00:04:58.340That would not be a crazy thing to say.
00:05:00.500But by the way, he doesn't admit any mistakes.
00:05:03.680And what Fauci did that was fundamentally wrong is he elevated politics above science.
00:05:10.140If he admitted we didn't know at the time, we made those decisions in hindsight, some of those decisions were right, some were wrong, that would be rational.
00:05:19.860But his position is everything we did was right.
00:06:15.980And by the way, when it came to the Wuhan lab leak, understand, Anthony Fauci personally funded the research that I believe created the COVID virus.
00:06:26.860He was desperate to cover his own ass.
00:06:29.480He was desperate to argue, no, came from a wet market.
00:06:35.840He asked Mark Zuckerberg, will Facebook suppress any allegations that this came from a Chinese government lab?
00:06:44.140And to be clear, I want you to go back.
00:06:46.560If you look at this podcast in March and April of 2020, right at the beginning of COVID, we did two different podcasts on verdict, where we laid out the evidence then early on that I thought the clear evidence was this virus escaped from a government lab.
00:07:06.200I think that is now overwhelming and it is almost indisputable as strong, but it is clearly the overwhelming way to the evidence is that it escaped from a Chinese government lab.
00:07:18.800And I think the majority of the evidence, this is not as strong, but I think it is greater than 50 percent, is that this virus was deliberately created by the Chinese government.
00:07:29.700Now, I don't think they created it because they wanted people to die.
00:07:32.820I think they were creating it because they were engaged in research and they were irresponsible and reckless.
00:07:36.880But they took viruses and they made them that they engaged in in gain of function research, which which is they made them more deadly and they made them more transmissible to humans.
00:07:49.260And then I think the virus escaped in the world faced pandemic.
00:07:53.220There's something else that's also very shocking, and that is Dr.
00:07:56.940Fauci was asked a very simple question and I'll wrap with this, but it's an important one.
00:08:22.820And it's very clear that it's saved millions of lives here and throughout the world.
00:08:28.840The Europeans have done the same studies that we have and the and the the data are incontrovertible that they save lives.
00:08:36.860Sir, and do you think the American public should listen to America's brightest and best doctors and scientists or instead listen to podcasters, conspiracy theorists and unhinged Facebook memes?
00:08:49.120You know, listening to people who you just described is going to do nothing but harm people because they will deprive themselves of lifesaving interventions, which has happened.
00:09:00.920And, you know, some have done studies.
00:09:05.000Peter Hotez has done an analysis of this and shows that in people who refuse to get vaccinated for any variety of reasons, probably responsible for an additional two to three hundred thousand deaths in this.
00:09:19.020An additional two to three hundred thousand deaths in this country.
00:09:22.300They're still shaming anyone to ask the question.
00:09:31.580And by the way, in a subsequent pod, we should play Chris Cuomo when he was called out for his lying on Ivermectin.
00:09:41.440But but but it is the corporate media crawled in bed with Anthony Fauci crawled in bed with with with with the left wing, dishonest, political, scientific, medical world.
00:09:57.300And I will say, if you look at something like covid vaccines for children, for children under six, there was zero scientific evidence to back that.
00:10:08.160I get why someone who was 80 or 90 or even someone who was 50 or 60 made the decision to get the covid vaccine, because, look, you could make a rational cost benefit analysis that we don't know everything about this vaccine.
00:10:30.020And so people who are older could make a rational decision to get the vaccine for a five or six year old.
00:10:38.160I think there was no rational decision to give a child that because the rate of fatality behind that as there was behind the six foot rule, which apparently he's admitted now.
00:11:20.600And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women, entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, politicians and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey.
00:11:30.100So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us.
00:11:33.080Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on iHeartRadio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
00:11:51.680If Trump had done what Alvin Bragg said he needed to do, the FEC would have charged him with a personal use violation with using campaign funds illegally.
00:12:03.160Clearly, the jury didn't know that because the judge didn't want him to know that.
00:12:07.460And that's why they said you can't come and testify.
00:12:57.560He leaves out the other half, which is explains why Trump shouldn't have done so.
00:13:02.320And it would have been a mistake to do it the way the prosecutor wanted him to.
00:13:05.680And he would have been charged with it.
00:13:07.100I mean, it would have been he would have been violating the law to do what Alvin Bragg is saying he should have done.
00:13:14.920Another supposed basis of unlawful means was falsification of other business records.
00:13:21.920The second of the people's theories, this is from the jury instruction, the second of the people's theories of unlawful means, which I will define for you now, is the falsification of other business records.
00:13:31.880For purposes of determining whether falsifying business records in the second degree was an unlawful means used by a conspiracy to promote or prevent election here, you may consider the bank records associated with Michael Cohen's account formation, the bank records association with Michael Cohen's wire to Keith Davidson,
00:13:47.680the invoice from investor advisory services and the 1099 misc form, the Trump organization issued to Michael Cohen.
00:13:53.860So, in other words, there are 34 counts of false business records.
00:14:20.440Like, like it is the most circular reasoning that just makes no sense.
00:14:27.020And by the way, let's go to the third one, because the third one just makes me laugh out loud.
00:14:32.700The people's third theory of unlawful means, which I will define for you now, is a violation of tax laws.
00:14:40.220Under New York State and New York City law, it is unlawful to knowingly supply or submit materially false or fraudulent information in connection with any tax return.
00:14:48.520Likewise, under federal law, it is unlawful for a person to willfully make any tax return statement or other document that is fraudulent or false as in any material matter,
00:14:56.300or that the person does not believe to be true and correct as to every material matter.
00:15:04.200Under these federal, state and local laws, such conduct is unlawful, even if it does not result in the underpayment of taxes.
00:15:12.280So, in other words, he told the jury, by the way, you can find a violation of tax laws, even if you paid, you didn't pay any less taxes, even if you didn't defraud anyone,
00:15:22.020even if you're not using it to cheat on your taxes, if you think there's something in the tax laws.
00:15:27.240And by the way, there is no person on planet Earth who understands all of the tax laws.
00:15:31.760You know, there was a book that was written years ago called Three Felonies a Day.
00:15:35.200And it argues that all of us living in this complex world commit three felonies a day between tax laws and environmental laws.
00:15:43.940If you are doing anything, if you're filling out a credit card application, an aggressive prosecutor can find three felonies a day that Ben Ferguson has committed.
00:15:52.900In this instance, that jury instruction says, well, if you can figure out, if you think there was any violation.
00:15:59.500Come up with your own theory, basically.
00:16:01.940And by the way, the violation of tax law doesn't have to have taken a penny of taxes from New York City, New York State, or the federal government.
00:16:10.300And if you think there was some amorphous violation of tax law that didn't result in any underpayment of taxes, suddenly, presto chango, these misdemeanors that we can't prosecute, the statute of limitations is extended.
00:17:13.440This is about keeping Joe Biden, the Democrats, in power because it's all they care about and they're willing to burn the justice system to the ground.
00:17:36.300Or is there a way to force this case moving forward?
00:17:39.880Now, knowing the jury instructions and what they were given and, most importantly, what they had admitted from them, does this open up any different legal pathway for the Trump team to say, OK, we need to get this seen even quicker?
00:17:54.680So it isn't, hey, we got what we wanted.
00:17:57.700We get to say you're a convicted felon all the way through Election Day.
00:18:25.740I think he's willing to abuse his power.
00:18:27.200But I will wager large sums of money, regardless of what he sentences him to, jail time or something else, that if there is incarceration, he will suspend it pending appeal.
00:18:40.500I think that I could see the judge at sentencing saying, I sentence you to four years in jail.
00:18:48.900I do think you've got four years for each of these 34 counts is the maximum amount.
00:18:54.020Typically, they would run concurrently, which means they would all run at the same time.
00:18:59.640You could run them consecutively, which is how you get over 100 years.
00:19:03.300In any ordinary circumstance, number one, a judge of Trump's age that does not have any prior offenses in New York would never serve a day of jail time in any other case.
00:19:12.440I mean, look, you can physically assault someone.
00:19:14.920You can repeatedly, violently beat people up.
00:19:17.840You can engage in all sorts of crimes and not serve jail time in New York.
00:19:22.340That being said, I think it's entirely possible this judge is enough of a partisan to say, you're the president.
00:19:35.460That would be the crowning moment of his life to utter those words.
00:19:39.620It'd also be useful politically because then not only can you say he's a convicted felon, but then you can say, do you want a guy going to the White House that's about to go to jail?
00:19:47.720Yeah. So what I do not think he will do is sentence him to jail and say, take him into custody and put him there right now.
00:19:57.700But I think if he did that, it would prompt an immediate emergency appeal and he would get reversed.
00:20:03.460I assume this guy is smart enough to know that he doesn't want to get reversed and he especially does not want to get reversed before Election Day.
00:20:13.160He's engaged in politics. So he's not going to do something, I think, that will prompt an immediate reversal because that undermines the political value of the charade that he's conducting.
00:20:25.140So if the sentence is imprisonment or it could be home confinement, if the sentence is something like that, I think he'll suspend it pending the resolution of the appeal.
00:20:38.540In that case, I think the odds are quite high.
00:20:41.580This appeal will have to go through the New York state system first.
00:20:45.380We talked about in Friday's pod. And by the way, you should go back and listen to Friday's pod.
00:20:50.220We did Friday's pod late Thursday night.
00:20:53.160We did it on the road as I was driving from Dallas to Houston.
00:20:56.060It was right after the verdict came down and it was analyzing the next steps and in much greater detail than we have in this pod.
00:21:04.440And so you ought to listen to the two pods together.
00:21:06.520But the ordinary course of appeal would be to appeal from the trial court to the intermediate appellate court in New York in the state court system.
00:21:15.420And then if you lose in the intermediate appellate court to appeal to the top appellate court in New York called the New York Court of Appeals.
00:21:23.100And then finally, if you lose there, then you could appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.
00:21:27.660That's normally how a criminal case would proceed.
00:21:30.040It is possible you can file an extraordinary writ to ask the U.S. Supreme Court to intervene right now.
00:22:37.160If they were to deny the extraordinary writ, I suspect you would have some justices write and say something like,
00:22:44.260there are lots of reasons to be concerned here, but right now the sentence is suspended.
00:22:48.660The verdict can be overturned on appeal, and so we'll allow the state proceedings to go forward.
00:22:56.180If there was an order of immediate incarceration, it would force their hands.
00:23:01.620I think the whole game here from the D.A. and from the judge is the political advantage not actually sending Trump to jail.
00:23:10.200They know these jury instructions will never survive an appeal.
00:23:15.280If you had anything resembling fairness in the judicial system, the New York courts of appeals should reverse it.
00:23:21.820I got to say, based on the absolute disgrace we just saw play out, I have no confidence of that.
00:23:27.920The New York justice system is, I suspect, forever a global laughingstock.
00:23:33.480And you put this on top of the prior civil case where they took a half billion dollars, they're trying to take a half billion dollars from Trump.
00:23:39.620The combination, the message New York has said, is if we don't like you, if you are politically disfavored, welcome to communist Cuba.
00:23:48.160We will treat you the same and you have the same rights as you would have locked in a gulag.
00:23:54.040As before, if you want to hear the rest of this conversation on this topic, you can go back and download the podcast from early this week to hear the entire thing.
00:24:02.700Canadian women are looking for more, more out of themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world around them.
00:24:09.860And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast.
00:24:50.180I said I always root for the president of the United States of America on moments like this, on todays like this, to have an amazing speech.
00:24:59.560And I root for the president always, my president, always when it comes to national security issues, especially and when it comes to honoring our men and women in uniform.
00:25:11.540And the president gave a speech and I was watching it with the best of intentions.
00:25:22.220But there were some moments in that speech that that caught me a little bit by surprise.
00:25:27.960And I wanted to know your thoughts on this.
00:25:30.840There was a couple points where Biden tried to invoke Ukraine and he also said this, which the media even picked up on.
00:25:42.820Here's what he had to say during the speech about democracy in America.
00:25:47.420Now the question for us is, in our hour of trial, will we do ours?
00:25:51.760We're living in a time when democracy is more at risk across the world than at any point since the end of World War II, since these beaches were stormed in 1944.
00:26:04.580Now we have to ask ourselves, will we stand against tyranny, against evil, against crushing brutality of the iron fist?
00:26:40.960You know, I'm going to say this is an interesting example of having a different reaction to something when you're physically there.
00:26:48.780versus watching it on TV or watching it on Twitter.
00:26:53.280Look, I know on the way after the speech, like looking at Twitter and people's reactions, I know people are upset that they view Biden as politicizing it.
00:27:07.220I've got to say it didn't feel that political being there in person.
00:27:11.820And maybe it's because, frankly, you're paying attention to the veterans and the heroes you're in front of.
00:27:18.780And it's so dominated things that, you know, what Biden said, I barely paid attention to it.
00:27:25.620Like, it was not, it wasn't the dominant event of the day.
00:29:15.920He did an interview from Normandy with the backdrop behind him of, of many of the, the heroes and, and the crosses of those, of those tombstones of somebody that lost their lives.
00:29:27.580He had this to say, marking the 80th anniversary of, of, of D-Day.
00:29:34.740And joining us now from Normandy, the United States Secretary of State, Anthony Blinken.
00:29:40.480Thank you very much for joining us here on Morning Joe.
00:29:43.820Uh, what should our allies and enemies, uh, take away from the president's speech this morning in Normandy?
00:29:51.760The same resolve that the extraordinary men and women that we're celebrating today showed then, he's showing now.
00:30:01.180Uh, because they did what they did, uh, we're here today.
00:30:04.700And we not, not only have responsibility to honor what they did, but the real way to honor it is to make sure that we're good in our time, in our moment, in standing up to the challenges that we face.
00:30:14.740And one of those, uh, we see now is aggression from Russia, not only against Ukraine, but against the very principles at the heart of the international system that were put in place after World War II to try to make sure that we didn't have another World War, that we maintain peace and security.
00:30:29.540And president's determined to make sure we're standing up today just as they stood up 80 years ago.
00:30:35.420And the president talked about Ukraine, uh, as one of the current challenges, uh, that exemplified the, um, fight against dark forces that never fade.
00:30:45.840Um, and he made another, yet another commitment.
00:30:50.540He reinforced the commitment to Ukraine.
00:30:54.260Um, and by the way, if I may, we're watching live pictures right now of president Biden and the first lady walking through the cemetery in Normandy, France.
00:31:07.280And as we look at these pictures, uh, which really symbolize the losses 80 years ago on D day and talk about the losses that Ukraine is incurring right now from the same type of aggression.
00:31:22.580Um, um, the president did say that the support for Ukraine would continue, that we will be there for Ukraine.
00:31:31.780How does that, how does that parallel with some of the reticence we have seen in Washington that actually delayed the much needed aid Ukraine needed to push back against Russian aggression?
00:31:45.480Well, you know, Mika, that aid should have gotten there a long time ago, but I'm glad it's there now and it's making a difference.
00:31:52.960Every single day we're pushing it out to the front lines, making sure the Ukrainians who need it against this Russian aggression have it, uh, and can use it.
00:31:59.660But, you know, there's a really powerful parallel too, between what we're commemorating today and what we're doing now.
00:32:05.800Um, back then it wasn't just the United States.
00:32:08.420Here in Normandy, 12 countries came together, 160,000 men coming to this beach, coming to start the final fight that ultimately 11 months later led to victory in World War II.
00:32:19.080Uh, in Ukraine, we have more than 50 countries standing up, standing together, making sure that Ukraine has what it needs to defend itself and to push back this aggression.
00:32:26.720And that's the power of our alliances.
00:32:28.780And that's the biggest difference maker we have in the world.
00:32:31.380Our adversaries, our competitors, they don't have the same kind of voluntary alliances.
00:32:35.060Yeah, sometimes they coerce countries into helping them, or maybe they pay them off.
00:32:38.640Here, we have country after country that volunteers to stand together, uh, stand together in defense of principles that we share and no need defending.