One week ago, the Senate voted on the most significant school choice legislation in our nation s history, and joining us to discuss it are the two authors of that legislation, Education Secretary Betsy Devos and the host of the show, Ted Cruz.
00:02:56.920And this was a problem, I suppose, even before the lockdowns shut down schools.
00:03:01.380It's a broader problem, obviously exacerbated now.
00:03:03.920So I'd like to just get into a little bit of what we mean when we talk about school choice
00:03:08.500and specifically what is in this legislation that you've written.
00:03:12.020Well, I like to use the picture of a backpack because most kids go to school with some kind of a backpack.
00:03:18.200So let's picture that child with the financial resources that go to support that child's education,
00:03:24.820which now go to a system or a building, but in that backpack for that child and their family to take to whatever school
00:03:33.380or whatever learning environment is going to work for them, whether that's homeschooling or now with the pods that are forming or micro schools
00:06:56.240How did you see this issue coming before so many others did?
00:06:59.880Well, it started when my oldest son, who's now 38, was starting kindergarten.
00:07:04.140And I began to volunteer at a small Christian school in the heart of our city.
00:07:09.040And I saw for every family that had children there, there were 10 or 20 other families that wanted to have their kids there.
00:07:15.420But they have to raise 90 percent of the operating funds from benefactors in the community.
00:07:21.040And these families were so grateful to have kids in this little school.
00:07:25.400And I began seeing it as the justice issue that it is and started advocating for policy change, thought that through persuasion or logic that we could help change people's minds, but soon recognized that the policy change has to go with political pressure.
00:07:45.800And so that was the impetus and that was the progression for me to get involved.
00:07:52.520And that involvement has taken shape in many states around the country that today have school choice programs for families and now to have this opportunity at the federal level to advance this notion.
00:08:05.460And now at a time that we were just starting to talk about, you know, the fact that right now there are many parents who are in places that they chose to have their children, but the schools are not responding.
00:08:18.220They're not answering what the family's needs are today.
00:08:22.860And so I think the receptivity to school choice and the notion of school choice is increasing dramatically on a daily basis almost.
00:08:32.100So I've worked very closely on school choice legislation with Betsy, and we'll talk about what the Senate just voted on.
00:08:39.740But I've done numerous events with her at the Department of Education at the White House.
00:08:44.980And some of the most powerful things that she's done is that she brings in actual students.
00:08:50.160She brings in often high school kids that are typically African-American or Hispanic.
00:08:57.100They're invariably low income, and they just tell their stories.
00:09:02.140They tell their stories about really being in rough, challenging environments and what it meant for them when they got a scholarship, when they went to a charter school, when they were given a lifeline where otherwise they were going to drown.
00:09:19.940And, you know, I have to say, like, Betsy and I both participated in a roundtable at the White House with the president on this and a number of these students.
00:09:29.000And the press wouldn't cover the students.
00:09:31.720Give me a 15-year-old black kid who is desperately saying, please give me an education.
00:09:38.440Thank you, Secretary DeVos, for fighting for my education.
00:09:41.200And the 6 o'clock news will not air it.
00:09:44.340I mean, it is like the oxygen sucked out of the room.
00:09:48.980They don't want you to hear these stories.
00:10:58.460Yeah, and she just, you know, she's one of hundreds of thousands of kids who've had, you know, scholarships funded by private benefactors in places where they don't have school choice.
00:11:11.260But I think about, you talked about the charter schools and the demand for charters.
00:11:17.060There are over a million families on wait lists for charter schools around the country.
00:11:21.680And yet, we have the teachers union combating even charter schools, publicly funded public schools, simply because they're organized differently.
00:11:34.320As you say, Senator, we talk about this term social justice, we throw it around you.
00:11:38.900You do wonder about regular old justice, you know, the old term of giving people what they deserve and treating people fairly.
00:11:45.280And this is at the heart of this issue.
00:11:48.540And, Madam Secretary, I would like to turn from school choice and lower education up to higher education because I know you have focused on a justice issue there as well.
00:12:00.740And for those, it's a little bit of a complex issue.
00:12:03.160But it seems to me from the outside that there are campus tribunals that have been trying students for crimes outside of the criminal justice system with no respect, basically, for due process.
00:12:16.400And very few people had taken it up until you took over your job.
00:12:20.040Well, I remember when Title IX went into, the law went into effect.
00:12:26.360And, of course, it was originally to ensure that young women had equal access to sporting opportunities.
00:12:33.400And so when I came into this job and realized very quickly what a serious overreach the Obama administration had made into this issue by issuing their Dear Colleague letter, which essentially told campuses and institutions how to handle matters of sexual misconduct on campus,
00:12:54.180but dramatically restricted and took away what we would consider fundamental rights, due process rights, and the presumption of innocence.
00:13:04.260And in the process, countless students were getting hurt on both sides of the issue.
00:13:10.140So we went, as you know, we went through the formal process, the formal rulemaking process to put clarity to this and to restore balance and fairness and to give all students the comfort and the knowledge that if they are ever in such a situation, they have a process to rely on that is going to be just and fair for everyone.
00:13:35.160So let me, one thing you mentioned that I want to pause and reflect on, you know, all of us were taught growing up that the way something becomes a law is it passes the House, it passes the Senate, it's signed by the President, and then you have legislation.
00:13:48.780But what you just mentioned there is that that was not, in fact, what the Obama administration did.
00:13:59.180So they issued a letter to education institutions saying, this is how you must handle these matters on your campuses, and completely circumvented the proper process as established by Congress, and basically did as they did in many other areas, which was simply decree their political agenda by, you know, writing a Dear Colleague letter and signing it.
00:14:25.680And so I, you know, rescinded it very soon after taking office and began the process of going through the whole Administrative Procedures Act, which now has, it carries the force of law.
00:14:40.700But importantly, it puts a framework around these issues that is fair and reliable for everyone involved.
00:14:49.960So, in the hyper-partisan world we live in, the Twitter world has characterized the Department of Education rules as essentially condoning sexual assault, saying that we're not going to punish sexual assault on college campuses.
00:15:08.960What it does is actually give survivors complete control over what happens.
00:15:14.820And it ensures that schools, if they report some incident or misconduct, that schools have to immediately provide supportive measures, whether that be changing dorm rooms or class schedules or issuing a no-contact order.
00:15:31.680And then that individual, that complainant is the one who's in charge of what happens next, whether they want to file a formal complaint or not, whether they want to proceed with other additional formal action or not.
00:15:46.480But the process is very clearly articulated, putting that individual in charge of what happens and ensuring that they can continue to, according to Title IX, that they can continue to access their education in an equal manner.
00:16:03.080Well, and in the American justice system, due process is a regular feature.
00:16:09.660It's a constitutionally mandated feature of criminal trials so that if Michael goes out and kills someone on the street, which, by the way, he does often, just be aware of that.
00:16:22.220Even if he's a murderer, if he gets arrested and prosecuted, he's entitled to due process, which means he'll have a lawyer appointed.
00:16:32.820He'll be able to cross-examine witnesses.
00:16:35.660So if you and I walk upstairs and see him commit the crime and we go on the stand and say it was him, that was that Knowles guy.
00:16:42.700I tell you, I saw him. It was that same light blue suit.
00:16:46.320That guy was rooting for the Lakers, I think.
00:16:47.900But he has the right to cross-examine the witnesses.
00:16:52.340He has the right to see the evidence against him and to contest the charges.
00:16:56.560All of that's true if you're charged with murder.
00:16:59.700But yet, because of the Obama administration, for a 18, 19-year-old kid facing an allegation on campus, in a lot of instances, they weren't given the basic due process any other American would be given.
00:17:14.860Yeah. And hundreds of cases that were ultimately overturned in the courts because they didn't handle it appropriately and they didn't afford due process to the individual.
00:17:23.960Because I see the question you're raising, Senator, which is, you know, this issue has been so demagogued.
00:17:30.040But I think it just comes back to that point you raised, which I think we should keep coming back to.
00:18:14.260He disputes the claims, but there is an allegation, a serious allegation of an alleged victim who's come forward and charged him with forcible sexual assault.
00:18:49.100You have to assume if Joe Biden wins, that he promised he won't have an education secretary like Betsy DeVos.
00:18:57.100I fully expect them to try to reverse the rules protecting due process that the Department of Education has put in and to try to return to the star chamber if there's an accusation the student's life is destroyed regardless of the evidence.
00:19:12.740So, not to mention school choice, and as we've talked about this podcast, as you know, I've got a new book coming out October 6th called One Vote Away about the Supreme Court.
00:19:24.400There's an entire chapter in the book on school choice, and I talk about there's a landmark case at the Supreme Court called Zelman v. Simmons-Harris where it was a challenge to the Ohio school choice program, and the court upheld it 5-4.
00:19:41.840One radical leftist that Joe Biden would happily appoint would vote to strike down every school choice program in America.
00:19:49.080I mean, it is – that's something – you don't talk about something in the election that people don't realize is on the ballot.
00:19:55.920It's part of the reason I wrote this book to focus on all of the different constitutional rights that are hanging in the balance.
00:20:01.300The Senate just voted on a targeted emergency relief package directed at COVID and the economic disaster.
00:20:10.660On the education side, it took a long time for the Republicans to unite.
00:20:15.580And in particular, I held out my vote, and I said, I'm not going to support it unless you include school choice provisions and the school choice provisions that I authored and introduced with Betsy at the Department of Education.
00:20:32.600And what the provision is, it is $5 billion a year in federal tax credits for individuals or companies that make contributions to scholarship-granting organizations.
00:20:46.060And it's dollar-for-dollar tax credits so that if you write a check to a scholarship-granting organization in your home state, you get a credit on your taxes.
00:20:53.980What that means is that's $5 billion of new funds that go to scholarships for K-12 education that the state's implements, the state's design, so they can vary depending on the needs in each state.
00:21:06.680But you look at all the kids right now who are trapped at home, whose schools aren't meeting, they aren't teaching, they aren't learning.
00:21:13.660That's an immediate infusion of $5 billion a year of scholarship for those kids to get.
00:21:20.120And by the way, it also includes kids with disabilities that need special treatment, special therapies.
00:21:25.040A lot of kids with disabilities are getting completely left behind right now.
00:21:29.520It was the most far-reaching school choice provision ever voted on.
00:21:35.060Much of the Senate Republican Conference fought me.
00:21:37.720Betsy and I were talking repeatedly on the phone over and over again throughout this.
00:21:44.120And so Mike and I both, we told the conference, said it's real simple.
00:21:47.180If you include the school choice provisions, we'll vote yes.
00:21:51.100If you don't include them, we'll vote no.
00:21:53.580And so they couldn't get to 50 without us.
00:21:55.440And it was, I mean, you want to talk about a battle.
00:21:58.160And we had some conference calls where my colleagues in the Republican Conference were yelling at me, were screaming, were opposed, were saying they're absolutely not going to do it.
00:22:07.140But we made very clear, we talked in another podcast about Israel and the importance of lack of ambiguity.
00:22:15.560We made very clear, if you want our votes, include the bill.
00:22:18.640The end of the day, Republican leadership included the bill.
00:22:21.880And we united the Republican Conference.
00:22:46.240And Ted, kudos to you and to Mike for a really standing firm on that.
00:22:52.540And I think, actually, if you were to query most of your colleagues, they would say they realize more today why that is important.
00:23:02.440And I expect that going forward, there's going to be much broader support because they're seeing today the families that need it and want it, and they can't deny it any longer.
00:23:14.000And before I let you go, I know we only have a couple minutes left, but I would be remiss if I didn't ask.
00:23:18.980I know there are a lot of families that are wondering right now when the schools are going to reopen.
00:23:22.780On the point of clarity, we know that a lot of teacher unions have been opposed to the reopening.
00:23:29.080So what is that battle looking like, and what is that timeline looking like?
00:23:33.100Well, every district makes that decision themselves in concert, perhaps, with their state leadership.
00:23:39.180But the president and I have been very, very explicit about the fact that families need to have the option of kids going to school in person.
00:23:48.860The ones who are being hurt the most are the ones who need to be there in person the most.
00:23:53.840And so we will continue to beat that drum.
00:23:56.240And I urge and encourage parents across the country to raise their voices.
00:24:01.900They're being denied hearing in all too many places.
00:24:05.280I think right here of Fairfax County, right outside of Washington, where they were going to offer two days a week in person.