Verdict with Ted Cruz - Thanksgiving Love Triangle

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.420 Guaranteed human.

00:00:03.960 As the descendant of four passengers on the Mayflower,

00:00:09.300 one pilgrim, three so-called strangers,

00:00:14.500 one was the man, the first man executed

00:00:17.160 for a capital offense in the New World.

00:00:19.340 Another was a mutineer,

00:00:21.420 and another was just a rapscallion all around.

00:00:24.340 I have a deep affection and sense of connection to Thanksgiving.

00:00:28.480 I know it's a holiday.

00:00:29.400 It's very unfashionable these days.

00:00:31.260 The left absolutely hates it, but I don't care.

00:00:33.980 We're throwing out politics.

00:00:35.560 We're throwing out the news this week,

00:00:36.860 and we're talking about Thanksgiving and America

00:00:39.700 and a very lovely poem.

00:00:41.400 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:00:41.980 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:00:49.120 Verdict with Ted Cruz is sponsored by American Hartford Gold.

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00:04:41.980 Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

00:04:43.620 Or should I say Happy Turkey Day?

00:04:45.160 I assume everyone is gathered with their families, even though that's against, I believe, Fauci's wishes here.

00:04:51.040 We just wanted to say hey and wish everyone a great holiday.

00:04:53.540 Take some great Thanksgiving-themed questions.

00:04:56.380 We did read a poem, by the way, in honor of not only this day, but of this episode.

00:05:02.000 It's called The Courtship of Miles Standish.

00:05:05.260 And Michael, whose idea was it to read this poem in the first place?

00:05:08.880 It actually was not my idea, though I did come around to the idea.

00:05:12.580 That would be our producer, Jonathan Hay.

00:05:15.560 I read this poem, and I really love it.

00:05:17.560 You know, the Pilgrims get a really bad rap now,

00:05:19.840 and there's so much misinformation about the relationship between the Pilgrims and the Native Americans.

00:05:25.480 It's oversimplified as the Pilgrims were meanies and the Native Americans were the poor, innocent, you know, victims. 0.99

00:05:31.860 And it just actually does a disservice both to the Pilgrims and to the Native Americans.

00:05:36.100 These were all very serious people.

00:05:37.740 Some of them were very serious statesmen.

00:05:40.320 The Pilgrims formed wonderful alliances with certain Native Americans.

00:05:43.780 The Native Americans used the English to defeat other groups of Native Americans.

00:05:47.340 So the reality is much more interesting.

00:05:49.440 And this poem is terrific because it talks about all of that drama from Plymouth

00:05:53.660 and those early days after the Pilgrims landed.

00:05:56.360 But there's also a really saucy love story and love triangle in the middle, too.

00:06:00.580 And speaking of reality, I think it's all very clear to everyone that Michael has already had his eggnog for the day.

00:06:08.640 That's before every episode.

00:06:10.120 There's nothing wrong with that.

00:06:11.940 I actually think most podcasts and all political debates would be better

00:06:17.840 if substantially more liquor was consumed during their filming.

00:06:22.960 Listen, it's Thanksgiving. I'm not going to give you an argument there.

00:06:25.560 Of course. And there are all of these real misconceptions.

00:06:29.000 I don't know. Now we're being told by all of these various left-wing activist groups

00:06:35.080 that Thanksgiving is not a day to give thanks to God as it was in the 17th century

00:06:39.600 and as George Washington suggested and as Lincoln suggested.

00:06:43.000 But actually, it's a day to think about how terrible America is and how awful we all are

00:06:47.440 and just to feel really bad about ourselves.

00:06:49.480 And by golly, I refuse to do it.

00:06:51.900 Does anyone actually do that, Senator?

00:06:53.320 Do you think that there's anybody who does this?

00:06:55.200 Listen, the hard left has decided Thanksgiving is evil.

00:06:58.640 I think Thanksgiving is wonderful.

00:07:01.620 It is one of my favorite holidays.

00:07:03.360 Christmas is my favorite, but Thanksgiving is up there.

00:07:06.860 And what's great about it is being with family, is being, you know, being with people you love

00:07:11.940 and taking time.

00:07:14.200 And listen, as a dad, I try my girls are like,

00:07:16.940 oh, dad, we don't want to talk about what to be thankful for.

00:07:19.520 But it's, you know, to take time to reflect.

00:07:22.400 But listen, you know, in the last week, we had a very good friend whose son was killed.

00:07:29.480 I mean, that reminds you of just all the things you have to be thankful for that you don't know

00:07:37.760 that they'll be there tomorrow or next week or next year.

00:07:40.540 And we're praying for and supporting our friend and the tragedy that happened.

00:07:45.240 But the process of saying, wow, you know, to be an American, to live in this country,

00:07:54.820 to have the freedoms we have, that's worth understanding, reflecting, learning about,

00:08:01.880 knowing about, and the assault on Thanksgiving is based on an ideological assault on the freedoms

00:08:12.800 that are protected in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

00:08:15.740 It's based on the attacking the idea of who and what America is.

00:08:20.800 And I got to say that if there's one thing I believe with every ounce of my soul,

00:08:32.660 it is that this nation is the greatest nation the world has ever seen.

00:08:37.560 And it was formed on a promise.

00:08:41.760 It was formed on an ideal that was good and noble.

00:08:44.600 That doesn't mean we didn't have our blemishes, but it has been a journey towards justice.

00:08:48.960 And that is a journey to be grateful for.

00:08:52.320 Something I loved about the poem is it puts this into a narrative

00:08:55.480 and you actually see the characters who were there in the very earliest days.

00:08:58.500 So I have to ask, what did you both think of the poem, Senator?

00:09:02.720 So look, I read the poem.

00:09:04.420 I got to say my reaction to it is if we're doing this poem,

00:09:09.400 I'm just going to use this as an opportunity to make fun of Yale.

00:09:14.480 Senator, one of the great games that we played freshman year,

00:09:17.760 of course, at a place like Yale, where it's like one of the waspiest institutions in America,

00:09:23.500 is everyone tried to figure out who their ancestors were on the Mayflower.

00:09:27.560 And actually, the protagonist of this poem, John Alden, was the ancestor of one of my roommates.

00:09:34.020 And it's very, it made dating very awkward, too.

00:09:36.980 Because, you know, you're going to end up dating your 12th cousin.

00:09:40.460 It's going to be very awkward. 0.98

00:09:42.300 Michael, can I just say that that is frigging nuts. 0.91

00:09:45.220 Like, that's bizarre. 0.91

00:09:47.920 To the best of my knowledge, I don't know anyone from the Mayflower.

00:09:52.940 But wait, actually, the opener of this segment, you said something that had me really puzzled.

00:09:57.960 In that you said four people on the Mayflower, like, came together and had a baby.

00:10:04.140 Like, how did that happen?

00:10:06.240 I know.

00:10:07.280 My biology, it's been a while since I took it.

00:10:09.340 But, you know, it takes two to tango.

00:10:11.140 It takes four to, like, do what?

00:10:14.080 No, they were very ahead of their time.

00:10:16.260 Because, obviously, in 2021, four is actually a small sort of romantic arrangement.

00:10:21.100 But back in those days, you know, they were a little more monogamous and had more clearly defined gender roles.

00:10:25.920 But one of the issues for the passengers on the Mayflower is that there weren't very many of them to begin with.

00:10:32.040 And then half of them died in the first winter.

00:10:34.400 So there – and actually, as the poem talks about, there weren't all that many eligible women.

00:10:39.320 And so they ended up really sort of shacking up together.

00:10:42.880 And then their children would intermarry. 0.75

00:10:44.460 And the families all remained together for a long time.

00:10:46.620 So if you are descended from one person who was on the Mayflower, there's a good chance that you were descended from multiple of them.

00:10:53.720 And another thing people don't really remember about the Mayflower is that, yes, there were these pious pilgrims who were extremely rigid in their religion.

00:11:02.940 But then there were just a bunch of people along for the ride.

00:11:05.760 They were called the strangers.

00:11:07.060 And they just wanted – they weren't doing that well in England.

00:11:09.460 They wanted a fresh start in America. 0.91

00:11:11.280 And they were – some of them downright degenerates.

00:11:14.680 And I'm sort of sorry to say three out of the four of my guys, they sort of fell into the latter category.

00:11:22.320 So, Michael, the poem opens,

00:11:25.020 Just in the gray of the dawn, as the mists uprose from the meadows, there was a stir and a sound in the slumbering village of Plymouth,

00:11:34.740 clanging and clicking of arms and the order imperative, forward.

00:11:38.720 Now, for those of us not schooled in Yale literary analysis, what does that mean?

00:11:48.040 You know, the image that is being presented to you here – and I'll try to put on my deepest, you know, most serious literary analyst hat here – for a poem that is not the most complex thing ever written – is you've got these very pious people.

00:12:05.180 They've got all of their religious activities and their church and they're so focused on God.

00:12:11.460 But they also have canons.

00:12:13.340 It's called a howitzer in the poem.

00:12:15.520 And they're also at war.

00:12:16.760 And they're at war with certain Indian tribes.

00:12:19.240 And they're at peace with other Indian tribes.

00:12:20.680 And they're in alliances with all of these sorts of groups.

00:12:23.680 And they're two guys that have the hots for one woman.

00:12:25.860 Is that right?

00:12:28.300 See, that's the kind of poetry that makes sense to the general American public, right?

00:12:33.240 That's what we need, that kind of summary of this highfalutin language.

00:12:36.640 Yes, and they – you know, that's the other funny thing about those pilgrims, as you get from both the poem but also the history of this era.

00:12:43.980 They were actually sort of a romantic people.

00:12:46.160 We just picture the funny hats and the buckle shoes.

00:12:49.220 But they actually could be a fairly romantic lot.

00:12:52.580 So am I understanding it right that this poem is sort of an older version of the song Jolene?

00:13:00.460 I'm begging of you.

00:13:02.120 Please don't take my gal.

00:13:03.740 Please, John Alden, don't take my gal.

00:13:05.720 This was an interesting thought I had while reading this poem, though.

00:13:08.540 And by the way, Michael, you might have read this because you were at Yale.

00:13:11.020 But I'd already read this because I was homeschooled.

00:13:12.940 So I don't know which nerd take there is going to – yeah, I don't know which nerd take there is going to come out on top.

00:13:19.380 But it's interesting because regardless of what year we're talking about, human nature always remains the same.

00:13:24.480 It's always static.

00:13:25.720 Because even back – this poem was supposed to be set in the 1600s, right?

00:13:28.480 Like, even back then, Miles Standish, who was supposed to be the captain, he was supposed to be the tough guy, right?

00:13:33.420 The alpha male was too scared to go ask his lady friend on a date.

00:13:38.420 He had to send his friend, John Alden, to try to win her heart.

00:13:41.220 And I thought, man, some things don't change.

00:13:43.920 There's a little bit of a Cyrano de Bergerac vibe here where the little, short, old captain – and if you've ever been to the Plymouth Museum, Miles Standish was like a pygmy. 0.95

00:13:55.120 I mean he was the big captain of the colony.

00:13:58.040 But he was really, really petite.

00:13:59.420 You can see his arms.

00:14:00.220 He was really small.

00:14:00.960 And so he asked the young, hot guy, John Alden, to go woo this woman, Priscilla, on his behalf.

00:14:07.340 So how did that work out for him?

00:14:08.640 I know.

00:14:09.340 It was not – you know, Miles Standish was courageous in battle, but he wasn't the smartest man in romance.

00:14:15.400 And as we know, all is fair in love and war.

00:14:18.560 And sweet Priscilla got the last laugh because she was the one who said, why don't you speak for yourself, John?

00:14:23.600 That's right.

00:14:24.540 That's right.

00:14:25.500 So you're saying it's generally a bad idea if you're interested in a woman to send another guy to say, hey, would you go put the moves on her? 0.93

00:14:32.640 You know, it's – I don't think it takes a Casanova to recognize that that's not the best idea.

00:14:43.120 But it's because this man, Miles Standish, his wife had died, but he was a one-track mind.

00:14:48.720 He was a warrior.

00:14:49.600 There's actually a really brutal kind of fight scene between him and one of the bad Indians in here. 1.00

00:14:55.120 And he was a one-track mind.

00:14:56.960 He was a fighter.

00:14:57.820 And John Alden was a lover, not a fighter.

00:14:59.860 And the lover won.

00:15:00.660 And the lover won.

00:15:01.800 And the lover won his battle here.

00:15:03.680 And, you know, there's another aspect to this of the kind of friendship between the Native Americans and the Englishmen.

00:15:11.600 The men who would go out and, you know, threaten these Indians and sometimes they would have to form alliances, they also saved the life of Massasoit, who was the chief of the Indians in the region and helped to build the Wampanoag Nation.

00:15:23.860 And they lived in peace actually with the Englishmen for a long time and they would help one another out.

00:15:28.580 And it was only when Massasoit's son, Prince Philip, or King Philip rather, Philip took an obviously Christian English name, Philip mistakenly believed that the Englishmen had killed his brother.

00:15:40.480 It actually almost certainly never happened.

00:15:42.600 But because of that miscommunication, he declared war on the Englishmen.

00:15:46.660 Some of the Indians sided with the English.

00:15:48.660 The English and the Indians made war on the other Indians and it broke down the peace.

00:15:52.280 But for decades after they landed, there actually was a really stable peace here.

00:15:57.040 And you're not going to hear that from the left-wing polemicist who says, you know, Englishmen bad, Indians good.

00:16:02.820 But it's a much more interesting history than you would get from the left-wing media.

00:16:08.060 Well, I will say the three of us were laughing a few minutes ago that the Women's March tweeted out this past week that they were apologizing, that they had said their average donation was $14.92, $14.92, and something about a date of such horrible impression to indigenous people that were embarrassed to have said that. 0.90

00:16:31.680 And it's like, good God, you can't satirize these clowns anymore.

00:16:38.060 Senator, would you be willing to accept a donation of $14.92? 0.92

00:16:42.160 I actually did retweet what they said and said, you know what?

00:16:45.760 You can go to my website, tedcruz.org.

00:16:48.980 I'll take $14.92.

00:16:51.460 I'll take $17.76.

00:16:53.540 I'll take $20.24.

00:16:54.860 You can enter any amount you want.

00:16:57.540 Interesting.

00:16:58.820 And we'll see if – and by the way, one lefty responded to that and said, how about $16.19?

00:17:06.280 I said, yeah, I'll take that too.

00:17:08.060 So, Liz, we need to get a female perspective here. 1.00

00:17:12.720 On the poem and on human nature more broadly, which man would you have gone with, the young, hot, romantic, or the older, grizzled, accomplished military man?

00:17:24.720 Okay, so this is actually a hard question, which I did think about while I was reading this poem because Miles Standish, obviously, it's not really recommending himself when he doesn't want to plead his own case here, when he won't even tell the sweet Priscilla that he loves her.

00:17:39.880 John Alden, however, I don't know that he was that big of a treat either, though, because he was so afraid of offending his friend that he wouldn't marry Priscilla until he thought his friend was dead.

00:17:49.480 So I'm not exactly sure.

00:17:51.560 I think she followed her heart.

00:17:53.520 She married the right man here.

00:17:54.720 But I do have to say, as someone married to a military man, I do have a soft spot for those grizzled old, well, sailors in this case, but soldiers.

00:18:02.540 I really wouldn't knock John Alden for following the bro code and not infringing on Miles Standish's territory. 0.64

00:18:10.300 But, yes, it is a difficult decision.

00:18:12.040 Those pilgrims had plenty of difficult decisions, and yet we here, from the perspective of 2021, we don't give them any respect.

00:18:19.580 None at all.

00:18:20.100 She was the only available Puritan woman, according to historical fact, too, in this colony, which is interesting.

00:18:27.560 Do you guys want to jump into some of these questions?

00:18:29.320 I did ask the Verdict Plus community for some Thanksgiving-themed questions, and we've got some real good ones here, some real doozies.

00:18:35.540 Sure.

00:18:35.860 So if we want to jump into these, there's a couple serious ones, a couple not so serious.

00:18:40.620 Senator, let me start with you.

00:18:41.600 Paul wants to know, do you have any unique family Thanksgiving traditions?

00:18:45.540 You know, I don't know about unique.

00:18:47.040 I mean, we get together.

00:18:49.640 We do turkey.

00:18:50.820 We do stuffing.

00:18:51.500 My mom does the stuffing, which is an old family recipe, and it's one of my favorite things.

00:18:56.400 We do cranberry sauce.

00:18:58.400 We'll do sweet potatoes, typically with marshmallows melted on top.

00:19:03.900 We'll do some salad.

00:19:05.440 We'll do some green beans, often with shaved almonds on the green beans.

00:19:09.440 We will do – we'll usually do black beans and rice because we do it – my cousin BB's and so side of the Cuban side of the family will do some black beans and rice just because Cubans aren't capable of eating anything without having black beans and rice. 0.92

00:19:22.880 And then we will – by the way, I still get to – so as a kid growing up, I always got the drumstick.

00:19:30.540 I'm a dark meat guy much more than – I don't like white meat in chicken or turkey.

00:19:35.780 I like dark meat.

00:19:36.440 I like it's much more tender and moist.

00:19:38.300 I'm not sure, Senator, how that is politically incorrect.

00:19:41.380 I'm not sure exactly how that will offend woke people, but I'm sure there's something there.

00:19:45.200 I'm sure somehow that was a microaggression.

00:19:47.160 Well, I will say in college, when I was a college debater, at one point there was a humorous debate round that in order to address overpopulation and hunger, we should encourage more cannibalism, which some college kids promoted.

00:20:00.960 And I think one of the opposition arguments to that is, no, no, that might – you might see racism if people preferred white meat or dark meat, one or the other.

00:20:10.080 That would be terrible.

00:20:11.760 So I'm going to get in trouble for repeating that joke that wasn't even made by me 25-plus years ago.

00:20:19.140 Well, that sounds like the cancel culture to me.

00:20:21.240 It does.

00:20:22.600 So probably the most unique – so my dad, every Thanksgiving, will make a flan or a couple of flans, and my father's flan is – it is unlike probably anyone you ever had in that it's tall.

00:20:38.680 It's about six inches tall, and the outside of the pot, it cakes the outside of it in melted sugar that's this deep, rich caramel,

00:20:49.400 and he has lots of condensed milk in it and a ton of vanilla in it and sugar in it.

00:20:54.040 And what I love about my dad's flan is the bottom inch of it is shredded coconut, and it's really – it's very rich.

00:21:02.340 Sadly, neither Heidi nor the girls are particularly into the flan, but the sort of Cuban – the Cuban side of the family, we enjoy my dad's flans,

00:21:13.180 and the girls and Heidi, they go for, like, the pecan pie or the apple pie or something else besides that.

00:21:19.980 And then what we always do is play a lot of dominoes.

00:21:22.660 So dominoes are big at our Thanksgivings and competitive.

00:21:27.220 We have a little tradition that if one person doesn't like a particular dish, we don't try to convince them to like it

00:21:32.780 because it just means it's more for us if the fewer people are eating – fewer people are eating the good stuff.

00:21:37.860 So that's our family tradition.

00:21:40.180 Michael, Jackie wants to know, where does cranberry sauce rank in your Thanksgiving list?

00:21:45.500 Well, one has to specify between the cranberries that are done all homemade and whatever and the cranberries in the shape of the can.

00:21:53.620 The former are disgusting, and the latter is indispensable to a Thanksgiving table.

00:21:59.060 And it's not a sauce.

00:22:00.080 It's just a kind of strange jelly, and they made all of them in the 70s, and I don't think they've had to make any since.

00:22:06.300 So it's very important.

00:22:07.200 I never really eat it.

00:22:09.040 I don't put it really on anything at all.

00:22:11.160 I just want it to be sitting there in that gelatinous, American, mass-produced, vaguely, chemically, probably poisonous way. 0.95

00:22:22.420 And I take great pleasure from that, though I would very rarely put it in my mouth.

00:22:26.560 Right, and there's always the contrast, by the way, of this can-shaped, gelatinous blob in your grandmother's loveliest china for Thanksgiving.

00:22:34.160 So it's a staple of every American's Thanksgiving.

00:22:37.500 All right, Senator Cruz, this is from Real Truth Cactus, who asks,

00:22:41.160 I'm sure this is going to be a fun one, but do you have any way to manage tough political discussions at your family's table?

00:22:47.020 What advice would you give to families who are split politically?

00:22:50.040 It's not easy.

00:22:53.580 I don't have a great solution to that.

00:22:55.760 We have some real political divides in our family.

00:22:59.380 My mother and her younger sister, my Aunt Carol.

00:23:03.700 My Aunt Carol has since passed away, but my Aunt Carol was very politically liberal. 0.89

00:23:09.160 My mother is very conservative.

00:23:11.160 My Aunt Carol was an atheist.

00:23:12.500 My mom is a strong Christian.

00:23:15.560 And they were very close.

00:23:17.500 They were best friends as sisters.

00:23:18.920 And they had a rule that they didn't discuss religion or politics.

00:23:21.840 And it worked.

00:23:22.700 It worked for 70-plus years until my aunt passed away.

00:23:28.460 We have real political disagreements in the family, but we mostly don't get into them at Thanksgiving.

00:23:33.400 We don't have, you know, the Cubans and the conservatives are fairly loud and obnoxious, 1.00

00:23:39.780 and there are several in the family left of the center of the aisle that mostly just choose not to engage and go do something else.

00:23:49.420 They go have another serving of turkey or something.

00:23:54.500 One can also take great satisfaction. 0.99

00:23:56.660 You always hear about your crazy conservative uncle, 0.98

00:23:59.020 and it's been so wonderful since I've had nieces and nephews that I have become the crazy conservative uncle. 0.85

00:24:06.300 Very good for everyone to have their cards on the table.

00:24:08.580 And, yes, I agree, Senator.

00:24:10.940 The way to put up with the more gregarious, louder, vociferous members who tend to be on the right is with the saintly patients of our family members.

00:24:20.160 And feed them extra and give them extra food.

00:24:22.340 That's going to comb the wildest beasts here. 1.00

00:24:24.320 All right, anybody who wants to submit a question for next week's episode, go to VerdictWithTedCruise.com slash plus.

00:24:31.320 If you are a Verdict Plus subscriber, well, you have exclusive access to submit questions.

00:24:36.660 And we also do additional mailbag segments over there, additional segments, all kinds of access to Senator Cruz.

00:24:41.900 That's VerdictWithTedCruise.com slash plus to submit your questions for next week.

00:24:46.860 Michael?

00:24:47.320 Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.

00:24:48.800 Liz, happy Thanksgiving.

00:24:49.900 Senator, happy Thanksgiving.

00:24:51.320 If you love watching Verdict, if you love writing into the show, if you potentially love having us to your college campus, you've got to get the merch.

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00:25:06.720 That's right, VerdictWithTedCruise.com slash shop.

00:25:09.480 You can get all of the great merch.

00:25:11.620 Not a lot with my face.

00:25:13.340 Not a lot with Senator Cruz's face.

00:25:15.180 A lot of cactus.

00:25:17.140 Why the producers made that choice, I don't know, and I won't be offended by it.

00:25:20.900 But you can get your merch today.

00:25:22.400 Head on over to VerdictWithTedCruise.com slash shop.

00:25:26.540 All of you out there, happy Thanksgiving.

00:25:29.660 Once the holiday season is over, we are going to be back on the road.

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00:25:49.880 We will see you in person.

00:25:50.960 In the meantime, I'm Michael Knowles.

00:25:52.420 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

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Verdict with Ted Cruz - November 25, 2021

Thanksgiving Love Triangle

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