Verdict with Ted Cruz - Cruz vs Tucker Debate： On Israel & Iran- Trump is Right, Tucker is Wrong

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

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00:00:05.580 Welcome.

00:00:06.200 It is Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you.

00:00:09.080 It's so nice to have you with us.

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00:00:13.100 and we are thrilled to have you with us as well.

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00:00:27.640 Senator, we've got a lot to talk about on the show,

00:00:30.240 but let's just start with the big thing everybody's wanting to hear about,

00:00:33.740 and that is your sit-down interview in your office with Tucker Carlson.

00:00:38.500 Well, this week I sat down with Tucker Carlson.

00:00:41.140 We did a two-hour interview in my office,

00:00:44.120 and I've got to tell you it was a bloodbath.

00:00:46.040 The two of us, frankly, beat the living daylights out of each other for two hours straight.

00:00:52.900 It was, there were fireworks, I'll tell you online,

00:00:55.720 there have been over 100 million views on clips from this show.

00:01:00.580 It was vigorous.

00:01:02.820 It was contested.

00:01:04.040 It was, look, it laid out two very different views on foreign policy,

00:01:09.520 and it's what we're going to talk about today.

00:01:12.160 Yeah, it really is incredible on the foreign policy front.

00:01:15.720 So let's just start with the basic question that I think so many people have been asking me

00:01:19.880 when they saw the snippets of this interview,

00:01:22.200 and I would actually encourage people to watch the entire interview,

00:01:25.160 not just the little things that popped on social media.

00:01:28.760 But number one, like, why did you decide to do this interview with him,

00:01:33.140 and did you think it was going to be like this?

00:01:36.820 Well, let me start with the second part first.

00:01:38.680 Yes, I knew exactly what it was going to be.

00:01:41.760 I knew that Tucker, when he asked for the interview,

00:01:44.180 I knew that he was doing it to come after me.

00:01:46.740 I knew he was going to come in and just be swinging as hard as he could.

00:01:50.780 And I went in.

00:01:51.820 I wasn't looking to pick a fight.

00:01:53.920 And, in fact, we started the interview with my pointing out.

00:01:57.540 I said, Tucker, listen, you and I, we agree on about 80% of issues.

00:02:02.200 We agree across the board.

00:02:03.380 And I said, Tucker, you have been fantastic on a ton of issues.

00:02:07.940 You've been fantastic on securing the border.

00:02:10.120 That is a deep passion of mine.

00:02:11.860 We've got to secure the border.

00:02:13.680 And when Joe Biden and the Democrats had opened borders,

00:02:16.100 you were ferocious in fighting for that,

00:02:18.340 which I have been fighting alongside that with all my might.

00:02:22.560 I will say during COVID, during the COVID lockdowns,

00:02:26.540 Tucker was phenomenal.

00:02:28.260 In fact, in the middle of the COVID lockdowns,

00:02:30.660 I called Tucker back when he had a show on Fox,

00:02:32.960 and I told him, I said, Tucker, your evening monologues

00:02:36.140 are the single best thing on television.

00:02:38.720 I listened to them.

00:02:40.420 I consumed them like crack every night because they are so good

00:02:43.820 because he was speaking out.

00:02:44.860 He was speaking out powerfully against the insanity

00:02:47.020 of shutting down our country,

00:02:49.020 against the insanity of shutting down small businesses,

00:02:51.420 against the insanity of shutting down churches,

00:02:53.620 against the insanity of shutting down schools.

00:02:55.800 And over 10 million kids did not go to in-person school

00:02:59.380 for over a year.

00:03:00.340 And by the way, the data all show the learning loss to kids 1.00

00:03:04.560 from that idiotic social experiment 1.00

00:03:06.800 is going to be with them their entire life. 1.00

00:03:08.980 I think 10, 20, 30, 40 years from now,

00:03:11.260 we're going to look back and say, 0.99

00:03:13.020 what idiocy prompted this country to shut down schools 1.00

00:03:17.020 and hurt so many kids? 0.99

00:03:18.280 So on all of those issues, on free speech,

00:03:20.740 on the Second Amendment, Tucker's been fantastic,

00:03:23.660 and we are on exactly the same page on all of those issues.

00:03:27.180 Now, I did acknowledge there are issues on which we disagree.

00:03:31.680 I knew that Tucker wanted the interview

00:03:34.480 because he wanted to come after me.

00:03:36.460 And I knew that it was going to be particularly spicy,

00:03:39.820 a lot of fireworks,

00:03:41.240 because Tucker in the last week

00:03:43.360 has gotten really crosswise with President Trump.

00:03:46.820 Tucker has blasted the president

00:03:48.840 and said that the president was complicit in Israel's war.

00:03:52.660 He said that the president's actions were not consistent

00:03:55.420 with America First.

00:03:57.180 And so I knew that Tucker was going to be hot

00:04:00.580 and that I was going to be the target to take his ire out.

00:04:03.740 But I did the interview because, listen,

00:04:07.240 although Tucker is right on a whole lot of issues,

00:04:09.760 on foreign policy, I think he's gone really off the rails.

00:04:13.540 He has gotten to a place of hardcore isolationism

00:04:18.000 that I think is really dangerous.

00:04:19.760 It's not good for America.

00:04:20.940 I disagree with it.

00:04:22.720 He does not want America to support Israel.

00:04:25.680 He does not want America to do anything

00:04:27.380 to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon.

00:04:30.300 And he is vocally and vigorously disagreeing

00:04:33.240 with President Trump.

00:04:34.060 And I thought it was important for me to do this interview

00:04:37.140 to explain what President Trump is doing

00:04:39.760 and to defend the president,

00:04:41.020 to stand with President Trump.

00:04:43.140 And I got to tell you,

00:04:43.940 the entire theme of my interview was very simple.

00:04:47.640 Donald Trump is right and Tucker on Iran and Israel,

00:04:52.300 you're wrong. 0.83

00:04:53.260 And that was the whole point of the interview.

00:04:55.380 That came across at great length.

00:04:57.800 Now, we did the interview on Tuesday

00:05:02.420 and then Tucker released it on Wednesday.

00:05:04.960 But before Wednesday, he released a little snippet.

00:05:07.060 And in two hours, look,

00:05:08.980 I'm going to give Tucker some credit.

00:05:10.180 He had a little gotcha moment.

00:05:11.340 So two hours of back and forth

00:05:12.520 and back and forth and back and forth.

00:05:14.080 And he decided to play a little gotcha moment.

00:05:16.700 So in the course of talking about Iran,

00:05:18.840 he asks me, he says,

00:05:20.860 well, what's the population of Iran?

00:05:23.240 And I thought about it for a second

00:05:25.160 and realized I didn't actually know

00:05:26.940 the exact population of Iran.

00:05:29.020 And so I just said, I don't know.

00:05:31.080 And he did the sort of classic Tucker,

00:05:33.360 what?

00:05:34.480 How can you not know that?

00:05:36.360 And I mean, he was, you know,

00:05:38.120 vibrating and looking as if I had,

00:05:41.360 you know, admitted to,

00:05:43.460 I don't know, committing treason or something.

00:05:46.220 And I just said, look,

00:05:47.280 I don't memorize population tables.

00:05:48.980 And he comes in with great joy and says,

00:05:55.260 and I asked him, I said,

00:05:56.140 what's the population of Iran?

00:05:57.120 He says, 92 million.

00:05:58.260 Actually, according to the Google searches afterwards,

00:06:01.060 it's 89 million.

00:06:01.980 So he was off 3 million,

00:06:02.940 which I think is funny

00:06:03.600 because I assume he Google searched it

00:06:05.100 right before the interview

00:06:05.960 so he could do his little gotcha.

00:06:08.520 And I'll confess this,

00:06:10.200 this may not be terribly credible,

00:06:11.480 but the truth of the matter is,

00:06:13.180 in my head,

00:06:14.780 what I was going to say

00:06:16.080 if I was guessing was 90 million.

00:06:17.920 So I was actually felt pretty good.

00:06:19.140 I'm like, huh, all right, pretty damn close.

00:06:21.300 But I said, look,

00:06:22.200 what difference does it make

00:06:23.360 if it's 90 million or 80 million or 100 million?

00:06:25.960 And the reason I didn't want to posit a guess 0.99

00:06:27.900 is because stupid and unfair interviews, 1.00

00:06:32.920 you play gotchas on this. 1.00

00:06:34.620 And I'll say things like population numbers,

00:06:36.500 there are all sorts of countries across the globe

00:06:38.320 that have sort of really surprising populations,

00:06:41.560 that they can have populations

00:06:42.860 that are either significantly bigger

00:06:44.860 than you would think

00:06:45.500 or significantly smaller than you would think.

00:06:47.440 And at the end of the day,

00:06:48.660 what I was talking about,

00:06:49.900 which is the Ayatollah, 0.99

00:06:51.800 a theocratic radical lunatic 1.00

00:06:53.200 who chants death to America 1.00

00:06:55.040 and is trying to develop a nuclear weapon,

00:06:57.600 the threat of that

00:06:58.720 is not remotely different

00:07:01.020 whether Iran has a population

00:07:03.180 of 80 million, 90 million, or 100 million.

00:07:05.580 So it was an irrelevant gotcha.

00:07:08.240 But that little clip,

00:07:09.720 what Tucker did is he released it

00:07:11.060 a day before the whole interview.

00:07:12.340 So he picked,

00:07:13.400 out of two hours,

00:07:14.120 he thought that was the best 60 seconds

00:07:15.660 because he did get me to say the words,

00:07:17.580 I don't know,

00:07:18.360 and he felt very gleeful on that.

00:07:19.840 I got to say the rest of the interview

00:07:22.260 as it played out,

00:07:23.640 there's a reason he wanted to start

00:07:24.920 with that clip

00:07:25.500 and that clip went viral

00:07:26.580 and that's fine.

00:07:28.760 But there's a reason he wanted

00:07:30.460 to start with that clip

00:07:31.460 because the rest of the interview,

00:07:33.920 Tucker's positions on Israel

00:07:35.280 were very clear.

00:07:36.100 He didn't want to stand with Israel. 0.83

00:07:37.520 He was,

00:07:39.420 and we're going to lay this out

00:07:40.780 in the course of the show,

00:07:41.900 deeply opposed to Israel.

00:07:43.480 And he was deeply opposed

00:07:45.440 to President Trump's policy.

00:07:46.920 And in fact,

00:07:47.460 he had been in writing

00:07:48.400 and vocally attacking President Trump.

00:07:51.180 And he didn't want to talk about that

00:07:53.380 in terms of putting it out,

00:07:54.400 the results of the interview.

00:07:55.460 But that's why I did the interview.

00:07:57.120 So I've done interviews

00:07:58.440 that have been pretty snarky.

00:08:00.020 I worked at CNN for a long time

00:08:01.980 as a conservative commentator.

00:08:03.660 Are you glad you did the interview?

00:08:05.200 Because I always got that question.

00:08:06.620 It's the same one I know

00:08:07.480 a lot of people want to ask you.

00:08:09.980 Absolutely.

00:08:10.600 A thousand percent yes.

00:08:12.420 Look,

00:08:13.040 could the interview

00:08:14.140 have been much better

00:08:15.280 if Tucker had wanted

00:08:16.860 to sit down

00:08:17.620 and have a reasonable,

00:08:19.740 thoughtful conversation,

00:08:21.100 let me speak,

00:08:22.320 let him speak,

00:08:23.140 us go back and forth,

00:08:24.700 and lay out

00:08:25.700 different visions

00:08:26.420 of foreign policy.

00:08:27.240 That would have been

00:08:27.780 a much, much better interview.

00:08:29.280 But Tucker didn't want to do that.

00:08:30.840 When he doesn't like

00:08:31.460 what you're saying,

00:08:32.100 he interrupts,

00:08:32.720 he gets snarky,

00:08:33.520 he insults you,

00:08:34.340 and you're going to hear all that

00:08:35.280 because that's what he did.

00:08:37.020 But that's fine.

00:08:38.900 I mean,

00:08:39.320 he decided he wanted

00:08:41.360 this interview

00:08:41.860 to be the two of us

00:08:42.600 screaming at each other,

00:08:43.300 so that's what it ended up being.

00:08:44.920 But I'm very glad

00:08:45.960 because it was important

00:08:47.120 to lay out the contrast.

00:08:49.400 Donald Trump is right

00:08:50.740 and Tucker Carlson is wrong

00:08:52.720 on Israel and Iran,

00:08:54.660 and I wanted to make

00:08:55.560 that absolutely clear.

00:08:56.860 One of the big differences

00:08:58.420 between the two of you

00:08:59.900 was on what success looks like,

00:09:02.560 especially when it comes to Israel

00:09:04.680 taking out top

00:09:05.820 Iranian military leadership.

00:09:07.420 Well, that's exactly right.

00:09:08.680 Israel right now

00:09:09.500 is taking out

00:09:10.320 the senior Iranian

00:09:11.360 military leadership,

00:09:12.780 and this is a regime

00:09:15.140 when the Ayatollah

00:09:16.140 chants death to America, 0.60

00:09:18.060 I believe him. 0.98

00:09:18.760 When he chants death to Israel,

00:09:20.520 I believe him.

00:09:21.240 When he calls Israel

00:09:22.380 the little Satan 0.99

00:09:23.360 and America the great Satan, 0.92

00:09:25.120 I believe that he believes that.

00:09:27.700 And so the Ayatollah's efforts

00:09:29.500 to develop nuclear weapons,

00:09:30.900 they are designed

00:09:31.560 for one very specific purpose,

00:09:33.620 which is to be able

00:09:35.000 to attack Israel and America.

00:09:37.680 And let me point out,

00:09:38.660 by the way,

00:09:39.420 there is a reason

00:09:40.360 the Ayatollah

00:09:41.080 has an ICBM program.

00:09:42.600 ICBM stands for

00:09:43.800 Intercontinental Ballistic Missile.

00:09:45.440 You do not need

00:09:46.580 an ICBM to attack Israel.

00:09:49.680 Right now,

00:09:50.500 Iran is pounding Israel 0.98

00:09:53.240 with ballistic missiles,

00:09:54.880 but Israel is relatively close

00:09:56.380 to Iran.

00:09:57.740 Iran wants an ICBM 1.00

00:09:59.440 for one purpose

00:10:00.380 and one purpose only,

00:10:01.660 to be able to carry

00:10:02.740 a nuclear warhead

00:10:03.860 to the United States of America.

00:10:05.600 And so that is the threat

00:10:07.040 we are facing,

00:10:07.760 and Israel is doing 0.51

00:10:09.380 an enormous favor

00:10:10.660 to America

00:10:11.780 by taking out

00:10:13.160 Iran's nuclear capability.

00:10:14.780 Here, give a listen

00:10:15.940 to Tucker and me

00:10:17.080 discussing exactly this point.

00:10:18.600 You want to ask,

00:10:19.500 how does supporting Israel

00:10:20.580 benefit us?

00:10:21.560 Right now,

00:10:22.220 this tiny little country,

00:10:23.640 the size of the state

00:10:24.640 of New Jersey,

00:10:25.240 is fighting our enemies

00:10:26.820 for us

00:10:27.540 and taking out

00:10:29.060 their top military leadership

00:10:30.420 and trying to take out

00:10:31.740 their nuclear capacity.

00:10:32.580 That makes America

00:10:33.960 much safer.

00:10:35.020 By the way,

00:10:35.540 you're absolutely right.

00:10:36.440 I mean,

00:10:36.760 Israel is taking out 1.00

00:10:38.100 top Iranian military leadership,

00:10:40.220 and yes,

00:10:41.220 Israel is fighting 0.97

00:10:42.080 our enemies right now

00:10:43.440 for us,

00:10:43.960 and not just America,

00:10:44.800 but many other countries

00:10:45.660 around the world.

00:10:46.840 Well,

00:10:47.300 and it benefits America.

00:10:49.300 Understand,

00:10:50.180 these nuclear weapons

00:10:51.540 are being developed

00:10:52.660 so they can attack America, 0.97

00:10:54.520 and it's not American soldiers

00:10:56.480 who are taking out

00:10:57.340 these nuclear facilities.

00:10:58.900 It is Israeli commandos 0.98

00:11:00.900 who are doing so.

00:11:01.680 that's something

00:11:02.740 we should be grateful for,

00:11:04.620 but Tucker Carlson

00:11:06.360 has been vigorously

00:11:07.880 criticizing President Trump

00:11:09.500 for standing with Israel

00:11:10.480 on this,

00:11:11.340 and here's another segment

00:11:12.580 with Tucker and me

00:11:13.700 discussing this point.

00:11:15.880 I'm totally opposed to that.

00:11:19.260 It's awful.

00:11:21.100 I am against killing

00:11:22.380 anybody, actually,

00:11:23.520 and especially foreign government.

00:11:25.740 I'm asking about

00:11:26.920 your allegation

00:11:27.760 and the Prime Minister

00:11:28.420 of Israel's allegation

00:11:29.500 that is around

00:11:31.660 trying to murder 0.99

00:11:32.840 the President. 1.00

00:11:33.780 Killing terrorists 1.00

00:11:34.380 is a good thing. 1.00

00:11:35.540 Killing people 1.00

00:11:36.000 who are trying 1.00

00:11:36.340 to murder Americans 0.98

00:11:37.060 is a good thing, 0.99

00:11:37.980 because if you're

00:11:38.740 America first,

00:11:40.360 you want to protect America,

00:11:42.440 and so taking out, 0.99

00:11:43.400 killing Osama bin Laden 0.98

00:11:44.400 was a fantastic day 0.98

00:11:45.720 for the world.

00:11:45.740 But you don't really believe

00:11:46.680 that they're trying

00:11:47.180 to murder Trump?

00:11:47.980 Yes, I do. 0.99

00:11:48.820 Yes, I do.

00:11:49.220 Then why aren't you...

00:11:49.860 Senator,

00:11:50.820 you said earlier

00:11:51.700 in the interview

00:11:52.800 with him at the beginning

00:11:53.480 and on this show

00:11:54.320 that you and Tucker

00:11:55.320 agree on about 80%

00:11:57.340 and the issues

00:11:57.840 like hardcore lockstep,

00:12:00.020 but this one here

00:12:01.940 is maybe the most insane point

00:12:04.040 where Tucker's like,

00:12:05.020 hey, I don't want to kill

00:12:05.980 anybody around the world

00:12:06.680 no matter what.

00:12:07.240 I'm like, hold on,

00:12:07.860 if you had a chance

00:12:08.440 to take out Hitler, 0.94

00:12:09.200 you wouldn't have done it?

00:12:09.940 Are you kidding me?

00:12:11.140 Well, this is unfortunately

00:12:12.880 a point that, frankly,

00:12:14.400 you see from a lot of people

00:12:15.420 on the far left.

00:12:16.240 You see from the sort of

00:12:17.580 Jimmy Carters of the world

00:12:19.400 and even Barack Obamas,

00:12:20.980 the kind of peaceniks

00:12:22.120 that say,

00:12:23.180 man, all war is bad.

00:12:24.660 Just, you know,

00:12:25.640 killing is bad.

00:12:26.560 I'm just opposed to killing.

00:12:28.720 And I get that

00:12:30.740 that sounds good

00:12:31.640 in a college faculty lounge,

00:12:33.600 but as I asked him

00:12:35.020 in the course of it,

00:12:35.740 I'm like,

00:12:37.020 do you think it's bad

00:12:38.560 that we killed

00:12:39.060 Osama bin Laden?

00:12:40.740 Do you think it's bad

00:12:41.900 that Hitler's dead?

00:12:44.240 Do you think it's bad 0.77

00:12:45.240 that we killed

00:12:45.740 General Soleimani?

00:12:46.700 Do you think it's bad

00:12:47.520 that, and let's be clear,

00:12:48.860 that President Trump

00:12:49.740 killed General Soleimani?

00:12:50.900 I asked him that.

00:12:51.680 He wouldn't answer that.

00:12:52.460 He wouldn't answer

00:12:53.440 if it was good or bad

00:12:55.580 that we killed 1.00

00:12:56.060 Osama bin Laden.

00:12:57.260 The idea that we should

00:12:58.660 never kill anybody

00:12:59.680 is an incredibly naive

00:13:01.760 and unrealistic position.

00:13:03.480 Look, I think we should

00:13:05.160 avoid unnecessary wars.

00:13:06.640 I think we should be

00:13:07.280 very reluctant

00:13:08.040 to put American servicemen

00:13:09.540 and women in harm's way. 1.00

00:13:11.300 But when you have terrorists, 0.99

00:13:13.260 killing Osama bin Laden

00:13:14.460 was a great day for America 0.55

00:13:16.060 and a great day for the world

00:13:17.440 because Osama bin Laden

00:13:18.960 murdered thousands of Americans

00:13:20.640 and waged war against America.

00:13:22.320 And anyone who is actually

00:13:24.680 focused on America first 0.56

00:13:26.240 and defending this nation

00:13:27.600 understands that there

00:13:30.140 are dangerous people

00:13:31.160 that are trying to kill Americans 0.99

00:13:32.640 and it's the job 0.98

00:13:33.820 of the commander-in-chief

00:13:34.640 to keep them safe.

00:13:35.600 Now, I will say

00:13:37.380 in a two-hour interview,

00:13:41.280 one of the things

00:13:42.040 that was striking

00:13:42.700 is 36 minutes

00:13:45.220 of the interview

00:13:46.640 was Tucker attacking me

00:13:49.600 for supporting Israel.

00:13:51.960 And in particular,

00:13:53.780 he was obsessed with AIPAC.

00:13:55.680 AIPAC is the America-Israel 0.99

00:13:58.880 Political Action Committee.

00:14:00.420 And he was going on

00:14:02.120 and on and on

00:14:02.780 about how AIPAC

00:14:04.060 should have to register

00:14:05.460 under FARO

00:14:07.200 the law that requires

00:14:08.840 that organizations

00:14:09.960 that are lobbying

00:14:10.780 on behalf of foreign governments

00:14:11.880 have to register.

00:14:13.280 Now, AIPAC is not lobbying

00:14:14.640 on behalf of a foreign government.

00:14:16.160 AIPAC consists of Americans.

00:14:18.240 It is Americans

00:14:19.200 who are standing up.

00:14:20.380 Now, there are Americans

00:14:21.000 who want a strong

00:14:22.160 U.S.-Israel relationship,

00:14:23.860 but they are not a lobbyist

00:14:25.700 for the nation of Israel.

00:14:27.280 And all told,

00:14:29.640 he asked 28 questions on AIPAC.

00:14:32.720 28 questions.

00:14:34.200 He asked 35 questions

00:14:35.880 on why I was supporting Israel.

00:14:37.460 And finally,

00:14:38.640 it led to this moment,

00:14:40.300 which was quite a bit of fireworks.

00:14:42.040 Here, give a listen.

00:14:43.760 By the way, Tucker,

00:14:45.460 it's a very weird thing.

00:14:47.980 The obsession with Israel.

00:14:49.920 When we're talking

00:14:50.300 about foreign countries,

00:14:51.040 it's hardly an obsession.

00:14:51.700 You're not talking

00:14:52.300 about Chinese.

00:14:53.000 You're not talking

00:14:53.440 about Japanese.

00:14:54.120 You're not talking

00:14:54.580 about the British.

00:14:55.120 You're not talking

00:14:55.520 about the French.

00:14:56.120 The question,

00:14:56.580 what about the Jews?

00:14:57.480 What about the Jews?

00:14:58.400 Oh, I'm an anti-Semite now.

00:14:59.900 Senator, you're asking

00:15:00.820 the questions, Tucker.

00:15:02.260 You're asking,

00:15:03.520 why are the Jews 1.00

00:15:04.480 controlling our foreign policy?

00:15:05.840 That's what you just asked.

00:15:07.080 Senator, I am hardly

00:15:07.320 saying that.

00:15:08.120 And I have many...

00:15:08.600 That is exactly

00:15:09.240 what you just said.

00:15:10.540 It is, by the way,

00:15:11.540 exactly what you were saying

00:15:12.360 over and over again,

00:15:13.340 as you mentioned for so long.

00:15:14.780 And again,

00:15:16.200 the demonization

00:15:17.080 of Americans,

00:15:18.460 and many of them

00:15:19.080 that are Jewish,

00:15:19.620 that advocate

00:15:20.280 for Israel in America

00:15:21.900 and say they should be

00:15:23.240 a foreign lobbyist organization.

00:15:25.200 Look, I've spoken

00:15:26.240 at one of their events before.

00:15:27.480 I'm sure you've spoken

00:15:28.540 at countless events

00:15:29.520 for them before.

00:15:30.600 The idea that there's

00:15:31.640 some foreign agency

00:15:32.640 is absurd.

00:15:33.720 Yeah, and he also

00:15:34.680 had a whole line

00:15:35.600 of inquiry.

00:15:36.780 Isn't it horrible

00:15:37.840 that Israel spies 0.73

00:15:39.140 on America?

00:15:39.680 And my response was,

00:15:41.480 every one of our allies

00:15:42.640 spies on America.

00:15:43.940 We spy on every one

00:15:45.080 of our allies.

00:15:45.760 That's real politic.

00:15:47.240 That's the world

00:15:47.860 we live in.

00:15:48.880 And he could not

00:15:50.020 acknowledge that point.

00:15:50.920 He said, no, no,

00:15:51.340 but Israel does it.

00:15:52.080 It's terrible

00:15:52.520 that Israel does it.

00:15:53.660 And it was bizarrely focused.

00:15:56.500 Okay, look,

00:15:57.060 the Brits spy on us,

00:15:57.960 the Canadians spy on us,

00:15:59.020 the French spy on us,

00:16:00.080 everybody spies on us,

00:16:01.240 and we spy on everybody.

00:16:02.940 Welcome to reality

00:16:04.300 because conservatives

00:16:05.220 are not simple and naive.

00:16:07.400 And yet the criticism

00:16:08.520 that is directed at Israel

00:16:09.860 sadly is unique

00:16:11.960 and I think really unfortunate.

00:16:15.020 Canadian women

00:16:15.860 are looking for more,

00:16:17.200 more out of themselves,

00:16:18.260 their businesses,

00:16:19.200 their elected leaders,

00:16:20.140 and the world around them.

00:16:21.360 And that's why we're thrilled

00:16:22.340 to introduce

00:16:22.980 the Honest Talk podcast.

00:16:25.100 I'm Jennifer Stewart.

00:16:26.220 And I'm Catherine Clark.

00:16:27.500 And in this podcast,

00:16:28.460 we interview Canada's

00:16:29.620 most inspiring women.

00:16:31.240 Entrepreneurs,

00:16:31.940 artists,

00:16:32.620 athletes,

00:16:33.220 politicians,

00:16:33.960 and newsmakers,

00:16:34.820 all at different stages

00:16:35.860 of their journey.

00:16:37.020 So if you're looking

00:16:38.040 to connect,

00:16:38.820 then we hope you'll join us.

00:16:40.240 Listen to the Honest Talk podcast

00:16:41.620 on iHeartRadio

00:16:42.620 or wherever you listen

00:16:43.600 to your podcasts.

00:16:46.080 I want to get back

00:16:47.120 into the Tucker Carlson

00:16:48.180 interview that you did.

00:16:49.680 And Senator,

00:16:50.380 there was some interesting themes

00:16:52.480 that came out of this interview.

00:16:53.960 He was obviously attacking you.

00:16:56.200 He was attacking Israel. 0.84

00:16:58.120 He was attacking groups

00:16:59.500 that support Israel.

00:17:00.820 But then there was

00:17:01.920 an even weirder point

00:17:03.160 where I think Tucker

00:17:04.400 probably is hoping

00:17:05.340 that we don't play this

00:17:06.800 or that people didn't

00:17:07.720 watch the whole interview

00:17:08.600 and hear this part.

00:17:10.320 It was about

00:17:10.820 the Iranian regime.

00:17:12.280 They've been trying 0.96

00:17:13.040 to murder Donald Trump. 0.98

00:17:14.200 They've hired hitmen. 0.99

00:17:15.300 They've been trying

00:17:15.940 to hire hitmen.

00:17:16.740 They've come after 0.99

00:17:17.480 former cabinet members

00:17:18.640 of Donald Trump.

00:17:19.440 And when you brought it up,

00:17:21.200 he acted like

00:17:22.120 he'd never heard of this before

00:17:23.320 and that you were either lying

00:17:24.560 or this is shocking news to him.

00:17:26.800 Yeah,

00:17:26.980 this was utterly bizarre.

00:17:28.620 And I got to say,

00:17:29.180 in the whole course

00:17:29.820 of the two-hour interview,

00:17:30.820 this was the strangest portion.

00:17:32.060 For the last two years,

00:17:33.980 Iran has been actively 0.98

00:17:35.260 trying to murder 0.75

00:17:36.080 President Donald Trump. 0.99

00:17:37.700 Iran has hired hitmen 1.00

00:17:39.280 to murder President Trump. 0.87

00:17:41.160 Iran also has been 0.96

00:17:42.140 trying to murder

00:17:42.880 Mike Pompeo,

00:17:44.520 President Trump's

00:17:45.140 former Secretary of State,

00:17:46.740 John Bolton,

00:17:47.680 President Trump's

00:17:48.440 former National Security Advisor,

00:17:50.360 and Brian Hook,

00:17:51.320 President Trump's

00:17:51.960 former Assistant Secretary of State.

00:17:53.640 All of them. 0.88

00:17:54.820 Iran has hired hitmen 1.00

00:17:55.880 and has been targeting them.

00:17:58.040 Bizarrely,

00:17:58.720 and this has been widely reported,

00:18:00.620 these are objective facts,

00:18:02.460 but bizarrely,

00:18:03.760 Tucker Carlson insisted

00:18:04.980 this has never happened.

00:18:07.240 Here,

00:18:07.700 give a listen.

00:18:08.620 I just want to pull that thread

00:18:09.820 because it's so important.

00:18:10.880 I voted for Donald Trump.

00:18:11.740 I campaigned for Donald Trump.

00:18:12.960 He's our president.

00:18:14.300 And we're on the cusp of a war.

00:18:15.520 So if Iran, 0.80

00:18:16.560 if there's evidence

00:18:17.440 that Iran paid hitmen 0.57

00:18:18.580 to kill Donald Trump 0.94

00:18:19.360 and is currently doing that, 0.99

00:18:21.000 where is that?

00:18:21.660 What are you even talking?

00:18:22.700 I've never heard that before.

00:18:24.020 Okay.

00:18:24.660 Where is the evidence?

00:18:25.520 Who are these people?

00:18:26.260 Why haven't they been arrested?

00:18:27.300 Why are we not at war with Iran? 1.00

00:18:28.640 That's a great question to ask.

00:18:30.580 How do you know that that's true?

00:18:32.060 We know that it's true

00:18:33.500 because we have been told that

00:18:35.560 by the military

00:18:37.200 and our intelligence community

00:18:38.480 for the last two years.

00:18:40.340 We meaning who?

00:18:41.660 Congress has in the public.

00:18:42.940 I mean,

00:18:43.080 they've had multiple testimonies.

00:18:44.380 I can send you testimony.

00:18:46.260 Do we know the names

00:18:47.140 of the people

00:18:47.600 or where this happened

00:18:48.400 or what they tried to do

00:18:49.300 to kill Trump?

00:18:50.720 We do not.

00:18:51.680 We have not apprehended

00:18:52.940 an Iranian hitman 0.80

00:18:53.980 trying to kill him. 0.91

00:18:55.060 We know that Iran 1.00

00:18:55.920 is trying to do so.

00:18:57.600 In the United States?

00:18:59.280 Yes.

00:18:59.800 And by the way,

00:19:00.520 like Iran... 0.62

00:19:01.580 This just seems like

00:19:02.280 a huge headline

00:19:02.980 and you're acting like

00:19:03.740 everyone knows this.

00:19:04.420 I didn't know that.

00:19:05.500 Iran put out a whole video 0.76

00:19:07.260 about murdering Trump. 0.90

00:19:09.340 Right.

00:19:09.700 But I've never heard evidence

00:19:12.020 that there are hitmen

00:19:12.740 in the United States.

00:19:13.760 I mean, 0.99

00:19:14.020 trying to kill Trump right now, 0.99

00:19:15.540 we should like 0.96

00:19:16.360 have a nationwide

00:19:17.300 dragnet on this 0.85

00:19:18.440 and we should attack Iran 1.00

00:19:19.620 immediately if that's true.

00:19:21.280 Don't you think?

00:19:22.360 No.

00:19:23.840 If they're trying

00:19:24.340 to assassinate our president?

00:19:25.640 They have been for two years.

00:19:27.160 They are our enemies. 0.98

00:19:28.000 Why don't we just nuke Tehran 1.00

00:19:32.020 if they're trying 1.00

00:19:32.420 to murder our president?

00:19:33.540 There's nothing

00:19:34.040 that you could do

00:19:35.000 that would be worse

00:19:35.860 for the United States 0.99

00:19:36.420 than murdering Trump.

00:19:37.860 And I just don't understand

00:19:38.820 why you're not calling

00:19:39.700 for the use of nuclear weapons

00:19:40.860 against the Ayatollah right now.

00:19:42.000 I'm serious.

00:19:42.600 If you really believe

00:19:43.420 they're trying to murder...

00:19:44.040 The use of nuclear weapons.

00:19:45.080 See, that's part of the problem.

00:19:47.080 What do you mean?

00:19:47.860 You don't seem to take

00:19:48.680 the allegations seriously.

00:19:49.680 I do.

00:19:50.200 If you believe

00:19:50.680 they're trying to murder Trump,

00:19:51.860 we need to stop

00:19:52.460 what we're doing

00:19:53.000 and punish them.

00:19:55.360 I mean,

00:19:56.040 insanely bizarre.

00:19:57.040 We went from

00:19:57.880 let's not do anything

00:19:59.100 to, oh, 0.79

00:19:59.840 they're trying to kill Trump. 0.96

00:20:00.900 Well, if that's true, 1.00

00:20:01.900 let's just nuke them. 1.00

00:20:03.600 So, you're right. 0.94

00:20:04.660 The entire two hours

00:20:05.860 Tucker's position was

00:20:07.240 do nothing on Iran,

00:20:08.180 do nothing on Iran,

00:20:08.980 do nothing on Iran,

00:20:10.120 do not support Israel,

00:20:11.440 do not support Israel,

00:20:12.340 do not support Israel.

00:20:13.260 But,

00:20:14.380 if Iran is trying 0.92

00:20:15.800 to murder Trump, 1.00

00:20:16.660 then we should nuke them. 1.00

00:20:19.080 Okay, Ben, 0.99

00:20:19.780 that's absolutely wacky.

00:20:21.740 And, look,

00:20:23.400 it's the sign of someone

00:20:24.320 who's not presenting

00:20:25.000 an argument in good faith.

00:20:26.160 No, we should not

00:20:27.120 be nuking Iran. 1.00

00:20:28.440 That's not a good idea.

00:20:30.340 And, by the way,

00:20:31.840 this is a point

00:20:33.100 where actually facts matter.

00:20:35.080 And part of what was frustrating

00:20:36.160 about this interview

00:20:36.980 is that Tucker

00:20:38.460 just says things

00:20:39.640 that are blatantly false

00:20:41.160 and he doesn't care

00:20:42.220 if they're true or false.

00:20:43.300 So, this is an objective fact.

00:20:45.240 I'm going to read to you

00:20:46.400 from a political article

00:20:47.980 on November 8th, 2024,

00:20:50.640 not very long ago.

00:20:51.700 Here's the title.

00:20:52.300 Iran ordered an operative

00:20:54.160 to assassinate Trump

00:20:55.380 before the election,

00:20:56.940 federal prosecutors say.

00:20:58.360 The alleged would-be assassin

00:20:59.560 is believed to be in Iran

00:21:00.720 and remains at large,

00:21:02.000 prosecutors said.

00:21:03.080 Here's the beginning

00:21:03.640 of the article.

00:21:04.480 The Iranian government

00:21:05.300 ordered an operative

00:21:06.220 to assassinate Donald Trump

00:21:07.600 before the 2024 election,

00:21:09.500 Manhattan federal prosecutors

00:21:10.740 said Friday.

00:21:11.680 The latest in a string

00:21:12.720 of assassination plots

00:21:14.020 directed at the former

00:21:15.260 and future president

00:21:16.140 in recent months.

00:21:18.020 Prosecutors charge

00:21:19.040 Farhad Shaqiri

00:21:20.120 with murder for hire

00:21:21.540 and providing material support

00:21:23.000 to foreign terrorist organization.

00:21:24.820 He is believed to be in Iran

00:21:25.900 and remains at large,

00:21:26.960 prosecutors said.

00:21:28.020 The article continues.

00:21:29.400 Quote,

00:21:29.920 According to a criminal complaint

00:21:31.340 unsealed in Manhattan

00:21:32.560 federal court,

00:21:33.600 Shaqiri said during

00:21:34.760 an FBI interview

00:21:35.940 that in September

00:21:37.560 he was directed

00:21:38.520 by the Islamic Revolutionary

00:21:40.520 Guard Corps of Iran

00:21:41.580 to surveil 0.99

00:21:42.880 and kill Trump, 1.00

00:21:45.280 whom the charging papers 0.99

00:21:46.440 identify as victim for.

00:21:47.900 When Shaqiri told

00:21:49.040 an IRGC official

00:21:50.200 that doing so

00:21:50.960 would prove expensive,

00:21:52.580 the official responded

00:21:53.580 that money's not an issue,

00:21:55.340 which Shaqiri understood

00:21:56.460 to mean that the IRGC

00:21:58.360 had previously spent

00:21:59.860 a significant sum of money

00:22:01.420 on efforts to murder victim for

00:22:03.660 and was willing

00:22:04.540 to continue spending

00:22:05.560 a lot of money

00:22:06.180 in its attempt

00:22:06.760 to procure victims

00:22:07.800 for assassination,

00:22:09.500 according to the charging papers.

00:22:10.920 So there's literally

00:22:11.980 a Department of Justice

00:22:13.140 indictment

00:22:14.040 specifically against

00:22:15.740 an assassin

00:22:16.520 for attempting 1.00

00:22:18.960 to murder Trump.

00:22:20.280 There also, 0.99

00:22:21.000 by the way,

00:22:21.340 was a separate assassin

00:22:22.460 who was arrested

00:22:23.620 for renting an apartment

00:22:24.720 next to John Bolton,

00:22:25.900 an Iranian assassin

00:22:26.740 that was there 0.95

00:22:27.340 to murder Trump's

00:22:28.500 former national security advisor.

00:22:30.040 And as I noted,

00:22:31.120 the Iranians put out 1.00

00:22:32.540 an entire video,

00:22:34.220 a minute and a half video.

00:22:35.560 It's an animated video

00:22:36.840 that shows Donald Trump

00:22:38.640 playing golf

00:22:39.900 and shows the Iranians

00:22:41.740 using a drone attack 0.99

00:22:43.280 to kill him. 1.00

00:22:44.560 All of that 0.99

00:22:45.380 is objectively true

00:22:47.540 and yet Tucker says,

00:22:48.940 I've never heard a word of it.

00:22:50.200 I don't know anything about this

00:22:51.360 and I want to play

00:22:52.580 this video right here.

00:22:54.080 This is in Farsi

00:22:54.760 but I want to play it

00:22:55.960 and then I'm going to tell you

00:22:56.560 what he's saying.

00:22:57.960 So give a listen.

00:23:13.280 So let's just be clear.

00:23:23.820 That's the IRGC commander

00:23:25.380 live on Islamic Republic

00:23:27.440 of Iran State TV

00:23:28.980 and tell people

00:23:30.800 what he just said.

00:23:32.100 Well, his name is

00:23:33.400 Amir Ali Hajizadeh.

00:23:36.160 He's the commander

00:23:36.880 of the IRGC.

00:23:37.920 He's on national television

00:23:39.300 and he says,

00:23:40.440 quote,

00:23:40.940 God willing, 1.00

00:23:42.080 we'll be able to kill 1.00

00:23:43.140 Trump, 1.00

00:23:44.080 Pompeo,

00:23:45.120 General McKenzie

00:23:46.020 and other U.S. commanders.

00:23:48.200 That's on TV.

00:23:49.480 Now, Tucker spent

00:23:50.460 the entire interview

00:23:51.480 denying

00:23:52.260 that Iran 0.91

00:23:53.940 was trying to kill 0.64

00:23:54.840 President Trump.

00:23:55.680 That's objectively false.

00:23:57.420 Facts matter.

00:23:58.220 And bizarrely,

00:23:59.060 he said,

00:23:59.480 well, if that fact was true,

00:24:00.820 he thought we should

00:24:01.560 immediately attack Iran 1.00

00:24:02.600 and we should nuke Iran. 0.98

00:24:03.980 Well, no,

00:24:04.600 that's not the case.

00:24:05.600 We should not nuke Iran. 0.85

00:24:06.960 But we should do

00:24:08.320 what President Trump

00:24:09.040 is doing right now,

00:24:09.980 which is support Israel

00:24:11.080 in taking out Iran's 1.00

00:24:12.920 nuclear capability

00:24:13.860 and their senior

00:24:14.640 military leadership.

00:24:15.940 That actually makes sense.

00:24:17.140 And I'll tell you,

00:24:18.060 the day after our interview aired,

00:24:20.200 President Trump was asked

00:24:21.600 about the conflict

00:24:23.240 between me and Tucker

00:24:24.140 in the Oval Office.

00:24:25.380 And here,

00:24:25.920 give a listen to the back and forth

00:24:27.100 President Trump had

00:24:28.460 in the Oval with a reporter.

00:24:29.860 Have you seen

00:24:30.480 the Tucker Carlson

00:24:31.560 and Senator Ted Cruz interview?

00:24:32.900 It seems like this issue

00:24:33.760 on whether or not

00:24:34.400 the United States

00:24:35.100 should strike

00:24:35.720 is kind of dividing

00:24:36.560 a lot of your supporters.

00:24:39.540 No, my supporters

00:24:40.740 are for me.

00:24:42.000 My supporters

00:24:42.740 are America first.

00:24:44.080 They make America great again.

00:24:45.780 My supporters

00:24:46.440 don't want to see Iran 1.00

00:24:47.460 have a nuclear weapon.

00:24:48.960 Tucker's a nice guy.

00:24:49.880 He called,

00:24:50.400 apologized the other day

00:24:51.720 because he thought

00:24:52.700 he said things

00:24:53.380 were a little bit too strong.

00:24:55.480 And I appreciated that.

00:24:56.900 And Ted Cruz is a nice guy.

00:24:58.580 I mean,

00:24:58.720 he's been with me

00:24:59.420 for a long time.

00:25:00.280 I'd say once the race was over,

00:25:01.760 he's been with me

00:25:02.400 ever since, right?

00:25:03.160 But very simple.

00:25:06.780 If they think

00:25:07.740 that it's okay

00:25:08.480 for Iran

00:25:09.300 to have a nuclear weapon,

00:25:10.620 then they should oppose me.

00:25:12.460 But nobody thinks

00:25:13.220 it's okay.

00:25:14.620 This goes back

00:25:15.620 to the very beginning

00:25:16.540 and why I think

00:25:18.260 Tucker was so hostile.

00:25:20.480 He wanted a distraction

00:25:21.580 from the fact

00:25:22.240 that he had messed up

00:25:23.280 with Trump.

00:25:23.840 He had to call Trump

00:25:24.740 and apologize.

00:25:26.160 And he thought,

00:25:26.680 all right,

00:25:26.920 if I just go after Ted Cruz,

00:25:28.640 maybe that'll fix

00:25:29.360 all my problems.

00:25:30.260 I don't think it worked.

00:25:31.480 Well, and look,

00:25:32.460 the reason that Tucker

00:25:33.760 had to apologize to Trump

00:25:35.080 is that he had been

00:25:35.840 publicly blasting Trump.

00:25:37.360 He said Trump was

00:25:38.320 complicit in Israel's war.

00:25:40.860 And he said,

00:25:41.660 he said what Trump was doing

00:25:42.840 was not America first.

00:25:44.340 And President Trump

00:25:45.260 tweeted out and said,

00:25:46.560 look, I'm the one

00:25:47.580 who created America first

00:25:48.860 and I decide what it is.

00:25:50.440 And allowing Iran 1.00

00:25:51.940 to have a nuclear weapon,

00:25:52.940 that is not America first.

00:25:54.580 And that's exactly

00:25:55.260 what President Trump said

00:25:56.560 in the Oval.

00:25:58.220 You know what's amazing?

00:25:59.600 We've laid out the facts

00:26:01.820 that is undisputed.

00:26:03.040 By the way,

00:26:03.440 out of 100 senators,

00:26:04.780 all 100 agree

00:26:06.080 that Iran is trying 0.99

00:26:07.020 to murder President Trump. 0.98

00:26:08.340 Even the looniest, 0.99

00:26:09.940 even Bernie Sanders,

00:26:10.960 even Elizabeth Warren

00:26:11.820 doesn't dispute

00:26:12.720 that Iran is trying 0.99

00:26:13.660 to murder Trump

00:26:14.240 because it's an objective fact. 0.92

00:26:15.780 I've laid them out,

00:26:17.060 those facts out repeatedly.

00:26:18.700 You know,

00:26:18.920 Tucker has not responded

00:26:19.780 once to that.

00:26:20.580 He has not said,

00:26:21.360 oh, I was wrong on that.

00:26:22.920 He hasn't said,

00:26:23.420 oh, well, gosh,

00:26:24.220 I said if that was the case, 0.91

00:26:25.300 we should attack Iran 1.00

00:26:26.040 immediately and nuke them, 0.99

00:26:27.300 which, by the way, 0.98

00:26:27.920 to be clear,

00:26:28.340 we should not.

00:26:29.280 At the end of the day,

00:26:30.800 facts matter.

00:26:32.080 And the good news is

00:26:33.820 the commander-in-chief's job

00:26:35.480 is to be clear-eyed

00:26:36.900 and do what is necessary

00:26:38.220 to keep America safe.

00:26:39.800 President Trump

00:26:40.600 is doing that.

00:26:42.020 I spoke to him

00:26:42.780 just a few days ago

00:26:43.660 and I said,

00:26:44.080 Mr. President,

00:26:44.720 thank you.

00:26:45.360 Thank you for standing

00:26:46.180 with Israel.

00:26:46.820 Thank you for standing

00:26:47.520 up for America.

00:26:48.660 Thank you for defending

00:26:49.380 our servicemen and women.

00:26:50.600 You notice Iran 0.70

00:26:51.780 has not attacked

00:26:52.520 our servicemen and women

00:26:53.420 because the president

00:26:54.100 has made clear

00:26:54.720 the consequences

00:26:55.520 would be massive

00:26:57.220 for doing so.

00:26:58.340 And President Trump

00:26:59.360 right now

00:26:59.940 is being strong

00:27:01.520 and resolute

00:27:02.400 and I'm proud

00:27:03.520 to stand with the president

00:27:04.560 that he is doing

00:27:05.800 exactly the right thing.

00:27:07.400 He is embodying

00:27:08.840 America first 0.69

00:27:09.540 and he's keeping

00:27:10.040 this country safe.

00:27:10.780 And there's one big

00:27:12.860 definition

00:27:14.100 that has been

00:27:15.760 coming up

00:27:16.660 and I've seen it a lot

00:27:18.000 and I've been asked about

00:27:19.080 especially since this interview

00:27:20.860 and it's the argument

00:27:22.300 or the word

00:27:23.500 isolationist

00:27:24.780 or isolationism.

00:27:26.280 What does that mean?

00:27:28.020 And then your thoughts

00:27:29.620 on it, Senator,

00:27:30.460 so people understand it

00:27:31.540 but also what is your

00:27:32.820 foreign policy

00:27:34.000 so people understand

00:27:34.840 you're not an isolationist

00:27:36.720 and you're not

00:27:37.460 one of those

00:27:38.080 that's like,

00:27:38.580 hey, let's go to war 0.87

00:27:39.240 everywhere we can either.

00:27:40.120 Yeah, that's exactly right

00:27:41.700 and this is something

00:27:42.720 we talked about

00:27:43.540 quite a bit

00:27:44.560 in the interview

00:27:46.660 with Tucker Carlson

00:27:47.640 and when he wasn't

00:27:49.540 screaming at me

00:27:50.320 and it wasn't

00:27:50.920 a mud mess 0.99

00:27:52.580 we actually laid out

00:27:54.780 some really important

00:27:55.940 basic philosophy

00:27:56.900 on foreign policy.

00:27:58.280 Look, historically

00:27:59.660 there have been

00:28:00.360 two polls

00:28:01.300 in Republican foreign policy.

00:28:03.560 On the one side

00:28:04.540 you've had

00:28:04.920 the interventionists

00:28:05.760 they've been people

00:28:06.380 like John McCain

00:28:07.360 people like Lindsey Graham

00:28:08.800 who are eager

00:28:10.840 to use

00:28:11.580 U.S. military force

00:28:12.880 who are frequently

00:28:13.620 advocating

00:28:14.380 for a robust

00:28:16.760 use of military force.

00:28:20.020 On the other poll

00:28:21.100 you have

00:28:22.720 the isolationist

00:28:23.720 and the most notable

00:28:24.620 of those

00:28:25.260 are Ron Paul

00:28:26.620 and Rand Paul

00:28:27.600 and Tucker Carlson

00:28:29.020 I think is now

00:28:29.840 emphatically

00:28:30.460 in that category

00:28:31.320 as well.

00:28:32.580 And their view

00:28:33.480 is that America

00:28:34.900 should withdraw

00:28:35.600 from the world

00:28:36.220 that we have

00:28:37.260 two giant oceans

00:28:38.200 on both sides

00:28:39.120 and we should not

00:28:40.240 employ the military

00:28:41.080 as Tucker said

00:28:42.160 in an earlier clip

00:28:43.180 we played

00:28:43.660 we should never

00:28:45.060 kill anybody

00:28:45.680 which means 1.00

00:28:46.360 our military

00:28:46.920 should never engage

00:28:48.060 with our enemies.

00:28:49.640 I've always considered

00:28:50.820 and most people

00:28:51.840 look at that

00:28:52.380 and say

00:28:52.680 okay you gotta be

00:28:53.300 one or the other

00:28:53.900 I've always thought

00:28:55.560 both views were wrong

00:28:56.820 I disagree with both

00:28:58.400 I disagree with

00:28:59.240 interventionists

00:28:59.900 I disagree with

00:29:01.260 isolationists

00:29:02.060 I consider myself

00:29:03.680 a third point

00:29:05.160 on the triangle

00:29:05.700 I consider myself

00:29:06.760 a non-interventionist

00:29:09.120 hawk

00:29:10.400 now what does that mean

00:29:11.200 it means

00:29:11.780 that I am

00:29:12.620 exceptionally reluctant

00:29:13.920 to use

00:29:14.780 U.S. military force

00:29:16.080 we should have

00:29:17.320 a very high threshold

00:29:18.480 for sending our sons

00:29:19.400 and daughters

00:29:19.800 into harm's way

00:29:20.540 we should not

00:29:21.260 engage in

00:29:22.300 unnecessary wars

00:29:23.400 but

00:29:24.000 and this is a very

00:29:24.720 important but

00:29:25.400 the touchstone

00:29:27.300 for all foreign policy

00:29:28.760 and military action

00:29:30.580 should be

00:29:31.800 the vital

00:29:32.560 national security

00:29:33.660 interest

00:29:34.060 of the United States

00:29:35.080 so

00:29:35.840 I oppose

00:29:37.460 the Iraq war

00:29:38.340 the Iraq war

00:29:39.280 under George W. Bush

00:29:40.460 I think was a mistake

00:29:41.580 it ended up

00:29:42.820 making America

00:29:43.540 less safe

00:29:44.220 we toppled

00:29:44.980 a dictator

00:29:45.520 Saddam Hussein

00:29:46.460 who was killing 0.98

00:29:47.400 radical Islamic terrorists

00:29:48.640 and what happened 0.95

00:29:49.320 the radical Islamic terrorists 0.93

00:29:50.840 took over 0.99

00:29:51.320 and they began 0.98

00:29:51.760 killing Americans 0.99

00:29:52.540 that was bad 0.97

00:29:54.140 I also oppose

00:29:55.620 what happened

00:29:56.060 in Libya

00:29:56.480 Qaddafi

00:29:57.400 was another dictator 0.67

00:29:58.960 he was killing 1.00

00:29:59.980 radical Islamic terrorists 0.99

00:30:01.220 we toppled 0.98

00:30:02.000 Qaddafi 0.99

00:30:02.900 and the radical Islamic terrorists 1.00

00:30:04.420 took over 0.99

00:30:04.860 and began 1.00

00:30:05.180 killing Americans 1.00

00:30:05.840 that was bad 1.00

00:30:06.860 the touchstone

00:30:08.420 should be

00:30:09.520 does this make America

00:30:10.920 more safe

00:30:11.580 does this protect

00:30:12.360 Americans

00:30:13.040 and the reason

00:30:15.120 I believe

00:30:16.020 that President Trump

00:30:17.040 is exactly right

00:30:18.140 to support

00:30:18.740 Israel

00:30:19.620 in stopping

00:30:20.780 Iran's nuclear weapons

00:30:22.200 capability

00:30:22.740 is because

00:30:24.100 Iran with a nuclear 0.94

00:30:25.300 weapon poses

00:30:26.140 a clear threat

00:30:27.340 to the safety

00:30:28.540 and security

00:30:29.160 of America

00:30:29.780 and a clear threat

00:30:30.900 of murdering

00:30:31.640 a vast number

00:30:33.040 of Americans

00:30:33.560 that's why

00:30:34.340 Israel is acting 1.00

00:30:35.260 that's why

00:30:35.840 President Trump

00:30:37.060 is acting

00:30:37.540 and I'll point out

00:30:38.560 Ben

00:30:38.780 when I say

00:30:40.100 non-interventionist talk

00:30:41.500 that's a fancy way

00:30:43.060 of saying

00:30:43.600 what President Reagan

00:30:44.800 referred to

00:30:45.560 as peace

00:30:46.400 through strength

00:30:47.060 be strong enough

00:30:48.140 that your enemies

00:30:49.020 don't want to mess with you

00:30:50.080 if you want to avoid war

00:30:51.160 be strong

00:30:52.160 when you're weak

00:30:53.000 when you're isolationist

00:30:54.220 you end up with more war

00:30:55.820 because your enemies

00:30:56.700 are aggressive

00:30:57.320 because they know

00:30:58.080 you're weak

00:30:58.600 it is also

00:30:59.620 I believe

00:31:00.620 exactly what

00:31:01.960 President Trump's

00:31:02.760 foreign policy is

00:31:03.620 it's what he has done

00:31:04.920 consistently

00:31:06.040 and I agree

00:31:07.680 with President Trump's

00:31:08.640 foreign policy

00:31:09.260 and I will say

00:31:10.140 that that's true

00:31:11.100 on Iran

00:31:11.560 that's true

00:31:12.000 on Israel

00:31:12.380 but it's also true

00:31:13.160 on Russia

00:31:13.560 and I want you to listen

00:31:14.640 to a back and forth

00:31:16.220 that Tucker

00:31:17.300 and I had on Russia

00:31:18.280 because that's another area

00:31:19.980 where clarity

00:31:21.020 is valuable

00:31:21.780 and here

00:31:22.500 give a listen

00:31:23.020 I don't think

00:31:23.860 that Putin

00:31:24.500 loves us

00:31:25.360 I'm distressed

00:31:27.120 by the moral condition

00:31:28.000 of most leaders

00:31:28.680 around the world

00:31:29.340 most of them 0.98

00:31:29.900 they all kill people 0.91

00:31:30.760 I'm against that 0.96

00:31:31.600 I'm just saying

00:31:32.460 I wish the focus here

00:31:34.440 was more on the United States

00:31:35.440 Can I say something

00:31:35.780 I actually don't agree

00:31:36.980 with that statement

00:31:37.580 they all kill people 0.97

00:31:38.460 there's a moral relativism

00:31:39.820 so I don't think

00:31:40.840 Donald Trump is a murderer

00:31:41.640 he doesn't kill people 1.00

00:31:42.580 we don't have concentration 0.99

00:31:43.420 Donald Trump a murderer

00:31:44.340 you just said 1.00

00:31:45.240 world leaders 0.95

00:31:45.820 all kill people 0.98

00:31:46.720 and there's a moral relativism 0.95

00:31:49.120 I'm hardly a moral relativist

00:31:51.020 but you are

00:31:51.600 you just

00:31:52.200 that statement

00:31:53.080 was the essence

00:31:53.820 of an anti-semite

00:31:54.820 an isolationist

00:31:55.760 a moral relativist

00:31:56.880 I'm okay

00:31:57.840 no

00:31:58.400 I'm not

00:31:58.880 did you just say

00:32:00.000 world leaders 0.96

00:32:00.780 all kill people 0.99

00:32:01.300 I'm saying 1.00

00:32:01.520 I'm against killing people

00:32:03.000 in general

00:32:03.600 and hyperventilating

00:32:05.640 about how Putin

00:32:06.460 was in the KGB

00:32:07.240 or whatever

00:32:07.700 I just want to serve

00:32:08.660 American interests

00:32:09.220 and pushing into China

00:32:10.220 is not in our interest

00:32:10.940 and you helped do it

00:32:12.240 and you haven't apologized

00:32:13.000 and by the way

00:32:14.660 you're the cheerleader 0.95

00:32:15.480 I helped drive him

00:32:16.460 into China

00:32:16.940 it's a complete lie

00:32:18.420 you funded the war

00:32:19.200 against him

00:32:19.740 no I authored

00:32:21.120 the legislation

00:32:21.800 that shut down

00:32:22.460 Nord Stream 2

00:32:23.060 that prevented the war

00:32:24.100 and if Trump

00:32:25.180 had still been

00:32:25.640 in the White House

00:32:26.180 we would have had the war 0.91

00:32:27.320 and look

00:32:28.180 the comment you made

00:32:29.280 the reason things

00:32:30.220 like moral relativism

00:32:31.120 are so dangerous

00:32:31.700 oh everyone kills people

00:32:32.740 no there is a difference 0.94

00:32:34.520 the United States

00:32:35.260 we don't have

00:32:36.500 concentration camps

00:32:37.640 we don't torture 0.85

00:32:38.860 and murder people 0.83

00:32:39.880 you look at China 0.99

00:32:40.780 where they've got

00:32:41.440 a million prisoners

00:32:42.720 in concentration camps

00:32:43.840 you look at Putin

00:32:44.620 where he's got

00:32:45.240 prisoners in Siberia

00:32:46.480 he tortures

00:32:47.820 and murders 0.98

00:32:48.400 his political opponents 0.99

00:32:49.420 Donald Trump

00:32:49.940 doesn't do that

00:32:50.520 America doesn't do that 1.00

00:32:51.320 and by the way

00:32:51.920 most other countries

00:32:53.500 don't do that

00:32:54.180 I see the game

00:32:55.140 it's like

00:32:55.640 I'm distressed

00:32:56.900 I'm distressed

00:32:58.040 no I'm responding

00:32:58.740 with facts

00:32:59.260 you don't like the facts

00:33:00.500 I don't even know

00:33:01.920 what facts you're talking about

00:33:02.960 I'm not saying

00:33:03.860 that Trump puts people

00:33:04.600 in concentration camps

00:33:05.340 I campaigned for Trump

00:33:06.380 I love Trump

00:33:06.900 so did I

00:33:07.400 okay

00:33:07.700 so this has nothing

00:33:08.760 to do with Trump

00:33:09.180 I'm merely saying

00:33:10.140 when you said

00:33:10.560 every world leader

00:33:11.280 kills people 0.96

00:33:11.920 it puts them all

00:33:12.980 emphasis on what's

00:33:13.980 happening inside the country

00:33:15.200 that's it

00:33:15.840 is there a moral

00:33:16.900 difference between

00:33:17.620 America and our enemies 0.96

00:33:18.780 is there a moral

00:33:19.440 difference between

00:33:19.860 America

00:33:20.160 and what is it

00:33:21.400 articulated

00:33:22.040 it's valuable

00:33:22.960 to say why

00:33:24.180 wow

00:33:24.760 and I think

00:33:25.740 that's one of the

00:33:26.340 biggest differences

00:33:27.240 between you

00:33:27.920 and Tucker Carlson

00:33:28.720 right there

00:33:29.360 in that conversation

00:33:30.300 yeah look

00:33:31.000 he would not say

00:33:32.060 that Putin

00:33:32.520 was a bad guy

00:33:33.520 he would not say

00:33:34.740 that President Trump

00:33:36.380 was right to take out

00:33:37.280 General Soleimani

00:33:38.040 he would not say

00:33:38.900 that President Trump

00:33:40.060 was right to take out

00:33:41.260 al-Baghdadi

00:33:41.880 the head of ISIS

00:33:42.760 he would not say

00:33:43.520 that President Trump

00:33:44.240 was right to take out

00:33:45.100 ISIS's caliphate

00:33:46.140 and here I want you

00:33:46.940 to listen to this

00:33:47.920 additional back and forth

00:33:49.480 we had on Russia

00:33:50.880 I don't understand

00:33:52.680 for some reason

00:33:53.840 you are really invested

00:33:56.600 in defending Russia

00:33:57.380 and I don't get that

00:33:58.240 I'm not attacking you

00:33:59.360 with that

00:33:59.580 I'm genuinely

00:34:00.220 like I don't get

00:34:01.100 why you're so passionate

00:34:02.780 about defending Russia

00:34:03.820 I mean wow

00:34:05.800 Senator the laughing

00:34:06.900 at the end by him

00:34:08.340 just because you were

00:34:09.800 killing him with the facts

00:34:11.840 really sums up 0.81

00:34:13.260 the entire two hour

00:34:14.200 interview in my opinion

00:34:15.160 it was an odd thing

00:34:16.840 because he would say

00:34:17.560 things that were

00:34:18.180 just wildly untrue

00:34:19.340 he'd said every world

00:34:20.200 leader kills people

00:34:21.020 and no it is not 0.99

00:34:23.180 equivalent Donald Trump

00:34:24.140 is not equivalent

00:34:24.880 to Vladimir Putin

00:34:25.660 and that's frankly

00:34:27.260 something that leftists

00:34:28.280 say and unfortunately

00:34:29.600 isolationists on the right

00:34:30.980 say it as well

00:34:31.660 and it's simply not true

00:34:33.200 you know we were

00:34:33.700 having this interview

00:34:34.700 in my office

00:34:36.140 and the dominant feature

00:34:37.900 in my office

00:34:38.440 is a gigantic painting

00:34:40.620 of Ronald Reagan

00:34:41.880 in front of the

00:34:42.380 Brandenburg Gate

00:34:43.080 and above him

00:34:44.020 in German

00:34:44.820 are the words

00:34:46.040 tear down this wall

00:34:47.120 in the style

00:34:47.860 of the graffiti

00:34:48.440 I think those are

00:34:49.600 the most important words

00:34:50.640 uttered in modern times

00:34:51.820 and they call for the

00:34:53.280 importance of

00:34:53.920 American leadership

00:34:54.980 now as I make clear

00:34:56.040 this interview

00:34:56.520 I don't want us

00:34:57.360 to be at war with Russia

00:34:58.500 we should not be

00:34:59.300 at war with Russia

00:35:00.060 but it doesn't mean

00:35:01.320 we need to be cheerleaders

00:35:02.500 for Russia

00:35:03.340 that we need to be

00:35:04.620 cutting essentially

00:35:05.640 infomercials for

00:35:06.620 Russian grocery stores

00:35:07.780 we ought to speak

00:35:09.140 the truth

00:35:09.700 and the bully pulpit

00:35:10.520 of the presidency

00:35:11.160 is incredibly powerful

00:35:12.260 and I gotta say again

00:35:13.600 President Trump

00:35:14.180 is doing that beautifully

00:35:15.120 the entire point

00:35:16.200 of this interview

00:35:16.840 was for me to make

00:35:17.820 absolutely clear

00:35:18.880 that on Israel

00:35:19.740 on Iran

00:35:20.700 President Trump

00:35:21.700 is right

00:35:22.140 and Tucker Carlson

00:35:23.420 is wrong

00:35:23.900 and we stand with Israel

00:35:25.420 and we will keep

00:35:26.440 the American people

00:35:27.700 safe

00:35:28.440 don't forget

00:35:29.680 we do this show

00:35:30.700 Monday, Wednesday

00:35:31.440 and Friday

00:35:32.280 and make sure

00:35:33.380 you hit that

00:35:33.660 subscribe or auto

00:35:34.660 download button

00:35:35.520 wherever you get

00:35:36.400 your podcast

00:35:37.000 so you do not

00:35:37.580 miss an episode

00:35:38.320 and also

00:35:39.260 tomorrow

00:35:39.840 on Saturday

00:35:40.520 we'll have the

00:35:41.140 week in review

00:35:42.160 some of the top

00:35:42.840 things we talked

00:35:43.400 about this past

00:35:44.140 week that you

00:35:44.660 may have missed

00:35:45.220 so make sure

00:35:45.760 you listen to that

00:35:46.380 as well

00:35:46.820 and the Senate

00:35:47.600 and I will see

00:35:48.000 you back here

00:35:48.460 Saturday morning

00:35:49.220 this is an

00:35:50.940 iHeart Podcast

00:35:51.860 Guaranteed Human 0.83

00:35:53.860 meeting

00:35:54.120 you

00:35:56.580 you

00:35:57.620 you

Verdict with Ted Cruz - June 20, 2025

Cruz vs Tucker Debate： On Israel & Iran- Trump is Right, Tucker is Wrong

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