Verdict with Ted Cruz - Legendary Coach Bruce Pearl One-on-One： Hoops, NIL & Anti-Semitism in America

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.700 Guaranteed human.

00:00:05.340 Welcome, it is Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you,

00:00:08.520 and we've got a fun show for you coming from Washington, D.C.

00:00:11.540 We're all in the same place, Senator, and we have a friend of the show,

00:00:14.980 a friend of yours, a guest to talk about two different things.

00:00:17.680 My favorite sports, your favorite politics, and we can talk about Israel.

00:00:21.920 All of that, that's like bonus, three things.

00:00:23.840 Look, this is going to be a fun podcast.

00:00:25.740 We are joined today by the great legendary basketball coach, Bruce Pearl,

00:00:30.800 the former coach of Auburn.

00:00:33.640 He was a national champion, won in Division II, the national championship with Auburn.

00:00:39.060 He went not once but twice to the Final Four, including a year ago a heartbreaker

00:00:44.620 where Florida barely eked out a victory.

00:00:49.280 I'm sorry to bring that up.

00:00:50.300 I know that's, you know, to quote my favorite movie, The Princess Bride,

00:00:55.440 why don't you give me a nice paper cut and put lemon juice in it while you're at it?

00:00:59.360 But then, and then Florida went on to win a national championship, beating Houston,

00:01:03.860 which was painful for us as well.

00:01:05.980 He recently retired and is now ambassador for Auburn, is now doing sports broadcasting.

00:01:12.940 He is also someone who cares passionately about Israel, passionately about America,

00:01:18.900 passionately about sports, passionately about life.

00:01:21.340 We're going to talk about all of them.

00:01:23.160 Bruce, welcome.

00:01:23.660 God, Senator Cruz, that's a lot to love up to right there.

00:01:27.020 That is a tremendous introduction.

00:01:29.480 It's great to be with you guys.

00:01:31.340 Appreciate what you're doing.

00:01:32.420 Grateful.

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00:02:50.420 I want to just start with retirement because it doesn't sound like you're retiring at all.

00:02:54.220 No.

00:02:54.460 And this is what your retirement is going to look like.

00:02:56.240 I just want you to know this.

00:02:57.080 There's no way you're ever going to retire, Senator.

00:02:58.840 I'm probably going to be the same way as well.

00:03:00.280 I believe retirement is immoral.

00:03:02.260 And by the way, ask my father, who's 86, about to turn 87.

00:03:06.120 And he will argue retirement is not a biblical concept.

00:03:08.960 My dad's a pastor.

00:03:09.760 And he will lay out there's no concept of retirement anywhere in the Old or New Testament.

00:03:14.180 I like it.

00:03:14.640 We are here on this planet to make a difference.

00:03:19.080 And retirement is not something he will never retire.

00:03:22.680 I will never retire.

00:03:23.720 And Bruce is not retiring.

00:03:25.320 He's just moving to a different arena.

00:03:27.940 I'm not coaching.

00:03:29.060 I'm not coaching basketball.

00:03:30.680 My management style is I put 20 pounds of potatoes in a 10-pound bag every single day.

00:03:36.100 Every day.

00:03:36.780 My tailor says I do the same thing.

00:03:40.040 Me too.

00:03:41.060 That's part of my New Year's resolution.

00:03:42.860 His too.

00:03:43.320 Yeah, I want to try to lose half a hundred.

00:03:45.460 So actually, we have a New Year's resolution.

00:03:47.700 We had to show this at my first resolution.

00:03:49.960 How are you doing?

00:03:50.540 Are you on it?

00:03:51.160 Are you working it?

00:03:51.640 I am on it.

00:03:52.360 Good.

00:03:52.880 It's to drop 30 pounds this year.

00:03:55.100 And I used to be skinny as a rail.

00:03:57.100 I was $1.35 coming out of college.

00:03:59.020 I was $2.52 when I started.

00:04:01.160 So I want to get down to about $2.22.

00:04:03.040 That's my number.

00:04:03.700 So I'm $2.36.

00:04:04.960 My objective is to be at $2.06 January of next year.

00:04:07.900 All right.

00:04:09.180 Good.

00:04:09.520 We can do it.

00:04:10.080 And you've already dropped how much?

00:04:11.500 So I started.

00:04:12.280 It's embarrassing.

00:04:13.480 It's embarrassing.

00:04:14.180 I started.

00:04:14.840 You're a big dude.

00:04:15.340 I'm a big dude.

00:04:16.200 So I've always been a big dude.

00:04:17.880 Everybody's like, you played football.

00:04:18.700 No, I play tennis.

00:04:19.700 I went to the doctor August 20th.

00:04:21.600 So if you can imagine George Foreman with a racket.

00:04:23.500 Yes.

00:04:24.280 I went to the doctor.

00:04:25.020 Sorry, that was cool.

00:04:25.280 No, it's not fair.

00:04:26.700 August of two and a half years ago.

00:04:28.680 And I went and he scared the living snot out of me.

00:04:30.420 And I was 298.

00:04:32.060 And now I'm two, I think at 209.

00:04:34.500 Wow.

00:04:35.100 So I've lost about 90.

00:04:36.240 Good.

00:04:36.840 Yeah.

00:04:37.140 And I feel better.

00:04:37.820 I sleep better.

00:04:38.740 Three kids.

00:04:39.460 That's what, yeah, Mike, I don't want to have a heart attack or a stroke.

00:04:41.820 All right.

00:04:42.240 So let's start.

00:04:43.140 We're going to talk sports.

00:04:43.960 We're also going to talk NIL and college sports.

00:04:45.720 But let's just start a little bit of history.

00:04:48.440 So I was reading your bio and I discovered a fact I didn't know.

00:04:53.560 Which is, I believe, you are the only Division I basketball coach who didn't play basketball.

00:05:00.820 And even like JV basketball.

00:05:02.980 Yeah.

00:05:03.600 Like, how the heck did that happen?

00:05:06.200 That's pretty wild, actually.

00:05:07.500 It is wild.

00:05:08.240 All right.

00:05:08.500 So I'm 15 years old and I'm the best athlete in town.

00:05:12.580 I'm the first kid picked for everything.

00:05:14.600 I bat fourth.

00:05:15.360 I'm pitching.

00:05:16.020 I'm playing quarterback.

00:05:17.220 I was a terrific athlete.

00:05:18.160 Doing it all. 0.98

00:05:19.240 And I was an a**hole. 0.98

00:05:21.060 Can I say that? 0.98

00:05:22.040 Sure.

00:05:22.220 I just wasn't a great kid.

00:05:24.140 I swear.

00:05:25.040 All right.

00:05:25.220 One of our very first podcasts we ever did down in a basement.

00:05:28.720 This is years ago during the first Trump impeachment trial.

00:05:30.860 The very first guest on this podcast was Lindsey Graham.

00:05:34.800 Oh, gosh.

00:05:35.640 And Lindsey, who's a dear friend, Lindsey goes, what in the hell is a podcast? 1.00

00:05:42.020 And he also, at one point, he said, that's bullshit. 1.00

00:05:46.880 He says, can I say bullshit? 1.00

00:05:48.240 Can I say that? 1.00

00:05:48.960 Yeah.

00:05:49.060 And it's like, well, you just did.

00:05:50.200 You just said.

00:05:50.680 Heavy Lindsey Graham and John Kennedy and Bruce Pearl.

00:05:54.400 How about that?

00:05:55.060 It's a trifecta.

00:05:56.000 It's a trifecta.

00:05:56.880 So I just, I was defined by my ability to dominate you in everything.

00:06:02.800 Yeah.

00:06:03.120 And I had a career-ending knee injury.

00:06:06.840 And as a high school.

00:06:07.580 Football, did you get tackled or what happened?

00:06:08.860 At what age?

00:06:09.920 I was a freshman.

00:06:11.080 Wow.

00:06:11.520 And I was blocking.

00:06:13.760 It was a blindside hit, whatever.

00:06:15.400 And I didn't have a very successful-

00:06:16.840 Just hit your knee?

00:06:17.500 Got my knee, helmet on my knee.

00:06:19.780 And I didn't have a great recovery, whatever it was.

00:06:22.060 And I honestly believed that it was God's plan to say, no, this is not the person that

00:06:27.820 I had you to be.

00:06:29.900 Yeah.

00:06:30.080 And so, but there was a competitor in me.

00:06:33.960 So what did I do?

00:06:35.000 I went out for the school play.

00:06:36.920 I became the class president.

00:06:38.620 And I learned that the band kids were the coolest kids on campus.

00:06:41.980 The same kids that I maybe used to make fun of.

00:06:43.960 Yeah.

00:06:44.180 Because they weren't as fast as I was.

00:06:45.960 I'm not sure I'd say the coolest kids on campus.

00:06:48.040 They were cool.

00:06:48.240 Band guys were fun.

00:06:49.160 All right.

00:06:50.080 All right.

00:06:50.320 Now, you went out for the play.

00:06:51.620 Yeah.

00:06:51.780 And I was president of the drama club in-

00:06:54.360 I'm sorry.

00:06:54.980 How did I not use this against you for the last X number of years?

00:06:57.960 I've known.

00:06:58.440 Can you say that again on the show?

00:06:59.800 You were the president of what?

00:07:01.160 The drama club.

00:07:02.000 Okay.

00:07:02.340 The drama.

00:07:02.720 I'm glad I have a witness for this.

00:07:04.180 This is going to be my favorite podcast we've ever done.

00:07:06.440 And look, Ben played Division I sports at Ole Miss.

00:07:10.860 Now, to be fair, it was tennis.

00:07:12.480 Okay.

00:07:13.040 You can say it's the most successful we've ever been at Ole Miss.

00:07:16.120 I'm just saying.

00:07:19.160 But, okay, so you went out for the play.

00:07:22.120 Are you a singer?

00:07:22.920 Are you an actor?

00:07:23.460 I could sing.

00:07:24.180 I could.

00:07:24.700 Before I got into coaching, I lost my voice.

00:07:26.300 All right.

00:07:26.540 What role?

00:07:27.260 What was your biggest role?

00:07:28.080 We did something in Oklahoma.

00:07:30.120 Nice.

00:07:30.680 We actually did something in Oklahoma.

00:07:31.580 So we sang there.

00:07:32.700 And then we did drama competition.

00:07:34.620 Yeah.

00:07:34.720 We did.

00:07:35.120 We went and did that.

00:07:35.900 But it just introduced me-

00:07:38.000 To a different world.

00:07:38.680 A different world.

00:07:39.560 A different group of kids.

00:07:40.640 By the way, the curse of my high school acting career is I cannot carry a tune to save my life.

00:07:46.640 I wish.

00:07:47.520 Yeah.

00:07:47.740 I have envy over those who are musical.

00:07:51.880 And a nightmare story just to do a digression.

00:07:54.000 So senior year, we're doing Oliver.

00:07:58.140 Please, sir.

00:07:59.320 I want more.

00:08:00.240 Right?

00:08:00.620 Isn't that it?

00:08:00.980 That's it.

00:08:01.700 Yeah.

00:08:02.660 All I'm thinking right now is did I read the cliff notes of this?

00:08:05.740 But keep going.

00:08:06.180 Okay.

00:08:06.740 So the head of the-

00:08:08.800 I'm at Second Baptist High School in Houston.

00:08:10.740 The head of the music program there said, okay, we really want you to play Fagan, which

00:08:14.920 is the lead.

00:08:15.460 It's a great role.

00:08:16.800 You know, he's running all the kids.

00:08:17.660 It was made for you.

00:08:18.620 Oh, it's fabulous.

00:08:19.640 And he said, we want you to play Fagan if you can sing it.

00:08:24.460 So I actually hired a voice coach for the entire summer to practice.

00:08:28.640 And I had worked on it.

00:08:29.360 The good thing is Fagan's songs are more spoken than songs.

00:08:34.460 So you can kind of talk them through.

00:08:36.520 So I'd worked on a Fagan song and I could do it. 1.00

00:08:39.540 And the tryouts, I thought I did pretty well.

00:08:42.300 And afterwards, he said, Ted, stick around.

00:08:44.180 And he sat at the piano and he plays dun, dun, dun, dun.

00:08:47.480 He said, sing that.

00:08:48.200 And I go, dun, dun, dun, dun.

00:08:49.600 And he does it like four times.

00:08:50.980 I miss every note.

00:08:52.660 He goes, yeah, okay.

00:08:53.860 So I cast as Bill Sykes, which is the second male lead.

00:08:56.640 And it's the non-singing lead.

00:08:57.880 In high school, you create a non-singing role for people like me.

00:09:00.320 Now, it's the villain.

00:09:01.160 I get to beat people up. 1.00

00:09:02.320 I'm a total jerk. 1.00

00:09:03.320 But it still pains me. 1.00

00:09:05.980 I should have been Fagan. 0.99

00:09:07.900 I could have been a contender.

00:09:09.680 But anyway, so you're.

00:09:12.480 Are you still a villain or no?

00:09:14.640 You know, ask the best.

00:09:15.700 Yes, a little bit.

00:09:17.640 Let me ask Siri.

00:09:18.760 Is Ted Cruz a villain that says yes?

00:09:20.400 Yeah, it does.

00:09:20.960 Oh, yeah.

00:09:21.380 Wikipedia, you should be.

00:09:23.040 Look, Dr. Evil ain't got nothing on me.

00:09:25.980 I just want to be on your side, don't you?

00:09:27.720 I want to be on your side.

00:09:29.360 All right.

00:09:29.840 So.

00:09:32.680 You go from that.

00:09:33.600 By the way, I recently, talking about the villain, I recently, my 15-year-old daughter,

00:09:39.640 Catherine, her friend, was asking for a good movie to watch.

00:09:42.500 And so I recommended Coming to America, which I'd never seen.

00:09:44.940 Great movie.

00:09:45.500 Yes.

00:09:45.780 And it starts off early on with James Earl Jones.

00:09:48.880 And so, you know, I was asking them, like, what famous voice did James Earl Jones play?

00:09:55.300 And it tells you something that three 15-year-old had no idea.

00:10:00.440 And I said, listen.

00:10:00.540 Darth Vader.

00:10:01.520 Who was, of course, voted the number one villain of the past century in movies.

00:10:06.160 And none of the 15-year-olds recognized Darth Vader's voice.

00:10:09.240 All right.

00:10:09.480 Wow.

00:10:09.920 Yeah.

00:10:10.400 So we didn't get to sports.

00:10:11.500 I'm sorry.

00:10:11.840 So here's what happens to me.

00:10:13.040 So how do I get into coaching?

00:10:15.200 What happens?

00:10:16.400 So I decided to go to Boston College.

00:10:19.080 I'm, again, an athlete.

00:10:21.200 I walked on the basketball team, got cut, because I was still not a good enough athlete to be

00:10:25.600 able to make it.

00:10:26.400 But the head coach, Dr. Tom Davis, kind of saw something in me and my intensity and whatever.

00:10:30.540 I became a manager.

00:10:32.140 And my advice to people is, whatever you do.

00:10:33.480 Let me stop real quick.

00:10:34.480 Yeah.

00:10:35.040 Why hoops?

00:10:35.880 I guess not football, because you're needed.

00:10:37.220 Yeah.

00:10:37.680 Right.

00:10:37.940 Not football.

00:10:38.660 I played baseball.

00:10:39.360 I was a really good baseball player.

00:10:40.740 I had a varsity baseball career at Sharon High School, but couldn't play basketball.

00:10:45.360 Couldn't play.

00:10:45.900 I was, actually, at that point, I had to be a first baseman, because I was limited in

00:10:49.920 my movement.

00:10:50.440 We won the league championship, and I had a good run.

00:10:53.400 But the point was, I couldn't play basketball at Boston College, but I worked for the program.

00:10:59.820 I just made myself important.

00:11:01.600 Yeah.

00:11:01.920 I wasn't planning on being a coach.

00:11:03.740 I just kind of was having fun.

00:11:05.400 I was selling tickets.

00:11:06.660 I was a practice player.

00:11:08.560 I was refereeing.

00:11:09.300 I was helping him run his camp.

00:11:10.540 I was doing all these different things just for poops and giggles.

00:11:12.980 Yeah.

00:11:13.160 I was going to leave college and going to go to Israel and join the Army for a couple

00:11:16.660 of years and serve a little bit.

00:11:17.940 That's what I kind of was going to do.

00:11:19.280 Right.

00:11:19.440 But he got the Stanford job my senior year, and all of a sudden, he calls me.

00:11:23.800 One day, he calls me over to his house.

00:11:26.200 The only time he ever called me to his house was when the dean of students caught me streaking

00:11:29.860 across campus, and they were going to throw me out of school.

00:11:33.560 And I was the only Jew on campus, so I was circumcised.

00:11:36.520 I'm going to make a terrible confession. 0.93

00:11:39.220 You were a streaker, too?

00:11:40.420 You and I share that in common.

00:11:42.120 Well, you know what?

00:11:42.660 That was back in the day.

00:11:43.740 That was popular back then.

00:11:45.300 So this is a terrible admission.

00:11:46.600 So, look, as you know, I went to Princeton.

00:11:48.360 That's not the terrible admission, although some would say it is.

00:11:50.140 Oh, that I'm going to say it.

00:11:51.520 Yeah, nowadays.

00:11:51.920 We don't brag about that quite so much.

00:11:53.460 So for 100 years, Princeton had a tradition that was called the Nude Olympics, and it occurred 0.92

00:12:00.160 on the night of the first snowfall of the year that sophomores would strip down.

00:12:05.580 Little chili.

00:12:06.100 Little chili.

00:12:06.940 Run through, you know, as they say at Seinfeld, shrinkage.

00:12:09.840 A little shrinkage.

00:12:10.260 A little shrinkage.

00:12:11.420 It's cold.

00:12:12.160 It's cold outside.

00:12:13.080 But, and you would run through the campus, and you'd do jumping jacks and events, and

00:12:17.980 it was a 100-year-old tradition.

00:12:20.420 So that was, yeah.

00:12:21.140 So you gave the peer pressure is what you're telling me.

00:12:23.380 I am confident there's no photographic evidence, but I did keep on my boots and a scarf.

00:12:28.860 That's good.

00:12:29.780 You had a little fashion sense.

00:12:31.080 And it was, anyway.

00:12:33.440 So bottom line, no matter what you're doing, make yourself valuable.

00:12:36.420 So when Tom Davis left Boston College to go to Stanford, he asked this 21-year-old manager

00:12:42.340 to come with him and be an assistant coach.

00:12:43.980 Why?

00:12:44.780 Because when it came down, well, who's doing this, or who's doing that?

00:12:47.860 You were doing it.

00:12:48.360 I was doing it.

00:12:49.540 And I wasn't doing it to get a job.

00:12:51.180 I wasn't doing it for the reward.

00:12:53.260 So no matter where you are, people want to know how to be successful, what's your next

00:12:56.680 thing.

00:12:57.160 Don't worry about what's next.

00:12:58.400 Be unbelievable where you are.

00:13:00.540 And either God's going to have a plan for you, or just going to put yourself in a position

00:13:03.480 to be successful.

00:13:04.180 That's great life advice.

00:13:04.720 And that's what I did.

00:13:05.300 When did you know you wanted to coach?

00:13:06.920 Like, when did that transition happen?

00:13:08.380 So my whole deal was always I made people better around me.

00:13:12.160 I recognized that there were four other guys out there on the court, and they needed to

00:13:15.160 do their job.

00:13:15.700 And I loved to win.

00:13:16.700 I mean, I loved to win at all costs, right?

00:13:18.700 And so my ability to encourage them, challenge them, know when to give them some support,

00:13:29.820 but also hold them accountable, whatever it was.

00:13:31.680 I was always a coach on the floor.

00:13:33.520 Now, how do you get started?

00:13:34.620 Look, it's one thing when you're Bruce Carroll.

00:13:36.080 I'm like, people can't, but look, you're a 21, 22-year-old assistant coach at Stanford.

00:13:40.400 You're playing with players who can shoot lights out.

00:13:44.280 And they were old.

00:13:44.960 Some of the kids on the team were older than I was when I was an assistant coach.

00:13:47.840 Yeah.

00:13:47.900 And you know, they can fly through the air and dunk.

00:13:49.880 They can do things that you, how did you get the credibility when you're just starting

00:13:54.520 for them to listen and say, okay, I want to listen to what this guy has to say?

00:13:57.840 Sometimes don't talk.

00:13:59.280 Your presence is your gift.

00:14:01.160 I'd be the first one in the gym.

00:14:02.820 I'd rebound for them.

00:14:03.940 You'd think that while I was rebounding for them, I'd say something about their shot.

00:14:06.900 How about just be there for an hour and not say a word?

00:14:09.220 And then get them to go there the next day and the next day.

00:14:11.860 I don't care.

00:14:12.780 I don't have to teach them anything.

00:14:14.040 I need to get them in the gym.

00:14:15.540 I need to be in there.

00:14:16.180 I need to be in there.

00:14:16.820 I need to be before they get there.

00:14:18.200 I need to stay after.

00:14:19.000 And then it's just choose your words wisely.

00:14:21.720 I would be a parrot for my head coach.

00:14:23.900 I listen to what I say.

00:14:25.020 I listen to what he said.

00:14:25.660 And when I got comfortable enough, I said the same things.

00:14:27.920 So all I was doing was reinforcing his messages.

00:14:30.580 And so when I left Dr. Tom Davis, after some 14 years as his assistant, he gave me two pieces

00:14:36.120 of advice.

00:14:36.820 He says, number one, be yourself.

00:14:38.940 That way you could be authentic.

00:14:40.280 He was a doctor.

00:14:41.440 He was quieter than I was.

00:14:42.820 I'm passionate.

00:14:43.500 I'm emotional.

00:14:44.300 He said, look, that way you don't have to fake it.

00:14:46.200 But the second thing is do what we do.

00:14:49.000 You know our system.

00:14:50.320 Teach what, like, sometimes coaches, they want to beg, borrow, and steal from it.

00:14:53.940 Well, when I get to be a coach, I'm going to do this.

00:14:55.440 I'm going to do that.

00:14:56.140 Look, I know what I know.

00:14:57.420 You know what you know.

00:14:59.160 Okay?

00:14:59.520 Teach that.

00:15:00.420 It's not so much what you do, but it's how you do it, how you can teach it.

00:15:03.120 So what was the system?

00:15:04.580 What are the episodes?

00:15:05.420 Up-tempo, fast break.

00:15:06.800 Gary Williams, who was at Maryland, was also under Dr. Tom Davis.

00:15:10.400 Gary won a Division I National Championship.

00:15:12.140 We were very up-tempo.

00:15:14.020 We trusted our players.

00:15:15.740 Sometimes you sometimes get confused and thinking great coaches are coaches that are,

00:15:19.740 oh, those kids are really patient.

00:15:20.940 They hold the ball.

00:15:21.720 That's because they don't trust their players.

00:15:23.820 To get the most out of your players, you've got to empower them a little bit.

00:15:26.980 My job was to see something in them they didn't see in themselves.

00:15:29.860 Put them in positions to be successful.

00:15:32.200 I didn't need five great ball handles. 0.52

00:15:33.660 I needed one.

00:15:34.500 I needed five great shooters.

00:15:35.680 All that helped if they could shoot.

00:15:36.740 I just needed a couple.

00:15:37.900 I needed a guy that could rebound.

00:15:39.000 I loved roles.

00:15:40.140 I loved dimensions.

00:15:40.880 So one of the things I tell people is have a dimension in an organization.

00:15:44.600 Yes, sometimes you need a glue guy.

00:15:46.060 Somebody that's good at everything, but I'd rather have somebody that's great at this

00:15:49.460 but can't do that.

00:15:50.160 I'll hide that.

00:15:50.960 I'll hide what they can't do, but give me this.

00:15:53.520 And that's what I think made me – one of the things that made me a good coach.

00:15:55.660 All right.

00:15:55.900 So over your career, how many games have you won?

00:15:58.880 I think over 700, but I'm not even sure.

00:16:01.020 I know it's a big number, but it's –

00:16:02.900 It's a little over 700.

00:16:04.100 I'm not even exactly sure.

00:16:05.980 So what's – all right.

00:16:08.460 What's the difference between a bad coach, a good coach, and a great coach?

00:16:14.260 Yeah, great.

00:16:14.980 So Pat Dye, the legendary football coach, said you can coach them as hard as you love them.

00:16:19.620 And one of the challenges right now in college sports is the transfer portal

00:16:24.440 and kids only stay in one year.

00:16:25.720 Yeah.

00:16:26.200 Like I tell my guys –

00:16:27.320 And let's be clear.

00:16:28.380 That's not a year.

00:16:29.180 It's six months.

00:16:30.020 Right, right.

00:16:30.740 I can't love my kids in a year.

00:16:34.260 And I think love is a word that's overused.

00:16:36.300 I love some of my friends.

00:16:37.760 I love my family.

00:16:38.900 I love my country.

00:16:40.340 Yeah.

00:16:40.760 But it doesn't come quickly.

00:16:42.860 It's – you've got to go through some stuff.

00:16:44.540 Trials and tribulations.

00:16:45.460 Yes.

00:16:45.660 Ups and downs.

00:16:46.540 Yes.

00:16:47.260 I need to be one they call me when they've got to break it up with a girl 1.00

00:16:50.560 or something happened at home.

00:16:53.240 Somebody's sick and somebody's going to die.

00:16:54.880 We go through some stuff and be there when they're not successful,

00:16:58.380 not give up on them.

00:16:59.320 And then all of a sudden they become something.

00:17:00.740 And you were there when you believed when nobody else did.

00:17:03.340 And so coach them as hard as you love them.

00:17:05.240 Billy Donovan said this, and I agree with him.

00:17:07.520 He said we all can coach them to play hard.

00:17:09.740 We all teach pretty good defense.

00:17:11.260 He said the great coaches are the ones that are the great offensive coaches

00:17:14.380 that can create offense to get guys really good shots and really good looks.

00:17:18.740 We all can defend.

00:17:19.880 We all can get our kids to play hard.

00:17:21.520 But the brilliant coaches are the ones that understand offense.

00:17:25.240 When you look at the – let's get into NIL.

00:17:27.860 No, no.

00:17:28.140 I want to ask a few more coaching questions.

00:17:29.400 Okay.

00:17:29.600 We'll get to NIL.

00:17:30.460 We'll get to NIL.

00:17:31.080 But it was coaching NIL.

00:17:33.260 We're going in there.

00:17:34.860 All right.

00:17:34.980 We'll back it up.

00:17:35.520 I'm ready to go.

00:17:36.040 All right.

00:17:36.420 So let's say this.

00:17:37.660 You know he's a basketball – like he's obsessed.

00:17:40.120 Yeah.

00:17:41.260 Do you know he shoots twice a week?

00:17:43.340 Plays twice a week.

00:17:44.060 I understand that.

00:17:44.960 I play twice a week.

00:17:45.820 And you know there's two amazing basketball courts within a driver from where we are.

00:17:50.460 Yes.

00:17:50.980 There's a Supreme Court one.

00:17:52.220 I was there today for the – like the Supreme Court has – they have a basketball court

00:17:55.160 at the Supreme Court.

00:17:55.840 Did you know this?

00:17:56.300 I play three times a week.

00:17:57.580 So the Supreme Court court is above the courtroom.

00:18:00.120 Wow.

00:18:00.280 So the floor of the court is the roof of the courtroom.

00:18:02.720 This is not a joke.

00:18:03.660 That's crazy. 0.87

00:18:04.360 You hear the balls bounce every now and then?

00:18:06.060 You cannot play during oral arguments because you'll hear the balls bounce.

00:18:08.860 So it's actually a rule.

00:18:09.860 No dribbling during an argument.

00:18:11.060 That's crazy.

00:18:11.580 And do you know the nickname for it?

00:18:13.680 The Highest Court in the Land.

00:18:14.600 The Highest Court in the Land.

00:18:16.060 That's good.

00:18:17.000 That's good.

00:18:17.120 And it's a weird court because the roof is kind of low.

00:18:20.620 So you have to develop this weird-ass jump shot that's almost like a line.

00:18:24.700 If you have a normal arc –

00:18:25.640 It's like Papa Shot.

00:18:26.420 You'll get blocked by the ceiling.

00:18:28.540 So the folks that are regulars there have a very strange jump shot.

00:18:31.500 Don't tell me seven-footers have to duck. 0.97

00:18:33.720 It's got a higher ceiling.

00:18:35.020 It's not quite that low.

00:18:35.960 It's not quite that bad.

00:18:36.960 But all right.

00:18:38.040 Let's say – so we have a lot of young people that listen to this show.

00:18:40.740 Let's say we've got a kid who's 15, 16.

00:18:43.680 Yeah.

00:18:44.260 He's a high school athlete and wants to make it in college, basketball, football, whatever sport.

00:18:49.860 Yeah.

00:18:50.440 What's the key for a kid with some skill but doesn't know if he can make it?

00:18:54.120 What does a kid want to do to actually have a shot at playing in college?

00:18:57.720 Well, back in the day, we used to play football, basketball, and baseball.

00:19:00.320 We all played all the sports, you know.

00:19:02.240 I'm sure as a tennis player, you play all the sports, right?

00:19:04.240 Yeah, play everything.

00:19:05.120 And so kids are beginning to sort of maybe cut it down to one or two.

00:19:09.680 You know, not just one.

00:19:10.980 Hyper-specialization.

00:19:11.440 Try specialization.

00:19:11.880 Actually, when your kids are six or seven, they're telling you to specialize.

00:19:14.300 No, no, no.

00:19:14.700 Don't do it then.

00:19:15.440 But do it as you get into college.

00:19:16.580 Don't play every sport.

00:19:17.460 Play a couple of high school sports.

00:19:18.600 But narrow it down a little bit.

00:19:21.640 Obviously, the things that they're, you know, nutrition now is a factor.

00:19:24.660 The kids are doing a better job taking care of the body.

00:19:26.440 They're specialized.

00:19:27.420 Our kids now are way more physically mature than they were back in the day.

00:19:30.680 Interesting.

00:19:31.140 Because the money is bigger.

00:19:32.360 They're closer to the money.

00:19:33.540 So they're getting more disciplined and they're working out more.

00:19:38.480 And, I mean, again, I kind of go back to advice.

00:19:43.520 Have a dimension on the court.

00:19:45.400 You know, do something really well that a coach can obviously, you know, can use.

00:19:49.640 What is your thing is the question, right?

00:19:51.860 What makes him special?

00:19:53.980 I mean, that's what you're saying is important for you to stand out when you're getting recruited.

00:19:58.040 All right, Ben, what was your game in tennis?

00:19:59.560 Were you served?

00:20:00.200 No, I was known as being slow, having a massive serve, and having an unbelievable ad court return.

00:20:07.320 And so that paid for college.

00:20:08.460 You were a backstop.

00:20:09.320 Like, there's just, you're going to continue to get, send it back, send it back, send it back, and wear him out.

00:20:12.820 Yeah.

00:20:13.220 I mean, it was, he's going to serve through you and he's going to, and he will always have you in doubles and you'll win more points.

00:20:18.820 That was what paid for college.

00:20:19.720 I mean, for me, tough, obviously toughness, mental and physical toughness wind up winning.

00:20:24.500 At the end of the day, a physically and a mentally tough guy is going to win.

00:20:29.680 It's like when dogs kind of get in a fight.

00:20:32.000 Yeah.

00:20:32.260 They kind of know who the big dog is.

00:20:34.360 And the big dog may not be the biggest dog out there, but he's a badass.

00:20:38.320 And so it's something, toughness isn't something that you can really teach, but you sure can expose it.

00:20:44.280 It can be exposed.

00:20:46.100 And so soft kids don't make it. 1.00

00:20:48.040 All right.

00:20:48.160 What makes a great shooter?

00:20:50.040 I think the eye.

00:20:51.540 I think, I think guys that have incredible eyes that are able to focus on that target and hit the target.

00:20:59.040 That's two answers you gave.

00:21:00.660 They see it.

00:21:01.380 Nutrition I wouldn't have predicted and the eye.

00:21:03.040 Well, the eye and seeing it.

00:21:04.600 Like mentally, like if you were, as a tennis player, you had to actually see and mentally see that serve when you toss it up there and hit it through.

00:21:12.100 Great baseball players can see that ball coming in over there.

00:21:14.200 Remember they say Ted Williams could see the seams on the curveball like he had just crazy good.

00:21:19.920 A true story.

00:21:21.540 My coach said to me, he goes, there will be a time in your life when you will be able to have a serve hit at you and you'll be able to tell me the number and who makes the ball.

00:21:29.660 And it happened for me for three days and I never got it back.

00:21:32.520 But you could hit ball as hard as you want to serve 115, 120 miles an hour.

00:21:36.580 And I could tell you it was a Wilson, he was hoping three or a pin four.

00:21:39.960 And I don't know what happens in your brain, but it's the same thing with it.

00:21:42.640 Now, I never got it back, but he didn't lie.

00:21:45.820 And that he was like the guys that are the greats could see that the majority of the time.

00:21:49.260 Look, and I got to tell you, if you play me ping pong and you hit the ball at me, I can tell you what color the ball is.

00:21:53.920 That's good.

00:21:54.880 Usually it's orange.

00:21:55.740 It's a white ball, an orange ball.

00:21:56.980 I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's that good.

00:21:59.560 It's that good.

00:22:00.420 It's a gift.

00:22:01.020 It's a gift.

00:22:01.580 Yeah, he should have been recruited.

00:22:02.920 NIL would have loved this guy.

00:22:04.440 Can you go on a ping pong scholarship?

00:22:05.920 I don't know.

00:22:06.920 Not in my game, a terrible ping pong player.

00:22:08.320 In Asia, in Asia, that might be a thing. 0.95

00:22:10.800 I'm not Forrest Gump.

00:22:12.060 Forrest Gump.

00:22:12.460 Yeah, yeah.

00:22:14.020 All right.

00:22:14.980 Let's talk NIL.

00:22:17.060 Yep.

00:22:17.840 How has NIL changed college sports?

00:22:21.840 Yeah.

00:22:22.440 Do you love it or hate it?

00:22:23.440 Can I just ask that?

00:22:23.980 Well, first of all, the NCAA was arrogant and not recognizing that they were sitting on our country's

00:22:31.160 biggest antitrust violation.

00:22:32.880 Yes. 0.95

00:22:33.220 They were just arrogant.

00:22:34.500 And we had smart people in the industry.

00:22:36.180 And the fact that they wanted to fight for amateurism when it wasn't realistic, when everybody

00:22:42.440 was making all this money.

00:22:43.920 I was a big believer, obviously, Scott College Scholarships and what that industry did for

00:22:50.860 our country.

00:22:51.980 Think about it.

00:22:52.740 Those rural Americans that never dreamed of going to college, all of a sudden, they 0.99

00:22:57.460 had the opportunity through something that they maybe were good at in sports, got them

00:23:01.020 on the campus.

00:23:01.980 And inner city kids, lots of kids that couldn't afford it, that had no history of family going

00:23:07.420 to college.

00:23:08.020 Weren't ever thinking about it.

00:23:09.260 All of a sudden, because academics may not have been something they were good at.

00:23:13.600 Nobody likes to do anything they're not good at, but they like sports. 0.75

00:23:16.740 Then they went to college and they got caught up and figured out they weren't dumb.

00:23:20.440 They just weren't prepared. 0.99

00:23:22.400 Women. 0.81

00:23:24.240 There weren't as many women on college campuses back in the day. 1.00

00:23:27.560 Intercollegiate athletics, Title IX.

00:23:29.480 Exploded it.

00:23:30.520 Exploded women on campus. 1.00

00:23:32.500 And there is no other.

00:23:35.580 University intercollegiate athletics is American.

00:23:38.380 Yeah.

00:23:38.880 There's no other place in the world that does what we do.

00:23:41.620 So we've got a unique system that right now needs fixing because it's a disaster.

00:23:48.140 It's chaos off the court.

00:23:50.160 On the field and on the court, it's great.

00:23:52.760 The product that we're putting out is really, really good.

00:23:56.160 But the problem is what we're paying our top student athletes because everybody wants 0.86

00:24:02.260 to win is ridiculous.

00:24:04.660 Back in the day, 10 years ago, you couldn't give them a hamburger. 0.97

00:24:07.540 Now you can buy them a hamburger restaurant.

00:24:09.080 It's not against the rules.

00:24:10.040 Yeah.

00:24:10.140 Literally, the top college football programs that are competing right now, their rosters

00:24:17.180 are between $35 and $40 million for that roster right now.

00:24:21.300 And most schools can't afford it.

00:24:22.600 Most schools can't afford it.

00:24:24.440 So most schools aren't there.

00:24:25.400 But the schools that are playing right now and still playing right now are there.

00:24:28.580 Yeah.

00:24:28.700 Why is Indiana and Miami there?

00:24:30.480 Great coaching, great kids, great support.

00:24:32.840 But Indiana would be a great example.

00:24:34.280 All of a sudden, Mark Cuban, the people at Indiana said, you know what?

00:24:36.520 We're going to be committed.

00:24:37.400 Yep.

00:24:38.040 Now, the challenge is, are you going to do it every year?

00:24:40.820 And it's one thing in your world.

00:24:43.400 You've got to raise $20 million for an election, $30 million, whatever it is.

00:24:47.820 Or $200 million.

00:24:49.160 I'm going to add zero to that.

00:24:50.900 My last race was a quarter billion dollar race.

00:24:53.400 And I said $1,000.

00:24:54.860 Very happy to have supported you.

00:24:56.120 Thank you.

00:24:56.700 Yeah, absolutely.

00:24:57.560 I'm going to confess I didn't know that.

00:24:58.820 That's really cool.

00:24:59.480 Very happy to have supported you.

00:25:00.460 Thank you.

00:25:01.480 But every year.

00:25:03.280 Every year.

00:25:03.880 If you had a campaign every year and you had to raise that money every year, that's

00:25:06.700 what's happening.

00:25:07.540 In college sports.

00:25:08.560 College sports is losing an enormous amount of money.

00:25:11.580 We can't continue to afford it.

00:25:13.360 And so who's going to suffer from it?

00:25:14.640 At some point, Olympic sports are going to get cut.

00:25:17.060 Yep.

00:25:17.460 We're in the Olympics.

00:25:18.360 And we're seeing that.

00:25:19.280 Schools are canceling programs every day.

00:25:21.360 They're doing it now.

00:25:22.020 And smaller schools are also in trouble.

00:25:23.720 Yep.

00:25:24.280 Division II, Division III.

00:25:25.800 Yes.

00:25:26.440 If we don't do something, I think we're going to wake up soon.

00:25:30.860 And there's going to be 30 to 50 programs.

00:25:34.000 And the top programs will survive and have all the money.

00:25:36.820 And I think everyone else goes under unless we do so.

00:25:39.220 Correct.

00:25:39.580 Canadian women are looking for more. 1.00

00:25:42.800 More out of themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world around

00:25:46.540 them.

00:25:46.900 And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast.

00:25:50.580 I'm Jennifer Stewart.

00:25:51.780 And I'm Catherine Clark.

00:25:53.040 And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women.

00:25:56.840 Entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, politicians, and newsmakers.

00:26:00.100 All at different stages of their journey.

00:26:02.560 So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us.

00:26:05.780 Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on iHeartRadio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

00:26:09.840 This subject makes me mad because I'm mad at the NCAA for allowing us to get to this point.

00:26:16.260 And I'll say it quickly.

00:26:17.940 I watched the corruption when I was at Ole Miss.

00:26:21.260 And what does corruption look like?

00:26:23.560 Roommate of mine had to go get money in cash so mom could come to the game. 1.00

00:26:27.940 Grew up in Arkansas, literally grew up in a trailer.

00:26:31.400 And it was, what does mom need to get you to come to school here?

00:26:34.720 We were paying players.

00:26:37.140 It was there.

00:26:38.320 Every athlete knew it was.

00:26:39.880 The idea that people weren't getting paid.

00:26:41.480 I like to say SMU was doing NIL before it was called.

00:26:44.380 That's true.

00:26:44.980 They were pioneers.

00:26:46.900 But the NCAA knew it, Bruce.

00:26:48.840 And that's the part that makes me angry now is like they've created this chaos.

00:26:52.360 Well, they created it by not policing it and figuring it out sooner.

00:26:55.720 Because they owned us.

00:26:57.380 And I say this as an athlete, like a modern day slave.

00:26:59.600 You made all this money off of our work.

00:27:01.740 You made all this cash off the TV rights.

00:27:04.260 Everyone was getting.

00:27:05.300 I've ever seen.

00:27:05.760 I told you.

00:27:06.360 It really makes me mad because I see these kids that are suffering.

00:27:10.860 The parents that just want to show up for the game.

00:27:12.600 Then they're having to do shady deals where mom gets cash so she can drive to the game. 1.00

00:27:16.780 But they're making millions in all the seats and all the tickets and everything else.

00:27:20.440 And we were abused as an athlete.

00:27:22.320 I think it is modern day slavery what they did.

00:27:24.760 Now it's gone the other way.

00:27:26.120 And they're like, well, this is a terrible thing for the athletes.

00:27:28.920 There has to be an in-between.

00:27:30.060 Yeah.

00:27:30.460 But my point is don't pull it all the way back where let's make it an honest living.

00:27:35.600 I think guys like Tim Tebow is a great example of this.

00:27:38.200 Tim Tebow or a Texas A&M guy.

00:27:40.300 What's his name?

00:27:41.320 Johnny Manziel.

00:27:42.040 Yeah, Johnny Manziel.

00:27:43.140 The amount of money they're bringing into these programs.

00:27:45.960 And if you get hurt, you don't go to the next level.

00:27:48.640 You don't get to go to the NFL.

00:27:49.720 You deserve to get paid while you're a pro athlete at a university.

00:27:54.520 That's what you are.

00:27:55.340 I say that to also say I am concerned.

00:27:57.260 I played a non-sport that made money.

00:28:00.280 I don't want to see golf disappear, tennis disappear, women's swimming, archery, whatever it may be.

00:28:06.880 How do we rein it in?

00:28:08.260 It's a grand idea.

00:28:09.640 I say I get frustrated because I genuinely still hate the NCAA right now.

00:28:13.360 I cannot stand them.

00:28:14.200 And if you go and poll athletes, if you did a poll right now of the last 20 years of college athletes in Division I, they will tell you they hate the NCAA.

00:28:23.500 Why?

00:28:23.660 Because they never protected them.

00:28:25.320 They never took care of us.

00:28:26.740 And then every time we asked a question, you know what they said? 0.99

00:28:29.040 Shut up and sit down. 0.96

00:28:30.520 You're a student athlete. 1.00

00:28:31.740 You're here for free.

00:28:32.700 Be quiet.

00:28:33.320 If you ask questions about expenses or anything else, you know what they do?

00:28:36.820 They would investigate your team and punish you if you ask questions.

00:28:41.060 So my point is this.

00:28:42.920 If you don't protect the student athletes moving forward, they're going to get screwed again when you do the new deal.

00:28:48.820 And that's where I asked you as a coach, as a former coach now, how do you do both? 0.64

00:28:53.660 Because I'm telling you the kids will get screwed again because there's too much money not to screw them if you don't pay attention. 0.93

00:28:59.180 So I'm worried. 0.96

00:29:00.080 I'm worried that I almost like the Wild West more because at least it's an honest day's work.

00:29:04.640 And all the betting that's going on now, it's insane.

00:29:08.180 The amount of money around college sports is insane.

00:29:10.200 Everyone's getting paid.

00:29:11.420 So part of me is like, as a kid, I'm like, if my kid's good enough, bring me the cash too.

00:29:15.780 You're making money off of every game of every play.

00:29:18.120 By the way, when he says if his kid's good enough, bring him the cash.

00:29:20.660 This is not hypothetical because his sons, he had one son who was the number two golfer in the world for his age bracket.

00:29:28.160 How old?

00:29:29.640 He started at six.

00:29:31.000 Now he's nine.

00:29:31.740 So I have a twin at six.

00:29:34.300 He's seventh.

00:29:34.900 Auburn won a national championship in golf last year.

00:29:36.840 Oh, yeah.

00:29:37.340 We've got two of the top ten amateurs in the world on our team right now.

00:29:40.960 Ben's already buying a beach house off of his boys.

00:29:44.460 But I worry about this.

00:29:45.840 How many kids are going to get screwed if you overcorrect? 0.95

00:29:48.340 Right. 0.93

00:29:48.760 So I ask that with passion as a former athlete.

00:29:51.180 I think what they did to these kids is wrong.

00:29:52.880 The way they were treated was wrong.

00:29:54.060 The way the parents have to – some suffer while they're making all this cash off.

00:29:57.460 It's not fair.

00:29:58.320 Right.

00:29:59.000 Well, you're right about some of the inequalities.

00:30:01.920 I can remember before NIL, we'd make the NCAA tournament and we'd travel wherever we were traveling to.

00:30:09.380 And they might send us to Seattle.

00:30:10.760 They might send us to Utah or whatever.

00:30:12.680 And I had parents of some of my players that would take a bus and they'd travel out there.

00:30:18.640 They'd stay at a YWCA or YMCA.

00:30:21.320 Yeah.

00:30:21.500 I would pray for victory just so they wouldn't have to watch the game lose and then get back on the bus and leave.

00:30:28.620 In other words, like before we could help families get there, it was actually – there was a lot of cost involved in trying to support your –

00:30:36.600 So we were way behind in trying to take the pendulum, obviously, as one.

00:30:40.620 So basically, in its simplest terms, and the senator understands this, the courts have ruled that the NCAA, the way it was set up, setting these rules of eligibility or whether you could transfer or what your academics could be or what scholarship was allowed and what's an extra benefit,

00:30:57.260 all those rules were agreed to by the parties that beat without the student-athletes being involved.

00:31:03.220 We were the modern-day slaves.

00:31:04.180 And so when somebody took that to court, they said, wait a second, why can't I transfer?

00:31:10.140 Coach can go from Texas to Texas A&M if he wants to.

00:31:13.020 And I go from Texas A&M.

00:31:14.480 I have to sit out a year.

00:31:15.580 And the court said, hmm, yeah, you're right.

00:31:17.540 And look, by the way, no coach would ever go save Ole Miss to LSU.

00:31:21.520 No, never.

00:31:22.540 Never would happen.

00:31:23.980 It's an abusive relationship, I tell you.

00:31:25.860 I know you were rooting so hard for Ole Miss to win an Addy.

00:31:28.820 I told him.

00:31:29.580 I told him.

00:31:30.140 Because you were watching.

00:31:31.100 Oh, yes.

00:31:31.400 You wanted to win an Addy championship.

00:31:32.880 So Lane would be sitting there in some hotel room watching that.

00:31:36.320 I told him.

00:31:36.780 But he would have gotten a bigger bonus.

00:31:37.900 Yeah.

00:31:38.280 I love it.

00:31:39.940 That would be awesome if Lane and his contract would have got paid if they wanted to.

00:31:42.920 By LSU.

00:31:43.620 I didn't care.

00:31:44.240 Pay him the money.

00:31:45.020 I said to him beforehand.

00:31:46.080 I said, I have a list.

00:31:46.880 Don't forget, Coach Kiffin built that team.

00:31:48.780 Yeah, I know.

00:31:49.440 But here's my thing.

00:31:50.360 He also abandoned that team that he built.

00:31:52.000 He abandoned that team.

00:31:53.120 Ole Miss was the one that said, look, he would have stayed and coached them.

00:31:58.080 But they gave him an ultimatum.

00:31:59.580 That's like, this is my analogy.

00:32:01.480 We're going there.

00:32:01.960 That's like me sleeping, saying, hey, honey, we're going to get a divorce.

00:32:05.020 I slept with the other woman that you caught me with, but I'll sleep with you tonight because

00:32:07.620 I'm still your husband. 0.96

00:32:08.700 That's insanity.

00:32:09.420 You know what?

00:32:09.860 When kids would have wanted to go to the transfer portal on me, and they wanted the opportunity

00:32:13.340 to maybe come back.

00:32:14.160 Yeah.

00:32:14.680 I said, so you want to go to the transfer portal.

00:32:16.500 Yeah.

00:32:16.720 You want to go get recruited.

00:32:17.740 And if things don't work out, you want to come back.

00:32:19.100 Yeah.

00:32:19.440 They said, okay.

00:32:20.080 Some people like me saying to Brandy.

00:32:21.460 Brandy, my wife, coming to me, saying, hey, honey, listen, I love you, but I want to get

00:32:24.920 the transfer portal.

00:32:25.780 And if things don't work out, I want to come back.

00:32:27.920 Yeah.

00:32:28.300 No.

00:32:28.820 No.

00:32:29.180 You want to get a treat.

00:32:30.360 You're out. 1.00

00:32:30.680 You're dead to me. 1.00

00:32:31.240 You're out. 1.00

00:32:31.620 When Lane left and he said, I'm leaving, you are dead to me. 0.99

00:32:33.780 Okay.

00:32:33.960 So you know what?

00:32:34.460 You need to get over it.

00:32:35.440 I'm fine.

00:32:35.840 Like you're not over it.

00:32:36.420 I moved on.

00:32:36.840 Ben, you're not.

00:32:37.220 He's on my bar fight list.

00:32:38.560 I've got a few Democrats on there and Lane Kiffin. 0.86

00:32:40.700 It's on the list.

00:32:41.440 Like if I get a mugshot, you know it's going to be worth it.

00:32:43.640 You'll bail me out, right?

00:32:45.400 I'm right behind you.

00:32:46.360 Right behind.

00:32:46.780 Okay.

00:32:47.020 Good.

00:32:47.360 Good.

00:32:48.240 So where are we right now?

00:32:51.620 Number one, we need to recognize the urgency.

00:32:53.140 This has to be fixed because for a lot of different reasons, obviously women's sports 1.00

00:32:57.400 being cut, non-revenue sports like tennis being cut, we're losing money.

00:33:03.160 There is so much more revenue to be gained.

00:33:06.640 The NBA is like the fifth or sixth most watched sport in America.

00:33:12.180 Yeah.

00:33:12.340 College football is number two.

00:33:13.500 Yeah.

00:33:13.700 The NBA makes like twice as much money on their television contracts than college football.

00:33:17.380 Why is that, by the way?

00:33:18.160 Because the NBA bargained with the television as a unit, as the National Basketball Association.

00:33:23.920 College football, the SEC's got their contract with ESPN and the ABC.

00:33:27.240 ACC's got their big team.

00:33:28.320 The Big 12 got their whatever.

00:33:29.340 And we've left a lot of money on the table.

00:33:31.160 College football needs to become college football and maximize their revenues, which will help

00:33:36.180 pay for everybody else.

00:33:38.340 But there are no rules right now.

00:33:40.300 Right.

00:33:40.460 And the courts have said the way our laws in the land are written, you can't write these

00:33:45.500 rules and enforce them without infringing on those student athletes' rights.

00:33:49.740 So therefore, what I'm asking would be in exchange for some limited antitrust protection,

00:33:57.940 some limited antitrust protection, Congress would create some law that would at least get

00:34:05.040 us in the room and allow us to talk to the student athletes.

00:34:08.920 There's a special status that's granted to farmers when they co-op.

00:34:13.740 There's a special status that's granted to the Screen Actors Guild.

00:34:17.780 We don't want employees. 0.77

00:34:19.040 The student athletes don't want to be employees.

00:34:20.680 The university doesn't want to be employees.

00:34:22.160 We don't want a union.

00:34:23.220 We don't want to have that kind of collective bargaining to negotiate.

00:34:25.580 But we've got to be able to have college athletics, student athletes, and people that

00:34:29.860 will represent them, call them agents or call them lawyers, get in the same room with

00:34:33.500 some leaders, providing some antitrust protection, and let them come up with an agreement.

00:34:39.220 We can do it.

00:34:40.680 But without a little bit of help from Congress, a little bit of legislation, figuring out a

00:34:44.820 way to guess in the room, I don't know what the fix is.

00:34:49.640 Yeah.

00:34:49.820 And as you know, I think it is urgent that Congress act.

00:34:53.360 I've spent three years drafting legislation, working on it.

00:34:57.080 The real question is, are we going to get bipartisan agreement?

00:34:59.520 And I have been, I would say, we are very, very close.

00:35:03.200 I have been negotiating.

00:35:05.080 I am hopeful we get it done this year.

00:35:06.920 I think if Congress doesn't act, we're going to see the college sports that all three of

00:35:11.920 us grew up with, we're going to see it decimated and unrecognizable.

00:35:15.860 And so this shouldn't be a partisan issue.

00:35:19.060 One of the great things about sports, it brings people together.

00:35:22.680 It does.

00:35:22.920 It brings people together.

00:35:23.680 And passion.

00:35:24.340 From totally different walks of life, from different parties, different races, different

00:35:28.540 ethnicities, different religions.

00:35:30.100 You can stand and cheer.

00:35:31.820 And there's something awesome about sports, about a championship.

00:35:37.260 One of the most fun parts of being in the Senate is I get to root on Texas teams.

00:35:41.360 And it is a spectacular thing.

00:35:44.940 By the way, I am a diehard Rockets fan.

00:35:48.600 You're loving Jabari Smith a little bit?

00:35:50.180 I was going to ask you, what was Jabari like coaching?

00:35:52.880 And boy, he's got, his defense is great.

00:35:55.540 His three-point shot is getting better every game.

00:35:58.180 And what was he like coaching?

00:35:59.240 He was a treasure to coach.

00:36:01.080 I think one of the things that I think when people watch athletes, they just assume that

00:36:06.300 it's God-given, that the talent is just there.

00:36:08.960 And they're just so blessed.

00:36:10.320 It doesn't hurt to be seven feet tall.

00:36:11.740 It doesn't.

00:36:12.500 But listen, Ted, that kid was in the gym every morning at six o'clock in the morning

00:36:18.120 at Sandy Creek High School.

00:36:20.860 He worked his tail off.

00:36:21.740 Worked his tail off.

00:36:22.480 He also put on some weight over the offseason.

00:36:25.300 I mean, he's got to be 20, 30 pounds heavier, and it's a totally different game because

00:36:29.620 last year he'd get pushed around by big guys.

00:36:32.220 He's now got enough meat that he's pushing them around.

00:36:34.400 He is.

00:36:35.180 And he's gotten a lot better.

00:36:36.700 But the discipline that it takes to be a trained athlete, the things you have to stay away

00:36:41.400 from as a high school kid or a college kid that maybe other kids could get away with

00:36:45.600 and things that they could do.

00:36:46.860 They can't.

00:36:47.720 And so I admire, I always tell people, you want to hire somebody in your company or hire

00:36:52.320 a student athlete.

00:36:53.580 They've tried and they've failed.

00:36:55.580 They understand what pressure is all about.

00:36:57.460 They've got discipline, their economy.

00:36:58.860 They also know how to make sacrifice on the team.

00:37:01.480 They're not worried about other people's success, which when you are just on yourself and all

00:37:05.380 of a sudden you get to the workplace and you have to sort of fit in.

00:37:07.760 It's like it's the first time you've been a part of a team, a part of a family, so on

00:37:10.640 and so forth.

00:37:11.100 So Jabari is going to be, he'll be an NBA All-Star and he's got a great tutor and Kevin being

00:37:16.660 right there.

00:37:17.820 Durant being right there with him.

00:37:19.020 What a great, what a great big brother.

00:37:20.320 We needed KD.

00:37:21.460 So last year we were number two going into the playoffs, but we didn't have a superstar.

00:37:27.520 We had a lot of great young, you know, 20, 21, 22-year-old talent that I think is awesome.

00:37:33.140 Right.

00:37:33.840 But we didn't have someone with three minutes to go.

00:37:36.380 Fourth quarter.

00:37:36.800 Fourth quarter.

00:37:37.140 You give the ball to and say, okay, we need to score.

00:37:40.440 They're going to get a bucket or they're going to get a foul. 1.00

00:37:42.000 And KD is so much fun watching him because, I mean, he, they'll triple team foul the heck

00:37:47.660 out of him and he makes that lanky fallen back 18 footer that just, how the heck do you

00:37:53.640 stop it?

00:37:54.160 And there's a reason he's what?

00:37:55.760 Number six or seven in the all-time scoring.

00:37:58.320 Yeah, right.

00:37:59.020 Like, like, it is.

00:37:59.820 They had a good team.

00:38:01.280 I love, I DVR every Rockets game.

00:38:04.460 And, and by the way, I was at game seven in 94 when we beat the Knicks and won our first

00:38:09.200 championship ever.

00:38:10.040 And, and it's, it's my favorite sports memory and, and we played at the summit and I remember

00:38:15.880 summits on, on Richmond Avenue in, in Houston, it's now Lakewood church, but it used to be

00:38:19.960 the summit.

00:38:20.600 And I remember on the street on Richmond seeing businessmen in three piece suits crying and

00:38:26.600 hugging homeless men.

00:38:28.680 By the way, the coolest backstory from that game.

00:38:31.180 So where I was sitting was right by where Bob Costas and Dr. J were broadcasting the game

00:38:37.280 and I was close enough.

00:38:38.660 I could hear him.

00:38:39.280 Wow.

00:38:40.040 And when the TV cameras were off, Dr. J gave Costas so much grief and he was saying, man, 0.99

00:38:49.140 your Knicks suck. 0.94

00:38:50.700 That's awesome. 1.00

00:38:51.700 They are horrible. 0.99

00:38:52.320 And that was the funniest part of the game is Dr. J could talk some trash. 0.99

00:38:55.920 Yeah. 0.99

00:38:56.580 He's a trash talker pro. 0.99

00:38:58.100 He's pro at it. 0.94

00:38:58.960 It was the funniest part of the game, but, but there's, there's a, all right.

00:39:02.880 Of all the players you've seen, and let's exclude your own players.

00:39:06.300 Cause I don't want to put you in an awkward, but, but of all the players you've seen

00:39:09.200 coaching, who's the best basketball player you've ever seen that you've said, holy cow,

00:39:14.660 that guy's got something.

00:39:16.080 The player?

00:39:16.880 Player.

00:39:17.160 Probably seeing Michael Jordan.

00:39:19.740 Probably seeing him.

00:39:20.320 I saw him when he was at North Carolina.

00:39:21.720 Oh, did you really?

00:39:22.300 I was an assistant at Stanford.

00:39:24.060 And the thing about him.

00:39:25.380 He was tiny then, by the way.

00:39:26.680 He was a little thinner, but you know, you know, when you go to a thoroughbred racetrack

00:39:32.000 and you see the legs and the horses, just different on the, on those thoroughbreds.

00:39:36.740 Yeah.

00:39:37.000 He had a different, he had a different body, a different build, the way he moved, the way

00:39:42.000 he carries, just his length.

00:39:43.860 And then what none of us knew was his ability to, to impact the team.

00:39:50.140 That's the difference between him.

00:39:52.040 For me, he's the greatest of all time.

00:39:54.460 Unquestionably.

00:39:54.620 Greatest of all time.

00:39:55.380 Yeah.

00:39:55.680 Because he could handle Rodman.

00:39:57.500 He could handle, he, some of the Chicago teams, they weren't, they weren't the most

00:40:01.520 talented teams, but he could handle those guys.

00:40:03.580 And all he cared about was winning.

00:40:05.720 That's all he cared about.

00:40:07.480 And he made everybody else on his team better.

00:40:09.920 I think he made Phil Jackson a better coach because he, listen, not my job.

00:40:14.420 Joby Hall said this, and I heard this at a clinic one time, and I believe this. 0.99

00:40:17.280 Look, it's not my job as a coach to make every right decision.

00:40:21.860 I'm going to make the best decisions I possibly can based on my experience.

00:40:25.580 And what I know, and you know what?

00:40:26.860 I'm going to make a lot of good decisions.

00:40:28.240 Yeah.

00:40:28.340 Not every one of them is going to be the best decision, but it is my player's job to make

00:40:32.440 my decisions work.

00:40:33.960 See, when Jordan-

00:40:34.680 They need to break the huddle.

00:40:35.900 Yeah.

00:40:36.160 And make that work.

00:40:37.480 We're going to 1-3-1.

00:40:38.920 Might have been a bad decision.

00:40:40.360 But do it well.

00:40:41.360 Get out there and make that 1-3-1 work in this position.

00:40:43.680 What's going to stop?

00:40:44.680 When Jordan came to the NBA, I was a big Larry Bird fan.

00:40:47.620 And so I used to argue, oh, you know, Jordan's fine, but he's not Bird.

00:40:51.420 And Bird had won three consecutive MVPs.

00:40:53.560 Yeah.

00:40:53.720 You know, he'd shoot these crazy lefty and jump shots. 0.51

00:40:57.320 And it was, Bird was great.

00:40:58.580 He was one of the greatest ever to play.

00:41:00.200 And I'd be like, okay, yeah, Jordan's good.

00:41:02.360 But he's just an offensive player.

00:41:03.440 He's one dimensional.

00:41:04.620 And then he comes back and starts playing incredible defense.

00:41:06.740 And I'd be like, okay, he can drive, but he can't shoot.

00:41:08.560 And he comes back.

00:41:09.300 And I feel like Jordan just like grabbed me by the head and starts slamming me into the

00:41:14.500 ground.

00:41:14.740 And so I'm finally like, I'm making the arguments and I just stop.

00:41:17.360 And I'm like, yeah, no, Jordan's just like, like it, and I am.

00:41:20.740 All right.

00:41:21.440 I defined what, what would have been my ultimate dream basketball game.

00:41:26.380 And it was the following.

00:41:27.780 It was Houston, Chicago.

00:41:30.780 Okay.

00:41:31.360 NBA finals game seven.

00:41:33.460 I'm with you.

00:41:34.400 Jordan scores 101 points and break, breaks Wilts record.

00:41:37.800 And the Rockets win the championship because Scotty Pippen tips the ball in our basket.

00:41:43.480 Because I never was a Pippen fan.

00:41:45.600 That was like my dream game.

00:41:47.800 What did Pippen do to you?

00:41:51.660 Pippen is a great player.

00:41:53.340 I can't wait to hear this answer.

00:41:53.980 Rob's some of his mannerisms and some of his moods.

00:41:57.300 Yeah.

00:41:57.700 He would throw temper tantrums.

00:41:59.900 He didn't have the heart.

00:42:01.680 Look, what Jordan had was a heart the size of a basket.

00:42:05.280 All you guys say is the flu game.

00:42:06.680 The end of a game, you always knew Jordan would get the ball.

00:42:11.620 He'd be triple teamed and it wouldn't matter.

00:42:13.940 He would score.

00:42:14.960 And it just.

00:42:16.320 I'm going to give you one.

00:42:17.400 You know one of the greatest athletes to play the game of basketball?

00:42:19.840 Who's that?

00:42:20.440 Larry Bird.

00:42:22.040 Larry Bird wasn't fast.

00:42:23.480 No, he was not.

00:42:24.080 And Larry Bird didn't jump high.

00:42:25.580 People confuse athleticism.

00:42:28.000 I know a lot of really bad athletes could jump out of the gym.

00:42:30.700 Yeah.

00:42:30.860 They can't catch the ball.

00:42:32.140 They have no balance.

00:42:32.840 They have no sense.

00:42:33.680 Larry Bird had great athleticism.

00:42:38.300 He just wasn't very fast.

00:42:39.160 He didn't jump very high.

00:42:41.040 And sometimes athleticism.

00:42:43.000 There's some great athletes that are golfers or tennis.

00:42:46.640 They may not be as powerful.

00:42:48.920 But the hand-eye coordination and things.

00:42:50.780 I think that's part of being an athlete.

00:42:52.920 Xavier McDonald told a story about covering Bird at the end of a game.

00:42:56.460 And the Celtics were, I think, down a point.

00:42:59.020 And McDonald said that there was a timeout.

00:43:00.760 Like 10, 12 seconds left.

00:43:02.520 And as they're headed to the timeout, Bird said, all right, at the end of the timeout,

00:43:06.460 they're going to pass me the ball.

00:43:07.500 He said, I'm going to dribble to right here.

00:43:08.760 And he points to a spot on the floor.

00:43:10.540 I'm going to shoot from here.

00:43:11.860 I'm going to score.

00:43:12.480 And we're going to win the game.

00:43:13.880 And he said, they walked off the timeout.

00:43:15.240 They came back.

00:43:15.680 They passed the ball to him.

00:43:16.400 He dribbled to that spot.

00:43:17.580 Shot, scored, and won the game.

00:43:19.240 And he said, there's nothing I could do about it.

00:43:20.540 Yep, yep.

00:43:21.160 Bird would do that.

00:43:22.280 He'd tell them right ahead of time. 1.00

00:43:24.980 You talk about a shit talker. 1.00

00:43:26.580 The best. 1.00

00:43:27.960 The best.

00:43:28.800 That was his reputation.

00:43:30.240 Oh, you know, it's true.

00:43:31.380 It was really, really true.

00:43:33.400 It was true. 0.75

00:43:34.380 The mailman told me, Carl Malone, we had dinner together and hung out in Vegas.

00:43:39.580 That'd be the humble brag.

00:43:41.000 Yeah, what I'm saying.

00:43:41.980 Get a call.

00:43:42.760 Yeah.

00:43:43.060 It was a fun day.

00:43:44.100 But he was talking about on the Dream Team.

00:43:46.160 And he said that the best part about that was watching the greats talk trash in each other's face, calling shots with the young guys.

00:43:56.620 Remember the game where the coaches left?

00:43:58.080 Are you old enough to remember, Bruce is, and I am, I don't know if you are, the McDonald's commercial with Bird and Jordan.

00:44:04.120 Yes, I do remember.

00:44:04.860 I've seen it.

00:44:05.240 Where they're doing these crazy shots.

00:44:07.160 It's like, you know, off the rafter, on the back, you know, nothing but net.

00:44:12.400 And it's one of the great, for those of y'all, because we have a lot of young listeners, go Google, like, Bird, Jordan, McDonald's commercial classics.

00:44:21.080 All right, go ahead.

00:44:21.460 But no, he said the best part about that game when the coaches left the room and it was like they were calling shots in each other's face and there was a lot of betting going on.

00:44:28.260 As he said, seeing Charles Barkley trash talk with Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, you look at that roster of the guys that were there trash talking.

00:44:37.620 And he said it was the ultimate level of trash talking because there was no audience. 0.91

00:44:41.560 So it was just in your face. 0.95

00:44:43.500 You weren't worried about anyone recording you.

00:44:45.300 There wasn't cell phones in.

00:44:46.420 It was just pure.

00:44:47.760 He said it was the most players ever had playing a pickup game because you're playing a pickup game with the best players in the world.

00:44:53.040 And that had to be pretty fun.

00:44:54.200 And he was a part of it.

00:44:54.960 So we got another topic that you care deeply about, which is Israel.

00:44:58.220 So tell us a little bit about, number one, why does Israel matter to you?

00:45:06.940 I think because I was in sports and because I was, you know, obviously in college basketball.

00:45:14.380 Again, we're old enough to have seen an educational system growing up.

00:45:19.860 Let's take the state of Indiana, Illinois, different states where you've got inner cities and you've got rural America.

00:45:24.960 Within the same cities, you'd see schools that look like college campuses.

00:45:28.940 And just a few miles down the road, they look like prisons.

00:45:32.500 Yeah.

00:45:32.600 Like there's more security and more gun, you know, used to go to the screens to get through to school.

00:45:38.560 And this was our educational system.

00:45:41.060 And I was like, man, this is wrong.

00:45:42.240 Like these kids have way more of an advantage.

00:45:46.980 And I just – I felt like there was sort of some of the things that Dr. King talked about.

00:45:54.320 Silence is complicity.

00:45:55.520 Yep.

00:45:56.060 Yes.

00:45:56.260 Like just silence.

00:45:58.400 My Hebrew name is Mordecai.

00:46:00.260 Mordecai in the story of Purim and Esther. 0.77

00:46:05.400 You know, Haman was going to kill all the Jews in Persia. 0.97

00:46:08.520 Yep. 0.99

00:46:08.840 Yeah.

00:46:09.220 And Mordecai, Esther's uncle, said, look, if you don't get to the king, Haman's actually going to – this is going to be the Holocaust.

00:46:18.160 And so he spoke into her.

00:46:20.940 And so my grandfather told me that he named me Mordecai because he wanted me to be somebody that would protect and stand up for the weaker.

00:46:31.000 And so whether it be in school, if you want to try to pick on a kid, you kind of had to go through me.

00:46:34.760 That's sort of who I was.

00:46:37.200 So I was always wanting to –

00:46:38.520 You were a protector, which meant you were the perfect coach.

00:46:40.520 Correct.

00:46:41.800 That's as it worked out.

00:46:43.700 American Jewry should be this country's greatest patriots.

00:46:46.700 Jews in America should be this country's greatest patriots because where else in the history of the world have the Jewish people had an opportunity to work hard, own land, own business, do things, but in this incredible democracy, the United States of America?

00:47:02.320 Nowhere else except maybe Israel right now. 0.91

00:47:05.480 Jews should be this country's greatest patriots.

00:47:07.260 So I – this country saved my grandfather's life.

00:47:10.440 He came from Turnipol in 1929 when he was 11 years old.

00:47:13.700 He was the oldest of three younger siblings.

00:47:16.700 He brought my Auntie Shirley, my Uncle – my Uncle Harold was an infant, and my Auntie Claire.

00:47:21.120 And he told me this country saved our family's life.

00:47:24.260 Wow.

00:47:25.360 And so –

00:47:26.280 And where did they go to?

00:47:27.680 Went to Boston.

00:47:28.680 Boston.

00:47:28.860 Went to the Boston area, went with some family, and much of his family couldn't make the trip, didn't make the trip, died in the Holocaust. 0.66

00:47:35.360 Wow.

00:47:35.580 And so he loved Israel because he had told me that if Israel had been a state way back then in 1929, even though it was Zionism, even the Jews were returning to the ancestral home run, America was the dream. 0.64

00:47:47.640 Right.

00:47:47.760 But it was more expensive to come to America.

00:47:49.060 That maybe if Israel was a state back in 29 and they'd have gone to Israel and more of his family, more of my cousins and my aunts and uncles would have survived the Holocaust. 0.65

00:47:59.360 And so those things kind of obviously, you know, sort of, you know, stuck with me.

00:48:03.740 And now look at where we are today.

00:48:06.700 You know, one of the things, Senator, when people want to have some debate about Israel or who our ally is or how much money we're going to say, I love when I speak about raising someone else, say, for the Boys and Girls Club.

00:48:19.720 Yeah.

00:48:19.880 Let's pretend the Boys and Girls Club didn't exist.

00:48:22.100 It's not here.

00:48:22.580 It hasn't been for 80 years.

00:48:23.580 It hasn't been here.

00:48:24.560 How would the boys and girls in this community think of the impact it had?

00:48:28.700 Incredible.

00:48:29.000 Let's go back to 1948.

00:48:30.780 Let's say the Jews lost. 0.84

00:48:32.180 Let's say they were defeated.

00:48:33.440 Yeah.

00:48:33.740 Let's say the Arabs won in 48.

00:48:35.960 Yeah.

00:48:36.240 Which, by the way, what would the Middle East look like right now?

00:48:38.880 Totally different than now.

00:48:40.020 You know, and it is extraordinary.

00:48:43.300 Look, Israel is surrounded by nations that would drive it into the sea. 0.95

00:48:46.800 And the only reason Israel exists is because it has beaten them over and over and over again in war after war after war, in many instances against all odds. 0.96

00:49:00.200 You know, I'm reminded of – this is kind of a silly analogy, but it's one that resonates with me at least.

00:49:06.600 When I was a kid, there was a book series I read called The Great Brain.

00:49:09.720 I don't know if you ever read it.

00:49:10.500 It's a seven-book series about a kid growing up in Utah who's a swindler.

00:49:17.280 There are three brothers, Swen D. Fitzgerald, Tom D. Fitzgerald, and John D. Fitzgerald.

00:49:22.500 And the book is written by John D. Fitzgerald.

00:49:24.060 And his middle brother, Tom, is a con artist.

00:49:26.440 And it's sort of like a Tom Sawyer sort of thing, but he has all these different cons.

00:49:30.480 And they're growing up about 1900 in Utah.

00:49:39.000 And he says, you know, most of the kids there are Mormon.

00:49:42.200 And he says, we weren't Mormon.

00:49:45.000 And he said, but the Mormons are very tolerant.

00:49:48.840 And he said it was a very simple matter of Swen D. learning to whip all the kids his age and Tom D. learning to whip all the kids his age and me learning to whip all the kids my age.

00:49:56.760 And he has a line, it's amazing how tolerant kids can be when you can whip them.

00:50:00.500 That's right.

00:50:01.020 And I remember that line.

00:50:02.060 It was probably 10 when I read it.

00:50:03.440 And that phrase, it's amazing how tolerant people can be when you can whip them.

00:50:07.740 Yeah.

00:50:08.320 And I think of that with Israel.

00:50:09.900 Yeah.

00:50:10.420 Like you look at the Abraham Accords. 0.96

00:50:13.500 You look at peace that broke out, I think, under President Trump's leadership.

00:50:16.820 None of that happens except for the fact that Israel can whip them. 0.91

00:50:21.600 And they've demonstrated it over and over again as recently as this past year in the 12-day war.

00:50:27.220 And by the way, as the three of us are talking, there are millions of people on the streets of Iran risking their lives.

00:50:33.920 And you look at women that are standing up there and men, they are literally – far too many are being slaughtered.

00:50:40.520 The others, if the revolution doesn't succeed, they can anticipate being rounded up, tortured, murdered.

00:50:48.620 And in many ways, I think this is the consequence of losing a war that sometimes in today's political world, we think everything is a comms matter.

00:51:00.540 It's all about communications and messaging.

00:51:02.540 No, there was a 12-day war and Iran lost.

00:51:05.140 And if you are the Ayatollah Khamenei, you are an Islamist dictator, your staying in power is predicated on convincing your citizenry you are omnipotent. 0.91

00:51:19.740 You are unbeatable.

00:51:20.620 There is no hope in rising up because I cannot be beaten.

00:51:24.280 And if there's anything worse for an Islamist dictator than losing a war, it's losing to Israel. 0.88

00:51:29.860 Yeah.

00:51:30.240 And they didn't just sort of lose.

00:51:32.180 They didn't just slightly lose. 1.00

00:51:33.400 They got their ass kicked. 1.00

00:51:34.040 They got their ass kicked. 1.00

00:51:35.840 And showed them as being weak. 1.00

00:51:37.140 And we said on this podcast in the wake of this, I said, I believe the regime will fall because they've been shown to be a paper tiger. 0.92

00:51:46.520 And look, my prayers are – I can think of nothing that would make the Middle East safer, that would make America safer than having that theocratic lunatic who chants death to America no longer in charge.

00:52:00.920 What are your thoughts and reactions?

00:52:04.560 I just agree with you completely.

00:52:06.680 It's about peace through strength.

00:52:08.900 Sometimes that guy, that tough guy, he doesn't actually have to fight.

00:52:13.080 Yeah.

00:52:13.220 Because – and so our greatest deterrent with China and Russia is our own strength. 0.92

00:52:20.780 They're not going to –

00:52:21.240 It's the best way to avoid a war.

00:52:22.380 It's the best way to avoid a war, which is good for everybody.

00:52:25.300 Yes.

00:52:25.540 And so I look at the countries in the Middle East.

00:52:29.300 I think the UAE figured this out first before anybody else.

00:52:33.260 Yep.

00:52:33.400 And you know what?

00:52:35.020 We're better off being in some sort of a normal relationship with Israel. 0.99

00:52:39.760 Yeah.

00:52:40.000 They're strong militarily.

00:52:41.900 They're ethical.

00:52:43.480 They're technologically advanced.

00:52:45.380 They want to have a positive relationship.

00:52:47.940 And by the way, before the end of the Trump presidency, Saudi Arabia will enter the Abraham Accords.

00:52:52.720 I think they were ready to do so.

00:52:55.320 If Trump had served a second term consecutively, they would have done so during his second term.

00:52:59.360 I think they're going to now.

00:53:00.300 Let me ask – because we're going to wrap up soon.

00:53:02.500 But let me ask – you and I have talked a lot about rising anti-Semitism in America.

00:53:08.440 And you've been very vocal and outspoken.

00:53:10.380 You've shown a lot of courage on that topic.

00:53:11.900 But just – why do you think it's happening?

00:53:17.100 And how does it impact you?

00:53:19.180 What are your reactions to what's happening in this country right now?

00:53:24.400 I would like to try to – while it's on the rise.

00:53:28.320 There were three Jewish basketball coaches that were in the Final Four this past year.

00:53:34.540 This is the greatest country in the world.

00:53:36.460 That's pretty cool.

00:53:37.380 Wow.

00:53:37.660 In other words, I want to tell my players, look – and this is what always bothered me about President Obama,

00:53:42.020 who in so many ways I admired as an incredible orator and just – I was so proud of our country

00:53:47.600 for electing a black man to be our president twice.

00:53:50.900 I just – I'm sorry.

00:53:51.620 I'm a basketball coach.

00:53:52.700 I've seen – and I was proud of our country.

00:53:55.440 There's a historic aspect of it.

00:53:56.940 It's incredible.

00:53:57.360 Because for a century, African-Americans were slaves.

00:54:00.360 Correct.

00:54:00.420 And so it is – you mentioned Dr. King.

00:54:03.880 As Ben knows, I have three busts in my office.

00:54:06.420 I have Ronald Reagan.

00:54:07.280 I have Winston Churchill.

00:54:08.080 And I have Dr. King.

00:54:09.280 And so I agree with Dr. King that the arc of justice is long, but it – the arc of history

00:54:16.040 is long, but it bends towards justice.

00:54:17.380 Yes.

00:54:17.660 And I think that is playing out.

00:54:19.740 So I'm just grateful.

00:54:22.040 I recognize the anti-Semitism.

00:54:23.720 I recognize my players get profiled driving while black in certain things or certain challenges.

00:54:29.580 I reckon – but I don't want them to use that as an excuse for failure.

00:54:34.260 I don't want – and so, yes, there's theology that sometimes wants to divide us.

00:54:42.820 Sure. 0.93

00:54:43.540 You could either look at the Jews and say, well, you all killed Christ. 0.99

00:54:48.200 You all killed our God. 1.00

00:54:49.620 Okay. 0.99

00:54:49.960 Well, was it not God's plan to send his son die so that you would be brought into covenant

00:54:57.980 with him?

00:54:58.420 Was that his plan?

00:54:59.260 Does it really matter who killed?

00:55:00.780 For me, I look at it and say, wait a second.

00:55:03.720 Like, Jesus was Jewish his whole life. 0.97

00:55:06.500 My wife's two favorite Jews in Alabama are me and Jesus.

00:55:10.000 Me and Jesus.

00:55:11.580 And so for me, that unites me with my Christian brothers.

00:55:15.020 Yeah.

00:55:15.200 Twelve Jewish men died horrific deaths bringing Christianity to this world. 1.00

00:55:21.500 Absolutely.

00:55:21.780 And so for me, I say – I don't want – I don't – nobody say thank you, but we – there

00:55:29.180 are so many Christians that are standing with us, Senator, as you know.

00:55:32.820 And so while we can talk about the rise in anti-Semitism, we've got to protect us from

00:55:37.080 those that want to kill us.

00:55:38.180 Anti-Semitism is not going anywhere.

00:55:40.500 It's not.

00:55:42.020 There's going to be the haves and the have-nots.

00:55:45.600 Is there a disproportionate number of American Jews that have wealth in this country compared

00:55:51.200 to the population?

00:55:52.020 The answer is yes.

00:55:53.440 Go back 80 years ago and see what those numbers were.

00:55:56.180 They turned the boats around from Europe because we came over here poor and uneducated.

00:56:01.220 Yeah.

00:56:01.740 And we just took advantage of the American dream.

00:56:04.720 And we should not apologize for the fact that we've worked so hard and be grateful for

00:56:09.540 the opportunity.

00:56:10.160 So I kind of turn that around a little bit.

00:56:12.200 Okay, I get it.

00:56:13.040 It's on the rise, but you can still be anything you want to be in this country.

00:56:16.540 Well, and I'll say two things.

00:56:18.000 We'll wrap up on this.

00:56:19.000 One, one of the things I admire most about the Jewish people in the United States and

00:56:25.020 more broadly is the incredible success they've achieved.

00:56:28.200 And you're right that virtually all of them in the United States at least started with nothing.

00:56:34.240 And you look at, in Judaism, the culture of hard work and discipline and family and education

00:56:40.540 and that has led to extraordinary financial success, extraordinary.

00:56:45.500 The number of Nobel Prizes won by Israel, won by Jews in America is extraordinary.

00:56:53.540 And I actually view it sort of in the intellectual and the free enterprise capitalist world, sort

00:56:58.880 of like the principle I said before about it's amazing how tolerant people can be when you

00:57:02.320 can whip them.

00:57:02.780 Like, that's great success and I think all of us should emulate the attributes of discipline

00:57:11.240 and excellence that lead to that success.

00:57:14.500 A second point, I didn't know what you were going to say when I asked about anti-Semitism,

00:57:18.860 but I started chuckling because the week before Christmas, and Ben will remember this,

00:57:24.480 I sent out a tweet and I said two thoughts to drive the anti-Semites crazy.

00:57:29.000 In this Christmas season, number one, our Savior Jesus was Jewish in the line of David.

00:57:37.360 And number two, Jews didn't kill Jesus.

00:57:41.200 I did.

00:57:42.740 You did.

00:57:44.020 He died for our sins.

00:57:45.680 That's what the New Testament said.

00:57:47.400 That's right.

00:57:48.680 Is that he willingly took the cross to die for our sins.

00:57:53.000 And so the sort of anti-Semites who say Jews killed Jesus, well actually, it was Romans

00:57:57.980 who drove the nails in.

00:57:59.200 Is anyone mad at the Italians? 1.00

00:58:00.720 Like, that's just stupid. 1.00

00:58:02.160 It's bad theology. 1.00

00:58:04.660 It's bigotry.

00:58:06.700 And I will admit I was kind of happy with that tweet because it really did drive the anti-Semites

00:58:10.040 crazy.

00:58:10.480 It made them very angry.

00:58:11.600 One of the biggest things, Chris, and I know we've got to wrap up.

00:58:14.920 Young Christians today, the podcasters, the people that are preaching this replacement 0.98

00:58:22.120 theology, utter garbage, the love of country and the love of Christ only, you're driving 0.98

00:58:28.640 those two things hard at young people. 0.99

00:58:31.540 And my point would be this.

00:58:34.060 God does not break covenant.

00:58:35.880 He's not going to break covenant with the Christians.

00:58:37.780 He did not break covenant with the Jews.

00:58:39.640 He just doesn't go against what he says he will do.

00:58:42.360 Amen.

00:58:43.000 God is not a liar.

00:58:44.160 He's not a liar.

00:58:44.980 And so the people that want to believe that, well, Jews, you didn't accept Jesus as Messiah,

00:58:49.180 look, we'll figure it out when we get there.

00:58:51.260 But for the grace of God, okay, but for his grace, who knows, you know, exactly what is

00:58:56.960 going to happen.

00:58:57.540 So I'm confident as a coach, I'm always trying to bring people together and bring teams together

00:59:03.880 so I can see all the things that separate us.

00:59:05.900 But instead, I look to the things that unite us and it's amazing the things that we can do

00:59:09.620 together.

00:59:10.040 If you think of your life's greatest accomplishments, you accomplish it with the people that you

00:59:15.520 care the most about.

00:59:16.740 No doubt.

00:59:17.060 And that's who the Jewish people are.

00:59:19.040 And I would hope that if you needed something, there's a hospital someplace in Dallas that's

00:59:26.380 going under, but for a gift from somebody.

00:59:30.320 Yep.

00:59:30.940 There'd be somebody that you might call that might be Jewish, knowing that there are people

00:59:34.740 that are willing to give and willing to share.

00:59:37.100 And we just got to keep it.

00:59:38.060 I told my Jewish people, look, we got to, you know, I don't know why God said we're

00:59:41.560 the chosen people, because my grandma said, the chosen people.

00:59:44.320 Maybe you should have chosen somebody else.

00:59:46.100 It's not so easy.

00:59:47.160 It's not so easy.

00:59:48.020 But there's a responsibility.

00:59:50.320 There's a responsibility to being a Christian.

00:59:51.840 There's a responsibility to a Jew. 1.00

00:59:53.220 I got to walk it every single day and I'm okay with it.

00:59:55.620 I'm okay.

00:59:56.100 I'm going to do the best I possibly can.

00:59:57.860 All right.

00:59:58.200 Final question on a lighter note.

01:00:00.160 I'm going to loop back to sports.

01:00:02.640 Got the national championship football game coming up.

01:00:05.100 Who are you picking?

01:00:05.560 Who's going to win and what's the final score going to be?

01:00:08.060 Well, I'm going to go with Indiana.

01:00:09.760 I like that one.

01:00:10.280 I'm going to go with the Hoosiers.

01:00:11.420 Indiana looks so good.

01:00:12.480 I'm going to go with the Hoosiers.

01:00:13.620 I coached in Evansville, Indiana for nine years.

01:00:16.780 It's just an amazing story.

01:00:19.940 I like Cristobal a lot, though.

01:00:21.740 I like what he's done for Miami.

01:00:23.320 I got more friends in Miami than I do in Indiana.

01:00:26.540 But I'm going with the Hoosiers.

01:00:26.940 You may have a few less after you just made your pick, you know.

01:00:29.400 Yeah.

01:00:30.100 28-24 Indiana.

01:00:31.640 28-24.

01:00:32.400 So close game.

01:00:33.640 I think it'll be a close game.

01:00:34.380 All right.

01:00:34.700 Okay.

01:00:34.800 I'm going 38-10.

01:00:37.400 Wow.

01:00:38.100 Yeah, I think it's going to be a blowout.

01:00:39.240 Wow.

01:00:39.720 I think Miami's just going to get smoked.

01:00:41.940 By the way, I want to make a request to all our verdict listeners.

01:00:46.760 So I had a wager yesterday on the Texans-Steelers game.

01:00:51.760 Yeah.

01:00:51.980 I had a wager with John Fetterman and Dave McCormick.

01:00:57.840 I proposed the wager.

01:00:59.400 I proposed – and this is a sports wager I make with some frequency, which is the loser presents – like what I offered up was Texas barbecue, Blue Bell ice cream, and Shiner Bock beer, and you present it in the winner's jersey.

01:01:12.740 Yeah.

01:01:13.920 And Fetterman – and Dave's a really good friend, and John's become a good friend.

01:01:17.420 Fetterman wanted to ratchet it up.

01:01:19.420 What did he say?

01:01:19.960 So he said, no, no, no.

01:01:20.660 I want worse.

01:01:21.560 He said, when you lose –

01:01:24.440 I like it.

01:01:26.180 He's a confident betting man right there.

01:01:27.940 He said, you will walk onto the Senate floor, and he went and bought, wearing a Steelers beanie, and this giant piece of bling that says Steelers that's, I don't know, about 10 inches wide, this giant gold chain.

01:01:42.940 Walk onto the Senate floor and cast a vote.

01:01:45.040 Yeah, you can bring the barbecue and stuff if you've got to walk on.

01:01:46.840 Yeah.

01:01:47.320 And he tweeted out a picture of the horrible beanie and the Steelers bling.

01:01:52.320 And so I will say we won 30 to 6.

01:01:56.280 Yes, it was a beat down.

01:01:57.120 It was – and by the way, I grew up as a Houston fan.

01:02:00.860 There's no team on earth like the Steelers that caused Houston fans to twitch because in the 70s we had the greatest team we ever had.

01:02:08.580 The Oilers, we had Earl Campbell, and we ran in to one of the greatest teams to ever play.

01:02:14.340 And the 79 and 80 ASC championships were crushing.

01:02:18.920 And so last night was revenge.

01:02:21.940 So does he have to wear like a Houston beanie?

01:02:24.280 So my question – and this is actually a request to all our social media followers.

01:02:29.400 Your vote matters, folks.

01:02:30.820 Post on X.

01:02:34.580 What horribly tacky Texans bling do we have? 1.00

01:02:39.260 I should make Fetterman and McCormick wear.

01:02:41.800 They've already said they're going to wear it.

01:02:43.920 But given what they picked –

01:02:44.420 I want McCormick to look like a rapper. 0.98

01:02:46.300 I just want him to look like a rapper going to cast that vote because he's kind of – you know, he can get free for it.

01:02:50.700 Given what they picked, it's got to be a little over the top.

01:02:55.460 I'd make Fetterman wear a suit because putting him in a hoodie –

01:02:58.300 Put him in a suit with a hoodie and a chain.

01:03:00.420 Something different.

01:03:01.340 Like Meghan Tie Tie.

01:03:02.400 We gave them both grief today and they both said, yep, we'll wear it.

01:03:05.160 We'll wear it.

01:03:07.100 Pennsylvania will honor it.

01:03:08.800 I like it.

01:03:09.420 And so I'm looking forward to collecting on this one.

01:03:11.920 We need more senators like John Fetterman. 0.97

01:03:14.660 We need more Americans like John Fetterman.

01:03:15.940 He's been – he's courageous.

01:03:17.680 Yes, he is.

01:03:18.400 And –

01:03:19.120 Biggest surprise in the Senate in the last –

01:03:20.220 And much of his party hates him for it.

01:03:22.700 Yeah.

01:03:23.320 They do.

01:03:23.920 Thanks for coming on.

01:03:24.680 Bruce Pearl.

01:03:25.040 So good to be with you guys.

01:03:26.160 Thank you.

01:03:26.380 It was fun.

01:03:26.900 Don't forget, you can grab the show Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

01:03:29.260 Hit the subscribe auto download button as well.

01:03:31.620 And on YouTube, you can watch this video as well if you're there, if you want to watch it on Facebook.

01:03:36.480 And the Senate and I will see you back here in a couple of days.

01:03:39.400 This is an iHeart Podcast.

01:03:42.200 Guaranteed Human.

Verdict with Ted Cruz - January 14, 2026

Legendary Coach Bruce Pearl One-on-One： Hoops, NIL & Anti-Semitism in America

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