Verdict with Ted Cruz - June 20, 2025


Cruz vs Tucker Debateļ¼š On Israel & Iran- Trump is Right, Tucker is Wrong


Episode Stats

Misogynist Sentences

5

Hate Speech Sentences

60


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.700 Guaranteed human.
00:00:05.580 Welcome.
00:00:06.200 It is Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you.
00:00:09.080 It's so nice to have you with us.
00:00:10.420 Many of you listening to this on radio around the country,
00:00:13.100 and we are thrilled to have you with us as well.
00:00:15.840 Don't forget, we do this show as a podcast,
00:00:17.780 so make sure you hit that subscribe or auto-download button.
00:00:21.180 If you download Verdict with Ted Cruz, we do it three days a week,
00:00:24.540 and obviously this radio show as well.
00:00:27.640 Senator, we've got a lot to talk about on the show,
00:00:30.240 but let's just start with the big thing everybody's wanting to hear about,
00:00:33.740 and that is your sit-down interview in your office with Tucker Carlson.
00:00:38.500 Well, this week I sat down with Tucker Carlson.
00:00:41.140 We did a two-hour interview in my office,
00:00:44.120 and I've got to tell you it was a bloodbath.
00:00:46.040 The two of us, frankly, beat the living daylights out of each other for two hours straight.
00:00:52.900 It was, there were fireworks, I'll tell you online,
00:00:55.720 there have been over 100 million views on clips from this show.
00:01:00.580 It was vigorous.
00:01:02.820 It was contested.
00:01:04.040 It was, look, it laid out two very different views on foreign policy,
00:01:09.520 and it's what we're going to talk about today.
00:01:12.160 Yeah, it really is incredible on the foreign policy front.
00:01:15.720 So let's just start with the basic question that I think so many people have been asking me
00:01:19.880 when they saw the snippets of this interview,
00:01:22.200 and I would actually encourage people to watch the entire interview,
00:01:25.160 not just the little things that popped on social media.
00:01:28.760 But number one, like, why did you decide to do this interview with him,
00:01:33.140 and did you think it was going to be like this?
00:01:36.820 Well, let me start with the second part first.
00:01:38.680 Yes, I knew exactly what it was going to be.
00:01:41.760 I knew that Tucker, when he asked for the interview,
00:01:44.180 I knew that he was doing it to come after me.
00:01:46.740 I knew he was going to come in and just be swinging as hard as he could.
00:01:50.780 And I went in.
00:01:51.820 I wasn't looking to pick a fight.
00:01:53.920 And, in fact, we started the interview with my pointing out.
00:01:57.540 I said, Tucker, listen, you and I, we agree on about 80% of issues.
00:02:02.200 We agree across the board.
00:02:03.380 And I said, Tucker, you have been fantastic on a ton of issues.
00:02:07.940 You've been fantastic on securing the border.
00:02:10.120 That is a deep passion of mine.
00:02:11.860 We've got to secure the border.
00:02:13.680 And when Joe Biden and the Democrats had opened borders,
00:02:16.100 you were ferocious in fighting for that,
00:02:18.340 which I have been fighting alongside that with all my might.
00:02:22.560 I will say during COVID, during the COVID lockdowns,
00:02:26.540 Tucker was phenomenal.
00:02:28.260 In fact, in the middle of the COVID lockdowns,
00:02:30.660 I called Tucker back when he had a show on Fox,
00:02:32.960 and I told him, I said, Tucker, your evening monologues
00:02:36.140 are the single best thing on television.
00:02:38.720 I listened to them.
00:02:40.420 I consumed them like crack every night because they are so good
00:02:43.820 because he was speaking out.
00:02:44.860 He was speaking out powerfully against the insanity
00:02:47.020 of shutting down our country,
00:02:49.020 against the insanity of shutting down small businesses,
00:02:51.420 against the insanity of shutting down churches,
00:02:53.620 against the insanity of shutting down schools.
00:02:55.800 And over 10 million kids did not go to in-person school
00:02:59.380 for over a year.
00:03:00.340 And by the way, the data all show the learning loss to kids
00:03:04.560 from that idiotic social experiment
00:03:06.800 is going to be with them their entire life.
00:03:08.980 I think 10, 20, 30, 40 years from now,
00:03:11.260 we're going to look back and say,
00:03:13.020 what idiocy prompted this country to shut down schools
00:03:17.020 and hurt so many kids?
00:03:18.280 So on all of those issues, on free speech,
00:03:20.740 on the Second Amendment, Tucker's been fantastic,
00:03:23.660 and we are on exactly the same page on all of those issues.
00:03:27.180 Now, I did acknowledge there are issues on which we disagree.
00:03:31.680 I knew that Tucker wanted the interview
00:03:34.480 because he wanted to come after me.
00:03:36.460 And I knew that it was going to be particularly spicy,
00:03:39.820 a lot of fireworks,
00:03:41.240 because Tucker in the last week
00:03:43.360 has gotten really crosswise with President Trump.
00:03:46.820 Tucker has blasted the president
00:03:48.840 and said that the president was complicit in Israel's war.
00:03:52.660 He said that the president's actions were not consistent
00:03:55.420 with America First.
00:03:57.180 And so I knew that Tucker was going to be hot
00:04:00.580 and that I was going to be the target to take his ire out.
00:04:03.740 But I did the interview because, listen,
00:04:07.240 although Tucker is right on a whole lot of issues,
00:04:09.760 on foreign policy, I think he's gone really off the rails.
00:04:13.540 He has gotten to a place of hardcore isolationism
00:04:18.000 that I think is really dangerous.
00:04:19.760 It's not good for America.
00:04:20.940 I disagree with it.
00:04:22.720 He does not want America to support Israel.
00:04:25.680 He does not want America to do anything
00:04:27.380 to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon.
00:04:30.300 And he is vocally and vigorously disagreeing
00:04:33.240 with President Trump.
00:04:34.060 And I thought it was important for me to do this interview
00:04:37.140 to explain what President Trump is doing
00:04:39.760 and to defend the president,
00:04:41.020 to stand with President Trump.
00:04:43.140 And I got to tell you,
00:04:43.940 the entire theme of my interview was very simple.
00:04:47.640 Donald Trump is right and Tucker on Iran and Israel,
00:04:52.300 you're wrong.
00:04:53.260 And that was the whole point of the interview.
00:04:55.380 That came across at great length.
00:04:57.800 Now, we did the interview on Tuesday
00:05:02.420 and then Tucker released it on Wednesday.
00:05:04.960 But before Wednesday, he released a little snippet.
00:05:07.060 And in two hours, look,
00:05:08.980 I'm going to give Tucker some credit.
00:05:10.180 He had a little gotcha moment.
00:05:11.340 So two hours of back and forth
00:05:12.520 and back and forth and back and forth.
00:05:14.080 And he decided to play a little gotcha moment.
00:05:16.700 So in the course of talking about Iran,
00:05:18.840 he asks me, he says,
00:05:20.860 well, what's the population of Iran?
00:05:23.240 And I thought about it for a second
00:05:25.160 and realized I didn't actually know
00:05:26.940 the exact population of Iran.
00:05:29.020 And so I just said, I don't know.
00:05:31.080 And he did the sort of classic Tucker,
00:05:33.360 what?
00:05:34.480 How can you not know that?
00:05:36.360 And I mean, he was, you know,
00:05:38.120 vibrating and looking as if I had,
00:05:41.360 you know, admitted to,
00:05:43.460 I don't know, committing treason or something.
00:05:46.220 And I just said, look,
00:05:47.280 I don't memorize population tables.
00:05:48.980 And he comes in with great joy and says,
00:05:55.260 and I asked him, I said,
00:05:56.140 what's the population of Iran?
00:05:57.120 He says, 92 million.
00:05:58.260 Actually, according to the Google searches afterwards,
00:06:01.060 it's 89 million.
00:06:01.980 So he was off 3 million,
00:06:02.940 which I think is funny
00:06:03.600 because I assume he Google searched it
00:06:05.100 right before the interview
00:06:05.960 so he could do his little gotcha.
00:06:08.520 And I'll confess this,
00:06:10.200 this may not be terribly credible,
00:06:11.480 but the truth of the matter is,
00:06:13.180 in my head,
00:06:14.780 what I was going to say
00:06:16.080 if I was guessing was 90 million.
00:06:17.920 So I was actually felt pretty good.
00:06:19.140 I'm like, huh, all right, pretty damn close.
00:06:21.300 But I said, look,
00:06:22.200 what difference does it make
00:06:23.360 if it's 90 million or 80 million or 100 million?
00:06:25.960 And the reason I didn't want to posit a guess
00:06:27.900 is because stupid and unfair interviews,
00:06:32.920 you play gotchas on this.
00:06:34.620 And I'll say things like population numbers,
00:06:36.500 there are all sorts of countries across the globe
00:06:38.320 that have sort of really surprising populations,
00:06:41.560 that they can have populations
00:06:42.860 that are either significantly bigger
00:06:44.860 than you would think
00:06:45.500 or significantly smaller than you would think.
00:06:47.440 And at the end of the day,
00:06:48.660 what I was talking about,
00:06:49.900 which is the Ayatollah,
00:06:51.800 a theocratic radical lunatic
00:06:53.200 who chants death to America
00:06:55.040 and is trying to develop a nuclear weapon,
00:06:57.600 the threat of that
00:06:58.720 is not remotely different
00:07:01.020 whether Iran has a population
00:07:03.180 of 80 million, 90 million, or 100 million.
00:07:05.580 So it was an irrelevant gotcha.
00:07:08.240 But that little clip,
00:07:09.720 what Tucker did is he released it
00:07:11.060 a day before the whole interview.
00:07:12.340 So he picked,
00:07:13.400 out of two hours,
00:07:14.120 he thought that was the best 60 seconds
00:07:15.660 because he did get me to say the words,
00:07:17.580 I don't know,
00:07:18.360 and he felt very gleeful on that.
00:07:19.840 I got to say the rest of the interview
00:07:22.260 as it played out,
00:07:23.640 there's a reason he wanted to start
00:07:24.920 with that clip
00:07:25.500 and that clip went viral
00:07:26.580 and that's fine.
00:07:28.760 But there's a reason he wanted
00:07:30.460 to start with that clip
00:07:31.460 because the rest of the interview,
00:07:33.920 Tucker's positions on Israel
00:07:35.280 were very clear.
00:07:36.100 He didn't want to stand with Israel.
00:07:37.520 He was,
00:07:39.420 and we're going to lay this out
00:07:40.780 in the course of the show,
00:07:41.900 deeply opposed to Israel.
00:07:43.480 And he was deeply opposed
00:07:45.440 to President Trump's policy.
00:07:46.920 And in fact,
00:07:47.460 he had been in writing
00:07:48.400 and vocally attacking President Trump.
00:07:51.180 And he didn't want to talk about that
00:07:53.380 in terms of putting it out,
00:07:54.400 the results of the interview.
00:07:55.460 But that's why I did the interview.
00:07:57.120 So I've done interviews
00:07:58.440 that have been pretty snarky.
00:08:00.020 I worked at CNN for a long time
00:08:01.980 as a conservative commentator.
00:08:03.660 Are you glad you did the interview?
00:08:05.200 Because I always got that question.
00:08:06.620 It's the same one I know
00:08:07.480 a lot of people want to ask you.
00:08:09.980 Absolutely.
00:08:10.600 A thousand percent yes.
00:08:12.420 Look,
00:08:13.040 could the interview
00:08:14.140 have been much better
00:08:15.280 if Tucker had wanted
00:08:16.860 to sit down
00:08:17.620 and have a reasonable,
00:08:19.740 thoughtful conversation,
00:08:21.100 let me speak,
00:08:22.320 let him speak,
00:08:23.140 us go back and forth,
00:08:24.700 and lay out
00:08:25.700 different visions
00:08:26.420 of foreign policy.
00:08:27.240 That would have been
00:08:27.780 a much, much better interview.
00:08:29.280 But Tucker didn't want to do that.
00:08:30.840 When he doesn't like
00:08:31.460 what you're saying,
00:08:32.100 he interrupts,
00:08:32.720 he gets snarky,
00:08:33.520 he insults you,
00:08:34.340 and you're going to hear all that
00:08:35.280 because that's what he did.
00:08:37.020 But that's fine.
00:08:38.900 I mean,
00:08:39.320 he decided he wanted
00:08:41.360 this interview
00:08:41.860 to be the two of us
00:08:42.600 screaming at each other,
00:08:43.300 so that's what it ended up being.
00:08:44.920 But I'm very glad
00:08:45.960 because it was important
00:08:47.120 to lay out the contrast.
00:08:49.400 Donald Trump is right
00:08:50.740 and Tucker Carlson is wrong
00:08:52.720 on Israel and Iran,
00:08:54.660 and I wanted to make
00:08:55.560 that absolutely clear.
00:08:56.860 One of the big differences
00:08:58.420 between the two of you
00:08:59.900 was on what success looks like,
00:09:02.560 especially when it comes to Israel
00:09:04.680 taking out top
00:09:05.820 Iranian military leadership.
00:09:07.420 Well, that's exactly right.
00:09:08.680 Israel right now
00:09:09.500 is taking out
00:09:10.320 the senior Iranian
00:09:11.360 military leadership,
00:09:12.780 and this is a regime
00:09:15.140 when the Ayatollah
00:09:16.140 chants death to America,
00:09:18.060 I believe him.
00:09:18.760 When he chants death to Israel,
00:09:20.520 I believe him.
00:09:21.240 When he calls Israel
00:09:22.380 the little Satan
00:09:23.360 and America the great Satan,
00:09:25.120 I believe that he believes that.
00:09:27.700 And so the Ayatollah's efforts
00:09:29.500 to develop nuclear weapons,
00:09:30.900 they are designed
00:09:31.560 for one very specific purpose,
00:09:33.620 which is to be able
00:09:35.000 to attack Israel and America.
00:09:37.680 And let me point out,
00:09:38.660 by the way,
00:09:39.420 there is a reason
00:09:40.360 the Ayatollah
00:09:41.080 has an ICBM program.
00:09:42.600 ICBM stands for
00:09:43.800 Intercontinental Ballistic Missile.
00:09:45.440 You do not need
00:09:46.580 an ICBM to attack Israel.
00:09:49.680 Right now,
00:09:50.500 Iran is pounding Israel
00:09:53.240 with ballistic missiles,
00:09:54.880 but Israel is relatively close
00:09:56.380 to Iran.
00:09:57.740 Iran wants an ICBM
00:09:59.440 for one purpose
00:10:00.380 and one purpose only,
00:10:01.660 to be able to carry
00:10:02.740 a nuclear warhead
00:10:03.860 to the United States of America.
00:10:05.600 And so that is the threat
00:10:07.040 we are facing,
00:10:07.760 and Israel is doing
00:10:09.380 an enormous favor
00:10:10.660 to America
00:10:11.780 by taking out
00:10:13.160 Iran's nuclear capability.
00:10:14.780 Here, give a listen
00:10:15.940 to Tucker and me
00:10:17.080 discussing exactly this point.
00:10:18.600 You want to ask,
00:10:19.500 how does supporting Israel
00:10:20.580 benefit us?
00:10:21.560 Right now,
00:10:22.220 this tiny little country,
00:10:23.640 the size of the state
00:10:24.640 of New Jersey,
00:10:25.240 is fighting our enemies
00:10:26.820 for us
00:10:27.540 and taking out
00:10:29.060 their top military leadership
00:10:30.420 and trying to take out
00:10:31.740 their nuclear capacity.
00:10:32.580 That makes America
00:10:33.960 much safer.
00:10:35.020 By the way,
00:10:35.540 you're absolutely right.
00:10:36.440 I mean,
00:10:36.760 Israel is taking out
00:10:38.100 top Iranian military leadership,
00:10:40.220 and yes,
00:10:41.220 Israel is fighting
00:10:42.080 our enemies right now
00:10:43.440 for us,
00:10:43.960 and not just America,
00:10:44.800 but many other countries
00:10:45.660 around the world.
00:10:46.840 Well,
00:10:47.300 and it benefits America.
00:10:49.300 Understand,
00:10:50.180 these nuclear weapons
00:10:51.540 are being developed
00:10:52.660 so they can attack America,
00:10:54.520 and it's not American soldiers
00:10:56.480 who are taking out
00:10:57.340 these nuclear facilities.
00:10:58.900 It is Israeli commandos
00:11:00.900 who are doing so.
00:11:01.680 that's something
00:11:02.740 we should be grateful for,
00:11:04.620 but Tucker Carlson
00:11:06.360 has been vigorously
00:11:07.880 criticizing President Trump
00:11:09.500 for standing with Israel
00:11:10.480 on this,
00:11:11.340 and here's another segment
00:11:12.580 with Tucker and me
00:11:13.700 discussing this point.
00:11:15.880 I'm totally opposed to that.
00:11:19.260 It's awful.
00:11:21.100 I am against killing
00:11:22.380 anybody, actually,
00:11:23.520 and especially foreign government.
00:11:25.740 I'm asking about
00:11:26.920 your allegation
00:11:27.760 and the Prime Minister
00:11:28.420 of Israel's allegation
00:11:29.500 that is around
00:11:31.660 trying to murder
00:11:32.840 the President.
00:11:33.780 Killing terrorists
00:11:34.380 is a good thing.
00:11:35.540 Killing people
00:11:36.000 who are trying
00:11:36.340 to murder Americans
00:11:37.060 is a good thing,
00:11:37.980 because if you're
00:11:38.740 America first,
00:11:40.360 you want to protect America,
00:11:42.440 and so taking out,
00:11:43.400 killing Osama bin Laden
00:11:44.400 was a fantastic day
00:11:45.720 for the world.
00:11:45.740 But you don't really believe
00:11:46.680 that they're trying
00:11:47.180 to murder Trump?
00:11:47.980 Yes, I do.
00:11:48.820 Yes, I do.
00:11:49.220 Then why aren't you...
00:11:49.860 Senator,
00:11:50.820 you said earlier
00:11:51.700 in the interview
00:11:52.800 with him at the beginning
00:11:53.480 and on this show
00:11:54.320 that you and Tucker
00:11:55.320 agree on about 80%
00:11:57.340 and the issues
00:11:57.840 like hardcore lockstep,
00:12:00.020 but this one here
00:12:01.940 is maybe the most insane point
00:12:04.040 where Tucker's like,
00:12:05.020 hey, I don't want to kill
00:12:05.980 anybody around the world
00:12:06.680 no matter what.
00:12:07.240 I'm like, hold on,
00:12:07.860 if you had a chance
00:12:08.440 to take out Hitler,
00:12:09.200 you wouldn't have done it?
00:12:09.940 Are you kidding me?
00:12:11.140 Well, this is unfortunately
00:12:12.880 a point that, frankly,
00:12:14.400 you see from a lot of people
00:12:15.420 on the far left.
00:12:16.240 You see from the sort of
00:12:17.580 Jimmy Carters of the world
00:12:19.400 and even Barack Obamas,
00:12:20.980 the kind of peaceniks
00:12:22.120 that say,
00:12:23.180 man, all war is bad.
00:12:24.660 Just, you know,
00:12:25.640 killing is bad.
00:12:26.560 I'm just opposed to killing.
00:12:28.720 And I get that
00:12:30.740 that sounds good
00:12:31.640 in a college faculty lounge,
00:12:33.600 but as I asked him
00:12:35.020 in the course of it,
00:12:35.740 I'm like,
00:12:37.020 do you think it's bad
00:12:38.560 that we killed
00:12:39.060 Osama bin Laden?
00:12:40.740 Do you think it's bad
00:12:41.900 that Hitler's dead?
00:12:44.240 Do you think it's bad
00:12:45.240 that we killed
00:12:45.740 General Soleimani?
00:12:46.700 Do you think it's bad
00:12:47.520 that, and let's be clear,
00:12:48.860 that President Trump
00:12:49.740 killed General Soleimani?
00:12:50.900 I asked him that.
00:12:51.680 He wouldn't answer that.
00:12:52.460 He wouldn't answer
00:12:53.440 if it was good or bad
00:12:55.580 that we killed
00:12:56.060 Osama bin Laden.
00:12:57.260 The idea that we should
00:12:58.660 never kill anybody
00:12:59.680 is an incredibly naive
00:13:01.760 and unrealistic position.
00:13:03.480 Look, I think we should
00:13:05.160 avoid unnecessary wars.
00:13:06.640 I think we should be
00:13:07.280 very reluctant
00:13:08.040 to put American servicemen
00:13:09.540 and women in harm's way.
00:13:11.300 But when you have terrorists,
00:13:13.260 killing Osama bin Laden
00:13:14.460 was a great day for America
00:13:16.060 and a great day for the world
00:13:17.440 because Osama bin Laden
00:13:18.960 murdered thousands of Americans
00:13:20.640 and waged war against America.
00:13:22.320 And anyone who is actually
00:13:24.680 focused on America first
00:13:26.240 and defending this nation
00:13:27.600 understands that there
00:13:30.140 are dangerous people
00:13:31.160 that are trying to kill Americans
00:13:32.640 and it's the job
00:13:33.820 of the commander-in-chief
00:13:34.640 to keep them safe.
00:13:35.600 Now, I will say
00:13:37.380 in a two-hour interview,
00:13:41.280 one of the things
00:13:42.040 that was striking
00:13:42.700 is 36 minutes
00:13:45.220 of the interview
00:13:46.640 was Tucker attacking me
00:13:49.600 for supporting Israel.
00:13:51.960 And in particular,
00:13:53.780 he was obsessed with AIPAC.
00:13:55.680 AIPAC is the America-Israel
00:13:58.880 Political Action Committee.
00:14:00.420 And he was going on
00:14:02.120 and on and on
00:14:02.780 about how AIPAC
00:14:04.060 should have to register
00:14:05.460 under FARO
00:14:07.200 the law that requires
00:14:08.840 that organizations
00:14:09.960 that are lobbying
00:14:10.780 on behalf of foreign governments
00:14:11.880 have to register.
00:14:13.280 Now, AIPAC is not lobbying
00:14:14.640 on behalf of a foreign government.
00:14:16.160 AIPAC consists of Americans.
00:14:18.240 It is Americans
00:14:19.200 who are standing up.
00:14:20.380 Now, there are Americans
00:14:21.000 who want a strong
00:14:22.160 U.S.-Israel relationship,
00:14:23.860 but they are not a lobbyist
00:14:25.700 for the nation of Israel.
00:14:27.280 And all told,
00:14:29.640 he asked 28 questions on AIPAC.
00:14:32.720 28 questions.
00:14:34.200 He asked 35 questions
00:14:35.880 on why I was supporting Israel.
00:14:37.460 And finally,
00:14:38.640 it led to this moment,
00:14:40.300 which was quite a bit of fireworks.
00:14:42.040 Here, give a listen.
00:14:43.760 By the way, Tucker,
00:14:45.460 it's a very weird thing.
00:14:47.980 The obsession with Israel.
00:14:49.920 When we're talking
00:14:50.300 about foreign countries,
00:14:51.040 it's hardly an obsession.
00:14:51.700 You're not talking
00:14:52.300 about Chinese.
00:14:53.000 You're not talking
00:14:53.440 about Japanese.
00:14:54.120 You're not talking
00:14:54.580 about the British.
00:14:55.120 You're not talking
00:14:55.520 about the French.
00:14:56.120 The question,
00:14:56.580 what about the Jews?
00:14:57.480 What about the Jews?
00:14:58.400 Oh, I'm an anti-Semite now.
00:14:59.900 Senator, you're asking
00:15:00.820 the questions, Tucker.
00:15:02.260 You're asking,
00:15:03.520 why are the Jews
00:15:04.480 controlling our foreign policy?
00:15:05.840 That's what you just asked.
00:15:07.080 Senator, I am hardly
00:15:07.320 saying that.
00:15:08.120 And I have many...
00:15:08.600 That is exactly
00:15:09.240 what you just said.
00:15:10.540 It is, by the way,
00:15:11.540 exactly what you were saying
00:15:12.360 over and over again,
00:15:13.340 as you mentioned for so long.
00:15:14.780 And again,
00:15:16.200 the demonization
00:15:17.080 of Americans,
00:15:18.460 and many of them
00:15:19.080 that are Jewish,
00:15:19.620 that advocate
00:15:20.280 for Israel in America
00:15:21.900 and say they should be
00:15:23.240 a foreign lobbyist organization.
00:15:25.200 Look, I've spoken
00:15:26.240 at one of their events before.
00:15:27.480 I'm sure you've spoken
00:15:28.540 at countless events
00:15:29.520 for them before.
00:15:30.600 The idea that there's
00:15:31.640 some foreign agency
00:15:32.640 is absurd.
00:15:33.720 Yeah, and he also
00:15:34.680 had a whole line
00:15:35.600 of inquiry.
00:15:36.780 Isn't it horrible
00:15:37.840 that Israel spies
00:15:39.140 on America?
00:15:39.680 And my response was,
00:15:41.480 every one of our allies
00:15:42.640 spies on America.
00:15:43.940 We spy on every one
00:15:45.080 of our allies.
00:15:45.760 That's real politic.
00:15:47.240 That's the world
00:15:47.860 we live in.
00:15:48.880 And he could not
00:15:50.020 acknowledge that point.
00:15:50.920 He said, no, no,
00:15:51.340 but Israel does it.
00:15:52.080 It's terrible
00:15:52.520 that Israel does it.
00:15:53.660 And it was bizarrely focused.
00:15:56.500 Okay, look,
00:15:57.060 the Brits spy on us,
00:15:57.960 the Canadians spy on us,
00:15:59.020 the French spy on us,
00:16:00.080 everybody spies on us,
00:16:01.240 and we spy on everybody.
00:16:02.940 Welcome to reality
00:16:04.300 because conservatives
00:16:05.220 are not simple and naive.
00:16:07.400 And yet the criticism
00:16:08.520 that is directed at Israel
00:16:09.860 sadly is unique
00:16:11.960 and I think really unfortunate.
00:16:15.020 Canadian women
00:16:15.860 are looking for more,
00:16:17.200 more out of themselves,
00:16:18.260 their businesses,
00:16:19.200 their elected leaders,
00:16:20.140 and the world around them.
00:16:21.360 And that's why we're thrilled
00:16:22.340 to introduce
00:16:22.980 the Honest Talk podcast.
00:16:25.100 I'm Jennifer Stewart.
00:16:26.220 And I'm Catherine Clark.
00:16:27.500 And in this podcast,
00:16:28.460 we interview Canada's
00:16:29.620 most inspiring women.
00:16:31.240 Entrepreneurs,
00:16:31.940 artists,
00:16:32.620 athletes,
00:16:33.220 politicians,
00:16:33.960 and newsmakers,
00:16:34.820 all at different stages
00:16:35.860 of their journey.
00:16:37.020 So if you're looking
00:16:38.040 to connect,
00:16:38.820 then we hope you'll join us.
00:16:40.240 Listen to the Honest Talk podcast
00:16:41.620 on iHeartRadio
00:16:42.620 or wherever you listen
00:16:43.600 to your podcasts.
00:16:46.080 I want to get back
00:16:47.120 into the Tucker Carlson
00:16:48.180 interview that you did.
00:16:49.680 And Senator,
00:16:50.380 there was some interesting themes
00:16:52.480 that came out of this interview.
00:16:53.960 He was obviously attacking you.
00:16:56.200 He was attacking Israel.
00:16:58.120 He was attacking groups
00:16:59.500 that support Israel.
00:17:00.820 But then there was
00:17:01.920 an even weirder point
00:17:03.160 where I think Tucker
00:17:04.400 probably is hoping
00:17:05.340 that we don't play this
00:17:06.800 or that people didn't
00:17:07.720 watch the whole interview
00:17:08.600 and hear this part.
00:17:10.320 It was about
00:17:10.820 the Iranian regime.
00:17:12.280 They've been trying
00:17:13.040 to murder Donald Trump.
00:17:14.200 They've hired hitmen.
00:17:15.300 They've been trying
00:17:15.940 to hire hitmen.
00:17:16.740 They've come after
00:17:17.480 former cabinet members
00:17:18.640 of Donald Trump.
00:17:19.440 And when you brought it up,
00:17:21.200 he acted like
00:17:22.120 he'd never heard of this before
00:17:23.320 and that you were either lying
00:17:24.560 or this is shocking news to him.
00:17:26.800 Yeah,
00:17:26.980 this was utterly bizarre.
00:17:28.620 And I got to say,
00:17:29.180 in the whole course
00:17:29.820 of the two-hour interview,
00:17:30.820 this was the strangest portion.
00:17:32.060 For the last two years,
00:17:33.980 Iran has been actively
00:17:35.260 trying to murder
00:17:36.080 President Donald Trump.
00:17:37.700 Iran has hired hitmen
00:17:39.280 to murder President Trump.
00:17:41.160 Iran also has been
00:17:42.140 trying to murder
00:17:42.880 Mike Pompeo,
00:17:44.520 President Trump's
00:17:45.140 former Secretary of State,
00:17:46.740 John Bolton,
00:17:47.680 President Trump's
00:17:48.440 former National Security Advisor,
00:17:50.360 and Brian Hook,
00:17:51.320 President Trump's
00:17:51.960 former Assistant Secretary of State.
00:17:53.640 All of them.
00:17:54.820 Iran has hired hitmen
00:17:55.880 and has been targeting them.
00:17:58.040 Bizarrely,
00:17:58.720 and this has been widely reported,
00:18:00.620 these are objective facts,
00:18:02.460 but bizarrely,
00:18:03.760 Tucker Carlson insisted
00:18:04.980 this has never happened.
00:18:07.240 Here,
00:18:07.700 give a listen.
00:18:08.620 I just want to pull that thread
00:18:09.820 because it's so important.
00:18:10.880 I voted for Donald Trump.
00:18:11.740 I campaigned for Donald Trump.
00:18:12.960 He's our president.
00:18:14.300 And we're on the cusp of a war.
00:18:15.520 So if Iran,
00:18:16.560 if there's evidence
00:18:17.440 that Iran paid hitmen
00:18:18.580 to kill Donald Trump
00:18:19.360 and is currently doing that,
00:18:21.000 where is that?
00:18:21.660 What are you even talking?
00:18:22.700 I've never heard that before.
00:18:24.020 Okay.
00:18:24.660 Where is the evidence?
00:18:25.520 Who are these people?
00:18:26.260 Why haven't they been arrested?
00:18:27.300 Why are we not at war with Iran?
00:18:28.640 That's a great question to ask.
00:18:30.580 How do you know that that's true?
00:18:32.060 We know that it's true
00:18:33.500 because we have been told that
00:18:35.560 by the military
00:18:37.200 and our intelligence community
00:18:38.480 for the last two years.
00:18:40.340 We meaning who?
00:18:41.660 Congress has in the public.
00:18:42.940 I mean,
00:18:43.080 they've had multiple testimonies.
00:18:44.380 I can send you testimony.
00:18:46.260 Do we know the names
00:18:47.140 of the people
00:18:47.600 or where this happened
00:18:48.400 or what they tried to do
00:18:49.300 to kill Trump?
00:18:50.720 We do not.
00:18:51.680 We have not apprehended
00:18:52.940 an Iranian hitman
00:18:53.980 trying to kill him.
00:18:55.060 We know that Iran
00:18:55.920 is trying to do so.
00:18:57.600 In the United States?
00:18:59.280 Yes.
00:18:59.800 And by the way,
00:19:00.520 like Iran...
00:19:01.580 This just seems like
00:19:02.280 a huge headline
00:19:02.980 and you're acting like
00:19:03.740 everyone knows this.
00:19:04.420 I didn't know that.
00:19:05.500 Iran put out a whole video
00:19:07.260 about murdering Trump.
00:19:09.340 Right.
00:19:09.700 But I've never heard evidence
00:19:12.020 that there are hitmen
00:19:12.740 in the United States.
00:19:13.760 I mean,
00:19:14.020 trying to kill Trump right now,
00:19:15.540 we should like
00:19:16.360 have a nationwide
00:19:17.300 dragnet on this
00:19:18.440 and we should attack Iran
00:19:19.620 immediately if that's true.
00:19:21.280 Don't you think?
00:19:22.360 No.
00:19:23.840 If they're trying
00:19:24.340 to assassinate our president?
00:19:25.640 They have been for two years.
00:19:27.160 They are our enemies.
00:19:28.000 Why don't we just nuke Tehran
00:19:32.020 if they're trying
00:19:32.420 to murder our president?
00:19:33.540 There's nothing
00:19:34.040 that you could do
00:19:35.000 that would be worse
00:19:35.860 for the United States
00:19:36.420 than murdering Trump.
00:19:37.860 And I just don't understand
00:19:38.820 why you're not calling
00:19:39.700 for the use of nuclear weapons
00:19:40.860 against the Ayatollah right now.
00:19:42.000 I'm serious.
00:19:42.600 If you really believe
00:19:43.420 they're trying to murder...
00:19:44.040 The use of nuclear weapons.
00:19:45.080 See, that's part of the problem.
00:19:47.080 What do you mean?
00:19:47.860 You don't seem to take
00:19:48.680 the allegations seriously.
00:19:49.680 I do.
00:19:50.200 If you believe
00:19:50.680 they're trying to murder Trump,
00:19:51.860 we need to stop
00:19:52.460 what we're doing
00:19:53.000 and punish them.
00:19:55.360 I mean,
00:19:56.040 insanely bizarre.
00:19:57.040 We went from
00:19:57.880 let's not do anything
00:19:59.100 to, oh,
00:19:59.840 they're trying to kill Trump.
00:20:00.900 Well, if that's true,
00:20:01.900 let's just nuke them.
00:20:03.600 So, you're right.
00:20:04.660 The entire two hours
00:20:05.860 Tucker's position was
00:20:07.240 do nothing on Iran,
00:20:08.180 do nothing on Iran,
00:20:08.980 do nothing on Iran,
00:20:10.120 do not support Israel,
00:20:11.440 do not support Israel,
00:20:12.340 do not support Israel.
00:20:13.260 But,
00:20:14.380 if Iran is trying
00:20:15.800 to murder Trump,
00:20:16.660 then we should nuke them.
00:20:19.080 Okay, Ben,
00:20:19.780 that's absolutely wacky.
00:20:21.740 And, look,
00:20:23.400 it's the sign of someone
00:20:24.320 who's not presenting
00:20:25.000 an argument in good faith.
00:20:26.160 No, we should not
00:20:27.120 be nuking Iran.
00:20:28.440 That's not a good idea.
00:20:30.340 And, by the way,
00:20:31.840 this is a point
00:20:33.100 where actually facts matter.
00:20:35.080 And part of what was frustrating
00:20:36.160 about this interview
00:20:36.980 is that Tucker
00:20:38.460 just says things
00:20:39.640 that are blatantly false
00:20:41.160 and he doesn't care
00:20:42.220 if they're true or false.
00:20:43.300 So, this is an objective fact.
00:20:45.240 I'm going to read to you
00:20:46.400 from a political article
00:20:47.980 on November 8th, 2024,
00:20:50.640 not very long ago.
00:20:51.700 Here's the title.
00:20:52.300 Iran ordered an operative
00:20:54.160 to assassinate Trump
00:20:55.380 before the election,
00:20:56.940 federal prosecutors say.
00:20:58.360 The alleged would-be assassin
00:20:59.560 is believed to be in Iran
00:21:00.720 and remains at large,
00:21:02.000 prosecutors said.
00:21:03.080 Here's the beginning
00:21:03.640 of the article.
00:21:04.480 The Iranian government
00:21:05.300 ordered an operative
00:21:06.220 to assassinate Donald Trump
00:21:07.600 before the 2024 election,
00:21:09.500 Manhattan federal prosecutors
00:21:10.740 said Friday.
00:21:11.680 The latest in a string
00:21:12.720 of assassination plots
00:21:14.020 directed at the former
00:21:15.260 and future president
00:21:16.140 in recent months.
00:21:18.020 Prosecutors charge
00:21:19.040 Farhad Shaqiri
00:21:20.120 with murder for hire
00:21:21.540 and providing material support
00:21:23.000 to foreign terrorist organization.
00:21:24.820 He is believed to be in Iran
00:21:25.900 and remains at large,
00:21:26.960 prosecutors said.
00:21:28.020 The article continues.
00:21:29.400 Quote,
00:21:29.920 According to a criminal complaint
00:21:31.340 unsealed in Manhattan
00:21:32.560 federal court,
00:21:33.600 Shaqiri said during
00:21:34.760 an FBI interview
00:21:35.940 that in September
00:21:37.560 he was directed
00:21:38.520 by the Islamic Revolutionary
00:21:40.520 Guard Corps of Iran
00:21:41.580 to surveil
00:21:42.880 and kill Trump,
00:21:45.280 whom the charging papers
00:21:46.440 identify as victim for.
00:21:47.900 When Shaqiri told
00:21:49.040 an IRGC official
00:21:50.200 that doing so
00:21:50.960 would prove expensive,
00:21:52.580 the official responded
00:21:53.580 that money's not an issue,
00:21:55.340 which Shaqiri understood
00:21:56.460 to mean that the IRGC
00:21:58.360 had previously spent
00:21:59.860 a significant sum of money
00:22:01.420 on efforts to murder victim for
00:22:03.660 and was willing
00:22:04.540 to continue spending
00:22:05.560 a lot of money
00:22:06.180 in its attempt
00:22:06.760 to procure victims
00:22:07.800 for assassination,
00:22:09.500 according to the charging papers.
00:22:10.920 So there's literally
00:22:11.980 a Department of Justice
00:22:13.140 indictment
00:22:14.040 specifically against
00:22:15.740 an assassin
00:22:16.520 for attempting
00:22:18.960 to murder Trump.
00:22:20.280 There also,
00:22:21.000 by the way,
00:22:21.340 was a separate assassin
00:22:22.460 who was arrested
00:22:23.620 for renting an apartment
00:22:24.720 next to John Bolton,
00:22:25.900 an Iranian assassin
00:22:26.740 that was there
00:22:27.340 to murder Trump's
00:22:28.500 former national security advisor.
00:22:30.040 And as I noted,
00:22:31.120 the Iranians put out
00:22:32.540 an entire video,
00:22:34.220 a minute and a half video.
00:22:35.560 It's an animated video
00:22:36.840 that shows Donald Trump
00:22:38.640 playing golf
00:22:39.900 and shows the Iranians
00:22:41.740 using a drone attack
00:22:43.280 to kill him.
00:22:44.560 All of that
00:22:45.380 is objectively true
00:22:47.540 and yet Tucker says,
00:22:48.940 I've never heard a word of it.
00:22:50.200 I don't know anything about this
00:22:51.360 and I want to play
00:22:52.580 this video right here.
00:22:54.080 This is in Farsi
00:22:54.760 but I want to play it
00:22:55.960 and then I'm going to tell you
00:22:56.560 what he's saying.
00:22:57.960 So give a listen.
00:23:13.280 So let's just be clear.
00:23:23.820 That's the IRGC commander
00:23:25.380 live on Islamic Republic
00:23:27.440 of Iran State TV
00:23:28.980 and tell people
00:23:30.800 what he just said.
00:23:32.100 Well, his name is
00:23:33.400 Amir Ali Hajizadeh.
00:23:36.160 He's the commander
00:23:36.880 of the IRGC.
00:23:37.920 He's on national television
00:23:39.300 and he says,
00:23:40.440 quote,
00:23:40.940 God willing,
00:23:42.080 we'll be able to kill
00:23:43.140 Trump,
00:23:44.080 Pompeo,
00:23:45.120 General McKenzie
00:23:46.020 and other U.S. commanders.
00:23:48.200 That's on TV.
00:23:49.480 Now, Tucker spent
00:23:50.460 the entire interview
00:23:51.480 denying
00:23:52.260 that Iran
00:23:53.940 was trying to kill
00:23:54.840 President Trump.
00:23:55.680 That's objectively false.
00:23:57.420 Facts matter.
00:23:58.220 And bizarrely,
00:23:59.060 he said,
00:23:59.480 well, if that fact was true,
00:24:00.820 he thought we should
00:24:01.560 immediately attack Iran
00:24:02.600 and we should nuke Iran.
00:24:03.980 Well, no,
00:24:04.600 that's not the case.
00:24:05.600 We should not nuke Iran.
00:24:06.960 But we should do
00:24:08.320 what President Trump
00:24:09.040 is doing right now,
00:24:09.980 which is support Israel
00:24:11.080 in taking out Iran's
00:24:12.920 nuclear capability
00:24:13.860 and their senior
00:24:14.640 military leadership.
00:24:15.940 That actually makes sense.
00:24:17.140 And I'll tell you,
00:24:18.060 the day after our interview aired,
00:24:20.200 President Trump was asked
00:24:21.600 about the conflict
00:24:23.240 between me and Tucker
00:24:24.140 in the Oval Office.
00:24:25.380 And here,
00:24:25.920 give a listen to the back and forth
00:24:27.100 President Trump had
00:24:28.460 in the Oval with a reporter.
00:24:29.860 Have you seen
00:24:30.480 the Tucker Carlson
00:24:31.560 and Senator Ted Cruz interview?
00:24:32.900 It seems like this issue
00:24:33.760 on whether or not
00:24:34.400 the United States
00:24:35.100 should strike
00:24:35.720 is kind of dividing
00:24:36.560 a lot of your supporters.
00:24:39.540 No, my supporters
00:24:40.740 are for me.
00:24:42.000 My supporters
00:24:42.740 are America first.
00:24:44.080 They make America great again.
00:24:45.780 My supporters
00:24:46.440 don't want to see Iran
00:24:47.460 have a nuclear weapon.
00:24:48.960 Tucker's a nice guy.
00:24:49.880 He called,
00:24:50.400 apologized the other day
00:24:51.720 because he thought
00:24:52.700 he said things
00:24:53.380 were a little bit too strong.
00:24:55.480 And I appreciated that.
00:24:56.900 And Ted Cruz is a nice guy.
00:24:58.580 I mean,
00:24:58.720 he's been with me
00:24:59.420 for a long time.
00:25:00.280 I'd say once the race was over,
00:25:01.760 he's been with me
00:25:02.400 ever since, right?
00:25:03.160 But very simple.
00:25:06.780 If they think
00:25:07.740 that it's okay
00:25:08.480 for Iran
00:25:09.300 to have a nuclear weapon,
00:25:10.620 then they should oppose me.
00:25:12.460 But nobody thinks
00:25:13.220 it's okay.
00:25:14.620 This goes back
00:25:15.620 to the very beginning
00:25:16.540 and why I think
00:25:18.260 Tucker was so hostile.
00:25:20.480 He wanted a distraction
00:25:21.580 from the fact
00:25:22.240 that he had messed up
00:25:23.280 with Trump.
00:25:23.840 He had to call Trump
00:25:24.740 and apologize.
00:25:26.160 And he thought,
00:25:26.680 all right,
00:25:26.920 if I just go after Ted Cruz,
00:25:28.640 maybe that'll fix
00:25:29.360 all my problems.
00:25:30.260 I don't think it worked.
00:25:31.480 Well, and look,
00:25:32.460 the reason that Tucker
00:25:33.760 had to apologize to Trump
00:25:35.080 is that he had been
00:25:35.840 publicly blasting Trump.
00:25:37.360 He said Trump was
00:25:38.320 complicit in Israel's war.
00:25:40.860 And he said,
00:25:41.660 he said what Trump was doing
00:25:42.840 was not America first.
00:25:44.340 And President Trump
00:25:45.260 tweeted out and said,
00:25:46.560 look, I'm the one
00:25:47.580 who created America first
00:25:48.860 and I decide what it is.
00:25:50.440 And allowing Iran
00:25:51.940 to have a nuclear weapon,
00:25:52.940 that is not America first.
00:25:54.580 And that's exactly
00:25:55.260 what President Trump said
00:25:56.560 in the Oval.
00:25:58.220 You know what's amazing?
00:25:59.600 We've laid out the facts
00:26:01.820 that is undisputed.
00:26:03.040 By the way,
00:26:03.440 out of 100 senators,
00:26:04.780 all 100 agree
00:26:06.080 that Iran is trying
00:26:07.020 to murder President Trump.
00:26:08.340 Even the looniest,
00:26:09.940 even Bernie Sanders,
00:26:10.960 even Elizabeth Warren
00:26:11.820 doesn't dispute
00:26:12.720 that Iran is trying
00:26:13.660 to murder Trump
00:26:14.240 because it's an objective fact.
00:26:15.780 I've laid them out,
00:26:17.060 those facts out repeatedly.
00:26:18.700 You know,
00:26:18.920 Tucker has not responded
00:26:19.780 once to that.
00:26:20.580 He has not said,
00:26:21.360 oh, I was wrong on that.
00:26:22.920 He hasn't said,
00:26:23.420 oh, well, gosh,
00:26:24.220 I said if that was the case,
00:26:25.300 we should attack Iran
00:26:26.040 immediately and nuke them,
00:26:27.300 which, by the way,
00:26:27.920 to be clear,
00:26:28.340 we should not.
00:26:29.280 At the end of the day,
00:26:30.800 facts matter.
00:26:32.080 And the good news is
00:26:33.820 the commander-in-chief's job
00:26:35.480 is to be clear-eyed
00:26:36.900 and do what is necessary
00:26:38.220 to keep America safe.
00:26:39.800 President Trump
00:26:40.600 is doing that.
00:26:42.020 I spoke to him
00:26:42.780 just a few days ago
00:26:43.660 and I said,
00:26:44.080 Mr. President,
00:26:44.720 thank you.
00:26:45.360 Thank you for standing
00:26:46.180 with Israel.
00:26:46.820 Thank you for standing
00:26:47.520 up for America.
00:26:48.660 Thank you for defending
00:26:49.380 our servicemen and women.
00:26:50.600 You notice Iran
00:26:51.780 has not attacked
00:26:52.520 our servicemen and women
00:26:53.420 because the president
00:26:54.100 has made clear
00:26:54.720 the consequences
00:26:55.520 would be massive
00:26:57.220 for doing so.
00:26:58.340 And President Trump
00:26:59.360 right now
00:26:59.940 is being strong
00:27:01.520 and resolute
00:27:02.400 and I'm proud
00:27:03.520 to stand with the president
00:27:04.560 that he is doing
00:27:05.800 exactly the right thing.
00:27:07.400 He is embodying
00:27:08.840 America first
00:27:09.540 and he's keeping
00:27:10.040 this country safe.
00:27:10.780 And there's one big
00:27:12.860 definition
00:27:14.100 that has been
00:27:15.760 coming up
00:27:16.660 and I've seen it a lot
00:27:18.000 and I've been asked about
00:27:19.080 especially since this interview
00:27:20.860 and it's the argument
00:27:22.300 or the word
00:27:23.500 isolationist
00:27:24.780 or isolationism.
00:27:26.280 What does that mean?
00:27:28.020 And then your thoughts
00:27:29.620 on it, Senator,
00:27:30.460 so people understand it
00:27:31.540 but also what is your
00:27:32.820 foreign policy
00:27:34.000 so people understand
00:27:34.840 you're not an isolationist
00:27:36.720 and you're not
00:27:37.460 one of those
00:27:38.080 that's like,
00:27:38.580 hey, let's go to war
00:27:39.240 everywhere we can either.
00:27:40.120 Yeah, that's exactly right
00:27:41.700 and this is something
00:27:42.720 we talked about
00:27:43.540 quite a bit
00:27:44.560 in the interview
00:27:46.660 with Tucker Carlson
00:27:47.640 and when he wasn't
00:27:49.540 screaming at me
00:27:50.320 and it wasn't
00:27:50.920 a mud mess
00:27:52.580 we actually laid out
00:27:54.780 some really important
00:27:55.940 basic philosophy
00:27:56.900 on foreign policy.
00:27:58.280 Look, historically
00:27:59.660 there have been
00:28:00.360 two polls
00:28:01.300 in Republican foreign policy.
00:28:03.560 On the one side
00:28:04.540 you've had
00:28:04.920 the interventionists
00:28:05.760 they've been people
00:28:06.380 like John McCain
00:28:07.360 people like Lindsey Graham
00:28:08.800 who are eager
00:28:10.840 to use
00:28:11.580 U.S. military force
00:28:12.880 who are frequently
00:28:13.620 advocating
00:28:14.380 for a robust
00:28:16.760 use of military force.
00:28:20.020 On the other poll
00:28:21.100 you have
00:28:22.720 the isolationist
00:28:23.720 and the most notable
00:28:24.620 of those
00:28:25.260 are Ron Paul
00:28:26.620 and Rand Paul
00:28:27.600 and Tucker Carlson
00:28:29.020 I think is now
00:28:29.840 emphatically
00:28:30.460 in that category
00:28:31.320 as well.
00:28:32.580 And their view
00:28:33.480 is that America
00:28:34.900 should withdraw
00:28:35.600 from the world
00:28:36.220 that we have
00:28:37.260 two giant oceans
00:28:38.200 on both sides
00:28:39.120 and we should not
00:28:40.240 employ the military
00:28:41.080 as Tucker said
00:28:42.160 in an earlier clip
00:28:43.180 we played
00:28:43.660 we should never
00:28:45.060 kill anybody
00:28:45.680 which means
00:28:46.360 our military
00:28:46.920 should never engage
00:28:48.060 with our enemies.
00:28:49.640 I've always considered
00:28:50.820 and most people
00:28:51.840 look at that
00:28:52.380 and say
00:28:52.680 okay you gotta be
00:28:53.300 one or the other
00:28:53.900 I've always thought
00:28:55.560 both views were wrong
00:28:56.820 I disagree with both
00:28:58.400 I disagree with
00:28:59.240 interventionists
00:28:59.900 I disagree with
00:29:01.260 isolationists
00:29:02.060 I consider myself
00:29:03.680 a third point
00:29:05.160 on the triangle
00:29:05.700 I consider myself
00:29:06.760 a non-interventionist
00:29:09.120 hawk
00:29:10.400 now what does that mean
00:29:11.200 it means
00:29:11.780 that I am
00:29:12.620 exceptionally reluctant
00:29:13.920 to use
00:29:14.780 U.S. military force
00:29:16.080 we should have
00:29:17.320 a very high threshold
00:29:18.480 for sending our sons
00:29:19.400 and daughters
00:29:19.800 into harm's way
00:29:20.540 we should not
00:29:21.260 engage in
00:29:22.300 unnecessary wars
00:29:23.400 but
00:29:24.000 and this is a very
00:29:24.720 important but
00:29:25.400 the touchstone
00:29:27.300 for all foreign policy
00:29:28.760 and military action
00:29:30.580 should be
00:29:31.800 the vital
00:29:32.560 national security
00:29:33.660 interest
00:29:34.060 of the United States
00:29:35.080 so
00:29:35.840 I oppose
00:29:37.460 the Iraq war
00:29:38.340 the Iraq war
00:29:39.280 under George W. Bush
00:29:40.460 I think was a mistake
00:29:41.580 it ended up
00:29:42.820 making America
00:29:43.540 less safe
00:29:44.220 we toppled
00:29:44.980 a dictator
00:29:45.520 Saddam Hussein
00:29:46.460 who was killing
00:29:47.400 radical Islamic terrorists
00:29:48.640 and what happened
00:29:49.320 the radical Islamic terrorists
00:29:50.840 took over
00:29:51.320 and they began
00:29:51.760 killing Americans
00:29:52.540 that was bad
00:29:54.140 I also oppose
00:29:55.620 what happened
00:29:56.060 in Libya
00:29:56.480 Qaddafi
00:29:57.400 was another dictator
00:29:58.960 he was killing
00:29:59.980 radical Islamic terrorists
00:30:01.220 we toppled
00:30:02.000 Qaddafi
00:30:02.900 and the radical Islamic terrorists
00:30:04.420 took over
00:30:04.860 and began
00:30:05.180 killing Americans
00:30:05.840 that was bad
00:30:06.860 the touchstone
00:30:08.420 should be
00:30:09.520 does this make America
00:30:10.920 more safe
00:30:11.580 does this protect
00:30:12.360 Americans
00:30:13.040 and the reason
00:30:15.120 I believe
00:30:16.020 that President Trump
00:30:17.040 is exactly right
00:30:18.140 to support
00:30:18.740 Israel
00:30:19.620 in stopping
00:30:20.780 Iran's nuclear weapons
00:30:22.200 capability
00:30:22.740 is because
00:30:24.100 Iran with a nuclear
00:30:25.300 weapon poses
00:30:26.140 a clear threat
00:30:27.340 to the safety
00:30:28.540 and security
00:30:29.160 of America
00:30:29.780 and a clear threat
00:30:30.900 of murdering
00:30:31.640 a vast number
00:30:33.040 of Americans
00:30:33.560 that's why
00:30:34.340 Israel is acting
00:30:35.260 that's why
00:30:35.840 President Trump
00:30:37.060 is acting
00:30:37.540 and I'll point out
00:30:38.560 Ben
00:30:38.780 when I say
00:30:40.100 non-interventionist talk
00:30:41.500 that's a fancy way
00:30:43.060 of saying
00:30:43.600 what President Reagan
00:30:44.800 referred to
00:30:45.560 as peace
00:30:46.400 through strength
00:30:47.060 be strong enough
00:30:48.140 that your enemies
00:30:49.020 don't want to mess with you
00:30:50.080 if you want to avoid war
00:30:51.160 be strong
00:30:52.160 when you're weak
00:30:53.000 when you're isolationist
00:30:54.220 you end up with more war
00:30:55.820 because your enemies
00:30:56.700 are aggressive
00:30:57.320 because they know
00:30:58.080 you're weak
00:30:58.600 it is also
00:30:59.620 I believe
00:31:00.620 exactly what
00:31:01.960 President Trump's
00:31:02.760 foreign policy is
00:31:03.620 it's what he has done
00:31:04.920 consistently
00:31:06.040 and I agree
00:31:07.680 with President Trump's
00:31:08.640 foreign policy
00:31:09.260 and I will say
00:31:10.140 that that's true
00:31:11.100 on Iran
00:31:11.560 that's true
00:31:12.000 on Israel
00:31:12.380 but it's also true
00:31:13.160 on Russia
00:31:13.560 and I want you to listen
00:31:14.640 to a back and forth
00:31:16.220 that Tucker
00:31:17.300 and I had on Russia
00:31:18.280 because that's another area
00:31:19.980 where clarity
00:31:21.020 is valuable
00:31:21.780 and here
00:31:22.500 give a listen
00:31:23.020 I don't think
00:31:23.860 that Putin
00:31:24.500 loves us
00:31:25.360 I'm distressed
00:31:27.120 by the moral condition
00:31:28.000 of most leaders
00:31:28.680 around the world
00:31:29.340 most of them
00:31:29.900 they all kill people
00:31:30.760 I'm against that
00:31:31.600 I'm just saying
00:31:32.460 I wish the focus here
00:31:34.440 was more on the United States
00:31:35.440 Can I say something
00:31:35.780 I actually don't agree
00:31:36.980 with that statement
00:31:37.580 they all kill people
00:31:38.460 there's a moral relativism
00:31:39.820 so I don't think
00:31:40.840 Donald Trump is a murderer
00:31:41.640 he doesn't kill people
00:31:42.580 we don't have concentration
00:31:43.420 Donald Trump a murderer
00:31:44.340 you just said
00:31:45.240 world leaders
00:31:45.820 all kill people
00:31:46.720 and there's a moral relativism
00:31:49.120 I'm hardly a moral relativist
00:31:51.020 but you are
00:31:51.600 you just
00:31:52.200 that statement
00:31:53.080 was the essence
00:31:53.820 of an anti-semite
00:31:54.820 an isolationist
00:31:55.760 a moral relativist
00:31:56.880 I'm okay
00:31:57.840 no
00:31:58.400 I'm not
00:31:58.880 did you just say
00:32:00.000 world leaders
00:32:00.780 all kill people
00:32:01.300 I'm saying
00:32:01.520 I'm against killing people
00:32:03.000 in general
00:32:03.600 and hyperventilating
00:32:05.640 about how Putin
00:32:06.460 was in the KGB
00:32:07.240 or whatever
00:32:07.700 I just want to serve
00:32:08.660 American interests
00:32:09.220 and pushing into China
00:32:10.220 is not in our interest
00:32:10.940 and you helped do it
00:32:12.240 and you haven't apologized
00:32:13.000 and by the way
00:32:14.660 you're the cheerleader
00:32:15.480 I helped drive him
00:32:16.460 into China
00:32:16.940 it's a complete lie
00:32:18.420 you funded the war
00:32:19.200 against him
00:32:19.740 no I authored
00:32:21.120 the legislation
00:32:21.800 that shut down
00:32:22.460 Nord Stream 2
00:32:23.060 that prevented the war
00:32:24.100 and if Trump
00:32:25.180 had still been
00:32:25.640 in the White House
00:32:26.180 we would have had the war
00:32:27.320 and look
00:32:28.180 the comment you made
00:32:29.280 the reason things
00:32:30.220 like moral relativism
00:32:31.120 are so dangerous
00:32:31.700 oh everyone kills people
00:32:32.740 no there is a difference
00:32:34.520 the United States
00:32:35.260 we don't have
00:32:36.500 concentration camps
00:32:37.640 we don't torture
00:32:38.860 and murder people
00:32:39.880 you look at China
00:32:40.780 where they've got
00:32:41.440 a million prisoners
00:32:42.720 in concentration camps
00:32:43.840 you look at Putin
00:32:44.620 where he's got
00:32:45.240 prisoners in Siberia
00:32:46.480 he tortures
00:32:47.820 and murders
00:32:48.400 his political opponents
00:32:49.420 Donald Trump
00:32:49.940 doesn't do that
00:32:50.520 America doesn't do that
00:32:51.320 and by the way
00:32:51.920 most other countries
00:32:53.500 don't do that
00:32:54.180 I see the game
00:32:55.140 it's like
00:32:55.640 I'm distressed
00:32:56.900 I'm distressed
00:32:58.040 no I'm responding
00:32:58.740 with facts
00:32:59.260 you don't like the facts
00:33:00.500 I don't even know
00:33:01.920 what facts you're talking about
00:33:02.960 I'm not saying
00:33:03.860 that Trump puts people
00:33:04.600 in concentration camps
00:33:05.340 I campaigned for Trump
00:33:06.380 I love Trump
00:33:06.900 so did I
00:33:07.400 okay
00:33:07.700 so this has nothing
00:33:08.760 to do with Trump
00:33:09.180 I'm merely saying
00:33:10.140 when you said
00:33:10.560 every world leader
00:33:11.280 kills people
00:33:11.920 it puts them all
00:33:12.980 emphasis on what's
00:33:13.980 happening inside the country
00:33:15.200 that's it
00:33:15.840 is there a moral
00:33:16.900 difference between
00:33:17.620 America and our enemies
00:33:18.780 is there a moral
00:33:19.440 difference between
00:33:19.860 America
00:33:20.160 and what is it
00:33:21.400 articulated
00:33:22.040 it's valuable
00:33:22.960 to say why
00:33:24.180 wow
00:33:24.760 and I think
00:33:25.740 that's one of the
00:33:26.340 biggest differences
00:33:27.240 between you
00:33:27.920 and Tucker Carlson
00:33:28.720 right there
00:33:29.360 in that conversation
00:33:30.300 yeah look
00:33:31.000 he would not say
00:33:32.060 that Putin
00:33:32.520 was a bad guy
00:33:33.520 he would not say
00:33:34.740 that President Trump
00:33:36.380 was right to take out
00:33:37.280 General Soleimani
00:33:38.040 he would not say
00:33:38.900 that President Trump
00:33:40.060 was right to take out
00:33:41.260 al-Baghdadi
00:33:41.880 the head of ISIS
00:33:42.760 he would not say
00:33:43.520 that President Trump
00:33:44.240 was right to take out
00:33:45.100 ISIS's caliphate
00:33:46.140 and here I want you
00:33:46.940 to listen to this
00:33:47.920 additional back and forth
00:33:49.480 we had on Russia
00:33:50.880 I don't understand
00:33:52.680 for some reason
00:33:53.840 you are really invested
00:33:56.600 in defending Russia
00:33:57.380 and I don't get that
00:33:58.240 I'm not attacking you
00:33:59.360 with that
00:33:59.580 I'm genuinely
00:34:00.220 like I don't get
00:34:01.100 why you're so passionate
00:34:02.780 about defending Russia
00:34:03.820 I mean wow
00:34:05.800 Senator the laughing
00:34:06.900 at the end by him
00:34:08.340 just because you were
00:34:09.800 killing him with the facts
00:34:11.840 really sums up
00:34:13.260 the entire two hour
00:34:14.200 interview in my opinion
00:34:15.160 it was an odd thing
00:34:16.840 because he would say
00:34:17.560 things that were
00:34:18.180 just wildly untrue
00:34:19.340 he'd said every world
00:34:20.200 leader kills people
00:34:21.020 and no it is not
00:34:23.180 equivalent Donald Trump
00:34:24.140 is not equivalent
00:34:24.880 to Vladimir Putin
00:34:25.660 and that's frankly
00:34:27.260 something that leftists
00:34:28.280 say and unfortunately
00:34:29.600 isolationists on the right
00:34:30.980 say it as well
00:34:31.660 and it's simply not true
00:34:33.200 you know we were
00:34:33.700 having this interview
00:34:34.700 in my office
00:34:36.140 and the dominant feature
00:34:37.900 in my office
00:34:38.440 is a gigantic painting
00:34:40.620 of Ronald Reagan
00:34:41.880 in front of the
00:34:42.380 Brandenburg Gate
00:34:43.080 and above him
00:34:44.020 in German
00:34:44.820 are the words
00:34:46.040 tear down this wall
00:34:47.120 in the style
00:34:47.860 of the graffiti
00:34:48.440 I think those are
00:34:49.600 the most important words
00:34:50.640 uttered in modern times
00:34:51.820 and they call for the
00:34:53.280 importance of
00:34:53.920 American leadership
00:34:54.980 now as I make clear
00:34:56.040 this interview
00:34:56.520 I don't want us
00:34:57.360 to be at war with Russia
00:34:58.500 we should not be
00:34:59.300 at war with Russia
00:35:00.060 but it doesn't mean
00:35:01.320 we need to be cheerleaders
00:35:02.500 for Russia
00:35:03.340 that we need to be
00:35:04.620 cutting essentially
00:35:05.640 infomercials for
00:35:06.620 Russian grocery stores
00:35:07.780 we ought to speak
00:35:09.140 the truth
00:35:09.700 and the bully pulpit
00:35:10.520 of the presidency
00:35:11.160 is incredibly powerful
00:35:12.260 and I gotta say again
00:35:13.600 President Trump
00:35:14.180 is doing that beautifully
00:35:15.120 the entire point
00:35:16.200 of this interview
00:35:16.840 was for me to make
00:35:17.820 absolutely clear
00:35:18.880 that on Israel
00:35:19.740 on Iran
00:35:20.700 President Trump
00:35:21.700 is right
00:35:22.140 and Tucker Carlson
00:35:23.420 is wrong
00:35:23.900 and we stand with Israel
00:35:25.420 and we will keep
00:35:26.440 the American people
00:35:27.700 safe
00:35:28.440 don't forget
00:35:29.680 we do this show
00:35:30.700 Monday, Wednesday
00:35:31.440 and Friday
00:35:32.280 and make sure
00:35:33.380 you hit that
00:35:33.660 subscribe or auto
00:35:34.660 download button
00:35:35.520 wherever you get
00:35:36.400 your podcast
00:35:37.000 so you do not
00:35:37.580 miss an episode
00:35:38.320 and also
00:35:39.260 tomorrow
00:35:39.840 on Saturday
00:35:40.520 we'll have the
00:35:41.140 week in review
00:35:42.160 some of the top
00:35:42.840 things we talked
00:35:43.400 about this past
00:35:44.140 week that you
00:35:44.660 may have missed
00:35:45.220 so make sure
00:35:45.760 you listen to that
00:35:46.380 as well
00:35:46.820 and the Senate
00:35:47.600 and I will see
00:35:48.000 you back here
00:35:48.460 Saturday morning
00:35:49.220 this is an
00:35:50.940 iHeart Podcast
00:35:51.860 Guaranteed Human
00:35:53.860 meeting
00:35:54.120 you
00:35:56.580 you
00:35:57.620 you