Verdict with Ted Cruz - April 05, 2025


Congress Grills NPR, a Filibuster Showdown & Behind the Tariffs Week In Review


Episode Stats

Length

39 minutes

Words per Minute

175.56708

Word Count

6,904

Sentence Count

206

Misogynist Sentences

7

Hate Speech Sentences

6


Summary

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) takes you behind the scenes to take you behind-the-scenes to see what's going on with his colleagues when it comes to the tariff situation. He also talks about NPR's CEO and PBS's CEO's arrogant, out-of-touch testimony before Congress, and a senator who stayed up all day and all night to filibuster his vote.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.640 Guaranteed human.
00:00:04.520 Welcome, it is Verdict with Ted Cruz.
00:00:06.420 A week in review.
00:00:07.640 Ben Ferguson with you, and here are the big stories
00:00:09.560 that you may have missed that we talked about this week.
00:00:11.980 First up, NPR was in front of Congress
00:00:15.800 having to answer questions about all the government funds
00:00:19.120 that are going to their organization.
00:00:21.400 You're going to be shocked what the CEO had to say
00:00:23.720 and how out of touch they were with reality.
00:00:27.020 Also, you had a filibuster that happened this week,
00:00:30.580 but what was it over?
00:00:31.920 Well, that's the funny part.
00:00:33.540 We'll give you the details of one senator
00:00:35.860 that decided to stay up all day and all night
00:00:38.140 to filibuster your vote.
00:00:40.500 And finally, Senator Cruz takes you behind the scenes
00:00:44.020 so you understand exactly what's going on with his colleagues
00:00:47.100 when it comes to the tariff situation.
00:00:49.760 It's the Weekend Review, and it starts right now.
00:00:53.120 Which brings us to another aspect of this,
00:00:55.960 and that was what happened in Congress last week
00:00:58.580 with NPR's CEO and PBS's CEO there in front of Congress
00:01:04.700 having to deal with what Doge is doing,
00:01:07.520 which is cutting waste, fraud, and abuse,
00:01:11.140 and it did not go very well for those CEOs.
00:01:14.320 It reminded me an awful lot, Senator,
00:01:17.100 of when the presidents of the Ivy League schools
00:01:21.100 had to come and answer questions
00:01:22.900 about anti-Semitism on college campuses
00:01:25.180 after the attacks on Israel,
00:01:27.940 and people were just in shock how radical they were
00:01:31.280 and how they were not stopping it.
00:01:33.000 It was very reminiscent of that with NPR's CEO,
00:01:36.940 very arrogant, PBS CEO, very arrogant,
00:01:39.240 like, this is what we do.
00:01:40.300 We take your money, we put out propaganda,
00:01:42.460 so sue us.
00:01:43.740 That's what we've been doing forever.
00:01:45.120 Well, and Catherine Maher, who's the CEO of NPR,
00:01:49.700 is arrogant, drippingly arrogant.
00:01:53.020 She is hard left, and it was exactly like it.
00:01:57.240 You're right.
00:01:57.960 The president of Harvard, the president of Penn,
00:02:00.080 both of whom lost their jobs
00:02:01.740 over their arrogant, out-of-touch testimony
00:02:05.060 before the House, where she is,
00:02:08.280 look, she's a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.
00:02:11.120 She worked for UNICEF.
00:02:12.320 She worked for the National Democratic Institute.
00:02:14.980 She worked for the World Bank and Access Now.
00:02:17.140 She worked for Wikimedia Foundation.
00:02:20.180 She joined the Atlantic Council.
00:02:22.140 She was part of the Department of State's
00:02:23.940 Foreign Affairs Policy Board.
00:02:25.960 She is a hard leftist,
00:02:28.340 but look, don't take my word for it.
00:02:30.800 Listen to it out of her own mouth,
00:02:33.040 and I want you to listen in particular
00:02:34.620 for this back and forth with Brandon Gill.
00:02:39.160 Brandon Gill is a freshman House member from Texas.
00:02:43.080 He's a good friend.
00:02:44.020 I campaigned hard for Brandon.
00:02:46.720 I endorsed him in the primary.
00:02:48.080 Brandon is a rising star in the House.
00:02:50.260 And just listen to this back and forth
00:02:51.900 as he questions her
00:02:53.080 and hangs her on her own petard
00:02:56.100 with her own words.
00:02:57.200 Give a listen.
00:02:58.120 Do you believe that America
00:02:59.060 is addicted to white supremacy?
00:03:01.800 I believe that I tweeted that,
00:03:03.880 and as I've said earlier,
00:03:05.080 I believe much of my thinking
00:03:06.160 has evolved over the last half decade.
00:03:08.780 It has evolved.
00:03:09.100 Okay, stop, stop, stop, stop.
00:03:11.240 I want you to notice something she says there.
00:03:13.780 Much of my thinking has evolved
00:03:15.580 over the last half decade.
00:03:19.020 Ben, what's a half decade?
00:03:20.680 Five years.
00:03:21.680 That would be five years.
00:03:22.620 Doesn't a half decade sound long?
00:03:24.360 I believe much of my thinking
00:03:25.900 has evolved over the last half decade.
00:03:28.420 Oh, crap!
00:03:29.120 What I said five years ago?
00:03:30.400 Uh-oh, no, that's a real problem.
00:03:31.800 Run away, run away.
00:03:32.560 All right, go back to what he's playing with
00:03:34.220 that has evolved.
00:03:34.860 I just, like, that comment,
00:03:37.140 her idiocy only gets worse.
00:03:38.480 It made me laugh.
00:03:38.960 As soon as I heard, I was like,
00:03:40.040 this is not going well.
00:03:41.260 Keep listening.
00:03:41.740 It gets worse.
00:03:42.960 Why did you tweet that?
00:03:44.300 I don't recall the exact context, sir,
00:03:46.660 so I wouldn't be able to say.
00:03:48.100 Okay.
00:03:48.920 Do you believe that America believes
00:03:50.540 in black plunder and white democracy?
00:03:53.240 I don't believe that, sir.
00:03:56.140 You tweeted that in reference
00:03:57.820 to a book you were reading at the time,
00:03:59.800 apparently, The Case for Reparations.
00:04:02.240 I don't think I've ever read that book, sir.
00:04:04.220 You tweeted about it.
00:04:06.600 You said you took a day off
00:04:08.280 to fully read the case for reparations.
00:04:10.600 You put that on Twitter in January of 2020.
00:04:13.720 I apologize.
00:04:14.520 I don't recall that I did.
00:04:15.840 Okay.
00:04:16.340 I have no doubt that your tweet there is correct,
00:04:19.560 but I don't recall that.
00:04:20.660 Okay.
00:04:21.480 Do you believe that white people
00:04:22.780 inherently feel superior to other races?
00:04:25.420 I do not.
00:04:26.300 You don't?
00:04:26.800 You tweeted something to that effect.
00:04:28.780 You said, I grew up feeling superior.
00:04:31.220 Ha, how white of me.
00:04:32.700 Why did you tweet that?
00:04:34.240 I think I was probably reflecting on
00:04:36.200 what it was to grow up in an environment
00:04:39.940 where I had lots of advantages.
00:04:41.500 It sounds like you're saying
00:04:42.840 that white people feel superior.
00:04:44.640 I don't believe that anybody feels that way, sir.
00:04:47.560 I was just reflecting on my own experiences.
00:04:49.500 Do you think that white people
00:04:50.420 should pay reparations?
00:04:51.780 I have never said that, sir.
00:04:53.840 Yes, you did.
00:04:54.880 You said it in January of 2020.
00:04:56.860 You tweeted,
00:04:57.260 Yes, the North.
00:04:58.640 Yes, all of us.
00:04:59.420 Yes, America.
00:05:00.680 Yes, our original collective sin and unpaid debt.
00:05:03.520 Yes, reparations.
00:05:04.740 Yes, on this day.
00:05:05.940 I don't believe that was a reference
00:05:07.020 to fiscal reparations, sir.
00:05:08.880 What kind of reparations was it a reference to?
00:05:11.100 I think it was just a reference to the idea
00:05:12.740 that we all owe much to the people who came before us.
00:05:15.860 That's a bizarre way to frame what you tweeted.
00:05:20.860 Okay, how much reparations have you personally paid?
00:05:25.260 Sir, I don't believe that I've ever paid reparations.
00:05:29.260 Okay, just for everybody else.
00:05:31.100 I'm not asking anyone to pay reparations.
00:05:32.440 Seems to be what you're suggesting.
00:05:34.480 Do you believe that looting is morally wrong?
00:05:36.460 I believe that looting is illegal,
00:05:38.540 and I refer to it as counterproductive.
00:05:40.240 I think it should be prosecuted.
00:05:41.240 Do you believe it's morally wrong, though?
00:05:43.020 Of course.
00:05:43.780 Of course.
00:05:44.260 Then why did you refer to it as counterproductive?
00:05:47.100 It's a very different way to describe it.
00:05:49.960 It is both morally wrong and counterproductive,
00:05:52.480 as well as being illegal.
00:05:53.320 You tweeted,
00:05:53.720 it's hard to be mad about protests
00:05:55.680 in reference to the BLM protests
00:05:58.060 not prioritizing the private property
00:06:00.660 of a system of oppression.
00:06:03.400 You didn't condemn the looting.
00:06:04.640 You said that it was counterproductive.
00:06:07.420 NPR also promoted a book called
00:06:10.300 In Defense of Looting.
00:06:11.480 Do you think that that's an appropriate
00:06:12.540 use of taxpayer dollars?
00:06:14.260 I'm unfamiliar with that book, sir.
00:06:16.300 And I don't believe that was at my time at MPR.
00:06:18.220 You tweeted that you read that book, but...
00:06:20.220 I don't believe that I did read that book.
00:06:22.080 It's amazing.
00:06:23.320 She tweeted that she read the book.
00:06:25.060 She's like,
00:06:25.360 I don't believe that I ever read that book.
00:06:27.660 So you're either lying now,
00:06:29.320 or you're lying,
00:06:30.360 what, a half a decade ago,
00:06:32.220 if she likes to describe it.
00:06:33.320 Right, Senator?
00:06:33.840 Look, that is a crushingly effective cross-examination.
00:06:40.800 And if you look at...
00:06:43.800 She is running away from everything she's ever said,
00:06:47.660 everything she's ever believed,
00:06:48.860 because it is indefensible.
00:06:50.540 When she says,
00:06:51.740 you know,
00:06:52.360 she claimed on Twitter,
00:06:54.160 she took an entire day off
00:06:55.460 to read a book on reparations.
00:06:56.740 It was so important that she devoted a day of her,
00:06:58.680 and now she has no recollection.
00:06:59.960 I'm sorry,
00:07:00.480 I, you know,
00:07:01.580 this will be before you were watching TV,
00:07:04.400 but there was an old series.
00:07:05.540 You ever watch Hogan's Heroes?
00:07:07.080 Yeah, oh gosh, yes.
00:07:08.220 Okay, well, do you remember Sergeant Schultz?
00:07:10.440 Yes.
00:07:11.180 Sergeant Schultz, he would say,
00:07:12.440 I see nothing!
00:07:13.540 I hear nothing!
00:07:14.880 That is Catherine Maher.
00:07:16.860 She sees nothing.
00:07:18.100 She hears nothing.
00:07:19.960 And yet,
00:07:21.500 this is someone charged
00:07:23.540 with spending millions of taxpayer dollars
00:07:26.820 running what is a left-wing propaganda network.
00:07:30.580 You know,
00:07:31.740 her statement,
00:07:32.480 I've never called for reparations.
00:07:34.760 I gotta say,
00:07:35.560 Brandon, I think,
00:07:36.160 does a fabulous job.
00:07:36.920 Well, yes, you did.
00:07:37.840 Let me read you the tweet.
00:07:38.860 And she says,
00:07:39.560 reparations, yes.
00:07:40.620 Oh, oh, well,
00:07:41.460 well, other than when I called for reparations,
00:07:43.420 but I haven't called for it
00:07:44.220 other than when I've called for it.
00:07:45.780 But, but, but,
00:07:46.860 no, no,
00:07:47.240 it's not fiscal reparations.
00:07:48.960 It's, I mean,
00:07:49.920 I mean,
00:07:50.580 I mean repairing the tires on their cars.
00:07:52.620 That's the,
00:07:52.900 those are the reparations.
00:07:54.260 I, I mean,
00:07:55.040 she has no answer
00:07:57.880 because her answer
00:07:59.740 is
00:08:00.660 she desperately wants to run away
00:08:03.320 from everything she has ever said or done.
00:08:05.960 But, but let me actually,
00:08:08.720 let's actually go to something else
00:08:10.640 that, that, that she said and did.
00:08:12.860 Which is,
00:08:14.280 what do you think
00:08:15.460 she has cited
00:08:16.600 as the number one challenge
00:08:18.360 that is facing,
00:08:21.720 that is facing journalism right now?
00:08:25.760 Knowing this woman,
00:08:28.900 have no idea.
00:08:31.060 Okay.
00:08:31.700 Here, here is a quote from her
00:08:33.360 at a panel
00:08:33.960 at the Atlantic Council Research Lab.
00:08:36.380 Quote,
00:08:37.060 the number one challenge
00:08:38.200 that we see here
00:08:39.100 is, of course,
00:08:40.680 the First Amendment
00:08:41.620 in the United States.
00:08:43.380 It's, it's so,
00:08:44.920 like,
00:08:45.440 it's so on brand for her
00:08:47.180 that it's almost unbelievable.
00:08:48.600 Though,
00:08:48.880 like a woman who says
00:08:50.120 that she believes in,
00:08:51.720 in the public
00:08:52.640 and radio
00:08:53.760 and free speech
00:08:55.020 says that's the real problem
00:08:56.820 is,
00:08:57.200 is the First Amendment.
00:08:58.760 In fact,
00:08:59.280 Senator,
00:08:59.660 here's the NPR CEO
00:09:00.780 in her own words
00:09:01.880 saying exactly that.
00:09:03.540 The number one challenge here
00:09:04.940 that we,
00:09:05.440 we see
00:09:06.000 is, of course,
00:09:07.100 the First Amendment
00:09:07.760 in the United States
00:09:08.820 is a fairly robust
00:09:10.680 protection of rights.
00:09:13.720 And,
00:09:14.320 and that is
00:09:15.120 a protection of rights
00:09:15.840 both for platforms,
00:09:16.620 which I actually think
00:09:17.180 is very important
00:09:17.880 that platforms
00:09:18.440 have those rights
00:09:19.140 to be able to regulate
00:09:20.120 what kind of content
00:09:21.080 they want on their sites.
00:09:22.560 But it also means
00:09:23.660 that it is a little bit tricky
00:09:24.800 to really address
00:09:25.640 some of the real challenges
00:09:27.480 of where does
00:09:28.820 bad information come from
00:09:30.300 and sort of the influence
00:09:31.320 peddlers who have made
00:09:32.200 a real market economy
00:09:33.100 around it.
00:09:33.820 I mean,
00:09:34.200 you listen to her
00:09:35.000 and it's just amazing.
00:09:36.880 If we could just
00:09:38.160 do what we want
00:09:39.220 and get rid of everything
00:09:40.300 we don't want
00:09:41.200 and silence anybody
00:09:42.840 that says something
00:09:43.440 that is disagreeing with us
00:09:45.420 then everything
00:09:46.280 would be fine
00:09:47.100 in media
00:09:48.100 and with our government,
00:09:49.720 right?
00:09:49.900 We could just control
00:09:50.940 everybody
00:09:51.520 and shut everybody down
00:09:52.940 we don't like.
00:09:53.620 That is the NPR CEO
00:09:55.060 saying it.
00:09:56.160 Look,
00:09:56.680 the left believes
00:09:57.620 in censorship.
00:09:58.540 They don't believe
00:09:59.400 in journalism.
00:10:00.100 They don't believe
00:10:00.520 in media.
00:10:00.980 They believe
00:10:01.280 in propaganda.
00:10:02.680 And you and I
00:10:03.280 on this podcast
00:10:04.120 covered last year
00:10:05.520 a story that was written
00:10:08.200 in the free press
00:10:09.300 by Yuri Berliner
00:10:10.600 and it was in April of 24
00:10:12.660 and it was entitled
00:10:14.140 I've been at NPR
00:10:15.640 for 25 years.
00:10:16.940 Here's how we lost
00:10:17.820 America's trust.
00:10:18.620 I just want to read
00:10:19.240 the beginning of it again
00:10:20.040 because we did
00:10:20.720 a good chunk
00:10:21.200 of a podcast
00:10:21.680 just on this story
00:10:22.920 but it really sets up
00:10:24.440 the absolute disaster
00:10:26.220 that is NPR today.
00:10:27.400 Here's how
00:10:27.940 Uri Berliner began.
00:10:30.160 You know the stereotype
00:10:31.320 of the NPR lister.
00:10:32.840 An EV driving,
00:10:33.920 wordle playing,
00:10:34.740 tote bag carrying,
00:10:35.680 coastal elite.
00:10:36.880 It doesn't precisely
00:10:37.840 describe me
00:10:38.520 but it's not far off.
00:10:40.080 I'm Sarah Lawrence educated,
00:10:41.720 was raised by a lesbian
00:10:42.980 peace activist mother.
00:10:44.140 I drive a Subaru
00:10:45.540 and Spotify says
00:10:47.280 my listening habits
00:10:48.280 are most similar
00:10:49.020 to people in Berkeley.
00:10:51.360 I fit the NPR mold.
00:10:52.980 I'll cop to that.
00:10:54.140 So when I got a job here
00:10:55.080 25 years ago
00:10:55.920 I never looked back.
00:10:56.880 As a senior editor
00:10:57.640 on the business desk
00:10:58.560 where news is always breaking
00:10:59.800 we've covered up
00:11:00.760 peebles in the workplace,
00:11:01.820 supermarket prices,
00:11:02.780 social media and AI.
00:11:04.340 It's true NPR
00:11:05.360 always had a liberal bent
00:11:06.540 but during most
00:11:07.600 of my tenure here
00:11:08.480 an open-minded
00:11:09.200 curious culture prevailed.
00:11:11.140 We were nerdy,
00:11:12.120 not knee-jerk,
00:11:12.920 activist or scolding.
00:11:14.500 In recent years,
00:11:15.700 however,
00:11:16.140 that has changed.
00:11:17.660 Today,
00:11:18.220 those who listen to NPR
00:11:19.360 or read its coverage online
00:11:20.780 find something different.
00:11:22.520 The distilled worldview
00:11:23.700 of a very small segment
00:11:25.900 of the U.S. population.
00:11:27.740 If you are a conservative
00:11:29.100 you will read this
00:11:30.440 and say
00:11:30.960 duh
00:11:31.920 it's always been this way.
00:11:34.080 But it hasn't.
00:11:35.340 For decades
00:11:35.900 since its founding in 1970
00:11:37.400 a wide swath of America
00:11:38.760 turned into NPR
00:11:40.000 for reliable journalism
00:11:41.480 and gorgeous audio pieces
00:11:42.960 with birds singing
00:11:43.880 in the Amazon.
00:11:45.340 Millions came to us
00:11:46.320 for conversations
00:11:47.100 that exposed us
00:11:47.940 to voices around the country
00:11:49.140 and the world
00:11:49.640 radically different
00:11:50.680 from our own
00:11:51.360 engaging precisely
00:11:53.040 because they were
00:11:53.980 unguarded and unpredictable.
00:11:55.820 No image generated
00:11:56.920 more pride within NPR
00:11:58.560 than the farmer
00:11:59.340 listening to morning edition
00:12:00.580 from his or her tractor
00:12:01.940 at sunrise.
00:12:03.320 Back in 2011
00:12:04.760 although NPR's audiences
00:12:06.560 tilted a bit to the left
00:12:08.340 it still bore
00:12:09.740 a resemblance
00:12:10.440 to America at large.
00:12:12.340 26% of listeners
00:12:13.740 described themselves
00:12:14.560 as conservative
00:12:15.280 23% as middle of the road
00:12:17.620 and 37% as liberal.
00:12:20.000 By 2023
00:12:20.900 the picture was
00:12:21.880 completely different.
00:12:23.380 Only 11%
00:12:24.280 described themselves
00:12:25.320 as very or somewhat conservative
00:12:27.460 21% as middle of the road
00:12:29.900 and 67% of listeners
00:12:31.500 said they were
00:12:32.060 very or somewhat liberal.
00:12:33.780 We weren't just losing conservatives
00:12:35.640 we were also losing moderates
00:12:37.340 and traditional liberals.
00:12:39.080 An open-minded spirit
00:12:40.640 no longer exists
00:12:41.900 within NPR
00:12:42.720 and now
00:12:43.640 predictably
00:12:44.900 we don't have an audience
00:12:46.140 that reflects America.
00:12:47.920 Now if you want to hear
00:12:48.860 the rest of this conversation
00:12:50.380 you can go back
00:12:51.380 and listen to the full podcast
00:12:52.780 from earlier this week.
00:12:54.840 Canadian women
00:12:55.680 are looking for more.
00:12:57.060 More out of themselves
00:12:57.820 their businesses
00:12:58.660 their elected leaders
00:12:59.780 and the world around them.
00:13:01.200 And that's why we're thrilled
00:13:02.160 to introduce
00:13:02.800 the Honest Talk podcast.
00:13:04.500 I'm Jennifer Stewart
00:13:05.840 and I'm Catherine Clark
00:13:07.060 and in this podcast
00:13:08.280 we interview Canada's
00:13:09.440 most inspiring women
00:13:10.740 entrepreneurs
00:13:11.300 artists
00:13:12.200 athletes
00:13:12.860 politicians
00:13:13.500 and newsmakers
00:13:14.380 all at different stages
00:13:15.680 of their journey.
00:13:16.860 So if you're looking to connect
00:13:18.400 then we hope you'll join us.
00:13:20.060 Listen to the Honest Talk podcast
00:13:21.440 on iHeartRadio
00:13:22.440 or wherever you listen
00:13:23.420 to your podcasts.
00:13:25.880 Now on to story number two.
00:13:28.200 All right Senator
00:13:28.720 so let's move to another
00:13:30.580 very interesting moment.
00:13:31.940 One of your colleagues
00:13:32.900 in the Senate
00:13:33.500 decided he was going
00:13:35.100 to take away
00:13:36.060 your record
00:13:37.680 on a filibuster.
00:13:39.140 You guys were very different
00:13:40.780 in why you were filibustering
00:13:42.280 but he did beat
00:13:43.440 your record today
00:13:44.320 and you even posted
00:13:45.620 something that was
00:13:46.460 hilarious online as well.
00:13:48.900 Well Cory Booker
00:13:49.680 Democrat from New Jersey
00:13:50.880 has now set the record
00:13:52.580 for the longest speech
00:13:53.760 in history
00:13:54.540 on the Senate floor
00:13:55.820 and he spoke
00:13:56.720 for 25 hours
00:13:57.980 and four minutes
00:13:59.380 and so it was
00:14:00.860 it was incredibly long
00:14:03.140 it surpassed
00:14:05.080 the record
00:14:06.380 had been held
00:14:07.640 by Strom Thurmond
00:14:09.100 who spoke
00:14:10.960 for 24 hours
00:14:11.940 and 18 minutes
00:14:12.860 in 1957
00:14:14.020 and he was
00:14:15.440 he was filibustering
00:14:17.180 Strom Thurmond
00:14:17.780 was filibustering
00:14:18.480 the 1957 Civil Rights Act
00:14:20.420 and that
00:14:21.600 that had been
00:14:22.200 been the record
00:14:22.960 until
00:14:23.580 until last night
00:14:24.960 when Cory Booker
00:14:26.260 broke it.
00:14:27.500 Now fourth
00:14:28.580 all time
00:14:29.360 is yours truly
00:14:32.740 I used to be
00:14:33.700 third all time
00:14:34.600 but
00:14:35.800 but Cory
00:14:36.560 knocked me down
00:14:37.600 and and and so
00:14:38.640 so
00:14:39.500 my record
00:14:40.820 in in 2013
00:14:42.200 I spoke on the Senate floor
00:14:43.660 for 21 hours
00:14:44.780 and and 19 minutes
00:14:46.420 and and so
00:14:48.280 Cory Cory just beat me
00:14:49.400 I will say
00:14:50.320 I I tweeted out
00:14:51.960 right before
00:14:53.680 he he broke my record
00:14:55.340 and so I took to Twitter
00:14:57.280 and and tweeted out
00:14:58.460 as Cory Booker
00:14:59.820 approaches my 21 hour
00:15:01.300 filibuster record
00:15:02.280 I'm contemplating
00:15:03.800 pulling the fire alarm
00:15:05.380 hat tip
00:15:06.480 Jamal Bowman
00:15:07.180 and I sent out a picture
00:15:08.400 of Jamal Bowman
00:15:09.340 the Democrat congressman
00:15:11.000 pulling the fire alarm
00:15:11.960 in the Capitol
00:15:12.520 uh to to avoid a vote
00:15:14.280 and and and and I will say
00:15:15.800 that that that
00:15:16.660 that tweet went viral
00:15:18.100 and in fact
00:15:18.860 Cory ended up
00:15:20.020 at the end of his
00:15:21.300 his 25 hour filibuster
00:15:22.980 reading that tweet
00:15:24.280 uh on the Senate floor
00:15:26.300 uh which which was uh
00:15:29.040 uh which I enjoyed
00:15:31.420 and I I actually like
00:15:32.500 Cory and he and I are friends
00:15:33.580 and so I'm glad he read it
00:15:34.620 and I I will say
00:15:35.440 in my uh 2013 filibuster
00:15:38.940 I read a number of tweets
00:15:41.060 on the Senate floor
00:15:42.000 and I believe
00:15:42.840 that was the first time
00:15:44.140 in history
00:15:44.820 a tweet had ever been read
00:15:47.260 on the Senate floor
00:15:48.000 and I read a whole bunch
00:15:49.000 of them
00:15:49.440 uh now
00:15:50.620 there is a significant
00:15:52.740 difference
00:15:53.360 uh between
00:15:54.660 what what what I was
00:15:55.880 filibustering over
00:15:56.760 and what Cory Booker
00:15:57.740 was filibustering over
00:15:58.680 uh what I was
00:15:59.900 filibustering over
00:16:00.860 was Obamacare
00:16:02.080 and and I was doing so
00:16:04.380 because it was right
00:16:05.420 when Obamacare
00:16:06.120 was going into effect
00:16:07.180 and and I was trying
00:16:09.180 to stop it
00:16:09.720 from going into effect
00:16:10.660 because the American people
00:16:12.120 it was having the effect
00:16:13.360 of driving up
00:16:14.080 premiums dramatically
00:16:15.720 reducing choices
00:16:17.000 Barack Obama
00:16:18.340 famously said
00:16:19.340 if you like your doctor
00:16:20.220 you can keep your doctor
00:16:21.220 and and millions
00:16:21.880 of Americans discovered
00:16:22.880 that was not the case
00:16:23.740 that was a lie
00:16:24.460 in fact
00:16:24.860 PolitiFact named
00:16:26.420 Barack Obama's
00:16:27.680 if you like your doctor
00:16:28.440 you can keep your doctor
00:16:29.440 the lie of the year
00:16:30.820 and and for them
00:16:32.100 to admit a Democrat
00:16:32.860 is lying
00:16:33.700 is really quite remarkable
00:16:34.680 because PolitiFact
00:16:35.580 lies for a living
00:16:36.400 uh and and so
00:16:37.960 that filibuster
00:16:40.840 when it when I did it
00:16:41.980 in 2013
00:16:42.540 I was a brand new
00:16:43.640 baby freshman
00:16:44.360 and and it was
00:16:46.520 the the theme
00:16:47.520 of the filibuster
00:16:48.200 was make DC listen
00:16:49.560 and and and I will tell you
00:16:51.980 it it had
00:16:53.000 it it had a significant effect
00:16:56.540 um and and in fact
00:16:58.800 it it energized people
00:17:02.040 across the country
00:17:02.840 and I'll point to what
00:17:03.580 the effect was
00:17:04.500 in 2014
00:17:05.380 the next year
00:17:07.520 we had an election
00:17:08.960 and it was a tsunami election
00:17:11.880 Republicans ended up winning
00:17:14.000 nine Senate seats
00:17:15.560 we retired Harry Reid
00:17:17.980 as majority leader
00:17:18.900 and we ended up winning
00:17:20.660 the biggest majority
00:17:21.920 in the House of Representatives
00:17:23.040 since 1928
00:17:24.260 and if you look at exit polling
00:17:25.880 in that 2014 election
00:17:29.420 the number one issue
00:17:30.940 in the country
00:17:31.500 according to the voters
00:17:32.380 that were turning out
00:17:33.420 in massive numbers
00:17:34.240 was Obamacare
00:17:35.080 and they were saying
00:17:35.980 finally finally
00:17:37.140 you're fighting
00:17:37.900 finally Republicans
00:17:38.900 are not rolling over
00:17:39.920 and and so that
00:17:41.140 that had I think
00:17:42.000 a very significant effect
00:17:43.460 on election day
00:17:44.380 and and and helped
00:17:45.300 win back
00:17:46.620 both the Senate
00:17:47.500 and House
00:17:47.840 for Republicans
00:17:48.500 I don't think
00:17:49.900 Cory Booker's
00:17:50.520 is going to have
00:17:51.080 that same effect
00:17:51.840 and and and in fact
00:17:52.960 listen I don't know
00:17:54.620 how many people
00:17:55.120 watched it
00:17:55.660 I I suspect
00:17:56.520 like the
00:17:57.740 that CNN
00:17:58.900 and MSNBC
00:17:59.760 was probably gushing
00:18:00.700 about it
00:18:01.140 but I'll confess
00:18:01.680 I didn't turn on
00:18:02.540 CNN or MSNBC
00:18:03.640 so I don't know
00:18:05.340 one way or the other
00:18:06.080 I don't particularly care
00:18:07.260 the the the seven rabid
00:18:09.080 partisans who watch
00:18:10.040 those networks
00:18:10.700 probably were quite
00:18:12.080 happy with it
00:18:12.780 but at the end
00:18:14.480 of the day
00:18:15.060 look what was
00:18:16.100 Cory Booker talking
00:18:17.520 about as as best
00:18:18.680 I can tell
00:18:19.360 it was I hate
00:18:20.480 Donald Trump
00:18:21.140 I'm a Democrat
00:18:21.980 Trump bad
00:18:23.300 orange man bad
00:18:24.320 I'm mad at the voters
00:18:25.580 why did the voters
00:18:26.260 elect Trump
00:18:26.960 why did the voters
00:18:27.740 elect a Republican
00:18:29.460 Senate
00:18:29.800 why did the voters
00:18:30.480 elect a Republican
00:18:31.300 House
00:18:31.760 gosh I'm mad
00:18:32.600 at the voters
00:18:33.140 gosh I hate Trump
00:18:34.180 I I'm not sure
00:18:36.020 there's anything
00:18:36.500 new there
00:18:37.140 I I'm not sure
00:18:38.500 was there a person
00:18:41.140 in America
00:18:42.000 who was confused
00:18:44.020 yesterday
00:18:44.800 and and didn't know
00:18:46.280 that that that
00:18:47.020 that Senate Democrats
00:18:48.060 hate Donald Trump
00:18:48.900 like like was there
00:18:49.640 any new information
00:18:51.740 in it
00:18:52.200 and and and and
00:18:52.960 so I've got to say
00:18:53.780 I I'm skeptical
00:18:55.320 uh that that it's
00:18:57.100 going to have
00:18:57.500 a meaningful impact
00:18:58.700 and and I'll point out
00:18:59.560 it's not just me
00:19:00.300 who who said
00:19:01.240 said that
00:19:01.980 um take a listen
00:19:03.980 to to what
00:19:05.140 Joe Biden's
00:19:06.380 communications director
00:19:07.900 uh Kate
00:19:08.940 Bedingfield
00:19:09.660 uh said about
00:19:11.060 Cory Booker's
00:19:11.660 speech
00:19:11.980 the Democratic
00:19:13.240 base and Democratic
00:19:14.500 donors are looking
00:19:15.580 for signs of life
00:19:16.720 and so I think
00:19:18.220 what Senator Booker
00:19:19.260 is giving them
00:19:19.800 here are
00:19:20.480 is some signs
00:19:21.460 of life
00:19:21.840 is it going to
00:19:22.280 have a tangible
00:19:22.980 impact on business
00:19:24.120 I mean if he is
00:19:24.980 still alive
00:19:25.520 after this
00:19:25.980 it's not
00:19:26.280 it may have a
00:19:27.140 tangible impact
00:19:27.700 on Senator Booker
00:19:28.680 but it won't have
00:19:30.480 a tangible impact
00:19:31.080 on business
00:19:31.520 in Washington
00:19:32.040 I mean that's
00:19:33.720 CNN saying it
00:19:34.660 Senator
00:19:34.960 and look
00:19:35.740 it was
00:19:36.280 they changed
00:19:37.040 and that's
00:19:37.720 Biden's
00:19:38.180 communications director
00:19:39.180 it's Biden's
00:19:40.820 communication director
00:19:42.180 amazingly enough
00:19:43.240 and so
00:19:43.680 so look
00:19:44.660 Cory that's
00:19:45.320 that that's fine
00:19:46.420 now now I will
00:19:47.200 tell you
00:19:47.720 so it was funny
00:19:48.840 as as Booker
00:19:49.600 was giving his
00:19:50.320 his filibuster
00:19:51.160 reporters were
00:19:52.580 all running up
00:19:53.180 to me
00:19:53.440 and then they
00:19:53.900 they all knew
00:19:54.600 that that that
00:19:55.340 he was he
00:19:56.360 he was aiming
00:19:57.060 to beat my record
00:19:57.940 so they were
00:19:58.340 asking me about it
00:19:59.120 and they said
00:19:59.540 did you have
00:20:00.380 any advice
00:20:00.960 and I will
00:20:01.540 I will admit
00:20:02.120 Cory didn't ask
00:20:03.480 me for any advice
00:20:04.160 so no I did not
00:20:04.860 give him any
00:20:05.280 advice on this
00:20:06.140 but I did share
00:20:08.700 a story so when
00:20:09.520 I did the
00:20:09.920 filibuster
00:20:10.420 in in 2013
00:20:12.900 I had gotten
00:20:14.020 some advice
00:20:14.620 from Rand Paul
00:20:15.360 so Rand Paul
00:20:16.420 had done a 13
00:20:17.780 hour filibuster
00:20:18.560 and and I was
00:20:19.520 I was planning
00:20:20.120 to to do mine
00:20:21.220 and and and I
00:20:22.600 and Rand I asked
00:20:24.880 him hey Rand you
00:20:25.480 got any advice
00:20:26.060 because he'd just
00:20:26.580 done 13 hours
00:20:27.400 and he said
00:20:27.780 yeah two things
00:20:28.500 he said number
00:20:29.920 one wear
00:20:31.760 comfortable shoes
00:20:32.720 because he said
00:20:34.060 your feet and
00:20:34.680 your legs will
00:20:35.300 be killing you
00:20:36.160 and I will
00:20:37.720 confess I I
00:20:38.960 as you know
00:20:39.720 every day in
00:20:40.180 the Senate I
00:20:40.720 wear black
00:20:41.240 cowboy boots
00:20:42.020 the boots I
00:20:44.120 I wear alligator
00:20:45.700 boots and and
00:20:46.600 they have the
00:20:47.040 Senate seal on
00:20:47.700 the front and
00:20:48.760 on the back of
00:20:49.420 it they they
00:20:49.940 have the come
00:20:50.360 and take it
00:20:50.740 flag and and
00:20:51.920 so that's the
00:20:52.620 that's that's my
00:20:53.900 standard footwear
00:20:54.680 in the Senate
00:20:55.140 but for the
00:20:55.700 filibuster I
00:20:56.940 went to the
00:20:57.400 store and I
00:20:57.900 bought some
00:20:58.440 some black
00:20:59.100 tennis shoes
00:20:59.880 and and in
00:21:01.380 the middle of
00:21:01.820 the the
00:21:02.180 filibuster at
00:21:02.700 like two or
00:21:03.100 three in the
00:21:03.460 morning I
00:21:03.880 confessed to
00:21:04.460 the people of
00:21:04.960 Texas I
00:21:05.460 said look I
00:21:06.160 I have to I
00:21:07.480 I just have to
00:21:08.400 apologize to the
00:21:09.260 people of Texas
00:21:09.920 I'm sorry I
00:21:10.720 didn't have the
00:21:11.220 courage of my
00:21:11.740 convictions to
00:21:12.960 wear my boots
00:21:13.920 I I I weenied
00:21:15.320 out and got
00:21:16.360 black tennis shoes
00:21:17.200 but but I was
00:21:17.840 planning on standing
00:21:18.580 here for a
00:21:19.160 really long
00:21:19.640 time and and
00:21:20.860 so I will
00:21:21.280 admit the
00:21:21.660 tennis shoes are
00:21:22.380 are more
00:21:23.180 comfortable for
00:21:23.900 the marathon
00:21:24.620 time the
00:21:25.420 second bit of
00:21:26.160 advice ran
00:21:26.720 I gotta ask
00:21:27.460 you yeah I
00:21:28.440 gotta ask you
00:21:28.920 though when
00:21:29.300 you're picking
00:21:29.720 out the
00:21:30.000 tennis shoes
00:21:30.600 did you buy
00:21:31.260 brand new or
00:21:32.040 did you wear
00:21:32.480 them a little
00:21:33.040 bit beforehand
00:21:33.700 yeah I
00:21:34.400 didn't break
00:21:34.940 them in and
00:21:35.500 they were fine
00:21:36.060 and and I
00:21:36.660 don't think I've
00:21:37.100 ever worn them
00:21:37.680 since then like
00:21:38.580 I literally
00:21:39.020 that wore them
00:21:39.840 for the
00:21:40.180 filibuster and
00:21:40.720 that was it
00:21:41.160 but but
00:21:45.220 fortunately even
00:21:46.140 though they
00:21:46.420 were new
00:21:46.860 they they
00:21:47.920 were they
00:21:48.360 were pretty
00:21:48.620 comfortable
00:21:48.980 they were
00:21:49.600 not bad
00:21:49.980 at all
00:21:50.300 the second
00:21:52.120 bit of
00:21:52.460 advice ran
00:21:53.060 gave me
00:21:53.480 was was
00:21:53.940 if anything
00:21:54.320 even more
00:21:54.780 important
00:21:55.200 he said
00:21:56.320 drink very
00:21:58.000 little water
00:21:59.460 and in fact
00:22:00.660 ran said when
00:22:01.340 he ended at
00:22:01.840 13 hours he
00:22:02.680 said my legs
00:22:03.380 didn't take
00:22:04.020 me it didn't
00:22:04.880 make me give
00:22:05.440 in my bladder
00:22:06.040 did and and
00:22:07.740 the most
00:22:08.240 common question
00:22:09.420 that that I
00:22:11.100 would get about
00:22:11.660 the filibuster
00:22:12.240 is okay what
00:22:12.860 what do you do
00:22:13.540 about going to
00:22:14.100 the bathroom
00:22:14.540 and and the
00:22:15.120 real simple
00:22:15.560 answer is you
00:22:16.140 don't um so
00:22:18.200 the rules of a
00:22:18.900 filibuster uh you
00:22:20.660 have to stand you
00:22:21.640 cannot sit and
00:22:23.040 you have to stay
00:22:23.620 on the senate
00:22:24.060 floor if if you
00:22:24.980 sit or if you
00:22:25.940 leave the senate
00:22:26.620 floor you
00:22:27.620 relinquish the
00:22:28.340 floor and and
00:22:29.140 and so um and
00:22:31.480 that's why that's
00:22:32.300 why comfortable
00:22:32.740 shoes matter because
00:22:33.460 you're not allowed
00:22:34.080 you're technically
00:22:34.940 not even allowed to
00:22:35.880 lean on the desk
00:22:36.640 although that that
00:22:37.720 rule is not not
00:22:38.580 heavily enforced
00:22:39.260 you can lean a
00:22:40.040 little bit but
00:22:40.580 you can't uh uh
00:22:42.460 but but you
00:22:43.320 can't can't sit
00:22:44.520 and and legend
00:22:46.800 has it that
00:22:47.840 during strom
00:22:48.560 thurman's uh
00:22:50.160 filibuster that
00:22:52.220 that that he
00:22:52.900 had an aide
00:22:53.720 hold a bucket
00:22:54.520 in in in in
00:22:55.880 the senate cloak
00:22:56.600 room and and
00:22:58.000 and and he he
00:22:59.520 took a leak
00:23:00.900 while filibustering
00:23:02.980 while standing on
00:23:04.000 the senate floor
00:23:04.720 i i figured in
00:23:06.020 the in the era
00:23:06.740 of of
00:23:07.620 uh c-span
00:23:09.100 that probably
00:23:09.780 wasn't the
00:23:10.260 best idea
00:23:10.860 so so i was
00:23:11.620 not going to
00:23:12.040 do that
00:23:12.500 and so for
00:23:13.780 the entire
00:23:14.320 course of
00:23:15.100 of 21 plus
00:23:16.040 hours i drank
00:23:17.680 one tiny little
00:23:18.900 glass of water
00:23:19.620 and that that's
00:23:20.300 all i basically
00:23:20.900 would take a
00:23:21.420 little sip just
00:23:22.260 to just to
00:23:23.460 moisten my
00:23:23.980 throat and and
00:23:25.800 i gotta say
00:23:26.660 look i've never
00:23:27.700 gone 21 hours
00:23:28.540 without going to
00:23:29.580 the bathroom
00:23:29.960 and and uh
00:23:31.160 you know i
00:23:32.060 discovered a
00:23:32.600 very simple
00:23:33.060 principle which
00:23:33.720 is nothing in
00:23:34.260 nothing out
00:23:34.800 and so it
00:23:35.360 was it was
00:23:36.140 fine but
00:23:36.820 that was
00:23:37.240 excellent advice
00:23:38.240 all right so
00:23:38.980 final question
00:23:39.780 on this and
00:23:40.600 and this is i'm
00:23:41.880 sure something that
00:23:42.700 was going through
00:23:43.260 your mind cory
00:23:44.080 booker's mind
00:23:44.840 when did you
00:23:46.100 know you were
00:23:47.200 just going to
00:23:47.880 end it how
00:23:48.960 do you decide
00:23:49.760 are you looking
00:23:50.620 at a certain
00:23:51.340 time in your
00:23:52.100 mind where you're
00:23:52.740 like i gotta make
00:23:53.720 it to x and
00:23:54.560 then as soon as
00:23:55.220 it hits i'm
00:23:55.900 done what is
00:23:57.300 the process of
00:23:58.100 that as well
00:23:58.680 well actually i
00:24:00.640 i could have
00:24:01.460 gone longer
00:24:02.120 and and the
00:24:03.120 problem was
00:24:04.200 in in order to
00:24:05.280 do the
00:24:05.600 filibuster
00:24:06.180 um a pure
00:24:07.780 filibuster is
00:24:08.960 when the senate
00:24:09.820 floor is wide
00:24:10.660 open and and
00:24:11.660 you take control
00:24:12.600 of the filibuster
00:24:13.420 and and and it
00:24:14.320 is the prerogative
00:24:15.280 of every every
00:24:16.080 senator have
00:24:16.680 unlimited debate
00:24:17.480 and so if you
00:24:18.080 take control of
00:24:18.840 the floor you
00:24:20.020 can hold it for
00:24:20.700 as long as you
00:24:21.500 are able to
00:24:22.080 hold it uh
00:24:23.320 when i started
00:24:24.740 the filibuster
00:24:25.520 unfortunately harry
00:24:27.720 reid then the
00:24:28.440 majority leader
00:24:29.100 the democrats
00:24:29.680 were in charge
00:24:30.520 had locked in
00:24:32.480 a unanimous
00:24:33.320 consent resolution
00:24:34.600 that the next
00:24:36.260 day uh there
00:24:38.160 was a vote
00:24:39.040 scheduled um i
00:24:41.240 think at noon
00:24:41.880 and it was
00:24:42.360 locked in which
00:24:44.140 meant i had an
00:24:45.020 end point i had
00:24:45.920 an end point that
00:24:46.680 was a wall
00:24:47.420 because that
00:24:48.020 unanimous consent
00:24:48.860 had been locked
00:24:50.200 in and and so
00:24:51.360 it trumps
00:24:52.200 it it it
00:24:54.600 it is it's
00:24:55.760 effectively a
00:24:56.680 senate rule
00:24:57.340 and so when
00:24:58.440 i was north
00:24:59.300 of 21
00:24:59.840 hours um
00:25:01.020 i i had
00:25:01.760 plenty of
00:25:02.260 strength i could
00:25:03.100 have kept
00:25:03.380 going and and
00:25:04.200 i really wanted
00:25:05.020 to break strom
00:25:05.780 thurman's record
00:25:06.480 and and i
00:25:06.980 actually sent
00:25:07.680 one of my
00:25:08.780 staffers to
00:25:09.480 ask harry reid
00:25:10.600 um if he
00:25:12.400 would consent
00:25:13.140 i i could have
00:25:14.060 asked unanimous
00:25:14.880 consent uh
00:25:16.440 to be allowed
00:25:17.460 to complete my
00:25:18.120 speech and and
00:25:18.940 and if reid
00:25:19.500 had allowed it
00:25:20.060 i i would have
00:25:21.020 been able to
00:25:21.700 so i asked my
00:25:22.680 staffer i'm like
00:25:23.400 look do you
00:25:23.940 really want the
00:25:24.720 record for the
00:25:25.300 longest filibuster
00:25:26.320 to be to be
00:25:27.100 held by by a
00:25:28.240 segregationist who
00:25:29.400 was who was
00:25:30.540 filibustering against
00:25:31.500 the civil rights
00:25:32.340 laws like like
00:25:34.000 like you know i'd
00:25:35.620 really love to break
00:25:36.500 it and and harry reid
00:25:37.580 bearing being harry
00:25:38.480 reid he just said
00:25:39.380 no and and so i
00:25:41.820 was forced to end
00:25:42.780 when when i did
00:25:43.980 uh cory booker that
00:25:45.760 there was not a
00:25:46.400 unanimous consent in
00:25:47.340 place locking up the
00:25:48.380 time and so cory was
00:25:49.500 able to go long
00:25:50.300 enough as long as he
00:25:51.560 wanted and and and
00:25:52.780 then and he was able
00:25:53.680 to break the record
00:25:54.800 as before if you
00:25:56.100 want to hear the
00:25:56.580 rest of this
00:25:57.020 conversation on this
00:25:58.420 topic you can go
00:25:59.360 back and download the
00:26:00.360 podcast from early
00:26:01.440 this week to hear the
00:26:02.260 entire thing
00:26:03.120 canadian women are
00:26:04.920 looking for more
00:26:05.780 more out of
00:26:06.420 themselves their
00:26:07.220 businesses their
00:26:08.180 elected leaders and
00:26:09.260 the world are out
00:26:09.860 them and that's why
00:26:10.680 we're thrilled to
00:26:11.380 introduce the honest
00:26:12.560 talk podcast i'm
00:26:14.180 jennifer stewart and
00:26:15.260 i'm catherine clark and
00:26:16.540 in this podcast we
00:26:17.640 interview canada's
00:26:18.480 most inspiring women
00:26:19.760 entrepreneurs artists
00:26:21.220 athletes politicians and
00:26:22.920 newsmakers all at
00:26:24.080 different stages of
00:26:25.000 their journey so if
00:26:26.360 you're looking to
00:26:27.060 connect then we hope
00:26:28.100 you'll join us listen
00:26:29.220 to the honest talk
00:26:29.960 podcast on iheart radio
00:26:31.440 or wherever you listen
00:26:32.440 to your podcasts i want
00:26:35.500 to get back to the big
00:26:36.740 story number three of the
00:26:37.960 week you may have
00:26:38.580 missed all right so
00:26:39.920 then i gotta ask you
00:26:40.680 this question behind the
00:26:42.920 scenes what are the
00:26:45.260 conversations with your
00:26:47.760 colleagues are on a
00:26:49.300 scale of one to ten how
00:26:50.220 concerned are they over
00:26:52.280 the scenario that you
00:26:53.260 just described 42
00:26:54.800 okay um look there's
00:26:58.060 another point that i
00:26:58.960 think is important
00:26:59.580 to understand so so you
00:27:00.660 and i did a podcast i
00:27:01.680 think last week where we
00:27:02.600 talked about tariffs and
00:27:04.100 and and i talked about i
00:27:05.280 said listen the president
00:27:06.240 uses tariffs for two
00:27:09.000 principal purposes one
00:27:11.140 is leverage as an
00:27:12.100 incentive to incentivize
00:27:14.040 other countries to enact
00:27:16.540 policies that benefit
00:27:17.660 america and the
00:27:18.240 clearest example of that is
00:27:19.440 the threatened tariffs
00:27:20.220 against mexico and
00:27:21.080 canada unless and until
00:27:22.720 they help us secure the
00:27:23.620 border now using tariffs
00:27:25.400 as leverage for something
00:27:26.380 like that is very
00:27:27.800 effective the president
00:27:28.740 uses it really well and
00:27:30.800 particularly using them to
00:27:32.720 to push uh securing the
00:27:34.680 border i am emphatically in
00:27:37.320 favor of that is it has
00:27:39.340 proven successful it worked
00:27:40.920 incredibly well in the
00:27:42.500 first term it produced the
00:27:43.840 remain in mexico agreement
00:27:45.640 with mexico it produced the
00:27:47.080 lowest rate of illegal
00:27:47.920 immigration in 45 years
00:27:49.580 stopping the border
00:27:51.160 invasion of the last four
00:27:52.440 years is an acute national
00:27:53.980 security and public safety
00:27:55.440 uh imperative it is a
00:27:57.560 mandate from the last
00:27:58.560 election it is massively
00:27:59.840 important for texas so i'm
00:28:01.600 all for using the threat of
00:28:03.240 tariffs as leverage to get
00:28:04.600 good policy that benefits
00:28:05.820 america but there's a
00:28:07.180 second component and and
00:28:09.060 this is an important thing
00:28:10.000 to understand which is
00:28:10.940 donald trump and much of
00:28:11.920 his administration believes
00:28:13.920 in tariffs as an economic
00:28:15.460 policy we've all heard
00:28:17.080 donald trump say tariff is
00:28:19.180 the most beautiful word in
00:28:20.560 the english language and i
00:28:23.340 do think the business
00:28:24.520 community so look look we
00:28:26.540 we had the stock market
00:28:29.700 plummeted we saw massive
00:28:31.500 losses in the stock market
00:28:32.820 we may well see more massive
00:28:34.160 losses than the stock market
00:28:35.400 i think the business
00:28:37.040 community was shocked by the
00:28:39.700 magnitude of these community
00:28:40.860 of these tariffs by the
00:28:42.900 breadth of them look as
00:28:44.620 as we talked about in our
00:28:46.000 earlier podcast on tariffs
00:28:47.520 what i've urged the
00:28:49.400 president is two things
00:28:50.520 number one focus on china
00:28:51.820 because delinking our
00:28:53.580 economy from china is
00:28:55.280 emphatically in america's
00:28:56.500 national security interest
00:28:57.480 and economic security
00:28:58.300 interest and number two
00:28:59.500 focus on reciprocity and
00:29:01.580 the reason i've said focus
00:29:03.000 on reciprocity is the
00:29:04.220 upside scenario i just
00:29:05.480 talked about which is by
00:29:07.020 focusing on reciprocity if
00:29:08.460 you incentivize other
00:29:09.280 countries to lower their
00:29:10.200 tariffs and we lower ours
00:29:11.800 that's a win-win for
00:29:13.260 america but the thing to
00:29:15.080 understand i believe the
00:29:16.480 business community has
00:29:17.600 systematically underestimated
00:29:20.260 how much president trump
00:29:22.380 and the trump
00:29:22.800 administration views tariffs
00:29:24.500 as an ongoing permanent
00:29:26.640 feature of our economic
00:29:27.900 policy i can tell you
00:29:29.720 virtually every time i talk
00:29:30.860 with the president i talk
00:29:31.740 with the president frequently
00:29:32.780 he goes on at length have
00:29:34.800 you seen the billions of
00:29:36.800 dollars the hundreds of
00:29:38.400 billions of dollars the
00:29:39.320 trillions of dollars we
00:29:40.900 are raising and are going
00:29:42.020 to raise from tariffs now
00:29:43.840 i think a lot of people
00:29:45.400 said oh he's going to
00:29:46.060 threaten these tariffs but
00:29:46.960 he's going to lift them
00:29:47.640 very quickly if he does
00:29:49.260 that great if he leaves
00:29:50.940 them in place and we just
00:29:52.100 have constant tariffs that
00:29:53.920 is a massive tax increase on
00:29:55.520 the american people and and
00:29:57.300 i think many people are
00:29:58.840 underestimating that that
00:30:00.980 the president believes and
00:30:03.180 many members of his
00:30:05.000 administration believe that
00:30:06.980 tariffs are just a fabulous
00:30:08.800 feature of the american
00:30:09.820 economy they they harken back
00:30:11.780 to to william mckinley when
00:30:13.240 he was president now now
00:30:14.740 look we used to have before
00:30:16.280 the income tax tariffs were
00:30:17.580 the main source of revenue for
00:30:18.760 the federal government and
00:30:19.960 they want to go back to that
00:30:21.360 scenario and i gotta say
00:30:23.720 we're gonna find out because
00:30:25.100 listen president trump believes
00:30:26.500 in this i think in the first
00:30:28.580 term he wanted to to uh impose
00:30:33.320 policies like this and i think
00:30:34.880 many republican senators talked
00:30:37.860 him out of it pressed him back
00:30:39.140 and said look they're real risk
00:30:40.320 don't do this i think in the
00:30:42.300 second term trump feels
00:30:43.500 unchained he feels unburdened
00:30:45.240 he's like screw it let's go and
00:30:47.240 and he believes that i i do not
00:30:49.040 by the way that's where the
00:30:50.240 threat could actually work right
00:30:51.560 because every other country's
00:30:53.040 looking at this saying hey like
00:30:55.220 this is surely he's not going to
00:30:56.120 do it he does it like well he's
00:30:57.540 going to flinch quickly uh
00:30:59.260 there's no indication he's
00:31:00.600 going to flinch per se quickly
00:31:02.140 right i think the real threat of
00:31:04.180 it is the fact that he's
00:31:05.540 actually willing to go through
00:31:06.940 with it look i want this to
00:31:08.960 succeed i want it to succeed but
00:31:10.800 my definition of succeed may be
00:31:13.480 different than the white houses
00:31:14.600 my definition of succeed is
00:31:17.500 dramatically lower tariffs abroad
00:31:19.120 and result in dramatically
00:31:20.440 lowering tariffs here that's
00:31:22.660 success for the american
00:31:24.200 workers american businesses
00:31:25.440 american growth american
00:31:26.600 prosperity that's a great
00:31:28.320 outcome uh but
00:31:30.440 look i think we're going to find
00:31:33.520 out a hundred years ago the u.s
00:31:36.320 economy didn't have the leverage
00:31:38.140 to to to have the kind of impact
00:31:41.180 we do now but
00:31:42.760 i worry there are voices within the
00:31:45.760 administration
00:31:46.260 that want to see these tariffs
00:31:48.980 continue forever and ever and ever
00:31:51.300 they don't want to lower them they
00:31:53.040 they think they're great and and and
00:31:55.300 what is particularly i think has has
00:31:58.020 startled some observers it wasn't
00:31:59.640 just directed at china it wasn't just
00:32:01.440 directed at bad actors it was directed
00:32:03.760 against everybody that that is the
00:32:07.200 breadth of it is is enormous and and
00:32:10.360 and it carries it carries upside but
00:32:12.500 it also carries real risk all right
00:32:14.300 let's talk timeline in your
00:32:16.240 definition of short term or long term
00:32:18.820 what does that timeline look like
00:32:20.820 because obviously people are trying
00:32:22.900 to figure out
00:32:23.520 weathering the storm right you talked
00:32:25.240 about supply chain and the car is a
00:32:27.020 great example
00:32:27.660 you don't feel the pain till let's say
00:32:30.120 june
00:32:30.660 all right so it gives us a few months
00:32:32.660 for things to kind of work its way
00:32:34.260 through work it out
00:32:35.320 is that a timeline of short term and
00:32:37.700 then after that it's it's it's
00:32:39.340 considered all right this is long
00:32:40.760 term what is that timeline in your
00:32:42.320 opinion
00:32:42.620 well let's be clear the timeline was
00:32:44.820 immediate so so let me read from
00:32:46.780 from the wall street journal uh
00:32:49.360 headline trump tariffs send down to
00:32:51.400 a 1600 point decline dollar slumps
00:32:53.660 asian stocks hit for a second day
00:32:55.900 fears of recession rise and here's
00:32:57.420 what the wall street journal reports
00:32:58.700 quote
00:32:59.040 u.s markets suffer their steepest
00:33:01.160 decline since 2020 on fears
00:33:02.960 president trump's new tariffs plan
00:33:04.480 will trigger a global trade war and
00:33:06.840 drag the u.s economy into recession
00:33:08.580 major stock indexes dropped as much
00:33:11.280 as six percent on thursday stocks
00:33:13.020 lost roughly 3.1 trillion dollars
00:33:15.540 in market value their largest one
00:33:18.360 day decline since march 2020 stock
00:33:20.700 index futures drifted lower thursday
00:33:22.580 evening and stocks in japan were hit
00:33:24.680 for a second day as friday training
00:33:26.060 began in in thursday's market plunge
00:33:28.460 the dow industrials dropped 16 179 points
00:33:32.620 or four percent the tech heavy nags
00:33:34.300 deck which powered the market higher
00:33:36.080 for years was down six percent pulled
00:33:38.140 lower by big declines in nvidia apple
00:33:41.020 and amazon.com the s&p 500 which fell
00:33:43.600 four point eight percent and the other
00:33:45.280 benchmarks suffered their sharpest
00:33:46.880 decline since the early days of the
00:33:49.020 covet 19 pandemic the dollar meanwhile
00:33:51.620 tumbled with the wall street journal
00:33:53.120 dollar index suffering its sharpest
00:33:54.940 decline since 2023 now those are
00:33:57.960 immediate hits and understand look it's
00:34:00.180 easy to say okay fine you know that's
00:34:02.080 just rich people look at this point a
00:34:04.400 majority of americans have money
00:34:06.200 invested in 401ks and iras and so that's
00:34:08.940 impacting everyone and and people don't
00:34:11.780 necessarily follow their 401k on a daily
00:34:14.240 basis many people see their 401k statement
00:34:17.140 when it comes out at the end of the
00:34:18.380 quarter a whole lot of people are looking
00:34:20.480 at that and and we'll see if that's a
00:34:22.340 temporary one-day hit but if it continues
00:34:24.900 the slide over the next few days that's
00:34:27.440 not waiting for six months to see the
00:34:29.720 impact that's freaking people out now and
00:34:32.840 and and so the the consequences of this
00:34:35.780 are real and i want to be clear about
00:34:38.120 something look it used to be
00:34:40.640 conventional wisdom in republican
00:34:43.140 politics that free trade is wonderful
00:34:45.160 and we should just have no tariffs and
00:34:47.100 lower tariffs and and that was almost
00:34:49.000 everyone ask you a this is a question
00:34:51.840 i'm just going to ask it because i know
00:34:53.440 there's people listening they want to
00:34:55.560 know what the definition your definition
00:34:58.340 of free trade is that used to be
00:35:01.340 conventional wisdom and i want to give
00:35:03.740 donald trump credit for something really
00:35:05.720 significant which is he's changed the
00:35:07.920 debate on trade fundamentally and and so i
00:35:11.440 believe in free trade but i also believe
00:35:13.620 in fair trade and so when i talk about
00:35:16.420 reciprocity donald trump has made a very
00:35:19.380 clear point it's a powerful point which is
00:35:21.720 many countries on earth have been taking
00:35:23.460 advantage of the united states and have
00:35:25.140 been imposing really high tariffs and
00:35:27.800 barriers to u.s goods while having free
00:35:30.820 access to the american markets and that is
00:35:32.780 unfair and and so i love that president
00:35:36.380 trump is willing to use leverage to lower
00:35:38.820 tariffs i think that's great and that
00:35:40.920 really is a change in the debate 10 years
00:35:43.100 ago there was nobody in the republican
00:35:45.440 party making that argument and and that is
00:35:48.120 the direct result of president trump's
00:35:50.920 leadership that's a good thing saying we
00:35:53.800 should be treated fairly that is a good
00:35:56.100 thing that is a very different proposition
00:35:58.580 from saying doesn't matter if other countries
00:36:01.800 lower their tariffs we're going to impose
00:36:04.140 tariffs on everybody because we think tariffs
00:36:06.320 should be the principal vehicle of funding the
00:36:08.860 economy if the outcome of this is a multi-trillion
00:36:13.020 dollar tax increase on american consumers
00:36:15.240 i think that that is really consequential and
00:36:19.420 and really really harmful so let me ask you one other
00:36:22.580 question and that is if these tariffs don't change
00:36:25.940 then what would the impact be well let me share an
00:36:31.380 analysis that that a group called the tax
00:36:33.440 foundation did now the tax foundation is is a
00:36:36.520 think tank based in washington they're very good
00:36:39.060 they're they're economic experts they analyze
00:36:41.300 tax policies they they have proven to be incredibly
00:36:44.740 accurate in terms of measuring the impact of taxes
00:36:47.500 here's what the tax foundation has assessed from the announcement this
00:36:51.540 week they say if if these stay in effect the average tariff rate on all imports
00:36:57.220 will rise from 2.5 percent in 2024 to 18.8 percent the highest average rate
00:37:05.420 since 1933 under the tariffs announced for 2025
00:37:09.020 the consequence of those tariffs they will cause imports to fall
00:37:13.600 by slightly more than 900 billion dollars in 2025 or 28 percent so that's what
00:37:21.160 they're predicting is that imports drop 900 billion dollars 28 percent
00:37:25.400 this year they also say the newly announced tariffs on april 2nd
00:37:29.960 will raise 1.8 trillion dollars in revenue over the next decade
00:37:35.740 and will shrink us gdp by 0.5 percent
00:37:41.320 the april 2nd escalation they note comes in addition to the previously
00:37:46.060 announced tariffs which will raise another 1.3 trillion
00:37:50.460 dollars in revenue over the next decade and shrink us gdp
00:37:54.860 by 0.3 percent altogether trump's tariffs will raise
00:37:59.980 nearly 3.2 trillion dollars in revenue over the next decade
00:38:04.380 and reduce us gdp by 0.8 percent they further project the tariffs will
00:38:11.060 reduce after tax income by an average of 2.1 percent
00:38:16.020 and amount to an average tax increase of more than two thousand one hundred
00:38:21.220 dollars per u.s household in 2025 now to be clear
00:38:27.300 that's a prediction if these tariffs stay in place if they don't change
00:38:32.220 if the upside that i described happens if foreign countries slash their tariffs
00:38:38.080 and trump in turn slash these tariffs none of those numbers hold instead i think we
00:38:44.060 see an enormous economic boom but if that doesn't happen if these
00:38:49.160 tariffs stay in place as an ongoing economic policy
00:38:52.340 we're facing very real and i think very detrimental consequences
00:38:56.980 as always thank you for listening to verdict with senator ted cruz ben ferguson with you don't
00:39:02.780 forget to download my podcast and you can listen to my podcast every other day you're not
00:39:06.500 listening to verdict or each day when you listen to verdict afterwards i'd love to have you as a
00:39:10.840 listener to again the ben ferguson podcast and we will see you back here on monday morning
00:39:15.820 this is an iheart podcast guaranteed human