Verdict with Ted Cruz - July 28, 2025


Dems' Poll Numbers PLUMMET, plus How to Save $1TRILL in Fed Spending & Why We Need to Fix the Tax Laws to Treat Poker Pros Fairly


Episode Stats


Length

32 minutes

Words per minute

180.2105

Word count

5,873

Sentence count

432

Harmful content

Misogyny

3

sentences flagged

Toxicity

4

sentences flagged

Hate speech

5

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) sits down with Ben Ferguson (D-NJ) to discuss the Democratic Party s unpopularity with voters, the Federal Reserve's plan to stop paying interest on bank reserves, and why you should make the switch to a cell phone company that supports conservative causes.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.
00:00:05.340 Welcome. It is Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you as always.
00:00:09.860 And Senator, it's nice to be with you as we've got a couple of big things to chat about today,
00:00:15.400 including the Democrats getting the lowest rating from voters in 35 years.
00:00:23.260 Well, that's right. The Wall Street Journal just did a poll and found that the Democrats
00:00:26.520 approval rating has plummeted. It is at the lowest level in 35 years. It turns out being angry,
00:00:32.740 filled with rage, and being a party that stands for nothing but hating Donald Trump
00:00:36.700 is not actually a popular platform. We're going to break that down and talk about what that means
00:00:41.840 for elections coming up in 26 and going forward. Secondly, we're going to talk about a proposal
00:00:47.920 that I've been championing to cut spending and to cut spending dramatically. And that is for the
00:00:54.980 Federal Reserve to stop paying interest on bank reserves. This is a proposal that could save
00:01:00.620 over a trillion dollars over 10 years. I've made this case directly to the president of the Oval
00:01:06.040 Office. I've introduced legislation to make this happen. We're going to talk about exactly what it
00:01:10.440 would mean and why it makes a difference. And finally, we're going to talk about an element of
00:01:15.320 the one big beautiful bill that was an unintended mistake, which is the one big beautiful bill
00:01:21.820 changed how gambling losses are counted in taxes. And what it did for people like professional
00:01:30.120 poker players is it ended up putting in place a rule that is wildly unfair, that punishes them,
00:01:36.460 that taxes them on income they didn't earn. And so I've joined with some Democrats in terms of
00:01:41.380 trying to fix this. I hope we can fix it because we ought to have a tax system. That's fair. We're
00:01:45.560 going to explain that issue to you also. Yeah, it's also really interesting because it goes back to
00:01:50.280 part of what the president did with no tax on tips. And he's like looking out for little guys and their
00:01:55.760 jobs. It matters. We're going to break that down. It'll be very interesting. I want to tell you real
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00:03:42.820 Make the switch today and make a difference with every call you make. All right. So let's go to
00:03:47.140 the Democrats in disarray. I have a theory, Senator, and I want to run it by you. I think the reason why
00:03:53.320 Democrats have the lowest rating from voters in 35 years is because they didn't police their own party
00:03:59.160 and get rid of the most extreme members who've now taken over the microphone. The AOCs, the Alamo
00:04:05.200 Omars, the list goes on and on. The guy running for mayor in New York City, the radical Marxist,
00:04:11.400 socialists, and communists have taken over the microphone. And that's why I think the American
00:04:15.300 people are terrified of them right now. Yeah. It's not just they've taken over the microphone.
00:04:20.480 They've taken over the party. Yeah. There is nobody in the party. Name one prominent Democrat
00:04:26.900 who has stood up to comrade Mondami. You literally have a communist who is the Democrat
00:04:32.700 party nominee to be mayor of New York other than John Fetterman. And I think John Fetterman is
00:04:37.160 the exception that proves the rule. Other than John Fetterman, I do not know a single one of my
00:04:42.540 colleagues in the Senate who has said a word of criticism that, gosh, maybe a guy calling for the
00:04:47.700 abolition of private property, maybe a guy that is openly calling for a communist government,
00:04:53.680 is not the best face of the Democrat party. And yet nobody disagrees. You look at when Chris
00:05:00.840 Van Hollen flies down to El Salvador and has margaritas with an MS-13 gang member illegal
00:05:08.180 immigrant who's right now being prosecuted for human trafficking. Not one single Democrat,
00:05:15.040 again, except for John Fetterman, spoke out against it. And so it's not just that the crazies
00:05:20.640 have been given the microphone. The crazies have been given the agenda. And here's what the Wall 0.79
00:05:25.840 Street Journal reported. The Democrat party's image has eroded to its lowest point in more than
00:05:30.780 three decades, according to a new Wall Street Journal poll, with voters seeing Republicans as
00:05:35.220 better at handling most issues that decide elections. The new survey finds that 63 percent of voters
00:05:42.520 hold an unfavorable view of the Democratic party. The highest share in journal polls dating to 1990
00:05:50.520 and 30 percentage points higher than the 33 percent who hold a favorable view. So the Democrats
00:05:57.620 polling is 33 percent favorable, 63 percent unfavorable. And journal goes on to say that is a far weaker
00:06:06.240 assessment than voters give to either President Trump or the Republican Party, who are viewed more
00:06:11.540 favorably than favorably by seven points and 11 points, respectively. So the Democrats are minus 30.
00:06:20.340 President Trump is plus seven and the Republican Party is plus 11. That is a huge difference. And
00:06:27.780 and what percent of voters do you think view the Democrats very favorably?
00:06:32.940 I'm going to guess it's probably not a very high number based on the overall polling data.
00:06:37.640 Eight percent. Yeah, that's not good. That's not good. Just so everybody knows in politics,
00:06:43.320 that's bad. And by the way, by comparison, 19 percent of Americans view Republicans very favorably.
00:06:50.760 So there's more intensity. People are very happy. And the Democrats, nobody except the communists are
00:06:59.300 excited about the Democrats. That is a problem going into an election.
00:07:03.260 Yeah, it's a huge problem for them. And then you go forward with Democrats. They've got everybody on
00:07:09.520 their team. I'm referring to the media. I also think some of this comes down to the fact that
00:07:14.020 there's so many Americans are just going around the mainstream media now and will never go back.
00:07:18.580 You look at the canceling, for example, of one of the late night shows. We talked about that last
00:07:22.540 week, Stephen Colbert. Why? I think a lot of people are just like, we're done with you when you alienate
00:07:27.140 half the country and mock us. And there's so many lies that have happened over the last five, six,
00:07:33.340 seven years that were egregious. The Russian hoax is a great example. I think that this is part of 1.00
00:07:39.360 the reason why the Democratic Party is failing right now is because they don't have people covering for
00:07:44.100 their propaganda. Well, and they're embracing, you know, it's amazing when a party decides let's pick
00:07:50.860 five issues and let's take the wrong side of 80-20 issues or 90-10 issues. It turns out that's really
00:07:57.140 bad politics. When you say as a party, hey, let's be for open borders and Venezuelan gang members and 1.00
00:08:04.160 releasing criminals and rapists and child molesters, that is a really, really unpopular position. It turns
00:08:11.360 out when you say, hey, let's be for abolishing the police and attacking ICE and fighting against law
00:08:17.660 enforcement, that is a really, really unpopular position. It turns out when you cheer on pro-Hamas 0.97
00:08:23.320 protesters who are cheering on we love Hamas, that is a really, really unpopular position. It turns out
00:08:31.120 when you advocate for boys competing in girls' sports and for doing surgeries that sterilize and
00:08:38.580 mutilate little boys and girls, that is a really, really unpopular position. And the Democrat Party as a
00:08:44.700 whole has said, let's look at all those issues. Let's take the wrong side of 80-20 or even 90-10
00:08:50.640 issues and let's see how that works out. And the way it works out is you get the most unpopular
00:08:55.860 Democrat Party in the last 35 years. What is your biggest concern? And I always say there's a
00:09:01.840 reaction to every action, right? So it's low right now. What is the worry that, do we get overconfident?
00:09:09.600 Do we not continue to stay together as a party? Because look, we are notorious, I'm talking about
00:09:14.540 conservatives, of screwing it up when we have these types of leads. We have the House, we have the 0.86
00:09:19.180 Senate. We actually have a chance, I think, to even have some gains in the midterms. And this is a
00:09:24.180 midterm, I want to be clear, that actually is more favorable towards Democrats in the districts and
00:09:29.400 the Senate seats that are open. You look at it, we have a real opportunity here to solidify our base and
00:09:36.000 get even more done with the president. What is your worry about that, though?
00:09:39.880 So my concern is twofold. My concern is political and my concern is policy.
00:09:44.180 On the political side, when one party is out of power, that can be a dangerous dynamic because
00:09:50.240 even though the Democrat Party is very unpopular, generally speaking, their hardcore partisans
00:09:56.600 are pissed. They are filled with rage. They hate Donald Trump. That means their hardcore partisans
00:10:03.820 will crawl over broken glass. These are the nuts that are having riots in the streets of L.A. saying
00:10:09.220 we want more criminal illegal aliens in our country. That energy is dangerous. Look, right now the 1.00
00:10:15.620 Democrats are outraising Republicans because their side is really energized. They hate Trump. And if you
00:10:21.640 send out an email on the Democrat side, Donald Trump is the devil, turns out people give a lot of 0.98
00:10:26.440 money because if you're a crazy left winger, that energizes you. I worry about the enthusiasm gap that 0.96
00:10:33.580 on the right. Look, Republicans, by and large, are feeling pretty good. We're winning massive
00:10:38.640 victories. We talked about last week's podcast. We went through all of the major victories in the
00:10:44.660 first six months of President Trump's term. That's fantastic. But the danger from a political
00:10:49.700 perspective is that our guys get complacent. OK, we're winning. Everything's taken care of. It's not
00:10:55.220 urgent anymore. And that plays out both in terms of fundraising, that people just give less money
00:11:01.860 to candidates this this cycle around. But it also can manifest in turnout. If the crazies on the left
00:11:08.440 are much more likely to show up in a midterm and our guys are complacent and feel like everything's
00:11:13.520 fine, that can yield a really bad election. Secondly, the policy piece that I worry about.
00:11:20.020 We've talked a lot on this podcast about the battle within the Trump administration on tariffs,
00:11:24.420 how there is one camp within the Trump administration that wants to use tariffs as leverage
00:11:30.400 to lower the tariffs of our trading partners. And Scott Besant, the Treasury Secretary, is in that
00:11:36.740 camp. Elon Musk, when he was part of the White House, he was very much in that camp. And I'm
00:11:41.620 enthusiastically in that camp. I very much agree with what the president has been doing,
00:11:46.000 using tariffs, but using them as a means to an end to lower the tariffs and remove non-tariff
00:11:52.800 barriers so that we can trade more and export more with our trading partners. The problem,
00:11:58.120 and we've talked about this a lot in the pod as well, there is a contingent in this administration
00:12:03.640 that doesn't view tariffs as a means to an end, that rather views tariffs as an objective, as a good
00:12:11.560 economic outcome that we have high tariffs forever. And if that contingent prevails, I worry next year
00:12:20.900 that if we have really high tariffs that the U.S. has put in place, and if our trading partners have
00:12:25.480 really high tariffs, retaliatory tariffs, that we could end up going into a recession, the economy
00:12:31.920 could turn downhill. And if that happens, that could lead to a really rough election. And so I'm going to
00:12:38.760 continue to engage closely and regularly with the president to say, keep using them as leverage,
00:12:42.900 keep lowering the tariffs of our trading partners. That will produce good economic results,
00:12:47.280 but it's not clear which side of that battle is going to prevail day by day on the policy battle.
00:12:52.820 Yeah, great point there. One of the policies that got this president elected was the issue of fiscal
00:12:59.280 responsibility. Doge was a huge part of that. And there is something that is happening in D.C.,
00:13:05.200 and it deals with eliminating Federal Reserve interest payments on reserves. This could sound
00:13:11.840 certainly wonky and like, wait, what? Or, hey, it's over my head. This is actually something that is
00:13:19.320 about reform. It is within the Federal Reserve, and it's something that I think is very clear,
00:13:24.820 long overdue, and can have a major impact for all Americans. Dive into how this could work.
00:13:30.160 Yeah, so this is an idea that I went to the White House, went to the Oval Office, and I pitched to
00:13:35.780 President Trump in the middle of the one big, beautiful bill. And in terms of spending cuts,
00:13:41.640 I gave the president a total of $3 trillion of spending cuts that we could have included in the
00:13:46.060 bill, and that I think we should have included in the bill. Ultimately, my views did not prevail,
00:13:51.080 and we didn't do it on this first reconciliation bill. I hope we come back and do it on a later
00:13:56.200 reconciliation bill, and we can have two more reconciliation bills. This idea is one of the
00:14:02.200 biggest ticket items, because if we do what I'm suggesting, we could save over $1 trillion over
00:14:10.640 the next 10 years. That is a big, big number. When we were doing reconciliation, we were pulling our
00:14:16.440 hair out to save $50 billion or $100 billion. $1 trillion is a lot of money. Now, what does this
00:14:23.700 issue mean? So, banks, big banks, they store reserves, and they deposit reserves with the
00:14:31.520 Federal Reserve. Now, the Federal Reserve was created in 1913, and from 1913 until 2007, how did it work?
00:14:41.440 Banks would keep reserves with the Fed, and they would get paid zero, nothing for the reserves. There
00:14:48.260 was a requirement. It was typically about 10%. So, if you're a big bank, let's say you've got $100
00:14:53.580 billion in deposits. You were required to keep $10 billion with the Fed. You didn't get paid any
00:15:00.460 interest on it. You just had to keep that there, because it's what's called fractional banking,
00:15:04.900 which is you had $100 billion of deposits. $90 billion of it, you'd loan out. You'd loan out
00:15:10.400 to individuals. You'd loan it out for home mortgages. You'd loan it out for car loans. You'd loan it out to
00:15:14.440 small businesses. So, of the $100 billion in deposits, you didn't have $90 billion of it, but you were
00:15:19.320 required to keep typically about 10%. Just keep it with the Fed, so that if Ben Ferguson comes in
00:15:25.120 and says, hey, I want to withdraw $1,000 because, you know, I want to go buy a nice present for my
00:15:31.980 wife, they had to have the $1,000 to give you. So, that's the way the system worked for almost 100 0.99
00:15:38.160 years. Then, starting in 2008, when you had the great financial crisis, Congress changed the law,
00:15:46.960 and the Fed began paying interest on reserves. So, the reserves that the banks kept with the Fed,
00:15:53.220 they began paying interest. Now, at the time, the interest rate was incredibly low. And so, 2008,
00:16:00.400 you know, you had financial chaos everywhere. Do you know how much the Fed paid in interest on
00:16:05.880 reserves in the entirety of 2008? How much? About $1 billion. So, in big picture budgetary terms,
00:16:14.340 a very small amount. It was almost nominal, but it was the first year they began paying interest on
00:16:19.500 reserves. Since 2008, they've been paying interest on reserves going forward. And it was small most of
00:16:27.340 the time until the last two years of Joe Biden. And the last two years of Joe Biden, the interest rate
00:16:34.020 went up and up and up. And for both 2023 and 2024, the Fed paid over $100 billion in interest on
00:16:46.280 reserves. Wow. Last year. But it's just pure tax dollars. You're paying your taxes, and that money
00:16:53.200 is just going to interest, period. Interest to giant banks. So, it is literally the Fed is transferring
00:16:59.900 your tax dollars to the biggest banks in the world. Now, it gets worse. So, they no longer have a
00:17:06.420 requirement, a reserve requirement of, say, 10%. There's actually no requirement at all. You know
00:17:11.340 why? Because they're paying such a big interest rate that the banks are happy to park their money
00:17:19.160 there. And in fact, they're not just doing the 10% reserves. They're putting a bunch more capital
00:17:25.200 there. Right now, today, the Fed is paying 4.4% to the banks to just park their capital with the Fed.
00:17:32.820 So, in 2024, last year, the last year of the Biden administration, the Fed paid $168 billion
00:17:41.240 in interest on reserves. That's taxpayer money that went straight to giant Wall Street banks. I think that
00:17:50.160 makes no sense. I think we need to end that. So, what is it going to be, obviously, hold up here.
00:17:57.320 It seems like it's a sane policy. Is it going to be the lobbyists, and how many people are being
00:18:03.100 lobbied by the big banks to not change this? Is this going to be fighting also the Federal Reserve? I
00:18:07.460 mean, where are the roadblocks here? Yes, yes, yes. And dive in. I mean, because this seems like a very
00:18:12.400 simplistic, fiscal, responsible thing to do. You would certainly do this in the private sector in your
00:18:19.060 own life, so why wouldn't the government do the same thing? So, I'll tell you, while we were in
00:18:23.540 the middle of the one big, beautiful bill, I went on TV. I went on Squawk Box on CNBC. I love doing
00:18:28.780 Squawk Box. It's one of my favorite shows, because they're really smart. You can get into substance.
00:18:32.840 You can get into details. In fact, several times I've done what they call guest hosting Squawk Box,
00:18:37.540 where you spend an hour on TV. And so, instead of a little six-minute interview where you have to do a
00:18:42.740 soundbite, if you guest host Squawk Box for an hour, you can really get into substance and economic
00:18:48.680 issues and issues dealing with finances. So, I was doing Squawk Box during reconciliation,
00:18:55.020 and I raised this issue. And I got to say, Becky Quick, who's one of the hosts, she's like,
00:19:01.380 oh my goodness, well, this would be terrible. I mean, how could this possibly work? The Fed
00:19:06.060 couldn't do its job. So, there's several arguments that are made against this. One
00:19:09.280 is, well, the Fed uses this to control interest rates. And that's right. She's like, well,
00:19:14.640 if you took this away, the Fed wouldn't be able to control interest rates. How would they do it?
00:19:18.800 And my response was, Becky, the same way they did it from 1913 to 2007. Like, the Fed existed
00:19:26.220 for a hundred years and didn't pay a penny in interest on reserves. And somehow the Fed managed
00:19:34.600 to operate until it began. Ben Bernanke was the head of the Fed at the time, and it was interesting.
00:19:38.780 Ben Bernanke said, when this idea was being debated, he said, well, if we pay interest on reserves,
00:19:43.720 that's going to be terrible. That's going to be corporate welfare. People are going to get pissed
00:19:47.660 that we're giving taxpayer money to giant Wall Street banks. That's what Bernanke said when it
00:19:52.680 was just a billion. Now it is $168 billion. But their argument, and listen, it is true,
00:20:00.440 the Fed's job has become much easier. They have a very direct way to control interest rates now.
00:20:05.720 They're paying 4.4 percent if they want interest rates to go up. They just raise the interest rate.
00:20:10.160 They say, okay, we'll pay you 4.6 percent. And all the other interest rates go up automatically.
00:20:15.260 So it makes the Fed's job easier. If they don't do that, they have to do open market transactions
00:20:20.340 to impact the interest rate. It's much more complicated. But again, they did it for a hundred
00:20:25.640 years. Ben, let me give you another fact that's going to blow your mind. Of the $168 billion
00:20:33.120 that the Fed paid last year in interest on reserves. Say that number again. You said
00:20:38.220 $168 billion. Billion. Golly.
00:20:42.360 Roughly half of that, nearly 50 percent, went to foreign banks. So not even American banks.
00:20:50.260 Foreign banks getting tens of billions of dollars of U.S. taxpayer money.
00:20:55.960 Every year. Every year. And so I'll tell you, when I got off Squawk Box, I literally walked back to my
00:21:02.240 office. And the CEO of one of the biggest banks in the United States, a very, very well-known CEO,
00:21:08.380 who I'm not going to name, but he's someone very well-known, he called me, very dismayed,
00:21:16.080 and saying, this is a terrible idea. And I was sort of chuckling, saying, so you're saying you like
00:21:22.600 getting billions of dollars of taxpayer funds every year? And his argument was, well, look,
00:21:28.440 if the Fed stops paying interest on reserves, it's very simple. We'll just buy treasuries instead.
00:21:35.900 So you'll have to pay interest regardless. Now, and he said, and if you don't let us,
00:21:43.340 if you just make us keep reserves, that's confiscation and you can't do that.
00:21:48.580 And I'll tell you my reaction. Let me take each of those arguments that he made. On the first one,
00:21:53.000 the Fed would be forced to buy treasuries. Well, or I'm sorry, not the Fed. The banks would be forced
00:21:59.300 to buy treasuries instead of just parking their money at the Fed. That in and of itself would be
00:22:05.120 a good outcome. Look, there's a lot of concern about a failed Fed auction. If the banks were buying
00:22:12.520 treasuries, that would create demand for treasuries. And you know, one of the things it would do,
00:22:17.780 it would drive down the interest rate by creating more demand for treasuries, which means, listen,
00:22:24.000 one of the things Donald Trump is trying very hard to do is to get the Fed to lower the interest rate.
00:22:29.100 And Jay Powell doesn't want to do it. This change would create a market dynamic that would lower
00:22:35.560 interest rates. That's a good thing. Secondly, you got a ton of money that are what are called excess
00:22:42.280 reserves. They're beyond what a reasonable reserve requirement is. Yeah. And it's just sitting at the
00:22:48.280 Fed. You know what that means? It means those billions of dollars, or even those trillions of
00:22:53.000 dollars, are not being loaned to small businesses. They're not being loaned to open a new store,
00:22:59.500 to buy new equipment, to hire new workers, to expand a new stuff. They're not creating jobs. It's just
00:23:05.380 sitting there. The Fed is paying them, just park your capital and do nothing. I'd much rather banks,
00:23:11.060 if they want to earn a return, have to make loans and loan that out. And as for the second argument
00:23:18.620 that this CEO said of, well, if you don't let them buy treasuries, you just force them to keep
00:23:23.700 reserves. And he said, that's confiscation. I would point out for the entire history of our country,
00:23:30.140 that has been the law. There has been a reserve requirement. That's called fractional banking.
00:23:35.500 You know, if you have a bank, again, use the example, you got a bank with a hundred billion dollars.
00:23:39.040 It has not been legal for most of the history of our country for someone to take a hundred billion
00:23:43.800 dollars in deposits and loan out a hundred billion dollars. Why is that not legal? Because if your
00:23:49.160 depositors come in and say, hey, can I have my money back? If they've loaned all the money out,
00:23:52.820 they don't have money to give it back to you. And so we have long had a regulatory system that says
00:23:58.140 you have to keep a reasonable reserve so that if your depositors want their money back, you can pay
00:24:03.720 them. That has never been confiscation. And so the banks have loved it because they have made
00:24:08.980 massive amounts of money just ending this one one provision over 10 years would save more than one
00:24:19.440 trillion dollars. It's a powerful, powerful idea. But I got to say, they're really powerful forces
00:24:25.700 that do not want to see this happen. Canadian women are looking for more, more out of themselves, 1.00
00:24:31.360 their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world around them. And that's why we're thrilled
00:24:35.440 to introduce the Honest Talk podcast. I'm Jennifer Stewart. And I'm Catherine Clark. And in this
00:24:41.100 podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women, entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, politicians,
00:24:47.000 and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey. So if you're looking to connect,
00:24:51.680 then we hope you'll join us. Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on iHeart Radio or wherever you listen
00:24:56.700 to your podcasts. I want to finally move to that fix that you mentioned coming for the one big,
00:25:02.880 beautiful bill. There's a push. It's actually bipartisan to undo a gambling tax hike that they
00:25:10.360 passed in the mega bill. And there was an outcry because it's, as you mentioned, it's unfair how it
00:25:16.620 was written specifically to one group of people in the job that they do.
00:25:21.640 Yeah. So there was a little provision that was written in the one big, beautiful bill. And nobody
00:25:27.300 saw this. This was a tiny little provision. The bill is a massive bill. It's thousands of pages.
00:25:32.460 And what this provision said is it deals with how you pay taxes on gambling winnings and losses.
00:25:39.600 And the way the law used to work was very common sense, which is that you deduct your losses from
00:25:46.080 your wins and you pay taxes on your net, what you actually made, your profit. That's actually a
00:25:52.080 sensible way to do a tax law. The change, now anyone gambling can only deduct 90% of their losses
00:26:01.500 rather than 100% of their losses. Now, what does that mean? Let's take, for example,
00:26:06.360 as you know, I like to play poker. I play poker with a lot of buddies. I always play really low
00:26:11.500 stakes poker, but I enjoy the game. And I've got several friends who are poker pros. So, you know,
00:26:17.200 I do every year, I do a fundraiser in Vegas that raises money for my campaign. And we get
00:26:23.640 people who come and hang out and several poker players come and hang out with us and play poker.
00:26:29.180 So let's say you're, and look, I like, I think poker is a fascinating game. It is strategic game. It
00:26:36.400 involves math, but it involves reading people. I love watching like the World Series of Poker,
00:26:43.060 watching the strategy. There's a whole vibrant world of people who earn their livings playing
00:26:50.500 professional poker. And it's, you know, as you know, several years ago, I got a chance,
00:26:55.660 I played on Poker After Dark. And I played with Doyle Brunson and Phil Hellmuth. And Doyle Brunson,
00:27:02.240 who was known as Texas Dolly, one of the greatest poker players to ever live. It was truly a bucket
00:27:07.800 list experience to play with him. I also played with Mr. Beast, which was really fun. I got to tell
00:27:13.840 you, sitting down, I was really, really excited to be playing with Doyle and playing with Phil
00:27:19.660 Hellmuth. Doyle, so my goal going in, look, both of them are much, much better players than I am,
00:27:25.680 obviously. My goal was just to take chips off them. I wanted to win at least one hand and be like,
00:27:31.400 all right, I won a hand and took chips. I ended up being lucky and doing better than that. And so
00:27:36.500 with Doyle, I went all in and ended up busting him out, which is, and you can watch it if you want to
00:27:43.580 Google, you can watch online, me busting Doyle Brunson out. That was astonishing. And I got to
00:27:49.320 say, he was so gracious. I mean, Doyle has since passed, but he won the very first World Series of
00:27:55.840 poker and is just a legendary poker player. That was incredibly meaningful. And then towards the end
00:28:01.980 of the game on Poker After Dark, I was playing with Phil Hellmuth. Phil Hellmuth, Phil will tell
00:28:06.700 you he's the greatest poker player alive. By any measure, he's certainly one of the greatest poker
00:28:10.540 players alive. And he's got a good argument that he may be the greatest. Between Doyle and Phil,
00:28:17.760 they had at the time 25 bracelets, which means together they had won 25 different World Series
00:28:23.580 events to give you a sense of just how accomplished these two players are. Phil and I end up, we're
00:28:31.320 playing Texas Hold'em and I went all in and I had ace king and he had ace queen. So I had him
00:28:39.280 dominated. I was a massive favorite. I was about a three to one favorite. And then what ends up
00:28:45.540 happening is Phil got lucky and he sucked out a queen. And it was funny. Phil, and so he crippled 0.95
00:28:51.480 me. He didn't knock me out, but he basically crippled me. And then I went out a couple hands
00:28:55.040 later. It was funny. Phil was embarrassed because I got my chips in as the dominant favorite and he just
00:29:02.540 got lucky. And he was like, oh, I feel terrible to win like that. I'm like, Phil, I am thrilled.
00:29:07.700 If I played that hand a hundred times, I'd want to play it exactly the same way and get my chips in
00:29:12.380 every time. And look, that's why they call it gambling, because some chunk of it you lose. Anyway,
00:29:17.100 let's talk about what this provision does. Let's say you're a poker pro. And let's say in a given year,
00:29:24.440 you lose $100,000 playing poker and you win $130,000. Okay. So you're, you know, you're not a
00:29:34.640 super rich player, but you're out playing and, and, and, you know, you made, you netted 30 grand. 30
00:29:38.840 grand is what, what you made that year. Ordinarily, uh, you would deduct the hundred grand from the
00:29:46.200 130 grand and you would pay taxes on the 30,000 profit you had. Which by the way, is exactly what
00:29:51.280 everyone else does. Right. Now, under the new law, you lose a hundred grand that year, you make 130.
00:29:59.360 You could only deduct 90% of the hundred grand you lost, which means instead of paying taxes on the
00:30:07.140 30 grand you made, you would pay taxes on 40 grand. You would end up paying taxes on more than you made
00:30:16.680 that that's wildly unfair. By the way, even worse than that, let's assume you had a really lousy
00:30:22.540 year. Let's assume you won a hundred thousand dollars and lost a hundred thousand dollars.
00:30:27.080 So you, you like just netted nothing. You broke even under this law. You'd have to pay taxes on 10
00:30:33.940 grand because you could only deduct 90% of your losses. So even though you made not a penny,
00:30:38.760 you would owe taxes on the 10 grand. That is wildly unfair. And, and I got to tell you,
00:30:45.020 I don't know of a Senator who knew this was in there. It was a tiny little provision buried in
00:30:49.020 there. We were moving incredibly fast at three in the morning. And so nobody saw it there.
00:30:54.220 When I heard about it, I said, that makes no sense at all, but it was already passed. It was signed in
00:30:58.920 law at the time I heard about it. And so what I've done, I've joined with, with the two Nevada senators,
00:31:04.020 with Catherine Cortez Masto and Jackie Rosen. They're both Democrats. And also Bill Haggerty,
00:31:09.340 who's a Republican. And all four of us have joined in legislation to fix this. I think we need to fix it.
00:31:14.520 We, we should not be treating people unfairly. Uh, the income tax should tax people on, on real
00:31:21.080 income, not imaginary income, uh, that, that, that is unfair. I don't know that we'll get it fixed
00:31:26.740 because look, changing anything in the law is complicated. Uh, but I hope we will, because I
00:31:31.560 can tell you, I, I don't know of a Senator Republican or Democrat who's arguing. This is a good idea. I've,
00:31:38.260 I've sat and talked with a number of my colleagues and it's not like someone is taking the other side
00:31:42.640 and saying, no, let's, let's, let's be wildly unfair. Um, I hope we can get this fixed. Uh,
00:31:49.140 and, and I think we need to, because, because we need to be fair. Um, and, and look, there,
00:31:54.960 there's a whole industry, particularly around Vegas of, of, of people who are poker pros and,
00:31:59.700 and make their livings and, and generate a lot of revenue. And if we don't change this,
00:32:03.720 the effect will be to drive those poker pros out of the U S we will force them to go
00:32:08.700 elsewhere. That, that, that, that would be really a tragic outcome. And so I don't want to see that
00:32:14.640 happen. Yeah, no doubt about it. Don't forget. We do this show Monday, Wednesday, Friday, hit that
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