Verdict with Ted Cruz - December 21, 2024


Liberals Still Blind on Illegal Immigration, Gangs ARE Taking Over CO Apartments & Importance of the Debt Ceiling Week In Review

Hosted by
Ted Cruz
Mentioned
Mike Johnson Martha Raddatz Verdict Ben Ferguson Greg Abbott Graham Rudman Hollings Elizabeth Warren Katie Couric Ron DeSantis Donald Trump Joe Biden Jennifer Stewart Caitlin Clark Bernie Sanders Kevin McCarthy Chuck Schumer Barack Obama JD Vance Keith Chattanova Todd Chamberlain and 8 more
Chaos & Shutdown： What it All Means & What Comes Next Trump & Cruz at Turning Point on the Incredible Mandate from the Election, plus Biden Considering Pardoning Every Murderer on Federal Death Row

Episode Stats


Length

32 minutes

Words per minute

160.2

Word count

5,142

Sentence count

387

Harmful content

Misogyny

8

sentences flagged

Toxicity

8

sentences flagged

Hate speech

8

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Ted Cruz explains why the immigration policies that cost the Democrats the election, and why they veered so far to the right, on the issue of illegal immigration. He also explains why he thinks it s a good idea to send illegal immigrants to other parts of the country.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.
00:00:05.640 Welcome.
00:00:06.380 It is Verdict with Ted Cruz and our Week in Review.
00:00:09.320 Ben Ferguson with you.
00:00:10.520 And these are the major stories that we talked about this week.
00:00:13.800 And, well, it was a big week in news.
00:00:16.000 First up, Democrats still out to lunch,
00:00:19.300 not understanding exactly why the policies they have on illegal immigration
00:00:24.880 lost them the election.
00:00:26.740 How do we know this?
00:00:27.540 Because of new polling data that proves they were out of touch with reality
00:00:32.280 on securing the southern border.
00:00:34.740 We'll break that down for you.
00:00:36.440 Also, the big lie.
00:00:38.560 You may remember the left and the media said that there were not gangs
00:00:42.760 from other countries that were taking over apartment complexes in Colorado.
00:00:47.440 Well, we now have even more proof of just how extreme those gang members
00:00:51.840 have become in those apartment complexes.
00:00:54.340 Now, kidnapping and torturing people.
00:00:58.080 The details on that as well.
00:01:00.600 And finally, we have a big fight over the debt ceiling
00:01:04.080 that is taking place as we speak in Washington.
00:01:06.840 So why is the debt ceiling so important?
00:01:09.440 We'll break down the logistics of that as well.
00:01:12.000 It's the Week in Review.
00:01:13.140 And it starts right now.
00:01:15.400 Finally, Senator, this is another story.
00:01:18.020 And the media is trying to figure this out.
00:01:20.020 The Democratic Party is trying to figure it out.
00:01:21.520 How did we lose this last election?
00:01:23.240 What caused it?
00:01:24.200 Was it really our policy on migrants and illegal immigrants?
00:01:27.880 And there was a very interesting conversation that took place.
00:01:31.140 And people, even on the left, were like, is this an aha moment?
00:01:35.320 And I laugh because it's something that you actually said on this show a couple years ago.
00:01:40.940 Jessica Tarlove and Katie Couric were talking about GOP governors sending illegal immigrants
00:01:46.540 to other parts of country from border states.
00:01:50.080 And I want to play this clip for people.
00:01:52.100 And specifically, we're talking about Ron DeSantis in Florida, Greg Abbott in Texas.
00:01:57.380 And this is what they said in reaction.
00:02:00.980 On the immigration front, there was a tendency amongst Democrats,
00:02:05.920 and especially Democrats, who are discussing the issue.
00:02:07.960 So people who do interviews or are part of the media,
00:02:10.940 to minimize it over the first two and a half years,
00:02:15.400 when there were a lot of people coming in here.
00:02:18.500 And I thought that it was a stunt, you know, when they started busing migrants. 1.00
00:02:24.080 They go to Martha's Vineyards.
00:02:25.200 It was the smartest thing they ever did.
00:02:28.480 Well, it's interesting because I have a friend who lives in Florida.
00:02:30.700 And I said, what did you think of Ron DeSantis and Greg Abbott
00:02:35.700 taking some of these immigrants and moving them to northern states?
00:02:40.580 And she said, I thought it was great.
00:02:43.000 Because nobody really was paying attention before that.
00:02:46.980 And I do think that this untold story was the strain on social services and communities,
00:02:55.400 particularly along the border, this influx, huge influx of immigrants was having.
00:03:01.260 And I think the mainstream media, however you define that these days,
00:03:05.960 kind of ignored that story to its peril.
00:03:09.820 I mean, wow, right?
00:03:11.160 Like, at least they're figuring it out.
00:03:13.180 I don't want to say that all the media is figuring it out, but it is pretty funny.
00:03:16.920 They figured it out.
00:03:17.540 The only problem is they were just a couple of years too late.
00:03:20.000 Yeah, look, it's striking to hear Katie Couric admitting that.
00:03:23.420 Now, as you know, this was an idea that I suggested three years ago.
00:03:28.200 In October of 2021, I introduced a bill called the Surge Act.
00:03:32.520 And the Surge Act was designed to create 13 new ports of entry to send illegal immigrants. 0.57
00:03:42.740 And here's what my press release said at the time.
00:03:46.140 If Washington Democrats had to endure even a fraction of the suffering South Texas families,
00:03:50.400 farmers, ranchers, and small businesses have had to face,
00:03:53.720 our nation's immigration laws would be in force, 0.92
00:03:56.260 the wall would be built, and Remain in Mexico policy would be implemented.
00:03:59.420 And so I introduced legislation to change the points of entry and add 13 new places.
00:04:07.560 Block Island, Rhode Island, Greenwich, Connecticut, Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts,
00:04:13.080 Cambridge, Massachusetts, Governors Island, New York, Rehoboth Beach, Delaware,
00:04:18.600 Nantucket, Massachusetts, Newport, Rhode Island, Scarsdale, New York, Palo Alto, California,
00:04:24.220 Yuntville, California, St. Helena, California, and North Hero, Vermont.
00:04:29.420 Which is where Bernie Sanders vacations.
00:04:32.140 And the idea was all the places where rich liberals sit and sip Chardonnay
00:04:37.560 and look down on people concerned about the open borders.
00:04:42.400 And it was really striking.
00:04:44.100 At the time I introduced this legislation,
00:04:47.040 the leftist media went crazy.
00:04:49.900 And in fact, the county executive at Martha's Vineyard attacked me, attacked me by name.
00:04:55.520 And he said, Cruz doesn't understand immigration.
00:04:59.180 And he said, we in Martha's Vineyard would welcome illegal immigrants.
00:05:05.240 Well, several months later, Ron DeSantis and Greg Abbott took me up on what I had suggested.
00:05:10.780 And they did exactly that.
00:05:12.460 They sent 50 illegal immigrants to Martha's Vineyard.
00:05:15.100 And of course, that same county executive within 24 hours declared an emergency
00:05:19.660 and ended up deporting the 50 who had been sent.
00:05:24.340 And I'll tell you, we actually covered this on Verdict several years ago.
00:05:28.700 So I want you to play an old segment from Verdict.
00:05:31.040 This is actually pre the great Ben Ferguson.
00:05:34.160 This is back when Michael Knowles and I were doing it.
00:05:36.740 Our good friend.
00:05:37.540 Yeah.
00:05:37.840 Yes.
00:05:38.500 The voice is about to change a little bit, right?
00:05:40.860 But this is us talking about it three years ago.
00:05:45.000 And it had a bit of foreshadowing.
00:05:48.920 So give a listen.
00:05:50.420 They've just sent airplanes full of illegal aliens to Martha's Vineyard. 0.99
00:05:56.720 And I cheered when I saw the headline.
00:05:59.820 And then I had to think, you know, there's a certain podcast hosted by a certain senator
00:06:05.200 from Texas that has been calling exactly for that for many weeks now.
00:06:11.440 And I just can't help but wonder if that may have had some effect on this policy going into effect.
00:06:17.060 I was thrilled when the governor of Texas, Greg Abbott, took me up on the idea and began
00:06:21.880 sending illegal immigrants first to D.C., then to New York, then to Chicago.
00:06:25.720 It's had a fantastic event as these these Democratic mayors have lost their minds and
00:06:31.820 declared national emergencies.
00:06:34.040 The mayor of D.C. declared a national emergency or a city emergency because
00:06:38.460 six thousand illegal immigrants were sent to D.C., of course.
00:06:42.880 We've had since Joe Biden became president, we have had four point two million illegal
00:06:49.680 immigrants cross illegally with Biden as president.
00:06:52.540 It is horrific.
00:06:53.200 That's a crazy number.
00:06:54.440 Four point two million.
00:06:56.780 That is a crazy number.
00:06:58.460 It is larger than many of the states of our union.
00:07:02.000 I mean, four point two million since Joe Biden put his hand on the Bible and took the oath
00:07:07.760 of office.
00:07:08.680 That's what's come.
00:07:09.720 And it continues to get worse.
00:07:10.900 And what is amazing about when when red state governors, first Texas, now Florida, are shipping
00:07:18.140 to blue strongholds is the Democrats who talk a good game immediately flip tail.
00:07:24.740 So I want to give you a quote on from Martha's Vineyard.
00:07:27.920 When I introduced the legislation, you had Democrats, Democrats in the House of Representatives
00:07:33.440 slam me. 1.00
00:07:34.200 Um, but I want to read from the county commissioner of Martha's Vineyard, Keith Chattanova.
00:07:42.160 And here's the quote he said about my legislation.
00:07:46.540 I would love to see Martha's Vineyard become a haven for new immigrants in the country.
00:07:53.380 But Senator Cruz has no idea what he's talking about regarding a border crisis.
00:07:59.020 He went on to say immigrants make our country stronger, as evidenced by immigration from
00:08:04.180 Brazil and other countries to the vineyard.
00:08:05.880 And he is trying to whip up racial anxieties for political gain, which is essentially the
00:08:11.540 entire GOP platform.
00:08:13.200 Anyhow, that's before they arrived.
00:08:15.560 I want to see if after two, three, four, five, six, 10, 100 plane loads or bus loads, if
00:08:23.500 the county commissioner has the same view.
00:08:26.700 Three years ago, you said that, Senator.
00:08:28.940 And and now we're seeing that Democrats are actually saying, man, this is really effective.
00:08:34.900 Like this was really, really effective.
00:08:36.900 You did this.
00:08:37.960 It stopped the surge in October 2021.
00:08:41.080 And by the way, three years ago, notice that number, 4.2 million illegal immigrants were
00:08:47.640 now over 12 million.
00:08:49.900 You what has happened at our southern border is an experiment in radicalism that has never
00:08:56.500 been tried in the United States of America.
00:08:58.560 Our country is struggling.
00:09:00.680 The suffering that has occurred.
00:09:02.900 And and and I will say the actual sending of plane loads and bus loads of illegal immigrants 0.89
00:09:08.860 to blue strongholds, it showed the complete and utter hypocrisy as every Democrat mayor,
00:09:14.700 every Democrat governor, every Democrat county executive completely demonstrated everything 0.73
00:09:19.800 they'd been saying was a lie.
00:09:21.180 And it broke through the media freeze out in a way nothing else did. 0.59
00:09:28.400 I think Katie Couric's right that that that single action of demonstrating Democrat hypocrisy 0.84
00:09:34.600 on this issue could well have decided the presidential election last month.
00:09:39.740 Now, if you want to hear the rest of this conversation, you can go back and listen to
00:09:43.480 the full podcast from earlier this week.
00:09:46.600 Canadian women are looking for more, more to themselves, their businesses, their elected 0.99
00:09:51.020 leaders and the world around them.
00:09:52.780 And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast.
00:09:56.600 I'm Jennifer Stewart.
00:09:57.700 And I'm Catherine Clark.
00:09:58.920 And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women, entrepreneurs, artists,
00:10:03.760 athletes, politicians, and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey.
00:10:08.420 So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us.
00:10:11.640 Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on iHeartRadio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
00:10:17.460 Now on to story number two.
00:10:19.800 Speaking of conspiracy theories, it's six months ago, they said we're not real or five months
00:10:24.600 or four months or three months or even two months ago.
00:10:27.080 And then it becomes real.
00:10:28.780 That brings me to the second big topic that we mentioned earlier.
00:10:32.200 And let's go back to Colorado.
00:10:35.500 Let's go back to what the White House and the media said.
00:10:38.960 They said that it was not happening, that there were not gangs that had been taking over
00:10:46.560 apartment complexes and running these criminal gangs out of them in Aurora, Colorado.
00:10:52.760 They said this was a lie, that it wasn't true.
00:10:56.200 Then they said, well, it's only happening in a couple of them, not that many.
00:11:00.720 So it's not a big deal.
00:11:02.400 They changed their story again.
00:11:04.200 And now we were right all along.
00:11:06.780 Illegal alien invasion in Colorado.
00:11:08.740 Number one is real.
00:11:10.020 And number two, you have 14 detained in Aurora, Colorado in a horrific home invasion that are
00:11:16.780 likely illegal gang members.
00:11:19.380 Police are now saying when individuals were not only taken, but they were tortured.
00:11:24.620 Well, Martha Raddatz at ABC dismissed this, said, oh, it's only a handful of apartment
00:11:30.000 complexes, which with the classic contempt of the elite left looking down on little people
00:11:37.600 that live in apartment buildings who are being terrorized.
00:11:40.080 But this story broke this week.
00:11:41.880 The headline from Fox News, 14 detained in armed Aurora, Colorado home invasion are likely
00:11:49.200 illegal gang members.
00:11:51.280 Home invasion occurred at the edge at Lowry Apartments, where viral videos showed gang
00:11:55.940 members earlier this year.
00:11:57.760 So the media told us, don't believe your lying eyes.
00:12:01.000 Oddly enough, the same thing they're saying about the drone sightings in the sky.
00:12:05.120 But here's what Fox reported.
00:12:08.040 Quote, police in Aurora, Colorado, say the overnight armed home invasion at a local apartment
00:12:13.300 complex that resulted in 14 suspects being detained was, quote, without question, a gang
00:12:21.100 incident.
00:12:22.260 Just before 2.30 a.m.
00:12:23.740 on Tuesday, police were called to the edge at Lowry Apartments for a reported armed home
00:12:29.940 invasion in which the victims were kidnapped and assaulted, the Aurora police said.
00:12:35.320 Aurora Police Department Chief Todd Chamberlain said during a Tuesday news conference that
00:12:41.220 13 to 15 people, mostly males with some females, entered an apartment where two people were
00:12:47.460 inside.
00:12:48.880 Police say the suspects took the migrant victims to another apartment at the same location
00:12:53.400 where the victims were threatened and bound.
00:12:57.460 One of the victims, a man, sustained a stab wound but is expected to survive, police said.
00:13:02.760 Both of the victims are still at the hospital for treatment for their injuries.
00:13:07.240 At some point, authorities said, the suspects released the victims who then called 911.
00:13:13.640 Quote, they were pistol whipped.
00:13:16.380 They were beat.
00:13:17.660 They were mistreated, Chamberlain said.
00:13:20.080 So does that fall in the category of torture for me?
00:13:23.920 Yeah, it does.
00:13:25.720 That's the chief of police in Aurora, Colorado.
00:13:28.520 And he went on to say, quote, this is without question a gang incident.
00:13:34.560 I don't know which gang they're affiliated with yet.
00:13:38.200 Chamberlain said that, quote, there is a high assumption that they may be affiliated with
00:13:44.600 the TDA, the Trender-Aragua gang.
00:13:47.000 But he stopped short of declaring which gang in particular was involved because he could not
00:13:50.920 be certain at this time.
00:13:53.920 We were told this wasn't true.
00:13:57.740 And yet it is true.
00:14:00.980 Well, and let's go back to Martha Raddick, because this was when she was getting into it 0.61
00:14:04.800 on that with J.D. Vance on this issue.
00:14:07.680 And I want you to hear what she had to say.
00:14:10.380 And again, this is it goes back to the lies when people don't trust the media or the government
00:14:14.740 when they lie to us.
00:14:15.700 I don't want to stop you.
00:14:17.800 The incidents were limited to a handful of apartment complexes, and the mayor said our
00:14:25.740 dedicated police officers have acted on those concerns.
00:14:29.460 A handful of problems.
00:14:32.340 Only, Martha, do you hear yourself?
00:14:34.960 Only a handful of apartment complexes in America were taken over by Venezuelan gangs, and Donald
00:14:40.600 Trump is the problem and not Kamala Harris's open border.
00:14:43.660 However, Americans are so fed up with what's going on, and they have every right to be.
00:14:48.580 By the way, if it's your apartment complex, I think it is a big deal when you have it
00:14:52.320 being taken over by a gang, and the government doesn't stop.
00:14:55.880 Lives in opulence.
00:14:56.980 She's a multimillionaire. 1.00
00:14:58.100 It's not her problem.
00:14:59.640 Her home wasn't taken over by Venezuelan gangs.
00:15:02.240 So why should she possibly be concerned?
00:15:04.880 And listen, that liberal contempt for ordinary Americans is a big part of the reason we saw
00:15:13.180 the overwhelming election results we did in November.
00:15:17.480 Finally, Senator, I want to get to this other issue, and that is there's a study that has
00:15:23.280 come out.
00:15:23.820 It's really shocking.
00:15:24.760 And it is one where, I guess you call it a poll, that young people in this country actually
00:15:31.620 are understanding of the assassin in New York City who killed the healthcare CEO, saying
00:15:40.280 it's almost justifiable that this is happening to people that work in industries they don't
00:15:44.600 like.
00:15:45.880 Yeah, this is really stunning.
00:15:47.440 So Emerson College put out a poll, and they polled people's attitudes towards the healthcare
00:15:54.300 CEO assassination.
00:15:55.640 Here's what they concluded, quote, a majority of voters, 68%, think the actions of the killer
00:16:02.840 of the United Healthcare CEO, Brian Thompson, are unacceptable.
00:16:07.560 So I want you to pause and think about that.
00:16:10.140 Only 68% of Americans think it is unacceptable to murder someone in cold blood.
00:16:14.800 17% find the actions acceptable, murdering someone in cold blood, mind you, while 16% are
00:16:26.440 unsure.
00:16:27.680 Now, if you break it down a little more, here's what Emerson College continues, quote, while 68%
00:16:35.180 of voters overall reject the killer's actions, younger voters and Democrats are more split.
00:16:42.440 41% of voters aged 18 to 29 find the killer's actions acceptable, while 40% find them unacceptable.
00:16:56.340 So according to Emerson College polls, more young people aged 18 to 29 find the cold-blooded
00:17:02.740 murder of this CEO acceptable than find it unacceptable.
00:17:06.240 And it's 41% to 40, if you break down that 41%, 24% say it is somewhat acceptable, and 17% say
00:17:17.540 it is completely acceptable. 0.99
00:17:20.000 Yes, murder of CEO, we've been trained like good little Marxists, shoot them now. 0.97
00:17:24.820 By the way, if you break it down on party lines, 22% of Democrats find them acceptable, while 0.97
00:17:35.140 59% find them unacceptable.
00:17:37.820 So over a fifth of Democrats think it's perfectly fine to murder a CEO, to murder a man in cold 0.99
00:17:46.400 blood, to shoot him in the back. 0.71
00:17:47.740 And the comparison among Republicans, 12% of Republicans find the actions acceptable, and 0.98
00:17:54.740 16% of independents find the actions acceptable.
00:18:00.240 I got to say, look, of all of those polls, the one that is the most horrifying is 41% of
00:18:07.620 young people find the killer's actions acceptable, and only 40% find them unacceptable.
00:18:13.040 So a plurality of young people say, hey, no problem, murder someone who's a CEO, that
00:18:20.780 is as stunning an indictment of the brainwashing that young people are receiving in school,
00:18:27.280 in K-12 education, in colleges and universities, and through the media, as anything I've ever
00:18:33.280 seen.
00:18:34.080 It is an indoctrination, and it's also, I think, the radical left taking over education, and
00:18:40.760 they're normalizing it.
00:18:41.540 It's what you and I talked about on this podcast a couple days ago.
00:18:44.180 The left has normalized the idea of assassinating people you disagree with who are in positions
00:18:49.520 of power, and giving you reason to believe that it is justifiable.
00:18:54.320 And remember, Joy Behar on The View said it was terrible that I said it was leftists who
00:18:59.680 are saying this.
00:19:00.320 Well, look, that polling data shows it's Democrats, and it's young.
00:19:04.040 It doesn't break it down by liberal or conservative, but I am very confident a significant percentage
00:19:11.640 of those young people that think it's acceptable would also identify as leftists, and we know
00:19:17.580 that young people skew for their left anyway.
00:19:19.600 Anyway, this is, look, let me repeat what ought to be a simple proposition.
00:19:27.040 Murder is always, always, always wrong, whether you like the person or not.
00:19:31.220 And by the way, all the people who think the murder of this CEO is so horrible, they don't
00:19:36.540 know anything about him.
00:19:37.500 They don't know about any health care claims he denied.
00:19:40.920 He was CEO of a major health care insurance company.
00:19:43.800 Now, I get a lot of people don't like insurance companies.
00:19:46.220 I've got issues with insurance companies, but this guy may be a wonderful human being.
00:19:50.400 We don't know.
00:19:51.000 He was a father.
00:19:51.800 He had two teenage kids.
00:19:53.380 He was murdered in cold blood.
00:19:55.160 And yet, according to this poll, 41% of young people think perfectly okay to murder him.
00:20:02.860 That is, we need to see people speaking out and saying, this is wrong, period, the end,
00:20:09.400 not like, and we covered this in Monday's podcast, not like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders
00:20:15.080 and AOC, murder is wrong, but it's okay, A.R.
00:20:18.780 I understand it here.
00:20:19.880 People can only be pushed so far.
00:20:21.320 No, murder is wrong, period, the end.
00:20:24.960 That would actually be a good and sensible and moral and reasonable position in what was
00:20:29.960 understood throughout American history, at least in modern times.
00:20:36.200 But, for the cultural Marxists, murder of the enemy, no problem.
00:20:42.580 As before, if you want to hear the rest of this conversation on this topic, you can go
00:20:47.980 back and download the podcast from early this week to hear the entire thing.
00:20:52.580 Canadian women are looking for more. 1.00
00:20:54.740 More out of themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world around them.
00:20:58.880 And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast.
00:21:02.600 I'm Jennifer Stewart.
00:21:03.780 And I'm Catherine Clark.
00:21:04.720 And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women, entrepreneurs, artists,
00:21:10.120 athletes, politicians, and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey.
00:21:14.520 So, if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us.
00:21:17.740 Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on iHeartRadio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
00:21:23.500 I want to get back to the big story number three of the week you may have missed.
00:21:27.520 Here's the third principle I want to say.
00:21:31.240 There are some people arguing for eliminating the debt ceiling permanently, altogether.
00:21:35.820 Just getting rid of the debt ceiling, never again having to worry about it.
00:21:38.680 And by the way, one of the plans that's discussed is, well, the Democrats have always wanted to
00:21:42.600 eliminate the debt ceiling, so let's just do that.
00:21:45.000 And that's how we get out of this.
00:21:46.180 I pray that is not the endgame here.
00:21:50.460 Eliminating the debt ceiling would be the single worst step we could possibly take if you care about spending or deficits or debt.
00:22:00.140 Now, why is that?
00:22:01.880 Okay, let's do a little history.
00:22:03.040 Historically, the debt ceiling has been the single greatest leverage Republicans have had to force spending restraint.
00:22:13.740 Now, this has only happened and it's only worked against the opposing party.
00:22:18.440 So, one of the challenges with the debt ceiling is when your own party is in power,
00:22:23.280 Trump wants the debt ceiling raised, every president wants the debt ceiling raised.
00:22:26.080 Republicans, as a general matter, are not willing to exert massive leverage on their own party's president and force spending restraint.
00:22:36.600 So, when Trump was president the first time, the debt ceiling was not leveraged against Trump because Republicans didn't want to do that.
00:22:43.840 I understand that.
00:22:45.220 But when Democrats are in the White House, Republicans, the debt ceiling is the single most effective lever point that has been used against Democrats
00:22:54.320 to force spending restraints.
00:22:56.840 And I want to point to a couple of examples.
00:22:58.420 Number one, Graham Rudman Hollings.
00:23:01.000 Graham Rudman Hollings passed decades ago.
00:23:04.600 Remains the single most effective spending restraint that has ever been passed into law.
00:23:09.640 Phil Graham, former senator from Texas, was the lead author.
00:23:12.640 How did that get passed?
00:23:13.860 It got passed because of the debt ceiling.
00:23:15.560 It got passed because Republicans forced it and said,
00:23:19.180 we won't raise the debt ceiling unless you pass meaningful structural reform to rein in spending.
00:23:25.280 And Graham Hollings was in effect for many years and had a very positive effect reining in the growth of spending.
00:23:35.280 I'll point to a second example.
00:23:37.360 2010, the Budget Control Act.
00:23:39.020 2010, Barack Obama was president.
00:23:41.040 And Republicans used the debt ceiling to force Barack Obama to agree to something called the Budget Control Act.
00:23:49.980 The Budget Control Act, again, significantly constrained the growth of federal spending.
00:23:56.400 It was only through the debt ceiling we got that.
00:24:01.040 Now, the argument, and by the way, today, Republican senators, we all had lunch.
00:24:07.560 J.D. Vance came to express his views to the lunch.
00:24:12.880 There were a number of Republicans saying, well, we should just get rid of the debt ceiling now.
00:24:17.480 And I'll tell you, I expressed my views.
00:24:19.600 If we get rid of the debt ceiling, it would be utterly disastrous.
00:24:22.560 If you care remotely about government spending, eliminate the debt ceiling would be a massive mistake.
00:24:28.940 And I just pointed out, if we get rid of the debt ceiling, there will come another Democrat president. 0.75
00:24:34.500 I get the urge to live in the moment of we're in charge, woo-ha.
00:24:38.640 But unfortunately, there will come another time when the American people elect a Democrat.
00:24:44.280 And for anyone who has an attention span beyond 12 seconds, you recognize throughout history that politics has been a pendulum.
00:24:52.040 And it goes from one party to the other.
00:24:53.620 So we will get another Democrat president. 0.75
00:24:55.400 And I told my colleagues today at lunch, I said, all right, you get rid of the debt ceiling.
00:24:59.940 Get ready for President Elizabeth Warren.
00:25:02.660 And if you don't like a $36 trillion debt, get ready for a $50 trillion debt.
00:25:08.400 Because the Democrats, Elizabeth Warren wants to eliminate the debt ceiling. 1.00
00:25:13.320 AOC wants to eliminate the debt ceiling.
00:25:15.740 Chuck Schumer wants to eliminate the debt ceiling because they want to spend us into oblivion.
00:25:20.400 So I will say one potential way out of this is to cut an absolute deal with the Democrats that gets rid of the debt ceiling forever.
00:25:30.660 We will have given away what history has proven.
00:25:33.300 And by the way, I'll go back.
00:25:35.460 I'll go back to about a decade.
00:25:36.980 I don't have the most recent stats.
00:25:38.340 But about a decade ago, it was the case that of the previous 51 times Congress had raised the debt ceiling.
00:25:45.040 Twenty-eight of those times that it attached meaningful conditions to the debt ceiling.
00:25:50.280 So it's leverage.
00:25:51.140 Remember my principle number two is use spending for leverage?
00:25:54.700 This is related on principle number three.
00:25:56.540 The debt ceiling is about getting leverage for concessions.
00:26:00.440 Now, here's the problem.
00:26:02.740 I mentioned to you there are a bunch of Republicans in the House who say they'll never vote for a continuing resolution.
00:26:08.120 There are also a bunch of Republicans in the House who say they will never, ever, ever vote to raise the debt ceiling.
00:26:13.440 I got to tell you, I don't think that makes any sense.
00:26:16.280 I've never said it.
00:26:17.460 And I consider myself very much a fiscal conservative.
00:26:20.800 But 40% of every dollar the federal government spends is borrowed unless you're prepared to slash the federal government budget by 40% tomorrow.
00:26:29.260 And by the way, there is literally no serious person on planet Earth who is prepared to do that and is able to do that.
00:26:35.080 Even if you would with a magic wand do that, there's no way to make that happen.
00:26:39.460 And unless you're prepared to do that, the debt ceiling will have to be raised.
00:26:43.780 My position has always been I'm willing to vote to raise the debt ceiling if we are getting concessions that are reining in the out of control spending that's bankrupting our country.
00:26:56.080 However, in the House, there are a bunch of Republicans who simply say I will never, ever, ever vote to raise the debt ceiling no matter what.
00:27:02.720 It doesn't matter what we get.
00:27:04.020 My answer is no.
00:27:05.840 That is a real problem.
00:27:09.460 Let me make one final principle.
00:27:12.640 Mike Johnson, who's the Speaker of the House.
00:27:15.600 There are a bunch of voices on TV, a bunch of voices on talk radio, a bunch of voices on Twitter saying get rid of Mike Johnson, throw him overboard.
00:27:22.880 I'm going to tell you something that I believe is an absolute fact.
00:27:27.960 Mike Johnson is the single most conservative Speaker of the House that will ever be Speaker of the House in our lifetime.
00:27:34.920 He is undoubtedly the most conservative Speaker of the House we have ever had in our lifetime.
00:27:41.100 It's not even close.
00:27:41.820 It's not even it's not even arguable.
00:27:45.180 And I'm here to tell you, listen, Mike Johnson may lose his job over this.
00:27:49.160 He has a very perilous.
00:27:50.600 It's a tiny majority in the House.
00:27:52.240 You've got a bunch of House members saying I'm going to vote against him.
00:27:56.340 I will tell you this.
00:27:57.680 If Mike Johnson is toppled as Speaker of the House, and he might be.
00:28:00.500 Kevin McCarthy was.
00:28:01.980 Mike Johnson is orders of magnitude more conservative than Kevin McCarthy.
00:28:06.740 It's not even close.
00:28:07.540 If Mike Johnson is toppled as Speaker of the House, we will end up with a Speaker of the House who is much, much more liberal than Mike Johnson.
00:28:20.580 I think that is indisputable.
00:28:23.180 I know Mike well.
00:28:24.880 He's a good man.
00:28:25.960 He's a decent man.
00:28:27.140 He's a strong Christian.
00:28:28.860 He is a man of humility.
00:28:30.420 And everyone on Twitter is saying, but he gave the Democrats concessions.
00:28:34.780 Yes, I want to go back to the first principle I said, count to 218.
00:28:43.020 If Mike Johnson could draft a bill that makes it out of the House with 218 Republicans, he would.
00:28:50.840 I don't believe that is possible.
00:28:53.840 There's certainly nothing to indicate it is possible right now.
00:28:57.000 If you cannot get to 218 with Republicans because a bunch of Republicans say, I will not vote for anything you propose no matter what.
00:29:05.900 Then, Mike Johnson is forced to get Democrat votes.
00:29:11.340 To get Democrat votes, he must give Democrats things they want.
00:29:16.740 And so, I don't know what will happen.
00:29:20.200 I think there's a reasonable chance somehow out of this we get some very short-term CR, a week or two or three.
00:29:29.500 And then, in mid-January, we're back in the middle of this mess again.
00:29:34.140 That's possible.
00:29:34.840 I'll tell you, in the Senate, we're all sitting there.
00:29:36.420 We have no idea what's going to happen.
00:29:38.940 I've got to tell you, I feel for Mike Johnson.
00:29:41.480 I think he is trying with all his might.
00:29:44.300 And I would just encourage you to focus on, listen, I think we need people to be serious.
00:29:50.560 And to do so, you actually need a strategy that can get the votes to prevail.
00:30:05.780 If you can't get the votes, it's easy to tweet about it.
00:30:10.580 I mean, that's from the cheap seats.
00:30:13.420 38 Republicans voted no.
00:30:17.760 174 is not 218.
00:30:19.860 And so, I don't know what the result is here.
00:30:24.860 I think it is chaotic.
00:30:26.900 We will get through this one way or another.
00:30:30.120 But the fundamental structural dynamics, and it's one of the things, look, going forward into the next year,
00:30:35.500 I'm really optimistic about the Trump presidency.
00:30:38.320 I'm really optimistic about a Republican Senate in the House.
00:30:41.260 But I'll tell you, the Senate's going to be a lot easier.
00:30:44.000 We've got 53 Republicans coming in next year.
00:30:46.560 By the way, we still have a Democrat Senate today.
00:30:49.040 So, I haven't even, this whole discussion has ignored the fact that you've got to get Chuck Schumer and the Democrats to agree with whatever you do, which is even harder.
00:30:55.180 But next year, we'll have 53 Republicans in the Senate.
00:30:59.220 53 is a big enough majority that we can lose three votes and still get things done.
00:31:03.780 So, I think the Senate will be able to pass pretty good legislation.
00:31:07.920 Not fantastic, not fantastic, not wonderful, but surprisingly good.
00:31:12.960 The House worries me enormously next year because the majority is so excruciatingly small that if you lose a handful of votes, you cannot get to 218.
00:31:26.100 And so, I think Mike Johnson is trying to work miracles right now.
00:31:31.700 But the single hardest challenge of the next two years in terms of passing good legislation is going to be getting to 218 in the House.
00:31:40.640 And I don't know what the answer is to that.
00:31:42.260 As always, thank you for listening to Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you.
00:31:47.980 Don't forget to download my podcast and you can listen to my podcast every other day you're not listening to Verdict or each day when you listen to Verdict afterwards.
00:31:55.000 I'd love to have you as a listener to, again, the Ben Ferguson podcast.
00:31:58.740 And we will see you back here on Monday morning.
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