Legendary Coach Bruce Pearl One-on-One： Hoops, NIL & Anti-Semitism in America
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 3 minutes
Words per minute
206.03223
Harmful content
Misogyny
16
sentences flagged
Hate speech
29
sentences flagged
Summary
Ted Cruz is joined by the former head basketball coach of the University of Florida, Bruce Pearl. They talk about his career, his new job as an ambassador for the Auburn Tigers, and his new year s resolutions for 2020.
Transcript
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Welcome, it is Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you,
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and we've got a fun show for you coming from Washington, D.C.
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We're all in the same place, Senator, and we have a friend of the show,
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a friend of yours, a guest to talk about two different things.
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My favorite sports, your favorite politics, and we can talk about Israel.
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We are joined today by the great legendary basketball coach, Bruce Pearl,
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He was a national champion, won in Division II, the national championship with Auburn.
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He went not once but twice to the Final Four, including a year ago a heartbreaker
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I know that's, you know, to quote my favorite movie, The Princess Bride,
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why don't you give me a nice paper cut and put lemon juice in it while you're at it?
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But then, and then Florida went on to win a national championship, beating Houston,
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He recently retired and is now ambassador for Auburn, is now doing sports broadcasting.
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He is also someone who cares passionately about Israel, passionately about America,
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passionately about sports, passionately about life.
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God, Senator Cruz, that's a lot to love up to right there.
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In 15 years, she'll be a nurse bringing health care to her village.
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Right now, she's eight and she just needs someone to believe she can get there.
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Someone to tell her she's capable of extraordinary things.
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He'll design clean water systems for his community.
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Today, he's learning multiplication and dreaming big.
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She'll become the first in her family to graduate university.
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She'll teach dozens of children who remind her of herself.
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But right now, at age 10, she's at a crossroads.
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And your support could be what tips the balance through Compassion International.
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The parents who will change their family's story forever.
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I want to just start with retirement because it doesn't sound like you're retiring at all.
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And this is what your retirement is going to look like.
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There's no way you're ever going to retire, Senator.
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And by the way, ask my father, who's 86, about to turn 87.
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And he will argue retirement is not a biblical concept.
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And he will lay out there's no concept of retirement anywhere in the Old or New Testament.
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We are here on this planet to make a difference.
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And retirement is not something he will never retire.
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My management style is I put 20 pounds of potatoes in a 10-pound bag every single day.
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My objective is to be at $2.06 January of next year.
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So if you can imagine George Foreman with a racket.
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And I went and he scared the living snot out of me.
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That's what, yeah, Mike, I don't want to have a heart attack or a stroke.
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We're also going to talk NIL and college sports.
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So I was reading your bio and I discovered a fact I didn't know.
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Which is, I believe, you are the only Division I basketball coach who didn't play basketball.
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So I'm 15 years old and I'm the best athlete in town.
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One of our very first podcasts we ever did down in a basement.
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This is years ago during the first Trump impeachment trial.
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The very first guest on this podcast was Lindsey Graham.
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And Lindsey, who's a dear friend, Lindsey goes, what in the hell is a podcast?
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And he also, at one point, he said, that's bullshit.
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Heavy Lindsey Graham and John Kennedy and Bruce Pearl.
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So I just, I was defined by my ability to dominate you in everything.
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Football, did you get tackled or what happened?
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And I didn't have a great recovery, whatever it was.
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And I honestly believed that it was God's plan to say, no, this is not the person that
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And I learned that the band kids were the coolest kids on campus.
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The same kids that I maybe used to make fun of.
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I'm not sure I'd say the coolest kids on campus.
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How did I not use this against you for the last X number of years?
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This is going to be my favorite podcast we've ever done.
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And look, Ben played Division I sports at Ole Miss.
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You can say it's the most successful we've ever been at Ole Miss.
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By the way, the curse of my high school acting career is I cannot carry a tune to save my life.
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All I'm thinking right now is did I read the cliff notes of this?
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The head of the music program there said, okay, we really want you to play Fagan, which
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And he said, we want you to play Fagan if you can sing it.
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So I actually hired a voice coach for the entire summer to practice.
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The good thing is Fagan's songs are more spoken than songs.
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So I'd worked on a Fagan song and I could do it.
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And he sat at the piano and he plays dun, dun, dun, dun.
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So I cast as Bill Sykes, which is the second male lead.
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In high school, you create a non-singing role for people like me.
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By the way, I recently, talking about the villain, I recently, my 15-year-old daughter,
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Catherine, her friend, was asking for a good movie to watch.
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And so I recommended Coming to America, which I'd never seen.
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And it starts off early on with James Earl Jones.
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And so, you know, I was asking them, like, what famous voice did James Earl Jones play?
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And it tells you something that three 15-year-old had no idea.
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Who was, of course, voted the number one villain of the past century in movies.
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And none of the 15-year-olds recognized Darth Vader's voice.
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I walked on the basketball team, got cut, because I was still not a good enough athlete to be
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But the head coach, Dr. Tom Davis, kind of saw something in me and my intensity and whatever.
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I had a varsity baseball career at Sharon High School, but couldn't play basketball.
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I was, actually, at that point, I had to be a first baseman, because I was limited in
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We won the league championship, and I had a good run.
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But the point was, I couldn't play basketball at Boston College, but I worked for the program.
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I was doing all these different things just for poops and giggles.
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I was going to leave college and going to go to Israel and join the Army for a couple
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But he got the Stanford job my senior year, and all of a sudden, he calls me.
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The only time he ever called me to his house was when the dean of students caught me streaking
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across campus, and they were going to throw me out of school.
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And I was the only Jew on campus, so I was circumcised.
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That's not the terrible admission, although some would say it is.
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So for 100 years, Princeton had a tradition that was called the Nude Olympics, and it occurred
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on the night of the first snowfall of the year that sophomores would strip down.
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Run through, you know, as they say at Seinfeld, shrinkage.
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But, and you would run through the campus, and you'd do jumping jacks and events, and
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So you gave the peer pressure is what you're telling me.
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I am confident there's no photographic evidence, but I did keep on my boots and a scarf.
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So bottom line, no matter what you're doing, make yourself valuable.
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So when Tom Davis left Boston College to go to Stanford, he asked this 21-year-old manager
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Because when it came down, well, who's doing this, or who's doing that?
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So no matter where you are, people want to know how to be successful, what's your next
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And either God's going to have a plan for you, or just going to put yourself in a position
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So my whole deal was always I made people better around me.
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I recognized that there were four other guys out there on the court, and they needed to
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And so my ability to encourage them, challenge them, know when to give them some support,
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but also hold them accountable, whatever it was.
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Look, it's one thing when you're Bruce Carroll.
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I'm like, people can't, but look, you're a 21, 22-year-old assistant coach at Stanford.
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You're playing with players who can shoot lights out.
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Some of the kids on the team were older than I was when I was an assistant coach.
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And you know, they can fly through the air and dunk.
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They can do things that you, how did you get the credibility when you're just starting
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for them to listen and say, okay, I want to listen to what this guy has to say?
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You'd think that while I was rebounding for them, I'd say something about their shot.
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How about just be there for an hour and not say a word?
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And then get them to go there the next day and the next day.
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And when I got comfortable enough, I said the same things.
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So all I was doing was reinforcing his messages.
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And so when I left Dr. Tom Davis, after some 14 years as his assistant, he gave me two pieces
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He said, look, that way you don't have to fake it.
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Teach what, like, sometimes coaches, they want to beg, borrow, and steal from it.
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Well, when I get to be a coach, I'm going to do this.
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It's not so much what you do, but it's how you do it, how you can teach it.
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Gary Williams, who was at Maryland, was also under Dr. Tom Davis.
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Sometimes you sometimes get confused and thinking great coaches are coaches that are,
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To get the most out of your players, you've got to empower them a little bit.
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My job was to see something in them they didn't see in themselves.
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So one of the things I tell people is have a dimension in an organization.
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Somebody that's good at everything, but I'd rather have somebody that's great at this
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I'll hide what they can't do, but give me this.
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And that's what I think made me – one of the things that made me a good coach.
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So over your career, how many games have you won?
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What's the difference between a bad coach, a good coach, and a great coach?
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So Pat Dye, the legendary football coach, said you can coach them as hard as you love them.
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And one of the challenges right now in college sports is the transfer portal
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I need to be one they call me when they've got to break it up with a girl
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We go through some stuff and be there when they're not successful,
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And then all of a sudden they become something.
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And you were there when you believed when nobody else did.
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He said the great coaches are the ones that are the great offensive coaches
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that can create offense to get guys really good shots and really good looks.
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But the brilliant coaches are the ones that understand offense.
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You know he's a basketball – like he's obsessed.
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And you know there's two amazing basketball courts within a driver from where we are.
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I was there today for the – like the Supreme Court has – they have a basketball court
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So the Supreme Court court is above the courtroom.
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So the floor of the court is the roof of the courtroom.
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You cannot play during oral arguments because you'll hear the balls bounce.
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And it's a weird court because the roof is kind of low.
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So you have to develop this weird-ass jump shot that's almost like a line.
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So the folks that are regulars there have a very strange jump shot.
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Let's say – so we have a lot of young people that listen to this show.
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He's a high school athlete and wants to make it in college, basketball, football, whatever sport.
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What's the key for a kid with some skill but doesn't know if he can make it?
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What does a kid want to do to actually have a shot at playing in college?
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Well, back in the day, we used to play football, basketball, and baseball.
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I'm sure as a tennis player, you play all the sports, right?
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And so kids are beginning to sort of maybe cut it down to one or two.
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Actually, when your kids are six or seven, they're telling you to specialize.
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Obviously, the things that they're, you know, nutrition now is a factor.
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The kids are doing a better job taking care of the body.
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Our kids now are way more physically mature than they were back in the day.
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So they're getting more disciplined and they're working out more.
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And, I mean, again, I kind of go back to advice.
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You know, do something really well that a coach can obviously, you know, can use.
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I mean, that's what you're saying is important for you to stand out when you're getting recruited.
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No, I was known as being slow, having a massive serve, and having an unbelievable ad court return.
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Like, there's just, you're going to continue to get, send it back, send it back, send it back, and wear him out.
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I mean, it was, he's going to serve through you and he's going to, and he will always have you in doubles and you'll win more points.
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I mean, for me, tough, obviously toughness, mental and physical toughness wind up winning.
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At the end of the day, a physically and a mentally tough guy is going to win.
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And the big dog may not be the biggest dog out there, but he's a badass.
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And so it's something, toughness isn't something that you can really teach, but you sure can expose it.
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I think, I think guys that have incredible eyes that are able to focus on that target and hit the target.
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Nutrition I wouldn't have predicted and the eye.
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Like mentally, like if you were, as a tennis player, you had to actually see and mentally see that serve when you toss it up there and hit it through.
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Great baseball players can see that ball coming in over there.
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Remember they say Ted Williams could see the seams on the curveball like he had just crazy good.
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My coach said to me, he goes, there will be a time in your life when you will be able to have a serve hit at you and you'll be able to tell me the number and who makes the ball.
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And it happened for me for three days and I never got it back.
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But you could hit ball as hard as you want to serve 115, 120 miles an hour.
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And I could tell you it was a Wilson, he was hoping three or a pin four.
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And I don't know what happens in your brain, but it's the same thing with it.
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And that he was like the guys that are the greats could see that the majority of the time.
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Look, and I got to tell you, if you play me ping pong and you hit the ball at me, I can tell you what color the ball is.
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Well, first of all, the NCAA was arrogant and not recognizing that they were sitting on our country's
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And the fact that they wanted to fight for amateurism when it wasn't realistic, when everybody
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I was a big believer, obviously, Scott College Scholarships and what that industry did for
00:22:52.740
Those rural Americans that never dreamed of going to college, all of a sudden, they
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had the opportunity through something that they maybe were good at in sports, got them
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And inner city kids, lots of kids that couldn't afford it, that had no history of family going
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All of a sudden, because academics may not have been something they were good at.
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Nobody likes to do anything they're not good at, but they like sports.
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Then they went to college and they got caught up and figured out they weren't dumb.
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There weren't as many women on college campuses back in the day.
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University intercollegiate athletics is American.
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There's no other place in the world that does what we do.
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So we've got a unique system that right now needs fixing because it's a disaster.
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The product that we're putting out is really, really good.
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But the problem is what we're paying our top student athletes because everybody wants
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Back in the day, 10 years ago, you couldn't give them a hamburger.
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Literally, the top college football programs that are competing right now, their rosters
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are between $35 and $40 million for that roster right now.
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But the schools that are playing right now and still playing right now are there.
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All of a sudden, Mark Cuban, the people at Indiana said, you know what?
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Now, the challenge is, are you going to do it every year?
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You've got to raise $20 million for an election, $30 million, whatever it is.
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My last race was a quarter billion dollar race.
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If you had a campaign every year and you had to raise that money every year, that's
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College sports is losing an enormous amount of money.
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At some point, Olympic sports are going to get cut.
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If we don't do something, I think we're going to wake up soon.
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And the top programs will survive and have all the money.
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And I think everyone else goes under unless we do so.
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00:25:46.900
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00:26:09.840
This subject makes me mad because I'm mad at the NCAA for allowing us to get to this point.
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I watched the corruption when I was at Ole Miss.
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Roommate of mine had to go get money in cash so mom could come to the game.
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Grew up in Arkansas, literally grew up in a trailer.
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And it was, what does mom need to get you to come to school here?
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I like to say SMU was doing NIL before it was called.
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And that's the part that makes me angry now is like they've created this chaos.
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Well, they created it by not policing it and figuring it out sooner.
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And I say this as an athlete, like a modern day slave.
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It really makes me mad because I see these kids that are suffering.
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The parents that just want to show up for the game.
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Then they're having to do shady deals where mom gets cash so she can drive to the game.
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But they're making millions in all the seats and all the tickets and everything else.
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I think it is modern day slavery what they did.
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And they're like, well, this is a terrible thing for the athletes.
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But my point is don't pull it all the way back where let's make it an honest living.
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I think guys like Tim Tebow is a great example of this.
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The amount of money they're bringing into these programs.
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And if you get hurt, you don't go to the next level.
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You deserve to get paid while you're a pro athlete at a university.
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I don't want to see golf disappear, tennis disappear, women's swimming, archery, whatever it may be.
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I say I get frustrated because I genuinely still hate the NCAA right now.
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And if you go and poll athletes, if you did a poll right now of the last 20 years of college athletes in Division I, they will tell you they hate the NCAA.
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And then every time we asked a question, you know what they said?
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If you ask questions about expenses or anything else, you know what they do?
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They would investigate your team and punish you if you ask questions.
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If you don't protect the student athletes moving forward, they're going to get screwed again when you do the new deal.
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And that's where I asked you as a coach, as a former coach now, how do you do both?
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Because I'm telling you the kids will get screwed again because there's too much money not to screw them if you don't pay attention.
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I'm worried that I almost like the Wild West more because at least it's an honest day's work.
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And all the betting that's going on now, it's insane.
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The amount of money around college sports is insane.
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So part of me is like, as a kid, I'm like, if my kid's good enough, bring me the cash too.
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You're making money off of every game of every play.
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By the way, when he says if his kid's good enough, bring him the cash.
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This is not hypothetical because his sons, he had one son who was the number two golfer in the world for his age bracket.
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Auburn won a national championship in golf last year.
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We've got two of the top ten amateurs in the world on our team right now.
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Ben's already buying a beach house off of his boys.
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How many kids are going to get screwed if you overcorrect?
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So I ask that with passion as a former athlete.
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The way the parents have to – some suffer while they're making all this cash off.
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Well, you're right about some of the inequalities.
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I can remember before NIL, we'd make the NCAA tournament and we'd travel wherever we were traveling to.
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And I had parents of some of my players that would take a bus and they'd travel out there.
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I would pray for victory just so they wouldn't have to watch the game lose and then get back on the bus and leave.
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In other words, like before we could help families get there, it was actually – there was a lot of cost involved in trying to support your –
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So we were way behind in trying to take the pendulum, obviously, as one.
00:30:40.620
So basically, in its simplest terms, and the senator understands this, the courts have ruled that the NCAA, the way it was set up, setting these rules of eligibility or whether you could transfer or what your academics could be or what scholarship was allowed and what's an extra benefit,
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all those rules were agreed to by the parties that beat without the student-athletes being involved.
00:31:04.180
And so when somebody took that to court, they said, wait a second, why can't I transfer?
00:31:10.140
Coach can go from Texas to Texas A&M if he wants to.
00:31:17.540
And look, by the way, no coach would ever go save Ole Miss to LSU.
00:31:25.860
I know you were rooting so hard for Ole Miss to win an Addy.
00:31:32.880
So Lane would be sitting there in some hotel room watching that.
00:31:39.940
That would be awesome if Lane and his contract would have got paid if they wanted to.
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Ole Miss was the one that said, look, he would have stayed and coached them.
00:32:01.960
That's like me sleeping, saying, hey, honey, we're going to get a divorce.
00:32:05.020
I slept with the other woman that you caught me with, but I'll sleep with you tonight because
00:32:09.860
When kids would have wanted to go to the transfer portal on me, and they wanted the opportunity
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I said, so you want to go to the transfer portal.
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And if things don't work out, you want to come back.
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Brandy, my wife, coming to me, saying, hey, honey, listen, I love you, but I want to get
00:32:25.780
And if things don't work out, I want to come back.
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When Lane left and he said, I'm leaving, you are dead to me.
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I've got a few Democrats on there and Lane Kiffin.
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00:32:41.440
Like if I get a mugshot, you know it's going to be worth it.
00:32:53.140
This has to be fixed because for a lot of different reasons, obviously women's sports
1.00
00:32:57.400
being cut, non-revenue sports like tennis being cut, we're losing money.
00:33:06.640
The NBA is like the fifth or sixth most watched sport in America.
00:33:13.700
The NBA makes like twice as much money on their television contracts than college football.
00:33:18.160
Because the NBA bargained with the television as a unit, as the National Basketball Association.
00:33:23.920
College football, the SEC's got their contract with ESPN and the ABC.
00:33:31.160
College football needs to become college football and maximize their revenues, which will help
00:33:40.460
And the courts have said the way our laws in the land are written, you can't write these
00:33:45.500
rules and enforce them without infringing on those student athletes' rights.
00:33:49.740
So therefore, what I'm asking would be in exchange for some limited antitrust protection,
00:33:57.940
some limited antitrust protection, Congress would create some law that would at least get
00:34:05.040
us in the room and allow us to talk to the student athletes.
00:34:08.920
There's a special status that's granted to farmers when they co-op.
00:34:13.740
There's a special status that's granted to the Screen Actors Guild.
00:34:19.040
The student athletes don't want to be employees.
00:34:23.220
We don't want to have that kind of collective bargaining to negotiate.
00:34:25.580
But we've got to be able to have college athletics, student athletes, and people that
00:34:29.860
will represent them, call them agents or call them lawyers, get in the same room with
00:34:33.500
some leaders, providing some antitrust protection, and let them come up with an agreement.
00:34:40.680
But without a little bit of help from Congress, a little bit of legislation, figuring out a
00:34:44.820
way to guess in the room, I don't know what the fix is.
00:34:49.820
And as you know, I think it is urgent that Congress act.
00:34:53.360
I've spent three years drafting legislation, working on it.
00:34:57.080
The real question is, are we going to get bipartisan agreement?
00:34:59.520
And I have been, I would say, we are very, very close.
00:35:06.920
I think if Congress doesn't act, we're going to see the college sports that all three of
00:35:11.920
us grew up with, we're going to see it decimated and unrecognizable.
00:35:19.060
One of the great things about sports, it brings people together.
00:35:24.340
From totally different walks of life, from different parties, different races, different
00:35:31.820
And there's something awesome about sports, about a championship.
00:35:37.260
One of the most fun parts of being in the Senate is I get to root on Texas teams.
00:35:50.180
I was going to ask you, what was Jabari like coaching?
00:35:55.540
His three-point shot is getting better every game.
00:36:01.080
I think one of the things that I think when people watch athletes, they just assume that
00:36:12.500
But listen, Ted, that kid was in the gym every morning at six o'clock in the morning
00:36:25.300
I mean, he's got to be 20, 30 pounds heavier, and it's a totally different game because
00:36:32.220
He's now got enough meat that he's pushing them around.
00:36:36.700
But the discipline that it takes to be a trained athlete, the things you have to stay away
00:36:41.400
from as a high school kid or a college kid that maybe other kids could get away with
00:36:47.720
And so I admire, I always tell people, you want to hire somebody in your company or hire
00:36:58.860
They also know how to make sacrifice on the team.
00:37:01.480
They're not worried about other people's success, which when you are just on yourself and all
00:37:05.380
of a sudden you get to the workplace and you have to sort of fit in.
00:37:07.760
It's like it's the first time you've been a part of a team, a part of a family, so on
00:37:11.100
So Jabari is going to be, he'll be an NBA All-Star and he's got a great tutor and Kevin being
00:37:21.460
So last year we were number two going into the playoffs, but we didn't have a superstar.
00:37:27.520
We had a lot of great young, you know, 20, 21, 22-year-old talent that I think is awesome.
00:37:33.840
But we didn't have someone with three minutes to go.
00:37:37.140
You give the ball to and say, okay, we need to score.
00:37:40.440
They're going to get a bucket or they're going to get a foul.
1.00
00:37:42.000
And KD is so much fun watching him because, I mean, he, they'll triple team foul the heck
00:37:47.660
out of him and he makes that lanky fallen back 18 footer that just, how the heck do you
00:38:04.460
And, and by the way, I was at game seven in 94 when we beat the Knicks and won our first
00:38:10.040
And, and it's, it's my favorite sports memory and, and we played at the summit and I remember
00:38:15.880
summits on, on Richmond Avenue in, in Houston, it's now Lakewood church, but it used to be
00:38:20.600
And I remember on the street on Richmond seeing businessmen in three piece suits crying and
00:38:28.680
By the way, the coolest backstory from that game.
00:38:31.180
So where I was sitting was right by where Bob Costas and Dr. J were broadcasting the game
00:38:40.040
And when the TV cameras were off, Dr. J gave Costas so much grief and he was saying, man,
00:38:52.320
And that was the funniest part of the game is Dr. J could talk some trash.
00:38:58.960
It was the funniest part of the game, but, but there's, there's a, all right.
00:39:02.880
Of all the players you've seen, and let's exclude your own players.
00:39:06.300
Cause I don't want to put you in an awkward, but, but of all the players you've seen
00:39:09.200
coaching, who's the best basketball player you've ever seen that you've said, holy cow,
00:39:26.680
He was a little thinner, but you know, you know, when you go to a thoroughbred racetrack
00:39:32.000
and you see the legs and the horses, just different on the, on those thoroughbreds.
00:39:37.000
He had a different, he had a different body, a different build, the way he moved, the way
00:39:43.860
And then what none of us knew was his ability to, to impact the team.
00:39:57.500
He could handle, he, some of the Chicago teams, they weren't, they weren't the most
00:40:01.520
talented teams, but he could handle those guys.
00:40:09.920
I think he made Phil Jackson a better coach because he, listen, not my job.
00:40:14.420
Joby Hall said this, and I heard this at a clinic one time, and I believe this.
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00:40:17.280
Look, it's not my job as a coach to make every right decision.
00:40:21.860
I'm going to make the best decisions I possibly can based on my experience.
00:40:28.340
Not every one of them is going to be the best decision, but it is my player's job to make
00:40:41.360
Get out there and make that 1-3-1 work in this position.
00:40:44.680
When Jordan came to the NBA, I was a big Larry Bird fan.
00:40:47.620
And so I used to argue, oh, you know, Jordan's fine, but he's not Bird.
00:40:53.720
You know, he'd shoot these crazy lefty and jump shots.
00:41:04.620
And then he comes back and starts playing incredible defense.
00:41:06.740
And I'd be like, okay, he can drive, but he can't shoot.
00:41:09.300
And I feel like Jordan just like grabbed me by the head and starts slamming me into the
00:41:14.740
And so I'm finally like, I'm making the arguments and I just stop.
00:41:17.360
And I'm like, yeah, no, Jordan's just like, like it, and I am.
00:41:21.440
I defined what, what would have been my ultimate dream basketball game.
00:41:34.400
Jordan scores 101 points and break, breaks Wilts record.
00:41:37.800
And the Rockets win the championship because Scotty Pippen tips the ball in our basket.
00:41:53.980
Rob's some of his mannerisms and some of his moods.
00:42:01.680
Look, what Jordan had was a heart the size of a basket.
00:42:06.680
The end of a game, you always knew Jordan would get the ball.
00:42:17.400
You know one of the greatest athletes to play the game of basketball?
00:42:28.000
I know a lot of really bad athletes could jump out of the gym.
00:42:43.000
There's some great athletes that are golfers or tennis.
00:42:52.920
Xavier McDonald told a story about covering Bird at the end of a game.
00:43:02.520
And as they're headed to the timeout, Bird said, all right, at the end of the timeout,
00:43:19.240
And he said, there's nothing I could do about it.
00:43:34.380
The mailman told me, Carl Malone, we had dinner together and hung out in Vegas.
00:43:46.160
And he said that the best part about that was watching the greats talk trash in each other's face, calling shots with the young guys.
00:43:58.080
Are you old enough to remember, Bruce is, and I am, I don't know if you are, the McDonald's commercial with Bird and Jordan.
00:44:07.160
It's like, you know, off the rafter, on the back, you know, nothing but net.
00:44:12.400
And it's one of the great, for those of y'all, because we have a lot of young listeners, go Google, like, Bird, Jordan, McDonald's commercial classics.
00:44:21.460
But no, he said the best part about that game when the coaches left the room and it was like they were calling shots in each other's face and there was a lot of betting going on.
00:44:28.260
As he said, seeing Charles Barkley trash talk with Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, you look at that roster of the guys that were there trash talking.
00:44:37.620
And he said it was the ultimate level of trash talking because there was no audience.
00:44:43.500
You weren't worried about anyone recording you.
00:44:47.760
He said it was the most players ever had playing a pickup game because you're playing a pickup game with the best players in the world.
00:44:54.960
So we got another topic that you care deeply about, which is Israel.
00:44:58.220
So tell us a little bit about, number one, why does Israel matter to you?
00:45:06.940
I think because I was in sports and because I was, you know, obviously in college basketball.
00:45:14.380
Again, we're old enough to have seen an educational system growing up.
00:45:19.860
Let's take the state of Indiana, Illinois, different states where you've got inner cities and you've got rural America.
00:45:24.960
Within the same cities, you'd see schools that look like college campuses.
00:45:28.940
And just a few miles down the road, they look like prisons.
00:45:32.600
Like there's more security and more gun, you know, used to go to the screens to get through to school.
00:45:46.980
And I just – I felt like there was sort of some of the things that Dr. King talked about.
00:46:05.400
You know, Haman was going to kill all the Jews in Persia.
0.50
00:46:09.220
And Mordecai, Esther's uncle, said, look, if you don't get to the king, Haman's actually going to – this is going to be the Holocaust.
00:46:20.940
And so my grandfather told me that he named me Mordecai because he wanted me to be somebody that would protect and stand up for the weaker.
00:46:31.000
And so whether it be in school, if you want to try to pick on a kid, you kind of had to go through me.
00:46:38.520
You were a protector, which meant you were the perfect coach.
00:46:43.700
American Jewry should be this country's greatest patriots.
00:46:46.700
Jews in America should be this country's greatest patriots because where else in the history of the world have the Jewish people had an opportunity to work hard, own land, own business, do things, but in this incredible democracy, the United States of America?
00:47:02.320
Nowhere else except maybe Israel right now.
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00:47:05.480
Jews should be this country's greatest patriots.
00:47:07.260
So I – this country saved my grandfather's life.
00:47:10.440
He came from Turnipol in 1929 when he was 11 years old.
00:47:16.700
He brought my Auntie Shirley, my Uncle – my Uncle Harold was an infant, and my Auntie Claire.
00:47:21.120
And he told me this country saved our family's life.
00:47:28.860
Went to the Boston area, went with some family, and much of his family couldn't make the trip, didn't make the trip, died in the Holocaust.
0.66
00:47:35.580
And so he loved Israel because he had told me that if Israel had been a state way back then in 1929, even though it was Zionism, even the Jews were returning to the ancestral home run, America was the dream.
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00:47:49.060
That maybe if Israel was a state back in 29 and they'd have gone to Israel and more of his family, more of my cousins and my aunts and uncles would have survived the Holocaust.
0.65
00:47:59.360
And so those things kind of obviously, you know, sort of, you know, stuck with me.
00:48:06.700
You know, one of the things, Senator, when people want to have some debate about Israel or who our ally is or how much money we're going to say, I love when I speak about raising someone else, say, for the Boys and Girls Club.
00:48:19.880
Let's pretend the Boys and Girls Club didn't exist.
00:48:24.560
How would the boys and girls in this community think of the impact it had?
00:48:36.240
Which, by the way, what would the Middle East look like right now?
00:48:43.300
Look, Israel is surrounded by nations that would drive it into the sea.
0.95
00:48:46.800
And the only reason Israel exists is because it has beaten them over and over and over again in war after war after war, in many instances against all odds.
0.96
00:49:00.200
You know, I'm reminded of – this is kind of a silly analogy, but it's one that resonates with me at least.
00:49:06.600
When I was a kid, there was a book series I read called The Great Brain.
00:49:10.500
It's a seven-book series about a kid growing up in Utah who's a swindler.
00:49:17.280
There are three brothers, Swen D. Fitzgerald, Tom D. Fitzgerald, and John D. Fitzgerald.
00:49:26.440
And it's sort of like a Tom Sawyer sort of thing, but he has all these different cons.
00:49:39.000
And he says, you know, most of the kids there are Mormon.
00:49:45.000
And he said, but the Mormons are very tolerant.
00:49:48.840
And he said it was a very simple matter of Swen D. learning to whip all the kids his age and Tom D. learning to whip all the kids his age and me learning to whip all the kids my age.
00:49:56.760
And he has a line, it's amazing how tolerant kids can be when you can whip them.
00:50:03.440
And that phrase, it's amazing how tolerant people can be when you can whip them.
00:50:13.500
You look at peace that broke out, I think, under President Trump's leadership.
00:50:16.820
None of that happens except for the fact that Israel can whip them.
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00:50:21.600
And they've demonstrated it over and over again as recently as this past year in the 12-day war.
00:50:27.220
And by the way, as the three of us are talking, there are millions of people on the streets of Iran risking their lives.
00:50:33.920
And you look at women that are standing up there and men, they are literally – far too many are being slaughtered.
00:50:40.520
The others, if the revolution doesn't succeed, they can anticipate being rounded up, tortured, murdered.
00:50:48.620
And in many ways, I think this is the consequence of losing a war that sometimes in today's political world, we think everything is a comms matter.
00:51:05.140
And if you are the Ayatollah Khamenei, you are an Islamist dictator, your staying in power is predicated on convincing your citizenry you are omnipotent.
0.91
00:51:20.620
There is no hope in rising up because I cannot be beaten.
00:51:24.280
And if there's anything worse for an Islamist dictator than losing a war, it's losing to Israel.
0.88
00:51:37.140
And we said on this podcast in the wake of this, I said, I believe the regime will fall because they've been shown to be a paper tiger.
00:51:46.520
And look, my prayers are – I can think of nothing that would make the Middle East safer, that would make America safer than having that theocratic lunatic who chants death to America no longer in charge.
00:52:08.900
Sometimes that guy, that tough guy, he doesn't actually have to fight.
00:52:13.220
Because – and so our greatest deterrent with China and Russia is our own strength.
0.92
00:52:22.380
It's the best way to avoid a war, which is good for everybody.
00:52:25.540
And so I look at the countries in the Middle East.
00:52:29.300
I think the UAE figured this out first before anybody else.
00:52:35.020
We're better off being in some sort of a normal relationship with Israel.
0.99
00:52:47.940
And by the way, before the end of the Trump presidency, Saudi Arabia will enter the Abraham Accords.
00:52:55.320
If Trump had served a second term consecutively, they would have done so during his second term.
00:53:00.300
Let me ask – because we're going to wrap up soon.
00:53:02.500
But let me ask – you and I have talked a lot about rising anti-Semitism in America.
00:53:19.180
What are your reactions to what's happening in this country right now?
00:53:24.400
I would like to try to – while it's on the rise.
00:53:28.320
There were three Jewish basketball coaches that were in the Final Four this past year.
00:53:37.660
In other words, I want to tell my players, look – and this is what always bothered me about President Obama,
00:53:42.020
who in so many ways I admired as an incredible orator and just – I was so proud of our country
00:53:47.600
for electing a black man to be our president twice.
00:53:57.360
Because for a century, African-Americans were slaves.
00:54:09.280
And so I agree with Dr. King that the arc of justice is long, but it – the arc of history
00:54:23.720
I recognize my players get profiled driving while black in certain things or certain challenges.
00:54:29.580
I reckon – but I don't want them to use that as an excuse for failure.
00:54:34.260
I don't want – and so, yes, there's theology that sometimes wants to divide us.
00:54:43.540
You could either look at the Jews and say, well, you all killed Christ.
00:54:49.960
Well, was it not God's plan to send his son die so that you would be brought into covenant
00:55:06.500
My wife's two favorite Jews in Alabama are me and Jesus.
00:55:11.580
And so for me, that unites me with my Christian brothers.
00:55:15.200
Twelve Jewish men died horrific deaths bringing Christianity to this world.
1.00
00:55:21.780
And so for me, I say – I don't want – I don't – nobody say thank you, but we – there
00:55:29.180
are so many Christians that are standing with us, Senator, as you know.
00:55:32.820
And so while we can talk about the rise in anti-Semitism, we've got to protect us from
00:55:42.020
There's going to be the haves and the have-nots.
00:55:45.600
Is there a disproportionate number of American Jews that have wealth in this country compared
00:55:53.440
Go back 80 years ago and see what those numbers were.
00:55:56.180
They turned the boats around from Europe because we came over here poor and uneducated.
00:56:01.740
And we just took advantage of the American dream.
00:56:04.720
And we should not apologize for the fact that we've worked so hard and be grateful for
00:56:13.040
It's on the rise, but you can still be anything you want to be in this country.
00:56:19.000
One, one of the things I admire most about the Jewish people in the United States and
00:56:25.020
more broadly is the incredible success they've achieved.
00:56:28.200
And you're right that virtually all of them in the United States at least started with nothing.
00:56:34.240
And you look at, in Judaism, the culture of hard work and discipline and family and education
00:56:40.540
and that has led to extraordinary financial success, extraordinary.
00:56:45.500
The number of Nobel Prizes won by Israel, won by Jews in America is extraordinary.
00:56:53.540
And I actually view it sort of in the intellectual and the free enterprise capitalist world, sort
00:56:58.880
of like the principle I said before about it's amazing how tolerant people can be when you
00:57:02.780
Like, that's great success and I think all of us should emulate the attributes of discipline
00:57:14.500
A second point, I didn't know what you were going to say when I asked about anti-Semitism,
00:57:18.860
but I started chuckling because the week before Christmas, and Ben will remember this,
00:57:24.480
I sent out a tweet and I said two thoughts to drive the anti-Semites crazy.
00:57:29.000
In this Christmas season, number one, our Savior Jesus was Jewish in the line of David.
00:57:48.680
Is that he willingly took the cross to die for our sins.
00:57:53.000
And so the sort of anti-Semites who say Jews killed Jesus, well actually, it was Romans
00:58:06.700
And I will admit I was kind of happy with that tweet because it really did drive the anti-Semites
00:58:11.600
One of the biggest things, Chris, and I know we've got to wrap up.
00:58:14.920
Young Christians today, the podcasters, the people that are preaching this replacement
0.98
00:58:22.120
theology, utter garbage, the love of country and the love of Christ only, you're driving
00:58:35.880
He's not going to break covenant with the Christians.
00:58:39.640
He just doesn't go against what he says he will do.
00:58:44.980
And so the people that want to believe that, well, Jews, you didn't accept Jesus as Messiah,
00:58:51.260
But for the grace of God, okay, but for his grace, who knows, you know, exactly what is
00:58:57.540
So I'm confident as a coach, I'm always trying to bring people together and bring teams together
00:59:05.900
But instead, I look to the things that unite us and it's amazing the things that we can do
00:59:10.040
If you think of your life's greatest accomplishments, you accomplish it with the people that you
00:59:19.040
And I would hope that if you needed something, there's a hospital someplace in Dallas that's
00:59:30.940
There'd be somebody that you might call that might be Jewish, knowing that there are people
00:59:38.060
I told my Jewish people, look, we got to, you know, I don't know why God said we're
00:59:41.560
the chosen people, because my grandma said, the chosen people.
00:59:53.220
I got to walk it every single day and I'm okay with it.
01:00:02.640
Got the national championship football game coming up.
01:00:05.560
Who's going to win and what's the final score going to be?
01:00:13.620
I coached in Evansville, Indiana for nine years.
01:00:23.320
I got more friends in Miami than I do in Indiana.
01:00:26.940
You may have a few less after you just made your pick, you know.
01:00:41.940
By the way, I want to make a request to all our verdict listeners.
01:00:46.760
So I had a wager yesterday on the Texans-Steelers game.
01:00:51.980
I had a wager with John Fetterman and Dave McCormick.
01:00:59.400
I proposed – and this is a sports wager I make with some frequency, which is the loser presents – like what I offered up was Texas barbecue, Blue Bell ice cream, and Shiner Bock beer, and you present it in the winner's jersey.
01:01:13.920
And Fetterman – and Dave's a really good friend, and John's become a good friend.
01:01:27.940
He said, you will walk onto the Senate floor, and he went and bought, wearing a Steelers beanie, and this giant piece of bling that says Steelers that's, I don't know, about 10 inches wide, this giant gold chain.
01:01:45.040
Yeah, you can bring the barbecue and stuff if you've got to walk on.
01:01:47.320
And he tweeted out a picture of the horrible beanie and the Steelers bling.
01:01:57.120
It was – and by the way, I grew up as a Houston fan.
01:02:00.860
There's no team on earth like the Steelers that caused Houston fans to twitch because in the 70s we had the greatest team we ever had.
01:02:08.580
The Oilers, we had Earl Campbell, and we ran in to one of the greatest teams to ever play.
01:02:14.340
And the 79 and 80 ASC championships were crushing.
01:02:24.280
So my question – and this is actually a request to all our social media followers.
01:02:34.580
What horribly tacky Texans bling do we have?
1.00
01:02:46.300
I just want him to look like a rapper going to cast that vote because he's kind of – you know, he can get free for it.
01:02:50.700
Given what they picked, it's got to be a little over the top.
01:02:55.460
I'd make Fetterman wear a suit because putting him in a hoodie –
01:03:02.400
We gave them both grief today and they both said, yep, we'll wear it.
01:03:09.420
And so I'm looking forward to collecting on this one.
01:03:11.920
We need more senators like John Fetterman.
0.97
01:03:26.900
Don't forget, you can grab the show Monday, Wednesday, Friday.
01:03:29.260
Hit the subscribe auto download button as well.
01:03:31.620
And on YouTube, you can watch this video as well if you're there, if you want to watch it on Facebook.
01:03:36.480
And the Senate and I will see you back here in a couple of days.