Verdict with Ted Cruz - Build Back Broke Bombshell

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.400 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.680 One vote away.

00:00:07.660 Joe Biden, Chuck Schumer, the Democrats were one vote away

00:00:11.880 from passing the massive $2 trillion spending spree package,

00:00:16.720 the Build Back Better plan.

00:00:18.680 The Republicans were against it.

00:00:20.200 The Democrats were for it.

00:00:21.800 And then West Virginia Senator Democrat Joe Manchin said no.

00:00:26.560 He said no to the package, a major win.

00:00:28.980 No major legislative achievement for President Biden in his first year,

00:00:33.060 but lots of scary stuff around the corner nonetheless.

00:00:37.300 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:00:44.620 Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:00:46.700 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:00:47.560 And Liz, before we get to all that scary stuff around the corner

00:00:50.220 that President Biden can do outside of the Congress,

00:00:53.780 tell us about some happy stuff this Christmas season.

00:00:56.500 Well, some happy stuff.

00:00:57.260 I mean, the happiest stuff that I can think of is our merch sale,

00:00:59.860 which we've extended through January 15th.

00:01:01.920 So if you want to sport one of those sweet, sweet cactus hats,

00:01:04.920 you can now get that for just 20% off the regular price.

00:01:07.940 If you use the promo code to cheers.

00:01:09.680 As I said, this sale has been extended through January 15th.

00:01:13.060 So not Christmas, not New Year's, January 15th.

00:01:15.500 And Michael, this is actually really important to talk about this year

00:01:18.580 because it might be ending on this high note

00:01:20.580 with Joe Biden's Build Back Better package being torpedoed by Senator Joe Manchin.

00:01:26.240 But that hasn't been the entire year.

00:01:28.020 The entire year has been a series of victories for Joe Biden.

00:01:32.560 If you're thinking from Joe Biden's perspective,

00:01:34.760 Joe Manchin might just put a topper on the end of this year.

00:01:38.240 So Senator, you're the only person in this room who happens to know Joe Manchin.

00:01:42.240 I don't think any of us were expecting him to actually side with the Republicans,

00:01:46.480 say no to the president in his own party.

00:01:48.260 What happened?

00:01:50.140 Well, it's a big deal.

00:01:51.940 And I will say Joe has surprised me all year long.

00:01:55.580 You got to understand Joe Manchin.

00:01:57.100 Joe Manchin is from West Virginia.

00:01:59.480 Joe is a likable, he's an affable guy.

00:02:02.060 Everyone who knows Joe likes him.

00:02:03.700 He's easygoing.

00:02:05.220 He's slap you on the back.

00:02:07.080 He was a football player at West Virginia.

00:02:09.160 He was a college football player.

00:02:10.820 He was a jock.

00:02:12.340 He was governor of West Virginia.

00:02:14.120 among Democrats, he is the most moderate of the Democrats.

00:02:19.740 He is the closest to a centrist among the Democrats.

00:02:23.280 And, you know, I got to say this whole past year, Joe has astonished me.

00:02:27.780 You know, you know, when I arrived at the Senate now nine years ago, beginning of 2013,

00:02:33.840 I remember Jim DeMint pulled me aside and he said, Ted, Joe is like a purple unicorn.

00:02:39.300 He will always, always be with you right until the moment you need it.

00:02:45.060 And that was the pattern consistently, which is that Manchin was somebody who, if we had 51 votes,

00:02:53.020 you could get a 52nd.

00:02:55.460 He could make it bipartisan.

00:02:57.020 So, for example, Brett Kavanaugh was confirmed with Republicans plus Joe Manchin.

00:03:03.040 So he was willing to be a Democratic vote along with the Republicans.

00:03:06.640 But in the nine years I served with Joe prior to this year, I'd never seen him once stand up to Chuck Schumer on any issue that mattered or he was the deciding vote.

00:03:18.800 And so we've talked about on this podcast throughout the year that I've always been skeptical that Manchin would hold the line and say no to Schumer.

00:03:26.680 Well, as we're closing in on the end of 2021, number one, he's held the line on the filibuster, which is enormously consequential to really the worst legislative kind of game changing policies that the Dems want to push through.

00:03:41.600 All take ending the filibuster and Manchin hasn't wavered on that.

00:03:46.380 And then number two, on the Build Back Broke bill.

00:03:49.440 And by the way, I refuse to call it Build Back Better because there's nothing better about trillions and spending and debt and taxes and Bernie Sanders socialist fever dreams, which is what the bill is.

00:04:02.080 But on Build Back Broke, Manchin has consistently tapped the brakes.

00:04:08.540 He's consistently said it's too much money.

00:04:11.560 It was initially scored at $3.5 trillion.

00:04:16.240 That was always a bogus score because it assumed a bunch of the programs in it expired after four, five, six years.

00:04:25.740 Everyone knows that the closest thing to eternal life on planet Earth is a government program.

00:04:31.360 And if you scored the original Build Back Broke bill under just a 10-year window, which is normally how government legislation is scored, it was about a $5 trillion proposal.

00:04:43.740 Manchin had been saying over and over again, this is too much.

00:04:46.460 This is too much.

00:04:47.180 This is too much.

00:04:48.720 He'd then been amplifying it by saying that he was worried about inflation, that the Democrats have already spent over $3 trillion this year in new spending, totally aside from Build Back Broke.

00:05:00.420 We're seeing inflation across the country.

00:05:02.780 And Manchin had been saying, well, I'm worried about inflation.

00:05:05.160 This is too much money.

00:05:06.420 I don't want to have these massive tax increases.

00:05:09.340 And it was really quite striking. 0.86

00:05:11.340 The Democrats' approach to Joe was basically to beat him with sticks, to yell at him, to be nasty, to be hideous to him. 0.95

00:05:19.720 And Joe wasn't wavering. 0.92

00:05:21.900 He was – Biden was calling him regularly.

00:05:24.260 He brought him up to Delaware to meet with him.

00:05:27.960 Biden was working on him constantly.

00:05:30.020 Schumer, the left, they were pounding him.

00:05:31.540 They were pounding him.

00:05:32.940 And then a week ago we saw Manchin announced, we're not going to do it this year.

00:05:40.180 Remember, Schumer had been threatening, we're going to stay through Christmas and pass Build Back Broke.

00:05:46.360 And Manchin said, no, we're not.

00:05:49.220 We're not.

00:05:50.040 I'm not doing it this year.

00:05:51.360 Forget about it.

00:05:53.060 Schumer was pissed.

00:05:54.140 The Democrats were pissed.

00:05:55.520 Biden was pissed.

00:05:56.640 Everyone was pissed.

00:05:57.680 And then on Sunday, after the Senate ended its business for the year and everyone went back home, on Sunday, Manchin went on Fox News Sunday and he said categorically, I'm a no on Build Back Broke.

00:06:13.080 He called it Build Back Better.

00:06:14.200 But I'll give him that because the no is the important part. 1.00

00:06:17.400 Well, I just – on this point of the personal aspect, you know, the White House is badgering Manchin.

00:06:22.860 They think they can bully him into it.

00:06:24.160 Do you think this was a matter of just Joe was always going to be a no, it was too expensive, and that's the way it goes?

00:06:29.520 Do you think this was a matter of politically it's more advantageous for him to oppose it?

00:06:33.380 Or do you think the personal aspect really, really played a role and that the White House overplayed their hand with him?

00:06:39.600 So I think all of the above.

00:06:41.520 I think he is genuinely skeptical of the massive size of this.

00:06:47.400 I think it's also good politics.

00:06:49.140 Listen, you know, West Virginia is a very red state.

00:06:51.760 Trump won West Virginia by 39 points.

00:06:55.680 To give you a sense of it, the only state Trump won by a bigger margin was Wyoming.

00:07:01.220 So it's the number two Trump state in the country, and Manchin miraculously is a Democrat, holds on.

00:07:06.320 So frankly for Manchin, standing up and saying no to Biden on this massive spending bill is pretty good politics.

00:07:14.760 The fact that he announces it on Fox News Sunday, that that was not lost on anybody.

00:07:20.020 He was speaking to West Virginia voters back home, and he needs a bunch of voters that are right of center for him to get reelected.

00:07:26.620 But then on top of that, so I think there's substance, I think there's politics, but I think the personal also matters. 0.99

00:07:35.400 The Democrats are just being jerks to him. 0.99

00:07:39.960 Bernie Sanders, look, Bernie Sanders is gruff and unfriendly to every senator he serves with, both D's and R's. 0.99

00:07:47.520 He's not he's not he doesn't treat people nicely, but he blasts Manchin over and over again.

00:07:54.780 How dare you?

00:07:55.820 One senator doesn't have a right to do this.

00:07:58.800 You know, he wrote an op ed in the biggest paper in West Virginia blasting Manchin for opposing his bill.

00:08:05.400 And I got to tell you, in senatorial world, to write an op ed in another senator's state in their paper blasting them.

00:08:12.620 I've never seen it done. I mean, I mean, it is it's it's kicking a senator in the nuts. 0.85

00:08:18.540 And wow, you know, I got to say, I don't think Manchin took well to it.

00:08:23.840 I don't think. And to be honest, in some ways, Manchin pissing off Bernie Sanders is about as good a politics as he could hope for in West Virginia.

00:08:34.160 I'll tell you a vignette a few weeks ago. I was standing with Manchin and it's probably, I don't know, four or five or six Republican senators.

00:08:43.720 And we were talking and one of them there was Dan Sullivan from Alaska.

00:08:47.260 Dan's a good friend. And Dan said, Joe, we need to do what Cruz has suggested.

00:08:52.420 This is an idea I'd floated to Dan. He said, we need to make you, Joe, the chairman of the committee on everything.

00:08:59.140 And Joe laughed at that. And I followed up. I said, Joe, look, one of the two parties actually likes you.

00:09:10.680 And Manchin howled at that.

00:09:13.780 Here's my question, Senator. I think a lot of people are wondering this.

00:09:16.200 You know, Senator Manchin personally, so you'll be able to speak to this.

00:09:19.300 Is this a negotiation tactic, not just between Senator Manchin and his constituents,

00:09:24.140 but between the White House and Senator Manchin? Because Press Secretary Jen Psaki painted this as a betrayal.

00:09:30.680 Senator Manchin betraying President Biden. Is this just another ploy?

00:09:35.220 And maybe maybe it'll happen next year. Another ploy for Manchin to get what he wants in this bill next year.

00:09:40.020 So let me give you the negative and the positive. The negative is very possibly.

00:09:45.200 Yes. The fact that Manchin has said no to this bill and put out a big statement.

00:09:49.620 I think that probably ties him in pretty firmly to being no on this bill.

00:09:54.780 That doesn't mean that Manchin can't go back next year and negotiate some different bill that he wants

00:10:00.700 that has a bunch of spending and a bunch of taxes. 0.91

00:10:03.440 He said that he wants $1.75 trillion instead of $5 trillion.

00:10:08.480 OK, that's moving in the right direction, but you can do a lot of damage with $1.75 trillion,

00:10:13.780 particularly depending on what the details are.

00:10:15.960 So I think it's entirely possible that that Manchin goes back and agrees to something different.

00:10:21.320 That's not this bill, but could still be a bad bill.

00:10:25.560 The good side of it, though, is is the personal, which is, you know,

00:10:30.740 I was saying a minute ago whether Manchin would become a Republican.

00:10:34.200 I'm skeptical. I don't think he will.

00:10:36.800 And I've tried to convince him every Republican senator.

00:10:40.180 I think all 50 of us have tried to convince Joe to come over.

00:10:42.940 And you've got to think of it culturally.

00:10:46.340 So Joe has been a Democrat his whole life.

00:10:49.800 He was governor as a Democrat in West Virginia.

00:10:54.180 He's been senator in his second term as a Democrat.

00:10:58.200 He is the godfather of Democrats in the state.

00:11:02.060 I mean, it is his being.

00:11:04.100 It's his culture.

00:11:05.300 Think about every staffer he's had from when he started in politics.

00:11:08.540 They're all Democrats.

00:11:09.700 They're all staffing Democratic lobbyist firms.

00:11:11.680 Think about all of his donors.

00:11:13.000 They're all big Democrats.

00:11:14.320 And so he's got so much culture, so much of his identity is tied up in being a Democrat

00:11:21.400 that to flip over is hard.

00:11:23.320 Now, the countervailing piece, and this is what you asked about, Liz, is the personal.

00:11:28.560 The Democrats are being horrific to him.

00:11:31.080 I mean, they're you know, we've seen video of him walking down the street in D.C.

00:11:34.860 being chased by an angry group of leftists screaming and berating him.

00:11:40.700 You know, when he's in D.C., he lives on a houseboat.

00:11:44.620 I've actually been to his houseboat.

00:11:45.840 It's a very nice houseboat.

00:11:46.800 And that's where he lives when he's not in West Virginia.

00:11:49.280 You know, we've all seen leftists gotten kayaks and rode up to his houseboat to harass him in D.C.

00:11:56.380 You know, Kyrsten Sinema obviously leftist, chased her into the ladies room. 1.00

00:12:01.800 And I do think there's a possibility.

00:12:03.960 You know, I mentioned said earlier this week, he said, you know, he was asked about still being a Democrat.

00:12:09.540 And he said, yes, if they will have me.

00:12:11.560 And it was an interesting qualifier where it could be that the left, you know, Jen Psaki, you know, I'm very impressed that she thinks so highly of herself, that that is a press flack for for the White House. 0.99

00:12:27.900 She feels perfectly fine dressing down, not just a Democratic senator, but the pivotal 50th vote they need to accomplish anything.

00:12:35.980 I got to tell you, at any functioning White House, if a press secretary did that, the chief of staff of the president would drag them in on the carpet and say, what the hell are you doing?

00:12:49.220 And I'll point out, look, you know, if you remember back when when George W. Bush was president, you had Jim Jeffords, who was a very, very moderate to liberal Republican.

00:13:02.280 And he switched parties.

00:13:03.680 He became a Democrat.

00:13:04.440 And when Jeffords did that, it switched control of the Senate from Republican to Democrat.

00:13:10.140 And part of why Jeffords flipped is is I think he felt mistreated by the Bush White House, that they had been pretty bare knuckled and mean to him and he got mad.

00:13:21.900 I think the Biden guys risk that and particularly the, you know, Bernie stand, the Bernie brothers are so passionate and nasty.

00:13:35.000 That I think there's a chance they chase Manchin out, that they make it so inhospitable that he says enough is enough.

00:13:43.820 Well, the water is warm, Joe.

00:13:45.340 Speaking of the personal touch, Liz is going to go collect mailbag questions from all of our Verdict Plus subscribers. 0.87

00:13:51.300 Do I have that right, Liz?

00:13:51.900 That is correct.

00:13:53.320 Don't forget, there's a sale at the merch store if you want that sweet cat set.

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00:14:04.320 You can get 20% off until January 15th.

00:14:06.580 And if you want to submit a question for Senator Cruz, Michael Knowles, or me to answer on air, go over to VerdictWithTedCruise.com slash plus.

00:14:14.540 Verdict Plus subscribers get exclusive access to ask all the questions on the episodes and we're going to get to that shortly.

00:14:20.420 All right, wonderful.

00:14:21.480 Thank you, Liz.

00:14:21.980 Senator, this all happened in the wee small hours of the morning on Friday night, and Joe Manchin was the no, and it went dead, and then Schumer sent everybody home.

00:14:30.960 There was something else consequential that happened in the wee small hours.

00:14:34.460 You got a major win off of Chuck Schumer, and it's not really making too much news.

00:14:38.960 We got an enormous victory at about 1 in the morning, Friday night, early Saturday morning, and it was concerning Nord Stream 2.

00:14:47.320 And we've talked a lot about Nord Stream 2 on this podcast, the pipeline that Vladimir Putin is building from Russia to Germany.

00:14:55.520 And I've been leading the fight against it, authored and passed twice bipartisan legislation stopping Nord Stream 2, defeating Russia. 0.88

00:15:05.160 All of our victories, national security victories on Russia on Nord Stream 2 were given away by Biden, who waived the sanctions and basically gave a multibillion-dollar gift to Putin.

00:15:15.340 That, in turn, set the stage for the hundreds of thousands of Russian troops on the border of Ukraine right now, as we talked about just a couple of podcasts ago.

00:15:25.580 Well, in response to Biden waiving sanctions on Nord Stream 2, I placed a hold on every State Department nominee in the Biden administration, every single State Department nominee and also a handful of Treasury nominees as well, and have been trying to use those holds as leverage to force Biden to actually have the stones to stand up to Russia.

00:15:49.820 For those of us who are not super familiar with Roberts' rules of order and the way the Senate works, what does it mean to put a hold on a nominee?

00:15:56.860 Yeah, so it's a great question.

00:15:59.080 A hold is not a blanket block.

00:16:01.760 So I don't have the ability as an individual senator to prevent anyone from being confirmed.

00:16:06.800 But what a hold does is slows down a nomination considerably because many of these nominees, particularly ambassadors, routine ambassadors, career ambassadors, move forward by what's called unanimous consent.

00:16:20.680 And unanimous consent is what it sounds like.

00:16:22.940 It's all 100 senators agree.

00:16:25.240 The rules of the Senate are really slow and cumbersome.

00:16:27.740 And so a lot of how the Senate operates is through unanimous consent.

00:16:32.020 Now, the flip side of unanimous consent is any one senator can say, no, I don't consent.

00:16:38.580 And suddenly the wheels grind to a halt.

00:16:41.040 And so when I placed a hold on these nominees, it meant that to confirm any one of them took time on the floor, took significant time.

00:16:49.200 And Schumer had to make the decision to invest time to do that.

00:16:54.980 Democrats were outraged.

00:16:56.480 And so for the past several months, we've had multiple Democrats going to the floor, giving speeches about how how I'm a terrorist, how it's terrible that I'm stopping these nominations.

00:17:06.720 But what I was doing with these holds is using leverage to cause movement.

00:17:12.000 So throughout the course of it, I've been transparent, incremental.

00:17:15.720 So, for example, early on, I negotiated with Tony Blinken, the secretary of state, and I said and Blinken offered to put out a really strong statement threatening sanctions on Nord Stream 2.

00:17:27.640 I said, all right, I'll lift three holds in exchange for that.

00:17:31.520 And I actually my office, we edited the statement before they put it out.

00:17:35.240 The instant they put it out, I lifted the holds.

00:17:37.640 And so kind of all throughout, I've tried to use these holds as leverage to make progress on stopping Nord Stream 2 and stopping Russia.

00:17:47.040 Well, three or four weeks ago, I had an agreement with Chuck Schumer to have a vote on sanctions on Nord Stream 2 in exchange for I was going to lift seven holds.

00:17:57.920 And we were going to do that as part of the NDAA, the National Defense Authorization Act.

00:18:03.560 And there were about 20 amendments coming up, one of which was my sanctions amendment on Nord Stream 2.

00:18:10.440 Then, unfortunately, all the amendments got torn down on the NDAA.

00:18:14.400 It was a fight over an unrelated matter.

00:18:16.800 And so there were no amendment votes.

00:18:18.620 And so the deal went away.

00:18:20.640 Well, beginning of last week, I extended an offer to Schumer.

00:18:25.060 I said, all right, I'll tell you what.

00:18:27.200 I'll lift the holds on 16 ambassadors, 16 nominees, mostly ambassadors.

00:18:33.120 There's 16 total, not in addition to those other seven.

00:18:36.000 The seven were included.

00:18:37.380 So I basically doubled the ante and took it from from seven up to 16 in exchange for a vote on Nord Stream 2.

00:18:45.300 And one of the things to understand is the leverage.

00:18:48.480 So presidential appointments expire at the end of the year.

00:18:52.500 So every nominee that is not acted on by the Senate, that nomination expires.

00:18:57.600 And Biden has to come back in January, resubmit the nomination.

00:19:01.360 They go back to committee.

00:19:02.560 The committee has to consider it again.

00:19:04.300 And it takes a long time.

00:19:05.940 So the Democrats are feeling real pressure at the end of the year.

00:19:10.000 We want to move on noms. 0.99

00:19:12.240 So I put forward 16.

00:19:14.160 You'll be amused.

00:19:14.980 Just one of the one of the noms that was in that group was Rahm Emanuel.

00:19:20.020 Now, look, I am not a fan of Rahm Emanuel.

00:19:22.660 He was a hardcore partisan Democrat in the Clinton White House.

00:19:26.780 He was mayor of Chicago.

00:19:28.020 He's been nominated to be ambassador to Japan.

00:19:30.920 But Rahm was lighting me up and Rahm was getting all sorts of people, all sorts of people who are friends and supporters of mine to call me and say, hey, you really need to clear Rahm and let him move forward.

00:19:41.260 And so I decided, all right, I'm going to throw Rahm into this package.

00:19:45.900 And I called Rahm and I said, all right, Rahm, I'm adding you to the group that I'm offering to Schumer to lift the holds on.

00:19:52.740 And you have proven to be a formidable lobbyist.

00:19:56.800 You have been lighting me up from every direction.

00:19:58.780 So, Rahm, I'm doing this for one reason and one reason only. 0.96

00:20:01.980 I want you to direct that relentless lobby at Chuck Schumer and get him to take my damn deal because I've now teed it up. 0.97

00:20:09.840 And all you got to do is get your own party to say yes. 0.98

00:20:12.680 And so Rahm was lighting the Democrats up.

00:20:17.280 Well, I offered 16.

00:20:18.460 So he went along with it.

00:20:19.760 Oh, no, no.

00:20:20.180 Rahm thought it was fantastic.

00:20:21.300 He's like, great.

00:20:22.700 And he immediately, I mean, it was exactly what it was intended to do, which is what I wanted.

00:20:28.220 I wanted Rahm to be, you know, hitting Schumer from all directions to take the deal.

00:20:35.300 Well, Schumer said no to 16.

00:20:39.100 I then put and he came back and he said every nominee, which was about 60 nominees, I want all of them.

00:20:46.300 And I'm like, well, no.

00:20:48.220 And actually, his initial offer was lift every hold and promise never to make a hold again. 0.99

00:20:53.340 And it's like, OK, well, screw you. 0.76

00:20:55.400 In your entire Senate career? 0.98

00:20:57.460 Like, you got to understand, Schumer was angry and he was angry at Manchin.

00:21:03.340 He was angry at Build Back Broke.

00:21:04.880 He was angry that, like, he wasn't getting what he wanted.

00:21:07.580 And he was lashing out emotionally.

00:21:10.400 So I initially teed up 16.

00:21:12.700 Then I ended up and the negotiations, as they started getting late Friday night, I upped it to 28.

00:21:23.280 Ultimately, at one and Schumer was no.

00:21:25.740 And he was coming back with, you know, 51.

00:21:28.440 He was coming back with big numbers.

00:21:30.240 And and look, if you're engaged in a negotiation, one of the most important things is is that people learn.

00:21:38.700 Learn.

00:21:40.260 That your threats are credible, that you don't bluff.

00:21:43.780 And so as they're insisting on big, big numbers, I'm like, look, fine.

00:21:47.680 I don't care.

00:21:48.800 Then have every one of your nominees expire.

00:21:51.080 That's fine by me.

00:21:52.100 It's not like I'm vested in having a bunch of rich Democrats move into mansions and European capitals and start throwing parties with expensive wine.

00:22:00.660 That may be a big priority for you.

00:22:02.220 But but my life is just fine with that being delayed a few months more.

00:22:07.480 And it was finally, oh, I don't know.

00:22:09.440 It was midnight one in the morning.

00:22:12.980 Where where Schumer, I think, finally believed I was ready to walk away from the deal.

00:22:19.780 Were you?

00:22:20.760 Would you reveal to us if you would walk away from the deal?

00:22:23.460 Oh, yeah.

00:22:24.160 Oh, yeah.

00:22:24.560 In a heartbeat, I was ready to walk away from the deal.

00:22:26.740 He believed it because it was the case and I was I was absolutely at the point of, all right, we're done.

00:22:36.020 And so then he blinked.

00:22:38.720 And he scheduled a vote on sanctions on Nord Stream 2 in the first two weeks of January.

00:22:44.460 So by mid-January, we'll have the vote.

00:22:47.260 By the way, I had to have the vote in January and not in December because a bunch of Republicans had left.

00:22:52.600 And so I didn't want the vote when like the Republican senators weren't there.

00:22:55.280 So I had to wait till January.

00:22:56.440 And you'll lose on the vote, right?

00:22:57.540 Yeah.

00:22:57.780 I mean, to have the vote and then like not have your own guys there is a real problem.

00:23:01.840 But he agreed in exchange for my lifting the holds on 32 different nominees.

00:23:08.680 And so those 32 went through and they got confirmed.

00:23:12.180 And most of those were fairly non-controversial.

00:23:14.560 The whole point of the holds was leverage to make progress.

00:23:18.740 But, you know, let me get a little bit into the weeds because it's we were having a fight.

00:23:26.540 Schumer wanted to vote on what's called a side by side, which is my sanctions amendment alongside a Bob Menendez sanctions bill that would sanction Russia if they invade Ukraine.

00:23:39.660 So after the fact, after an invasion, the reason Schumer wants a side by side is it's easier for Democrats to vote against my bill because the Menendez bill gives them political cover.

00:23:50.680 So what I told Schumer is I said, look, I'll accept it one of two ways.

00:23:56.400 Either you can tee up Menendez's bill and have my sanctions as an amendment to his bill.

00:24:02.200 But if you do that, my sanctions have to be at a 50 vote threshold, which means if we hold the Republicans and get one Democrat, we win.

00:24:10.240 And I knew for a fact we'd win at a 50 vote threshold because a number of Democrats told me they were voting for my bill.

00:24:16.320 I said, alternatively, you can tee up my bill as a standalone vote at a 60 vote threshold.

00:24:24.220 Well, Schumer didn't want either one because he's afraid that the White House will lose it either way.

00:24:28.700 And so it was all about leverage to get a good vote.

00:24:32.780 It was one in the morning where he blinked and said, fine, we'll give you a standalone vote at 60.

00:24:38.620 And so that's what we did. And we're going to come back in in January.

00:24:43.440 And one of two things will happen in January.

00:24:46.940 Either we will narrowly lose the vote.

00:24:49.560 It may be that the White House puts so much pressure on Democrats that they vote to surrender to Russia and basically throw Ukraine overboard and set up a Russian invasion of Ukraine, which is a really tough vote for Democrats.

00:25:02.760 They don't want to do that, but they might.

00:25:04.980 Partisan pressure might get them to do that.

00:25:06.920 Or if it looks like we're getting north of 60, it wouldn't surprise me if we suddenly if they give the green light and all or virtually all Democrats vote and my thing passes by a big margin.

00:25:18.560 So either way, we've got a major vote scheduled in January that that I got to tell you, at one in the morning, Schumer was so pissed.

00:25:28.000 He wouldn't look at me. He was scowling.

00:25:31.340 It didn't help that a bunch of senators were like high fiving me when when he conceded that that that was a little bit spiking the football.

00:25:39.060 But but but it was a big win.

00:25:41.200 That's great. So we're having too much good news before we get to the mailbag.

00:25:44.940 I want to touch on a couple a couple of bad news stories, and it all has to do with the vaccine.

00:25:50.520 So, you know, I'm moonlight.

00:25:52.080 My other gig outside of our work here at Verdict with our good friend Cactus and and Liz and the whole audience is that I'm at the Daily Wire.

00:26:00.500 Daily Wire sues the Biden administration over the private vaccine mandate.

00:26:05.480 So we go we get some good indications out of the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals.

00:26:09.820 Then the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals is where we're bringing our lawsuit.

00:26:12.440 And then right in the night on this past Friday, the Sixth Circuit reverses its stay of the vaccine mandate, meaning that they put a hold on the vaccine mandate.

00:26:22.600 You don't need to go get the Fauci ouchie.

00:26:24.400 Now they're saying, yes, you do.

00:26:25.620 A lot of companies are following suit this around the same time.

00:26:29.540 You are grilling the CEO of United Airlines because United Airlines is imposing a vaccine mandate on their employees, regardless of what the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals says.

00:26:38.520 So on this vaccine issue. Great. We won Build Back Broke. Great. We won or we might win Nord Stream 2.

00:26:44.540 Are we going to lose on the vaccines? So I hope not. But but it was a very disappointing development.

00:26:48.680 So so. So as you noted, the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, which is the federal court of appeals that covers Texas, had issued a stay, had stayed Biden's vaccine mandate for private employers.

00:27:01.740 And as we've talked about before on this this pod, there are four different Biden mandates, one for active duty military, one for federal civilian employees, one for federal contractors, and then one for private employers with 100 or more employees.

00:27:18.380 And we've talked about I think all of them are legally suspect. But I think the most problematic is is the mandate for private employee, employers, employees.

00:27:28.400 That's the OSHA mandate. The Fifth Circuit Federal Court of Appeals had issued a stay, had ordered that that the OSHA mandate would not go into effect.

00:27:37.580 Now, here's what happened. There were a bunch of lawsuits filed over the OSHA mandate.

00:27:43.380 And there's a provision in the federal rules that when you have a bunch of lawsuits over the same topic, they can be consolidated in one court of appeals so that you don't have multiple court of appeals all resolving the same or similar issues.

00:27:56.300 And so what happened is by lottery, the circuit that got it was the Sixth Circuit.

00:28:01.700 So that was just just happenstance that that suddenly the cases all went to the Sixth Circuit and the Sixth Circuit on Friday night reversed course and it vacated the stay that the Fifth Circuit had entered in.

00:28:15.780 And and the Sixth Circuit, it's a divided opinion. So it's a two one opinion.

00:28:20.720 The majority opinion is written by a appellate judge nominated by Barack Obama.

00:28:26.480 It's joined by a George W. Bush appellate judge.

00:28:29.560 The dissent is is by Joan Larson, who was a Trump appointed court of appeals judge.

00:28:38.420 She was on his Supreme Court list. She was a former clerk to Justice Scalia, very smart, very capable judge.

00:28:45.360 And it was a straight out dispute over the legality of the mandate.

00:28:49.600 And so the majority opinion of the Sixth Circuit said the Fifth Circuit was wrong and the plaintiffs are likely to lose and that OSHA has the authority to issue this ruling.

00:28:59.260 It was a bad ruling. It was a bad ruling on the merits. Judge Larson's dissent is a very effective dissent.

00:29:06.640 It goes through and slices the majority's reasoning to bits where we stand today is is that the plaintiffs have appealed to the Supreme Court and asked for emergency relief.

00:29:17.340 We'll see if we'll see if we'll see if they get it. What has also happened is OSHA has stayed its own mandate until January 10th.

00:29:27.200 So nothing will happen until January 10th. We've at least got a little bit more of a window.

00:29:33.280 But if the ruling stays where it is, that's not good.

00:29:37.720 So, you know, the players involved, I guess we were one vote away on the Sixth Circuit decision as well.

00:29:43.520 One vote away in the Senate on Build Back Broke. So what's going to happen up at the Supreme Court?

00:29:47.640 Are the originalists and the conservatives going to go squishy or or are they going to say, no, you don't have the right, President Biden, to force this mandate on private employers?

00:29:56.740 You know, I hope that the court follows the law. I got to say, when it comes to covid, it's a bit a little bit all over the map.

00:30:06.080 And in my view, it's a pretty straightforward statutory question that that OSHA lacks the authority that this is a vast, vastly exceeds OSHA statutory authority.

00:30:16.940 Fifth Circuit agreed and said it was a brazen, brazenly in excess of its authority.

00:30:22.360 You know, the U.S. Supreme Court, they've been a little bit nervous.

00:30:26.700 We talked in a recent pod about the religious liberty fights coming out of New York where the justices were reluctant to step in on covid.

00:30:40.660 And so where it comes out, if this were a, you know, sort of non covid type issue, it'd be easy that the court would rule.

00:30:51.680 No, you don't have the authority to do this. If you took the covid, the covid out of it, it's it's I think there are some justices that that are nervous about covid.

00:31:01.220 As we talked about last podcast, you know, Justice Gorsuch's dissent, analogizing it to wartime rulings that in wartime, people get really nervous and sometimes justify bad policies because they're scared of their enemies.

00:31:16.180 And I think Gorsuch made a good analogy that when it comes to covid and pandemics, we're seeing bad policies justified because they're scared of the pandemic.

00:31:25.000 You know, I will say you mentioned the airlines.

00:31:29.760 So last week in the Senate Commerce Committee, we had the CEOs of the major airlines testify.

00:31:35.680 And and for several years, I've been either the chairman of the ranking member of the Aviation Subcommittee of Commerce.

00:31:42.860 So the lead Republican on all airline related issues during the pandemic, when we were passing the CARES Act and there was billions of dollars of relief for airlines to make sure that we had pilots in an aviation industry when when they were allowed to fly again.

00:31:58.840 And I was the lead Republican making all that happen. And so we had the CEOs.

00:32:03.660 I know the CEOs all well. I pointed out, I said, look.

00:32:09.060 Two of the companies, both based in Texas, Southwest and American Airlines have been really good on vaccine mandates, in particular, the CEOs of both have said to me directly,

00:32:20.900 but also publicly that no employee will be fired because they declined to comply with a vaccine mandate, that they will be generous in granting exemptions and they will not fire anyone.

00:32:32.120 That's the right thing to do. I commend both of them for doing that.

00:32:36.580 Delta, the CEO, has likewise said they will not fire anyone for failing to comply with a vaccine mandate.

00:32:43.040 The one big outlier is United and United. Look, United is an airline I know well because I live in Houston and United there.

00:32:52.120 You know, one of their big hubs is in Houston. So if you live in Houston, you've got to fly United.

00:32:56.000 You basically fly mostly United and Southwest if you're a Houstonian.

00:33:00.920 And so, I mean, I fly United all the time. United is based in Chicago.

00:33:06.240 And I don't know if they have decided they're a Democrat airline, that they're an adjunct to the Biden White House, but their CEO has been draconian on this.

00:33:17.380 He said, if you don't get the vaccine, you're fired. And they fired pilots. They fired flight attendants.

00:33:23.260 I talked to, you know, and I went through in the hearing, I questioned Scott Kirby and I said, look, why aren't you doing what your peers are doing?

00:33:30.800 Why don't you give a damn about the rights of your pilots and flight attendants and employees? 0.99

00:33:37.320 There are about 2,000 United employees who are standing up and fighting against United, about 14,000 United employees in Texas.

00:33:45.660 And I got to say he was just defiant. He's like, well, this is safety and we're going to mandate it for safety.

00:33:51.940 And it was what United is doing is wrong. And one of the things I pointed out to him, I said, look, I fly United pretty much every week, almost without exception on every single flight I get on.

00:34:09.980 Either a United pilot or a flight attendant or sometimes multiple pilots or multiple flight attendants come up to me and they just say, thank you.

00:34:18.980 Thank you for fighting for us. And I said, you know, Mr. Kirby, what the hell is wrong with you that your employees are thanking me?

00:34:26.180 You're the CEO. Why aren't you fighting for your employees? And he had no good answer to that.

00:34:31.940 Right, right. And you hope that enough pressure will bring him into line with the other airlines, but a lot of uncertainty on the vaccine.

00:34:40.560 So before we keep dreading what awaits for us in 2022, perhaps let's bring Liz back in for a little end of the year cheer so we can hear from all of our wonderful members in Verdict Plus.

00:34:51.880 Thank you, Michael. Yes, there are so many good questions for the episode tonight.

00:34:55.440 As always, if you want to submit a question for Senator Cruz, for Michael, or for me to answer live on air during these episodes, you can go to verdictwithtedcruz.com slash plus.

00:35:04.320 We do have, we've extended our sale through January 15th, so you can become an annual subscriber for just $56 a year.

00:35:10.260 That is, by the way, the cheapest price that you're ever going to get on that.

00:35:12.940 So now's the time. Time is, as they say, go ahead on over to verdictwithtedcruz.com slash plus.

00:35:19.220 Senator, the first question isn't so much political as personal. We are about to enter into 2022 after a tough year politically.

00:35:29.200 Do you have any New Year's resolutions that you make?

00:35:33.460 You know, I don't have any formal New Year's resolutions.

00:35:36.780 Look, I would like to do what I suspect a lot of folks would like to do, which is lose some weight.

00:35:41.520 You know, I turn 51 tomorrow, and, you know, when I was a kid, when I was in high school and college, I was skinny as a rail.

00:35:51.680 When I graduated from college, I was 5'11 and about $1.35, $1.40, and was skinny for a long time.

00:36:01.200 But as I've gotten older, I've put on a few extra pounds, and, you know, I'm working out and trying to watch what I eat.

00:36:07.520 But is it a firm resolution? I wish it were firmer than that, but lifting weights a couple times a week and playing basketball a couple times a week

00:36:19.120 and trying to cut down the carbs, and we'll see if that makes any progress.

00:36:25.880 We'll be able to tell. We'll be able to hold you accountable because we'll see who wins the arm wrestling contest between you and Michael.

00:36:31.720 Well, that depends on how people vote.

00:36:33.820 That is. That is. My New Year's resolution is a recurring one. I always try to read 50 books a year.

00:36:40.660 I actually, this year, I have to admit, I did not come anywhere close. I think I'm only about 30 books.

00:36:44.540 But I did give birth at the beginning of the year, so I think that gets me out of it this year.

00:36:48.160 But I do try to read a book a week.

00:36:49.900 That's true. My resolution is a little closer to the Senators, but I guess it's sort of the opposite.

00:36:54.780 I've resolved to get much fatter this year. You know, I'm something of a skinny boy myself.

00:36:58.760 I don't cut a very imposing figure. So I want to eat lots of hoagies and pasta and really cut a physically intimidating appearance.

00:37:06.140 And please wish me luck.

00:37:07.340 You know, I will say, Liz, your 50 books will get a lot easier now that you're a mom,

00:37:12.740 because reading books like One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish really stacks up the numbers fast.

00:37:17.360 If I counted those, then my number would be much, much higher. I didn't actually think of counting those.

00:37:23.660 So, Senator, there's an interesting theme throughout this year.

00:37:26.280 Since the Biden administration, you know, has been inaugurated since they've been in the White House,

00:37:30.580 there is this, it's not even an underlying sentiment among a lot of the American people.

00:37:34.360 There's an open sentiment among the American people wanting accountability for institutions that they don't trust

00:37:40.460 or politicians that they feel are corrupt.

00:37:42.040 And so the questions tonight are all of the same nature. People, the American people, voters,

00:37:47.820 your constituents, Biden's constituents, wanting accountability for actions that they deem unethical and wrong.

00:37:52.920 And so I want to start with a question from Philip Beach. He says,

00:37:55.780 I would like to ask what will be done in the near future in terms of bringing charges against Dr. Fauci.

00:38:01.260 The man has lied repeatedly to Congress and the people in regards to his role in gain of function diseases in Wuhan.

00:38:06.800 Yet he continues to peddle his misinformation and strut about national TV.

00:38:10.580 Senator, how do you answer that question?

00:38:12.520 Yeah, look, it's a great question. The unfortunate answer is in the next year,

00:38:16.920 my prediction is not a damn thing will be done about it.

00:38:20.860 And the reason is the way our Constitution is structured, it is the executive that brings charges.

00:38:27.260 It is the executive that can bring an indictment and only the executive, only the Biden administration can do so.

00:38:33.200 So in Congress, we can if we had the majority, we could hold hearings, we can call, we can shine a light, we can draw attention to it.

00:38:43.760 But but as a senator, I don't have any ability to bring criminal charges.

00:38:47.800 Only the executive can do so.

00:38:49.340 And as you rightly noted, Dr. Fauci, listen, he's been wrong on a host of things about COVID from the beginning.

00:38:59.140 But in terms of criminal conduct, criminal conduct is not whether you agree or disagree with someone.

00:39:04.740 It's not even whether you like the edicts that he's issued.

00:39:08.520 Criminal conduct is if you violated the criminal laws.

00:39:11.440 And and what that question asked, put put the finger on the clearest violation of criminal laws,

00:39:17.180 which is that Fauci has testified in front of Congress multiple times that the NIH has never funded gain of function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

00:39:29.100 Gain of function research is where you're modifying a virus to make it more infectious, to make it more deadly, to make it more dangerous.

00:39:36.420 And he has said unequivocally, repeatedly in congressional testimony, no, no, no, no, we have not done that.

00:39:44.960 A couple of months ago, the NIH in writing confirmed that, yes, the NIH has, in fact, funded gain of function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

00:39:57.140 Those two statements are directly contradictory.

00:39:59.820 They're 180 degrees opposite.

00:40:01.760 When Merrick Garland was testifying in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee, I asked him about this.

00:40:06.300 I asked him, will you investigate?

00:40:09.880 Will you prosecute Fauci?

00:40:11.340 And the reason it's it's prosecution is 18 U.S.C.

00:40:16.280 Section Section 1001 makes it a felony punishable by up to five years in prison to lie to Congress.

00:40:26.820 And so on the face of it, it certainly appears that Fauci lied to Congress and committed a criminal act.

00:40:32.380 And so I asked Garland, will you investigate and prosecute?

00:40:36.300 And if you won't, will you appoint a special counsel?

00:40:39.480 If you're too politically compromised, if your partisan loyalties to to Biden are too great, will you appoint a special counsel?

00:40:46.960 And Garland, following the lawless pattern we've seen from this attorney general in this Justice Department, said, I won't comment on investigations, but he just refused to answer.

00:40:58.860 I'm going to continue shining a light on it.

00:41:00.960 I'm going to continue calling for accountability.

00:41:02.920 But I have no confidence that this administration is willing to enforce the law if it's politically inconvenient for them to do so.

00:41:12.240 Right. Well, I think that they've proved that.

00:41:13.840 I mean, the fact that Attorney General Garland refused to comment on it, I mean, pretty much says all all that we need to know, although we appreciate you pushing this.

00:41:21.200 So T.M. Erickson has a very similar question, saying Congressman McCarthy has openly declared his desire to investigate Mr. Biden if the GOP retakes the House in 2022.

00:41:32.480 Do you think that's smart?

00:41:35.060 Yes. And I think that is extremely likely to happen.

00:41:38.000 I'm very optimistic about 2022.

00:41:39.780 I put the odds of Republicans winning the House at about 90-10, and it may even be higher than that.

00:41:46.840 What's interesting is in Washington, everybody assumes Republicans are going to win.

00:41:51.400 I think all the Democrats assume we're going to take the House.

00:41:54.440 It's almost baked into the cake of how everyone handles decision making and the assumptions.

00:42:00.240 I put the odds of our taking the Senate at about 50-50.

00:42:04.380 I think it's going to be a really good year, but it's a bad map.

00:42:09.040 We have more vulnerable Republican seats up in 2022 in the Senate than we have vulnerable Democrat seats.

00:42:16.140 So we've got to have a few things bounce right.

00:42:18.780 But if we take the House, which, as I said, I think is overwhelmingly likely, then I think we will see serious investigations of the Biden administration.

00:42:28.860 We will see oversight, which is Congress's responsibility.

00:42:32.920 But with Democrats in control, they have no interest in actually engaging in real oversight.

00:42:37.300 And if we take the Senate, I hope we see the Senate engaging similarly in real oversight with teeth.

00:42:43.640 And, Michael, this is a pretty interesting question.

00:42:45.880 So as we close out this year of verdict, it's worth noting that every year of verdict so far, Trump has been impeached.

00:42:52.140 There hasn't yet been a year of verdict without a Trump impeachment.

00:42:55.620 Do you expect to see that in the upcoming year?

00:42:58.900 Yes, I do expect them to impeach Trump again.

00:43:01.100 I'm not sure how they're going to do it, but I think they'll probably find a way, even though he's out of office.

00:43:05.800 The guy could probably be dead for about 50 years and they'll still be impeaching him.

00:43:09.540 Senator, since you're the only one of us who holds a federal office, I'll flip it around to Joe Biden.

00:43:14.660 Do you think there's any chance that a Republican House would impeach President Biden?

00:43:18.720 Yeah, I do think there's a chance of that.

00:43:20.820 And whether it's justified or not, as we talked about when verdict launched, the Democrats weaponized impeachment.

00:43:29.820 They used it for partisan purposes to go after Trump because they disagreed with him.

00:43:34.000 And one of the real disadvantages of doing that, and this is something you and I talked about at great length,

00:43:39.420 is the more you weaponize it and turn it into a partisan cudgel, you know, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

00:43:47.080 I said at the time, when we have a Democratic president and a Republican House, you can expect an impeachment proceeding.

00:43:53.300 That's not how impeachment is meant to work, but I think the Democrats cross that line.

00:43:59.300 I think there'll be enormous pressure on a Republican House to begin impeachment proceedings.

00:44:06.060 I think there are potentially multiple grounds to consider for impeachment.

00:44:11.080 Probably the most compelling is the utter lawlessness of of President Biden's refusal to enforce the border.

00:44:19.360 His his decision to just defy federal immigration laws and allow two million people to come here unimpeded in direct contravention of his obligation under Article two of the Constitution to take care that the laws be faithfully executed.

00:44:34.920 That's probably the strongest grounds right now for impeachment, but there may be others.

00:44:39.340 And and because the Democrats decided this is just another tool in the partisan war chest, I think there's a real risk that that that that turnabout will be fair play.

00:44:51.840 And that's going to be interesting to watch. So as we close out 2021, I mean, we're closing out with Senator Manchin saying no to build back broke, as you say.

00:45:00.140 Looking ahead to 2022, do you have any predictions politically of what we can expect, even even before the midterm elections actually happen, just political policy, anything from Congress, the White House, the Supreme Court?

00:45:11.500 What do you expect to see in 2022?

00:45:13.920 I think we will see more terrible nominees. I think we will see more terrible judicial nominees.

00:45:19.040 It's striking how the Biden nominees, they're not picking centrist. They're going hard left.

00:45:24.660 The judges they're putting forward are hard left wing activists.

00:45:28.760 The nominees they're putting in in the executive branch are, by and large, hard left wing activists.

00:45:34.640 I think we'll see a lot of that. I think we'll see Schumer trying to ram through more bad policy.

00:45:40.220 And sadly, even though Manchin said no to build back broke, he's a Democrat.

00:45:45.640 Kyrsten Sinema is a Democrat. And I think they will vote for bad bills next year that do harm.

00:45:51.460 I think you'll see more spending. I think you will see bad policy enacted.

00:45:57.840 I am hopeful they don't end the filibuster. And if they don't end the filibuster, we won't see D.C.

00:46:04.080 and Puerto Rico become a state. We won't see the Corrupt Politicians Act, the federal seizure of

00:46:11.600 elections pass into law, and we won't see them pass pack the U.S. Supreme Court. So in terms of big

00:46:18.660 structural harms, those won't happen. But we may well see we probably will see trillions more in

00:46:25.780 spending and potentially trillions more in taxes, too. Right. And of course, everybody's eyes the entire

00:46:30.700 year will be on the midterm election. So even the policies and the politics will reflect that.

00:46:36.340 As a reminder, if you want to ask Senator Cruz a question, Michael Knowles a question or me a

00:46:40.200 question, you can do so at verdictwithtedcruise.com slash plus for the very cheap, very inexpensive

00:46:45.360 price of fifty six dollars a year. You could become an annual subscriber. It is the cheapest price

00:46:49.580 that we are going to offer. And you can get it between now and January 15th. Michael, I will hand

00:46:53.820 it back to you. How wonderful that as we head into what President Biden is calling

00:46:58.820 a winter of severe illness and death. We have got some real wins, some real tangible wins. And

00:47:06.100 the host of this show happened to be there and happened to be causing some of those wins

00:47:10.760 last Friday night. So that's a wonderful thing. Something to be grateful for. We're very grateful

00:47:15.520 for all of you who have listened to the show for two years now. Looking forward to seeing you next

00:47:19.640 year. I'm Michael Knowles. This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:47:28.820 By the way, don't forget our tremendous giveaway in honor of the two year anniversary of Verdict.

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00:49:40.740 PAC, a political action committee dedicated to supporting conservative causes, organizations,

00:49:46.160 and candidates across the country. In 2022, Jobs Freedom and Security PAC plans to donate to

00:49:52.180 conservative candidates running for Congress and help the Republican Party across the nation.

00:49:57.120 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.

Verdict with Ted Cruz - December 31, 2021

Build Back Broke Bombshell

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