Verdict with Ted Cruz - The Poisoning of the American Mind ft. Christopher Rufo

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.400 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.480 Parents across the country have been storming school board meetings

00:00:08.340 to demand an end to critical race theory in the classroom.

00:00:13.400 And prominent leftists have responded in one of two ways.

00:00:16.920 Some of them have defended critical race theory

00:00:19.500 as a good and important academic movement.

00:00:22.040 And others have denied that critical race theory exists at all.

00:00:25.920 And actually, many prominent leftists have done both at the same time.

00:00:30.680 Critical race theory doesn't exist,

00:00:32.320 but it's also terrific and wonderful and very important.

00:00:34.860 Well, here to help us break it down,

00:00:36.840 we have one of the nation's top experts on critical race theory.

00:00:40.940 This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:00:48.500 Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz.

00:00:50.460 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:00:51.540 And this week, I am joined not only by the senator himself,

00:00:55.920 but also by Christopher Ruffo,

00:00:58.100 who is senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute

00:01:00.460 and who is largely responsible for many people around the country

00:01:05.320 waking up to critical race theory

00:01:07.860 and the associated leftist ideological movements

00:01:11.100 that are poisoning the minds of young America.

00:01:14.720 All right, you understand my opinion of CRT,

00:01:17.460 but I want to take a somewhat balanced perspective.

00:01:20.300 Chris, thank you so much for being here.

00:01:21.820 It's great to be with you.

00:01:22.500 So, Senator, you and I were talking not so long ago

00:01:26.200 about what CRT was like back when you were a student in law school

00:01:31.060 because it did begin in the law schools,

00:01:33.440 but it didn't end in the law schools.

00:01:36.060 Well, that's right.

00:01:36.760 And Harvard Law School is really where it originated.

00:01:40.380 And unfortunately, it has metastasized and spread.

00:01:43.840 And Chris has done a terrific job of chronicling

00:01:48.120 where and when it has spread and how it's manifesting.

00:01:53.620 And so maybe one thing to start this conversation,

00:01:57.880 Chris, tell us, does critical race theory exist?

00:02:02.160 Because if I turn on MSNBC,

00:02:03.680 I see a lot of people screaming at me that there is no such thing.

00:02:07.260 Yeah, it definitely exists.

00:02:09.060 And I've noticed a lot of folks on the left,

00:02:11.180 especially in places like MSNBC, equating critical race theory

00:02:14.560 with Bigfoot, with the Loch Ness Monster.

00:02:17.680 It seems to be impossible to find,

00:02:19.220 only in the fevered imaginations of conservatives.

00:02:21.920 But critical race theorists, unfortunately for them,

00:02:24.640 left a very heavy paper trail.

00:02:26.940 If you look at the original academic writings

00:02:28.460 in the late 80s and early 90s,

00:02:30.080 all the way now to K through 12 schools,

00:02:32.500 where I've meticulously documented

00:02:34.340 not just people's experiences and people's opinions,

00:02:37.900 but actual PDFs, videos, documents,

00:02:41.620 and hard evidence of these really atrocious ideas

00:02:46.740 that are not just being discussed.

00:02:48.300 So give us an example of what's being taught

00:02:50.680 to kids in schools.

00:02:51.900 Sure.

00:02:52.300 I mean, in Cupertino, California,

00:02:53.880 they forced third graders,

00:02:56.160 kids that are about eight years old,

00:02:57.340 to deconstruct their racial and sexual identities

00:02:59.840 and then rank themselves according to a racial hierarchy.

00:03:03.740 In fifth grade, in Buffalo and Philadelphia,

00:03:07.580 they were teaching that, quote,

00:03:09.020 all white people contribute to systemic racism.

00:03:12.040 They were forcing kids to hold

00:03:14.020 a simulated black power rally in the auditorium,

00:03:17.000 chanting for Angela Davis to be freed from prison.

00:03:20.360 In a public high school in New York,

00:03:21.660 they sent out an email to white parents saying that they should be done.

00:03:24.040 And hold on, Chris, let me stop you on that.

00:03:26.420 Angela Davis, for someone who doesn't know who she is,

00:03:31.160 who's Angela Davis? 1.00

00:03:33.020 You know, in many ways,

00:03:33.900 Angela Davis was the kind of prototype of critical race theory.

00:03:38.000 She was the doctoral student

00:03:39.540 of the kind of founding American critical theorist

00:03:42.560 named Herbert Marcuse,

00:03:43.880 who advocated for revolution,

00:03:45.600 who condoned even violence.

00:03:47.880 Angela Davis was his student,

00:03:49.380 steeped in Marxist ideology,

00:03:51.280 who eventually was provided weapons

00:03:54.700 for a hostage situation in a courtroom.

00:03:57.860 She was a member of the Communist Party.

00:03:59.580 She advocated for the overthrow of the United States,

00:04:02.140 abolishing capitalism.

00:04:03.780 And a lot of those ideas that,

00:04:05.480 during Davis's time,

00:04:06.380 were really on the radical left fringe,

00:04:08.680 have now moved not only into mainstream university discourse,

00:04:11.960 but even into public K-12 schools

00:04:14.440 under this guise of critical race theory.

00:04:17.400 So, Chris, you know,

00:04:19.040 I want to have a good answer for the leftists

00:04:21.960 who have now made,

00:04:23.780 it seems that they're speaking in unison

00:04:25.460 after spending weeks defending CRT,

00:04:27.600 now they're denying it.

00:04:28.580 And they are saying that,

00:04:30.060 almost by definition,

00:04:31.920 critical race theory

00:04:33.100 is only taught and discussed in law schools.

00:04:37.040 And that the things that are going on

00:04:38.820 in K-12,

00:04:40.220 maybe they're anti-white,

00:04:41.820 maybe they're bigoted,

00:04:43.260 maybe they're vicious and far left,

00:04:45.080 but whatever it is,

00:04:46.640 they're not the same thing

00:04:48.100 as critical race theory.

00:04:49.340 What do you say to people

00:04:51.180 who are making that argument?

00:04:52.820 Yeah, I mean, it's important.

00:04:53.960 Like all Marxist ideologies,

00:04:56.000 you have theory and praxis

00:04:57.800 or kind of the general ideas

00:04:59.700 and then the practical implementation

00:05:01.060 of those ideas.

00:05:02.140 That's embedded within critical race theory.

00:05:04.500 So what it looks like in a scholarly paper,

00:05:07.160 obviously they're not teaching kindergartners

00:05:08.680 how to read the Harvard Law Review,

00:05:10.340 but what they are teaching kindergartners

00:05:11.880 can be thought of as applied critical race theory.

00:05:15.420 So I'm just going to lay out some key terms,

00:05:17.420 and these are really kind of red flag terms

00:05:20.280 that if they're teaching in a K-12 school,

00:05:22.760 it's almost undoubtedly informed

00:05:24.740 by critical race theory

00:05:25.840 and using the principles of critical race theory.

00:05:28.820 So if you hear whiteness, 0.76

00:05:30.520 white privilege,

00:05:31.400 white fragility,

00:05:32.480 oppressor oppressed,

00:05:33.900 intersectionality,

00:05:34.760 systemic racism,

00:05:36.200 spirit murder,

00:05:36.960 equity,

00:05:37.440 anti-racism,

00:05:38.260 collective guilt,

00:05:39.020 or affinity spaces,

00:05:40.520 which are racially segregated

00:05:41.880 training programs

00:05:43.680 and educational lectures,

00:05:44.680 all of those key terms,

00:05:46.860 which you hear in hundreds,

00:05:48.480 if not thousands,

00:05:49.360 of school districts

00:05:50.100 across the country,

00:05:51.680 even if they don't say

00:05:52.600 under the heading critical race theory,

00:05:55.180 those are all ideas

00:05:56.060 that are derived

00:05:56.920 from critical race theory

00:05:58.060 and then applied in the classroom

00:05:59.820 through critical pedagogy.

00:06:01.620 Okay, so Chris,

00:06:02.640 back up a little bit

00:06:03.760 and run through those terms.

00:06:05.120 A lot of those terms

00:06:06.060 we may or may not have heard of,

00:06:07.720 but what do they mean?

00:06:08.640 Go through them one at a time.

00:06:10.980 Yeah, so I'll first take

00:06:12.100 the trio of terms

00:06:13.600 related to whiteness.

00:06:15.060 It's this idea

00:06:15.680 that people

00:06:16.860 of different racial categories

00:06:18.180 can be reduced

00:06:19.060 to a racial essence,

00:06:20.740 this almost metaphysical

00:06:22.180 property of whiteness,

00:06:23.480 the condition of being white.

00:06:26.020 And that includes,

00:06:27.120 by definition,

00:06:27.840 in their theories,

00:06:28.900 white privilege,

00:06:29.660 this idea that society

00:06:30.780 is tilted towards you,

00:06:32.760 you are embedded

00:06:33.620 by simply existing,

00:06:35.020 you have vested

00:06:35.940 property interests

00:06:36.920 and advantages

00:06:37.520 because of the color

00:06:38.560 of your skin,

00:06:38.980 and also white fragility.

00:06:40.840 The idea that any reaction

00:06:42.260 against something

00:06:43.160 like critical race theory

00:06:44.120 doesn't come from

00:06:45.360 principled agreement

00:06:46.220 or dissent,

00:06:47.040 it comes from

00:06:48.000 the kind of psychopathology

00:06:51.040 of being white,

00:06:52.360 that you are fragile,

00:06:54.180 that you are going to react

00:06:55.800 out of rage,

00:06:56.860 out of other sorts of emotions

00:06:58.060 to any challenge

00:06:59.500 to your identity.

00:07:01.000 And then I think

00:07:02.040 a second bucket,

00:07:02.900 you have to look at

00:07:03.580 oppressor and oppressed.

00:07:05.400 This is Marxian conflict theory,

00:07:07.560 you know,

00:07:08.500 derived in the 19th century,

00:07:10.840 but now looking at that

00:07:12.040 through a racial lens,

00:07:13.220 the idea that

00:07:13.820 the oppressors are not,

00:07:15.660 you know,

00:07:15.940 the capitalist landlords

00:07:17.120 and ownership class,

00:07:17.960 but actually a racial category

00:07:19.480 of whites.

00:07:20.500 The oppressed are

00:07:21.300 black Americans

00:07:22.860 and people of color.

00:07:24.480 And then intersectionality

00:07:25.720 basically takes

00:07:26.620 this kind of,

00:07:27.840 you know,

00:07:28.600 kind of shake them up approach

00:07:29.780 to this oppressor

00:07:30.560 and oppressed distinction,

00:07:31.940 saying all the different

00:07:32.860 racial categories,

00:07:34.160 religion,

00:07:34.940 language,

00:07:35.320 disability status,

00:07:36.980 your body mass index even,

00:07:38.760 are all vestiges

00:07:39.820 of this capitalist,

00:07:41.560 white supremacist patriarchy

00:07:43.120 that oppresses people.

00:07:45.680 And then this is then

00:07:47.280 the kind of antidote

00:07:49.280 that they profess

00:07:50.280 is something like equity

00:07:51.780 or anti-racism.

00:07:53.780 And Ibram Kendi,

00:07:55.120 who I think is the kind of

00:07:56.020 critical race guru

00:07:56.880 of our time,

00:07:57.960 defines anti-racism,

00:07:59.320 defines equity

00:07:59.980 in very simple terms.

00:08:00.940 He says,

00:08:01.740 the cure for past discrimination

00:08:03.260 is present discrimination.

00:08:05.380 The idea that being,

00:08:06.700 you know,

00:08:07.280 we don't want to have

00:08:08.260 equality under the law,

00:08:09.480 we don't want to have

00:08:10.120 colorblindness,

00:08:10.880 we don't want to have

00:08:11.400 meritocracy,

00:08:12.480 we want to have a legal regime

00:08:13.720 that favors people

00:08:14.800 on the basis of race,

00:08:16.120 that tips the scales

00:08:17.240 to someone on the basis

00:08:18.720 of race,

00:08:19.100 and even in many cases

00:08:21.140 in critical race theory,

00:08:22.360 actually abolishes

00:08:23.360 the system of capitalism,

00:08:25.020 redistributes land

00:08:25.900 and wealth

00:08:26.320 on the basis

00:08:26.960 of racial identity.

00:08:28.960 So let me break down,

00:08:30.020 because there are a number

00:08:30.600 of concepts in there,

00:08:31.820 like you mentioned equity,

00:08:33.960 now equity sounds

00:08:35.020 very similar to equality,

00:08:36.820 and equality is a good thing.

00:08:38.560 I mean,

00:08:38.800 we are a nation

00:08:40.820 that was built

00:08:41.880 under the principle

00:08:43.540 of equality under the law,

00:08:44.980 but when you hear

00:08:46.380 the critical race theorists

00:08:47.940 talking about equity,

00:08:49.560 they don't mean equality.

00:08:50.880 What's the difference

00:08:51.760 between the two?

00:08:52.640 It's a really key difference,

00:08:54.060 and I think that they've

00:08:54.860 adapted the term equity

00:08:56.320 really to play

00:08:58.180 a language game,

00:08:59.340 to trick most Americans

00:09:00.680 to think it's just

00:09:01.560 equality 2.0.

00:09:02.760 It's just a better version

00:09:04.240 of what we had before.

00:09:05.780 But the philosophical premise

00:09:08.020 of these ideas

00:09:09.480 is quite different.

00:09:11.380 Equality, as you said,

00:09:12.920 seeks to provide

00:09:14.060 equal protection

00:09:14.780 under the law.

00:09:15.860 It protects

00:09:16.760 the individual's right

00:09:17.840 to things like

00:09:18.440 private property,

00:09:19.500 to freedom of speech,

00:09:20.940 to political participation

00:09:22.320 and representation.

00:09:23.640 So equality says

00:09:24.860 you can't discriminate.

00:09:27.100 Equity says

00:09:27.860 you must discriminate. 0.88

00:09:29.060 Is that,

00:09:29.580 am I following this right?

00:09:30.880 That's right.

00:09:31.860 And the key difference

00:09:33.320 is that equality

00:09:34.060 looks to you

00:09:34.680 as an individual

00:09:35.320 and says that

00:09:36.180 the key unit

00:09:37.360 of measurement,

00:09:38.040 analysis,

00:09:38.440 and policy

00:09:38.900 is the individual

00:09:39.920 human being

00:09:40.580 who should be

00:09:41.260 protected from discrimination.

00:09:43.120 Equity says

00:09:43.740 we don't want to look

00:09:44.620 at society

00:09:45.140 as a collection

00:09:46.220 of individuals.

00:09:47.300 We want to look

00:09:47.920 at society

00:09:48.660 as a collection

00:09:49.880 of competing

00:09:50.680 racial groups.

00:09:51.920 And we need

00:09:52.640 to achieve

00:09:53.100 the equality

00:09:53.820 of outcomes

00:09:54.760 between those

00:09:55.840 racial groups

00:09:56.460 by whatever means

00:09:57.480 necessary,

00:09:58.360 including racial discrimination,

00:09:59.800 which they call

00:10:00.600 positive discrimination

00:10:02.140 or affirmative action,

00:10:03.820 which is different.

00:10:04.940 Let me stop you

00:10:05.880 because one thing

00:10:07.180 you said there

00:10:07.680 that I think

00:10:08.120 is really important

00:10:09.380 is you talk about

00:10:10.100 the language games

00:10:11.020 and in the world

00:10:12.020 of critical race theory,

00:10:13.560 I mean,

00:10:13.860 the left is very good

00:10:15.040 and creative

00:10:15.460 when it comes to language

00:10:16.440 and the similarity

00:10:18.280 between equity

00:10:19.140 and equality.

00:10:19.940 It's like,

00:10:20.200 well, gosh,

00:10:20.580 who could be

00:10:20.940 against equality,

00:10:21.820 which I guess means

00:10:22.740 everyone has to be

00:10:24.060 for what they call equity,

00:10:25.320 which is discriminate

00:10:26.160 based on race,

00:10:27.980 which is the exact opposite

00:10:29.300 of what we should be doing.

00:10:30.420 But they do a similar thing

00:10:31.900 with systematic racism.

00:10:35.620 And when you say,

00:10:37.840 so systematic racism

00:10:39.040 is different from racism.

00:10:41.280 Like nobody disputes,

00:10:43.100 racism is real.

00:10:44.000 There are bigots

00:10:44.580 in the world.

00:10:46.120 There are bigots,

00:10:47.720 there are white bigots,

00:10:48.860 there are black bigots, 0.98

00:10:49.800 there are bigots

00:10:51.020 of every race

00:10:51.700 and creed you can find.

00:10:53.520 Now,

00:10:54.720 that is a very different thing

00:10:56.160 from the notion

00:10:56.780 of systematic racism,

00:10:58.460 which is that the system

00:10:59.960 is fundamentally racist,

00:11:01.840 whether it's

00:11:02.320 the criminal justice system,

00:11:03.980 whether it is

00:11:04.960 the capitalist system,

00:11:06.280 whether it is

00:11:06.620 whatever the systems

00:11:08.260 we have in the country

00:11:09.620 that they are built

00:11:11.480 into their structure racist,

00:11:13.140 that's very different.

00:11:14.980 But the problem is

00:11:15.640 when someone's listening to it

00:11:17.120 and they hear

00:11:18.280 systematic racism,

00:11:19.420 they think,

00:11:19.780 well, yeah,

00:11:20.040 racism exists,

00:11:20.840 so that must be right.

00:11:22.200 And when they hear

00:11:22.740 someone denying it,

00:11:23.900 they say,

00:11:24.420 well, gosh,

00:11:25.080 that guy's a loon

00:11:25.820 because he says

00:11:26.320 there's no racism.

00:11:27.820 How much mileage

00:11:31.260 do they get

00:11:31.880 out of these language games

00:11:33.360 trying to make something

00:11:35.480 invidious

00:11:37.760 sound like it's innocuous?

00:11:40.140 Yeah, I mean,

00:11:40.820 they've been very successful

00:11:42.140 with it,

00:11:42.540 and I think that's why

00:11:43.260 we have to be very vigorous

00:11:45.080 in creating language

00:11:46.760 and also subverting

00:11:47.980 their language.

00:11:48.760 So systemic racism

00:11:49.920 is very interesting.

00:11:50.720 It achieves really

00:11:51.380 two objectives

00:11:52.220 for them simultaneously.

00:11:53.180 One, it assumes

00:11:55.220 that any disparity

00:11:56.160 in outcome

00:11:56.760 through any kind

00:11:57.700 of statistical measure

00:11:58.700 where things aren't equal

00:12:00.300 in the ways

00:12:00.800 that they want them

00:12:01.380 to be equal

00:12:02.000 kind of makes the case

00:12:06.520 for racism

00:12:07.120 as the original cause

00:12:08.800 of everything.

00:12:09.540 So what it tries to do

00:12:11.000 is basically say

00:12:11.760 that all of these systems

00:12:13.080 are racist

00:12:13.720 because they produce

00:12:15.040 unequal outcomes

00:12:16.160 by whatever measure

00:12:17.080 that they're measuring

00:12:17.860 of the day.

00:12:19.160 But the second thing

00:12:20.280 that it does

00:12:20.740 is it also implies

00:12:22.260 a solution.

00:12:23.240 If something

00:12:23.620 is systematically racist,

00:12:25.600 the only solution

00:12:26.340 is to tear down

00:12:27.360 that system.

00:12:28.460 So they try to put

00:12:29.280 this systematic lens,

00:12:30.780 institutional lens,

00:12:31.860 systemic lens

00:12:32.660 on all of the various categories,

00:12:35.140 whether it's the Constitution,

00:12:36.500 whether it's law,

00:12:37.340 whether it's private property,

00:12:38.840 whether it's the Civil Rights Act

00:12:39.840 and non-discrimination.

00:12:41.360 And then they try to say

00:12:42.180 basically the only solution

00:12:43.660 because we've tried

00:12:44.680 civil rights,

00:12:46.520 we've tried equality,

00:12:47.560 we've tried everything

00:12:48.400 that they said

00:12:50.000 was going to lead

00:12:50.620 to greater equality.

00:12:52.160 It all has to go.

00:12:53.520 And I think at heart,

00:12:54.600 if you look at critical race theory,

00:12:55.980 it is anti-constitutional.

00:12:58.260 It is explicitly

00:13:00.400 anti-14th Amendment,

00:13:01.840 the idea of equal protection

00:13:02.800 under the law.

00:13:03.780 It's explicitly anti-capitalist.

00:13:05.900 So our economic system

00:13:06.860 has to go.

00:13:07.880 And if you go on

00:13:08.760 down the line,

00:13:09.500 you find that people,

00:13:10.900 that the critical race theories

00:13:11.700 don't want to reform

00:13:12.980 the United States.

00:13:14.740 They want to overturn

00:13:16.660 the United States.

00:13:17.660 They want to kind of

00:13:18.840 fundamentally destroy

00:13:20.540 the institutions

00:13:21.180 in the hope that

00:13:22.000 something better will emerge.

00:13:24.480 So the question

00:13:25.500 that keeps striking me,

00:13:26.740 because I think

00:13:27.180 absolutely you're right,

00:13:28.900 Senator.

00:13:29.360 I mean,

00:13:29.600 you actually saw

00:13:31.020 this ideology develop

00:13:33.080 at the place

00:13:33.900 where it developed

00:13:34.600 in the years

00:13:35.400 that it was developing.

00:13:36.680 And Chris,

00:13:37.040 you've traced that out

00:13:37.780 very well.

00:13:38.560 And I agree.

00:13:39.520 I think the argument

00:13:40.320 now that's being made

00:13:41.320 on the left

00:13:41.860 that actually

00:13:43.060 when educators

00:13:44.560 in high schools

00:13:45.400 and middle schools

00:13:46.300 repeat all of the various

00:13:48.200 axioms of critical race theory,

00:13:49.940 that that somehow

00:13:50.500 is totally different

00:13:51.740 from critical race theory.

00:13:52.680 I think it's a kind

00:13:53.320 of weak argument.

00:13:54.080 It's actually

00:13:54.280 a nominalist argument

00:13:55.480 that basically

00:13:56.440 just tries to run away

00:13:57.580 from words

00:13:58.320 having any meaning at all

00:13:59.360 as general principles.

00:14:00.840 But I am still left

00:14:02.480 with this question.

00:14:03.900 How did critical race theory

00:14:05.860 developed in the 1980s

00:14:07.720 at Harvard Law School?

00:14:09.060 How did it go

00:14:09.840 from this kooky fringe movement

00:14:11.480 at one law school,

00:14:13.000 a very disreputable law school

00:14:14.760 as far as I'm concerned,

00:14:15.980 by the way?

00:14:17.480 But how did it go

00:14:18.760 from there

00:14:19.440 to every system

00:14:22.340 of education

00:14:22.880 in the country?

00:14:24.100 Yeah, I mean,

00:14:24.820 that's a big question.

00:14:26.160 And I think you can look

00:14:26.940 at a couple different

00:14:27.960 methods of transmission.

00:14:29.660 I think probably

00:14:30.280 the most important one

00:14:31.460 is graduate schools

00:14:32.520 of education.

00:14:33.500 So there's a large body

00:14:35.600 of academic research

00:14:36.480 that they think of

00:14:37.240 as the critical turn

00:14:38.300 in education.

00:14:39.200 So taking critical

00:14:40.700 legal studies,

00:14:41.540 taking critical theory,

00:14:42.600 taking critical race theory,

00:14:43.780 and applying it

00:14:45.080 to education.

00:14:45.880 And the idea being

00:14:46.540 that if you can shape

00:14:48.500 a curriculum

00:14:49.080 and shape a pedagogy

00:14:50.580 to apply the ideas

00:14:52.100 of critical race theory

00:14:52.880 to kids,

00:14:53.580 you're going to bring up

00:14:54.520 a generation

00:14:55.100 that can solve

00:14:55.800 some of these problems

00:14:56.880 such as white privilege

00:14:58.240 and white fragility,

00:14:59.740 systemic racism,

00:15:01.280 et cetera.

00:15:02.300 And if you look

00:15:03.520 at graduate schools

00:15:04.700 of education,

00:15:05.600 I mean,

00:15:05.860 they are steeped

00:15:06.860 in this stuff.

00:15:08.100 The kind of foundational

00:15:09.820 textbook in most

00:15:10.800 graduate schools

00:15:11.240 of education

00:15:11.720 is the pedagogy

00:15:13.640 of the oppressed

00:15:14.340 by the critical pedagogist

00:15:15.800 Paulo Freira.

00:15:17.100 And then they take

00:15:17.980 all of these ideas

00:15:19.120 from critical theory

00:15:20.360 and then do essentially

00:15:21.880 critical race theory,

00:15:23.320 the praxis portion,

00:15:24.760 the practice.

00:15:25.940 And then you have,

00:15:26.640 I don't know,

00:15:27.240 thousands or maybe

00:15:28.120 tens of thousands

00:15:28.920 of people

00:15:30.500 who are graduating

00:15:31.220 from these schools.

00:15:32.280 This is really

00:15:32.720 the only framework

00:15:33.620 that they know.

00:15:34.580 And they're being put

00:15:35.380 into place

00:15:36.040 in school districts

00:15:36.760 around the country.

00:15:37.380 And one thing

00:15:37.720 that I've seen

00:15:38.340 is that older teachers

00:15:40.040 are not teaching this.

00:15:42.080 Older teachers

00:15:42.600 are in many cases

00:15:43.420 the people

00:15:43.800 who leak documents

00:15:44.740 to me

00:15:45.220 because they're saying

00:15:46.120 this is tearing

00:15:46.800 our institutions apart.

00:15:48.360 But if you're under 35

00:15:49.640 and you're a new

00:15:51.160 public school teacher

00:15:52.040 or within the first

00:15:52.760 five, ten years

00:15:53.340 of your career,

00:15:54.860 this is the water

00:15:56.240 that you swim in.

00:15:57.060 This is what you're teaching.

00:15:58.540 This is how you're designing

00:15:59.560 your curricula.

00:16:00.540 And then you have

00:16:01.020 a network

00:16:01.620 of non-profits,

00:16:04.260 of critical race theory

00:16:05.680 based training programs

00:16:07.500 and diversity lecturers

00:16:08.540 and contractors

00:16:09.440 that have created

00:16:10.740 an economic ecosystem

00:16:11.960 where they can

00:16:12.660 attach themselves

00:16:13.600 to public institutions

00:16:14.520 like school districts

00:16:15.400 and then push

00:16:16.520 these ideas

00:16:17.180 from that fringe

00:16:18.900 all the way

00:16:20.060 into, in some cases,

00:16:22.160 a kindergarten classroom.

00:16:24.080 And I think it,

00:16:24.920 you know,

00:16:25.520 in a way,

00:16:26.520 you have to give

00:16:27.040 these folks respect.

00:16:28.560 They've had a 30-year plan

00:16:30.300 to get their ideas

00:16:31.240 into the institutions.

00:16:32.780 And in many ways,

00:16:33.880 they're just on the cusp

00:16:35.060 of success

00:16:36.160 unless we stop them.

00:16:37.320 So, Chris,

00:16:38.480 one very useful thing

00:16:39.500 I think you've laid out

00:16:40.580 for folks listening

00:16:41.800 or watching the pod.

00:16:43.140 If you're a parent,

00:16:44.180 if you have kids,

00:16:45.080 Heidi and I,

00:16:45.640 our girls are 10 and 13.

00:16:47.840 If you're looking

00:16:48.760 at their curriculum

00:16:49.520 in school,

00:16:50.380 there are buzzwords

00:16:51.340 that you want

00:16:51.860 to be looking for.

00:16:52.740 Things like white privilege

00:16:54.420 or whiteness

00:16:55.200 or white fragility,

00:16:56.320 which are weird concepts.

00:16:58.200 Things like anti-racism,

00:17:01.240 which I have to say,

00:17:02.140 by the way,

00:17:03.260 I have to step back

00:17:04.900 and marvel

00:17:05.420 at the cleverness

00:17:06.900 of the propaganda

00:17:08.020 because anti-racism,

00:17:10.540 I think,

00:17:10.880 absolutely I'm anti-racism.

00:17:12.860 Racism is horrible

00:17:14.420 and evil and bigotry.

00:17:15.820 And so, of course,

00:17:16.380 I'm against that.

00:17:18.460 But anti-racism

00:17:20.300 is a code word

00:17:21.140 that doesn't actually mean

00:17:22.520 being against racism.

00:17:24.300 It means being a racist

00:17:26.820 explicitly

00:17:28.840 and discriminating,

00:17:30.340 number one,

00:17:30.880 against white kids,

00:17:32.080 discriminating,

00:17:33.480 number two,

00:17:35.960 viewing the system

00:17:37.700 in a way

00:17:39.400 that it is inherently biased

00:17:41.240 and wanting to tear it down.

00:17:43.000 And, you know,

00:17:43.200 we talked a minute ago

00:17:44.080 about how all of this

00:17:45.820 originated in Marxism.

00:17:48.320 What's interesting

00:17:49.280 is it didn't just

00:17:50.060 originate in Marxism.

00:17:51.320 The end point

00:17:52.240 that this curriculum

00:17:53.880 is designed

00:17:54.740 to teach the kids

00:17:55.580 to go to

00:17:56.280 is Marxism itself.

00:17:57.880 It is designed

00:17:58.580 to tear down capitalism

00:18:00.460 and replace it

00:18:01.420 with communism,

00:18:02.100 replace it with Marxism

00:18:03.460 with government power,

00:18:05.860 although on racial lines.

00:18:07.620 Is that a fair characterization?

00:18:10.940 Yeah, I think it is.

00:18:12.700 And one of the things

00:18:13.420 that I've noticed

00:18:13.880 in my research,

00:18:14.800 you look at critical race theory

00:18:16.840 and you look at their literature,

00:18:17.980 you look at their academic work,

00:18:19.040 and they're always focused

00:18:21.200 on pointing out problems.

00:18:22.720 And I've always asked

00:18:23.440 in the back of my mind,

00:18:24.060 well, what do you want?

00:18:25.160 What are you proposing?

00:18:26.220 What kind of policy solution

00:18:28.200 are you suggesting

00:18:29.160 would solve these problems?

00:18:30.620 And in every case,

00:18:32.300 it is active discrimination,

00:18:35.040 this idea that equality

00:18:37.440 of outcomes

00:18:38.040 must be achieved

00:18:38.820 through government action

00:18:40.040 and government force.

00:18:41.280 It's skepticism

00:18:42.080 about private property,

00:18:43.540 saying that private property

00:18:44.620 actually is a form

00:18:45.860 of whiteness,

00:18:47.140 that actually private property

00:18:48.860 and white identity

00:18:49.580 are inextricably linked.

00:18:50.940 And in order to reduce

00:18:51.960 whiteness

00:18:52.600 and white privilege,

00:18:53.720 you have to actually

00:18:54.560 change property arrangements.

00:18:56.120 And then it's

00:18:57.540 someone like Ibram Kendi again

00:18:59.240 who proposes

00:18:59.920 a federal department

00:19:00.960 of anti-racism

00:19:01.860 that's unaccountable

00:19:02.720 to voters,

00:19:03.680 unaccountable to Congress,

00:19:04.840 unaccountable to the executive.

00:19:06.580 And what would

00:19:07.460 that department do?

00:19:08.820 It would have the power

00:19:10.120 to veto,

00:19:11.040 nullify,

00:19:11.480 or abolish any law

00:19:12.580 at any level of government

00:19:13.640 and silence political speech

00:19:15.580 that's not deemed anti-racist.

00:19:17.480 So when you put

00:19:18.240 all of these

00:19:18.700 disparate parts together,

00:19:20.400 you have,

00:19:21.640 again,

00:19:22.500 kind of the end

00:19:23.320 of private property,

00:19:24.400 you have redistribution

00:19:25.260 of land and wealth

00:19:25.980 along racial lines,

00:19:27.080 and then you have

00:19:27.760 an omnipotent

00:19:28.720 federal bureaucracy

00:19:29.480 with the power

00:19:30.500 to suppress speech

00:19:31.460 and the power

00:19:31.900 to invalidate law

00:19:33.080 outside of the confines

00:19:34.860 of our federalist system.

00:19:36.180 It starts looking

00:19:37.400 a lot like a Marxist

00:19:39.300 20th century style state.

00:19:41.060 And you should keep in mind-

00:19:42.440 Look, I gotta say

00:19:42.840 that as you describe

00:19:44.480 the federal department

00:19:46.260 of anti-racism,

00:19:47.320 that is terrifying.

00:19:48.640 And it's not just Marxist,

00:19:49.740 it's profoundly anti-democratic

00:19:51.440 to have some government

00:19:53.060 bureaucrat

00:19:53.700 with the ability

00:19:54.300 to set aside any law

00:19:55.660 he or she doesn't like

00:19:57.380 and to silence

00:19:59.600 and censor speech. 0.98

00:20:02.060 But this nonsense

00:20:03.620 is not just being taught

00:20:05.000 in the schools,

00:20:05.640 although being taught

00:20:06.220 in the schools

00:20:06.640 is dangerous.

00:20:08.380 It's also being taught

00:20:09.520 in corporate America.

00:20:10.300 It's also being taught

00:20:11.180 in the federal government.

00:20:11.920 It's also being taught

00:20:13.140 in the military.

00:20:13.800 Is that right?

00:20:15.120 Yeah, that's right.

00:20:15.700 I've reported

00:20:16.200 on all of those domains.

00:20:17.660 I mean,

00:20:18.100 started last year

00:20:19.080 with a series of reports

00:20:19.840 I did on the federal government.

00:20:21.440 So give us some examples.

00:20:23.060 Yeah, so I'll give you

00:20:23.900 some examples.

00:20:25.000 The example that I like

00:20:26.840 to tell is

00:20:27.380 Sandia National Laboratories,

00:20:29.520 which is a federally

00:20:30.660 affiliated laboratory

00:20:31.660 that designs

00:20:32.380 America's nuclear arsenal.

00:20:34.440 So the actual

00:20:35.020 nuclear weapons

00:20:36.440 that we have

00:20:37.560 to keep our country safe.

00:20:38.960 They sent

00:20:39.780 their white male executives

00:20:41.040 to a three-day

00:20:41.960 white male privilege

00:20:43.480 re-education camp.

00:20:45.060 They sent them

00:20:45.760 to a resort

00:20:46.660 down in New Mexico

00:20:47.560 and they had them

00:20:49.040 deconstruct

00:20:50.120 their white male identities.

00:20:51.080 They had them

00:20:51.840 read and recite

00:20:53.040 white male privilege statements.

00:20:55.120 Then they had them

00:20:55.660 write letters of apology

00:20:57.560 to fictitious women

00:20:58.820 and people of color.

00:21:00.100 The idea is that

00:21:01.120 breaking down

00:21:02.440 their identity

00:21:03.320 in order for them

00:21:04.220 to be

00:21:04.900 kind of

00:21:05.420 softer

00:21:06.660 and more open

00:21:07.460 to absorbing

00:21:08.200 this ideology.

00:21:09.480 And

00:21:09.600 some of these things,

00:21:11.280 if you look at them,

00:21:11.920 you say,

00:21:12.120 well, you know,

00:21:12.720 this is one crazy training.

00:21:14.360 This is

00:21:14.800 something that was

00:21:16.800 probably well-intentioned,

00:21:17.740 but it went awry.

00:21:18.440 But then I started

00:21:20.000 doing reporting

00:21:20.700 at, I think,

00:21:21.680 now more than

00:21:22.100 a dozen federal agencies.

00:21:23.620 I'm sure it's now

00:21:24.180 almost every federal agency,

00:21:25.800 including very important places,

00:21:27.440 like the Treasury Department,

00:21:29.040 like Homeland Security,

00:21:30.260 like the FBI,

00:21:31.440 like West Point Military Academy.

00:21:33.100 All of these

00:21:33.920 institutions

00:21:35.820 that most Americans

00:21:36.780 had faith in

00:21:37.960 have been

00:21:39.020 really,

00:21:40.400 really infected

00:21:42.220 with this ideology

00:21:43.140 and really

00:21:43.900 have started

00:21:44.920 to adopt

00:21:45.620 it as their own.

00:21:46.840 And I think

00:21:47.200 over the short term,

00:21:48.640 it makes for

00:21:49.180 a splashy headline,

00:21:50.480 but over the long term,

00:21:51.740 it's something

00:21:52.080 that is

00:21:52.420 very dangerous

00:21:53.500 for our country.

00:21:54.960 So, Chris,

00:21:55.400 let me play devil's advocate

00:21:56.520 for a second here.

00:21:59.280 This past week,

00:22:00.900 General Mark Milley,

00:22:01.800 who's the chairman

00:22:02.200 of the Joint Chiefs of Staff,

00:22:04.100 was testifying

00:22:05.080 in Congress

00:22:05.720 and made a lot of news.

00:22:06.980 And I know

00:22:07.660 General Milley well.

00:22:08.720 I like him.

00:22:09.860 He's a Princeton grad.

00:22:11.080 He actually

00:22:11.500 is the only

00:22:12.540 general officer

00:22:13.280 in the military

00:22:13.800 that is a Princeton grad.

00:22:14.920 And I got to know him

00:22:16.400 when he was

00:22:16.800 the commanding officer

00:22:17.640 of Fort Hood in Texas,

00:22:19.520 when he was

00:22:20.080 a three-star general,

00:22:20.960 before he had gone up

00:22:22.180 to be chairman

00:22:22.780 of the Joint Chiefs.

00:22:23.680 But General Milley

00:22:24.600 kind of vented

00:22:25.840 and he was under

00:22:27.620 questioning in the House

00:22:28.680 and he said

00:22:29.540 he was offended

00:22:30.420 that people were

00:22:32.040 criticizing the military

00:22:33.440 as woke.

00:22:34.880 And the argument

00:22:35.540 he gave is,

00:22:36.620 I've read Karl Marx,

00:22:37.780 but that doesn't

00:22:38.400 make me a communist.

00:22:39.680 So,

00:22:40.440 what's the response

00:22:42.200 to, well,

00:22:43.220 what's wrong

00:22:43.760 with reading

00:22:44.140 some of this stuff?

00:22:45.600 Yeah,

00:22:45.900 I mean,

00:22:46.280 there's a really

00:22:47.120 important distinction,

00:22:48.140 right?

00:22:48.380 It's like,

00:22:48.880 I read a lot

00:22:49.440 of critical race theory.

00:22:50.340 I think it's important

00:22:51.100 to read.

00:22:51.540 I think it's totally

00:22:52.200 fine to read

00:22:52.940 in the context

00:22:53.620 of a college classroom.

00:22:55.280 But there's

00:22:55.820 two different ways

00:22:57.520 you can approach it.

00:22:58.180 You can approach it

00:22:58.820 as one perspective

00:23:00.360 among many

00:23:01.380 where you have

00:23:01.880 a reasoned debate,

00:23:02.880 where you look

00:23:03.260 at its flaws,

00:23:04.020 you look at its benefits,

00:23:05.440 and then you try

00:23:06.180 to come to a better

00:23:07.060 understanding of the world

00:23:08.040 by comparing

00:23:08.900 a variety of subjects.

00:23:10.600 The other way

00:23:11.240 is to really use it

00:23:12.160 as a form

00:23:13.100 of indoctrination

00:23:13.900 to compelling people

00:23:15.320 to believe,

00:23:16.220 to forcing them

00:23:17.120 to believe in this,

00:23:17.980 to presenting it

00:23:18.640 not as one perspective

00:23:19.600 among many,

00:23:20.760 but as the truth,

00:23:21.840 as dogma.

00:23:23.020 So,

00:23:23.360 there's a difference

00:23:24.080 between, say,

00:23:24.900 West Point

00:23:25.480 having a survey class

00:23:27.060 of, you know,

00:23:28.620 different views

00:23:29.660 of race in America

00:23:30.980 and including this

00:23:32.100 among many different views

00:23:33.560 and also reading

00:23:34.720 Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

00:23:36.840 and Booker T. Washington

00:23:38.120 and Frederick Douglass.

00:23:39.220 And in that context,

00:23:40.380 a survey class,

00:23:41.300 this could be

00:23:42.200 reasonably included

00:23:44.160 as among the views

00:23:45.660 there are.

00:23:46.200 That's very different

00:23:47.000 from, say,

00:23:48.140 a training program

00:23:49.300 that you're forcing

00:23:50.360 young 18, 19,

00:23:51.980 20-year-old

00:23:52.860 soldiers and sailors

00:23:54.200 and airmen and marines

00:23:55.460 to complete

00:23:56.440 this training program

00:23:57.540 in order to be able

00:23:58.420 to serve in the military.

00:24:00.420 Yeah, that's right.

00:24:01.100 And I think

00:24:01.720 from some of the documents

00:24:02.760 that I've seen

00:24:03.780 from within

00:24:04.280 the United States military,

00:24:05.320 it's not presenting it

00:24:06.920 as a survey.

00:24:07.700 It's not presenting it

00:24:08.400 as one perspective

00:24:09.080 of many.

00:24:09.640 It's saying,

00:24:10.000 this is the ideology

00:24:11.560 of the U.S. Army

00:24:12.820 or the Marine Corps

00:24:13.740 or West Point Military Academy.

00:24:15.880 These are the books

00:24:16.580 you need to read.

00:24:17.480 It's Robin DiAngelo.

00:24:19.520 It's Ibram Kendi.

00:24:20.640 It's this new gospel

00:24:21.840 of critical race theory

00:24:22.880 that they're presenting

00:24:23.540 as this kind of thing

00:24:25.680 that you need to believe,

00:24:27.360 not, again,

00:24:28.320 a competing perspective.

00:24:29.380 I think it's also

00:24:30.160 very different

00:24:30.760 when you're talking

00:24:31.700 about kids,

00:24:32.460 when you're talking

00:24:32.920 about a K-12 education.

00:24:35.320 Where, again,

00:24:36.660 it's different.

00:24:37.220 It's presented

00:24:37.720 not as an academic subject,

00:24:40.640 but it's presented

00:24:41.560 as a kind of method

00:24:42.620 of indoctrination.

00:24:43.680 And I think that's why

00:24:44.420 you're seeing millions

00:24:45.040 of parents rise up

00:24:46.380 to say,

00:24:46.680 hey, look,

00:24:47.460 we want to have

00:24:48.480 a discussion

00:24:48.940 about these issues.

00:24:49.860 We want to work

00:24:50.920 on these issues.

00:24:51.740 But what we don't want

00:24:52.740 is a one-sided,

00:24:54.060 manipulative,

00:24:55.100 kind of Marxism-based

00:24:56.580 curriculum

00:24:57.000 that is being forced

00:24:58.400 down our children's throats

00:24:59.560 despite the fact

00:25:01.300 that the parents,

00:25:02.440 the people

00:25:02.740 who actually are invested

00:25:03.880 in these schools

00:25:04.460 and pay for these schools

00:25:05.380 disagree with this stuff

00:25:07.120 and it violates

00:25:07.800 their conscience.

00:25:08.900 And it's worth

00:25:09.400 pointing out,

00:25:10.060 a third-grade classroom

00:25:11.260 is not exactly

00:25:12.140 a free marketplace

00:25:12.960 of ideas.

00:25:14.200 You know,

00:25:14.660 whatever you might have

00:25:15.640 in a graduate seminar

00:25:16.580 or even undergraduate,

00:25:18.980 really,

00:25:19.660 what you're teaching

00:25:21.100 to eight-year-olds

00:25:22.120 is this is true

00:25:23.580 and this is false,

00:25:24.460 right?

00:25:24.580 You're giving them

00:25:25.080 rudimentary education

00:25:26.660 so that they can think

00:25:27.740 later on in more complex ways.

00:25:29.220 And I think you're

00:25:29.720 absolutely right, Chris.

00:25:30.700 This is not,

00:25:32.380 though there are many

00:25:33.360 defenders of CRT

00:25:34.520 who are trying to pretend

00:25:35.680 that this is just

00:25:36.320 one idea among many

00:25:37.220 in a free marketplace

00:25:37.900 of ideas,

00:25:38.480 it's not how it's being taught.

00:25:40.260 And as you also point out,

00:25:42.560 Senator,

00:25:43.260 the fact that this has made it

00:25:44.840 into the U.S. military,

00:25:46.500 the fact that officers

00:25:47.520 are being told

00:25:48.140 to imbibe this stuff

00:25:49.320 and are being encouraged

00:25:50.520 to treat it

00:25:51.620 as the gospel truth

00:25:52.620 rather than just

00:25:53.940 as some crazy idea

00:25:54.880 among many,

00:25:55.540 the fact that this has

00:25:56.320 infiltrated corporate boardrooms,

00:25:57.860 that this has infiltrated

00:25:59.060 so many institutions,

00:26:00.700 in our country,

00:26:01.860 it does make you

00:26:02.960 almost lose hope.

00:26:03.980 And I wonder,

00:26:04.740 is there any glimmer

00:26:05.800 of hope here?

00:26:06.580 It's very strange

00:26:07.620 that I think probably

00:26:09.180 the majority of Americans

00:26:10.300 disagree with this

00:26:11.380 kind of stuff.

00:26:12.440 You see a lot of parents

00:26:13.520 rushing to their school boards

00:26:14.700 and yet all of the

00:26:16.000 powerful institutions

00:26:17.220 seem uniformly

00:26:18.840 to be pushing it.

00:26:20.480 Yeah, I'm an optimist.

00:26:21.780 I'm very hopeful about this.

00:26:23.060 And I think that

00:26:23.820 what I'm seeing

00:26:25.060 on the ground,

00:26:25.740 what I'm seeing

00:26:26.380 in hundreds of emails

00:26:27.420 every day

00:26:28.020 is people,

00:26:29.060 are people from

00:26:29.700 all walks of life,

00:26:30.820 people from a variety

00:26:31.480 of racial backgrounds,

00:26:32.600 people from all over

00:26:33.120 the country

00:26:33.620 that are starting

00:26:34.840 to rise up to say,

00:26:36.080 wait a minute,

00:26:36.920 I don't want this

00:26:37.600 in my kid's school.

00:26:38.760 I don't want this

00:26:39.260 in my church.

00:26:39.900 I don't want this

00:26:40.300 in my local government.

00:26:41.500 I don't want this

00:26:42.200 being pushed

00:26:42.800 by the U.S. Congress.

00:26:44.020 And what I think

00:26:45.160 we're seeing every day

00:26:46.340 is a new video

00:26:47.280 of hundreds of parents

00:26:48.480 showing up

00:26:48.880 at a school board meeting,

00:26:49.760 getting activated,

00:26:51.000 really pushing

00:26:51.620 on this issue.

00:26:52.860 And, you know,

00:26:53.440 I talk with a lot

00:26:54.060 of local

00:26:54.860 and state legislators

00:26:55.960 and they're telling me

00:26:56.960 that when they're out

00:26:57.640 there in their districts,

00:26:59.140 this is the number

00:27:00.120 one issue

00:27:00.620 that they get

00:27:01.200 when they're doorbelling

00:27:02.360 or going door-to-door

00:27:03.260 or speaking at events.

00:27:04.540 People really care

00:27:05.480 about this.

00:27:06.380 I know that some people

00:27:07.320 are saying this has

00:27:08.180 the same kind of energy

00:27:09.340 as the 94

00:27:11.080 Congressional Revolution

00:27:12.640 or 2010,

00:27:14.260 the Tea Party Revolution.

00:27:15.800 There's something

00:27:16.600 happening

00:27:17.120 in the grassroots

00:27:18.060 of this country

00:27:19.000 that people

00:27:20.140 are being energized

00:27:21.120 by this.

00:27:21.800 They're being focused.

00:27:22.620 They're being engaged

00:27:23.300 in many cases

00:27:24.240 for the first time

00:27:24.900 in politics.

00:27:26.180 And I don't think

00:27:27.180 the institutional responses

00:27:28.240 have been,

00:27:29.140 frankly,

00:27:29.340 very strong.

00:27:30.340 You see all of the media

00:27:31.400 running cover.

00:27:32.180 You see them playing

00:27:32.760 language games.

00:27:33.600 You see them retreating

00:27:34.500 from critical race theory.

00:27:35.980 None of those strategies

00:27:37.080 are going to hold

00:27:37.740 because people know

00:27:38.900 what's being taught

00:27:39.640 to their kids.

00:27:40.720 People have a visceral

00:27:41.820 and intuitive understanding

00:27:43.040 of what this ideology

00:27:44.120 is trying to accomplish.

00:27:45.660 And we're seeing

00:27:46.720 a critical race theory revolt

00:27:48.740 all over this country

00:27:50.300 that gives me

00:27:50.920 an immense amount of hope.

00:27:52.760 And I think that,

00:27:53.480 look,

00:27:53.620 if Brooklyn and Berkeley

00:27:55.720 want to do critical race theory

00:27:57.100 in their K-12 schools,

00:27:58.180 that's fine.

00:27:59.000 That's their right.

00:28:00.080 But I think we're looking

00:28:00.940 at somewhere between

00:28:01.920 70 and 80 percent

00:28:03.160 of Americans

00:28:03.720 that we could rally

00:28:04.660 into opposition

00:28:05.740 on this issue.

00:28:06.920 And I think that's

00:28:07.580 a starting point

00:28:08.180 for incredible success.

00:28:10.780 So, Chris,

00:28:11.080 if someone wants

00:28:11.680 to learn more,

00:28:13.040 where do we go?

00:28:14.340 Where can someone go

00:28:15.600 to learn more

00:28:16.480 about what this is,

00:28:18.560 where it's being taught,

00:28:20.140 and what to do about it?

00:28:21.500 Yeah, I've put together

00:28:22.880 a critical race theory

00:28:23.900 briefing book.

00:28:24.640 So if you just search Google

00:28:25.740 Christopher Rufo

00:28:26.700 critical race theory

00:28:27.520 briefing book

00:28:28.180 or CRT briefing book,

00:28:30.120 I've provided anything

00:28:31.540 that you'll need

00:28:32.380 to get started

00:28:33.140 to engage on this issue,

00:28:34.120 whether you're a parent,

00:28:35.400 whether you're

00:28:35.660 a local legislator,

00:28:36.840 whether you care about this

00:28:37.820 in the workplace.

00:28:38.800 So I have definitions.

00:28:39.820 I have key concepts

00:28:41.040 and quotations.

00:28:41.880 I have stories

00:28:42.620 about where it's being taught

00:28:43.660 in schools.

00:28:45.020 I also have suggestions

00:28:46.180 for language

00:28:46.900 that's successful

00:28:47.740 in winning on this issue,

00:28:48.860 as well as some

00:28:49.980 model legislation.

00:28:51.060 So that's where

00:28:52.500 I'd recommend you go.

00:28:53.740 You can always reach out to me.

00:28:55.040 I'm happy to help

00:28:55.720 put you in connection

00:28:57.100 with other people

00:28:58.040 that are working

00:28:58.420 on this issue.

00:28:59.400 I think it's just

00:29:00.500 a tremendously

00:29:01.020 important thing right now,

00:29:02.500 and I encourage everyone

00:29:03.340 to get involved.

00:29:04.100 Certainly is.

00:29:04.880 Chris, we have got

00:29:06.220 to get to the mailbag now,

00:29:07.200 so I will not have you

00:29:08.880 sit around and answer

00:29:09.940 the difficult,

00:29:11.300 impossible questions

00:29:12.460 from our listeners,

00:29:13.580 though I'm sure

00:29:13.900 you could do it

00:29:14.480 because you really

00:29:15.520 have done such a service

00:29:17.300 with your writing

00:29:18.260 over at City Journal

00:29:19.120 and your work

00:29:20.280 on really making

00:29:21.400 this issue

00:29:22.340 come into stark relief.

00:29:23.880 Christopher Ruffo,

00:29:24.640 thank you for being

00:29:25.140 on the show.

00:29:26.280 Thank you.

00:29:27.580 Before we get

00:29:28.620 to the mailbag,

00:29:29.560 I am so pleased

00:29:30.640 to announce

00:29:31.200 that we are now

00:29:32.280 finalizing the dates

00:29:33.800 for Verdict Live.

00:29:35.840 We are taking

00:29:36.400 Verdict with Ted Cruz

00:29:37.420 on the road

00:29:38.380 in partnership

00:29:38.980 with the Young

00:29:39.480 America's Foundation.

00:29:41.060 We will be coming

00:29:41.780 to a school near you

00:29:42.760 or maybe even

00:29:43.540 to your school,

00:29:44.380 but you will need

00:29:45.500 to request that.

00:29:47.380 So you can go

00:29:47.740 to yaf.org

00:29:50.160 slash verdict

00:29:51.360 and apply

00:29:52.420 to have your school

00:29:53.340 be one of the spots.

00:29:54.940 Deadline to apply

00:29:55.480 is August 18th.

00:29:57.000 Senator,

00:29:57.700 we're taking this thing live.

00:29:59.080 We're going to go

00:29:59.440 meet people in real life.

00:30:01.280 We're headed out

00:30:02.520 on the road

00:30:03.060 to college campuses.

00:30:04.160 We'll have an auditorium.

00:30:05.660 We'll film it live.

00:30:06.960 We will have,

00:30:07.980 hopefully,

00:30:09.240 some friendly questions,

00:30:10.600 some hostile questions,

00:30:11.740 and it's really

00:30:13.040 up to the listeners

00:30:14.220 of Verdict,

00:30:15.280 where we should go.

00:30:16.600 You know,

00:30:16.820 should we go to places

00:30:17.920 that are oases of truth

00:30:20.980 and have people

00:30:21.760 that they're used

00:30:22.780 to hearing about

00:30:23.940 life, liberty,

00:30:25.660 and the pursuit

00:30:26.100 of happiness,

00:30:26.580 or do we go to

00:30:28.060 places of communist

00:30:29.600 indoctrination

00:30:30.560 where we're going

00:30:31.680 behind the Iron Curtain

00:30:33.000 and we might have to

00:30:34.900 have a subversive effort

00:30:36.260 to come in?

00:30:37.360 I don't know.

00:30:38.060 We're asking you,

00:30:39.140 the reader,

00:30:39.660 let us know

00:30:40.540 where you think

00:30:42.180 Verdict should be filmed

00:30:43.700 and we're going

00:30:44.480 to have fun regardless.

00:30:45.520 We absolutely are.

00:30:46.740 We could even head

00:30:47.380 to the University

00:30:48.060 of East Berlin,

00:30:49.040 also known as Berkeley

00:30:50.420 in California.

00:30:52.000 There are a lot of schools

00:30:53.100 we could go to

00:30:53.600 and hopefully we'll be able

00:30:54.300 to do a combination.

00:30:55.480 So you can apply

00:30:56.540 to host us

00:30:58.160 at your school.

00:30:58.720 That will be

00:30:59.020 yaf.org

00:30:59.900 slash verdict.

00:31:00.920 Get those applications

00:31:01.740 in by August 18th.

00:31:03.380 That is the deadline

00:31:04.360 and we're going to be

00:31:05.060 looking forward to it.

00:31:06.360 And now,

00:31:06.840 before we see you live,

00:31:07.800 we will answer your questions

00:31:09.140 in the mailbag.

00:31:10.140 All right.

00:31:10.480 This question,

00:31:11.760 completely out of left field,

00:31:12.820 but it's from our colleague

00:31:14.300 on this show

00:31:14.960 who is sitting right behind you,

00:31:16.640 Real Truth Cactus,

00:31:17.860 who writes,

00:31:19.040 what are some conservative arguments

00:31:20.880 for environmental practices?

00:31:23.300 We all hear the sun monster

00:31:24.640 is going to kill us, 0.96

00:31:25.700 but as conservatives,

00:31:27.260 do we not also wish

00:31:28.680 to conserve our planet?

00:31:30.420 Where is the balance?

00:31:32.400 I think that's a great question

00:31:33.800 and I think a lot of conservatives

00:31:35.180 are really timid

00:31:36.680 when it comes to discussing

00:31:37.900 environmental issues.

00:31:39.320 All of us breathe.

00:31:41.060 All of us drink water.

00:31:42.760 All of us presumably,

00:31:44.320 and you're drinking,

00:31:45.320 I think, coffee or vodka,

00:31:47.020 whatever you're drinking right there.

00:31:47.980 Both, actually.

00:31:49.740 There you go.

00:31:50.880 But, you know,

00:31:51.420 water is at its base.

00:31:52.980 Look, all of us would like

00:31:54.140 for our kids

00:31:54.760 to be able to breathe

00:31:55.780 and drink water.

00:31:56.580 We'd like for our grandkids

00:31:57.540 to be able to breathe

00:31:58.680 and drink water.

00:32:01.340 Protecting the environment,

00:32:02.780 you know,

00:32:02.940 you look at Teddy Roosevelt,

00:32:05.000 who was one of the first

00:32:06.400 great conservationists

00:32:07.720 and environmentalists.

00:32:09.000 We have a responsibility

00:32:10.060 to protect the environment.

00:32:11.460 What does that mean?

00:32:12.580 That means fighting pollution.

00:32:13.900 Fighting pollution

00:32:14.540 is a good and noble role.

00:32:18.740 It is an important

00:32:19.520 governmental function.

00:32:21.700 We don't want to see

00:32:22.520 factories pouring

00:32:23.940 a bunch of gunk

00:32:25.340 into the rivers

00:32:26.060 or into the air

00:32:26.960 that make people sick.

00:32:29.100 All of that is legitimate.

00:32:31.020 It's not where

00:32:31.940 today's environmentalist movement is.

00:32:34.500 Today's environmentalist movement

00:32:36.100 is focused on shutting down production.

00:32:38.820 So it's not,

00:32:40.180 if the test is,

00:32:41.640 is the air cleaner

00:32:42.520 and is the water cleaner,

00:32:43.840 then you can actually tell

00:32:45.440 an amazing story

00:32:47.080 because as American ingenuity

00:32:51.100 has moved forward,

00:32:52.260 we have cleaned the air

00:32:53.160 and cleaned the water dramatically.

00:32:55.220 Last year,

00:32:56.300 the year 2020,

00:32:58.340 what country had

00:32:59.460 the greatest reduction

00:33:00.620 of carbon emissions

00:33:01.540 of any country on earth?

00:33:03.180 Answer,

00:33:04.060 the United States of America.

00:33:05.220 By far,

00:33:06.280 not even close.

00:33:08.200 And what caused that?

00:33:09.560 What caused that primarily

00:33:11.000 was the shale revolution

00:33:13.200 and the incredible abundance

00:33:16.120 of natural gas we have.

00:33:17.880 And we've seen

00:33:18.760 a large scale shift

00:33:20.420 from electricity production

00:33:22.160 from coal to natural gas.

00:33:25.420 Natural gas is a much cleaner way

00:33:27.420 to produce electricity than coal.

00:33:29.120 And so we've seen

00:33:30.340 not just carbon emissions going down,

00:33:31.920 but pollutants going down

00:33:32.960 by dramatic numbers.

00:33:34.140 Now, here's the weird thing

00:33:36.080 about environmentalists

00:33:37.180 on the left.

00:33:38.740 You would think

00:33:39.840 if the goal is a cleaner environment,

00:33:41.520 you'd be celebrating that.

00:33:42.580 You'd say that's a good thing.

00:33:43.700 What the environmentalists

00:33:44.580 on the left are trying to do

00:33:45.580 is shut down natural gas.

00:33:48.200 Shut down natural gas,

00:33:49.600 destroy American production.

00:33:51.480 And ironically,

00:33:52.120 they also want to shut down

00:33:53.380 U.S. oil,

00:33:55.260 which then makes us

00:33:56.920 more dependent on foreign oil,

00:33:58.720 all of which is produced

00:33:59.920 in a dirtier way.

00:34:00.820 So you end up hurting

00:34:02.980 the environment more.

00:34:04.260 And today's environmental movement

00:34:07.060 on the left

00:34:07.760 is an ideology

00:34:09.300 where actually clean air

00:34:10.920 and clean water

00:34:11.720 is really low on the priority list.

00:34:14.880 Stopping human production,

00:34:17.460 stopping new businesses,

00:34:18.720 stopping new residential developments,

00:34:20.800 stopping new economic,

00:34:22.640 stopping jobs

00:34:23.600 is their priority.

00:34:25.600 And you've got zealots

00:34:26.800 who view economic development

00:34:29.720 inherently as an evil.

00:34:31.860 Look, most of us think

00:34:33.080 jobs are good.

00:34:34.000 We'd like to have clean air

00:34:34.860 and clean water too

00:34:35.740 and have jobs.

00:34:37.020 You can do both

00:34:37.820 if you actually employ

00:34:38.880 some common sense.

00:34:41.080 The radical left

00:34:43.140 on the environment

00:34:43.860 is not interested

00:34:44.580 in common sense.

00:34:45.640 Yeah, there does seem

00:34:46.500 to be something

00:34:47.240 a little misanthropic

00:34:48.400 about it all.

00:34:49.140 I don't want to,

00:34:50.020 you know,

00:34:50.660 read into our opponent's

00:34:52.920 thought process here

00:34:54.180 or anything,

00:34:54.500 but it did sometimes seem

00:34:56.360 when I was living in California

00:34:57.620 as though the left

00:34:58.840 valued the Delta smelt

00:35:00.320 more than they did

00:35:01.340 working families

00:35:02.200 who were trying to have jobs

00:35:03.740 and people were trying

00:35:04.340 to pay for energy prices

00:35:05.460 and ironically,

00:35:06.880 so many of their policies

00:35:07.920 actually were harmful

00:35:09.580 ultimately to the environment.

00:35:11.340 Next question from Ben

00:35:12.540 is for me.

00:35:13.300 Ben writes,

00:35:14.080 will your next book

00:35:15.020 be titled Shameless

00:35:16.240 because of your shameful plugs

00:35:18.620 of Speechless?

00:35:20.200 Yes, it will be.

00:35:22.040 That is if I ever

00:35:22.880 write a book again.

00:35:23.740 Senator,

00:35:24.000 I know you've written

00:35:24.700 multiple books with words.

00:35:26.440 I frankly am sick

00:35:27.440 of writing a book with words.

00:35:28.900 It's much too hard,

00:35:29.860 so I'll probably return

00:35:30.860 to my former magnum opus.

00:35:33.760 The final question

00:35:34.860 is for you

00:35:35.800 from E.M. Taylor.

00:35:38.340 Senator Cruz,

00:35:39.460 can you explain standing

00:35:41.240 and why does this not apply

00:35:43.380 in the DOJ case

00:35:44.940 against Georgia voting laws?

00:35:46.720 So I bring up this question

00:35:48.800 because I want,

00:35:50.600 on the next episode,

00:35:51.380 I want to get into

00:35:52.100 some legal questions

00:35:53.480 that are very much

00:35:54.080 in the news right now.

00:35:55.180 This one just came up.

00:35:56.300 The DOJ is suing Georgia

00:35:58.960 because of Georgia's

00:36:00.360 voter integrity law.

00:36:01.320 They're saying

00:36:01.640 that this is discriminatory

00:36:03.140 and the federal government

00:36:04.080 is going to go in

00:36:04.900 and stop Georgia 0.75

00:36:06.040 from passing laws

00:36:07.080 to protect their own vote.

00:36:08.440 And because I know

00:36:09.300 absolutely nothing

00:36:10.160 about the law

00:36:10.840 and did not go to law school,

00:36:11.920 Senator,

00:36:12.460 can you please explain it for us?

00:36:14.300 Sure.

00:36:14.560 Two related concepts.

00:36:17.940 One,

00:36:18.520 in order for a court

00:36:19.860 to be able to decide a case,

00:36:21.820 it has to be

00:36:22.480 what's called

00:36:22.900 a case or controversy.

00:36:24.900 It has to be a live dispute

00:36:26.540 between real parties.

00:36:28.140 It can't just be

00:36:29.640 a request for judges

00:36:31.720 to issue an advisory opinion

00:36:33.360 on a question of law.

00:36:36.120 An element of that,

00:36:37.620 one element of that

00:36:38.360 is that you've got

00:36:38.860 to have a real injury.

00:36:40.580 But another element of that

00:36:42.020 is that you've got to have

00:36:43.440 a plaintiff with standing

00:36:45.480 and standing put simply

00:36:46.880 is essentially

00:36:47.660 someone with a beef in it,

00:36:49.620 someone who's got

00:36:50.560 something at stake.

00:36:51.440 So,

00:36:52.400 listen,

00:36:54.600 if

00:36:54.720 you,

00:36:58.220 your book publisher

00:36:59.520 breaks

00:37:00.420 its contract with you

00:37:03.540 and says,

00:37:04.820 Michael,

00:37:05.120 we're tired of publishing books

00:37:06.520 with no words,

00:37:07.720 we're not going to send you

00:37:08.760 any royalty checks.

00:37:10.440 Fair enough.

00:37:10.760 Now,

00:37:11.060 I might look at that

00:37:12.060 and say,

00:37:13.000 that is ridiculous.

00:37:15.040 Michael is,

00:37:16.400 the poor guy

00:37:17.180 is a starving Yaley.

00:37:18.760 He depends upon

00:37:19.780 these royalty checks

00:37:20.920 to buy his skinny jeans

00:37:23.420 and his,

00:37:24.520 you know,

00:37:25.680 the outfits he wears

00:37:26.780 on verdict.

00:37:27.820 And so I'm really upset

00:37:28.980 they're not paying it.

00:37:30.320 Well,

00:37:30.620 as upset as I might be,

00:37:32.160 I don't have standing

00:37:33.160 to sue over breach

00:37:34.000 of contract.

00:37:34.600 It's not,

00:37:34.920 I'm not a party

00:37:35.480 to the contract.

00:37:36.300 I,

00:37:36.880 you have standing

00:37:37.980 to sue.

00:37:38.460 If they breach

00:37:39.060 a contract with you,

00:37:39.900 you have standing

00:37:40.660 to sue

00:37:41.140 because you've suffered

00:37:42.760 an injury

00:37:43.380 and you're actually

00:37:44.260 a party

00:37:45.860 to the,

00:37:46.680 in this case,

00:37:47.420 the contract.

00:37:49.120 So the question is,

00:37:50.480 why does the United States

00:37:51.660 have standing

00:37:52.340 to sue Georgia?

00:37:54.160 In this instance,

00:37:55.480 they sued Georgia

00:37:56.580 under Section 2

00:37:58.000 of the Voting Rights Act

00:37:59.060 and that is a statute

00:38:01.820 that Congress passed

00:38:03.040 to protect voting rights

00:38:04.940 and it actually gives

00:38:06.240 the Attorney General

00:38:07.320 the authority

00:38:08.840 to bring suits

00:38:09.740 to enforce the law.

00:38:10.860 And so in the role

00:38:11.780 as the chief lawyer

00:38:13.460 for the United States

00:38:14.360 of America,

00:38:14.940 the Attorney General

00:38:16.400 has the authority

00:38:17.260 under the Voting Rights Act

00:38:18.280 to bring suits.

00:38:19.580 Now,

00:38:19.700 I think the suit

00:38:20.240 is not meritorious

00:38:21.220 and I think we're going

00:38:21.680 to discuss that

00:38:22.380 on a subsequent verdict.

00:38:24.940 But in terms of standing,

00:38:27.000 the way the Voting Rights Act

00:38:28.040 is written,

00:38:29.200 the Department of Justice

00:38:30.180 has standing

00:38:31.020 to bring a case

00:38:32.020 to enforce Section 2

00:38:33.480 of the Voting Rights Act.

00:38:34.440 All right.

00:38:34.860 That's just a little teaser

00:38:36.160 for something talking about.

00:38:37.600 Yes,

00:38:38.180 that's the argument

00:38:39.040 from the federal government

00:38:40.060 and we will knock down

00:38:41.560 why it's a very bad idea

00:38:42.960 to go in and upend

00:38:44.980 this voting rights law

00:38:46.560 in Georgia.

00:38:47.640 But not this time.

00:38:48.560 We run out of time, Senator.

00:38:50.040 Thank you as always.

00:38:51.460 And by the way,

00:38:52.240 I think all of the listeners

00:38:53.580 of Verdict

00:38:54.080 would have standing

00:38:54.740 if I could no longer

00:38:55.620 afford my skinny jeans.

00:38:56.820 I think that would greatly injure

00:38:57.960 all of the viewers out there.

00:38:59.760 But we'll discuss it coming up.

00:39:01.040 I'm Michael Knowles.

00:39:01.680 This is Verdict

00:39:02.340 with Ted Cruz.

00:39:10.520 This episode of Verdict

00:39:12.140 with Ted Cruz

00:39:13.040 is being brought to you

00:39:14.060 by Jobs, Freedom

00:39:15.100 and Security Pack,

00:39:16.420 a political action committee

00:39:17.820 dedicated to supporting

00:39:19.000 conservative causes,

00:39:20.420 organizations

00:39:20.960 and candidates

00:39:21.940 across the country.

00:39:23.000 In 2022,

00:39:24.540 Jobs, Freedom

00:39:25.180 and Security Pack

00:39:26.180 plans to donate

00:39:27.040 to conservative candidates

00:39:28.340 running for Congress

00:39:29.400 and help the Republican Party

00:39:31.040 across the nation.

00:39:32.820 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:39:35.160 Guaranteed Human.

Verdict with Ted Cruz - July 01, 2021

The Poisoning of the American Mind ft. Christopher Rufo

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