Verdict with Ted Cruz - So Help Me God

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.500 Guaranteed human.

00:00:05.080 Judge Amy Coney Barrett has become Justice Amy Coney Barrett

00:00:09.560 after a confirmation vote in the Senate

00:00:12.000 and a wonderful ceremony,

00:00:14.260 it seemed like just minutes later,

00:00:16.160 over at the White House.

00:00:17.800 How is this going to affect the bench

00:00:19.440 for the next 10, 20, 30,

00:00:22.740 who knows how many years?

00:00:24.040 We will find out.

00:00:25.200 And almost of equal importance,

00:00:27.680 how will this affect the vote in less than two weeks?

00:00:31.780 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:00:38.940 Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:00:40.860 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:00:42.500 I wish that I were in Washington right now

00:00:45.220 because it sounds like it has been a whirlwind past two days.

00:00:49.720 Senator, I know that you voted on Justice Barrett

00:00:53.240 earlier yesterday.

00:00:54.420 Then it seemed to went straight to the White House

00:00:56.560 for her confirmation ceremony

00:00:59.660 with Justice Thomas and the president

00:01:01.720 within, what, half an hour or an hour after that.

00:01:04.780 Could you just take us through,

00:01:06.080 we know that she's on the bench now,

00:01:07.520 could you take us through how it all unfolded?

00:01:09.760 So, sure.

00:01:10.300 So, yesterday was a big deal.

00:01:12.980 It was historic.

00:01:14.380 The confirmation vote itself was

00:01:17.080 about 8 o'clock at night, Monday night.

00:01:20.340 It was teed up, so we voted at 1 p.m. on Sunday

00:01:24.720 on what's called cloture,

00:01:26.840 which is the vote to end debate on a nomination.

00:01:30.020 And so we invoked cloture Sunday at 1 p.m.

00:01:34.200 And then there's a 30-hour rule

00:01:36.080 that the nomination is 30 hours after that vote.

00:01:39.120 So we voted 1 p.m. on Sunday.

00:01:41.440 So then Monday night was supposed to be about 7 p.m.,

00:01:45.080 ended up being about 8 p.m.

00:01:46.380 So we all gather on the Senate floor.

00:01:52.560 The Republicans are all there,

00:01:55.120 and the only Democrat on the floor is Chuck Schumer.

00:01:58.680 And Schumer is, when I come and sit at my desk,

00:02:02.740 Schumer is pontificating about how he intends

00:02:05.540 to burn the country down, and you will rue the day.

00:02:09.560 I don't know if he actually said you will rue the day,

00:02:11.620 but that was kind of his whole theme,

00:02:13.320 is you will rue the day.

00:02:14.360 And we're going to be even worse.

00:02:17.800 But it was an odd thing,

00:02:19.660 because all the Democrats were missing.

00:02:21.720 So it's the Republicans listening to Schumer lecture us.

00:02:25.280 So we sat there for, I don't know,

00:02:27.560 10, 15 minutes listening to him go on and on.

00:02:30.340 He finishes, and then Mitch McConnell

00:02:32.860 gets ready to give his speech.

00:02:34.900 And Schumer leaves, like he walks off the floor.

00:02:37.540 So not a single Democrat is on the Senate floor

00:02:41.640 while Mitch is speaking.

00:02:42.520 And by the way, I thought Mitch gave a very good speech.

00:02:44.520 I told him afterwards, I thought it was the best speech

00:02:45.960 I've ever heard him give,

00:02:47.140 because it was sort of a very reasonable assessment

00:02:49.760 of how the Democrats have abused the confirmation process

00:02:53.400 and how what Republicans were doing

00:02:56.840 is consistent with how the Senate has operated for 200 years.

00:03:00.620 So Mitch gives his speech 20 minutes or so,

00:03:03.440 and we're all sitting there listening to him.

00:03:04.780 Interestingly enough, by the way,

00:03:08.260 most of Mitch's speech, he's turned around

00:03:11.140 and kind of talking to the other Republican senators,

00:03:14.060 which is odd, because if you're on the floor,

00:03:15.980 you're usually talking to a TV camera.

00:03:17.340 You're talking to C-SPAN.

00:03:18.880 So I guess the image from C-SPAN,

00:03:20.800 I haven't seen the TV cut, but it's kind of his back,

00:03:23.520 because he's like turning around and talking to us.

00:03:26.520 Why do you think he was doing that?

00:03:27.940 Why did he change position?

00:03:28.880 I think he was very much trying to address,

00:03:32.360 I don't know if it was wobbly votes.

00:03:34.160 I don't think there were any votes

00:03:35.420 that were wobbly at that point,

00:03:36.820 but it was more just sort of, I think,

00:03:39.120 assuaging the Republicans

00:03:40.880 that all of this apocalyptic talk on the left

00:03:44.980 isn't right or accurate.

00:03:47.760 So all the Democrats skip, boycott Mitch's speech.

00:03:53.520 Then Mitch finishes,

00:03:55.860 and Schumer, who's hiding in the Democratic cloakroom,

00:03:58.320 he sticks his head out and says,

00:04:00.900 there isn't a quorum.

00:04:02.320 And technically what you do is,

00:04:04.040 so he sits in the back, pulls out his mic,

00:04:05.560 and says, I suggest the absence of a quorum.

00:04:08.100 The clerk starts calling the roll,

00:04:10.600 and actually Chuck Grassley,

00:04:13.860 who's the most senior senator,

00:04:15.840 who's the president pro tem,

00:04:16.880 he took the chair, and he looked around,

00:04:19.680 every Republican was sitting in our damn chairs. 0.71

00:04:21.820 I mean, you could look around

00:04:22.580 and see that we were all there.

00:04:24.360 So Grassley just rules, there is a quorum,

00:04:26.760 which I kind of appreciated

00:04:29.460 that he didn't make us actually

00:04:30.680 all physically say present,

00:04:32.420 because every one of us could see each other.

00:04:35.680 Right.

00:04:36.540 What was funny is during that quorum call,

00:04:40.780 Michigan Senator Debbie Stabenow

00:04:42.700 stepped onto the floor,

00:04:45.760 and I guess she just didn't get the message

00:04:48.280 that they were all boycotting,

00:04:50.160 and one of the Senate floor staffers

00:04:52.420 rushed over to her,

00:04:53.520 like, no, no, no, no, Senator,

00:04:54.700 you've got to get out, you've got to get out,

00:04:55.880 and so she turns around and runs out. 0.96

00:04:57.140 There's no voting here, this is the Senate.

00:04:59.220 You can't, you've got to get out of here

00:05:00.440 if you're a Democrat.

00:05:01.740 They were making a sort of petulant statement

00:05:04.780 that we're really mad by all boycotting,

00:05:08.200 and then when we finally got to the vote,

00:05:10.560 and the vote kicked in,

00:05:12.560 we each vote,

00:05:13.940 and so for the Republicans,

00:05:16.280 we're all sitting in our seat,

00:05:17.300 and when they call your name,

00:05:18.200 you stand up and say aye,

00:05:19.760 and 52 of the 53 voted aye.

00:05:22.480 The Democrats,

00:05:23.700 you know what was fascinating, Michael,

00:05:25.020 is most of the Democrats

00:05:26.200 didn't call out their vote nay.

00:05:30.040 They would just kind of quietly go up

00:05:31.840 and signal to the clerk

00:05:32.740 they were voting no,

00:05:34.440 which actually is how you normally vote

00:05:36.300 on most issues.

00:05:37.180 You normally,

00:05:37.880 it's very rare for us to be in our seats

00:05:39.900 and sort of vote vocally,

00:05:42.760 but in that sort of circumstance,

00:05:44.100 I thought it was fascinating.

00:05:47.760 Maisie Hirono walked down

00:05:49.420 and was captured on C-SPAN voting hell no,

00:05:53.260 which I don't necessarily even falter.

00:05:55.580 I get that she's impassioned on that.

00:05:58.280 She's impassioned, yeah.

00:05:59.580 But then the vote was over,

00:06:01.620 and Justice Barrett was confirmed,

00:06:06.720 and at that point,

00:06:07.840 actually, there was a standing ovation

00:06:09.920 as the Senate Republicans

00:06:10.920 all burst into applause.

00:06:13.160 We then went,

00:06:14.080 there was a little press conference

00:06:15.680 in a room in the Capitol

00:06:18.720 that's called the LBJ room.

00:06:20.680 So we had TV cameras set up there.

00:06:23.440 A number of us went up

00:06:24.160 and talked to the cameras

00:06:25.080 and then jumped in a car

00:06:27.440 and headed to the White House

00:06:28.380 for the swearing-in ceremony

00:06:29.560 that was immediately thereafter.

00:06:31.460 That sounds like a wonderful night.

00:06:33.780 It all went off without a hitch,

00:06:34.960 and I have to say,

00:06:36.240 I, Senator,

00:06:37.240 I was wrong in my prediction.

00:06:39.040 You were right in your prediction

00:06:40.380 because I assumed

00:06:42.020 there was going to be

00:06:42.960 some last-minute surprise

00:06:45.140 that was going to come up

00:06:46.080 and they were going to try

00:06:46.860 to make a big deal out of Barrett.

00:06:48.900 And you said at least,

00:06:50.380 what was it,

00:06:50.700 a week or two weeks ago,

00:06:51.520 three weeks ago,

00:06:52.060 you said the Democrats realized

00:06:54.440 that Judge Barrett

00:06:55.280 is going to be Justice Barrett.

00:06:56.880 They've basically surrendered this fight.

00:06:59.460 Was there anything left for them to do

00:07:01.060 or they just,

00:07:01.720 they had no cards to play?

00:07:03.300 Look, they tried to take some shots

00:07:04.800 at her in the hearing.

00:07:06.200 She was really good.

00:07:08.080 And they realized

00:07:09.760 every minute the American people

00:07:12.340 spent listening to Judge Barrett,

00:07:14.540 this calm, cool, collected,

00:07:16.920 serious, her temperament,

00:07:19.100 scholarly, judicial,

00:07:21.360 defending the Constitution,

00:07:23.400 they were losing

00:07:24.520 when the American people

00:07:25.660 were hearing her.

00:07:27.120 And so they decided,

00:07:28.840 you know, there's one exchange.

00:07:31.580 Do you remember

00:07:31.880 when Dick Durbin

00:07:32.940 blasts her on race 1.00

00:07:35.140 and how did you feel

00:07:36.040 when George Floyd,

00:07:37.720 when that video broke,

00:07:40.500 became public?

00:07:42.380 And she pointed out to him,

00:07:44.400 she said,

00:07:44.720 look, I do have

00:07:45.540 two black children.

00:07:47.960 And like, you know,

00:07:48.860 we cried over it.

00:07:50.220 And you could see Durbin's face

00:07:52.720 of like abject terror

00:07:55.080 of, oh crap.

00:07:56.460 And I have to admit,

00:07:57.380 I thought of the Monty Python

00:07:59.440 skit, run away, run away, 0.82

00:08:04.040 as quickly Durbin realized,

00:08:05.620 okay, this is not,

00:08:07.160 the usual democratic demagoguery

00:08:09.640 is not really working on this.

00:08:12.540 And so I think they decided

00:08:13.960 to get out of Dodge.

00:08:15.540 They didn't have the votes,

00:08:17.140 but Schumer's speech

00:08:18.600 was all about

00:08:19.340 throwing down the marker.

00:08:20.340 And we talked about this

00:08:21.400 on our last podcast,

00:08:22.940 but throwing down the marker,

00:08:24.960 if they win next Tuesday,

00:08:28.160 they intend to pack the court.

00:08:29.760 And that was what

00:08:31.240 Schumer's speech was all about,

00:08:33.400 is if Democrats win,

00:08:37.600 Katie barred the door. 1.00

00:08:39.120 Right.

00:08:39.420 You saw the New York Times

00:08:40.460 almost immediately

00:08:41.200 after the vote publish

00:08:42.220 about half a dozen columns

00:08:44.100 saying we need to pack the courts,

00:08:46.100 we need to change the way

00:08:46.900 the courts are set up.

00:08:48.040 Joe Biden came out

00:08:48.920 and he said,

00:08:49.500 I'm not willing to institute

00:08:51.320 term limits on the court.

00:08:52.940 But I would be willing

00:08:53.920 to move judges

00:08:55.060 from the Supreme Court

00:08:56.240 to other courts,

00:08:57.440 which effectively,

00:08:58.240 obviously,

00:08:58.760 puts term limits on the court.

00:09:00.080 So it does seem

00:09:01.180 that at all levels

00:09:02.160 of the left here,

00:09:03.660 they are serious

00:09:04.620 about transforming the court.

00:09:07.340 AOC, I mean, 0.99

00:09:08.140 so many other elected officials

00:09:09.360 were talking about this

00:09:10.140 the moments after ACB

00:09:12.320 was confirmed.

00:09:14.000 Look, it's brute power

00:09:15.480 and it's worth noting

00:09:16.780 for the first two years

00:09:18.000 of the Trump presidency,

00:09:20.000 Republicans had majorities

00:09:21.200 in both houses.

00:09:22.000 We could have packed the court.

00:09:24.160 Nothing to prevent us

00:09:25.380 from ending the filibuster

00:09:26.500 and adding justices.

00:09:27.820 We didn't do that.

00:09:29.260 Yeah.

00:09:30.060 And we wouldn't have.

00:09:32.660 Nobody even suggested it.

00:09:35.300 And so, look,

00:09:38.180 I hope we don't wake up

00:09:41.520 in a world that is

00:09:42.520 a Biden-Schumer-Pelosi world.

00:09:44.640 But if we do,

00:09:46.520 they're going to pack the court,

00:09:48.100 I believe.

00:09:48.460 And that's naturally

00:09:50.020 going to escalate.

00:09:50.880 So the next time

00:09:51.660 Republicans take power,

00:09:52.860 we will pack the court

00:09:53.840 in response.

00:09:54.880 I mean, it will,

00:09:55.760 if they go to 11,

00:09:56.700 we'll go to 13.

00:09:58.380 That's bad for the court. 0.79

00:09:59.620 That's bad for the country.

00:10:00.600 I don't want to see us

00:10:01.540 go down that road.

00:10:02.620 But I don't think

00:10:04.680 a single Democratic senator

00:10:06.760 will oppose their efforts

00:10:08.420 to pack the court.

00:10:09.780 It would seem that way.

00:10:10.900 There seems to be

00:10:11.400 a lot of uniformity.

00:10:12.520 And I'm pleased

00:10:13.760 that the Barrett nomination

00:10:15.400 went off easily.

00:10:16.960 I am curious, though,

00:10:18.420 Senator,

00:10:18.740 on a completely different topic,

00:10:20.320 if there will be

00:10:21.580 more hostile interactions

00:10:23.000 in the Senate

00:10:23.700 with big tech.

00:10:25.540 Big tech has played

00:10:26.500 a huge role

00:10:27.200 in this election.

00:10:28.080 I know that senators

00:10:29.180 have been grilling

00:10:30.180 and hammering

00:10:31.000 these big tech overlords.

00:10:32.980 But it's been pretty opaque.

00:10:34.380 I don't think we've really seen

00:10:35.400 what's going on

00:10:36.140 behind the scenes.

00:10:37.360 Are there any updates,

00:10:38.740 especially now

00:10:39.360 as we get into

00:10:39.800 the waning days

00:10:40.340 of the campaign

00:10:41.020 with regard

00:10:42.640 to the political oversight

00:10:44.600 of big tech?

00:10:46.820 So tomorrow,

00:10:48.400 there's going to be

00:10:49.300 a hearing

00:10:49.820 with the CEOs

00:10:50.860 of Google,

00:10:52.120 Facebook,

00:10:52.540 and Twitter

00:10:53.000 in front of the

00:10:54.260 Senate Commerce Committee.

00:10:55.260 And so I'm on Commerce.

00:10:56.640 I'll participate in that.

00:10:59.040 I'm going to be

00:10:59.820 questioning them.

00:11:01.140 We're doing it virtually.

00:11:02.160 It's a virtual hearing.

00:11:03.000 So I'm back in Texas now.

00:11:04.600 I'll be doing it

00:11:05.280 from here.

00:11:07.300 And then in November,

00:11:09.380 the Judiciary Committee

00:11:11.140 will be having

00:11:11.740 a second hearing

00:11:12.620 with the CEOs

00:11:14.000 of Twitter and Facebook.

00:11:15.400 And so we're going

00:11:16.120 to have two hearings

00:11:16.880 in the next couple of weeks

00:11:17.980 with big tech.

00:11:20.800 You know,

00:11:21.020 today I spent

00:11:22.120 over an hour

00:11:23.020 on the phone

00:11:24.000 with the CEO

00:11:24.780 of both Google

00:11:26.660 and Facebook

00:11:27.460 in preparation

00:11:29.920 for the hearing

00:11:30.740 and talking about

00:11:31.480 these issues.

00:11:32.200 And in both instances,

00:11:33.780 I would say

00:11:34.920 the conversations

00:11:35.740 were vigorous.

00:11:37.660 I don't want to ask

00:11:40.100 for tails out of school

00:11:41.360 here, Senator,

00:11:42.260 but I would anticipate

00:11:44.740 the conversations

00:11:45.360 were vigorous.

00:11:47.040 Can you give us

00:11:47.900 a little behind the scenes

00:11:49.240 what to expect

00:11:49.940 at these hearings?

00:11:50.780 What was discussed?

00:11:52.400 So on both of them,

00:11:53.900 both of them asked

00:11:54.880 for the calls.

00:11:55.520 And so I said,

00:11:56.060 sure,

00:11:56.440 and I'm happy

00:11:57.160 to hear them out.

00:11:58.780 And so I let

00:12:00.220 both Sundar

00:12:02.600 and Mark Zuckerberg

00:12:04.100 drive the conversations

00:12:05.660 and lay out

00:12:07.840 their views.

00:12:11.040 Zuckerberg and I

00:12:11.960 have talked

00:12:12.500 a fair amount.

00:12:14.180 And I will say,

00:12:15.700 you know,

00:12:15.940 my views

00:12:16.980 on the sort of

00:12:17.620 big tech players

00:12:18.620 is they all occupy

00:12:19.720 different spaces.

00:12:22.700 I think Facebook

00:12:24.100 and Zuckerberg

00:12:25.180 has been

00:12:27.180 the most

00:12:27.840 outspoken

00:12:29.120 in the general

00:12:31.900 direction

00:12:32.500 of free speech.

00:12:33.740 I don't think

00:12:34.340 they're a very good

00:12:35.140 player,

00:12:35.720 but I think

00:12:36.260 they're the least

00:12:37.280 bad of the three

00:12:38.320 players.

00:12:39.780 Yeah.

00:12:40.600 And actually,

00:12:41.500 Zuckerberg has taken

00:12:42.220 a lot of grief

00:12:43.080 from the rest

00:12:44.580 of big tech

00:12:45.400 for suggesting

00:12:46.680 free speech

00:12:47.280 even matters.

00:12:49.580 And so,

00:12:51.520 you know,

00:12:51.860 I'm in a posture

00:12:52.960 of trying to

00:12:53.720 encourage him,

00:12:54.720 okay,

00:12:54.880 that's good.

00:12:57.160 But Facebook

00:12:58.360 still throttled

00:13:00.360 the New York

00:13:00.880 Post story.

00:13:01.880 And so,

00:13:03.140 with Zuckerberg,

00:13:04.080 I made the case

00:13:04.740 to him tonight

00:13:05.420 that,

00:13:06.060 listen,

00:13:06.740 y'all should not

00:13:07.460 be in the business

00:13:08.180 of deciding

00:13:08.840 what media stories

00:13:10.000 are allowed

00:13:10.880 to be seen

00:13:11.440 and what media

00:13:11.960 stories aren't.

00:13:13.080 That,

00:13:13.180 by any measure,

00:13:15.220 the New York

00:13:15.520 Post is a

00:13:16.200 serious major

00:13:17.200 media company.

00:13:19.000 And,

00:13:19.660 as he knows

00:13:22.040 well,

00:13:22.540 and as we've

00:13:23.080 talked about

00:13:23.460 a lot in this pod,

00:13:24.220 I have serious

00:13:26.020 issues with

00:13:27.280 big tech censoring

00:13:28.480 the speech

00:13:29.380 of American

00:13:29.840 citizens,

00:13:31.120 crossing over

00:13:33.020 into censoring

00:13:33.700 the media

00:13:34.260 is a major

00:13:35.800 threshold

00:13:37.140 to cross.

00:13:38.820 Yeah.

00:13:39.720 Now,

00:13:40.060 by the way,

00:13:40.580 Zuckerberg

00:13:41.000 pointed out,

00:13:41.700 he said,

00:13:42.660 Facebook never

00:13:44.360 blocked

00:13:44.880 sharing the

00:13:45.900 Post story

00:13:46.560 and that they

00:13:48.380 have zero

00:13:49.040 constraints on it

00:13:49.960 right now.

00:13:51.420 That's good.

00:13:52.240 That's better

00:13:52.720 than as we sit

00:13:53.460 here talking

00:13:53.900 right now,

00:13:54.820 Twitter is still

00:13:55.660 blocking the

00:13:56.320 New York Post

00:13:56.900 today.

00:13:57.420 That is a

00:13:58.320 distinction worth

00:13:58.940 making because

00:13:59.480 the former

00:14:01.280 Democrat operative

00:14:02.200 who's now running

00:14:02.780 communications at

00:14:03.640 Facebook did say

00:14:05.020 we're suppressing

00:14:05.860 the spread of

00:14:06.640 the article.

00:14:08.240 But compared to

00:14:08.780 Facebook,

00:14:09.300 they were basically,

00:14:10.040 or compared to

00:14:10.480 Twitter rather,

00:14:11.080 they were basically

00:14:11.520 a free speech

00:14:12.060 platform.

00:14:12.580 They were allowing

00:14:12.920 people to post it.

00:14:13.920 They were allowing

00:14:14.200 people to message

00:14:14.740 it.

00:14:15.180 Twitter was not

00:14:15.840 doing that.

00:14:16.380 And as you point

00:14:16.900 out,

00:14:17.080 I had actually

00:14:17.520 forgotten.

00:14:18.800 The New York

00:14:19.460 Post is still

00:14:20.220 not permitted.

00:14:20.980 Even though

00:14:21.240 Twitter has lifted

00:14:22.340 the regulations

00:14:23.600 surrounding that

00:14:24.520 link,

00:14:25.100 they still will

00:14:25.960 not allow the

00:14:26.780 New York

00:14:27.100 Post to

00:14:28.100 post their

00:14:28.960 stories now

00:14:29.720 however many

00:14:30.280 days before

00:14:30.720 the election.

00:14:32.340 So,

00:14:32.820 of those

00:14:34.180 three companies,

00:14:36.160 Twitter is

00:14:36.720 the most

00:14:37.060 brazen.

00:14:38.060 I mean,

00:14:38.340 Dorsey is

00:14:38.940 just a hard

00:14:39.780 leftist

00:14:40.360 partisan

00:14:40.800 saying,

00:14:41.840 screw you,

00:14:43.240 we have

00:14:43.780 power and

00:14:44.360 we're going

00:14:44.600 to use it.

00:14:45.820 Twitter is

00:14:46.260 also the

00:14:46.700 least powerful

00:14:47.380 of the three.

00:14:47.960 It's funny,

00:14:48.420 they're the

00:14:48.720 smallest player

00:14:49.700 and the

00:14:50.600 most in

00:14:51.020 your face

00:14:51.440 about it.

00:14:52.580 Although,

00:14:53.260 you know,

00:14:53.560 I think of

00:14:54.140 Twitter kind

00:14:55.300 of like the

00:14:55.880 morning Joe,

00:14:56.860 of social

00:14:58.960 media.

00:14:59.760 And what I

00:15:00.780 mean by that,

00:15:02.100 you know,

00:15:02.360 Morning Joe is

00:15:03.200 the show on

00:15:03.780 MSNBC that

00:15:04.960 has like virtually

00:15:05.980 no viewers,

00:15:07.760 but it's on

00:15:08.760 every morning.

00:15:09.500 And the people

00:15:09.960 who view it are

00:15:10.560 actually all the

00:15:11.900 media folks who

00:15:13.900 there was a

00:15:15.020 period of time,

00:15:15.720 less so now,

00:15:16.700 it's actually

00:15:17.120 Morning Joe has

00:15:17.760 been more

00:15:18.120 marginalized.

00:15:19.140 But a few

00:15:19.900 years ago,

00:15:20.660 Morning Joe could

00:15:21.540 drive the news

00:15:22.740 news because

00:15:23.560 all the

00:15:24.100 reporters and

00:15:24.860 all the

00:15:25.560 thought leaders

00:15:26.820 were watching

00:15:27.500 it.

00:15:28.480 Twitter is kind

00:15:29.100 of the same

00:15:29.580 thing in that

00:15:30.220 it can drive

00:15:30.880 news,

00:15:31.720 but its

00:15:32.940 reach is

00:15:34.460 much,

00:15:34.940 much smaller

00:15:35.620 than Facebook

00:15:36.920 and both of

00:15:38.500 them are dwarfed

00:15:39.460 by Google,

00:15:40.820 which is this

00:15:41.900 vast omnipresence

00:15:43.880 in the sky

00:15:44.580 with octopus

00:15:46.160 tentacles

00:15:46.980 expanding the

00:15:48.600 cosmos.

00:15:49.020 So is there

00:15:50.900 any insight

00:15:51.320 you can give

00:15:51.740 us from

00:15:52.080 that vivid

00:15:54.260 and accurate

00:15:54.840 image?

00:15:55.680 Is there any

00:15:56.420 insight you

00:15:56.780 could give

00:15:57.060 us from

00:15:57.680 Sundar Pichai,

00:15:58.880 the head of

00:15:59.540 Google?

00:16:00.360 So it's

00:16:00.840 interesting.

00:16:01.740 Sundar,

00:16:04.000 his reputation

00:16:06.800 is of not

00:16:08.620 being deeply

00:16:09.760 political,

00:16:11.660 and I don't

00:16:12.600 have a reason

00:16:13.540 to doubt

00:16:14.180 that.

00:16:15.500 But a point

00:16:16.600 that I made

00:16:17.220 to him is

00:16:17.860 because he's

00:16:18.660 an engineer,

00:16:20.800 because he's

00:16:21.640 not necessarily,

00:16:22.400 he may be,

00:16:23.300 but he's not

00:16:23.960 visibly and

00:16:25.000 overtly political.

00:16:27.200 He doesn't

00:16:28.280 perceive that

00:16:28.940 everything around

00:16:30.080 Google is

00:16:30.800 hard left 0.70

00:16:31.900 and is

00:16:32.680 profoundly

00:16:33.320 partisan.

00:16:34.460 And so I

00:16:35.060 pressed him,

00:16:36.080 the conversation

00:16:36.700 with Sundar

00:16:37.180 was quite

00:16:38.020 vigorous,

00:16:38.640 where I said,

00:16:39.300 look,

00:16:39.560 Google has

00:16:40.220 massive power.

00:16:42.920 Now I did

00:16:43.400 point out,

00:16:43.900 actually on the

00:16:44.300 New York Post

00:16:44.860 story,

00:16:46.000 Google,

00:16:46.560 by all

00:16:46.920 appearances,

00:16:47.500 did not

00:16:48.720 censor the

00:16:50.040 story.

00:16:51.000 Right,

00:16:51.620 right.

00:16:52.160 It was a bit

00:16:52.500 strange at the

00:16:53.020 time.

00:16:54.020 Twitter and

00:16:54.380 Facebook did.

00:16:55.160 Now we talked

00:16:55.700 about last

00:16:56.180 podcast,

00:16:56.720 I think one

00:16:57.100 of the reasons

00:16:57.580 Google may

00:16:58.120 not have is

00:16:58.800 because of

00:16:59.300 the DOJ

00:16:59.960 lawsuit and

00:17:01.420 Google's

00:17:02.080 kind of

00:17:02.480 sort of

00:17:03.380 on best

00:17:03.760 behavior.

00:17:05.240 And it was

00:17:05.900 interesting,

00:17:06.800 Sundar said,

00:17:07.520 well,

00:17:07.920 the New York

00:17:08.240 Post is a

00:17:08.740 media outlet

00:17:09.180 and we don't

00:17:09.540 want to be

00:17:10.200 constraining

00:17:10.800 media outlets.

00:17:11.540 I'm like,

00:17:11.800 good,

00:17:12.040 that's a

00:17:14.500 step in

00:17:15.120 the right

00:17:15.460 direction.

00:17:16.100 Now I

00:17:16.420 press them

00:17:17.240 on,

00:17:18.100 their search

00:17:18.480 outcomes are

00:17:19.060 biased,

00:17:19.460 they have

00:17:19.660 no

00:17:19.820 transparency,

00:17:21.520 you guys

00:17:22.720 were the

00:17:23.040 single biggest

00:17:23.620 donor on

00:17:24.680 the face

00:17:24.980 of the

00:17:25.200 planet to

00:17:25.660 Hillary 0.96

00:17:25.880 Clinton,

00:17:26.960 you're

00:17:27.240 profoundly

00:17:27.980 left wing.

00:17:29.640 It was,

00:17:31.020 look,

00:17:31.300 I think it

00:17:31.620 was beneficial

00:17:32.240 to talk

00:17:32.920 through.

00:17:33.720 My sense

00:17:34.580 was some

00:17:35.140 of these

00:17:35.480 issues are

00:17:36.580 new to

00:17:39.820 him as a

00:17:40.500 stretch,

00:17:41.020 but I

00:17:44.080 think Google

00:17:45.500 has such

00:17:46.160 vast power

00:17:47.100 that they

00:17:49.140 just don't

00:17:49.740 seem to

00:17:50.180 care much

00:17:51.080 and so I'm

00:17:51.800 hopeful the

00:17:53.980 continued

00:17:54.520 scrutiny

00:17:55.140 draws their

00:17:56.660 attention.

00:17:57.880 I think

00:17:58.140 this is a

00:17:58.620 great point

00:17:59.320 that conservatives

00:18:00.280 don't focus

00:18:00.960 on that

00:18:01.800 much,

00:18:02.320 which is

00:18:02.980 that these

00:18:03.840 guys are

00:18:04.440 living in

00:18:05.220 this very

00:18:05.800 left wing

00:18:06.320 world of

00:18:07.060 big tech.

00:18:07.960 Everything

00:18:08.260 around them

00:18:08.780 is left

00:18:09.120 wing.

00:18:09.620 Often they

00:18:10.000 don't perceive

00:18:10.620 themselves as

00:18:11.280 political.

00:18:12.080 They just

00:18:12.420 assume that

00:18:13.300 leftism,

00:18:14.400 liberalism,

00:18:15.140 progressivism is

00:18:16.340 the only type

00:18:17.080 of politics.

00:18:17.800 They don't

00:18:18.800 understand maybe

00:18:19.460 even some of

00:18:19.880 the premises

00:18:20.300 that they are

00:18:21.060 accepting here.

00:18:21.940 It would be

00:18:22.580 good.

00:18:22.860 I'm glad to

00:18:23.260 hear you had

00:18:23.620 a vigorous

00:18:24.400 conversation

00:18:24.960 with them.

00:18:25.740 I hope

00:18:26.120 that it

00:18:26.380 can open

00:18:26.800 their eyes

00:18:27.400 and if

00:18:28.560 their eyes

00:18:28.920 cannot be

00:18:29.340 opened in

00:18:30.140 that sort

00:18:30.700 of way,

00:18:31.060 then perhaps

00:18:31.540 there's a

00:18:31.940 role for

00:18:32.560 the DOJ

00:18:33.480 lawsuit for

00:18:34.620 other mechanisms

00:18:36.000 that we've

00:18:36.380 discussed many

00:18:36.920 times on this

00:18:37.480 show because

00:18:38.300 time is running

00:18:39.300 out,

00:18:39.560 Senator,

00:18:39.820 I have to

00:18:40.220 call your

00:18:40.460 attention before

00:18:41.280 we get to

00:18:41.700 the mailbag to

00:18:42.800 this terrifying

00:18:44.320 headline that I

00:18:45.520 saw in the

00:18:46.040 Financial Times,

00:18:47.020 which is that

00:18:48.220 Texas is on

00:18:49.820 its way to

00:18:50.860 becoming a

00:18:52.100 blue state.

00:18:53.080 You are a

00:18:53.980 Texan.

00:18:54.640 I trust you

00:18:55.320 more than the

00:18:55.820 Financial Times.

00:18:57.400 Is this true?

00:18:59.340 I hope not.

00:19:00.600 I don't know.

00:19:02.260 I don't think so.

00:19:03.380 I think Texas

00:19:04.020 will stay red.

00:19:04.960 I think Texas

00:19:06.180 will vote for

00:19:06.820 Trump.

00:19:07.180 I think John

00:19:07.840 Cornyn will

00:19:08.300 get re-elected.

00:19:09.540 But Texas is

00:19:10.200 clearly a

00:19:10.620 battleground.

00:19:11.880 Texas has been 0.65

00:19:12.580 trending more

00:19:13.240 purple.

00:19:13.780 I wouldn't say

00:19:14.300 Texas is blue,

00:19:15.540 but it's

00:19:16.100 trending more

00:19:16.680 purple.

00:19:17.860 And I can tell

00:19:18.700 you, so this

00:19:19.200 is Tuesday

00:19:20.040 night.

00:19:21.020 Let me just

00:19:21.520 tell you about

00:19:21.980 my next week.

00:19:23.520 So yesterday

00:19:24.500 I was in D.C.

00:19:25.540 We confirmed

00:19:26.160 Justice Barrett.

00:19:27.640 This morning I

00:19:28.420 flew back to

00:19:29.080 Houston.

00:19:29.540 Actually tonight

00:19:30.120 is my daughter

00:19:30.680 Catherine's

00:19:31.240 10th birthday.

00:19:32.220 So I'm going to

00:19:32.760 leave the podcast

00:19:33.440 and go have

00:19:34.300 dinner to

00:19:35.540 celebrate Catherine's

00:19:36.420 birthday, which I

00:19:37.120 made it home

00:19:37.560 for.

00:19:38.640 Second year in

00:19:39.340 a row, by the

00:19:39.800 way, I've

00:19:40.120 turned down

00:19:40.560 World Series

00:19:41.080 tickets to go

00:19:41.980 to spend it

00:19:43.320 instead for

00:19:44.040 Catherine's

00:19:44.540 birthday.

00:19:44.960 So both this

00:19:45.480 year and last

00:19:46.040 year I declined

00:19:47.600 to go to the

00:19:48.060 World Series

00:19:48.500 because I had a

00:19:49.320 date with a

00:19:49.740 9-year-old and

00:19:50.280 now a 10-year-old.

00:19:51.680 You are a

00:19:52.160 better father

00:19:52.680 than I think I

00:19:53.360 would be.

00:19:53.780 That is a big

00:19:54.460 sacrifice, a very

00:19:55.620 nice thing to do.

00:19:57.040 It was easier

00:19:58.180 this year because

00:19:59.360 the Astros aren't

00:20:00.160 in it, so I'm a

00:20:00.960 little more

00:20:01.520 ambivalent about

00:20:02.360 the results.

00:20:04.260 Last year I

00:20:05.020 actually invited

00:20:05.780 Catherine to come

00:20:06.420 with me to the

00:20:06.980 World Series.

00:20:07.980 How'd that go?

00:20:09.080 She went to some

00:20:09.980 of the games, but

00:20:10.640 she didn't want to

00:20:11.440 go on the day of

00:20:12.060 her birthday, so we

00:20:13.300 skipped it on the

00:20:14.600 day of her

00:20:14.900 birthday.

00:20:15.980 Tomorrow I fly to

00:20:18.320 North Carolina to

00:20:19.240 campaign with Tom

00:20:20.140 Tillis, who's

00:20:20.740 running for Senate

00:20:21.980 there in a very

00:20:22.700 close contested race.

00:20:24.060 Tomorrow night I

00:20:24.680 fly to Montana, do

00:20:27.040 I think two events

00:20:28.180 in Montana with

00:20:29.040 Steve Daines in a

00:20:29.940 very close contested

00:20:30.920 Senate race in

00:20:32.020 Montana.

00:20:32.580 From Montana, I fly

00:20:33.680 to California, do a

00:20:35.220 fundraiser in

00:20:35.940 California to help

00:20:36.980 try to keep the

00:20:37.900 Senate red.

00:20:39.020 From California, I

00:20:40.820 fly back to Texas 0.79

00:20:41.960 because Catherine has

00:20:43.200 her 10th birthday

00:20:44.360 party this weekend.

00:20:45.560 I told her I'd be

00:20:46.200 here for the party.

00:20:47.560 Hold on, hold on.

00:20:48.320 No, no, I don't

00:20:48.920 fly.

00:20:49.180 I fly from

00:20:49.600 California to

00:20:50.460 Iowa.

00:20:51.080 I'm sorry, I

00:20:51.540 forgot where I do

00:20:53.020 I think three stops

00:20:54.180 with Joni Ernst

00:20:55.000 campaigning to help

00:20:56.320 her hold on to her

00:20:57.640 Senate seat in Iowa,

00:20:58.700 then back to Texas

00:20:59.640 for Catherine's

00:21:00.340 birthday.

00:21:01.300 Then on Sunday, I

00:21:02.320 fly to Arizona, do

00:21:03.460 several stops with

00:21:04.420 Martha McSally, who's

00:21:06.440 running to hold on to

00:21:08.180 her seat there.

00:21:09.020 And then I come back

00:21:09.840 on Monday to campaign

00:21:11.220 with John Cornyn in

00:21:12.320 Texas, and then 0.83

00:21:13.400 Tuesday's election

00:21:14.100 time.

00:21:14.460 So a nice relaxing

00:21:15.540 couple weeks before

00:21:16.600 we get to November

00:21:17.380 3rd.

00:21:17.840 You know, Senator, you

00:21:18.980 do hear these stories

00:21:20.140 of President Trump is

00:21:21.340 doing two rallies this

00:21:22.300 day or one rally

00:21:23.080 isn't, and you think,

00:21:23.820 oh my gosh, this is

00:21:25.480 so unusual.

00:21:26.400 This is really putting

00:21:27.560 out the effort.

00:21:28.440 But it sounds like

00:21:29.620 this is just how

00:21:31.420 election season works

00:21:32.700 in politics.

00:21:33.740 This is not exactly

00:21:34.560 your first rodeo.

00:21:36.280 It's not, and frankly,

00:21:37.860 I enjoy being out

00:21:38.760 there campaigning.

00:21:39.520 I will say I hate

00:21:41.860 campaigning in the era

00:21:43.120 of COVID because what I

00:21:45.180 like to do is events.

00:21:46.740 So you go to a rally or

00:21:48.040 something, you give a

00:21:48.740 talk, and then what I

00:21:49.760 like to do is, you know,

00:21:50.980 go off the front of the

00:21:52.000 stage and into the

00:21:53.580 crowd and take pictures

00:21:54.660 with people and hug

00:21:55.560 people and, like, just

00:21:56.920 hang out.

00:21:57.560 And we would usually

00:21:58.700 schedule events where,

00:22:00.080 say, the event was an

00:22:00.860 hour, and then I'd just

00:22:02.040 stay an extra hour just

00:22:03.160 to be with people

00:22:03.760 afterwards.

00:22:05.120 In the era of COVID,

00:22:06.240 you can't really do

00:22:07.040 that.

00:22:07.380 I mean, you know, you've

00:22:07.940 got an infectious

00:22:08.800 disease, so for most of

00:22:10.720 these events, I'll do the

00:22:11.860 remarks and then just kind

00:22:13.080 of leave through the

00:22:13.740 back, which I hate.

00:22:15.700 I mean, it's miserable,

00:22:18.540 and I really will be

00:22:19.720 grateful to getting back

00:22:20.780 campaigning the way it

00:22:21.780 should be done, which is

00:22:22.720 actually interacting

00:22:24.740 directly with lots and

00:22:25.820 lots of people.

00:22:26.260 And it actually, it's

00:22:28.300 not even just, you know,

00:22:29.160 it's nice to shake hands

00:22:30.160 and meet people, but

00:22:31.080 there is something very

00:22:31.800 helpful about it, too,

00:22:32.920 which is that when you

00:22:34.020 get to campaign in that

00:22:35.000 way or you go to events

00:22:35.780 in that way, you're

00:22:36.540 hearing from people what

00:22:38.040 is really going on, what

00:22:39.380 maybe you're not hearing

00:22:40.100 in the mainstream media.

00:22:40.900 So it kind of works both

00:22:42.160 ways.

00:22:42.880 COVID seems to have cut out

00:22:43.940 that aspect of the

00:22:44.700 campaign.

00:22:46.320 It has, and it's just

00:22:48.220 kind of, particularly the

00:22:50.120 last couple of weeks, I've

00:22:51.480 been very cautious about

00:22:52.980 it because, look, the

00:22:54.700 biggest thing that could

00:22:55.940 have derailed Justice

00:22:57.140 Barrett is if three of

00:22:59.920 us have gotten COVID.

00:23:01.640 Yeah, right.

00:23:02.400 I mean, she was

00:23:03.280 confirmed 52 to 48, and

00:23:05.160 by the way, the median

00:23:05.940 age in the Senate is like

00:23:06.940 142.

00:23:08.120 I mean, it's, you know,

00:23:09.720 these are not spring

00:23:10.560 chickens in this body.

00:23:12.480 And we've had several

00:23:14.300 senators test positive for

00:23:15.700 COVID, but it was a big

00:23:18.160 concern.

00:23:18.840 We were all sort of

00:23:19.720 consciously limiting our

00:23:22.080 interaction because we have

00:23:23.600 to, in the Senate, you

00:23:24.520 have to vote in person.

00:23:25.940 If you're not physically

00:23:27.360 on the floor, you don't

00:23:28.500 get to vote.

00:23:29.620 No Zoom votes.

00:23:31.420 And so we were legitimately

00:23:34.700 discussing, and we had

00:23:36.140 procured, like, space

00:23:39.200 suits, like hazmat suits.

00:23:40.880 Like, I, when I

00:23:43.160 quarantined, I told Mitch

00:23:44.720 McConnell, look, if I need

00:23:46.260 to wear a hazmat suit to

00:23:47.380 come vote for Justice

00:23:48.680 Barrett, I will.

00:23:50.300 And I'll tell you,

00:23:51.120 actually, we had them.

00:23:52.300 The White House went and

00:23:53.300 got, if we needed to put

00:23:55.600 a senator in, like, a

00:23:58.480 hazmat suit to walk onto

00:23:59.720 the floor and go, aye, we

00:24:01.160 would have done it.

00:24:02.180 In a sense, I'm glad nobody

00:24:04.160 came down with COVID.

00:24:06.160 But in another, another part

00:24:07.420 of me thinks, if you just

00:24:08.540 had a senator walking down as,

00:24:10.440 like, a bubble boy or

00:24:11.360 something, that would have

00:24:12.300 made for great political

00:24:13.840 imagery.

00:24:14.740 But I guess better that

00:24:15.760 everybody's healthy.

00:24:16.760 You know, we have only a

00:24:18.640 minute or two remaining

00:24:19.420 before you've got to hop all

00:24:20.440 around God's green earth.

00:24:21.800 I do want to get to one

00:24:22.760 mailbag question, though,

00:24:23.600 because we've been talking

00:24:24.140 about how things have

00:24:24.920 gotten so extreme and the

00:24:26.700 Democrats are going to

00:24:27.780 completely break every

00:24:29.200 norm of our Constitution if

00:24:30.920 they get power in November

00:24:32.000 and Republicans have become

00:24:33.420 more conservative.

00:24:35.500 Stephen wants to know,

00:24:36.500 does Senator Cruz believe we

00:24:37.760 will ever reach back to a

00:24:39.700 more centrist right and

00:24:41.540 left, or would we even

00:24:42.420 want to?

00:24:43.520 Or are we forever locked to

00:24:45.540 the extremes by this

00:24:46.720 election and the ensuing

00:24:48.060 ones?

00:24:48.360 So, I hope so, and it

00:24:51.600 will take breaking the

00:24:52.700 fever.

00:24:54.660 You know, if you look at

00:24:55.660 elections, typically what

00:24:57.020 happens is if one side gets

00:24:59.220 clobbered over and over

00:25:00.560 again, they engage in some

00:25:03.140 introspection.

00:25:03.940 They say, okay, what's going

00:25:04.840 wrong?

00:25:05.160 Why do we keep losing?

00:25:06.680 Think about the Democrats

00:25:07.940 through the 80s and early

00:25:09.420 90s, where you had Reagan,

00:25:11.680 Reagan, Bush.

00:25:12.560 And so Democrats lost three

00:25:14.080 elections in a row.

00:25:14.960 And, you know, they had a

00:25:19.600 massive period of

00:25:20.620 introspection and said,

00:25:21.640 gosh, what we're selling,

00:25:23.680 people ain't buying.

00:25:25.240 And what did they do?

00:25:26.240 They came back with Bill

00:25:27.160 Clinton, who ran as a

00:25:28.360 centrist Democrat and won,

00:25:29.820 and won twice.

00:25:31.740 You know, one of the

00:25:32.880 interesting effects of Trump's

00:25:35.260 victory in 2016, Democrats,

00:25:40.120 by and large, in Washington,

00:25:42.820 very quickly blamed Russia

00:25:44.980 for the loss.

00:25:46.560 Yeah.

00:25:46.760 And we had the whole three

00:25:47.920 years of Russia, Russia,

00:25:49.240 Russia.

00:25:51.060 One of the consequences of

00:25:52.660 that is you had virtually

00:25:53.840 none of the introspection

00:25:55.320 that usually follows an

00:25:56.660 election loss, where almost

00:25:59.240 no Democrats said, wait a

00:26:00.580 second, how did we as the

00:26:02.580 Democratic Party lose

00:26:04.380 working class voters in

00:26:06.940 Pennsylvania and Michigan and

00:26:08.820 Wisconsin and Ohio?

00:26:10.700 You know, these are, you

00:26:11.520 know, FDR union voters who

00:26:13.580 suddenly voted Republican.

00:26:15.780 Any sane Democrat would be

00:26:17.560 saying, wow, we might need to

00:26:19.600 adjust what we're saying.

00:26:21.640 They didn't engage in that

00:26:22.960 process.

00:26:23.980 I think if we see a really

00:26:25.500 fantastic election this time,

00:26:27.420 you may see some Democrats

00:26:28.920 second guess.

00:26:30.940 But I think the only way you

00:26:32.700 will see a decline in the

00:26:35.540 divide is to have one or

00:26:39.340 two electoral thumpins to

00:26:43.580 cause one or the other

00:26:45.320 party to recalibrate.

00:26:46.800 This is a great point,

00:26:48.040 because whenever I hear

00:26:49.000 people say, oh, we need to

00:26:50.080 come back to the center, I

00:26:51.000 think, well, you know, if the

00:26:51.960 center is very far left or if

00:26:53.340 it means unilateral

00:26:53.960 disarmament, that doesn't

00:26:55.280 sound so interesting to me.

00:26:56.560 But but and I don't think it

00:26:57.820 would work anyway.

00:26:59.220 Your take does seem to be

00:27:01.260 historically valid, which is

00:27:03.720 you need to force a little

00:27:05.500 introspection.

00:27:06.120 You need to lead people into

00:27:08.240 a way that they can't resist

00:27:09.960 it anymore because they keep

00:27:10.920 getting rejected at the

00:27:11.660 ballot box.

00:27:12.400 So the way to come back to a

00:27:13.820 little moderation and come

00:27:15.260 back to the center is to give

00:27:16.860 them a good thumping at the

00:27:17.700 ballot box.

00:27:18.320 Let's hope that we can

00:27:19.240 accomplish that this go

00:27:20.500 around all the time we have

00:27:22.140 for today.

00:27:22.820 Senator, I'm sure you'll have

00:27:23.860 visited 25 states before I

00:27:25.680 speak to you next in a few

00:27:26.620 days.

00:27:26.920 But in the meantime, I'm

00:27:28.580 Michael Knowles.

00:27:29.340 This is Verdict with Ted

00:27:30.800 Cruz.

00:27:39.620 This episode of Verdict with

00:27:41.800 Ted Cruz is being brought to

00:27:43.380 you by Jobs, Freedom and

00:27:44.800 Security Pack, a political

00:27:46.360 action committee dedicated to

00:27:48.020 supporting conservative

00:27:49.000 causes, organizations and

00:27:50.900 candidates across the country.

00:27:52.780 In 2022, Jobs, Freedom and

00:27:54.800 Security Pack plans to donate to

00:27:56.700 conservative candidates

00:27:57.760 running for Congress and help

00:27:59.380 the Republican Party across

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00:28:02.320 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:28:04.820 Guaranteed Human.

Verdict with Ted Cruz - October 28, 2020

So Help Me God

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