Verdict with Ted Cruz - How Democrats Abandoned Black & Hispanic Communities： One-on-One with Dallas Mayor Eric Johnson

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00:01:23.060 Welcome to this verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you

00:01:27.080 on a really fun live studio audience event, a retreat weekend.

00:01:33.240 Senator, and you brought a friend with you as well

00:01:35.860 who is going to be our special guest today.

00:01:38.360 Well, I am incredibly proud to welcome onto the Verdict podcast

00:01:42.620 a good friend of mine, the 60th mayor of the city of Dallas,

00:01:46.720 the current sitting mayor, Eric Johnson.

00:01:49.520 And I want to, Eric, welcome.

00:01:51.480 Thank you so much.

00:01:53.040 I'm glad to be here, Senator.

00:01:54.860 Thanks for having me.

00:01:57.940 Now, I want to tell our podcast listeners some of Eric's background

00:02:01.580 because many of you may know him, but some of you may not.

00:02:05.320 Eric is the current mayor of Dallas.

00:02:09.060 Eric was, he went to Harvard College.

00:02:12.360 I did.

00:02:12.740 He went to University of Pennsylvania Law School.

00:02:16.760 He got a master's from my alma mater, Princeton.

00:02:20.100 That's true.

00:02:21.280 He was elected to the Texas state legislature,

00:02:25.940 and he was an elected Democrat in the state legislature.

00:02:29.920 And Eric is African American.

00:02:31.640 I am.

00:02:32.120 It's an audio show, so one has to...

00:02:37.960 It's true.

00:02:38.340 It's true.

00:02:38.700 We've got to paint the picture.

00:02:40.660 And then Eric was elected mayor of the city of Dallas,

00:02:44.980 again as a Democrat.

00:02:46.840 And then he was just recently re-elected mayor of the city of Dallas.

00:02:50.580 He was re-elected with 93% of the vote in the city of Dallas.

00:02:56.640 Technically 98.7, but I'll take 93.

00:03:00.300 We'll take 93.

00:03:01.720 And then after his re-election,

00:03:05.280 Eric announced to the city of Dallas and the world

00:03:07.760 that he was switching parties,

00:03:09.920 and he left the Democrat Party, and he became a Republican.

00:03:12.920 And it was a decision that those of us who knew him

00:03:16.920 and had worked with him, I have to say,

00:03:18.980 I was not shocked or surprised,

00:03:21.940 but it did shock and surprise a lot of people.

00:03:24.380 And so Eric is, I think, a very important leader in Texas

00:03:29.040 and a very important leader in the country.

00:03:31.600 And so Eric, I appreciate your coming and joining us this evening

00:03:35.000 and being a guest on Verdict.

00:03:36.400 I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

00:03:37.500 Thank you so much.

00:03:38.180 This is a real honor to be here.

00:03:39.560 Thank you for the invitation.

00:03:41.420 And it's great to see all of you.

00:03:43.900 All right.

00:03:44.460 So you go to the Texas State Legislature.

00:03:46.940 You get elected mayor of Dallas.

00:03:48.520 You get re-elected mayor of Dallas.

00:03:50.220 Now this entire time, you've been an elected Democrat.

00:03:52.980 And as an elected Democrat, there's an ecosphere around you.

00:03:57.160 You've got donors.

00:03:58.080 You've got volunteers.

00:03:59.040 You've got supporters.

00:04:02.140 Walk us through your decision-making,

00:04:05.200 because switching parties is a big deal.

00:04:07.640 And I know you didn't make that decision lightly.

00:04:10.720 So what led you to change parties?

00:04:13.820 Yeah.

00:04:14.020 And, you know, I don't know how deep we can dive into this.

00:04:20.080 The joy of a podcast is we can go as deep as you want.

00:04:23.520 And that's actually what's fun,

00:04:25.320 that we're not on TV with a six-minute soundbite.

00:04:27.540 We can actually talk about what's really going on.

00:04:29.760 That's exactly what I wanted to know,

00:04:31.320 because unfortunately, because of the structure of the traditional media,

00:04:36.680 you really have to sort of hit that question quick and then get out of it.

00:04:41.700 And you don't really get to give a full answer to that,

00:04:44.660 because it's way more complicated than, you know,

00:04:47.840 there was this one thing that happened, and I just said, I'm out of here.

00:04:50.560 It's an evolution for me in just kind of coming to accept who I have always been

00:05:01.500 and why I've struggled as a Democrat the whole time.

00:05:04.440 Was it the issues that made you think about becoming a Republican?

00:05:08.960 The issues were a manifestation,

00:05:14.440 a policy manifestation of problems I had been having with the Democratic Party

00:05:18.900 because of who I am as a person for a long time.

00:05:21.840 So I'll give you some idea of what I'm talking about.

00:05:25.060 I was born in West Dallas,

00:05:28.440 very poor community to working-class parents who never went to college,

00:05:33.580 but, you know, got married right out of high school,

00:05:36.200 still married to this day, raised four of us.

00:05:40.580 And I was raised in a community that was very,

00:05:44.000 and in a family that was very, very faith-oriented.

00:05:47.460 The church was hugely important to us.

00:05:49.980 I mean, I grew up, I spent more time in church than really any place else.

00:05:53.520 I mean, we'd go to church Sunday morning,

00:05:56.520 stay almost all day,

00:05:58.020 go home for just a couple hours and come back for Sunday evening.

00:06:00.740 We'd go to Bible class on Wednesday.

00:06:03.700 We'd have, you know,

00:06:05.060 I wasn't in the choir because I couldn't sing,

00:06:06.860 but, you know, we had song practice and things like that.

00:06:10.360 So I spent a lot of time in the church,

00:06:13.040 spent a lot of time with grandparents

00:06:16.100 who were very, very, very about the Church of Christ,

00:06:20.740 and that's how, that's the tradition I was raised in.

00:06:23.940 And so we were sort of taught,

00:06:29.000 and it was separate and apart from anything political.

00:06:31.040 My family wasn't political at all.

00:06:32.520 No politicians in the family.

00:06:34.180 I'm not even sure we had a real awareness

00:06:35.680 of what was going on around us politically,

00:06:38.140 but a very strong sense of just right, wrong.

00:06:43.520 You know, this is how you treat people.

00:06:45.320 This is how you behave.

00:06:47.380 You follow the law.

00:06:49.160 You obey the law.

00:06:50.100 You work hard.

00:06:51.360 You, you know, an honest day's work, honest day's pay.

00:06:54.180 That just sort of, that was just always in the background.

00:06:57.060 And so I think I was always politically

00:07:03.480 in a weird posture with the Democratic Party

00:07:07.520 because at its core,

00:07:09.740 and I didn't understand this at the very beginning,

00:07:12.940 because, and I hope we can actually get to this

00:07:15.120 and talk about this,

00:07:16.220 there are some, you sort of inherit the Democratic Party

00:07:19.000 as a cultural heirloom

00:07:20.580 when you're African American in this country.

00:07:22.460 It sort of gets handed to you as part of who you are.

00:07:27.140 I probably had more phone calls.

00:07:29.220 I know I had.

00:07:30.280 I had more phone calls with people distraught

00:07:33.660 about this party switch

00:07:35.280 than I ever would have gotten

00:07:36.860 if I had told people

00:07:37.940 that I was actually leaving the church.

00:07:40.440 There's no question about it.

00:07:41.960 Wow.

00:07:42.200 There's no doubt about it.

00:07:43.240 I will say that loudly and on the record.

00:07:47.120 I had more panicked phone calls

00:07:49.560 from people genuinely concerned

00:07:51.800 about what I was doing

00:07:53.080 and how I could do this

00:07:55.340 than I would have gotten

00:07:56.960 if I had said,

00:07:57.580 I just don't think I'm into this Jesus thing anymore.

00:07:59.420 I just don't think I'm not a Baptist

00:08:00.480 or I'm not a church of Christ.

00:08:01.640 I don't think I would have had

00:08:03.100 anywhere near the same reaction.

00:08:04.900 It's that cultural.

00:08:07.080 How intense was that?

00:08:08.480 Was it family?

00:08:09.600 Was it friends?

00:08:10.580 Was it just colleagues?

00:08:11.460 It was a lot of consternation.

00:08:15.820 The family and friends was well-meaning.

00:08:18.560 But I think a lot of other folks,

00:08:20.220 it was just, you know,

00:08:21.820 we have to take this guy down now.

00:08:24.240 And it got to be pretty quickly

00:08:26.140 the traditional standard partisan warfare stuff.

00:08:30.520 But kind of going back to what I was,

00:08:32.100 and I said I wonder how deep we could go

00:08:33.540 because this is actually pretty,

00:08:35.060 I haven't had a chance to talk about this

00:08:36.400 with anybody.

00:08:37.940 The fit was almost in some ways inevitable.

00:08:42.720 It was going to,

00:08:44.460 there was going to be a problem.

00:08:45.740 Because at the Democratic Party's core,

00:08:47.280 what I was saying,

00:08:48.540 is a belief

00:08:49.520 that how things turn out for you

00:08:52.500 in this country

00:08:53.460 are largely determined by things

00:08:56.040 that are outside of your control.

00:08:57.600 The race you're born,

00:08:59.060 the neighborhood you're born in,

00:09:00.400 it just kind of,

00:09:01.760 it excuses away your failures

00:09:03.640 and it excuses away your successes

00:09:05.340 to something that's out of your control.

00:09:07.320 If you're successful

00:09:08.240 and you're white and male,

00:09:10.640 it's because of course you are.

00:09:12.480 And if you're unsuccessful

00:09:13.780 as an African American,

00:09:14.800 it's well,

00:09:15.080 the deck was stacked against you.

00:09:17.060 And I just wasn't a person

00:09:19.360 who ever believed that.

00:09:21.080 And that wasn't how I was raised

00:09:22.480 and that's not how I was taught.

00:09:23.520 But it was the overarching

00:09:24.740 political philosophy of my party.

00:09:27.440 And there was always just that tension

00:09:28.880 between wanting to tell people,

00:09:31.600 hey, this actually is a country

00:09:32.740 where anything you want to do,

00:09:35.340 you can do

00:09:36.140 and I'm living proof of it

00:09:37.640 because at every turn,

00:09:40.860 if I put the work in,

00:09:42.920 I was told repeatedly

00:09:45.400 over and over

00:09:46.160 by people who didn't look like me,

00:09:47.720 who didn't come from my community,

00:09:49.320 we're proud of you

00:09:50.180 and we'd like to give you

00:09:51.020 more opportunity.

00:09:52.080 I wasn't having doors slammed

00:09:53.640 in my face the harder I pushed.

00:09:55.500 I was having more of them given to me.

00:09:57.600 So the story of my life

00:10:00.240 and then the rhetoric

00:10:01.520 that my party wanted me

00:10:02.820 to put out there

00:10:03.620 as the justification

00:10:04.560 for what we were doing politically

00:10:06.180 just never really matched.

00:10:09.400 Well, I've always thought

00:10:10.620 one of the most important differences

00:10:12.540 between the parties

00:10:13.560 is that the Republican Party

00:10:15.740 believes in individual responsibility

00:10:18.420 and believes in merit

00:10:19.620 and a meritocracy.

00:10:21.980 Now, that's not to say

00:10:22.860 that there aren't things

00:10:25.020 that are unfair,

00:10:25.700 but in the reason

00:10:28.480 people come from

00:10:29.280 all over the world

00:10:29.900 to America

00:10:30.500 is there's no country on earth

00:10:32.320 where people can achieve

00:10:34.420 their dreams

00:10:35.320 the way you can here

00:10:36.500 and, you know,

00:10:37.680 and I do think

00:10:38.840 a lot of the...

00:10:39.920 A lot of the Democrat Party

00:10:46.400 is their...

00:10:48.000 The ideology

00:10:48.780 in today's Democrat Party

00:10:50.240 is about eliminating

00:10:52.260 individual responsibility

00:10:53.520 and eliminating merit

00:10:54.620 and I think about

00:10:55.560 you're a black man,

00:10:57.240 I'm an Hispanic man,

00:10:58.220 I think about

00:10:58.860 what my father said to me

00:11:00.220 when I was a kid

00:11:00.900 about racism

00:11:02.460 and my dad,

00:11:04.900 you know,

00:11:05.080 as you know,

00:11:05.460 he came from Cuba

00:11:06.140 as an immigrant

00:11:06.620 and my dad said

00:11:07.580 when he came out

00:11:08.820 of University of Texas

00:11:10.060 in 1961

00:11:10.960 and my father said,

00:11:12.140 look,

00:11:12.320 I'm obviously an immigrant.

00:11:14.240 My father had had

00:11:15.600 and still has

00:11:16.360 a very heavy Spanish accent,

00:11:17.820 you know my dad,

00:11:18.940 and he said,

00:11:19.960 listen,

00:11:20.300 if I'm applying for a job

00:11:21.740 and I'm applying

00:11:22.980 against an American

00:11:24.140 and we're equally qualified,

00:11:27.040 my dad said,

00:11:27.740 you know what?

00:11:28.920 They'll hire the American.

00:11:30.500 Now, my father

00:11:31.040 wasn't particularly

00:11:31.740 outraged at that.

00:11:32.660 He said,

00:11:33.000 you know what?

00:11:33.400 In Cuba,

00:11:33.800 they'd hire me.

00:11:35.080 That's just kind of

00:11:35.740 human nature.

00:11:36.340 That's the way

00:11:37.000 people often behave

00:11:38.280 and my father's answer

00:11:40.320 to that,

00:11:41.420 he said,

00:11:41.860 I'm just going to be

00:11:42.740 three times as good

00:11:44.500 as the other guy.

00:11:45.600 I'll make it

00:11:46.140 so you'd have to be

00:11:47.020 a blithering idiot

00:11:48.420 to hire the other guy

00:11:50.720 and when you take

00:11:53.740 individual responsibility,

00:11:55.300 and it's not to say

00:11:56.000 racism doesn't exist.

00:11:57.140 Racism absolutely exists,

00:11:58.980 but how you respond

00:12:00.840 in the face of adversity

00:12:02.460 and I think

00:12:04.000 the principle

00:12:05.420 of work harder,

00:12:08.160 be better,

00:12:08.900 be more excellent,

00:12:10.780 I think that is a path

00:12:12.760 that every one of us,

00:12:14.380 think about what you

00:12:15.120 teach your kids.

00:12:16.380 That's,

00:12:16.880 if you don't mind,

00:12:17.660 please,

00:12:17.960 I'll jump in here

00:12:19.320 and say this

00:12:20.160 because there's so much

00:12:21.460 that I could say

00:12:22.420 about this

00:12:22.920 and again,

00:12:24.840 this is the slow burn

00:12:26.060 over a career,

00:12:27.840 but there's the specific

00:12:29.460 policy things

00:12:30.120 that came about

00:12:31.000 as the mayor

00:12:31.900 that made this decision,

00:12:33.500 something that needed

00:12:34.100 to happen

00:12:34.800 and something that became

00:12:36.420 much more urgent

00:12:38.100 for me,

00:12:40.320 but while we're talking

00:12:41.860 about sort of

00:12:42.180 the underpinnings of this

00:12:43.260 and you talk about

00:12:44.680 what you teach

00:12:45.220 your children,

00:12:46.500 that's really kind of

00:12:47.580 the point

00:12:48.120 in terms of

00:12:49.620 the problem

00:12:51.320 that I have

00:12:52.240 with the Democratic Party's

00:12:53.240 philosophy

00:12:53.800 on this particular issue

00:12:55.480 is you have to decide

00:12:57.320 one way or the other

00:12:58.300 what you're going to tell

00:12:59.540 a generation

00:13:00.620 of African American kids

00:13:02.540 or kids who are growing up

00:13:03.520 in tough circumstances.

00:13:04.380 Are you going to tell them

00:13:05.520 that your country

00:13:06.720 doesn't work for you,

00:13:08.200 doesn't really matter

00:13:09.040 what you do,

00:13:09.740 it doesn't work for you,

00:13:10.680 it's not built for you,

00:13:11.700 it's not designed for you,

00:13:12.780 the system is stacked

00:13:13.520 against you

00:13:14.140 and just hope

00:13:15.300 that they don't

00:13:16.280 turn to crime

00:13:17.860 or turn to other things

00:13:18.940 because you've told them

00:13:20.080 that essentially

00:13:20.620 that's fine,

00:13:21.860 that's okay

00:13:22.440 because there's no way

00:13:24.680 you could do

00:13:25.340 the things you'd like

00:13:26.180 to do legitimately.

00:13:28.160 You can't get

00:13:28.920 where you want to go

00:13:29.860 legitimately anyway,

00:13:30.940 the deck's stacked

00:13:31.520 against you

00:13:31.980 or do you want

00:13:32.700 to tell them the truth

00:13:33.680 which is the system

00:13:36.400 that we have

00:13:37.120 is the best on earth

00:13:38.640 for translating people's

00:13:40.520 hard work and effort

00:13:41.780 into tangible increases

00:13:45.620 and improvements

00:13:46.220 in their life circumstances.

00:13:48.280 It just is.

00:13:49.300 And I've told my liberal friends

00:13:51.660 for many years,

00:13:52.680 even before I switched parties,

00:13:54.240 I said,

00:13:54.720 for the ones who go around

00:13:55.820 sort of bashing the country,

00:13:57.760 I say,

00:13:58.220 guys,

00:13:59.220 if there was a place

00:14:00.300 on earth

00:14:00.840 where they did it better,

00:14:02.880 where they really did

00:14:03.800 convert your effort

00:14:04.760 and your work

00:14:06.040 into benefits better,

00:14:09.300 why don't you live

00:14:10.440 and raise your,

00:14:11.020 don't you owe it

00:14:11.880 to your children

00:14:12.400 to raise them there

00:14:13.300 if you really believe

00:14:14.260 there's a place

00:14:14.680 that's doing it better

00:14:15.400 and they don't believe that.

00:14:17.400 It's rhetoric

00:14:18.160 but it's rhetoric

00:14:19.760 with a purpose

00:14:20.400 and this is kind of where

00:14:22.100 being a part of the party

00:14:24.640 for so long

00:14:25.420 and understanding

00:14:26.360 sort of the,

00:14:27.100 you know,

00:14:27.520 the thought behind

00:14:28.880 the strategy,

00:14:29.580 really,

00:14:30.000 it's strategy.

00:14:30.840 how do you convince

00:14:34.360 large swaths of people,

00:14:36.140 large groups

00:14:36.700 that are just really

00:14:37.400 holding themselves together

00:14:38.400 by identity politics

00:14:40.920 and race

00:14:41.820 or how do you convince them

00:14:43.660 to give their loyalty

00:14:45.440 so completely

00:14:46.200 to a political party

00:14:47.200 if you can't convince them first

00:14:48.960 that they really need

00:14:50.940 this political party

00:14:51.940 to help them overcome

00:14:53.120 this,

00:14:53.920 these horrible flaws

00:14:56.180 in this system.

00:14:57.780 So basically,

00:14:58.640 there's a...

00:14:59.040 Well, the Democrat party

00:14:59.720 I think is vested

00:15:01.720 in selling dependency.

00:15:03.580 Correct.

00:15:04.420 And there's no question

00:15:05.400 that that's true.

00:15:06.080 He used also in my family,

00:15:08.240 you know,

00:15:08.440 when my dad in 1957,

00:15:11.000 when he showed up

00:15:11.900 in Austin, Texas,

00:15:12.740 he couldn't speak English

00:15:13.720 and so the first job

00:15:15.280 he had was washing dishes

00:15:16.580 and he made 50 cents an hour

00:15:18.580 and I've said a lot of times,

00:15:20.980 thank God

00:15:21.820 some well-meaning liberal

00:15:23.880 didn't come along

00:15:24.740 and put his arm around him

00:15:25.760 and say,

00:15:26.000 Raphael,

00:15:26.420 let me take care of you.

00:15:27.780 Let me give you

00:15:28.480 a government check.

00:15:29.460 Let me make you dependent

00:15:30.440 on the government.

00:15:31.660 You don't need to work anymore.

00:15:32.940 You don't need to be

00:15:33.720 responsible for your life.

00:15:34.960 I'm going to take care of you.

00:15:36.520 That would have been

00:15:37.560 utterly destructive.

00:15:39.300 It would have been

00:15:39.560 the worst thing

00:15:40.240 you could have done to him.

00:15:41.940 And it's, you know,

00:15:43.560 we're talking about

00:15:44.700 what you teach your kids.

00:15:45.780 You know, you think about it.

00:15:46.760 If you have a kid

00:15:47.780 in kindergarten or first grade

00:15:49.420 who's struggling with math,

00:15:51.080 how many of us

00:15:51.960 will do your kid's homework?

00:15:53.680 None of us will

00:15:54.380 because doing your kid's homework

00:15:56.420 is not helping the kid.

00:15:58.080 Now, you may work with the kid.

00:16:00.420 You may get a tutor with the kid.

00:16:01.640 You may walk through

00:16:02.660 and say what you're having problems with.

00:16:04.040 But you understand,

00:16:05.820 you know, you and I

00:16:06.320 are both fathers.

00:16:08.000 Ben, you're a father.

00:16:09.100 You understand

00:16:09.720 when you're raising your kids,

00:16:11.960 they need to learn those skills.

00:16:13.640 And if someone else

00:16:14.320 does it for them,

00:16:15.280 it doesn't help our children.

00:16:17.900 That same thing is true

00:16:19.080 for all of us.

00:16:20.240 It's absolutely true.

00:16:21.380 I had a conversation

00:16:23.080 with one of your colleagues,

00:16:25.680 Senator Scott,

00:16:26.500 when he stopped

00:16:27.700 through Dallas

00:16:28.860 a few months ago.

00:16:30.240 and we had a private lunch

00:16:33.520 and one of the things

00:16:35.520 that we talked about

00:16:36.980 and I said to him

00:16:38.260 that resonated with him

00:16:39.560 because he also, you know,

00:16:40.940 believes this is

00:16:43.020 absolutely the case.

00:16:44.920 And it's right on...

00:16:45.620 Tim's a great guy.

00:16:46.520 It's right in line

00:16:47.500 with what we're talking about

00:16:49.240 right now.

00:16:50.060 I said,

00:16:51.080 Tim,

00:16:51.480 do you agree

00:16:53.160 that there's really

00:16:54.540 nobody

00:16:55.520 in our community

00:16:57.240 who's achieved

00:16:58.360 a high degree of success

00:17:00.060 who actually did it

00:17:01.600 using anything

00:17:02.360 other than conservative principles

00:17:03.900 as applied to their life?

00:17:05.660 I go,

00:17:06.060 but why do so many of us

00:17:07.280 when we get

00:17:08.660 to that level of success

00:17:10.020 with these principles

00:17:10.920 pretend

00:17:11.760 like it's something else

00:17:13.680 that got us there?

00:17:15.080 It was

00:17:15.640 working hard,

00:17:17.540 staying out of trouble,

00:17:19.060 persevering when other people

00:17:20.100 had given up,

00:17:21.440 and basically

00:17:22.420 playing by the rules

00:17:24.200 as we called it

00:17:25.380 that got you there.

00:17:26.740 But you get there

00:17:28.040 and then you

00:17:28.740 pretend like, you know,

00:17:30.520 those aren't

00:17:31.000 essential values

00:17:32.200 to success.

00:17:32.860 And I told Tim,

00:17:33.440 I said,

00:17:33.620 here's why I think

00:17:35.200 that happens.

00:17:36.360 Because there's

00:17:36.980 a price to pay

00:17:38.360 socially

00:17:39.380 and in terms

00:17:41.020 of being accepted

00:17:41.900 if you don't

00:17:43.800 pretend like

00:17:44.660 you don't know

00:17:45.640 what you know

00:17:46.760 and you

00:17:47.940 don't sort of

00:17:49.020 excuse the things

00:17:50.320 that we were

00:17:50.900 talking about.

00:17:51.820 In other words,

00:17:52.520 long story short,

00:17:53.920 is every successful

00:17:55.480 African American

00:17:56.140 in this country

00:17:56.580 basically got

00:17:58.040 to be successful

00:17:58.780 by working hard

00:17:59.480 and doing what

00:17:59.840 they were supposed

00:18:00.220 to do.

00:18:00.640 Sure.

00:18:01.040 But they don't want

00:18:01.820 to be,

00:18:02.360 once they've achieved

00:18:03.080 that level of success,

00:18:03.980 not accepted

00:18:04.760 by the community

00:18:05.760 at large

00:18:06.280 and appear to be

00:18:07.220 out of touch.

00:18:08.000 And so they pretend

00:18:08.860 like they don't

00:18:09.980 know the formula.

00:18:11.260 They don't know

00:18:11.660 the winning formula.

00:18:13.220 I just think we need

00:18:13.780 to be more honest

00:18:14.440 about what the winning

00:18:15.040 formula is.

00:18:15.640 And the winning formula

00:18:16.400 ends up being

00:18:17.400 exactly what

00:18:18.360 the conservative

00:18:19.020 ideology would tell you.

00:18:20.780 it has to do

00:18:22.440 with taking

00:18:23.940 upon yourself

00:18:24.780 the responsibility

00:18:25.600 for yourself

00:18:26.720 and not believing

00:18:27.860 that the Democratic

00:18:28.520 Party or any party

00:18:29.600 is there to save you.

00:18:32.000 And the Democratic

00:18:32.520 Party wants you

00:18:33.220 to believe,

00:18:34.020 they do,

00:18:35.100 they want you

00:18:35.620 to believe you

00:18:36.300 can't get there

00:18:37.100 without them.

00:18:38.480 You know,

00:18:38.840 there's an old saying

00:18:40.120 that every time

00:18:42.080 I see luck,

00:18:43.480 it looks amazingly

00:18:44.400 like hard work.

00:18:45.260 Yep.

00:18:45.400 It's very true.

00:18:48.280 It's very true.

00:18:49.060 So now to the policy

00:18:50.320 things,

00:18:51.720 so this is,

00:18:52.420 you know,

00:18:52.660 so I'm bumping,

00:18:53.840 if anybody who's,

00:18:54.700 and I don't presume

00:18:55.700 that anyone in this

00:18:56.440 room has followed

00:18:57.180 my, you know,

00:18:58.180 my relatively

00:18:59.500 insignificant

00:19:00.060 legislative career,

00:19:01.560 but it was marked

00:19:03.280 with just fighting

00:19:04.080 with the Democratic

00:19:04.680 Party about various

00:19:05.940 issues.

00:19:06.740 We're just bumping

00:19:07.680 heads the whole way.

00:19:08.860 Well, as mayor,

00:19:09.840 you showed

00:19:10.580 enormous courage.

00:19:12.480 So there were

00:19:13.080 Democrats on the

00:19:13.900 city council

00:19:14.560 pushing with the

00:19:15.560 radical left movement

00:19:16.560 to defund

00:19:17.360 or to abolish

00:19:18.040 the police.

00:19:19.100 And you were

00:19:19.660 a fellow Democrat

00:19:20.380 at the time

00:19:20.980 and you stood up

00:19:21.740 and fought them.

00:19:22.420 And that,

00:19:22.640 that,

00:19:23.280 that's when you

00:19:24.740 and I first got

00:19:25.560 to know each other

00:19:26.220 is when you were

00:19:26.760 newly elected

00:19:27.360 and I came by

00:19:28.040 your office.

00:19:28.680 I wanted to meet you

00:19:29.440 and we worked

00:19:30.260 together closely.

00:19:31.360 But the courage

00:19:32.740 you showed

00:19:33.480 fighting for the

00:19:34.340 people of Dallas

00:19:35.080 really stood out

00:19:36.220 early on in your

00:19:37.460 tenure.

00:19:37.580 Well, I appreciate

00:19:38.040 you saying that

00:19:38.720 and I was going

00:19:39.220 to get to that

00:19:39.980 eventually about

00:19:41.240 how we met

00:19:42.120 and about what

00:19:42.940 the, you know,

00:19:43.380 what we've been

00:19:43.900 doing for the

00:19:45.220 past five years

00:19:46.000 I've been mayor.

00:19:47.500 But in the

00:19:49.100 legislature even,

00:19:50.640 when I was part

00:19:51.700 of a partisan

00:19:52.680 caucus, I was a

00:19:54.740 terrible by the

00:19:55.940 Democrat Party's own,

00:19:56.860 like once I left

00:19:57.580 the party, they

00:19:58.220 were honest.

00:19:59.260 Their statements

00:19:59.800 are very interesting.

00:20:00.540 If you read the

00:20:01.000 statements from the

00:20:01.540 state party, they

00:20:02.860 all say some

00:20:03.820 pretty interesting

00:20:04.260 things like he was

00:20:05.580 always a terrible

00:20:06.320 Democrat, good riddance,

00:20:07.360 we're glad he's

00:20:07.880 gone.

00:20:08.620 It's like I'm not

00:20:09.020 sure they understood

00:20:09.720 what they were

00:20:10.180 admitting to.

00:20:11.040 It's like, you

00:20:11.320 know, but they

00:20:12.560 acknowledged that it

00:20:13.340 was always a bad

00:20:13.980 fit.

00:20:14.700 But what they're

00:20:15.480 really talking about

00:20:16.920 is when I would be

00:20:18.040 honest about voter

00:20:19.200 fraud, the voter

00:20:20.680 fraud that happens in

00:20:21.880 our large cities in

00:20:23.680 Texas that I'm aware

00:20:24.720 of because I've seen

00:20:25.280 it happening to me

00:20:27.420 in my own races.

00:20:28.380 I'm like these,

00:20:29.920 there are people who

00:20:30.960 are outright stealing

00:20:32.600 the votes of the

00:20:33.440 elderly as a, period.

00:20:34.940 Elaborate on that a

00:20:36.380 little bit.

00:20:37.220 I came out very

00:20:38.380 vocally and upset the

00:20:40.020 party by saying that

00:20:42.860 there is a systematic

00:20:44.160 in the large urban

00:20:45.820 cities like Dallas,

00:20:47.920 absentee or, you know,

00:20:49.760 ballot harvesting

00:20:50.700 operation where people

00:20:53.180 are going to old folks'

00:20:54.900 homes and taking ballots

00:20:56.120 out of their mailboxes

00:20:57.540 and voting these ballots

00:20:59.100 for these people or going

00:21:00.920 and collecting ballots

00:21:01.720 from these folks.

00:21:02.340 And if they don't like

00:21:03.140 the way the vote was

00:21:04.700 already cast, it goes

00:21:05.820 in the garbage.

00:21:07.040 And I said that kind of

00:21:08.920 thing is wrong and it

00:21:10.780 upset people.

00:21:11.800 It upset people in the

00:21:13.400 party when I spoke out

00:21:14.260 against, you know,

00:21:15.480 corruption in the party.

00:21:17.980 So I started off in a

00:21:20.500 posture with the party

00:21:21.320 that was already a little

00:21:23.420 bit antagonistic and it

00:21:24.440 just got worse and worse.

00:21:26.480 So this is the slow burn.

00:21:29.060 Well, now I've become the

00:21:30.160 mayor and my whole job

00:21:32.460 changes.

00:21:33.300 I'm not a part of some

00:21:34.180 legislative caucus where

00:21:35.800 I'm just sort of, you

00:21:36.580 know, having to be a good

00:21:37.320 team player.

00:21:37.840 I'm responsible for

00:21:38.960 people's lives.

00:21:40.000 Like, I'm responsible for

00:21:40.820 making the call to keep

00:21:42.740 people alive and make sure

00:21:45.560 that my city is, you know,

00:21:47.640 people are safe there.

00:21:49.800 And so it's supposed to,

00:21:53.040 it should, once you've been

00:21:53.920 given that kind of

00:21:54.460 responsibility, it should

00:21:55.200 change you.

00:21:55.900 Like, you should look at

00:21:57.280 things differently.

00:21:58.860 And sure enough, I get

00:22:00.800 tested pretty early on with

00:22:02.880 this to fund the police

00:22:04.220 thing.

00:22:04.640 Yep.

00:22:04.940 And I'm just going to

00:22:05.960 break it down for a while.

00:22:06.820 But the choice became very

00:22:08.060 simple.

00:22:08.860 I want to tell you about

00:22:09.940 something that is really

00:22:11.020 cool.

00:22:11.560 Many of you may know this.

00:22:12.920 I was an owner of a gun

00:22:14.120 store for four years.

00:22:15.700 And during COVID, there was

00:22:18.680 a massive shortage that

00:22:20.000 happened with ammo.

00:22:21.120 We saw ammo prices skyrocket

00:22:23.720 and people coming in that

00:22:24.980 just want to make sure they

00:22:25.800 could protect and defend

00:22:26.800 themselves and their family

00:22:28.000 and they couldn't find what

00:22:30.080 they needed.

00:22:31.160 I, back then, thought, man,

00:22:33.020 I wish there was a way that

00:22:34.160 you could just get ammo and

00:22:35.860 store it.

00:22:36.540 Well, there is a way now and

00:22:38.180 it's called Ammo Squared.

00:22:40.200 It's helping people just like

00:22:42.480 you and I stay stocked up on

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00:22:46.520 Ammo is delivered on demand

00:22:47.980 or automatically when you

00:22:49.420 need it and stored for free

00:22:51.240 when you don't.

00:22:52.380 It's customizable to your

00:22:53.700 budget.

00:22:54.280 You can buy as little as a

00:22:55.440 few dollars a month and let

00:22:57.540 it grow over time or buy a

00:22:59.380 bunch all at once and you

00:23:01.240 have it when you need it.

00:23:03.140 It's truly automatic.

00:23:04.620 Set it and forget it.

00:23:05.860 Ammo purchasing.

00:23:07.160 You pick your calibers.

00:23:08.400 You set your budget.

00:23:09.420 You select a shipping

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00:23:12.300 Ammo builds up over time

00:23:13.680 and it delivered

00:23:14.580 automatically when you want

00:23:16.560 it, no matter what's going

00:23:17.760 on in the market because you

00:23:19.060 already own it.

00:23:20.640 In 2020, when the store

00:23:22.040 shelves were empty and

00:23:23.040 everyone had trouble finding

00:23:24.300 ammo locally or online,

00:23:26.480 Ammo Squared customers just

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00:23:39.200 having to figure out how to

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00:23:41.500 prices skyrocketing when you

00:23:43.260 need it the most.

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00:24:00.860 free ammo in your account

00:24:02.380 today.

00:24:03.120 Just so people know that are

00:24:04.440 listening around the country

00:24:05.120 because I think it's an

00:24:05.700 important point.

00:24:07.200 The Defund the Police movement

00:24:09.300 that was rolled out

00:24:10.140 nationwide, they wanted it to

00:24:12.440 be successful in big cities.

00:24:15.360 Dallas was one of them.

00:24:16.260 And this was a lot of outside

00:24:17.620 pressure as well from coming

00:24:19.580 from outside of Dallas where

00:24:21.180 they were organizing and

00:24:22.580 spending money.

00:24:23.320 I've never seen since.

00:24:24.340 They didn't even live in.

00:24:25.120 I don't even know where the

00:24:25.880 people, they don't even show.

00:24:27.100 Wow.

00:24:27.420 It was a national campaign.

00:24:28.600 Yeah, it was a national

00:24:29.420 campaign with people who were,

00:24:30.800 you know, rent-a-protester

00:24:32.180 types, I guess.

00:24:33.100 But here's my point.

00:24:35.100 It's absolutely true there was

00:24:36.380 a national movement, but the

00:24:37.460 choice was pretty clear.

00:24:39.260 If you were a mayor of a

00:24:41.060 major American city and more

00:24:42.480 than likely you were a

00:24:43.200 Democrat then because I think

00:24:45.100 the number is roughly 75% of

00:24:48.140 the top 100 cities in America

00:24:49.580 are run by Democrats, and

00:24:52.600 every mayor in the top 10

00:24:53.860 before me was Democrat, you

00:24:57.580 really had two choices.

00:25:00.460 Go along with the Defund the

00:25:01.780 Police idea because that's

00:25:02.780 where the left was, that's

00:25:04.360 where the activists were,

00:25:05.400 that's where the pressure was

00:25:06.320 was to defund, and defund

00:25:07.680 meant anything from like what

00:25:09.240 they did here in Austin, a

00:25:10.580 40% across the board cut to

00:25:12.580 your police department for no

00:25:13.620 reason, not based on any

00:25:15.540 facts, just because some

00:25:17.120 activists decided that

00:25:18.300 sounded like a good number.

00:25:19.300 The proposal in Dallas was

00:25:20.420 60, that's what they wanted

00:25:21.600 in Dallas, 60%.

00:25:22.540 You can either do that and

00:25:24.500 be a good Democrat and people

00:25:26.260 leave you alone, or you could

00:25:28.120 be a sellout and a bad

00:25:29.420 Democrat and not do it and

00:25:32.700 incur the ire.

00:25:34.380 You're looking at the one

00:25:35.580 Democratic mayor that I'm

00:25:36.940 aware of in the United States

00:25:38.080 who said, I'm not doing

00:25:38.960 that.

00:25:40.760 And the result, and this is

00:25:42.840 like I said, when we started

00:25:43.460 to get closer, I mean, the

00:25:45.720 result was protests for weeks

00:25:48.860 on end, at night, against

00:25:51.780 Dallas City ordinances, with

00:25:53.560 amplification and bullhorns

00:25:55.080 and all that, against Dallas

00:25:56.120 City ordinances, standing on

00:25:58.300 my private property, not on

00:25:59.560 the street in an acceptable

00:26:01.320 protest perimeter, but like on

00:26:03.400 the grass, looking in the

00:26:05.180 windows, with two little

00:26:08.000 children and a wife, like

00:26:09.440 intentionally trying to

00:26:11.320 intimidate me into changing

00:26:12.960 my position to defund the

00:26:15.020 police.

00:26:15.700 And I never caved, even

00:26:17.900 though it was horrible,

00:26:19.380 horrible, horrible for my

00:26:20.260 family.

00:26:21.340 And that is when I really

00:26:23.420 started to understand this

00:26:27.140 isn't the fringe anymore of

00:26:29.620 the Democratic Party.

00:26:31.080 This is the Democratic Party.

00:26:33.000 It's who they are.

00:26:33.500 Like, this is where we are on

00:26:35.140 public safety as the

00:26:36.140 Democratic Party now.

00:26:37.080 And if you actually believe in

00:26:40.460 law and order and making

00:26:42.020 sure that people are safe,

00:26:43.880 then there is no more part of

00:26:46.880 the Democratic Party that is

00:26:48.240 with you on that.

00:26:49.060 Because I'm looking for those

00:26:51.060 people.

00:26:51.440 I'm waiting for the phone

00:26:52.340 calls from just one, for just

00:26:54.960 one Democratic congressperson or

00:26:57.480 one Democratic officeholder to

00:26:59.380 say, we're with you.

00:27:00.580 You know, you're doing the

00:27:01.620 right thing.

00:27:01.980 And here's the truth, and I've

00:27:03.260 never said this publicly, but I'll

00:27:04.400 say it now.

00:27:05.820 The only calls I got during that

00:27:07.940 entire time saying, hold the

00:27:10.660 line, keep your people safe,

00:27:12.620 you're doing a good job, were from

00:27:14.060 Republicans.

00:27:14.760 And I was a Democrat as far as

00:27:16.400 they knew, and there was no, you

00:27:18.200 know, there was no reason other

00:27:21.940 than it's the right thing to do

00:27:23.880 what you're doing, and we won't

00:27:24.800 let you know that.

00:27:25.540 There was nothing to be gained

00:27:26.760 politically from you standing

00:27:29.860 with me publicly and saying, this

00:27:31.080 is the right thing to do.

00:27:32.240 Greg Abbott did it.

00:27:33.480 You did it.

00:27:34.320 Dan Patrick did it.

00:27:35.280 A lot of people just said that

00:27:36.440 that mayor's doing the right

00:27:37.420 thing.

00:27:38.400 And so Democrats, I saw at that

00:27:40.940 point, were pretty lost on the

00:27:42.520 public safety issue.

00:27:44.180 But then on top of that, I

00:27:46.320 started to see, and I didn't

00:27:48.300 have this responsibility as a

00:27:49.380 legislator, and I got it as the

00:27:50.580 mayor, I have to protect

00:27:52.980 people's incomes and make sure

00:27:55.120 people can actually afford to live

00:27:56.800 in this city because we are

00:27:58.200 bleeding residents to lower tax

00:28:00.240 jurisdictions.

00:28:01.580 So I started to really dig into

00:28:03.760 our tax policy and saying, you

00:28:05.400 know, what are we doing to help

00:28:08.100 our residents be able to live

00:28:11.180 here, have businesses here, and

00:28:13.160 be competitive with our local,

00:28:15.260 you know, our competitors?

00:28:16.560 And it turns out that we were

00:28:19.440 doing a pretty bad job of

00:28:22.200 actually even making an attempt

00:28:24.860 to protect our taxpayers.

00:28:27.260 We have the highest tax rate in

00:28:29.340 Dallas of any of the cities in

00:28:31.380 the area, and we have the second

00:28:32.920 highest of any major city in the

00:28:34.460 state.

00:28:35.160 And so I really wanted to change

00:28:37.340 that.

00:28:38.560 The resistance that I got from the

00:28:42.180 left-leaning members of our

00:28:43.500 council was incredible.

00:28:47.400 And the way the argument was

00:28:49.280 couched and the way that the

00:28:51.020 strategy is to couch any effort to

00:28:55.000 rein in spending at all, even to

00:28:57.080 hold it steady from year to year,

00:28:58.580 is being heartless and not caring

00:29:00.560 about people.

00:29:02.140 That resonated with me because I

00:29:03.700 realized, no, that's actually been

00:29:06.800 what the Democratic Party has been

00:29:08.600 about all along and what I've sort

00:29:10.440 of been an unwitting accessory to,

00:29:13.220 which is painting people who just

00:29:17.220 want to leave people alone or leave

00:29:21.180 people with more of their income to

00:29:22.680 be able to do what they want to do

00:29:23.400 for their family as opposed to taking

00:29:24.700 it from them and spending it on

00:29:26.040 things they never asked for in the

00:29:27.080 first place, primarily so that

00:29:28.940 politicians can have something to

00:29:30.220 campaign on.

00:29:31.840 They perfected the art of making

00:29:33.900 anyone who was opposed to that seem

00:29:35.980 like they were against the people

00:29:38.220 they were trying to help or didn't

00:29:39.460 care.

00:29:39.820 They demonize you.

00:29:40.820 They attack you personally.

00:29:42.060 And so I became heartless.

00:29:43.420 I became someone who didn't care about

00:29:45.120 people.

00:29:46.260 I'll give you an example from just

00:29:47.520 last week.

00:29:48.660 I'm in a, I'm in the minority.

00:29:51.060 I'm on, I'm in a 12 to 3 minority

00:29:54.740 vote that I lost on my city council

00:29:57.460 last week because I voted against us

00:30:00.300 appropriating almost, what, three

00:30:02.960 quarters of a million dollars to make

00:30:04.780 sure that anybody in Dallas who needs

00:30:07.080 tampons or other feminine hygiene

00:30:09.120 products could have them from the city

00:30:10.380 of Dallas.

00:30:11.620 I said, I don't know why on earth we

00:30:14.520 think that is something that we ought

00:30:17.340 to be doing as a city with people's

00:30:19.420 tax dollars.

00:30:20.420 Well, there's 300 more programs just

00:30:23.040 like that.

00:30:24.000 And we add them all together.

00:30:25.560 That's how you end up with a budget

00:30:27.100 that grows year after year after year.

00:30:29.160 We've gotten into more and more things

00:30:31.040 that we don't need to be into.

00:30:32.880 And so I said, I'm in the wrong party

00:30:35.540 on public safety for sure, but I'm also

00:30:37.260 not really into this whole just tax

00:30:39.320 people to death.

00:30:40.160 So you can do all this liberal

00:30:41.260 experimentation.

00:30:42.780 And so on the issues that were

00:30:44.960 most important as a mayor and that

00:30:48.240 were most important in my family,

00:30:49.940 the Democratic Party was batting a

00:30:52.440 goose egg on those issues.

00:30:55.080 And I started to think there really

00:30:57.980 is very little reason why a person

00:31:01.400 who is a common sense, fiscally

00:31:05.600 responsible person ought to be voting

00:31:08.480 Democratic, particularly at the local

00:31:09.640 level, unless there's some sort of

00:31:11.600 social reason that you just can't

00:31:14.080 give up where you need to be accepted

00:31:16.160 by your friends or family.

00:31:17.480 And I just don't have that.

00:31:18.520 I don't have that need.

00:31:20.800 Canadian women are looking for more,

00:31:22.920 more to themselves, their businesses,

00:31:24.920 their elected leaders, and the world

00:31:26.460 around them.

00:31:27.100 And that's why we're thrilled to

00:31:28.280 introduce the Honest Talk podcast.

00:31:30.840 I'm Jennifer Stewart.

00:31:32.040 And I'm Catherine Clark.

00:31:33.260 And in this podcast, we interview

00:31:34.860 Canada's most inspiring women,

00:31:36.840 entrepreneurs, artists, athletes,

00:31:38.980 politicians, and newsmakers, all at

00:31:40.980 different stages of their journey.

00:31:42.760 So if you're looking to connect, then

00:31:44.680 we hope you'll join us.

00:31:45.980 Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on

00:31:47.560 iHeartRadio or wherever you listen

00:31:49.340 to your podcasts.

00:31:51.520 Well, let's talk about that a little

00:31:53.360 more, but I will say one of the

00:31:56.480 greatest ironies is the rhetoric that

00:31:58.860 the left uses in support of their

00:32:00.700 policies, I think, is 180 degrees

00:32:03.800 opposite reality.

00:32:05.720 So, for example, the effort to defund

00:32:08.960 the police is advanced by movements

00:32:13.720 and activists and billionaire donors

00:32:16.720 who are embracing the slogan,

00:32:18.880 Black Lives Matter.

00:32:20.260 Now, as a statement, Black Lives Matter

00:32:22.620 is unequivocally absolutely true.

00:32:25.860 But the undeniable fact is that when

00:32:28.940 you defund the police, inevitably more

00:32:33.500 African Americans are murdered, more

00:32:35.800 black lives are lost because for a

00:32:38.960 great many of our African American

00:32:40.500 citizens and our Hispanic citizens, they

00:32:42.940 live in more low-income neighborhoods

00:32:45.940 that are more subject to crime.

00:32:48.420 And when you pull law enforcement out,

00:32:51.480 you know, we're at a dinner right now.

00:32:53.780 I guarantee you anyone here, if we told you,

00:32:55.800 hey, we're going to pull the cops out of your

00:32:57.140 neighborhood, everyone here would say,

00:32:59.180 no, no, no, that's a terrible idea.

00:33:01.360 But yet we see these left-wing activists in

00:33:04.040 the name of a slogan, Black Lives Matter,

00:33:07.000 removing police protections from vulnerable

00:33:09.780 black families.

00:33:10.640 And the result is far more

00:33:12.920 African American murders.

00:33:14.340 And yet they continue to embrace that same rhetoric.

00:33:18.080 So I don't have to guess about it because not only

00:33:20.620 do I have the knowledge of being the mayor and

00:33:23.380 knowing the crime statistics for my city,

00:33:25.160 but I also have the lived experience of growing up

00:33:29.400 African American in Dallas, in the very communities

00:33:32.540 that we're talking about.

00:33:33.440 So I am familiar with this issue as intimately as you

00:33:38.480 can possibly be, both from sort of the policy-making

00:33:41.180 standpoint and just the life experience.

00:33:43.520 And I can tell you, I'm going to end the suspense

00:33:45.360 for folks.

00:33:46.280 It's not, I'm not guessing about it.

00:33:48.860 I can speak on it with authority.

00:33:50.280 And that's why people on the left don't even,

00:33:51.740 they don't even challenge me on this because they know

00:33:54.320 that I'm not only on my right, but that I have the

00:33:58.420 credibility on that.

00:33:59.220 I got the street credit to speak on this.

00:34:02.680 The Black Lives Matter thing and the defund the police

00:34:07.100 thing are kind of issues that have been conflated.

00:34:10.080 But the truth of the matter is, is defund the police for sure

00:34:15.280 was a construct of, frankly, white liberals who don't live

00:34:20.620 in those communities at all and was never asked for,

00:34:24.240 irrespective of their party affiliation, by African Americans

00:34:26.740 who lived in crime-ridden neighborhoods.

00:34:28.480 Never.

00:34:29.580 African Americans never at any point said,

00:34:31.800 we want the police out of our communities.

00:34:33.420 They said, we want more police in our communities.

00:34:35.320 We want them to be well-trained.

00:34:37.380 We want them to, you know, we want,

00:34:40.100 we want to live in a safe community and we believe the police

00:34:42.560 are part of that.

00:34:43.840 So it was never true to begin with.

00:34:45.860 It was a political thing to begin with.

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00:36:20.060 What was the reaction of police officers when this was going down?

00:36:25.380 I mean, we saw a lot of them were trying to, you know, be quiet, stay out of the politics.

00:36:31.500 But you were a Democrat.

00:36:33.160 You have a large police force with a lot of minorities in it.

00:36:36.660 What were they saying to you privately during that time?

00:36:39.860 Well, I'll answer that one really quickly.

00:36:44.280 Everybody I believe in law enforcement could not believe and was so relieved that they had the one person who in this role everywhere else in the country was caving who was standing up.

00:36:58.520 They were very grateful, and it's what earned me the just enduring support of law enforcement for my entire mayoralty because I stood by them.

00:37:10.340 But I wasn't standing by them just to send a message.

00:37:13.320 I was standing because it was absolutely what the city needed.

00:37:16.400 Law enforcement hadn't done anything wrong where they deserved for that rhetoric to be thrown out around them.

00:37:22.920 And having, you know, cutting 60% from a police department, that's not trimming around the edges.

00:37:30.240 That's salary and benefits.

00:37:32.280 That's recruitment.

00:37:33.440 I mean, that's a real, that's putting them in more danger, doing already a dangerous job.

00:37:38.680 And so they really appreciated that.

00:37:41.660 But I want to put a fine point on this issue with the African-American community as it relates to public safety because it relates to what I believe is part of why I think that this party switch of mind is,

00:37:52.920 it's not important because I switch part.

00:37:55.540 That's almost insignificant.

00:37:57.600 But what it represents for the potentiality for this group of people who I honestly believe just have not had anybody come to them in a spirit of love and concern,

00:38:11.140 who's operating from within the community, not saying I sort of exist outside of it and let me lecture you about what you should.

00:38:17.580 I mean, a acknowledged and accepted and proud member of it saying, let me explain to you why we've been duped a little bit here and why what was once maybe a good idea or sounded like one has now actually been categorically proven to be a failed strategy.

00:38:36.760 Well, and let me drill down on that a little bit.

00:38:39.100 And this is something that-

00:38:40.580 Because I feel pretty strongly about this one.

00:38:41.900 This is way bigger than one guy switching.

00:38:45.040 This ought to be about people going, why am I still a Democrat if this is what I care about?

00:38:50.520 You know?

00:38:50.820 Well, and this is a theme you've referenced several times that I think is really important.

00:38:54.860 I emphatically believe, and I think you do as well, that the policies of the left, the policies of liberal Democrats have been deeply harmful to the African American community, to the Hispanic community, that they exacerbate poverty, they exacerbate crime, they have-

00:39:14.860 They throttle educational excellence and opportunity, and yet we still have, in Texas and across the country, an overwhelming majority of African Americans voting Democrat.

00:39:31.800 And so I guess I want to ask two things.

00:39:33.180 One, you made reference to it before about how kind of culturally you are, you're essentially told you're a Democrat, that's what it means to be black.

00:39:44.240 I'd like you to kind of explain a little bit why you think that is.

00:39:49.100 And then the second part of it is, look, we're seeing, especially in Texas, but other parts of the country, we're seeing the Hispanic community is getting more and more Republican every day.

00:39:57.960 And we're seeing, and we're seeing the African American community, I think there's some movement, but we've got a lot further to go in the African American community.

00:40:07.800 What do you think, what do you think is persuasive, what should Republicans do to earn more support in the African American community going forward?

00:40:20.240 I think it's an amazingly important question, and I appreciate you asking it.

00:40:26.460 And it's complicated, but I think if we're going to start that conversation tonight a little bit, and I really appreciate you having this conversation with me.

00:40:35.740 I've not ever had an opportunity to talk about it.

00:40:37.760 This is stuff that I've been thinking about my whole life, and I hadn't really any opportunity to really do anything about it.

00:40:43.220 And I feel like I'm at this point in my life now where maybe we can actually see the numbers of African Americans change to support the Republican Party.

00:40:53.780 I think this, I think it's perfectly understandable in a limited resource environment, which is what any political campaign is or any political party is.

00:41:07.840 It's like resources are infinite to say to any group that at any point in time is only throwing you 10% of their support, i.e. they're against you 90% of the time, that that's not where we ought to be investing.

00:41:20.380 I think that's a perfectly rational decision, that the perfectly rational decision in a lot of ways to not play the game at all, because it's not perceived to be a particularly fruitful game, plays very easily into a narrative that, and therefore that party doesn't care at all.

00:41:41.180 Right. So you've got one party that may be able to be criticized for being inefficient and ineffective, but they're telling you they care.

00:41:50.040 And you've got another party that might not be telling you they hate you, but they're just sort of focused on groups that produce more efficiently support.

00:41:59.500 I mean, it's a tough slog when you're talking about 90-10.

00:42:03.400 Yep.

00:42:03.900 And so it's understandable, but it's come at a cost.

00:42:06.600 What I'm saying and what I'm feeling instinctively, politically right now, is that there's been a maturation that was inevitable in African Americans' position in this country.

00:42:18.920 We are better off than we've ever been.

00:42:21.360 Are we as well off as we'd like to be?

00:42:23.060 No, but we are better off.

00:42:25.740 We're better educated.

00:42:27.040 We're better everything.

00:42:27.800 Anybody who says we're not better off today than we were in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War or during the Civil Rights era is just playing a game.

00:42:38.400 They're playing a rhetorical game.

00:42:39.280 Yes, we are.

00:42:40.280 We're not where we'd like to be, but we are further ahead than we've ever been.

00:42:44.380 What that means, though, is that people maybe have more of an opportunity now to sit back and look at things and ask that question of how has this approach of making everything about the community in terms of everything I do is written off to societal factors, right?

00:43:04.720 We can't even hold a criminal accountable because it's society's fault.

00:43:10.500 Everything in the Democratic Party, my experience was anything you tried to actually pin on an individual was written off to society.

00:43:21.620 So as a mayor, for example, I am really deeply concerned about the victims of crime because they did nothing wrong.

00:43:29.980 The law enforcement folks who are out there risking their lives to prevent crime and to address crime and then the would-be victims of crime that we're trying to protect, right?

00:43:41.320 That's who I care about.

00:43:42.500 Victims, would-be victims, cops.

00:43:45.640 The Democrat Party really seems, I mean, legitimately seems to care more about the perpetrators of crimes than the victims of crimes or the would-be victims or the police.

00:43:55.800 And I tell you what my evidence of that is, is whenever somebody does anything, the finger gets pointed at the rest of us and we get told how if we just had built another recreation center or, you know, if we had put more money into the schools, this person may not have murdered that person or this person may not have raped that person.

00:44:15.520 I grew up as poor and as black as you can grow up, and I can tell you in every poor and black community in this country, 80% of the people, like in any other group, are making the decision every single day to follow the law and do it by the rules.

00:44:33.100 It's 20%, like in any group.

00:44:35.100 Well, look, the whole country saw the image just a couple of weeks ago of the six illegal immigrants in New York City who beat up two New York cops.

00:44:43.780 They get arrested and within hours they get released, no bail, and they walk out and with both hands they're flipping the bird at everyone.

00:44:53.420 And that, to me, that image of those angry illegal immigrants flipping the bird, I think sums up the absolute depravity of the view of the left.

00:45:08.080 And we're seeing, look, we're seeing great American cities being destroyed.

00:45:14.340 As you know, Heidi, my wife, is a native Californian.

00:45:17.700 You look at California, you look at a city like San Francisco.

00:45:21.220 San Francisco is an iconic American city.

00:45:24.400 In the last couple of years, 22 major retailers have shut down downtown because the crime has gotten so bad.

00:45:32.540 And I remember Heidi's family lives in California called and they just said on the phone to her, said, well, gosh, you know, what can we do?

00:45:40.300 People just go into stores and, you know, just take stuff.

00:45:43.120 There's nothing we can do about it.

00:45:44.340 And I remember I'm listening to that and I said, yes, there is.

00:45:47.000 You throw their ass in jail.

00:45:48.740 Like, put them in handcuffs.

00:45:50.360 Arrest them.

00:45:51.060 It's worse than that.

00:45:51.820 But it's worse than that, Senator.

00:45:53.380 This is what I'm getting at, too.

00:45:54.760 It's worse than that.

00:45:55.800 But it's quite predictable when you literally change the policies in the prosecutor's office and you say, we won't prosecute theft of any amount underneath $1,000.

00:46:15.260 And then you don't just make that some sort of, and it would still be bad, internal memorandum.

00:46:22.100 You go on the news.

00:46:23.140 You publicize it.

00:46:23.940 You let every criminal know.

00:46:25.740 We're not going to do that.

00:46:26.240 Steal $990.

00:46:27.160 Is it really a surprise that you have an uptick, not even an uptick, a sharp increase in smash and grab jobs and shoplifting?

00:46:37.320 Again, in an effort to do some of these things that sound good on paper because, you know, society is at fault, not individuals, we do crazy things.

00:46:47.160 These DAs and things stop prosecuting crimes because it's not fair.

00:46:52.260 You know what?

00:46:52.840 Back to that 80-20 split, which is just sort of the metaphorical split in any group of people who are doing the right thing and people who aren't.

00:46:58.280 That 20% just needs to be held accountable for making an individual choice to break the law and kill someone or rape someone or terrorize a community.

00:47:07.960 And we need to stop pretending like everything can be attributed to some societal factor.

00:47:12.720 It's just not the way it actually is.

00:47:15.280 All right.

00:47:15.460 We need to wrap up soon, but I want to ask two questions to close.

00:47:19.140 One, in your view, part of what you answered in terms of how Republicans can do a better job in the African-American community is just showing up and demonstrating that they give a damn.

00:47:32.320 And I think that absolutely is right.

00:47:33.580 I didn't really say all I needed to say on that because it's not just about emoting and showing up and just saying we care.

00:47:40.320 It's, I think, having an alternative to the liberal approach.

00:47:45.340 Well, and that's where my question was going to go, which is what issues do you think resonate most powerfully in the African-American community that by focusing on those issues have a potential to earn their support by saying,

00:48:04.620 look, this is an issue that is going to make a difference in your life and your family.

00:48:09.780 I am deeply passionate on school choice.

00:48:11.680 I think school choice is the most fundamental civil rights issue in the entire country.

00:48:17.240 But I'm interested in your thoughts of what issues actually will resonate and cause voters who have voted Democrat their whole life to reconsider, gosh, maybe the policies that they're foisting upon me are not working.

00:48:33.100 I think if a Republican candidate for president, candidate for governor, candidate for mayor, candidate of anybody who's actually perceived to be running for an executive type position was in charge went to an African-American community.

00:48:51.060 I'm talking of people who are members of the community who are going to vote and participate in the process, you know, people who are invested in their community and said,

00:48:58.200 I'm the person who's going to come in here and I'm going to make this a safe community for you because no one before me has done that.

00:49:07.000 No one.

00:49:07.500 Either side, this community is, you deserve a safer neighborhood than you're living in.

00:49:12.800 I want you to be able to walk from your house to the end of the block and back home without being worried about being mugged or robbed or killed and you don't feel safe doing that right now.

00:49:24.160 I want your grandson to feel safe walking from the school bus home and he doesn't feel safe doing that right now.

00:49:30.360 I want to restore a genuine sense of safety to this community.

00:49:34.280 That's number one.

00:49:34.900 Number two, I understand that the burden of high taxes falls disproportionately on you.

00:49:42.460 I have polling from my mayoral campaigns that shows in Dallas, Texas, the groups of voters who most want their taxes lowered are African-Americans followed by Latinos.

00:49:57.100 Whites are in third place because they're paying a higher percentage of their income in the taxes.

00:50:02.500 It hits them the hardest.

00:50:05.540 They are the most worked up about their property tax bill and would most like to see it.

00:50:09.880 I'm going to take that.

00:50:10.480 It's a barrier to entry.

00:50:11.620 If you're climbing the economic ladder, it hits you the hardest on the earliest rung.

00:50:16.040 This is supported by polling data.

00:50:19.800 It will show you that poor folks actually are most crippled by reckless tax policy at the local level in particular because there's no game.

00:50:30.420 There's no playing a game around that.

00:50:31.820 There's no tax credit this and, you know, figure that out.

00:50:36.860 Like, the tax bill is just due or they foreclose on the house and you just got to find a way to pay it.

00:50:43.120 And that's just all there is to that.

00:50:44.840 So high property taxes is a horrible thing for poor folks.

00:50:48.860 You come in and you tell them, we're going to deal with these tax burdens that you're facing.

00:50:54.040 We're going to deal with the safety in these communities and we're going to give your kids viable choices for schooling.

00:51:01.080 We're going to make sure that you actually have a shot at a decent education.

00:51:04.260 I think at that point people are like, I don't care.

00:51:06.600 I don't know what part you said you're with, but I'm ready to sign up for that.

00:51:10.640 And you say, well, actually, everything I just described to you is right dead down the center of the fairway, Republican policy.

00:51:17.340 Yep.

00:51:17.800 Everything I just told, that's Republican policy.

00:51:20.020 I think people will literally say, well, I don't know why I've been voting Democrat this whole time.

00:51:25.420 All right.

00:51:25.640 There's going to be a lot of people that are listening and they're going to want to ask this question.

00:51:28.500 So I'm going to ask it.

00:51:29.200 If you were up for re-election right now, running as a Republican for mayor, your policies haven't changed.

00:51:36.480 The only thing that's changed is a D went to an R.

00:51:38.980 Correct.

00:51:39.640 Could you win?

00:51:40.900 I'd win overwhelmingly.

00:51:42.740 I don't have any doubt about it.

00:51:44.160 I have no doubt about it.

00:51:45.620 And I'll tell you why I believe that.

00:51:47.000 I'll tell you why.

00:51:47.920 I'm glad someone finally asked for that on the record.

00:51:50.340 That's sort of the chatter as well.

00:51:52.460 That's why I asked it.

00:51:53.280 Because you know they're going to say, oh, well, this guy could never win.

00:51:55.640 That's why he waited until the end of his term to then switch parties.

00:51:59.480 So here's the reality that people have to ignore to even make that argument.

00:52:04.240 But I understand why people need to make it.

00:52:05.860 I mean, I told someone, I said, you know, you don't switch parties in a two-party system

00:52:09.680 from one to the other and think the other party's going to say, well, you know, we wish him the best.

00:52:12.580 He was great.

00:52:13.300 And it's our loss.

00:52:14.840 You know, they've got to come up with something.

00:52:16.900 And these are the kinds of arguments they've come up with.

00:52:20.080 But here's the reality.

00:52:21.120 I won my last election with, it wasn't 93%.

00:52:25.720 Dallas City, you know, has ordinances about how write-in candidates get on the ballot.

00:52:32.980 And if you write in a name other than the actual write-in candidate's name that's there,

00:52:37.380 you just essentially didn't vote.

00:52:38.740 You threw your vote, your ballot in the trash.

00:52:41.380 Of the cast votes, which were canvassed by the city and are the official records of the city,

00:52:45.780 98.7% of the vote, that's Democrats and Republicans in that group.

00:52:51.360 That's a pretty hearty endorsement of the incumbent mayor.

00:52:55.740 And I didn't run with a D or an R behind my name.

00:52:58.440 I ran just with, you know, as Eric Johnson, because you don't run in Texas,

00:53:01.960 in any city with a D, or for folks who aren't from Texas,

00:53:04.700 we don't actually have partisan elections in Texas for mayor.

00:53:07.960 You just run.

00:53:09.160 And you don't run with a party's support.

00:53:11.720 Now, what do I think would have actually happened if I had just come out and said,

00:53:17.220 six months before the election, I'm actually a Republican.

00:53:19.320 Here's what would have happened.

00:53:20.900 Some Democrats would have gotten together and said,

00:53:22.700 well, this is an opportunity for us to run an ostensibly, just overtly partisan candidate.

00:53:30.140 We're going to do something that's never been done in Dallas before,

00:53:32.140 which is to just make it partisan.

00:53:34.080 Like, to say, okay, we've got an R running, and now we're going to run a D against him.

00:53:37.820 And the problem is that the R you're talking about, for four years,

00:53:42.260 well enough to clear the field and win with 98.7% of the vote,

00:53:45.300 but that didn't happen yet.

00:53:46.680 So let's just go back and say, a Republican who's been that effective,

00:53:52.060 who happens to also be African-American and supported by the African-American community,

00:53:56.880 we think that that person would lose simply by saying, I've become a Republican.

00:54:02.020 I think what happens is, is I won the first race in a contested nine-person field

00:54:08.240 that it went to a runoff with 12% of the vote.

00:54:10.720 I won, you know, 56-44.

00:54:13.820 I think that goes down to the normal, you know, pretty solid win of a, you know, 54, 53% win.

00:54:23.280 But I still win.

00:54:24.240 There's no question I still win that race because I'm the incumbent at that point.

00:54:27.860 No incumbent mayor, we've had Republican and Democrat mayors before, by the way,

00:54:32.340 no incumbent mayor seeking re-election in Dallas has ever lost, ever.

00:54:36.440 All right, so let me ask a final question, which is, you have started now a national organization,

00:54:42.900 the Republican Mayors Association, and you have been out articulating that Republicans need to have an agenda for the cities,

00:54:50.740 that we can't just write off big cities where an awful lot of Americans live.

00:54:55.140 And I think that's a very important message.

00:54:58.380 It's something.

00:54:59.840 And I want to ask you, what's your vision for the message Republicans should have in the cities,

00:55:06.280 and how do we end up with a lot more Republican mayors in big cities?

00:55:12.220 What's the path forward there?

00:55:13.880 I said this in the Wall Street Journal, and I meant it.

00:55:15.760 It's a two-way benefit for America and for our party.

00:55:23.320 America needs the leadership that Republicans provide at the local level because of the things we talked about just a few minutes ago.

00:55:30.760 A Republican mayor is going to, because it's part of the DNA of the party, is going to be right on law and order issues,

00:55:38.940 going to be right on public safety.

00:55:40.040 People who've asked me about that, I've said, let me just quiz you very quickly.

00:55:45.700 Every bad idea you can think of about public safety came from one side of the aisle.

00:55:50.460 There's not even a mixed bag on this issue.

00:55:52.720 If it's a bad idea when it comes to public safety, you know, defund the police, don't prosecute, shoppers, whatever.

00:55:57.660 Republicans don't propose ideas that undermine law and order.

00:56:01.180 Not every Democrat believes them, but they only emanate from the Democrat.

00:56:06.720 That's just a factual statement.

00:56:08.900 So, a Republican is going to be right on law and order and public safety.

00:56:13.140 A Republican mayor is going to be right on taxes.

00:56:15.680 A Republican mayor ought to be right on infrastructure spending and investing prudently.

00:56:21.460 And there's studies that show, I mean, have proven that you actually have lower debt levels

00:56:28.440 and you issue less debt when you have a Republican mayor versus a Democrat.

00:56:32.240 An MIT professor actually studied this and concluded that it is a statistically significant, different level of debt

00:56:40.920 associated with a city when there's a Republican in charge and a Democrat in charge.

00:56:44.500 So, we actually need Republicans running our major cities because 80% of Americans live in cities.

00:56:51.960 By 2050, that number is going to be 90%.

00:56:54.380 So, the country actually needs the leadership.

00:56:56.980 But I'm actually telling you as a group of partisans, we actually have to pay attention to this.

00:57:02.400 And I think we have to pay attention to it because I, in my heart of hearts, believe that by being competitive in the cities,

00:57:12.800 by basically re-engaging, because we were once engaged.

00:57:16.060 There was a Republican mayor's association at one time.

00:57:18.600 It had a similar name.

00:57:19.860 It was like the Republican conference.

00:57:21.900 It was during the Ford administration.

00:57:24.000 And at some point, we just lost interest in competing at that level.

00:57:29.100 And it sort of just faded away.

00:57:30.740 But it was very active at one time.

00:57:32.620 And we were more competitive in our cities at one time.

00:57:35.080 We need to get more competitive there again because the margin of victory at the state level,

00:57:41.440 in states like Wisconsin, in states like Michigan, in states like Pennsylvania,

00:57:45.940 is the difference between performing at the city level in, you ready, Madison, Green Bay,

00:57:55.540 and in Detroit, and in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, by just 5 or 10 percentage points better.

00:58:03.220 So, in other words, engaging in the cities in a more significant way

00:58:06.920 and having the GOP brand associated with the things we're talking about at the local level,

00:58:12.240 it doesn't take that many votes.

00:58:14.020 And now, all of a sudden, the whole state is no longer lock, stock, and barrel going one direction

00:58:20.900 because of the advantage that's been run up in the cities.

00:58:23.500 You've cut into the advantage that the cities have.

00:58:26.780 You know, Eric, I'll tell you on that point.

00:58:30.140 So, Heidi and I met 25 years ago when we were both working on the George W. Bush campaign in 2000,

00:58:36.360 the presidential campaign.

00:58:38.120 And actually, in that campaign, you know, I was a young 29-year-old staffer.

00:58:42.220 But I wrote a memo urging that the campaign consider, at the time, Condoleezza Rice as a VP nominee.

00:58:53.520 And in the course of the memo, I laid out all sorts of reasons why I thought this was worth considering carefully.

00:59:00.120 But one of the things I did is I did an electoral analysis.

00:59:02.740 I looked at the three preceding presidential elections, and I posited a series of hypotheticals.

00:59:10.160 I said, what would have happened if Republicans had gotten 5% more, 10% more, or 15% more of the African American and Hispanic vote?

00:59:21.160 So, I didn't posit, what if we get 50% more?

00:59:24.720 I did 5%, 10%, or 15%.

00:59:26.680 So, goals that were achievable, I believe.

00:59:31.640 And I ran through the numbers, and the one that was most, that stood out the most,

00:59:36.460 was if Republicans had gotten an additional 15% of the African American and Hispanic vote,

00:59:42.120 in 1996, Republicans would have won an additional 96 electoral votes.

00:59:49.880 I mean, it lips the election dramatically.

00:59:53.640 But to do that, we've got to compete.

00:59:55.760 It's a whole different national conversation about the competitiveness of this party

01:00:02.880 if we are a factor at the city level.

01:00:06.880 Yep.

01:00:07.200 Because it's just where so many people are concentrated.

01:00:09.980 It's getting harder and harder to figure out how to win elections where we're just not even playing there.

01:00:14.500 I mean, we just, it's just not even, it's just,

01:00:16.460 we ought to be competing in every major city where we're currently just sort of saying,

01:00:24.980 you know, a Democrat hasn't won, I mean, a Republican hasn't won there in a long time,

01:00:28.500 so let's not try.

01:00:29.940 We just flipped, just in this last cycle,

01:00:34.280 the mayor, the current mayor of, I believe it was Charleston, South Carolina,

01:00:38.860 is now a Republican.

01:00:39.920 They hadn't elected a Republican mayor in Charleston in like 175 years.

01:00:47.240 So it can happen.

01:00:49.320 It can be done.

01:00:50.280 You have to run the right candidate.

01:00:51.360 He was a former legislator like I was, and he ran a great campaign.

01:00:54.640 Now they've got a Republican mayor.

01:00:55.740 So what's going to happen next is he's going to do a good job.

01:00:58.820 And when he does a good job,

01:01:00.040 these people who've been voting for Democrat mayors for 175 years are going to say,

01:01:03.200 you know what, Republicans are in charge.

01:01:05.440 The city just seems to be, it's safer.

01:01:07.140 We hire more cops and crime goes down.

01:01:10.400 And you know what, the taxes go down.

01:01:11.900 And, you know, things are just better.

01:01:14.400 The brand means something to them at the local level and not just,

01:01:19.120 the brand will always have a federal aspect to it.

01:01:22.000 It'll always have a state aspect to it.

01:01:23.360 But right now in this party, we're missing a brand at the local level.

01:01:27.960 It doesn't mean anything right now at the local level.

01:01:30.040 And we get to decide what it means.

01:01:31.540 And I'm saying we should be running solid conservatives at the local level,

01:01:35.980 winning elections, running cities well.

01:01:38.320 And then that makes people at the local level go,

01:01:40.620 yeah, I'm actually a Republican.

01:01:42.400 I love my Republican mayor.

01:01:43.880 And so I'm a Republican.

01:01:44.860 And that has benefits for people running for U.S. Senate,

01:01:48.100 running for president, running for governor.

01:01:50.360 But we are right now just aren't doing anything.

01:01:52.640 I mean, I was shocked to find that there was no one even in this lane.

01:01:56.360 I wasn't even stepping on anybody's toes by doing this.

01:01:59.000 Well, let me say, Eric, I appreciate you.

01:02:01.240 I appreciate your friendship.

01:02:02.540 I appreciate your leadership.

01:02:04.200 And I appreciate your joining us on the Verdict Podcast.

01:02:06.420 Appreciate that, man.

01:02:10.600 Give a big round of applause for the mayor of Dallas.

01:02:13.020 Thank you for coming on Verdict.

01:02:14.360 Don't forget, we do this show Monday, Wednesday, Fridays.

01:02:17.080 Make sure you hit that download, subscribe, auto-download button.

01:02:20.460 Share it on social media, wherever you are in social media.

01:02:23.580 And the Senate and I will see you back here in a couple of days.

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01:02:29.900 Guaranteed human.

Verdict with Ted Cruz - February 26, 2024

How Democrats Abandoned Black & Hispanic Communities： One-on-One with Dallas Mayor Eric Johnson

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