Verdict with Ted Cruz - Social Media Censorship

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.500 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.480 President Trump signs an executive order

00:00:06.680 to stop big tech's censorship of conservatives.

00:00:11.240 Luckily, we can sit down with a guy

00:00:12.880 who has been fighting that very censorship for many years.

00:00:16.640 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:00:24.240 Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:00:26.480 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:00:27.580 And the guy who's been fighting this for many years,

00:00:29.620 coincidentally, is Ted Cruz himself.

00:00:32.140 Senator, nice to see you,

00:00:33.680 even though we still have to do this virtually,

00:00:36.480 digitally, and hopefully without any censorship.

00:00:39.040 Well, let's hope so,

00:00:40.360 but we'll see if big tech pulls this podcast down.

00:00:42.840 That's right.

00:00:43.620 Senator, I think everybody knows

00:00:45.760 that big tech has been going after conservatives.

00:00:49.040 And probably for a lot of people listening to this right now,

00:00:51.740 they themselves have felt this kind of thing.

00:00:54.120 If their account has been suspended

00:00:55.480 for sharing a conservative view.

00:00:56.980 I think, frankly, it's probably happened

00:00:58.780 to all of us at this point.

00:00:59.960 So we know that there's a problem,

00:01:01.700 but there's been some debate

00:01:02.760 over how you solve the problem.

00:01:05.160 Do you pass some new regulation?

00:01:06.960 Do you break them up like they're a monopoly

00:01:09.140 with antitrust laws?

00:01:10.280 Or do you enforce laws that are already on the books?

00:01:13.340 You focused in on something called Section 230

00:01:16.400 of the Communications Decency Act of 1996.

00:01:19.880 The president focused in on that as well

00:01:22.040 in his executive order.

00:01:23.300 Can you tell us what that is

00:01:25.540 and how the argument applies to big tech censorship?

00:01:28.620 Well, sure.

00:01:29.320 And in answer to your question about what you do,

00:01:31.300 you listed several options.

00:01:32.580 My answers are yes, yes, and yes.

00:01:36.180 Let's start with 230.

00:01:37.400 What is 230?

00:01:38.380 So 1996, Congress passes a law

00:01:41.220 called the Communications Decency Act.

00:01:42.840 It was actually mainly focused

00:01:44.360 at trying to regulate internet porn,

00:01:47.560 but it included a portion in it, Section 230,

00:01:51.460 that gave a special immunity from liability

00:01:56.020 for big tech companies.

00:01:58.700 And here was the reasoning at the time.

00:02:00.640 Remember, this is early.

00:02:01.560 This was right when the internet is starting.

00:02:04.940 In fact, one thing, Michael,

00:02:06.420 you and I have talked about,

00:02:07.560 I was clerking at the U.S. Supreme Court

00:02:09.920 in 1996, 1997,

00:02:12.340 when one of the first challenges

00:02:15.380 to congressional regulation came up.

00:02:18.360 And I told a story in the book

00:02:20.600 I wrote a few years ago

00:02:21.840 about sitting with a Supreme Court librarian,

00:02:24.740 with my boss, Chief Justice William Rehnquist,

00:02:27.700 and with Sandra Day O'Connor.

00:02:29.340 And the librarian pulled up hardcore porn

00:02:32.940 to show the justices.

00:02:35.680 And all the law clerks are there.

00:02:37.480 And look, Justice O'Connor was in her 70s.

00:02:40.100 And I still remember when they pulled up porn

00:02:42.200 on the screen, Justice O'Connor just went,

00:02:44.560 oh my.

00:02:46.340 And we're all sitting there

00:02:47.840 like the law clerks are in our 20s.

00:02:49.480 And we're looking at our shoes

00:02:50.600 feeling really, really awkward.

00:02:52.820 And even more awkward is the fact

00:02:55.120 that when they were law students at Stanford,

00:02:57.120 Rehnquist and O'Connor were same class.

00:02:59.160 They actually dated for a while.

00:03:02.000 He was number one in the class.

00:03:03.300 She was number three.

00:03:04.660 So picture this, Michael,

00:03:07.260 40 years from now,

00:03:08.940 you're 70, 80 years old

00:03:11.040 and you're standing in a room

00:03:13.100 with an ex-girlfriend

00:03:14.340 from 40, 50 years ago

00:03:17.080 watching porn.

00:03:18.800 Imagine how awkward it was 0.63

00:03:20.400 for the two of them.

00:03:21.420 Senator, I know you-

00:03:21.920 And the librarians were-

00:03:23.160 I know you've had a lot of strange experiences

00:03:24.860 in politics.

00:03:25.540 I just think I have to stop here

00:03:26.820 for a moment to say

00:03:28.060 that the strangest one

00:03:29.240 I've ever heard from you 0.99

00:03:30.260 is watching hardcore porn 0.98

00:03:32.480 with Justice Sandra Day O'Connor 0.98

00:03:34.520 and her ex-boyfriend,

00:03:36.440 William Rehnquist.

00:03:37.180 I think that one is absolutely

00:03:39.060 the top of the list.

00:03:41.100 It was surreal

00:03:42.580 and I can still hear the oh my

00:03:45.420 like echoing 20 plus years later.

00:03:49.100 But this was right at the beginning

00:03:51.280 of the internet.

00:03:51.920 So you gotta understand,

00:03:52.580 justices didn't know 0.60

00:03:53.280 what the internet was.

00:03:54.300 This was librarians saying,

00:03:55.620 okay, this is this internet thing.

00:03:57.560 You type in things.

00:03:58.640 I still remember, in fact,

00:03:59.980 they turned off the filters

00:04:01.360 and to get to porn,

00:04:03.520 they typed in the word cantaloupe,

00:04:05.940 misspelled.

00:04:07.140 And cantaloupe,

00:04:08.140 I use your imagination,

00:04:10.600 but I guess it pulled up porn.

00:04:13.060 And the librarians were trying to show them,

00:04:15.600 okay, look,

00:04:16.180 people can stumble into this

00:04:17.820 accidentally all the time.

00:04:20.860 Part of that bill,

00:04:22.040 it was section 230,

00:04:24.780 was designed,

00:04:25.620 you had these little internet startups

00:04:26.780 and the idea was,

00:04:28.740 listen,

00:04:29.740 it's not fair to sue a tech company

00:04:32.200 for something somebody posts on there

00:04:34.860 because this is a forum,

00:04:35.880 this is a public square.

00:04:36.940 And so if somebody posts something

00:04:39.020 and you sue the internet company,

00:04:41.320 you could drive them out of business

00:04:42.640 and it's not the tech company

00:04:44.500 that's speaking,

00:04:45.300 it's whoever the users are.

00:04:46.460 So if you post something,

00:04:48.580 the users should be liable,

00:04:50.320 but not the forums.

00:04:51.640 And the predicate for this,

00:04:53.740 this is the policy predicate.

00:04:55.240 But everyone understood

00:04:57.360 big tech were going to be

00:05:00.120 what are called neutral public fora.

00:05:02.280 In other words,

00:05:03.380 they were going to allow everyone to speak.

00:05:05.720 It was going to be

00:05:06.140 the new marketplace of ideas.

00:05:07.800 And so section 230 passed into law.

00:05:10.680 But what it means,

00:05:12.420 you know,

00:05:12.740 Google and Facebook and Twitter,

00:05:14.220 they've got an immunity from liability.

00:05:16.300 Nobody else does.

00:05:17.880 You, Michael Knowles,

00:05:18.940 if you go on the radio

00:05:20.700 and you defame someone,

00:05:22.100 you can be sued.

00:05:23.220 The New York Times,

00:05:24.380 do you know that Google and Facebook

00:05:26.180 have an immunity from liability

00:05:27.340 the New York Times doesn't have?

00:05:28.660 Fox News doesn't have?

00:05:30.340 Everyone else,

00:05:31.420 every American citizen,

00:05:32.720 every American company,

00:05:33.980 it is only big tech

00:05:35.600 that gets this special immunity

00:05:38.120 from liability.

00:05:39.400 So Senator,

00:05:40.040 this is the distinction

00:05:40.880 we've heard about a little bit,

00:05:42.220 which is the platform

00:05:43.680 versus the publisher, right?

00:05:45.160 If you're a neutral platform,

00:05:46.480 you get these protections.

00:05:47.660 But if you're a publisher

00:05:48.520 like the New York Times

00:05:49.620 or the Daily Wire

00:05:50.560 or Fox News or whatever,

00:05:52.260 then you don't get those protections.

00:05:54.280 And the reason for it,

00:05:55.180 of course,

00:05:55.440 is if you could sue Twitter

00:05:57.700 for every defamatory tweet

00:06:00.000 that has ever been tweeted,

00:06:01.420 Twitter would go out of business

00:06:02.420 in approximately five nanoseconds.

00:06:05.660 That could well be true.

00:06:07.360 But, you know,

00:06:07.700 the interesting thing,

00:06:08.640 let's suppose I wrote an op-ed

00:06:10.480 that said with apologies

00:06:12.440 that Michael Knowles

00:06:14.680 has carnal relations

00:06:15.960 with barnyard animals.

00:06:18.020 That's a very graphic show today.

00:06:19.180 And the New York Times published it.

00:06:26.220 And let's assume,

00:06:27.580 and I'm willing to assume

00:06:28.540 for the sake of the podcast,

00:06:29.860 that that is a totally false statement.

00:06:31.960 Thank you.

00:06:33.000 And that I have no basis,

00:06:34.400 that I am willfully being reckless

00:06:36.540 making it up.

00:06:38.580 You as a citizen could sue,

00:06:40.780 you could sue me

00:06:41.500 for defamation,

00:06:43.220 but you could sue the New York Times

00:06:44.680 because by their choice

00:06:45.920 to publish that,

00:06:47.260 if they publish something

00:06:48.460 that's defamatory about you,

00:06:49.740 you can sue the hell out of them.

00:06:51.700 I do the same thing

00:06:52.900 on social media.

00:06:53.920 You can't sue the hell out of them.

00:06:55.200 And the reason is

00:06:56.420 that Congress made a determination

00:06:58.520 20 years ago,

00:07:00.440 these are special public forum.

00:07:02.320 Now, here's what's changed.

00:07:04.220 Big tech has decided,

00:07:05.680 and they've decided it only

00:07:06.580 in the last couple of years,

00:07:08.300 they don't want to be neutral anymore.

00:07:09.940 Yeah.

00:07:10.520 They want to be political players.

00:07:12.600 They want to editorialize.

00:07:14.220 They want to silence voices

00:07:16.360 they don't like.

00:07:17.240 And so they're deliberately

00:07:18.380 amplifying lefty voices

00:07:20.200 and silencing conservative voices.

00:07:23.160 And it's, okay, fine.

00:07:25.040 If they want to do that, fine.

00:07:26.500 But one of the obvious steps is

00:07:28.820 you don't get a special immunity

00:07:31.120 from liability

00:07:31.880 that nobody else gets.

00:07:33.200 We're not going to treat you differently

00:07:34.780 because if you're going to behave

00:07:36.180 like the New York Times,

00:07:37.300 you should face the same legal risks

00:07:41.120 the New York Times faces.

00:07:42.660 That makes sense.

00:07:43.460 We've heard from some legal scholars

00:07:47.360 on the left or jurists on the left

00:07:50.000 that really Section 230

00:07:51.820 shouldn't be applied this way.

00:07:53.680 It's not about political stances

00:07:55.500 and conservatives are abusing this.

00:07:57.880 But the argument you've just made

00:07:59.160 and that you've actually been making

00:08:00.240 for quite some time now

00:08:01.400 is the argument that was made today

00:08:03.280 by Attorney General William Barr.

00:08:05.140 It's the argument that was made

00:08:06.220 by President Trump.

00:08:07.100 So it seems that Section 230

00:08:09.500 is the key here

00:08:11.120 to the conservatives' argument

00:08:12.780 to stopping this big tech censorship.

00:08:15.760 Can you just go into a little bit

00:08:17.200 of the political debate

00:08:18.420 or maybe how the Trump administration

00:08:20.200 came to adopt this idea?

00:08:21.960 Look, the simplest thing I have to say

00:08:24.580 about this executive order 0.98

00:08:25.700 is it's about damn time. 0.98

00:08:27.100 I have literally been urging 0.98

00:08:29.600 this administration to do this

00:08:31.060 for three and a half years.

00:08:32.860 In the last three and a half years,

00:08:34.700 you know, look, I'm in the Senate.

00:08:36.520 I'm a legislator.

00:08:37.220 I can share hearings.

00:08:38.140 I've shared hearings highlighting

00:08:39.840 the rampant censorship

00:08:41.440 and political bias.

00:08:42.740 I can introduce legislation.

00:08:44.320 I've advocated for legislation.

00:08:46.320 But I'm not the executive.

00:08:47.860 It's the executive

00:08:48.900 that actually has enforcement ability,

00:08:51.060 that actually has prosecutors

00:08:53.020 and grand juries

00:08:53.880 and subpoenas

00:08:54.900 and can enforce the law.

00:08:57.280 So I have in the last three years,

00:08:59.280 I have spent hours

00:09:01.760 meeting with Bill Barr,

00:09:03.120 the attorney general,

00:09:03.920 on this topic.

00:09:04.840 I have spent hours

00:09:05.900 with Jeff Rosen,

00:09:07.060 the deputy attorney general,

00:09:08.200 on this topic.

00:09:09.000 I've spent hours

00:09:10.000 with Macon Delrahim,

00:09:11.440 the head of the antitrust division

00:09:12.680 at the Department of Justice,

00:09:13.900 on this topic.

00:09:14.740 I've spent hours

00:09:15.480 with Joe Simons,

00:09:16.520 the head of the Federal Trade Commission,

00:09:18.140 who I used to work with.

00:09:19.040 I know Joe very well,

00:09:20.240 on this topic.

00:09:21.180 I've spent hours

00:09:21.940 with the president,

00:09:22.860 with the vice president,

00:09:24.160 with the White House chief of staff,

00:09:25.660 with the White House counsel

00:09:27.340 urging them.

00:09:28.960 And here's been the problem.

00:09:31.340 Everybody,

00:09:32.220 it's not quite

00:09:33.000 in their jurisdiction.

00:09:34.940 It doesn't quite fit

00:09:36.420 in the neat.

00:09:36.960 So everyone says,

00:09:37.780 yeah, yeah,

00:09:38.080 it's a problem.

00:09:38.580 They've agreed it's a problem.

00:09:39.640 And by the way,

00:09:40.220 Barr and Rosen

00:09:40.720 especially agreed

00:09:41.500 it's a real problem.

00:09:43.020 But it doesn't fit neatly

00:09:45.120 in anyone's

00:09:46.200 sort of traditional

00:09:47.160 job description.

00:09:48.980 And so the president,

00:09:50.060 listen,

00:09:50.260 the president's been frustrated

00:09:51.220 and pissed off 0.87

00:09:51.840 about this

00:09:52.320 for a long time.

00:09:53.660 But nobody on his team

00:09:54.900 has been willing

00:09:55.320 to do anything about it.

00:09:56.840 And so I do find it

00:09:58.360 kind of ironic

00:09:59.080 that Twitter

00:10:01.100 decided to be 1.00

00:10:03.100 such jackasses. 1.00

00:10:05.940 You know, 1.00

00:10:06.560 look,

00:10:06.800 my view has always been

00:10:08.340 in the kind of hierarchy

00:10:09.360 of big tech.

00:10:10.960 The worst is Google

00:10:12.280 and YouTube,

00:10:13.200 which they own.

00:10:14.000 You know,

00:10:14.160 Google,

00:10:14.620 their motto used to be

00:10:15.520 don't be evil.

00:10:16.240 Now their motto is just evil.

00:10:17.780 Yeah,

00:10:18.060 be evil.

00:10:18.720 Under Google

00:10:21.360 has been Twitter

00:10:22.460 and then under that

00:10:23.960 is Facebook.

00:10:24.640 Look,

00:10:24.800 Facebook's pretty bad too,

00:10:25.980 but there's tiny moments

00:10:27.180 where they're trying.

00:10:28.440 I think Jack Dorsey

00:10:29.620 at Twitter

00:10:30.120 decided,

00:10:31.220 you know what,

00:10:32.000 I'm tired of Google

00:10:33.040 being the worst player

00:10:34.000 on earth.

00:10:34.840 And so this whole thing

00:10:35.740 was prompted 1.00

00:10:36.420 because the idiots 1.00

00:10:37.720 decided to fact check 1.00

00:10:39.900 the president's tweet

00:10:41.580 on voter fraud.

00:10:43.140 And by the way,

00:10:44.440 number one,

00:10:45.060 they linked to CNN,

00:10:46.120 which is so profoundly wrong

00:10:47.320 on so many issues, 0.88

00:10:48.040 it's ridiculous.

00:10:49.680 But Twitter, 0.67

00:10:50.960 I think,

00:10:51.260 just pissed off

00:10:52.140 the president

00:10:52.740 and thank God

00:10:54.240 they did

00:10:54.980 because what I assume

00:10:56.240 happened,

00:10:56.780 and I don't know this,

00:10:58.200 but I assume

00:10:59.140 he blew his top

00:11:00.260 and told everyone 1.00

00:11:01.200 somebody get off your ass 1.00

00:11:02.880 and do something about it 1.00

00:11:04.160 and it motivated them

00:11:06.340 to finally do this.

00:11:07.200 I'm glad they did.

00:11:08.340 I think this is

00:11:09.240 an incredible threat.

00:11:11.440 Big tech censorship

00:11:12.400 is the biggest threat

00:11:13.820 to free speech

00:11:14.800 and to fair elections

00:11:17.580 and democracy.

00:11:18.260 we got in the whole country.

00:11:19.040 And to Facebook's credit,

00:11:20.500 actually,

00:11:20.740 Mark Zuckerberg came out today

00:11:22.160 and he said,

00:11:23.200 I don't think

00:11:24.060 that big tech

00:11:24.700 should be the arbiters

00:11:25.780 of truth,

00:11:26.620 basically directly

00:11:27.500 contradicting

00:11:28.240 Jack Dorsey at Twitter.

00:11:29.520 So, I mean,

00:11:29.860 that's a good move.

00:11:31.160 You know,

00:11:31.640 just what do we think

00:11:33.200 the conclusion

00:11:33.800 of this will be?

00:11:34.960 It seems that the threat

00:11:36.180 would be

00:11:36.600 to get Twitter

00:11:37.440 to back off,

00:11:38.100 to not interfere

00:11:38.720 in the presidential election,

00:11:39.800 to not put their thumb

00:11:40.760 on the scales

00:11:41.420 of how information

00:11:42.420 moves around the internet.

00:11:43.400 If they don't back off,

00:11:45.560 are we looking

00:11:46.160 at a world

00:11:46.620 in which Twitter

00:11:47.460 really does lose

00:11:48.220 its protections

00:11:48.800 and Twitter goes down?

00:11:50.440 Look,

00:11:50.940 I hope so.

00:11:52.640 Although,

00:11:53.020 listen,

00:11:53.340 I say I hope so,

00:11:55.120 but I love Twitter.

00:11:57.060 Twitter is a vehicle

00:11:58.160 to engage

00:11:59.040 in public debates,

00:12:00.180 to go back and forth.

00:12:01.740 Twitter,

00:12:02.260 as a neutral public forum,

00:12:03.500 actually works quite well.

00:12:04.740 It's only recently

00:12:05.720 that they've decided 0.96

00:12:06.980 to let their crazy lefty go. 0.98

00:12:09.980 And actually, 0.97

00:12:10.420 Michael,

00:12:10.700 I'll tell you

00:12:11.120 a Zuckerberg story.

00:12:12.360 Yeah.

00:12:13.220 So,

00:12:13.980 as you know,

00:12:14.720 Zuckerberg testified

00:12:15.620 in front of the Senate.

00:12:16.840 A lot of us pounded it.

00:12:17.960 He and I went back and forth

00:12:19.280 in a very public exchange

00:12:20.700 when he was testifying.

00:12:22.360 Well,

00:12:23.000 last year,

00:12:24.560 Zuckerberg came to D.C.

00:12:26.720 and reached out

00:12:28.400 to my office

00:12:29.060 and asked if I'd be willing

00:12:30.260 to sit down

00:12:30.760 and get together.

00:12:32.540 He and I had dinner together.

00:12:34.360 And it was,

00:12:35.580 you know,

00:12:36.980 it was kind of interesting.

00:12:37.760 We thought about

00:12:38.380 actually going to a restaurant,

00:12:40.060 but to be honest,

00:12:41.060 if Mark Zuckerberg and I

00:12:42.160 sat down at a restaurant in D.C.,

00:12:44.520 people would lose their minds.

00:12:46.040 I mean,

00:12:46.160 I think they'd start

00:12:47.360 running around screaming

00:12:48.360 and lighting their hair on fire.

00:12:50.120 So,

00:12:50.680 so we didn't do it

00:12:51.520 in a restaurant.

00:12:52.360 We did it at somebody's house

00:12:54.240 and it was just,

00:12:56.020 it was Zuckerberg and me

00:12:57.300 and it was a couple of people

00:12:58.820 on my staff,

00:12:59.440 a couple of people

00:12:59.840 on his staff.

00:13:00.380 So it was a very small dinner

00:13:01.380 and it was like three hours long.

00:13:03.800 And it was actually,

00:13:04.380 look,

00:13:04.480 it was a lot of fun.

00:13:05.680 Listen,

00:13:05.980 Zuckerberg comes across

00:13:08.000 as he's a smart,

00:13:10.400 geeky techie.

00:13:12.960 And I'll give him some credit.

00:13:14.640 Look,

00:13:14.780 he's actually trying to wrestle

00:13:16.380 through these issues.

00:13:17.460 Yeah.

00:13:17.760 But look,

00:13:19.640 he,

00:13:20.660 and to be honest,

00:13:21.480 we went round and round and round

00:13:23.880 on just,

00:13:26.020 what I was advocating was,

00:13:27.400 look,

00:13:27.640 how about some basic free speech?

00:13:30.200 How about just

00:13:31.100 let the marketplace of ideas,

00:13:33.360 if you disagree with someone,

00:13:34.940 let something like,

00:13:35.620 let people argue.

00:13:37.900 Trump tweets all sorts of things

00:13:39.340 I disagree with.

00:13:40.220 I don't think the answer

00:13:41.160 is to let some Silicon Valley

00:13:42.700 billionaires silence him

00:13:44.000 if you disagree with him.

00:13:46.060 Say you disagree with him,

00:13:48.180 but Zuckerberg

00:13:49.080 is trying.

00:13:52.600 He actually,

00:13:53.540 shortly after the dinner

00:13:54.460 I had with him,

00:13:55.220 he gave a speech,

00:13:56.960 I think it was at Georgetown,

00:13:58.060 maybe somewhere in DC,

00:14:00.080 advocating principles

00:14:01.460 of free speech.

00:14:02.220 Now look,

00:14:02.680 Facebook has been bumpy on this.

00:14:04.780 Yeah.

00:14:05.380 But compared to Twitter and Google,

00:14:07.300 they've been much,

00:14:08.540 much better.

00:14:09.100 And you can see them,

00:14:12.540 Twitter doesn't care anymore.

00:14:14.160 And,

00:14:14.260 and,

00:14:14.360 and by the way,

00:14:17.600 YouTube?

00:14:18.620 Yeah.

00:14:20.160 CEO of YouTube

00:14:21.000 came by my office

00:14:21.920 to talk about this.

00:14:23.620 And her attitude 0.79

00:14:24.900 was essentially,

00:14:26.620 well,

00:14:26.780 I can't even say it,

00:14:27.820 but it was,

00:14:28.500 it was screw it,

00:14:30.000 although,

00:14:30.480 although said more graphically

00:14:31.780 than that.

00:14:32.660 Yikes.

00:14:33.240 Um,

00:14:34.740 it was simply,

00:14:35.940 we have power

00:14:36.740 and we'll use power.

00:14:37.920 And you know what?

00:14:38.760 She actually wanted credit

00:14:39.920 because she said,

00:14:41.960 well,

00:14:42.140 you know,

00:14:42.540 people on the left

00:14:43.540 want us to completely

00:14:45.180 silence people.

00:14:46.040 So we're talking about

00:14:46.660 Steven Crowder,

00:14:47.400 a friend of ours.

00:14:48.480 Yep.

00:14:48.940 Um,

00:14:49.300 comedian and,

00:14:50.220 and,

00:14:50.420 and,

00:14:50.620 and YouTube

00:14:51.380 demonetized him.

00:14:53.800 Boy,

00:14:53.960 talk about an Orwellian word.

00:14:55.340 We will take away

00:14:56.420 all your money.

00:14:57.680 We're not censoring you.

00:14:58.820 We're just taking away

00:14:59.340 your CEO wanted,

00:15:01.940 she wanted props

00:15:03.620 because she said,

00:15:04.400 well,

00:15:04.800 we still allow him to post.

00:15:06.420 We didn't,

00:15:06.900 we didn't silence him

00:15:08.040 altogether.

00:15:09.220 I'm like, 0.87

00:15:09.460 what the hell are you talking? 0.94

00:15:10.520 Okay. 0.98

00:15:11.060 And she's like,

00:15:11.600 well,

00:15:11.700 that's what the people

00:15:12.520 of the left

00:15:12.940 wanted us to do.

00:15:13.620 I said,

00:15:13.820 listen,

00:15:14.120 the calls for censorship

00:15:15.160 are only coming 0.98

00:15:16.700 from the crazy leftists. 0.98

00:15:17.940 I'm not asking you 0.93

00:15:19.160 to silence Bernie Sanders.

00:15:21.060 Right.

00:15:21.820 Or AOC.

00:15:22.780 God knows they can

00:15:23.500 prattle on forever,

00:15:24.420 but let them talk.

00:15:25.600 Their ideas are so bad.

00:15:27.000 We'll engage with them

00:15:27.820 on substance.

00:15:28.840 Yep.

00:15:29.340 But I am glad

00:15:32.580 the administration

00:15:33.460 has jumped in.

00:15:34.160 By the way,

00:15:34.540 there are other things

00:15:35.180 they can do.

00:15:36.200 Antitrust agencies,

00:15:37.200 both DOJ and FTC

00:15:38.320 have been engaged

00:15:38.940 in investigations.

00:15:40.280 These are monopolies

00:15:41.220 and they're abusing

00:15:41.900 monopoly power.

00:15:43.120 Something else they can do

00:15:44.000 that's in the executive order

00:15:45.440 that's important.

00:15:45.980 It's not just Section 230,

00:15:47.440 but it's deceptive trade practices.

00:15:50.560 I'm really glad

00:15:51.540 the order tells

00:15:52.660 the attorney general

00:15:53.480 to work with

00:15:54.160 the state attorney's general.

00:15:55.580 I've also talked at length

00:15:56.760 with the Texas attorney general

00:15:58.200 who's leading

00:15:59.280 a state lawsuits

00:16:00.420 about these deceptive practices.

00:16:04.080 And Bill Barr today

00:16:05.660 in the Oval Office,

00:16:06.520 he said it well

00:16:07.280 and actually he reflected

00:16:08.440 a lot of what he and I

00:16:09.500 talked about over breakfast.

00:16:11.360 He said,

00:16:12.120 listen,

00:16:12.460 these tech companies

00:16:13.420 have built their platforms

00:16:15.520 on a lie.

00:16:17.020 They tell people

00:16:18.140 if you come to our platform,

00:16:19.400 you can speak

00:16:20.440 and if you sign up

00:16:22.020 to follow someone,

00:16:23.580 you can watch them.

00:16:24.800 You can see what they post

00:16:26.120 and if they sign up

00:16:26.960 to follow you,

00:16:27.960 they can see what you post.

00:16:29.160 That's the fundamental promise

00:16:30.660 and that is a lie.

00:16:32.580 We know Twitter shadow bans.

00:16:34.040 If they don't like you,

00:16:35.360 people who say,

00:16:36.940 I want to follow Michael Knowles,

00:16:38.460 I care what Michael Knowles

00:16:39.580 has to say,

00:16:40.680 Twitter says,

00:16:41.200 no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:16:42.040 We're just going to silently

00:16:43.040 make it go away.

00:16:44.240 That is a lie.

00:16:45.400 That is fraud.

00:16:46.920 And I'm glad

00:16:47.860 this executive order

00:16:48.780 takes a step

00:16:49.640 towards real legal liability

00:16:51.680 for defrauding consumers,

00:16:53.740 which is what big tech is doing.

00:16:54.880 That's a big key

00:16:55.820 to this whole issue

00:16:56.700 is the dishonesty,

00:16:57.860 is the fraud,

00:16:58.820 is the very, very possible

00:17:00.460 and it seems likely

00:17:02.220 violation of these laws.

00:17:03.980 So it's very good.

00:17:05.160 We'll see what happens from it.

00:17:06.580 I mean,

00:17:06.820 sort of the ball now

00:17:07.900 is in the court of big tech.

00:17:09.640 We'll see how they react to it.

00:17:10.900 I want to get your opinion

00:17:11.960 on something,

00:17:12.720 by the way,

00:17:13.880 directly related

00:17:14.940 to this social media marketplace,

00:17:17.420 which is a few incidents

00:17:19.260 that have popped up

00:17:20.020 over the last week or so.

00:17:21.520 And they've really

00:17:22.360 gained national attention

00:17:23.300 because of social media.

00:17:24.800 The most prominent one

00:17:25.820 would be the killing

00:17:27.080 of George Floyd

00:17:28.540 in Minneapolis.

00:17:29.820 There's a police officer

00:17:30.600 who arrested this man.

00:17:32.580 You've got a white officer, 0.92

00:17:34.720 black perpetrator, 0.97

00:17:36.840 I suppose, 0.99

00:17:37.340 or alleged perpetrator.

00:17:38.800 And the suspect ends up dead.

00:17:42.160 The guy's got his knee

00:17:43.280 on his neck.

00:17:44.040 I mean,

00:17:44.160 it looks really bad.

00:17:44.940 And then this spreads

00:17:45.820 on social media.

00:17:47.060 Now there are riots erupting

00:17:49.080 around the country,

00:17:49.960 not even just in Minneapolis,

00:17:51.360 also in Los Angeles.

00:17:52.920 There is looting going on.

00:17:55.080 I'd like to get your perspective

00:17:56.280 on that video

00:17:58.460 from both a social media perspective,

00:18:01.360 a social perspective,

00:18:02.220 and also from the perspective

00:18:03.820 of policing.

00:18:05.220 Well,

00:18:05.460 what happened in Minneapolis

00:18:06.580 was horrific.

00:18:08.120 It was wrong.

00:18:09.140 I've watched that video.

00:18:10.780 And listen,

00:18:11.260 anytime you have an incident

00:18:12.460 with police,

00:18:13.600 sometimes the social media mob

00:18:18.360 is quick to demonize

00:18:19.820 the police officer.

00:18:20.880 And I've long advocated

00:18:22.300 we should wait for the facts

00:18:23.940 to play out.

00:18:24.920 That being said,

00:18:26.000 I watched that video

00:18:27.200 and you had a man

00:18:30.700 in handcuffs

00:18:31.520 on his face

00:18:32.360 on the pavement

00:18:33.000 with an officer's knee

00:18:35.380 in the back of his neck

00:18:36.800 pushing it

00:18:37.540 into the pavement.

00:18:38.540 He's gasping for breath.

00:18:40.140 He's pleading

00:18:40.700 that he can't breathe.

00:18:41.940 And the officer continues

00:18:43.060 for eight minutes.

00:18:44.880 That is,

00:18:46.080 on the face of it,

00:18:47.460 police brutality.

00:18:50.160 And anyone

00:18:51.080 who believes in liberty

00:18:52.200 should not want

00:18:53.620 to see authoritarianism

00:18:55.600 and authority abused.

00:18:57.840 The police officer

00:18:58.880 has been fired

00:18:59.600 and the Department of Justice

00:19:00.600 has opened an investigation,

00:19:02.060 a civil rights investigation.

00:19:03.200 I'm glad they have.

00:19:05.040 Watching that

00:19:06.120 pisses me off. 0.72

00:19:08.060 And by the way, 0.95

00:19:09.600 you know,

00:19:10.140 the social media mob

00:19:11.620 is quick to paint this.

00:19:14.040 As far as they're concerned,

00:19:15.660 that was Donald Trump

00:19:16.480 with his knee

00:19:16.960 on the back of the neck.

00:19:19.560 Let me be clear.

00:19:20.680 This is Minneapolis, Minnesota.

00:19:22.880 You've got a Democratic mayor.

00:19:24.900 You've got a Democratic governor.

00:19:26.180 You've got Democratic senators.

00:19:28.160 This is bright blue.

00:19:29.640 And we keep seeing

00:19:30.820 these things happen.

00:19:32.000 This abuse of power,

00:19:33.860 often in Democratic strongholds,

00:19:37.380 where people that claim

00:19:39.780 to be interested

00:19:41.940 in defending people's rights,

00:19:43.540 they're not doing

00:19:44.560 a good job of it.

00:19:45.400 Right.

00:19:45.800 I mean,

00:19:46.100 I think a little bit

00:19:47.080 of perspective here is key.

00:19:48.620 And it's why it's so good

00:19:50.620 to get your opinion on this

00:19:51.500 is you're not only somebody

00:19:53.040 with a Twitter account,

00:19:54.000 but you also happen

00:19:55.380 to know quite a bit

00:19:56.380 about the way

00:19:56.980 the criminal justice system works,

00:19:58.800 having worked in it

00:19:59.480 for a long time.

00:20:00.120 I think that perspective

00:20:00.960 really helps.

00:20:02.180 We saw a less tragic,

00:20:04.480 much more frivolous example

00:20:05.920 of this also

00:20:06.660 just a few days earlier,

00:20:08.040 which was this altercation

00:20:09.360 that happened

00:20:09.780 in Central Park.

00:20:10.940 There was a man

00:20:12.160 talking to this woman

00:20:13.620 and basically said,

00:20:15.140 put your dog on a leash.

00:20:16.460 She said no.

00:20:17.620 The man,

00:20:18.180 for some reason,

00:20:18.760 had dog treats

00:20:19.580 in his bag

00:20:20.680 just for this sort of occasion.

00:20:23.260 When people don't have

00:20:24.140 their dogs on leashes,

00:20:24.800 he lures them away

00:20:25.600 with the treats.

00:20:26.600 Then this woman

00:20:27.500 sort of lost her temper

00:20:29.040 and had a little bit

00:20:29.880 of an emotional meltdown.

00:20:31.460 And then he started filming it.

00:20:32.960 And it, you know,

00:20:33.880 what was the end result of this?

00:20:35.620 Nothing happened.

00:20:36.320 I mean,

00:20:36.540 after the videos went public,

00:20:38.200 then this woman

00:20:38.940 lost her job

00:20:39.540 and lost her dog.

00:20:40.360 But in the moment itself,

00:20:42.100 it seemed a little bit

00:20:43.280 like much,

00:20:43.860 much ado about nothing.

00:20:45.700 The social media mob

00:20:47.440 is what made it

00:20:48.360 so much worse,

00:20:49.920 so much more sensational.

00:20:51.620 Is there a world

00:20:53.480 in which we should perhaps

00:20:54.420 hope that maybe social media

00:20:56.440 takes it down a few notches

00:20:57.960 because of this sort of emotion

00:21:00.380 that it can gin up?

00:21:01.500 Yeah, look,

00:21:02.160 I got to say,

00:21:02.700 I have a little bit

00:21:03.460 different take on it.

00:21:04.420 There's no doubt

00:21:05.520 that that incident

00:21:06.220 showed the power

00:21:06.980 of social media

00:21:07.660 and that an iPhone video

00:21:10.060 can suddenly get millions

00:21:11.160 of views all across the world.

00:21:13.100 I have to admit,

00:21:14.740 the woman who was involved,

00:21:17.300 her behavior was atrocious.

00:21:18.600 Of course, yeah.

00:21:19.180 This was an individual,

00:21:23.020 an African-American individual

00:21:24.160 who was there birdwatching,

00:21:25.760 who at least on the video we saw

00:21:27.540 didn't do anything

00:21:28.220 remotely threatening to her.

00:21:29.840 And to watch her

00:21:30.820 be willing to,

00:21:33.900 listen,

00:21:34.280 making a false accusation

00:21:36.240 deliberately

00:21:37.940 is an act of violence.

00:21:39.700 And when this woman,

00:21:42.900 Amy Cooper,

00:21:43.480 picks up her phone

00:21:44.300 and calls 911

00:21:45.280 and she says,

00:21:47.060 an African-American man

00:21:48.280 is physically threatening

00:21:49.420 me and my dog

00:21:50.240 and she calls in

00:21:51.620 what by all appearances

00:21:53.260 is a totally false crime report

00:21:55.280 and it's a dangerous crime report.

00:21:57.840 Listen,

00:21:58.220 if you call the police

00:21:59.420 and say someone

00:22:00.220 is physically threatening me, 0.67

00:22:02.380 you are asking

00:22:03.000 for law enforcement

00:22:03.880 to show up with guns

00:22:05.200 and the very real consequence

00:22:07.880 of that could be

00:22:09.540 that the person

00:22:10.600 you're wrongly accusing 0.98

00:22:11.800 gets shot and killed. 0.95

00:22:14.240 Listen, 1.00

00:22:14.520 when officers arrive

00:22:15.760 to an assault in progress,

00:22:19.320 there is a risk

00:22:22.320 of something going really wrong

00:22:23.740 and she was in a very real sense

00:22:25.280 endangering his life.

00:22:26.840 Now,

00:22:26.980 I got to say,

00:22:27.480 the fact that he had dog treats

00:22:28.700 and was trying to feed her dog,

00:22:29.800 if I'm walking my dog,

00:22:30.860 stay the hell away from my dog 1.00

00:22:31.920 and don't give him dog treats,

00:22:32.980 that's a little out there.

00:22:35.920 But the attitude she expressed

00:22:39.140 were clearly racist,

00:22:40.440 they were clearly wrong.

00:22:41.540 And by the way,

00:22:43.600 the same point I made

00:22:44.480 about Minneapolis holds here.

00:22:46.460 You saw the Twitter mob

00:22:49.060 saying,

00:22:49.860 oh,

00:22:50.160 this is the age of Donald Trump.

00:22:52.820 They blame Donald Trump for it.

00:22:54.880 Well,

00:22:55.020 then the story comes out

00:22:56.780 that to the shock of nobody,

00:23:00.200 she's apparently

00:23:01.260 a liberal Democratic donor

00:23:02.900 who's donated to Barack Obama,

00:23:04.720 to Pete Buttigieg

00:23:05.620 and to John Kerry.

00:23:07.680 Right.

00:23:08.400 And of course she is.

00:23:09.920 You know,

00:23:10.900 to be honest,

00:23:12.500 well,

00:23:12.840 look,

00:23:13.140 actually,

00:23:14.040 there is racism

00:23:14.860 on both sides of the aisle,

00:23:17.260 but the left,

00:23:20.880 many on the left

00:23:22.080 love to jump in a soapbox

00:23:23.580 and moralize.

00:23:25.280 That's right.

00:23:25.740 And you bring up

00:23:26.460 such a great point

00:23:27.280 because we shouldn't downplay,

00:23:29.340 and in the instance

00:23:29.880 in Central Park,

00:23:30.780 we shouldn't downplay

00:23:31.520 the woman's atrocious behavior 1.00

00:23:33.220 just because you point out

00:23:34.660 that there's more

00:23:35.320 to the story,

00:23:36.080 for instance,

00:23:36.920 than,

00:23:37.360 you know,

00:23:37.780 she's totally wrong

00:23:39.280 and he's totally right.

00:23:41.260 I mean,

00:23:41.460 maybe some of his behavior

00:23:42.380 was a little odd too.

00:23:43.660 Maybe it doesn't justify

00:23:44.400 her behavior.

00:23:45.420 The same thing,

00:23:46.080 obviously,

00:23:46.260 you can look at

00:23:46.900 what is pretty clearly

00:23:48.420 police brutality

00:23:49.360 in Minneapolis

00:23:50.500 and condemn that

00:23:52.900 as being terrible

00:23:53.620 and not,

00:23:55.080 therefore,

00:23:55.480 start defending looting

00:23:56.980 and burning down businesses.

00:23:58.380 You know,

00:23:58.500 it seems that there's

00:23:59.380 this knee-jerk reaction

00:24:00.540 on social media

00:24:01.340 where we immediately

00:24:02.320 have to take a side

00:24:03.320 and say,

00:24:03.800 one person was totally wrong,

00:24:05.260 one person was totally right,

00:24:06.620 when really,

00:24:07.160 situations are much

00:24:08.600 more complex than that

00:24:09.620 and maybe a little bit

00:24:11.220 of perspective

00:24:11.820 on the legal side,

00:24:13.420 on the policing side,

00:24:14.180 on the social side

00:24:14.880 can help us

00:24:15.680 to understand those things.

00:24:17.280 Well,

00:24:17.520 and listen,

00:24:18.120 police brutality,

00:24:19.500 it undermines

00:24:21.820 not just the community,

00:24:23.280 but it undermines

00:24:24.460 law enforcement as well.

00:24:25.800 Right.

00:24:27.100 I'm blessed to know

00:24:28.260 a lot of men and women

00:24:29.540 who are law enforcement officers

00:24:30.880 and they feel

00:24:32.060 that whenever something happens,

00:24:34.820 the mob immediately

00:24:37.580 assumes they're at fault

00:24:38.740 and there are instances,

00:24:41.180 a lot of instances,

00:24:42.140 where an officer

00:24:42.940 is scared for his life

00:24:44.220 and is protecting himself

00:24:45.900 and it's one thing,

00:24:47.560 so I watch the video

00:24:48.720 and sometimes these videos

00:24:50.340 don't capture

00:24:51.040 everything that happened,

00:24:52.180 there may have been

00:24:52.680 something that happened

00:24:53.460 before that's not on it,

00:24:54.860 so you have to

00:24:55.620 view all of this

00:24:57.080 with skepticism

00:24:58.000 and so there are times

00:24:59.740 when an officer

00:25:00.320 has to use physical force

00:25:01.880 and serious force

00:25:02.960 to subdue a dangerous individual.

00:25:06.900 What made this video

00:25:08.200 so damning

00:25:09.000 is that it lasts eight minutes

00:25:10.280 and the guy is in handcuffs

00:25:11.860 and his face is there

00:25:12.840 and he's gasping for breath

00:25:14.080 and he's pleading

00:25:14.820 and this officer

00:25:17.000 doesn't do anything

00:25:18.100 other than keep the knee

00:25:19.300 pressing into his neck.

00:25:20.860 That was grotesque and wrong,

00:25:24.940 particularly there are

00:25:25.600 multiple other officers around.

00:25:27.240 It's very hard

00:25:28.060 to look at that video

00:25:28.980 and suggest

00:25:29.700 there was any reason

00:25:31.120 that officer believed,

00:25:32.300 was afraid for his safety

00:25:33.780 as compared to just being

00:25:35.520 brutalizing someone

00:25:37.580 who was already immobilized

00:25:39.160 and that is not

00:25:42.380 how law enforcement

00:25:43.360 should operate

00:25:44.080 and that's not

00:25:44.960 how they usually do

00:25:46.220 and it's why it's good

00:25:48.280 that the Department of Justice

00:25:49.720 is looking into this

00:25:52.900 and I very much hope

00:25:53.760 justice is served here.

00:25:56.140 That's right

00:25:56.640 because the effect

00:25:58.560 of this ultimately

00:25:59.260 is going to be

00:25:59.800 to undermine our faith

00:26:01.040 in these very institutions

00:26:02.880 that would be

00:26:03.760 maintaining law and order,

00:26:05.160 maintaining civil society.

00:26:06.420 It has far wider

00:26:07.980 reaching consequences

00:26:08.920 than many would admit.

00:26:10.540 Before we go,

00:26:11.120 we've got to get to

00:26:11.520 a little bit of mailbag.

00:26:13.520 First question,

00:26:14.720 you know,

00:26:14.980 a really easy one

00:26:16.480 to,

00:26:17.100 I'm sure you can answer

00:26:18.020 this in 10 or 20 seconds.

00:26:19.860 From Norman,

00:26:20.780 how should pro-America

00:26:21.960 nationalists

00:26:22.600 think about Hong Kong?

00:26:23.900 You know,

00:26:24.120 a really easy topic

00:26:25.140 like China and Hong Kong.

00:26:26.300 So what China is doing

00:26:28.600 is trying to take over

00:26:30.140 Hong Kong completely,

00:26:31.720 trying to subject it

00:26:33.900 to the communist government's

00:26:35.620 authoritarianism,

00:26:36.720 trying to strip their rights 0.75

00:26:37.900 of democracy,

00:26:38.700 trying to strip their rights 0.75

00:26:39.720 of free speech.

00:26:41.120 It is a power grab

00:26:42.580 and it is wrong.

00:26:43.480 And by the way,

00:26:44.740 when Hong Kong,

00:26:45.800 Hong Kong used to be part

00:26:47.060 of the British Empire

00:26:48.540 and then it,

00:26:49.140 when it rejoined China,

00:26:51.060 China agreed to have 0.96

00:26:52.380 two separate systems

00:26:54.480 and to protect freedom

00:26:56.340 and democracy in China.

00:26:58.020 China's now changed its mind

00:26:59.300 and it's crushing freedom.

00:27:01.360 There are a lot of consequences.

00:27:03.100 We just saw this week

00:27:04.240 the State Department

00:27:05.420 issue a report

00:27:06.380 that Hong Kong

00:27:07.760 is no longer autonomous

00:27:08.880 from China.

00:27:10.040 They did so

00:27:10.980 because of legislation

00:27:11.880 that I wrote.

00:27:12.860 I authored legislation

00:27:14.160 that was included

00:27:14.800 in a bigger bill

00:27:15.680 that directed

00:27:16.600 the State Department

00:27:17.440 to assess whether Hong Kong

00:27:18.860 had real autonomy.

00:27:20.200 We just got the report

00:27:21.160 this week.

00:27:21.540 I talked with the State Department

00:27:22.540 this week

00:27:23.000 right after they issued it.

00:27:24.880 The consequences

00:27:26.160 of that is significant.

00:27:27.220 There are a lot of things

00:27:28.040 that flow from that

00:27:29.000 in terms of,

00:27:30.700 number one,

00:27:31.320 Treasury Department

00:27:32.040 and sanctions

00:27:32.620 that could easily flow.

00:27:34.320 You know,

00:27:34.780 China wants to use Hong Kong 0.98

00:27:36.320 as this sort of

00:27:37.040 free market bastion

00:27:38.160 to get around

00:27:38.920 the restrictions on China,

00:27:40.800 but at the same time

00:27:42.200 they want to trample

00:27:42.920 freedom there.

00:27:44.200 Tariffs,

00:27:44.700 the U.S. trade representative,

00:27:46.520 the tariffs we have

00:27:47.560 against China,

00:27:48.340 Hong Kong is exempt from that.

00:27:49.880 I think given

00:27:50.740 this determination,

00:27:52.040 we will see,

00:27:53.380 I believe,

00:27:54.000 a determination

00:27:54.500 from the President

00:27:55.600 and the White House

00:27:56.360 that will result

00:27:57.200 in some very significant

00:27:58.880 legal consequences

00:28:00.840 basically ending

00:28:02.900 Hong Kong's special status

00:28:04.680 because China

00:28:05.920 is no longer honoring

00:28:06.980 the agreement they have.

00:28:08.300 That's a very good point

00:28:10.380 because I guess

00:28:11.500 this gets back

00:28:12.140 to what we were talking about

00:28:13.100 with big tech.

00:28:14.840 Some players in the world

00:28:16.200 are trying to have it both ways.

00:28:17.600 They're trying to get

00:28:18.060 certain special protections

00:28:19.600 when actually they're violating

00:28:21.300 the very basis

00:28:22.220 of those protections.

00:28:23.360 Something to look at in China. 1.00

00:28:24.440 Then finally,

00:28:25.640 maybe the most important question

00:28:27.380 that we keep getting

00:28:29.400 recurring here

00:28:30.240 when it comes

00:28:30.860 to criminal justice.

00:28:32.600 What is Ted Cruz's stance

00:28:34.200 on the legalization

00:28:35.520 of marijuana?

00:28:37.820 Leave it to the states.

00:28:39.620 Listen,

00:28:40.160 I have

00:28:40.880 very libertarian instincts

00:28:43.920 and I have to admit

00:28:45.560 on pot legalization

00:28:47.360 over the course

00:28:48.040 of my life,

00:28:48.680 I've had different views

00:28:49.700 at different times.

00:28:51.140 There are times

00:28:51.920 when I was for legalization.

00:28:53.920 Personally,

00:28:54.460 I'm not for legalization now

00:28:56.100 so if there were a referendum

00:28:57.120 in Texas on it,

00:28:58.340 I'd vote against it.

00:28:59.260 I think there are some

00:29:00.020 significant negative consequences

00:29:01.700 that come from it

00:29:02.580 but I believe in federalism.

00:29:05.180 I believe we got 50 states

00:29:06.900 and reasonable people

00:29:08.740 can differ on this

00:29:09.740 and I think it's perfectly fine

00:29:11.880 to let the states operate

00:29:13.820 as laboratories of democracy

00:29:15.380 to see what happens

00:29:16.500 and so,

00:29:20.640 I mean,

00:29:20.860 listen,

00:29:21.220 when I was a teenager,

00:29:22.820 I smoked pot.

00:29:24.200 I wrote about that

00:29:25.160 in my book also.

00:29:25.940 You know,

00:29:26.080 when I was in high school,

00:29:26.860 early on in college,

00:29:28.000 I smoked pot a number of times

00:29:29.360 and it's not something

00:29:31.380 I hope my kids don't.

00:29:33.220 Thankfully,

00:29:33.720 they're 9 and 12.

00:29:34.520 I'm pretty sure

00:29:35.020 they haven't gone there yet

00:29:36.040 but,

00:29:36.940 you know,

00:29:37.780 it was,

00:29:38.620 I wasn't much older

00:29:39.480 than they were

00:29:40.060 when I first tried it

00:29:41.220 and it's not something

00:29:42.700 I don't think

00:29:43.120 it's good for kids to do

00:29:44.100 but I think we can leave it

00:29:46.360 to the states

00:29:46.940 and let the states sort out

00:29:48.300 if and when it should be allowed

00:29:50.380 or if not.

00:29:51.240 So what I'm hearing,

00:29:52.140 Senator,

00:29:52.440 is we're not going to get

00:29:53.560 one of these Elon Musk,

00:29:55.320 Joe Rogan moments

00:29:56.260 where you pull a joint

00:29:58.220 from off camera

00:29:59.120 and start puffing on screen.

00:30:00.700 We're not going to get that.

00:30:01.840 Well,

00:30:02.140 I will say this.

00:30:03.820 If you remember

00:30:04.880 when Bill Clinton

00:30:06.040 was running for office

00:30:07.100 and he said he smoked pot

00:30:08.520 but he didn't inhale.

00:30:09.740 Yeah.

00:30:10.420 I have to admit

00:30:11.760 I was,

00:30:13.600 even then I was cracking up

00:30:15.140 laughing,

00:30:16.020 thinking,

00:30:16.900 so you're saying

00:30:17.480 you didn't do it right?

00:30:18.540 Like,

00:30:18.720 if you're going to do it,

00:30:19.480 actually,

00:30:20.120 like,

00:30:20.820 I mean,

00:30:21.460 don't screw it up.

00:30:22.580 Like,

00:30:22.800 listen,

00:30:23.100 I still smoke cigars.

00:30:24.560 Now,

00:30:24.680 you don't inhale cigars.

00:30:26.200 That's actually not how you,

00:30:27.100 and you and I

00:30:27.640 have smoked cigars together.

00:30:28.740 That's right.

00:30:29.520 But,

00:30:29.900 and there one does not inhale.

00:30:32.160 But,

00:30:32.340 but no,

00:30:33.440 I will be not,

00:30:35.100 not be lighting up a spliff

00:30:36.580 in this particular podcast.

00:30:38.480 Fair enough.

00:30:39.240 You know,

00:30:39.640 you're,

00:30:40.140 you've reminded me

00:30:40.840 when you mentioned Bill Clinton,

00:30:42.440 those Democrats

00:30:43.160 wasting things 0.90

00:30:44.320 so fiscally irresponsible,

00:30:45.960 even when it comes down

00:30:47.600 to something such as that.

00:30:49.320 Much more to get to,

00:30:50.360 but alas,

00:30:50.880 we're out of time.

00:30:51.760 Senator,

00:30:52.160 we will have to pick it up again

00:30:53.580 next time.

00:30:54.560 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:30:55.440 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:31:04.040 This episode of Verdict

00:31:05.680 with Ted Cruz

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Verdict with Ted Cruz - May 29, 2020

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