00:16:14.120Head on over to Daily Wire to go watch Fauci unmasked.
00:16:16.800I just wanted us to be as shameless on this as you're and my friend Ben Shapiro.
00:16:21.940And if he can brand just about everything on Earth, then surely we can pitch your documentary.
00:16:28.680That's really all I want to do is get one over on Ben.
00:16:31.700So I really I appreciate your help and I appreciate the help of all of the verdict listeners.
00:16:36.440I did want to get your thoughts on this regarding Senator Romney, not not even the mask vote,
00:16:41.600but he got into a tiff with a former Democrat Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard.
00:16:46.920Tulsi Gabbard had published a video about a United States program.
00:16:51.080It's run out of the Pentagon to work with Ukraine on certain biological research facilities, as often happens when this program was exposed or being discussed in the media.
00:17:03.060We were told it was a crazy tinfoil hat conspiracy theory.
00:17:54.020Now she, she popped back and said, you have one of two choices.
00:17:59.960I either respond and refute the facts I'm laying out or immediately apologize and resign from the Senate, which was probably not terribly understated either.
00:18:11.880Um, you know, I will say on this issue, there is some subtlety here in that Tulsi is absolutely correct that there are bio labs in Ukraine, that there are labs that are studying pathogens, that are studying infectious diseases.
00:18:35.300I mean, Ukraine is a first world country.
00:18:36.820Um, you know, every first world country has labs that are bio labs that are studying pathogens.
00:18:42.220You know, Ukraine is entitled to have a CDC, uh, just like France is or the, or the United Kingdom is that that's what, you know, developed countries have as they have medical research into dangerous diseases.
00:18:54.000So of course, Ukraine has labs that are studying infectious diseases that presumably have all sorts of infectious diseases they're studying.
00:19:02.100Um, and the point that, that you and I have made and others have made that when you have labs with infectious diseases, the dangerous pathogens, it's a really bad idea for Russia to be firing missiles and having their tanks shoot at them.
00:19:17.540Just like it's a really dangerous idea for Russia to be firing missiles and having their tanks shoot at nuclear reactors.
00:19:22.780Like nuclear reactors being hit by missiles is just bad.
00:19:31.260If you have a bio lab that is studying dangerous pathogens, dropping a bomb on it is a really bad idea.
00:19:39.040You don't want dangerous diseases to escape.
00:19:41.420There is a slight nuance here in that there are folks online in the Twitter sphere that are, that are referring to these labs as bio weapons labs.
00:19:51.860Now, bio weapons labs are different than bio labs.
00:19:56.080And that one word, it's a small word, but it makes a world of difference.
00:19:59.580Bio weapons labs suggest that they're studying how to use biological weapons to kill people, kill civilians, kill soldiers.
00:20:07.080I have seen no evidence of bio weapons labs in Ukraine.
00:20:12.040That's not to say they don't exist, but if they do, I haven't seen any evidence of it.
00:20:16.420Um, I think that's what Romney was jumping on.
00:20:20.380And, and I think it would have been perfectly fine to respond like a reasonable person and say, well, of course, Ukraine has bio labs.
00:20:28.040Um, and it would be dangerous if Russian missiles or, or, or bombs hit them.
00:20:33.180Um, the evidence at this point is not clear that Ukraine has bio weapons labs.
00:20:38.360And so we should be cautious in terms of what we say.
00:20:41.120That's actually how a rational person would engage.
00:20:44.540But in this hyper politicized shirts and skin tribal, I hate anyone who disagrees.
00:20:52.460Instead, we just scream traitor, traitor, traitor off with their heads.
00:20:55.660And I think that's really, it'd be better if everyone refrained from doing that.
00:21:19.260A lot of the Russian propaganda says the whole reason for the war is because NATO is going eastward.
00:21:24.300Ukraine has said they wanted to join NATO.
00:21:26.540NATO has said, no, the reason for the war is because you, Vladimir Putin, are rolling tanks into Ukraine and you want to recreate the Soviet Union.
00:21:33.580Zelensky himself in Ukraine had been saying that he wants to join NATO.
00:22:03.780It's a treaty that under Article 5 of NATO, an attack on one nation is an attack on all the member nations.
00:22:11.280And it's an obligation, so, for example, if Russia invades France, we have a treaty obligation under NATO, the NATO treaty, to treat the invasion of France as if it were an invasion of the United States.
00:22:26.140And under the most traditional interpretation, that means to respond, defending France militarily.
00:22:33.300That is a big deal to make that obligation.
00:22:36.500And I'm not a big fan of extending treaty obligations to send American servicemen and women into harm's way.
00:22:44.320I think NATO is a very important alliance with the current NATO members.
00:22:50.080You know, I can tell you in 2014, I traveled to Ukraine and I traveled to Poland and Estonia right after the Maiden Square, right after, you know, there was a Russian puppet who was in charge of Ukraine and the Ukrainian people rose up and threw him out.
00:23:10.640And the Ukrainian secret police, like, shot protesters.
00:23:16.260I walked through the Maiden Square, had a 16-year-old girl, a Ukrainian, who was one of the protesters, who walked me through the Maiden Square and said, all right, here's where this friend of mine was shot.
00:23:25.120And you could see the marks of bullets where they had hit.
00:23:34.680But it led to, effectively, a revolution in Ukraine where they ended up with a democratically elected government that is much more pro-America, much more pro-Europe, much more pro-West, rather than a Russia puppet government.
00:23:51.240But on that trip, when I was there in Ukraine, meeting with leaders who wanted to be friends with America, as I said, I also went to Poland and Estonia, both of which are NATO members.
00:24:02.240And I asked Poland, I asked in Estonia, I said, all right, what is your confidence if Russia invades you, invades Poland, invades Estonia?
00:24:13.700What is your confidence that NATO will vigorously act under Article 5 to defend you?
00:24:19.620And I got to tell you, in both nations, the blood drained out of their face.
00:24:23.260And they had little to no confidence, as it is, that NATO would defend them.
00:24:28.940I think they basically believed they'd get a stern press release and maybe some, like, you know, cyber response or something, but not a robust military response.
00:24:41.540In both Poland and Estonia, Russian tanks in the street are not a distant memory.
00:24:47.720People who were alive during the Cold War remember Russian tanks in their street.
00:24:51.860And so it is already, defending NATO is already a serious obligation.
00:25:01.880There are NATO members that feel less than secure.
00:25:04.300And I think expanding it to former Soviet republics is a bridge too far.
00:25:28.040And frankly, before this latest really full-scale invasion by Russia of Ukraine, even when they had just invaded Crimea, had Ukraine joined NATO at that point, presumably that would have triggered Article 5.
00:25:40.640That would have been the fastest route to a world war that we've ever seen.
00:25:44.440And so I entirely agree with your take, and one hopes that this shift in strategy is maybe pointing the way at some point toward a resolution of this conflict and an end to the bloodshed.
00:25:57.640Now, turning domestically for a moment, Joe Biden is trying to blame all of his problems at home on Vladimir Putin.
00:26:06.040He's doing this especially, we talked last episode about gas prices, and he's trying to do this with inflation broadly.