Verdict with Ted Cruz - January 08, 2025


Facebook Says ＂We Will STOP Censoring Conservatives＂, plus Greenland, Panama & Canada


Episode Stats

Length

47 minutes

Words per Minute

167.7324

Word Count

7,948

Sentence Count

589

Misogynist Sentences

6

Hate Speech Sentences

14


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.
00:00:05.300 Welcome.
00:00:06.040 It is Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you.
00:00:09.380 And Senator, you are back in Washington, D.C.
00:00:11.800 It's 2025.
00:00:14.360 Everything seems to be going in the right direction.
00:00:16.880 That terrifies me at the same time.
00:00:19.120 And it's getting so good that even Facebook says we're going to let conservatives hang
00:00:25.160 out on our platform without us, you know, like actually shutting them down every time
00:00:29.580 they say something we don't like.
00:00:31.520 Welcome to Trump 2025 universe.
00:00:34.940 Well, it's been big news this week.
00:00:37.500 The week started with Congress coming back and certifying Donald Trump as the winner of
00:00:42.660 the 2024 election.
00:00:43.960 Donald Trump will be the new president on January 20th.
00:00:48.880 I will say it was really it was remarkable.
00:00:51.200 Poor Kamala Harris had to preside over that, had to announce the results.
00:00:56.560 I will say I was sitting on the floor of the House along with the rest of Congress in a
00:01:00.260 joint session and Congress, as they read each state's results, every Republican cheered
00:01:06.380 for the states that Trump won.
00:01:09.040 Every Democrat cheered for the states that Kamala won.
00:01:12.160 And then at the end when she said and the result in the winner is Donald Trump, all the
00:01:16.840 Republicans cheered.
00:01:17.800 I will say, even though you and I were strongly supporting President Trump, I did feel for
00:01:23.880 Kamala standing there as we're all cheering her getting her ass kicked, that that that I'm
00:01:30.400 sure was not easy to stand up and do it.
00:01:34.080 And I'll give her credit.
00:01:34.920 She kept an absolute poker face the entire time as she was reading the results.
00:01:41.180 I was sitting next to Eric Schmidt, senator from Missouri.
00:01:46.520 I turned as they were kind of like in in the D's of the states.
00:01:50.700 I turned to him and said, hey, I wonder how it's going to end.
00:01:52.900 Who's going to win?
00:01:55.960 I will tell you, by the way, I also was was joking with with several several senators.
00:02:04.460 J.D. Vance was was earlier this week on on some painkillers.
00:02:08.220 And I asked him how he was doing.
00:02:09.420 He said he was fine.
00:02:10.740 And I said, well, J.D., look, we're we're going to know if if you're high, if we go into
00:02:15.800 the certification and you stand up and object your own election.
00:02:20.880 What did he say?
00:02:22.320 He laughed.
00:02:23.360 Thankfully, he did not.
00:02:24.500 He was not, in fact, high and he did not object.
00:02:27.220 By the way, you got a little side bet going with him right now.
00:02:29.820 Let's let's just let's let people know what's happening this week.
00:02:32.600 This side bet's gotten a lot of Twitter attention and you challenge him to a bet because
00:02:38.080 his his Buckeyes are playing your team in the national championship playoff.
00:02:44.440 Well, for the semifinals, the Cotton Bowl is on Friday and UT is playing Ohio State.
00:02:50.320 Ohio State is favored.
00:02:51.720 I think they're up about five and a half, six points on the line.
00:02:55.840 But but I challenged him and said, look, let's have a friendly wager on this.
00:03:00.940 The loser has to provide food and beer from your home state.
00:03:07.020 And here's the kicker.
00:03:08.020 You got to show up and deliver it in the jersey of the winning team.
00:03:11.860 And I'll tell you, that's kind of my standard sports bet.
00:03:14.320 I've made those bets a lot in various World Series games and other other national championship
00:03:20.140 games.
00:03:20.720 I will say I want to make sure everybody knows the menu because the Texas menu is stellar.
00:03:26.600 And I don't know if Ohio can can, you know, keep up with what you're bringing to the table.
00:03:31.500 If, in fact, there's some crazy reason that you lose this bet.
00:03:35.100 Yeah, look, what I said is if I lose, I'll provide Texas barbecue and Blue Bell ice cream
00:03:41.000 and Shiner Bach beer.
00:03:42.800 But I also said doesn't matter because I ain't going to lose.
00:03:45.700 The Horns are going to win Texas by five.
00:03:47.500 So that's my prediction, Texas by five.
00:03:50.140 And we'll see.
00:03:51.900 I'll tell you, particularly on the World Series, I've made these bets every time the Strohs
00:03:56.100 have been in the World Series.
00:03:57.080 And I've won them and lost them.
00:03:58.220 Winning them is fun.
00:04:00.340 2017, when the Strohs beat the Dodgers, actually, I made the bet with Kamala Harris.
00:04:04.720 And Kamala showed up in my office.
00:04:06.660 She had C's chocolate and California red wine that she brought.
00:04:11.440 But she was wearing Astros gear.
00:04:13.500 And she actually Facebook live streamed it as she went to deliver it.
00:04:17.500 And then I had a wager with Tim Kaine when the Strohs played the Nats.
00:04:24.180 That really sucked when I showed up and had to pay off to Tim.
00:04:28.320 And I also had a wager with John Ossoff when the Strohs played the Braves in the World Series.
00:04:33.900 That sucked, and I paid off to him.
00:04:36.180 But I had a wager with Pat Toomey when the Strohs paid the Phillies.
00:04:40.420 And I was quite happy to accept.
00:04:43.220 Pat came by and brought some Philadelphia pretzels and some, I don't even remember,
00:04:48.700 some kind of Philly beer in Astros gear.
00:04:52.320 And so between the two, I've got to say, winning is better than losing.
00:04:55.040 So hopefully it's J.D. showing up saying, go Strohs.
00:04:58.800 Yeah, and what does J.D.'s, what does he bring?
00:05:01.220 What beer do they even have up there?
00:05:02.900 That's what I want to know.
00:05:03.760 You know, Ohio beats the heck out of me.
00:05:07.660 I mean, it's not barbecue he's bringing you.
00:05:09.420 I know that.
00:05:10.140 It's like, what do you even bring?
00:05:12.020 You know, in Cincinnati, they claim they make chili.
00:05:14.520 I'm not sure about that.
00:05:15.760 But I'm told that's something they talk about.
00:05:18.900 So I don't know what he'll bring, but I look forward to finding out.
00:05:22.880 You'll be eating it.
00:05:24.280 You may wish you're getting the barbecue in that moment, but we'll see what happens there.
00:05:28.220 So we've got this big news of Facebook that has come out.
00:05:32.360 But there's also a lot of chatter, and I know you wanted to keep previewing for people.
00:05:36.820 We're going to cover two other things in this podcast today as well.
00:05:39.840 Yeah, look, number one, Facebook has announced a brand new set of policies,
00:05:44.740 and it says it is now going to stop censoring conservatives.
00:05:48.160 That's a big, big deal.
00:05:49.760 We're going to talk about it.
00:05:50.620 We're going to talk about what specifically they announced, what it means,
00:05:53.940 and what to expect, how it's likely to impact the free speech and the world of online conversation.
00:06:02.820 We're also going to talk about Donald Trump's press conference in Mar-a-Lago.
00:06:07.500 It was quite the tour de force.
00:06:09.160 He covered a lot of things.
00:06:10.220 But in particular, we're going to talk about Greenland and Panama and Canada.
00:06:15.600 All of that is coming up in this pod.
00:06:18.720 Yeah, it's going to be a fun one.
00:06:20.200 I want to talk to you real quick about the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews,
00:06:23.860 and the new year as a time of reflection on the past year, and also hope for the year to come.
00:06:30.060 Last year was an incredibly turbulent time for Israel and the Jewish people,
00:06:34.460 with the devastating and ongoing multi-front war and unprecedented rise in global anti-Semitism
00:06:41.140 and the loss of many Jewish lives on top of that.
00:06:45.460 Well, we've also seen an uprising of love and support from you, the listeners.
00:06:50.800 And through the partnership with the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews,
00:06:54.720 we had an incredible impact for the people that are hurting in Israel in 2024.
00:07:00.680 Your support of IFCJ has saved lives, and it's answered prayers.
00:07:05.800 And thanks to the generosity of so many of you,
00:07:08.300 we have actually been able to put in bomb shelters that have been built and placed where they are needed the most.
00:07:14.240 We've been able to give life-saving food and emergency supplies that have provided for evacuees
00:07:19.740 and those in critical need.
00:07:21.400 And we've also provided protective gear and medical equipment, including armored ambulances,
00:07:28.720 bulletproof ambulances that have been used to evacuate and save the lives of many who have been hurt in Israel.
00:07:35.220 This is exactly why I'm asking you to stay involved.
00:07:39.260 There's still more work to be done.
00:07:41.320 And that's why I want you to join the movement of those who have raised their voices to support Israel and the Jewish people.
00:07:46.680 I want to ask you to continue to pray for the people in Israel and also about supporting IFCJ.
00:07:54.200 You can go to supportifcj.org.
00:07:58.300 That's one word, support, ifcj.org.
00:08:02.420 That's supportifcj.org.
00:08:05.140 All right, Senator, rarely do you and I not see eye to eye on issues,
00:08:09.420 and I am going to be a pessimist on the Facebook part.
00:08:14.540 Here is my argument.
00:08:15.820 You say this is a big moment, I would agree, but I also think this is just crap.
00:08:21.460 And this is temporary, and as soon as Democrats get back in charge,
00:08:25.420 they're going to undo everything that Zuckerberg vows to restore free speech,
00:08:29.980 which, by the way, is also him admitting that they were censoring and silencing people with free speech.
00:08:36.360 And I go back to this.
00:08:38.700 Let me remind you of what Zuckerberg allowed to happen.
00:08:41.620 They allowed a sitting president of the United States of America to be taken off the platform while he was the president of the United States of America.
00:08:51.840 They gave over information to the feds when they came knocking, looking for different intel on conservatives.
00:08:59.940 They also silenced and censored information about COVID-19.
00:09:05.160 And they took orders from the government, the Biden-Harris administration, on people to shut down, to silence,
00:09:12.340 and to make sure that their post didn't see the light of day.
00:09:14.860 I, by the way, was one of them.
00:09:16.660 So when I see this, I am not like, oh, this is an amazing day.
00:09:21.020 To me, it's like they read the tea leaves.
00:09:23.140 Donald Trump's in charge.
00:09:24.660 Republicans have power in the Senate.
00:09:26.420 They have power in the House.
00:09:27.980 They are the majority.
00:09:28.800 And they realize they've got to make a business decision.
00:09:31.780 And so that's why all of a sudden he comes out.
00:09:33.460 He's like, I'm in favor of free speech.
00:09:35.160 That's my take, your reaction.
00:09:37.980 Well, look, I think every word you said is accurate.
00:09:40.840 Facebook has been a very bad actor.
00:09:42.820 They have engaged in rampant censorship of conservatives.
00:09:47.780 And you're right.
00:09:49.400 They engaged in censorship when it came to COVID.
00:09:51.880 They engaged in censorship when it came to making the argument that COVID originated in China
00:09:58.660 and the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which, mind you, this podcast did right at the beginning of the pandemic
00:10:04.060 when very few other people were laying out those facts.
00:10:06.980 They actively and aggressively suppressed news on the Hunter Biden laptop in the 2020 election.
00:10:15.080 They targeted and suppressed posts from conservatives.
00:10:20.420 So their behavior on free speech has been quite terrible.
00:10:24.820 That being said, look, there are several broader dynamics.
00:10:27.840 And I want to talk about the context and why I've got some degree of hope here.
00:10:33.060 And then I want to talk about the specifics of what they announced.
00:10:36.900 But let's look at the context.
00:10:38.700 Number one, you said they're kissing up to Trump.
00:10:41.240 That's clearly true.
00:10:42.380 And we're seeing all across corporate America, corporate America freaking out,
00:10:48.240 recognizing that Trump is coming back in the White House.
00:10:51.020 There's a Republican Senate, a Republican House.
00:10:53.420 And we're seeing corporate America at least saying they're changing paths.
00:10:59.080 We're seeing companies announcing that they're abandoning their DEI policies.
00:11:04.500 It's fairly dramatic.
00:11:06.080 I think that is a real driver here, that Facebook suddenly realized that there was a new sheriff in town
00:11:12.500 and that they were on the wrong side of things.
00:11:14.920 I think that's one piece.
00:11:16.720 I think, secondly, there is a dynamic in big tech that is flowing from Elon Musk's buying Twitter.
00:11:23.600 That was, you and I have talked about multiple times, I think, the most important step for free speech in decades.
00:11:32.860 And Twitter has now become the public square.
00:11:37.020 Because Elon stopped censoring and began allowing people to speak,
00:11:42.000 the pressure it has put on Facebook and other platforms is enormous.
00:11:46.660 And I think this is also the consequence of competition from X via Elon Musk.
00:11:55.160 And look, one of the ways this manifested was last week,
00:11:59.840 Meta, Facebook's new name and parent company,
00:12:03.260 Meta announced that their old head of policy globally,
00:12:09.440 a guy named Nick Clegg, was on his way out.
00:12:13.080 And Nick Clegg, I've met him and visited with him, he's a nice enough guy,
00:12:17.220 but he was a liberal British politician.
00:12:19.720 He was a member of parliament, he was a liberal, and he was the one in charge of global policy.
00:12:24.960 Well, last week Facebook announced Nick Clegg was gone, and they were elevating two people.
00:12:30.700 They were elevating Joel Kaplan and Kevin Martin.
00:12:33.800 Now, who are Joel Kaplan and Kevin Martin?
00:12:35.920 Well, they're both Republicans.
00:12:37.300 Joel Kaplan was the deputy head of OMB under George W. Bush,
00:12:45.300 and he was the deputy chief of staff in the White House under George W. Bush.
00:12:49.820 Joel Kaplan was also, before that, a law clerk to Justice Scalia.
00:12:54.140 Who's Kevin Martin?
00:12:55.300 Kevin Martin was George W. Bush's chairman of the FCC, the Federal Communication Commission.
00:13:01.880 Now, I'll tell you, both Joel and Kevin have been friends of mine for 25 years.
00:13:07.520 And in fact, Joel and Kevin were both with me and with Heidi on the 2000 Bush campaign.
00:13:13.760 We were on the campaign together.
00:13:14.920 I know both of them really well.
00:13:17.680 Now, when Meta was making this announcement, they actually reached out and they asked me,
00:13:24.180 hey, would you be willing to say something positive about this announcement?
00:13:27.620 And it's interesting, Ben.
00:13:28.600 I actually had a debate internally with my staff, and a lot of my staff were skeptical.
00:13:35.020 They said, you shouldn't, that Facebook's been a bad actor, don't say anything positive.
00:13:40.680 And when I ended up telling my team, I said, look, I hear you.
00:13:44.160 I agree with everything you're saying.
00:13:46.060 At the same time, Joel and Kevin and I go back a long way.
00:13:49.920 So I decided, I put out a tweet, and I said, listen, I'm going to make it personal,
00:13:54.480 just given our own history, but I'm also going to make it aspirational.
00:13:59.060 I'm going to say, this is what I hope it means.
00:14:02.280 I don't know that it does, but this is what I hope their promotion means.
00:14:06.580 So here's what I tweeted.
00:14:08.260 Congratulations.
00:14:09.120 Both Joel and Kevin have been friends of mine for 25 years, and I am hopeful that their promotion
00:14:14.580 signals a renewed commitment to free speech online.
00:14:18.560 For the past decade, big tech has been far too eager to censor and silence.
00:14:23.480 I hope that Meta will now join X in fighting to protect free speech for everyone.
00:14:30.980 Now, I sent that, and then I'll tell you, yesterday, I started the day by having a call
00:14:38.780 with both Joel and Kevin, where they previewed what Meta was going to do.
00:14:42.760 It was before their public announcement, and they asked to set up a call and lay out their
00:14:47.240 steps, and I'll tell you what I told them.
00:14:49.460 I said, listen, I like what you're saying.
00:14:51.640 I think it's positive.
00:14:53.120 I am glad that you're making efforts to move in the direction of free speech.
00:14:57.200 I said, given Facebook's history, you will forgive me if I'm skeptical.
00:15:02.820 And in fact, I told both of them, you will not be surprised.
00:15:06.740 My attitude is going to be borrowed from Ronald Reagan.
00:15:10.740 Trust, but verify.
00:15:12.900 I like what you're saying.
00:15:13.860 The steps you're laying out are positive, but the proof is going to be the pudding.
00:15:19.640 The proof is going to be, do you allow real free speech, or are you suppressing and silencing
00:15:25.180 conservatives?
00:15:26.640 If they follow the lead of X and genuinely defend free speech, that is a massive, massive victory
00:15:36.260 and something we've been fighting a long time.
00:15:38.340 So I'm going to welcome them that they're at least saying the right thing.
00:15:43.400 At the same time, we are going to watch very closely to see if their actions match up with
00:15:49.460 what they're saying they intend to do.
00:15:51.020 All right.
00:15:51.240 So let me play devil's advocate for everybody that is angry like I am.
00:15:55.360 I spoke out against Facebook for censoring and silencing conservatives at CPAC, SFI, many
00:16:02.320 times.
00:16:02.740 And I got on a plane after making that speech at CPAC down in Florida during COVID.
00:16:08.620 I landed to my entire account being shut down.
00:16:11.500 They went back five years to find things to ding me on so they could then shut it down.
00:16:18.060 And it completely changed everything that I was doing in the radio space.
00:16:23.420 So many other conservatives had that.
00:16:25.180 So the worry now is, well, they saw the writing on the wall, so they're hoping that Donald Trump
00:16:32.460 and Republicans will move on from holding them accountable for their actions.
00:16:37.740 And we're getting played by a company that has no intent to really do this as soon as
00:16:42.700 Democrats get back power.
00:16:44.560 So they're hoping for a free pass with this new Congress when there could be real regulations
00:16:49.340 on Facebook, Meta, Instagram, etc.
00:16:53.280 Your response to that?
00:16:55.300 Yeah, look, their behavior, as I said, has been despicable.
00:16:59.060 And I'll tell you, I've spent a fair amount of time with Mark Zuckerberg.
00:17:02.260 And look, Zuckerberg is very clever at positioning Facebook so that there are other juicier targets
00:17:11.040 around him.
00:17:11.880 So previously, you have, number one, Google, which is massive and is the most dangerous
00:17:19.280 and horrific, I think, company on the planet and the most dangerous company in the world
00:17:28.260 for free speech.
00:17:29.720 You had Twitter when Jack Dorsey was CEO that was just malevolent.
00:17:34.800 That they, I mean, Dorsey looked like a troll under a bridge with a beard down to his knees
00:17:40.580 that would almost cackle at censoring the views of conservatives.
00:17:44.880 And Zuckerberg was very good at saying, look, we're not as big and bad as Google,
00:17:49.420 and we're not as malevolent as Twitter.
00:17:52.120 And by the way, TikTok, they're Chinese.
00:17:54.520 And, you know, that combination was pretty good, that Facebook managed to be, to point at others.
00:18:01.760 Are they trying to do some of that here?
00:18:03.460 Sure.
00:18:04.460 But you know what?
00:18:05.200 I will accept a change in behavior if, if, if their behavior actually changes.
00:18:11.780 So do not misunderstand me, Ben.
00:18:14.720 I'm not saying I'm just going to take their empty words at face value.
00:18:18.540 I'm going to expect real action.
00:18:20.420 And one of the things I made clear to them, as of today, actually, I am now the chairman
00:18:26.340 of the Senate Commerce Committee.
00:18:27.500 Uh, and the Commerce Committee has jurisdiction over 40% of the U.S. economy, including big tech,
00:18:34.460 including the internet, and it is going to be a major priority of the Commerce Committee
00:18:38.360 to defend free speech online.
00:18:40.320 And I told them, well, you can expect hearings on this.
00:18:43.640 You're going to have the opportunity to explain what you're doing.
00:18:46.420 You're going to have the opportunity to demonstrate transparency.
00:18:49.480 In the past, Facebook has been terrible in responding to requests from me for information.
00:18:55.940 And so I fully expect to keep pressing them for greater transparency.
00:19:00.800 But all of that being said, listen, the announcement is significant.
00:19:06.600 And listen, there, there are, there were six different elements that they said that they
00:19:13.240 were doing, that they announced.
00:19:14.900 Number one, Facebook is eliminating fact checks.
00:19:19.240 That's huge, by the way, because that's how they shut down conservatives, just so people
00:19:22.780 understand how it works.
00:19:23.740 You get strikes against you.
00:19:25.540 They say that something you post is, is partially false.
00:19:28.380 And then they give you the quote opportunity to appeal the decision.
00:19:32.580 I've never wanted to appeal my entire time on Facebook.
00:19:36.500 So then they say you are punished and you are reduced in your reach.
00:19:40.440 So you could have 5 million followers and maybe 500 will see your post once they put you in
00:19:46.360 jail, which is how they limit you before elections.
00:19:48.760 You're right, and they were relying on, quote, fact-checking organizations that were wildly
00:19:55.180 biased left-wing organizations.
00:19:57.400 PolitiFact is a hardcore left-wing dishonest editorial operation.
00:20:02.760 I have, I've talked about, I think in multiple books I've written, just how dishonest PolitiFact
00:20:07.600 is.
00:20:08.300 And so they're eliminating it.
00:20:09.540 They're no longer going to do fact checks and they're going to replace it with community
00:20:13.480 notes, which they said they're explicitly borrowing from X, so that if there are significant
00:20:19.300 counter facts, rather than suppress something, they'll place a community note.
00:20:23.040 I think community notes on X are actually quite helpful.
00:20:26.380 And it's a good way to provide balance.
00:20:29.360 It is actually reminiscent of the approach.
00:20:32.780 You know, John Stuart Mill said the best cure for bad speech is more speech.
00:20:36.860 And so, look, if people say things that are factually inaccurate, I think a community note
00:20:42.240 is a good way to provide counter facts to it.
00:20:45.160 But eliminating the fact checks, that is a meaningful step.
00:20:49.680 Secondly, they said they're changing their content policies specifically on gender and
00:20:56.460 immigration.
00:20:57.640 And so previously, if you posted there are only two genders, man and woman, Facebook would
00:21:04.880 suppress that.
00:21:05.580 They told me they will not suppress that anymore, that they will allow statements like that
00:21:10.300 to be made, to be discussed.
00:21:12.340 Now, people can disagree with it.
00:21:13.960 They can say, no, no, no, there are 47 genders.
00:21:15.820 If they want to do that, they can have debate.
00:21:18.080 But they said they're going to stop censoring statements like that.
00:21:23.420 The third thing they said is they're going to focus content filters on finding illegal content,
00:21:28.980 not low-level policy violations.
00:21:31.140 And a significant component of that is they said right now they rely on AI and algorithms
00:21:37.780 to find and suppress posts.
00:21:39.780 And they said there's a significant error rate that the algorithms, the AI gets it wrong and
00:21:44.780 suppresses posts accidentally.
00:21:47.140 And they said they're going to stop using AI and they're going to rely on people focusing on things like
00:21:55.540 child porn, like selling drugs, like promoting terrorism on clearly illegal conduct rather than an algorithm.
00:22:05.620 That also certainly seems positive on its face.
00:22:09.500 Beyond that, they're going to return political content into their algorithm.
00:22:15.720 So several years ago, Facebook made a decision to de-emphasize politics.
00:22:20.820 And they just phased it out of their algorithm because they wanted people to post on Facebook,
00:22:26.700 you know, happy-go-lucky, I like M&Ms, blue smurfs are great, rather than actually talking about the issues
00:22:33.400 of public policy and democracy of the day.
00:22:37.880 They're going to return it back.
00:22:39.420 And they said the algorithm is if you engage on Facebook, Ben, if you click on political content,
00:22:45.040 their algorithm is going to show you more political content.
00:22:47.360 So for people that demonstrate an interest by engaging with political content, they'll get more of it.
00:22:53.640 That's a significant shift.
00:22:55.500 Facebook used to be much, much more important for politics than it's been recently because they've
00:23:00.280 de-emphasized political content.
00:23:02.420 They're also moving their content review teams from California to Texas.
00:23:07.880 And they said they're not going to have people in Silicon Valley engaged in content review because
00:23:13.300 Silicon Valley has such a significant political bias.
00:23:17.360 Each of those steps, look, they ain't nothing.
00:23:20.640 Now, if they don't follow through on it, you and I are going to be the very first to call them to task.
00:23:27.840 If they abandon them in the future, you and I will call them to task as well.
00:23:32.160 But those are real, meaningful steps.
00:23:36.080 And so I want to take the chance to just celebrate that they're at least promising to do things that are good.
00:23:44.060 I go back to Reagan, trust, but verify.
00:23:46.840 And trust may be strong.
00:23:49.340 Listen, but verify.
00:23:50.780 Maybe it may be more my approach to this.
00:23:52.440 Canadian women are looking for more.
00:23:55.060 More out of themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world around them.
00:23:59.520 And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast.
00:24:03.160 I'm Jennifer Stewart.
00:24:04.420 And I'm Catherine Clark.
00:24:05.640 And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women.
00:24:09.280 Entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, politicians, and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey.
00:24:14.840 So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us.
00:24:18.380 Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on iHeartRadio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
00:24:24.400 Final question on this is, does there still need to be legislation while the Republicans are in control?
00:24:31.640 Yes.
00:24:31.980 And in power when it comes to regulating big tech in general because of their abuse of power in the past?
00:24:38.520 I understand, trust, but verify.
00:24:39.780 Yes, yes, yes.
00:24:40.720 But what would that look like now, and does any of that change with them voluntarily doing this, I would argue, preemptively?
00:24:47.940 Well, I fully expect, again, the Commerce Committee to take up and have hearings on exactly what legislation would look like.
00:24:54.060 I've talked about, I think, one of the most important things is Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act
00:24:59.740 gives an immunity from liability to big tech companies that has shielded a lot of bad behavior.
00:25:04.800 And at the time it was passed, it was passed under an assumption that big tech companies would be neutral,
00:25:13.320 they would be the town square, they would not be putting a finger on the scale.
00:25:18.100 Big tech made a decision to behave very, very differently.
00:25:20.760 And so I've long supported legislation that would say you do not get Section 230 immunity if you engage in political censorship.
00:25:32.780 That censorship vitiates your immunity.
00:25:36.720 I still think that's important.
00:25:38.440 I can't promise we'll get that passed because many, if not most, if not all Democrats will oppose it.
00:25:44.640 But you can be sure we are going to have hearings and we're going to examine, and I'm going to push for legislation to address that.
00:25:53.700 And I think that's important to do.
00:25:55.600 But I also think Facebook joining with X, particularly if they're real, if they're genuine, if they follow through on this,
00:26:03.720 that's going to put real pressure on the granddaddy of them all.
00:26:09.420 Google and they own YouTube, and both Google and Search and YouTube engage in rampant censorship and suppression of conservative speech.
00:26:21.080 And it's one thing to have X alone, but having now Facebook join that, and also Facebook owns Instagram.
00:26:27.520 And so having Instagram, if they follow through, listen, X has done a remarkable job opening it up to free speech.
00:26:35.500 Now, Elon is, I think, a true believer in free speech.
00:26:40.580 Zuckerberg clearly is not because he has been far too willing to censor for him to be a true believer.
00:26:45.940 That being said, what he's articulating right now is that he wants to change his conduct,
00:26:51.640 and I want to encourage him to do that because Facebook changing their conduct and Instagram changing their conduct
00:26:59.040 is very, very good for free speech and very, very good for democracy in America.
00:27:04.100 If, if, if they follow through and actually do what they're claiming they're going to do.
00:27:09.760 Bonus question here, because it's in the same realm, TikTok.
00:27:13.100 You look at TikTok right now, TikTok is banned in China, but owned by them.
00:27:18.780 You can't use it there if you're living there.
00:27:21.180 There is these moves to force the sale of TikTok in the U.S.
00:27:26.940 so that it won't be run by China.
00:27:29.020 We know how these algorithms have worked, and they've been harmful to kids.
00:27:32.400 You've talked about that.
00:27:34.360 Do you think we are going to see a day now where it's, there's a chance that free speech is alive and well on Facebook?
00:27:41.880 Obviously, the leader's X.
00:27:43.400 But TikTok will also go in the hands of Americans and not in the hands of Chinese anymore.
00:27:49.300 So I hope so.
00:27:50.340 Congress has passed legislation, I voted for it, that would ban TikTok unless they are sold by China, unless they are no longer under Chinese ownership or control.
00:28:04.040 That legislation is effective on January 19th.
00:28:07.300 So we are very close to that legislation going into effect.
00:28:10.120 Now, there's litigation ongoing, so it's possible the courts could stay the effect of that legislation.
00:28:16.780 But if the courts don't issue an injunction, TikTok shuts down on January 19th.
00:28:21.800 And I'll tell you, as you know, I spent New Year's Eve at Mar-a-Lago, Heidi and the girls that I went.
00:28:27.900 By the way, it was an amazing time, just a wild party.
00:28:30.980 At my table, one of the people I was sitting with was Don King, the legendary boxing promoter, 93 years old now.
00:28:41.340 And, you know, Don King loves Trump.
00:28:44.560 And it was very cool.
00:28:45.860 He actually gave me, he had a photograph of himself as a young man with that white hair sticking straight up, along with Muhammad Ali when he was a young man, the two of them together.
00:28:56.560 And Don King gave me a signed photo of that, which is really cool.
00:28:59.480 I'm going to frame and put up just because, holy crap, that's Don King.
00:29:02.940 Yeah, that's incredible.
00:29:04.940 So that was cool.
00:29:06.140 But I'll tell you, Catherine, our 14-year-old, she had told me her intention at the party was to lobby Donald Trump, not to ban TikTok.
00:29:16.320 And look, she's in eighth grade.
00:29:17.640 And if you're a 14-year-old girl in eighth grade, every eighth grader is addicted to TikTok.
00:29:23.120 And they're all doing these dance videos back and forth and back and forth and back and forth.
00:29:27.360 I will tell you, Catherine is one hell of a lobbyist.
00:29:31.340 She visited a little bit with Trump, but she didn't really get the chance to lobby her.
00:29:34.980 She just said hello, and she said hello to Melania and Elon, too.
00:29:39.100 But she didn't get the chance to do the lobbying she wanted to do.
00:29:43.380 There is a very real possibility, however, that TikTok is banned on January 20th and Trump undoes the ban on – TikTok's banned on January 19th and Trump undoes it on January 20th.
00:29:57.200 It is not clear.
00:29:58.320 He has not been explicit about what he's going to do, and I don't know what he's going to do on that.
00:30:02.940 I hope – the purpose of the ban is not to ban TikTok.
00:30:07.160 It is to force China to sell TikTok.
00:30:10.180 I hope that's the outcome, but I genuinely don't know what happens here.
00:30:14.080 It's going to be interesting.
00:30:14.960 We'll keep covering it.
00:30:15.760 I want to move to the other big news, and that is I never thought I'd be saying these three things together.
00:30:21.420 Greenland, Canada, and the Panama Canal all have something in common right now.
00:30:27.540 They are the focal point of a grand debate and conversation about moving forward on big issues with Donald Trump.
00:30:37.680 Trump has talked about, hey, Canada, we can lower your taxes.
00:30:40.540 We'll give you safety and protection from Russia.
00:30:43.240 You guys aren't doing that great right now.
00:30:45.280 Maybe you should become part of America.
00:30:47.220 He also has made these conversations about Greenland.
00:30:50.840 Maybe we should, you know, have Greenland come into America, and we could work a deal.
00:30:56.480 And then Donald Trump also called out Panama, as he described it, for selling out to China and then still asking the U.S. for money for repairs.
00:31:06.920 Senator, I love these conversations.
00:31:09.460 I think this is exactly what a president should do.
00:31:12.720 Start grand debates on issues that have been, you know, off – oh, you can't touch these issues.
00:31:17.520 For years they've been saying that.
00:31:18.740 Like, oh, you can't do that.
00:31:19.660 You can't talk about this.
00:31:20.700 You can't call out other countries for taking advantage of us.
00:31:23.520 And when you find out that Panama's charging more for our boats to come through than other countries, that obviously seems incredibly unfair.
00:31:31.100 I love this.
00:31:32.740 Well, listen, I agree.
00:31:33.980 I think these are incredibly important topics.
00:31:36.940 And I don't think they're all the same.
00:31:38.940 So in my view, Canada, Panama, and Greenland all exist on a continuum.
00:31:46.460 And I think his comments about the three are very, very different and should be understood differently.
00:31:52.400 Let's start with Canada.
00:31:54.080 Canada, I think he's just trolling Canada.
00:31:56.420 I think – is Canada going to become a state?
00:31:59.980 No.
00:32:00.380 I do not believe that is going to happen.
00:32:01.980 But he said this initially when he was having dinner with Justin Trudeau down at Mar-a-Lago.
00:32:09.320 And he basically – he said, you know, why doesn't Canada become a state?
00:32:13.420 You could become a governor.
00:32:14.640 And I think he was just trolling the guy.
00:32:17.220 I would have paid money to be sitting at that table when Trump said that.
00:32:22.260 The expression on Trudeau's face.
00:32:24.680 I mean he basically looks at him and goes, why are you even a country?
00:32:27.680 Like, why are you possibly here?
00:32:30.580 You know, it reminded me, you know, way back in the 2016 presidential debates where we were all standing on stage and he looks over at Rand Paul and he's like, why the hell are you even on this stage?
00:32:41.060 You don't belong on this stage.
00:32:42.240 And it was – look, it's classic Trump.
00:32:44.240 It was just trolling.
00:32:46.660 And to be clear, this may be the most consequential troll in history.
00:32:51.620 His comment and public ridicule of Trudeau and saying that Canada should become a state, it literally toppled Justin Trudeau.
00:33:03.280 He announced this week he is resigning as prime minister and it is entirely Trump.
00:33:08.580 Look, he was already in a weak position and he was already unpopular.
00:33:11.820 But Trump, just utterly humiliating him, literally knocked him out of his role as the head of the government of Canada.
00:33:22.820 That is an epic troll.
00:33:26.040 It also, by the way, inspired, I think, the people in Canada to say, we can do better than this guy.
00:33:32.460 We don't have to be stuck with him and we can get conservatives back in charge and hold the left accountable for what they did.
00:33:40.460 A lot of this started with the truckers movement and the overreach there and then him basically saying, if you don't do what I tell you to do, I'm going to come arrest you and invoke emergency powers.
00:33:51.080 That is all coming back to haunt the liberals, not just Trudeau, but the liberals that are in the government.
00:33:57.000 Well, and listen, Trudeau has been rampantly oppressive.
00:34:01.820 The trucker convoy was an amazing and powerful moment and Trudeau responded just with brute force.
00:34:08.000 Trudeau has been an absolute totalitarian when it comes to free speech, going after Jordan Peterson and others being willing to just use government power to silence anyone he disagrees with.
00:34:21.120 And I think this is those chickens coming home to roost.
00:34:24.840 But in terms of the comments, I think the Canada comments are a troll.
00:34:29.480 I think the Greenland comments are something very different.
00:34:33.500 I think the United States acquiring Greenland is a very, very good idea.
00:34:39.480 To be clear, Trump talked about this his first term in office.
00:34:42.840 And at the time, a lot of people, particularly the media, dismissed it.
00:34:45.800 They said, oh, it's Trump talking.
00:34:47.020 It's just some crazy idea.
00:34:48.300 But I'll tell you, acquiring Greenland has enormous advantages to the United States.
00:34:54.660 Number one, Greenland's location on the Arctic is incredibly important from a national security and defense perspective.
00:35:04.300 If you look at the Arctic, if, God forbid, we ever get in a shooting war with Russia or China, ICBMs from Russia or China will come over the Arctic and right over where Greenland is.
00:35:16.960 Greenland is situated in an incredibly important location to defend the United States of America.
00:35:23.660 We also see the Arctic, particularly with some snowmelt, we're seeing possible trade routes that are opening up in the Arctic.
00:35:30.820 And again, Greenland is ideally located for that.
00:35:34.000 In addition, Greenland has very significant reserves of critical minerals, critical minerals that are vitally important for semiconductors, for high tech, for electronics, for defense equipment.
00:35:47.640 And so the United States acquiring Greenland, making Greenland an American territory would have very important benefits for America from both a national security perspective.
00:36:00.980 Control of the Arctic is going to be incredibly important, and Greenland has a really pivotal location.
00:36:07.480 And I think there is also a real potential that is beneficial to the people of Greenland to be in an American territory.
00:36:18.040 That brings a lot of benefits.
00:36:20.040 They are right now governed by Denmark, and many Greenlanders are not happy with Denmark.
00:36:27.340 And so, you know, it is a significant opportunity.
00:36:34.620 You're saying there is a real opportunity for this to actually become a reality.
00:36:38.320 And by the way, you look at the history of America.
00:36:40.520 You look at the Louisiana Purchase, where America bought almost half the country from France.
00:36:46.480 It was a purchase.
00:36:47.980 You look at Manhattan, where the settlers purchased Manhattan.
00:36:52.740 You look at Alaska.
00:36:53.720 Alaska was what we bought, Alaska.
00:36:57.260 And it was dismissed at the time as Seward's Folly.
00:37:00.440 It proved enormously consequential buying Alaska.
00:37:03.660 So I would put it in that broader history.
00:37:07.160 And I think now, will it definitely happen?
00:37:09.760 Of course not.
00:37:10.340 We don't know that.
00:37:12.640 You know, is Denmark, will there be some resistance there?
00:37:16.320 Absolutely.
00:37:17.400 Will the Greenlanders ultimately want to do this?
00:37:19.880 I don't know.
00:37:21.600 Is this one of those things that would come down to a vote and they would vote on it?
00:37:24.620 How does this actually work?
00:37:25.960 I mean, is there a purchase price?
00:37:27.860 I mean, explain to people the reality if this moves forward, what it looks like.
00:37:32.280 So in all likelihood, there would be a purchase price paid to Denmark because Denmark has control.
00:37:39.160 Denmark governs Greenland right now.
00:37:41.860 And so it would be a purchase price, like the Louisiana Purchase, like buying Alaska.
00:37:45.720 And there's a long history of countries buying territories, one from the other.
00:37:50.120 And so that you'd have to go and negotiate it.
00:37:54.000 We saw this week Donald Trump Jr. flew to Greenland and went there and reported back, reported back that he had a tremendous reception, that people were cheering him on, that they were wearing MAGA hats.
00:38:07.520 You know, I've heard multiple reports that the locals can't stand Denmark, that they're treated as second class citizens by the Danes.
00:38:16.540 And that, you know, if you're a young Greenlander, the opportunity to become an American, that's a big deal in terms of your future.
00:38:30.480 If Greenland becomes an American territory, the investment from the United States that goes into Greenland is suddenly very significant.
00:38:38.680 And so that could well be appealing.
00:38:42.520 Now, I would think there would be a real likelihood that you'd probably have a referendum of Greenlanders if they want to do it.
00:38:48.020 It's not clear that you would, but I think there's a reasonable chance of that.
00:38:52.280 And so you'd have both Denmark and Greenland to contend with.
00:38:55.560 But I will say, from America's perspective, there would be enormous advantages to Greenland becoming an American territory.
00:39:05.580 And I will say, just this week, interestingly enough, John Fetterman, Democrat senator from Pennsylvania, he was on Fox News.
00:39:16.160 And he brought up Greenland.
00:39:18.520 It was very interesting.
00:39:19.340 I want you to listen to what John Fetterman had to say on this topic.
00:39:23.640 Go ahead.
00:39:24.100 Like, there's a lot of talk about Greenland, for example.
00:39:27.000 And I know there's a lot of freakouts, you know, and of course I would never support taking it by force.
00:39:31.820 But I do think it's a responsible conversation if they were open to acquiring it and, you know, where they're just buying it outright.
00:39:40.060 I mean, if anyone thinks that's bonkers, it's like, well, remember the Louisiana Purchase?
00:39:44.840 I think Alaska was a pretty great deal, too.
00:39:47.740 $50 million, I think it was.
00:39:49.400 It was referred to as Seward's Folly.
00:39:53.560 And now that was Alaska now.
00:39:55.020 And so, I mean, you know, open to having all kinds of conversations as well.
00:40:00.060 And now I don't think we, it's not helpful to freak out.
00:40:03.880 But some things might work out, some may not.
00:40:06.820 But that's part of ongoing dialogue.
00:40:08.620 But he hasn't even taken office in two weeks.
00:40:11.620 And, you know, we really need to pace ourselves if we're going to freak out over every last tweet or every last conversation or press conference.
00:40:20.440 I love this demeanor there.
00:40:26.060 It's like we should be having this conversation.
00:40:28.340 There's nothing wrong with it.
00:40:29.300 Now, the conversation a lot of people listening are going to say is, Senator, what are we, $35 trillion in debt?
00:40:34.320 How can we afford to buy Greenland?
00:40:36.400 So how does the economics of that work?
00:40:39.000 Well, look, I don't know what a purchase price would be.
00:40:41.540 We'd have to see.
00:40:42.280 But I do think the mineral reserves there are significant and the national security and geopolitical advantages are significant.
00:40:50.240 And so we invest in policies that make a difference, that make America safer and make America more prosperous.
00:40:58.660 And it is certainly possible and, in fact, even likely that Greenland would do that.
00:41:03.840 Now, again, I don't know what the price would be.
00:41:06.200 It's something that would have to be pursued.
00:41:07.540 But it's interesting, since Trump started talking about this, you've seen Greenlanders talking about wanting independence, wanting to be their own country.
00:41:17.220 And from Denmark's perspective, they may be sitting there going, well, wait a second.
00:41:23.440 America could buy Greenland from us and we could get a crap ton of money.
00:41:27.520 Or Greenland could just declare their independence and they leave us and we get nothing.
00:41:31.900 And so the incentives for Denmark may have changed because Trump is bringing this up and bringing it up in a context that it's driving real conversation.
00:41:42.000 But I think we should lean in and pursue this, pursue this with Denmark and Greenland, because I think there are major advantages to the United States if we were to succeed in this.
00:41:54.620 And I think this is a this is a serious possibility.
00:41:57.400 It's a serious possibility.
00:41:59.640 All right. So so with that serious possibility, let's move to the third, you know, Panama.
00:42:05.180 Big story. Panama, the Panama Canal.
00:42:08.000 Donald Trump making it very clear we're being taken advantage of.
00:42:12.580 Well, that's right. And look, you look at Panama and the Panama Canal.
00:42:17.500 Jimmy Carter, number one, America built the Panama Canal.
00:42:20.220 We lost many American lives building it.
00:42:23.660 We invested major money building the Panama Canal.
00:42:26.620 Now, Teddy Roosevelt is one of the most significant things he did as president.
00:42:32.080 Jimmy Carter gave it away, gave it to Panama.
00:42:35.940 And it was egregious of, you know, this week is Jimmy Carter's funeral.
00:42:39.760 And when we did did our remembrance of Jimmy Carter, I tried to find positive things to say about him, not to not to speak ill of someone who had just passed.
00:42:49.580 But I will say Jimmy Carter's giving away the Panama Canal was one of the most egregious foreign policy mistakes in the history of our country.
00:42:56.800 It was horrific. It undermined the safety and security and economic vitality of America.
00:43:03.100 It made no sense. Now, can it be undone?
00:43:08.640 I don't know. I think I think the likelihood of us getting the Panama Canal back is significantly lower than the likelihood of us acquiring Greenland.
00:43:18.720 It's not nearly as low as the likelihood of Canada joining America.
00:43:23.560 As I said, I don't think that is at all possible.
00:43:26.460 I think that was purely a troll.
00:43:28.480 I think Greenland is quite possible.
00:43:30.360 And I put Panama somewhere in the middle.
00:43:31.980 And Trump's argument is is is important on this, which is which is that when when when Jimmy Carter gave it away, Panama entered into an agreement with the United States, a legal agreement.
00:43:43.400 And and and I could tell you, I and my team right now are examining the contours of that agreement to see exactly what Panama committed to.
00:43:51.340 But Trump's argument is that Panama has has broken the terms of that agreement, that they are not living up to where they are violating that agreement.
00:44:00.920 And in particular, that they have have have essentially sold significant parts of the Panama Canal to China, that Chinese companies now control both ends of the Panama Canal.
00:44:13.320 And they've ceded control to China.
00:44:15.140 That's incredibly harmful.
00:44:16.360 And Trump is also arguing that that that Panama charges American ships egregious prices and and and look, we we need to dig in more to the facts behind that.
00:44:29.600 But that is a legal argument.
00:44:31.320 I'll tell you what I think Trump is really doing is negotiating on price.
00:44:35.160 And I think the outcome of this is going to be that America gets much more favorable prices.
00:44:40.880 And it may also be a significant diminution of China's involvement in the Panama Canal.
00:44:47.040 Both of those are very likely.
00:44:48.500 But I want you to listen to what Trump had to say about Panama and Mar-a-Lago earlier today.
00:44:54.840 The deal was that, you know, they have to treat us fairly.
00:44:58.160 They don't treat us fairly.
00:44:59.180 They charge more for our ships than they charge for ships of other countries.
00:45:02.960 They charge more for our Navy than they charge for navies of other countries.
00:45:07.140 They laugh at us because they think we're stupid, but we're not stupid anymore.
00:45:12.800 So the Panama Canal is under discussion with them right now.
00:45:16.500 They violated every aspect of the agreement.
00:45:19.180 And it's they've morally violated it also.
00:45:24.060 And they want our help because it's leaking and not in good repair.
00:45:29.880 And they want us to give three billion dollars to help fix it.
00:45:32.900 And I said, well, why don't you get the money from China?
00:45:35.720 Because China is basically taking it over.
00:45:38.560 China is at both ends of the Panama Canal.
00:45:40.720 China is running the Panama Canal.
00:45:43.180 China is running the Panama Canal.
00:45:44.960 And he says they laugh at us because they think we're stupid.
00:45:47.980 We're not stupid anymore.
00:45:49.420 When you hear the basics, they're charging us more in our Navy more than others.
00:45:53.120 Now they want us to give them a bunch of money to fix the thing.
00:45:56.300 He's got points that aren't political.
00:45:58.760 They're just those are serious.
00:46:00.200 And I think we're going to see a significant change, I believe, in the conduct of Panama concerning the Panama Canal.
00:46:08.560 Will it result in the canal coming back to America?
00:46:11.100 I don't know.
00:46:12.820 That is a difficult hurdle to clear.
00:46:15.200 But I am very glad President Trump is leading in on this issue.
00:46:19.040 It's incredibly important.
00:46:20.760 And China's growing influence over the Panama Canal is just stupid.
00:46:24.760 It is unacceptable.
00:46:25.700 And that's leadership that, frankly, can you imagine in a billion years Joe Biden or Kamala Harris making these points?
00:46:35.760 You can't at all because they don't defend America.
00:46:39.240 They're celebrating.
00:46:41.500 And I'm sure they cheered on when it happened.
00:46:44.040 Jimmy Carter's giving it away to begin with.
00:46:46.580 And it's the opposite of America first, where Biden and Harris are.
00:46:52.480 It's America last.
00:46:53.800 And I'm very glad we're going to have a president that, again, puts our country first.
00:46:58.240 Don't forget, we do this show Monday, Wednesday, Friday.
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