Verdict with Ted Cruz - Trump Indictment #4...Everything You Need to Know about the Latest Weaponization of Politics

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.

00:00:05.280 Welcome.

00:00:06.120 It is verdict to Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you.

00:00:09.520 And Senator, the big headline, Donald Trump's been indicted again just a couple of days

00:00:14.940 after more bad news came out about the Biden crime family.

00:00:18.180 It's at least we can predict it now.

00:00:20.640 It's like clockwork.

00:00:21.920 Your overall reaction to Trump indictment 4.0, which if he gets everything right, the

00:00:29.680 whole table they run on him, and he's convicted of everything, he'll be in jail for like 740

00:00:34.760 something years. 0.72

00:00:36.980 Well, I think it's absolutely ridiculous, and it is sadly predictable. 0.75

00:00:41.000 It has become like clockwork.

00:00:42.700 Every time bad news comes out about Joe Biden or Hunter Biden, every time additional evidence

00:00:48.080 comes out of corruption on the part of Joe Biden, within hours, a new Trump indictment

00:00:55.640 drops.

00:00:56.920 You know, you think back to the halcyon days of a year ago.

00:01:02.440 A year ago, our nation had gone more than two centuries, and we'd never once had a former

00:01:08.840 president or a current president or a current leading candidate for president indicted.

00:01:15.160 We just didn't do that.

00:01:16.160 That was something Banana Republics did. 1.00

00:01:19.080 That's something little tin pot dictatorships did. 1.00

00:01:21.920 But not the United States of America.

00:01:24.620 We have a representative form of government in which the voters decide, and we don't rely

00:01:31.420 on whoever controls the Department of Justice to use the court system to try to take out

00:01:38.440 your opponents.

00:01:40.000 In the past year, we've crossed that threshold not once, not twice, not three times, but now,

00:01:46.940 as of Monday night, four times.

00:01:50.400 There are four different indictments pending against Donald Trump.

00:01:53.200 One, the most ridiculous of all in New York state court, brought by Alvin Bragg over the 0.90

00:01:59.260 alleged hush money to the porn star with whom Trump allegedly had an affair. 0.89

00:02:05.760 Another, brought by the special counsel of the Department of Justice, concerns Trump's

00:02:12.280 retention of classified documents.

00:02:14.160 Now, mind you, Joe Biden had classified documents stored all over the place.

00:02:17.920 There is no indictment of Joe Biden for that.

00:02:19.820 This special power only applies to Republicans.

00:02:24.340 Number three was the DOJ special counsel's indictment over January 6th.

00:02:31.000 And then now number four is another state prosecutor, Fannie Willis, an elected Democrat in Georgia.

00:02:37.580 She decided she was going to get in on the fun.

00:02:40.880 And so she brought a sweeping indictment.

00:02:44.760 She brought an indictment with 41 different counts against not just Donald Trump, but 18 other alleged co-conspirators.

00:02:53.340 The heart of the allegation is RICO.

00:02:56.720 Now, RICO is a very powerful law.

00:02:59.080 It's a federal law.

00:02:59.880 But there are state analogs.

00:03:01.920 And she brought this indictment under the Georgia state version of RICO.

00:03:07.420 RICO was designed to get mobsters, to get racketeers.

00:03:13.680 And RICO is a conspiracy law which enables you to prove up the existence of a criminal enterprise

00:03:21.560 and then sweep in everyone involved in the enterprise to very significant criminal liability.

00:03:29.080 As I said, RICO was used most famously and, in fact, was designed to go after the mafia,

00:03:35.600 to go after the Cosa Nostra and to identify foot soldiers on the ground

00:03:40.160 and then use them and flip them to go all the way up to the capos and the godfathers themselves.

00:03:46.060 Well, in this instance, this indictment, it's against Trump and 18 others.

00:03:52.000 It includes a bunch of Trump's lawyers.

00:03:55.060 It includes Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman, Kenneth Chesbrod, Jenna Ellis, Sidney Powell.

00:04:05.720 It also includes Jeffrey Clark, who was a senior Department of Justice official.

00:04:10.100 It includes David Schaefer, who was the head of the Republican Party in Georgia.

00:04:16.060 It is remarkable that the world we're living in now, apparently political disagreements,

00:04:24.880 at least when you're dealing with Democrats in power, are resolved by trying to indict,

00:04:31.260 prosecute, drag through the mud, and put in jail your opponents. 0.69

00:04:35.140 But not only that, you don't just do your opponents.

00:04:37.760 You go after their entire legal team.

00:04:39.620 In this instance, virtually all of the lead lawyers for Donald Trump are now being prosecuted,

00:04:47.880 and it seems their principal crime was daring to represent Donald Trump.

00:04:53.240 Now, we've talked before about this podcast, that I think the legal team around Trump

00:04:58.480 should have done a much better job.

00:05:01.680 In particular, when it comes to litigating the election fraud cases across the country,

00:05:06.660 they did not do a very good job laying out the evidence, litigating those cases, and litigating

00:05:14.000 them to victory.

00:05:14.780 And many of the problems we had following that election came from less-than-stellar lawyering.

00:05:21.820 But there's a difference between not doing a tremendously effective job in court,

00:05:27.320 which sadly is not that uncommon, and in this instance, being told that because you represented

00:05:35.060 the president of the other party, the prosecutors are going to try to lock you up,

00:05:41.920 going to try to put you in jail, not only take away your license to practice law,

00:05:46.440 your ability to earn a livelihood, your ability to pay your mortgage, but incarcerate you.

00:05:52.000 I think this is disgraceful.

00:05:54.340 It is nakedly political.

00:06:00.860 And they were celebrating this on TV today.

00:06:03.480 I mean, MSNBC today, they had an entire segment throwing every name up there that you just mentioned,

00:06:09.640 Giuliani, John Eastman, Mark Meadows, Jeffrey Clark, Jenna Ellis, the list goes on and on.

00:06:15.820 And even your former colleague, Claire McCaskill, she said on TV today that she was, quote,

00:06:22.640 very happy that former New York City Mayor Giuliani was indicted in Georgia for his actions

00:06:27.320 after the 2020 presidential election.

00:06:29.120 She said this is a tale of two very different indictments.

00:06:31.960 We have one in the federal system that is lean and mean and targeted on the boss.

00:06:35.440 And then we have Georgia, where this prosecutor has decided that she needs to go after the whole 1.00

00:06:40.080 enterprise.

00:06:40.860 And all of this evidence would come in.

00:06:43.060 And the whole barrel of bad apples got indicted.

00:06:45.580 You can't assume in the federal indictment that those unindicted co-conspirators may or

00:06:50.760 may not be cooperating, may or not be charged.

00:06:54.160 You just don't know at this point.

00:06:55.500 But she said, on the other hand, in Georgia, since she indicted so many, you can assume a

00:07:00.680 fair number of those unindicted co-conspirators have cooperated and testified in front of the

00:07:05.940 grand jury.

00:07:06.640 Truthfully, they did not take the fifth.

00:07:08.500 I think the fake electors, there was a lot of them talking, getting immunity, and they

00:07:13.000 didn't.

00:07:13.400 And then she added, I'm just glad to see that, you know, Rudy Giuliani finally got

00:07:17.500 indicted.

00:07:18.300 Then she said, woo-hoo, literally said that. 0.97

00:07:21.420 She said, the good news is we finally have Rudy Giuliani indicted.

00:07:24.160 Woo-hoo. 0.65

00:07:24.960 That makes me very happy.

00:07:27.020 And of course, everybody on MSNBC was elated by this.

00:07:30.500 Look, they are vicious partisans.

00:07:32.820 One of the things it demonstrates is that they don't value democracy.

00:07:37.700 They don't value the democratic process.

00:07:40.140 Listen, this is all about their fear that if the voters have an opportunity to decide

00:07:46.080 fairly in November of next year, that the voters are going to reject the disastrous

00:07:51.440 agenda and record of Joe Biden and the Democrats.

00:07:54.220 And they look at Donald Trump as the leading Republican right now, and their objective

00:08:00.160 is they want to have these trials before Election Day.

00:08:04.700 Fannie Willis says she wants to have this trial in six months, which is a very rapid pace.

00:08:10.140 It would be right in the middle of the primaries.

00:08:12.500 And I think the Democrats bringing these cases believe, and there's some basis for this, that

00:08:20.360 the indictments make it more and more and more likely Trump wins the primary, which is what

00:08:25.860 the Democrats want.

00:08:27.720 But I think they also believe the indictments make it substantially less likely that he wins

00:08:33.300 the general, and that their objective is to have trial after trial after trial.

00:08:37.740 Now, that means he can't be out there campaigning if he's sitting in a criminal court defending

00:08:41.440 himself.

00:08:41.900 It means he spends tens of millions of dollars.

00:08:45.160 He's already spent over $40 million on legal fees.

00:08:49.280 He's going to spend a whole lot more defending these cases. 0.99

00:08:53.040 And they are counting on the useful idiots in the media to put every breathless moment of 1.00

00:09:02.160 every trial on the six o'clock news. 1.00

00:09:04.980 They don't want to talk about Biden's record.

00:09:08.100 They want to make this entirely about Donald Trump because they believe that that's how they

00:09:14.280 win.

00:09:14.720 But if you look at this indictment in Georgia, in many ways, this indictment could be the

00:09:23.000 most dangerous.

00:09:24.500 It's the most dangerous because, number one, it's a state court indictment.

00:09:31.000 It's under a state law.

00:09:32.280 That means it doesn't fall under federal law.

00:09:36.200 That means if a Republican were to win, a Republican could not order the case shut down.

00:09:43.720 The DOJ cases, a Republican president could shut that down on day one.

00:09:47.920 You can't do that with a state case.

00:09:49.640 The other state case is the New York case.

00:09:52.240 That one is absurd on its face.

00:09:54.320 So it's less of a threat.

00:09:55.840 But this one, RICO is a very powerful law.

00:09:59.760 And so the fact that this partisan Democrat, elected Democrat in a county that is 75-25

00:10:10.760 Democrat, that means the jury pool, just like the D.C. jury pool for Jack Smith's January

00:10:17.900 6th indictment, is going to be overwhelmingly Democrat.

00:10:23.340 It also means that the president's pardon power is largely taken off the table.

00:10:29.180 If a Republican wins in 2024, that Republican president could pardon Donald Trump from any

00:10:35.760 federal offense.

00:10:36.800 But the federal pardon power does not extend to state acts.

00:10:42.260 And so because this is a state prosecution, it pulls it out of that umbrella.

00:10:49.480 And in this instance, Georgia law is unusual because in many states, the governor has a

00:10:56.000 pardon power, much like the president does for federal offenses.

00:10:58.840 In many states, the governor has a pardon power for state offenses.

00:11:03.260 The Georgia law is very circumscribed.

00:11:05.940 So my understanding of the Georgia law is the governor does not have an independent pardon

00:11:11.220 power.

00:11:12.180 It is instead a board of pardons and paroles that is appointed by the governor and confirmed

00:11:17.500 by the state Senate.

00:11:19.080 That board has to recommend a pardon.

00:11:22.180 But the pardon, in turn, does not expunge a criminal conviction under Georgia law.

00:11:29.000 But critically, the board cannot recommend exercise of the pardon power until the defendant has

00:11:38.940 served five years of his prison sentence.

00:11:41.320 So it's a very circumscribed power that that means if this Democrat DA brings the case, gets

00:11:53.280 a conviction in front of a Democrat, overwhelmingly Democrat jury.

00:11:59.080 By the way, the appeal would go up to a Georgia state appellate court and the Georgia Supreme

00:12:06.900 Court.

00:12:07.480 And then ultimately, you could appeal to the U.S.

00:12:09.580 Supreme Court, but you could only appeal on federal issues.

00:12:13.360 And so it's got to be a federal constitutional issue, not a state court issue.

00:12:18.660 I think that certainly would happen.

00:12:20.320 But that process, as we discussed with the Jack Smith indictment, that process could take

00:12:25.200 years.

00:12:26.800 And this is designed to bloody everyone up, to dominate the news, to get Fannie Willis in the 1.00

00:12:33.300 news an awful lot.

00:12:34.480 Look, everyone else is getting famous on this.

00:12:36.660 She's running for re-election. 1.00

00:12:38.300 People need to understand that as well.

00:12:40.180 This is as much about her raising her name idea, just like everybody knows Alvin Bragg's

00:12:44.720 name in New York now, as it is for her to fundraise and say, vote for me because I'll go after 0.66

00:12:49.400 Donald Trump.

00:12:50.060 I'm not afraid of these guys.

00:12:51.680 And I'll lock up my political enemies.

00:12:54.420 It's a very good Democrat campaign issue.

00:12:56.600 Letitia James, the attorney general in New York, has likewise campaigned on that ground.

00:13:03.660 And if you're a Democrat, look, Claire McCaskill, who was always an incredibly partisan Democrat 0.90

00:13:11.900 senator when she served in the Senate, she pretended to be middle of the road, but she 1.00

00:13:16.980 could stick a knife in the back of her enemies with the best of them. 1.00

00:13:22.180 Listen, she hates Donald Trump and she's gleefully laughing at, listen, one of the objectives 0.93

00:13:28.660 here is to bankrupt all of these other defendants, to bankrupt Rudy Giuliani and John Eastman and

00:13:33.600 Mark Meadows and all of the others, because they are, they hate them.

00:13:40.120 Their view, it's a scorched earth, we're going to use the criminal justice procedure to try

00:13:47.620 to destroy the lives of our enemies.

00:13:49.980 And I think it's a really sad threshold.

00:13:53.880 It's an abuse.

00:13:54.620 Now, one of the threshold questions will be whether this stays in state court or whether

00:14:03.560 it's removed to federal court.

00:14:05.080 So Mark Meadows has already filed a motion.

00:14:07.700 Yeah, he's already said, I'm going to, I want this moved.

00:14:09.720 Yeah, he has filed a motion to remove it to federal court and the argument that he makes

00:14:17.480 is that all of the actions that he's being charged for are his actions as the White House

00:14:22.960 chief of staff, that they were calling officials on behalf of the president, they were setting

00:14:27.920 up meetings on behalf of the president, they were official acts, and as such, under federal

00:14:34.780 law, belong in federal court.

00:14:36.280 Now, we'll see how that motion plays out, and it's widely speculated that Trump will

00:14:41.960 file a similar motion.

00:14:43.480 I don't know how those will play out, but that will be one of the first battles, is whether

00:14:50.140 it stays in state court or federal court.

00:14:53.500 I think there's a good chance it's going to stay in state court, and in state court, there's

00:14:58.840 a lot of danger that this thing gets really ugly before it gets better.

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00:16:41.240 Senator, I want to ask you another question about the trial quickly.

00:16:44.960 Before I get into this other aspect, and that is a lot of conservatives are really upset that

00:16:50.800 they feel like Republicans aren't fighting back.

00:16:53.320 And before we break that down, if this does go to trial, does everybody go to trial on

00:16:59.760 the same day, at the same time, in the same court?

00:17:02.520 Are they all in different courts?

00:17:04.420 All those that were indicted around Trump in Georgia?

00:17:07.660 And the other thing is, you're not supposed to be able to interfere with an election.

00:17:11.900 I think it's pretty clear this is election interference.

00:17:15.020 So is there a chance that Donald Trump can say, and all these other defendants, hey, you

00:17:19.740 guys are interfering in an election.

00:17:21.720 You can't bring us to trial in six months for the sole purpose of sitting on this case

00:17:26.500 for two and a half years, then bringing it with the sole purpose of tying us up in court

00:17:31.380 instead of not being able to be on the campaign trail.

00:17:34.100 Well, there are going to be lots of questions litigated.

00:17:36.380 And one of the questions litigated is going to be whether this is a joint trial or several

00:17:41.720 trials.

00:17:43.180 Individual defendants can file a motion to sever their trial and have it conduct separately.

00:17:48.860 Now, with a RICO, one of the advantages of bringing a RICO prosecution is that if you

00:17:54.000 connect people to the criminal enterprise, they're all looped in and can be liable for

00:17:59.280 the criminal acts of each other.

00:18:00.760 And so that'll be a decision.

00:18:03.600 Each of these defendants presumably is going to lawyer up.

00:18:07.360 I would hope they have already, although it is not clear how many of them even can afford

00:18:13.700 lawyers at this point.

00:18:14.940 I don't know the extent to which the Trump campaign is paying for lawyers for some of

00:18:20.340 these defendants or if they're just on their own and bearing the potential cost and exposure.

00:18:26.760 The indictment itself, it lists 161 overt acts, and those are acts that are allegedly in

00:18:37.080 furtherance of the conspiracy.

00:18:39.460 Of those 161 overt acts that are laid out in the indictment, 43 of them are acts taken

00:18:47.080 or directed by Trump.

00:18:48.780 So, two-thirds of the listed acts, actually three-fourths of the listed acts, are not taken

00:18:57.660 by Trump.

00:18:58.500 But 43 of them are acts taken by Trump or directed.

00:19:02.440 20 of them, which is fewer than half, are Georgia-specific.

00:19:08.100 So, of the 43, 20 of them are Georgia-specific.

00:19:12.520 And of those 20, half of them are tweets.

00:19:17.860 They're tweets from Donald Trump about Georgia-specific issues. 0.98

00:19:21.840 So, literally, pulling out his damn phone and sending a tweet, this DA is trying to prosecute 0.99

00:19:28.400 him and put him in jail for sending a tweet. 0.99

00:19:31.360 And the remaining 23 acts that are either taken or directed by Trump are acts that are directed

00:19:38.420 in Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania, the Department of Justice, the Republican National Committee

00:19:43.700 chairwoman, and the vice president or other unindicted co-conspirators.

00:19:50.520 And so, and some of these alleged, these overt acts are very, very vague.

00:19:55.780 So, for example, Act No. 30, let me read you what Act No. 30 is.

00:20:00.380 Trump, quote, placed a telephone call to President Pro Tempore of the Georgia Senate, Butch Miller.

00:20:07.760 This was an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy.

00:20:12.420 That's it.

00:20:13.200 That's what they allege.

00:20:14.240 You called a state legislator.

00:20:16.280 So, apparently, it is now a criminal act to call a state legislator.

00:20:20.300 Now, it could be a criminal act to call a state legislator.

00:20:24.000 If you say, call a state legislator and said,

00:20:27.860 Hey, the Chinese communists are sending me $8 million.

00:20:32.240 Could you open a shell company bank account for that $8 million and then funnel it to my kids and grandkids?

00:20:39.740 Okay, that would be an instance of a president or vice president making a call to a state legislator

00:20:44.300 where the call was criminal.

00:20:45.880 So, it is possible that criminal activity occurred in the call.

00:20:51.100 But I'll tell you, the indictment doesn't allege it.

00:20:54.700 And we're literally facing a world where TDS, Trump derangement syndrome, is so bad, 0.87

00:21:03.160 Democrats have convinced themselves that Trump is the devil,

00:21:06.820 that they now want to put him in jail for sending tweets,

00:21:10.100 and they want to put lawyers in jail for representing their client or for making legal arguments.

00:21:18.200 This is not law.

00:21:20.400 This is politics, and this is the weaponization of criminal justice.

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00:21:57.940 I want to ask you about, and this I think is an important point,

00:22:01.600 there are a lot of conservatives that listen.

00:22:04.200 They see what the Bidens have done.

00:22:06.140 They see what's being done right now to Trump.

00:22:08.180 And they're really angry.

00:22:10.460 They're upset for the fact that they feel like Republicans aren't doing enough to fight back.

00:22:17.460 I don't know who wrote this, by the way, but it was sent to me.

00:22:21.120 And I think it encompasses a lot of the, what I'm hearing on my show, when I'm doing my podcast,

00:22:28.280 a lot of the messages you and I get from this podcast.

00:22:30.700 And this is what it says.

00:22:32.080 So, Republicans did nothing about Bill Clinton flying to islands with minors.

00:22:36.760 Republicans did nothing about Hillary Clinton smashing devices, hiding classified emails, 1.00

00:22:42.540 and then destroying evidence after she was told to give it back.

00:22:46.100 Republicans did nothing about James Comey brazenly lying.

00:22:49.380 Republicans did nothing about Annie McCabe plotting a silent coup against a sitting president,

00:22:54.040 trying to overthrow the will of the people when Donald Trump was elected.

00:22:56.600 Republicans did nothing about Black Lives Matter raising $100 million and breaking charitable giving laws.

00:23:03.960 Republicans in Florida did nothing about James Biden's alleged fraud scheme involving a hospital system.

00:23:09.500 Republicans in Arkansas did nothing about Hunter Biden's mid-range crimes there.

00:23:13.760 Republicans have done nothing against Antifa and their interstate Rico operations.

00:23:19.480 Republicans have done nothing against Fauci, Echo Health Alliance,

00:23:22.480 or the other fake scientists who promoted lies about COVID's origins to hide their own culpability.

00:23:28.980 Why would Democrats be afraid of us?

00:23:31.140 They run the country while Republican AGs and DAs quiver in fear and run for the hills.

00:23:39.040 Now, I think this is an adequate, honestly, representation of many conservatives now that are saying,

00:23:45.160 look, if they're not going to play by the rules, us trying to be the elder statesman here is not working,

00:23:52.100 they're beating our brains in, when are we going to take the gloves off and go, 0.79

00:23:55.660 okay, if you want to play this way, then damn it, we're going to play this way too, 0.89

00:24:00.360 and let's start going after the Bidens and the Clintons and everybody else on this list at the state level, 0.93

00:24:06.020 just like the Democrats are doing right now trying to decimate and financially ruin anyone around Donald Trump

00:24:12.900 to try to also hurt him that way as well.

00:24:15.520 Well, listen, I agree with a lot of the points raised in that tweet that you read,

00:24:22.280 laying out a number of what appear to be serious criminal acts that were not prosecuted,

00:24:32.500 and I share massive frustration over that.

00:24:35.820 Now, let me be clear. 1.00

00:24:36.900 I understand the sentiment of, damn it, if these bastards are going to weaponize the justice system 0.99

00:24:44.500 and try to lock up Republicans for running against them, 0.99

00:24:47.840 we ought to weaponize the justice system and lock up Democrats for being Democrats. 1.00

00:24:52.220 I understand that that's a very human reaction.

00:24:56.040 I don't agree with it.

00:24:57.240 I don't agree with abusing law enforcement, whether it is for my team or the other team.

00:25:03.520 I don't want a Republican Department of Justice.

00:25:07.420 I don't want a Republican FBI.

00:25:09.820 I don't want a Democrat Department of Justice or a Democrat FBI.

00:25:13.100 I want a Department of Justice and FBI that follows the law and enforces the law.

00:25:17.480 Now, if you go back to the Trump administration,

00:25:21.500 one of the enormous problems in the Trump administration is that many of the appointments

00:25:25.800 that Trump made to the cabinet, to the subcabinet, to the agencies were lousy appointments.

00:25:32.300 They did not do a good job.

00:25:34.680 James Comey, who is a wildly partisan FBI director, Trump left him in office for two-plus years.

00:25:42.420 That was an enormous mistake.

00:25:44.080 James Comey should have been fired on January 20th, 2017.

00:25:48.960 The Trump White House made serious personnel mistakes,

00:25:52.560 and they put the wrong people in charge, in particular at the Department of Justice and the FBI.

00:25:57.600 And, you know, you go through that whole list.

00:26:00.560 Antifa, why we didn't bring multiple prosecutions.

00:26:05.740 Look, we had on this podcast a couple of years ago,

00:26:08.300 we had Bill Barr when he was the sitting attorney general on the Verdict podcast.

00:26:11.760 And I was frustrated then, and I'm frustrated now,

00:26:15.340 that they did not devote real and serious resources,

00:26:19.080 that when people burn American cities to the ground,

00:26:22.700 when they firebomb and loot stores and terrorize American citizens,

00:26:28.580 why DOJ didn't come in there and prosecute violent criminals.

00:26:33.440 That's not abusing law enforcement.

00:26:36.400 That's actually applying the law fairly and directly to real violent crime.

00:26:43.960 They didn't do a very good job of that.

00:26:46.800 You go through, listen, this Hunter Biden stuff and the Joe Biden stuff,

00:26:53.720 the Department of Justice, this FD-1023 that we've talked about in this podcast,

00:26:58.020 of the confidential human source that alleged Joe Biden and Hunter Biden

00:27:01.960 solicited and received a bribe from a Ukrainian oligarch,

00:27:06.820 that came in to the Trump FBI and the Trump DOJ.

00:27:12.520 And they sat on it.

00:27:14.260 Now, we've talked at length about how the deep state

00:27:17.160 spent four years waging war on Donald Trump.

00:27:21.360 As you know, the last book I wrote,

00:27:23.420 Justice Corrupted, How the Left Has Weaponized the Legal System,

00:27:26.360 goes into in-depth how these hard partisans

00:27:31.160 burrowed into career senior positions at the FBI and the DOJ

00:27:36.760 and the IRS and the CIA.

00:27:39.820 And not only did they not enforce the law against left-wingers,

00:27:45.900 but they aggressively weaponized law enforcement

00:27:49.520 from within the deep state

00:27:51.500 against the duly elected president of the United States.

00:27:54.820 And so I share that frustration.

00:27:59.960 And you're right, there's a whole pattern of criminal conduct

00:28:04.660 that we have not had.

00:28:08.560 Look, I think the fact that Jeffrey Epstein

00:28:10.820 was able to hang himself in a jail cell

00:28:16.180 is an absolute outrage.

00:28:18.540 It is disgraceful.

00:28:19.560 He was on suicide watch. 0.82

00:28:20.820 Why the hell weren't they watching him?

00:28:22.140 And I want to know every one of those clients

00:28:25.240 in that black book, 0.97

00:28:26.740 every one of those perverts 0.99

00:28:28.380 that assaulted little girls 0.96

00:28:31.140 should be brought to justice.

00:28:33.040 And we have not seen

00:28:34.540 any vigorous effort, to be clear,

00:28:37.760 any vigorous effort by Republicans or Democrats

00:28:40.520 to have accountability.

00:28:42.780 Listen, Jeffrey Epstein had in his living room

00:28:45.020 in his New York home,

00:28:48.120 an oil painting of Bill Clinton

00:28:51.560 in a blue cocktail dress and high-heeled pumps.

00:28:57.160 So, you know, Jeffrey Epstein was a very close friend to Bill,

00:29:00.980 and there's been no accountability for that.

00:29:04.220 That is infuriating.

00:29:06.360 But I want to underscore

00:29:08.960 the answer is not just tit-for-tat

00:29:12.020 of let's bring bogus prosecutions 0.58

00:29:16.340 against our political enemies.

00:29:19.060 The answer is

00:29:20.280 let's put people in a position of law enforcement

00:29:23.460 that have the courage

00:29:24.560 to investigate and follow the evidence

00:29:27.500 and bring cases of real wrongdoing.

00:29:30.400 Listen, there's a qualitative difference.

00:29:33.260 Compare the allegations right now

00:29:35.140 against Joe and Hunter Biden

00:29:36.200 to the allegations against Trump.

00:29:38.860 The allegations...

00:29:40.240 And before you say this,

00:29:41.060 this is what pisses people off.

00:29:43.300 Yeah.

00:29:43.780 Is they feel like there's so much evidence here.

00:29:46.740 Yes.

00:29:47.340 Against Joe Biden, against Hunter Biden,

00:29:49.160 against the Biden crime family,

00:29:50.600 the list is long,

00:29:52.260 and there's not a single DA

00:29:54.760 or, you know,

00:29:57.760 whoever in law enforcement, right,

00:29:59.720 that could maybe throw down on them

00:30:01.660 that's doing it,

00:30:02.400 they're going,

00:30:03.000 there's real crimes here, for goodness.

00:30:04.980 And you guys aren't doing anything.

00:30:06.780 They're making up crimes

00:30:08.080 against Donald Trump

00:30:09.480 and trying to bankrupt everybody around him.

00:30:11.780 I mean, I know people,

00:30:12.860 and Senator, I'm sure you do too,

00:30:14.820 who say they can't afford financially

00:30:16.960 to go work for Donald Trump,

00:30:18.220 even if he is re-elected,

00:30:19.800 because the legal liability

00:30:21.420 is just too great of a strain.

00:30:23.380 I know people

00:30:24.120 that have had to take out,

00:30:25.620 apparently, loans

00:30:26.540 just to defend themselves

00:30:27.740 because they worked at the White House

00:30:28.900 and did nothing wrong.

00:30:29.960 Yeah.

00:30:30.600 So, look,

00:30:31.300 I will say

00:30:32.240 for many of the crimes

00:30:34.960 that were on that list,

00:30:36.720 those crimes are federal.

00:30:39.100 Most of the,

00:30:39.760 not all of them,

00:30:40.440 but most of them are federal.

00:30:42.980 And that limits

00:30:44.440 who can prosecute.

00:30:46.820 A federal crime

00:30:47.920 can only be prosecuted

00:30:49.320 by the U.S. Department of Justice,

00:30:51.120 by the federal government.

00:30:52.560 That means a state DA

00:30:54.360 can't bring,

00:30:55.600 can't prosecute

00:30:56.580 a federal crime.

00:30:57.540 A U.S. attorney

00:30:59.160 in a given state

00:30:59.940 can prosecute it,

00:31:00.980 but all of the 93 U.S. attorneys

00:31:02.640 work for the Attorney General,

00:31:04.500 and so it's,

00:31:05.180 it's the Department of Justice.

00:31:07.080 And so when you have,

00:31:09.060 as we have now,

00:31:11.020 a deeply partisan DOJ

00:31:14.340 under Joe Biden

00:31:15.400 and Merrick Garland,

00:31:17.060 it means that none

00:31:18.340 of the U.S. attorneys

00:31:19.220 will enforce the law

00:31:20.460 against their buddies.

00:31:21.580 And so it's why

00:31:22.660 when David Weiss

00:31:24.600 apparently asked

00:31:25.740 the U.S. attorney

00:31:26.720 in the Central District

00:31:27.420 of California

00:31:28.120 to bring more serious charges

00:31:30.400 against Hunter Biden,

00:31:31.360 he was told no.

00:31:32.620 When the U.S. attorney

00:31:33.580 in D.C.,

00:31:34.380 who was a big Democrat donor,

00:31:35.760 gave money to Joe Biden,

00:31:36.840 was asked about bringing

00:31:38.260 more serious charges

00:31:39.160 against Hunter Biden,

00:31:40.140 again, he said no.

00:31:41.840 The California Central District

00:31:43.680 U.S. attorney

00:31:45.160 was a donor

00:31:45.720 to Kamala Harris.

00:31:46.620 They were both

00:31:47.000 Democrat donors.

00:31:48.940 So the challenge is,

00:31:50.540 for federal crimes,

00:31:51.960 it has to be

00:31:52.680 DOJ bringing them.

00:31:53.840 So in order for a state DA

00:31:57.220 or a state attorney general,

00:31:59.080 in some states,

00:31:59.880 attorneys general

00:32:00.560 have the ability

00:32:01.220 to prosecute criminal cases,

00:32:03.200 not every state,

00:32:03.940 and it varies state by state,

00:32:05.340 but it has to be

00:32:07.020 a violation of state law

00:32:09.020 that typically occurred

00:32:11.000 in the state.

00:32:12.620 There has to be a nexus

00:32:13.740 to the jurisdiction.

00:32:15.140 Now, look,

00:32:16.160 I would note Virginia.

00:32:18.260 Virginia is now

00:32:19.320 a Republican state

00:32:20.340 with a Republican attorney general,

00:32:21.840 and there's an awful lot

00:32:23.580 of Democrats

00:32:24.120 who are living

00:32:25.340 and operating in Virginia

00:32:26.540 that are in and around D.C.

00:32:30.520 If you look at,

00:32:31.460 but my point on this,

00:32:32.880 compare Georgia

00:32:34.220 to the allegations

00:32:36.700 against Joe Biden.

00:32:38.800 And to be clear,

00:32:40.200 these are allegations,

00:32:42.120 among others,

00:32:43.200 from two senior career

00:32:46.240 IRS employees

00:32:47.420 who are whistleblowers

00:32:48.520 who risked their entire career

00:32:50.220 to come forward

00:32:50.920 and to say

00:32:51.500 that there's obstruction

00:32:52.600 of justice

00:32:53.180 and lying under oath

00:32:54.280 and a cover-up

00:32:55.040 that is hiding criminality

00:32:56.760 from Hunter Biden

00:32:57.760 and hiding criminality

00:32:59.780 from Joe Biden.

00:33:01.440 Compare on the face of it

00:33:03.120 a president of the United States

00:33:05.880 or a vice president

00:33:06.680 of the United States

00:33:07.620 soliciting and receiving

00:33:09.660 millions of dollars

00:33:10.880 of bribes

00:33:11.600 from multiple foreign nationals,

00:33:14.000 from oligarchs in Ukraine,

00:33:16.420 oligarchs in Russia,

00:33:17.740 from Kazakhstan,

00:33:19.580 from Chinese communist officials

00:33:22.600 and selling favors, 0.60

00:33:26.200 federal government favors

00:33:27.460 in exchange for millions

00:33:29.160 of dollars of bribes.

00:33:30.580 On the face of it,

00:33:32.180 that is extraordinarily serious.

00:33:34.520 There is a reason

00:33:35.480 the Constitution specifies bribery

00:33:38.900 as a ground for impeachment.

00:33:42.260 Impeachment lies for treason,

00:33:43.980 bribery,

00:33:44.560 or other high crimes

00:33:45.860 or misdemeanors.

00:33:48.020 Contrast that

00:33:48.940 to this indictment

00:33:51.240 that is indicting Trump

00:33:52.880 for a bunch of tweets

00:33:54.080 and a few phone calls he made.

00:33:56.160 Yeah, I mean,

00:33:56.560 there's literally

00:33:57.040 one of the lines

00:33:58.220 in this actual indictment.

00:33:59.700 It says,

00:34:01.000 on or about the third day

00:34:03.460 of December 2020,

00:34:04.800 Donald John Trump

00:34:05.920 caused to be tweeted

00:34:09.320 from the Twitter account

00:34:10.380 at RealDonaldTrump,

00:34:11.300 Georgia hearings now

00:34:13.900 on OAN.

00:34:15.560 Amazing.

00:34:16.700 This was an overt act

00:34:18.220 in furtherance

00:34:19.220 of the conspiracy,

00:34:20.420 and they have now

00:34:22.580 made that into

00:34:23.860 a criminal case. 0.93

00:34:25.840 It's ludicrous, 0.87

00:34:27.540 and it is 0.99

00:34:28.680 deranged partisanship

00:34:32.680 that is saying

00:34:33.800 that sending a tweet

00:34:35.080 or,

00:34:36.740 in the case of the lawyers,

00:34:38.440 representing your clients

00:34:39.760 or making legal arguments,

00:34:41.320 this is actually

00:34:41.980 one of the things

00:34:42.620 really at the heart

00:34:43.300 of Jack Smith's indictment

00:34:44.420 on January 6th,

00:34:45.660 where he indicts Trump

00:34:46.720 because he says,

00:34:47.620 okay,

00:34:47.800 you had one group

00:34:48.460 of lawyers

00:34:49.020 who gave you

00:34:49.440 one set of advice,

00:34:50.620 one group of lawyers

00:34:51.560 who gave you

00:34:51.980 another set of advice,

00:34:53.220 you went with

00:34:54.000 group number one

00:34:54.760 and not group number two,

00:34:56.020 therefore that's a felony.

00:34:58.140 Like, what?

00:34:59.300 Yeah.

00:34:59.720 That's insane,

00:35:00.880 and his proof is,

00:35:02.560 well,

00:35:02.780 you knew group number one

00:35:03.860 was wrong

00:35:04.320 because group number two

00:35:05.180 told you something different.

00:35:06.260 Well, no.

00:35:08.740 You know,

00:35:09.580 it reminds me

00:35:10.460 of Ronald Reagan's

00:35:11.320 old joke

00:35:12.140 about economists

00:35:13.880 that he said,

00:35:15.100 you know,

00:35:15.460 Reagan said,

00:35:16.040 I want a one-armed economist

00:35:17.900 so that he can't say,

00:35:19.800 on the other hand,

00:35:21.420 look,

00:35:21.740 if you spend time

00:35:23.000 around lawyers,

00:35:23.660 you're going to get

00:35:24.080 a bunch of different opinions,

00:35:25.340 and it is,

00:35:27.040 it cannot be the law

00:35:28.920 that it is a crime

00:35:30.900 to believe

00:35:32.260 one set of lawyers

00:35:33.360 over another set of lawyers,

00:35:34.600 even if,

00:35:35.180 by the way,

00:35:35.580 the set of lawyers

00:35:36.520 you believe is wrong,

00:35:37.540 that that cannot be a crime,

00:35:39.700 and in this instance,

00:35:40.560 that's exactly

00:35:41.420 what they're weaponizing,

00:35:42.680 and it's an absolute

00:35:44.120 double standard,

00:35:46.260 and look,

00:35:47.960 it is nakedly

00:35:50.900 election interference.

00:35:52.400 It's why MSNBC 1.00

00:35:53.900 is ecstatic,

00:35:57.780 and I'll point out,

00:35:59.440 listen,

00:35:59.820 a lot of this information

00:36:01.240 about the bribery scandal

00:36:03.660 could have been brought out,

00:36:06.000 could have been prosecuted,

00:36:07.820 when Trump was president.

00:36:09.640 It occurred

00:36:10.800 before Trump was president.

00:36:13.040 They had substantial evidence,

00:36:14.540 I'll tell you,

00:36:15.140 during the first

00:36:15.820 Trump impeachment trial,

00:36:16.980 and as most listeners know,

00:36:21.040 verdict launched

00:36:22.060 the first night

00:36:23.480 of the first

00:36:25.140 Trump impeachment trial

00:36:26.200 and went every night

00:36:27.260 immediately after the trial.

00:36:29.240 I went to Trump's legal team,

00:36:31.720 and I argued

00:36:33.320 vociferously,

00:36:34.300 I said,

00:36:34.660 listen,

00:36:35.360 they have given you

00:36:37.140 a gift.

00:36:39.300 Prosecute

00:36:39.900 Burisma. 0.97

00:36:41.880 Lay out the facts.

00:36:43.760 Lay out 1.00

00:36:44.360 the son-of-a-bitch video, 1.00

00:36:45.900 but lay out 1.00

00:36:46.760 the quid pro quo.

00:36:48.840 Demonstrate

00:36:49.360 that this oligarch

00:36:51.300 was paying off

00:36:52.520 the Biden family

00:36:53.600 for official

00:36:55.120 favors

00:36:56.400 from Joe Biden.

00:36:57.440 You have the ability

00:36:58.260 to do it,

00:36:59.120 not just in a court of law,

00:37:00.360 but on the floor

00:37:01.040 of the Senate.

00:37:01.680 I said,

00:37:02.080 this is

00:37:02.580 an enormous gift,

00:37:05.200 and Trump's lawyers

00:37:07.000 didn't want to.

00:37:08.600 They said no.

00:37:09.880 And listen,

00:37:10.660 they were very nervous.

00:37:11.520 There was a critical,

00:37:13.600 tactical decision

00:37:14.480 in that first impeachment trial,

00:37:17.000 which is whether or not

00:37:18.920 to call witnesses.

00:37:20.180 And I urged the White House,

00:37:21.680 I said,

00:37:22.080 listen,

00:37:23.660 y'all should let them

00:37:24.640 call witnesses,

00:37:25.480 but you should call witnesses.

00:37:26.920 You should put

00:37:27.560 Hunter Biden on the stand.

00:37:29.340 You should lay out

00:37:30.360 these facts.

00:37:31.940 And ultimately,

00:37:33.220 the Trump legal defense team

00:37:34.960 decided,

00:37:35.540 well,

00:37:35.740 let's just get through

00:37:36.500 this impeachment,

00:37:37.400 so let's have no witnesses.

00:37:38.940 But I think,

00:37:40.480 in hindsight,

00:37:41.520 it was an enormous mistake

00:37:43.420 not to have laid out

00:37:45.940 and proven up

00:37:46.660 that evidence then.

00:37:48.740 It would have made

00:37:49.780 a world of difference now.

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00:39:30.420 Senator, I want to play

00:39:31.220 for you something else

00:39:32.920 that I really think

00:39:33.800 struck a nerve

00:39:34.500 with many people,

00:39:35.220 and that was

00:39:35.880 Hillary Clinton

00:39:36.560 was on TV

00:39:37.980 much like you were

00:39:38.940 on TV

00:39:39.520 when this indictment

00:39:40.700 was coming down.

00:39:41.360 You were on Hannity.

00:39:42.580 And Hillary Clinton 0.90

00:39:43.580 was on MSNBC.

00:39:45.260 She said this

00:39:46.440 about the indictment

00:39:47.640 of Donald Trump.

00:39:48.920 I don't know

00:39:49.520 that anybody

00:39:50.040 should be satisfied.

00:39:51.320 This is a terrible moment

00:39:53.900 for our country

00:39:55.060 to have a former president

00:39:57.620 accused of these

00:39:58.800 terribly important crimes.

00:40:02.340 The only satisfaction

00:40:04.260 may be that the system

00:40:05.740 is working,

00:40:06.960 that all of the efforts

00:40:08.560 by Donald Trump,

00:40:10.020 his allies,

00:40:11.040 and his enablers

00:40:12.000 to try to silence

00:40:13.880 the truth,

00:40:14.860 to try to undermine

00:40:16.120 democracy,

00:40:17.800 have been brought

00:40:18.780 into the light,

00:40:20.680 and justice

00:40:22.060 is being pursued.

00:40:23.080 I mean,

00:40:24.720 that infuriated me

00:40:26.200 and many others

00:40:26.960 when they heard it

00:40:27.660 because they remember

00:40:29.060 that this is the same woman

00:40:30.120 that knew that Donald Trump

00:40:30.980 was being indicted

00:40:31.840 for a dossier

00:40:33.600 that she paid for

00:40:34.640 and the DNC paid for.

00:40:36.040 She knew

00:40:36.620 it was a coup attempt

00:40:38.440 in essence

00:40:38.900 when they went after him

00:40:39.860 in the first Trump impeachment.

00:40:41.540 This is the same woman 0.99

00:40:42.420 that had classified

00:40:44.460 information documents

00:40:45.800 on an outside server

00:40:47.100 on an outside email account

00:40:48.460 and lied about it,

00:40:49.540 and then when it got busted,

00:40:50.320 they said,

00:40:50.720 hey, give us the intel

00:40:51.540 and guess what happened?

00:40:53.020 She said,

00:40:53.580 no, we're going to destroy it,

00:40:54.620 and they did.

00:40:55.160 They bleach bit it 0.90

00:40:55.940 and they smashed

00:40:56.600 the BlackBerrys

00:40:57.820 and the iPhones involved.

00:40:59.480 And they used hammers

00:41:00.580 to do it.

00:41:01.380 And they used hammers

00:41:02.120 to do it,

00:41:02.640 and you sit there

00:41:03.480 and you hear her say this,

00:41:05.420 and this does go back

00:41:06.680 to the point

00:41:07.240 where I said earlier,

00:41:08.240 but like,

00:41:09.260 at what point

00:41:10.240 do we fight back?

00:41:12.180 We've got to fight back.

00:41:13.600 We've got to fight back.

00:41:14.860 Look,

00:41:15.200 I am beyond frustrated.

00:41:18.340 I'm frustrated

00:41:19.400 that we did not see that

00:41:21.100 during the Trump administration

00:41:23.140 that the DOJ

00:41:24.540 and the FBI

00:41:25.420 did not hold people

00:41:27.760 to account

00:41:28.400 the way they should have,

00:41:29.560 and it is maddening.

00:41:31.180 It's infuriating.

00:41:33.180 And it comes down

00:41:34.660 to the political appointments

00:41:36.540 that are put in charge.

00:41:37.800 Jeff Sessions

00:41:38.380 was appointed

00:41:39.420 Attorney General.

00:41:40.320 Jeff is a very nice man.

00:41:41.580 He promptly recused himself

00:41:42.980 from an enormous amount

00:41:44.320 of what was happening

00:41:45.040 at DOJ

00:41:46.040 and let the deep state

00:41:47.320 hijack the department

00:41:49.080 and ultimately

00:41:50.820 was not able

00:41:53.000 to overcome

00:41:54.320 the corruption

00:41:57.960 that had burrowed in

00:41:59.540 to the department.

00:42:01.520 But that ultimately

00:42:02.980 has real consequences,

00:42:04.440 that you've got

00:42:05.940 to be willing

00:42:08.480 to prosecute people

00:42:11.260 who commit real

00:42:12.200 and serious crimes.

00:42:13.320 Look, Hillary's talking

00:42:15.220 about undermining

00:42:15.960 democracy there.

00:42:16.940 There's an irony

00:42:17.880 because, of course,

00:42:19.280 Hillary in 2016

00:42:20.440 insisted that Trump's election

00:42:22.180 was illegitimate,

00:42:23.280 that she was the president

00:42:24.600 of the United States,

00:42:25.600 and that, you know,

00:42:28.200 today Democrats

00:42:29.460 allege that

00:42:30.320 saying that there's

00:42:31.740 fraud in an election,

00:42:32.820 that saying that

00:42:33.320 an election's illegitimate,

00:42:34.900 is undermining

00:42:37.400 the democracy

00:42:39.020 and the country

00:42:39.640 and everything else.

00:42:40.780 Of course,

00:42:41.100 they do it

00:42:41.640 in every cycle.

00:42:43.000 You'll recall

00:42:43.960 last fall

00:42:45.740 when I went on The View

00:42:46.800 and The View began,

00:42:48.340 the ladies on The View

00:42:49.620 began screaming at me

00:42:51.020 about Republicans

00:42:53.760 being election deniers,

00:42:55.080 and I just sat there

00:42:56.020 and read Hillary Clinton,

00:42:57.840 I read Al Gore,

00:42:58.860 I read Democrat 0.91

00:42:59.600 after Democrat

00:43:00.300 after Democrat,

00:43:01.160 I read Joe Biden,

00:43:02.440 all of whom,

00:43:03.400 when they lose elections,

00:43:04.620 promptly try to undermine

00:43:06.140 the legitimacy

00:43:06.740 of the election.

00:43:08.340 But it's one-sided,

00:43:09.740 and it's

00:43:11.660 nakedly

00:43:13.540 a double standard.

00:43:15.280 I want to ask you

00:43:16.260 one other question

00:43:17.060 about what happened

00:43:18.300 with Fulton County

00:43:19.540 Court publishing

00:43:20.600 and then removing

00:43:22.620 the Trump indictment.

00:43:25.080 This, they said,

00:43:26.180 was a fictitious document

00:43:27.820 that was uploaded

00:43:28.540 to their website.

00:43:30.240 The Fulton County

00:43:31.080 DA was like,

00:43:33.160 oh, I'm not involved

00:43:35.140 with the documents

00:43:37.860 as they go online.

00:43:39.140 That's not what I do.

00:43:40.440 It was an incredibly bizarre,

00:43:43.280 unexplained act

00:43:44.260 that some critics

00:43:46.080 are now saying

00:43:46.740 violated Trump's

00:43:47.740 constitutional rights

00:43:48.720 to due process of law.

00:43:50.800 Reuters was the first

00:43:52.280 to report the document

00:43:53.240 had been filed,

00:43:54.360 then had to update

00:43:55.620 its report

00:43:56.240 when the document

00:43:56.960 was removed

00:43:57.720 from the court website,

00:43:59.620 and then the office

00:44:00.340 of Fulton County

00:44:00.960 District Attorney

00:44:01.640 Willis denied

00:44:02.780 that the indictment

00:44:03.560 had yet been issued

00:44:04.440 because the grand jury

00:44:05.440 hadn't officially

00:44:06.700 finished meeting

00:44:07.800 or had met.

00:44:08.700 We're still trying

00:44:09.240 to figure out

00:44:09.640 that timeline.

00:44:10.900 Then Reuters

00:44:11.440 preserved the initial document

00:44:13.060 which listed 39 charges

00:44:14.540 against Trump,

00:44:15.160 including the, quote,

00:44:16.020 serious felony

00:44:16.700 of racketeering.

00:44:17.880 All of the other 38 charges,

00:44:19.580 solicitation and the violation

00:44:20.700 of an oath,

00:44:21.440 false statement,

00:44:22.040 and conspiracy charges

00:44:22.980 are all felonies.

00:44:24.500 And then Reuters said

00:44:25.720 the Fulton County

00:44:26.340 Georgia Court's website

00:44:27.740 posted the document

00:44:29.260 Monday listing

00:44:30.100 several criminal charges

00:44:31.060 against the former president,

00:44:32.160 and then the Fulton County

00:44:33.600 District Attorney's Office

00:44:34.460 said in an official statement,

00:44:36.360 Senator,

00:44:37.140 that no charges

00:44:38.020 had been filed

00:44:38.760 against Donald Trump.

00:44:40.260 The document was dated

00:44:41.540 August the 14th

00:44:42.660 and named Trump

00:44:43.320 citing the cases open.

00:44:45.200 There was all the information

00:44:46.380 of who it was going

00:44:46.920 to be assigned to.

00:44:47.820 It was all there.

00:44:49.260 And then they said

00:44:50.340 it's a fictitious document.

00:44:52.960 Then the real document

00:44:54.160 comes out.

00:44:54.860 It's almost a match

00:44:56.160 side by side.

00:44:58.000 So was this

00:44:59.000 a due process violation

00:45:00.380 and does this

00:45:01.640 do anything

00:45:02.640 to undo

00:45:03.680 part of this attack

00:45:05.460 on Donald Trump?

00:45:06.360 Could that turn

00:45:07.180 into a big legal victory

00:45:08.220 for him or probably not?

00:45:10.760 You know,

00:45:11.160 I have to say

00:45:11.960 I'm underwhelmed

00:45:13.380 by that particular issue.

00:45:15.060 Listen,

00:45:15.360 that was clearly

00:45:16.180 a screw-up.

00:45:17.340 It was a screw-up

00:45:18.600 by probably

00:45:20.540 some clerk,

00:45:22.320 maybe a junior lawyer

00:45:23.980 who handed the document

00:45:25.360 before it was complete,

00:45:26.880 before it had been

00:45:27.680 fully voted out.

00:45:29.040 Maybe they told

00:45:31.060 the clerk,

00:45:31.780 okay,

00:45:32.180 this is an early version.

00:45:33.880 I don't know,

00:45:35.860 but it was clearly

00:45:36.800 a screw-up.

00:45:38.860 As screw-ups go,

00:45:40.560 this one doesn't get

00:45:41.500 my blood pressure

00:45:42.780 very high.

00:45:44.920 You know,

00:45:45.220 I'm reminded

00:45:45.760 a former boss

00:45:46.640 of mine used to say,

00:45:48.320 never blame on malice

00:45:49.800 what can be explained

00:45:51.400 by incompetence.

00:45:52.900 I think somebody

00:45:53.840 screwed up.

00:45:54.540 Oh, wait, 0.94

00:45:54.920 I'm not supposed

00:45:55.880 to put this up?

00:45:56.620 Oh, what?

00:45:56.860 I think that's what happened.

00:45:58.660 And they realized, 0.99

00:45:59.480 oh, crap, 0.90

00:46:00.300 we made this public 0.98

00:46:01.820 before it's public,

00:46:03.140 before it's finalized,

00:46:04.060 so they pulled it down.

00:46:05.660 And, you know,

00:46:06.420 lots of people

00:46:07.060 are focusing

00:46:08.080 on the word fictitious.

00:46:09.500 It clearly

00:46:09.980 was not fictitious.

00:46:12.020 My suspicion is

00:46:13.420 that was a poorly

00:46:14.280 chosen word,

00:46:15.960 that what the person

00:46:17.900 who said it

00:46:18.620 was trying to do

00:46:20.120 was pick

00:46:20.720 a big tenpenny word

00:46:22.580 to say

00:46:23.180 this was a

00:46:24.640 not valid document,

00:46:25.940 this was a screw-up,

00:46:27.200 this was a mistake,

00:46:28.420 this is not

00:46:29.180 a real indictment,

00:46:30.100 all of which

00:46:30.660 is accurate.

00:46:31.480 If it hadn't been

00:46:32.120 voted out

00:46:32.500 by the grand jury,

00:46:33.400 it's not a real indictment.

00:46:34.780 Somebody screwed up

00:46:35.560 and put an early version up.

00:46:37.260 But it was not,

00:46:39.560 in fact,

00:46:40.140 fictitious

00:46:40.860 as in made-up fiction.

00:46:43.200 It was rather

00:46:44.340 just not

00:46:45.740 official

00:46:47.140 or legitimate.

00:46:49.140 So,

00:46:50.020 was it a

00:46:51.820 due process

00:46:52.600 violation?

00:46:53.340 I doubt it.

00:46:54.960 In terms of

00:46:55.840 the things

00:46:56.500 that are

00:46:57.200 abuses of law

00:46:59.660 in this indictment,

00:47:03.560 if you were to

00:47:04.240 make a list

00:47:04.920 of the top

00:47:05.480 thousand,

00:47:06.880 there are at least

00:47:07.580 a thousand

00:47:08.200 that are ahead

00:47:08.940 of this particular issue.

00:47:10.560 And one more,

00:47:11.560 maybe that jury

00:47:12.280 foreperson,

00:47:13.140 and I want to get

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00:48:25.700 Lastly,

00:48:26.180 Senator,

00:48:26.600 the foreperson

00:48:27.500 of the Georgia

00:48:27.980 grand jury

00:48:28.540 earlier,

00:48:29.720 back in February,

00:48:31.520 went on TV

00:48:32.420 and was giggling

00:48:33.820 and talking

00:48:35.140 and really fantasizing

00:48:36.540 about this idea

00:48:37.360 of swearing in

00:48:38.080 Donald Trump.

00:48:38.980 Could any of this

00:48:39.960 hurt their case

00:48:40.680 as well?

00:48:41.320 Emily,

00:48:41.660 thank you for

00:48:42.160 coming on.

00:48:42.980 I do want to say

00:48:43.880 off the top,

00:48:44.580 as you and I

00:48:45.240 just discussed,

00:48:45.960 but for everyone to know,

00:48:46.700 you are somewhat

00:48:47.520 limited in what

00:48:48.200 you can discuss

00:48:49.000 under the judge's

00:48:50.960 orders as of now.

00:48:52.420 But one,

00:48:53.080 we do know,

00:48:53.680 of course,

00:48:53.980 one of the biggest

00:48:54.500 questions remaining

00:48:55.400 for everyone

00:48:56.060 that wasn't in that

00:48:57.340 jury room with you

00:48:58.220 is how many people

00:48:59.340 are in trouble here?

00:49:00.580 What can you tell us

00:49:01.340 about how many people

00:49:02.560 you recommended

00:49:03.220 as a group

00:49:03.940 to face indictments?

00:49:04.960 Well, thank you

00:49:08.340 for having me,

00:49:09.040 first of all.

00:49:09.880 And I'm hesitant

00:49:11.900 to speak to

00:49:13.000 something that the judge

00:49:14.240 made a decision

00:49:15.420 not to share.

00:49:17.200 He,

00:49:18.340 I don't know

00:49:19.040 if everyone's aware

00:49:19.840 of this,

00:49:20.160 but there was a hearing

00:49:21.020 about what parts

00:49:24.220 of the report

00:49:24.660 should and should not

00:49:25.620 be published

00:49:26.360 in its various forms

00:49:27.940 and the list,

00:49:30.220 well,

00:49:30.920 the sections

00:49:31.740 that were removed

00:49:32.440 were consciously

00:49:33.720 chosen to be removed.

00:49:35.640 And I don't want to say

00:49:37.060 I have better judgment

00:49:37.820 than the judge.

00:49:39.240 That's totally understandable.

00:49:40.980 Is it,

00:49:41.460 would you say

00:49:41.960 when it comes to,

00:49:42.960 there are indictments

00:49:44.740 recommended,

00:49:45.360 of course.

00:49:46.000 Is it more than

00:49:47.200 12 people?

00:49:48.860 Is it more than

00:49:49.320 20 people?

00:49:51.800 I think if you look

00:49:52.920 at the page numbers

00:49:53.680 of the report,

00:49:54.460 there's about

00:49:55.000 six pages in the middle

00:49:57.200 that got cut out.

00:49:59.960 Allow for spacing.

00:50:01.920 It's not a short list.

00:50:03.900 Not a short list.

00:50:05.780 More.

00:50:06.440 Not only is she laughing

00:50:07.860 there,

00:50:08.600 she then went on

00:50:09.580 to say this

00:50:10.380 about Donald Trump

00:50:11.760 and her fantasy.

00:50:12.860 Do you personally

00:50:13.600 want to hear

00:50:14.680 from the former president?

00:50:15.180 I wanted to hear

00:50:15.940 from the former president,

00:50:17.160 but honestly,

00:50:17.880 I kind of wanted

00:50:18.580 to subpoena the former president

00:50:19.740 because I got to

00:50:20.600 swear everybody in.

00:50:21.860 And so I thought

00:50:22.620 it'd be really cool

00:50:23.260 to get 60 seconds

00:50:24.240 with President Trump

00:50:25.140 of me looking at him

00:50:26.900 and being like,

00:50:27.460 do you solemnly swear?

00:50:28.800 And me getting

00:50:29.180 to swear him in,

00:50:29.780 and I just,

00:50:30.760 I kind of just thought

00:50:31.560 that would be

00:50:31.880 an awesome moment.

00:50:33.020 I mean,

00:50:33.320 Senator,

00:50:33.700 she's literally

00:50:35.180 fantasizing

00:50:36.160 about this

00:50:37.280 quote,

00:50:37.660 awesome moment

00:50:38.620 to personally

00:50:39.360 subpoena Donald Trump

00:50:40.660 and then she's

00:50:41.700 talking about

00:50:42.580 how giddy she is

00:50:43.380 and giggling

00:50:43.880 at the idea

00:50:44.460 that,

00:50:44.900 hey,

00:50:45.100 we didn't just

00:50:45.800 indict one person.

00:50:46.780 We've got a really

00:50:47.500 long list,

00:50:48.180 double spacing,

00:50:48.980 multiple pages

00:50:49.740 and then laughs.

00:50:51.500 Yeah,

00:50:52.000 I got to say,

00:50:52.740 I've never seen

00:50:53.480 anything like that.

00:50:54.360 I've never seen

00:50:55.520 a member of a grand jury

00:50:57.240 do a media tour

00:50:58.240 or even do interviews

00:50:59.460 before indictments

00:51:01.120 are handed down.

00:51:02.520 What occurs

00:51:03.760 before a grand jury

00:51:04.920 is secret by design

00:51:09.680 and that's just bizarre.

00:51:12.960 She,

00:51:13.180 I don't know

00:51:14.220 what Georgia law is.

00:51:16.640 I think there's

00:51:17.860 some real possibility

00:51:19.020 that she has violated

00:51:20.380 Georgia law

00:51:21.080 by doing that

00:51:22.000 and could face

00:51:23.720 real penalties for that.

00:51:25.520 it's bizarre.

00:51:29.120 She certainly

00:51:30.260 did real damage

00:51:31.320 to the prosecutor's case.

00:51:33.300 I am sure

00:51:34.240 we will see

00:51:35.140 litigation

00:51:35.900 motions

00:51:38.140 focusing on

00:51:39.360 how this was

00:51:40.380 a partisan

00:51:41.440 witch hunt

00:51:42.280 and,

00:51:43.140 you know,

00:51:43.260 there's an irony

00:51:43.880 to the phrase

00:51:44.700 partisan witch hunt

00:51:45.800 because when she went

00:51:46.680 on her media tour

00:51:47.560 and outed herself,

00:51:49.500 you know,

00:51:49.720 she decided

00:51:50.340 she wanted the world

00:51:51.320 to know

00:51:51.680 that she was

00:51:52.260 the foreperson

00:51:52.900 of this grand jury,

00:51:53.800 people naturally

00:51:55.820 looked and said,

00:51:56.540 well,

00:51:56.660 who is this person?

00:51:57.740 And her Pinterest

00:51:59.200 included

00:52:00.800 pins on topics

00:52:02.560 that included

00:52:03.300 astrology

00:52:03.980 and crystals

00:52:04.620 and potions

00:52:05.460 and spell castings

00:52:07.140 and symbols

00:52:07.900 and tarot card reading

00:52:09.260 and more than a few

00:52:10.900 people

00:52:11.440 observed with some

00:52:14.720 irony

00:52:15.280 that the foreperson

00:52:16.760 of a grand jury

00:52:17.680 leading a witch hunt

00:52:19.120 appears to have

00:52:19.960 some significant

00:52:22.220 involvement

00:52:22.840 and genuine

00:52:23.440 interest in witchcraft.

00:52:25.760 Yeah.

00:52:26.860 There you go.

00:52:27.600 Welcome to why people

00:52:28.500 are so angry

00:52:29.120 in America right now

00:52:30.080 and if there's anything

00:52:31.060 I can say,

00:52:31.760 I'm with you,

00:52:32.680 America,

00:52:33.000 on this one.

00:52:34.100 I'm sick and tired

00:52:34.900 of it.

00:52:35.200 I think it's very clear,

00:52:36.420 Senator,

00:52:36.660 you're sick and tired

00:52:37.340 of it as well.

00:52:37.880 The figuring out part

00:52:38.880 is how do we fight

00:52:39.680 back illegally

00:52:40.680 and start to defend

00:52:42.520 ourselves from the left

00:52:44.360 that has gone

00:52:45.020 completely rogue.

00:52:47.020 Don't forget

00:52:47.520 this podcast

00:52:48.140 comes out

00:52:48.900 Monday,

00:52:49.380 Wednesday,

00:52:49.780 and Friday.

00:52:50.920 Hit that follow button

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Verdict with Ted Cruz - August 16, 2023

Trump Indictment #4...Everything You Need to Know about the Latest Weaponization of Politics

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