Verdict with Ted Cruz - Jon Voight Is a National Treasure

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.380 Hi, I'm Jon Voight, and I'm on a set in Burbank, California,

00:00:07.960 and I'm looking at the beautiful face of Ted Cruz,

00:00:10.740 and this is Michael Knowles, who's the boss.

00:00:13.780 We're on Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:00:21.540 Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:00:23.940 As Jon just said, I'm Michael Knowles.

00:00:26.880 It is so good to be here because we're at a time of great tension,

00:00:30.740 lockdown, plague, riots.

00:00:32.840 Everyone seems to be very tense.

00:00:34.220 And in this town in particular, it is so nice to be among friends,

00:00:38.300 including one of the great American actors, Academy Award winner,

00:00:41.620 and more importantly, I would say, Jon, great American, Jon Voight.

00:00:46.220 Thank you so much, Michael.

00:00:47.720 Yeah.

00:00:48.580 I thought you were going to say, I usually say,

00:00:51.180 I say the man who did, you know, Midnight Cowboy,

00:00:54.280 the coming home, runaway train, and of course, the great anaconda.

00:00:58.240 Yes.

00:00:59.220 And people laugh when they say that.

00:01:00.960 And with two little girls, the national treasures,

00:01:03.480 I've got to tell you that that is popular in the Cruz household.

00:01:07.400 Well, I'm very pleased about that because, as you know,

00:01:10.540 I'm crazy about your two gals. 1.00

00:01:12.740 By the way, I do need to ask the president,

00:01:14.980 the next time I'm at the White House,

00:01:16.220 if I can check on the Resolute desk to see if anything is hidden.

00:01:19.100 Aha.

00:01:20.040 Yes.

00:01:20.440 You just kind of wonder if they're—

00:01:22.460 Maybe we can go in together.

00:01:23.480 That'd be fun.

00:01:24.360 And get our screwdrivers and fool around.

00:01:28.220 So this is not the first time that you guys have met, obviously.

00:01:31.800 Senator Cruz, you've spent a bit of time in Hollywood.

00:01:33.980 Jon, you've spent a lot of time in Hollywood.

00:01:35.660 And you're one of the few big Hollywood stars

00:01:39.080 who has been open about your political views,

00:01:42.300 and increasingly so over the past few years

00:01:45.000 as we face these national problems.

00:01:46.340 So actually, the first time Jon and I met was 2013.

00:01:50.440 And I was newly elected to the Senate,

00:01:52.480 and I came to California to speak to Friends of Ape.

00:01:56.460 Yeah.

00:01:57.060 Which, as you know, was a group of conservative, libertarian,

00:02:01.220 right-of-center people in entertainment.

00:02:03.580 And it was a big crowd.

00:02:05.660 Probably 400 or 500 people came out.

00:02:07.820 And I have never—I've never been in any other group

00:02:12.160 where people were afraid.

00:02:14.240 Like, there was a rule, no cell phones, no pictures.

00:02:17.000 And there were a handful of big stars.

00:02:20.880 And Jon was the most notable who was, like, open.

00:02:23.220 He was willing to be there.

00:02:24.880 And Jon's a big enough deal that it was like,

00:02:27.640 all right, to hell with it.

00:02:28.340 I'm here and deal with it.

00:02:30.540 But it made a real impression on me

00:02:33.260 that the people who were there,

00:02:35.980 the gaffers, the carpenters, the writers,

00:02:39.100 the lighting folks,

00:02:40.140 they were terrified if someone got a picture of them

00:02:44.460 at that gathering,

00:02:46.020 they'd be unemployable.

00:02:48.200 And it was really—

00:02:50.120 You know, I sort of joked

00:02:51.740 if we were at a Satanist gathering

00:02:53.980 that was murdering kittens, 0.99

00:02:55.400 it wouldn't have been more dangerous.

00:02:58.300 Yeah.

00:02:59.300 And that's—

00:03:00.400 Look, I mean, you've demonstrated a lot of courage

00:03:03.900 to speak out in a town, an industry,

00:03:06.280 that it's not easy to do.

00:03:07.680 Well, I mean, that's—

00:03:09.820 Look, we all know we're in a very serious situation.

00:03:13.580 It's an historic situation

00:03:15.320 that I've been, you know, born at this time

00:03:19.500 and come to this point

00:03:22.700 where this country is being threatened in this way.

00:03:25.860 Yeah.

00:03:26.180 I never would have been able to put that together.

00:03:29.420 But I saw the beginning of it anyway.

00:03:32.320 I mean, the beginning of the open hostility in the 60s.

00:03:37.760 Yep.

00:03:38.540 And that had been produced by a lot of work

00:03:44.180 with the communist system, with the KGB,

00:03:47.900 working overtime to try to infiltrate.

00:03:50.240 Now, when did you start acting?

00:03:51.540 How old were you when you started in the movie business?

00:03:55.960 I don't want to talk about me.

00:03:58.180 I was—when I was a young fellow,

00:04:03.280 I mimicked some of the things I saw on television and stuff

00:04:07.980 and wanted to make people laugh and all of that, you know.

00:04:10.380 So that's when it really started.

00:04:12.580 And a great, wonderful comic actor by the name of Sid Caesar

00:04:16.780 was somebody I went to school on.

00:04:19.820 And I have to credit him with giving me the instructions

00:04:22.980 because the stuff that he did was so indelible.

00:04:26.200 And we just lost Carl Reiner, you know, a couple of weeks ago.

00:04:31.120 And Imogen Koch and those guys, they were really wonderful.

00:04:35.160 And so that was the beginning.

00:04:36.440 And then I really didn't know I was going in that direction.

00:04:40.140 I just was, you know, smitten with those characters.

00:04:44.600 And then later on, I made a serious effort to be an actor.

00:04:49.380 This was right before my senior year in college

00:04:51.700 when I realized I was walking around with a book

00:04:54.240 that was a book of criticism for the British theater.

00:04:59.920 And I was looking, and I'd earmarked all the work of Laurence Olivier,

00:05:04.700 all the heroic roles of Laurence Olivier.

00:05:06.660 And I suddenly said, after three years driving people,

00:05:11.920 mostly girls, crazy, asking them, 1.00

00:05:13.560 what do you think I should be when I get out of college?

00:05:15.840 And I said, I know what I want to do.

00:05:19.480 I want to be him.

00:05:22.520 Laurence Olivier.

00:05:24.020 And that's where it started.

00:05:26.440 And once I had made that decision,

00:05:28.120 it was such a relief that I knew what I would,

00:05:30.320 I could do something.

00:05:31.320 I was going to do this.

00:05:32.460 And I knew I would never give up.

00:05:35.860 I knew at that moment, that was it for me.

00:05:38.680 And probably that's true for you guys too, in some way,

00:05:41.420 that you get something you love,

00:05:43.440 and you know you can put yourself to work at it.

00:05:45.920 And that's it, you know, and it's going to be difficult.

00:05:48.640 I'm going to have to start from scratch and all of that.

00:05:51.720 I'm going to have my ups and downs like everybody else.

00:05:53.620 And I certainly have.

00:05:55.040 I've had my successes and my failures.

00:05:56.880 And I've had long periods of time without enough money and all of that.

00:06:01.840 But I knew I wouldn't put it aside.

00:06:05.160 I knew I would go.

00:06:06.400 Now, was there a moment that was your big break,

00:06:09.000 that it was like a part you got?

00:06:11.400 Did you start in theater or TV or movies?

00:06:13.960 Or what was, when did you get started?

00:06:15.740 Well, I, these are just, you know, I worked on a play after I studied for two years

00:06:25.520 in a professional class with Sansford Meisner, one of the great, great teachers.

00:06:30.060 And then coming out of that, I was just saying a prayer that I would get some kind of work

00:06:36.680 where I could test my abilities.

00:06:38.620 And I got a role in A View from the Bridge, which was a wonderful play by Arthur Miller.

00:06:44.460 And Arthur Miller was kind of producing it too.

00:06:47.880 And Dustin Hoffman became the assistant to the director

00:06:52.220 because he knew Ulu Gross by the director.

00:06:54.800 And Bobby Duvall was playing the leading role.

00:06:57.720 And I was the second lead.

00:06:59.180 And Dusty and I got to know each other.

00:07:01.180 Before I ever saw any of his work as an actor, I had heard that he was a genius.

00:07:07.320 But we got to know each other and we had some fun.

00:07:10.460 So you and I share something I just learned,

00:07:12.720 which is we've both been an Arthur Miller play.

00:07:14.900 So in law school, I did The Crucible.

00:07:17.740 Wow.

00:07:18.080 And was Reverend Paris.

00:07:19.540 And all politicians are frustrated actors.

00:07:21.480 Like I, in high school, I was convinced.

00:07:24.040 I told my parents, I'm dropping out of school.

00:07:26.280 I'm moving to Hollywood.

00:07:27.340 I want to be an actor.

00:07:28.280 And look, it's a good thing I went the path I did because I didn't have the talent you had.

00:07:33.340 I didn't have the talent to make it.

00:07:34.520 But I envy and love.

00:07:37.780 You have said that before.

00:07:38.760 I mean, there is a line they always say that politics, rather, is show business for attractive people.

00:07:44.280 I think that's the line.

00:07:45.320 That ain't how it goes.

00:07:46.060 That's not how it goes.

00:07:46.720 Okay.

00:07:47.000 Well, it's similar to that.

00:07:48.280 Thanks for that.

00:07:52.480 Well, listen, you're plenty talented.

00:07:55.940 You both are plenty talented.

00:07:57.280 And I was saying before we started this thing that my son, James, James Haven, as he calls himself, is now working on human trafficking.

00:08:10.180 He's very, very astute in that area.

00:08:12.180 And he's helping out.

00:08:13.060 And, but he's political to some degree, but he's crazy about you.

00:08:19.300 He says, when this guy talks, he says, that's it.

00:08:21.980 I, everything, everybody listens to him.

00:08:25.300 And he said, and that's true. 0.92

00:08:27.200 And the way you phrase things and the way you prepare and you gather the focus, nobody's better.

00:08:34.840 Thank you.

00:08:35.420 You both raise an excellent point here, which is, it does seem to be a lot of actors are interested in politics and politicians are interested in acting.

00:08:42.300 There does seem to be a similarity in these two businesses.

00:08:45.420 And, and I've always thought there's like.

00:08:47.060 You remember what Reagan said when someone asked, how could, how could, how could an actor be in politics?

00:08:50.940 And he said, well, how could someone in politics not be an actor?

00:08:53.280 How could they not be an actor?

00:08:54.440 Exactly.

00:08:55.220 And it's, look, at the end of the day, you're trying to communicate with people.

00:08:57.640 Absolutely.

00:08:58.360 And it, one way or the other, one of the frustrating things.

00:09:02.960 Yeah.

00:09:03.620 Go ahead.

00:09:04.060 I just say, you know, a lot of conservatives, we're not doing a lot of communication.

00:09:08.900 The whole point of this podcast, I mean, we're seeing an assault on our whole country.

00:09:14.080 We're seeing on our constitution, on our founding principles.

00:09:17.640 Right.

00:09:18.260 And, and young people, I mean, it makes you weep. 0.99

00:09:21.220 The schools aren't teaching the principles that built this country.

00:09:24.920 And if we don't explain them, how can we fault the young people for not knowing?

00:09:28.680 Well, they've been, they've been getting that fed to them for, you know, for more than a generation.

00:09:33.280 Several generations have been brought up on Common Core.

00:09:38.440 Yeah.

00:09:38.560 And this is a disaster, teaching against our country.

00:09:42.880 So was, and, and, and, and they don't teach, they don't teach history.

00:09:47.600 Well, they teach, they teach a sort of fiction, I've noticed.

00:09:49.660 It actually reminds me of a line from your acting teacher, Sanford Meisner, who famously described acting as living truthfully in imaginary circumstances.

00:09:57.800 Right.

00:09:58.140 That's very good.

00:09:59.400 Increasingly, the history.

00:10:00.200 He's good to school, this guy.

00:10:01.800 Thank you.

00:10:02.680 But increasingly, it seems like the history we're being taught is imaginary circumstances.

00:10:06.480 All right.

00:10:06.740 So I'll give an example.

00:10:07.980 That's interesting.

00:10:08.660 My girls, who you've met.

00:10:11.220 I'm crazy about it.

00:10:12.320 That they are wonderful little girls.

00:10:14.740 They're nine and 12.

00:10:15.640 We were recently with two other friends of theirs who are about the same age.

00:10:19.640 And the topic of Christopher Columbus comes up.

00:10:22.820 And all four of the girls are being taught in school that Columbus is a genocidal maniac that murdered people.

00:10:31.980 And, and look, as a dad, you're trying, you're trying not to, like, be too overbearing with your kids.

00:10:38.320 And so I've, like, asked Carolyn, I said, well, okay, look, we have a federal holiday in this country called Columbus Day.

00:10:45.800 Do we typically name holidays after psychopathic murderers?

00:10:51.040 Like, like, is there maybe another side to this?

00:10:53.780 And I'm not invested in defending Christopher Columbus as the greatest person who ever lived.

00:10:57.980 But I was, but it's the degree to which our children are being fed propaganda.

00:11:04.960 And, and, you know, you see this in the mobs that, that, that are tearing down and attacking George Washington and Jefferson and Madison and Lincoln.

00:11:13.580 Yeah.

00:11:14.060 You know, they attack Frederick Douglass, the great abolitionist.

00:11:17.300 And, and, and they don't even know who he is.

00:11:19.360 But if there's a statue of him, he's got to be bad.

00:11:21.540 And that's, we're facing real insanity here, you know, but as I say, it, it's been, uh, this destruction has, has a source.

00:11:32.960 And, uh, and now it has many sources because there's, there's Islamists.

00:11:38.720 There's, there's, there's originally Russian, you know, Marxism.

00:11:44.440 And now there's Chinese Marxism, Chinese, you know, incursions. 0.95

00:11:49.460 And, uh, and a lot of people in the United States are really wanting so badly to take down this president that they're falling in with anything.

00:12:00.180 And there's just nothing but, uh, um, there's a, there's a real lack of compass morally and they'll do anything and say anything, uh, to get to power.

00:12:15.680 So, uh, we're in, we're in a tough spot here.

00:12:19.900 Now, was there a time when you saw Hollywood, when you saw entertainment get, get worse, get, get markedly more intolerant?

00:12:29.640 Um, I mean, is there a point that sort of stands out to your mind as a shifting point or was it more gradual?

00:12:35.080 Well, she was, I mean, it's, it's a good question, Ted.

00:12:39.340 I think the movies that I love, I was, I was raised at a time, I was born in 1938 and I was raised on the golden age movies.

00:12:50.240 The movies of, uh, you know, uh, of, of Capra and the movie, you know, all these great, when they talk about actors and when they say, John, you're a great actor.

00:12:59.240 You're one of the, you're some fellas, look, it looks what we came from.

00:13:03.680 I mean, you know, we had, uh, Bogart and Tracy and, and, uh, Gable and Jimmy Stewart and all those fellas were, you know, I was going to school on those guys.

00:13:15.320 And then Marlon came along, of course, and then we just threw in with Marlon, but, uh, uh, and the gals of that age, fantastic performers.

00:13:24.600 And all of a sudden, at some point we felt, oh, we're a little, we're more sophisticated.

00:13:32.560 We have more complex, uh, techniques to bring to the fore, you know what I mean?

00:13:37.900 But you look at that, the other stuff that was before, it's fantastic.

00:13:42.280 But we lost, what did they have in the golden age?

00:13:47.300 Hollywood invented the, uh, happy ending.

00:13:52.040 The Hollywood ending.

00:13:53.560 They invented it.

00:13:54.540 Who invented it?

00:13:56.000 A group of Jewish people who were saved, came here to save their lives and to build their lives.

00:14:03.420 They know what a happy ending is because they were all people who read the Bible.

00:14:07.800 We'd defeated the Nazis. 0.69

00:14:08.220 We'd freed the world from, from, from the, the...

00:14:12.280 evil of Hitler. I mean, that was a powerful... Oh, you bet. But the other thing is, you see, 0.98

00:14:18.980 that in the Bible, the Jewish people, at the end of every chapter, you have to end on a positive

00:14:25.100 note. So if you know, if it's coming to the end, like if you read Isaiah, and there's some bad

00:14:32.080 stuff is being stated, they're telling you that the future is going to be pretty dim. But then

00:14:36.620 they go back and reiterate something on the positive side. You know, that there will come

00:14:42.240 a time when the so-and-so and the change and we've reached the land of Israel or whatever.

00:14:48.620 Now, you were talking about movie greats. Did you get to know John Wayne? And what do you think

00:14:54.940 about the recent efforts to rename the airport? I mean, there's a real... The left is mad at Wayne.

00:15:01.140 I think they should call it the Redskins. Redskins Airport in Orange County.

00:15:10.800 Listen, you know, I'm very close to the Indian community and they'd love it that they have a

00:15:19.180 football team. They should keep the name and they should give these guys, you know, 75% off of

00:15:27.420 tickets or may give them tickets to every game. It's a better deal than renaming.

00:15:31.360 It'd be cool. And then celebrate the natives. I suppose this is the fear, though, is you had

00:15:36.420 this Hollywood ending that, you know, that Hollywood invented. Increasingly, though, it seems to me

00:15:41.960 people don't like a happy ending. People seem to have a much more...

00:15:45.100 Well, no, that's what's happened, you see.

00:15:47.000 How did it happen?

00:15:47.700 It's a negative strain because it's a loss of... It's a loss of a spiritual base, really. We're

00:15:59.080 meant to be happy. Human beings are meant to be happy. God is saying, be happy, enjoy. Let go,

00:16:05.740 let God, do you know? And this is the way you approach problems. That's the way I approach

00:16:11.700 problems. I say, what are we doing? What am I getting all... Cool down, man. Just watch

00:16:17.400 what happens. Do the best you can. Celebrate the day. Be grateful for your gifts and the

00:16:23.080 many gifts and stuff like that. And that's a proper and positive way to be. Like when you

00:16:29.020 see I came into this group and you can't see everybody, you can't see all the people around

00:16:34.840 here, we're all in a positive note. Everyone's happy. We're cheerful. We're saluting each other,

00:16:42.760 making each other feel good, and we'll have a nice experience here. And that's the way we were

00:16:47.140 meant to be. And we've lost that to some degree. We think we're smart, Alex. We can be more

00:16:53.420 sophisticated. And Marlon didn't help sometimes because he created this dark image and it was so

00:16:59.100 attractive that everybody wants to be dark and mean and, you know, whatever it was. But listen,

00:17:06.200 Marlon was magnificent. Let's, you know, I'll let you know I'm still crazy about Marlon. Marlon,

00:17:12.820 I'm crazy about you. Well, and people communicate with storytelling. I mean, that's what's so powerful.

00:17:19.900 And the left, they've seized culture. They've seized education, K through 12. They've seized

00:17:25.900 colleges and universities. They've seized journalism and movies. I love movies. I love stories. I mean,

00:17:33.380 when I was a kid, my dad, so you and my dad are both the same age. You're both 81. And my dad would

00:17:39.100 tell these incredible stories and I would just sit and listen to them. And you think about the stories

00:17:45.620 that are told now. I mean, I look at these protests. Are we ever going to see another cop movie again?

00:17:50.260 Can any of all the great movies of heroes who are police officers, can they be told anymore?

00:17:56.760 I think so. I think we need them more than ever.

00:17:58.000 We absolutely do. And let's take something like the great debate right now in this country between

00:18:05.120 free enterprise and socialist. You look at the movies coming out of Hollywood. When's the last time

00:18:11.160 someone in business was portrayed as not a villain? Like, I'm actually happy when a small business

00:18:17.420 owner is not murdering kids. If they're just a crook and stealing, that qualifies for a positive

00:18:24.420 portrayal. And what about all of the epic stories of our nation, of people with nothing who made it

00:18:33.040 big? And that's why people come to America.

00:18:36.980 Absolutely. Well, you know, the positive thing is they're still coming to America. 0.92

00:18:42.620 That's true.

00:18:43.000 Like the Neil Diamond song, you know, they're coming to America. And why? Because there's

00:18:48.160 nothing else out there, fellas. And anybody who wants to, is listening to me, you kids,

00:18:53.460 you're listening to me. Why do, as does everybody want to come to America? Because the other side,

00:19:00.080 this socialism that people are saying is a good thing to ingest and speak for, has never worked

00:19:08.260 ever, has never brought about anything but misery and death.

00:19:13.120 Yep.

00:19:14.020 But John, on this point...

00:19:14.680 Every time.

00:19:15.360 On this point on immigration, it is...

00:19:17.260 I'm telling you, kids.

00:19:20.320 Listen here, youngers.

00:19:22.580 But this is such a great point. People are still coming here. They're coming here

00:19:25.920 to this country so much more than to any other country on earth. And yet, it's this problem

00:19:30.800 you've identified, which is that people no longer have gratitude for their country, for their

00:19:35.460 family, for their God. It seems like we're in more of an entitlement society than a grateful

00:19:41.220 society.

00:19:41.620 Well, people want us to be an entitlement society. That's what the Democrat Party is selling.

00:19:47.640 So, oh boy. And they have really sold out completely. I remember, I said this before,

00:19:55.860 but there was a moment when Villagosa, our mayor, who's a good guy, by the way, was asked to go out

00:20:03.820 and correct the Democrat platform. This was several years beginning of the Democrat convention

00:20:11.940 with poor Obama, I think. And he was sent out, you see, as a sacrificial lab to put God back in

00:20:22.500 the platform. And to put the idea of Jerusalem being the capital of Israel into the platform

00:20:31.560 because they felt they couldn't sell the tickets. Do you understand?

00:20:35.020 I remember it well.

00:20:36.080 A lot of votes won't go their way. And that's all they're interested in. They care what it is.

00:20:42.200 If they, you know, they would say anything in order to get a vote. And they have anything.

00:20:47.560 Three times the delegates at that convention voted no.

00:20:50.420 That's right. So, Mayor Villagosa said, so that's it. So, all in favor of putting this

00:20:55.240 in the platform, say aye. And they go, aye, you know, and pretty good. And then, and the nays, 0.95

00:21:02.920 nay. And they go, yeah, nay. And it was, one was more dominant. The nays were more dominant. 0.99

00:21:10.840 Very much so.

00:21:11.400 And then he does it. Let's do that again.

00:21:14.860 He could have used better acting lessons. He didn't do a good job.

00:21:17.560 Let me do that again. Understand what we're saying now. So, and so, and he says,

00:21:22.500 God in the platform and put the capital of Israel is Jerusalem. Okay. All in favor, aye. 0.99

00:21:33.140 Aye. Again, the same sound. And nay. Nay.

00:21:38.760 And you see the people that go and have, they're actually throwing things. I mean,

00:21:43.640 there really is, this is the beginning of that movement. I'm telling you that we saw in the

00:21:47.480 streets. Right. It's right there. Yes. And, and then somebody walks up to him from long,

00:21:53.980 this big stage, walks all the way over to him and says, and he goes, he says, okay, we'll do it

00:22:01.360 one more time. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Same thing. Same response. All those,

00:22:07.040 again, nay. The eyes have it. Thank you. And he gets off the stage.

00:22:12.260 Well, and, and, and, and as you noted, that was to put God back in the platform because they,

00:22:16.820 they'd removed it. And, and three times the delegates denied it. And I have to admit,

00:22:21.640 I sort of chuckled and wondered if there was a rooster crowing somewhere. I mean, there is a

00:22:27.900 parallel for that, but, but it is some of the early beginnings in modern times of the anti-Semitism,

00:22:37.120 of the anti-Israel sentiment, of the anti-American sentiment on the far left that has been manifested,

00:22:44.940 that are now manifested in, in the mobs that, that are burning our cities and that are murdering

00:22:50.660 police officers. Exactly. Exactly. And it's. And with the complicity and the support and the

00:22:57.380 encouragement of the media. And it's the media. Donald Trump has broken the media. I mean,

00:23:05.380 remember the media used to argue they weren't biased. They used to pretend they weren't biased.

00:23:10.620 They don't pretend anymore. I mean, they hate him with an unhinged quality. And I want to tell a story

00:23:16.380 about John. This is an interesting story. So, so John is. Be careful. Passionate about our country.

00:23:22.620 Yes. Oh, we know that. And, and passionate at, at risk to himself. He's in a town, he's in an

00:23:27.380 industry where speaking out carries risks. But, but in 2016, as you know, Michael, I had a, a tough

00:23:36.760 primary against Donald Trump. I think that's a diplomatic way to put it. I mean, it was, we,

00:23:40.140 we both went at each other and he won, I lost. And after that happened, John actually got on a plane

00:23:46.380 he called me and said, Hey, can I come see you at your house? And you got on a plane,

00:23:51.220 you flew to Houston and you came over to my house. It was about 10 o'clock at night. I said,

00:23:54.980 sure. Yeah. Come on over. I'm happy to talk to you. And you went, you brought for my girls,

00:24:00.020 I stuffed animals, I think it was stuffed rabbits. And you sat in my living room for about an hour.

00:24:05.480 And you were urging me at the time saying, Ted, you need to support Trump. And, and I wanted to see

00:24:11.160 Trump be conservative. I wanted to be, and be more conservative. And you were as earnest

00:24:16.200 and you said, look, our country is hanging in the balance. And that conversation,

00:24:20.420 it was powerful because it was from the heart. It was because it was a plea.

00:24:27.180 We've got to, to, to pull our country back from the brink. And I did, I supported Trump. I campaigned

00:24:32.180 with him. But the fact that you flew across the country to sit in my living room and make that

00:24:36.800 plea, this was not just type a tweet and, and throw it out in the world. This was.

00:24:41.700 Well, by the way, there were no cameras there. I mean, this was a,

00:24:44.040 a private interaction. I've never told that story.

00:24:46.100 That's right. I think that's the first time you've ever said it publicly.

00:24:48.800 But you did it because you care about the country.

00:24:50.580 Yes. And I knew the power of Ted. I knew it was important that we can't lose Ted.

00:24:57.160 And, and I had seen, I had seen Ted with his filibuster. And I was so impressed with it.

00:25:05.760 And I listened to a lot of it. He was like Jimmy Stewart. You know what I mean? This was,

00:25:11.520 it was as good as a movie. And he was wonderful, really wonderful. And the statement he made,

00:25:16.240 regardless of whether he was able to sway everything at that moment, was extremely important.

00:25:21.900 He was making a stand. He said, and he was doing it with a smile, nothing, not an angry statement.

00:25:29.840 He was just saying, this is America, fellas, don't lose it. That's the essence of what he was doing.

00:25:35.480 And I saw that and I said, this, this guy's important. And so I, I actually went out of my way to,

00:25:42.120 to say hello to him. And then when this thing happened, I knew, I talked to a friend, friends of mine.

00:25:50.940 I said, you know, I really want to go and talk to him. Well, why did you do that? Call him up. He'll be,

00:25:55.480 you know, and, and that he said, come on down and come on and just spend the time.

00:26:00.860 And I spent time with Heidi and the children and I had a wonderful time. This is a wonderful time.

00:26:06.780 And, and we were able to connect.

00:26:09.460 On that filibuster, on that, on that very moment you're describing,

00:26:12.260 I know that didn't win you a lot of friends in Washington. I think it didn't make you Mr.

00:26:16.640 Popular in the Senate. It probably won you a lot of supporters out here in the rest of the country.

00:26:20.640 But I, I see the same thing with you, John, which is you've been outspoken. You've been

00:26:25.360 passionate about your views, not just on politics, but on religion too. Very unpopular in this town.

00:26:30.860 And so that's it. You see, it's the same thing, but, but there's no religion anymore. I mean,

00:26:35.220 you, you know what I mean? It's like, like, look at, look at what our, our governor does. You say

00:26:39.660 you can march in the streets, arm in arm, but you can't sing in a church. That's right. I mean,

00:26:45.500 it's crazy. You can break into somebody's, you know, offices and, and, uh, work and burn them down

00:26:54.680 and turn over a police car and you can't pray. In a time of Christ,

00:27:00.860 people's character comes out. And, and, and on the left that there is for, for too many

00:27:07.080 elected officials, a, a, a, a, a deep hatred of religion, of religious liberty. And we've seen

00:27:15.840 petty tyrants, whether it is Gavin Newsom saying, you can't sing in church or Bill de Blasio in New

00:27:23.380 York city saying any church or synagogue that meets, we're going to permanently close that church

00:27:30.020 or synagogue. And who the hell, what, what politician, you don't have the power under the

00:27:35.860 first amendment. Where did our freedom to go? Where did they go? It is fundamentally wrong. And,

00:27:41.520 and that doesn't mean that they're not, there isn't government power to have reasonable common

00:27:45.880 sense. You can have a prohibition on large public meetings. If there's a public health crisis,

00:27:51.260 that there's a long constitutional authority for quarantines, for reasonable restrictions,

00:27:56.480 what you can't do is single out and persecute religious faith and treat it worse than everything

00:28:02.960 else. You can't say, if I agree with what you're saying, it's okay. But if it's just faith,

00:28:10.360 you're a second class citizen and we're going to come shut you down. You look at de Blasio,

00:28:15.980 the persecution that he's directed at the Orthodox Jewish community. I mean, it has been,

00:28:22.480 it's very revealing of, of, of the antipathy for faith that the far left is.

00:28:30.620 Yeah, for sure. Yeah. This issue, Senator, I mean, you're, you're obviously in the political fight

00:28:35.320 every day. You're in the fray and John, you're, you're outspoken and you've seen a lot of this.

00:28:40.540 You've, you've, you've, you know, you've, you've been, you've been one of the biggest actors in town

00:28:45.540 for decades and decades now. You've seen things change. Are you looking forward, hopeful for the

00:28:52.900 country or less than hopeful? I'm an optimist. I'm an optimist by, I mean, that's the essential,

00:29:05.000 me is an optimist. People who know you know that this is true. But, uh, I feel we've been blessed

00:29:13.660 with this president. I feel that this man, I mean, you look carefully at what he does day by day.

00:29:21.340 You can't think of, uh, another human who's, uh, above 24 that can handle this schedule and this

00:29:32.060 kind of battle every day. And the hate that's visited upon him, the, the, the, I mean, it's

00:29:37.440 unhinged. Yes. So, so, uh, what, what he needs is us, you know, he needs every pat on the back he can

00:29:45.740 get. He needs to see our smiles and our lack of fear in the face of this too, because he's leading

00:29:53.340 the way with that in, in, in those aspects. He's, he, and so, uh, do we have the leadership? Yeah,

00:29:59.900 we have the leadership. Yes, we have the leadership. We have many brilliant people right

00:30:04.060 now. And I said, at one point, I said, look, I said, the Democrat party and the Democrat party

00:30:10.660 is not anywhere near, it's not even an American party any longer. Unfortunately, I have to say that

00:30:15.700 it's, they're not for America. They're wed to something else. These guys are connected.

00:30:23.620 To Marxism and to those countries that represent Marxism. It's serious. So they're a torpedo against

00:30:31.480 the ship of state. There's no doubt about that. But, uh, I said, you know, there's no one on the

00:30:37.540 other side. I said, just Mark Levin. I said, Mark, they don't have anyone of stature. There are no

00:30:45.360 statesmen, no one of stature, no one. Well, look what, what they've come up with as their, as their,

00:30:52.620 uh, candidate. They, and they've gone through everything they can go through. And that's

00:30:56.840 what they came up with. There were 27 candidates, I think, at the beginning. They don't have

00:31:00.080 anything. Pardon? He's in hiding and he's not willing to take on the mob of the angry lunatic

00:31:06.720 left. He's being told to hide. I, it's. Listen, it's, it's all, this is all manipulated. It's all, 0.93

00:31:12.060 there's figuring what, how they can get him in. Now, on the other hand, I told Mark Levin,

00:31:18.680 I said, I can give you 50 people of great stature right now. And you can give me another 50 on top

00:31:29.420 of that. And I, and I believe that. I believe we have an army of great people. And if we are

00:31:36.440 directing ourselves toward helping this, uh, union restore itself, like guys like Ted Cruz,

00:31:45.360 who knows what was, has been taken from the constitution, Mark Levin, another one like that,

00:31:51.020 we have to restore, we have to go back to that essential, uh, the constitution and, and the, uh,

00:31:59.320 and the, uh, declaration of independence and all of this, the letters of our founding fathers in

00:32:04.580 support of those things. And, and the history of the decisions that were made by the great people,

00:32:09.800 uh, you know, Lincoln and Jefferson and, and, and, uh, Adams and Jackson and all of these people

00:32:18.420 right to the present, the great people right to the present. Okay. We have a tremendous history that

00:32:24.100 we can fall back on and learn from and restore ourselves with. And that's what we have to do.

00:32:28.580 And, and people are hungry. I believe for leaders who will defend America, who are proud of America,

00:32:35.760 who say, I, I love our nation. And that doesn't mean that you ignore our faults. That doesn't mean

00:32:42.820 that you don't try to move towards justice. You know, you look at the great civil rights leaders,

00:32:48.420 you look at, at Frederick Douglass, you look at Dr. King, where they made explicit appeals over and

00:32:54.040 over again to our founding documents, you know, the declaration of independence began, you know,

00:32:58.920 made the majestic promise. We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal.

00:33:04.620 And yes, we had slavery. We had discrimination. We had, that was the original sin of our nation,

00:33:09.780 but we were founded on a promise of equal rights and equal justice for all. And, and I agree with Dr.

00:33:17.780 King that the arc of history bends towards justice, but the left,

00:33:23.160 they don't teach that. They don't know that they tear it down that we're an evil society rather than

00:33:29.540 a society committed, founded on noble ideals. And we've had a long, and at times bumpy journey.

00:33:38.240 I mean, we fought a civil war where 600,000 lives were lost to end slavery. And, and, and, and, and that,

00:33:46.520 you know, you referenced the Obamacare filibuster, you know, I think that was a moment where people

00:33:52.520 wanted someone to stand up and fight. The president, the best characteristic of president

00:33:57.060 Trump is he's got a backbone and he will stand and fight. And there's so, we need that. We need

00:34:02.540 people who will defend America, who will stand up and defend police officers who are heroic in

00:34:09.280 risking their lives.

00:34:09.680 I keep saying you bet. Are you going to bet?

00:34:12.260 That's, that's a good affirming line too. And this is the strange thing. I hate to play devil's

00:34:16.200 advocate here, gentlemen, but I'm looking around, I'm seeing statues falling down. I'm seeing the

00:34:20.540 country rioting. I'm seeing a whole young generation, my generation go towards socialism.

00:34:24.960 How do I get your optimism? I mean, John, all of your peers in Hollywood, how on earth do you end

00:34:30.680 up being one of the very few to defend our country and look with, with hope on its future?

00:34:34.860 I've had a lot of support in my life. I've had a noble father, told stories, great storyteller,

00:34:45.480 just like your dad. And, uh, you know, I, I've, I've been helped and I've helped been helped by,

00:34:52.100 uh, other people right to this day. And I really rely on, on those friends who tell me the truth

00:34:57.760 and have straightened me out when I've been out of line and all of that stuff that I've gone through,

00:35:03.080 you know, and, uh, and that's where I get my stuff. And also I, I'm a fellow who, uh, uh,

00:35:10.120 says a prayer every day, many prayers. And I really, and I meditate and I try to get there.

00:35:17.680 You know what I mean? I try to get there. It's hard to meditate. People say it's easy.

00:35:22.340 True prayer is hard to get to that tone where it's really just talking.

00:35:28.340 So, so let me give you a moment of optimism. We're in the midst of a year, unlike any other,

00:35:35.600 we've got a global pandemic. We've got the great depression. We've had race riots on some level.

00:35:40.940 It's, it's horrifying at another level. Look, I got to tell you like, like the shutdown we had in

00:35:47.520 March and April and May in our family, there's never been a moment that has been better. So if you

00:35:55.260 were to ask as parents and it's, it's, it's, it's hard to be a parent. It's with our girls.

00:36:00.900 There I am again. The, the, the, the single biggest thing, if I could have prescribed what

00:36:05.820 our family needed more than anything else, it would have been cancel every event, cancel every

00:36:11.840 dinner party, cancel every play date, cancel every basketball game, cancel everything. Put all four

00:36:18.380 of us, Heidi and me and both girls in the house, 24 hours a day with nothing but each other for about

00:36:24.320 three months. And, and we've never had, so, so Heidi and I, we began during the whole time of,

00:36:31.040 of the COVID lockdown, we did lunch every day with the girls and dinner every day. We've never done

00:36:37.380 that in their whole lives. It's great. We began doing something I've wanted to do for a long time.

00:36:42.500 We've never done. We began doing a devotion at night where we would read together. We would read

00:36:47.980 three chapters of the Bible each night and just start with three. And I'd wanted to do that, but look,

00:36:52.280 it's hard. You're busy. You're on the road. Everyone's doing something or else. And we were

00:36:56.680 all at home. And I got to admit the first week or two, we did it. The girls went nuts. They didn't

00:37:02.040 want it. It wouldn't stay still. They, I mean, they were pushing back and it's been a, a, a wonderful,

00:37:08.100 we just, we just finished second Corinthians. So we started Matthew. We made it through second

00:37:12.180 Corinthians. They're actually in Galatians. We're in Galatians chapter two right now,

00:37:15.920 but it's been every night and we have conversations. We live near downtown Houston.

00:37:25.580 Every night, Heidi and I would go for a walk. We'd walk our dog at about sunset.

00:37:32.200 And the whole town, we turned into Mayberry. People were out. You couldn't get close to each

00:37:37.620 other. So you'd walk socially distance. And it was, it was a beautiful thing. And it was a reminder.

00:37:43.140 This is still a great country. Um, I mean, I point to that as a source of optimism. I have heard so

00:37:50.840 many people who say our families grew closer and that's a, that's a wonderful thing.

00:37:58.880 All right. Let me segue to a different topic, which is just the world of movies. You worked with

00:38:06.320 lots of actors. Is there an actor like in, in all your time who you were just like, wow,

00:38:13.540 that guy is incredible. That woman is like, like who took your breath away. And I mean,

00:38:17.740 is there someone who stands out? Well, I have to say, you know, when I look at people,

00:38:24.020 I just see talent. I see everybody as unique. I see, you know, like some people remember there's a

00:38:34.380 rabbi that called people. He said, how can you, he said, he was giving dollars to people all day

00:38:41.280 long, all day long, old man. And he said, how can you do this? He says, well, I'm, I'm counting

00:38:47.240 diamonds. How can you get tired of counting diamonds? And he's talking about human beings,

00:38:54.660 the value of human beings and the potential of each human being. I believe everyone is,

00:39:00.280 has, has superpowers. I believe everyone has potential like that. So it's just a matter of

00:39:06.840 encouraging them and getting them to discipline things and do this things and think positively

00:39:11.920 and all of that. And something comes out, you know, and I've worked and the actors I've worked

00:39:16.420 with, I've worked with great actors. Are there people who stand out? Yes. All the people with

00:39:21.660 the movies that have been successful for me, like starting with Midnight Cowboy, nobody was better

00:39:28.320 than Dustin Hoffman. Dustin Hoffman is a, when he, when they said he was a genius on the set of,

00:39:33.980 of, of the Arthur Miller play, A View from the Bridge, they were right. He's, he was a genius.

00:39:43.260 And we got along, we liked each other and we got along together. We were perfect for each other.

00:39:48.560 We helped each other and we were laughed with each other. We invented, okay, that's that.

00:39:53.780 And then every other one, you know, certainly with, with Burt Reynolds in Deliverance,

00:39:59.500 Burt got the role of his life. One of the great movies of all time. I mean, it, it iconic.

00:40:05.320 Yeah. And, and Burt was sensational. It was his role. You know, when anybody gets animated,

00:40:13.180 when every individual has that kind of, every individual is just filled with potential. I remember

00:40:19.800 I, I ran a class for a couple of years, for a year, a year, I said, I'll take over the class

00:40:25.300 because somebody's leaving and the teacher was leaving. And they said, John, would you take over

00:40:28.820 class? I said, okay. And my purpose in the class, I set my, as my purpose that I was going to get

00:40:35.080 every one of those kids in that class, which were about 24 kids to achieve that moment where they took

00:40:43.300 the class over where it became their moment, their class, when everybody walked around and said, wow.

00:40:51.040 And I remember this one fellow right down to the end, we couldn't get him on the last,

00:40:56.820 the last class that I had, he broke through and he was fantastic. And it was not that he could do it

00:41:05.180 every night, not that he went on to have a great career, but that night he was a superstar.

00:41:11.400 All right. Different question. Do you have a thought? Is, is one harder than the other drama

00:41:17.360 versus comedy or, or, I mean, they're both. Well, I've never done a real comedy comedy. I've done

00:41:23.600 some stuff that was funny, like in Holes when I played Mr. Sir, you know, it was a funny character.

00:41:28.900 And I, I have a pretty good sense of humor and all in every role, like with cowboy, midnight cowboy,

00:41:35.540 there's a lot of humor in that. And the thing that actually sustains Anaconda

00:41:40.600 is humor. That, that character, every line I say in that movie is funny to me.

00:41:47.120 Right. I love it. I love every line. It's so, it's so crazy. So anyway, there's humor in the work

00:41:52.760 that I do. Uh, but, uh, I haven't done comedy comedy. Comedy, I think comedy is very, uh, specific,

00:41:59.880 you know, it's, uh, it's a, it's a different, uh, different aspect, different technique in a certain

00:42:05.800 way. But we have, we, and we have people who, uh, are, are doing wonderful, wonderful work. I grew

00:42:13.080 up in the time when we had Sid Caesar, as I said, Jackie Gleason. Sure. Uh, I love Lucy. Yeah.

00:42:19.460 Lucille Ball was a genius. And, you know, we had all these wonderful Americans, Ricky Ricardo.

00:42:24.460 Ricky Ricardo. Oh yeah. He was, and he was quite brilliant, Ricky. So anyway, so it's,

00:42:32.380 it's Jackie Gleason used to, they say he didn't rehearse. He would have somebody else read lines

00:42:38.460 for him and he had a kind of photographic memory, but he was absolutely, uh, he knew what it was and

00:42:45.020 he knew this character so well. And then he would come on and do it. And they loved it because that's

00:42:49.860 why it was so spontaneous. That's why the people were listening to each other. Uh, they had this

00:42:54.820 little cluster, you know, with Art Carney and, and the gal, which was her name, Audrey Meadows.

00:43:00.220 They were fantastic, but he came on and they didn't know quite what he, they, he hadn't rehearsed it.

00:43:06.460 So he was just, you know, he was going, he was ready. You know, on, on the subject of comedy,

00:43:11.980 there, there are many jokes about politicians and actors, which I'm sure we've all heard.

00:43:16.160 They're very negative, but I, but I am struck by a positive version of it, which is that a

00:43:21.380 similarity between actors and politicians is they've got to be concerned with truth. The truth

00:43:26.340 about public policy, public philosophy, we're getting at truth about a character, truthfully

00:43:30.440 in imaginary circumstances. And, and you've got to like people, you know, this, if you don't like

00:43:34.440 people, you're gonna have a horrible time on the campaign trail. If you don't like people,

00:43:38.040 why would you dedicate your life to building characters? You know, that that's the,

00:43:41.260 that's the bright side of it. And I thank you very much. And I, and I, I got to tell you,

00:43:45.240 gentlemen, I think you, uh, you both exhibit the bright side of both of those professions.

00:43:50.440 And I wish we could go on another five hours, but we'll have to just do it again. Senator,

00:43:55.020 next time you're in town, John, thank you so much for being here. I'm Michael Knowles.

00:43:59.540 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:44:09.520 This episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz is being brought to you by Jobs, Freedom, and Security

00:44:14.780 Pack, a political action committee dedicated to supporting conservative causes, organizations,

00:44:19.920 and candidates across the country. In 2022, Jobs, Freedom, and Security Pack plans to donate to

00:44:26.240 conservative candidates running for Congress and help the Republican Party across the nation.

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Verdict with Ted Cruz - July 18, 2020

Jon Voight Is a National Treasure

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