Verdict with Ted Cruz - February 23, 2026


Mexican Cartel Chaos, SCOTUS Tariff Decision & Olympic Gold


Episode Stats


Length

34 minutes

Words per minute

176.83171

Word count

6,164

Sentence count

491

Harmful content

Misogyny

4

sentences flagged

Hate speech

7

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) and Sen. Ben Fergus (D-Massachusetts) discuss the killing of a Mexican Cartel leader, the Supreme Court ruling striking down President Trump's tariffs, and the Olympic Gold Medalists.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.720 Guaranteed human.
00:00:05.380 Welcome.
00:00:05.940 It is Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz.
00:00:07.640 Ben Ferguson with you as well.
00:00:09.260 Senator, we totally changed places.
00:00:11.600 You're in Houston.
00:00:12.360 That's where I usually am.
00:00:13.320 I'm in D.C. where you usually are.
00:00:15.640 And this is where we are today,
00:00:17.380 getting ready to head of the State of the Union.
00:00:19.000 It's going to be a fun show.
00:00:20.080 We've got a lot to talk about,
00:00:21.220 including a killing of a cartel leader in Mexico.
00:00:25.560 Well, violence has broken out in Mexico.
00:00:27.800 Chaos is unfolding right now.
00:00:29.720 You and I are recording this on Sunday afternoon.
00:00:32.120 As we're recording it,
00:00:33.720 a major Mexican cartel leader was taken out
00:00:36.600 by the Mexican government, the Mexican army.
00:00:39.120 The reaction has been violence,
00:00:40.860 serious violence that is escalating.
00:00:43.360 Some of it is reportedly targeting American tourists.
00:00:46.060 We're going to break down what happens and what it means.
00:00:49.420 We're also going to talk about the major Supreme Court decision
00:00:52.100 that came down this week.
00:00:53.740 The Supreme Court struck down President Trump's use of tariffs,
00:00:57.780 the centerpiece of his economic policy abroad.
00:01:01.240 The Supreme Court said that the statute he used to impose those tariffs,
00:01:05.240 a statute called IEPA, does not give him the authority to do so.
00:01:09.340 We're going to explain what that decision was all about,
00:01:12.160 what the court held, and in particular, what happens next.
00:01:14.620 What does this mean?
00:01:15.520 Does this mean Trump can't use tariffs?
00:01:17.480 Does it mean nothing changes?
00:01:19.000 We're going to break it down and give you everything you need to know
00:01:21.360 to understand this topic.
00:01:22.500 And finally, we're going to celebrate the Olympics,
00:01:25.220 a victory in men's hockey, USA, USA,
00:01:28.520 and we're going to highlight a couple of the extraordinary athletes
00:01:31.920 who represented America and brought home the gold.
00:01:35.100 All of that's on today's podcast.
00:01:36.780 Yeah, Hockey American Canada game,
00:01:38.400 we've got to talk about that one as well.
00:01:39.960 It was really, really fun.
00:01:41.500 I want to just talk to you for a moment, though,
00:01:43.320 about what's happening in Israel right now
00:01:45.280 and the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews,
00:01:48.460 what they are doing to help people in Israel,
00:01:50.420 is truly unbelievable.
00:01:51.680 Israel is a very hot topic right now,
00:01:55.180 and with so many opinions and emotions surrounding it,
00:01:58.040 it can feel hard to know where to start.
00:02:00.280 The Bible tells us,
00:02:01.720 I will bless those who bless you.
00:02:04.260 That isn't just a comforting promise.
00:02:06.580 It's a clear calling from God.
00:02:08.480 And today, with anti-Semitism rising around the world,
00:02:11.740 that calling is more urgent than ever.
00:02:14.120 At a time when Jewish communities are experiencing more hostility,
00:02:17.420 more threats, and more violence than ever,
00:02:20.100 Christians have a powerful opportunity to respond with God's love to say,
00:02:24.420 you are not alone.
00:02:26.600 When Christians choose to bless Israel, 0.98
00:02:28.720 we're not entering a political issue.
00:02:30.720 We're honoring the root of our faith and standing against hatred.
00:02:35.160 Supporting Israel is more than a belief.
00:02:37.520 It's a biblical mandate.
00:02:38.740 And by partnering with the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews,
00:02:43.060 you can push back against darkness and be a light to God's people.
00:02:47.680 Learn how you can bless Israel and be blessed in return.
00:02:51.260 Visit ifcj.org today.
00:02:54.340 That's ifcj.org today.
00:02:56.560 Be a blessing.
00:02:57.680 Live in the world.
00:02:58.680 Answer the call.
00:02:59.360 All right, Senator.
00:03:00.680 So right before we started recording,
00:03:03.560 we get this big news.
00:03:04.980 And that is that the government in Mexico took out the leader of one of these cartels.
00:03:11.240 There are several different cartel leaders,
00:03:13.100 depending on which region you're in in Mexico.
00:03:15.680 This was a significant one.
00:03:17.080 There was a large bounty on this individual's head by the U.S. government as well.
00:03:20.560 And now we're seeing what many were fearful of that is,
00:03:23.820 and this is part of what the cartels do.
00:03:25.520 You come after us, we'll go after the economy and tourism,
00:03:29.360 and that's the biggest concern for so many Americans that are down there.
00:03:31.980 Spring break has started as well.
00:03:33.720 Yeah.
00:03:34.520 So here's the story of the New York Times about what has happened.
00:03:37.380 Mexican forces killed nation's most wanted cartel boss.
00:03:40.700 Nemesio Oseguera Cervantes, known as El Mencho,
00:03:44.680 was the head of the Jalisco New Generation Cartel 0.98
00:03:47.040 and widely regarded as one of the country's most violent criminal figures.
00:03:50.800 The Mexican government said it killed the nation's most wanted cartel boss on Sunday,
00:03:54.760 a major victory in its new offensive against the country's criminal groups,
00:03:58.480 and a move that could help reduce pressure from President Trump,
00:04:01.520 who has been threatening strikes in Mexico.
00:04:04.140 Nemesio Oseguera Cervantes, known as El Mencho,
00:04:07.080 was the longtime leader of one of Mexico's most powerful cartels,
00:04:11.060 the Jalisco New Generation Cartel,
00:04:13.200 and he was widely regarded as one of the country's most violent criminal figures.
00:04:17.600 He presided over a criminal enterprise that expanded rapidly over the past decade,
00:04:21.860 producing and selling drugs and extorting local businesses.
00:04:25.740 He also built a reputation for brazen attacks on security forces
00:04:29.620 and terrorizing communities across the country.
00:04:33.500 Mexican security forces led an operation Sunday to capture Mr. Oseguera
00:04:37.660 in Tapalpa, a town of about 20,000 in the western coastal state of Jalisco,
00:04:43.760 where his cartel was founded and based, the Mexican government said.
00:04:47.260 At least seven cartel members were killed during the operation.
00:04:51.640 Mr. Oseguera and two other cartel operatives were seriously injured in the operation
00:04:56.280 and died while in transport to Mexico City for medical attention,
00:05:00.220 according to the Mexican government.
00:05:02.020 Mr. Oseguera's killing set off a swift outbreak of violence across Mexico.
00:05:07.500 In at least six states, including Jalisco,
00:05:10.700 residents and the local authorities reported that burning vehicles
00:05:13.720 were blocking streets, a common practice by drug cartels.
00:05:18.120 The state of Jalisco said it had suspended public transportation in some areas
00:05:22.100 and warned hotels to instruct their guests to remain inside.
00:05:27.120 The state of Nayarit canceled classes on Monday.
00:05:30.100 The U.S. government warned its citizens to shelter in place
00:05:33.960 until further notice in parts of five states,
00:05:37.220 Jalisco, Tamaulipas, Mioccan, Guero and Nuevo León.
00:05:42.460 Various airlines issued travel advisories or halted flights.
00:05:47.160 Some of the violence occurred in Guadalajara, Jalisco's capital,
00:05:50.080 a hub of 1.4 million people that is a host city for this year's World Cup.
00:05:56.060 Panic broke out at Guadalajara International Airport on Sunday,
00:05:59.840 with videos posted on social media showing airport staff and travelers fleeing the building.
00:06:06.320 But the airport and Mexican federal government said that the airport was operating as normal
00:06:10.380 and there was no risk to flyers.
00:06:12.460 In the northern border city of Reynosa, which is located right across the river from McAllen, Texas,
00:06:19.060 main roads and entrances were blocked with burning vehicles, according to local media reports.
00:06:25.100 Vanda Felbab Brown, an expert on non-state armed groups at the Brookings Institute,
00:06:29.280 said the significance of Mr. Osaguerra's killing rivaled that of the capture of Sinaloa cartel leader Joaquin Guzman Loera,
00:06:38.660 known as El Chapo, in 2016, or of his former partner Ismael Zambara-Garcia, known as El Mayo, in 2024.
00:06:47.540 Look, this is rapidly unfolding.
00:06:52.060 There are reports of cartels targeting American citizens, going after them.
00:06:58.380 It's a dangerous time.
00:07:00.060 This could change in the hours and days ahead.
00:07:03.100 I'm certainly glad that a major cartel leader who has been smuggling drugs into the United States has been responsible for killing Americans is no longer with us.
00:07:13.900 But but it makes it very dangerous for the people of Mexico and potentially very dangerous for Americans as well.
00:07:20.680 You know, you and I have talked about this and the concern, obviously, that that you and I both have is that the that the Mexico is being run by these cartels.
00:07:30.520 We know that. And that's been one of the things that Donald Trump has been talking about is like, look,
00:07:36.240 you guys are killing Americans with the amount of drugs coming across your border, the fentanyl and other things.
00:07:41.180 We also know about the open border just from human smuggling and human trafficking and sex trafficking and child sex trafficking.
00:07:46.080 Those combined. And the president made it clear to Mexico, you better act or we will act the same way that we acted.
00:07:53.480 And we weren't bluffing in Venezuela, taking out a narco terrorist there. 0.96
00:07:58.000 This is clearly, I think, Mexico's government signaling that we heard you and probably more so since what we they witnessed in Venezuela.
00:08:06.100 And they're saying we would rather choose who we take out than you guys start doing it.
00:08:10.100 Is that a fair assessment?
00:08:11.680 I think that's a very fair assessment.
00:08:13.520 As you'll recall, in August of last year, I went down to Mexico.
00:08:17.440 I did a trip to to El Salvador and Panama and Mexico, and I met with senior officials in the Mexican government.
00:08:24.160 And the message I conveyed to them is that they needed to get serious fighting the cartels to stop the drug trafficking into America, to stop the human trafficking into America.
00:08:32.600 And the message I conveyed is if you don't get serious, President Trump is going to.
00:08:38.320 And this was before the Maduro raid.
00:08:40.520 But but but the Maduro raid was not a surprise in that it was clear the president was going to do what is necessary to keep America safe.
00:08:48.060 And my message and the Mexican leaders did not like that when I conveyed that message.
00:08:53.100 I said, look, we're not going to let you just sit there and turn a blind eye while these transnational criminal organizations flood poisons into America and kill Americans. 0.77
00:09:05.540 And while they traffic in human beings and assault and sexually assault little children, we're not simply going to sit by and say, that's OK.
00:09:13.780 This is not the Biden administration.
00:09:15.700 These are not Democrats who are going to say we have no problem with thousands of children being molested by by human traffickers because it furthers our political agenda to get more people in America who will vote for Democrats.
00:09:27.660 That is not what this administration is doing.
00:09:30.440 And you and I talked about it in the wake of the Maduro arrest.
00:09:35.260 I said, listen, this has changed the geopolitical power structure throughout Latin America.
00:09:40.880 Every dictator in Latin America at 3 a.m. on January 3rd, they change their shorts.
00:09:47.820 Yeah.
00:09:47.980 The leadership, the communist leadership in Cuba and Nicaragua, those guys are terrified.
00:09:53.720 In Colombia, we saw Petro immediately calling and saying,
00:09:57.160 Mr. President, I'm not I'm not resisting you at all.
00:09:59.560 Like we saw the immediate reaction in Colombia.
00:10:02.280 And look, I emphasized in nations like Brazil and Mexico, Brazil and Mexico stand on very different footing than a Cuba or a Nicaragua or even a Colombia.
00:10:12.360 But they are headed by leftists who have been vocally anti-American.
00:10:17.380 And I will say Mexico has pivoted sharply.
00:10:20.800 And this is a real manifestation of that.
00:10:23.960 And Ben, it's worth not losing sight of the fact.
00:10:26.920 You might say, OK, well, why target these narco terrorists? 0.92
00:10:30.380 Why do this?
00:10:31.560 Yeah.
00:10:32.440 One of the most compelling stats from the last year is that murder rates nationally have dropped more than 20 percent nationwide.
00:10:42.980 It's nationwide.
00:10:43.980 It's nationwide.
00:10:44.660 Drug overdose rates nationwide have dropped more than 20 percent.
00:10:52.100 There are literally this is not exaggeration.
00:10:54.660 There are literally thousands of Americans who are alive today because Trump was reelected and Republicans were put in charge of Congress.
00:11:03.160 If we had kept the Democrat open borders going, there would be thousands more Americans dead from murder and other violent crime and from drug overdoses.
00:11:14.060 And I got to tell you, Ben, did you happen to read front page story in the Houston Chronicle a couple of weeks ago?
00:11:20.480 Which one?
00:11:20.840 On the murder rates.
00:11:22.540 Yes.
00:11:22.840 No, I did.
00:11:23.500 And what's interesting about where you're going with this is most police departments and local governments celebrate a three percent drop in violent crime.
00:11:32.240 That's like worth having a press conference over for you to say, look at this trend.
00:11:36.600 And now you look at what you mentioned nationwide and go back to I know you're going with the story, but like these are numbers that traditionally would take three, four, five, six, seven years of every year doubling down to get the numbers down as fast as they've under Trump administration.
00:11:51.080 It is it's remarkable.
00:11:53.200 Well, it's about two, three weeks ago.
00:11:55.400 Houston Chronicle front page, top of the fold banner headline murder rate in Houston, Texas drops 18 percent.
00:12:02.720 Yeah.
00:12:02.920 You and I you and I both live in Houston.
00:12:04.680 That's that's good news.
00:12:05.600 Our families are in Houston.
00:12:07.240 Heidi handed me this story on a newspaper on an airplane, and she did it because she knew it would piss me off.
00:12:15.900 That's that is it.
00:12:16.800 That's when you have a good wife. 1.00
00:12:18.460 When everyone your wife would never do that to you, right? 0.99
00:12:20.820 No, they never poke the bear.
00:12:22.380 Yeah.
00:12:22.540 Keep going.
00:12:23.500 So I read the article and the article says the murder rate has dropped 18 percent.
00:12:28.040 Nobody can figure out why it's completely baffling.
00:12:31.080 Experts are confused.
00:12:32.140 There is no possible cause.
00:12:34.400 It just magically unicorns flew from the sky.
00:12:38.800 They spread pixie dust and the murder rates fell 18 percent.
00:12:42.080 And it did not occur to the reporter, to these, quote, experts who are all left wing knuckleheads that may be arresting and deporting thousands upon thousands of murderers and rapists and gang bangers who are illegal immigrants.
00:12:57.300 Maybe if there are fewer murderers, there will be fewer murders.
00:13:01.900 This is not subtle or complex public policy.
00:13:05.140 And yet the Houston Chronicle, this is is is is completely indecipherable.
00:13:11.620 You know, I'm I've been in D.C. right now.
00:13:13.180 You're coming back up here, obviously, for the State of the Union.
00:13:15.380 And I'm up here for literally meetings on the State of the Union.
00:13:18.800 And one of the things that was asked I was earlier today, what should the president focus on?
00:13:24.320 What are the issues?
00:13:25.320 This is obviously a curveball.
00:13:27.240 And this is what the riders are going to be dealing with right now.
00:13:29.740 But what would your advice be to the president on should this make it in the State of the Union?
00:13:34.120 And should you say to Mexico, hey, you're headed in the right direction, but we're not finished yet.
00:13:38.800 Like it's time to keep going.
00:13:40.700 Or is this where you let them take the lead?
00:13:42.980 I'm I'm very much torn on this one.
00:13:45.040 I think this is American foreign policy.
00:13:46.660 First, you say, look, this is step in the right direction.
00:13:48.700 But let's be clear.
00:13:49.640 There's several other leaders of other cartels in Mexico that are still active right now.
00:13:55.000 Listen, I very much agree with President Trump and his focus on America first.
00:13:59.140 I spoke with the president just a few days ago, spent about 30 minutes on the phone with him.
00:14:03.420 And we actually talked about it before this drug dealer was was killed.
00:14:07.120 But but I talked to him about I said, look, let me encourage you in the administration.
00:14:11.560 Focus more on the messaging about what you and I just talked about, about the murder rate plummeting, the drug overdose deaths plummeting.
00:14:20.680 That is a big deal.
00:14:22.100 And so I think it's perfectly appropriate and would be fitting to mention this this drug dealer being killed.
00:14:28.360 But I wouldn't make the focus Mexico.
00:14:30.120 I wouldn't make the focus, by the way, Venezuela or any other country.
00:14:34.500 What I would make the focus is America, that that by standing up to narco terrorists, by standing up to people who are killing Americans, fewer Americans are dying. 0.89
00:14:44.820 I think the entire speech on Tuesday should be all about how people's lives are materially better because of the policies President Trump has put in place and a Republican Congress has put in place.
00:14:57.720 And I'd like to see crime and law and order as a major, major theme of the address.
00:15:02.440 Final question for you.
00:15:04.200 You mentioned earlier that there's a shelter in place.
00:15:07.100 Your office, I'm sure, is going to get a lot of phone calls on Monday.
00:15:10.500 If I was down in Mexico for spring break right now, I'd be calling as well.
00:15:15.040 What if you have family down there and or you're down there and you're listening to this and you want to just who do you talk to?
00:15:20.500 Who do you get in touch with?
00:15:21.620 What do you do and what do you tell your family to do when it comes to contacting?
00:15:25.120 Do you contact Congress senators or who do you call?
00:15:27.960 You know, I would go to the State Department, the State Department website.
00:15:31.340 They put out country notices.
00:15:32.760 They have information and they have information typically broken down by the particular region, by the state within Mexico.
00:15:39.840 There is no doubt that Mexico right now, it is a very dangerous place, that tragically the cartel violence has gotten really bad.
00:15:48.140 Now, Ben, you know I'm a fan of Mexico.
00:15:50.320 I happen to like Cancun.
00:15:52.260 Yeah.
00:15:53.020 That may – a couple people may have noticed that.
00:15:55.500 Look, I think Mexico is a beautiful country.
00:15:59.300 Texas and Mexico have a long history that is intertwined.
00:16:04.320 And what has happened to Mexico in recent years with the cartel violence is tragic.
00:16:09.760 That being said, if you're thinking of going to Mexico for spring break, I would be very cautious.
00:16:15.600 I would read the State Department website closely.
00:16:17.940 I would read news reports.
00:16:19.100 We don't know how this is going to go.
00:16:21.880 If it escalates, if we see the cartels targeting American tourists at a significant level, I would think very carefully about that.
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00:17:43.680 All right.
00:17:44.220 I want to move on to another issue.
00:17:46.180 And we made predictions on this show.
00:17:48.260 Actually, this is why I should say you made predictions on this show.
00:17:50.780 Separate myself from them.
00:17:52.920 I was...
00:17:53.660 Well, look at this.
00:17:54.100 Who's we?
00:17:54.860 Ben throwing me overboard so fast.
00:17:57.660 Senator, you made a prediction about the Supreme Court on tariffs.
00:18:00.580 It was actually really funny this morning.
00:18:02.520 I was doing a Fox News Sunday.
00:18:04.160 Shannon Bremont came to me.
00:18:04.880 She goes, I listened to y'all's show when you were making your predictions because 99% of the time, Ted's right on the Supreme Court.
00:18:11.280 And he made a prediction.
00:18:12.200 He thought it was going to go the president's way on these.
00:18:14.120 It didn't.
00:18:15.100 But there was also something interesting in there.
00:18:17.400 Brett Kavanaugh wrote basically in there, and I found this incredibly interesting, that, hey, what we're saying you did, you can't necessarily do it that way.
00:18:25.980 However, here is a way you can do it.
00:18:28.440 It reminded me almost of, like, Obamacare, when they're like, well, if you do it this way, then you can get away with it.
00:18:34.260 But the way you're doing it, don't keep doing it that way.
00:18:36.920 Do it this other way.
00:18:37.840 It was like a roadmap for him to still have tariffs, still have the power that the presidency needs to do this.
00:18:42.660 And you saw the president jump all over that with a 10% saying, this ain't going away.
00:18:47.020 I don't know if this is as big of a defeat as Democrats and media are trying to make it out to be.
00:18:51.600 And the president's instant response, I think, proves he still has a ton of power.
00:18:56.700 Well, listen, I'm going to start by eating crow.
00:19:00.500 I did make a prediction on this podcast, and I make a lot of predictions on this podcast.
00:19:05.100 And we've never tallied the number, but I think we're north of 80% and maybe even north of 90% of being right in the predictions.
00:19:11.020 I'm going to give you credit, so it's above 90, because I make sure I give you a hard time when you're wrong, and that's not very often.
00:19:15.700 And so this is on that sheet, but, you know, yeah.
00:19:18.440 And by the way, we don't make small and mild predictions.
00:19:23.020 I mean, we make bold and aggressive predictions.
00:19:26.500 And in 2024—
00:19:27.700 Can we just remind people of the biggest one?
00:19:28.520 Yeah, Joe Biden.
00:19:29.520 Let's just talk about it.
00:19:30.700 I predicted that Joe Biden would not be the nominee a year before it happened and said they are going to replace him.
00:19:38.940 He is not going to be on the ballot in November.
00:19:41.100 And the corporate media made fun of me like crazy for that prediction.
00:19:46.460 Of course, it was exactly right.
00:19:47.720 We'd made a lot of predictions.
00:19:49.300 We broke down in March and April of the beginning of COVID.
00:19:53.780 I laid out the evidence that the COVID virus escaped from a Chinese government lab right at the beginning. 0.67
00:20:00.820 And the predictions that we laid out there, the evidence we laid out there was square on right.
00:20:06.040 So I made a prediction that the Supreme Court 5-4 would uphold the president's use of tariffs.
00:20:12.340 That prediction proved false.
00:20:14.360 What actually happened is 6-3, the court struck it down.
00:20:18.000 I also predicted that John Roberts would write the majority opinion.
00:20:21.360 I guess that did prove technically accurate, but he wrote the majority opinion going the other way.
00:20:27.260 Here's why I thought the court was going to uphold the president's tariffs.
00:20:31.000 And I said there are massive reliance interests.
00:20:33.980 There have been hundreds of billions of dollars of tariffs collected, and the court is reluctant to dramatically upset the status quo.
00:20:42.700 And I did say if the court were deciding this issue a year ago, right at the beginning of the Trump administration, I said I think they'd come out the other way.
00:20:51.780 But after a year plus, after this being central to the economic and foreign policy agenda of the president, I thought the court would not struck it down.
00:21:01.520 That proved wrong, but at the end of the day, I don't think it matters a whole lot.
00:21:08.060 Let's cut to the conclusion.
00:21:10.120 I don't think the consequences of this decision are going to be all that much.
00:21:13.680 What the court decided narrowly is that one particular statute, IEPA, does not give the president the authority to impose tariffs.
00:21:24.880 Now, mind you, IEPA gives the president the authority to, quote, regulate importations.
00:21:31.080 Yeah.
00:21:31.180 And so the majority opinion concluded the president can ban an import from a country, can say we will import zero German cars into America.
00:21:43.320 He could do that, but he can't say we're going to charge a dollar for each one of those German cars.
00:21:48.560 Yep.
00:21:49.500 That is a pretty loopy conclusion.
00:21:51.560 And I got to say the dissents, Justice Kavanaugh wrote the lead dissent.
00:21:56.100 Justice Thomas wrote an excellent dissent.
00:21:57.900 I think the dissents get the much better of the argument that the words that Congress put in the IEPA statute regulate importation.
00:22:07.080 And Justice Thomas had an originalist dissent where he goes through in the foreign policy area in particular, the ability to import goods from other countries was never viewed as a right.
00:22:19.200 It was a privilege the government allowed you to do.
00:22:21.380 And in fact, tariffs were a major tool government used to regulate importation from other countries.
00:22:27.460 So I think the majority decision is wrong.
00:22:31.040 But here's the thing that matters.
00:22:33.940 There are so many other statutes that allow the president to impose tariffs that I think we will see essentially the same regime.
00:22:42.580 It's going to be a little more complicated.
00:22:43.740 He's going to have to do a little bit more work.
00:22:45.300 It's going to require some more legal proceedings.
00:22:47.340 But I think you're going to see him.
00:22:48.540 And we saw immediately the president announced a 10 percent tariff on every country.
00:22:53.260 He then upped that to 15 percent.
00:22:55.920 But I think at the end of the day, the president will continue to use tariffs as a critical part of his foreign policy.
00:23:03.080 And I hope – and we've talked about this on Verdict before – I hope that he uses tariffs as leverage to open up foreign markets.
00:23:10.980 I don't want a world where we have high tariffs for everyone.
00:23:13.180 But I do think tariffs are very powerful leverage.
00:23:17.540 And I think the president has ample authority to continue using them.
00:23:20.940 You know, it's interesting about this.
00:23:22.140 When it happened, there was two people that were really celebrating – two groups, I should say.
00:23:26.620 The Democratic Party and China.
00:23:28.940 And China was really celebrating this.
00:23:32.480 And then they were talking about buying soybean crops from other countries instead of America.
00:23:36.180 And that was like one of the big things that really blew up in the media and on social media.
00:23:41.280 And then you have the same excitement from the Chinese Communist Party as you did from the Democratic Party.
00:23:46.720 That tells me an awful lot about this tariff war issue.
00:23:51.700 This is just to Democrats, not about what's best for America, not about us having better trade deals, not about saving American jobs or American manufacturing, protecting that, or bringing jobs back to this country in manufacturing and bringing back American businesses to our soil.
00:24:07.500 They just want Donald Trump to lose.
00:24:09.500 And they're on the same team with China on this one.
00:24:11.960 Yeah, look, that's where Democrats are. 1.00
00:24:13.900 That's where much of the media is.
00:24:15.220 Let me walk through two things.
00:24:17.180 Number one, there's going to be some chaos.
00:24:19.160 One of the reasons I didn't think the court would do what they did is you've got hundreds of billions of dollars of tariffs that's going to be collected.
00:24:26.300 There's going to be massive litigation.
00:24:27.840 Everyone that's paid the tariffs is going to look at, do I go back?
00:24:30.720 Do I sue?
00:24:31.280 Do I try to collect it?
00:24:32.920 It's going to vary in terms of whether they filed a timely protest to the tariffs.
00:24:38.560 I think some of those tariffs, the litigation result is going to be no.
00:24:42.740 You can't get it back because you didn't timely protest it.
00:24:46.620 Some of the people who paid tariffs will have timely protested it.
00:24:50.400 And so there's a very good chance this is going to cost American taxpayers billions of dollars, maybe even tens of billions of dollars or more.
00:24:57.680 That litigation chaos will unfold for years.
00:25:01.560 I didn't think the court would do that.
00:25:03.180 But in terms of the president's ability to do this, so let me walk through some of the different statutes that are available.
00:25:09.760 There is, number one, section 338 of the Tariff Act of 1930.
00:25:14.020 That's actually the Smoot-Hawley Act, which authorizes the president to impose tariffs of up to 50 percent on imports from any country that, quote, discriminates against U.S. businesses.
00:25:26.860 The statute is vague, and it is short, and no president has used this authority.
00:25:33.380 So it's uncharted area, but it remains on the statute book.
00:25:36.440 So that's one area.
00:25:38.040 Another area, which is where the president went pretty much immediately, is section 122 of the Trade Act of 1974.
00:25:48.580 The section 122 gives the president the power to impose duties of up to 15 percent for up to 150 days in order to address, quote, large and serious balance of payments deficits.
00:26:02.580 Congress has to vote to extend them past the 150-day limit or else the duties expire, but the president is able to reissue them on expiration.
00:26:12.500 This is what the president used as a result immediately to impose the 15 percent tariff.
00:26:21.060 So that's one avenue.
00:26:23.340 And then there are a couple of others.
00:26:25.140 Section 301 of the Trade Act of 1974 authorizes the U.S. trade representative to investigate and act upon results of an investigation revealing unfair trade practices.
00:26:37.860 Section 301 has been used quite a bit.
00:26:40.140 In 2024, the Biden administration opened three investigations under Section 301 and determined that the countries had violated the provisions there.
00:26:55.480 That's also what, in Trump's second administration, U.S. trade representative's office has opened a 301 investigation into Brazil and China, and they're considering one for Korea.
00:27:06.540 So Section 301 takes an investigation.
00:27:09.760 It's a little slower, but it gives more potent tariff authority.
00:27:13.300 There is also Section 232 of the Trade Expansion Act of 1962, and that allows the president to impose restrictions on goods and imports.
00:27:24.360 And following an investigation, if it's found that the imports, quote, threatened to impair U.S. national security.
00:27:34.360 So Trump has used that for steel imports and aluminum imports.
00:27:38.700 In 2025, he expanded steel and aluminum tariffs, increasing the aluminum rate to 25 percent, eliminating all country exemptions.
00:27:47.320 To date, the Trump administration has launched 12 different Section 232 investigations, concluded five.
00:27:56.660 And then there's finally Section 201 of the Trade Act of 1974, which permits temporary safeguard tariffs to protect domestic industries from serious injury caused by import surges.
00:28:11.240 Trump has used Section 201 to put tariffs on solar cells, on modules, and in residential washing machines.
00:28:18.940 Look, the long and short of it, you guys don't need to memorize all those different section numbers.
00:28:23.860 The point is there are a bunch of different federal laws that give the president a bunch of authority to impose tariffs.
00:28:32.240 The lawyers and the administration will work a little bit harder, as Justice Kavanaugh said in dissent.
00:28:38.460 At the end of the day, the Supreme Court said, well, you check the wrong box and you pick the wrong statute, so these tariffs don't apply.
00:28:45.660 But the bottom line is going to be the president's going to be able to get there using other means.
00:28:50.440 Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see how the president also responds on the State of the Union to this.
00:28:54.940 I have a feeling it's going to be pretty blunt.
00:28:56.320 I love when they ask, what do you say, Justice is still invited?
00:28:59.960 He goes, yes, but barely, which kind of made me laugh.
00:29:02.700 It's like, yeah, that's never a dull moment with Donald Trump on this stuff.
00:29:06.120 I have a feeling it's going to be a very fun State of the Union to watch.
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00:29:40.520 All right, Catherine, finally, we get to end on a really, really fun note.
00:29:44.620 The hockey game and the Olympics, like America versus Canada.
00:29:49.420 I love how sports brings everybody together.
00:29:52.760 I'm sitting there in the green room about to get ready to do Fox News Sunday.
00:29:56.840 Treasury Secretary Besant comes in.
00:29:58.840 We're all watching the game as we're trying to go on TV to talk politics because it was amazing.
00:30:03.560 And then it went to overtime.
00:30:05.260 And I, like, rush back to where I'm staying to watch the end of the game.
00:30:08.220 America wins in overtime.
00:30:10.360 It was like the best Sunday morning of sports.
00:30:12.940 It was just an America beating Canada in hockey.
00:30:15.560 We always, it just takes you back to the Miracle on Ice.
00:30:18.360 What a fun way to wrap up the Olympics.
00:30:21.260 Look, it was 46 years to the day after the Miracle on Ice, where 1980, we won that game.
00:30:29.000 And this time, it was USA and Canada.
00:30:32.900 And listen, Canada is the powerhouse in hockey.
00:30:36.080 And for America to win, we had, our women hockey players had beaten Canada in the finals.
00:30:42.760 So we'd already taken home the gold in women's hockey.
00:30:45.980 Justin Trudeau, when he was Prime Minister of Canada, famously said, you can't have our sport.
00:30:51.600 Well, sorry, Justin.
00:30:53.600 Turned out that's not quite right.
00:30:55.520 And it was just, it's a spectacular victory.
00:30:58.780 And I want to say, the hockey players, both the men's and women's hockey players, they loved America.
00:31:06.940 They draped themselves in the flag.
00:31:09.060 They didn't engage in the sort of petulant.
00:31:11.060 They're playing for America, yeah.
00:31:12.140 They are playing for the country in a way that just makes you proud.
00:31:16.120 That's what you want to see our athletes, like, standing up for our country, not using it for whatever their particular political agenda is for the moment.
00:31:24.160 But just proud to be an American.
00:31:26.520 And I want you to listen to Jack Hughes, who scored the game-winning goal in overtime.
00:31:33.940 Listen to him right after the game.
00:31:35.900 This is all about our country right now.
00:31:38.100 I love the USA.
00:31:39.720 I love my teammates.
00:31:41.760 It's unbelievable.
00:31:42.820 The USA Hockey Brotherhood is so strong.
00:31:45.980 And we have so much support from next players.
00:31:48.520 And I'm so proud to be American today.
00:31:50.620 This was such an incredible game.
00:31:54.160 The grind out.
00:31:54.960 I mean, you're bleeding right through it just looking at you right now.
00:31:57.860 Can you just talk about how difficult this gold medal was to win?
00:32:01.540 Unbelievable game by Hellebuck.
00:32:03.360 He was our best player tonight by a mile.
00:32:05.800 Unbelievable game.
00:32:07.220 Unreal game by our team.
00:32:09.020 That's just a ballsy, gutsy win.
00:32:11.120 That's American hockey right there.
00:32:12.980 That's a great Canadian team.
00:32:14.460 But we're USA.
00:32:15.840 We're so proud to be Americans.
00:32:17.580 Tonight was all for the country.
00:32:18.940 What does this gold medal mean to USA Hockey?
00:32:21.780 It's everything.
00:32:22.300 Like I said, the USA Hockey Brotherhood means so much.
00:32:25.380 Look at these guys.
00:32:26.500 We're such a team.
00:32:27.740 We've been there for two weeks.
00:32:29.620 We're such a team.
00:32:31.040 The USA Hockey Brotherhood is so strong.
00:32:33.240 And we're so proud to win for our country.
00:32:35.340 Amen.
00:32:36.260 Amen.
00:32:37.180 Amen.
00:32:38.280 Hallelujah.
00:32:39.160 Look, look.
00:32:39.600 That's just awesome.
00:32:41.280 By the way, I'm sure you've seen, Ben, the picture of him with the flag draped over and
00:32:47.340 his front teeth kicked in and all bloody, that is going to be, that may be the iconic picture
00:32:54.680 of this Olympics.
00:32:55.800 That's an old lion on the mound.
00:32:57.700 Like when he gets charged the mound and he's pounding the guy.
00:33:00.340 Like that's like, that's, that is the iconic picture.
00:33:03.120 It also is just what you want.
00:33:04.580 Like to see them loving playing for their country, so proud of their country.
00:33:09.760 I mean, they couldn't contain it.
00:33:11.580 Their faces when they were raising the American flag, playing the national anthem, like they
00:33:16.400 were just beaming with American pride.
00:33:18.800 It's why I love the Olympics and, and, and to win the way they won in overtime, uh, you
00:33:24.860 know, against, you know, Trudeau's boys is how I saw it described on X earlier.
00:33:29.840 And I was like, that's awesome.
00:33:31.340 God bless America.
00:33:32.500 Like I'm so proud to be an American and watch them do this.
00:33:35.660 Yeah.
00:33:35.800 And, and I gotta say, look, I'm, I'm not a hockey fan.
00:33:38.640 I'm a Houston guy.
00:33:39.600 We don't, we don't have ice down here.
00:33:41.240 Like I'm, I'm a hoops fan and a football fan and, and, and, and, and a baseball fan, but,
00:33:46.820 but hockey is not my thing.
00:33:48.000 But I, you know, I went and looked up Jack Hughes to get a little of his background.
00:33:51.200 And it's interesting.
00:33:52.240 He was, uh, he plays for the New Jersey Devils, plays in the NHL, uh, and he was born in Orlando,
00:33:59.280 Florida.
00:33:59.780 Now he grew up in Toronto.
00:34:01.260 So he lived in Canada for a number of years.
00:34:03.120 And then he relocated his family to Michigan for high school.
00:34:06.420 Uh, and he was the number one pick in the NHL draft in 2019.
00:34:12.080 Uh, he's an all-star now.
00:34:13.480 And I gotta say, he is a forever American in my book with this victory.
00:34:18.680 He has immortalized himself in history.
00:34:21.400 And, and so I just want to close today's pod by saying three things, USA, USA, USA.
00:34:29.920 Amen to that.
00:34:30.680 Don't forget, we do this podcast Monday, Wednesday, Friday, hit that subscribe or auto download
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00:34:44.140 And the center, I will see you back here after the say of the union on Wednesday morning.
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