Verdict with Ted Cruz - July 01, 2021


The Poisoning of the American Mind ft. Christopher Rufo


Episode Stats

Length

39 minutes

Words per Minute

173.07062

Word Count

6,854

Sentence Count

382


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.400 Guaranteed human.
00:00:04.480 Parents across the country have been storming school board meetings
00:00:08.340 to demand an end to critical race theory in the classroom.
00:00:13.400 And prominent leftists have responded in one of two ways.
00:00:16.920 Some of them have defended critical race theory
00:00:19.500 as a good and important academic movement.
00:00:22.040 And others have denied that critical race theory exists at all.
00:00:25.920 And actually, many prominent leftists have done both at the same time.
00:00:30.680 Critical race theory doesn't exist,
00:00:32.320 but it's also terrific and wonderful and very important.
00:00:34.860 Well, here to help us break it down,
00:00:36.840 we have one of the nation's top experts on critical race theory.
00:00:40.940 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.
00:00:48.500 Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz.
00:00:50.460 I'm Michael Knowles.
00:00:51.540 And this week, I am joined not only by the senator himself,
00:00:55.920 but also by Christopher Ruffo,
00:00:58.100 who is senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute
00:01:00.460 and who is largely responsible for many people around the country
00:01:05.320 waking up to critical race theory
00:01:07.860 and the associated leftist ideological movements
00:01:11.100 that are poisoning the minds of young America.
00:01:14.720 All right, you understand my opinion of CRT,
00:01:17.460 but I want to take a somewhat balanced perspective.
00:01:20.300 Chris, thank you so much for being here.
00:01:21.820 It's great to be with you.
00:01:22.500 So, Senator, you and I were talking not so long ago
00:01:26.200 about what CRT was like back when you were a student in law school
00:01:31.060 because it did begin in the law schools,
00:01:33.440 but it didn't end in the law schools.
00:01:36.060 Well, that's right.
00:01:36.760 And Harvard Law School is really where it originated.
00:01:40.380 And unfortunately, it has metastasized and spread.
00:01:43.840 And Chris has done a terrific job of chronicling
00:01:48.120 where and when it has spread and how it's manifesting.
00:01:53.620 And so maybe one thing to start this conversation,
00:01:57.880 Chris, tell us, does critical race theory exist?
00:02:02.160 Because if I turn on MSNBC,
00:02:03.680 I see a lot of people screaming at me that there is no such thing.
00:02:07.260 Yeah, it definitely exists.
00:02:09.060 And I've noticed a lot of folks on the left,
00:02:11.180 especially in places like MSNBC, equating critical race theory
00:02:14.560 with Bigfoot, with the Loch Ness Monster.
00:02:17.680 It seems to be impossible to find,
00:02:19.220 only in the fevered imaginations of conservatives.
00:02:21.920 But critical race theorists, unfortunately for them,
00:02:24.640 left a very heavy paper trail.
00:02:26.940 If you look at the original academic writings
00:02:28.460 in the late 80s and early 90s,
00:02:30.080 all the way now to K through 12 schools,
00:02:32.500 where I've meticulously documented
00:02:34.340 not just people's experiences and people's opinions,
00:02:37.900 but actual PDFs, videos, documents,
00:02:41.620 and hard evidence of these really atrocious ideas
00:02:46.740 that are not just being discussed.
00:02:48.300 So give us an example of what's being taught
00:02:50.680 to kids in schools.
00:02:51.900 Sure.
00:02:52.300 I mean, in Cupertino, California,
00:02:53.880 they forced third graders,
00:02:56.160 kids that are about eight years old,
00:02:57.340 to deconstruct their racial and sexual identities
00:02:59.840 and then rank themselves according to a racial hierarchy.
00:03:03.740 In fifth grade, in Buffalo and Philadelphia,
00:03:07.580 they were teaching that, quote,
00:03:09.020 all white people contribute to systemic racism.
00:03:12.040 They were forcing kids to hold
00:03:14.020 a simulated black power rally in the auditorium,
00:03:17.000 chanting for Angela Davis to be freed from prison.
00:03:20.360 In a public high school in New York,
00:03:21.660 they sent out an email to white parents saying that they should be done.
00:03:24.040 And hold on, Chris, let me stop you on that.
00:03:26.420 Angela Davis, for someone who doesn't know who she is,
00:03:31.160 who's Angela Davis?
00:03:33.020 You know, in many ways,
00:03:33.900 Angela Davis was the kind of prototype of critical race theory.
00:03:38.000 She was the doctoral student
00:03:39.540 of the kind of founding American critical theorist
00:03:42.560 named Herbert Marcuse,
00:03:43.880 who advocated for revolution,
00:03:45.600 who condoned even violence.
00:03:47.880 Angela Davis was his student,
00:03:49.380 steeped in Marxist ideology,
00:03:51.280 who eventually was provided weapons
00:03:54.700 for a hostage situation in a courtroom.
00:03:57.860 She was a member of the Communist Party.
00:03:59.580 She advocated for the overthrow of the United States,
00:04:02.140 abolishing capitalism.
00:04:03.780 And a lot of those ideas that,
00:04:05.480 during Davis's time,
00:04:06.380 were really on the radical left fringe,
00:04:08.680 have now moved not only into mainstream university discourse,
00:04:11.960 but even into public K-12 schools
00:04:14.440 under this guise of critical race theory.
00:04:17.400 So, Chris, you know,
00:04:19.040 I want to have a good answer for the leftists
00:04:21.960 who have now made,
00:04:23.780 it seems that they're speaking in unison
00:04:25.460 after spending weeks defending CRT,
00:04:27.600 now they're denying it.
00:04:28.580 And they are saying that,
00:04:30.060 almost by definition,
00:04:31.920 critical race theory
00:04:33.100 is only taught and discussed in law schools.
00:04:37.040 And that the things that are going on
00:04:38.820 in K-12,
00:04:40.220 maybe they're anti-white,
00:04:41.820 maybe they're bigoted,
00:04:43.260 maybe they're vicious and far left,
00:04:45.080 but whatever it is,
00:04:46.640 they're not the same thing
00:04:48.100 as critical race theory.
00:04:49.340 What do you say to people
00:04:51.180 who are making that argument?
00:04:52.820 Yeah, I mean, it's important.
00:04:53.960 Like all Marxist ideologies,
00:04:56.000 you have theory and praxis
00:04:57.800 or kind of the general ideas
00:04:59.700 and then the practical implementation
00:05:01.060 of those ideas.
00:05:02.140 That's embedded within critical race theory.
00:05:04.500 So what it looks like in a scholarly paper,
00:05:07.160 obviously they're not teaching kindergartners
00:05:08.680 how to read the Harvard Law Review,
00:05:10.340 but what they are teaching kindergartners
00:05:11.880 can be thought of as applied critical race theory.
00:05:15.420 So I'm just going to lay out some key terms,
00:05:17.420 and these are really kind of red flag terms
00:05:20.280 that if they're teaching in a K-12 school,
00:05:22.760 it's almost undoubtedly informed
00:05:24.740 by critical race theory
00:05:25.840 and using the principles of critical race theory.
00:05:28.820 So if you hear whiteness,
00:05:30.520 white privilege,
00:05:31.400 white fragility,
00:05:32.480 oppressor oppressed,
00:05:33.900 intersectionality,
00:05:34.760 systemic racism,
00:05:36.200 spirit murder,
00:05:36.960 equity,
00:05:37.440 anti-racism,
00:05:38.260 collective guilt,
00:05:39.020 or affinity spaces,
00:05:40.520 which are racially segregated
00:05:41.880 training programs
00:05:43.680 and educational lectures,
00:05:44.680 all of those key terms,
00:05:46.860 which you hear in hundreds,
00:05:48.480 if not thousands,
00:05:49.360 of school districts
00:05:50.100 across the country,
00:05:51.680 even if they don't say
00:05:52.600 under the heading critical race theory,
00:05:55.180 those are all ideas
00:05:56.060 that are derived
00:05:56.920 from critical race theory
00:05:58.060 and then applied in the classroom
00:05:59.820 through critical pedagogy.
00:06:01.620 Okay, so Chris,
00:06:02.640 back up a little bit
00:06:03.760 and run through those terms.
00:06:05.120 A lot of those terms
00:06:06.060 we may or may not have heard of,
00:06:07.720 but what do they mean?
00:06:08.640 Go through them one at a time.
00:06:10.980 Yeah, so I'll first take
00:06:12.100 the trio of terms
00:06:13.600 related to whiteness.
00:06:15.060 It's this idea
00:06:15.680 that people
00:06:16.860 of different racial categories
00:06:18.180 can be reduced
00:06:19.060 to a racial essence,
00:06:20.740 this almost metaphysical
00:06:22.180 property of whiteness,
00:06:23.480 the condition of being white.
00:06:26.020 And that includes,
00:06:27.120 by definition,
00:06:27.840 in their theories,
00:06:28.900 white privilege,
00:06:29.660 this idea that society
00:06:30.780 is tilted towards you,
00:06:32.760 you are embedded
00:06:33.620 by simply existing,
00:06:35.020 you have vested
00:06:35.940 property interests
00:06:36.920 and advantages
00:06:37.520 because of the color
00:06:38.560 of your skin,
00:06:38.980 and also white fragility.
00:06:40.840 The idea that any reaction
00:06:42.260 against something
00:06:43.160 like critical race theory
00:06:44.120 doesn't come from
00:06:45.360 principled agreement
00:06:46.220 or dissent,
00:06:47.040 it comes from
00:06:48.000 the kind of psychopathology
00:06:51.040 of being white,
00:06:52.360 that you are fragile,
00:06:54.180 that you are going to react
00:06:55.800 out of rage,
00:06:56.860 out of other sorts of emotions
00:06:58.060 to any challenge
00:06:59.500 to your identity.
00:07:01.000 And then I think
00:07:02.040 a second bucket,
00:07:02.900 you have to look at
00:07:03.580 oppressor and oppressed.
00:07:05.400 This is Marxian conflict theory,
00:07:07.560 you know,
00:07:08.500 derived in the 19th century,
00:07:10.840 but now looking at that
00:07:12.040 through a racial lens,
00:07:13.220 the idea that
00:07:13.820 the oppressors are not,
00:07:15.660 you know,
00:07:15.940 the capitalist landlords
00:07:17.120 and ownership class,
00:07:17.960 but actually a racial category
00:07:19.480 of whites.
00:07:20.500 The oppressed are
00:07:21.300 black Americans
00:07:22.860 and people of color.
00:07:24.480 And then intersectionality
00:07:25.720 basically takes
00:07:26.620 this kind of,
00:07:27.840 you know,
00:07:28.600 kind of shake them up approach
00:07:29.780 to this oppressor
00:07:30.560 and oppressed distinction,
00:07:31.940 saying all the different
00:07:32.860 racial categories,
00:07:34.160 religion,
00:07:34.940 language,
00:07:35.320 disability status,
00:07:36.980 your body mass index even,
00:07:38.760 are all vestiges
00:07:39.820 of this capitalist,
00:07:41.560 white supremacist patriarchy
00:07:43.120 that oppresses people.
00:07:45.680 And then this is then
00:07:47.280 the kind of antidote
00:07:49.280 that they profess
00:07:50.280 is something like equity
00:07:51.780 or anti-racism.
00:07:53.780 And Ibram Kendi,
00:07:55.120 who I think is the kind of
00:07:56.020 critical race guru
00:07:56.880 of our time,
00:07:57.960 defines anti-racism,
00:07:59.320 defines equity
00:07:59.980 in very simple terms.
00:08:00.940 He says,
00:08:01.740 the cure for past discrimination
00:08:03.260 is present discrimination.
00:08:05.380 The idea that being,
00:08:06.700 you know,
00:08:07.280 we don't want to have
00:08:08.260 equality under the law,
00:08:09.480 we don't want to have
00:08:10.120 colorblindness,
00:08:10.880 we don't want to have
00:08:11.400 meritocracy,
00:08:12.480 we want to have a legal regime
00:08:13.720 that favors people
00:08:14.800 on the basis of race,
00:08:16.120 that tips the scales
00:08:17.240 to someone on the basis
00:08:18.720 of race,
00:08:19.100 and even in many cases
00:08:21.140 in critical race theory,
00:08:22.360 actually abolishes
00:08:23.360 the system of capitalism,
00:08:25.020 redistributes land
00:08:25.900 and wealth
00:08:26.320 on the basis
00:08:26.960 of racial identity.
00:08:28.960 So let me break down,
00:08:30.020 because there are a number
00:08:30.600 of concepts in there,
00:08:31.820 like you mentioned equity,
00:08:33.960 now equity sounds
00:08:35.020 very similar to equality,
00:08:36.820 and equality is a good thing.
00:08:38.560 I mean,
00:08:38.800 we are a nation
00:08:40.820 that was built
00:08:41.880 under the principle
00:08:43.540 of equality under the law,
00:08:44.980 but when you hear
00:08:46.380 the critical race theorists
00:08:47.940 talking about equity,
00:08:49.560 they don't mean equality.
00:08:50.880 What's the difference
00:08:51.760 between the two?
00:08:52.640 It's a really key difference,
00:08:54.060 and I think that they've
00:08:54.860 adapted the term equity
00:08:56.320 really to play
00:08:58.180 a language game,
00:08:59.340 to trick most Americans
00:09:00.680 to think it's just
00:09:01.560 equality 2.0.
00:09:02.760 It's just a better version
00:09:04.240 of what we had before.
00:09:05.780 But the philosophical premise
00:09:08.020 of these ideas
00:09:09.480 is quite different.
00:09:11.380 Equality, as you said,
00:09:12.920 seeks to provide
00:09:14.060 equal protection
00:09:14.780 under the law.
00:09:15.860 It protects
00:09:16.760 the individual's right
00:09:17.840 to things like
00:09:18.440 private property,
00:09:19.500 to freedom of speech,
00:09:20.940 to political participation
00:09:22.320 and representation.
00:09:23.640 So equality says
00:09:24.860 you can't discriminate.
00:09:27.100 Equity says
00:09:27.860 you must discriminate.
00:09:29.060 Is that,
00:09:29.580 am I following this right?
00:09:30.880 That's right.
00:09:31.860 And the key difference
00:09:33.320 is that equality
00:09:34.060 looks to you
00:09:34.680 as an individual
00:09:35.320 and says that
00:09:36.180 the key unit
00:09:37.360 of measurement,
00:09:38.040 analysis,
00:09:38.440 and policy
00:09:38.900 is the individual
00:09:39.920 human being
00:09:40.580 who should be
00:09:41.260 protected from discrimination.
00:09:43.120 Equity says
00:09:43.740 we don't want to look
00:09:44.620 at society
00:09:45.140 as a collection
00:09:46.220 of individuals.
00:09:47.300 We want to look
00:09:47.920 at society
00:09:48.660 as a collection
00:09:49.880 of competing
00:09:50.680 racial groups.
00:09:51.920 And we need
00:09:52.640 to achieve
00:09:53.100 the equality
00:09:53.820 of outcomes
00:09:54.760 between those
00:09:55.840 racial groups
00:09:56.460 by whatever means
00:09:57.480 necessary,
00:09:58.360 including racial discrimination,
00:09:59.800 which they call
00:10:00.600 positive discrimination
00:10:02.140 or affirmative action,
00:10:03.820 which is different.
00:10:04.940 Let me stop you
00:10:05.880 because one thing
00:10:07.180 you said there
00:10:07.680 that I think
00:10:08.120 is really important
00:10:09.380 is you talk about
00:10:10.100 the language games
00:10:11.020 and in the world
00:10:12.020 of critical race theory,
00:10:13.560 I mean,
00:10:13.860 the left is very good
00:10:15.040 and creative
00:10:15.460 when it comes to language
00:10:16.440 and the similarity
00:10:18.280 between equity
00:10:19.140 and equality.
00:10:19.940 It's like,
00:10:20.200 well, gosh,
00:10:20.580 who could be
00:10:20.940 against equality,
00:10:21.820 which I guess means
00:10:22.740 everyone has to be
00:10:24.060 for what they call equity,
00:10:25.320 which is discriminate
00:10:26.160 based on race,
00:10:27.980 which is the exact opposite
00:10:29.300 of what we should be doing.
00:10:30.420 But they do a similar thing
00:10:31.900 with systematic racism.
00:10:35.620 And when you say,
00:10:37.840 so systematic racism
00:10:39.040 is different from racism.
00:10:41.280 Like nobody disputes,
00:10:43.100 racism is real.
00:10:44.000 There are bigots
00:10:44.580 in the world.
00:10:46.120 There are bigots,
00:10:47.720 there are white bigots,
00:10:48.860 there are black bigots,
00:10:49.800 there are bigots
00:10:51.020 of every race
00:10:51.700 and creed you can find.
00:10:53.520 Now,
00:10:54.720 that is a very different thing
00:10:56.160 from the notion
00:10:56.780 of systematic racism,
00:10:58.460 which is that the system
00:10:59.960 is fundamentally racist,
00:11:01.840 whether it's
00:11:02.320 the criminal justice system,
00:11:03.980 whether it is
00:11:04.960 the capitalist system,
00:11:06.280 whether it is
00:11:06.620 whatever the systems
00:11:08.260 we have in the country
00:11:09.620 that they are built
00:11:11.480 into their structure racist,
00:11:13.140 that's very different.
00:11:14.980 But the problem is
00:11:15.640 when someone's listening to it
00:11:17.120 and they hear
00:11:18.280 systematic racism,
00:11:19.420 they think,
00:11:19.780 well, yeah,
00:11:20.040 racism exists,
00:11:20.840 so that must be right.
00:11:22.200 And when they hear
00:11:22.740 someone denying it,
00:11:23.900 they say,
00:11:24.420 well, gosh,
00:11:25.080 that guy's a loon
00:11:25.820 because he says
00:11:26.320 there's no racism.
00:11:27.820 How much mileage
00:11:31.260 do they get
00:11:31.880 out of these language games
00:11:33.360 trying to make something
00:11:35.480 invidious
00:11:37.760 sound like it's innocuous?
00:11:40.140 Yeah, I mean,
00:11:40.820 they've been very successful
00:11:42.140 with it,
00:11:42.540 and I think that's why
00:11:43.260 we have to be very vigorous
00:11:45.080 in creating language
00:11:46.760 and also subverting
00:11:47.980 their language.
00:11:48.760 So systemic racism
00:11:49.920 is very interesting.
00:11:50.720 It achieves really
00:11:51.380 two objectives
00:11:52.220 for them simultaneously.
00:11:53.180 One, it assumes
00:11:55.220 that any disparity
00:11:56.160 in outcome
00:11:56.760 through any kind
00:11:57.700 of statistical measure
00:11:58.700 where things aren't equal
00:12:00.300 in the ways
00:12:00.800 that they want them
00:12:01.380 to be equal
00:12:02.000 kind of makes the case
00:12:06.520 for racism
00:12:07.120 as the original cause
00:12:08.800 of everything.
00:12:09.540 So what it tries to do
00:12:11.000 is basically say
00:12:11.760 that all of these systems
00:12:13.080 are racist
00:12:13.720 because they produce
00:12:15.040 unequal outcomes
00:12:16.160 by whatever measure
00:12:17.080 that they're measuring
00:12:17.860 of the day.
00:12:19.160 But the second thing
00:12:20.280 that it does
00:12:20.740 is it also implies
00:12:22.260 a solution.
00:12:23.240 If something
00:12:23.620 is systematically racist,
00:12:25.600 the only solution
00:12:26.340 is to tear down
00:12:27.360 that system.
00:12:28.460 So they try to put
00:12:29.280 this systematic lens,
00:12:30.780 institutional lens,
00:12:31.860 systemic lens
00:12:32.660 on all of the various categories,
00:12:35.140 whether it's the Constitution,
00:12:36.500 whether it's law,
00:12:37.340 whether it's private property,
00:12:38.840 whether it's the Civil Rights Act
00:12:39.840 and non-discrimination.
00:12:41.360 And then they try to say
00:12:42.180 basically the only solution
00:12:43.660 because we've tried
00:12:44.680 civil rights,
00:12:46.520 we've tried equality,
00:12:47.560 we've tried everything
00:12:48.400 that they said
00:12:50.000 was going to lead
00:12:50.620 to greater equality.
00:12:52.160 It all has to go.
00:12:53.520 And I think at heart,
00:12:54.600 if you look at critical race theory,
00:12:55.980 it is anti-constitutional.
00:12:58.260 It is explicitly
00:13:00.400 anti-14th Amendment,
00:13:01.840 the idea of equal protection
00:13:02.800 under the law.
00:13:03.780 It's explicitly anti-capitalist.
00:13:05.900 So our economic system
00:13:06.860 has to go.
00:13:07.880 And if you go on
00:13:08.760 down the line,
00:13:09.500 you find that people,
00:13:10.900 that the critical race theories
00:13:11.700 don't want to reform
00:13:12.980 the United States.
00:13:14.740 They want to overturn
00:13:16.660 the United States.
00:13:17.660 They want to kind of
00:13:18.840 fundamentally destroy
00:13:20.540 the institutions
00:13:21.180 in the hope that
00:13:22.000 something better will emerge.
00:13:24.480 So the question
00:13:25.500 that keeps striking me,
00:13:26.740 because I think
00:13:27.180 absolutely you're right,
00:13:28.900 Senator.
00:13:29.360 I mean,
00:13:29.600 you actually saw
00:13:31.020 this ideology develop
00:13:33.080 at the place
00:13:33.900 where it developed
00:13:34.600 in the years
00:13:35.400 that it was developing.
00:13:36.680 And Chris,
00:13:37.040 you've traced that out
00:13:37.780 very well.
00:13:38.560 And I agree.
00:13:39.520 I think the argument
00:13:40.320 now that's being made
00:13:41.320 on the left
00:13:41.860 that actually
00:13:43.060 when educators
00:13:44.560 in high schools
00:13:45.400 and middle schools
00:13:46.300 repeat all of the various
00:13:48.200 axioms of critical race theory,
00:13:49.940 that that somehow
00:13:50.500 is totally different
00:13:51.740 from critical race theory.
00:13:52.680 I think it's a kind
00:13:53.320 of weak argument.
00:13:54.080 It's actually
00:13:54.280 a nominalist argument
00:13:55.480 that basically
00:13:56.440 just tries to run away
00:13:57.580 from words
00:13:58.320 having any meaning at all
00:13:59.360 as general principles.
00:14:00.840 But I am still left
00:14:02.480 with this question.
00:14:03.900 How did critical race theory
00:14:05.860 developed in the 1980s
00:14:07.720 at Harvard Law School?
00:14:09.060 How did it go
00:14:09.840 from this kooky fringe movement
00:14:11.480 at one law school,
00:14:13.000 a very disreputable law school
00:14:14.760 as far as I'm concerned,
00:14:15.980 by the way?
00:14:17.480 But how did it go
00:14:18.760 from there
00:14:19.440 to every system
00:14:22.340 of education
00:14:22.880 in the country?
00:14:24.100 Yeah, I mean,
00:14:24.820 that's a big question.
00:14:26.160 And I think you can look
00:14:26.940 at a couple different
00:14:27.960 methods of transmission.
00:14:29.660 I think probably
00:14:30.280 the most important one
00:14:31.460 is graduate schools
00:14:32.520 of education.
00:14:33.500 So there's a large body
00:14:35.600 of academic research
00:14:36.480 that they think of
00:14:37.240 as the critical turn
00:14:38.300 in education.
00:14:39.200 So taking critical
00:14:40.700 legal studies,
00:14:41.540 taking critical theory,
00:14:42.600 taking critical race theory,
00:14:43.780 and applying it
00:14:45.080 to education.
00:14:45.880 And the idea being
00:14:46.540 that if you can shape
00:14:48.500 a curriculum
00:14:49.080 and shape a pedagogy
00:14:50.580 to apply the ideas
00:14:52.100 of critical race theory
00:14:52.880 to kids,
00:14:53.580 you're going to bring up
00:14:54.520 a generation
00:14:55.100 that can solve
00:14:55.800 some of these problems
00:14:56.880 such as white privilege
00:14:58.240 and white fragility,
00:14:59.740 systemic racism,
00:15:01.280 et cetera.
00:15:02.300 And if you look
00:15:03.520 at graduate schools
00:15:04.700 of education,
00:15:05.600 I mean,
00:15:05.860 they are steeped
00:15:06.860 in this stuff.
00:15:08.100 The kind of foundational
00:15:09.820 textbook in most
00:15:10.800 graduate schools
00:15:11.240 of education
00:15:11.720 is the pedagogy
00:15:13.640 of the oppressed
00:15:14.340 by the critical pedagogist
00:15:15.800 Paulo Freira.
00:15:17.100 And then they take
00:15:17.980 all of these ideas
00:15:19.120 from critical theory
00:15:20.360 and then do essentially
00:15:21.880 critical race theory,
00:15:23.320 the praxis portion,
00:15:24.760 the practice.
00:15:25.940 And then you have,
00:15:26.640 I don't know,
00:15:27.240 thousands or maybe
00:15:28.120 tens of thousands
00:15:28.920 of people
00:15:30.500 who are graduating
00:15:31.220 from these schools.
00:15:32.280 This is really
00:15:32.720 the only framework
00:15:33.620 that they know.
00:15:34.580 And they're being put
00:15:35.380 into place
00:15:36.040 in school districts
00:15:36.760 around the country.
00:15:37.380 And one thing
00:15:37.720 that I've seen
00:15:38.340 is that older teachers
00:15:40.040 are not teaching this.
00:15:42.080 Older teachers
00:15:42.600 are in many cases
00:15:43.420 the people
00:15:43.800 who leak documents
00:15:44.740 to me
00:15:45.220 because they're saying
00:15:46.120 this is tearing
00:15:46.800 our institutions apart.
00:15:48.360 But if you're under 35
00:15:49.640 and you're a new
00:15:51.160 public school teacher
00:15:52.040 or within the first
00:15:52.760 five, ten years
00:15:53.340 of your career,
00:15:54.860 this is the water
00:15:56.240 that you swim in.
00:15:57.060 This is what you're teaching.
00:15:58.540 This is how you're designing
00:15:59.560 your curricula.
00:16:00.540 And then you have
00:16:01.020 a network
00:16:01.620 of non-profits,
00:16:04.260 of critical race theory
00:16:05.680 based training programs
00:16:07.500 and diversity lecturers
00:16:08.540 and contractors
00:16:09.440 that have created
00:16:10.740 an economic ecosystem
00:16:11.960 where they can
00:16:12.660 attach themselves
00:16:13.600 to public institutions
00:16:14.520 like school districts
00:16:15.400 and then push
00:16:16.520 these ideas
00:16:17.180 from that fringe
00:16:18.900 all the way
00:16:20.060 into, in some cases,
00:16:22.160 a kindergarten classroom.
00:16:24.080 And I think it,
00:16:24.920 you know,
00:16:25.520 in a way,
00:16:26.520 you have to give
00:16:27.040 these folks respect.
00:16:28.560 They've had a 30-year plan
00:16:30.300 to get their ideas
00:16:31.240 into the institutions.
00:16:32.780 And in many ways,
00:16:33.880 they're just on the cusp
00:16:35.060 of success
00:16:36.160 unless we stop them.
00:16:37.320 So, Chris,
00:16:38.480 one very useful thing
00:16:39.500 I think you've laid out
00:16:40.580 for folks listening
00:16:41.800 or watching the pod.
00:16:43.140 If you're a parent,
00:16:44.180 if you have kids,
00:16:45.080 Heidi and I,
00:16:45.640 our girls are 10 and 13.
00:16:47.840 If you're looking
00:16:48.760 at their curriculum
00:16:49.520 in school,
00:16:50.380 there are buzzwords
00:16:51.340 that you want
00:16:51.860 to be looking for.
00:16:52.740 Things like white privilege
00:16:54.420 or whiteness
00:16:55.200 or white fragility,
00:16:56.320 which are weird concepts.
00:16:58.200 Things like anti-racism,
00:17:01.240 which I have to say,
00:17:02.140 by the way,
00:17:03.260 I have to step back
00:17:04.900 and marvel
00:17:05.420 at the cleverness
00:17:06.900 of the propaganda
00:17:08.020 because anti-racism,
00:17:10.540 I think,
00:17:10.880 absolutely I'm anti-racism.
00:17:12.860 Racism is horrible
00:17:14.420 and evil and bigotry.
00:17:15.820 And so, of course,
00:17:16.380 I'm against that.
00:17:18.460 But anti-racism
00:17:20.300 is a code word
00:17:21.140 that doesn't actually mean
00:17:22.520 being against racism.
00:17:24.300 It means being a racist
00:17:26.820 explicitly
00:17:28.840 and discriminating,
00:17:30.340 number one,
00:17:30.880 against white kids,
00:17:32.080 discriminating,
00:17:33.480 number two,
00:17:35.960 viewing the system
00:17:37.700 in a way
00:17:39.400 that it is inherently biased
00:17:41.240 and wanting to tear it down.
00:17:43.000 And, you know,
00:17:43.200 we talked a minute ago
00:17:44.080 about how all of this
00:17:45.820 originated in Marxism.
00:17:48.320 What's interesting
00:17:49.280 is it didn't just
00:17:50.060 originate in Marxism.
00:17:51.320 The end point
00:17:52.240 that this curriculum
00:17:53.880 is designed
00:17:54.740 to teach the kids
00:17:55.580 to go to
00:17:56.280 is Marxism itself.
00:17:57.880 It is designed
00:17:58.580 to tear down capitalism
00:18:00.460 and replace it
00:18:01.420 with communism,
00:18:02.100 replace it with Marxism
00:18:03.460 with government power,
00:18:05.860 although on racial lines.
00:18:07.620 Is that a fair characterization?
00:18:10.940 Yeah, I think it is.
00:18:12.700 And one of the things
00:18:13.420 that I've noticed
00:18:13.880 in my research,
00:18:14.800 you look at critical race theory
00:18:16.840 and you look at their literature,
00:18:17.980 you look at their academic work,
00:18:19.040 and they're always focused
00:18:21.200 on pointing out problems.
00:18:22.720 And I've always asked
00:18:23.440 in the back of my mind,
00:18:24.060 well, what do you want?
00:18:25.160 What are you proposing?
00:18:26.220 What kind of policy solution
00:18:28.200 are you suggesting
00:18:29.160 would solve these problems?
00:18:30.620 And in every case,
00:18:32.300 it is active discrimination,
00:18:35.040 this idea that equality
00:18:37.440 of outcomes
00:18:38.040 must be achieved
00:18:38.820 through government action
00:18:40.040 and government force.
00:18:41.280 It's skepticism
00:18:42.080 about private property,
00:18:43.540 saying that private property
00:18:44.620 actually is a form
00:18:45.860 of whiteness,
00:18:47.140 that actually private property
00:18:48.860 and white identity
00:18:49.580 are inextricably linked.
00:18:50.940 And in order to reduce
00:18:51.960 whiteness
00:18:52.600 and white privilege,
00:18:53.720 you have to actually
00:18:54.560 change property arrangements.
00:18:56.120 And then it's
00:18:57.540 someone like Ibram Kendi again
00:18:59.240 who proposes
00:18:59.920 a federal department
00:19:00.960 of anti-racism
00:19:01.860 that's unaccountable
00:19:02.720 to voters,
00:19:03.680 unaccountable to Congress,
00:19:04.840 unaccountable to the executive.
00:19:06.580 And what would
00:19:07.460 that department do?
00:19:08.820 It would have the power
00:19:10.120 to veto,
00:19:11.040 nullify,
00:19:11.480 or abolish any law
00:19:12.580 at any level of government
00:19:13.640 and silence political speech
00:19:15.580 that's not deemed anti-racist.
00:19:17.480 So when you put
00:19:18.240 all of these
00:19:18.700 disparate parts together,
00:19:20.400 you have,
00:19:21.640 again,
00:19:22.500 kind of the end
00:19:23.320 of private property,
00:19:24.400 you have redistribution
00:19:25.260 of land and wealth
00:19:25.980 along racial lines,
00:19:27.080 and then you have
00:19:27.760 an omnipotent
00:19:28.720 federal bureaucracy
00:19:29.480 with the power
00:19:30.500 to suppress speech
00:19:31.460 and the power
00:19:31.900 to invalidate law
00:19:33.080 outside of the confines
00:19:34.860 of our federalist system.
00:19:36.180 It starts looking
00:19:37.400 a lot like a Marxist
00:19:39.300 20th century style state.
00:19:41.060 And you should keep in mind-
00:19:42.440 Look, I gotta say
00:19:42.840 that as you describe
00:19:44.480 the federal department
00:19:46.260 of anti-racism,
00:19:47.320 that is terrifying.
00:19:48.640 And it's not just Marxist,
00:19:49.740 it's profoundly anti-democratic
00:19:51.440 to have some government
00:19:53.060 bureaucrat
00:19:53.700 with the ability
00:19:54.300 to set aside any law
00:19:55.660 he or she doesn't like
00:19:57.380 and to silence
00:19:59.600 and censor speech.
00:20:02.060 But this nonsense
00:20:03.620 is not just being taught
00:20:05.000 in the schools,
00:20:05.640 although being taught
00:20:06.220 in the schools
00:20:06.640 is dangerous.
00:20:08.380 It's also being taught
00:20:09.520 in corporate America.
00:20:10.300 It's also being taught
00:20:11.180 in the federal government.
00:20:11.920 It's also being taught
00:20:13.140 in the military.
00:20:13.800 Is that right?
00:20:15.120 Yeah, that's right.
00:20:15.700 I've reported
00:20:16.200 on all of those domains.
00:20:17.660 I mean,
00:20:18.100 started last year
00:20:19.080 with a series of reports
00:20:19.840 I did on the federal government.
00:20:21.440 So give us some examples.
00:20:23.060 Yeah, so I'll give you
00:20:23.900 some examples.
00:20:25.000 The example that I like
00:20:26.840 to tell is
00:20:27.380 Sandia National Laboratories,
00:20:29.520 which is a federally
00:20:30.660 affiliated laboratory
00:20:31.660 that designs
00:20:32.380 America's nuclear arsenal.
00:20:34.440 So the actual
00:20:35.020 nuclear weapons
00:20:36.440 that we have
00:20:37.560 to keep our country safe.
00:20:38.960 They sent
00:20:39.780 their white male executives
00:20:41.040 to a three-day
00:20:41.960 white male privilege
00:20:43.480 re-education camp.
00:20:45.060 They sent them
00:20:45.760 to a resort
00:20:46.660 down in New Mexico
00:20:47.560 and they had them
00:20:49.040 deconstruct
00:20:50.120 their white male identities.
00:20:51.080 They had them
00:20:51.840 read and recite
00:20:53.040 white male privilege statements.
00:20:55.120 Then they had them
00:20:55.660 write letters of apology
00:20:57.560 to fictitious women
00:20:58.820 and people of color.
00:21:00.100 The idea is that
00:21:01.120 breaking down
00:21:02.440 their identity
00:21:03.320 in order for them
00:21:04.220 to be
00:21:04.900 kind of
00:21:05.420 softer
00:21:06.660 and more open
00:21:07.460 to absorbing
00:21:08.200 this ideology.
00:21:09.480 And
00:21:09.600 some of these things,
00:21:11.280 if you look at them,
00:21:11.920 you say,
00:21:12.120 well, you know,
00:21:12.720 this is one crazy training.
00:21:14.360 This is
00:21:14.800 something that was
00:21:16.800 probably well-intentioned,
00:21:17.740 but it went awry.
00:21:18.440 But then I started
00:21:20.000 doing reporting
00:21:20.700 at, I think,
00:21:21.680 now more than
00:21:22.100 a dozen federal agencies.
00:21:23.620 I'm sure it's now
00:21:24.180 almost every federal agency,
00:21:25.800 including very important places,
00:21:27.440 like the Treasury Department,
00:21:29.040 like Homeland Security,
00:21:30.260 like the FBI,
00:21:31.440 like West Point Military Academy.
00:21:33.100 All of these
00:21:33.920 institutions
00:21:35.820 that most Americans
00:21:36.780 had faith in
00:21:37.960 have been
00:21:39.020 really,
00:21:40.400 really infected
00:21:42.220 with this ideology
00:21:43.140 and really
00:21:43.900 have started
00:21:44.920 to adopt
00:21:45.620 it as their own.
00:21:46.840 And I think
00:21:47.200 over the short term,
00:21:48.640 it makes for
00:21:49.180 a splashy headline,
00:21:50.480 but over the long term,
00:21:51.740 it's something
00:21:52.080 that is
00:21:52.420 very dangerous
00:21:53.500 for our country.
00:21:54.960 So, Chris,
00:21:55.400 let me play devil's advocate
00:21:56.520 for a second here.
00:21:59.280 This past week,
00:22:00.900 General Mark Milley,
00:22:01.800 who's the chairman
00:22:02.200 of the Joint Chiefs of Staff,
00:22:04.100 was testifying
00:22:05.080 in Congress
00:22:05.720 and made a lot of news.
00:22:06.980 And I know
00:22:07.660 General Milley well.
00:22:08.720 I like him.
00:22:09.860 He's a Princeton grad.
00:22:11.080 He actually
00:22:11.500 is the only
00:22:12.540 general officer
00:22:13.280 in the military
00:22:13.800 that is a Princeton grad.
00:22:14.920 And I got to know him
00:22:16.400 when he was
00:22:16.800 the commanding officer
00:22:17.640 of Fort Hood in Texas,
00:22:19.520 when he was
00:22:20.080 a three-star general,
00:22:20.960 before he had gone up
00:22:22.180 to be chairman
00:22:22.780 of the Joint Chiefs.
00:22:23.680 But General Milley
00:22:24.600 kind of vented
00:22:25.840 and he was under
00:22:27.620 questioning in the House
00:22:28.680 and he said
00:22:29.540 he was offended
00:22:30.420 that people were
00:22:32.040 criticizing the military
00:22:33.440 as woke.
00:22:34.880 And the argument
00:22:35.540 he gave is,
00:22:36.620 I've read Karl Marx,
00:22:37.780 but that doesn't
00:22:38.400 make me a communist.
00:22:39.680 So,
00:22:40.440 what's the response
00:22:42.200 to, well,
00:22:43.220 what's wrong
00:22:43.760 with reading
00:22:44.140 some of this stuff?
00:22:45.600 Yeah,
00:22:45.900 I mean,
00:22:46.280 there's a really
00:22:47.120 important distinction,
00:22:48.140 right?
00:22:48.380 It's like,
00:22:48.880 I read a lot
00:22:49.440 of critical race theory.
00:22:50.340 I think it's important
00:22:51.100 to read.
00:22:51.540 I think it's totally
00:22:52.200 fine to read
00:22:52.940 in the context
00:22:53.620 of a college classroom.
00:22:55.280 But there's
00:22:55.820 two different ways
00:22:57.520 you can approach it.
00:22:58.180 You can approach it
00:22:58.820 as one perspective
00:23:00.360 among many
00:23:01.380 where you have
00:23:01.880 a reasoned debate,
00:23:02.880 where you look
00:23:03.260 at its flaws,
00:23:04.020 you look at its benefits,
00:23:05.440 and then you try
00:23:06.180 to come to a better
00:23:07.060 understanding of the world
00:23:08.040 by comparing
00:23:08.900 a variety of subjects.
00:23:10.600 The other way
00:23:11.240 is to really use it
00:23:12.160 as a form
00:23:13.100 of indoctrination
00:23:13.900 to compelling people
00:23:15.320 to believe,
00:23:16.220 to forcing them
00:23:17.120 to believe in this,
00:23:17.980 to presenting it
00:23:18.640 not as one perspective
00:23:19.600 among many,
00:23:20.760 but as the truth,
00:23:21.840 as dogma.
00:23:23.020 So,
00:23:23.360 there's a difference
00:23:24.080 between, say,
00:23:24.900 West Point
00:23:25.480 having a survey class
00:23:27.060 of, you know,
00:23:28.620 different views
00:23:29.660 of race in America
00:23:30.980 and including this
00:23:32.100 among many different views
00:23:33.560 and also reading
00:23:34.720 Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
00:23:36.840 and Booker T. Washington
00:23:38.120 and Frederick Douglass.
00:23:39.220 And in that context,
00:23:40.380 a survey class,
00:23:41.300 this could be
00:23:42.200 reasonably included
00:23:44.160 as among the views
00:23:45.660 there are.
00:23:46.200 That's very different
00:23:47.000 from, say,
00:23:48.140 a training program
00:23:49.300 that you're forcing
00:23:50.360 young 18, 19,
00:23:51.980 20-year-old
00:23:52.860 soldiers and sailors
00:23:54.200 and airmen and marines
00:23:55.460 to complete
00:23:56.440 this training program
00:23:57.540 in order to be able
00:23:58.420 to serve in the military.
00:24:00.420 Yeah, that's right.
00:24:01.100 And I think
00:24:01.720 from some of the documents
00:24:02.760 that I've seen
00:24:03.780 from within
00:24:04.280 the United States military,
00:24:05.320 it's not presenting it
00:24:06.920 as a survey.
00:24:07.700 It's not presenting it
00:24:08.400 as one perspective
00:24:09.080 of many.
00:24:09.640 It's saying,
00:24:10.000 this is the ideology
00:24:11.560 of the U.S. Army
00:24:12.820 or the Marine Corps
00:24:13.740 or West Point Military Academy.
00:24:15.880 These are the books
00:24:16.580 you need to read.
00:24:17.480 It's Robin DiAngelo.
00:24:19.520 It's Ibram Kendi.
00:24:20.640 It's this new gospel
00:24:21.840 of critical race theory
00:24:22.880 that they're presenting
00:24:23.540 as this kind of thing
00:24:25.680 that you need to believe,
00:24:27.360 not, again,
00:24:28.320 a competing perspective.
00:24:29.380 I think it's also
00:24:30.160 very different
00:24:30.760 when you're talking
00:24:31.700 about kids,
00:24:32.460 when you're talking
00:24:32.920 about a K-12 education.
00:24:35.320 Where, again,
00:24:36.660 it's different.
00:24:37.220 It's presented
00:24:37.720 not as an academic subject,
00:24:40.640 but it's presented
00:24:41.560 as a kind of method
00:24:42.620 of indoctrination.
00:24:43.680 And I think that's why
00:24:44.420 you're seeing millions
00:24:45.040 of parents rise up
00:24:46.380 to say,
00:24:46.680 hey, look,
00:24:47.460 we want to have
00:24:48.480 a discussion
00:24:48.940 about these issues.
00:24:49.860 We want to work
00:24:50.920 on these issues.
00:24:51.740 But what we don't want
00:24:52.740 is a one-sided,
00:24:54.060 manipulative,
00:24:55.100 kind of Marxism-based
00:24:56.580 curriculum
00:24:57.000 that is being forced
00:24:58.400 down our children's throats
00:24:59.560 despite the fact
00:25:01.300 that the parents,
00:25:02.440 the people
00:25:02.740 who actually are invested
00:25:03.880 in these schools
00:25:04.460 and pay for these schools
00:25:05.380 disagree with this stuff
00:25:07.120 and it violates
00:25:07.800 their conscience.
00:25:08.900 And it's worth
00:25:09.400 pointing out,
00:25:10.060 a third-grade classroom
00:25:11.260 is not exactly
00:25:12.140 a free marketplace
00:25:12.960 of ideas.
00:25:14.200 You know,
00:25:14.660 whatever you might have
00:25:15.640 in a graduate seminar
00:25:16.580 or even undergraduate,
00:25:18.980 really,
00:25:19.660 what you're teaching
00:25:21.100 to eight-year-olds
00:25:22.120 is this is true
00:25:23.580 and this is false,
00:25:24.460 right?
00:25:24.580 You're giving them
00:25:25.080 rudimentary education
00:25:26.660 so that they can think
00:25:27.740 later on in more complex ways.
00:25:29.220 And I think you're
00:25:29.720 absolutely right, Chris.
00:25:30.700 This is not,
00:25:32.380 though there are many
00:25:33.360 defenders of CRT
00:25:34.520 who are trying to pretend
00:25:35.680 that this is just
00:25:36.320 one idea among many
00:25:37.220 in a free marketplace
00:25:37.900 of ideas,
00:25:38.480 it's not how it's being taught.
00:25:40.260 And as you also point out,
00:25:42.560 Senator,
00:25:43.260 the fact that this has made it
00:25:44.840 into the U.S. military,
00:25:46.500 the fact that officers
00:25:47.520 are being told
00:25:48.140 to imbibe this stuff
00:25:49.320 and are being encouraged
00:25:50.520 to treat it
00:25:51.620 as the gospel truth
00:25:52.620 rather than just
00:25:53.940 as some crazy idea
00:25:54.880 among many,
00:25:55.540 the fact that this has
00:25:56.320 infiltrated corporate boardrooms,
00:25:57.860 that this has infiltrated
00:25:59.060 so many institutions,
00:26:00.700 in our country,
00:26:01.860 it does make you
00:26:02.960 almost lose hope.
00:26:03.980 And I wonder,
00:26:04.740 is there any glimmer
00:26:05.800 of hope here?
00:26:06.580 It's very strange
00:26:07.620 that I think probably
00:26:09.180 the majority of Americans
00:26:10.300 disagree with this
00:26:11.380 kind of stuff.
00:26:12.440 You see a lot of parents
00:26:13.520 rushing to their school boards
00:26:14.700 and yet all of the
00:26:16.000 powerful institutions
00:26:17.220 seem uniformly
00:26:18.840 to be pushing it.
00:26:20.480 Yeah, I'm an optimist.
00:26:21.780 I'm very hopeful about this.
00:26:23.060 And I think that
00:26:23.820 what I'm seeing
00:26:25.060 on the ground,
00:26:25.740 what I'm seeing
00:26:26.380 in hundreds of emails
00:26:27.420 every day
00:26:28.020 is people,
00:26:29.060 are people from
00:26:29.700 all walks of life,
00:26:30.820 people from a variety
00:26:31.480 of racial backgrounds,
00:26:32.600 people from all over
00:26:33.120 the country
00:26:33.620 that are starting
00:26:34.840 to rise up to say,
00:26:36.080 wait a minute,
00:26:36.920 I don't want this
00:26:37.600 in my kid's school.
00:26:38.760 I don't want this
00:26:39.260 in my church.
00:26:39.900 I don't want this
00:26:40.300 in my local government.
00:26:41.500 I don't want this
00:26:42.200 being pushed
00:26:42.800 by the U.S. Congress.
00:26:44.020 And what I think
00:26:45.160 we're seeing every day
00:26:46.340 is a new video
00:26:47.280 of hundreds of parents
00:26:48.480 showing up
00:26:48.880 at a school board meeting,
00:26:49.760 getting activated,
00:26:51.000 really pushing
00:26:51.620 on this issue.
00:26:52.860 And, you know,
00:26:53.440 I talk with a lot
00:26:54.060 of local
00:26:54.860 and state legislators
00:26:55.960 and they're telling me
00:26:56.960 that when they're out
00:26:57.640 there in their districts,
00:26:59.140 this is the number
00:27:00.120 one issue
00:27:00.620 that they get
00:27:01.200 when they're doorbelling
00:27:02.360 or going door-to-door
00:27:03.260 or speaking at events.
00:27:04.540 People really care
00:27:05.480 about this.
00:27:06.380 I know that some people
00:27:07.320 are saying this has
00:27:08.180 the same kind of energy
00:27:09.340 as the 94
00:27:11.080 Congressional Revolution
00:27:12.640 or 2010,
00:27:14.260 the Tea Party Revolution.
00:27:15.800 There's something
00:27:16.600 happening
00:27:17.120 in the grassroots
00:27:18.060 of this country
00:27:19.000 that people
00:27:20.140 are being energized
00:27:21.120 by this.
00:27:21.800 They're being focused.
00:27:22.620 They're being engaged
00:27:23.300 in many cases
00:27:24.240 for the first time
00:27:24.900 in politics.
00:27:26.180 And I don't think
00:27:27.180 the institutional responses
00:27:28.240 have been,
00:27:29.140 frankly,
00:27:29.340 very strong.
00:27:30.340 You see all of the media
00:27:31.400 running cover.
00:27:32.180 You see them playing
00:27:32.760 language games.
00:27:33.600 You see them retreating
00:27:34.500 from critical race theory.
00:27:35.980 None of those strategies
00:27:37.080 are going to hold
00:27:37.740 because people know
00:27:38.900 what's being taught
00:27:39.640 to their kids.
00:27:40.720 People have a visceral
00:27:41.820 and intuitive understanding
00:27:43.040 of what this ideology
00:27:44.120 is trying to accomplish.
00:27:45.660 And we're seeing
00:27:46.720 a critical race theory revolt
00:27:48.740 all over this country
00:27:50.300 that gives me
00:27:50.920 an immense amount of hope.
00:27:52.760 And I think that,
00:27:53.480 look,
00:27:53.620 if Brooklyn and Berkeley
00:27:55.720 want to do critical race theory
00:27:57.100 in their K-12 schools,
00:27:58.180 that's fine.
00:27:59.000 That's their right.
00:28:00.080 But I think we're looking
00:28:00.940 at somewhere between
00:28:01.920 70 and 80 percent
00:28:03.160 of Americans
00:28:03.720 that we could rally
00:28:04.660 into opposition
00:28:05.740 on this issue.
00:28:06.920 And I think that's
00:28:07.580 a starting point
00:28:08.180 for incredible success.
00:28:10.780 So, Chris,
00:28:11.080 if someone wants
00:28:11.680 to learn more,
00:28:13.040 where do we go?
00:28:14.340 Where can someone go
00:28:15.600 to learn more
00:28:16.480 about what this is,
00:28:18.560 where it's being taught,
00:28:20.140 and what to do about it?
00:28:21.500 Yeah, I've put together
00:28:22.880 a critical race theory
00:28:23.900 briefing book.
00:28:24.640 So if you just search Google
00:28:25.740 Christopher Rufo
00:28:26.700 critical race theory
00:28:27.520 briefing book
00:28:28.180 or CRT briefing book,
00:28:30.120 I've provided anything
00:28:31.540 that you'll need
00:28:32.380 to get started
00:28:33.140 to engage on this issue,
00:28:34.120 whether you're a parent,
00:28:35.400 whether you're
00:28:35.660 a local legislator,
00:28:36.840 whether you care about this
00:28:37.820 in the workplace.
00:28:38.800 So I have definitions.
00:28:39.820 I have key concepts
00:28:41.040 and quotations.
00:28:41.880 I have stories
00:28:42.620 about where it's being taught
00:28:43.660 in schools.
00:28:45.020 I also have suggestions
00:28:46.180 for language
00:28:46.900 that's successful
00:28:47.740 in winning on this issue,
00:28:48.860 as well as some
00:28:49.980 model legislation.
00:28:51.060 So that's where
00:28:52.500 I'd recommend you go.
00:28:53.740 You can always reach out to me.
00:28:55.040 I'm happy to help
00:28:55.720 put you in connection
00:28:57.100 with other people
00:28:58.040 that are working
00:28:58.420 on this issue.
00:28:59.400 I think it's just
00:29:00.500 a tremendously
00:29:01.020 important thing right now,
00:29:02.500 and I encourage everyone
00:29:03.340 to get involved.
00:29:04.100 Certainly is.
00:29:04.880 Chris, we have got
00:29:06.220 to get to the mailbag now,
00:29:07.200 so I will not have you
00:29:08.880 sit around and answer
00:29:09.940 the difficult,
00:29:11.300 impossible questions
00:29:12.460 from our listeners,
00:29:13.580 though I'm sure
00:29:13.900 you could do it
00:29:14.480 because you really
00:29:15.520 have done such a service
00:29:17.300 with your writing
00:29:18.260 over at City Journal
00:29:19.120 and your work
00:29:20.280 on really making
00:29:21.400 this issue
00:29:22.340 come into stark relief.
00:29:23.880 Christopher Ruffo,
00:29:24.640 thank you for being
00:29:25.140 on the show.
00:29:26.280 Thank you.
00:29:27.580 Before we get
00:29:28.620 to the mailbag,
00:29:29.560 I am so pleased
00:29:30.640 to announce
00:29:31.200 that we are now
00:29:32.280 finalizing the dates
00:29:33.800 for Verdict Live.
00:29:35.840 We are taking
00:29:36.400 Verdict with Ted Cruz
00:29:37.420 on the road
00:29:38.380 in partnership
00:29:38.980 with the Young
00:29:39.480 America's Foundation.
00:29:41.060 We will be coming
00:29:41.780 to a school near you
00:29:42.760 or maybe even
00:29:43.540 to your school,
00:29:44.380 but you will need
00:29:45.500 to request that.
00:29:47.380 So you can go
00:29:47.740 to yaf.org
00:29:50.160 slash verdict
00:29:51.360 and apply
00:29:52.420 to have your school
00:29:53.340 be one of the spots.
00:29:54.940 Deadline to apply
00:29:55.480 is August 18th.
00:29:57.000 Senator,
00:29:57.700 we're taking this thing live.
00:29:59.080 We're going to go
00:29:59.440 meet people in real life.
00:30:01.280 We're headed out
00:30:02.520 on the road
00:30:03.060 to college campuses.
00:30:04.160 We'll have an auditorium.
00:30:05.660 We'll film it live.
00:30:06.960 We will have,
00:30:07.980 hopefully,
00:30:09.240 some friendly questions,
00:30:10.600 some hostile questions,
00:30:11.740 and it's really
00:30:13.040 up to the listeners
00:30:14.220 of Verdict,
00:30:15.280 where we should go.
00:30:16.600 You know,
00:30:16.820 should we go to places
00:30:17.920 that are oases of truth
00:30:20.980 and have people
00:30:21.760 that they're used
00:30:22.780 to hearing about
00:30:23.940 life, liberty,
00:30:25.660 and the pursuit
00:30:26.100 of happiness,
00:30:26.580 or do we go to
00:30:28.060 places of communist
00:30:29.600 indoctrination
00:30:30.560 where we're going
00:30:31.680 behind the Iron Curtain
00:30:33.000 and we might have to
00:30:34.900 have a subversive effort
00:30:36.260 to come in?
00:30:37.360 I don't know.
00:30:38.060 We're asking you,
00:30:39.140 the reader,
00:30:39.660 let us know
00:30:40.540 where you think
00:30:42.180 Verdict should be filmed
00:30:43.700 and we're going
00:30:44.480 to have fun regardless.
00:30:45.520 We absolutely are.
00:30:46.740 We could even head
00:30:47.380 to the University
00:30:48.060 of East Berlin,
00:30:49.040 also known as Berkeley
00:30:50.420 in California.
00:30:52.000 There are a lot of schools
00:30:53.100 we could go to
00:30:53.600 and hopefully we'll be able
00:30:54.300 to do a combination.
00:30:55.480 So you can apply
00:30:56.540 to host us
00:30:58.160 at your school.
00:30:58.720 That will be
00:30:59.020 yaf.org
00:30:59.900 slash verdict.
00:31:00.920 Get those applications
00:31:01.740 in by August 18th.
00:31:03.380 That is the deadline
00:31:04.360 and we're going to be
00:31:05.060 looking forward to it.
00:31:06.360 And now,
00:31:06.840 before we see you live,
00:31:07.800 we will answer your questions
00:31:09.140 in the mailbag.
00:31:10.140 All right.
00:31:10.480 This question,
00:31:11.760 completely out of left field,
00:31:12.820 but it's from our colleague
00:31:14.300 on this show
00:31:14.960 who is sitting right behind you,
00:31:16.640 Real Truth Cactus,
00:31:17.860 who writes,
00:31:19.040 what are some conservative arguments
00:31:20.880 for environmental practices?
00:31:23.300 We all hear the sun monster
00:31:24.640 is going to kill us,
00:31:25.700 but as conservatives,
00:31:27.260 do we not also wish
00:31:28.680 to conserve our planet?
00:31:30.420 Where is the balance?
00:31:32.400 I think that's a great question
00:31:33.800 and I think a lot of conservatives
00:31:35.180 are really timid
00:31:36.680 when it comes to discussing
00:31:37.900 environmental issues.
00:31:39.320 All of us breathe.
00:31:41.060 All of us drink water.
00:31:42.760 All of us presumably,
00:31:44.320 and you're drinking,
00:31:45.320 I think, coffee or vodka,
00:31:47.020 whatever you're drinking right there.
00:31:47.980 Both, actually.
00:31:49.740 There you go.
00:31:50.880 But, you know,
00:31:51.420 water is at its base.
00:31:52.980 Look, all of us would like
00:31:54.140 for our kids
00:31:54.760 to be able to breathe
00:31:55.780 and drink water.
00:31:56.580 We'd like for our grandkids
00:31:57.540 to be able to breathe
00:31:58.680 and drink water.
00:32:01.340 Protecting the environment,
00:32:02.780 you know,
00:32:02.940 you look at Teddy Roosevelt,
00:32:05.000 who was one of the first
00:32:06.400 great conservationists
00:32:07.720 and environmentalists.
00:32:09.000 We have a responsibility
00:32:10.060 to protect the environment.
00:32:11.460 What does that mean?
00:32:12.580 That means fighting pollution.
00:32:13.900 Fighting pollution
00:32:14.540 is a good and noble role.
00:32:18.740 It is an important
00:32:19.520 governmental function.
00:32:21.700 We don't want to see
00:32:22.520 factories pouring
00:32:23.940 a bunch of gunk
00:32:25.340 into the rivers
00:32:26.060 or into the air
00:32:26.960 that make people sick.
00:32:29.100 All of that is legitimate.
00:32:31.020 It's not where
00:32:31.940 today's environmentalist movement is.
00:32:34.500 Today's environmentalist movement
00:32:36.100 is focused on shutting down production.
00:32:38.820 So it's not,
00:32:40.180 if the test is,
00:32:41.640 is the air cleaner
00:32:42.520 and is the water cleaner,
00:32:43.840 then you can actually tell
00:32:45.440 an amazing story
00:32:47.080 because as American ingenuity
00:32:51.100 has moved forward,
00:32:52.260 we have cleaned the air
00:32:53.160 and cleaned the water dramatically.
00:32:55.220 Last year,
00:32:56.300 the year 2020,
00:32:58.340 what country had
00:32:59.460 the greatest reduction
00:33:00.620 of carbon emissions
00:33:01.540 of any country on earth?
00:33:03.180 Answer,
00:33:04.060 the United States of America.
00:33:05.220 By far,
00:33:06.280 not even close.
00:33:08.200 And what caused that?
00:33:09.560 What caused that primarily
00:33:11.000 was the shale revolution
00:33:13.200 and the incredible abundance
00:33:16.120 of natural gas we have.
00:33:17.880 And we've seen
00:33:18.760 a large scale shift
00:33:20.420 from electricity production
00:33:22.160 from coal to natural gas.
00:33:25.420 Natural gas is a much cleaner way
00:33:27.420 to produce electricity than coal.
00:33:29.120 And so we've seen
00:33:30.340 not just carbon emissions going down,
00:33:31.920 but pollutants going down
00:33:32.960 by dramatic numbers.
00:33:34.140 Now, here's the weird thing
00:33:36.080 about environmentalists
00:33:37.180 on the left.
00:33:38.740 You would think
00:33:39.840 if the goal is a cleaner environment,
00:33:41.520 you'd be celebrating that.
00:33:42.580 You'd say that's a good thing.
00:33:43.700 What the environmentalists
00:33:44.580 on the left are trying to do
00:33:45.580 is shut down natural gas.
00:33:48.200 Shut down natural gas,
00:33:49.600 destroy American production.
00:33:51.480 And ironically,
00:33:52.120 they also want to shut down
00:33:53.380 U.S. oil,
00:33:55.260 which then makes us
00:33:56.920 more dependent on foreign oil,
00:33:58.720 all of which is produced
00:33:59.920 in a dirtier way.
00:34:00.820 So you end up hurting
00:34:02.980 the environment more.
00:34:04.260 And today's environmental movement
00:34:07.060 on the left
00:34:07.760 is an ideology
00:34:09.300 where actually clean air
00:34:10.920 and clean water
00:34:11.720 is really low on the priority list.
00:34:14.880 Stopping human production,
00:34:17.460 stopping new businesses,
00:34:18.720 stopping new residential developments,
00:34:20.800 stopping new economic,
00:34:22.640 stopping jobs
00:34:23.600 is their priority.
00:34:25.600 And you've got zealots
00:34:26.800 who view economic development
00:34:29.720 inherently as an evil.
00:34:31.860 Look, most of us think
00:34:33.080 jobs are good.
00:34:34.000 We'd like to have clean air
00:34:34.860 and clean water too
00:34:35.740 and have jobs.
00:34:37.020 You can do both
00:34:37.820 if you actually employ
00:34:38.880 some common sense.
00:34:41.080 The radical left
00:34:43.140 on the environment
00:34:43.860 is not interested
00:34:44.580 in common sense.
00:34:45.640 Yeah, there does seem
00:34:46.500 to be something
00:34:47.240 a little misanthropic
00:34:48.400 about it all.
00:34:49.140 I don't want to,
00:34:50.020 you know,
00:34:50.660 read into our opponent's
00:34:52.920 thought process here
00:34:54.180 or anything,
00:34:54.500 but it did sometimes seem
00:34:56.360 when I was living in California
00:34:57.620 as though the left
00:34:58.840 valued the Delta smelt
00:35:00.320 more than they did
00:35:01.340 working families
00:35:02.200 who were trying to have jobs
00:35:03.740 and people were trying
00:35:04.340 to pay for energy prices
00:35:05.460 and ironically,
00:35:06.880 so many of their policies
00:35:07.920 actually were harmful
00:35:09.580 ultimately to the environment.
00:35:11.340 Next question from Ben
00:35:12.540 is for me.
00:35:13.300 Ben writes,
00:35:14.080 will your next book
00:35:15.020 be titled Shameless
00:35:16.240 because of your shameful plugs
00:35:18.620 of Speechless?
00:35:20.200 Yes, it will be.
00:35:22.040 That is if I ever
00:35:22.880 write a book again.
00:35:23.740 Senator,
00:35:24.000 I know you've written
00:35:24.700 multiple books with words.
00:35:26.440 I frankly am sick
00:35:27.440 of writing a book with words.
00:35:28.900 It's much too hard,
00:35:29.860 so I'll probably return
00:35:30.860 to my former magnum opus.
00:35:33.760 The final question
00:35:34.860 is for you
00:35:35.800 from E.M. Taylor.
00:35:38.340 Senator Cruz,
00:35:39.460 can you explain standing
00:35:41.240 and why does this not apply
00:35:43.380 in the DOJ case
00:35:44.940 against Georgia voting laws?
00:35:46.720 So I bring up this question
00:35:48.800 because I want,
00:35:50.600 on the next episode,
00:35:51.380 I want to get into
00:35:52.100 some legal questions
00:35:53.480 that are very much
00:35:54.080 in the news right now.
00:35:55.180 This one just came up.
00:35:56.300 The DOJ is suing Georgia
00:35:58.960 because of Georgia's
00:36:00.360 voter integrity law.
00:36:01.320 They're saying
00:36:01.640 that this is discriminatory
00:36:03.140 and the federal government
00:36:04.080 is going to go in
00:36:04.900 and stop Georgia
00:36:06.040 from passing laws
00:36:07.080 to protect their own vote.
00:36:08.440 And because I know
00:36:09.300 absolutely nothing
00:36:10.160 about the law
00:36:10.840 and did not go to law school,
00:36:11.920 Senator,
00:36:12.460 can you please explain it for us?
00:36:14.300 Sure.
00:36:14.560 Two related concepts.
00:36:17.940 One,
00:36:18.520 in order for a court
00:36:19.860 to be able to decide a case,
00:36:21.820 it has to be
00:36:22.480 what's called
00:36:22.900 a case or controversy.
00:36:24.900 It has to be a live dispute
00:36:26.540 between real parties.
00:36:28.140 It can't just be
00:36:29.640 a request for judges
00:36:31.720 to issue an advisory opinion
00:36:33.360 on a question of law.
00:36:36.120 An element of that,
00:36:37.620 one element of that
00:36:38.360 is that you've got
00:36:38.860 to have a real injury.
00:36:40.580 But another element of that
00:36:42.020 is that you've got to have
00:36:43.440 a plaintiff with standing
00:36:45.480 and standing put simply
00:36:46.880 is essentially
00:36:47.660 someone with a beef in it,
00:36:49.620 someone who's got
00:36:50.560 something at stake.
00:36:51.440 So,
00:36:52.400 listen,
00:36:54.600 if
00:36:54.720 you,
00:36:58.220 your book publisher
00:36:59.520 breaks
00:37:00.420 its contract with you
00:37:03.540 and says,
00:37:04.820 Michael,
00:37:05.120 we're tired of publishing books
00:37:06.520 with no words,
00:37:07.720 we're not going to send you
00:37:08.760 any royalty checks.
00:37:10.440 Fair enough.
00:37:10.760 Now,
00:37:11.060 I might look at that
00:37:12.060 and say,
00:37:13.000 that is ridiculous.
00:37:15.040 Michael is,
00:37:16.400 the poor guy
00:37:17.180 is a starving Yaley.
00:37:18.760 He depends upon
00:37:19.780 these royalty checks
00:37:20.920 to buy his skinny jeans
00:37:23.420 and his,
00:37:24.520 you know,
00:37:25.680 the outfits he wears
00:37:26.780 on verdict.
00:37:27.820 And so I'm really upset
00:37:28.980 they're not paying it.
00:37:30.320 Well,
00:37:30.620 as upset as I might be,
00:37:32.160 I don't have standing
00:37:33.160 to sue over breach
00:37:34.000 of contract.
00:37:34.600 It's not,
00:37:34.920 I'm not a party
00:37:35.480 to the contract.
00:37:36.300 I,
00:37:36.880 you have standing
00:37:37.980 to sue.
00:37:38.460 If they breach
00:37:39.060 a contract with you,
00:37:39.900 you have standing
00:37:40.660 to sue
00:37:41.140 because you've suffered
00:37:42.760 an injury
00:37:43.380 and you're actually
00:37:44.260 a party
00:37:45.860 to the,
00:37:46.680 in this case,
00:37:47.420 the contract.
00:37:49.120 So the question is,
00:37:50.480 why does the United States
00:37:51.660 have standing
00:37:52.340 to sue Georgia?
00:37:54.160 In this instance,
00:37:55.480 they sued Georgia
00:37:56.580 under Section 2
00:37:58.000 of the Voting Rights Act
00:37:59.060 and that is a statute
00:38:01.820 that Congress passed
00:38:03.040 to protect voting rights
00:38:04.940 and it actually gives
00:38:06.240 the Attorney General
00:38:07.320 the authority
00:38:08.840 to bring suits
00:38:09.740 to enforce the law.
00:38:10.860 And so in the role
00:38:11.780 as the chief lawyer
00:38:13.460 for the United States
00:38:14.360 of America,
00:38:14.940 the Attorney General
00:38:16.400 has the authority
00:38:17.260 under the Voting Rights Act
00:38:18.280 to bring suits.
00:38:19.580 Now,
00:38:19.700 I think the suit
00:38:20.240 is not meritorious
00:38:21.220 and I think we're going
00:38:21.680 to discuss that
00:38:22.380 on a subsequent verdict.
00:38:24.940 But in terms of standing,
00:38:27.000 the way the Voting Rights Act
00:38:28.040 is written,
00:38:29.200 the Department of Justice
00:38:30.180 has standing
00:38:31.020 to bring a case
00:38:32.020 to enforce Section 2
00:38:33.480 of the Voting Rights Act.
00:38:34.440 All right.
00:38:34.860 That's just a little teaser
00:38:36.160 for something talking about.
00:38:37.600 Yes,
00:38:38.180 that's the argument
00:38:39.040 from the federal government
00:38:40.060 and we will knock down
00:38:41.560 why it's a very bad idea
00:38:42.960 to go in and upend
00:38:44.980 this voting rights law
00:38:46.560 in Georgia.
00:38:47.640 But not this time.
00:38:48.560 We run out of time, Senator.
00:38:50.040 Thank you as always.
00:38:51.460 And by the way,
00:38:52.240 I think all of the listeners
00:38:53.580 of Verdict
00:38:54.080 would have standing
00:38:54.740 if I could no longer
00:38:55.620 afford my skinny jeans.
00:38:56.820 I think that would greatly injure
00:38:57.960 all of the viewers out there.
00:38:59.760 But we'll discuss it coming up.
00:39:01.040 I'm Michael Knowles.
00:39:01.680 This is Verdict
00:39:02.340 with Ted Cruz.
00:39:10.520 This episode of Verdict
00:39:12.140 with Ted Cruz
00:39:13.040 is being brought to you
00:39:14.060 by Jobs, Freedom
00:39:15.100 and Security Pack,
00:39:16.420 a political action committee
00:39:17.820 dedicated to supporting
00:39:19.000 conservative causes,
00:39:20.420 organizations
00:39:20.960 and candidates
00:39:21.940 across the country.
00:39:23.000 In 2022,
00:39:24.540 Jobs, Freedom
00:39:25.180 and Security Pack
00:39:26.180 plans to donate
00:39:27.040 to conservative candidates
00:39:28.340 running for Congress
00:39:29.400 and help the Republican Party
00:39:31.040 across the nation.
00:39:32.820 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:39:35.160 Guaranteed Human.