Verdict with Ted Cruz - Out of Control Gun Control

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.560 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.320 Last Thursday night, in this incredible term for the Supreme Court,

00:00:09.260 we had just gotten a major ruling on the Second Amendment.

00:00:11.780 So Senator Cruz and I sat down, middle of the night,

00:00:14.460 he had just come from the Senate, from the Capitol,

00:00:18.000 and we were discussing this issue from the court,

00:00:22.480 what's going on with the legislators trying to pass gun control.

00:00:25.580 And the very next morning, we got the ruling in Dobbs,

00:00:28.900 the most important Supreme Court decision, certainly of my lifetime,

00:00:31.440 one of the most important ever in the history of the United States.

00:00:34.600 And so we came out, emergency episode, breaking news, verdict episode,

00:00:38.600 but we still want to bring this to you.

00:00:40.420 This is still incredible news.

00:00:42.200 While Dobbs is the big headline,

00:00:43.900 there are so many other great things that have come out of this court term.

00:00:47.080 So without further ado, here is our discussion of the Second Amendment.

00:00:51.720 A major loss for Second Amendment rights

00:00:54.760 and a major win for Second Amendment rights,

00:00:57.600 all in the same day and in true verdict style,

00:01:02.300 it is the middle of the night.

00:01:04.460 Senator Cruz is coming straight off the Senate floor.

00:01:06.840 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

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00:03:41.780 Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:03:44.160 I'm Michael Knowles,

00:03:45.400 and I am totally cheating this time

00:03:47.640 because it is Thursday evening right now

00:03:50.960 when we are filming this,

00:03:52.200 and it is a lovely 9.30 p.m.

00:03:54.860 where I am here in California.

00:03:57.300 Senator, for you,

00:03:58.540 it is after midnight.

00:04:00.080 You've just come off the Senate floor,

00:04:01.640 and we're about to start a show.

00:04:04.100 You know, it really feels like

00:04:05.980 we're reliving our past,

00:04:07.460 our origin story.

00:04:09.000 I think all verdicts

00:04:10.460 ought to be filmed after midnight,

00:04:12.140 and the show would get much better

00:04:14.600 if we did a tequila shot

00:04:16.880 after every topic.

00:04:18.600 Well, I did want to take

00:04:20.420 some tequila shots

00:04:21.260 after I saw the machinations

00:04:23.300 in the Senate today

00:04:24.360 and the Democrats

00:04:25.460 and the squishes pushing gun control. 0.80

00:04:27.780 You saw it a lot closer than I did.

00:04:30.480 What happened?

00:04:31.640 You know, today was

00:04:32.800 a really frustrating day.

00:04:34.460 Today, the United States Senate

00:04:36.600 passed the most significant

00:04:38.440 gun control bill since 1994,

00:04:40.760 and it's even more frustrating.

00:04:42.780 So in the last podcast,

00:04:43.640 we talked about the broader issues,

00:04:45.700 but I told you then

00:04:47.720 that I would have more to say

00:04:50.460 in the hours and days coming forward.

00:04:52.840 Well, earlier this week,

00:04:56.200 in fact, right after the last podcast,

00:04:58.320 I introduced my own legislation,

00:05:00.120 and my own legislation,

00:05:02.200 I teamed up with John Barrasso,

00:05:04.320 who is the number three Republican

00:05:07.240 in the conference leadership.

00:05:09.140 He is the senator from Wyoming,

00:05:11.700 great guy, great friend,

00:05:12.940 great conservative.

00:05:14.020 Actually, we've had John Barrasso

00:05:15.260 on the show.

00:05:16.680 That's right.

00:05:17.220 A former guest on verdict.

00:05:18.420 Yes.

00:05:19.280 So we teamed up

00:05:20.860 and introduced legislation

00:05:22.040 that was called Cruz Barrasso.

00:05:23.660 By any measure,

00:05:26.020 the legislation I introduced

00:05:28.340 and I fought for

00:05:29.380 would do much, much more,

00:05:32.280 would be much more effective,

00:05:33.500 was much more serious

00:05:34.620 in stopping mass murders

00:05:36.660 and stopping mass shootings

00:05:38.000 and keeping our kids safe.

00:05:39.620 And yet every single Democrat

00:05:41.960 lined up against it.

00:05:43.700 And they said,

00:05:44.700 we don't want to double

00:05:45.460 the number of cops in schools.

00:05:47.160 We don't want to prosecute

00:05:48.400 gun criminals.

00:05:49.380 Instead, our objective is

00:05:52.100 to meet our political priorities

00:05:54.440 of restricting

00:05:56.300 the Second Amendment rights

00:05:57.420 of law-abiding citizens.

00:05:58.340 It's really frustrating

00:05:59.740 and it's maddening.

00:06:02.160 So you come up

00:06:04.140 with this legislation

00:06:05.060 with John Barrasso

00:06:06.320 and you bring it in,

00:06:08.280 you introduce it into the Senate,

00:06:09.940 and then while you're waiting

00:06:11.240 for Chuck Schumer

00:06:12.060 to come sign on

00:06:13.240 as a co-sponsor,

00:06:14.640 because this is basic stuff,

00:06:16.460 if Democrats really wanted

00:06:17.600 to solve this,

00:06:18.220 then they would do it.

00:06:19.440 Meanwhile,

00:06:20.300 the Democrats are picking off

00:06:21.640 14 Republicans

00:06:22.640 to support their legislation,

00:06:24.740 which whatever you think

00:06:26.080 about gun control

00:06:26.960 is just far less relevant

00:06:29.040 to these actual shootings

00:06:30.420 than legislation like yours would be.

00:06:33.420 And then the legislation

00:06:35.520 that the Democrats proposed

00:06:37.080 passes the Senate.

00:06:38.340 So it's done, right?

00:06:39.540 It's over.

00:06:40.200 It's going to go to Biden's desk

00:06:41.700 and then it's going to become law?

00:06:42.560 No, it has to go to the House next,

00:06:44.320 but the House is expected

00:06:45.400 to take it up

00:06:46.060 and the House will pass it.

00:06:47.500 So it will go to Biden's desk,

00:06:49.660 but the House has to pass it first.

00:06:51.860 And the Democrats there

00:06:53.140 are going to support it.

00:06:53.980 And look,

00:06:54.320 the Democrats understand

00:06:55.600 this is the camel's nose

00:06:56.640 under the tent.

00:06:58.140 The provision in this bill

00:06:59.980 that is the most problematic

00:07:01.100 is the red flag provision.

00:07:03.200 So this bill provides

00:07:04.720 significant federal funding

00:07:06.060 for states to pass

00:07:08.020 so-called red flag laws.

00:07:09.580 And the problem is

00:07:10.500 red flag laws

00:07:12.220 really can invite abuse

00:07:14.140 because they're a mechanism

00:07:15.600 to take away the guns

00:07:18.080 from law-abiding citizens.

00:07:19.820 And it varies state by state,

00:07:21.980 but we've seen some blue states

00:07:23.340 enact red flag laws

00:07:24.700 where they can take away your guns

00:07:26.760 with little to no due process,

00:07:29.480 with little to no judicial protection.

00:07:31.700 Now, the Second Amendment

00:07:32.900 is not just some sort of privilege

00:07:34.920 that various political communities

00:07:37.900 have decided to pass.

00:07:40.360 The Second Amendment

00:07:41.280 is a constitutional right.

00:07:43.780 The right to keep and bear arms,

00:07:45.100 no matter what you think of it,

00:07:46.680 is a basic civil right.

00:07:48.860 So my question is,

00:07:50.180 how can the Democrats

00:07:51.920 and these 14 Republicans

00:07:53.140 lower the threshold so much

00:07:56.280 to deprive someone

00:07:57.200 of their basic civil rights?

00:07:58.700 And will this,

00:07:59.840 if it's challenged in court,

00:08:01.400 would this kind of legislation

00:08:03.160 be overruled?

00:08:04.280 So it depends.

00:08:05.500 The Democrats, by and large,

00:08:07.100 don't care.

00:08:08.300 And more and more

00:08:09.620 congressional Democrats

00:08:10.660 are becoming quite candid

00:08:11.960 that their objective

00:08:12.900 is gun confiscation,

00:08:14.600 that they want to take guns

00:08:15.820 away from the American people.

00:08:17.180 They used to hide that.

00:08:18.940 More and more Democrats 0.50

00:08:19.940 are being very open.

00:08:21.060 Beto O'Rourke famously said,

00:08:22.840 hell yes,

00:08:23.360 we're going to take your AR-15.

00:08:24.880 I mean, they're embracing it.

00:08:27.560 Justice John Paul Stevens,

00:08:28.980 the lion of the left,

00:08:30.440 wrote an op-ed saying

00:08:31.560 we should repeal

00:08:32.440 the Second Amendment.

00:08:33.380 That is more and more

00:08:34.380 becoming the position

00:08:35.420 of the hard left

00:08:36.760 is screw the Second Amendment,

00:08:38.040 we want your guns.

00:08:38.800 With Republicans,

00:08:42.260 it's more complicated.

00:08:43.300 A number of Republicans,

00:08:44.420 so we had at lunch today

00:08:46.580 with the Senate Republicans,

00:08:47.720 we had a hot lunch.

00:08:50.380 It's as hot

00:08:51.220 as any I can remember

00:08:53.200 in years.

00:08:54.060 People were angry

00:08:54.980 and yelling at each other.

00:08:56.360 This is, look,

00:08:57.120 it's an emotional issue.

00:08:58.380 It's a divisive issue.

00:09:01.020 On the question

00:09:02.060 of red flag laws,

00:09:03.200 what the defenders

00:09:03.820 of this bill were saying

00:09:05.220 is, well, gosh,

00:09:06.020 no courts

00:09:07.800 have struck down

00:09:09.480 the state laws

00:09:10.320 as being unconstitutional.

00:09:11.540 No courts have concluded

00:09:12.900 that they don't

00:09:14.100 adequately protect

00:09:15.300 due process.

00:09:16.320 Well, look,

00:09:17.400 there are lots of things

00:09:18.200 that are unconstitutional

00:09:19.140 that have yet to be adjudicated.

00:09:20.640 And if your standard is

00:09:21.780 whatever New York

00:09:22.980 or Connecticut does

00:09:23.940 is just

00:09:24.500 okie-dokie by me

00:09:26.640 unless and until

00:09:27.820 a court strikes it down,

00:09:30.860 you're on pretty

00:09:31.720 dangerous territory.

00:09:32.660 So I found that argument

00:09:34.380 particularly unpersuasive.

00:09:36.900 We have heard

00:09:37.780 in the Judiciary Committee

00:09:38.860 significant testimony

00:09:40.900 about how these laws

00:09:42.220 have been abused.

00:09:43.020 And one of the things

00:09:43.520 I said on the Senate floor

00:09:44.600 is as a consequence

00:09:46.560 of this bill tonight,

00:09:48.480 we will see people

00:09:49.740 assaulted and lose their life.

00:09:51.300 So we had a big argument

00:09:52.460 today at lunch

00:09:53.280 over my amendment.

00:09:55.980 So we started the day

00:09:57.280 with me being told

00:09:59.080 by multiple senators,

00:10:00.480 oh, Chuck Schumer

00:10:01.620 is going to schedule

00:10:03.840 a vote on your amendment.

00:10:05.440 He's agreed

00:10:05.940 we're going to have

00:10:06.360 one amendment.

00:10:07.400 It's your amendment.

00:10:08.580 It's the Cruz Barrasso amendment.

00:10:09.760 We're going to vote on that

00:10:10.680 and then we'll be done.

00:10:12.660 And at lunch,

00:10:14.040 several of my colleagues asked,

00:10:16.460 okay, is your amendment,

00:10:18.180 is it simply

00:10:19.520 an addition to this bill

00:10:20.980 adding new provisions

00:10:22.020 or is it a substitute?

00:10:24.840 A substitute is

00:10:25.960 delete what you got

00:10:26.940 and replace it with this.

00:10:28.000 And I said,

00:10:29.980 guys, it's a substitute.

00:10:31.480 I don't like what you're doing.

00:10:32.780 What you're doing is bad.

00:10:34.000 It's a bad bill.

00:10:35.180 It undermines

00:10:36.280 the second amendment.

00:10:37.800 So I don't want to add

00:10:39.180 my bill to yours

00:10:40.120 and undermine the second amendment

00:10:41.420 and do something good.

00:10:42.600 I'd just like to do something good.

00:10:44.680 I'd like us actually

00:10:45.800 to pass a straight up bill

00:10:47.780 going after criminals

00:10:48.760 and keeping people safe.

00:10:51.580 I will tell you

00:10:52.560 my Republican colleagues

00:10:53.620 who are in support

00:10:54.580 of this bill

00:10:55.100 were furious.

00:10:55.920 That was the cause

00:10:57.540 of much of the fireworks

00:10:58.620 at lunch

00:10:59.120 is they're like,

00:10:59.880 we don't want to substitute.

00:11:01.340 We want you just to,

00:11:02.420 just add our bill,

00:11:03.740 add your bill to ours

00:11:04.700 and we'll be fine with it.

00:11:06.080 In your estimation,

00:11:07.380 Senator,

00:11:07.700 I don't want to make you

00:11:09.340 play psychobabble

00:11:10.260 or anything like that,

00:11:11.380 but is your read

00:11:12.620 from your squishier colleagues

00:11:14.620 who backed

00:11:15.200 the Dems gun control bill,

00:11:17.080 is your read

00:11:17.840 that they did it

00:11:18.660 for political reasons

00:11:20.300 to appease

00:11:21.140 their purple

00:11:21.800 or blue constituencies

00:11:22.900 or did they do it

00:11:24.700 because of conviction

00:11:26.400 because they think

00:11:27.020 it's actually good

00:11:27.660 to take away guns

00:11:28.720 from more Americans.

00:11:29.900 Now look,

00:11:30.220 there were a number

00:11:30.780 of them from pretty red states

00:11:32.780 that weren't from

00:11:33.800 blue or purple states.

00:11:35.700 I don't know.

00:11:36.660 I'm not an armchair shrink.

00:11:40.180 I think it is

00:11:41.440 consistently the case

00:11:42.800 that when a Republican

00:11:43.780 compromises with the Democrats

00:11:45.340 and does what

00:11:46.000 the Democrats want,

00:11:47.500 that the press

00:11:48.320 will praise them.

00:11:49.760 It's an easy path.

00:11:51.200 If you want the press

00:11:52.040 to call you a statesman,

00:11:53.620 just do what

00:11:54.120 the Democrats want.

00:11:55.200 And as a Republican,

00:11:56.620 it's simple.

00:11:57.440 100% of the time

00:11:58.660 you give in to the Democrats,

00:11:59.920 the press says,

00:12:00.800 oh, you're so wise,

00:12:01.900 you're so enlightened.

00:12:03.500 And it's a pattern

00:12:04.600 we see over and over again.

00:12:06.900 You know,

00:12:07.060 you think about this bill.

00:12:08.320 This is a bill

00:12:08.880 that united all the Democrats.

00:12:10.380 Every Democrat

00:12:11.200 voted for this bill.

00:12:12.620 The most left-wing Democrats

00:12:14.360 happily voted

00:12:15.020 for this bill.

00:12:17.280 And less than a third

00:12:19.600 of the Republicans

00:12:20.200 voted for this bill.

00:12:21.500 More than a few of us

00:12:22.760 were asking

00:12:23.460 of our leadership,

00:12:24.880 why are we teeing up

00:12:25.900 a bill that unites

00:12:27.160 all the Democrats

00:12:28.040 and divides the Republicans

00:12:29.320 and makes us fight

00:12:30.040 with each other?

00:12:31.060 I get why this makes sense

00:12:32.540 for Chuck Schumer.

00:12:33.320 Why does this make sense

00:12:34.160 for us?

00:12:35.560 But when I said

00:12:37.360 my amendment

00:12:37.940 is going to be a substitute,

00:12:39.240 I'm not willing

00:12:39.920 to just rubber stamp

00:12:40.820 what you're doing,

00:12:42.000 it made the proponents

00:12:43.340 of the bill pretty angry.

00:12:45.280 And Schumer ended up

00:12:46.700 saying no amendments at all.

00:12:47.900 And so he blocked amendments.

00:12:51.240 Now, the way you block amendments,

00:12:52.620 and let's get into

00:12:53.200 a little bit of

00:12:53.760 arcane Senate procedure.

00:12:56.080 When you have a bill

00:12:57.160 pending on the floor,

00:12:58.960 there is what's called

00:13:00.180 the amendment tree,

00:13:01.200 which is there are open slots

00:13:02.760 for amendments.

00:13:04.460 And what Schumer did

00:13:05.460 is what's called

00:13:06.120 filling the tree,

00:13:07.240 which is he brings up the bill,

00:13:08.640 then he files an amendment,

00:13:10.420 he files another amendment,

00:13:11.400 he fills the legs

00:13:12.460 on the tree.

00:13:13.980 And typically,

00:13:15.000 the blocking amendment

00:13:16.080 is something really minor

00:13:17.940 and inconsequential.

00:13:19.100 It's something like

00:13:19.800 changing a date

00:13:20.760 from September 1st

00:13:23.000 to September 2nd.

00:13:23.940 I mean, it doesn't matter

00:13:25.760 what it is.

00:13:26.360 It's just an amendment

00:13:27.580 to block that slot

00:13:28.860 so no one else

00:13:29.540 can file an amendment.

00:13:31.420 So because Schumer

00:13:32.860 refused to allow

00:13:34.400 any amendments,

00:13:35.920 what I did tonight

00:13:37.500 is I exercised

00:13:39.160 the prerogatives

00:13:39.900 of a senator

00:13:40.600 to move to table

00:13:44.020 a pending amendment.

00:13:45.980 And in particular,

00:13:46.560 I moved to table

00:13:47.700 Schumer's amendment

00:13:49.440 that was filling the tree,

00:13:50.860 that was blocking the tree.

00:13:52.640 And under Senate rules,

00:13:54.320 a motion to table

00:13:55.460 an amendment

00:13:56.020 is a privileged motion

00:13:58.220 with no debate

00:13:59.220 that forces a vote.

00:14:00.380 So it was a way

00:14:01.360 for me to force a vote.

00:14:02.460 And I stood up and said,

00:14:03.320 look,

00:14:03.620 I'm moving to table this

00:14:05.200 in order to force a vote

00:14:07.520 on Cruz Barraza.

00:14:08.800 And this is a chance

00:14:10.720 for everyone here

00:14:11.620 to decide which one you want.

00:14:13.980 Do you want to pass a bill

00:14:15.040 that is serious

00:14:16.060 about going after

00:14:17.320 violent criminals,

00:14:18.180 about locking up

00:14:18.940 gun criminals,

00:14:19.760 and that provides

00:14:20.960 much, much more funds

00:14:22.760 and resources

00:14:23.400 to make schools safe,

00:14:24.900 to double the number

00:14:25.960 of cops in schools

00:14:27.020 to protect our kids?

00:14:29.120 Or do you want to pass

00:14:30.440 a political bill

00:14:31.300 that satisfies

00:14:32.180 the partisan urges

00:14:33.580 of the Democrats?

00:14:34.280 That's your choice.

00:14:35.840 That's what we voted on tonight.

00:14:37.620 And unfortunately,

00:14:39.580 that vote failed.

00:14:40.800 We got a total of 39 votes

00:14:42.400 to table the amendment,

00:14:44.640 which meant all the Democrats

00:14:46.840 and eight Republicans

00:14:50.100 voted to block

00:14:53.180 any more amendments

00:14:54.200 to prevent consideration

00:14:55.600 of the serious legislation

00:14:58.260 that actually would put

00:15:00.260 real resources on the table

00:15:02.000 to stop violent crime.

00:15:03.400 So that means

00:15:04.780 that six Republicans

00:15:05.920 backed the Democrats

00:15:07.780 gun control bill,

00:15:09.060 but also didn't

00:15:10.720 didn't try to shoot down

00:15:12.200 your amendment.

00:15:13.280 Correct.

00:15:14.860 So a way to sort of

00:15:16.020 split the baby there,

00:15:16.820 but I guess we'll take

00:15:17.420 what we can get.

00:15:17.860 Yeah, we picked off

00:15:19.020 about half the Republicans

00:15:20.160 who were supporting this,

00:15:21.260 and so that was

00:15:22.020 that was an incremental benefit.

00:15:25.740 And by the way,

00:15:26.960 look, I'll also say

00:15:28.140 we were working with

00:15:30.080 gun rights groups

00:15:32.160 so that the NRA

00:15:33.400 actively supported

00:15:35.640 my amendment

00:15:36.180 and publicly urged senators

00:15:38.280 to vote for it.

00:15:39.280 Why?

00:15:40.160 Because it targets

00:15:40.940 the bad guys.

00:15:41.520 It targets criminals.

00:15:42.580 It actually focuses

00:15:43.660 on how you stop

00:15:44.760 gun crimes

00:15:46.100 rather than

00:15:47.880 disarming law-abiding citizens.

00:15:49.760 But unfortunately,

00:15:50.980 a majority of the Senate

00:15:55.680 wanted to

00:15:56.760 go down a political

00:15:58.020 road instead.

00:15:59.260 So the Democrats

00:15:59.900 run the Senate,

00:16:00.780 so the Democrats

00:16:01.380 get their way

00:16:02.120 on their gun bill.

00:16:03.880 The Democrats

00:16:05.080 generally do not run

00:16:06.900 the Supreme Court.

00:16:08.020 We have a

00:16:09.100 vaguely conservative,

00:16:11.300 vague majority

00:16:12.240 on the court,

00:16:12.880 and the court

00:16:13.560 handed down

00:16:14.300 a major victory

00:16:15.580 for the Second Amendment

00:16:16.780 today.

00:16:17.140 That was the

00:16:17.580 New York Rifle

00:16:18.920 and Pistol Association

00:16:20.020 versus Bruin.

00:16:21.920 And it was

00:16:22.820 a case

00:16:23.940 that decided

00:16:26.380 whether and how

00:16:28.520 New Yorkers

00:16:29.360 are allowed

00:16:29.940 to keep

00:16:30.460 and bear arms.

00:16:31.800 Could you

00:16:32.240 describe a little bit

00:16:33.420 about the case?

00:16:34.300 Sure.

00:16:34.500 It's a big case.

00:16:35.860 It is a big victory

00:16:37.000 and it is cause

00:16:37.780 for celebration.

00:16:39.140 So New York

00:16:39.860 has in place

00:16:40.560 a law

00:16:40.960 that severely

00:16:42.020 restricts

00:16:42.800 the ability

00:16:43.440 of New Yorkers

00:16:45.040 to carry a firearm

00:16:45.900 outside the home.

00:16:46.960 So if you want

00:16:47.780 to conceal,

00:16:48.400 carry a handgun,

00:16:49.240 New York

00:16:50.320 had a handful

00:16:51.080 of very narrow

00:16:52.140 circumstances

00:16:52.860 in which you

00:16:53.400 were allowed

00:16:53.760 to do it.

00:16:54.600 But as a practical

00:16:55.700 matter,

00:16:56.160 you couldn't.

00:16:56.680 It was illegal

00:16:57.460 to carry a firearm

00:16:59.300 outside your home.

00:17:01.440 So if you're

00:17:02.360 on the subway,

00:17:03.040 if you want

00:17:03.380 to protect yourself,

00:17:04.980 New York

00:17:05.340 made it illegal

00:17:06.000 to do that.

00:17:07.200 This was a lawsuit

00:17:08.220 saying,

00:17:08.900 look,

00:17:09.140 making it illegal

00:17:09.840 to protect yourself

00:17:10.760 is contrary

00:17:11.420 to the Second Amendment

00:17:12.600 which says

00:17:13.660 the right to keep

00:17:14.360 and bear arms

00:17:15.080 shall not be

00:17:16.220 infringed.

00:17:17.440 The Supreme Court

00:17:18.340 agreed.

00:17:19.240 The decision

00:17:19.880 is 6-3.

00:17:20.820 So it was a big

00:17:21.600 majority decision.

00:17:23.760 Justice Clarence Thomas

00:17:24.800 wrote the majority.

00:17:25.800 It's a fantastic

00:17:26.580 majority opinion

00:17:27.500 and it vigorously

00:17:30.500 gave life

00:17:31.400 to the Second Amendment

00:17:32.320 and it said,

00:17:32.980 look,

00:17:33.180 you've got a right

00:17:33.960 to protect

00:17:34.880 your own life.

00:17:36.340 The Second Amendment

00:17:36.920 is not about hunting.

00:17:37.980 It's not about

00:17:38.400 skeet shooting.

00:17:39.280 It's not about

00:17:40.020 recreational use

00:17:41.680 of firearms.

00:17:42.420 The Second Amendment

00:17:43.120 is about

00:17:43.600 the fundamental right

00:17:44.660 you have,

00:17:45.980 you,

00:17:46.160 Michael Knowles

00:17:46.920 to defend

00:17:47.480 your life,

00:17:48.080 to protect

00:17:48.460 your life,

00:17:49.020 and to defend

00:17:49.540 your family.

00:17:51.120 And that right

00:17:53.340 of life

00:17:54.100 and self-defense,

00:17:55.720 the ability

00:17:56.980 to both keep

00:17:58.400 and to bear arms,

00:18:00.080 to carry them

00:18:00.960 with you

00:18:01.620 to protect yourself

00:18:03.160 is fundamental.

00:18:04.640 And the Supreme Court

00:18:05.400 said restrictions

00:18:06.880 that are not

00:18:07.760 in the tradition

00:18:08.580 of what has been

00:18:09.360 allowed

00:18:09.960 with the right

00:18:12.100 to keep

00:18:12.460 and bear arms

00:18:13.300 are beyond

00:18:14.960 what is allowed

00:18:16.880 under the Constitution.

00:18:18.280 It was a big,

00:18:19.660 big victory.

00:18:20.500 I remember

00:18:20.800 when I was living

00:18:21.420 in New York,

00:18:22.020 I did a little research

00:18:22.940 to see what it would take

00:18:24.380 to allow me

00:18:25.500 to carry a weapon.

00:18:27.340 Even just to have

00:18:28.100 a weapon

00:18:28.400 in my apartment

00:18:29.660 was difficult enough,

00:18:30.960 but to carry a weapon

00:18:32.240 outside of my apartment

00:18:33.020 and it was,

00:18:33.600 it was virtually impossible.

00:18:35.400 And in the law

00:18:36.440 at issue here,

00:18:37.800 New York decided

00:18:39.340 that you had to prove

00:18:40.720 that you had a cause

00:18:42.780 to have,

00:18:44.380 to keep and bear

00:18:45.000 this weapon.

00:18:46.100 And it would seem to me

00:18:47.700 that the cause

00:18:48.580 would be

00:18:49.160 the government's

00:18:50.620 trying to take away

00:18:51.300 my Second Amendment rights.

00:18:52.360 That would seem to be

00:18:53.240 a sufficient cause

00:18:54.280 to exercise

00:18:55.320 my Second Amendment rights.

00:18:56.900 Will this have ripple effects

00:18:58.140 around the rest of the country?

00:18:59.620 So it will.

00:19:00.260 I think you will see

00:19:01.060 litigation

00:19:01.660 against other

00:19:02.800 significant constraints

00:19:04.160 on the right

00:19:04.600 to keep and bear arms.

00:19:05.620 And I think you will see

00:19:06.720 gun-grabbing restrictions

00:19:09.020 struck down.

00:19:10.140 The left

00:19:11.120 wants to make it

00:19:12.800 hard,

00:19:13.600 if not impossible,

00:19:14.540 for you to protect yourself.

00:19:16.440 And I think

00:19:17.000 this decision,

00:19:18.000 this decision

00:19:18.640 is the biggest

00:19:19.300 Second Amendment decision

00:19:20.460 since Heller

00:19:21.880 versus District of Columbia,

00:19:23.340 which as you know,

00:19:24.940 I led a coalition

00:19:25.960 of states in Heller

00:19:27.180 defending the Second Amendment

00:19:28.380 right to keep and bear arms.

00:19:29.840 That was a landmark

00:19:30.940 5-4 decision.

00:19:32.960 Antonin Scalia

00:19:33.760 wrote the opinion.

00:19:34.660 It's probably

00:19:35.080 the finest majority opinion

00:19:37.160 Justice Scalia

00:19:37.860 ever wrote.

00:19:39.340 In this case,

00:19:40.640 I led an amicus brief

00:19:42.140 for 24 senators

00:19:45.540 defending the Second Amendment

00:19:47.620 right to keep and bear arms.

00:19:48.780 So we filed a brief

00:19:49.740 of the court

00:19:50.260 and the court

00:19:51.080 agreed with us.

00:19:51.720 The court agreed with us

00:19:52.660 down the line

00:19:53.680 that the right

00:19:54.940 to keep and bear arms

00:19:55.780 is real.

00:19:56.620 It's significant.

00:19:57.480 It's meaningful.

00:19:58.100 It needs to be protected.

00:19:59.400 And, you know,

00:19:59.780 the Bill of Rights

00:20:00.460 is not optional.

00:20:01.460 It's not a recommendation.

00:20:03.200 If you don't agree with it,

00:20:04.620 who cares?

00:20:05.460 It is in the Constitution.

00:20:07.180 If you don't agree with it,

00:20:08.560 try to amend the Constitution,

00:20:09.840 but you don't get to ignore it

00:20:11.420 just because you'd like to ignore it.

00:20:13.840 And so I think this was a big decision

00:20:15.980 and a really important

00:20:18.420 long-term victory

00:20:19.280 for the Second Amendment.

00:20:20.540 I will tell you something amazing.

00:20:22.760 So imagine for a second, Michael,

00:20:26.700 that you're the lawyer

00:20:27.700 who argues the New York case,

00:20:29.980 wins a 6-3 landmark case

00:20:33.000 defending a constitutional right.

00:20:37.080 Imagine you are also

00:20:38.540 a partner at a law firm

00:20:39.520 who's just won

00:20:40.400 a landmark victory

00:20:41.680 at the Supreme Court.

00:20:43.420 What do you think

00:20:44.680 the reward

00:20:45.600 and the response

00:20:47.180 from your law firm

00:20:48.220 would be and should be?

00:20:50.600 I would imagine

00:20:51.760 I should get a big,

00:20:53.360 fat, gigantic bonus.

00:20:55.720 I think I should get

00:20:56.620 an upgrade to my office

00:20:58.120 if I'm in some little kind of,

00:21:00.200 I'd like that corner office now,

00:21:02.160 maybe a nice leather chair

00:21:04.320 and a cocobolo desk.

00:21:05.720 That's what I would expect.

00:21:06.740 Look, all of that makes sense

00:21:08.180 and you got it

00:21:09.040 almost exactly right.

00:21:11.080 What happened in this case

00:21:12.920 is the lawyer

00:21:14.240 who argued the case

00:21:15.340 was Paul Clement.

00:21:16.620 He was the former

00:21:17.180 Solicitor General

00:21:17.940 of the United States.

00:21:18.760 Paul is someone

00:21:19.120 I know very well.

00:21:19.900 He's an incredibly

00:21:20.580 talented advocate.

00:21:22.500 He won 6-3.

00:21:23.740 He was a partner

00:21:24.300 at Kirkland and Ellis

00:21:25.180 and immediately

00:21:26.380 after the decision

00:21:27.220 came down,

00:21:28.000 Kirkland fired him.

00:21:29.060 Oh my God.

00:21:30.340 He was fired.

00:21:32.280 They fired him

00:21:33.360 and they fired Aaron Murphy

00:21:34.420 who was also his partner.

00:21:36.060 What the law firm said

00:21:37.800 is we have decided

00:21:40.200 we are no longer willing

00:21:41.360 to defend the Second Amendment.

00:21:43.500 So you, Paul,

00:21:44.640 and you, Aaron,

00:21:45.260 have a choice.

00:21:46.040 Fire your client

00:21:47.000 who is a longstanding client.

00:21:50.320 Tell them you will

00:21:50.840 no longer represent them

00:21:52.160 or get the hell

00:21:53.760 out of the firm.

00:21:55.340 And Paul and Aaron,

00:21:56.700 God bless them,

00:21:57.620 said,

00:21:58.480 nice knowing you guys.

00:21:59.920 See you later.

00:22:00.520 We won't let the door 1.00

00:22:02.060 hit us on the ass 0.99

00:22:02.840 on the way out. 1.00

00:22:03.980 And they left the firm

00:22:05.360 today.

00:22:07.440 Literally within hours

00:22:08.840 of winning

00:22:09.340 this landmark decision.

00:22:11.420 Do you want to know

00:22:12.240 something even more amazing?

00:22:14.700 I can't imagine

00:22:15.940 what would be more amazing

00:22:16.820 than that,

00:22:17.240 but sure.

00:22:17.960 This is not the first time

00:22:19.640 this has happened

00:22:20.220 to Paul Clement.

00:22:22.480 So more than a decade ago.

00:22:24.000 I thought you were going to say

00:22:24.240 this is not the first time

00:22:25.420 that this has happened

00:22:26.160 in the history of the court.

00:22:27.460 This poor man,

00:22:28.880 this has happened

00:22:29.320 to multiple times.

00:22:30.560 So over a decade ago,

00:22:32.280 Paul was a partner

00:22:33.080 at King and Spalding,

00:22:34.000 one of the top

00:22:34.560 Supreme Court litigators

00:22:35.620 on the planet.

00:22:37.080 And the U.S. House

00:22:38.520 of Representatives,

00:22:39.400 controlled by Republicans

00:22:40.260 at the time,

00:22:42.000 hired Paul to defend

00:22:43.460 the Defense of Marriage Act,

00:22:45.480 a law passed by Congress

00:22:47.540 that Barack Obama

00:22:49.420 refused to defend.

00:22:51.000 And so the Republican House

00:22:52.580 wanted somebody

00:22:53.320 to defend it

00:22:53.860 in the Supreme Court.

00:22:54.520 they hired Paul.

00:22:56.320 King and Spalding said

00:22:57.600 either refuse to represent

00:23:00.080 the United States

00:23:01.080 House of Representatives

00:23:02.280 or leave the firm.

00:23:04.940 And Paul left the firm.

00:23:06.840 He formed his own firm.

00:23:09.280 That particular case,

00:23:10.820 he lost 5-4.

00:23:12.060 So he didn't win it,

00:23:13.580 but he got four votes

00:23:14.520 at the court.

00:23:15.160 It was a very important case.

00:23:18.120 He went to a little litigation boutique,

00:23:20.460 practiced there for years,

00:23:21.660 and then 2016,

00:23:22.860 Kirkland and Ellis,

00:23:23.480 which is a big white shoe firm

00:23:26.700 based in Chicago,

00:23:27.980 one of the most profitable firms

00:23:30.700 in America,

00:23:31.840 brought him in

00:23:33.560 and brought his team in.

00:23:35.380 He was representing

00:23:36.740 the New York State Rifle Association.

00:23:38.700 He had these clients.

00:23:39.700 He was doing the Second Amendment

00:23:40.780 representation at the time.

00:23:43.060 And Kirkland agreed at the time,

00:23:44.800 you can keep these clients.

00:23:46.040 We know who your clients are.

00:23:47.080 You can keep your clients.

00:23:48.000 It's all good with us.

00:23:49.620 And the thing to understand

00:23:51.060 about this, Michael,

00:23:51.980 this is woke corporate America.

00:23:56.940 Law firms are the handmaidens 1.00

00:23:59.360 for the giant companies.

00:24:02.520 And this is woke general counsels

00:24:05.540 saying our politics matters

00:24:08.600 more to us than anything else.

00:24:10.280 And this is law firms 0.94

00:24:12.820 being cowards 0.88

00:24:14.040 and saying, 0.99

00:24:15.680 OK,

00:24:16.720 then we've decided

00:24:18.060 certain parts of the Bill of Rights

00:24:19.520 we don't care about.

00:24:20.580 If there are clients

00:24:21.320 that are unpopular,

00:24:22.200 we don't care about.

00:24:23.580 And they literally

00:24:24.580 are chasing away

00:24:25.820 their marquee.

00:24:27.660 Like,

00:24:28.160 like,

00:24:28.900 Paul is their top

00:24:30.220 Supreme Court litigator.

00:24:31.500 So by the way,

00:24:32.220 they're also telling

00:24:32.940 all their corporate clients,

00:24:33.860 if you have a Supreme Court case,

00:24:35.420 oh, well,

00:24:35.880 we can't do it anymore.

00:24:36.940 We don't have

00:24:38.060 the big dog anymore

00:24:39.580 because our politics

00:24:41.340 is more important

00:24:42.260 than actually representing

00:24:43.440 your interests.

00:24:44.420 It really is shameful

00:24:46.620 what's happened to law firms

00:24:48.700 and what has happened

00:24:49.440 to corporate America.

00:24:50.460 That is,

00:24:51.920 you know,

00:24:52.860 I guess it's a mark

00:24:54.000 of honor

00:24:55.060 for,

00:24:55.980 for Paul

00:24:56.900 in the sense that

00:24:58.320 the guy is obviously

00:24:59.680 very,

00:25:00.080 very effective,

00:25:00.640 very,

00:25:00.900 very successful.

00:25:02.140 And the soft power

00:25:04.100 that has a lot of power

00:25:05.160 around this country,

00:25:05.820 corporate power,

00:25:06.820 really doesn't like him

00:25:07.960 and is punishing him.

00:25:09.100 Good on him.

00:25:09.720 He should fire the pink slip 1.00

00:25:11.740 that he received.

00:25:12.760 All in all,

00:25:13.500 especially as we're looking

00:25:15.600 at these big wins

00:25:16.860 and big potential wins

00:25:17.780 from the Supreme Court,

00:25:18.960 you're seeing that rise

00:25:20.320 in vitriol from the left

00:25:22.200 and danger as well.

00:25:23.360 We will have to

00:25:24.080 leave it there

00:25:25.080 on that sort of

00:25:25.880 ominous cliffhanger

00:25:27.300 with lots of big decisions

00:25:29.160 awaiting

00:25:29.720 their final conclusion.

00:25:32.860 But that's it

00:25:33.540 for right now.

00:25:34.040 It's one o'clock.

00:25:34.820 I know that's an early night

00:25:35.820 for you, Senator,

00:25:37.100 but we will let you

00:25:38.140 get to sleep.

00:25:39.060 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:25:40.180 This is Verdict

00:25:40.740 with Ted Cruz.

00:25:49.320 This episode of Verdict

00:25:51.620 with Ted Cruz

00:25:52.440 is being brought to you

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Verdict with Ted Cruz - June 28, 2022

Out of Control Gun Control

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