Verdict with Ted Cruz - The Deal of the Century

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.540 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.580 Arguments are over.

00:00:06.200 Question time is about to begin.

00:00:08.160 And Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell says he doesn't have the votes to end impeachment.

00:00:13.240 Away we go.

00:00:14.080 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:00:24.460 Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:00:26.620 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:00:27.620 Senator, before we get started, I am seeing reports on Twitter, I want to hear it straight

00:00:33.040 from you, that Mitch McConnell called the senators into a room and said he does not have the

00:00:39.040 votes to stop witnesses.

00:00:40.580 He does not have the votes to end impeachment.

00:00:43.580 Well, I think those reports overstated a little bit.

00:00:46.720 The votes are up in the air.

00:00:47.980 It's not clear where the votes are.

00:00:49.780 But it is absolutely true. 0.86

00:00:51.100 We finished opening arguments today, finished it relatively early, about three o'clock in

00:00:56.120 the afternoon.

00:00:57.740 And afterwards, all the Republicans went back to a conference room to talk about, okay,

00:01:02.000 what next?

00:01:03.240 And the next two days are questions.

00:01:06.540 But then on Friday is the vote.

00:01:08.320 And it's the vote on whether to hear additional witnesses.

00:01:11.420 And by the way, that word additional is important.

00:01:14.240 The media, when they report it, keep describing it as the vote, whether or not to hear witnesses.

00:01:20.980 Right.

00:01:21.280 But it's worth noting the House heard testimony from 17 witnesses.

00:01:27.540 And they played that testimony for us.

00:01:31.760 They relied on those documents.

00:01:33.220 They laid it forward.

00:01:34.060 So the question is, is any additional evidence or any additional witnesses necessary?

00:01:39.820 That is a close question.

00:01:41.240 I don't know where the votes are.

00:01:43.420 All 47 Democrats are going to vote yes.

00:01:46.740 So the question is, are there going to be four Republicans to join them?

00:01:50.300 You've had, there could be.

00:01:53.080 It is close.

00:01:54.000 And so this was a meeting.

00:01:55.180 And we have these periodically.

00:01:57.140 It, where leadership kind of brings the conference together and is trying to whip everyone

00:02:02.660 and get everyone in line.

00:02:05.120 You know, I have to admit afterwards, Mike Lee and I were laughing because we've been to a

00:02:08.380 bunch of those meetings and usually it's leadership unloading on the conservatives.

00:02:12.660 Mike, Mike and I are used to being, being the bad guys and being like, you know, just

00:02:16.760 they're pounding on us going, why, why are you guys like, like causing trouble?

00:02:22.040 In this instance, it was actually leadership trying to, the, the, the folks that are threatening

00:02:26.300 to vote with the Democrats are, are the more, more moderate Republicans.

00:02:29.160 And so it was very much a, uh, an effort designed to bring them along.

00:02:34.200 That must've felt nice to be the good guy in one of these conference meetings.

00:02:38.460 Yeah.

00:02:39.280 Nice.

00:02:39.680 Although a little terrifying, but, uh, but, but, uh, look, I think there were a lot of

00:02:44.820 good arguments that were made.

00:02:46.800 Um, the folks who are wobbly, the folks who haven't made up their mind where they're going

00:02:51.520 to be, they were essentially quiet.

00:02:53.360 So these are the people that you call the rhinos, the squishes. 1.00

00:02:57.120 That's the, those are the mean terms.

00:02:58.840 I'm not going to throw any epithets.

00:03:01.500 Right.

00:03:01.600 Um, but listen, I, I think as a constitutional matter, as a legal matter, this is a very easy

00:03:09.300 decision.

00:03:09.800 The house managers haven't proven their case.

00:03:11.580 They have the burden of proof.

00:03:12.960 They have a burden of proof to prove the president committed high crimes or misdemeanors.

00:03:16.340 And they haven't done that.

00:03:17.340 And in terms of the structure here, I mean, the reason that this meeting is crucial now

00:03:20.720 is you had the house Democrats make their arguments for impeachment.

00:03:24.940 They got their, their time to do that.

00:03:26.800 Then the Trump team got its time to defend the president against impeachment.

00:03:31.120 Now, over the next couple of days, we're heading into question time.

00:03:34.600 That is when the senators get to ask questions of the two legal teams.

00:03:39.520 Right.

00:03:39.660 So this is the moment now where everybody's got to sort of circle the wagons and get the

00:03:44.160 strategy.

00:03:44.620 Well, and in this huddle, I mean, a bunch of us stood up and had different things to say.

00:03:48.120 So, so I stood up and I tried to present three arguments to the conference as to why we should

00:03:53.060 say we've heard enough.

00:03:53.940 We don't need additional witnesses.

00:03:55.920 The first I said is, look, as we've seen from the New York Times with this John Bolton

00:04:00.760 stuff, there's going to be a bombshell a day.

00:04:03.620 This is the game they're going to play.

00:04:04.680 There's going to be a bombshell tomorrow.

00:04:06.120 I don't know what it is, but it's going to be something.

00:04:08.040 And they're going to do it again the next day.

00:04:10.420 And, and, and I relayed, look, this is, this is what the game they played during the

00:04:14.220 Kavanaugh hearings, where they held all the accusations to the end.

00:04:17.100 And then they rolled out one after the other, after the other.

00:04:20.280 And I said, look, the, the, the media wants to browbeat Republicans into extending this.

00:04:25.820 So that was my first point.

00:04:26.840 My second point is, listen, the Democrats, they haven't proven their case.

00:04:30.400 They're losing right now.

00:04:31.960 So their game is just delay.

00:04:34.220 They just want to delay this, keep it going as long as possible and engage in a fishing

00:04:38.440 expedition.

00:04:38.880 So bring in another witness.

00:04:40.620 Maybe they'll get something from a witness, but just extend it out.

00:04:43.800 And in particular, Chuck Schumer has not been subtle about trying to put Senate Republicans

00:04:49.500 in purple states who are up for reelection in a hard position where whatever they vote,

00:04:54.520 it's interesting.

00:04:55.100 Schumer actually doesn't care.

00:04:56.200 I think how the purple state Republicans vote, because if, if they vote against the

00:05:01.340 president on a witness question, that'll demoralize their base and make it easier to beat them. 0.99

00:05:07.380 On the other hand, if, if, if they vote with the president and all the questions, then that'll

00:05:11.340 let in a purple state that, that, that may not be solidly Republican, that then gives

00:05:16.740 an opening for the Democrats who are running against them to attack them.

00:05:20.860 And interestingly enough, a number of the folks there described how their Democratic opponents

00:05:25.220 were staying silent on impeachment.

00:05:27.860 That it's clear Schumer sent out the word, just stay out of impeachment and we'll drag it

00:05:32.920 on.

00:05:33.140 But, but the third point I made, and this is an important point that, that on the question

00:05:38.120 of, do we need additional witnesses, most of that's focused on John Bolton.

00:05:42.260 There's a point that there's been so much talking and yabbering, it gets lost and it's

00:05:45.900 really important, which is in the house, John Bolton went to a district court and he said

00:05:53.000 he was willing to testify and he asked a district judge, what should I do?

00:05:56.880 Cause the white house has told me not to, the house wants me to.

00:05:59.520 And the house of representatives affirmatively went to the district court in writing and said,

00:06:04.960 we don't need John Bolton.

00:06:06.440 They, they withdrew their request.

00:06:08.360 It wasn't a big, they already got 17 other people to testify.

00:06:10.780 They never subpoenaed him and they withdrew their request.

00:06:13.920 They said, we're not asking for him.

00:06:15.600 And so I put it out.

00:06:16.420 I said, look, I understand for senators, they're agonizing and the media will beat up on you

00:06:20.800 and say, don't you really want to be fair and call him?

00:06:22.740 If they wanted to call John Bolton, they could have tried and they decided they didn't

00:06:28.760 need his testimony.

00:06:29.860 This is not about John Bolton or any one witness.

00:06:32.660 This is about delay it and engage in a phishing expedition.

00:06:36.200 Now you said that right now the Democrats are losing.

00:06:39.880 Do you mean they're losing in terms of the arguments they're making?

00:06:43.280 Do you mean they're losing politically because they do not have the votes to remove the president?

00:06:47.220 What's the relationship between the two?

00:06:49.260 All of the above.

00:06:49.940 All of the above.

00:06:50.620 Look on substance that they haven't, they haven't proven their case in interest.

00:06:56.140 I think a lot of the American people have checked out.

00:06:58.820 Yes.

00:06:59.040 Um, you know, I, I gotta admit like, like today, the, the, the number of, if it weren't

00:07:04.600 the middle of the afternoon, I'm, I'm, I'm not sure half the Senate wouldn't have been

00:07:07.780 napping at their desks.

00:07:10.100 Um, this has gone on already a long time.

00:07:13.600 Yeah.

00:07:14.360 Um, and there's no there, there.

00:07:16.720 You know, it was interesting, Michael.

00:07:17.860 I was thinking, so we've heard both sides opening.

00:07:20.580 We've heard 20, 24 hours was allocated to each.

00:07:22.880 And, and after hearing it, I was thinking, all right, well, what are the, what are the

00:07:27.620 main arguments the Democrats had of what did the president do wrong?

00:07:31.520 Right.

00:07:31.680 So 24 hours into, you know, a few bullet points.

00:07:35.180 Yeah.

00:07:36.560 And, and as I can see it, there are five things, five big things that the Democrats say the

00:07:41.460 president did wrong.

00:07:43.420 Here's the crazy irony.

00:07:45.380 Every single one of them, it is objectively true.

00:07:49.480 The Democrats have done worse.

00:07:50.860 So let's go through them one at a time.

00:07:52.920 So one thing they say the president did wrong was delay aid to Ukraine.

00:07:57.280 So they've talked a lot about that.

00:07:58.500 And so they had, you know, all these moments of, you know, people are dying in Ukraine and

00:08:01.940 it's terrible.

00:08:03.000 Well, what is undisputed?

00:08:04.880 Yes.

00:08:05.340 The president paused aid to Ukraine, but what is undisputed is that Barack Obama never gave

00:08:13.980 lethal military aid, defensive weapons to Ukraine.

00:08:18.020 But we're all told in the news, I've seen in the news that Obama gave aid to Ukraine.

00:08:22.040 Obama gave blankets and MREs, meals.

00:08:25.840 And in fact, look, I was sitting on the House floor when President Poroshenko, the president

00:08:29.420 of Ukraine came and addressed us.

00:08:31.080 And he said explicitly, he said, blankets are fine, but you can't stop a Russian tank with 0.86

00:08:38.500 a blanket.

00:08:38.840 So what you're saying, though, is that the Obama administration did not give lethal aid,

00:08:43.140 meaning aid they could use in the aggression against Russia, but the Trump administration

00:08:46.360 did give lethal aid.

00:08:47.360 The Trump administration gave Javelin missiles, which can take out a Russian tank.

00:08:53.740 So you want to talk about like, all right, bad thing number one, delaying military aid

00:08:58.520 to Ukraine.

00:08:59.120 On any measure, Obama much, not even a little bit, much, much worse than Trump.

00:09:04.320 Trump has been much stronger on Ukraine.

00:09:06.000 How about number two, quid pro quo, lots of discussion about quid pro quo.

00:09:10.500 On the president, there's conflicting witness testimony.

00:09:13.240 There's that there's testimony on both sides.

00:09:15.400 But you know what there is a conflicting testimony on Joe Biden, Joe Biden admitted a quid pro

00:09:21.200 quo and a much more serious quid pro quo.

00:09:23.520 You know what I've been calling the son of a bitch clip where he said, played it the other

00:09:27.160 night on the show, did where he said, you know, he threatened Ukraine.

00:09:30.840 He'd cut off a billion dollars in aid unless they fired the prosecutor investigating Burisma,

00:09:35.380 the natural gas company paying his son at least a million bucks a year.

00:09:40.720 So what what President Trump might have considered doing but didn't actually do in the end.

00:09:46.420 Did or didn't do and it doesn't matter whether there was a quid pro quo for Trump doesn't

00:09:49.860 matter legally.

00:09:50.660 But if they think quid pro quos are bad, they have Joe Biden admitting it.

00:09:56.000 Right.

00:09:56.120 And being proud of the quid pro quo unequivocally.

00:09:59.880 OK.

00:10:00.180 And a much more serious quid pro quo.

00:10:02.460 All right.

00:10:03.040 How about number three, the cover up?

00:10:04.580 That's a word the Democrats have said over and over again.

00:10:06.420 Cover up, cover up, cover up because the White House asserted executive privilege.

00:10:11.360 Well, you know what there has been a cover up of?

00:10:13.980 All of the evidence on Joe Biden and Hunter Biden and Burisma.

00:10:17.000 Right.

00:10:17.340 The House blocked all those witnesses.

00:10:19.360 They didn't want to hear any of it.

00:10:20.460 They didn't talk about it at all.

00:10:22.340 You didn't get me.

00:10:23.100 They and they keep saying you Trump couldn't even investigate.

00:10:27.840 They want to cover this up because, look, Joe Biden is their front runner.

00:10:31.900 They don't want the evidence that that.

00:10:33.940 And it's important to note this is not about Hunter Biden corruption.

00:10:38.580 This is about whether Joe Biden.

00:10:41.040 Right.

00:10:41.300 The vice president was involved in corruption.

00:10:43.580 But number four.

00:10:46.720 Investigate the rival.

00:10:48.660 That's another thing.

00:10:49.360 OK.

00:10:49.660 So he was trying to investigate his political rival.

00:10:53.120 So let me get this straight.

00:10:54.160 You're saying it's inappropriate.

00:10:56.040 It's wrong to want to investigate your political rival.

00:10:59.980 Well, you know who did that?

00:11:01.560 Guy named Barack Obama in 2016.

00:11:03.760 Who launched a major investigation of Donald Trump, sent in spies, put wiretaps on the Trump

00:11:10.040 campaign, had the FBI and DOJ lying and fabricating evidence, as the inspector general laid out.

00:11:15.420 So if you're saying I just look like for a Democrat.

00:11:18.800 OK, so you're saying it's wrong to investigate your political rival like Barack Obama did.

00:11:25.300 Because, by the way, regardless of how Democrats would justify the Obama administration spying on the Trump campaign, we know that it happened.

00:11:35.300 We know that that occurred.

00:11:36.680 So regardless of how you could justify or attack President Trump's asking for an investigation in Ukraine, the same principle holds.

00:11:43.520 On any measure, Obama did it more than Trump.

00:11:45.780 On any measure.

00:11:46.440 Like if you put them side by side, who did more to investigate their rival?

00:11:51.260 It's no question.

00:11:52.040 It's not, it's not, gosh, it's kind of close.

00:11:54.400 It's kind of a little bit.

00:11:55.500 It's, Trump said, how come no one's investigating this thing?

00:11:59.460 Look, Joe's bragging about firing the prosecutor.

00:12:02.160 I mean, it, that was it.

00:12:04.180 And by all appearances, Ukraine didn't do anything.

00:12:06.980 With Obama, they got wiretaps and did an investigation.

00:12:10.740 They, I mean, they went all in.

00:12:12.560 And then number five, cheating on an election.

00:12:15.940 So that's the big, you know, it's interesting.

00:12:18.420 I bet you the Democrats have focus grouped this.

00:12:20.500 Yeah.

00:12:20.860 Because cheat's a very simple word.

00:12:22.780 It's a word people can understand.

00:12:24.200 You know it since the first grade.

00:12:25.640 And they talk about, that's what Trump was trying to do is cheat.

00:12:30.000 Well, the irony is, what is this impeachment all about?

00:12:33.200 It's about wanting to cheat on the 2020 election because the Democrats have been real candid.

00:12:38.140 If they think if the American people have the chance to vote for President Trump, they will.

00:12:43.460 So this is all about get them off the ballot.

00:12:46.020 So if you're just assessing who's trying to cheat to win an election,

00:12:49.360 abusing the Constitution to try to impeach a president because you're afraid the voters will

00:12:57.100 elect him, reelect him, that is election fraud cheating at the highest level.

00:13:03.300 And so all five of the things they say the president did wrong, I don't think the president

00:13:08.760 did wrong.

00:13:09.420 But if those things are wrong, I don't know how you can coherently argue anything other

00:13:15.980 than the Democrats are much, much worse on all five.

00:13:18.780 And on that fifth point, on the cheating point, the Democrats have actually been consistent

00:13:22.520 on this.

00:13:23.220 You heard Adam Schiff, the House impeachment manager, the other day.

00:13:26.160 He said, we can't let this go to the ballot box in November because we're probably going

00:13:30.220 to lose.

00:13:30.540 And you had Democratic Representative Al Green in 2017 say, we need to impeach this president

00:13:36.140 because if we don't, I fear he may be reelected.

00:13:39.940 Look, you remember freshman Representative Tlaib coming in to be sworn in, was caught on video

00:13:47.660 screaming, we're going to impeach the MF-er, although she didn't abbreviate it. 1.00

00:13:54.380 That's literally like coming in what she promised to do.

00:13:58.520 So then, as you say, it's pretty clear, I think, for any of the 10 Americans who have

00:14:03.400 been watching all of these endless impeachment hearings, and for the many, many Americans

00:14:08.100 who are listening to this show, it seems pretty clear how the argument stands.

00:14:11.440 So there is actually one guy locked in a grain silo with clips on his windows, on his eyelids,

00:14:19.100 and it's like a clockwork orange.

00:14:20.560 Somewhere someone is playing every moment of this impeachment trial, and it's just probably

00:14:26.100 scientist experience.

00:14:27.000 And it is cruel and unusual punishment without question.

00:14:30.220 Is there a chance, though, because it is clear, that you will see any Democrats break

00:14:35.780 from their party and vote to acquit the president in this trial?

00:14:39.960 So I think there is a chance.

00:14:41.740 I think the most likely would be a Joe Manchin, a Democrat from West Virginia.

00:14:46.920 Remember, he voted for Brett Kavanaugh.

00:14:48.320 That probably got him reelected.

00:14:49.580 What about Dianne Feinstein from California, who just reports were coming out that she may

00:14:55.240 acquit?

00:14:56.200 Look, who knows?

00:14:57.360 There was L.A. Times reported that today, but then she issued a hasty retraction.

00:15:02.000 Right.

00:15:03.420 Look, I think I'd be pretty surprised if she voted to acquit.

00:15:06.940 I think so far, the Democrats have been party-line on everything.

00:15:11.980 So you haven't seen any cracks in their facade.

00:15:14.100 I think you could see Kyrsten Sinema, the new senator from Arizona.

00:15:19.440 I could see a universe where she votes to acquit. 1.00

00:15:23.560 It's not impossible that Doug Jones votes to acquit the Democrat from Alabama, although

00:15:28.400 I don't think he will.

00:15:29.380 But it's not impossible.

00:15:30.640 Why don't you think he will?

00:15:31.760 Because he's a Democrat in a very red state.

00:15:34.160 I think he realizes he's going to lose in November.

00:15:39.280 And so he's wanting to do what Heidi Heitkamp, remember Heidi Heitkamp, who was a Democrat

00:15:43.580 elected in North Dakota?

00:15:44.920 Yep.

00:15:45.480 So last cycle, she just voted liberal on everything and went down and lost badly.

00:15:50.320 Go down swinging.

00:15:51.120 And I think Jones has basically made that same call that he's going to lose.

00:15:55.340 And so he wants to go back and be lionized in liberal circles.

00:16:00.800 Speaking of efforts that seem futile but are probably worth a shot, you did not spend

00:16:06.000 your whole day in the Capitol.

00:16:07.880 You, I noticed, headed over to the White House where a new plan for peace in the Middle East

00:16:13.080 was being announced.

00:16:14.600 Can you?

00:16:15.420 I mean, obviously, you can if physically.

00:16:18.380 But is it appropriate now for you to tell a little bit about what happened?

00:16:22.560 Sure.

00:16:22.760 And actually, as it so happens today, I went to the White House not once but twice.

00:16:27.100 So I started the day with a meeting in the White House with Jared Kushner, who's been

00:16:31.640 the president's point person on the Middle East peace process and a number of other senators.

00:16:37.540 And he was talking to us about the substance of their proposal and walking through it.

00:16:41.140 And so it was essentially a pre-brief of here's what's going to be announced.

00:16:44.820 And I got to say, the White House did a remarkable job of keeping the details quite quiet, which

00:16:49.720 pretty much nothing in this town is quiet.

00:16:52.180 So for them to do that was well done.

00:16:55.260 And then I left and went to a couple of meetings.

00:16:58.520 And then I came back at noon for the big announcement.

00:17:02.120 And President Trump was there, but also Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was there.

00:17:07.640 And they had a big announcement at the White House.

00:17:09.740 And, you know, it was interesting.

00:17:11.360 I think there were several points that were powerful.

00:17:15.060 Number one was just the contrast, that President Trump is standing up and announcing major efforts

00:17:21.260 trying to achieve peace in the Middle East.

00:17:24.260 Now, that's hard.

00:17:25.280 You want to talk about really, really hard?

00:17:27.840 That's hard.

00:17:28.600 But you actually have a president who's working and trying to advance American interests and

00:17:33.520 trying to support our friend and ally Israel.

00:17:36.360 And the contrast, the Democrats are just in this impeachment circle.

00:17:39.760 And by the way, at the announcement today with President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu,

00:17:46.100 you know how many Democrats were there at the announcement?

00:17:49.720 How many?

00:17:50.080 Zero.

00:17:51.280 Well, they were so busy having fun at the impeachment trial.

00:17:54.520 They're focused just on partisan politics.

00:17:57.160 And listen, the deal, the terms of it are still not, I don't know all the details of the terms.

00:18:03.720 Yeah, is there any sense of what this deal includes?

00:18:06.180 So what Jared walked through and some of what the President Netanyahu walked through also is it is a deal that gives Israel a great deal. 0.75

00:18:13.500 So it recognizes the legitimacy of settlements that Israel has had, settlements in what's called Judea and Samaria,

00:18:21.080 which are beyond the lines, what are called the 1967 lines.

00:18:25.680 And so that for Israel is a big deal.

00:18:27.480 Israel was attacked and in 1967 expanded the map of Israel in a defensive war where they were defending their borders.

00:18:34.500 And this map recognizes Israel's sovereignty over land that they've been in for a long, long time.

00:18:43.720 Half a century.

00:18:44.120 But that's a major acknowledgement of Israel's rights of sovereignty.

00:18:52.000 It also, with regard to Jerusalem, keeps the core city of Jerusalem undivided.

00:18:58.020 That is a big deal.

00:18:59.340 So there are some proposals that would divide Jerusalem between the Palestinian Arabs.

00:19:04.140 Yes.

00:19:04.320 And the Israelis. 0.66

00:19:05.140 Now this proposal keeps a portion of East Jerusalem, but it's outside of what has technically been the city.

00:19:10.760 So the Palestinians could call what they had Jerusalem, but it preserves what is actually Jerusalem to be an Israeli city.

00:19:18.960 Okay.

00:19:19.120 But it also ensures that Muslims have access to the mosque in Jerusalem and to the holy site.

00:19:30.440 But at the same time, it sets up conditions for creating a Palestinian state, a two-state solution.

00:19:39.000 Okay.

00:19:39.220 And it also promises $50 billion in investment capital from Arab countries primarily, but it's a lot of capital into the new Palestinian state.

00:19:50.820 Oh, well that's a pretty nice carrot stick there to try to bring people to the table for peace.

00:19:56.460 And look, the devil is in the details.

00:19:59.720 Palestinian authority refused to show up.

00:20:02.140 So you didn't have the leader of the Palestinians there.

00:20:04.800 But he was invited.

00:20:05.860 He wouldn't take the phone call.

00:20:07.180 So this deal, while it may be a step forward, probably is not going to go anywhere.

00:20:14.060 Well, maybe, maybe not.

00:20:15.400 I'll say the Trump administration did a couple of things that are pretty impressive.

00:20:18.420 Number one, they got the support not only of Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister, but also Benny Gantz, who is his principal rival.

00:20:26.480 And the two of them, they keep having election after election to determine who's going to be the next prime minister.

00:20:30.980 And they're from different parties.

00:20:32.580 They're very different politically.

00:20:34.640 And both Netanyahu and Gantz supported this proposal.

00:20:37.220 So the two big sides in Israel are behind this deal.

00:20:41.000 That's a big deal, that the Trump administration was able to unify the kind of range of Israeli politics.

00:20:47.500 That was not easy.

00:20:48.560 And secondly, we've seen some early signs of support from the Arab world for this proposal.

00:20:54.520 There were three different Arab ambassadors, Muslim ambassadors, who were there at the announcement, which is a big deal as well.

00:21:04.000 And part of the White House's strategy is to try to get broad support so that the Palestinians feel more pressure to come to the table.

00:21:13.280 Now, the White House has been very open that the details are negotiable, but you've got to sit down and start negotiating.

00:21:20.900 And, you know, my view on a two-state solution, there are a lot of Republicans who insist there's got to be a two-state solution.

00:21:26.520 A two-state solution would be a state of Israel and then a new state for Palestine.

00:21:30.260 Yeah.

00:21:30.440 And that used to be kind of Republicans were adamant.

00:21:33.800 Democrats were adamant about it, but a lot of Republicans were adamant about it.

00:21:36.360 But I had been pretty vocal in saying, who the hell are we to tell them how they should resolve their security issues?

00:21:44.120 That's a decision.

00:21:45.020 Israel's a sovereign nation.

00:21:46.440 Right.

00:21:46.620 They should decide.

00:21:47.740 If Israel thinks a two-state solution is a good idea, that's fine by me, but we shouldn't force it down their throat.

00:21:54.000 So I was encouraged today, because you had Netanyahu and Gantz supporting it, you had Israel pretty enthusiastic about it.

00:22:03.760 If they make that determination, I think we should be supportive of that.

00:22:08.320 And I will say, listen, I have long been pessimistic that Middle East peace is going to burst out anytime soon.

00:22:15.940 I don't think the Palestinian Authority wants peace.

00:22:18.420 It would seem that way.

00:22:19.140 I think they still refuse to recognize even that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state.

00:22:25.500 Right.

00:22:25.860 And they continue to embrace terrorism.

00:22:27.980 I mean, they are in a unity government with Hamas, a terrorist organization.

00:22:33.060 But even though I'm pessimistic because I don't think the Palestinians want peace,

00:22:38.460 what I have urged the Trump administration for three years is,

00:22:42.000 because they've been very focused on trying to produce Middle East peace,

00:22:44.420 you're more likely to get it if you're unequivocal in saying, we stand with Israel.

00:22:50.480 We're not going to waffle.

00:22:51.560 We're not going to blow in the wind.

00:22:52.720 We're not going to be, oh, I don't know.

00:22:54.820 Because if that's the case, the Palestinians have demonstrated for decades, 0.99

00:22:58.760 they'll play world opinion.

00:23:00.320 They'll attack us in the New York Times and let the U.S. flap back and forth.

00:23:04.340 And I will say the president has agreed with what I've said.

00:23:07.520 So, for example, the Trump administration moved our embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.

00:23:12.540 Republican and Democratic presidents had promised to do that.

00:23:15.020 Nobody did it.

00:23:16.100 Trump did it.

00:23:16.960 That was a big deal.

00:23:18.380 President Trump recognized the Golan Heights in the north of Israel as part of Israel.

00:23:23.720 I had urged the president to do that.

00:23:26.200 The president did it.

00:23:27.580 And the president pulled out of the Iran nuclear deal.

00:23:30.460 Right.

00:23:30.700 Big, big deal.

00:23:32.740 The Defense Department and State Department both opposed that.

00:23:36.660 I made the case vigorously to the president.

00:23:38.800 He did it.

00:23:39.100 And I do think the dynamic we are now negotiating for a position of strength where the president

00:23:44.620 can say, we stand with Israel, but we'll facilitate a discussion for peace.

00:23:49.700 And you know what?

00:23:51.060 Palestinian Authority didn't show up, but the Democrats didn't either.

00:23:54.100 Right.

00:23:54.940 Quite a comparison.

00:23:56.460 And it would seem, you know, obviously the White House has some credibility on this issue.

00:24:01.000 So while we may not, unfortunately, resolve Middle East peace tonight, we can, in our last

00:24:06.780 moment or two here, get to a couple questions in the mailbag.

00:24:10.100 Right.

00:24:10.840 From Jay.

00:24:13.460 Who breaks the tie if the impeachment vote on witnesses comes in 50-50?

00:24:20.140 So that's a complicated question.

00:24:22.240 It's not entirely clear from the rules.

00:24:25.840 So it's not, I would think there'd be a simple answer in the Constitution or something.

00:24:29.300 Well, so there's normally a simple answer.

00:24:31.180 So for most Senate votes, the vice president breaks the tie.

00:24:35.560 The problem is the vice president isn't presiding.

00:24:37.980 Right.

00:24:38.460 So you don't have, and by the way, you wouldn't want the vice president presiding in the impeachment

00:24:42.700 of the president.

00:24:43.400 It's got quite an interest.

00:24:44.100 If he gets impeached, he literally gets the job of president.

00:24:46.680 So that would be, the framers knew what they were doing when they didn't put the vice president

00:24:52.000 in the chair.

00:24:54.700 That'd be an interesting discussion if the vice president cast the tie-breaking vote.

00:24:58.480 Well, sorry, bud.

00:24:59.200 Sorry, pal.

00:25:00.100 You're out.

00:25:00.680 You know, my office is square.

00:25:02.280 It's not nearly as interesting as yours.

00:25:03.720 Look, it is somewhat ambiguous.

00:25:07.120 If you go back to the impeachment of Andrew Johnson, the chief justice who was presiding

00:25:14.340 there tried to cast a couple of tie-breaking votes.

00:25:17.780 Then the Senate pressed back on him.

00:25:19.320 And so it's unclear.

00:25:22.000 Wow.

00:25:22.260 It is possible the chief justice could try to cast a tie-breaking vote.

00:25:25.660 But there is ambiguity and uncertainty.

00:25:28.800 We also adopted a scheduling rule, the language of which I think permits both sides to argue

00:25:35.880 they win in the case of a tie.

00:25:37.880 If we get to a tie, it's bad news.

00:25:39.960 The best thing to do is don't have any ties, win by 51 votes.

00:25:43.240 Right, right.

00:25:44.060 As with so many aspects of this, though, it does seem we may be in uncharted territory.

00:25:50.560 A question from Matt.

00:25:53.740 Senator, where did you get your boots and where can I get a pair?

00:25:56.720 So these are Lucchese boots.

00:25:59.700 They're made in El Paso, Texas.

00:26:01.140 And I'm a huge fan of Lucchese.

00:26:02.920 I have a bunch of pairs of Lucchese.

00:26:04.360 And it's got the Senate emblem on it.

00:26:08.120 It has the Senate seal on the front, but then on the back, I don't know if the camera

00:26:12.220 can get it or not, but there's what's called the come and take it flag, which in Texas,

00:26:18.060 it was pivotal for Texas independence.

00:26:21.320 When Texas was part of Mexico, part of the nation of Mexico, Santa Ana was the dictator.

00:26:26.720 And he issued an order to the town of Gonzales, a little town in South Texas.

00:26:33.580 He said, hand over your guns and hand over the cannon that guards the city.

00:26:39.720 And the Texians, that's what they called Texans back then, was Texians.

00:26:43.020 The Texians and Gonzales, they made a flag and they hoisted above the city.

00:26:47.320 And it had a picture of the cannon.

00:26:49.620 And underneath it, the legend, come and take it.

00:26:52.900 And that was the beginning of the Texas Revolution, where we fought a revolution, had the Alamo,

00:26:58.760 but ultimately won at San Jacinto.

00:27:00.420 And Texas became our own nation for nine years.

00:27:03.640 We were the Republic of Texas, an independent nation.

00:27:06.040 And then we joined the United States.

00:27:07.480 So that's why I wear that flag.

00:27:09.440 I love Texans.

00:27:10.300 And I love Texians too, but I love Texans.

00:27:12.040 Last question is for me from Steve.

00:27:14.840 By the way, a quick aside.

00:27:16.460 Heidi and I go to church at First Baptist Church in Houston.

00:27:19.640 Something our pastor said a few years ago.

00:27:21.640 Do you know our church was founded by American missionaries abroad?

00:27:28.080 Hmm.

00:27:28.920 Because it was founded when they were in the Republic of Texas.

00:27:32.120 And they were literally American missionaries who had gone to the foreign country of Texas

00:27:36.700 as missionaries.

00:27:38.380 And they started a church, the First Baptist Church of Houston.

00:27:41.160 And so in our charter, it was American missionaries visiting us.

00:27:45.220 That, and look, their activities clearly worked.

00:27:48.120 And, you know, they're also part of the country.

00:27:49.800 Last question before we go from Steve.

00:27:51.980 For me, Michael, what's it like talking to the Zodiac Killer?

00:27:55.720 It is great talking to the Zodiac Killer because true crime podcasts tend to do very well on

00:28:02.300 the charts.

00:28:02.860 And I think that may explain some of our success remaining, even today, the number one podcast

00:28:08.500 in the country.

00:28:09.360 Look, I will say, so I remember campaigning and this one young guy held up a sign that

00:28:14.640 said, are you the Zodiac Killer?

00:28:17.140 And I just, I stopped and asked him.

00:28:19.620 I said, son, if I was, would you really want to bring that sign here today?

00:28:24.180 That I'm sufficiently terrified that I have to end the show.

00:28:27.620 Make sure to get your mailbag questions in.

00:28:30.180 The Senate will now be asking questions of the legal teams.

00:28:34.840 And we want to pass your questions along.

00:28:37.720 So tweet it at Ted Cruz, hashtag verdict.

00:28:40.940 And you can also email it in mailbag at verdictpodcast.com.

00:28:44.440 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:28:45.820 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:28:54.180 This episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz is being brought to you by Jobs, Freedom and Security

00:29:00.020 Pack, a political action committee dedicated to supporting conservative causes, organizations

00:29:05.160 and candidates across the country.

00:29:07.560 In 2022, Jobs, Freedom and Security Pack plans to donate to conservative candidates running

00:29:12.860 for Congress and help the Republican Party across the nation.

00:29:16.420 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:29:19.340 Guaranteed Human.

Verdict with Ted Cruz - January 29, 2020

The Deal of the Century

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