Verdict with Ted Cruz - July 18, 2020


Jon Voight Is a National Treasure


Episode Stats

Length

44 minutes

Words per Minute

171.42024

Word Count

7,643

Sentence Count

642

Misogynist Sentences

4

Hate Speech Sentences

10


Summary

Actor Jon Voight joins Ted Cruz on Verdict with Ted Cruz to discuss his career, his political views, and what it's like to be a star in Hollywood. Ted and Jon talk about Jon's early days in Hollywood, how he got started in the business, and how he became one of the most respected actors of his time.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.
00:00:04.380 Hi, I'm Jon Voight, and I'm on a set in Burbank, California,
00:00:07.960 and I'm looking at the beautiful face of Ted Cruz,
00:00:10.740 and this is Michael Knowles, who's the boss.
00:00:13.780 We're on Verdict with Ted Cruz.
00:00:21.540 Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz.
00:00:23.940 As Jon just said, I'm Michael Knowles.
00:00:26.880 It is so good to be here because we're at a time of great tension,
00:00:30.740 lockdown, plague, riots.
00:00:32.840 Everyone seems to be very tense.
00:00:34.220 And in this town in particular, it is so nice to be among friends,
00:00:38.300 including one of the great American actors, Academy Award winner,
00:00:41.620 and more importantly, I would say, Jon, great American, Jon Voight.
00:00:46.220 Thank you so much, Michael.
00:00:47.720 Yeah.
00:00:48.580 I thought you were going to say, I usually say,
00:00:51.180 I say the man who did, you know, Midnight Cowboy,
00:00:54.280 the coming home, runaway train, and of course, the great anaconda.
00:00:58.240 Yes.
00:00:59.220 And people laugh when they say that.
00:01:00.960 And with two little girls, the national treasures,
00:01:03.480 I've got to tell you that that is popular in the Cruz household.
00:01:07.400 Well, I'm very pleased about that because, as you know,
00:01:10.540 I'm crazy about your two gals.
00:01:12.740 By the way, I do need to ask the president,
00:01:14.980 the next time I'm at the White House,
00:01:16.220 if I can check on the Resolute desk to see if anything is hidden.
00:01:19.100 Aha.
00:01:20.040 Yes.
00:01:20.440 You just kind of wonder if they're—
00:01:22.460 Maybe we can go in together.
00:01:23.480 That'd be fun.
00:01:24.360 And get our screwdrivers and fool around.
00:01:28.220 So this is not the first time that you guys have met, obviously.
00:01:31.800 Senator Cruz, you've spent a bit of time in Hollywood.
00:01:33.980 Jon, you've spent a lot of time in Hollywood.
00:01:35.660 And you're one of the few big Hollywood stars
00:01:39.080 who has been open about your political views,
00:01:42.300 and increasingly so over the past few years
00:01:45.000 as we face these national problems.
00:01:46.340 So actually, the first time Jon and I met was 2013.
00:01:50.440 And I was newly elected to the Senate,
00:01:52.480 and I came to California to speak to Friends of Ape.
00:01:56.460 Yeah.
00:01:57.060 Which, as you know, was a group of conservative, libertarian,
00:02:01.220 right-of-center people in entertainment.
00:02:03.580 And it was a big crowd.
00:02:05.660 Probably 400 or 500 people came out.
00:02:07.820 And I have never—I've never been in any other group
00:02:12.160 where people were afraid.
00:02:14.240 Like, there was a rule, no cell phones, no pictures.
00:02:17.000 And there were a handful of big stars.
00:02:20.880 And Jon was the most notable who was, like, open.
00:02:23.220 He was willing to be there.
00:02:24.880 And Jon's a big enough deal that it was like,
00:02:27.640 all right, to hell with it.
00:02:28.340 I'm here and deal with it.
00:02:30.540 But it made a real impression on me
00:02:33.260 that the people who were there,
00:02:35.980 the gaffers, the carpenters, the writers,
00:02:39.100 the lighting folks,
00:02:40.140 they were terrified if someone got a picture of them
00:02:44.460 at that gathering,
00:02:46.020 they'd be unemployable.
00:02:48.200 And it was really—
00:02:50.120 You know, I sort of joked
00:02:51.740 if we were at a Satanist gathering
00:02:53.980 that was murdering kittens,
00:02:55.400 it wouldn't have been more dangerous.
00:02:58.300 Yeah.
00:02:59.300 And that's—
00:03:00.400 Look, I mean, you've demonstrated a lot of courage
00:03:03.900 to speak out in a town, an industry,
00:03:06.280 that it's not easy to do.
00:03:07.680 Well, I mean, that's—
00:03:09.820 Look, we all know we're in a very serious situation.
00:03:13.580 It's an historic situation
00:03:15.320 that I've been, you know, born at this time
00:03:19.500 and come to this point
00:03:22.700 where this country is being threatened in this way.
00:03:25.860 Yeah.
00:03:26.180 I never would have been able to put that together.
00:03:29.420 But I saw the beginning of it anyway.
00:03:32.320 I mean, the beginning of the open hostility in the 60s.
00:03:37.760 Yep.
00:03:38.540 And that had been produced by a lot of work
00:03:44.180 with the communist system, with the KGB,
00:03:47.900 working overtime to try to infiltrate.
00:03:50.240 Now, when did you start acting?
00:03:51.540 How old were you when you started in the movie business?
00:03:55.960 I don't want to talk about me.
00:03:58.180 I was—when I was a young fellow,
00:04:03.280 I mimicked some of the things I saw on television and stuff
00:04:07.980 and wanted to make people laugh and all of that, you know.
00:04:10.380 So that's when it really started.
00:04:12.580 And a great, wonderful comic actor by the name of Sid Caesar
00:04:16.780 was somebody I went to school on.
00:04:19.820 And I have to credit him with giving me the instructions
00:04:22.980 because the stuff that he did was so indelible.
00:04:26.200 And we just lost Carl Reiner, you know, a couple of weeks ago.
00:04:31.120 And Imogen Koch and those guys, they were really wonderful.
00:04:35.160 And so that was the beginning.
00:04:36.440 And then I really didn't know I was going in that direction.
00:04:40.140 I just was, you know, smitten with those characters.
00:04:44.600 And then later on, I made a serious effort to be an actor.
00:04:49.380 This was right before my senior year in college
00:04:51.700 when I realized I was walking around with a book
00:04:54.240 that was a book of criticism for the British theater.
00:04:59.920 And I was looking, and I'd earmarked all the work of Laurence Olivier,
00:05:04.700 all the heroic roles of Laurence Olivier.
00:05:06.660 And I suddenly said, after three years driving people,
00:05:11.920 mostly girls, crazy, asking them,
00:05:13.560 what do you think I should be when I get out of college?
00:05:15.840 And I said, I know what I want to do.
00:05:19.480 I want to be him.
00:05:22.520 Laurence Olivier.
00:05:24.020 And that's where it started.
00:05:26.440 And once I had made that decision,
00:05:28.120 it was such a relief that I knew what I would,
00:05:30.320 I could do something.
00:05:31.320 I was going to do this.
00:05:32.460 And I knew I would never give up.
00:05:35.860 I knew at that moment, that was it for me.
00:05:38.680 And probably that's true for you guys too, in some way,
00:05:41.420 that you get something you love,
00:05:43.440 and you know you can put yourself to work at it.
00:05:45.920 And that's it, you know, and it's going to be difficult.
00:05:48.640 I'm going to have to start from scratch and all of that.
00:05:51.720 I'm going to have my ups and downs like everybody else.
00:05:53.620 And I certainly have.
00:05:55.040 I've had my successes and my failures.
00:05:56.880 And I've had long periods of time without enough money and all of that.
00:06:01.840 But I knew I wouldn't put it aside.
00:06:05.160 I knew I would go.
00:06:06.400 Now, was there a moment that was your big break,
00:06:09.000 that it was like a part you got?
00:06:11.400 Did you start in theater or TV or movies?
00:06:13.960 Or what was, when did you get started?
00:06:15.740 Well, I, these are just, you know, I worked on a play after I studied for two years
00:06:25.520 in a professional class with Sansford Meisner, one of the great, great teachers.
00:06:30.060 And then coming out of that, I was just saying a prayer that I would get some kind of work
00:06:36.680 where I could test my abilities.
00:06:38.620 And I got a role in A View from the Bridge, which was a wonderful play by Arthur Miller.
00:06:44.460 And Arthur Miller was kind of producing it too.
00:06:47.880 And Dustin Hoffman became the assistant to the director
00:06:52.220 because he knew Ulu Gross by the director.
00:06:54.800 And Bobby Duvall was playing the leading role.
00:06:57.720 And I was the second lead.
00:06:59.180 And Dusty and I got to know each other.
00:07:01.180 Before I ever saw any of his work as an actor, I had heard that he was a genius.
00:07:07.320 But we got to know each other and we had some fun.
00:07:10.460 So you and I share something I just learned,
00:07:12.720 which is we've both been an Arthur Miller play.
00:07:14.900 So in law school, I did The Crucible.
00:07:17.740 Wow.
00:07:18.080 And was Reverend Paris.
00:07:19.540 And all politicians are frustrated actors.
00:07:21.480 Like I, in high school, I was convinced.
00:07:24.040 I told my parents, I'm dropping out of school.
00:07:26.280 I'm moving to Hollywood.
00:07:27.340 I want to be an actor.
00:07:28.280 And look, it's a good thing I went the path I did because I didn't have the talent you had.
00:07:33.340 I didn't have the talent to make it.
00:07:34.520 But I envy and love.
00:07:37.780 You have said that before.
00:07:38.760 I mean, there is a line they always say that politics, rather, is show business for attractive people.
00:07:44.280 I think that's the line.
00:07:45.320 That ain't how it goes.
00:07:46.060 That's not how it goes.
00:07:46.720 Okay.
00:07:47.000 Well, it's similar to that.
00:07:48.280 Thanks for that.
00:07:52.480 Well, listen, you're plenty talented.
00:07:55.940 You both are plenty talented.
00:07:57.280 And I was saying before we started this thing that my son, James, James Haven, as he calls himself, is now working on human trafficking.
00:08:10.180 He's very, very astute in that area.
00:08:12.180 And he's helping out.
00:08:13.060 And, but he's political to some degree, but he's crazy about you.
00:08:19.300 He says, when this guy talks, he says, that's it.
00:08:21.980 I, everything, everybody listens to him.
00:08:25.300 And he said, and that's true.
00:08:27.200 And the way you phrase things and the way you prepare and you gather the focus, nobody's better.
00:08:34.840 Thank you.
00:08:35.420 You both raise an excellent point here, which is, it does seem to be a lot of actors are interested in politics and politicians are interested in acting.
00:08:42.300 There does seem to be a similarity in these two businesses.
00:08:45.420 And, and I've always thought there's like.
00:08:47.060 You remember what Reagan said when someone asked, how could, how could, how could an actor be in politics?
00:08:50.940 And he said, well, how could someone in politics not be an actor?
00:08:53.280 How could they not be an actor?
00:08:54.440 Exactly.
00:08:55.220 And it's, look, at the end of the day, you're trying to communicate with people.
00:08:57.640 Absolutely.
00:08:58.360 And it, one way or the other, one of the frustrating things.
00:09:02.960 Yeah.
00:09:03.620 Go ahead.
00:09:04.060 I just say, you know, a lot of conservatives, we're not doing a lot of communication.
00:09:08.900 The whole point of this podcast, I mean, we're seeing an assault on our whole country.
00:09:14.080 We're seeing on our constitution, on our founding principles.
00:09:17.640 Right.
00:09:18.260 And, and young people, I mean, it makes you weep.
00:09:21.220 The schools aren't teaching the principles that built this country.
00:09:24.920 And if we don't explain them, how can we fault the young people for not knowing?
00:09:28.680 Well, they've been, they've been getting that fed to them for, you know, for more than a generation.
00:09:33.280 Several generations have been brought up on Common Core.
00:09:38.440 Yeah.
00:09:38.560 And this is a disaster, teaching against our country.
00:09:42.880 So was, and, and, and, and they don't teach, they don't teach history.
00:09:47.600 Well, they teach, they teach a sort of fiction, I've noticed.
00:09:49.660 It actually reminds me of a line from your acting teacher, Sanford Meisner, who famously described acting as living truthfully in imaginary circumstances.
00:09:57.800 Right.
00:09:58.140 That's very good.
00:09:59.400 Increasingly, the history.
00:10:00.200 He's good to school, this guy.
00:10:01.800 Thank you.
00:10:02.680 But increasingly, it seems like the history we're being taught is imaginary circumstances.
00:10:06.480 All right.
00:10:06.740 So I'll give an example.
00:10:07.980 That's interesting.
00:10:08.660 My girls, who you've met.
00:10:11.220 I'm crazy about it.
00:10:12.320 That they are wonderful little girls.
00:10:14.740 They're nine and 12.
00:10:15.640 We were recently with two other friends of theirs who are about the same age.
00:10:19.640 And the topic of Christopher Columbus comes up.
00:10:22.820 And all four of the girls are being taught in school that Columbus is a genocidal maniac that murdered people.
00:10:31.980 And, and look, as a dad, you're trying, you're trying not to, like, be too overbearing with your kids.
00:10:38.320 And so I've, like, asked Carolyn, I said, well, okay, look, we have a federal holiday in this country called Columbus Day.
00:10:45.800 Do we typically name holidays after psychopathic murderers?
00:10:51.040 Like, like, is there maybe another side to this?
00:10:53.780 And I'm not invested in defending Christopher Columbus as the greatest person who ever lived.
00:10:57.980 But I was, but it's the degree to which our children are being fed propaganda.
00:11:04.960 And, and, you know, you see this in the mobs that, that, that are tearing down and attacking George Washington and Jefferson and Madison and Lincoln.
00:11:13.580 Yeah.
00:11:14.060 You know, they attack Frederick Douglass, the great abolitionist.
00:11:17.300 And, and, and they don't even know who he is.
00:11:19.360 But if there's a statue of him, he's got to be bad.
00:11:21.540 And that's, we're facing real insanity here, you know, but as I say, it, it's been, uh, this destruction has, has a source.
00:11:32.960 And, uh, and now it has many sources because there's, there's Islamists.
00:11:38.720 There's, there's, there's originally Russian, you know, Marxism.
00:11:44.440 And now there's Chinese Marxism, Chinese, you know, incursions.
00:11:49.460 And, uh, and a lot of people in the United States are really wanting so badly to take down this president that they're falling in with anything.
00:12:00.180 And there's just nothing but, uh, um, there's a, there's a real lack of compass morally and they'll do anything and say anything, uh, to get to power.
00:12:15.680 So, uh, we're in, we're in a tough spot here.
00:12:19.900 Now, was there a time when you saw Hollywood, when you saw entertainment get, get worse, get, get markedly more intolerant?
00:12:29.640 Um, I mean, is there a point that sort of stands out to your mind as a shifting point or was it more gradual?
00:12:35.080 Well, she was, I mean, it's, it's a good question, Ted.
00:12:39.340 I think the movies that I love, I was, I was raised at a time, I was born in 1938 and I was raised on the golden age movies.
00:12:50.240 The movies of, uh, you know, uh, of, of Capra and the movie, you know, all these great, when they talk about actors and when they say, John, you're a great actor.
00:12:59.240 You're one of the, you're some fellas, look, it looks what we came from.
00:13:03.680 I mean, you know, we had, uh, Bogart and Tracy and, and, uh, Gable and Jimmy Stewart and all those fellas were, you know, I was going to school on those guys.
00:13:15.320 And then Marlon came along, of course, and then we just threw in with Marlon, but, uh, uh, and the gals of that age, fantastic performers.
00:13:24.600 And all of a sudden, at some point we felt, oh, we're a little, we're more sophisticated.
00:13:32.560 We have more complex, uh, techniques to bring to the fore, you know what I mean?
00:13:37.900 But you look at that, the other stuff that was before, it's fantastic.
00:13:42.280 But we lost, what did they have in the golden age?
00:13:47.300 Hollywood invented the, uh, happy ending.
00:13:52.040 The Hollywood ending.
00:13:53.560 They invented it.
00:13:54.540 Who invented it?
00:13:56.000 A group of Jewish people who were saved, came here to save their lives and to build their lives.
00:14:03.420 They know what a happy ending is because they were all people who read the Bible.
00:14:07.800 We'd defeated the Nazis.
00:14:08.220 We'd freed the world from, from, from the, the...
00:14:12.280 evil of Hitler. I mean, that was a powerful... Oh, you bet. But the other thing is, you see,
00:14:18.980 that in the Bible, the Jewish people, at the end of every chapter, you have to end on a positive
00:14:25.100 note. So if you know, if it's coming to the end, like if you read Isaiah, and there's some bad
00:14:32.080 stuff is being stated, they're telling you that the future is going to be pretty dim. But then
00:14:36.620 they go back and reiterate something on the positive side. You know, that there will come
00:14:42.240 a time when the so-and-so and the change and we've reached the land of Israel or whatever.
00:14:48.620 Now, you were talking about movie greats. Did you get to know John Wayne? And what do you think
00:14:54.940 about the recent efforts to rename the airport? I mean, there's a real... The left is mad at Wayne.
00:15:01.140 I think they should call it the Redskins. Redskins Airport in Orange County.
00:15:10.800 Listen, you know, I'm very close to the Indian community and they'd love it that they have a
00:15:19.180 football team. They should keep the name and they should give these guys, you know, 75% off of
00:15:27.420 tickets or may give them tickets to every game. It's a better deal than renaming.
00:15:31.360 It'd be cool. And then celebrate the natives. I suppose this is the fear, though, is you had
00:15:36.420 this Hollywood ending that, you know, that Hollywood invented. Increasingly, though, it seems to me
00:15:41.960 people don't like a happy ending. People seem to have a much more...
00:15:45.100 Well, no, that's what's happened, you see.
00:15:47.000 How did it happen?
00:15:47.700 It's a negative strain because it's a loss of... It's a loss of a spiritual base, really. We're
00:15:59.080 meant to be happy. Human beings are meant to be happy. God is saying, be happy, enjoy. Let go,
00:16:05.740 let God, do you know? And this is the way you approach problems. That's the way I approach
00:16:11.700 problems. I say, what are we doing? What am I getting all... Cool down, man. Just watch
00:16:17.400 what happens. Do the best you can. Celebrate the day. Be grateful for your gifts and the
00:16:23.080 many gifts and stuff like that. And that's a proper and positive way to be. Like when you
00:16:29.020 see I came into this group and you can't see everybody, you can't see all the people around
00:16:34.840 here, we're all in a positive note. Everyone's happy. We're cheerful. We're saluting each other,
00:16:42.760 making each other feel good, and we'll have a nice experience here. And that's the way we were
00:16:47.140 meant to be. And we've lost that to some degree. We think we're smart, Alex. We can be more
00:16:53.420 sophisticated. And Marlon didn't help sometimes because he created this dark image and it was so
00:16:59.100 attractive that everybody wants to be dark and mean and, you know, whatever it was. But listen,
00:17:06.200 Marlon was magnificent. Let's, you know, I'll let you know I'm still crazy about Marlon. Marlon,
00:17:12.820 I'm crazy about you. Well, and people communicate with storytelling. I mean, that's what's so powerful.
00:17:19.900 And the left, they've seized culture. They've seized education, K through 12. They've seized
00:17:25.900 colleges and universities. They've seized journalism and movies. I love movies. I love stories. I mean,
00:17:33.380 when I was a kid, my dad, so you and my dad are both the same age. You're both 81. And my dad would
00:17:39.100 tell these incredible stories and I would just sit and listen to them. And you think about the stories
00:17:45.620 that are told now. I mean, I look at these protests. Are we ever going to see another cop movie again?
00:17:50.260 Can any of all the great movies of heroes who are police officers, can they be told anymore?
00:17:56.760 I think so. I think we need them more than ever.
00:17:58.000 We absolutely do. And let's take something like the great debate right now in this country between
00:18:05.120 free enterprise and socialist. You look at the movies coming out of Hollywood. When's the last time
00:18:11.160 someone in business was portrayed as not a villain? Like, I'm actually happy when a small business
00:18:17.420 owner is not murdering kids. If they're just a crook and stealing, that qualifies for a positive
00:18:24.420 portrayal. And what about all of the epic stories of our nation, of people with nothing who made it
00:18:33.040 big? And that's why people come to America.
00:18:36.980 Absolutely. Well, you know, the positive thing is they're still coming to America.
00:18:42.620 That's true.
00:18:43.000 Like the Neil Diamond song, you know, they're coming to America. And why? Because there's
00:18:48.160 nothing else out there, fellas. And anybody who wants to, is listening to me, you kids,
00:18:53.460 you're listening to me. Why do, as does everybody want to come to America? Because the other side,
00:19:00.080 this socialism that people are saying is a good thing to ingest and speak for, has never worked
00:19:08.260 ever, has never brought about anything but misery and death.
00:19:13.120 Yep.
00:19:14.020 But John, on this point...
00:19:14.680 Every time.
00:19:15.360 On this point on immigration, it is...
00:19:17.260 I'm telling you, kids.
00:19:20.320 Listen here, youngers.
00:19:22.580 But this is such a great point. People are still coming here. They're coming here
00:19:25.920 to this country so much more than to any other country on earth. And yet, it's this problem
00:19:30.800 you've identified, which is that people no longer have gratitude for their country, for their
00:19:35.460 family, for their God. It seems like we're in more of an entitlement society than a grateful
00:19:41.220 society.
00:19:41.620 Well, people want us to be an entitlement society. That's what the Democrat Party is selling.
00:19:47.640 So, oh boy. And they have really sold out completely. I remember, I said this before,
00:19:55.860 but there was a moment when Villagosa, our mayor, who's a good guy, by the way, was asked to go out
00:20:03.820 and correct the Democrat platform. This was several years beginning of the Democrat convention
00:20:11.940 with poor Obama, I think. And he was sent out, you see, as a sacrificial lab to put God back in
00:20:22.500 the platform. And to put the idea of Jerusalem being the capital of Israel into the platform
00:20:31.560 because they felt they couldn't sell the tickets. Do you understand?
00:20:35.020 I remember it well.
00:20:36.080 A lot of votes won't go their way. And that's all they're interested in. They care what it is.
00:20:42.200 If they, you know, they would say anything in order to get a vote. And they have anything.
00:20:47.560 Three times the delegates at that convention voted no.
00:20:50.420 That's right. So, Mayor Villagosa said, so that's it. So, all in favor of putting this
00:20:55.240 in the platform, say aye. And they go, aye, you know, and pretty good. And then, and the nays,
00:21:02.920 nay. And they go, yeah, nay. And it was, one was more dominant. The nays were more dominant.
00:21:10.840 Very much so.
00:21:11.400 And then he does it. Let's do that again.
00:21:14.860 He could have used better acting lessons. He didn't do a good job.
00:21:17.560 Let me do that again. Understand what we're saying now. So, and so, and he says,
00:21:22.500 God in the platform and put the capital of Israel is Jerusalem. Okay. All in favor, aye.
00:21:33.140 Aye. Again, the same sound. And nay. Nay.
00:21:38.760 And you see the people that go and have, they're actually throwing things. I mean,
00:21:43.640 there really is, this is the beginning of that movement. I'm telling you that we saw in the
00:21:47.480 streets. Right. It's right there. Yes. And, and then somebody walks up to him from long,
00:21:53.980 this big stage, walks all the way over to him and says, and he goes, he says, okay, we'll do it
00:22:01.360 one more time. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Same thing. Same response. All those,
00:22:07.040 again, nay. The eyes have it. Thank you. And he gets off the stage.
00:22:12.260 Well, and, and, and, and as you noted, that was to put God back in the platform because they,
00:22:16.820 they'd removed it. And, and three times the delegates denied it. And I have to admit,
00:22:21.640 I sort of chuckled and wondered if there was a rooster crowing somewhere. I mean, there is a
00:22:27.900 parallel for that, but, but it is some of the early beginnings in modern times of the anti-Semitism,
00:22:37.120 of the anti-Israel sentiment, of the anti-American sentiment on the far left that has been manifested,
00:22:44.940 that are now manifested in, in the mobs that, that are burning our cities and that are murdering
00:22:50.660 police officers. Exactly. Exactly. And it's. And with the complicity and the support and the
00:22:57.380 encouragement of the media. And it's the media. Donald Trump has broken the media. I mean,
00:23:05.380 remember the media used to argue they weren't biased. They used to pretend they weren't biased.
00:23:10.620 They don't pretend anymore. I mean, they hate him with an unhinged quality. And I want to tell a story
00:23:16.380 about John. This is an interesting story. So, so John is. Be careful. Passionate about our country.
00:23:22.620 Yes. Oh, we know that. And, and passionate at, at risk to himself. He's in a town, he's in an
00:23:27.380 industry where speaking out carries risks. But, but in 2016, as you know, Michael, I had a, a tough
00:23:36.760 primary against Donald Trump. I think that's a diplomatic way to put it. I mean, it was, we,
00:23:40.140 we both went at each other and he won, I lost. And after that happened, John actually got on a plane
00:23:46.380 he called me and said, Hey, can I come see you at your house? And you got on a plane,
00:23:51.220 you flew to Houston and you came over to my house. It was about 10 o'clock at night. I said,
00:23:54.980 sure. Yeah. Come on over. I'm happy to talk to you. And you went, you brought for my girls,
00:24:00.020 I stuffed animals, I think it was stuffed rabbits. And you sat in my living room for about an hour.
00:24:05.480 And you were urging me at the time saying, Ted, you need to support Trump. And, and I wanted to see
00:24:11.160 Trump be conservative. I wanted to be, and be more conservative. And you were as earnest
00:24:16.200 and you said, look, our country is hanging in the balance. And that conversation,
00:24:20.420 it was powerful because it was from the heart. It was because it was a plea.
00:24:27.180 We've got to, to, to pull our country back from the brink. And I did, I supported Trump. I campaigned
00:24:32.180 with him. But the fact that you flew across the country to sit in my living room and make that
00:24:36.800 plea, this was not just type a tweet and, and throw it out in the world. This was.
00:24:41.700 Well, by the way, there were no cameras there. I mean, this was a,
00:24:44.040 a private interaction. I've never told that story.
00:24:46.100 That's right. I think that's the first time you've ever said it publicly.
00:24:48.800 But you did it because you care about the country.
00:24:50.580 Yes. And I knew the power of Ted. I knew it was important that we can't lose Ted.
00:24:57.160 And, and I had seen, I had seen Ted with his filibuster. And I was so impressed with it.
00:25:05.760 And I listened to a lot of it. He was like Jimmy Stewart. You know what I mean? This was,
00:25:11.520 it was as good as a movie. And he was wonderful, really wonderful. And the statement he made,
00:25:16.240 regardless of whether he was able to sway everything at that moment, was extremely important.
00:25:21.900 He was making a stand. He said, and he was doing it with a smile, nothing, not an angry statement.
00:25:29.840 He was just saying, this is America, fellas, don't lose it. That's the essence of what he was doing.
00:25:35.480 And I saw that and I said, this, this guy's important. And so I, I actually went out of my way to,
00:25:42.120 to say hello to him. And then when this thing happened, I knew, I talked to a friend, friends of mine.
00:25:50.940 I said, you know, I really want to go and talk to him. Well, why did you do that? Call him up. He'll be,
00:25:55.480 you know, and, and that he said, come on down and come on and just spend the time.
00:26:00.860 And I spent time with Heidi and the children and I had a wonderful time. This is a wonderful time.
00:26:06.780 And, and we were able to connect.
00:26:09.460 On that filibuster, on that, on that very moment you're describing,
00:26:12.260 I know that didn't win you a lot of friends in Washington. I think it didn't make you Mr.
00:26:16.640 Popular in the Senate. It probably won you a lot of supporters out here in the rest of the country.
00:26:20.640 But I, I see the same thing with you, John, which is you've been outspoken. You've been
00:26:25.360 passionate about your views, not just on politics, but on religion too. Very unpopular in this town.
00:26:30.860 And so that's it. You see, it's the same thing, but, but there's no religion anymore. I mean,
00:26:35.220 you, you know what I mean? It's like, like, look at, look at what our, our governor does. You say
00:26:39.660 you can march in the streets, arm in arm, but you can't sing in a church. That's right. I mean,
00:26:45.500 it's crazy. You can break into somebody's, you know, offices and, and, uh, work and burn them down
00:26:54.680 and turn over a police car and you can't pray. In a time of Christ,
00:27:00.860 people's character comes out. And, and, and on the left that there is for, for too many
00:27:07.080 elected officials, a, a, a, a, a deep hatred of religion, of religious liberty. And we've seen
00:27:15.840 petty tyrants, whether it is Gavin Newsom saying, you can't sing in church or Bill de Blasio in New
00:27:23.380 York city saying any church or synagogue that meets, we're going to permanently close that church
00:27:30.020 or synagogue. And who the hell, what, what politician, you don't have the power under the
00:27:35.860 first amendment. Where did our freedom to go? Where did they go? It is fundamentally wrong. And,
00:27:41.520 and that doesn't mean that they're not, there isn't government power to have reasonable common
00:27:45.880 sense. You can have a prohibition on large public meetings. If there's a public health crisis,
00:27:51.260 that there's a long constitutional authority for quarantines, for reasonable restrictions,
00:27:56.480 what you can't do is single out and persecute religious faith and treat it worse than everything
00:28:02.960 else. You can't say, if I agree with what you're saying, it's okay. But if it's just faith,
00:28:10.360 you're a second class citizen and we're going to come shut you down. You look at de Blasio,
00:28:15.980 the persecution that he's directed at the Orthodox Jewish community. I mean, it has been,
00:28:22.480 it's very revealing of, of, of the antipathy for faith that the far left is.
00:28:30.620 Yeah, for sure. Yeah. This issue, Senator, I mean, you're, you're obviously in the political fight
00:28:35.320 every day. You're in the fray and John, you're, you're outspoken and you've seen a lot of this.
00:28:40.540 You've, you've, you've, you know, you've, you've been, you've been one of the biggest actors in town
00:28:45.540 for decades and decades now. You've seen things change. Are you looking forward, hopeful for the
00:28:52.900 country or less than hopeful? I'm an optimist. I'm an optimist by, I mean, that's the essential,
00:29:05.000 me is an optimist. People who know you know that this is true. But, uh, I feel we've been blessed
00:29:13.660 with this president. I feel that this man, I mean, you look carefully at what he does day by day.
00:29:21.340 You can't think of, uh, another human who's, uh, above 24 that can handle this schedule and this
00:29:32.060 kind of battle every day. And the hate that's visited upon him, the, the, the, I mean, it's
00:29:37.440 unhinged. Yes. So, so, uh, what, what he needs is us, you know, he needs every pat on the back he can
00:29:45.740 get. He needs to see our smiles and our lack of fear in the face of this too, because he's leading
00:29:53.340 the way with that in, in, in those aspects. He's, he, and so, uh, do we have the leadership? Yeah,
00:29:59.900 we have the leadership. Yes, we have the leadership. We have many brilliant people right
00:30:04.060 now. And I said, at one point, I said, look, I said, the Democrat party and the Democrat party
00:30:10.660 is not anywhere near, it's not even an American party any longer. Unfortunately, I have to say that
00:30:15.700 it's, they're not for America. They're wed to something else. These guys are connected.
00:30:23.620 To Marxism and to those countries that represent Marxism. It's serious. So they're a torpedo against
00:30:31.480 the ship of state. There's no doubt about that. But, uh, I said, you know, there's no one on the
00:30:37.540 other side. I said, just Mark Levin. I said, Mark, they don't have anyone of stature. There are no
00:30:45.360 statesmen, no one of stature, no one. Well, look what, what they've come up with as their, as their,
00:30:52.620 uh, candidate. They, and they've gone through everything they can go through. And that's
00:30:56.840 what they came up with. There were 27 candidates, I think, at the beginning. They don't have
00:31:00.080 anything. Pardon? He's in hiding and he's not willing to take on the mob of the angry lunatic
00:31:06.720 left. He's being told to hide. I, it's. Listen, it's, it's all, this is all manipulated. It's all,
00:31:12.060 there's figuring what, how they can get him in. Now, on the other hand, I told Mark Levin,
00:31:18.680 I said, I can give you 50 people of great stature right now. And you can give me another 50 on top
00:31:29.420 of that. And I, and I believe that. I believe we have an army of great people. And if we are
00:31:36.440 directing ourselves toward helping this, uh, union restore itself, like guys like Ted Cruz,
00:31:45.360 who knows what was, has been taken from the constitution, Mark Levin, another one like that,
00:31:51.020 we have to restore, we have to go back to that essential, uh, the constitution and, and the, uh,
00:31:59.320 and the, uh, declaration of independence and all of this, the letters of our founding fathers in
00:32:04.580 support of those things. And, and the history of the decisions that were made by the great people,
00:32:09.800 uh, you know, Lincoln and Jefferson and, and, and, uh, Adams and Jackson and all of these people
00:32:18.420 right to the present, the great people right to the present. Okay. We have a tremendous history that
00:32:24.100 we can fall back on and learn from and restore ourselves with. And that's what we have to do.
00:32:28.580 And, and people are hungry. I believe for leaders who will defend America, who are proud of America,
00:32:35.760 who say, I, I love our nation. And that doesn't mean that you ignore our faults. That doesn't mean
00:32:42.820 that you don't try to move towards justice. You know, you look at the great civil rights leaders,
00:32:48.420 you look at, at Frederick Douglass, you look at Dr. King, where they made explicit appeals over and
00:32:54.040 over again to our founding documents, you know, the declaration of independence began, you know,
00:32:58.920 made the majestic promise. We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal.
00:33:04.620 And yes, we had slavery. We had discrimination. We had, that was the original sin of our nation,
00:33:09.780 but we were founded on a promise of equal rights and equal justice for all. And, and I agree with Dr.
00:33:17.780 King that the arc of history bends towards justice, but the left,
00:33:23.160 they don't teach that. They don't know that they tear it down that we're an evil society rather than
00:33:29.540 a society committed, founded on noble ideals. And we've had a long, and at times bumpy journey.
00:33:38.240 I mean, we fought a civil war where 600,000 lives were lost to end slavery. And, and, and, and, and that,
00:33:46.520 you know, you referenced the Obamacare filibuster, you know, I think that was a moment where people
00:33:52.520 wanted someone to stand up and fight. The president, the best characteristic of president
00:33:57.060 Trump is he's got a backbone and he will stand and fight. And there's so, we need that. We need
00:34:02.540 people who will defend America, who will stand up and defend police officers who are heroic in
00:34:09.280 risking their lives.
00:34:09.680 I keep saying you bet. Are you going to bet?
00:34:12.260 That's, that's a good affirming line too. And this is the strange thing. I hate to play devil's
00:34:16.200 advocate here, gentlemen, but I'm looking around, I'm seeing statues falling down. I'm seeing the
00:34:20.540 country rioting. I'm seeing a whole young generation, my generation go towards socialism.
00:34:24.960 How do I get your optimism? I mean, John, all of your peers in Hollywood, how on earth do you end
00:34:30.680 up being one of the very few to defend our country and look with, with hope on its future?
00:34:34.860 I've had a lot of support in my life. I've had a noble father, told stories, great storyteller,
00:34:45.480 just like your dad. And, uh, you know, I, I've, I've been helped and I've helped been helped by,
00:34:52.100 uh, other people right to this day. And I really rely on, on those friends who tell me the truth
00:34:57.760 and have straightened me out when I've been out of line and all of that stuff that I've gone through,
00:35:03.080 you know, and, uh, and that's where I get my stuff. And also I, I'm a fellow who, uh, uh,
00:35:10.120 says a prayer every day, many prayers. And I really, and I meditate and I try to get there.
00:35:17.680 You know what I mean? I try to get there. It's hard to meditate. People say it's easy.
00:35:22.340 True prayer is hard to get to that tone where it's really just talking.
00:35:28.340 So, so let me give you a moment of optimism. We're in the midst of a year, unlike any other,
00:35:35.600 we've got a global pandemic. We've got the great depression. We've had race riots on some level.
00:35:40.940 It's, it's horrifying at another level. Look, I got to tell you like, like the shutdown we had in
00:35:47.520 March and April and May in our family, there's never been a moment that has been better. So if you
00:35:55.260 were to ask as parents and it's, it's, it's, it's hard to be a parent. It's with our girls.
00:36:00.900 There I am again. The, the, the, the single biggest thing, if I could have prescribed what
00:36:05.820 our family needed more than anything else, it would have been cancel every event, cancel every
00:36:11.840 dinner party, cancel every play date, cancel every basketball game, cancel everything. Put all four
00:36:18.380 of us, Heidi and me and both girls in the house, 24 hours a day with nothing but each other for about
00:36:24.320 three months. And, and we've never had, so, so Heidi and I, we began during the whole time of,
00:36:31.040 of the COVID lockdown, we did lunch every day with the girls and dinner every day. We've never done
00:36:37.380 that in their whole lives. It's great. We began doing something I've wanted to do for a long time.
00:36:42.500 We've never done. We began doing a devotion at night where we would read together. We would read
00:36:47.980 three chapters of the Bible each night and just start with three. And I'd wanted to do that, but look,
00:36:52.280 it's hard. You're busy. You're on the road. Everyone's doing something or else. And we were
00:36:56.680 all at home. And I got to admit the first week or two, we did it. The girls went nuts. They didn't
00:37:02.040 want it. It wouldn't stay still. They, I mean, they were pushing back and it's been a, a, a wonderful,
00:37:08.100 we just, we just finished second Corinthians. So we started Matthew. We made it through second
00:37:12.180 Corinthians. They're actually in Galatians. We're in Galatians chapter two right now,
00:37:15.920 but it's been every night and we have conversations. We live near downtown Houston.
00:37:25.580 Every night, Heidi and I would go for a walk. We'd walk our dog at about sunset.
00:37:32.200 And the whole town, we turned into Mayberry. People were out. You couldn't get close to each
00:37:37.620 other. So you'd walk socially distance. And it was, it was a beautiful thing. And it was a reminder.
00:37:43.140 This is still a great country. Um, I mean, I point to that as a source of optimism. I have heard so
00:37:50.840 many people who say our families grew closer and that's a, that's a wonderful thing.
00:37:58.880 All right. Let me segue to a different topic, which is just the world of movies. You worked with
00:38:06.320 lots of actors. Is there an actor like in, in all your time who you were just like, wow,
00:38:13.540 that guy is incredible. That woman is like, like who took your breath away. And I mean,
00:38:17.740 is there someone who stands out? Well, I have to say, you know, when I look at people,
00:38:24.020 I just see talent. I see everybody as unique. I see, you know, like some people remember there's a
00:38:34.380 rabbi that called people. He said, how can you, he said, he was giving dollars to people all day
00:38:41.280 long, all day long, old man. And he said, how can you do this? He says, well, I'm, I'm counting
00:38:47.240 diamonds. How can you get tired of counting diamonds? And he's talking about human beings,
00:38:54.660 the value of human beings and the potential of each human being. I believe everyone is,
00:39:00.280 has, has superpowers. I believe everyone has potential like that. So it's just a matter of
00:39:06.840 encouraging them and getting them to discipline things and do this things and think positively
00:39:11.920 and all of that. And something comes out, you know, and I've worked and the actors I've worked
00:39:16.420 with, I've worked with great actors. Are there people who stand out? Yes. All the people with
00:39:21.660 the movies that have been successful for me, like starting with Midnight Cowboy, nobody was better
00:39:28.320 than Dustin Hoffman. Dustin Hoffman is a, when he, when they said he was a genius on the set of,
00:39:33.980 of, of the Arthur Miller play, A View from the Bridge, they were right. He's, he was a genius.
00:39:43.260 And we got along, we liked each other and we got along together. We were perfect for each other.
00:39:48.560 We helped each other and we were laughed with each other. We invented, okay, that's that.
00:39:53.780 And then every other one, you know, certainly with, with Burt Reynolds in Deliverance,
00:39:59.500 Burt got the role of his life. One of the great movies of all time. I mean, it, it iconic.
00:40:05.320 Yeah. And, and Burt was sensational. It was his role. You know, when anybody gets animated,
00:40:13.180 when every individual has that kind of, every individual is just filled with potential. I remember
00:40:19.800 I, I ran a class for a couple of years, for a year, a year, I said, I'll take over the class
00:40:25.300 because somebody's leaving and the teacher was leaving. And they said, John, would you take over
00:40:28.820 class? I said, okay. And my purpose in the class, I set my, as my purpose that I was going to get
00:40:35.080 every one of those kids in that class, which were about 24 kids to achieve that moment where they took
00:40:43.300 the class over where it became their moment, their class, when everybody walked around and said, wow.
00:40:51.040 And I remember this one fellow right down to the end, we couldn't get him on the last,
00:40:56.820 the last class that I had, he broke through and he was fantastic. And it was not that he could do it
00:41:05.180 every night, not that he went on to have a great career, but that night he was a superstar.
00:41:11.400 All right. Different question. Do you have a thought? Is, is one harder than the other drama
00:41:17.360 versus comedy or, or, I mean, they're both. Well, I've never done a real comedy comedy. I've done
00:41:23.600 some stuff that was funny, like in Holes when I played Mr. Sir, you know, it was a funny character.
00:41:28.900 And I, I have a pretty good sense of humor and all in every role, like with cowboy, midnight cowboy,
00:41:35.540 there's a lot of humor in that. And the thing that actually sustains Anaconda
00:41:40.600 is humor. That, that character, every line I say in that movie is funny to me.
00:41:47.120 Right. I love it. I love every line. It's so, it's so crazy. So anyway, there's humor in the work
00:41:52.760 that I do. Uh, but, uh, I haven't done comedy comedy. Comedy, I think comedy is very, uh, specific,
00:41:59.880 you know, it's, uh, it's a, it's a different, uh, different aspect, different technique in a certain
00:42:05.800 way. But we have, we, and we have people who, uh, are, are doing wonderful, wonderful work. I grew
00:42:13.080 up in the time when we had Sid Caesar, as I said, Jackie Gleason. Sure. Uh, I love Lucy. Yeah.
00:42:19.460 Lucille Ball was a genius. And, you know, we had all these wonderful Americans, Ricky Ricardo.
00:42:24.460 Ricky Ricardo. Oh yeah. He was, and he was quite brilliant, Ricky. So anyway, so it's,
00:42:32.380 it's Jackie Gleason used to, they say he didn't rehearse. He would have somebody else read lines
00:42:38.460 for him and he had a kind of photographic memory, but he was absolutely, uh, he knew what it was and
00:42:45.020 he knew this character so well. And then he would come on and do it. And they loved it because that's
00:42:49.860 why it was so spontaneous. That's why the people were listening to each other. Uh, they had this
00:42:54.820 little cluster, you know, with Art Carney and, and the gal, which was her name, Audrey Meadows.
00:43:00.220 They were fantastic, but he came on and they didn't know quite what he, they, he hadn't rehearsed it.
00:43:06.460 So he was just, you know, he was going, he was ready. You know, on, on the subject of comedy,
00:43:11.980 there, there are many jokes about politicians and actors, which I'm sure we've all heard.
00:43:16.160 They're very negative, but I, but I am struck by a positive version of it, which is that a
00:43:21.380 similarity between actors and politicians is they've got to be concerned with truth. The truth
00:43:26.340 about public policy, public philosophy, we're getting at truth about a character, truthfully
00:43:30.440 in imaginary circumstances. And, and you've got to like people, you know, this, if you don't like
00:43:34.440 people, you're gonna have a horrible time on the campaign trail. If you don't like people,
00:43:38.040 why would you dedicate your life to building characters? You know, that that's the,
00:43:41.260 that's the bright side of it. And I thank you very much. And I, and I, I got to tell you,
00:43:45.240 gentlemen, I think you, uh, you both exhibit the bright side of both of those professions.
00:43:50.440 And I wish we could go on another five hours, but we'll have to just do it again. Senator,
00:43:55.020 next time you're in town, John, thank you so much for being here. I'm Michael Knowles.
00:43:59.540 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.
00:44:09.520 This episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz is being brought to you by Jobs, Freedom, and Security
00:44:14.780 Pack, a political action committee dedicated to supporting conservative causes, organizations,
00:44:19.920 and candidates across the country. In 2022, Jobs, Freedom, and Security Pack plans to donate to
00:44:26.240 conservative candidates running for Congress and help the Republican Party across the nation.
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