00:03:16.920But if he's talking to the Russians on behalf of the CIA, that's very different than if he's running around with Russian agents.
00:03:22.880CIA said, oh, yeah, he's a source for us.
00:03:25.880And the FBI lawyer fraudulently altered that that email and added the words is not a source, literally turned it to the opposite of what it said.
00:03:36.780I mean, reversed its meaning 180 degrees, and they used that as the basis for a submission to the federal court.
00:03:44.680Comey, being slippery as he is, said, no, no, no, that's not what the inspector general concluded.
00:03:51.080And fortunately, I had the IG report right in front of me, so I pulled it over and read the damn quote from the report.
00:03:57.100And he just he had nothing to say on that.
00:04:00.880I like this dichotomy that you drew between incompetence and corruption.
00:04:05.680I think even I and I think for so many people who are listening who don't have the time to go through all of the aspects of what this means for spying on the Trump campaign and the Russian collusion narrative and on and on and on.
00:04:20.460And it's complicated. It's hard to figure out.
00:04:22.680It is hard to figure out. And we know that bureaucracies are incompetent a lot of the time.
00:04:26.920So I think even a lot of us who are pretty conservative will say, OK, maybe we'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
00:04:31.660But what you're pointing to here is, one, the language that Comey uses, this passive voice, which he always uses, is designed to push away any sort of guilt.
00:04:41.380And we can we can read in the report that there was flagrant, intentional dishonesty.
00:04:47.620Yeah. A couple of additional observations.
00:04:52.320Comey at the hearing today and at the press all the time makes all these aspersions, like he said at the hearing, I think the Russians have something on Trump.
00:05:00.480And mind you, he has no basis. He was leading the FBI.
00:05:03.560It used to be that that you actually have something based on evidence rather than just making making wild accusations.
00:05:11.520But but listen, I know James Comey not well, but I've dealt with him for a number of years.
00:05:16.740I think Comey was deeply, deeply political, small people, political in the maneuvering.
00:05:25.280And I think Comey had delusions of grandeur.
00:05:29.380He worked in the J. Edgar Hoover building, which is the headquarters of the FBI.
00:05:32.540And I think he thought he was J. Edgar Hoover.
00:05:35.100I mean, Hoover famously abused the power of head of the FBI and basically blackmailed people, had, you know, all sorts of incriminating information on lots of players.
00:05:46.400And I think Comey, look, Comey played a role in 2016 in torpedoing Hillary at the end and then in exonerating Hillary and going back and forth.
00:05:55.860And I think he was playing politics and then I think he felt guilty about the role he played in Hillary.
00:06:01.660And I think he hated Trump and he was perfectly happy to have the FBI be a political weapon.
00:06:39.160I think Bill Barr is doing a terrific job.
00:06:41.580I think if anyone can ensure some accountability, it's Barr.
00:06:45.000That being said, it's been four years and there hasn't been much of any.
00:06:48.760And, you know, one of the things I asked Comey about is is he testified under oath and under penalty of perjury that he had never leaked to the press and that he'd never authorized anyone to leak to the press concerning this.
00:07:00.840Andrew McCabe, who was his deputy, has publicly stated that he leaked to the press and that Comey authorized him to do so.
00:08:04.180You know, this is an issue that gets to the heart of the integrity of our political system.
00:08:08.640And there was a little bit of a parallel, I felt, at the debate, which is that it's supposed to be the two people who disagree, right, Donald Trump and Joe Biden, and a neutral moderator.
00:08:18.860There are supposed to be neutral, nonpartisan elements to our government.
00:08:22.680And the moderator, just like a lot of elements of the government, turned out to be a partisan Democrat weighing in on the side of Joe Biden.
00:08:30.420Yeah, I think Chris Wallace did an abysmal job.
00:08:35.320I think he's consistently been a really bad presidential debate moderator because he's biased and he's condescending and he thinks it's all about him.
00:08:46.420And so you saw, you know, before the debate, he said he wanted to be invisible.
00:08:50.320But that disappeared when the debate started where he, you know, there was a lot of stomping his foot and, you know, I'm in charge here.
00:09:06.560And – but he was also – look, a lot of people get confused because Wallace is on Fox News and so they assume he must be a Republican, a right of center.
00:09:17.700He's a liberal Democrat and he's been – in the entire time I've been in the Senate, I've seen Wallace do it over and over again that he attacks conservatives, that he carries water for the left.
00:09:29.800You saw with the questions, you know, one of his questions to Trump was the New York Times hit piece on the taxes, which, you know, conveniently two days before the debate, entirely designed to be the attack on the debate.
00:09:43.220Now, mind you, the New York Times doesn't actually release the tax documents, so it's purely the Times' characterization of them.
00:09:52.220But Wallace does none of that to Biden.
00:09:55.260Apparently, there are no issues with Biden.
00:10:01.640You know, at times, Wallace's questions were almost like, you know, Mr. Vice President, are you more handsome or brilliant?
00:10:08.320Like it was – and his little – his laughter, his snide comments, there is zero doubt for whom Chris Wallace is voting, that he is voting for Joe Biden.
00:10:23.460And that's not a good thing for a moderator.
00:10:25.860Now, you know, we were talking about Senate Judiciary Committee a minute ago and how the witnesses testify under penalty of perjury.
00:10:32.600I think it's a good thing that neither of the candidates last night were testifying under penalty of perjury.
00:10:38.440There were some exaggerations perhaps in there or worse.
00:10:50.840I drew an analogy to the Detroit Pistons basketball team in the 1990s in that there were a lot of hard fouls and missed shots.
00:11:01.360And, you know, Trump at times was Bill Lambert coming with his massive arm and slamming Joe across the head.
00:11:08.460Now, Joe was rabbit punching back and, I mean, it was – at times, it almost became Jerry Springer and I expected someone to grab a chair and like throw it at the other.
00:11:57.200It was just dispiriting, I felt, for both camps.
00:11:59.520What do you think the upshot of it is going to be for both campaigns, and how do you think that they can do better next time?
00:12:08.100Yeah, look, I don't think the debate moved many votes last night.
00:12:12.100I think the people that came in supporting Trump left supporting Trump.
00:12:16.060The people that came in supporting Biden left supporting Biden.
00:12:19.400I don't think there were a whole lot of undecided voters whose views were changed.
00:12:24.100Both candidates had good moments in the debate.
00:12:26.040Trump, I think his best moment was when he called out Biden and he explained that Biden is supporting shutting down the economy, shutting down small businesses, shutting down restaurants, destroying jobs, shutting down schools.
00:12:40.640And Trump contrasted that, says he wants people to open, go back to work, go back to school.
00:12:45.860That was really important, and Biden didn't have a good response to that.
00:12:50.280Biden was trying to run away from his positions.
00:12:53.640I thought that was a very positive exchange.
00:12:56.940I also thought Trump was particularly good when on law enforcement, you know, Joe made reference to being supported by law enforcement.
00:13:05.120And Trump said, really, name one, name one law enforcement organization in all of America supporting you.
00:13:11.240And Joe just kind of blinked wide eyed and had no idea.
00:13:15.760And then, of course, Chris Wallace jumped in and bailed Joe out.
00:13:19.800Wallace should have shut up and stayed out of it right then.
00:13:37.500People want to fill silence with space.
00:13:40.540And, you know, the question Trump asked, name one law enforcement agency in the entire country that has supported you.
00:13:47.680I think if Trump had just simply looked at him and waited and there had been two, three, four, five, six seconds of silence as Biden had no answer, it would have been really powerful.
00:14:00.960That being said, the point was made nonetheless.
00:14:03.420The point was made, and it was too bad that Chris Wallace jumped in.
00:14:06.400I mean, obviously, I guess that was what he was there for, was to go in and help the Democrat.
00:14:10.920But there is this basic rule in politics, I don't need to tell you this, which is that when your opponent is destroying himself, don't get in the way.
00:14:23.080Well, and by the way, another quick example, you know, Joe Biden, he tried a couple of times to run away from some positions of the left.
00:14:31.480He pretended he didn't support packing the court or actually technically he said he wouldn't answer that question, which means, yes, he supports packing the court.
00:14:38.280He did help himself, I think, when he came out strongly and said that he opposed defunding the police, although I think both Wallace and Trump should have pressed back on him hard.
00:14:50.540And I thought it was interesting that he ran away from the Green New Deal and said, I don't support the Green New Deal.
00:14:56.200Well, if Wallace were actually being a fair and impartial moderator, the natural follow-up question to that is, what aspects of the Green New Deal do you not support?
00:15:07.400Your running mate is a co-sponsor of it.
00:15:12.560So he was able to say, no, no, no, no, I don't support that.
00:15:16.820But with no details and he wasn't pressed one iota.
00:15:19.500And the first question of the debate actually is what we were talking about on the last episode.
00:15:25.900The first topic dominated the beginning was the Supreme Court.
00:15:30.060And it was on this issue of court packing and it was on other aspects of the Supreme Court.
00:15:36.380Coincidentally, you happen to have a book out on this subject, One Vote Away.
00:15:40.140But I do think it kind of vindicates what we were saying on the previous episode, which is that however it is today, however it came to be, the Supreme Court is the dominant issue in the presidential elections.
00:16:02.800We did a podcast yesterday and we asked folks, thank you for going online to Amazon or wherever and buying it.
00:16:10.140We've been in the top ten national bestsellers on Amazon.
00:16:14.560Actually, right now on Amazon's bestseller list for political conservatism and liberalism, which is sort of an odd list if you're, I guess, a righty or lefty.
00:16:36.420And I think you'll find the book really interesting and informative and helpful, hopefully for the same reason that you find verdict helpful.
00:16:47.760Well, it's actually, I think it would be a good contrast to the debate, which is that I am professionally obligated to watch every minute of that debate.
00:16:55.860And if I were not professionally obligated to do it, I would not have.
00:17:11.920Because for this reason, you leave with actual information.
00:17:16.560So you can say, OK, this is this is ammo I can use, frankly, when I'm having these debates with my friends and I'm at the water cooler or I'm wherever at a dinner party.
00:17:26.620Well, and, you know, the debate last night, the first question, actually, Wallace asked a good first question.
00:17:31.300It was a neutral moderator question where he said, Mr. President, your position on the Supreme Court vacancy is as follows.
00:17:39.580Vice President Biden, your position is as follows.
00:17:41.900And he fairly neutrally characterized both sides.
00:17:44.960And he said, tell us why why you're right.
00:17:47.440And then so he just teed up the issue and then let them engage.
00:17:50.260That was actually a pretty good beginning.
00:17:52.300It was it was not as biased as some of his later questions.
00:17:56.100Um, I got to say the president's response, he essentially said, well, I'm president and I got elected, so I get to nominate and we won.
00:18:08.400And I wish I wish the president had focused on why it matters, why the Supreme Court matters, what's at stake.
00:18:20.320I wish the president had focused on the issues really at the core of the book, One Vote Away, that he talked about free speech or religious liberty of the Second Amendment.
00:18:30.700You know, when I was a college debater, we used to think all the time when you were in an opposition of focusing on harms.
00:18:39.300In fact, I, you know, I would say harms, harms, harms.
00:19:49.020And Joe, your justices would take away Second Amendment rights from Americans.
00:19:53.260It was a great opportunity that Joe kind of stuck his chin out there and asked to be clobbered, not in a personal attack, but really a substantive, your vision for America is not what what the American people want.
00:20:10.000And it's not how they voted in 2014 in the Senate and 2016 in the Senate and the presidency or in 2018 in the Senate.
00:20:52.960What changes could be made to make the debates more effective or, I'll add, listenable?
00:20:59.080Um, look, at some level, it's impossible if the two are going to yell at each other.
00:21:08.580President Trump in particular want like is looking for a brawl.
00:21:13.740I actually think he would be better off sort of ratcheting down a little bit and engaging in a more more of a conversation and discussion.
00:21:23.220Um, but I think it would be benefited from having moderators.
00:21:28.460I think rather than pretending people are unbiased, we ought to just admit.
00:21:33.040So I'd have a Republican moderator, a Democratic moderator.
00:21:36.780I'd have a, you know, how about have Sean Hannity and Rachel Maddow moderate a debate together?
00:21:43.140And everyone will know which hat they're wearing or, um, you know, or Mark Levin or, or Rush Limbaugh or Michael Knowles or Ben Shapiro.
00:21:53.380I mean, I mean, can you imagine Ben moderating a debate and fine, get some whatever smart, lefty, lefty Ben Shapiro and Chris Hayes.
00:22:00.560That would actually be an interesting debate.
00:22:03.460Now, everyone gets that, that Shapiro would ask questions.
00:22:06.880He's coming from a perspective and Hayes is coming from a perspective and they would ask questions to advance their perspectives.
00:22:12.980I think that actually be a more honest debate and interesting debate because it would expose the weaknesses of both sides and help people make, make an intelligent decision.