Verdict with Ted Cruz - January 23, 2026


Murder Rate Plummets-Trump Literally Saving Lives plus Disastrous Jack Smith Testimony


Episode Stats

Length

36 minutes

Words per Minute

167.07828

Word Count

6,021

Sentence Count

335

Misogynist Sentences

7

Hate Speech Sentences

2


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.640 Guaranteed human.
00:00:06.080 Welcome. It is Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you.
00:00:09.780 And it's so nice to have you with us, especially if you are listening on the radio around the country.
00:00:13.680 We've got a lot to discuss that happened this last week, including some incredible crime stats
00:00:19.100 that the media is not connecting back to the policies of the Trump administration.
00:00:25.500 Well, we have a big show today.
00:00:27.060 We start with the numbers that were just released that show murder rates in the United States dropped more than 20%.
00:00:34.360 That is on top of data that just came out that show drug overdose deaths dropped more than 20%,
00:00:41.920 both of these this year compared to last year.
00:00:44.380 We're going to break down those numbers.
00:00:45.920 We're going to talk about why that's happening and how literally tens of thousands of Americans are alive today
00:00:52.420 because President Trump was reelected and Republicans have control of both houses of Congress.
00:00:57.880 We're also going to talk about Jack Smith's disastrous testimony before the House of Representatives.
00:01:02.940 He got up and brazenly tried to defend his abuse of power, and it did not go well.
00:01:08.440 We're going to give you all the details.
00:01:10.500 I want to take a quick moment and talk to you about an incredible organization,
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00:02:33.440 That's Compassion.com.
00:02:36.540 All right, Senator, so let's just get back to this headline.
00:02:40.580 A lot of people not paying attention to it because why?
00:02:44.120 Well, no one's covering it because it's good news.
00:02:47.600 There are fewer Americans that are becoming victims of crime,
00:02:50.660 fewer people in America that are being murdered.
00:02:53.000 All of this because of Donald Trump's leadership
00:02:56.280 in trying to go into dangerous cities
00:02:58.440 and make them safer for all Americans.
00:03:00.980 That's right.
00:03:02.960 Let's start with crime.
00:03:04.460 And what was released this week is the latest murder rates.
00:03:07.680 And the murder rates across the United States
00:03:09.920 decreased nationwide roughly 20%.
00:03:13.620 And let's put that in specific numbers.
00:03:16.700 If you look at January through October of 2025,
00:03:20.140 and you compare it to the same time period in 2024,
00:03:22.880 in 2025, approximately 5,912 murders were recorded in the U.S.
00:03:31.500 In that same time period in 2024,
00:03:35.200 7,369 murders were recorded.
00:03:38.600 In other words, there are about 1,400 people,
00:03:42.420 1,400 people alive who were not murdered
00:03:45.760 because of common sense, law and order policies,
00:03:50.560 because of not releasing murderers onto the street,
00:03:53.880 because of deporting murderers and violent gang members.
00:03:56.880 And let's break the numbers down.
00:03:59.500 Chicago, the murder rate dropped 30%.
00:04:02.740 New York City, the murder rate dropped 20%.
00:04:06.760 Birmingham, Alabama, it dropped 49%.
00:04:10.320 Albuquerque, New Mexico, it dropped 32%.
00:04:13.120 Baltimore, Maryland, it dropped 31%.
00:04:15.080 Atlanta, Georgia, 26%.
00:04:18.520 Oakland, California, 33%.
00:04:21.680 Washington, D.C., where President Trump deployed the National Guard, 31%.
00:04:26.820 These are historic lows.
00:04:29.620 And if these trends continue,
00:04:32.520 the U.S. may record its lowest murder rate since 1960.
00:04:39.280 That is 66 years ago.
00:04:41.820 That is a stunning result.
00:04:43.820 By the way, border crime, border crime,
00:04:47.200 other violent crimes also decreased in 2025,
00:04:51.700 including a 25% drop in motor vehicle theft,
00:04:55.860 an 18% drop in robberies,
00:04:59.260 and an 8% drop in aggravated assaults.
00:05:02.980 Now, these data are being reported.
00:05:06.420 And what is really quite interesting is the media is doing everything they can to cover it up.
00:05:14.580 So Axios wrote the first story on this.
00:05:17.500 And they talk about the murder rate has fallen,
00:05:18.920 but they say, well, it's unclear that this has anything to do with Donald Trump or DOJ or the FBI
00:05:23.800 or policies that Republicans have put in place deporting violent criminals and murderers and gang members,
00:05:30.820 which is truly, it is a level of dishonesty that is incredible.
00:05:37.920 And I want to give you some of the raw backgrounds that explains why the murder rate has dropped so profoundly.
00:05:48.440 Here are some raw numbers, and this was put out by FBI Director Kash Patel,
00:05:53.060 of what has happened that would explain why is it that we've seen a 20% drop in murder rate.
00:05:57.760 In the last year, we've seen an increase in violent crime arrests.
00:06:03.320 What rate do you think the increase in violent crime arrests has been?
00:06:06.160 What has it been? I have no clue.
00:06:09.440 100%.
00:06:09.920 Wow.
00:06:12.060 All right, how about this?
00:06:13.680 Gangs and criminal enterprises disrupted.
00:06:17.020 What rate do you think that that increase has been?
00:06:20.100 I'm going to guess it's got to be significant.
00:06:24.660 210%.
00:06:25.180 A total of 1,800 gangs and criminal enterprises disrupted.
00:06:30.880 All right, fentanyl.
00:06:32.340 More than 2,000 kilos of fentanyl seized.
00:06:35.480 That's up 31%.
00:06:36.680 That's enough to kill 130 million Americans.
00:06:40.000 There have also been more than 6,000 child victims located.
00:06:45.260 That's an increase of 22%.
00:06:47.160 There have been more than 1,700 child predators arrested.
00:06:52.160 That's an increase of 10%.
00:06:53.620 There have been more than 300 human traffickers arrested.
00:06:57.720 That's up 15%.
00:06:59.020 There's a 35% increase in espionage arrests.
00:07:05.220 And four of the FBI's top 10 most wanted fugitives were captured.
00:07:11.260 And to give you a sense of that, in one year, do you know how many of the FBI's top 10 list were captured in the four years of the Biden presidency?
00:07:20.380 I'm going to guess it's less than five.
00:07:23.220 Four.
00:07:24.240 Wow.
00:07:24.460 So in one year, they captured as many on the top 10 list as Biden did in all four years.
00:07:30.080 And the media want to do everything they can to say, nope, nope, this drop in the murder rate, it just happened magically.
00:07:38.160 It's probably due to global warming or something.
00:07:40.520 It has nothing to do with arresting murderers.
00:07:44.340 It has nothing to do with deporting murderers.
00:07:46.740 It certainly has nothing to do with MS-13 gang members being put in jail and deported, despite the fact that the way you join MS-13 is by murdering someone.
00:07:57.560 And this is real results.
00:08:01.200 And then you put on top of it, you put on top of it, the drop in overdoses.
00:08:08.200 And when we come back, we're going to give you the drop in overdoses, which is even more profound.
00:08:14.400 Even more lives have been saved in the past year.
00:08:17.200 Canadian women are looking for more.
00:08:19.380 More out of themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world around them.
00:08:23.540 And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast.
00:08:27.200 I'm Jennifer Stewart.
00:08:28.420 And I'm Catherine Clark.
00:08:29.420 And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women, entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, politicians, and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey.
00:08:39.200 So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us.
00:08:42.440 Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on iHeartRadio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
00:08:48.140 We also have some incredible data when it comes to overdoses in this country, saving countless lives by securing the border,
00:08:55.720 but also going after the cartels and doing everything we can to stop the flow of drugs in this country.
00:09:01.480 And it's working quickly.
00:09:03.180 Well, you're right.
00:09:03.780 Although the one thing I'll disagree with you on, as you said, countless lives.
00:09:06.900 We actually can count the lives that have been saved.
00:09:10.020 And the lives that have been saved are staggering.
00:09:12.780 We just discussed how the murder rate has dropped 20 percent in the first year of the Trump administration to the lowest rate since 1960.
00:09:22.260 The lowest rate in 66 years.
00:09:26.420 That means roughly 1,400 Americans are alive today who would have been murdered if Joe Biden and the Democrats soft on crime, open border policies were still in effect.
00:09:40.240 Now, that's a lot.
00:09:41.320 1,400 people still alive.
00:09:43.420 Nobody knows who it is.
00:09:44.420 It may be you.
00:09:45.160 It may be me.
00:09:45.860 It may be our family or loved ones.
00:09:47.220 We don't know who it is that would have been murdered, but there would have been more murders.
00:09:50.300 As big as that is, that's not even close to the biggest decrease in deaths because of President Trump and because of common sense policies.
00:10:00.080 The biggest decrease in deaths comes from the drug overdose deaths numbers.
00:10:05.040 And I want to pause for a second and ask everyone listening to this.
00:10:09.520 Have you seen this on the 6 o'clock news?
00:10:12.200 Have you read this in the New York Times?
00:10:14.600 Have you seen the corporate media covering this?
00:10:16.880 They don't want to cover this.
00:10:17.740 Here are the stats.
00:10:18.860 In 2025, drug overdose deaths in America dropped roughly 21%.
00:10:27.360 Now, what does that mean?
00:10:28.940 That means in 2024, there were 91,694 deaths from drug overdoses.
00:10:40.120 91,694.
00:10:42.320 Same time period, and that's actually year-long projected looking at the data.
00:10:47.720 From January to August, and this is from the CDC.
00:10:51.560 91,694 in 2024.
00:10:55.000 What do you think they were in 2025?
00:10:57.380 Well, the answer is 72,836.
00:11:02.380 In other words, the deaths fell from 91,694 to 72,836.
00:11:09.700 That means there are about 19,000 people who did not die because of drug overdoses.
00:11:17.240 And what are the policies that led to it?
00:11:19.580 Well, number one, securing the border.
00:11:21.120 We've seen a 99% decrease in illegal crossings.
00:11:24.320 Number two, targeting the drug traffickers.
00:11:26.780 All of the images you've seen of the administration taking out Venezuelan drug boats filled with drugs.
00:11:34.120 Those drugs are not arriving in the United States at nearly the same rate.
00:11:37.800 And there are 19,000 Americans who are alive today.
00:11:40.900 These are sons and daughters.
00:11:43.240 These are husbands and wives, brothers and sisters that are alive that did not die.
00:11:47.820 You combine the decrease in deaths from drug overdoses with the decrease in deaths from murders, and you're looking at more than 20,000 Americans that are alive today.
00:11:59.260 And so you may not think that government policies necessarily impact your life, but there are 20,000 Americans,
00:12:06.460 and none of us will know for sure who those 20,000 are that are alive today because the administration is rightly focused on public safety,
00:12:16.980 rightly focused on locking up violent criminals, on putting murderers in jail, on putting rapists in jail, on putting child molesters in jail,
00:12:24.160 and on deporting violent criminal illegal immigrants and gang members, and America is much, much safer as a result.
00:12:32.380 You know what's interesting about this, Senator, and I just talk about a compare and contrast.
00:12:37.680 Donald Trump comes in, and we lower crime statistically nationwide, and it's in a level, as you mentioned earlier, that we haven't seen in decades.
00:12:49.360 You compare that to what Democrats were doing to lower crime, they were just lying about the crime stats.
00:12:57.600 Washington, D.C. is a prime example of this.
00:13:00.260 Before the election, they wanted to look like crime had gone down.
00:13:03.280 They straight-up lied about the crime statistics.
00:13:06.300 We've seen this happen in other cities around the country where they got busted lying or recategorizing certain crimes
00:13:13.280 and putting them in different categories so they wouldn't be reported the same way to make it artificially look like crime had gone down.
00:13:20.260 And the difference here is one party really fights crime and goes after the criminals and wins,
00:13:25.420 and the other one says when you do a crime, we'll make it look safer by altering the numbers.
00:13:31.440 That is the difference between the Republican and the Democratic Party on the issue of crime in America today.
00:13:36.120 That's exactly right.
00:13:37.600 And you also have, you have the media deliberately lying.
00:13:42.360 So, for example, this past week, there was a story that was breathlessly reported,
00:13:47.920 which is that the Trump administration has arrested a five-year-old.
00:13:52.940 ICE has targeted a five-year-old, and there's an adorable picture of a little five-year-old.
00:13:57.460 And the left went crazy with that.
00:13:59.680 Twitter went crazy with that.
00:14:01.460 There are multiple reports.
00:14:03.380 It turns out that the five-year-old, what happened is his father was an illegal immigrant.
00:14:09.340 ICE showed up to arrest the illegal immigrant father.
00:14:12.320 And the father abandoned the kid.
00:14:14.640 He ran off.
00:14:16.060 And so the ICE agents, understandably, stayed back with the five-year-old kid
00:14:20.260 because the father had just left him alone.
00:14:24.320 And, you know, I guess the alternative, which the media would want ICE to do,
00:14:29.000 is just to let a five-year-old kid be alone on the streets and freeze to death.
00:14:32.580 Like, it is the level of duplicity, the level of mendacity, the level of just flat-out lying
00:14:40.480 is astonishing.
00:14:42.000 And why is that?
00:14:43.000 It is because the Democrats and the media, although I repeat myself,
00:14:48.500 do not want you to know that the people they're showing up and arresting
00:14:53.220 are overwhelmingly violent criminals.
00:14:56.700 They're not five-year-old kids.
00:14:58.040 In this instance, the five-year-old child was abandoned by his father.
00:15:02.400 And by the way, there are instances all over the country
00:15:06.300 where if you have someone who's pulled over on the side of the road
00:15:09.400 and they have a child in the car and the adult abandons the child,
00:15:12.860 law enforcement will always take care of the kid.
00:15:14.760 That's what your father's been in law enforcement his whole life.
00:15:17.740 That's what your dad would do.
00:15:18.820 It's what any law enforcement would do if a parent abandons a child.
00:15:21.960 And it is fundamentally dishonest to claim,
00:15:24.700 aha, what they were doing was arresting the child.
00:15:27.700 That's not what they were doing.
00:15:28.940 And the media knows it.
00:15:30.100 The Ferguson family got bigger over the holidays with a new puppy.
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00:15:38.060 and a new dog that's just months old,
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00:17:26.860 All right, I want to get to another big story, Senator,
00:17:29.120 and it deals with Jack Smith.
00:17:31.180 He was in front of Congress.
00:17:33.160 I would assume 90% of this audience
00:17:35.820 does not know that he had to testify
00:17:37.580 before Congress this week.
00:17:39.240 Not because they're uninformed,
00:17:41.220 because the media refuses to cover this.
00:17:43.440 They think this is old news
00:17:44.860 and just hashing out something
00:17:47.000 that happened a long time ago
00:17:48.300 so no one should care.
00:17:49.960 I think we should remind people
00:17:52.520 of why accountability is still so vitally important
00:17:55.980 and what Jack Smith was a part of.
00:17:59.900 Can you just give a quick synopsis to people
00:18:02.440 so that people remember who is Jack Smith,
00:18:05.200 what was he doing to abuse power,
00:18:06.940 and just how corrupt was his, quote,
00:18:09.440 investigation to Donald Trump and others?
00:18:11.820 Jack Smith was the point of the spear
00:18:13.520 on the greatest abuse of power
00:18:15.480 we have seen in modern times.
00:18:17.580 And to put it in context,
00:18:18.980 what Jack Smith did was orders of magnitude worse
00:18:22.700 than what the Nixon administration
00:18:24.960 did during Watergate.
00:18:26.440 During Watergate,
00:18:27.260 you had a couple of half-rate burglars
00:18:29.740 break into the headquarters of the DNC,
00:18:33.220 the Democrat National Committee.
00:18:35.500 In this instance, Jack Smith,
00:18:37.580 what he did was orders of magnitude worse.
00:18:40.320 He went directly after President Trump,
00:18:42.840 indicted him multiple times.
00:18:44.900 He did so for a very explicit reason,
00:18:47.000 because he wanted to prevent the American people
00:18:48.920 from re-electing him.
00:18:50.020 It was an effort directly to subvert democracy.
00:18:53.820 It was the first time in the history
00:18:55.020 of the United States
00:18:55.820 that a president or former president
00:18:57.300 has been indicted.
00:18:58.200 Jack Smith did it twice,
00:18:59.360 and then he also teamed up
00:19:00.660 with his rogue Democrat local prosecutors
00:19:03.940 to do it two more times.
00:19:05.380 He also subpoenaed the phone records
00:19:07.780 of roughly 20% of the Republicans
00:19:10.880 in the Senate in a fishing expedition.
00:19:13.400 He targeted over 400 Republicans.
00:19:15.940 It was a political persecution.
00:19:19.000 If you're a fan of Les Mis,
00:19:20.960 Jack Smith would make Javert blush.
00:19:25.040 He was out of control,
00:19:26.740 and he continues to be brazen.
00:19:28.320 And I will tell you,
00:19:28.840 his testimony testified
00:19:29.860 for the House of Representatives.
00:19:31.700 It was a disaster.
00:19:33.060 Jim Jordan, your friend and mine,
00:19:34.780 he's been a guest on the Verdict podcast before.
00:19:37.560 Jim Jordan chaired the hearing.
00:19:39.260 He opened the hearing by pointing out
00:19:41.040 that the FBI,
00:19:41.980 when it raided Mar-a-Lago,
00:19:43.040 that it searched Melania's closet
00:19:46.060 because apparently her clothing
00:19:49.180 and underwear is a matter
00:19:50.540 of national security,
00:19:51.640 according to Jack Smith
00:19:52.800 and the Biden DOJ.
00:19:54.260 And it searched
00:19:55.360 Barron Trump's bedroom
00:19:57.380 because, you know,
00:19:58.040 going after a teenager
00:19:59.180 is really the best use
00:20:00.680 for the Department of Justice.
00:20:01.780 And I guess it is
00:20:02.840 if you're willing
00:20:04.000 to abuse your power.
00:20:05.100 I want you to listen
00:20:06.020 to Jim Jordan
00:20:08.700 talking about Jack Smith
00:20:10.620 at the hearing.
00:20:11.360 Here, give a listen.
00:20:12.440 Gentleman yields back.
00:20:13.600 Mr. Smith,
00:20:14.260 is Cassidy Hutchinson a liar?
00:20:16.420 She was their star witness.
00:20:18.700 January 6th committee,
00:20:19.840 their star witness
00:20:20.820 in one of those staged
00:20:22.060 and choreographed hearings
00:20:23.420 they paid the former president
00:20:25.020 of ABC News
00:20:26.680 to put together.
00:20:28.380 She was, in fact,
00:20:28.900 the only witness
00:20:29.660 at this special
00:20:30.620 prime time hearing
00:20:32.260 Tuesday, June 28th, 2022,
00:20:35.520 eight o'clock in the evening.
00:20:36.780 And she told some stories.
00:20:39.380 I mean, these were
00:20:40.140 these were some stories.
00:20:41.900 She talked about
00:20:42.540 the president
00:20:43.600 lunged across the back seat,
00:20:45.960 grabbed the steering wheel,
00:20:47.340 tried to drive the car
00:20:48.680 to the Capitol.
00:20:49.940 And I just want to know,
00:20:51.140 you think she was lying?
00:20:52.760 Chairman Jordan,
00:20:53.560 my assessment
00:20:54.900 of that particular issue
00:20:56.920 is that
00:20:57.900 with respect to
00:20:59.620 the testimony
00:21:00.780 about someone lunging,
00:21:02.060 the president lunging
00:21:03.180 towards the driver,
00:21:05.640 my recollection
00:21:07.080 of her testimony
00:21:07.920 about that
00:21:08.560 is that it was secondhand.
00:21:10.000 She said she'd heard
00:21:10.900 that from somebody.
00:21:11.900 You familiar with the name
00:21:12.760 Tony Ornato?
00:21:13.980 I'm sorry.
00:21:14.560 You familiar with the name
00:21:15.420 Tony Ornato?
00:21:16.700 Yes.
00:21:17.640 White House deputy
00:21:18.340 chief of operations,
00:21:19.500 deputy chief of staff
00:21:20.200 for operations, right?
00:21:22.040 You remember,
00:21:22.340 you know,
00:21:22.580 you remember what he said
00:21:23.900 about it?
00:21:24.700 As I sit here right now,
00:21:25.680 I do not.
00:21:26.220 Yeah, he said it didn't happen.
00:21:27.820 How about Bobby Engle?
00:21:28.700 You familiar with that name?
00:21:30.100 Yes, I am.
00:21:31.080 Secret service agent
00:21:31.940 who was actually in the car?
00:21:33.860 That day?
00:21:34.540 You know what he said?
00:21:35.660 He said it didn't happen.
00:21:37.260 And they both said
00:21:38.340 the first time
00:21:39.080 they ever heard this story
00:21:40.860 was when
00:21:41.960 Ms. Hutchinson
00:21:42.800 testified
00:21:43.560 in the prime time hearing
00:21:45.280 as their star witness
00:21:46.440 of the January 6th committee.
00:21:48.620 By the way,
00:21:49.000 did you ever confirm
00:21:49.800 her testimony
00:21:50.500 about this particular incident?
00:21:53.300 We conducted,
00:21:55.280 as I said before,
00:21:56.300 our own independent investigation
00:21:58.160 of all aspects
00:21:59.700 of the case
00:22:00.200 that we thought
00:22:00.660 was relevant.
00:22:01.820 We,
00:22:01.940 attorneys from my office.
00:22:03.740 Did you ever confirm it?
00:22:04.500 That's a simple question.
00:22:06.360 We interviewed her,
00:22:07.780 I should say,
00:22:08.280 attorneys in my office before.
00:22:09.220 Did you ever confirm
00:22:10.220 the president
00:22:10.760 leaping across the seat,
00:22:13.000 grabbing the steering wheel,
00:22:14.040 this whole concoction
00:22:15.060 she brought up
00:22:15.780 in the January 6th hearing?
00:22:16.880 Did you ever confirm that?
00:22:17.840 Right.
00:22:17.980 We interviewed another
00:22:20.240 first-hand witness
00:22:21.300 who was in the car
00:22:23.100 who did not confirm
00:22:25.380 that that happened,
00:22:27.060 but also stated...
00:22:28.260 In your deposition
00:22:28.700 to the committee
00:22:29.500 last month,
00:22:30.440 Mr. Smith,
00:22:31.420 you said this,
00:22:32.500 my recollection
00:22:33.260 with Ms. Hutchinson
00:22:34.040 was a number of the things
00:22:35.120 that she gave evidence on
00:22:36.260 were second-hand hearsay.
00:22:37.620 You remember making
00:22:38.320 that statement to us
00:22:39.100 last month
00:22:40.060 in the deposition?
00:22:41.140 I did,
00:22:41.700 and I was referring
00:22:42.380 particularly to what
00:22:43.600 we're talking about now.
00:22:44.580 Yeah, and you also said
00:22:45.540 Ms. Hutchinson regarding
00:22:46.380 this particular claim
00:22:47.380 was a second
00:22:48.060 or even third-hand witness.
00:22:49.600 We asked you,
00:22:50.240 if you were a defense attorney,
00:22:51.460 how would you handle
00:22:52.180 cross-examining her
00:22:53.200 if she was on the witness stand?
00:22:54.540 And you said,
00:22:55.040 if I were a defense attorney
00:22:55.880 and Ms. Hutchinson
00:22:56.460 were a witness,
00:22:57.180 the first thing I would do
00:22:58.360 was seek to preclude
00:22:59.200 her testimony
00:22:59.840 because it was hearsay.
00:23:01.300 You remember saying all that?
00:23:02.420 Yes, that's correct, sir.
00:23:03.340 That's correct, right?
00:23:04.360 Were you going to put her
00:23:04.960 on the witness stand
00:23:05.620 if you ever got to trial?
00:23:07.120 We had not made
00:23:08.200 final determinations
00:23:09.260 as to who we were going
00:23:10.380 to call as a witness.
00:23:11.420 We had a large...
00:23:12.200 You were still considering her?
00:23:13.220 We had a large choice
00:23:15.700 of witnesses in this case.
00:23:16.880 Are you familiar
00:23:17.320 what Washington Post reporters
00:23:19.560 Carol Lenning
00:23:20.420 and Aaron Davis
00:23:21.220 said in their book?
00:23:21.980 They did his book,
00:23:22.820 300-some pages book
00:23:24.000 on Chronicle
00:23:24.800 and the whole investigation
00:23:25.640 of the Justice Department.
00:23:26.860 And here's what they said
00:23:27.860 on page 310.
00:23:29.600 They said,
00:23:30.040 Jack Smith had wondered
00:23:31.160 whether some of Hutchinson's claims
00:23:32.580 might be relied upon at trial.
00:23:34.560 Still, at one point,
00:23:35.520 Smith told the elections team
00:23:36.740 he wasn't ready to give up
00:23:37.960 on Hutchinson's account.
00:23:39.560 Ultimately, however,
00:23:40.980 Trump administration officials
00:23:42.260 uniformly, fiercely disputed
00:23:44.520 her accounts under oath.
00:23:45.920 Prosecutors on your team
00:23:46.980 told Smith
00:23:47.520 they wouldn't want
00:23:48.480 to use Hutchinson
00:23:49.220 as a witness in court
00:23:50.300 and Smith agreed.
00:23:52.580 Are Carol Lenning
00:23:53.220 and Aaron Davis
00:23:54.020 who wrote this,
00:23:54.600 are they lying?
00:23:55.680 My recollection
00:23:56.620 is that I certainly
00:23:58.220 had not made
00:23:58.920 any final determinations
00:24:00.160 about who we were
00:24:02.080 going to call as a witness.
00:24:02.460 And that's the point.
00:24:03.760 That is the point.
00:24:04.860 The fact that they used her
00:24:06.300 in a primetime hearing
00:24:07.800 and you won't rule out
00:24:09.380 using her,
00:24:10.020 didn't rule out
00:24:10.660 using her,
00:24:11.140 putting her on the witness stand
00:24:12.020 when everybody knows
00:24:13.340 she wasn't telling the truth,
00:24:14.960 that says it all.
00:24:17.180 That's the degree
00:24:18.260 the left and Democrats
00:24:20.100 were willing to go
00:24:21.000 to get President Trump.
00:24:21.960 Putting on the witness stand
00:24:22.940 someone everybody knows
00:24:24.420 is making it up.
00:24:26.040 Everybody knows that.
00:24:27.800 And you are willing to do it.
00:24:28.500 By the way,
00:24:28.900 you know how many times
00:24:29.600 Cassie Hutchinson
00:24:30.520 was mentioned in their report,
00:24:31.860 the January 6th report?
00:24:33.340 Any idea, Mr. Smith?
00:24:34.860 I do not.
00:24:35.400 A hundred and eighty-five times.
00:24:37.980 Someone that the whole country knows
00:24:39.980 wasn't telling the truth
00:24:41.540 and you were still considering
00:24:43.200 putting her on the witness stand
00:24:44.800 because you had to get
00:24:46.980 President Trump.
00:24:48.320 And everybody can see that.
00:24:50.920 Senator, you listen
00:24:52.120 to that line of questioning
00:24:53.080 and that's just five minutes
00:24:55.020 of pure facts and gold
00:24:57.020 from Jim Jordan
00:24:57.880 reminding people
00:24:59.300 what they were trying to do
00:25:01.320 on the left.
00:25:02.360 Even when they knew
00:25:03.480 that things were being made up,
00:25:04.700 that lies were being told.
00:25:06.420 And this is no different
00:25:07.340 than Russian collusion
00:25:08.380 back in 16
00:25:09.260 when the FBI
00:25:10.680 had already declared
00:25:11.640 that they thought
00:25:12.320 that the Steele dossier
00:25:13.340 was, quote,
00:25:14.260 user-generated
00:25:15.120 and they used it anyway.
00:25:16.880 That's exactly
00:25:17.680 what was happening here
00:25:19.320 with the special counsel.
00:25:21.420 It was weaponize
00:25:22.500 and do whatever you want to do
00:25:23.840 to try to stop Donald Trump
00:25:25.440 from becoming president again.
00:25:27.540 Well, and what Jim Jordan
00:25:29.140 did there
00:25:29.640 was also highlight
00:25:30.600 the willingness
00:25:31.120 to rely on people
00:25:32.380 that were lying
00:25:33.100 that were obviously lying.
00:25:34.920 You know, I will say
00:25:35.600 it's interesting.
00:25:36.120 Cassidy Hutchison,
00:25:37.880 I don't know her personally.
00:25:39.720 Before she worked
00:25:40.580 in the White House,
00:25:41.360 she was apparently
00:25:42.140 an intern in my office.
00:25:44.080 I have no recollection of her.
00:25:46.360 We have lots of interns
00:25:47.740 who come in and out
00:25:48.400 of the office.
00:25:49.220 We tend to have interns
00:25:50.020 in the spring semester
00:25:50.840 and the fall semester
00:25:51.600 and also during the summer.
00:25:53.200 And typically,
00:25:54.320 I will sit down
00:25:55.380 with the group of interns
00:25:56.460 that are with us
00:25:57.240 for like a 20-minute meeting
00:25:58.420 in my office
00:25:58.960 and I'll talk with them
00:25:59.800 a little bit.
00:26:00.200 So I assume I met her
00:26:01.620 when she interned
00:26:02.540 but I don't remember her.
00:26:04.380 She wrote a book
00:26:05.420 right after her star testimony.
00:26:08.540 She wrote a book
00:26:09.300 of all of her stories
00:26:10.520 and in it,
00:26:12.140 she describes
00:26:13.160 this exchange with me,
00:26:15.600 this conversation
00:26:16.640 that she says
00:26:17.440 happened with me
00:26:18.480 that is truly fantastic
00:26:20.100 because it never occurred
00:26:22.100 and it was an exchange
00:26:23.520 that she said occurred
00:26:24.360 after she went
00:26:25.020 to the White House
00:26:25.980 and the dialogue
00:26:27.280 back and forth
00:26:28.200 she makes up
00:26:29.180 has me kind of like
00:26:30.960 tugging on her shirt sleeve
00:26:33.400 and asking for her help
00:26:34.960 and it has her
00:26:36.300 like strongly
00:26:37.480 like sticking it
00:26:39.100 to the senator.
00:26:40.020 I have to admit,
00:26:41.000 so I didn't read her book
00:26:42.860 and I think very few people
00:26:44.300 actually did.
00:26:45.760 I did what's called
00:26:47.000 the Washington read
00:26:47.960 when someone writes
00:26:48.820 something about you
00:26:49.520 that's sort of making
00:26:50.080 a little bit of news
00:26:50.820 which is I went and read
00:26:51.780 the like page
00:26:52.760 where she talks about it
00:26:53.800 and I literally laughed
00:26:55.420 out loud at the exchange
00:26:57.240 because it was truly fiction
00:27:00.760 and the fact that she was
00:27:02.440 willing to fictionalize
00:27:03.520 a conversation with me
00:27:04.900 that did not occur
00:27:07.120 tells me that the other pages
00:27:10.500 of the book
00:27:11.020 are quite likely
00:27:11.700 to be fiction as well
00:27:12.820 and it speaks volumes
00:27:14.920 that both Jack Smith
00:27:16.000 and the Democrats
00:27:18.400 running the January 6th commission
00:27:19.780 were perfectly happy
00:27:21.100 to rely upon a fabulist
00:27:22.700 whom they knew
00:27:23.500 was not telling the truth.
00:27:24.980 Senator, one of our good friends
00:27:26.640 actually did a great
00:27:27.960 back and forth
00:27:28.800 in this hearing.
00:27:30.580 Brandon Gill,
00:27:31.340 a guy who
00:27:32.560 his tone
00:27:33.400 and his demeanor
00:27:34.380 is always really cool
00:27:35.880 and calm
00:27:36.500 and kind of quiet
00:27:37.320 but very direct
00:27:38.860 and it's a personality
00:27:41.320 that I love watching
00:27:42.920 because of the way
00:27:43.860 that he asks questions
00:27:45.000 and gets answers
00:27:45.920 and he did a really fabulous job
00:27:48.020 in this situation as well.
00:27:49.880 Well, as you know,
00:27:51.020 Brandon Gill is a good friend.
00:27:52.240 He's a freshman
00:27:53.020 representative from Texas.
00:27:55.160 He's someone I supported
00:27:56.280 when he ran
00:27:56.900 in a very crowded primary.
00:27:58.500 He had a big win
00:27:59.780 and I told the voters of Texas
00:28:01.200 if they elected him
00:28:02.400 he was going to be
00:28:03.360 a leader in Washington
00:28:04.280 and already
00:28:04.900 just in his first year plus
00:28:08.760 on Capitol Hill
00:28:10.080 he's already proven
00:28:11.040 to be a leader in Washington.
00:28:12.780 Here he's cross-examining
00:28:14.180 Jack Smith
00:28:14.800 about Arctic Frost
00:28:16.080 and in particular
00:28:16.800 his willingness
00:28:17.500 to trample on the Constitution
00:28:18.920 to target
00:28:19.700 both the Speaker
00:28:20.980 of the House
00:28:21.440 Kevin McCarthy
00:28:22.200 and also roughly
00:28:23.620 20% of the Republicans
00:28:24.940 in the United States Senate.
00:28:26.580 Give a listen
00:28:27.280 to this exchange
00:28:28.160 and how ridiculous
00:28:30.240 Jack Smith's responses
00:28:31.640 are
00:28:32.260 to Brandon Gill's questions.
00:28:35.640 The gentleman from Texas
00:28:36.840 Mr. Gill
00:28:37.280 is recognized
00:28:37.720 for five minutes.
00:28:39.700 Mr. Smith
00:28:40.340 in January of 2023
00:28:41.760 did you subpoena
00:28:42.640 then Speaker
00:28:43.420 of the House
00:28:43.840 Kevin McCarthy's
00:28:44.660 toll records?
00:28:45.200 Yes sir we did.
00:28:49.620 Yes you did
00:28:50.060 and the subpoena
00:28:50.580 covered the time period
00:28:51.520 between November 2020
00:28:52.640 and January 2021
00:28:53.740 is that right?
00:28:56.040 I'm sorry sir
00:28:56.940 could you say that again?
00:28:58.200 We're not
00:28:58.680 we're not going to delay
00:28:59.440 like this
00:28:59.900 the subpoena
00:29:00.340 covered the time period
00:29:01.360 between November of 2020
00:29:02.740 and January 2021
00:29:04.080 how many days
00:29:05.300 after Kevin McCarthy
00:29:06.160 was sworn in
00:29:06.940 as Speaker
00:29:07.480 did you subpoena
00:29:08.200 his records?
00:29:11.220 I don't recall
00:29:12.400 but those two things
00:29:13.480 had nothing to do with one.
00:29:14.500 16 days after becoming
00:29:15.880 the highest ranking
00:29:17.060 Republican
00:29:17.680 in the House
00:29:18.780 of Representatives
00:29:19.460 you subpoenaed
00:29:20.360 his toll records
00:29:21.220 do you agree
00:29:22.220 that that might
00:29:22.740 reasonably be considered
00:29:24.160 a violation
00:29:24.740 of the speech
00:29:25.280 or debate clause?
00:29:28.840 I do not
00:29:29.840 and I want to be clear
00:29:30.800 that the toll records
00:29:31.480 You were collecting
00:29:32.100 months worth
00:29:32.880 of phone data
00:29:33.680 on the Republican
00:29:34.980 Speaker of the House
00:29:36.020 the leader
00:29:36.560 of the opposition
00:29:37.400 right after he got
00:29:38.940 sworn in as Speaker
00:29:40.020 all around the time
00:29:41.360 of a major vote
00:29:42.260 that sounds like
00:29:43.140 a flagrant violation
00:29:45.020 of the speech
00:29:45.580 or debate clause
00:29:46.360 to me
00:29:46.640 and I think
00:29:46.920 most people
00:29:47.560 agree with me
00:29:48.660 and Speaker McCarthy
00:29:49.600 had no recourse
00:29:50.540 did he?
00:29:50.960 Because you issued
00:29:51.580 a non-disclosure
00:29:52.960 order ensuring
00:29:53.840 that neither he
00:29:54.900 nor any of the
00:29:56.180 American people
00:29:56.780 knew about
00:29:57.280 these subpoenas
00:29:57.880 is that right?
00:30:00.820 The toll record
00:30:02.080 the non-content
00:30:03.120 toll record subpoenas
00:30:04.160 we did secure
00:30:05.560 non-disclosure orders
00:30:06.860 for those subpoenas
00:30:07.700 You did
00:30:08.260 and let me ask you
00:30:08.820 Mr. Smith
00:30:09.520 at the time
00:30:10.000 you secured
00:30:10.860 those non-disclosure
00:30:11.740 orders
00:30:12.020 was Speaker McCarthy
00:30:13.120 a flight risk?
00:30:16.080 The
00:30:16.560 non-disclosure
00:30:18.620 order
00:30:19.000 was based
00:30:19.800 on concerns
00:30:20.460 about
00:30:20.660 Was Speaker McCarthy
00:30:21.620 a flight risk?
00:30:22.440 He was not
00:30:23.000 He was not
00:30:23.800 Then why did
00:30:24.340 your non-disclosure
00:30:25.200 order refer to him
00:30:26.240 as a flight risk?
00:30:28.300 It says right here
00:30:29.200 the court finds
00:30:29.840 reasonable grounds
00:30:30.840 to believe
00:30:31.300 that such disclosure
00:30:32.340 will result
00:30:33.040 in flight
00:30:33.560 from prosecution
00:30:34.460 Sir
00:30:39.200 when securing
00:30:40.560 a non-disclosure
00:30:41.820 order
00:30:42.200 the risks
00:30:43.860 don't have
00:30:45.140 to be associated
00:30:45.840 You think
00:30:46.100 that the Speaker
00:30:47.260 of the House
00:30:47.760 is a flight risk?
00:30:48.620 Can you finish answering
00:30:48.640 the question?
00:30:49.720 No, this is not
00:30:50.580 your time
00:30:51.120 This is my time
00:30:52.100 You think
00:30:52.960 the Speaker
00:30:53.900 of the House
00:30:54.420 is a flight risk?
00:30:55.260 You think he's
00:30:55.600 going to hop
00:30:55.960 on a plane
00:30:56.420 and leave the country?
00:30:58.800 No
00:30:59.040 What I was trying
00:31:00.360 to explain
00:31:00.980 is with respect
00:31:02.420 to a non-disclosure
00:31:03.360 order
00:31:03.700 The risks
00:31:04.680 aren't necessarily
00:31:05.800 associated
00:31:06.560 with the subscriber
00:31:07.840 to the phone
00:31:08.540 The risks
00:31:10.060 to the investigation
00:31:11.120 I think
00:31:12.120 that you were using
00:31:13.020 This was clearly
00:31:13.840 in reference
00:31:14.500 to Speaker McCarthy
00:31:16.280 and you were using
00:31:17.100 clearly false information
00:31:18.640 to secure
00:31:19.160 a non-disclosure order
00:31:20.380 to hide
00:31:21.280 from Speaker McCarthy
00:31:22.280 and from the
00:31:23.120 American people
00:31:23.880 the fact that you
00:31:24.780 were spying
00:31:25.320 on his toll records
00:31:26.240 But I've got more
00:31:26.940 so let's move on
00:31:28.320 In May of 2023
00:31:29.600 you also issued
00:31:30.720 subpoenas
00:31:31.120 for toll records
00:31:32.000 of nine U.S. senators
00:31:33.420 and an additional
00:31:34.560 representative
00:31:35.200 Is that right?
00:31:38.940 In May of 2023
00:31:40.140 we did issue
00:31:41.780 You did
00:31:42.180 and there were
00:31:42.520 non-disclosure orders
00:31:43.420 in conjunction
00:31:43.960 with those subpoenas
00:31:44.720 as well, right?
00:31:46.240 That's correct
00:31:46.940 consistent with
00:31:47.640 department policy
00:31:48.480 and the law
00:31:48.920 So again
00:31:49.520 nobody would know
00:31:50.220 what you were doing
00:31:50.700 The senators would
00:31:51.580 and the representatives
00:31:52.320 would
00:31:52.720 and the American people
00:31:53.460 wouldn't know
00:31:53.780 what you were doing
00:31:54.320 Is that right?
00:31:54.820 The toll records
00:31:57.900 that we secured
00:31:59.120 and the non-disclosure
00:32:00.600 orders
00:32:01.020 were consistent
00:32:02.100 with policy
00:32:02.840 And you knew
00:32:04.020 whenever you were
00:32:04.560 doing that
00:32:04.980 that there was a risk
00:32:05.760 you were violating
00:32:06.460 the speech or debate
00:32:07.200 clause
00:32:07.540 Is that right?
00:32:10.140 The toll records
00:32:11.200 subpoenas
00:32:11.580 that we secured
00:32:12.440 were with the
00:32:13.080 concurrence
00:32:13.580 of the public
00:32:14.100 integrity
00:32:14.340 Your own analysis
00:32:15.320 says that you knew
00:32:16.400 there was a risk
00:32:17.180 you were violating
00:32:18.200 the speech or debate
00:32:19.060 clause
00:32:19.400 I have it right here
00:32:20.280 This is an email
00:32:21.360 from John Keller
00:32:22.360 at Public Integrity
00:32:23.380 Section to your team
00:32:24.760 As you are aware
00:32:26.140 Quote
00:32:26.500 As you are aware
00:32:27.200 there is some
00:32:27.760 litigation risk
00:32:28.840 regarding whether
00:32:29.520 compelled disclosure
00:32:30.620 of toll records
00:32:31.560 of a member's
00:32:32.660 legislative cause
00:32:33.500 violates the speech
00:32:34.580 or debate clause
00:32:35.320 in the D.C. Circuit
00:32:36.200 That's from your own
00:32:37.000 analysis right there
00:32:38.180 So you did know
00:32:39.440 didn't you?
00:32:40.640 Sir with respect
00:32:41.180 to the item
00:32:41.940 you just put up
00:32:42.620 on the screen
00:32:43.260 the last sentence
00:32:44.440 states
00:32:45.120 Oh we're going to
00:32:46.640 get to the last sentence
00:32:47.640 Okay
00:32:48.880 We're going to get
00:32:49.320 to the last sentence
00:32:50.060 and you cite
00:32:51.460 case law in here
00:32:52.300 Quote
00:32:52.520 The bar on
00:32:53.180 compelled disclosure
00:32:54.240 is absolute
00:32:55.000 Is that right
00:32:56.200 or do you think
00:32:56.680 that you didn't
00:32:57.120 have to abide
00:32:58.140 by that precedent?
00:32:59.980 To be clear
00:33:00.920 this is not
00:33:01.640 this statement
00:33:02.380 is not from my office
00:33:03.700 This is the statement
00:33:04.600 This is your justification
00:33:06.340 for those subpoenas
00:33:08.160 and NDOs
00:33:08.980 that you ordered
00:33:09.520 This was part
00:33:10.180 of your analysis
00:33:10.900 It's a cursory analysis
00:33:12.380 I think it's worth noting
00:33:13.580 Let's get to that
00:33:14.760 last sentence then
00:33:15.720 Quote
00:33:16.220 Given my understanding
00:33:17.300 of the low likelihood
00:33:18.320 that any of the members
00:33:19.440 listed below
00:33:20.160 would be charged
00:33:20.880 The litigation risk
00:33:22.460 should be minimal here
00:33:23.960 In other words
00:33:25.320 you're using
00:33:25.820 a novel legal theory
00:33:26.980 which you knew
00:33:27.560 was novel
00:33:28.100 has never been tested
00:33:29.280 by any court
00:33:30.160 You're not charging
00:33:31.460 any of these members
00:33:32.380 Nobody's going to know
00:33:33.400 about it
00:33:33.800 because you issued
00:33:34.780 NDOs
00:33:35.500 Nobody's going to
00:33:36.600 sue about it
00:33:37.220 so sue this
00:33:38.200 so who cares
00:33:39.020 we're going to
00:33:39.440 do it anyways
00:33:40.300 I mean you walked
00:33:41.940 all over the constitution
00:33:43.440 throughout this entire process
00:33:45.060 Chairman the Gentleman's Times
00:33:45.880 expiring on members
00:33:46.740 of Congress
00:33:47.280 and you know it
00:33:48.080 it's absolutely disgraceful
00:33:49.960 It's incredible
00:33:51.320 when you hear
00:33:52.580 just how
00:33:53.740 out of control
00:33:54.880 our government
00:33:56.760 was
00:33:57.980 under the direction
00:33:58.940 of the Biden administration
00:34:00.060 and Jack Smith
00:34:01.380 and the unlimited powers
00:34:03.580 that clearly
00:34:04.140 he believed he had
00:34:04.980 to just do
00:34:05.820 and create
00:34:06.380 whatever he wanted
00:34:07.080 to try to bring
00:34:07.860 down Donald Trump
00:34:08.640 and anyone around him
00:34:09.880 Well Jack Smith
00:34:11.520 knew
00:34:11.840 that what he was doing
00:34:13.540 was illegal
00:34:14.040 that it violated
00:34:15.300 the constitution
00:34:16.020 that it violated
00:34:16.760 the speech and debate clause
00:34:17.940 but as that email exchange
00:34:20.260 indicates
00:34:21.000 that Brandon Gill read
00:34:22.660 he was counting
00:34:24.100 on the fact
00:34:24.580 that no one
00:34:24.980 would ever know about it
00:34:25.800 that it would stay secret
00:34:26.680 that it would never
00:34:27.180 be made public
00:34:27.800 so he could violate
00:34:29.160 the law
00:34:29.620 and his objective
00:34:31.360 was to prevent
00:34:33.800 the American people
00:34:35.280 from re-electing
00:34:36.200 President Trump
00:34:36.980 and let's be clear
00:34:37.840 if Kamala Harris
00:34:38.800 is DOJ
00:34:39.700 were in office
00:34:41.980 we wouldn't know
00:34:42.820 about this
00:34:43.320 nobody would know
00:34:44.000 about this
00:34:44.420 he would have succeeded
00:34:45.500 you know
00:34:46.180 he's like
00:34:47.140 the villain
00:34:48.480 in Scooby-Doo
00:34:49.400 you know
00:34:49.720 he would have
00:34:50.060 gotten away with it
00:34:50.940 if it weren't
00:34:51.560 for those meddling kids
00:34:52.740 and by the way
00:34:53.260 by the meddling kids
00:34:54.160 he means the voters
00:34:55.020 of America
00:34:55.660 who decided
00:34:56.920 no
00:34:57.360 we've had enough
00:34:58.540 of this dumpster fire
00:34:59.580 we'd like to get back
00:35:00.480 to common sense
00:35:01.300 and I gotta say
00:35:03.140 Jack Smith
00:35:04.580 is just calmly
00:35:05.420 telling Congress
00:35:06.260 that he went
00:35:07.040 before the judge
00:35:08.140 and he lied
00:35:08.660 he lied over and over
00:35:09.640 again
00:35:09.820 I thought the exchange
00:35:10.680 is Kevin McCarthy
00:35:11.500 a flight risk
00:35:12.240 he says no
00:35:13.260 well then why did you
00:35:14.640 tell the judge
00:35:15.200 he was a flight risk
00:35:16.000 and he has no good answer
00:35:17.640 well
00:35:17.920 you know
00:35:18.920 we're not referring
00:35:19.720 to the actual target
00:35:20.860 of the subpoena
00:35:21.980 it's complete nonsense
00:35:23.120 he also told
00:35:24.160 told the judge
00:35:25.600 that every Republican
00:35:26.740 that he subpoenaed
00:35:27.980 was likely
00:35:28.960 to destroy evidence
00:35:30.120 completely made up
00:35:31.200 false statements
00:35:31.980 and it's an abuse
00:35:33.340 of power
00:35:34.280 and Jack Smith
00:35:36.440 is completely unapologetic
00:35:37.720 incredible
00:35:38.780 don't forget
00:35:39.360 we do this show
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