Verdict with Ted Cruz - July 13, 2026


Remembering my Friend Lindsey Graham： Who he was as a Person & Why he left such an Extraordinary Legacy


Episode Stats


Length

48 minutes

Words per minute

177.57

Word count

8,633

Sentence count

446

Harmful content

Misogyny

4

sentences flagged

Toxicity

14

sentences flagged

Hate speech

10

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
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00:01:34.880 Welcome. It is Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you.
00:01:39.060 And this is going to be one of those shows that is, it's a hard one.
00:01:42.620 Senator, one of your best friends in the Senate, a dear friend of yours,
00:01:46.900 someone that I've gotten to know over the last several, gosh, 20 plus years,
00:01:51.160 you woke up to the same shocking news that I did that Lindsey Graham had passed away suddenly
00:01:56.660 and this is someone that you worked with and knew so well look this was a hard day this was a
00:02:03.420 shocking day I woke up as so many people did across America with the news that that Lindsey
00:02:09.600 had passed away of what has been reported to be a massive heart attack at his home Saturday night
00:02:17.320 I was stunned I had five or six texts in my phone as I woke up and I just stared at them
00:02:24.700 in disbelief it did not seem real Lindsay was a good friend of mine Lindsay was he was one of a
00:02:34.120 kind he was someone he and I did not always see eye to eye in fact we battled on a lot of issues
00:02:39.760 but but we also agreed on a whole bunch of issues and and we were close allies fighting for years
00:02:47.280 to confirm conservative judges and conservative justices. We were close allies fighting to defend
00:02:54.640 the Second Amendment. We were close allies fighting to support the men and women of the
00:03:00.380 military. We were close allies fighting to defend our national security, to stand with our allies,
00:03:07.820 to stand with Israel. And we were close allies standing up to America's enemies, and especially
00:03:13.640 Iran and and and Lindsay was someone he was a force of nature but but his personality
00:03:21.680 I gotta say if you spent time with Lindsay I think it was impossible to dislike Lindsay
00:03:27.480 he was charming he was funny as hell like just witty I for years I used to say to Lindsay and
00:03:36.840 John Kennedy I'd ask each of them I don't know which one of you is funnier and they'd but kind
00:03:42.360 of both sort of bow up their chest and get mad at him yeah and i actually i i do have a theory i
00:03:47.940 think john kennedy is the better stand-up comedian like like if john kennedy and john prepares a fair
00:03:54.740 amount of his material but when he's delivering it he could be a professional comedian yes but
00:03:59.880 but lindsey was wittier just sitting there he would fire zingers that you're like it was and
00:04:08.120 And many of them were self-deprecating.
00:04:10.460 He did not take himself too seriously.
00:04:12.540 He would make fun of himself like crazy.
00:04:15.460 He did.
00:04:17.120 And it was, you know, I've traveled abroad with Lindsey multiple times.
00:04:24.400 He loved our country.
00:04:27.300 Absolutely.
00:04:28.320 With a passion. 1.00
00:04:30.260 Look, Lindsey wasn't married.
00:04:31.980 He didn't have kids.
00:04:33.380 Every ounce of his life was the Senate.
00:04:37.220 He would travel all over the world.
00:04:38.860 I mean, it's just what he did.
00:04:40.460 He was out.
00:04:41.740 You know, I think it was beautiful and in some ways fitting.
00:04:45.020 So he had just come back from Ukraine.
00:04:46.860 He'd been meeting with President Zelensky.
00:04:49.080 He came back to the United States.
00:04:51.000 Saturday night, he was on the phone with President Trump.
00:04:53.660 And by the way, he was one of President Trump's closest friends.
00:04:58.820 And I say that without exaggeration because Lindsey and Trump disagreed on a lot of issues.
00:05:03.060 A lot.
00:05:03.320 But Trump loved the guy.
00:05:06.860 And it was hard.
00:05:08.400 I don't know if you saw him talking about him on Meet the Press.
00:05:10.940 He's like, he kind of had like unfeathered access to the White House.
00:05:13.920 He really did.
00:05:14.760 He goes, I don't know that to a lot of people.
00:05:15.740 But he was like, Lindsay just came over all the time.
00:05:18.660 Look, Lindsay was like the Trump whisperer.
00:05:22.080 He would call Trump.
00:05:23.700 He talked to him early in the morning.
00:05:25.040 He talked to him late at night.
00:05:26.080 He talked to them day after day after day.
00:05:28.520 Trump didn't always agree with him, but he would listen to him.
00:05:31.580 when Lindsey, when Trump was really mad at something, Lindsey could kind of walk him back
00:05:35.880 off that cliff a little bit. Lindsey was like, and I spent a lot of time with Lindsey and Trump
00:05:42.980 together, and the bond they had was really special. And it was, in some ways, almost a
00:05:50.580 perfect distillation of his life, that he is in Ukraine, he flies back to the United States,
00:05:56.180 He's on the phone with President Trump.
00:05:58.600 And Sunday morning, he was scheduled to be on Meet the Press.
00:06:01.720 It would have been his 64th appearance on Meet the Press.
00:06:06.120 That's a lot.
00:06:07.580 In politics, by the way, Meet the Press is kind of like Saturday Night Live if you're like a celebrity.
00:06:15.100 Being on Meet the Press, that's a number that I would love to know what that is ranking compared to other Republicans.
00:06:20.340 You've done it a lot, but it's not 60-something times.
00:06:23.020 No, I've done it a lot, but it's nowhere close to that.
00:06:26.180 and I try to be pretty deliberate.
00:06:28.360 I do Sunday shows
00:06:29.800 when I've got a particular message
00:06:32.100 that I'm trying to drive,
00:06:33.660 like when there's a reason,
00:06:34.840 I try to be quite deliberate about doing it.
00:06:37.360 Lindsay, look, I have two teenage daughters.
00:06:40.100 I've got a wife, I've got a family.
00:06:41.720 I want to be back in Texas with my family.
00:06:44.840 And so a Sunday show,
00:06:46.080 there had to be a reason to do it.
00:06:48.200 Lindsay, part of what he was
00:06:49.700 was just a warrior every day.
00:06:51.220 He'd go do the Sunday shows
00:06:52.580 when the news were great.
00:06:53.940 He'd go do the Sunday shows
00:06:55.140 when the news was terrible and like nobody wanted to be out there defending whatever was on fire at
00:06:59.700 that moment and lindsey was like i'll do it and and he would part of it is he would do it in in in
00:07:05.000 a cheerful funny affable way if things were a mess he'd kind of acknowledge yeah they're a mess but
00:07:10.980 you know all right yeah it was i i literally have been been walking around in a daze much of today
00:07:18.580 because i mean i spent a lot of time with lindsey and we would go out and i've been texting you guys
00:07:24.580 By the way, you shared a picture that popped up on your phone.
00:07:27.300 You guys were recently in Paris.
00:07:30.640 And this was just, you know how iPhone kind of randomly picks pictures?
00:07:34.400 Yeah, memories.
00:07:35.040 Now, I'm sort of convinced our phones like spy on us and know everything.
00:07:40.860 Yeah, that is accurate.
00:07:43.180 I agree with you on that one.
00:07:44.760 But bizarrely enough, today, my iPhone kind of midday popped up a picture
00:07:49.880 of me and Lindsay and Katie Britt and Eric Schmidt, all four of us in Paris. And we're on a riverboat
00:07:58.460 and we're right in front of the Eiffel Tower. And we went for the 80th anniversary of D-Day. It was
00:08:02.280 an amazing trip. It was a powerful, beautiful trip with, you know, we got to see these World
00:08:07.880 War II veterans who it's the very tail end of their journey on earth. And the four of us are
00:08:13.540 just arm in arm, and it was just beautiful. And I've been texting and talking to friends and
00:08:21.740 colleagues, and all of us are just going, this doesn't seem real. Real, yeah. I mean, it's,
00:08:30.760 you know, I did an interview with a reporter today who said, who will fill the void? Who
00:08:36.220 will fill Lindsey Graham's shoes? And my answer is nobody. Nobody. The role he played in the Senate
00:08:43.100 he was universally respected but also universally liked and even adored by people who
00:08:50.160 disagreed with him passionately yeah um he could be by the way the guy was as effective a cross
00:08:59.460 examiner as i've ever seen lindsey was a south carolina trial lawyer and he could on the
00:09:05.720 judiciary committee the two real committees together so people understand you guys it wasn't
00:09:12.000 just being like senators together. You guys worked on committees as well. We worked judiciary. We
00:09:17.980 spent thousands of hours together. We were on Senate Armed Services together. We were on foreign
00:09:23.100 relations together. And we just worked hand in hand on a lot of issues. There are issues where
00:09:28.560 we disagreed. Immigration, Lindsay and I were in very different places. But there were a lot of
00:09:33.820 issues. When Lindsay was with you, I don't know that there was a more potent ally in the Senate
00:09:40.780 when he was with you. And it would, he could be, look, it was, I can't count, there are a hundred
00:09:51.800 different Senate Republican lunches when people were having really passionate, sharp disagreements
00:09:57.760 about something. And Lindsey would stand up and say something, and he'd always have a joke,
00:10:02.540 and people would be double over laughing. There'd be times when people are like screaming at each
00:10:05.580 other, almost ready to like, you know, take a swing at each other. And Lindsey would sort of 1.00
00:10:11.340 cut the tension and bring people back to the task at hand. You know, when I'm in D.C. fairly
00:10:20.460 regularly, I'll have dinner with other senators and there's kind of a group of folks that I invite
00:10:24.360 that are sort of the like guys I like hanging out with. And Lindsey was almost the auto invite,
00:10:30.740 because if lindsey showed up at the table your ribs would hurt from laughing and and by the way
00:10:37.940 it wasn't just that he was like telling jokes he was just insightful and smart and he cared
00:10:43.340 look look whether you love this country or not that's one of the things he i don't think people
00:10:48.140 understand how much he loved this country you mentioned he didn't have he wasn't married didn't
00:10:52.260 have kids his family was america his family was defending america i said this this morning on
00:10:58.240 fox and friends he had a grand it was a love story with the united states of america yes i'll tell
00:11:05.260 you it was also with our military so absolutely lindsey spent 33 years in the air force active
00:11:12.140 duty as a colonel don't know that he rose up to being a colonel i did tell him i said lindsey if 0.97
00:11:18.640 the clowns at the pentagon ever try to give you a star damn it i'm going to the floor to filibuster 0.82
00:11:23.720 it i ain't calling you general graham you can be colonel graham yeah but just understand there's a 0.98
00:11:29.800 hard ceiling and and and he basically agreed with me and said yeah i sure hope they don't make me a
00:11:34.820 general they shouldn't i mean i mean that's like a classic he was and i've been with him both in
00:11:42.560 the u.s and abroad where we would meet with servicemen and women and he had a connection
00:11:48.120 to the men and women of the armed services, a love affair, where they loved him, and I would
00:11:56.320 see them come up and hug him, and he viewed it as his mission. I'm going to fight for you. If
00:12:04.200 you're defending this country, if you sign up to be in the military, I'm going to fight ferociously
00:12:09.480 for you and and that was it was real it was sincere it was passionate that was a beautiful
00:12:17.800 thing you know i i think one of the cool things about his services country i've got a lot of
00:12:22.740 friends that signed up after 9-11 and in politics sometimes they get frustrated with people that
00:12:29.500 serve their country and they go to washington and everything is based on well i was in the
00:12:33.260 military and you weren't kind of thing he didn't use his military service that way no no and a lot
00:12:39.440 of people didn't realize that number one he was a colonel uh until he passed away a lot of people
00:12:43.720 didn't realize he was in for 30 years a lot of people didn't realize he was in the reserves
00:12:46.560 while serving his country in congress he he continued to be in the reserves and and to
00:12:52.000 continue to do that but he didn't come in and go well i would i sir it wasn't a trump card for him
00:12:57.360 and it was it was it was he he obviously fought hard for for military and he fought hard for
00:13:04.160 things in the state that were related to military and military complex and bases but it wasn't his
00:13:09.160 number one thing on tv like well let me tell you why because i served and you didn't he didn't use
00:13:14.400 it that way publicly never and a lot and a lot of people that i know that are in the military and
00:13:19.320 have recently retired that gave 20 25 years that's what they liked about him the most well and and
00:13:25.380 And look, to understand Lindsay, he grew up in modest circumstances in South Carolina.
00:13:31.220 He grew up, his parents ran a bar and a pool hall.
00:13:35.320 And part of to understand Lindsay's magic is he was like the best bartender you've ever seen,
00:13:41.840 who would smile and crack a joke.
00:13:44.260 And whether you were celebrating a great thing that happened in your life,
00:13:49.100 or you were there weeping because your wife just divorced you,
00:13:53.260 or you just had a death in the family, and he could, the charm that he brought, the sort of
00:13:59.940 effortless, I remember years ago, I was at a Silver Elephant Dinner, which is the big Republican
00:14:05.960 dinner in South Carolina, and he was speaking there, and at the time, Reince Priebus was the
00:14:12.060 chairman of the RNC, and I think Reince was speaking at that dinner, this was a while ago,
00:14:16.760 but I think Reince was speaking at that dinner, I remember Lindsay got up and went,
00:14:19.560 Reince Priebus. Reince Priebus. What the hell is that? Is that like a French electric car?
00:14:29.920 And like it brought the house down. I mean, he would throw lines out there all the time. 0.98
00:14:38.040 and it was he also had a special gift for I would say earning the trust of and providing
00:14:49.740 really valuable counsel to extraordinarily volatile larger than life figures and two in
00:14:59.160 particular John McCain and Donald Trump yes now look John McCain I served a lot of years with
00:15:05.400 john uh when i arrived in the senate john mccain hated my guts in fact he was quoted as saying i
00:15:11.420 hate his effing guts like john and i battled in a bloody way yes over the years uh john and i
00:15:20.300 became friends but john was you know in in terms of the history of the senate john mccain was one 0.98
00:15:26.860 of those legends who have walked the halls of the senate i disagreed with so many positions john had
00:15:31.080 yeah but but the man was a war hero the man fought for a country he was he was imprisoned
00:15:36.600 in vietnam he was tortured he denied early release i mean he was larger than life
00:15:41.640 yes and he could be volcanic like john's temper was was was real it was real oh i had been on
00:15:50.480 the other end of that you've been on the other end of that and it is let me tell you i the talking
00:15:55.500 twos that i received earlier in my career were brutal when i got them lindsey was john mccain's
00:16:03.020 best friend in the senate and he was the mccain whisperer i mean it was an amazing thing and
00:16:08.320 lindsey would kind of soften john's you know he'd come in and pound the hell out of someone and
00:16:12.940 lindsey'd sort of cut a joke and like you know make it all better yeah it was joe aberman said
00:16:20.280 he spoke democrat and republican well is i think the way he described it he could he could he could
00:16:25.320 and he could speak mccain which was really important and he also speaks trump like look
00:16:31.280 yeah there are times just just like john mccain we get really pissed off there there are times
00:16:36.020 this is no secret when donald trump gets pissed off and when he's angry and he's like on a tear
00:16:40.060 lindsey was we kind of all say lindsey go go on in there and sort of talk him down and lindsey could
00:16:46.160 it was an amazing thing he'd just sort of laugh a little bit and you know trump would yell at him
00:16:53.720 and he'd make Trump laugh, and it would just soften the whole thing. He had a gift for that,
00:16:59.720 and it was not just because he wanted people to like him. He had a gift because he was trying to
00:17:04.900 get these great men. He was trying to move them in what he believed was a positive direction for
00:17:10.740 America, and it was a beautiful thing to watch him do that. I will say, Lindsey, some of y'all
00:17:19.600 who listen to verdict may not know this lindsey graham was the very first guest yes in the history
00:17:25.060 of verdict like when we had just launched this show this show launched on the first night of
00:17:30.820 the very first trump impeachment and the show went from zero look before we launched we had
00:17:37.320 zero viewers zero listeners yeah it skyrocketed up the charts and it became the number one ranked
00:17:43.160 podcast in the world and and as we're doing it and we would do it every night uh the the this
00:17:49.760 this was pb pre-ben yeah this is what i was doing with michael knowles who's a great friend of both
00:17:56.080 of ours yeah and and and it would be every night after the impeachment trial we'd go and do a
00:18:02.900 verdict that night and put it out real time and lindsey came all right i want you to watch the
00:18:09.540 the cold open for our show that Lindsay recorded as our very first guest ever.
00:18:15.260 Yeah. Before we play that, and it's just, it's going to make you laugh. I want to talk to you
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00:20:26.860 All right, take a listen.
00:20:27.880 This is, again, the cold open, Lindsey Graham, the first guest on Verdict back in the day.
00:20:33.600 Hello, I'm Senator Lindsey Graham.
00:20:35.340 Welcome to Verdict with Ted Cruz, the number one podcast in the entire country.
00:20:40.480 What is a podcast?
00:20:49.580 Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz.
00:20:52.160 I'm Michael Knowles.
00:20:52.960 I'm joined by not one but two U.S. senators to help us break down the most shocking day of the
00:20:59.780 entire impeachment trial. Senator Graham, thank you so much for being here. Glad to be here.
00:21:03.820 Gentlemen, the last time that we sat down, I was told this impeachment was going to drag on for
00:21:09.400 weeks. We were going to get witnesses. We were going to get Bolton. We were going to get Hunter
00:21:12.520 Biden. This was going to get long and ugly. I go to sleep. I wake up today and the senators are
00:21:19.080 voting no more witnesses this thing could be over next week senator cruz what happened well today
00:21:24.060 was a big day and let me say lindsey thank you welcome i appreciate your coming this is late at
00:21:29.580 night we spent all day all day spending a lot of money on production well this was you're right
00:21:37.540 yesterday if the vote had gone differently today this trial could have gone on for months we could
00:21:43.460 have seen it drag on and on and on and it was a big deal it was up in the air and today was the
00:21:48.380 most important vote we've had in the entire but by the way i love that even there he cracked a
00:21:53.120 joke he's like you're not spending a lot on production like he had to get a zinger in there
00:21:57.000 that's just what made lindsey lindsey well and and look at the time we were filming verdict in
00:22:03.460 a basement studio about a mile from capitol hill and and so we drove there after the day of the
00:22:09.320 trial it was like midnight and you went to this basement studio you walked in a dark alley and
00:22:14.040 You walk down these, like, concrete stairs.
00:22:17.380 And listen, Lindsay and I at the time were not actually that close of friends.
00:22:21.760 We had been more adversaries than friends.
00:22:24.120 Our friendship developed over the years.
00:22:26.380 And as we're walking down the stairs, he's like, I feel like Joe Pesci in Goodfellas.
00:22:32.180 Are you getting ready to whack me?
00:22:33.560 Because we're, like, walking into a dark basement in the middle of nowhere.
00:22:38.740 And he looks around.
00:22:40.800 in our studio we had this this shag carpet out of the 1970s we had these big old brown leather
00:22:47.580 chairs we had these giant microphones kind of like we still have the giant microphones yeah
00:22:51.280 and he says on the don't forget the cactus don't yeah okay i miss miss our cactus our cactus is
00:22:58.280 still uh our cactus is still part of the verdict family uh but he looked around and he said said
00:23:05.480 this on the podcast he's like you guys are the number one podcast in the world who the hell is
00:23:13.640 number two some guy in a van by the river yeah like it was it was side splitting but but that
00:23:23.100 charm it had real power yes because it would cause people to listen it would break through
00:23:31.160 and listen he was not always joking uh if you were to think uh of the singular moment what is
00:23:40.360 the number one thing people remember that lindsey graham did and i'm going to suggest it was when
00:23:45.380 during the brett kavanaugh confirmation i was going to say no doubt brett kavanaugh and and
00:23:50.720 saving brett kavanaugh from the insanity of the left that were accusing him of the most horrific
00:23:55.880 crimes without any evidence making it up as they went trying to destroy him the same way they went
00:24:01.380 after clarence thomas very much but in a tmz 2020 plus year type of going after him just more vile
00:24:09.000 social media you didn't have that with a clarence thomas right like clarence thomas was abc nbc
00:24:14.400 cnn it was mainstream now they were trying to assassinate brett kavanaugh's integrity and they
00:24:19.920 were using all social media to try to accomplish it. Well, and Lindsey unloaded on the Democrats,
00:24:26.540 and it changed the entire dynamics of the hearing. I want you, most of y'all have seen and heard
00:24:31.920 this, but I want you to give a listen again, because I think there's a real argument without
00:24:36.080 Lindsey doing this. Brett Kavanaugh may not get confirmed. Give a listen to Lindsey at the hearing.
00:24:41.700 Are you aware that at 923, on the night of July the 9th, the day you were nominated
00:24:49.120 to the supreme court by president trump senator schumer said 23 minutes after your nomination
00:24:55.780 i will oppose judge kavanaugh's nomination with everything i have i have a bipartisan and i hope
00:25:02.000 a bipartisan majority will do the same the stakes are simply too high for anything less well if you
00:25:08.980 weren't aware of it you are now did you meet with senator diane feinstein on august 20th i did meet
00:25:15.220 with senator feinstein did you know that her staff had already recommended a lawyer to dr ford
00:25:20.380 i did not know that did you know that her and her staff had this allegations allegations for
00:25:26.540 over 20 days i did not know that at the time if you wanted an fbi investigation you could have
00:25:33.560 come to us what you want to do is destroy this guy's life hold this seat open and hope you win
00:25:40.400 in 2020. You've said that, not me. You've got nothing to apologize for. When you see Sotomayor
00:25:49.360 and Kagan, tell them that Lindsey said, oh, because I voted for them. I would never do to them what
00:25:55.600 you've done to this guy. This is the most unethical sham since I've been in politics.
00:26:04.000 And if you really wanted to know the truth, you sure as hell wouldn't have done what you've done
00:26:08.520 to this guy. Are you a gang rapist? No. I cannot imagine what you and your family have gone 1.00
00:26:16.980 through. Boy, y'all want power. God, I hope you never get it. I hope the American people can see
00:26:22.600 through this sham, that you knew about it and you held it. You had no intention of protecting Dr.
00:26:28.940 Ford. None. She's as much of a victim as you are. God, I hate to say it because these have been my
00:26:36.800 friends but let me tell you when it comes to this you're looking for a fair process you came to the
00:26:44.300 wrong town at the wrong time my friend senator you you look at that frustration that was genuine
00:26:52.120 it wasn't inauthentic it wasn't something that was a a pre-planned moment it wasn't scripted
00:26:58.780 we see a lot of scripted moments from politicians these days and some of these hearings are it's
00:27:03.280 all pre-organized, pre-planned, protesters involved. That was real and raw. And as you
00:27:10.920 mentioned, and I think you should explain a little bit more, this forced and changed the direction
00:27:16.060 that hearing was going. Well, and listen, Lindsey's career, for a lot of his career, he's been a very
00:27:21.960 bipartisan senator. He's worked with a lot of Democrats. As he noted, he voted to confirm both
00:27:27.780 Justice Sotomayor and Justice Kagan. And the Democrats were all happy with him. They were all
00:27:32.780 lovey-dovey. And so when he says, look, I would never do to them what you're doing to Brett
00:27:37.180 Kavanaugh, that had power to it. I was sitting there at the dais when Lindsey was unloading,
00:27:44.100 and you could have heard a pin drop in the room. You know, the silence when he asked Brett Kavanaugh,
00:27:51.420 are you a gang rapist? And Brett says, no. And Lindsey's just silent for about four seconds. 0.98
00:27:59.100 and the entire silence, there's not a peep in the hearing room. That was a riveting moment.
00:28:06.240 And by the way, you mentioned Clarence Thomas. Clarence Thomas is on the Supreme Court because
00:28:10.840 during his confirmation hearing, the Democrats did the same thing, which is they sandbagged him
00:28:15.340 with allegations from Anita Hill. And the American people heard Anita Hill's testimony
00:28:21.680 and Clarence Thomas's, and by a margin of about two to one, they believe Justice Thomas.
00:28:27.280 The same thing happened with Brett Kavanaugh.
00:28:29.640 That's why Clarence Thomas got confirmed.
00:28:31.260 That's why Brett Kavanaugh got confirmed.
00:28:33.200 And Lindsay's, that moment there played, I think, a real part in people assessing and
00:28:37.820 saying, wait a second, this is not a real inquiry.
00:28:41.040 This is not a fair assessment.
00:28:42.780 This is a political slime job.
00:28:45.300 These guys had these allegations for weeks.
00:28:47.540 They sat on them.
00:28:48.380 They held them back.
00:28:49.740 This is a drive-by shooting by partisans who just want power.
00:28:55.220 That that was what was effective. And I'll tell you. So my mom, Ben, you know, my mom, she's I love my mom.
00:29:01.960 She's 91, about to be 92 in November. She is as conservative it can be.
00:29:06.440 My mom thinks you and I are a little wobbly. She is a rock rib conservative.
00:29:12.500 By the way, I don't I don't know if I ever said this on the show.
00:29:15.060 I've never had more fun hanging out with your mom than than your reelection night, watching her be excited, watching her son, not a senator, her son.
00:29:24.200 yeah when re-election and just the beaming joy on her face you weren't there when like in that part
00:29:31.700 you were busy and she she came in and she was just so happy and i was like this might be my
00:29:37.820 favorite moment of the whole night so so my mom prior to the kavanaugh hearing was not a lindsey
00:29:44.580 graham fan she mostly knew lindsey because he and i had battled a lot on immigration we had very
00:29:50.580 different views on immigration and and so that's you know anyone who fights her son my mom doesn't
00:29:54.940 like uh and and so when that cross-examine examination ends my mother sends me a text
00:30:03.800 and says okay i now love lindsey graham and i actually got up a few minutes later and i walked
00:30:14.780 over to lindsey and i pulled out my phone i said lindsey here's a text i just got from my mom and
00:30:20.500 i clicked on it and he cracked up laughing and then my mother proceeded to go to his website
00:30:27.640 uh and to give him 35 are you serious that's so cool i am serious and i told him i said lindsey
00:30:35.600 in my entire time in politics my mother's never contributed to my campaign and she's giving you
00:30:41.940 money like it was and he loved that but it was look he could be when he was engaged in a fight
00:30:51.600 he was as effective a warrior as you could see and and that was powerful and and it was
00:31:01.960 he and i worked together look you look last summer the working families tax cut the big
00:31:08.320 reconciliation bill, which we've talked a lot about on this podcast. I still think it's the
00:31:12.440 legislation that has the most conservative victories in it of any bill that's ever passed
00:31:17.240 into law. Yeah. Lindsay was the chairman of the budget committee and the budget committee plays
00:31:23.360 a critical part in reconciliation. It has to pass the budget resolution to begin with.
00:31:29.280 Lindsay and I worked hand in hand. I don't know that we win that reconciliation battle without
00:31:34.520 lindsey's leadership as chairman of the budget committee and and he would there were times when
00:31:39.780 people are you know look our majority is not always rock solid you have people that run off
00:31:46.260 this way run off that way and and to get 50 votes to yes is really really hard and and and lindsey
00:31:54.000 was was awfully good at it um he was good at making friends he would i i mean that's one of
00:32:02.860 the lost arts and politics i think is is just how good he was at making friends and and making
00:32:09.180 friends that he disagreed with in his own party and making friends the other side but he also had
00:32:14.680 just a way of understanding when there's moments to laugh and not i i told this earlier i was young
00:32:20.580 i don't i don't think i've ever told you this story i was it was probably 2005 or 6 7 somewhere
00:32:27.340 in there and it was still something deal with Iraq or Afghanistan and I was on I think it was
00:32:32.940 Shepard Smith's show on Fox back in the day and they asked me directly about Lindsey Graham and
00:32:38.920 something he'd said they played the thought come out of it they asked me and I was pretty blunt
00:32:43.420 and I was like I strongly disagree with him yada yada yada I get done and it was one of those you
00:32:49.140 don't know it's coming moments welcome to live tv and so I gave my assessment I get done
00:32:53.860 senator within probably a minute i was not out of the seat yet my phone rings now if you're 20
00:33:01.960 something and your phone rings and it's a senator like that's like it's you know you answer right
00:33:06.740 so i answer it it's 202 number and it's lindsey graham i don't know who he got my number from
00:33:11.640 and i answer and he starts just unloading on me telling me why i'm wrong but it was all a ruse
00:33:19.100 he was messing with me because he was down the hall in the green room at fox knowing he was going
00:33:25.000 to see me in 20 seconds so i'm on the phone walking out of the studio and it's you know the
00:33:29.740 hallway there it's a short hallway you go down makeup's on the left green room's on the right
00:33:33.180 and i'm hearing the conversation in my ear delayed and i'm hearing his voice and i walk in and we'd
00:33:40.100 never met before like never had met before that moment and i'm on the phone with him and he looks
00:33:45.120 him he goes gotcha and that was it like he didn't mind that was ripping on him and i walked in there
00:33:50.600 we laughed and he talked to me for a minute but he literally just wanted to mess with me like it
00:33:54.700 was like the perfect you know joke there and that's how he was but like after that it was hard
00:34:00.040 he was smart it was harder for me to go after him on tv because i liked him personally from that
00:34:06.660 moment of him he could have been a jerk he wasn't he saw the humor in the moment and was like i'm
00:34:12.240 to mess with this guy and it was it was a brilliant political move and that's who lindsey was 0.93
00:34:17.960 i don't know a single senator out of 99 other senators who who didn't didn't like genuinely
00:34:27.140 like lindsey and consider him a friend like all of them and it was a gift and by the way i've been
00:34:32.360 in senate lunches and we've talked about a lot of those senate lunches on this podcast
00:34:35.660 where things got raw and bare knuckles. 0.83
00:34:38.960 And on foreign policy, look, Lindsay was an interventionist.
00:34:44.980 He was an aggressive interventionist in the style of John McCain.
00:34:48.260 He believed it.
00:34:48.920 It was honest, but he was very much an interventionist.
00:34:51.760 We've had lunches where Lindsay and Rand Paul would scream at each other.
00:34:56.200 And Lindsay, Rand is very much an isolationist.
00:34:58.960 Lindsay's an interventionist.
00:34:59.540 Isolationist interventionist.
00:35:00.220 And they couldn't be farther apart.
00:35:01.680 And by the way, I'm in the middle of both of them.
00:35:03.880 I agree with Lindsey about half the time and Rand about half the time.
00:35:08.320 I've also been in lunches where Lindsey and J.D. Vance would be screaming at each other.
00:35:13.800 J.D. is much more of an isolationist and disagreed with Lindsey like on Ukraine.
00:35:19.880 I mean, they would go at it where J.D. Vance wanted us to get the hell out of Ukraine yesterday.
00:35:26.360 Lindsey was passionate on the other side and they would slug it out.
00:35:29.160 You know, J.D. put out a very kind and gracious tweet today, actually telling that story, saying, look, you know, Lindsey has yelled at me, but I respected him and he was my friend.
00:35:38.340 And actually, I saw a clip today that I've never seen before.
00:35:42.620 So Blake Masters, Blake Masters ran for Senate in Arizona.
00:35:47.300 I like Blake.
00:35:48.200 I went and campaigned for him.
00:35:49.920 He didn't win.
00:35:50.780 I wish Blake had won, but he did not.
00:35:53.080 And, you know, Blake is is more on the isolation side of things.
00:35:57.520 He's more with with Rand and JD. And on Ukraine, he was a vocal opponent of the Ukraine conflict.
00:36:03.040 And it's interesting. Lindsey went to campaign for Blake and and they asked him, well, wait a second.
00:36:10.760 You guys disagree on Ukraine. I want you to listen to Lindsey's response as the he's there campaigning for a guy with whom he has sharp disagreements on foreign policy.
00:36:20.840 Give a listen. Remember my race. Remember Lindsey Graham dot com.
00:36:24.300 Does anybody watch Sean Hannity?
00:36:27.660 So I was on Sean Hannity three nights a week, Blake,
00:36:31.560 saying they're going to shoot my dog tomorrow at midnight if you don't give me my dog.
00:36:38.420 I know you're living on cat food, but you can spare a few bucks here.
00:36:43.780 People responded.
00:36:45.740 My opponent raised $132 million against me,
00:36:49.480 the most in the history of the Senate, Matt.
00:36:51.920 Why? Because of Kavanaugh.
00:36:53.620 they hated my guts. They wanted to destroy the guy's life. I sort of got in the way. 0.85
00:36:59.900 That's the way these people are, right? There's nothing they won't do for power.
00:37:04.940 So the reason people responded to me is you don't have to agree with me all the time,
00:37:09.480 but when there's a fight, I will show up. He shows up. He's not lying when he says that.
00:37:15.140 Yeah. And look, he would joke all the time. Like when he was running for re-election the last time,
00:37:20.040 I mean, he would go on Hannity, he'd go on Fox News, and he'd say lindseygram.com, lindseygram.com, lindseygram.com, and he was shameless.
00:37:27.700 I mean, he was like, hi, my name is lindseygram.com.
00:37:30.020 He would raise money, and he'd say, if you're a little old lady and you're trying to feed your cat, don't feed your cat tonight.
00:37:35.740 Go and give me money instead.
00:37:37.420 And people would crack up, but they would do it.
00:37:40.700 So Blake Masters, who lost that race, he tweeted out that video, but here's what he said in his tweet, which is interesting.
00:37:46.560 Blake said, quote, once when a donor asked, Senator Graham, why are you helping Blake, given how much you two disagree on foreign policy?
00:37:58.380 He replied with a grin. So Blake's wrong about Ukraine. Who gives a shit?
00:38:05.840 We aren't here to talk about how correct I am all the time. 0.99
00:38:09.740 We're here to talk about getting the Senate majority because I want to be chairman of my committees.
00:38:16.560 And Blake continues, Lindsey was cheerful and determined, and he understood that he played a team sport.
00:38:23.440 May his memory be eternal.
00:38:25.320 That's pure Lindsey Graham.
00:38:26.760 He could disagree with you, and Lord knows he and I did, but it wasn't personally, wasn't angry with you.
00:38:35.160 And that sort of joy, look, it is amazing the number of times, you look at his relationship with Trump.
00:38:41.640 Lindsey was a huge Trump critic.
00:38:44.900 Yeah, ran against him.
00:38:46.560 ran against him said he was going to destroy the world uh but by the way you look at me all right
00:38:52.140 so in the presidential look lindsey ran against trump ran against me and in the course of that
00:38:56.180 campaign lindsey said you you know if if you killed ted on the senate floor and the senate was
00:39:04.480 the jury nobody could convict you i gotta admit that that was funny as hell i like laughed i'm
00:39:10.780 like, all right, that's a hell of a line. Now, Lindsey ended up not prevailing in that race,
00:39:16.640 obviously, dropped out. And after Lindsey dropped out, he endorsed my campaign. So he came and
00:39:21.500 endorsed my campaign and he campaigned with me for president 2016. And Lindsey said at the time,
00:39:27.680 he and I were doing a fundraiser together. And I stood up and I said, you know, I got to say,
00:39:32.360 this is the first time in my life I've ever been endorsed by someone who's publicly called for my
00:39:38.320 murder. And that was kind of how Lindsey was. He had, you know, in the same time, you know,
00:39:47.400 he and Trump would battle like crazy, but Trump just liked him. And it was real. And Lindsey
00:39:53.480 liked Trump. Lindsey saw the power. Look, Trump has a cast iron backbone. He has courage. And
00:40:02.340 And Lindsey saw the historic value of President Trump's strength, and it was really important.
00:40:11.480 Now, all right, I'll give you another story from first-term Trump.
00:40:15.600 We were having a dispute about funding the border wall, and the president wanted to sign
00:40:21.120 and was going to sign an emergency declaration and use the emergency powers of the president
00:40:26.020 to shift funding to the border wall.
00:40:28.740 I came up with a different legal theory that would let him build the border wall, let him build every penny of the border wall, 100 percent, but not do it through an emergency declaration.
00:40:38.180 And my concern was, look, if you create the precedent for doing this, the next Democrat president, the next if we have a president, Bernie Sanders or President Elizabeth Warren, they're going to declare an emergency on climate change.
00:40:50.860 They're going to declare an emergency on gun violence and use it to justify all sorts of bad policies.
00:40:55.460 So I had a second theory that would have done 100 percent of the upside without the downside of the bad president.
00:41:02.240 And I pitched it to Lindsey and Lindsey was like, yeah, that makes sense.
00:41:06.340 And so Lindsey and I spent a day trying to call the president and pitch this theory.
00:41:12.560 And at the time, the White House staff did not want Lindsey and me to talk to the president.
00:41:17.520 So they were blocking us. They were preventing us from getting through to the president.
00:41:21.280 The oldest trick in Washington is that one right there.
00:41:24.360 and so we were sitting there it was getting to be maybe 7 7 30 at night we were on the senate floor
00:41:31.740 and we were both frustrated because for 24 hours we'd been calling the president we hadn't gotten
00:41:35.980 through and i finally said to lindsey screw it let's get in the car and drive over there he's
00:41:41.040 like what and i'm like yeah let's just go over there right now he's like all right let's go
00:41:44.360 and then oddly enough a third senator jumped in the car ben sass who was another friend but he
00:41:49.800 just kind of standing there and ben's like oh i'll go and so the three of us drove over and
00:41:55.540 we're literally we're not invited we're uninvited we're just you're not on the list and by the way
00:41:59.320 people need to understand there's two gates you go through and if you're not on the list they look
00:42:03.860 at you like you're an alien okay so we're driving over and and and lindsey calls and actually gets
00:42:10.120 trump on the phone as we're driving over and he's like yeah we're coming over right now and trump 0.89
00:42:15.180 was getting ready to have dinner with Melania. And it was like their first like couple's dinner,
00:42:21.940 a romantic dinner in like a month. And Lindsay's like, no, we need to see you right now.
00:42:26.860 And so we go up to the residence and Trump is pissed. He is madder than a hornet because like
00:42:33.640 his whole date night has been blown up by us going over to the White House. And so we come
00:42:39.600 over there and we're up in the residence and Trump brings up a couple of lawyers from the
00:42:44.540 White House counsel's office. And they're smart guys, but they were on the other side of this.
00:42:49.240 And we begin arguing. And I got to say, look, Lindsey could judge the prevailing winds really 1.00
00:42:53.820 quickly. And he could see that Trump was not buying what I was selling that particular night.
00:42:59.760 So Lindsey very quickly abandons me. He just jumps out and he goes and sits with Trump.
00:43:05.420 And I'm arguing with this lawyer from the White House counsel. I mean, we are slugging it out.
00:43:09.660 I mean, it's it was a bare knuckle fight.
00:43:14.360 And Lindsey turns to Trump and said, who do you think is winning?
00:43:18.720 How are they doing?
00:43:20.100 And like Trump's kind of laughing and they're almost like color commentators watching us have this legal argument.
00:43:26.700 And then in the middle of it, Trump calls one of the staff of the White House and says, bring us some of those pigs in a blanket, those those those little hors d'oeuvres. 0.58
00:43:35.000 So they bring a plate of pigs in the blanket.
00:43:36.860 and this goes on for like three hours no so you you guys straight up trumped the date night
00:43:43.880 yeah it blew up the date night we ended up not being persuasive that night although i will say
00:43:49.540 lindsey cut me loose so fast and he and he jumped but but he didn't like he admitted afterwards he's
00:43:56.700 like yeah you weren't winning so i wasn't gonna be with that he's like i'll be behind you way
00:43:59.920 way way way behind you right behind you yeah around the corner but it was the sort of thing
00:44:05.160 that's that was very much Lindsey Graham and it's part of why Trump listened to him because he
00:44:13.240 didn't win every argument but he was there to go again and to go again and and it was really
00:44:19.520 effective and I'll tell you where it mattered enormously there's no area Lindsey and I worked 0.98
00:44:25.300 more closely on than Iran and standing up to the incredible danger to America if the Ayatollah ever 0.90
00:44:34.540 gets a nuclear weapon. I think it's an existential threat to America. I think if the Ayatollah 0.96
00:44:39.000 who chants death to America gets a nuclear weapon, I think the odds are unacceptably high
00:44:45.220 that hundreds of thousands or even millions of Americans would be murdered. And Lindsey agreed
00:44:49.900 with that. And he and I worked hand in hand over and over and over again, talking with President
00:44:57.060 Trump every week, sometimes every day, saying you're exactly right to stand up to Iran. The 0.93
00:45:03.800 president has said repeatedly, Iran will never get a nuclear weapon. There will be zero enrichment.
00:45:08.000 And Lindsey was an incredible ally that I was fighting alongside. And the president listened
00:45:16.520 to us, which is part of why we've seen the president's incredible strong leadership 0.72
00:45:23.340 taking out Iran's military capacity and stopping them from getting nuclear weapons. 0.76
00:45:29.140 That was one of the most important legacies Lindsey ever had. 0.91
00:45:32.880 It's really incredible.
00:45:34.220 We're going to do something really fun this week as well.
00:45:36.140 That first podcast that you did, your first guest was Lindsey Graham.
00:45:40.840 We are going to put that out this week, so look for that on the feed as well.
00:45:45.060 Senator, I'm so glad you got to talk about your friend.
00:45:47.780 I mean this so sincerely.
00:45:49.440 I'm so sorry for your loss.
00:45:50.680 When you lose a friend, I've lost too many.
00:45:53.140 You lose them, especially if it's a sudden like this.
00:45:55.140 It is gut-wrenching.
00:45:56.980 Hug your family.
00:45:58.360 Hug your friends.
00:45:59.320 Call your friends.
00:46:00.340 Check on your friends.
00:46:01.220 I say that often to people, you just never know, and I'm glad you got to spend so much
00:46:07.440 quality time with him.
00:46:09.120 Well, he will be missed.
00:46:10.960 He left a legacy that was extraordinary, and I will say, whether you agreed with him or
00:46:18.880 disagreed with him, Lindsey loved this country, and he devoted every waking moment of his
00:46:27.200 life to fighting for this country.
00:46:28.540 That was his mission.
00:46:30.100 And I admired that. I admired that it was real. It was genuine. And he made a profound difference. It is a good reminder. Lindsay was just 71 years old. He was full of energy and vigor. To be honest, if I were to pick one of my colleagues who was not going to make it, Lindsay would not have been on the list.
00:46:51.440 He had the energy that he was unstoppable in energy.
00:46:58.440 And it's a good reminder to all of us that none of us are guaranteed to be here tomorrow.
00:47:03.240 So hug your family, hug your kids, and say thanks to God for the privilege of living
00:47:10.720 in a time of consequence and making a difference in our country.
00:47:14.120 And I will say this, Lindsey Graham made an enormous difference for our country.
00:47:18.520 Amen to that.
00:47:19.520 Senator Cruz and I will see you back here in a couple of days.
00:47:22.920 We'll put out that podcast with Lindsey Graham as well.
00:47:26.200 So you can, if you missed it, you can hear it or you can watch it.
00:47:29.580 And to Lindsey Graham's family, friends, we're thinking about them as well.
00:47:34.560 God bless you guys.
00:47:35.500 And we'll see you back here in a couple of days.
00:47:37.840 Why should you listen to Armstrong and Getty On Demand?
00:47:41.200 We're not boring.
00:47:42.280 A lot of news is boring.
00:47:43.180 And tedious.
00:47:44.180 And depressing.
00:47:44.780 And makes you angry.
00:47:46.140 You don't want to live your life like that.
00:47:48.000 Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong. He's Joe Getty.
00:47:50.100 We're Armstrong and Getty.
00:47:51.220 We try to bring you the truth.
00:47:52.380 And help you figure out this crazy modern world.
00:47:54.760 How about something about a comedic tone?
00:47:59.200 We have a winner.
00:48:00.760 Yes.
00:48:01.780 Listen to Armstrong and Getty on demand on the iHeartRadio app,
00:48:04.860 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:48:07.960 The Joel Osteen Daily Podcast.
00:48:10.380 God's plans for you are for good.
00:48:12.580 Be inspired.
00:48:13.580 Get ready. God is about to exceed your expectations.
00:48:16.900 Joel Osteen Daily Podcast.
00:48:19.540 You are coming out of that dry place into more than enough.
00:48:22.740 Daily encouragement right when you need it.
00:48:25.080 There are opportunities in your future bigger than you can imagine.
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