Verdict with Ted Cruz - Killers and Insurrectionists

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.400 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.280 As the liberal establishment goes into overdrive,

00:00:07.780 spinning new yarns about the January 6th insurrection,

00:00:11.700 the Supreme Court is taking more rights away from the people,

00:00:15.560 specifically denying a petition from New York health care workers

00:00:19.240 to avoid the coronavirus vaccine mandate.

00:00:23.640 And on that point, on killers and insurrectionists

00:00:27.400 and the coronavirus and our rights being taken away,

00:00:31.340 my very own co-host, Senator Ted Cruz,

00:00:34.680 has been accused of being tantamount to a murderer

00:00:38.260 because he refuses to wear his mask

00:00:41.420 almost two years after the beginning of slowing the spread

00:00:45.400 after his own vaccination.

00:00:48.540 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

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00:04:41.160 Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:04:42.920 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:04:44.520 Astounded that here in the 12th month of the year of our Lord 2021,

00:04:49.080 we are still talking about January 6th,

00:04:53.380 even after so many of the media narratives about what happened that day have fallen apart. 0.81

00:04:58.200 The idea that police officers were murdered by these violent white supremacist people.

00:05:04.180 So many of these claims have been retracted by the mainstream media.

00:05:07.340 And yet, Liz,

00:05:07.840 we were just talking,

00:05:08.620 and you told me that there is a major bombshell from the January 6th committee.

00:05:15.120 What's the bombshell?

00:05:16.200 Michael, I think you might be mistaking which Liz is propagating the idea that there is a bombshell.

00:05:22.100 Because if it's Liz Cheney that you're talking about,

00:05:24.680 I think I speak for the American people here.

00:05:27.360 I presume,

00:05:28.660 I take that presumption to speak for the American people here.

00:05:30.520 When I say,

00:05:31.680 what exactly is this bombshell that Liz Cheney is talking about? 1.00

00:05:34.560 What exactly is this smoking gun?

00:05:36.120 Because what she did is she read in the January 6th committee,

00:05:38.980 she read a list of text messages that Mark Meadows,

00:05:42.480 who was at the time,

00:05:43.200 of course,

00:05:43.620 President Trump's chief of staff,

00:05:45.160 text messages he received on January 6th.

00:05:47.760 These are texts from Fox News personalities like Sean Hannity and Laura Ingram and Brian Kilmeade.

00:05:53.060 These are text messages from Don Jr.,

00:05:54.680 obviously President Trump's son,

00:05:56.560 all saying,

00:05:57.640 condemning the violence,

00:05:58.320 saying the president should speak out and condemn this loudly so it's not conflated with the peaceful protesters.

00:06:03.160 Liz Cheney portrayed this as if it was, 0.57

00:06:06.120 an indictment on those sending the text messages on the conservatives who were condemning the violence.

00:06:11.980 And the mainstream media,

00:06:12.900 of course,

00:06:13.220 just picked up this narrative that this was some,

00:06:15.820 this was some kind of bombshell revelation these text messages were.

00:06:18.840 And this clip,

00:06:19.860 this video of Liz Cheney went viral.

00:06:21.960 Take a look at this.

00:06:22.580 These text messages leave no doubt the White House knew exactly what was happening here at the Capitol.

00:06:30.740 Members of Congress,

00:06:32.440 the press,

00:06:33.240 and others wrote to Mark Meadows as the attack was underway.

00:06:36.920 One text Mr. Meadows received said,

00:06:41.060 quote,

00:06:41.440 we are under siege here at the Capitol.

00:06:45.100 Another,

00:06:46.620 quote,

00:06:47.060 they have breached the Capitol.

00:06:50.040 In a third,

00:06:51.560 Mark,

00:06:52.840 protesters are literally storming the Capitol,

00:06:56.380 breaking windows on doors,

00:06:58.460 rushing in.

00:06:59.240 Is Trump going to say something?

00:07:03.660 A fourth,

00:07:04.900 there's an armed standoff at the House chamber door.

00:07:09.020 And another,

00:07:10.340 from someone inside the Capitol.

00:07:12.800 We are all helpless.

00:07:16.160 Dozens of texts,

00:07:17.420 including from Trump administration officials,

00:07:20.380 urged immediate action by the president.

00:07:23.740 Quote,

00:07:24.120 POTUS has to come out firmly and tell the protesters to dissipate.

00:07:30.040 Someone is going to get killed.

00:07:32.880 In another,

00:07:33.840 Mark,

00:07:34.580 he needs to stop this now.

00:07:37.500 A third,

00:07:38.520 in all caps,

00:07:40.060 tell them to go home.

00:07:43.720 A fourth,

00:07:45.180 and I quote, 0.99

00:07:46.660 POTUS needs to calm this shit down. 0.99

00:07:51.740 Indeed, 0.99

00:07:52.420 according to the records,

00:07:55.060 multiple Fox News hosts

00:07:57.780 knew the president needed to act immediately.

00:08:02.400 They texted Mr. Meadows,

00:08:04.420 and he has turned over those texts.

00:08:08.160 Quote,

00:08:09.140 Mark,

00:08:10.280 the president needs to tell people in the Capitol to go home.

00:08:14.620 This is hurting all of us.

00:08:16.580 He is destroying his legacy,

00:08:19.000 Laura Ingram wrote.

00:08:20.340 Please get him on TV,

00:08:24.900 destroying everything you have accomplished,

00:08:28.160 Brian Kilmeade texted.

00:08:30.940 Quote,

00:08:31.540 Can he make a statement?

00:08:33.580 Ask people to leave the Capitol,

00:08:36.260 Sean Hannity urged.

00:08:38.540 As the violence continued,

00:08:40.980 one of the president's sons texted Mr. Meadows,

00:08:44.080 quote, 1.00

00:08:45.540 he's got to condemn this shit ASAP. 0.99

00:08:49.440 The Capitol police tweet is not enough. 0.99

00:08:52.880 Donald Trump Jr.

00:08:54.060 texted.

00:08:55.180 All right,

00:08:55.600 Senator,

00:08:56.160 am I missing something here?

00:08:57.940 Is this a spoke,

00:08:58.860 is this a smoking gun?

00:08:59.900 Is this a bombshell?

00:09:01.620 No,

00:09:02.160 not,

00:09:02.420 not remotely.

00:09:03.340 You had a bunch of folks saying violence is bad,

00:09:06.040 and the violence should stop.

00:09:08.040 That,

00:09:08.160 that,

00:09:08.260 that should not be a smoking gun.

00:09:09.920 I will say,

00:09:11.040 you,

00:09:11.600 you,

00:09:11.920 you noted the confusion between Liz's and Liz's.

00:09:15.500 I,

00:09:15.660 I,

00:09:16.100 I think in the future,

00:09:17.060 we'll simply refer to the greater Liz and the lesser Liz.

00:09:21.020 And,

00:09:21.460 and,

00:09:21.660 and,

00:09:21.920 and I'm very pleased.

00:09:23.660 The greater Liz is our co-host. 0.96

00:09:25.420 Well,

00:09:25.740 thank you for that compliment.

00:09:27.200 Let me just pivot to Michael.

00:09:28.380 Does this not exonerate these folks that sent the text messages?

00:09:31.420 Because these are people that have spent the last year facing accusations of encouraging or being complicit with this violence.

00:09:37.040 And yet they proved that even behind the scenes,

00:09:39.620 they were condemning this from moment one.

00:09:41.840 Of course,

00:09:42.140 I don't,

00:09:42.440 I don't really see what the story is.

00:09:44.060 You had all of these prominent conservatives,

00:09:45.980 some of whom were at Fox news,

00:09:47.540 some of whom were lawyers,

00:09:48.680 and they texted Mark Meadows,

00:09:49.880 who's been on this program.

00:09:51.020 The four white house chief of staff.

00:09:52.380 And they said,

00:09:52.980 Hey,

00:09:53.100 the president should address the country.

00:09:54.420 And then he addressed the country.

00:09:55.860 And he said all that stuff.

00:09:56.840 And that does not exactly seem like a man bites dog story to me.

00:10:03.000 But Senator,

00:10:04.380 you,

00:10:04.620 you know,

00:10:04.880 you're,

00:10:05.260 you're there.

00:10:05.740 You were there at the Capitol that day.

00:10:08.540 And you're at the Capitol around these people every single day.

00:10:11.300 What is the outcome of this January 6th commission?

00:10:14.200 If this is the best they've got?

00:10:16.440 Well,

00:10:16.980 listen,

00:10:17.260 I think you have to distinguish from the,

00:10:19.740 the,

00:10:20.220 the substance of the issue versus the politics of the issue.

00:10:25.820 The substance.

00:10:26.940 And,

00:10:27.200 and it's very easy,

00:10:28.520 you know,

00:10:29.040 in some ways,

00:10:29.580 this reminds me of the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict,

00:10:32.280 where everything was so polarized that it was either a hundred percent,

00:10:37.380 one direction or a hundred percent,

00:10:38.560 the other direction.

00:10:39.240 And I think this podcast was one of the few places that we tried to say,

00:10:42.240 okay,

00:10:42.560 let's assess what occurred.

00:10:44.060 Let's assess what the facts are.

00:10:45.420 If you look at January 6th,

00:10:47.380 it's a little bit the same way where,

00:10:48.980 where if you listen to Democrats,

00:10:50.960 if you listen to the corporate media,

00:10:53.580 it,

00:10:53.820 it,

00:10:54.200 it was Pearl Harbor.

00:10:56.420 It was nine 11.

00:10:58.320 It was cats and dogs living together.

00:11:02.060 Armageddon.

00:11:02.660 I mean,

00:11:02.900 it was the worst day in the history of the universe.

00:11:06.520 Um,

00:11:07.840 on the other hand,

00:11:08.920 there's some that defend January 6th is just another day.

00:11:12.500 That was perfectly fine.

00:11:14.320 Um,

00:11:15.260 I view it somewhere in the middle,

00:11:16.900 which is,

00:11:17.300 I think where reality lives.

00:11:19.380 Uh,

00:11:20.160 my view is straightforward.

00:11:22.660 Violence is wrong.

00:11:24.660 If you commit an act of violence,

00:11:26.620 you should be prosecuted.

00:11:28.900 If you violently assault a police officer,

00:11:32.100 you should go to jail for a very, 0.64

00:11:35.840 very long time.

00:11:37.300 And I don't care if you're left wing or right wing,

00:11:40.700 or you don't have any wings at all.

00:11:42.620 If you violently assault a cop,

00:11:45.100 you're going to the slammer.

00:11:47.480 That ought to be non-controversial.

00:11:49.580 That ought to be real straightforward.

00:11:52.420 Um,

00:11:52.720 what we see with January 6th and the media right now is hyperventilating.

00:11:57.400 I had multiple reporters stop me in the Capitol today and say,

00:12:00.820 we want you to reflect on the anniversary of January 6th.

00:12:06.240 And,

00:12:06.780 and,

00:12:07.100 and my response,

00:12:07.920 I said,

00:12:08.220 you know what,

00:12:08.600 when I hear from Texans, 0.91

00:12:10.340 I don't hear from Texans on that.

00:12:11.920 What I hear from Texans on is they're upset about inflation.

00:12:14.840 They're upset about the chaos at the open borders.

00:12:17.380 They're upset about illegal,

00:12:18.540 uh,

00:12:19.200 vaccine mandates.

00:12:20.180 They're upset about the disaster in Afghanistan and weak foreign policy.

00:12:23.780 They're upset about all of the things that are impacting their lives and their families.

00:12:28.080 But that doesn't fit with the political narrative.

00:12:31.380 And,

00:12:31.620 and Democrats seized upon the aftermath of that day to try to score political points.

00:12:39.200 And so one of the ways they score political points is,

00:12:41.620 is in language.

00:12:42.440 And listen,

00:12:43.020 language matters immensely.

00:12:45.340 And in,

00:12:46.120 in,

00:12:46.460 in all forms of discourse,

00:12:49.080 but especially political communication,

00:12:50.660 the word insurrection,

00:12:52.920 what nonsense insurrection.

00:12:56.280 This wasn't an army that,

00:12:58.580 that,

00:12:58.740 that,

00:12:58.860 that like was trying to conquer America.

00:13:00.940 I mean,

00:13:01.300 like insurrection is,

00:13:03.400 you know,

00:13:03.640 we had an insurrection.

00:13:04.480 It was called the civil war.

00:13:05.760 600,000 people died.

00:13:07.220 That was an insurrection.

00:13:08.400 Really bad one.

00:13:10.900 This was,

00:13:11.920 it was a riot.

00:13:13.120 It was.

00:13:13.940 And in fact,

00:13:14.340 I would say it was a terrorist attack.

00:13:15.940 When you have a mob that is attacking police officers,

00:13:19.140 that's a terrorist attack,

00:13:20.180 but we came out of a year in which we had an entire year of terrorist

00:13:25.760 attacks all over the country and cities all over the country.

00:13:29.720 We had fires.

00:13:31.300 We had stores looted.

00:13:32.600 We had police cars,

00:13:33.560 firebombed.

00:13:34.220 We had police officers murdered.

00:13:36.880 And the Democrats spent the entire year.

00:13:43.080 Ignoring whitewashing,

00:13:45.200 covering it up,

00:13:46.260 apologizing it,

00:13:47.280 but even worse,

00:13:47.860 celebrating the violence,

00:13:51.060 celebrating the terrorist attack.

00:13:52.800 You know,

00:13:52.900 I remember the mayor of Seattle went on TV and said,

00:13:56.000 Oh,

00:13:56.180 it's the summer of love,

00:13:57.460 man.

00:13:57.940 It's the summer of love.

00:13:59.540 And this is where leftist terrorists had declared.

00:14:02.280 Remember the Chaz autonomous zone.

00:14:04.200 Right.

00:14:04.360 The whole thing was out of a bad South park episode where,

00:14:08.020 where they declared,

00:14:09.320 we,

00:14:09.600 the warlords are in charge. 0.99

00:14:10.920 And you had women being raped. 0.98

00:14:12.740 You had assaults. 0.98

00:14:13.740 You had ongoing,

00:14:14.760 you want to talk about an insurrection. 0.74

00:14:15.920 These numb nuts were actually trying to do the violent overthrow of the government. 0.99

00:14:22.240 And because the Democrats were such nitwits, 0.99

00:14:26.260 they rolled over and let them succeed in an insurrection for weeks at a time. 0.97

00:14:32.640 And yet that became the summer of love.

00:14:35.520 There is a real threat to our political rights and our way of life that was just handed down from the Supreme Court.

00:14:41.740 So I want to get to that.

00:14:42.980 Liz,

00:14:43.440 the greater Liz,

00:14:44.360 you will be getting back to us in the mailbag though.

00:14:47.120 That is correct.

00:14:47.800 Yes.

00:14:48.080 And if anybody wants to ask a question,

00:14:49.960 head on over to verdictwithtedcruz.com slash locals and submit those questions.

00:14:53.720 We'll get to the mailbag shortly.

00:14:55.180 I want to go back to January 6th for a minute.

00:14:58.140 Because there's another component that for five months after January 6th,

00:15:04.840 the United States Capitol was surrounded with fences.

00:15:07.860 Big,

00:15:09.740 giant, 1.00

00:15:10.280 black, 0.58

00:15:10.800 scary fences,

00:15:11.780 chain lick fences that at the top of them, 0.97

00:15:13.960 they had razor wire.

00:15:15.640 And,

00:15:16.240 and it was frightening looking.

00:15:17.960 It looked like Baghdad.

00:15:19.020 It looked like our Capitol was,

00:15:21.440 was under siege.

00:15:23.480 And,

00:15:24.120 and in front of the fences,

00:15:25.440 you had thousands of national guardsmen.

00:15:28.400 Now the national guardsmen are there in,

00:15:31.040 in uniform,

00:15:31.880 in camo,

00:15:32.600 and they're holding machine guns with no magazines.

00:15:36.800 They had no bullets in them.

00:15:39.020 And,

00:15:39.620 and it was the most absurd exercise of political theater.

00:15:44.660 Why did that happen?

00:15:45.880 It happened because Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer wanted to say that every person in America who voted for Donald Trump,

00:15:53.680 every Republican,

00:15:54.480 every conservative,

00:15:55.340 every,

00:15:55.600 everyone who loves Liberty,

00:15:56.720 we're all terrorists.

00:15:58.940 We're all insurrectionists.

00:16:01.920 We're all violently attacking the Capitol.

00:16:05.140 And very quickly,

00:16:07.300 it became clear that's what was going on.

00:16:09.200 And so the red state governor said,

00:16:10.660 all right,

00:16:10.860 bring our guardsmen home.

00:16:11.920 We're not sending them up there to,

00:16:14.120 to,

00:16:14.400 to be part of a set in a studio production.

00:16:18.040 So the,

00:16:18.800 the only guys left were guardsmen from blue states and they were from New York and New Jersey and Rhode Island.

00:16:25.020 And I'd go talk with them.

00:16:26.540 A number of them come in and meet with me in my office.

00:16:28.500 I take pictures with them and I visit with them.

00:16:30.360 And,

00:16:30.980 and it was interesting almost to a person.

00:16:33.720 They recognize this was ludicrous theater,

00:16:37.260 that they were actors in a democratic play that had a political purpose.

00:16:43.820 And,

00:16:44.060 and the machine guns with no bullets really captured at all.

00:16:47.340 The,

00:16:47.780 the cherry on top of the hypocrisy Sunday from Democrats and the media is that Kamala Harris, 0.89

00:16:58.040 our vice president raised money to bail out of jail,

00:17:04.340 violent rioters and terrorists who'd committed acts of violence.

00:17:08.800 So she actively supported the violence.

00:17:13.140 And,

00:17:13.600 and it was very funny.

00:17:14.500 One of the reporters today was in the Capitol,

00:17:16.300 uh,

00:17:17.500 said,

00:17:18.000 said,

00:17:18.300 well,

00:17:18.760 well,

00:17:18.980 okay.

00:17:19.260 Yes,

00:17:19.540 I,

00:17:19.760 I understand that,

00:17:20.760 that,

00:17:20.920 that,

00:17:21.200 you know,

00:17:21.720 there were protests elsewhere.

00:17:23.880 And I laughed and said,

00:17:24.940 protest.

00:17:25.500 Oh,

00:17:25.640 really?

00:17:25.920 Is that what you call it?

00:17:27.180 Protest when they're firebombing police officers,

00:17:30.060 when,

00:17:30.460 when officer David Dorn is shot and murdered,

00:17:33.100 that's a protest.

00:17:34.280 And,

00:17:34.900 and the reporter like almost had to step back and admit,

00:17:38.620 okay,

00:17:38.960 yeah,

00:17:39.100 I guess calling them protests.

00:17:40.720 No,

00:17:40.940 they were violent riots that democratic officials were complicit in,

00:17:47.100 refused to send the police,

00:17:48.680 refused to allow the police to do their jobs and,

00:17:51.520 and,

00:17:51.720 and effectively sponsored.

00:17:54.480 Um,

00:17:55.420 and my view is we ought to be consistent,

00:17:57.160 whether you agree with the ideology or not of a violent criminal,

00:18:01.760 nobody has a right to commit an act of violence on another American.

00:18:07.000 Of course.

00:18:07.380 And,

00:18:07.540 and where does the real threat to our way of life and our system of government

00:18:10.960 come from the horn guy or the other eccentric who tried to take Nancy

00:18:15.000 Pelosi's lectern or the people who wield actual political power in the

00:18:19.080 United States,

00:18:19.620 which is why I'm quite concerned about this Supreme court decision.

00:18:24.100 The justices rejected this petition of the New York healthcare workers who did

00:18:29.500 not want to take the vaccine for any number of reasons why they didn't want to

00:18:33.080 take the vaccine.

00:18:34.240 The court,

00:18:34.840 as I understand it,

00:18:35.840 came down and said,

00:18:36.680 nope,

00:18:37.080 sorry,

00:18:37.460 the mandate stands.

00:18:38.960 Now,

00:18:39.160 Senator,

00:18:39.600 you know,

00:18:40.000 I don't know anything about the law.

00:18:41.880 I know a tiny little bit about the constitution.

00:18:44.500 What is the deal with the court?

00:18:46.260 Justice Gorsuch wrote a,

00:18:47.540 a 14 page dissent,

00:18:49.100 which,

00:18:49.320 which I commend to you.

00:18:50.140 I've,

00:18:50.300 I've read the whole thing.

00:18:51.140 It's worth reading.

00:18:52.340 Uh,

00:18:52.600 it,

00:18:52.780 it is exceptionally well done.

00:18:54.700 It,

00:18:55.140 it,

00:18:55.300 it details what,

00:18:56.780 what happened,

00:18:57.420 which is that,

00:18:58.060 that New York state has a vaccine mandate for healthcare workers.

00:19:01.860 And it actually talks about how under,

00:19:03.980 under governor Andrew Cuomo,

00:19:05.760 it was fine.

00:19:07.280 When Cuomo rolled out the mandate,

00:19:09.100 he said he was going to allow an exception for religious,

00:19:12.700 uh,

00:19:13.420 objections.

00:19:14.440 And so that was Cuomo's rule,

00:19:17.060 which was fine.

00:19:17.840 It protected religious liberty,

00:19:19.320 protected rights of conscience.

00:19:21.000 And then,

00:19:21.880 you know,

00:19:22.580 Cuomo kind of got himself in trouble.

00:19:24.360 And,

00:19:24.700 and,

00:19:24.860 and,

00:19:25.340 uh,

00:19:26.100 you know,

00:19:26.420 he,

00:19:26.720 he's now with his younger brother in,

00:19:28.600 in,

00:19:28.900 in,

00:19:29.160 in the ranks of the unemployed.

00:19:31.600 And,

00:19:32.140 uh,

00:19:33.060 then his successor,

00:19:36.540 Kathy Hochul or Hochul or hot. 0.66

00:19:39.140 I'm not sure how you pronounce something like that.

00:19:41.060 Hochul.

00:19:41.880 Um,

00:19:42.520 anyway,

00:19:42.840 she came in,

00:19:44.460 look,

00:19:44.760 she was Lieutenant governor.

00:19:46.140 Nobody knew anything about her other than she was Cuomo's number two.

00:19:49.240 Suddenly she's governor. 0.50

00:19:50.560 And,

00:19:51.120 and this woman was a zealot. 1.00

00:19:53.480 And so she changed the policy to eliminate the exception for religious liberty.

00:20:01.060 And,

00:20:01.120 you know,

00:20:02.280 justice Gorsuch writes about that.

00:20:04.420 It explains that she explained why.

00:20:06.700 And,

00:20:06.780 and in her press conferences,

00:20:07.900 she said,

00:20:08.620 quote,

00:20:09.980 we left off the religious exception in our regulations intentionally.

00:20:14.660 So it had been there in the original version that they carved out religious exceptions.

00:20:18.740 And she asked why the governor answered that there is,

00:20:24.700 quote,

00:20:24.880 no sanctioned religious exemption from any organized religion.

00:20:30.160 And she goes on to say,

00:20:31.760 quote,

00:20:32.280 everybody from the Pope on down is encouraging people to get vaccinated.

00:20:37.620 Then to a different audience,

00:20:39.240 she says,

00:20:40.180 quote,

00:20:40.600 how can you believe that God would give a vaccine that would cause you harm?

00:20:45.700 That is not truth.

00:20:48.240 Those are just lies that are out there on social media.

00:20:50.960 And then even further,

00:20:52.540 she specified,

00:20:54.720 quote,

00:20:55.520 all of you,

00:20:57.460 yes,

00:20:57.800 I know you're vaccinated.

00:20:59.620 You're the smart ones.

00:21:01.880 But,

00:21:02.500 you know,

00:21:03.260 there's people out there who aren't listening to God and what God wants.

00:21:10.740 You know who they are.

00:21:12.400 So think of the arrogance of an elected official who now claims to speak for God.

00:21:19.320 And if you don't share her view,

00:21:22.680 you're not listening to God and what God wants. 0.94

00:21:25.600 Who the hell are you, 0.99

00:21:27.060 Kathy? 1.00

00:21:27.480 What's your name?

00:21:28.800 You know what?

00:21:29.600 Just because you are in elected power,

00:21:32.300 you don't get to decide questions of faith for the people.

00:21:36.580 And so she carved it out.

00:21:39.000 By the way,

00:21:40.200 there are exceptions for health issues.

00:21:42.180 So if you have a doctor who says,

00:21:43.820 for some reason,

00:21:44.340 the vaccine is a health risk for you,

00:21:46.500 there's an exception for that.

00:21:47.820 There's also an exception for people that were given the placebos in tests of the vaccine.

00:21:54.000 So there are two exceptions.

00:21:56.420 But they decided religious liberty doesn't count.

00:21:59.560 And this was a lawsuit that was brought by about 20 health care workers

00:22:02.300 who had been providing care to COVID peoples.

00:22:07.460 These were the heroes on the front lines that are not only about to get fired,

00:22:12.320 but the New York governor also decided they don't get unemployment benefits.

00:22:18.260 So we're going to fire you and you are categorically ineligible for unemployment because apparently you're not listening to God.

00:22:27.000 It's clearly vindictive,

00:22:28.720 you know,

00:22:29.580 going after the unemployment.

00:22:31.340 And she's presuming not only to speak for God,

00:22:33.640 but to speak for the Pope,

00:22:35.320 who I suppose himself speaks for God.

00:22:37.340 But she's,

00:22:38.060 and she's misrepresenting the position,

00:22:40.020 by the way.

00:22:40.640 It is true that many Catholic bishops,

00:22:42.520 including the Pope,

00:22:43.420 have encouraged people to get the vaccine

00:22:45.660 or said that it's permissible to get the vaccine.

00:22:47.980 But the way that they have said it is permissible is by saying that even though the vaccine involves a remote cooperation with evil,

00:22:55.540 the evil of the aborted fetal cells or the evil of the abortion from which the fetal cells that were used in the development and production of the vaccine came,

00:23:03.640 the church is not compelling anybody to do that.

00:23:07.160 The church can't,

00:23:07.920 the position of the church is that it cannot force you to cooperate with evil no matter how remote.

00:23:13.660 So this glib governor of New York is presuming not only to speak for God,

00:23:18.740 which is outrageous enough,

00:23:20.820 but to speak for other people who have their own religious views and to misrepresent those views.

00:23:26.000 It is so arrogant, 0.95

00:23:28.080 but it is also so ignorant and I suppose new in American jurisprudence. 0.99

00:23:34.240 Well, 0.94

00:23:34.660 and the fact that she says there are no organized religions,

00:23:39.700 big formal organized religion,

00:23:41.280 you know,

00:23:41.520 religious liberty is not, 0.99

00:23:43.880 you don't have to have a big organized religion to sign off on it.

00:23:47.480 The constitution protects your faith and,

00:23:50.420 and,

00:23:50.580 and,

00:23:51.080 you know,

00:23:51.960 it can be challenged on whether it's sincere,

00:23:54.100 but,

00:23:54.280 but if it,

00:23:54.860 there's no dispute with these plaintiffs that their faith is sincere,

00:23:58.440 right?

00:23:58.540 They're acting according to their faith and the constitution protects it.

00:24:01.720 Whether you're in a religion of a billion people or a religion of just a handful,

00:24:06.260 there are protections of religious liberty.

00:24:09.720 And I got to say it was disappointing.

00:24:11.760 So you had three justices,

00:24:13.520 Thomas Alito and Gorsuch,

00:24:15.320 who would have stayed the mandate.

00:24:17.420 In other words,

00:24:17.860 said you can't fire these healthcare workers until the court decides whether to grant certiorari,

00:24:24.120 whether to hear the case.

00:24:25.140 Yeah.

00:24:26.080 But the other supposed conservatives,

00:24:28.700 John Roberts and Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett all voted no.

00:24:33.200 If one of them had voted yes,

00:24:35.840 they could have granted cert.

00:24:36.820 If two of them had voted yes,

00:24:38.020 they could have stayed the order.

00:24:39.940 All three of them voted no.

00:24:42.140 And,

00:24:42.400 you know,

00:24:43.120 I got to say,

00:24:44.360 Justice Gorsuch wrote in the end,

00:24:47.880 a comparison that was really powerful.

00:24:49.680 And he talked about World War II,

00:24:52.520 World War II and in the time leading up to World War II,

00:24:56.260 people were freaked out and they were,

00:24:57.640 they were concerned.

00:24:58.460 And obviously it was a major war and,

00:25:01.560 and local jurisdictions passed laws in public schools requiring students to say the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag.

00:25:10.100 They wanted national unity because we were heading into a war.

00:25:13.340 And one public school in Minersville,

00:25:15.980 Pennsylvania had that mandate.

00:25:18.140 And there was a family,

00:25:19.880 Lillian and William Gobitis,

00:25:21.780 who were Jehovah's Witnesses.

00:25:24.300 And,

00:25:24.800 and their,

00:25:25.380 their child was in the schools and Jehovah's Witnesses believe as a matter of faith that they should not pledge to anything but God.

00:25:32.740 And that includes a pledge of allegiance to the flag.

00:25:34.740 And so they had a genuine and,

00:25:37.340 and,

00:25:37.360 and heartfelt religious objection to,

00:25:42.180 to,

00:25:42.440 to their,

00:25:43.020 their child being forced to pledge allegiance to the flag.

00:25:46.340 They brought a lawsuit,

00:25:47.160 went all the way to the Supreme Court.

00:25:49.380 And in 1940,

00:25:50.700 right at the dawn of,

00:25:51.580 of World War II,

00:25:52.420 the court rejected their claim and said,

00:25:55.820 no,

00:25:56.180 this is,

00:25:57.360 this is an emergency.

00:25:58.200 It's a crisis.

00:25:58.920 You don't have a religious liberty, 0.99

00:26:00.180 right?

00:26:00.560 And so they threw them out.

00:26:02.260 Now,

00:26:02.860 three years later,

00:26:04.080 1943,

00:26:05.420 in another decision called Barnett,

00:26:08.400 Supreme Court reversed itself.

00:26:09.880 It reversed itself and said,

00:26:11.640 we were wrong.

00:26:12.560 We were wrong.

00:26:13.960 And,

00:26:14.520 and this religious liberty,

00:26:15.940 right?

00:26:16.340 It was a different Jehovah's Witness who was bringing a challenge to a similar mandate. 0.71

00:26:19.940 And they reversed itself.

00:26:21.480 And,

00:26:22.020 and here's what Justice Gorsuch wrote that I think was really powerful.

00:26:24.860 He said,

00:26:27.140 quote,

00:26:27.860 today,

00:26:28.780 our nation faces not a world war,

00:26:32.060 but a pandemic.

00:26:34.080 Like wars though,

00:26:36.740 pandemics often produce demanding new social rules aimed at promoting collective interests. 0.99

00:26:43.400 And with those rules can come fear and anger at individuals unable to conform for religious reasons.

00:26:51.020 If cases like gobitus bear any good,

00:26:55.880 it is as their cautionary tale.

00:26:59.040 They remind us that in the end,

00:27:01.680 it is always the failure to defend the constitution's promises that leads to this court's greatest regrets.

00:27:10.020 And that is a powerful,

00:27:13.060 powerful analogy that,

00:27:14.580 that,

00:27:14.700 that I think it's disappointing that we didn't see all nine justices say,

00:27:20.320 we're going to defend the religious liberty rights of these doctors and nurses who were the heroes of this pandemic.

00:27:27.760 And now they're going to be fired and denied unemployment for daring to stand for their faith.

00:27:33.420 Right.

00:27:33.600 It does raise questions about where are the real threats to liberty and our way of life and our rights really come from.

00:27:39.780 And I think we should hear from some of our wonderful viewers and listeners from a verdict.

00:27:45.100 So we should bring on not Liz,

00:27:47.000 the lesser,

00:27:47.440 but Liz,

00:27:47.820 the greater with the mailbag.

00:27:50.140 Liz.

00:27:50.420 Thank you,

00:27:50.840 Michael.

00:27:51.100 We have a lot of good questions tonight.

00:27:53.080 As always,

00:27:53.800 if you want to submit a question to ask to Senator Cruz,

00:27:56.060 to ask to Michael Knowles,

00:27:56.860 or to ask to me,

00:27:57.820 you can do so at verdict with tedcruz.com slash plus.

00:28:00.840 If you are a subscriber on verdict plus,

00:28:02.740 well,

00:28:02.900 you get access to ask questions that will be answered right here live on episodes of verdict.

00:28:07.900 So Senator,

00:28:08.620 I want to start with,

00:28:09.660 well,

00:28:10.940 an obvious fact here.

00:28:11.840 This is a reality.

00:28:12.460 You were trending on Twitter this week because of Senator Bob Dole's funeral was this week.

00:28:18.740 You attended,

00:28:19.360 of course.

00:28:19.860 He was a great man,

00:28:20.560 a great conservative.

00:28:22.220 That is not why you were trending though.

00:28:23.840 You were trending because left wing blue check marks on Twitter were angry because you were not wearing a mask at this funeral.

00:28:31.600 And they essentially,

00:28:32.980 I mean,

00:28:33.160 these people were hysterical.

00:28:34.540 They were essentially accusing you of,

00:28:36.320 of murder,

00:28:37.220 of homicide because you didn't wear a mask to protect others.

00:28:40.180 They said against COVID-19.

00:28:41.640 How do you,

00:28:42.020 how do you respond to this?

00:28:43.880 Well,

00:28:44.440 you know,

00:28:45.280 it was interesting how the whole thing spun out of control on,

00:28:49.620 on Twitter and online.

00:28:51.900 I went to Bob Dole's funeral.

00:28:54.000 I didn't know Bob personally.

00:28:55.560 We didn't serve together.

00:28:56.860 He was obviously a national figure.

00:28:58.440 I knew of him,

00:28:59.080 but we didn't,

00:28:59.640 we didn't know each other personally,

00:29:00.940 but I respected his service.

00:29:02.980 And in particular,

00:29:03.800 his,

00:29:04.260 his heroic service in world war two where he,

00:29:06.780 where he's,

00:29:07.620 you know,

00:29:08.200 he really embodied the greatest generation,

00:29:10.760 the heroism.

00:29:11.560 He lived his whole life with,

00:29:12.800 with serious injuries that,

00:29:14.560 that,

00:29:14.780 that,

00:29:15.000 that he suffered in world war two.

00:29:17.240 And we're at a time when,

00:29:19.160 when the very last of the greatest generation are passing from us,

00:29:22.340 that there are only a handful that are left.

00:29:23.940 And so I wanted to go to honor his,

00:29:26.700 his life and service and legacy.

00:29:28.180 And I went and there were a whole bunch of senators that went,

00:29:30.800 but I did not wear a mask.

00:29:33.200 I wasn't the only Senator not wearing a mask.

00:29:35.200 Roger Marshall,

00:29:36.020 who's Senator from Kansas is a medical doctor.

00:29:38.340 He didn't wear a mask.

00:29:40.060 Alphonse D'Amato from,

00:29:41.520 from New York state,

00:29:42.680 former Senator,

00:29:43.340 he didn't wear a mask,

00:29:44.520 but most of the senators wore masks.

00:29:46.580 Most of the,

00:29:47.620 all the Democrats wore masks.

00:29:49.140 Most of the Republicans wore masks.

00:29:51.720 And Twitter went nuts.

00:29:54.380 And,

00:29:54.940 and the,

00:29:55.920 the corporate media then through gasoline on the fire,

00:29:59.260 it,

00:29:59.820 it culminated in,

00:30:01.660 in this past Sunday on,

00:30:04.040 on Jake Tapper's show on CNN,

00:30:06.800 Jake Tapper was interviewing Amy Klobuchar,

00:30:09.380 Democrat from Minnesota.

00:30:11.180 And Amy and I were sitting next to each other.

00:30:13.880 And,

00:30:14.600 and she was on Tapper's show and Tapper,

00:30:17.240 and I'm going to paraphrase,

00:30:18.120 but he basically said,

00:30:19.160 so you were at Bob Dole's funeral.

00:30:20.460 And Ted Cruz was sitting next to you.

00:30:23.560 And,

00:30:23.760 and,

00:30:23.940 and you're a breast cancer survivor.

00:30:26.380 And,

00:30:26.900 and didn't Ted endanger your life,

00:30:30.480 put your life in danger because he was next to you without a mask.

00:30:36.540 Now,

00:30:38.800 Amy,

00:30:39.240 to her credit,

00:30:39.940 and I will give her credit.

00:30:41.460 She didn't take the bait.

00:30:42.620 She actually took the high road.

00:30:44.140 She didn't take a shot at me. 0.97

00:30:46.120 She didn't go as,

00:30:47.460 as Jake was begging her to do and say,

00:30:49.840 you know,

00:30:50.280 yes,

00:30:50.640 Ted endangered my life.

00:30:51.840 But I will say a couple of observations that were particularly ironic.

00:31:00.740 Number one,

00:31:01.480 Jake Tapper asked this question,

00:31:03.980 sitting just a couple of feet from Amy Klobuchar,

00:31:06.980 not wearing a mask.

00:31:08.780 He didn't have a mask on.

00:31:10.440 She didn't have a mask on.

00:31:11.600 They're facing each other.

00:31:12.840 Now,

00:31:12.940 his premise is to be in the room,

00:31:15.520 to be next to Amy Klobuchar without a mask.

00:31:17.540 You are endangering her life.

00:31:20.940 And they're both staring at each other with no mask while making that point. 0.97

00:31:24.320 It is the absolute hypocrisy.

00:31:26.940 We were talking about it on January 6th.

00:31:28.740 We're talking about it on CNN.

00:31:30.720 It is political theater and kabuki theater.

00:31:33.640 Let me tell you a second component,

00:31:35.660 which is how did I get to the funeral?

00:31:39.460 Well,

00:31:39.680 I got to the funeral the way most of the other senators got to the funeral,

00:31:42.940 which is we all loaded up into a bus that met in the Capitol.

00:31:45.980 And we rode in the bus from the Capitol,

00:31:47.800 the funeral.

00:31:49.040 Now on the bus,

00:31:50.140 you have a whole bunch of current senators,

00:31:51.980 former senators on the bus.

00:31:53.980 Almost every single Senator took their mask off.

00:31:56.920 Right.

00:31:57.100 So on the bus,

00:31:57.780 we're sitting next to each other.

00:31:58.960 We're all together,

00:32:00.300 Democrats and Republicans,

00:32:02.320 almost to a person.

00:32:03.540 It was,

00:32:03.780 I'd say 80 to 90% of the senators took their masks off on the bus,

00:32:07.900 including most of the Democrats.

00:32:09.700 We're next to each other chatting.

00:32:11.200 And then we step off the bus and suddenly the masks go on.

00:32:15.260 And it is because there are political,

00:32:18.080 there are TV cameras there.

00:32:19.540 And apparently a TV camera,

00:32:23.020 something in the lens makes the virus more dangerous that when you're on a bus

00:32:27.480 and there are no cameras,

00:32:29.060 everything's hunky dory.

00:32:30.320 But when you're,

00:32:30.980 when you're performing for theater,

00:32:33.820 that's what was going on there.

00:32:36.760 And,

00:32:36.900 and so look,

00:32:38.380 I,

00:32:38.540 I think it real,

00:32:39.920 it revealed the utter, 0.99

00:32:43.340 utter hypocrisy. 0.96

00:32:44.480 And by the way, 0.98

00:32:45.560 that hypocrisy continues. 0.90

00:32:47.780 If you look at the Senate,

00:32:49.160 when democratic senators get together in the Capitol today,

00:32:53.180 most of them take their masks off.

00:32:55.140 It's only when the cameras are there,

00:32:57.020 they're putting it on.

00:32:57.660 And so it,

00:32:58.100 it,

00:32:58.340 it,

00:32:58.580 it showed the masks are an aspect of theater,

00:33:03.640 just like the razor wire and the national guard with machine guns and no

00:33:07.860 bullets were an element of political theater.

00:33:10.380 And,

00:33:10.760 and ridiculously CNN and other folks in the corporate media are enthusiastic

00:33:16.720 participants in the charade.

00:33:18.700 And Michael,

00:33:19.100 very similar question to you.

00:33:20.860 Have you ever worn your mask over your nose?

00:33:24.620 Almost never.

00:33:26.020 I actually,

00:33:26.600 I was on an airline a few weeks ago.

00:33:29.760 I'm not going to say which airline.

00:33:30.940 I don't want to get them in trouble,

00:33:32.560 but the stewardess came over the speaker, 1.00

00:33:34.840 admitted that they all hate the stupid masks and they don't want to enforce it. 1.00

00:33:38.600 One of the stewardesses had a mesh mask on. 1.00

00:33:41.700 It was fully mesh.

00:33:43.660 My mind was on my chin for the entire flight.

00:33:47.380 But,

00:33:47.640 but of course for,

00:33:48.660 you know,

00:33:49.080 to Senator Cruz's point,

00:33:50.860 there is no virtue signaling theatrical benefit to us putting on the mask for

00:33:57.500 the cameras or out in public.

00:33:58.720 If we are conservatives or Republicans or sensible,

00:34:02.560 ordinary people,

00:34:03.160 but for Democrats,

00:34:05.060 ardent Democrats and Democrat elected officials,

00:34:07.660 they,

00:34:08.100 they really do because it has taken on this symbolism.

00:34:10.980 It's almost a religious symbolism,

00:34:12.480 certainly a political symbolism.

00:34:14.580 And so,

00:34:15.420 so you get to that case.

00:34:16.420 And one point,

00:34:17.080 Senator,

00:34:17.260 I'm actually envious that you got to go to Bob Dole's funeral.

00:34:20.200 I loved Bob Dole.

00:34:22.120 I was a,

00:34:22.620 just a child.

00:34:23.380 I really liked the guy.

00:34:24.780 I was a Republican,

00:34:25.840 basically straight out of the womb.

00:34:27.080 And there was a great line in his farewell letter in which he said,

00:34:31.340 he looked forward to seeing if heaven really looked a lot like Kansas and if he would still be able to vote in Chicago.

00:34:36.480 So even among the political theater,

00:34:38.500 Dole was still cracking jokes,

00:34:40.000 even at the very end.

00:34:41.260 Well,

00:34:41.780 and in fact,

00:34:42.400 his line was if he,

00:34:43.800 if he would still be able to vote in Chicago,

00:34:46.140 like so many who have gone before me have done,

00:34:49.740 which,

00:34:51.060 and it was funny,

00:34:51.640 the Democrats were all nervous.

00:34:53.100 Oh,

00:34:53.260 dead people voting in Chicago.

00:34:54.720 We're not allowed to laugh at that.

00:34:56.640 The Republicans,

00:34:57.420 we were howling laughing.

00:34:59.560 And I got to say,

00:35:00.700 all right,

00:35:00.960 Norm did a fabulous Bob Dole.

00:35:02.820 And after the 96 election,

00:35:06.020 Dole went on SNL with Norm playing him.

00:35:10.140 And,

00:35:10.620 and,

00:35:10.920 you know,

00:35:11.080 he blasts him for,

00:35:12.440 you know,

00:35:13.220 and why are you speaking in the third person?

00:35:15.900 Bob Dole wouldn't do that.

00:35:17.000 Bob Dole would not be speaking in the third person.

00:35:19.540 So I have one Bob Dole anecdote,

00:35:22.420 which is a good friend of mine,

00:35:25.560 was an intern in Dole's office in 91,

00:35:30.300 in the first Persian Gulf War.

00:35:33.540 And I guess the Iraq ambassador,

00:35:38.120 foreign minister,

00:35:38.840 some senior Iraqi official came by his office to meet with him.

00:35:43.200 And Dole apparently walked out into the hallway of the Senate office building.

00:35:47.000 And,

00:35:47.920 and lots of people walking up and down the hallway.

00:35:50.000 And he says,

00:35:50.580 there,

00:35:51.020 there are any military men here.

00:35:52.920 And,

00:35:53.400 and,

00:35:53.560 and two young men step forward and they go,

00:35:55.460 yes,

00:35:55.680 sir.

00:35:55.880 We're,

00:35:56.100 we're,

00:35:56.260 we're both United States Marines.

00:35:58.560 And Dole goes,

00:35:59.400 good.

00:36:00.800 There's an Iraqi in my office. 1.00

00:36:02.780 Go kick his ass. 1.00

00:36:07.080 And that apparently is a true story. 1.00

00:36:09.760 That is,

00:36:10.540 they don't make them like that anymore.

00:36:12.080 All right,

00:36:12.500 Senator,

00:36:12.860 this is,

00:36:13.160 this is a little bit more serious of a question.

00:36:14.960 This is from Daniel Reed over at verdict plus.

00:36:16.680 He says,

00:36:17.560 Senator,

00:36:18.220 other than registering more voters and electing more conservatives in 13 months,

00:36:21.820 what steps can you in Congress or us in the community take to prevent wild left policies like build back broke or corrupt politicians act from being enacted?

00:36:31.440 Well,

00:36:31.800 we've got to keep shining a light on how bad they are.

00:36:35.260 We've got to make it clear to the American people.

00:36:38.040 We've got to mobilize and educate.

00:36:40.900 To be honest,

00:36:41.340 this podcast tries to do that.

00:36:42.920 I mean,

00:36:43.040 a big purpose of this pod is to give the,

00:36:47.040 the verdict community,

00:36:48.140 the information,

00:36:49.460 the facts,

00:36:50.180 the background so that when you're talking with your friends,

00:36:52.540 when you're talking with your families and your,

00:36:54.020 your coworkers,

00:36:54.780 when you're posting on social media,

00:36:57.460 you can spread the word about how disastrous the corrupt politicians act is,

00:37:03.840 how disastrous the build back broke bill is.

00:37:06.940 To defeat them.

00:37:10.040 We've got to get Democrats on the fence like a Joe Manchin or a Kyrsten Sinema to continue to vote no on build back broke.

00:37:21.480 They are right now.

00:37:22.900 That could change any day now.

00:37:24.840 And I think the more we highlight the substance,

00:37:28.460 the,

00:37:28.600 the,

00:37:28.900 the policy,

00:37:29.660 the more unpopular it gets,

00:37:32.600 the less likely it is that you'll get all Democrats uniting like lemmings to jump off a cliff.

00:37:40.940 But,

00:37:41.300 but,

00:37:41.620 but we'll see.

00:37:44.400 Right now,

00:37:45.340 the Democrats have all the levers of power,

00:37:47.420 but,

00:37:47.860 but the most important lever of power is the American people.

00:37:50.480 And the more we can inform and educate and mobilize the American people,

00:37:55.680 the more we have a,

00:37:56.900 a chance at stopping the bad things.

00:38:00.160 And also the more likely we are to retake the house and,

00:38:05.400 and hopefully the Senate as well in 22.

00:38:07.320 And Michael,

00:38:07.820 let me ask you about retaking the house and Senate.

00:38:09.760 Give us a prediction here.

00:38:11.060 I mean,

00:38:11.620 most of the time,

00:38:12.680 the first midterm election of a first term of a sitting president,

00:38:17.120 they,

00:38:17.480 the,

00:38:17.620 that president's party loses both,

00:38:20.080 uh,

00:38:20.420 the house and Senate by a,

00:38:21.360 by a significant amount.

00:38:22.260 What,

00:38:22.460 what do you think it's going to look like in 2022?

00:38:24.720 Well,

00:38:24.840 I like to think that part of the reason I've been able to keep my podcasts and my career in political commentary is I don't make very many predictions.

00:38:32.260 I did make one prediction once I had a bet with Ben Shapiro over who would win in 2016 and I won 400 bucks off the guy.

00:38:39.320 So I'm,

00:38:39.980 I'm batting a thousand basically on my predictions.

00:38:42.100 And I,

00:38:42.660 I look,

00:38:43.220 if you're looking at the polls,

00:38:44.440 then yes,

00:38:45.380 uh,

00:38:45.660 the Republicans are looking really great in 2022.

00:38:48.820 Certainly we'll see what happens in 2024.

00:38:50.860 The one objection I have heard is that if the Supreme court overrules Roe versus Wade,

00:38:55.900 that that will galvanize the Democrats and they will suddenly be motivated to go out and get to the polls.

00:39:01.680 And that's why we all need to,

00:39:03.480 you know,

00:39:04.620 not,

00:39:04.920 not save all the babies and save the, 0.61

00:39:06.580 uh,

00:39:07.040 serious reading of the constitution.

00:39:08.240 But other polls do not back that up.

00:39:11.340 And,

00:39:11.580 and so this should give a lot of hope to conservatives here.

00:39:15.060 Yes,

00:39:15.680 many Democrats care about abortion,

00:39:17.680 but according to polls,

00:39:19.840 a relatively small number of voters of the Democrat or Republican party are actually motivated to show up to the polls,

00:39:28.160 given a candidate stance on abortion.

00:39:31.160 I don't think that's going to be a big motivator.

00:39:32.980 And so then,

00:39:33.380 then you're looking at all of the other issues and on all of the other issues,

00:39:36.260 the Republicans are winning.

00:39:37.500 So I think it is a safe bet to say that right now,

00:39:39.440 the Republicans are looking at a very,

00:39:41.460 very good midterm election.

00:39:43.060 I certainly hope so.

00:39:44.460 This,

00:39:44.700 this next question from Nancy,

00:39:46.940 um,

00:39:47.460 I'm excited to hear both of your answers on this.

00:39:49.700 Senator,

00:39:50.000 I want to go to you first.

00:39:51.540 Nancy says,

00:39:52.860 Julian Assange,

00:39:54.340 hero,

00:39:55.380 villain,

00:39:56.080 or pawn?

00:39:57.980 Um,

00:39:58.680 I don't like people that reveal information that endangers national security.

00:40:06.600 Um,

00:40:07.160 and,

00:40:09.440 I am grateful for highlighting abuses of government power,

00:40:16.700 uh,

00:40:18.880 but doing so in ways that put,

00:40:22.300 uh,

00:40:24.080 put our country's security at risk are not great.

00:40:27.080 And so I would rather have the abuses of power highlighted,

00:40:34.520 uh,

00:40:35.960 in ways that don't endanger covert operatives,

00:40:40.460 don't endanger people who are actively fighting to protect our security.

00:40:45.540 Um,

00:40:46.140 so somewhere in between is my answer for that.

00:40:49.560 All right.

00:40:49.880 And Michael,

00:40:50.540 what is your analysis?

00:40:51.580 This,

00:40:51.840 by the way,

00:40:52.060 is coming on the heels of Julian Assange is very likely to be extradited back to the U.S.

00:40:56.120 So that's why he's in,

00:40:57.820 he's in the news again.

00:40:58.820 Well,

00:40:59.020 the,

00:40:59.140 the reason this is a tricky question as Senator Cruz has alluded to is because of the corruption

00:41:04.960 within the American intelligence community.

00:41:06.700 If,

00:41:07.380 if the American intelligence community at the highest levels of leadership were not incredibly corrupt,

00:41:12.660 then this would be an easy answer.

00:41:14.160 Who do you side with?

00:41:14.960 The,

00:41:15.140 the United States government or the guy who's,

00:41:17.820 who's publishing secrets of the American government.

00:41:20.760 But because of the intense corruption of the intelligence community and more broadly,

00:41:25.640 what we call the deep state,

00:41:26.680 we've seen this play out time and time again.

00:41:28.660 They tried to subvert the 2016 presidential election.

00:41:31.580 They spied on,

00:41:32.600 on Donald Trump as a candidate.

00:41:34.000 And then they tried to undermine his whole presidency because of that.

00:41:37.200 It's very difficult to defend the IC,

00:41:39.480 certainly the,

00:41:39.980 the leadership of the intelligence community.

00:41:42.160 And what does this mean for Julian Assange?

00:41:44.040 I don't know.

00:41:44.500 I don't know anything about Julian Assange,

00:41:45.980 but in the political battle that we're talking here between this guy,

00:41:49.340 Mr. Assange and the political leaders of the IC,

00:41:52.260 it strikes me that it's similar to the Iran Iraq war.

00:41:55.500 I hope they both lose.

00:41:57.040 Well,

00:41:57.160 and,

00:41:57.300 and if,

00:41:57.980 if he is in fact extradited to the United States and there's a trial,

00:42:01.360 we may get greater assessment about the extent to which,

00:42:05.080 uh,

00:42:06.060 the secrets he revealed genuinely endangered Americans.

00:42:11.040 If they did,

00:42:11.980 that's a real problem.

00:42:13.580 Uh,

00:42:13.900 we right now have just sort of broad assertions about that.

00:42:18.400 And,

00:42:18.680 and the facts and substance matter.

00:42:21.180 Yeah,

00:42:21.640 it's a great point.

00:42:22.240 So basically to summarize the,

00:42:23.660 the answer,

00:42:24.220 the very non vague answer is all of the above hero,

00:42:26.860 villain,

00:42:27.240 and pawn at this moment until we get more information.

00:42:30.320 If you want to submit a question to ask Senator Cruz,

00:42:32.300 Michael noise,

00:42:32.800 or me,

00:42:33.340 please join us over on verdict plus it's verdict with Ted Cruz.com slash plus.

00:42:38.540 Um,

00:42:39.540 if you want your questions answered live on air,

00:42:41.280 that's the best place to get inside access,

00:42:43.120 uh,

00:42:43.560 to the Senator and his answers to all of your concerns.

00:42:45.760 Michael on that note,

00:42:46.880 I will hand it back to you.

00:42:48.240 Now we're very excited to go back on the road with young America's foundation for verdict live.

00:42:52.880 If you did not apply already for,

00:42:56.200 for your school to host one of the shows too bad,

00:42:58.920 it's too late.

00:42:59.940 We've already got all the applications in,

00:43:01.940 but on the next episode of verdict,

00:43:03.940 we will be announcing a way that you can make it out.

00:43:07.980 You will be flown out to be there live,

00:43:11.040 no matter which school we're going to.

00:43:13.520 We're not going to give you the details yet.

00:43:14.940 So subscribe.

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00:43:17.420 Subscribe,

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00:43:23.240 We'll see you next time.

00:43:23.920 So I tried to get the great and powerful Jay Hay to draw a cactus on the Vesta board 0.88

00:43:37.660 for this little bit that we're doing,

00:43:40.740 but he could not produce.

00:43:42.280 So let me just tell you,

00:43:43.180 we have a 20% off sale on the verdict merch store right now.

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00:43:50.040 I would put one on for you to model it,

00:43:51.980 but I'm a little vain of my hair today.

00:43:53.280 I think I'm having a pretty good hair day,

00:43:54.380 so I didn't want to mess it up,

00:43:55.480 but go over to verdictwithtedcruise.com slash shop.

00:43:58.700 And if you use the promo code Santa,

00:44:00.700 then you will get 20% off the entire shop between now and Christmas,

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00:44:13.100 Between now and Christmas,

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00:44:15.740 If you use the promo code Santa,

00:44:18.060 then I don't know.

00:44:19.260 In the meantime,

00:44:19.720 maybe the great and powerful Jay Hay will figure out how to put a t-shirt

00:44:22.620 or a cactus on the Vesta board.

00:44:24.420 But while he's figuring that out,

00:44:26.060 I invite you,

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00:44:41.300 That's actually pretty good.

00:44:42.300 This episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz is being brought to you by Jobs,

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Verdict with Ted Cruz - December 18, 2021

Killers and Insurrectionists

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