 He really has

00:39:02.200 isolated China.

00:39:03.440 Tariffs up now to

00:39:04.860 145% on China.

00:39:07.700 from your perspective,

00:39:09.420 what does a fair

00:39:10.840 economic deal with

00:39:12.060 China look like?

00:39:14.260 Well, China cheats.

00:39:16.140 They steal.

00:39:17.180 They steal our

00:39:18.180 intellectual property.

00:39:19.600 They steal our

00:39:20.340 patents.

00:39:21.860 It is a very

00:39:23.420 predatory nation.

00:39:25.420 So I think we have to

00:39:27.200 be very tough with

00:39:27.920 China.

00:39:28.660 And by the way, you're

00:39:29.300 talking to a guy who's a

00:39:30.040 free trader.

00:39:30.760 You know, I like free

00:39:32.560 trade.

00:39:32.920 I'm not a big fan of

00:39:34.160 tariffs.

00:39:34.520 I agree with 80% of

00:39:36.060 what Trump is doing.

00:39:37.000 I'm not a huge fan of

00:39:38.100 tariffs.

00:39:38.720 My only the only thing

00:39:39.940 I would fault Trump on

00:39:41.340 is that I think we

00:39:42.580 should you know, why is

00:39:43.780 he going after Canada

00:39:44.780 and some of our allies?

00:39:46.160 We really have to focus

00:39:47.360 on China.

00:39:47.860 And that I think that's

00:39:48.780 where he is right now.

00:39:50.660 So that that's that's

00:39:53.080 the issue.

00:39:53.520 I mean, come on.

00:39:54.120 China's on the verge of

00:39:55.680 possibly invading

00:39:57.000 Taiwan.

00:39:57.840 They're building up their

00:39:58.880 military in a very

00:40:00.060 aggressive way.

00:40:01.680 They don't their tariffs

00:40:03.200 are three to four times

00:40:05.100 higher than ours are.

00:40:06.280 And I want to make sure

00:40:07.300 that your listeners

00:40:08.060 understand this.

00:40:09.520 You know, I do a lot of

00:40:10.500 I'm doing like the BBC.

00:40:11.840 I do a lot of like media

00:40:13.560 and like Europe and

00:40:15.380 Japan.

00:40:16.560 You know, they're

00:40:16.900 interested in what

00:40:17.280 Trump's going to do.

00:40:18.040 And they're so self

00:40:19.100 and they're self

00:40:20.260 righteous.

00:40:20.660 And they're they're

00:40:21.660 like, why is Trump

00:40:22.720 doing this?

00:40:23.260 He's starting starting a

00:40:24.320 trade war.

00:40:25.120 And I said, wait a

00:40:26.000 minute.

00:40:26.080 What are you people

00:40:26.600 talking about?

00:40:27.580 We have the lowest

00:40:28.460 tariffs in the world.

00:40:30.260 Their their tariffs are

00:40:31.320 higher than ours.

00:40:32.200 So how can they say

00:40:33.240 we're starting a trade

00:40:34.420 war?

00:40:35.380 No, it's a fantastic

00:40:36.600 question.

00:40:37.120 And when we've been

00:40:37.620 asking on this program

00:40:38.780 for some time.

00:40:39.880 OK, so you in general

00:40:41.140 are a free trader.

00:40:42.780 There is a tension

00:40:44.140 and it certainly has

00:40:45.520 been, I think,

00:40:47.200 exposed to some

00:40:48.240 degree between, say,

00:40:49.400 Elon Musk, who is

00:40:50.440 more of a free trader

00:40:51.480 than not.

00:40:52.100 Yeah.

00:40:52.420 And Peter Navarro, who

00:40:53.420 is very much not a free

00:40:54.740 trader.

00:40:55.460 So here is the

00:40:56.920 challenge so far as I

00:40:58.140 can see it is you

00:40:59.000 kind of have a

00:41:00.360 schism, for lack

00:41:01.840 of a better way

00:41:02.480 to describe it.

00:41:03.980 What Trump is

00:41:04.700 advocating for on

00:41:05.800 one hand is free

00:41:06.780 trade.

00:41:07.160 And yesterday, talking

00:41:08.220 with Art Laffer, I

00:41:09.020 said free trade with

00:41:10.100 Europe can make sense.

00:41:11.220 Japan, South Korea,

00:41:12.700 so-called good actors,

00:41:14.120 right?

00:41:14.360 For lack of a better

00:41:15.060 way to describe it.

00:41:15.860 Right.

00:41:16.200 Then there are, I

00:41:17.280 think it's fair to say

00:41:18.000 bad actors in China

00:41:19.160 would be the most

00:41:19.860 prominent and powerful

00:41:20.820 among them.

00:41:22.200 How do you balance the

00:41:23.520 free trade perspectives

00:41:24.720 with a country that is

00:41:26.220 not committed to free

00:41:27.320 trade and end up with

00:41:29.280 a deal that makes

00:41:30.340 sense across the board

00:41:31.680 from your perspective?

00:41:33.420 Well, that's a great

00:41:34.060 question.

00:41:34.740 And I'm going to give

00:41:35.740 you a kind of historical

00:41:36.900 parallel.

00:41:38.140 You know, in the 1930s,

00:41:39.680 you know, we were a

00:41:40.300 pretty free trade country

00:41:41.580 and we were trading

00:41:43.300 with Japan.

00:41:44.260 You know, we almost

00:41:45.860 literally sold them the

00:41:47.440 lead and the steel that

00:41:48.420 they used for the bombs

00:41:49.500 that they dropped on

00:41:50.400 Pearl Harbor.

00:41:51.600 So that was kind of a

00:41:53.000 dumb thing to do.

00:41:54.200 No doubt.

00:41:54.820 Do we really want to do

00:41:56.300 that again with China?

00:41:57.140 I say no.

00:41:58.700 I think we need to

00:41:59.640 really be very cautious

00:42:00.820 about China.

00:42:02.800 I also like and by the

00:42:04.480 way, Trump has changed

00:42:05.420 my mind a little bit on

00:42:06.700 this stuff because I've

00:42:07.640 watched him in action.

00:42:09.080 I used to be like a

00:42:10.300 unilateral free trader.

00:42:11.360 We should have low

00:42:11.980 tariffs no matter what

00:42:12.800 other countries do.

00:42:13.740 I no longer believe that.

00:42:15.180 I think Trump is right

00:42:16.220 that it look.

00:42:17.660 I like this idea of

00:42:19.060 reciprocity.

00:42:19.920 If you're going to hit

00:42:20.600 out if you're going to

00:42:21.260 hit us in the nose with a

00:42:22.420 20 percent tariff, you

00:42:23.560 know what?

00:42:24.120 We're going to hit you

00:42:24.860 in the nose and if you

00:42:26.020 keep it up, you know,

00:42:26.920 we're going to ratchet

00:42:27.760 it.

00:42:28.420 I think at the end of

00:42:29.260 the day, I really

00:42:30.800 believe this, that Trump

00:42:32.400 is going to force these

00:42:33.460 other countries to play

00:42:35.180 by the rules, create a

00:42:36.240 level playing field that

00:42:37.460 benefits everyone.

00:42:39.280 OK, we're talking with

00:42:40.260 Stephen Moore, Trump

00:42:41.440 economic advisor, very

00:42:43.100 successful economist.

00:42:44.260 Let me ask you this

00:42:44.820 question.

00:42:45.260 Big picture.

00:42:46.640 I'm sure you remember

00:42:47.800 this well.

00:42:48.420 I was a young guy at the

00:42:50.040 time, but in the 1980s,

00:42:52.220 those of us who remember

00:42:53.220 the 1980s, the idea

00:42:54.680 was Japan was going to

00:42:56.160 buy up everything.

00:42:57.220 Their economy was on

00:42:58.360 fire.

00:42:58.940 They were growing like

00:42:59.920 crazy.

00:43:00.860 And there was a great

00:43:02.120 deal of fear about

00:43:03.360 Japanese ownership of

00:43:04.840 American assets.

00:43:06.200 Now, 40 years later, the

00:43:08.040 Japan economy is around

00:43:09.380 the same size ish, at

00:43:11.040 least according to the

00:43:11.860 stock market.

00:43:13.460 Is China somewhat like

00:43:15.840 Japan where you're going

00:43:16.800 to see this massive

00:43:17.820 growth and then they're

00:43:19.560 kind of going to run

00:43:20.360 into a wall?

00:43:21.180 Now, here we know the

00:43:22.080 demographics.

00:43:22.640 China's population is

00:43:23.880 likely going to decline.

00:43:26.340 You know, there are

00:43:27.120 also it's getting more

00:43:28.340 expensive to make goods

00:43:29.600 in China, which is how

00:43:30.760 as economies rise, the

00:43:32.560 expectation of workers

00:43:33.700 increases.

00:43:34.860 Do you see a parallel

00:43:36.120 potentially between the

00:43:37.520 rapid rise that we saw

00:43:38.820 with Japan and then the

00:43:40.340 plateau with what we

00:43:41.960 have seen with China as

00:43:43.280 well?

00:43:44.400 Yeah, and even more so.

00:43:45.940 Look, China, China is a

00:43:47.600 centrally planned economy

00:43:49.640 that is run by their

00:43:50.800 government.

00:43:51.280 It is run out of

00:43:52.620 Beijing.

00:43:53.560 One lesson of history,

00:43:55.040 you're a historian, I

00:43:57.260 am a bit too.

00:43:58.440 One of the most important

00:43:59.420 lessons of economic

00:44:00.520 history is that central

00:44:01.680 planning does not work.

00:44:02.980 Right.

00:44:03.220 Right.

00:44:03.600 It does not work.

00:44:04.600 It didn't work for the

00:44:05.360 Soviet Union.

00:44:05.980 It's not going to work for

00:44:06.840 China.

00:44:07.360 So China's economy will

00:44:09.020 implode.

00:44:09.660 And I'm not saying it's

00:44:10.480 going to happen next year,

00:44:11.280 but it will implode.

00:44:12.260 It's going to happen

00:44:13.020 because, you know, we

00:44:14.800 have a free enterprise

00:44:15.580 system where we let

00:44:16.500 capital markets and our

00:44:17.600 small businessmen and

00:44:18.520 women make the decisions.

00:44:20.000 They have the government

00:44:21.100 making the decision.

00:44:22.180 Who are you going to bet

00:44:22.860 on?

00:44:23.660 No, I agree.

00:44:24.440 OK, so let me ask you

00:44:25.360 this last question.

00:44:26.220 I appreciate the time.

00:44:27.080 I know how busy you are

00:44:27.980 doing interviews all over

00:44:28.960 the world.

00:44:29.700 Who has more short term

00:44:31.920 pressure on them in a

00:44:33.580 tariff war by your

00:44:35.280 analysis, China or the

00:44:37.040 United States?

00:44:38.140 Whose economy suffers

00:44:39.200 more as we go back and

00:44:40.820 forth, stare each other

00:44:41.820 down?

00:44:42.580 Well, look, you know,

00:44:44.120 when we sneeze, China

00:44:46.160 catches pneumonia.

00:44:46.960 They have to trade with

00:44:48.580 us.

00:44:49.280 If we if we stopped at

00:44:50.880 trading with China, it

00:44:51.900 would hurt our economy,

00:44:52.920 but their economy would go

00:44:54.420 into a Great Depression.

00:44:55.580 That's the leverage that

00:44:56.820 we have over China.

00:44:58.120 And Trump is playing that

00:44:59.780 card.

00:45:00.220 But it's a complicated

00:45:01.240 question because they

00:45:02.720 don't face elections.

00:45:04.160 Yes.

00:45:04.560 President Xi, what's going

00:45:05.500 to stop him?

00:45:06.140 He may be willing to throw

00:45:07.640 his economy into a

00:45:08.740 depression.

00:45:09.640 You know, luckily, we are

00:45:10.620 a democratic country.

00:45:11.780 And so, you know, our

00:45:13.300 pain threshold is probably

00:45:14.500 a lot less than theirs are

00:45:15.800 because they're run by a

00:45:16.840 dictator.

00:45:17.800 No doubt.

00:45:18.680 Well, that's an interesting

00:45:19.620 way of contemplating it.

00:45:21.260 What I know I said last

00:45:22.200 question, but what do you

00:45:23.020 think Chairman Xi is

00:45:24.600 hearing and thinking as

00:45:26.480 this process plays out?

00:45:27.740 I think a lot of people can

00:45:28.620 get into Trump's mind and

00:45:29.780 understand the United

00:45:30.680 States perspective.

00:45:31.980 What do you think the

00:45:32.480 China perspective is right

00:45:33.680 now?

00:45:34.420 I think they're scared.

00:45:35.780 You know, it's not being

00:45:36.700 covered by the media, but

00:45:37.780 their market has fallen

00:45:39.020 much more than ours has.

00:45:40.240 Yeah, you know, they're

00:45:41.100 they're facing they are

00:45:42.420 facing a very, very

00:45:43.580 severe recession.

00:45:44.520 So I think they're freaked

00:45:45.640 out right now.

00:45:46.360 They don't know how to deal

00:45:47.200 with Trump.

00:45:47.760 I think Trump is is as the

00:45:49.240 upper hand here.

00:45:50.260 And I'm going to bet on

00:45:51.440 Trump in America, not

00:45:52.540 China.

00:45:53.180 Stephen Moore, I loved the

00:45:54.600 editorial that you and

00:45:55.680 Art Laffer pin for The

00:45:57.060 Wall Street Journal.

00:45:57.900 We appreciate you coming

00:45:58.760 on and thank Art again.

00:46:00.300 I need to text him to

00:46:01.660 thank him for coming on

00:46:02.480 yesterday.

00:46:03.100 We appreciate your

00:46:03.800 expertise.

00:46:04.740 And anytime you want to

00:46:05.940 come on, let us know.

00:46:07.380 OK, thanks so much.

00:46:08.400 Take care.

00:46:09.120 It's great.

00:46:09.440 I mean, you just heard

00:46:10.320 from two of the most

00:46:11.740 prominent economists in

00:46:13.240 the world, frankly, in the

00:46:14.900 last two days here.

00:46:16.040 I'll take some of your

00:46:16.900 questions, by the way.

00:46:17.920 Cabinet meeting continuing

00:46:19.160 right now as I am looking

00:46:20.700 up.

00:46:21.080 Elon Musk is attending the

00:46:23.020 cabinet meeting and

00:46:24.020 speaking.

00:46:24.620 It is live right now on

00:46:26.500 CNN and Fox News.

00:46:27.700 We are monitoring it and we

00:46:29.000 will bring you whatever we

00:46:30.860 have got in terms of news

00:46:33.060 there.

00:46:34.100 Look, you know, I was down

00:46:35.420 with Buck last week in

00:46:37.000 Miami and went over to his

00:46:39.220 place and his awesome wife

00:46:41.220 Carrie and and he, you

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00:46:45.100 They came from Good

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00:46:48.900 I've talked about this.

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00:48:34.000 delivered stories of

00:48:36.300 freedom, stories of

00:48:37.560 America, inspirational

00:48:39.680 stories that unite us all

00:48:41.580 each day.

00:48:42.440 Spend time with clay and

00:48:44.140 Buck.

00:48:44.740 Find them on the free

00:48:46.000 iHeartRadio app or

00:48:47.480 wherever you get your

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00:48:49.760 Canadian women are

00:48:50.680 looking for more, more

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00:48:53.000 businesses, their elected

00:48:54.220 leaders and the world

00:48:55.340 around them.

00:48:56.000 And that's why we're

00:48:56.620 thrilled to introduce the

00:48:57.960 honest talk podcast.

00:48:59.520 I'm Jennifer Stewart and

00:49:01.000 I'm Catherine Clark.

00:49:02.120 And in this podcast, we

00:49:03.420 interview Canada's most

00:49:04.540 inspiring women,

00:49:05.740 entrepreneurs, artists,

00:49:07.240 athletes, politicians, and

00:49:08.680 newsmakers, all at

00:49:09.840 different stages of their

00:49:11.000 journey.

00:49:11.640 So if you're looking to

00:49:12.820 connect, then we hope

00:49:13.860 you'll join us.

00:49:14.860 Listen to the honest talk

00:49:15.720 podcast on iHeartRadio or

00:49:17.460 wherever you listen to your

00:49:18.420 podcasts.

00:49:20.180 Welcome back in.

00:49:21.340 Clay Travis, Buck Sexton

00:49:22.920 Show.

00:49:23.500 Appreciate all of you

00:49:24.540 hanging out with us.

00:49:25.900 We are joined now by a

00:49:28.820 author, journalist, all

00:49:31.100 around, incredibly talented

00:49:33.160 guy, Douglas Murray.

00:49:34.260 New book on democracies

00:49:35.860 and death cults, Israel

00:49:37.440 and the future of

00:49:38.840 civilization.

00:49:39.460 We appreciate you coming

00:49:40.560 on.

00:49:41.120 For those of you watching

00:49:42.180 on video, the book is up

00:49:43.640 beside me.

00:49:45.560 Let's start right here.

00:49:47.000 I got to go to Israel in

00:49:48.520 December for the first time

00:49:49.680 ever.

00:49:49.900 I went to the kibbutzes on

00:49:51.660 the border with Gaza.

00:49:53.000 I went all the way to the

00:49:53.720 north and Lebanon.

00:49:55.540 I was blown away by the

00:49:57.240 concept, which I should

00:49:58.280 have understood before, but

00:49:59.320 I didn't until I stood on

00:50:00.560 the ground, that Israel

00:50:02.020 really is the front line of

00:50:03.520 Western civilization.

00:50:04.580 If it falls, then Western

00:50:06.380 civilization is in trouble.

00:50:07.880 I know this is a big part of

00:50:08.920 the book argument you make,

00:50:10.740 but do people really

00:50:12.460 understand the stakes, the

00:50:14.500 consequences of what's

00:50:16.060 going on in the Middle East?

00:50:17.060 And more alarmingly, the

00:50:18.680 fact that a lot of people in

00:50:19.920 America and other Western

00:50:21.120 civilizations have lost the

00:50:22.640 ability to distinguish

00:50:23.640 between good and evil.

00:50:25.880 It's very good to be with

00:50:27.220 you and your listeners

00:50:28.360 again.

00:50:29.880 Firstly, the book is an

00:50:31.580 attempt to describe the

00:50:33.440 atrocities of the 7th of

00:50:34.940 October, 2023, how they

00:50:37.140 came about, what happened.

00:50:38.620 I've been there in the zone

00:50:40.120 of the conflict for most of

00:50:41.420 the last year and a half.

00:50:43.280 And so it's a first-hand

00:50:45.280 account as well as an attempt

00:50:47.180 to write a first draft of

00:50:48.320 history about the atrocities

00:50:50.040 of that day.

00:50:51.360 But the other thing that the

00:50:52.860 book is really about is a

00:50:54.280 much bigger question.

00:50:55.720 It's the one, as you say,

00:50:57.200 that affects us here in

00:50:58.620 America and the rest of the

00:51:00.420 West, which is why, when a

00:51:03.020 democracy, an ally of ours,

00:51:07.500 was attacked so brutally, with

00:51:09.840 1,200 people massacred, 250

00:51:12.840 innocent civilians taken

00:51:14.580 hostage, why did so many people

00:51:17.020 here in America side not with

00:51:19.820 the democracy, but with the

00:51:21.420 death cult of Hamas?

00:51:23.480 And I come to not just ask the

00:51:26.680 question, but also I hope to

00:51:28.300 try to answer it.

00:51:29.920 And one of the things that we've

00:51:31.760 seen, and I relate, I saw it

00:51:33.960 straight away early on, on the

00:51:35.420 8th of October, as the massacre

00:51:37.100 was still going on, in Times

00:51:39.180 Square in New York, I saw the

00:51:41.680 demonstration of people

00:51:43.220 supporting the terrorists,

00:51:45.500 supporting Hamas.

00:51:47.020 In the year and a half since,

00:51:48.520 we've seen this disgusting

00:51:50.200 outburst of hatred against the

00:51:52.900 Jewish state and against the

00:51:54.420 Jewish people.

00:51:55.440 Just two days ago at Princeton

00:51:57.440 University, Jewish students were

00:51:59.460 screened at by other students

00:52:01.700 telling them to go home.

00:52:04.520 The reason, in part, as you know,

00:52:07.260 and you've covered so well on your

00:52:08.660 show, is that we have lived

00:52:11.060 through an era in which America,

00:52:13.760 the West, all of our allies are

00:52:16.140 seen as the bad guys over and

00:52:19.040 over again.

00:52:20.760 And if I have a rule that I've

00:52:22.820 developed in the last year and a

00:52:24.220 half, wherever I've gone in

00:52:25.820 America, when I see an anti-Israel

00:52:28.400 protest, I notice that they fly the

00:52:30.900 Palestinian flag.

00:52:32.340 They may fly the flag of Hamas or

00:52:34.840 Hezbollah or one of these other

00:52:36.380 terrorist groups.

00:52:37.100 They never fly the American flag.

00:52:39.540 In fact, when they find an

00:52:40.920 American flag, they'll burn it.

00:52:43.260 Compare it with the pro-Israel

00:52:45.300 demonstrations that have happened.

00:52:47.200 They always have the flying of the

00:52:49.120 Israeli flag and the flying of the

00:52:50.940 American flag and the singing of the

00:52:52.840 Star-Spangled Banner and more.

00:52:55.060 The people who have been most vocal

00:52:57.540 against Israel since the massacre

00:53:00.140 are people who have also told us that

00:53:03.480 they hate Israel first, but they hate

00:53:06.460 America and the West most.

00:53:09.220 And anyone who thinks that that is

00:53:11.500 some kind of hyperbole, just consider

00:53:14.200 that the student group at Columbia,

00:53:16.940 most supportive of Hamas, says in its

00:53:20.660 founding statements that it seeks as

00:53:23.380 its aim the, quote, complete destruction

00:53:26.660 of Western civilization.

00:53:28.520 The complete destruction of Western

00:53:31.760 civilization.

00:53:32.560 They see Israel as being the nearest

00:53:35.220 targets, as Hamas does, but not the

00:53:38.260 last targets.

00:53:39.860 Why do you think young people compared

00:53:42.100 to older people in the United States in

00:53:44.760 particular are so susceptible to the

00:53:47.880 argument that Israel is a force for

00:53:50.300 evil and that in some way the

00:53:53.240 Palestinians or the larger Middle

00:53:55.440 Eastern community is a source of good,

00:53:58.140 even in the wake of October 7th?

00:54:01.100 Why has that worked with so many young

00:54:03.660 people?

00:54:04.800 I believe because they've been prepared

00:54:07.320 for this moment very carefully for years.

00:54:10.780 I said in my last book, The War on the

00:54:13.240 West, that Americans, this generation of

00:54:16.640 Americans coming up, were being taught

00:54:19.220 hatred of America and hatred of the West.

00:54:22.640 We have seen in America the whole great

00:54:25.580 history of America, rewritten in recent

00:54:28.480 years, students and others told that to be

00:54:32.580 an American is to be born into guilt, to

00:54:35.440 inherit the guilt of slavery, of white

00:54:38.120 supremacy, of colonialism, of genocide, and

00:54:41.340 much more.

00:54:42.520 Look at what the pro-Hamas, anti-Israel

00:54:46.140 demonstrators on American campuses accuse

00:54:48.880 Israel of.

00:54:49.700 They accuse Israel completely falsely, as

00:54:53.580 falsely against America.

00:54:55.520 They accuse Israel today of genocide, of

00:54:59.700 ethnic cleansing, of white supremacy, and

00:55:03.060 of all of the sins that they have been told

00:55:05.680 they themselves as Americans born in the

00:55:08.460 21st century are guilty of.

00:55:10.500 This is what a psychologist would call

00:55:12.560 projection on a massive scale.

00:55:15.620 Tell me what you accuse the Jewish state of,

00:55:18.780 and I'll tell you what you've been taught that

00:55:21.200 you are guilty of.

00:55:23.440 We're talking to Douglas Murray.

00:55:25.000 The book is on democracy and death cults,

00:55:28.640 Israel and the future of civilization.

00:55:31.660 What should happen?

00:55:33.580 We've heard a lot from people in the Trump

00:55:35.820 era talking about the right and wrong side of

00:55:38.500 history.

00:55:38.960 If you can see the massacre of Jews, the worst

00:55:43.200 day since the Holocaust, on October 7th, and

00:55:47.520 not recognize what the right and wrong side of

00:55:50.380 history is, how do we rectify that?

00:55:53.220 What should people who are smart enough to know

00:55:55.600 better be doing?

00:55:57.300 Well, I believe that young people in the West,

00:56:01.760 not just America, but principally America, but

00:56:04.200 also I've seen this in the last year and a half in

00:56:05.980 Australia and Canada and Britain and elsewhere.

00:56:08.980 They've been taught into this Western self-hatred

00:56:12.900 and hatred.

00:56:14.340 Now that's been taught.

00:56:16.100 Older generations of Americans do not hate

00:56:19.940 America because they weren't taught to hate America.

00:56:23.400 Older generations of Americans don't hate other

00:56:26.340 democracies because they weren't taught to hate

00:56:29.280 other democracies.

00:56:30.920 Part of this generation, not all of them,

00:56:33.120 there are some great young people coming up, but

00:56:35.540 part of this generation has been taught this

00:56:38.580 hatred.

00:56:39.300 I believe that it is going to require a generation

00:56:42.920 to teach them out of it.

00:56:45.640 I think that's well said.

00:56:47.220 We're talking to Douglas Murray.

00:56:48.420 The book I encourage you to all to go check it

00:56:50.400 out is on democracies and death cults.

00:56:53.540 It's out right now.

00:56:55.540 You mentioned younger generations and the need

00:56:58.680 to teach them about what actually has taken place.

00:57:03.380 How much of this is the perverse idea that you

00:57:06.740 built on here that white people are to blame for

00:57:09.860 everything and that Jewish people are just seen as

00:57:13.320 white and therefore in the left wing anti-American

00:57:17.360 and anti-Western perspective, there is no ability

00:57:21.000 to grapple with the idea that someone who is of lighter

00:57:24.560 skin could actually be a victim here.

00:57:27.100 I mean, it, I think, is partly a function of just

00:57:29.940 the broken worldview at play.

00:57:32.480 I think you're completely right.

00:57:34.700 The thing that this generation has been taught,

00:57:38.260 the thing that has been across our media,

00:57:40.560 whether it's a New York Times 1619 project,

00:57:44.080 whether it's radical Democrats talking about white

00:57:47.680 guilt and all of this sort of thing,

00:57:50.140 always the Jews were going to become a victim of this.

00:57:53.660 And sure enough, the people who believe they're against

00:57:57.960 racism are accusing, again, it goes back to this thing,

00:58:01.640 it's a mirror of their own sins, as they've been told them.

00:58:05.780 Always they accuse Israel of white supremacy.

00:58:09.560 I mean, you've been there.

00:58:11.620 Yes.

00:58:11.980 Like me.

00:58:12.880 It's one of the most ethnically, racially diverse

00:58:15.980 countries on the planet.

00:58:17.520 One third of people in Israel are of European descent.

00:58:23.920 One third.

00:58:25.300 The other two thirds are Middle Eastern.

00:58:28.420 They are from countries across the region historically

00:58:31.560 who were chased out of those countries.

00:58:34.060 Iraqi Jews, Persian Jews, Syrian Jews, and many others.

00:58:39.300 North African Jews.

00:58:40.580 To see white college campus kids in America

00:58:44.960 accusing black Jewish Israelis of white supremacy

00:58:50.520 is, even by the standards of our time,

00:58:52.940 and even with our probably wearied ability to be shocked,

00:58:58.700 absolutely shocking.

00:59:00.660 And shocking not least just for its sheer ignorance.

00:59:05.080 When you look, Douglas Murray,

00:59:06.620 the author of On Democracies and Death Cults,

00:59:09.340 encourage you to go read the book.

00:59:11.620 What you just said, the white American college kids

00:59:14.820 coming after this.

00:59:17.300 When I went to Israel, the other thing that stood out

00:59:19.580 was Trump being called Hitler when Israel,

00:59:23.600 if it could vote in the American presidential election,

00:59:26.600 would have voted like Wyoming did

00:59:29.320 or like West Virginia did.

00:59:31.260 That is basically 70-30 pro-Trump.

00:59:34.320 As someone who doesn't live in America,

00:59:37.240 and when you hear that argument,

00:59:39.340 how outrageous and outlandish is that analogy

00:59:42.620 for our current president

00:59:44.340 when it comes to his relationship with Israel?

00:59:47.700 Well, just one quick thing.

00:59:48.980 I actually do live in America

00:59:50.260 when I'm not living in various war zones.

00:59:52.580 I hot-footed it for my native Britain

00:59:55.440 some years ago for very good reasons,

00:59:57.620 and I'd like to think I'm one of the better

00:59:59.780 American imports of Russia.

01:00:01.660 We'll accept you.

01:00:04.240 Yes, thank you.

01:00:04.980 It was not for me to say.

01:00:07.220 But, you know, because I love this country.

01:00:10.040 I love America.

01:00:10.880 I love the Founding Fathers.

01:00:12.040 I love American history.

01:00:13.480 And I love American people.

01:00:14.840 So it grieves me enormously to see

01:00:18.460 some of the wild, wild hatred

01:00:22.040 and wild claims that people have been

01:00:24.780 encouraged into in recent years.

01:00:27.240 Many people have been persuaded

01:00:29.880 that basically, you know,

01:00:32.100 all of history is just the 1930s and 40s.

01:00:36.120 Right.

01:00:36.260 They only know one bad person in history,

01:00:38.960 and that's Hitler.

01:00:39.780 And their aim is to be anti-Hitler,

01:00:43.120 which is like, wow, guys,

01:00:45.060 that was a very brave

01:00:47.040 and important thing to be

01:00:48.240 in the 1930s and 40s.

01:00:49.980 By the way, when many of the people

01:00:51.720 were not actually anti-Hitler,

01:00:53.540 when it would have been helpful, right?

01:00:55.300 Exactly.

01:00:55.900 It would have really helped

01:00:57.220 if there had been more anti-Hitler people

01:00:59.020 in those days.

01:00:59.840 But history is a bit more complicated

01:01:01.440 when you're going through it.

01:01:03.020 And we are going through it now.

01:01:04.800 One of the things that we've seen

01:01:06.400 in the last 18 months

01:01:07.680 is how many people

01:01:09.040 who regard themselves

01:01:11.000 as being anti-racists

01:01:13.160 are, in fact, the racists.

01:01:15.780 How many people

01:01:16.760 who think they're anti-Nazi

01:01:18.600 are literally siding

01:01:20.540 with a Nazi movement, Hamas.

01:01:23.580 How many people

01:01:24.600 who think they would have been

01:01:26.100 on the right side

01:01:27.060 in the 1930s and the 1940s

01:01:29.480 are on the side

01:01:30.720 of an anti-Semitic

01:01:32.040 and anti-Western death cult today.

01:01:34.800 The people who told us

01:01:36.200 for 10 years

01:01:37.360 to believe all women,

01:01:39.040 are the people

01:01:40.020 who don't believe

01:01:41.240 Israeli women

01:01:42.500 who were raped

01:01:43.360 on the 7th of October.

01:01:45.320 This tells us nothing

01:01:47.060 about the Jewish state

01:01:48.700 or the Jewish people.

01:01:50.200 It tells us everything

01:01:51.400 about the people

01:01:53.340 who have been lecturing us

01:01:55.020 for years now

01:01:56.420 and how wicked they can be.

01:01:59.000 Douglas Murray,

01:01:59.600 last question for you.

01:02:00.720 You hit on something

01:02:01.320 that I think is hugely important.

01:02:03.720 We have a historically

01:02:04.900 illiterate country.

01:02:06.360 Your point is,

01:02:08.060 yes, basically

01:02:08.780 the only historical analogy

01:02:10.440 many people seem

01:02:11.360 to be able to make

01:02:12.280 is to Hitler

01:02:13.140 and to World War II.

01:02:15.260 How much of all of this

01:02:16.780 is rooted in America

01:02:18.540 but also Western civilization

01:02:20.180 in general

01:02:21.020 not having educated

01:02:22.600 its people

01:02:23.340 in terms of real history

01:02:25.680 and having much

01:02:26.880 of a depth of knowledge

01:02:27.860 at all?

01:02:28.240 Well, I'll tell you

01:02:29.940 that it's obviously

01:02:31.080 the ignorance of history

01:02:32.160 is profound everywhere

01:02:33.320 not just in America

01:02:34.500 across the West.

01:02:35.940 Young British

01:02:36.480 and Canadian school children

01:02:38.000 and college students

01:02:39.520 are also being taught

01:02:40.800 versions of the same rot.

01:02:42.740 One of the things

01:02:43.480 I finish this book on though

01:02:44.840 is to say

01:02:45.480 why not regard this

01:02:48.420 as I do

01:02:49.080 as a civilizational moment

01:02:50.820 and a civilizational test.

01:02:52.920 We all weigh ourselves up

01:02:54.420 against the greatest generation

01:02:55.940 of World War II

01:02:56.900 and we should.

01:02:57.960 We ask ourselves

01:02:58.820 would we do

01:02:59.600 what our forefathers

01:03:00.700 were able to do

01:03:01.620 when the time of trial came?

01:03:03.860 You can take the route

01:03:05.500 if you're a young American

01:03:06.620 of being led

01:03:07.740 into the grievance culture

01:03:09.340 the victimhood culture

01:03:10.860 that you and I

01:03:12.040 have spoken about for years

01:03:13.840 and that we hate

01:03:14.860 but you can also

01:03:16.400 choose another route

01:03:17.920 and it's the route

01:03:19.040 that the young men

01:03:19.940 and women of Israel

01:03:20.900 who I had the honor

01:03:22.180 to be with

01:03:22.960 in Gaza

01:03:24.060 in Lebanon

01:03:24.860 in Israel

01:03:25.600 in the last 18 months

01:03:26.760 it's the route

01:03:27.380 they have chosen

01:03:28.340 which is the route

01:03:29.680 of heroism

01:03:30.660 protecting your people

01:03:32.420 protecting your faith

01:03:33.740 protecting your family

01:03:34.960 protecting your way of life

01:03:36.500 and knowing

01:03:37.380 that your way of life

01:03:38.760 will only continue

01:03:39.920 if you're willing

01:03:40.900 to fight for it.

01:03:42.280 I'd like to see

01:03:42.980 Americans learn

01:03:44.220 from the Israeli youth

01:03:45.900 on this

01:03:46.480 because if they do

01:03:47.660 we have a bright future too.

01:03:49.420 Well said

01:03:50.320 the book

01:03:50.780 on democracies

01:03:51.940 and death cults

01:03:53.160 Douglas Murray

01:03:53.800 good luck

01:03:54.400 on the trail

01:03:55.360 and I hope you sell

01:03:56.100 a lot of books

01:03:56.640 I know this audience

01:03:57.440 will be very receptive

01:03:58.320 to your book

01:03:59.240 and the arguments

01:03:59.940 you're making

01:04:00.440 thanks for everything

01:04:01.080 you're doing.

01:04:01.940 It's great to be with you

01:04:03.280 thank you.

01:04:04.380 That is Douglas Murray

01:04:05.300 look

01:04:05.700 much less serious

01:04:07.380 I hope you guys enjoyed that

01:04:08.700 super smart guy

01:04:09.660 obviously historical

01:04:11.120 illiteracy

01:04:11.880 is a big part

01:04:12.800 of the challenge

01:04:13.560 that we face

01:04:14.120 in this country

01:04:14.680 but much less serious

01:04:15.880 I bet a lot of you

01:04:16.860 are paying attention

01:04:18.080 to the Masters

01:04:18.720 down in Augusta, Georgia

01:04:20.440 where I know

01:04:20.960 we have a huge audience

01:04:22.060 right now

01:04:22.660 Thursday at the Masters

01:04:24.120 underway

01:04:24.840 and PrizePix

01:04:26.380 the best place

01:04:27.080 out there

01:04:27.600 to feature

01:04:28.720 all the golfers

01:04:30.000 that are competing

01:04:30.680 you can just pick

01:04:31.480 more or less

01:04:32.420 on what kind of scores

01:04:33.540 they're going to post

01:04:34.400 over 10 million members

01:04:36.300 billions of dollars

01:04:37.700 in awarded winnings

01:04:39.120 PrizePix

01:04:39.700 has made daily

01:04:40.460 fantasy sports

01:04:41.360 accessible to all

01:04:42.580 including those of you

01:04:43.600 who live in Florida

01:04:44.520 who live in Georgia

01:04:46.020 who live in California

01:04:47.460 who live in Texas

01:04:48.420 and might otherwise

01:04:49.220 be being left out

01:04:50.280 you can sign up

01:04:51.700 40 plus states

01:04:53.240 download the PrizePix app

01:04:55.000 today

01:04:55.340 use my name Clay

01:04:56.620 $50 instantly

01:04:58.300 when you play $5

01:04:59.620 very few times

01:05:00.680 where I say

01:05:00.980 hey

01:05:01.180 all you got to do

01:05:02.340 is go to

01:05:03.000 prizepix.com

01:05:04.000 code Clay

01:05:04.580 and you get $50

01:05:05.300 but that is the reality

01:05:07.020 prizepix.com

01:05:08.780 code Clay

01:05:09.680 $50 instantly

01:05:11.160 when you play

01:05:12.600 win or lose

01:05:13.260 you get $50

01:05:13.900 when you play $5

01:05:15.020 if you love the Masters

01:05:16.180 if you love Major League Baseball

01:05:17.860 that's underway

01:05:18.420 if you love

01:05:19.140 NHL playoffs

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01:05:21.900 whatever your sport is

01:05:23.080 you can have more fun

01:05:23.940 with it

01:05:24.240 with prizepix.com

01:05:25.460 code Clay

01:05:26.640 you ain't imagining it

01:05:28.200 the world has gone insane

01:05:30.740 reclaim your sanity

01:05:32.680 with Clay and Buck

01:05:34.260 find them

01:05:35.020 on the free

01:05:35.740 iHeartRadio app

01:05:36.840 or wherever you get

01:05:38.200 your podcasts

01:05:39.020 this is an iHeart podcast

01:05:40.620 guaranteed human

01:05:42.740 coans

01:05:44.200 as they are

01:05:45.560 it actually

01:05:45.640 at least

01:05:47.580 when it comes to

01:05:48.220 the Masters

01:05:48.720 who is

01:05:49.560 I'm

01:06:02.720 honestly

01:06:03.500 my

01:06:03.800 I'm

01:06:04.720 I'm

01:06:05.220 going

01:06:05.640 in

Verdict with Ted Cruz - April 10, 2025

Bonus： Daily Review with Clay Travis and Buck Sexton - Apr 10 2025

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