00:01:57.920Remember back in 2014, when Obama was president, Russia invaded Ukraine, invaded what's called Crimea.
00:02:04.660And Russia and Ukraine have been in real tension.
00:02:07.480The Ukrainians don't like that the Russians have had a bad history of riding in with tanks and invading their country.
00:02:13.460And so we've given them military aid, and what the Democrats are arguing is the president delayed that military aid in exchange for asking Ukraine to launch two investigations.
00:02:26.620One, an investigation into whether Ukraine had interfered in the 2016 presidential election, the election between Trump and Hillary.
00:02:33.940And two, an investigation into Burisma, which is a Ukrainian natural gas company, on whose board, Hunter Biden, Joe Biden's son, sat.
00:02:47.460They'd paid Biden a whole lot of money.
00:02:50.000And it was not for his expertise in Ukrainian natural gas.
00:02:59.720That Trump was withholding military aid, and he wasn't going to release the aid until they launched an investigation into the Bidens because he is afraid that he's going to run against Joe Biden in 2020.
00:03:11.300And they've spent almost every minute of the last 22 hours trying to prove those two points.
00:03:51.480They're standing up there arguing over and over again.
00:03:54.060The president wanted Ukraine to investigate, and Trump has said on live TV over and over again, yes, I wanted Ukraine to investigate.
00:04:02.620We've seen the transcripts from this phone call with the president of Ukraine, right?
00:04:07.400This was released – I know most people's eyes glaze over when everyone gets into the weeds over what he did with Ukraine and is that impeachable and on and on and on.
00:04:16.140But I think we all basically agree on the facts of the case, which is they withheld the aid, then they released the aid.
00:04:24.920President Trump did ask for an investigation by Ukraine into this corruption.
00:04:28.440And I guess what doesn't make sense to me is they impeached the president for this, except Ukraine got the aid, and we never got an investigation into the corruption.
00:04:40.400Well, and it's even – you're right on both of those points, but even more broadly.
00:04:44.960So it's – the narrative from the House Democrats has changed.
00:04:48.680You remember there was – for a couple of months we were hearing over and over again the phrase quid pro quo.
00:04:53.360Right. Quid pro quo is the sort of phrase – look, most people don't know what quid pro quo means.
00:04:59.160It's a Latin phrase. It sounds kind of scary.
00:05:03.840This would surprise anyone who's turning on the 6 o'clock news because the media were breathlessly saying, my God, this may have been a quid pro quo.
00:05:14.400So quid pro quo is Latin for an exchange of something of value for something else of value.
00:05:20.400Well, it means literally this for that, right?
00:05:43.600Nicolas Maduro is the dictator of Venezuela right now.
00:05:46.960We have sanctions, economic sanctions in place against Venezuela.
00:05:51.560We have said if Maduro steps down, we'll lift those sanctions.
00:05:55.500That's a quid pro quo. It's out and it's open.
00:05:58.320We're lifting sanctions if Maduro steps down.
00:06:01.160You look at Obama's Iran nuclear deal. That was a quid pro quo.
00:06:04.620Obama gave over $100 billion to Iran in exchange for a promise not to develop nuclear weapons.
00:06:11.000Now, that's a promise they weren't keeping and they used the money to try to kill Americans.
00:06:15.060But that was a quid pro quo. So all of this focus on was this a quid pro quo misses the point.
00:06:22.660The question is whether it was done with corrupt intent.
00:06:27.740And that all comes down to whether these investigations, whether the president had a valid reason to ask Ukraine to engage in these investigations.
00:06:55.940And what is interesting now, two days into it, is they've devoted virtually every moment to trying to prove that he asked for the investigations, which he admits.
00:07:06.380Which we already know. This is something we all agree on.
00:07:09.160And almost zero to proving that asking for the investigations was illegitimate or inappropriate.
00:07:17.060Well, this is what I want to get to. So you've now had to sit through 22 hours of this because there are three groups here, right?
00:07:23.720There's there are the House Democrats. They're being led by Adam Schiff.
00:07:27.460And they're the people who are pushing impeachment.
00:07:30.100There's President Trump's legal team, the White House counsel and his lawyer.
00:07:33.480And they're the ones defending the president.
00:07:35.800Then there's the jury because this is a trial.
00:07:38.420And this is a special jury because the jury is you guys.
00:07:42.340The senators are the jury in the impeachment trial.
00:07:45.200Well, you've been listening to this and let me correct you briefly on something.
00:07:49.200Yes, the senators are the jury, but oddly enough, we're also the judges.
00:07:53.080And it's a strange dynamic under the Constitution.
00:07:56.220The hundred senators decide every question of law and every question of fact.
00:08:00.620And it's not a jury like, you know, if you turn on law and order, it's not a jury like that.
00:08:04.780You think about it, a jury is not supposed to know anything about the case, is not supposed to know the defendant, is not supposed to know the prosecutor, is not supposed to have conversations.
00:08:13.180In this case, senators, look, senators deal with the president, deal with the president all the time.
00:08:19.280The framers knew that when the Constitution gave impeachment to the Senate, they knew fully well senators would be dealing with players, would be involved, would be speaking to the public.
00:08:29.300And so actually, I will point out that the president did tweet out this very podcast today.
00:08:35.600So obviously, there is some relationship there.
00:08:39.560When Bill Clinton had an impeachment trial, there was actually an objection.
00:08:45.080So one of the people in the trial referred to the senators as jurors, and they raise an objection.
00:08:51.860And Chief Justice William Rehnquist, who's the chief justice, sustained the objection and said, you're right, you're not jurors, you're senators, and it's a different responsibility under the Constitution.
00:09:01.000Because, not to get even more complicated here, but there is a fourth role, which is that the chief justice of the Supreme Court, head of the Supreme Court, is presiding over impeachment.
00:09:14.100But he's not quite a normal judge, and the jury is not quite a normal jury.
00:09:18.940And that is because an impeachment trial is unlike other kinds of trials.
00:10:32.140I thought they both presented their case.
00:10:33.740When you and I talked last night, I shared my views that I think the White House lawyers need to focus less on process and more on substance,
00:10:43.060more on demonstrating why the president is innocent, why the conduct that he admits to is not illegal, is not inappropriate,
00:10:50.960and is perfectly legitimate and justified for a president to investigate corruption
00:10:55.420and to ask a foreign government to investigate corruption, that they need to make more of the affirmative case.
00:11:01.020You've argued a lot of high-profile cases.
00:11:02.880So what you're saying is maybe we're missing a little bit of the 30,000-foot view.
00:11:08.660We're missing a little bit of the big picture from the White House.
00:11:11.400You can get lost in the weeds, and it's easy to do it.
00:11:14.700And I don't want that to happen to the American people.
00:25:19.660But I've got to admit, last night, so I will say, when we were there at 2 in the morning, I was asking Chuck Grassley, you know, Iowa farmer, 86 years old.