The Deal of the Century
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Summary
Ted Cruz and Mike Lee join me on Verdict with Ted Cruz to talk about the latest on the latest in the Trump impeachment proceedings. Ted Cruz: Is Mitch McConnell the only person with the votes to end the impeachment process?
Transcript
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And Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell says he doesn't have the votes to end impeachment.
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Senator, before we get started, I am seeing reports on Twitter, I want to hear it straight
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from you, that Mitch McConnell called the senators into a room and said he does not have the
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Well, I think those reports overstated a little bit.
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We finished opening arguments today, finished it relatively early, about three o'clock in
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And afterwards, all the Republicans went back to a conference room to talk about, okay,
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And it's the vote on whether to hear additional witnesses.
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And by the way, that word additional is important.
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The media, when they report it, keep describing it as the vote, whether or not to hear witnesses.
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But it's worth noting the House heard testimony from 17 witnesses.
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So the question is, is any additional evidence or any additional witnesses necessary?
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So the question is, are there going to be four Republicans to join them?
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It, where leadership kind of brings the conference together and is trying to whip everyone
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You know, I have to admit afterwards, Mike Lee and I were laughing because we've been to a
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bunch of those meetings and usually it's leadership unloading on the conservatives.
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Mike, Mike and I are used to being, being the bad guys and being like, you know, just
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they're pounding on us going, why, why are you guys like, like causing trouble?
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In this instance, it was actually leadership trying to, the, the, the folks that are threatening
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to vote with the Democrats are, are the more, more moderate Republicans.
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And so it was very much a, uh, an effort designed to bring them along.
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That must've felt nice to be the good guy in one of these conference meetings.
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Although a little terrifying, but, uh, but, but, uh, look, I think there were a lot of
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Um, the folks who are wobbly, the folks who haven't made up their mind where they're going
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So these are the people that you call the rhinos, the squishes.
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Um, but listen, I, I think as a constitutional matter, as a legal matter, this is a very easy
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They have a burden of proof to prove the president committed high crimes or misdemeanors.
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And in terms of the structure here, I mean, the reason that this meeting is crucial now
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is you had the house Democrats make their arguments for impeachment.
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Then the Trump team got its time to defend the president against impeachment.
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Now, over the next couple of days, we're heading into question time.
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That is when the senators get to ask questions of the two legal teams.
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So this is the moment now where everybody's got to sort of circle the wagons and get the
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Well, and in this huddle, I mean, a bunch of us stood up and had different things to say.
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So, so I stood up and I tried to present three arguments to the conference as to why we should
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The first I said is, look, as we've seen from the New York Times with this John Bolton
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I don't know what it is, but it's going to be something.
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And, and, and I relayed, look, this is, this is what the game they played during the
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Kavanaugh hearings, where they held all the accusations to the end.
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And then they rolled out one after the other, after the other.
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And I said, look, the, the, the media wants to browbeat Republicans into extending this.
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My second point is, listen, the Democrats, they haven't proven their case.
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They just want to delay this, keep it going as long as possible and engage in a fishing
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Maybe they'll get something from a witness, but just extend it out.
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And in particular, Chuck Schumer has not been subtle about trying to put Senate Republicans
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in purple states who are up for reelection in a hard position where whatever they vote,
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I think how the purple state Republicans vote, because if, if they vote against the
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president on a witness question, that'll demoralize their base and make it easier to beat them.
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On the other hand, if, if, if they vote with the president and all the questions, then that'll
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let in a purple state that, that, that may not be solidly Republican, that then gives
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an opening for the Democrats who are running against them to attack them.
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And interestingly enough, a number of the folks there described how their Democratic opponents
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That it's clear Schumer sent out the word, just stay out of impeachment and we'll drag it
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But, but the third point I made, and this is an important point that, that on the question
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of, do we need additional witnesses, most of that's focused on John Bolton.
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There's a point that there's been so much talking and yabbering, it gets lost and it's
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really important, which is in the house, John Bolton went to a district court and he said
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he was willing to testify and he asked a district judge, what should I do?
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Cause the white house has told me not to, the house wants me to.
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And the house of representatives affirmatively went to the district court in writing and said,
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It wasn't a big, they already got 17 other people to testify.
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They never subpoenaed him and they withdrew their request.
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I said, look, I understand for senators, they're agonizing and the media will beat up on you
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and say, don't you really want to be fair and call him?
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If they wanted to call John Bolton, they could have tried and they decided they didn't
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This is not about John Bolton or any one witness.
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This is about delay it and engage in a phishing expedition.
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Now you said that right now the Democrats are losing.
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Do you mean they're losing in terms of the arguments they're making?
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Do you mean they're losing politically because they do not have the votes to remove the president?
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Look on substance that they haven't, they haven't proven their case in interest.
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I think a lot of the American people have checked out.
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Um, you know, I, I gotta admit like, like today, the, the, the number of, if it weren't
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the middle of the afternoon, I'm, I'm, I'm not sure half the Senate wouldn't have been
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I was thinking, so we've heard both sides opening.
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We've heard 20, 24 hours was allocated to each.
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And, and after hearing it, I was thinking, all right, well, what are the, what are the
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main arguments the Democrats had of what did the president do wrong?
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So 24 hours into, you know, a few bullet points.
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And, and as I can see it, there are five things, five big things that the Democrats say the
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Every single one of them, it is objectively true.
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So one thing they say the president did wrong was delay aid to Ukraine.
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And so they had, you know, all these moments of, you know, people are dying in Ukraine and
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The president paused aid to Ukraine, but what is undisputed is that Barack Obama never gave
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lethal military aid, defensive weapons to Ukraine.
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But we're all told in the news, I've seen in the news that Obama gave aid to Ukraine.
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And in fact, look, I was sitting on the House floor when President Poroshenko, the president
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And he said explicitly, he said, blankets are fine, but you can't stop a Russian tank with
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So what you're saying, though, is that the Obama administration did not give lethal aid,
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meaning aid they could use in the aggression against Russia, but the Trump administration
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The Trump administration gave Javelin missiles, which can take out a Russian tank.
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So you want to talk about like, all right, bad thing number one, delaying military aid
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On any measure, Obama much, not even a little bit, much, much worse than Trump.
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How about number two, quid pro quo, lots of discussion about quid pro quo.
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On the president, there's conflicting witness testimony.
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But you know what there is a conflicting testimony on Joe Biden, Joe Biden admitted a quid pro
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You know what I've been calling the son of a bitch clip where he said, played it the other
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night on the show, did where he said, you know, he threatened Ukraine.
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He'd cut off a billion dollars in aid unless they fired the prosecutor investigating Burisma,
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the natural gas company paying his son at least a million bucks a year.
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So what what President Trump might have considered doing but didn't actually do in the end.
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Did or didn't do and it doesn't matter whether there was a quid pro quo for Trump doesn't
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But if they think quid pro quos are bad, they have Joe Biden admitting it.
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And being proud of the quid pro quo unequivocally.
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That's a word the Democrats have said over and over again.
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Cover up, cover up, cover up because the White House asserted executive privilege.
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Well, you know what there has been a cover up of?
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All of the evidence on Joe Biden and Hunter Biden and Burisma.
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They and they keep saying you Trump couldn't even investigate.
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They want to cover this up because, look, Joe Biden is their front runner.
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And it's important to note this is not about Hunter Biden corruption.
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So he was trying to investigate his political rival.
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It's wrong to want to investigate your political rival.
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Who launched a major investigation of Donald Trump, sent in spies, put wiretaps on the Trump
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campaign, had the FBI and DOJ lying and fabricating evidence, as the inspector general laid out.
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So if you're saying I just look like for a Democrat.
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OK, so you're saying it's wrong to investigate your political rival like Barack Obama did.
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Because, by the way, regardless of how Democrats would justify the Obama administration spying on the Trump campaign, we know that it happened.
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So regardless of how you could justify or attack President Trump's asking for an investigation in Ukraine, the same principle holds.
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Like if you put them side by side, who did more to investigate their rival?
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It's, Trump said, how come no one's investigating this thing?
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Look, Joe's bragging about firing the prosecutor.
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And by all appearances, Ukraine didn't do anything.
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With Obama, they got wiretaps and did an investigation.
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I bet you the Democrats have focus grouped this.
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And they talk about, that's what Trump was trying to do is cheat.
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Well, the irony is, what is this impeachment all about?
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It's about wanting to cheat on the 2020 election because the Democrats have been real candid.
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If they think if the American people have the chance to vote for President Trump, they will.
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So if you're just assessing who's trying to cheat to win an election,
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abusing the Constitution to try to impeach a president because you're afraid the voters will
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elect him, reelect him, that is election fraud cheating at the highest level.
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And so all five of the things they say the president did wrong, I don't think the president
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But if those things are wrong, I don't know how you can coherently argue anything other
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than the Democrats are much, much worse on all five.
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And on that fifth point, on the cheating point, the Democrats have actually been consistent
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You heard Adam Schiff, the House impeachment manager, the other day.
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He said, we can't let this go to the ballot box in November because we're probably going
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And you had Democratic Representative Al Green in 2017 say, we need to impeach this president
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because if we don't, I fear he may be reelected.
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Look, you remember freshman Representative Tlaib coming in to be sworn in, was caught on video
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screaming, we're going to impeach the MF-er, although she didn't abbreviate it.
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That's literally like coming in what she promised to do.
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So then, as you say, it's pretty clear, I think, for any of the 10 Americans who have
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been watching all of these endless impeachment hearings, and for the many, many Americans
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who are listening to this show, it seems pretty clear how the argument stands.
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So there is actually one guy locked in a grain silo with clips on his windows, on his eyelids,
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Somewhere someone is playing every moment of this impeachment trial, and it's just probably
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And it is cruel and unusual punishment without question.
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Is there a chance, though, because it is clear, that you will see any Democrats break
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from their party and vote to acquit the president in this trial?
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I think the most likely would be a Joe Manchin, a Democrat from West Virginia.
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What about Dianne Feinstein from California, who just reports were coming out that she may
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There was L.A. Times reported that today, but then she issued a hasty retraction.
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Look, I think I'd be pretty surprised if she voted to acquit.
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I think so far, the Democrats have been party-line on everything.
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So you haven't seen any cracks in their facade.
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I think you could see Kyrsten Sinema, the new senator from Arizona.
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I could see a universe where she votes to acquit.
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It's not impossible that Doug Jones votes to acquit the Democrat from Alabama, although
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I think he realizes he's going to lose in November.
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And so he's wanting to do what Heidi Heitkamp, remember Heidi Heitkamp, who was a Democrat
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So last cycle, she just voted liberal on everything and went down and lost badly.
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And I think Jones has basically made that same call that he's going to lose.
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And so he wants to go back and be lionized in liberal circles.
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Speaking of efforts that seem futile but are probably worth a shot, you did not spend
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You, I noticed, headed over to the White House where a new plan for peace in the Middle East
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But is it appropriate now for you to tell a little bit about what happened?
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And actually, as it so happens today, I went to the White House not once but twice.
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So I started the day with a meeting in the White House with Jared Kushner, who's been
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the president's point person on the Middle East peace process and a number of other senators.
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And he was talking to us about the substance of their proposal and walking through it.
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And so it was essentially a pre-brief of here's what's going to be announced.
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And I got to say, the White House did a remarkable job of keeping the details quite quiet, which
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And then I left and went to a couple of meetings.
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And then I came back at noon for the big announcement.
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And President Trump was there, but also Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was there.
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And they had a big announcement at the White House.
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I think there were several points that were powerful.
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Number one was just the contrast, that President Trump is standing up and announcing major efforts
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But you actually have a president who's working and trying to advance American interests and
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And the contrast, the Democrats are just in this impeachment circle.
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And by the way, at the announcement today with President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu,
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you know how many Democrats were there at the announcement?
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Well, they were so busy having fun at the impeachment trial.
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And listen, the deal, the terms of it are still not, I don't know all the details of the terms.
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Yeah, is there any sense of what this deal includes?
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So what Jared walked through and some of what the President Netanyahu walked through also is it is a deal that gives Israel a great deal.
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So it recognizes the legitimacy of settlements that Israel has had, settlements in what's called Judea and Samaria,
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which are beyond the lines, what are called the 1967 lines.
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Israel was attacked and in 1967 expanded the map of Israel in a defensive war where they were defending their borders.
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And this map recognizes Israel's sovereignty over land that they've been in for a long, long time.
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But that's a major acknowledgement of Israel's rights of sovereignty.
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It also, with regard to Jerusalem, keeps the core city of Jerusalem undivided.
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So there are some proposals that would divide Jerusalem between the Palestinian Arabs.
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Now this proposal keeps a portion of East Jerusalem, but it's outside of what has technically been the city.
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So the Palestinians could call what they had Jerusalem, but it preserves what is actually Jerusalem to be an Israeli city.
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But it also ensures that Muslims have access to the mosque in Jerusalem and to the holy site.
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But at the same time, it sets up conditions for creating a Palestinian state, a two-state solution.
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And it also promises $50 billion in investment capital from Arab countries primarily, but it's a lot of capital into the new Palestinian state.
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Oh, well that's a pretty nice carrot stick there to try to bring people to the table for peace.
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So you didn't have the leader of the Palestinians there.
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So this deal, while it may be a step forward, probably is not going to go anywhere.
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I'll say the Trump administration did a couple of things that are pretty impressive.
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Number one, they got the support not only of Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister, but also Benny Gantz, who is his principal rival.
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And the two of them, they keep having election after election to determine who's going to be the next prime minister.
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And both Netanyahu and Gantz supported this proposal.
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So the two big sides in Israel are behind this deal.
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That's a big deal, that the Trump administration was able to unify the kind of range of Israeli politics.
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And secondly, we've seen some early signs of support from the Arab world for this proposal.
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There were three different Arab ambassadors, Muslim ambassadors, who were there at the announcement, which is a big deal as well.
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And part of the White House's strategy is to try to get broad support so that the Palestinians feel more pressure to come to the table.
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Now, the White House has been very open that the details are negotiable, but you've got to sit down and start negotiating.
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And, you know, my view on a two-state solution, there are a lot of Republicans who insist there's got to be a two-state solution.
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A two-state solution would be a state of Israel and then a new state for Palestine.
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And that used to be kind of Republicans were adamant.
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Democrats were adamant about it, but a lot of Republicans were adamant about it.
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But I had been pretty vocal in saying, who the hell are we to tell them how they should resolve their security issues?
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If Israel thinks a two-state solution is a good idea, that's fine by me, but we shouldn't force it down their throat.
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So I was encouraged today, because you had Netanyahu and Gantz supporting it, you had Israel pretty enthusiastic about it.
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If they make that determination, I think we should be supportive of that.
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And I will say, listen, I have long been pessimistic that Middle East peace is going to burst out anytime soon.
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I don't think the Palestinian Authority wants peace.
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I think they still refuse to recognize even that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state.
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I mean, they are in a unity government with Hamas, a terrorist organization.
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But even though I'm pessimistic because I don't think the Palestinians want peace,
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what I have urged the Trump administration for three years is,
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because they've been very focused on trying to produce Middle East peace,
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you're more likely to get it if you're unequivocal in saying, we stand with Israel.
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Because if that's the case, the Palestinians have demonstrated for decades,
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They'll attack us in the New York Times and let the U.S. flap back and forth.
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And I will say the president has agreed with what I've said.
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So, for example, the Trump administration moved our embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.
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Republican and Democratic presidents had promised to do that.
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President Trump recognized the Golan Heights in the north of Israel as part of Israel.
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And the president pulled out of the Iran nuclear deal.
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The Defense Department and State Department both opposed that.
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And I do think the dynamic we are now negotiating for a position of strength where the president
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can say, we stand with Israel, but we'll facilitate a discussion for peace.
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Palestinian Authority didn't show up, but the Democrats didn't either.
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And it would seem, you know, obviously the White House has some credibility on this issue.
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So while we may not, unfortunately, resolve Middle East peace tonight, we can, in our last
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moment or two here, get to a couple questions in the mailbag.
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Who breaks the tie if the impeachment vote on witnesses comes in 50-50?
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So it's not, I would think there'd be a simple answer in the Constitution or something.
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So for most Senate votes, the vice president breaks the tie.
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The problem is the vice president isn't presiding.
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So you don't have, and by the way, you wouldn't want the vice president presiding in the impeachment
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If he gets impeached, he literally gets the job of president.
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So that would be, the framers knew what they were doing when they didn't put the vice president
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That'd be an interesting discussion if the vice president cast the tie-breaking vote.
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If you go back to the impeachment of Andrew Johnson, the chief justice who was presiding
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there tried to cast a couple of tie-breaking votes.
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It is possible the chief justice could try to cast a tie-breaking vote.
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We also adopted a scheduling rule, the language of which I think permits both sides to argue
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The best thing to do is don't have any ties, win by 51 votes.
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As with so many aspects of this, though, it does seem we may be in uncharted territory.
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Senator, where did you get your boots and where can I get a pair?
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It has the Senate seal on the front, but then on the back, I don't know if the camera
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can get it or not, but there's what's called the come and take it flag, which in Texas,
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When Texas was part of Mexico, part of the nation of Mexico, Santa Ana was the dictator.
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And he issued an order to the town of Gonzales, a little town in South Texas.
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He said, hand over your guns and hand over the cannon that guards the city.
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And the Texians, that's what they called Texans back then, was Texians.
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The Texians and Gonzales, they made a flag and they hoisted above the city.
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And underneath it, the legend, come and take it.
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And that was the beginning of the Texas Revolution, where we fought a revolution, had the Alamo,
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And Texas became our own nation for nine years.
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We were the Republic of Texas, an independent nation.
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Heidi and I go to church at First Baptist Church in Houston.
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Do you know our church was founded by American missionaries abroad?
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Because it was founded when they were in the Republic of Texas.
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And they were literally American missionaries who had gone to the foreign country of Texas
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And they started a church, the First Baptist Church of Houston.
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And so in our charter, it was American missionaries visiting us.
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That, and look, their activities clearly worked.
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And, you know, they're also part of the country.
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For me, Michael, what's it like talking to the Zodiac Killer?
00:27:55.720
It is great talking to the Zodiac Killer because true crime podcasts tend to do very well on
00:28:02.860
And I think that may explain some of our success remaining, even today, the number one podcast
00:28:09.360
Look, I will say, so I remember campaigning and this one young guy held up a sign that
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I said, son, if I was, would you really want to bring that sign here today?
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That I'm sufficiently terrified that I have to end the show.
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The Senate will now be asking questions of the legal teams.
00:28:40.940
And you can also email it in mailbag at verdictpodcast.com.
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This episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz is being brought to you by Jobs, Freedom and Security
00:29:00.020
Pack, a political action committee dedicated to supporting conservative causes, organizations
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In 2022, Jobs, Freedom and Security Pack plans to donate to conservative candidates running
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for Congress and help the Republican Party across the nation.