Verdict with Ted Cruz - August 05, 2022


The Cloakroom Preview： What if China Invades Taiwan？


Episode Stats

Length

26 minutes

Words per Minute

169.0305

Word Count

4,497

Sentence Count

256


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.
00:00:04.120 Hey guys, Liz Wheeler here.
00:00:06.400 In addition to this week's episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz,
00:00:09.100 which you heard earlier this week,
00:00:10.980 we wanted to bring you a bonus sneak preview
00:00:13.240 of The Cloaked Room,
00:00:14.520 a series I co-host with Senator Cruz each week
00:00:16.760 over on the Verdict Plus community on Locals.
00:00:19.540 Did you know we do so much more each week
00:00:21.660 than just bringing you the main Verdict episode?
00:00:24.060 Senator Cruz takes mailbag questions,
00:00:26.060 he posts memes,
00:00:26.960 he interacts with subscribers,
00:00:28.120 and more over on Verdict Plus.
00:00:30.560 In this preview of The Cloaked Room,
00:00:31.980 we're talking about Jon Stewart
00:00:33.440 calling Senator Cruz a mother effort.
00:00:36.020 And on the more intellectual side of things,
00:00:37.580 we're talking about how the United States
00:00:39.460 should respond in the event that China invades Taiwan.
00:00:43.060 If you like what you hear,
00:00:44.160 you can get more of Senator Cruz
00:00:45.320 and more of The Cloaked Room every week
00:00:47.220 over on Verdict Plus.
00:00:48.620 You can head over to verdictwithtedcruise.com slash plus,
00:00:52.160 and if you use my promo code,
00:00:53.660 which intuitively is Cloaked Room,
00:00:55.480 you can get one month free,
00:00:56.540 that's verdictwithtedcruise.com slash plus,
00:00:59.200 and promo code Cloaked Room
00:01:00.380 to check out all the episodes
00:01:01.860 of The Cloaked Room right now.
00:01:03.420 We'll see you over there.
00:01:04.380 In the meantime,
00:01:05.340 please enjoy this preview of The Cloaked Room.
00:01:07.320 Hey guys, welcome.
00:01:08.680 I'm Liz Wheeler.
00:01:09.480 This is The Cloaked Room on Verdict Plus.
00:01:11.200 We have a lot to talk about tonight.
00:01:13.080 There's so much happening with Taiwan this week.
00:01:14.980 But first, Senator Cruz,
00:01:16.380 we have big news,
00:01:17.200 a big announcement to make.
00:01:18.300 Baby Knowles number two has arrived.
00:01:20.540 Huge congratulations to Michael
00:01:21.960 and his wife and his entire family
00:01:23.660 on the arrival of their new baby boy.
00:01:26.140 Obviously, Michael is out this week
00:01:27.540 spending time with his family,
00:01:28.960 as he should be.
00:01:30.140 I'm so excited for him.
00:01:31.000 This is his second son.
00:01:32.320 Yeah, no, it's awesome.
00:01:33.460 He's got a second baby boy,
00:01:35.940 and they are celebrating and enjoying.
00:01:39.100 And, you know, when Michael comes back,
00:01:40.500 we'll do everything we can
00:01:41.420 to make him feel at home,
00:01:42.540 which means we'll do lots of crying
00:01:44.460 and drooling,
00:01:46.780 which frankly is a lot of what happens
00:01:48.240 in the Senate too.
00:01:49.060 So there's a consistency to it,
00:01:50.760 but it's great news,
00:01:51.940 and we're celebrating with Michael.
00:01:53.600 Yeah, Michael posted some pictures
00:01:54.960 publicly on Instagram
00:01:55.900 of a little guy and man,
00:01:57.020 is he a doll?
00:01:57.940 Michael's wife did a fabulous job.
00:01:59.760 Huge congratulations to them.
00:02:01.640 We're actually going to do
00:02:02.420 two Cloak Room episodes this week
00:02:04.060 in honor of Michael's new baby.
00:02:05.500 Also, because Michael is out this week,
00:02:07.560 it'll be an inside look
00:02:08.580 into what you and I, Senator Cruz,
00:02:10.080 do on the Cloak Room every week.
00:02:11.920 Today, we are going to talk about Taiwan,
00:02:13.580 but before that,
00:02:14.880 I want to talk with you about Jon Stewart.
00:02:16.660 You seem to make Jon Stewart pretty mad.
00:02:18.160 This week, he actually made a video
00:02:19.420 calling you a mother effer,
00:02:21.440 and he was standing in front of people
00:02:22.660 chanting,
00:02:23.620 when senators lie,
00:02:25.440 veterans die.
00:02:26.480 So, Senator Cruz,
00:02:27.040 maybe you can tell me today,
00:02:27.840 what exactly did you do
00:02:28.700 to piss off Jon Stewart?
00:02:30.920 Yeah, no,
00:02:31.520 this was a pretty surreal week
00:02:32.880 on that front.
00:02:34.220 Jon Stewart kind of lost his mind
00:02:35.700 and did an awful lot of demagoguing
00:02:39.960 and very little actually truth-telling.
00:02:42.920 So let's unpack this,
00:02:44.720 because what happened in the past week
00:02:46.460 was confusing,
00:02:47.660 and I got to say,
00:02:48.500 the corporate media did a horrible job
00:02:50.400 reporting on any of it.
00:02:52.080 The underlying bill
00:02:53.400 that the Senate was considering
00:02:55.020 is a bill called the PAC-DAC,
00:02:56.440 and what the PAC-DAC does
00:02:57.800 is it focused on
00:02:59.020 veterans' health care,
00:03:00.760 and in particular,
00:03:01.600 veterans who have gotten diseases
00:03:03.920 from burn pits,
00:03:05.540 these giant pits
00:03:06.540 that were very common
00:03:07.720 in both Iraq and Afghanistan,
00:03:10.160 where all sorts of toxic chemicals
00:03:12.700 and all sorts of garbage was burned,
00:03:15.980 just lit on fire,
00:03:17.480 and unfortunately,
00:03:18.340 it let off a lot of toxic fumes,
00:03:20.440 and now we've got veterans
00:03:21.760 who are coming back
00:03:22.540 with all sorts of health problems,
00:03:24.440 including cancers
00:03:25.920 and other diseases
00:03:27.440 that there's significant science
00:03:29.500 tracing back to inhaling
00:03:31.740 the toxic fumes
00:03:33.420 from these burn pits.
00:03:34.600 And I have long been an advocate
00:03:37.300 of providing health care
00:03:39.280 for those veterans
00:03:40.020 who were injured
00:03:41.140 from exposure to burn pits.
00:03:42.700 It's something I've advocated
00:03:44.260 for a long time,
00:03:45.120 and this bill in particular
00:03:46.320 is a bill that creates
00:03:48.820 $280 billion in new funding
00:03:51.920 for health care for our veterans
00:03:54.800 for exposure to burn pits,
00:03:57.300 and I emphatically support that bill.
00:04:00.260 This bill also has $400 billion
00:04:02.400 in existing funding
00:04:03.940 that's already in the funding stream
00:04:05.440 for health care for veterans,
00:04:07.180 so all told,
00:04:08.240 the total price tag of the bill
00:04:10.020 was $679 billion.
00:04:13.440 I supported that in June.
00:04:15.460 I voted for it.
00:04:16.940 I agreed with it,
00:04:18.480 and I think it's a good idea.
00:04:20.760 Now, after we voted on it in June,
00:04:25.300 we subsequently, last week,
00:04:27.500 were voting on what's called cloture,
00:04:29.440 which a vote on cloture
00:04:30.480 is a vote to cut off debate,
00:04:33.380 to disallow any amendments.
00:04:35.580 This was the second time
00:04:36.460 the bill had come up.
00:04:38.080 And the second time it came up,
00:04:40.660 Pat Toomey, my colleague from Pennsylvania,
00:04:43.580 raised a very specific concern
00:04:45.860 about one element that was in this bill,
00:04:48.160 which is an accounting gimmick
00:04:49.880 that the Democrats used
00:04:51.580 within this bill.
00:04:53.180 I mentioned that the bill
00:04:54.040 has two components,
00:04:55.100 $400 billion of pre-existing funding
00:04:57.100 for veterans,
00:04:58.260 $279 billion in new funding
00:05:00.220 for those exposed to burn pits.
00:05:02.000 Well, the $400 billion
00:05:03.960 in pre-existing funding
00:05:05.820 is currently what's called
00:05:08.340 discretionary funding.
00:05:09.740 And discretionary funding,
00:05:11.740 discretionary spending
00:05:12.760 is spending that has to be
00:05:14.720 reauthorized by each Congress.
00:05:16.460 And discretionary funding
00:05:18.680 is subject to an overall cap
00:05:21.840 in terms of how much
00:05:23.080 discretionary spending is allowed.
00:05:26.660 What the Democrats did with this bill
00:05:28.720 is they shifted that $400 billion
00:05:30.560 from discretionary spending
00:05:32.640 to mandatory spending.
00:05:34.920 Now, why does that matter?
00:05:36.120 Well, mandatory spending,
00:05:37.300 the way the federal budget works,
00:05:39.060 mandatory spending is on autopilot.
00:05:40.920 It goes automatically.
00:05:42.980 It doesn't have to be appropriated.
00:05:44.820 It doesn't have to be reauthorized.
00:05:46.460 It's mandatory.
00:05:47.680 And so it's just on autopilot.
00:05:50.100 Why does that matter?
00:05:52.020 Well, it doesn't matter
00:05:53.320 in terms of ensuring
00:05:54.960 that the money will be spent
00:05:56.200 because look,
00:05:56.780 Congress is going to spend money
00:05:58.120 for veterans health care.
00:05:59.360 There's no prospect
00:06:00.560 that Congress is going to fail
00:06:02.540 to provide the funding
00:06:04.140 for veterans health care.
00:06:06.460 The reason the Democrats
00:06:08.040 wanted to do that
00:06:08.980 is by shifting it
00:06:11.160 from discretionary to mandatory.
00:06:13.320 They, as a bookkeeping matter,
00:06:17.600 cut discretionary spending
00:06:19.280 by $400 billion.
00:06:20.620 The $400 billion they moved to mandatory,
00:06:22.640 suddenly it created a hole
00:06:24.280 on discretionary spending
00:06:26.220 where our total aggregate
00:06:27.600 discretionary spending
00:06:28.680 is $400 billion below the cap.
00:06:31.040 The reason they wanted to do so
00:06:34.020 is they want to spend
00:06:35.960 $400 billion more
00:06:37.640 in unrelated pork.
00:06:39.420 It has nothing to do with veterans,
00:06:40.860 it has nothing to do with this bill,
00:06:42.200 but the hole they just created
00:06:44.060 in discretionary spending,
00:06:45.480 it was their intention
00:06:47.160 to fill that hole
00:06:48.800 and to fill it with whatever pork projects
00:06:50.620 they wanted to spend.
00:06:52.480 And so Pat Toomey had an amendment,
00:06:54.180 a very simple amendment,
00:06:55.360 just to shift the spending
00:06:56.580 back to discretionary.
00:06:57.760 So to reverse the budget gimmick
00:07:00.620 that they had employed.
00:07:04.100 Last week when we voted on cloture,
00:07:06.620 Pat had spent the entire week
00:07:08.260 making the case
00:07:09.020 to the conference at lunch
00:07:10.220 that the only way
00:07:12.200 we could get a vote
00:07:13.100 and try to force them
00:07:14.640 to shift it back to discretionary
00:07:16.140 is if we stood together
00:07:18.580 and at least 41 of us
00:07:20.160 voted to deny cloture.
00:07:21.940 And if we did that,
00:07:23.240 if we blocked Schumer
00:07:24.380 from going ahead on the bill,
00:07:25.580 we would have the leverage
00:07:27.680 to force a vote on the amendment.
00:07:29.340 That happens a lot in the Senate.
00:07:30.500 That's how you get leverage
00:07:31.900 to get a vote
00:07:32.720 is you block cloture.
00:07:35.020 Well, we did that last week
00:07:36.680 and
00:07:38.000 Jon Stewart lost his mind
00:07:41.520 and the corporate media
00:07:43.700 lost their minds.
00:07:45.420 Jon Stewart proceeded
00:07:46.780 to go on this,
00:07:47.860 this profanity-laced tirade
00:07:50.420 blasting me,
00:07:52.600 blasting other Republicans
00:07:53.800 and basically his thesis
00:07:56.540 was that apparently
00:07:57.840 Republicans hate veterans.
00:07:59.240 We're just,
00:08:00.140 you know,
00:08:00.500 when you think about Republicans,
00:08:02.080 what is it that characterizes
00:08:03.300 Republicans in the mind
00:08:04.780 of a wild-eyed leftist demagogue?
00:08:07.780 It's that we don't like veterans.
00:08:09.480 Mind you,
00:08:10.000 that is
00:08:11.060 facially absurd.
00:08:13.880 But the problem was
00:08:15.380 Stewart
00:08:15.840 is not being
00:08:18.620 a
00:08:19.480 legitimate advocate.
00:08:20.980 He's not being an honest broker.
00:08:22.480 He's being a partisan hack
00:08:24.320 and he saw an opportunity
00:08:25.500 to use this
00:08:27.300 to scream
00:08:27.980 and curse
00:08:28.620 and attack
00:08:29.220 and try to deceive.
00:08:30.840 Look,
00:08:31.040 people who are not paying
00:08:31.840 much attention
00:08:32.580 but just hear Stewart
00:08:34.480 screaming Republicans
00:08:35.680 hate veterans,
00:08:36.480 some of them might be deceived
00:08:37.580 into believing that.
00:08:39.140 It was dishonest
00:08:40.180 when Stewart started.
00:08:41.260 It remains dishonest today.
00:08:43.180 And so what happened today
00:08:44.320 is we just,
00:08:45.000 we voted on Pat Toomey's amendment.
00:08:46.880 I voted for Pat Toomey's amendment.
00:08:49.000 It narrowly failed.
00:08:50.020 So unfortunately,
00:08:51.860 the budget gimmick
00:08:52.720 is still there.
00:08:53.420 And then we voted on the bill
00:08:54.440 and I voted for it.
00:08:55.980 We ended up having 86 senators
00:08:57.440 vote for it
00:08:58.460 because we support
00:08:59.320 the underlying
00:09:00.120 bill.
00:09:02.700 But it was an amazing
00:09:04.140 illustration
00:09:04.740 of how dishonest
00:09:05.800 the press is
00:09:06.400 because almost
00:09:07.000 none of the corporate media
00:09:08.580 actually covered
00:09:09.900 the substance
00:09:10.400 of what the dispute
00:09:11.020 was about.
00:09:12.000 So this is actually
00:09:13.000 interesting
00:09:13.460 because the truth
00:09:14.140 of the matter is,
00:09:15.020 you can correct me
00:09:15.780 if this is inaccurate,
00:09:16.800 but the truth
00:09:17.140 of the matter is
00:09:17.740 it was actually
00:09:18.480 the Democrats
00:09:19.560 who were temporarily,
00:09:21.120 I guess,
00:09:21.940 holding this money hostage
00:09:23.620 from veterans
00:09:24.520 to pay for their health care
00:09:25.440 because they wanted
00:09:26.380 an additional
00:09:27.240 $400 billion
00:09:28.300 to spend on things
00:09:29.300 unrelated to veterans
00:09:30.220 or health care,
00:09:30.920 just their own
00:09:31.520 political pet projects.
00:09:32.820 That's exactly right.
00:09:34.080 And so actually last week
00:09:35.960 when we were voting
00:09:36.480 on cloture,
00:09:37.160 we made very clear
00:09:37.940 to Schumer,
00:09:38.920 if you adopt
00:09:39.620 Toomey's amendment,
00:09:40.420 we'll approve this
00:09:41.140 instantaneously.
00:09:42.120 So we could have
00:09:42.700 passed this last week
00:09:43.740 and one of the things
00:09:44.880 Stewart and the rest
00:09:46.540 of the media were saying
00:09:47.180 is it's Republicans
00:09:47.960 who have delayed this
00:09:48.920 and veterans are dying.
00:09:49.980 Well, we could have
00:09:50.300 passed this last week,
00:09:51.280 but the Democrats
00:09:52.560 love their pork so much
00:09:53.780 they didn't want
00:09:54.240 to pass it last week.
00:09:55.360 And by the way,
00:09:55.920 one of the reasons
00:09:56.600 the media went really crazy
00:09:59.300 is I was skeptical
00:10:01.920 we'd get 41 Republicans
00:10:03.340 to stand together
00:10:04.240 to try to stop
00:10:05.500 yet another $400 billion
00:10:07.880 in pork spending
00:10:09.120 unrelated to veterans.
00:10:10.020 And we did miraculously
00:10:12.240 hold Republicans together.
00:10:14.520 And so when that happened,
00:10:17.060 Steve Daines,
00:10:17.760 Republican from Montana,
00:10:19.060 he and I did a fist bump
00:10:20.140 on the Senate floor,
00:10:21.640 which caused Stewart's
00:10:24.760 pretty little head
00:10:25.400 to explode
00:10:26.040 and caused all of the leftists
00:10:28.380 to say, you know,
00:10:29.820 Twitter is covered with,
00:10:31.100 you know,
00:10:31.760 Cruz is fist bumping
00:10:33.460 veterans dying.
00:10:35.220 Yeah, that's it, Johnny boy.
00:10:36.440 That's exactly what it was about.
00:10:38.040 Not Cruz is fist bumping
00:10:40.040 trying to stop Democrats
00:10:41.340 from bankrupting the country
00:10:43.020 with $400 billion
00:10:43.980 in unrelated pork
00:10:45.080 that by the way
00:10:45.960 is fueling inflation
00:10:46.900 that is making people's lives
00:10:48.160 really, really suck,
00:10:49.360 including veterans lives
00:10:50.700 who are having to pay
00:10:51.540 seven, $8 per gallon for gas.
00:10:55.300 It is amazing
00:10:57.020 the deception
00:10:58.640 that the media played in this.
00:11:00.460 And so I'll tell you tonight
00:11:01.420 when I voted yes on the bill
00:11:03.400 and Steve Daines
00:11:04.040 voted yes on the bill,
00:11:05.240 we did another fist bump
00:11:06.400 in the exact same spot.
00:11:07.820 We purposely did it again
00:11:09.740 to illustrate the point.
00:11:11.820 But I'll tell you something else
00:11:14.140 I said at lunch.
00:11:14.860 So we were discussing
00:11:15.600 at lunch today
00:11:16.220 before the vote
00:11:16.960 what the next steps were.
00:11:19.580 And we were able to get a vote
00:11:20.620 on Toomey's amendment
00:11:21.360 because we denied cloture last week.
00:11:24.220 But I said, listen,
00:11:25.700 it looks like
00:11:27.080 we're going to lose the vote
00:11:28.640 on Toomey's vote amendment.
00:11:30.100 We knew that by lunchtime
00:11:31.540 that it looked like
00:11:32.180 the way the whip was coming out.
00:11:33.320 We were not going to win the vote.
00:11:35.040 And I said,
00:11:36.160 this was still a good
00:11:37.660 and worthwhile fight to have.
00:11:39.540 Why?
00:11:40.960 Because we've now increased
00:11:42.640 the political cost
00:11:44.180 of the Democrats
00:11:46.040 trying to use
00:11:46.860 that political gimmick
00:11:47.880 to fill that $400 billion hole.
00:11:50.800 That by focusing the fight on it,
00:11:52.960 the Republican conference
00:11:53.940 is now much more focused
00:11:55.140 on that $400 billion
00:11:56.300 fake hole
00:11:57.800 that they made
00:11:58.560 just by moving the money
00:11:59.580 to the other side of the ledger,
00:12:00.720 the mandatory side.
00:12:02.380 And maybe we've made it radioactive
00:12:04.880 for the Democrats
00:12:05.700 to come back in another bill
00:12:07.100 and add that pork spending
00:12:08.680 of that $400 billion
00:12:09.700 in the hole.
00:12:11.040 And what I also urge
00:12:12.340 the conference
00:12:12.880 is when Republicans
00:12:15.060 take over,
00:12:16.200 hopefully in January,
00:12:17.760 we ought to fill the hole.
00:12:19.560 In other words,
00:12:20.000 we ought to lower the cap
00:12:21.120 to basically eliminate
00:12:22.860 this budget gimmick.
00:12:24.380 And because we had this fight,
00:12:27.260 I don't know if we'll succeed
00:12:28.980 in lowering the cap
00:12:29.860 to erase this budget gimmick,
00:12:31.600 but our chances of doing so
00:12:33.360 are much higher
00:12:34.840 because we fought this fight
00:12:37.400 and endured
00:12:39.040 the dishonest demagoguery
00:12:41.520 of the left
00:12:43.080 over the weekend.
00:12:44.880 And by the way,
00:12:46.080 I looked on Twitter right now
00:12:47.540 to see if the mainstream media
00:12:48.960 was giving equal coverage
00:12:50.300 to your fist bump,
00:12:51.360 fist bumping
00:12:52.060 for this,
00:12:53.320 this healthcare for veterans.
00:12:54.620 And no,
00:12:55.160 it's not trending anywhere.
00:12:56.400 It's nowhere.
00:12:57.640 So that shows you
00:12:58.220 exactly what you need to know.
00:12:59.740 But speaking,
00:13:00.940 you know what is trending
00:13:01.640 on Twitter right now,
00:13:02.400 actually,
00:13:02.820 is Nancy Pelosi's visit
00:13:04.000 to Taiwan.
00:13:05.460 And I want to ask you
00:13:06.480 about this because
00:13:07.100 in a previous episode
00:13:08.200 of Verdict,
00:13:08.780 you gave the chances
00:13:09.820 of China invading Taiwan
00:13:11.680 to be 50-50.
00:13:13.700 Do you,
00:13:14.380 would you change
00:13:15.120 your calculation
00:13:15.920 given Nancy Pelosi's visit
00:13:18.680 and China's threat?
00:13:20.940 Probably an empty threat,
00:13:21.980 in my opinion.
00:13:22.740 Their empty threat
00:13:23.240 of shooting down her plane
00:13:24.140 or responding with their army.
00:13:25.340 Do you think
00:13:25.920 that they'll use that
00:13:26.700 as justification
00:13:27.280 to invade Taiwan?
00:13:28.380 Is there a higher likelihood?
00:13:30.300 So it remains
00:13:31.340 a very real risk.
00:13:34.580 You know,
00:13:35.340 rewind over a year ago
00:13:36.960 when Biden had
00:13:37.980 his disastrous
00:13:39.300 surrender and withdrawal
00:13:40.700 in Afghanistan.
00:13:43.580 The weakness
00:13:44.580 and appeasement
00:13:45.460 of this administration
00:13:46.740 encouraged every one
00:13:47.760 of our enemies.
00:13:48.440 I said at the time,
00:13:49.300 as you'll recall,
00:13:50.660 the chances of Russia
00:13:51.760 invading Ukraine
00:13:52.640 have risen tenfold.
00:13:53.720 The chances of China
00:13:55.380 invading Taiwan
00:13:56.140 have risen tenfold.
00:13:59.160 Our enemies
00:14:00.180 are emboldened
00:14:01.080 because they see
00:14:01.860 the commander-in-chief
00:14:03.060 as weak and ineffective.
00:14:04.960 Now,
00:14:05.340 let's get to this week
00:14:06.420 and Nancy Pelosi.
00:14:08.620 It is astonishing
00:14:10.120 how badly
00:14:11.700 the Biden administration
00:14:12.820 has screwed this up.
00:14:14.040 It's breathtaking.
00:14:15.020 I'm hard-pressed
00:14:16.140 to think of
00:14:17.580 an analog
00:14:18.460 in recent times.
00:14:20.840 So Pelosi announced
00:14:21.800 she was going to go to Taiwan.
00:14:22.800 We actually had
00:14:24.420 a classified briefing
00:14:25.400 yesterday
00:14:25.980 with senior officials
00:14:27.480 from state and DOD
00:14:28.860 talking about this
00:14:31.020 and I chewed them out.
00:14:32.540 I mean,
00:14:32.760 I lit into them.
00:14:33.900 I can't tell you
00:14:34.420 what they said,
00:14:35.020 but I can tell you
00:14:35.440 what I said
00:14:35.920 because what I said
00:14:36.540 isn't classified.
00:14:37.860 And I chewed them out
00:14:39.200 saying,
00:14:40.680 it is hard to overstate
00:14:42.740 how badly
00:14:43.540 you guys have screwed
00:14:44.500 this up.
00:14:45.340 Number one,
00:14:46.760 when Pelosi said
00:14:48.460 she was going to Taiwan,
00:14:49.680 the Biden administration
00:14:52.260 leaked
00:14:53.000 that the Department
00:14:54.800 of Defense
00:14:55.300 opposed her going.
00:14:57.140 We don't know
00:14:57.780 who leaked it.
00:14:58.460 We don't know
00:14:58.760 if it was DOD.
00:14:59.720 We don't know
00:15:00.180 if it was state
00:15:00.940 or if it was the White House.
00:15:02.180 My guess is
00:15:02.820 it was the White House.
00:15:04.040 I think it was probably
00:15:04.900 the Biden National Security
00:15:08.060 Council that did so.
00:15:10.700 But I don't know that.
00:15:11.640 That's inference.
00:15:12.600 I have no,
00:15:13.280 somebody from the administration
00:15:14.520 leaked it.
00:15:15.160 That was spectacularly stupid.
00:15:22.740 And one of the things
00:15:23.800 I pressed the administration on
00:15:25.180 is do you think
00:15:25.660 it was beneficial
00:15:26.280 or harmful
00:15:27.000 to leak
00:15:28.980 that the Department
00:15:29.640 of Defense
00:15:30.100 is telling the Speaker
00:15:30.900 of the House,
00:15:31.820 oh, please,
00:15:32.820 please, please
00:15:33.620 don't go to Taiwan
00:15:34.920 and make the Chinese
00:15:36.580 Communist angry.
00:15:37.520 Of course it was harmful
00:15:38.520 because it shows
00:15:39.900 this White House
00:15:40.640 is so weak
00:15:41.320 and terrified
00:15:41.960 that they're scared.
00:15:44.040 but then it got,
00:15:45.000 and you mentioned
00:15:45.480 in your question,
00:15:46.200 it got truly
00:15:48.300 Monty Python-esque
00:15:50.160 level absurd
00:15:52.560 because a Chinese
00:15:55.040 government-run newspaper
00:15:56.600 publicly called
00:15:59.020 on the Chinese military
00:16:00.240 to shoot down
00:16:01.300 Nancy Pelosi's plane
00:16:02.980 when she tried to land.
00:16:06.560 And then at the
00:16:07.160 White House press conference,
00:16:09.500 the White House press secretary
00:16:10.720 was asked,
00:16:11.640 what do you make?
00:16:12.680 What is the administration
00:16:13.800 position
00:16:14.620 on this Chinese
00:16:17.520 government-run newspaper
00:16:18.980 calling for Chinese missiles
00:16:20.740 to shoot down
00:16:21.760 Nancy Pelosi's plane?
00:16:23.820 And the White House press secretary
00:16:25.200 said,
00:16:25.460 oh, we have no position
00:16:26.240 on that.
00:16:27.360 Which I got to admit,
00:16:28.880 Liz,
00:16:29.060 is frigging nuts.
00:16:30.240 Listen,
00:16:30.860 I'm no fan
00:16:31.560 of Nancy Pelosi,
00:16:32.960 but the only answer
00:16:35.000 to that question
00:16:35.960 should be
00:16:36.720 anyone attacking
00:16:39.680 and trying to murder
00:16:40.820 the speaker
00:16:42.440 of the House
00:16:43.080 of the United States
00:16:43.940 of America.
00:16:44.360 If they shot down
00:16:45.200 her plane,
00:16:45.840 it would be an act
00:16:46.800 of war
00:16:47.300 and the result
00:16:48.860 would be overwhelming
00:16:50.540 and catastrophic.
00:16:51.460 That is the only answer
00:16:52.880 you can give,
00:16:53.840 whether you like Pelosi
00:16:54.840 or not.
00:16:56.860 And the level
00:16:57.940 of weakness
00:16:58.580 that you asked
00:17:00.620 the Biden White House,
00:17:01.700 what's your position
00:17:02.480 on China murdering
00:17:03.620 the speaker of the House
00:17:04.480 of the United States?
00:17:05.480 Oh, we don't have a view.
00:17:06.620 You know,
00:17:06.920 what's a little murder
00:17:07.960 of senior government officials
00:17:09.400 between friends?
00:17:10.480 Like,
00:17:11.280 holy crap,
00:17:13.000 that statement
00:17:14.140 increased the chances
00:17:16.160 of China invading Taiwan
00:17:17.640 dramatically
00:17:18.380 because they're taking
00:17:19.840 a measure of
00:17:20.960 does Joe Biden
00:17:22.020 have the backbone
00:17:22.860 to do anything?
00:17:25.100 And if they're not
00:17:25.960 even willing to say,
00:17:26.980 please don't shoot down
00:17:27.780 our speaker of the House,
00:17:28.780 what are the chances
00:17:29.380 they're going to do
00:17:29.860 much of anything else?
00:17:31.500 It's so unreal
00:17:32.740 to watch this unfolding.
00:17:34.460 You and I did an episode
00:17:36.000 a while back
00:17:37.040 on the cloakroom
00:17:38.320 talking about
00:17:39.160 your foreign policy philosophy
00:17:40.880 and you described it as
00:17:42.480 on the spectrum
00:17:43.940 of isolationists
00:17:45.600 to interventionists.
00:17:46.740 You said it's not
00:17:47.400 somewhere in between
00:17:48.160 on the spectrum.
00:17:48.780 It's a third point
00:17:49.660 on a triangle
00:17:50.460 where you analyze
00:17:52.600 what the interests
00:17:53.920 of the United States are
00:17:55.600 before getting involved
00:17:57.160 in a foreign conflict
00:17:58.220 to make sure
00:17:58.820 that it's particularly
00:18:00.140 within our interests
00:18:01.220 and not just
00:18:01.880 something that
00:18:03.000 we're interested
00:18:04.400 in when we get involved
00:18:05.900 and especially
00:18:06.340 our military getting involved.
00:18:07.480 So taking that
00:18:08.320 and by the way,
00:18:08.980 anybody watching this
00:18:10.040 who hasn't watched
00:18:10.700 that episode,
00:18:11.080 I highly recommend
00:18:11.680 you go back
00:18:12.240 and look at it.
00:18:13.500 Very interesting.
00:18:15.100 One of our best,
00:18:16.000 if I do say so,
00:18:17.080 myself,
00:18:17.680 but how would you apply
00:18:18.980 that foreign policy philosophy
00:18:20.700 to a scenario
00:18:22.960 where China invades Taiwan?
00:18:24.860 Should the United States
00:18:25.620 get involved?
00:18:26.460 Should we not?
00:18:27.760 And if so,
00:18:28.480 how much?
00:18:29.240 In what way?
00:18:30.600 What are our interests?
00:18:31.300 So it's a highly
00:18:31.880 complicated question.
00:18:34.360 And should we get involved?
00:18:37.820 Absolutely, yes.
00:18:38.700 And actually,
00:18:39.120 the Taiwan Assistance Act
00:18:40.260 obligates us to get involved.
00:18:42.080 Now, the act does not specify
00:18:43.480 what get involved means.
00:18:45.220 So there's a whole range
00:18:46.240 of involvement.
00:18:48.180 Anytime you're dealing
00:18:49.560 with a superpower
00:18:50.440 that is a threat
00:18:52.620 on the order
00:18:53.300 of communist China
00:18:54.260 or on the order
00:18:55.040 during the Cold War
00:18:55.920 of the Soviet Union,
00:18:57.060 your best hope
00:19:00.060 is to deter aggression
00:19:01.540 and you deter aggression
00:19:03.560 from a position of strength
00:19:04.780 and not a position
00:19:05.660 of weakness.
00:19:06.720 So during the Cold War,
00:19:08.600 nobody in their right mind
00:19:09.640 wanted to get
00:19:10.120 into a shooting war
00:19:10.720 with the Soviet Union.
00:19:11.700 Ronald Reagan
00:19:12.200 did not want to get
00:19:12.960 into a shooting war
00:19:13.800 with the Soviet Union,
00:19:15.220 but he believed
00:19:16.280 in peace through strength
00:19:17.420 that if we build up
00:19:18.180 our military
00:19:18.720 and we create
00:19:19.180 enough deterrence
00:19:20.020 that we can defeat them
00:19:21.700 without having
00:19:22.500 to go to war with them.
00:19:23.800 Likewise,
00:19:24.840 look,
00:19:25.100 only a lunatic
00:19:26.140 wants to go to war
00:19:27.640 with communist China.
00:19:29.580 That a full-out war
00:19:31.100 with communist China
00:19:32.040 would result
00:19:32.660 in massive casualties
00:19:33.920 on both sides.
00:19:35.520 No one in the right mind
00:19:36.400 wants to see that happen.
00:19:38.580 Taiwan poses
00:19:43.680 an enormous threat
00:19:45.200 to the Chinese government
00:19:46.320 for a number of reasons.
00:19:48.120 One,
00:19:49.980 because it demonstrates
00:19:51.280 that Chinese people
00:19:54.940 can live
00:19:55.540 in freedom
00:19:56.180 and prosperity
00:19:57.020 and with human rights.
00:19:59.780 Look,
00:20:00.120 the people in Taiwan
00:20:01.020 are ethnically Chinese.
00:20:02.400 There's no difference
00:20:03.360 in the nationality,
00:20:05.720 the ethnicity,
00:20:06.500 the history
00:20:06.960 of the people on Taiwan
00:20:07.980 from the people
00:20:08.580 in mainland China.
00:20:09.900 But what terrifies Xi
00:20:12.540 and the Communist Party
00:20:13.620 is the 1.3 billion Chinese
00:20:16.340 living under communist tyranny
00:20:18.140 and oppression
00:20:19.240 look across the Taiwan Strait
00:20:21.580 and say,
00:20:21.920 hey, wait a second,
00:20:22.520 they're Chinese just like us,
00:20:23.760 but they are free,
00:20:25.940 they have elections,
00:20:26.900 they have free speech,
00:20:28.180 they have prosperity,
00:20:29.960 their standard of living
00:20:30.900 is much, much better
00:20:31.780 than ours.
00:20:32.760 Wait a second,
00:20:33.560 that system,
00:20:34.440 that free enterprise system
00:20:35.740 is a lot better
00:20:37.480 than our crappy
00:20:38.120 communist system.
00:20:39.660 That's why the Chinese government
00:20:41.440 is so terrified of Taiwan
00:20:42.800 because it emboldens
00:20:44.520 their system.
00:20:45.120 Now, for the same reason,
00:20:48.880 we should speak out vigorously
00:20:51.080 in support of Taiwan,
00:20:53.420 vigorously in support of Hong Kong
00:20:54.880 because they both have demonstrated
00:20:56.380 the power of freedom
00:20:57.520 and free enterprise.
00:20:59.080 And what's in our interest
00:21:00.020 is seeing the Chinese
00:21:01.040 communist government fall,
00:21:03.160 just like it was in our interest
00:21:04.600 to see the Soviet Union fall.
00:21:06.920 And so what I think
00:21:07.900 we should be doing
00:21:08.780 is number one,
00:21:09.920 vigorously speaking out for Taiwan,
00:21:11.760 that I think using the bully pulpit
00:21:13.540 of America is really powerful
00:21:15.560 and it undermines
00:21:16.500 totalitarian regimes.
00:21:18.660 But number two,
00:21:21.140 providing weaponry,
00:21:24.200 selling weaponry to Taiwan.
00:21:25.640 Look, Taiwan is an incredibly
00:21:26.980 successful economy.
00:21:28.020 They can afford to buy our weapons.
00:21:29.280 We're not giving them stuff.
00:21:30.260 It's not a case of welfare.
00:21:32.820 They're incredibly successful.
00:21:34.840 But we should be selling them
00:21:36.700 military weaponry,
00:21:38.940 sophisticated military weaponry
00:21:40.820 that they can use
00:21:42.000 to defend Taiwan
00:21:42.980 against China
00:21:43.820 and to change
00:21:44.840 that cost-benefit analysis.
00:21:46.400 So the Chinese generals
00:21:47.280 are saying,
00:21:48.120 well, wait a second.
00:21:49.340 If we launch
00:21:50.320 an amphibious attack,
00:21:51.720 these guys have
00:21:53.060 sophisticated enough
00:21:54.320 weapons
00:21:56.400 that they can drive up
00:21:57.860 the cost a lot.
00:21:58.820 In particular,
00:22:00.260 what you want
00:22:01.060 is asymmetric
00:22:02.580 weaponry,
00:22:04.200 the ability to have
00:22:05.220 not just
00:22:05.820 a bunch of tanks
00:22:07.620 that are sitting stationary
00:22:08.640 and are really easy
00:22:09.420 to take out,
00:22:10.360 but you want things
00:22:11.560 that are mobile,
00:22:12.460 you want things
00:22:13.240 that some of the things
00:22:14.880 we're seeing in Ukraine
00:22:15.780 like javelins and stingers
00:22:17.340 and mines that you can put
00:22:19.240 in the Taiwan Strait,
00:22:20.260 all of which make
00:22:21.080 an amphibious assault
00:22:22.020 much more difficult.
00:22:23.180 I'll mention,
00:22:23.920 by the way,
00:22:24.260 another reason why
00:22:25.300 a Chinese invasion
00:22:27.300 of Taiwan
00:22:27.860 would be enormously harmful
00:22:29.880 to the United States
00:22:30.820 is a very large percentage
00:22:33.900 of advanced semiconductors
00:22:35.240 that are made worldwide
00:22:36.420 are made in Taiwan.
00:22:37.420 America produces
00:22:39.200 very little of it.
00:22:40.140 Hopefully we'll see more
00:22:41.180 and the Senate
00:22:42.600 just passed a big bill
00:22:43.760 that has tax incentives
00:22:45.320 to create
00:22:45.900 manufactured semiconductors
00:22:48.120 here.
00:22:48.520 I support the tax incentives.
00:22:50.120 It also had
00:22:51.040 corporate welfare
00:22:52.140 for big multinationals.
00:22:53.840 I don't support that,
00:22:54.860 so I voted against
00:22:55.600 the overall bill,
00:22:56.960 but
00:22:58.060 if China invaded Taiwan
00:23:01.080 tomorrow,
00:23:02.020 it would have a stranglehold
00:23:03.920 on advanced semiconductors
00:23:05.460 on a global scale.
00:23:07.720 Our military
00:23:08.540 is dependent
00:23:09.180 on those semiconductors.
00:23:10.980 Our technology industry,
00:23:12.920 phones,
00:23:13.680 satellites,
00:23:14.320 computers,
00:23:16.020 cars,
00:23:17.320 the level
00:23:18.500 of our economy
00:23:19.660 that would be held
00:23:21.200 hostage to China
00:23:22.540 if China took over Taiwan
00:23:24.220 would be devastating.
00:23:27.140 So the right answer
00:23:28.640 is not
00:23:29.400 let's send in
00:23:30.660 the Navy
00:23:31.640 to go fight
00:23:32.220 the Chinese Navy.
00:23:33.100 That's a very bad outcome.
00:23:34.220 the level
00:23:35.840 the response
00:23:36.860 instead is
00:23:37.920 let's be smart
00:23:38.880 and proactive
00:23:39.540 and deter the invasion
00:23:40.720 in the first place
00:23:41.740 by making clear
00:23:43.200 that the cost
00:23:44.720 to China
00:23:45.320 will significantly
00:23:46.160 exceed the potential benefits.
00:23:48.160 This is why
00:23:48.520 it's so important
00:23:49.020 to have
00:23:49.560 a foreign policy
00:23:50.640 philosophy
00:23:51.260 because you can
00:23:52.040 identify U.S. interests
00:23:53.100 and then you can
00:23:53.680 moderate our response
00:23:55.120 and how to be
00:23:55.960 a deterrent first
00:23:57.040 based on
00:23:58.140 that structure,
00:23:59.120 that framework
00:23:59.640 and not based on
00:24:00.820 just the emotion
00:24:01.540 of the moment.
00:24:03.360 Okay,
00:24:03.660 we have a mailbag question
00:24:04.720 and some context
00:24:05.500 for this question.
00:24:06.720 This week
00:24:07.220 the Senate
00:24:07.800 is set to vote
00:24:08.640 at the end of the week
00:24:09.520 on the Manchin-Schumer
00:24:11.520 so-called
00:24:12.640 Inflation Reduction Act
00:24:13.980 of 2022.
00:24:15.000 We know that Manchin
00:24:15.760 caved to Schumer
00:24:16.760 after Manchin
00:24:17.420 had torpedoed
00:24:18.160 Build Back Better.
00:24:18.960 This is kind of
00:24:19.480 Build Back Better light.
00:24:20.760 They claim it's
00:24:21.320 addressing inflation.
00:24:22.280 We know that
00:24:22.620 that's not true.
00:24:23.840 Craig Alexander asks,
00:24:25.940 do you believe
00:24:26.640 Senator Cruz
00:24:27.380 that Senator
00:24:28.300 Kyrsten Sinema
00:24:29.320 will vote yes
00:24:30.400 for this bill?
00:24:31.240 I genuinely
00:24:32.420 don't know.
00:24:33.620 It is the only hope
00:24:34.780 of defeating it.
00:24:35.500 So there are 49
00:24:36.200 Democrats who are yes.
00:24:37.620 I'm confident
00:24:38.580 there are 50
00:24:39.380 Republicans who are no.
00:24:41.220 So the only one
00:24:42.380 who will decide it
00:24:43.180 is Kyrsten Sinema.
00:24:45.140 I will tell you
00:24:46.140 Sinema was playing
00:24:47.020 pretty coy today.
00:24:47.880 So she was
00:24:48.480 on the Senate floor.
00:24:50.120 She was in the cloak
00:24:50.680 room today.
00:24:51.260 We were all asking her
00:24:52.180 saying, you know,
00:24:52.800 gosh, a no
00:24:54.140 would be a really
00:24:54.720 great vote.
00:24:55.300 We'd love to see it.
00:24:56.820 She wouldn't tell us.
00:24:58.200 So we asked her.
00:24:59.120 She wouldn't tell us.
00:25:00.820 She is not publicly
00:25:02.340 committed.
00:25:03.040 So she has not said
00:25:04.320 one way or another.
00:25:06.920 I think it is possible.
00:25:11.160 She may insist
00:25:12.300 on some changes to it.
00:25:13.500 If I were to guess
00:25:14.460 what's most likely,
00:25:16.340 I think it's most likely
00:25:17.580 she votes for something,
00:25:19.260 but it's not
00:25:20.060 this exact version.
00:25:21.120 And I don't know
00:25:21.700 what her conditions
00:25:22.420 will be,
00:25:22.940 but I think
00:25:23.580 she will probably
00:25:25.460 put a price
00:25:27.520 on her yes vote.
00:25:29.400 And I hope
00:25:30.380 the price
00:25:30.940 makes it less bad.
00:25:32.300 On these issues,
00:25:33.720 she has been,
00:25:35.140 look,
00:25:35.420 she's had real guts
00:25:36.260 taking on Schumer
00:25:37.100 and the crazies
00:25:37.720 in her parties.
00:25:38.480 And so
00:25:39.200 I don't know
00:25:40.300 what that'll be.
00:25:42.160 But if I were
00:25:43.320 to predict
00:25:43.880 she will have
00:25:45.880 some condition
00:25:46.600 and make them
00:25:47.200 change it somehow.
00:25:48.760 And if they do that,
00:25:50.280 I think she probably
00:25:51.240 gets to yes
00:25:52.020 at the end of the day.
00:25:52.800 But I don't know.
00:25:53.360 We'll find out
00:25:53.880 in the next couple of days.
00:25:55.320 Well, I think
00:25:55.640 we're all going to be
00:25:56.280 sitting here waiting
00:25:57.000 with bated breath
00:25:57.840 to see what she decides.
00:25:59.060 I hope and I pray
00:25:59.920 that she has the courage
00:26:00.740 to reject this
00:26:01.480 tremendously bad bill.
00:26:03.040 But what do you guys think?
00:26:04.120 Let me know.
00:26:04.680 Post, tell me.
00:26:05.340 Do you think Sinema
00:26:05.760 is going to vote yes?
00:26:06.380 Do you think she's
00:26:06.800 going to vote no?
00:26:07.320 Do you think she's
00:26:07.720 going to put conditions
00:26:08.420 on it that will be
00:26:10.200 given to her
00:26:11.180 and then she will vote yes?
00:26:12.600 What do you think?
00:26:13.380 Post, let me know.
00:26:14.320 Also, don't forget
00:26:14.940 we have two episodes
00:26:15.780 of The Cloak Room
00:26:16.560 this week.
00:26:17.360 In our next episode,
00:26:18.340 we're going to talk
00:26:18.880 about a topic
00:26:19.380 that I promised you
00:26:20.000 a couple weeks
00:26:20.520 we would talk about.
00:26:21.220 We're finally getting to it.
00:26:22.400 We're going to talk
00:26:26.280 I don't want to miss this one.
00:26:27.560 Senator, as always,
00:26:28.620 it was good to chat with you.
00:26:29.900 I'm Liz Wheeler.
00:26:30.620 This is The Cloak Room
00:26:31.600 on Verdict Plus.
00:26:32.960 This is an iHeart podcast.
00:26:35.660 Guaranteed human.