Verdict with Ted Cruz - August 16, 2023


Trump Indictment #4...Everything You Need to Know about the Latest Weaponization of Politics


Episode Stats

Misogynist Sentences

21

Hate Speech Sentences

6


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.
00:00:05.280 Welcome.
00:00:06.120 It is verdict to Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you.
00:00:09.520 And Senator, the big headline, Donald Trump's been indicted again just a couple of days
00:00:14.940 after more bad news came out about the Biden crime family.
00:00:18.180 It's at least we can predict it now.
00:00:20.640 It's like clockwork.
00:00:21.920 Your overall reaction to Trump indictment 4.0, which if he gets everything right, the
00:00:29.680 whole table they run on him, and he's convicted of everything, he'll be in jail for like 740
00:00:34.760 something years.
00:00:36.980 Well, I think it's absolutely ridiculous, and it is sadly predictable.
00:00:41.000 It has become like clockwork.
00:00:42.700 Every time bad news comes out about Joe Biden or Hunter Biden, every time additional evidence
00:00:48.080 comes out of corruption on the part of Joe Biden, within hours, a new Trump indictment
00:00:55.640 drops.
00:00:56.920 You know, you think back to the halcyon days of a year ago.
00:01:02.440 A year ago, our nation had gone more than two centuries, and we'd never once had a former
00:01:08.840 president or a current president or a current leading candidate for president indicted.
00:01:15.160 We just didn't do that.
00:01:16.160 That was something Banana Republics did.
00:01:19.080 That's something little tin pot dictatorships did.
00:01:21.920 But not the United States of America.
00:01:24.620 We have a representative form of government in which the voters decide, and we don't rely
00:01:31.420 on whoever controls the Department of Justice to use the court system to try to take out
00:01:38.440 your opponents.
00:01:40.000 In the past year, we've crossed that threshold not once, not twice, not three times, but now,
00:01:46.940 as of Monday night, four times.
00:01:50.400 There are four different indictments pending against Donald Trump.
00:01:53.200 One, the most ridiculous of all in New York state court, brought by Alvin Bragg over the
00:01:59.260 alleged hush money to the porn star with whom Trump allegedly had an affair.
00:02:05.760 Another, brought by the special counsel of the Department of Justice, concerns Trump's
00:02:12.280 retention of classified documents.
00:02:14.160 Now, mind you, Joe Biden had classified documents stored all over the place.
00:02:17.920 There is no indictment of Joe Biden for that.
00:02:19.820 This special power only applies to Republicans.
00:02:24.340 Number three was the DOJ special counsel's indictment over January 6th.
00:02:31.000 And then now number four is another state prosecutor, Fannie Willis, an elected Democrat in Georgia.
00:02:37.580 She decided she was going to get in on the fun.
00:02:40.880 And so she brought a sweeping indictment.
00:02:44.760 She brought an indictment with 41 different counts against not just Donald Trump, but 18 other alleged co-conspirators.
00:02:53.340 The heart of the allegation is RICO.
00:02:56.720 Now, RICO is a very powerful law.
00:02:59.080 It's a federal law.
00:02:59.880 But there are state analogs.
00:03:01.920 And she brought this indictment under the Georgia state version of RICO.
00:03:07.420 RICO was designed to get mobsters, to get racketeers.
00:03:13.680 And RICO is a conspiracy law which enables you to prove up the existence of a criminal enterprise
00:03:21.560 and then sweep in everyone involved in the enterprise to very significant criminal liability.
00:03:29.080 As I said, RICO was used most famously and, in fact, was designed to go after the mafia,
00:03:35.600 to go after the Cosa Nostra and to identify foot soldiers on the ground
00:03:40.160 and then use them and flip them to go all the way up to the capos and the godfathers themselves.
00:03:46.060 Well, in this instance, this indictment, it's against Trump and 18 others.
00:03:52.000 It includes a bunch of Trump's lawyers.
00:03:55.060 It includes Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman, Kenneth Chesbrod, Jenna Ellis, Sidney Powell.
00:04:05.720 It also includes Jeffrey Clark, who was a senior Department of Justice official.
00:04:10.100 It includes David Schaefer, who was the head of the Republican Party in Georgia.
00:04:16.060 It is remarkable that the world we're living in now, apparently political disagreements,
00:04:24.880 at least when you're dealing with Democrats in power, are resolved by trying to indict,
00:04:31.260 prosecute, drag through the mud, and put in jail your opponents.
00:04:35.140 But not only that, you don't just do your opponents.
00:04:37.760 You go after their entire legal team.
00:04:39.620 In this instance, virtually all of the lead lawyers for Donald Trump are now being prosecuted,
00:04:47.880 and it seems their principal crime was daring to represent Donald Trump.
00:04:53.240 Now, we've talked before about this podcast, that I think the legal team around Trump
00:04:58.480 should have done a much better job.
00:05:01.680 In particular, when it comes to litigating the election fraud cases across the country,
00:05:06.660 they did not do a very good job laying out the evidence, litigating those cases, and litigating
00:05:14.000 them to victory.
00:05:14.780 And many of the problems we had following that election came from less-than-stellar lawyering.
00:05:21.820 But there's a difference between not doing a tremendously effective job in court,
00:05:27.320 which sadly is not that uncommon, and in this instance, being told that because you represented
00:05:35.060 the president of the other party, the prosecutors are going to try to lock you up,
00:05:41.920 going to try to put you in jail, not only take away your license to practice law,
00:05:46.440 your ability to earn a livelihood, your ability to pay your mortgage, but incarcerate you.
00:05:52.000 I think this is disgraceful.
00:05:54.340 It is nakedly political.
00:06:00.860 And they were celebrating this on TV today.
00:06:03.480 I mean, MSNBC today, they had an entire segment throwing every name up there that you just mentioned,
00:06:09.640 Giuliani, John Eastman, Mark Meadows, Jeffrey Clark, Jenna Ellis, the list goes on and on.
00:06:15.820 And even your former colleague, Claire McCaskill, she said on TV today that she was, quote,
00:06:22.640 very happy that former New York City Mayor Giuliani was indicted in Georgia for his actions
00:06:27.320 after the 2020 presidential election.
00:06:29.120 She said this is a tale of two very different indictments.
00:06:31.960 We have one in the federal system that is lean and mean and targeted on the boss.
00:06:35.440 And then we have Georgia, where this prosecutor has decided that she needs to go after the whole
00:06:40.080 enterprise.
00:06:40.860 And all of this evidence would come in.
00:06:43.060 And the whole barrel of bad apples got indicted.
00:06:45.580 You can't assume in the federal indictment that those unindicted co-conspirators may or
00:06:50.760 may not be cooperating, may or not be charged.
00:06:54.160 You just don't know at this point.
00:06:55.500 But she said, on the other hand, in Georgia, since she indicted so many, you can assume a
00:07:00.680 fair number of those unindicted co-conspirators have cooperated and testified in front of the
00:07:05.940 grand jury.
00:07:06.640 Truthfully, they did not take the fifth.
00:07:08.500 I think the fake electors, there was a lot of them talking, getting immunity, and they
00:07:13.000 didn't.
00:07:13.400 And then she added, I'm just glad to see that, you know, Rudy Giuliani finally got
00:07:17.500 indicted.
00:07:18.300 Then she said, woo-hoo, literally said that.
00:07:21.420 She said, the good news is we finally have Rudy Giuliani indicted.
00:07:24.160 Woo-hoo.
00:07:24.960 That makes me very happy.
00:07:27.020 And of course, everybody on MSNBC was elated by this.
00:07:30.500 Look, they are vicious partisans.
00:07:32.820 One of the things it demonstrates is that they don't value democracy.
00:07:37.700 They don't value the democratic process.
00:07:40.140 Listen, this is all about their fear that if the voters have an opportunity to decide
00:07:46.080 fairly in November of next year, that the voters are going to reject the disastrous
00:07:51.440 agenda and record of Joe Biden and the Democrats.
00:07:54.220 And they look at Donald Trump as the leading Republican right now, and their objective
00:08:00.160 is they want to have these trials before Election Day.
00:08:04.700 Fannie Willis says she wants to have this trial in six months, which is a very rapid pace.
00:08:10.140 It would be right in the middle of the primaries.
00:08:12.500 And I think the Democrats bringing these cases believe, and there's some basis for this, that
00:08:20.360 the indictments make it more and more and more likely Trump wins the primary, which is what
00:08:25.860 the Democrats want.
00:08:27.720 But I think they also believe the indictments make it substantially less likely that he wins
00:08:33.300 the general, and that their objective is to have trial after trial after trial.
00:08:37.740 Now, that means he can't be out there campaigning if he's sitting in a criminal court defending
00:08:41.440 himself.
00:08:41.900 It means he spends tens of millions of dollars.
00:08:45.160 He's already spent over $40 million on legal fees.
00:08:49.280 He's going to spend a whole lot more defending these cases.
00:08:53.040 And they are counting on the useful idiots in the media to put every breathless moment of
00:09:02.160 every trial on the six o'clock news.
00:09:04.980 They don't want to talk about Biden's record.
00:09:08.100 They want to make this entirely about Donald Trump because they believe that that's how they
00:09:14.280 win.
00:09:14.720 But if you look at this indictment in Georgia, in many ways, this indictment could be the
00:09:23.000 most dangerous.
00:09:24.500 It's the most dangerous because, number one, it's a state court indictment.
00:09:31.000 It's under a state law.
00:09:32.280 That means it doesn't fall under federal law.
00:09:36.200 That means if a Republican were to win, a Republican could not order the case shut down.
00:09:43.720 The DOJ cases, a Republican president could shut that down on day one.
00:09:47.920 You can't do that with a state case.
00:09:49.640 The other state case is the New York case.
00:09:52.240 That one is absurd on its face.
00:09:54.320 So it's less of a threat.
00:09:55.840 But this one, RICO is a very powerful law.
00:09:59.760 And so the fact that this partisan Democrat, elected Democrat in a county that is 75-25
00:10:10.760 Democrat, that means the jury pool, just like the D.C. jury pool for Jack Smith's January
00:10:17.900 6th indictment, is going to be overwhelmingly Democrat.
00:10:23.340 It also means that the president's pardon power is largely taken off the table.
00:10:29.180 If a Republican wins in 2024, that Republican president could pardon Donald Trump from any
00:10:35.760 federal offense.
00:10:36.800 But the federal pardon power does not extend to state acts.
00:10:42.260 And so because this is a state prosecution, it pulls it out of that umbrella.
00:10:49.480 And in this instance, Georgia law is unusual because in many states, the governor has a
00:10:56.000 pardon power, much like the president does for federal offenses.
00:10:58.840 In many states, the governor has a pardon power for state offenses.
00:11:03.260 The Georgia law is very circumscribed.
00:11:05.940 So my understanding of the Georgia law is the governor does not have an independent pardon
00:11:11.220 power.
00:11:12.180 It is instead a board of pardons and paroles that is appointed by the governor and confirmed
00:11:17.500 by the state Senate.
00:11:19.080 That board has to recommend a pardon.
00:11:22.180 But the pardon, in turn, does not expunge a criminal conviction under Georgia law.
00:11:29.000 But critically, the board cannot recommend exercise of the pardon power until the defendant has
00:11:38.940 served five years of his prison sentence.
00:11:41.320 So it's a very circumscribed power that that means if this Democrat DA brings the case, gets
00:11:53.280 a conviction in front of a Democrat, overwhelmingly Democrat jury.
00:11:59.080 By the way, the appeal would go up to a Georgia state appellate court and the Georgia Supreme
00:12:06.900 Court.
00:12:07.480 And then ultimately, you could appeal to the U.S.
00:12:09.580 Supreme Court, but you could only appeal on federal issues.
00:12:13.360 And so it's got to be a federal constitutional issue, not a state court issue.
00:12:18.660 I think that certainly would happen.
00:12:20.320 But that process, as we discussed with the Jack Smith indictment, that process could take
00:12:25.200 years.
00:12:26.800 And this is designed to bloody everyone up, to dominate the news, to get Fannie Willis in the
00:12:33.300 news an awful lot.
00:12:34.480 Look, everyone else is getting famous on this.
00:12:36.660 She's running for re-election.
00:12:38.300 People need to understand that as well.
00:12:40.180 This is as much about her raising her name idea, just like everybody knows Alvin Bragg's
00:12:44.720 name in New York now, as it is for her to fundraise and say, vote for me because I'll go after
00:12:49.400 Donald Trump.
00:12:50.060 I'm not afraid of these guys.
00:12:51.680 And I'll lock up my political enemies.
00:12:54.420 It's a very good Democrat campaign issue.
00:12:56.600 Letitia James, the attorney general in New York, has likewise campaigned on that ground.
00:13:03.660 And if you're a Democrat, look, Claire McCaskill, who was always an incredibly partisan Democrat
00:13:11.900 senator when she served in the Senate, she pretended to be middle of the road, but she
00:13:16.980 could stick a knife in the back of her enemies with the best of them.
00:13:22.180 Listen, she hates Donald Trump and she's gleefully laughing at, listen, one of the objectives
00:13:28.660 here is to bankrupt all of these other defendants, to bankrupt Rudy Giuliani and John Eastman and
00:13:33.600 Mark Meadows and all of the others, because they are, they hate them.
00:13:40.120 Their view, it's a scorched earth, we're going to use the criminal justice procedure to try
00:13:47.620 to destroy the lives of our enemies.
00:13:49.980 And I think it's a really sad threshold.
00:13:53.880 It's an abuse.
00:13:54.620 Now, one of the threshold questions will be whether this stays in state court or whether
00:14:03.560 it's removed to federal court.
00:14:05.080 So Mark Meadows has already filed a motion.
00:14:07.700 Yeah, he's already said, I'm going to, I want this moved.
00:14:09.720 Yeah, he has filed a motion to remove it to federal court and the argument that he makes
00:14:17.480 is that all of the actions that he's being charged for are his actions as the White House
00:14:22.960 chief of staff, that they were calling officials on behalf of the president, they were setting
00:14:27.920 up meetings on behalf of the president, they were official acts, and as such, under federal
00:14:34.780 law, belong in federal court.
00:14:36.280 Now, we'll see how that motion plays out, and it's widely speculated that Trump will
00:14:41.960 file a similar motion.
00:14:43.480 I don't know how those will play out, but that will be one of the first battles, is whether
00:14:50.140 it stays in state court or federal court.
00:14:53.500 I think there's a good chance it's going to stay in state court, and in state court, there's
00:14:58.840 a lot of danger that this thing gets really ugly before it gets better.
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00:16:41.240 Senator, I want to ask you another question about the trial quickly.
00:16:44.960 Before I get into this other aspect, and that is a lot of conservatives are really upset that
00:16:50.800 they feel like Republicans aren't fighting back.
00:16:53.320 And before we break that down, if this does go to trial, does everybody go to trial on
00:16:59.760 the same day, at the same time, in the same court?
00:17:02.520 Are they all in different courts?
00:17:04.420 All those that were indicted around Trump in Georgia?
00:17:07.660 And the other thing is, you're not supposed to be able to interfere with an election.
00:17:11.900 I think it's pretty clear this is election interference.
00:17:15.020 So is there a chance that Donald Trump can say, and all these other defendants, hey, you
00:17:19.740 guys are interfering in an election.
00:17:21.720 You can't bring us to trial in six months for the sole purpose of sitting on this case
00:17:26.500 for two and a half years, then bringing it with the sole purpose of tying us up in court
00:17:31.380 instead of not being able to be on the campaign trail.
00:17:34.100 Well, there are going to be lots of questions litigated.
00:17:36.380 And one of the questions litigated is going to be whether this is a joint trial or several
00:17:41.720 trials.
00:17:43.180 Individual defendants can file a motion to sever their trial and have it conduct separately.
00:17:48.860 Now, with a RICO, one of the advantages of bringing a RICO prosecution is that if you
00:17:54.000 connect people to the criminal enterprise, they're all looped in and can be liable for
00:17:59.280 the criminal acts of each other.
00:18:00.760 And so that'll be a decision.
00:18:03.600 Each of these defendants presumably is going to lawyer up.
00:18:07.360 I would hope they have already, although it is not clear how many of them even can afford
00:18:13.700 lawyers at this point.
00:18:14.940 I don't know the extent to which the Trump campaign is paying for lawyers for some of
00:18:20.340 these defendants or if they're just on their own and bearing the potential cost and exposure.
00:18:26.760 The indictment itself, it lists 161 overt acts, and those are acts that are allegedly in
00:18:37.080 furtherance of the conspiracy.
00:18:39.460 Of those 161 overt acts that are laid out in the indictment, 43 of them are acts taken
00:18:47.080 or directed by Trump.
00:18:48.780 So, two-thirds of the listed acts, actually three-fourths of the listed acts, are not taken
00:18:57.660 by Trump.
00:18:58.500 But 43 of them are acts taken by Trump or directed.
00:19:02.440 20 of them, which is fewer than half, are Georgia-specific.
00:19:08.100 So, of the 43, 20 of them are Georgia-specific.
00:19:12.520 And of those 20, half of them are tweets.
00:19:17.860 They're tweets from Donald Trump about Georgia-specific issues.
00:19:21.840 So, literally, pulling out his damn phone and sending a tweet, this DA is trying to prosecute
00:19:28.400 him and put him in jail for sending a tweet.
00:19:31.360 And the remaining 23 acts that are either taken or directed by Trump are acts that are directed
00:19:38.420 in Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania, the Department of Justice, the Republican National Committee
00:19:43.700 chairwoman, and the vice president or other unindicted co-conspirators.
00:19:50.520 And so, and some of these alleged, these overt acts are very, very vague.
00:19:55.780 So, for example, Act No. 30, let me read you what Act No. 30 is.
00:20:00.380 Trump, quote, placed a telephone call to President Pro Tempore of the Georgia Senate, Butch Miller.
00:20:07.760 This was an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy.
00:20:12.420 That's it.
00:20:13.200 That's what they allege.
00:20:14.240 You called a state legislator.
00:20:16.280 So, apparently, it is now a criminal act to call a state legislator.
00:20:20.300 Now, it could be a criminal act to call a state legislator.
00:20:24.000 If you say, call a state legislator and said,
00:20:27.860 Hey, the Chinese communists are sending me $8 million.
00:20:32.240 Could you open a shell company bank account for that $8 million and then funnel it to my kids and grandkids?
00:20:39.740 Okay, that would be an instance of a president or vice president making a call to a state legislator
00:20:44.300 where the call was criminal.
00:20:45.880 So, it is possible that criminal activity occurred in the call.
00:20:51.100 But I'll tell you, the indictment doesn't allege it.
00:20:54.700 And we're literally facing a world where TDS, Trump derangement syndrome, is so bad,
00:21:03.160 Democrats have convinced themselves that Trump is the devil,
00:21:06.820 that they now want to put him in jail for sending tweets,
00:21:10.100 and they want to put lawyers in jail for representing their client or for making legal arguments.
00:21:18.200 This is not law.
00:21:20.400 This is politics, and this is the weaponization of criminal justice.
00:21:27.100 Canadian women are looking for more.
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00:21:52.600 Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on iHeartRadio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
00:21:57.940 I want to ask you about, and this I think is an important point,
00:22:01.600 there are a lot of conservatives that listen.
00:22:04.200 They see what the Bidens have done.
00:22:06.140 They see what's being done right now to Trump.
00:22:08.180 And they're really angry.
00:22:10.460 They're upset for the fact that they feel like Republicans aren't doing enough to fight back.
00:22:17.460 I don't know who wrote this, by the way, but it was sent to me.
00:22:21.120 And I think it encompasses a lot of the, what I'm hearing on my show, when I'm doing my podcast,
00:22:28.280 a lot of the messages you and I get from this podcast.
00:22:30.700 And this is what it says.
00:22:32.080 So, Republicans did nothing about Bill Clinton flying to islands with minors.
00:22:36.760 Republicans did nothing about Hillary Clinton smashing devices, hiding classified emails,
00:22:42.540 and then destroying evidence after she was told to give it back.
00:22:46.100 Republicans did nothing about James Comey brazenly lying.
00:22:49.380 Republicans did nothing about Annie McCabe plotting a silent coup against a sitting president,
00:22:54.040 trying to overthrow the will of the people when Donald Trump was elected.
00:22:56.600 Republicans did nothing about Black Lives Matter raising $100 million and breaking charitable giving laws.
00:23:03.960 Republicans in Florida did nothing about James Biden's alleged fraud scheme involving a hospital system.
00:23:09.500 Republicans in Arkansas did nothing about Hunter Biden's mid-range crimes there.
00:23:13.760 Republicans have done nothing against Antifa and their interstate Rico operations.
00:23:19.480 Republicans have done nothing against Fauci, Echo Health Alliance,
00:23:22.480 or the other fake scientists who promoted lies about COVID's origins to hide their own culpability.
00:23:28.980 Why would Democrats be afraid of us?
00:23:31.140 They run the country while Republican AGs and DAs quiver in fear and run for the hills.
00:23:39.040 Now, I think this is an adequate, honestly, representation of many conservatives now that are saying,
00:23:45.160 look, if they're not going to play by the rules, us trying to be the elder statesman here is not working,
00:23:52.100 they're beating our brains in, when are we going to take the gloves off and go,
00:23:55.660 okay, if you want to play this way, then damn it, we're going to play this way too,
00:24:00.360 and let's start going after the Bidens and the Clintons and everybody else on this list at the state level,
00:24:06.020 just like the Democrats are doing right now trying to decimate and financially ruin anyone around Donald Trump
00:24:12.900 to try to also hurt him that way as well.
00:24:15.520 Well, listen, I agree with a lot of the points raised in that tweet that you read,
00:24:22.280 laying out a number of what appear to be serious criminal acts that were not prosecuted,
00:24:32.500 and I share massive frustration over that.
00:24:35.820 Now, let me be clear.
00:24:36.900 I understand the sentiment of, damn it, if these bastards are going to weaponize the justice system
00:24:44.500 and try to lock up Republicans for running against them,
00:24:47.840 we ought to weaponize the justice system and lock up Democrats for being Democrats.
00:24:52.220 I understand that that's a very human reaction.
00:24:56.040 I don't agree with it.
00:24:57.240 I don't agree with abusing law enforcement, whether it is for my team or the other team.
00:25:03.520 I don't want a Republican Department of Justice.
00:25:07.420 I don't want a Republican FBI.
00:25:09.820 I don't want a Democrat Department of Justice or a Democrat FBI.
00:25:13.100 I want a Department of Justice and FBI that follows the law and enforces the law.
00:25:17.480 Now, if you go back to the Trump administration,
00:25:21.500 one of the enormous problems in the Trump administration is that many of the appointments
00:25:25.800 that Trump made to the cabinet, to the subcabinet, to the agencies were lousy appointments.
00:25:32.300 They did not do a good job.
00:25:34.680 James Comey, who is a wildly partisan FBI director, Trump left him in office for two-plus years.
00:25:42.420 That was an enormous mistake.
00:25:44.080 James Comey should have been fired on January 20th, 2017.
00:25:48.960 The Trump White House made serious personnel mistakes,
00:25:52.560 and they put the wrong people in charge, in particular at the Department of Justice and the FBI.
00:25:57.600 And, you know, you go through that whole list.
00:26:00.560 Antifa, why we didn't bring multiple prosecutions.
00:26:05.740 Look, we had on this podcast a couple of years ago,
00:26:08.300 we had Bill Barr when he was the sitting attorney general on the Verdict podcast.
00:26:11.760 And I was frustrated then, and I'm frustrated now,
00:26:15.340 that they did not devote real and serious resources,
00:26:19.080 that when people burn American cities to the ground,
00:26:22.700 when they firebomb and loot stores and terrorize American citizens,
00:26:28.580 why DOJ didn't come in there and prosecute violent criminals.
00:26:33.440 That's not abusing law enforcement.
00:26:36.400 That's actually applying the law fairly and directly to real violent crime.
00:26:43.960 They didn't do a very good job of that.
00:26:46.800 You go through, listen, this Hunter Biden stuff and the Joe Biden stuff,
00:26:53.720 the Department of Justice, this FD-1023 that we've talked about in this podcast,
00:26:58.020 of the confidential human source that alleged Joe Biden and Hunter Biden
00:27:01.960 solicited and received a bribe from a Ukrainian oligarch,
00:27:06.820 that came in to the Trump FBI and the Trump DOJ.
00:27:12.520 And they sat on it.
00:27:14.260 Now, we've talked at length about how the deep state
00:27:17.160 spent four years waging war on Donald Trump.
00:27:21.360 As you know, the last book I wrote,
00:27:23.420 Justice Corrupted, How the Left Has Weaponized the Legal System,
00:27:26.360 goes into in-depth how these hard partisans
00:27:31.160 burrowed into career senior positions at the FBI and the DOJ
00:27:36.760 and the IRS and the CIA.
00:27:39.820 And not only did they not enforce the law against left-wingers,
00:27:45.900 but they aggressively weaponized law enforcement
00:27:49.520 from within the deep state
00:27:51.500 against the duly elected president of the United States.
00:27:54.820 And so I share that frustration.
00:27:59.960 And you're right, there's a whole pattern of criminal conduct
00:28:04.660 that we have not had.
00:28:08.560 Look, I think the fact that Jeffrey Epstein
00:28:10.820 was able to hang himself in a jail cell
00:28:16.180 is an absolute outrage.
00:28:18.540 It is disgraceful.
00:28:19.560 He was on suicide watch.
00:28:20.820 Why the hell weren't they watching him?
00:28:22.140 And I want to know every one of those clients
00:28:25.240 in that black book,
00:28:26.740 every one of those perverts
00:28:28.380 that assaulted little girls
00:28:31.140 should be brought to justice.
00:28:33.040 And we have not seen
00:28:34.540 any vigorous effort, to be clear,
00:28:37.760 any vigorous effort by Republicans or Democrats
00:28:40.520 to have accountability.
00:28:42.780 Listen, Jeffrey Epstein had in his living room
00:28:45.020 in his New York home,
00:28:48.120 an oil painting of Bill Clinton
00:28:51.560 in a blue cocktail dress and high-heeled pumps.
00:28:57.160 So, you know, Jeffrey Epstein was a very close friend to Bill,
00:29:00.980 and there's been no accountability for that.
00:29:04.220 That is infuriating.
00:29:06.360 But I want to underscore
00:29:08.960 the answer is not just tit-for-tat
00:29:12.020 of let's bring bogus prosecutions
00:29:16.340 against our political enemies.
00:29:19.060 The answer is
00:29:20.280 let's put people in a position of law enforcement
00:29:23.460 that have the courage
00:29:24.560 to investigate and follow the evidence
00:29:27.500 and bring cases of real wrongdoing.
00:29:30.400 Listen, there's a qualitative difference.
00:29:33.260 Compare the allegations right now
00:29:35.140 against Joe and Hunter Biden
00:29:36.200 to the allegations against Trump.
00:29:38.860 The allegations...
00:29:40.240 And before you say this,
00:29:41.060 this is what pisses people off.
00:29:43.300 Yeah.
00:29:43.780 Is they feel like there's so much evidence here.
00:29:46.740 Yes.
00:29:47.340 Against Joe Biden, against Hunter Biden,
00:29:49.160 against the Biden crime family,
00:29:50.600 the list is long,
00:29:52.260 and there's not a single DA
00:29:54.760 or, you know,
00:29:57.760 whoever in law enforcement, right,
00:29:59.720 that could maybe throw down on them
00:30:01.660 that's doing it,
00:30:02.400 they're going,
00:30:03.000 there's real crimes here, for goodness.
00:30:04.980 And you guys aren't doing anything.
00:30:06.780 They're making up crimes
00:30:08.080 against Donald Trump
00:30:09.480 and trying to bankrupt everybody around him.
00:30:11.780 I mean, I know people,
00:30:12.860 and Senator, I'm sure you do too,
00:30:14.820 who say they can't afford financially
00:30:16.960 to go work for Donald Trump,
00:30:18.220 even if he is re-elected,
00:30:19.800 because the legal liability
00:30:21.420 is just too great of a strain.
00:30:23.380 I know people
00:30:24.120 that have had to take out,
00:30:25.620 apparently, loans
00:30:26.540 just to defend themselves
00:30:27.740 because they worked at the White House
00:30:28.900 and did nothing wrong.
00:30:29.960 Yeah.
00:30:30.600 So, look,
00:30:31.300 I will say
00:30:32.240 for many of the crimes
00:30:34.960 that were on that list,
00:30:36.720 those crimes are federal.
00:30:39.100 Most of the,
00:30:39.760 not all of them,
00:30:40.440 but most of them are federal.
00:30:42.980 And that limits
00:30:44.440 who can prosecute.
00:30:46.820 A federal crime
00:30:47.920 can only be prosecuted
00:30:49.320 by the U.S. Department of Justice,
00:30:51.120 by the federal government.
00:30:52.560 That means a state DA
00:30:54.360 can't bring,
00:30:55.600 can't prosecute
00:30:56.580 a federal crime.
00:30:57.540 A U.S. attorney
00:30:59.160 in a given state
00:30:59.940 can prosecute it,
00:31:00.980 but all of the 93 U.S. attorneys
00:31:02.640 work for the Attorney General,
00:31:04.500 and so it's,
00:31:05.180 it's the Department of Justice.
00:31:07.080 And so when you have,
00:31:09.060 as we have now,
00:31:11.020 a deeply partisan DOJ
00:31:14.340 under Joe Biden
00:31:15.400 and Merrick Garland,
00:31:17.060 it means that none
00:31:18.340 of the U.S. attorneys
00:31:19.220 will enforce the law
00:31:20.460 against their buddies.
00:31:21.580 And so it's why
00:31:22.660 when David Weiss
00:31:24.600 apparently asked
00:31:25.740 the U.S. attorney
00:31:26.720 in the Central District
00:31:27.420 of California
00:31:28.120 to bring more serious charges
00:31:30.400 against Hunter Biden,
00:31:31.360 he was told no.
00:31:32.620 When the U.S. attorney
00:31:33.580 in D.C.,
00:31:34.380 who was a big Democrat donor,
00:31:35.760 gave money to Joe Biden,
00:31:36.840 was asked about bringing
00:31:38.260 more serious charges
00:31:39.160 against Hunter Biden,
00:31:40.140 again, he said no.
00:31:41.840 The California Central District
00:31:43.680 U.S. attorney
00:31:45.160 was a donor
00:31:45.720 to Kamala Harris.
00:31:46.620 They were both
00:31:47.000 Democrat donors.
00:31:48.940 So the challenge is,
00:31:50.540 for federal crimes,
00:31:51.960 it has to be
00:31:52.680 DOJ bringing them.
00:31:53.840 So in order for a state DA
00:31:57.220 or a state attorney general,
00:31:59.080 in some states,
00:31:59.880 attorneys general
00:32:00.560 have the ability
00:32:01.220 to prosecute criminal cases,
00:32:03.200 not every state,
00:32:03.940 and it varies state by state,
00:32:05.340 but it has to be
00:32:07.020 a violation of state law
00:32:09.020 that typically occurred
00:32:11.000 in the state.
00:32:12.620 There has to be a nexus
00:32:13.740 to the jurisdiction.
00:32:15.140 Now, look,
00:32:16.160 I would note Virginia.
00:32:18.260 Virginia is now
00:32:19.320 a Republican state
00:32:20.340 with a Republican attorney general,
00:32:21.840 and there's an awful lot
00:32:23.580 of Democrats
00:32:24.120 who are living
00:32:25.340 and operating in Virginia
00:32:26.540 that are in and around D.C.
00:32:30.520 If you look at,
00:32:31.460 but my point on this,
00:32:32.880 compare Georgia
00:32:34.220 to the allegations
00:32:36.700 against Joe Biden.
00:32:38.800 And to be clear,
00:32:40.200 these are allegations,
00:32:42.120 among others,
00:32:43.200 from two senior career
00:32:46.240 IRS employees
00:32:47.420 who are whistleblowers
00:32:48.520 who risked their entire career
00:32:50.220 to come forward
00:32:50.920 and to say
00:32:51.500 that there's obstruction
00:32:52.600 of justice
00:32:53.180 and lying under oath
00:32:54.280 and a cover-up
00:32:55.040 that is hiding criminality
00:32:56.760 from Hunter Biden
00:32:57.760 and hiding criminality
00:32:59.780 from Joe Biden.
00:33:01.440 Compare on the face of it
00:33:03.120 a president of the United States
00:33:05.880 or a vice president
00:33:06.680 of the United States
00:33:07.620 soliciting and receiving
00:33:09.660 millions of dollars
00:33:10.880 of bribes
00:33:11.600 from multiple foreign nationals,
00:33:14.000 from oligarchs in Ukraine,
00:33:16.420 oligarchs in Russia,
00:33:17.740 from Kazakhstan,
00:33:19.580 from Chinese communist officials
00:33:22.600 and selling favors,
00:33:26.200 federal government favors
00:33:27.460 in exchange for millions
00:33:29.160 of dollars of bribes.
00:33:30.580 On the face of it,
00:33:32.180 that is extraordinarily serious.
00:33:34.520 There is a reason
00:33:35.480 the Constitution specifies bribery
00:33:38.900 as a ground for impeachment.
00:33:42.260 Impeachment lies for treason,
00:33:43.980 bribery,
00:33:44.560 or other high crimes
00:33:45.860 or misdemeanors.
00:33:48.020 Contrast that
00:33:48.940 to this indictment
00:33:51.240 that is indicting Trump
00:33:52.880 for a bunch of tweets
00:33:54.080 and a few phone calls he made.
00:33:56.160 Yeah, I mean,
00:33:56.560 there's literally
00:33:57.040 one of the lines
00:33:58.220 in this actual indictment.
00:33:59.700 It says,
00:34:01.000 on or about the third day
00:34:03.460 of December 2020,
00:34:04.800 Donald John Trump
00:34:05.920 caused to be tweeted
00:34:09.320 from the Twitter account
00:34:10.380 at RealDonaldTrump,
00:34:11.300 Georgia hearings now
00:34:13.900 on OAN.
00:34:15.560 Amazing.
00:34:16.700 This was an overt act
00:34:18.220 in furtherance
00:34:19.220 of the conspiracy,
00:34:20.420 and they have now
00:34:22.580 made that into
00:34:23.860 a criminal case.
00:34:25.840 It's ludicrous,
00:34:27.540 and it is
00:34:28.680 deranged partisanship
00:34:32.680 that is saying
00:34:33.800 that sending a tweet
00:34:35.080 or,
00:34:36.740 in the case of the lawyers,
00:34:38.440 representing your clients
00:34:39.760 or making legal arguments,
00:34:41.320 this is actually
00:34:41.980 one of the things
00:34:42.620 really at the heart
00:34:43.300 of Jack Smith's indictment
00:34:44.420 on January 6th,
00:34:45.660 where he indicts Trump
00:34:46.720 because he says,
00:34:47.620 okay,
00:34:47.800 you had one group
00:34:48.460 of lawyers
00:34:49.020 who gave you
00:34:49.440 one set of advice,
00:34:50.620 one group of lawyers
00:34:51.560 who gave you
00:34:51.980 another set of advice,
00:34:53.220 you went with
00:34:54.000 group number one
00:34:54.760 and not group number two,
00:34:56.020 therefore that's a felony.
00:34:58.140 Like, what?
00:34:59.300 Yeah.
00:34:59.720 That's insane,
00:35:00.880 and his proof is,
00:35:02.560 well,
00:35:02.780 you knew group number one
00:35:03.860 was wrong
00:35:04.320 because group number two
00:35:05.180 told you something different.
00:35:06.260 Well, no.
00:35:08.740 You know,
00:35:09.580 it reminds me
00:35:10.460 of Ronald Reagan's
00:35:11.320 old joke
00:35:12.140 about economists
00:35:13.880 that he said,
00:35:15.100 you know,
00:35:15.460 Reagan said,
00:35:16.040 I want a one-armed economist
00:35:17.900 so that he can't say,
00:35:19.800 on the other hand,
00:35:21.420 look,
00:35:21.740 if you spend time
00:35:23.000 around lawyers,
00:35:23.660 you're going to get
00:35:24.080 a bunch of different opinions,
00:35:25.340 and it is,
00:35:27.040 it cannot be the law
00:35:28.920 that it is a crime
00:35:30.900 to believe
00:35:32.260 one set of lawyers
00:35:33.360 over another set of lawyers,
00:35:34.600 even if,
00:35:35.180 by the way,
00:35:35.580 the set of lawyers
00:35:36.520 you believe is wrong,
00:35:37.540 that that cannot be a crime,
00:35:39.700 and in this instance,
00:35:40.560 that's exactly
00:35:41.420 what they're weaponizing,
00:35:42.680 and it's an absolute
00:35:44.120 double standard,
00:35:46.260 and look,
00:35:47.960 it is nakedly
00:35:50.900 election interference.
00:35:52.400 It's why MSNBC
00:35:53.900 is ecstatic,
00:35:57.780 and I'll point out,
00:35:59.440 listen,
00:35:59.820 a lot of this information
00:36:01.240 about the bribery scandal
00:36:03.660 could have been brought out,
00:36:06.000 could have been prosecuted,
00:36:07.820 when Trump was president.
00:36:09.640 It occurred
00:36:10.800 before Trump was president.
00:36:13.040 They had substantial evidence,
00:36:14.540 I'll tell you,
00:36:15.140 during the first
00:36:15.820 Trump impeachment trial,
00:36:16.980 and as most listeners know,
00:36:21.040 verdict launched
00:36:22.060 the first night
00:36:23.480 of the first
00:36:25.140 Trump impeachment trial
00:36:26.200 and went every night
00:36:27.260 immediately after the trial.
00:36:29.240 I went to Trump's legal team,
00:36:31.720 and I argued
00:36:33.320 vociferously,
00:36:34.300 I said,
00:36:34.660 listen,
00:36:35.360 they have given you
00:36:37.140 a gift.
00:36:39.300 Prosecute
00:36:39.900 Burisma.
00:36:41.880 Lay out the facts.
00:36:43.760 Lay out
00:36:44.360 the son-of-a-bitch video,
00:36:45.900 but lay out
00:36:46.760 the quid pro quo.
00:36:48.840 Demonstrate
00:36:49.360 that this oligarch
00:36:51.300 was paying off
00:36:52.520 the Biden family
00:36:53.600 for official
00:36:55.120 favors
00:36:56.400 from Joe Biden.
00:36:57.440 You have the ability
00:36:58.260 to do it,
00:36:59.120 not just in a court of law,
00:37:00.360 but on the floor
00:37:01.040 of the Senate.
00:37:01.680 I said,
00:37:02.080 this is
00:37:02.580 an enormous gift,
00:37:05.200 and Trump's lawyers
00:37:07.000 didn't want to.
00:37:08.600 They said no.
00:37:09.880 And listen,
00:37:10.660 they were very nervous.
00:37:11.520 There was a critical,
00:37:13.600 tactical decision
00:37:14.480 in that first impeachment trial,
00:37:17.000 which is whether or not
00:37:18.920 to call witnesses.
00:37:20.180 And I urged the White House,
00:37:21.680 I said,
00:37:22.080 listen,
00:37:23.660 y'all should let them
00:37:24.640 call witnesses,
00:37:25.480 but you should call witnesses.
00:37:26.920 You should put
00:37:27.560 Hunter Biden on the stand.
00:37:29.340 You should lay out
00:37:30.360 these facts.
00:37:31.940 And ultimately,
00:37:33.220 the Trump legal defense team
00:37:34.960 decided,
00:37:35.540 well,
00:37:35.740 let's just get through
00:37:36.500 this impeachment,
00:37:37.400 so let's have no witnesses.
00:37:38.940 But I think,
00:37:40.480 in hindsight,
00:37:41.520 it was an enormous mistake
00:37:43.420 not to have laid out
00:37:45.940 and proven up
00:37:46.660 that evidence then.
00:37:48.740 It would have made
00:37:49.780 a world of difference now.
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00:39:30.420 Senator, I want to play
00:39:31.220 for you something else
00:39:32.920 that I really think
00:39:33.800 struck a nerve
00:39:34.500 with many people,
00:39:35.220 and that was
00:39:35.880 Hillary Clinton
00:39:36.560 was on TV
00:39:37.980 much like you were
00:39:38.940 on TV
00:39:39.520 when this indictment
00:39:40.700 was coming down.
00:39:41.360 You were on Hannity.
00:39:42.580 And Hillary Clinton
00:39:43.580 was on MSNBC.
00:39:45.260 She said this
00:39:46.440 about the indictment
00:39:47.640 of Donald Trump.
00:39:48.920 I don't know
00:39:49.520 that anybody
00:39:50.040 should be satisfied.
00:39:51.320 This is a terrible moment
00:39:53.900 for our country
00:39:55.060 to have a former president
00:39:57.620 accused of these
00:39:58.800 terribly important crimes.
00:40:02.340 The only satisfaction
00:40:04.260 may be that the system
00:40:05.740 is working,
00:40:06.960 that all of the efforts
00:40:08.560 by Donald Trump,
00:40:10.020 his allies,
00:40:11.040 and his enablers
00:40:12.000 to try to silence
00:40:13.880 the truth,
00:40:14.860 to try to undermine
00:40:16.120 democracy,
00:40:17.800 have been brought
00:40:18.780 into the light,
00:40:20.680 and justice
00:40:22.060 is being pursued.
00:40:23.080 I mean,
00:40:24.720 that infuriated me
00:40:26.200 and many others
00:40:26.960 when they heard it
00:40:27.660 because they remember
00:40:29.060 that this is the same woman
00:40:30.120 that knew that Donald Trump
00:40:30.980 was being indicted
00:40:31.840 for a dossier
00:40:33.600 that she paid for
00:40:34.640 and the DNC paid for.
00:40:36.040 She knew
00:40:36.620 it was a coup attempt
00:40:38.440 in essence
00:40:38.900 when they went after him
00:40:39.860 in the first Trump impeachment.
00:40:41.540 This is the same woman
00:40:42.420 that had classified
00:40:44.460 information documents
00:40:45.800 on an outside server
00:40:47.100 on an outside email account
00:40:48.460 and lied about it,
00:40:49.540 and then when it got busted,
00:40:50.320 they said,
00:40:50.720 hey, give us the intel
00:40:51.540 and guess what happened?
00:40:53.020 She said,
00:40:53.580 no, we're going to destroy it,
00:40:54.620 and they did.
00:40:55.160 They bleach bit it
00:40:55.940 and they smashed
00:40:56.600 the BlackBerrys
00:40:57.820 and the iPhones involved.
00:40:59.480 And they used hammers
00:41:00.580 to do it.
00:41:01.380 And they used hammers
00:41:02.120 to do it,
00:41:02.640 and you sit there
00:41:03.480 and you hear her say this,
00:41:05.420 and this does go back
00:41:06.680 to the point
00:41:07.240 where I said earlier,
00:41:08.240 but like,
00:41:09.260 at what point
00:41:10.240 do we fight back?
00:41:12.180 We've got to fight back.
00:41:13.600 We've got to fight back.
00:41:14.860 Look,
00:41:15.200 I am beyond frustrated.
00:41:18.340 I'm frustrated
00:41:19.400 that we did not see that
00:41:21.100 during the Trump administration
00:41:23.140 that the DOJ
00:41:24.540 and the FBI
00:41:25.420 did not hold people
00:41:27.760 to account
00:41:28.400 the way they should have,
00:41:29.560 and it is maddening.
00:41:31.180 It's infuriating.
00:41:33.180 And it comes down
00:41:34.660 to the political appointments
00:41:36.540 that are put in charge.
00:41:37.800 Jeff Sessions
00:41:38.380 was appointed
00:41:39.420 Attorney General.
00:41:40.320 Jeff is a very nice man.
00:41:41.580 He promptly recused himself
00:41:42.980 from an enormous amount
00:41:44.320 of what was happening
00:41:45.040 at DOJ
00:41:46.040 and let the deep state
00:41:47.320 hijack the department
00:41:49.080 and ultimately
00:41:50.820 was not able
00:41:53.000 to overcome
00:41:54.320 the corruption
00:41:57.960 that had burrowed in
00:41:59.540 to the department.
00:42:01.520 But that ultimately
00:42:02.980 has real consequences,
00:42:04.440 that you've got
00:42:05.940 to be willing
00:42:08.480 to prosecute people
00:42:11.260 who commit real
00:42:12.200 and serious crimes.
00:42:13.320 Look, Hillary's talking
00:42:15.220 about undermining
00:42:15.960 democracy there.
00:42:16.940 There's an irony
00:42:17.880 because, of course,
00:42:19.280 Hillary in 2016
00:42:20.440 insisted that Trump's election
00:42:22.180 was illegitimate,
00:42:23.280 that she was the president
00:42:24.600 of the United States,
00:42:25.600 and that, you know,
00:42:28.200 today Democrats
00:42:29.460 allege that
00:42:30.320 saying that there's
00:42:31.740 fraud in an election,
00:42:32.820 that saying that
00:42:33.320 an election's illegitimate,
00:42:34.900 is undermining
00:42:37.400 the democracy
00:42:39.020 and the country
00:42:39.640 and everything else.
00:42:40.780 Of course,
00:42:41.100 they do it
00:42:41.640 in every cycle.
00:42:43.000 You'll recall
00:42:43.960 last fall
00:42:45.740 when I went on The View
00:42:46.800 and The View began,
00:42:48.340 the ladies on The View
00:42:49.620 began screaming at me
00:42:51.020 about Republicans
00:42:53.760 being election deniers,
00:42:55.080 and I just sat there
00:42:56.020 and read Hillary Clinton,
00:42:57.840 I read Al Gore,
00:42:58.860 I read Democrat
00:42:59.600 after Democrat
00:43:00.300 after Democrat,
00:43:01.160 I read Joe Biden,
00:43:02.440 all of whom,
00:43:03.400 when they lose elections,
00:43:04.620 promptly try to undermine
00:43:06.140 the legitimacy
00:43:06.740 of the election.
00:43:08.340 But it's one-sided,
00:43:09.740 and it's
00:43:11.660 nakedly
00:43:13.540 a double standard.
00:43:15.280 I want to ask you
00:43:16.260 one other question
00:43:17.060 about what happened
00:43:18.300 with Fulton County
00:43:19.540 Court publishing
00:43:20.600 and then removing
00:43:22.620 the Trump indictment.
00:43:25.080 This, they said,
00:43:26.180 was a fictitious document
00:43:27.820 that was uploaded
00:43:28.540 to their website.
00:43:30.240 The Fulton County
00:43:31.080 DA was like,
00:43:33.160 oh, I'm not involved
00:43:35.140 with the documents
00:43:37.860 as they go online.
00:43:39.140 That's not what I do.
00:43:40.440 It was an incredibly bizarre,
00:43:43.280 unexplained act
00:43:44.260 that some critics
00:43:46.080 are now saying
00:43:46.740 violated Trump's
00:43:47.740 constitutional rights
00:43:48.720 to due process of law.
00:43:50.800 Reuters was the first
00:43:52.280 to report the document
00:43:53.240 had been filed,
00:43:54.360 then had to update
00:43:55.620 its report
00:43:56.240 when the document
00:43:56.960 was removed
00:43:57.720 from the court website,
00:43:59.620 and then the office
00:44:00.340 of Fulton County
00:44:00.960 District Attorney
00:44:01.640 Willis denied
00:44:02.780 that the indictment
00:44:03.560 had yet been issued
00:44:04.440 because the grand jury
00:44:05.440 hadn't officially
00:44:06.700 finished meeting
00:44:07.800 or had met.
00:44:08.700 We're still trying
00:44:09.240 to figure out
00:44:09.640 that timeline.
00:44:10.900 Then Reuters
00:44:11.440 preserved the initial document
00:44:13.060 which listed 39 charges
00:44:14.540 against Trump,
00:44:15.160 including the, quote,
00:44:16.020 serious felony
00:44:16.700 of racketeering.
00:44:17.880 All of the other 38 charges,
00:44:19.580 solicitation and the violation
00:44:20.700 of an oath,
00:44:21.440 false statement,
00:44:22.040 and conspiracy charges
00:44:22.980 are all felonies.
00:44:24.500 And then Reuters said
00:44:25.720 the Fulton County
00:44:26.340 Georgia Court's website
00:44:27.740 posted the document
00:44:29.260 Monday listing
00:44:30.100 several criminal charges
00:44:31.060 against the former president,
00:44:32.160 and then the Fulton County
00:44:33.600 District Attorney's Office
00:44:34.460 said in an official statement,
00:44:36.360 Senator,
00:44:37.140 that no charges
00:44:38.020 had been filed
00:44:38.760 against Donald Trump.
00:44:40.260 The document was dated
00:44:41.540 August the 14th
00:44:42.660 and named Trump
00:44:43.320 citing the cases open.
00:44:45.200 There was all the information
00:44:46.380 of who it was going
00:44:46.920 to be assigned to.
00:44:47.820 It was all there.
00:44:49.260 And then they said
00:44:50.340 it's a fictitious document.
00:44:52.960 Then the real document
00:44:54.160 comes out.
00:44:54.860 It's almost a match
00:44:56.160 side by side.
00:44:58.000 So was this
00:44:59.000 a due process violation
00:45:00.380 and does this
00:45:01.640 do anything
00:45:02.640 to undo
00:45:03.680 part of this attack
00:45:05.460 on Donald Trump?
00:45:06.360 Could that turn
00:45:07.180 into a big legal victory
00:45:08.220 for him or probably not?
00:45:10.760 You know,
00:45:11.160 I have to say
00:45:11.960 I'm underwhelmed
00:45:13.380 by that particular issue.
00:45:15.060 Listen,
00:45:15.360 that was clearly
00:45:16.180 a screw-up.
00:45:17.340 It was a screw-up
00:45:18.600 by probably
00:45:20.540 some clerk,
00:45:22.320 maybe a junior lawyer
00:45:23.980 who handed the document
00:45:25.360 before it was complete,
00:45:26.880 before it had been
00:45:27.680 fully voted out.
00:45:29.040 Maybe they told
00:45:31.060 the clerk,
00:45:31.780 okay,
00:45:32.180 this is an early version.
00:45:33.880 I don't know,
00:45:35.860 but it was clearly
00:45:36.800 a screw-up.
00:45:38.860 As screw-ups go,
00:45:40.560 this one doesn't get
00:45:41.500 my blood pressure
00:45:42.780 very high.
00:45:44.920 You know,
00:45:45.220 I'm reminded
00:45:45.760 a former boss
00:45:46.640 of mine used to say,
00:45:48.320 never blame on malice
00:45:49.800 what can be explained
00:45:51.400 by incompetence.
00:45:52.900 I think somebody
00:45:53.840 screwed up.
00:45:54.540 Oh, wait,
00:45:54.920 I'm not supposed
00:45:55.880 to put this up?
00:45:56.620 Oh, what?
00:45:56.860 I think that's what happened.
00:45:58.660 And they realized,
00:45:59.480 oh, crap,
00:46:00.300 we made this public
00:46:01.820 before it's public,
00:46:03.140 before it's finalized,
00:46:04.060 so they pulled it down.
00:46:05.660 And, you know,
00:46:06.420 lots of people
00:46:07.060 are focusing
00:46:08.080 on the word fictitious.
00:46:09.500 It clearly
00:46:09.980 was not fictitious.
00:46:12.020 My suspicion is
00:46:13.420 that was a poorly
00:46:14.280 chosen word,
00:46:15.960 that what the person
00:46:17.900 who said it
00:46:18.620 was trying to do
00:46:20.120 was pick
00:46:20.720 a big tenpenny word
00:46:22.580 to say
00:46:23.180 this was a
00:46:24.640 not valid document,
00:46:25.940 this was a screw-up,
00:46:27.200 this was a mistake,
00:46:28.420 this is not
00:46:29.180 a real indictment,
00:46:30.100 all of which
00:46:30.660 is accurate.
00:46:31.480 If it hadn't been
00:46:32.120 voted out
00:46:32.500 by the grand jury,
00:46:33.400 it's not a real indictment.
00:46:34.780 Somebody screwed up
00:46:35.560 and put an early version up.
00:46:37.260 But it was not,
00:46:39.560 in fact,
00:46:40.140 fictitious
00:46:40.860 as in made-up fiction.
00:46:43.200 It was rather
00:46:44.340 just not
00:46:45.740 official
00:46:47.140 or legitimate.
00:46:49.140 So,
00:46:50.020 was it a
00:46:51.820 due process
00:46:52.600 violation?
00:46:53.340 I doubt it.
00:46:54.960 In terms of
00:46:55.840 the things
00:46:56.500 that are
00:46:57.200 abuses of law
00:46:59.660 in this indictment,
00:47:03.560 if you were to
00:47:04.240 make a list
00:47:04.920 of the top
00:47:05.480 thousand,
00:47:06.880 there are at least
00:47:07.580 a thousand
00:47:08.200 that are ahead
00:47:08.940 of this particular issue.
00:47:10.560 And one more,
00:47:11.560 maybe that jury
00:47:12.280 foreperson,
00:47:13.140 and I want to get
00:47:13.720 your thoughts
00:47:14.160 on what she said
00:47:14.940 on TV.
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00:48:25.700 Lastly,
00:48:26.180 Senator,
00:48:26.600 the foreperson
00:48:27.500 of the Georgia
00:48:27.980 grand jury
00:48:28.540 earlier,
00:48:29.720 back in February,
00:48:31.520 went on TV
00:48:32.420 and was giggling
00:48:33.820 and talking
00:48:35.140 and really fantasizing
00:48:36.540 about this idea
00:48:37.360 of swearing in
00:48:38.080 Donald Trump.
00:48:38.980 Could any of this
00:48:39.960 hurt their case
00:48:40.680 as well?
00:48:41.320 Emily,
00:48:41.660 thank you for
00:48:42.160 coming on.
00:48:42.980 I do want to say
00:48:43.880 off the top,
00:48:44.580 as you and I
00:48:45.240 just discussed,
00:48:45.960 but for everyone to know,
00:48:46.700 you are somewhat
00:48:47.520 limited in what
00:48:48.200 you can discuss
00:48:49.000 under the judge's
00:48:50.960 orders as of now.
00:48:52.420 But one,
00:48:53.080 we do know,
00:48:53.680 of course,
00:48:53.980 one of the biggest
00:48:54.500 questions remaining
00:48:55.400 for everyone
00:48:56.060 that wasn't in that
00:48:57.340 jury room with you
00:48:58.220 is how many people
00:48:59.340 are in trouble here?
00:49:00.580 What can you tell us
00:49:01.340 about how many people
00:49:02.560 you recommended
00:49:03.220 as a group
00:49:03.940 to face indictments?
00:49:04.960 Well, thank you
00:49:08.340 for having me,
00:49:09.040 first of all.
00:49:09.880 And I'm hesitant
00:49:11.900 to speak to
00:49:13.000 something that the judge
00:49:14.240 made a decision
00:49:15.420 not to share.
00:49:17.200 He,
00:49:18.340 I don't know
00:49:19.040 if everyone's aware
00:49:19.840 of this,
00:49:20.160 but there was a hearing
00:49:21.020 about what parts
00:49:24.220 of the report
00:49:24.660 should and should not
00:49:25.620 be published
00:49:26.360 in its various forms
00:49:27.940 and the list,
00:49:30.220 well,
00:49:30.920 the sections
00:49:31.740 that were removed
00:49:32.440 were consciously
00:49:33.720 chosen to be removed.
00:49:35.640 And I don't want to say
00:49:37.060 I have better judgment
00:49:37.820 than the judge.
00:49:39.240 That's totally understandable.
00:49:40.980 Is it,
00:49:41.460 would you say
00:49:41.960 when it comes to,
00:49:42.960 there are indictments
00:49:44.740 recommended,
00:49:45.360 of course.
00:49:46.000 Is it more than
00:49:47.200 12 people?
00:49:48.860 Is it more than
00:49:49.320 20 people?
00:49:51.800 I think if you look
00:49:52.920 at the page numbers
00:49:53.680 of the report,
00:49:54.460 there's about
00:49:55.000 six pages in the middle
00:49:57.200 that got cut out.
00:49:59.960 Allow for spacing.
00:50:01.920 It's not a short list.
00:50:03.900 Not a short list.
00:50:05.780 More.
00:50:06.440 Not only is she laughing
00:50:07.860 there,
00:50:08.600 she then went on
00:50:09.580 to say this
00:50:10.380 about Donald Trump
00:50:11.760 and her fantasy.
00:50:12.860 Do you personally
00:50:13.600 want to hear
00:50:14.680 from the former president?
00:50:15.180 I wanted to hear
00:50:15.940 from the former president,
00:50:17.160 but honestly,
00:50:17.880 I kind of wanted
00:50:18.580 to subpoena the former president
00:50:19.740 because I got to
00:50:20.600 swear everybody in.
00:50:21.860 And so I thought
00:50:22.620 it'd be really cool
00:50:23.260 to get 60 seconds
00:50:24.240 with President Trump
00:50:25.140 of me looking at him
00:50:26.900 and being like,
00:50:27.460 do you solemnly swear?
00:50:28.800 And me getting
00:50:29.180 to swear him in,
00:50:29.780 and I just,
00:50:30.760 I kind of just thought
00:50:31.560 that would be
00:50:31.880 an awesome moment.
00:50:33.020 I mean,
00:50:33.320 Senator,
00:50:33.700 she's literally
00:50:35.180 fantasizing
00:50:36.160 about this
00:50:37.280 quote,
00:50:37.660 awesome moment
00:50:38.620 to personally
00:50:39.360 subpoena Donald Trump
00:50:40.660 and then she's
00:50:41.700 talking about
00:50:42.580 how giddy she is
00:50:43.380 and giggling
00:50:43.880 at the idea
00:50:44.460 that,
00:50:44.900 hey,
00:50:45.100 we didn't just
00:50:45.800 indict one person.
00:50:46.780 We've got a really
00:50:47.500 long list,
00:50:48.180 double spacing,
00:50:48.980 multiple pages
00:50:49.740 and then laughs.
00:50:51.500 Yeah,
00:50:52.000 I got to say,
00:50:52.740 I've never seen
00:50:53.480 anything like that.
00:50:54.360 I've never seen
00:50:55.520 a member of a grand jury
00:50:57.240 do a media tour
00:50:58.240 or even do interviews
00:50:59.460 before indictments
00:51:01.120 are handed down.
00:51:02.520 What occurs
00:51:03.760 before a grand jury
00:51:04.920 is secret by design
00:51:09.680 and that's just bizarre.
00:51:12.960 She,
00:51:13.180 I don't know
00:51:14.220 what Georgia law is.
00:51:16.640 I think there's
00:51:17.860 some real possibility
00:51:19.020 that she has violated
00:51:20.380 Georgia law
00:51:21.080 by doing that
00:51:22.000 and could face
00:51:23.720 real penalties for that.
00:51:25.520 it's bizarre.
00:51:29.120 She certainly
00:51:30.260 did real damage
00:51:31.320 to the prosecutor's case.
00:51:33.300 I am sure
00:51:34.240 we will see
00:51:35.140 litigation
00:51:35.900 motions
00:51:38.140 focusing on
00:51:39.360 how this was
00:51:40.380 a partisan
00:51:41.440 witch hunt
00:51:42.280 and,
00:51:43.140 you know,
00:51:43.260 there's an irony
00:51:43.880 to the phrase
00:51:44.700 partisan witch hunt
00:51:45.800 because when she went
00:51:46.680 on her media tour
00:51:47.560 and outed herself,
00:51:49.500 you know,
00:51:49.720 she decided
00:51:50.340 she wanted the world
00:51:51.320 to know
00:51:51.680 that she was
00:51:52.260 the foreperson
00:51:52.900 of this grand jury,
00:51:53.800 people naturally
00:51:55.820 looked and said,
00:51:56.540 well,
00:51:56.660 who is this person?
00:51:57.740 And her Pinterest
00:51:59.200 included
00:52:00.800 pins on topics
00:52:02.560 that included
00:52:03.300 astrology
00:52:03.980 and crystals
00:52:04.620 and potions
00:52:05.460 and spell castings
00:52:07.140 and symbols
00:52:07.900 and tarot card reading
00:52:09.260 and more than a few
00:52:10.900 people
00:52:11.440 observed with some
00:52:14.720 irony
00:52:15.280 that the foreperson
00:52:16.760 of a grand jury
00:52:17.680 leading a witch hunt
00:52:19.120 appears to have
00:52:19.960 some significant
00:52:22.220 involvement
00:52:22.840 and genuine
00:52:23.440 interest in witchcraft.
00:52:25.760 Yeah.
00:52:26.860 There you go.
00:52:27.600 Welcome to why people
00:52:28.500 are so angry
00:52:29.120 in America right now
00:52:30.080 and if there's anything
00:52:31.060 I can say,
00:52:31.760 I'm with you,
00:52:32.680 America,
00:52:33.000 on this one.
00:52:34.100 I'm sick and tired
00:52:34.900 of it.
00:52:35.200 I think it's very clear,
00:52:36.420 Senator,
00:52:36.660 you're sick and tired
00:52:37.340 of it as well.
00:52:37.880 The figuring out part
00:52:38.880 is how do we fight
00:52:39.680 back illegally
00:52:40.680 and start to defend
00:52:42.520 ourselves from the left
00:52:44.360 that has gone
00:52:45.020 completely rogue.
00:52:47.020 Don't forget
00:52:47.520 this podcast
00:52:48.140 comes out
00:52:48.900 Monday,
00:52:49.380 Wednesday,
00:52:49.780 and Friday.
00:52:50.920 Hit that follow button
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00:52:54.620 miss a single episode.
00:52:56.500 Hit that subscribe
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00:53:00.080 Each platform
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00:53:01.380 something different.
00:53:02.520 Make sure you don't
00:53:03.200 miss a single episode
00:53:04.320 and make sure you
00:53:04.940 write us a five-star review.
00:53:06.480 Why?
00:53:06.780 Because that helps us
00:53:07.820 reach new listeners
00:53:09.240 that may never have
00:53:10.100 seen this show before.
00:53:11.580 Thanks as always
00:53:12.260 for listening.
00:53:12.880 We'll see you back
00:53:13.460 here in a couple of days.
00:53:15.540 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:53:18.420 Guaranteed Human.