Verdict with Ted Cruz - Trump Indictment - What Are Trump's Options Legally, To Fight Back!

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.

00:00:05.380 Senator, nice to see you.

00:00:07.000 This is going to be a really interesting show

00:00:09.520 because you put out a tweet asking people

00:00:11.880 for questions that they may have

00:00:13.500 about what is going to happen with Donald Trump.

00:00:16.740 We're going to go through a lot of those questions

00:00:19.060 for the show, but let's start with kind of laying

00:00:22.760 what this week's going to look like.

00:00:24.680 What is going to happen this week with Donald Trump

00:00:27.800 and this arraignment were being told tentatively

00:00:30.340 it would be on Tuesday.

00:00:31.780 Obviously that could change, but we're being told

00:00:34.040 that's what they're working with the Secret Service right now.

00:00:36.860 Right, so what we know is the New York grand jury

00:00:39.480 has returned an indictment

00:00:40.860 and that it has 34 counts to the indictment.

00:00:43.840 As we sit here today, we don't know the specific counts.

00:00:46.620 That's still under seal.

00:00:47.680 I assume that's going to be made public at some point,

00:00:50.260 but we haven't seen what specifically the 34 counts are.

00:00:54.440 We also know from public news reporting

00:00:57.000 that Trump is expected to be arraigned

00:00:59.160 on Tuesday at 2.15 p.m. Eastern Standard Time.

00:01:03.520 So assuming that's correct,

00:01:04.920 we will see concurrent with the arraignment,

00:01:09.540 we will see Trump come in,

00:01:10.940 we will see him surrender himself

00:01:13.100 to the authorities in New York.

00:01:16.320 From the public reporting,

00:01:18.020 they're saying there's not going to be a perp walk,

00:01:20.400 that Trump is not going to be in handcuffs.

00:01:22.520 We've also seen public reporting

00:01:23.960 that Secret Service has informed New York

00:01:26.360 they will not allow them to handcuff Donald Trump.

00:01:29.680 So he will come in, presumably of his own volition,

00:01:32.540 without handcuffs.

00:01:33.840 When he comes in, he'll be booked,

00:01:36.280 he'll be fingerprinted,

00:01:37.340 there will be a mugshot.

00:01:40.020 Interestingly enough, based on some of the reporting,

00:01:43.140 the New York authorities are suggesting

00:01:45.360 the mugshot may not be available to the public,

00:01:47.980 whereas Trump is saying he wants the mugshot

00:01:51.060 to be available to the public.

00:01:53.060 We know that Trump's presidential campaign

00:01:56.360 has raised millions of dollars

00:01:57.980 within the first 24 hours of the indictment.

00:02:01.220 I think the Trump campaign thinks

00:02:02.840 that that mugshot is probably worth millions more dollars

00:02:05.620 in campaign fundraising.

00:02:07.400 We've talked about how this indictment

00:02:09.780 is likely to boomerang and backlash

00:02:13.040 and that it already is.

00:02:14.620 But all of that will play out on Tuesday.

00:02:18.140 We will, I believe, see the mugshot.

00:02:21.120 And as I predicted on this podcast already,

00:02:23.880 I think you'll see Trump

00:02:25.300 in a beautiful dark blue suit,

00:02:28.840 a crisp white shirt,

00:02:30.260 and a red shiny Donald J. Trump tie

00:02:32.940 smiling ear to ear in the mugshot.

00:02:35.800 How abnormal is it to not release a mugshot of somebody?

00:02:38.880 Because the fact that they're playing this much politics,

00:02:41.940 and I think this does go to politics.

00:02:43.220 If you're not going to go over procedure,

00:02:45.340 then you're playing politics.

00:02:46.700 You want to arrest the guy,

00:02:48.780 but you don't want people to see the mugshot.

00:02:51.000 That screams dripping of political motivations.

00:02:54.760 It'll be released.

00:02:56.120 That will be the end outcome.

00:02:58.660 He will come in.

00:03:00.060 He will plead not guilty.

00:03:01.860 He will be released,

00:03:03.060 presumably on some form of bail.

00:03:06.160 Given that New York,

00:03:07.580 they believe in cashless bail.

00:03:09.840 They'll release murderers.

00:03:11.340 I don't know.

00:03:11.940 Maybe they'll say,

00:03:12.560 no, we won't release Donald Trump.

00:03:13.720 No, they will release him,

00:03:15.640 and then they'll move forward towards the trial.

00:03:17.500 So how does the bail process work,

00:03:19.080 and how much time from when he gets out of that car,

00:03:22.300 walks in there with his attorneys,

00:03:24.060 secret service will be around,

00:03:25.200 they say, the entire time.

00:03:26.500 There was reporting that everybody in that court day,

00:03:29.680 basically Tuesday's going to be shut down around that time.

00:03:32.180 It'll be empty.

00:03:32.880 It'll be just for this situation with Donald Trump.

00:03:35.760 So how do you post bail?

00:03:37.260 How fast does that happen?

00:03:38.500 Does that come from a bank account before he even gets there?

00:03:40.520 How does that work?

00:03:41.140 Look, they're not going to drag it out.

00:03:43.360 It's not going to be long and extended,

00:03:45.260 in part because the New York City officials,

00:03:47.980 they're concerned about protests.

00:03:49.260 They're concerned about violence.

00:03:50.480 They're setting up barricades.

00:03:52.200 So they're not going to want it.

00:03:53.860 In an ordinary case,

00:03:54.940 someone could be there for hours and hours and hours.

00:03:57.600 I mean, it's not typically a smooth, efficient process.

00:04:02.140 In this case, I expect it will be relatively quick

00:04:04.800 that he will go in, he will take the mugshot,

00:04:07.000 they'll take his fingerprints,

00:04:07.920 and he'll go and appear before a judge.

00:04:10.580 And bail will be set.

00:04:12.020 Typically, they'll turn to the prosecution

00:04:13.320 and ask what's the prosecution seeking.

00:04:15.300 And the prosecution will suggest a bail amount.

00:04:18.860 It wouldn't surprise me if they release him

00:04:21.280 on his own recognizance.

00:04:23.040 It's not like they're...

00:04:24.200 Worried about, yeah.

00:04:25.940 It's not like he is a flight risk.

00:04:29.640 So, and it will be the judge ultimately

00:04:32.100 who decides what the standard is for bail

00:04:34.500 within the parameters of New York law.

00:04:36.260 Will he be in a courtroom with a judge

00:04:38.940 or will this be done by video?

00:04:40.640 We saw a lot of that in COVID

00:04:41.920 where there was technology used, right?

00:04:43.980 Where you would go before a judge,

00:04:45.420 basically, you know, through a video camera.

00:04:47.300 When he walks in there,

00:04:48.300 will they take him into an actual courtroom

00:04:50.300 or how does that work?

00:04:51.220 Well, let me be clear.

00:04:52.020 I've never practiced law in a New York state courtroom

00:04:55.420 or certainly a New York criminal courtroom.

00:04:57.580 So I don't have first experience

00:04:59.300 with how Manhattan handles it.

00:05:00.760 But I would absolutely expect

00:05:02.660 that we will see this in a courtroom

00:05:04.140 in front of a live judge

00:05:05.380 with a real court reporter and bailiff and the rest.

00:05:08.700 All right.

00:05:09.020 So let's ask,

00:05:10.340 and this is my first question I want to ask you.

00:05:13.800 And crazy things have happened

00:05:15.140 in and around Donald Trump.

00:05:17.160 What if Donald Trump decides,

00:05:19.680 I don't want to go to New York.

00:05:21.420 I don't want to deal with this.

00:05:22.860 I don't want to show up for this.

00:05:25.100 What would happen then?

00:05:26.420 So that's actually an interesting legal question

00:05:29.040 and it implicates a lot of different legal factors.

00:05:33.820 The Constitution speaks to it.

00:05:36.160 So the Constitution,

00:05:37.420 there is a clause in the Constitution

00:05:38.800 called the Extradition Clause.

00:05:41.020 The Extradition Clause provides,

00:05:42.740 quote,

00:05:43.600 a person charged in any state

00:05:45.060 with treason, felony or other crime

00:05:46.980 who shall flee from justice

00:05:48.920 and be found in another state

00:05:50.940 shall on demand of the executive authority

00:05:53.800 of the state from which he fled

00:05:55.040 be delivered up to be removed to the state

00:05:58.200 having jurisdiction of the crime.

00:06:00.440 Now, if you look at the Constitutional Convention,

00:06:03.160 which is where the Constitution was drafted,

00:06:05.960 and if you looked at the notes,

00:06:08.020 for example, on August 28th, 1787,

00:06:11.520 James Madison notes that

00:06:13.680 during the constitutional editing process

00:06:15.940 of Article 4,

00:06:17.380 which is where the Extradition Clause is found,

00:06:20.340 that the words high misdemeanor

00:06:23.040 were struck out

00:06:24.020 and instead the words other crime

00:06:26.080 were inserted,

00:06:27.600 which comprehended, quote,

00:06:30.220 all proper cases.

00:06:31.760 In other words,

00:06:32.400 they didn't want

00:06:33.560 the state where a person was to be found

00:06:36.920 making a determination

00:06:37.880 as to the nature of the crime

00:06:40.700 in the state seeking extradition.

00:06:42.900 Now, that's in the Constitution.

00:06:45.480 There's a federal statute

00:06:46.440 called the Federal Extradition Act,

00:06:48.840 and that's 18 U.S.C. section 3182.

00:06:52.460 It follows very closely

00:06:54.700 to the Constitution's extradition clause.

00:06:56.960 It says,

00:06:57.860 whenever an executive authority

00:06:59.060 of any state or territory

00:07:00.180 demands any person

00:07:01.360 as a fugitive from justice,

00:07:03.220 and it goes on to say,

00:07:05.100 the executive authority

00:07:05.960 of the state

00:07:06.560 to which the person has fled

00:07:08.000 shall cause him

00:07:09.800 to be arrested and secured

00:07:11.120 and notify the executive authority

00:07:13.560 making such a demand

00:07:14.640 or the agency of such authority

00:07:16.140 appointed to receive the fugitive

00:07:17.940 and shall cause the fugitive

00:07:19.940 to be delivered.

00:07:21.200 And so,

00:07:22.200 under the terms

00:07:22.980 of the federal statute,

00:07:24.000 it's a mandatory obligation.

00:07:26.020 There's also a law

00:07:27.660 called the Uniform Criminal Extradition Act,

00:07:30.740 which is a uniform criminal law

00:07:32.680 that 48 states have adopted,

00:07:35.280 including Florida.

00:07:36.120 So there's a Florida state law

00:07:37.340 that puts the obligation

00:07:39.800 on the governor,

00:07:42.220 quote,

00:07:42.640 to have arrested and delivered

00:07:43.980 up to the executive

00:07:44.900 of any other state

00:07:45.740 of the United States,

00:07:46.640 any person charged

00:07:47.700 in that state

00:07:48.800 with treason, felony,

00:07:49.860 or another crime.

00:07:51.360 Now,

00:07:52.360 it's more than a little interesting

00:07:54.160 given that the executive

00:07:55.400 of the state

00:07:55.940 where Donald Trump is found

00:07:57.160 is Ron DeSantis.

00:07:58.740 Ron DeSantis.

00:07:59.140 And he said,

00:08:00.120 and it made it very clear

00:08:01.520 in his statement,

00:08:02.620 he would not work

00:08:03.660 with New York City.

00:08:04.580 Yeah.

00:08:05.140 So Ron DeSantis tweeted out

00:08:06.980 the following,

00:08:07.600 quote,

00:08:08.460 the weaponization

00:08:09.180 of the legal system

00:08:10.040 to advance a political agenda

00:08:11.680 turns the rule of law

00:08:13.040 on its head.

00:08:13.580 It is un-American.

00:08:15.760 The Soros-backed

00:08:16.720 Manhattan district attorney

00:08:17.820 has consistently bent the law

00:08:19.400 to downgrade felonies

00:08:21.060 and to excuse criminal misconduct.

00:08:23.880 Yet now he is stretching the law

00:08:25.880 to target a political opponent.

00:08:28.280 Florida will not assist

00:08:29.960 in an extradition request

00:08:31.420 given the questionable circumstances

00:08:33.700 at issue

00:08:34.300 with this Soros-backed

00:08:36.080 Manhattan prosecutor

00:08:37.240 and his political agenda.

00:08:38.320 So DeSantis

00:08:39.820 is suggesting

00:08:41.480 that he would fight

00:08:42.560 extradition of Donald Trump.

00:08:45.180 Now, at the end of the day,

00:08:47.300 if Trump refused to show up

00:08:50.180 and DeSantis fought,

00:08:54.080 I think it is likely

00:08:55.840 that you would end up

00:08:57.780 seeing Trump extradited.

00:09:00.020 New York would likely seek

00:09:01.880 a mandamus

00:09:02.680 in federal district court

00:09:03.760 in Florida

00:09:04.240 to order that Trump

00:09:06.040 be extradited.

00:09:07.000 Presumably Florida

00:09:07.700 would fight that.

00:09:09.280 But I think given

00:09:10.660 the Constitution,

00:09:12.500 given the federal statute,

00:09:13.560 given the Florida statute,

00:09:15.460 it is likely

00:09:16.380 that the courts

00:09:17.300 would say that,

00:09:19.080 well, for example,

00:09:20.120 here's what the Supreme Court said

00:09:21.540 in a case

00:09:22.960 that was called

00:09:23.680 New Mexico v. Reed.

00:09:25.600 The Supreme Court said,

00:09:26.520 what actually happened

00:09:28.920 in the demanding state,

00:09:30.520 the law of the demanding state,

00:09:32.900 and what may be expected

00:09:34.500 to happen

00:09:34.960 in the demanding state,

00:09:36.160 that's New York,

00:09:37.720 when the fugitive returns

00:09:39.280 are not issues

00:09:40.640 that must be tried,

00:09:43.200 or rather,

00:09:44.280 are issues

00:09:45.000 that must be tried

00:09:46.200 in the courts

00:09:46.820 of that state

00:09:48.080 and not in those

00:09:50.000 of the asylum state.

00:09:52.060 So I think,

00:09:52.740 given the state of the law,

00:09:54.360 if Trump tried to fight,

00:09:56.860 if DeSantis fought

00:09:57.740 alongside him,

00:09:58.980 they could delay extradition.

00:10:01.020 Yeah.

00:10:01.440 But I think

00:10:01.980 at the end of the day,

00:10:03.680 it is likely

00:10:04.420 you would see

00:10:04.940 extradition happen.

00:10:06.020 Now,

00:10:06.900 assuming Trump

00:10:07.760 does what he said,

00:10:08.680 which is that

00:10:09.040 he's going to surrender,

00:10:09.780 and I think that's probably

00:10:10.660 the right decision

00:10:11.980 to go and fight it

00:10:12.840 and beat it in court,

00:10:14.680 we won't find it out.

00:10:16.820 But if Trump

00:10:17.840 were to refuse to show up,

00:10:19.660 it would create

00:10:20.720 a brand new legal challenge

00:10:22.720 that would be fascinating

00:10:24.180 and difficult.

00:10:25.380 Something like that,

00:10:26.420 if it did happen

00:10:27.560 and played out that way,

00:10:28.700 is that something

00:10:29.060 that could possibly

00:10:29.700 go all the way

00:10:30.140 to the Supreme Court

00:10:30.760 to get a ruling?

00:10:31.620 It could.

00:10:34.000 Sure, sure.

00:10:35.000 It could,

00:10:35.720 and given the nature

00:10:36.500 of a presidential campaign,

00:10:38.720 it's entirely possible

00:10:40.060 that it would.

00:10:43.680 As I said,

00:10:44.740 I think it's likely

00:10:45.600 not to be teed up

00:10:46.580 because Trump has said

00:10:47.400 he's going to turn himself in.

00:10:50.320 And at the end of the day,

00:10:51.780 I'm not sure

00:10:52.440 it's in Trump's interest

00:10:53.520 or DeSantis' interest

00:10:54.840 to drag this out

00:10:56.340 for six months

00:10:57.280 and then lose

00:10:58.060 and be forced

00:10:58.540 to do the same thing.

00:10:59.580 That,

00:10:59.640 at the end of the day,

00:11:01.700 that calculus,

00:11:02.720 it's going to be Trump

00:11:03.260 that makes the decision.

00:11:04.220 If he doesn't show up,

00:11:05.420 that'll tee this up.

00:11:06.720 But given the state of the law,

00:11:09.380 I assume Trump's lawyers

00:11:10.700 are advising him,

00:11:12.220 you're not likely to win

00:11:14.460 the argument

00:11:16.320 that I get to be a fugitive

00:11:17.600 from justice

00:11:18.260 because I don't like

00:11:19.200 the indictment.

00:11:19.880 You're on much stronger grounds

00:11:21.340 going and fighting

00:11:22.460 the indictment

00:11:23.140 and saying

00:11:23.680 this is a political witch hunt

00:11:26.580 rather than being,

00:11:29.340 in fact,

00:11:29.880 a fugitive from justice.

00:11:31.200 I think that,

00:11:32.240 both legally

00:11:32.940 and politically,

00:11:33.840 is a bad look,

00:11:34.700 which is why

00:11:35.120 I don't expect Trump

00:11:36.000 to do that.

00:11:36.640 It's very interesting

00:11:37.400 to think about it.

00:11:38.200 And when it deals

00:11:38.940 with Donald Trump,

00:11:39.860 you never know

00:11:40.480 exactly what's going to happen.

00:11:41.940 You never know.

00:11:42.600 And I will say,

00:11:43.420 sometimes history

00:11:44.240 has a sense of humor.

00:11:45.780 You know,

00:11:46.080 I'm reminded back

00:11:47.100 in 2000.

00:11:48.880 And as you know,

00:11:51.000 I was a baby lawyer,

00:11:52.260 was part of the

00:11:52.840 George W. Bush campaign,

00:11:54.420 met Heidi on the campaign,

00:11:55.740 and I was part

00:11:57.240 of the legal team

00:11:58.020 in Tallahassee

00:11:58.820 in Bush versus Gore.

00:12:00.500 And the entire presidency

00:12:02.140 came down to those

00:12:03.300 legal proceedings,

00:12:04.180 ultimately 537 votes

00:12:06.020 for George W. Bush

00:12:07.340 over Al Gore.

00:12:09.280 One of the bizarre aspects

00:12:10.860 of it is

00:12:11.600 the governor of the state

00:12:13.320 that the entire presidency

00:12:15.140 hinged upon

00:12:16.100 was Jeb Bush,

00:12:17.780 the brother

00:12:18.240 of one of the two governors.

00:12:19.780 I remember laughing,

00:12:20.580 saying,

00:12:21.040 you know,

00:12:21.340 if you wrote this

00:12:21.960 as a novel,

00:12:23.480 no one would publish it.

00:12:24.700 They'd say,

00:12:24.980 oh, come on,

00:12:25.480 this is stupid.

00:12:26.260 If you submitted

00:12:26.840 a screenplay,

00:12:27.860 they'd laugh at you.

00:12:28.880 No,

00:12:29.440 you don't get to make

00:12:31.000 the governor

00:12:31.960 of the key state

00:12:32.920 the brother

00:12:33.380 of one of the candidates.

00:12:34.460 It's kind of similar here.

00:12:35.460 No,

00:12:35.940 you don't get to make

00:12:37.020 the governor of the state

00:12:38.220 that would decide

00:12:39.280 what to do on extradition

00:12:40.620 the leading Republican rival

00:12:42.520 of the guy

00:12:43.020 presumably being extradited.

00:12:44.420 You can't make it up.

00:12:45.220 You can't make it up.

00:12:46.600 It's amazing.

00:12:47.280 I want to get to

00:12:47.840 some of these questions

00:12:48.480 on Twitter.

00:12:49.020 A lot of really good questions

00:12:50.480 were responded

00:12:51.760 when we said,

00:12:52.280 hey,

00:12:52.500 we'll answer these questions.

00:12:53.900 Before we get to that,

00:12:54.500 I want to tell you

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00:14:03.440 of the day.

00:14:04.360 Senator,

00:14:04.640 I want to get

00:14:05.100 some of these questions

00:14:05.820 because they're really good

00:14:06.780 and this is the first one

00:14:08.680 and I think it's a great one.

00:14:10.700 It says,

00:14:11.180 does Trump have any recourse

00:14:13.240 if after his walk of shame

00:14:15.860 slash mugshot

00:14:16.940 the case fizzles out?

00:14:19.080 It's a great question

00:14:20.120 because like

00:14:20.640 it seems so biased

00:14:21.900 it seems so political

00:14:23.000 it seems so unfair.

00:14:24.220 Does he have any recourse

00:14:25.640 if this thing

00:14:26.080 doesn't work out for Bragg?

00:14:27.560 So his recourses

00:14:28.960 are very limited

00:14:29.660 and they're primarily political.

00:14:32.840 Legally,

00:14:33.560 his principal resource

00:14:34.780 would be under a law

00:14:36.200 called 42 U.S.C.

00:14:37.900 Section 1983.

00:14:39.620 So Section 1983

00:14:40.860 enables,

00:14:42.040 it says,

00:14:42.560 every person

00:14:42.940 who under cover,

00:14:44.540 under color

00:14:45.080 of any statute,

00:14:45.820 ordinance,

00:14:46.220 regulation,

00:14:46.760 customer usage,

00:14:47.820 in other words,

00:14:48.220 under color of state law,

00:14:50.100 causes the deprivation

00:14:52.880 of any rights,

00:14:53.820 privileges,

00:14:54.160 or immunities

00:14:54.700 secured by the Constitution

00:14:56.000 or laws

00:14:56.620 shall be liable

00:14:58.420 to the party injured

00:14:59.260 in an action at law.

00:15:02.300 What Section 1983

00:15:03.820 enables you to do

00:15:05.260 is that if a state

00:15:06.960 or local official

00:15:08.400 violates your

00:15:10.020 constitutional rights,

00:15:11.180 you can sue

00:15:12.120 that state

00:15:13.160 or local official

00:15:13.940 for violating

00:15:14.600 your constitutional rights.

00:15:15.700 Section 1983

00:15:16.440 is the primary vehicle

00:15:18.780 of most civil rights lawsuits.

00:15:21.320 Section 1983

00:15:22.320 is actually part

00:15:23.360 of what was called

00:15:23.940 the Ku Klux Klan's laws.

00:15:25.540 Yeah.

00:15:25.980 Which were passed

00:15:26.980 in the wake

00:15:27.740 of the Civil War

00:15:28.760 and in the wake

00:15:30.820 of the 14th Amendment,

00:15:32.040 Section 1983

00:15:32.840 was one of the

00:15:33.740 enforcement mechanisms

00:15:34.840 of the 14th Amendment.

00:15:36.740 After the Civil War,

00:15:38.340 there were three

00:15:39.020 landmark amendments

00:15:39.920 that were adopted.

00:15:40.780 The 13th Amendment,

00:15:41.740 which ended slavery.

00:15:42.780 The 14th Amendment,

00:15:44.200 which ensures

00:15:45.040 due process of law

00:15:46.280 and equal protection

00:15:47.240 of law

00:15:47.800 and was there

00:15:48.680 designed to protect

00:15:49.880 the rights

00:15:51.120 principally

00:15:52.260 of the slaves

00:15:53.220 who had just been freed,

00:15:54.560 but also of everyone else.

00:15:55.940 It applied across the board

00:15:57.400 and the 15th Amendment

00:15:58.580 guaranteed the right to vote

00:16:00.500 couldn't be denied

00:16:01.580 based on race.

00:16:02.380 And so the three

00:16:03.220 were adopted together

00:16:04.740 following the Civil War.

00:16:06.200 Trump could bring

00:16:06.980 a 1983 lawsuit.

00:16:08.340 There'd be a number

00:16:08.960 of challenges.

00:16:10.540 Number one,

00:16:11.400 if he tried to sue

00:16:12.640 Alvin Bragg personally,

00:16:14.800 he'd be extremely

00:16:15.740 unlikely to succeed.

00:16:17.460 The courts interpret...

00:16:18.840 Seems unfair,

00:16:19.780 by the way.

00:16:20.900 I understand.

00:16:21.900 But the courts interpret

00:16:23.400 prosecutorial immunity

00:16:25.160 very, very broadly.

00:16:26.440 It's been referred to

00:16:27.500 in numerous instances

00:16:28.960 as absolute.

00:16:30.660 And, you know,

00:16:31.540 you can say it seems unfair,

00:16:33.340 but I will give you

00:16:34.040 the flip side of that.

00:16:35.120 Sure.

00:16:35.760 Which is every day

00:16:36.860 people are prosecuted

00:16:37.880 all across the country.

00:16:39.420 And if you could sue the DA

00:16:40.760 for every prosecution

00:16:41.900 they brought,

00:16:43.000 every murderer,

00:16:43.800 every drug dealer,

00:16:44.900 you would face

00:16:45.740 an unlimited number

00:16:46.800 of lawsuits.

00:16:47.840 And you've got to

00:16:48.740 think about it.

00:16:49.420 Ben Ferguson,

00:16:50.700 would you serve as DA

00:16:52.040 if every murderer

00:16:53.640 you prosecuted

00:16:55.220 could sue Ben Ferguson

00:16:56.460 personally

00:16:57.040 and take your house

00:16:58.180 and take your car.

00:16:59.340 You've got a fancy new car

00:17:00.440 parked outside.

00:17:01.660 You don't want a murderer

00:17:02.660 driving away with you.

00:17:03.720 Yeah, yeah.

00:17:04.180 No, I knew you were going

00:17:05.920 to take that shot.

00:17:07.040 Well played.

00:17:07.940 No, but it's true.

00:17:09.040 You would not take that job.

00:17:10.220 You would say,

00:17:10.740 I can't afford this.

00:17:11.720 I can't afford the legal.

00:17:13.120 I can't afford the time it takes.

00:17:14.820 So that does make sense.

00:17:16.100 So there's a reason

00:17:17.240 prosecutors and judges

00:17:18.700 both have been given

00:17:19.920 absolute immunity

00:17:21.380 with very, very few exceptions

00:17:22.880 because of that proposition.

00:17:24.460 Um, what you can do though

00:17:27.640 is you can sue the office.

00:17:29.580 So you could sue

00:17:30.580 the district attorney

00:17:31.480 in the official capacity,

00:17:33.060 not your personal capacity,

00:17:34.380 which means a judgment

00:17:35.360 would not be paid

00:17:36.880 out of district attorney

00:17:37.740 Ben Ferguson's

00:17:38.520 personal bank account,

00:17:39.600 but rather out of the

00:17:41.160 the district attorney

00:17:43.120 for Manhattan.

00:17:44.480 The challenges of suing

00:17:46.360 the office though

00:17:47.140 are quite significant.

00:17:48.080 And I actually litigated a case

00:17:50.360 where we were dealing

00:17:51.460 with exactly this.

00:17:52.540 It's a case called

00:17:53.200 Connick versus Thompson.

00:17:54.860 And it dealt with

00:17:55.840 an individual named

00:17:56.620 John Thompson

00:17:57.320 who was prosecuted

00:17:58.920 for murder in New Orleans.

00:18:01.160 And he was convicted

00:18:02.200 of capital murder

00:18:02.960 and he was sent to death row.

00:18:04.540 And it was a wrongful conviction.

00:18:06.540 Uh, John Thompson

00:18:07.280 was innocent of the murder.

00:18:09.180 And the district attorney's

00:18:10.720 office in New Orleans,

00:18:11.780 they had blood evidence

00:18:12.820 that could have exonerated him.

00:18:14.740 And they never gave

00:18:15.980 that blood evidence

00:18:16.840 to John Thompson.

00:18:18.360 Um, there's a Supreme Court

00:18:19.740 decision called Brady,

00:18:20.940 which, which requires

00:18:21.880 that prosecutors

00:18:22.740 have to give the defendants

00:18:24.860 any exculpatory evidence,

00:18:26.400 any evidence they have

00:18:27.460 that could prove

00:18:28.260 they're innocent.

00:18:29.000 They have to hand it over.

00:18:30.480 And the DA's office

00:18:31.480 didn't want to do it,

00:18:32.540 didn't do it.

00:18:33.300 And so they convicted him.

00:18:34.360 They sent John Thompson

00:18:35.240 to death row.

00:18:36.260 And ultimately, his lawyers

00:18:38.480 actually through like

00:18:39.560 pricking his fingers,

00:18:40.740 they took a DNA test,

00:18:42.000 they got access

00:18:42.620 to the blood evidence,

00:18:43.920 and they proved

00:18:44.540 he was innocent.

00:18:45.820 And so John Thompson

00:18:46.820 was released from death row,

00:18:49.660 but he'd spent 14 years

00:18:51.320 on death row

00:18:52.800 for a crime he didn't commit.

00:18:54.940 Well, after he was released,

00:18:56.480 I wasn't part

00:18:57.160 of the criminal trial.

00:18:58.060 I got involved

00:18:58.640 after he was released.

00:19:00.180 He filed a lawsuit

00:19:01.120 against the district attorney

00:19:02.620 in New Orleans.

00:19:04.600 And he won.

00:19:05.160 He won $14 million.

00:19:07.120 A million dollars

00:19:08.200 for every year

00:19:08.860 of the 14 years

00:19:09.780 he was wrongfully incarcerated.

00:19:11.900 That case went up

00:19:13.020 to the Supreme Court,

00:19:14.040 and I was in private practice

00:19:15.160 at the time.

00:19:15.760 I was at a firm called

00:19:16.620 Morgan Lewis,

00:19:17.640 one of the biggest law firms

00:19:18.540 in the country.

00:19:19.280 And I was leading

00:19:20.040 their Supreme Court practice

00:19:21.380 and their national appellate practice.

00:19:23.800 And two of my law partners

00:19:25.160 had been representing

00:19:25.960 John Thompson for years,

00:19:28.140 pro bono,

00:19:28.660 doing it for free.

00:19:29.400 And so they brought me in

00:19:30.640 to assist on the Supreme Court case.

00:19:32.920 And I spent a lot of time

00:19:34.260 working with my partners

00:19:35.920 on the Supreme Court case.

00:19:37.100 We went to the court.

00:19:37.900 I was at the argument

00:19:38.760 seating at council chamber.

00:19:41.000 My partner argued the case.

00:19:44.080 Unfortunately, we lost 5-4.

00:19:46.200 Wow.

00:19:46.820 And 5-4,

00:19:47.820 the Supreme Court

00:19:48.480 threw out the judgment

00:19:50.760 because they said

00:19:52.100 there was not a pattern

00:19:54.000 in practice

00:19:54.600 that was so pervasive

00:19:56.120 in the office

00:19:57.860 of refusing to hand over

00:19:59.680 Brady materials

00:20:00.600 that they were not

00:20:01.580 going to hold

00:20:02.040 the office liable.

00:20:03.780 All of which is to say

00:20:05.240 Trump could presumably sue.

00:20:07.680 But the chances

00:20:08.580 of succeeding

00:20:09.520 in a civil lawsuit

00:20:10.620 afterwards

00:20:11.240 are very slim.

00:20:13.300 There would be serious

00:20:14.540 legal impediments

00:20:15.820 to winning.

00:20:16.640 Interesting.

00:20:17.240 Especially if you are

00:20:18.300 on death row

00:20:18.980 for 14 years,

00:20:19.680 you can't win that one.

00:20:20.720 Yeah.

00:20:20.900 This is obviously

00:20:21.760 seems a much lower level

00:20:22.940 of chance of success.

00:20:24.300 Let's go to another question.

00:20:25.660 And again,

00:20:26.260 everybody's in these

00:20:27.000 and you guys

00:20:27.400 were amazing with this.

00:20:28.300 Another one is,

00:20:29.620 are the charges

00:20:30.420 that Trump was indicted

00:20:31.360 for politically based

00:20:32.840 or based on actual evidence?

00:20:35.700 Does the indictment

00:20:36.600 warrant further investigation?

00:20:39.240 And what legal options

00:20:41.040 does Trump have

00:20:41.900 for responding

00:20:42.700 to the indictment?

00:20:44.360 Well, look,

00:20:45.560 the indictment,

00:20:46.520 I believe,

00:20:47.080 is wholly political.

00:20:48.640 I think it is baseless.

00:20:51.820 We don't know

00:20:53.420 the exact terms,

00:20:56.040 but what we do know

00:20:57.180 is we know

00:21:00.080 what we think

00:21:02.180 the case is based on.

00:21:03.720 Right.

00:21:04.080 And we think the case

00:21:05.080 is based on

00:21:05.780 a specific New York law.

00:21:07.380 It's New York Penal Law

00:21:08.620 175.05.

00:21:10.980 Now, that's a law

00:21:11.960 that makes it

00:21:12.480 a misdemeanor

00:21:13.260 to essentially create

00:21:15.000 a false business record.

00:21:16.260 It defines it

00:21:16.820 a little more legalese,

00:21:17.900 but it's creating

00:21:18.400 a false business record.

00:21:20.020 Now,

00:21:20.900 there's an obvious

00:21:21.600 problem with this,

00:21:22.500 which is a misdemeanor.

00:21:23.620 The misdemeanor

00:21:24.320 under New York law

00:21:25.140 has a two-year

00:21:26.920 statute of limitations.

00:21:28.620 The conduct here

00:21:30.000 occurred in 2016,

00:21:31.160 and the conduct,

00:21:32.440 as we understand it,

00:21:33.440 that this is all based on,

00:21:35.420 is an alleged payment

00:21:36.880 of $130,000

00:21:38.160 made by Michael Cohen,

00:21:39.900 then Donald Trump's

00:21:40.800 personal attorney,

00:21:42.140 to Stormy Daniels,

00:21:43.280 the porn star

00:21:43.960 who alleges

00:21:44.560 she had an affair

00:21:45.400 with Donald Trump

00:21:46.900 and that the money

00:21:47.800 was hush money

00:21:48.520 for her to keep quiet.

00:21:49.520 And this is

00:21:49.940 in the middle

00:21:50.800 of the presidential campaign.

00:21:52.120 Trump is running

00:21:52.700 against Hillary.

00:21:53.440 It obviously

00:21:54.660 would have been

00:21:55.240 not good politically

00:21:56.420 for a scandal

00:21:57.700 to break right

00:21:58.320 in the middle of this

00:21:59.060 of an affair

00:21:59.540 with a porn star.

00:22:02.600 It's not illegal

00:22:03.460 under New York law

00:22:04.300 to have an affair

00:22:04.960 with a porn star.

00:22:05.940 It's not even illegal

00:22:06.920 under New York law

00:22:07.780 to pay hush money

00:22:08.520 to a porn star.

00:22:09.220 All of that,

00:22:10.740 you can decide

00:22:11.300 what you like

00:22:11.880 about the underlying

00:22:12.680 alleged conduct,

00:22:13.740 but it's not illegal

00:22:14.600 in New York.

00:22:15.980 What is allegedly illegal

00:22:18.000 is that when Michael Cohen

00:22:20.040 delivered $130,000

00:22:21.540 to Stormy Daniels,

00:22:23.140 it was recorded

00:22:24.160 on the records

00:22:24.900 for Trump

00:22:25.540 as legal fees

00:22:26.960 when it was not

00:22:28.560 in fact legal fees.

00:22:29.600 It was hush money

00:22:30.180 payments to the porn star.

00:22:32.060 Now,

00:22:32.880 I said this was

00:22:34.160 a misdemeanor,

00:22:34.800 so how is Alvin Bragg

00:22:36.280 bringing it?

00:22:36.820 It's beyond two years.

00:22:38.920 Well,

00:22:39.220 there's a second statute.

00:22:40.360 It's New York Penal Law

00:22:41.360 175.10

00:22:42.840 that makes it

00:22:44.400 a felony

00:22:44.880 with a longer

00:22:45.520 statute of limitations

00:22:46.740 if the false

00:22:48.600 business record

00:22:49.480 was created

00:22:51.440 in order to aid

00:22:52.820 in the commission

00:22:53.420 of another crime.

00:22:54.660 So to get it

00:22:55.560 from misdemeanor

00:22:56.400 to felony,

00:22:56.980 to get the statute

00:22:57.640 of limitations

00:22:58.200 longer,

00:22:59.240 Alvin Bragg

00:22:59.820 has to somehow

00:23:00.520 bootstrap

00:23:01.240 that this allegedly

00:23:02.620 false business record

00:23:03.740 was done

00:23:04.800 to facilitate

00:23:05.420 another crime.

00:23:06.380 We don't know

00:23:07.560 what other crime

00:23:08.560 he's going to claim.

00:23:11.120 Presumably,

00:23:12.200 the most likely

00:23:13.100 other crime

00:23:13.800 is some sort

00:23:14.380 of federal campaign

00:23:15.320 finance violation

00:23:16.400 that it was

00:23:17.880 hiding what

00:23:19.080 the money

00:23:19.660 was being spent for.

00:23:20.700 We don't know

00:23:21.180 exactly.

00:23:22.460 We do know

00:23:23.340 that the Department

00:23:24.680 of Justice

00:23:25.220 of the Southern

00:23:25.960 District of New York

00:23:26.840 investigated

00:23:28.200 a federal campaign

00:23:29.080 finance violation

00:23:29.900 on this

00:23:30.520 and decided

00:23:30.940 not to prosecute.

00:23:32.080 We also know

00:23:33.160 that the Federal

00:23:33.700 Elections Commissions

00:23:34.680 investigated

00:23:35.540 the conduct

00:23:36.140 underlying this

00:23:36.840 to see if there

00:23:37.360 was a violation

00:23:38.020 and decided

00:23:39.020 not to prosecute.

00:23:40.040 So at this point,

00:23:41.920 Alvin Bragg

00:23:42.720 is presumably

00:23:43.540 taking a federal

00:23:45.140 crime that no

00:23:45.860 federal official

00:23:46.500 thinks is sufficient

00:23:47.420 to prosecute

00:23:48.260 and using that

00:23:50.360 to try to bootstrap

00:23:52.120 a state crime

00:23:52.980 into a felony

00:23:53.820 to go after

00:23:54.440 Donald Trump.

00:23:55.360 I think the entire

00:23:56.540 thing is crap.

00:23:59.800 And one of the

00:24:00.820 most important points

00:24:01.840 and it's one I've

00:24:02.460 made a couple of

00:24:03.360 times on this

00:24:03.860 podcast,

00:24:04.940 if this is a crime,

00:24:07.260 if this is a felony

00:24:08.820 that someone should

00:24:09.580 go to jail for,

00:24:11.480 then Hillary Clinton

00:24:12.640 committed the exact

00:24:13.760 same crime.

00:24:15.140 Because at the

00:24:15.920 exact same time,

00:24:17.100 Hillary Clinton's

00:24:17.760 campaign paid

00:24:18.460 over a million

00:24:19.100 dollars.

00:24:19.560 You're not exaggerating

00:24:20.160 to say exact same

00:24:20.760 time.

00:24:21.200 2016 presidential

00:24:22.560 campaign,

00:24:23.440 her campaign was

00:24:24.700 making the Steele

00:24:25.560 dossier,

00:24:26.380 the Democrat

00:24:27.080 National Committee

00:24:27.680 was helping pay

00:24:28.440 for this,

00:24:29.080 she was paying

00:24:29.940 for this out

00:24:30.500 of their campaign,

00:24:32.840 she had lawyers

00:24:33.900 involved that were

00:24:34.640 doing this and

00:24:35.260 trying to sell

00:24:35.920 this.

00:24:36.600 Literally,

00:24:37.400 it's the exact

00:24:38.000 same time frame.

00:24:39.080 So,

00:24:39.760 her campaign

00:24:40.400 spent over

00:24:41.220 one million

00:24:42.040 dollars to

00:24:42.720 create the

00:24:43.140 Steele dossier.

00:24:43.940 The Steele dossier,

00:24:44.820 you remember,

00:24:45.220 is this scurrilous

00:24:46.120 and scandalous

00:24:46.900 dossier assembled

00:24:48.520 in Europe that

00:24:49.460 alleged all these

00:24:50.820 things that Trump

00:24:51.560 had done,

00:24:52.180 including the

00:24:52.660 famous pee tape,

00:24:54.540 all of which

00:24:55.080 was fiction,

00:24:56.040 all of which

00:24:56.560 was false,

00:24:57.500 it was made

00:24:58.200 up.

00:24:58.560 Brought to you,

00:24:59.060 paid for by the

00:24:59.680 Democratic Party

00:25:00.400 and Hillary Clinton

00:25:01.300 for president.

00:25:01.920 It was,

00:25:03.300 and the Hillary

00:25:04.620 Clinton campaign

00:25:05.500 recorded that

00:25:06.280 over a million

00:25:06.800 dollars as legal

00:25:08.220 fees.

00:25:09.500 So,

00:25:10.360 if recording

00:25:11.460 something as

00:25:12.200 legal fees

00:25:12.880 that is not

00:25:13.500 legal fees

00:25:14.360 in the context

00:25:15.780 of a presidential

00:25:16.560 campaign is

00:25:18.120 criminal in

00:25:18.840 Manhattan,

00:25:19.720 then Hillary

00:25:20.380 Clinton,

00:25:20.800 a resident of

00:25:21.460 New York,

00:25:21.940 committed the

00:25:22.420 same crime

00:25:23.000 at the exact

00:25:23.640 same time,

00:25:25.200 2016,

00:25:26.340 in the exact

00:25:27.040 same place,

00:25:27.780 Manhattan,

00:25:28.380 New York.

00:25:29.740 There is no

00:25:30.840 coherent way,

00:25:31.760 all right,

00:25:31.940 if Alvin Bragg

00:25:32.640 wants to indict

00:25:33.520 Hillary Clinton

00:25:34.600 and Donald Trump

00:25:35.280 side by side,

00:25:37.220 then they can

00:25:37.780 lose both cases,

00:25:39.800 but that at

00:25:40.260 least is

00:25:40.620 marginally

00:25:41.500 consistent.

00:25:42.940 If he only

00:25:43.500 indicts Donald

00:25:44.220 Trump,

00:25:45.320 everyone gets

00:25:46.060 the joke.

00:25:46.980 He hates

00:25:47.380 Trump,

00:25:47.940 he's a left-wing

00:25:48.600 Democrat,

00:25:49.680 and by any

00:25:50.380 means necessary

00:25:51.100 is his

00:25:51.440 approach.

00:25:52.920 Canadian

00:25:53.300 women are

00:25:53.820 looking for

00:25:54.300 more,

00:25:54.920 more of

00:25:55.240 themselves,

00:25:56.000 their

00:25:56.140 businesses,

00:25:56.940 their elected

00:25:57.360 leaders,

00:25:57.900 and the world

00:25:58.460 around them.

00:25:59.100 And that's

00:25:59.480 why we're

00:25:59.760 thrilled to

00:26:00.280 introduce the

00:26:01.100 Honest Talk

00:26:01.760 podcast.

00:26:02.840 I'm Jennifer

00:26:03.380 Stewart.

00:26:04.040 And I'm

00:26:04.340 Catherine Clark.

00:26:05.260 And in this

00:26:05.740 podcast,

00:26:06.220 we interview

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00:26:07.380 most inspiring

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00:26:12.560 all at different

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00:27:27.900 Senator, I want

00:27:28.280 to get to

00:27:28.540 another question

00:27:29.140 real quick that

00:27:29.760 came in.

00:27:30.720 What are the

00:27:31.200 chances of

00:27:32.980 dismissal, and

00:27:33.860 if found

00:27:34.300 innocent, can

00:27:35.040 the DA face

00:27:36.320 being disbarred?

00:27:38.580 So I think the

00:27:39.460 chances of

00:27:39.980 dismissal are

00:27:40.600 high.

00:27:41.060 It will depend

00:27:41.740 on what trial

00:27:42.700 court they get.

00:27:43.980 There are some

00:27:44.600 partisan Democrat

00:27:45.440 trial judges in

00:27:46.740 New York, so it

00:27:48.560 is possible they

00:27:49.380 get a highly

00:27:50.140 partisan trial

00:27:50.920 judge who

00:27:51.780 refuses to

00:27:52.460 dismiss the

00:27:52.960 claims.

00:27:53.320 If they have a

00:27:54.140 trial judge who

00:27:54.860 follows the

00:27:55.320 law, I think

00:27:56.200 this ought to

00:27:56.600 be dismissed

00:27:57.180 at trial court.

00:27:58.940 If not, it

00:28:00.240 should be thrown

00:28:01.220 out on appeal.

00:28:02.020 But if it's not

00:28:02.740 dismissed at the

00:28:03.400 trial court, there

00:28:04.060 will almost

00:28:04.460 assuredly be a

00:28:05.700 motion to dismiss

00:28:06.540 the indictment, a

00:28:07.460 fight early on

00:28:08.500 in the trial court.

00:28:10.140 If it's not

00:28:11.000 dismissed in the

00:28:11.700 trial court, I

00:28:12.400 expect an appeal.

00:28:13.960 And any appellate

00:28:15.660 court following the

00:28:16.500 law, I think, will

00:28:17.340 throw this out.

00:28:17.960 I think this will

00:28:18.740 ultimately be

00:28:19.620 rejected.

00:28:20.840 How long does

00:28:21.600 this last, then?

00:28:22.660 I mean, we've got

00:28:23.600 a presidential

00:28:23.940 campaign here.

00:28:24.780 Look, it depends,

00:28:25.720 but, you know,

00:28:28.420 prosecutions can

00:28:29.400 drag on for

00:28:30.100 months and years.

00:28:32.200 It depends how

00:28:33.260 quickly the New

00:28:33.800 York courts

00:28:34.260 operate.

00:28:34.840 But it is easy

00:28:35.800 to see this

00:28:36.540 lasting for many

00:28:37.780 months, and it

00:28:38.420 could conceivably

00:28:39.160 last beyond

00:28:39.860 Election Day

00:28:40.440 2024.

00:28:41.400 Which brings me

00:28:42.200 to a question I

00:28:42.900 have to ask as a

00:28:43.620 follow-up.

00:28:44.300 Donald Trump,

00:28:45.340 let's say, gets

00:28:45.920 elected.

00:28:46.280 He becomes

00:28:47.960 President of the

00:28:48.420 United States

00:28:48.660 of America again

00:28:49.800 for another four

00:28:50.460 years.

00:28:51.420 January 20th, he's

00:28:52.540 sworn in.

00:28:53.020 January 21st, he

00:28:55.040 is convicted.

00:28:57.140 What happens

00:28:58.060 then?

00:28:59.940 Look, if he's

00:29:01.480 convicted, and

00:29:02.300 let's assume for a

00:29:03.280 second he's

00:29:03.740 convicted and

00:29:04.280 sentenced to

00:29:04.700 jail, I don't

00:29:06.920 think that's

00:29:07.320 going to happen.

00:29:07.820 Let's be clear.

00:29:08.440 This is a

00:29:08.820 hypothetical that I

00:29:09.660 think is false,

00:29:10.520 but there is

00:29:11.260 nothing in the

00:29:11.780 Constitution to

00:29:12.500 prevent a

00:29:13.120 president from

00:29:13.940 serving while in

00:29:15.540 jail.

00:29:16.280 So, for

00:29:17.300 anyone who

00:29:17.780 thinks...

00:29:18.600 Is that

00:29:18.860 because they

00:29:19.220 never could

00:29:19.640 have imagined

00:29:20.140 the scenario

00:29:20.700 that we're

00:29:21.120 living in right

00:29:21.660 now?

00:29:21.940 Yes, yes.

00:29:22.700 Look, I think

00:29:23.240 that's a

00:29:23.560 significant part

00:29:24.240 of it, that

00:29:24.600 they didn't

00:29:25.180 envision the

00:29:26.400 legal system

00:29:27.060 being weaponized.

00:29:28.060 I mean, as

00:29:28.360 you know, I

00:29:28.720 wrote an entire

00:29:29.320 book just a few

00:29:30.020 months ago on

00:29:31.160 this topic,

00:29:31.900 Justice

00:29:32.200 Corrupted, How

00:29:32.960 the Left

00:29:33.320 Has Weaponized

00:29:34.000 the Legal

00:29:34.320 System.

00:29:35.060 If you haven't

00:29:35.440 bought the

00:29:35.800 book, go buy

00:29:36.360 the book, because

00:29:37.060 it talks about

00:29:37.800 Alvin Bragg, it

00:29:38.560 talks about

00:29:39.020 DOJ, it

00:29:39.940 talks about

00:29:40.420 the FBI, it

00:29:41.120 lays out this

00:29:41.760 problem.

00:29:42.060 And the

00:29:42.220 reason I

00:29:42.540 wrote the

00:29:42.860 book, I

00:29:43.580 saw what

00:29:44.720 Obama had

00:29:45.920 done, what

00:29:46.580 the deep

00:29:47.000 state had

00:29:47.500 done against

00:29:48.040 Trump, I

00:29:48.500 saw what

00:29:49.020 Joe Biden

00:29:49.520 and Merrick

00:29:49.900 Garland were

00:29:50.420 doing, I

00:29:50.780 saw what

00:29:51.120 Alvin Bragg

00:29:51.620 had done.

00:29:52.520 This has

00:29:53.040 been coming

00:29:53.500 a long time.

00:29:54.240 The framers

00:29:54.740 never envisioned

00:29:56.080 the justice

00:29:57.280 system being

00:29:57.940 used by that.

00:29:58.920 But in

00:29:59.720 terms of, so

00:30:00.520 there's some

00:30:00.900 people who are

00:30:01.380 saying, well,

00:30:01.720 gosh, does

00:30:02.740 the indictment

00:30:03.380 mean Trump

00:30:03.900 can't run?

00:30:05.240 Let me tell

00:30:05.820 you, Article

00:30:06.640 2 of the

00:30:07.140 Constitution

00:30:07.680 specifies the

00:30:08.740 grounds to

00:30:10.240 serve as

00:30:10.580 president, there

00:30:11.100 are three.

00:30:12.360 What the

00:30:12.620 Constitution says

00:30:13.400 is no person

00:30:14.120 except a

00:30:14.640 natural-born

00:30:15.260 citizen, which

00:30:16.480 Trump is,

00:30:17.380 shall be

00:30:17.780 eligible to

00:30:18.520 the office of

00:30:19.180 the president,

00:30:19.820 neither shall

00:30:20.420 any person be

00:30:21.500 eligible to

00:30:21.980 that office who

00:30:22.720 shall not have

00:30:23.460 attained the

00:30:24.080 age of 35

00:30:24.820 years, Trump

00:30:25.480 is over 35,

00:30:26.960 and been 14

00:30:28.040 years a resident

00:30:28.920 within the

00:30:29.780 United States.

00:30:30.440 Those are the

00:30:30.860 three criteria under

00:30:32.180 the Constitution.

00:30:32.920 You've got to be a

00:30:33.300 natural-born

00:30:33.720 citizen,

00:30:34.440 at least 35

00:30:35.580 years old, and

00:30:36.360 have been 14

00:30:37.000 years a resident

00:30:37.640 in the United

00:30:37.980 States.

00:30:38.680 Trump meets all

00:30:39.320 three of those.

00:30:39.980 So he is

00:30:40.740 eligible to run

00:30:41.420 for president.

00:30:42.000 He's eligible to

00:30:42.580 serve as

00:30:42.960 president.

00:30:43.760 Now, there

00:30:44.660 is potentially

00:30:45.620 one other

00:30:46.200 ground that

00:30:47.560 could make

00:30:48.040 someone ineligible

00:30:48.820 to serve for

00:30:49.380 president, and

00:30:49.920 that is under

00:30:50.300 the 14th

00:30:50.920 Amendment, under

00:30:52.580 Section 3 of

00:30:53.460 the 14th

00:30:54.020 Amendment, it

00:30:55.280 provides no

00:30:56.080 person shall be

00:30:56.760 a senator,

00:30:57.240 representative in

00:30:57.820 Congress, or

00:30:58.340 electorate of

00:30:58.700 the president or

00:30:59.140 vice president, or

00:31:00.260 hold any office

00:31:01.760 under the United

00:31:02.420 States who,

00:31:03.820 having previously

00:31:04.760 taken an oath to

00:31:06.420 support the

00:31:06.940 Constitution of the

00:31:07.660 United States, shall

00:31:08.480 have engaged in

00:31:09.900 insurrection or

00:31:10.960 rebellion against the

00:31:11.980 same, or given aid and

00:31:13.120 comfort to the enemies

00:31:14.020 thereof.

00:31:14.860 So this is something in

00:31:16.220 the fever swamps of the

00:31:17.300 left, the Democratic

00:31:18.060 side, they get great joy

00:31:20.280 of, okay, Trump will be

00:31:21.880 barred from running for

00:31:23.380 or serving as president

00:31:24.360 under Section 3 of the

00:31:26.160 14th Amendment.

00:31:27.020 It is at least

00:31:27.760 conceivable there will be

00:31:29.040 lawsuits arguing Trump

00:31:31.280 is ineligible under

00:31:32.440 Section 3 of the

00:31:33.200 14th Amendment and

00:31:34.060 arguing that what

00:31:35.460 under, that what

00:31:36.280 happened on January

00:31:37.120 6th qualified as, to

00:31:39.080 use the constitutional

00:31:39.820 language, an

00:31:41.020 insurrection or

00:31:41.880 rebellion.

00:31:43.060 That's why Democrats

00:31:44.340 use the word

00:31:45.120 insurrection so much.

00:31:46.420 Over and over and

00:31:46.920 over again.

00:31:47.640 That's not going to

00:31:48.420 succeed.

00:31:48.940 I think it is highly

00:31:49.720 unlikely to succeed.

00:31:51.840 We might see a

00:31:53.400 prosecution from the

00:31:55.380 Biden Justice

00:31:56.160 Department, the

00:31:56.880 special prosecutor that's

00:31:58.060 investigating Trump,

00:31:58.940 might bring a

00:32:00.280 prosecution for

00:32:01.840 insurrection or

00:32:02.660 rebellion or giving

00:32:03.660 aid and comfort to

00:32:05.100 the enemies thereof,

00:32:06.080 but there has been no

00:32:07.100 prosecution.

00:32:08.200 So excluding that, if

00:32:09.740 he was convicted of

00:32:11.060 another crime, that does

00:32:12.240 not mean that he is

00:32:13.080 ineligible to be

00:32:14.920 president again.

00:32:15.540 The president of the

00:32:15.620 United States could

00:32:17.000 commit murder.

00:32:19.120 Joe Biden could

00:32:21.260 walk into the

00:32:25.580 office of his chief

00:32:26.500 of staff and kill

00:32:27.460 his chief of staff on

00:32:28.880 national television.

00:32:30.660 Joe Biden could be

00:32:31.500 prosecuted and

00:32:32.440 sentenced to life in

00:32:33.480 prison.

00:32:34.480 And if nothing else

00:32:35.580 happened, Joe Biden

00:32:36.420 would remain the

00:32:37.080 president of the United

00:32:37.600 States.

00:32:38.380 Wow.

00:32:38.660 Now, the natural

00:32:40.460 step that would

00:32:41.120 happen in that

00:32:41.740 hypothetical is the

00:32:42.780 House of Representatives

00:32:43.560 would impeach Joe

00:32:44.460 Biden for having

00:32:45.140 committed high crimes

00:32:45.860 and misdemeanors.

00:32:47.040 And in that

00:32:47.480 instance, presumably

00:32:48.380 the Senate would

00:32:49.060 convict him and

00:32:49.700 remove him from

00:32:50.240 office.

00:32:50.740 But that's how you

00:32:51.660 remove a president

00:32:52.300 from office is is

00:32:53.860 it's not the

00:32:54.960 mechanism.

00:32:55.600 It's not the

00:32:56.080 conviction.

00:32:56.580 It's what you do

00:32:57.620 afterwards in

00:32:58.380 Congress that would

00:32:59.480 make you ineligible

00:33:00.260 to be president.

00:33:01.460 Simply a murder

00:33:02.300 conviction, simply a

00:33:03.420 life life imprisonment

00:33:04.660 sentence would not

00:33:06.120 automatically remove

00:33:07.680 you from from the

00:33:08.880 office.

00:33:09.160 It would take the

00:33:10.900 Senate convicting in

00:33:11.860 an impeachment.

00:33:12.780 Interesting.

00:33:13.180 Let's get to another

00:33:13.760 question here.

00:33:14.500 Another one that came

00:33:15.160 through.

00:33:16.220 When are we going to

00:33:17.580 see indictments against

00:33:18.540 the Clinton slash

00:33:19.500 Biden's?

00:33:20.080 I mean, the whole

00:33:20.600 world has seen the

00:33:21.360 evidence.

00:33:22.380 What more is needed?

00:33:23.220 I think this goes back

00:33:24.360 to Hunter Biden,

00:33:25.620 James Biden, that the

00:33:27.340 Biden crime family

00:33:28.320 continues to expand.

00:33:29.980 People see the

00:33:30.680 laptop.

00:33:31.320 They see the money.

00:33:32.100 They see the

00:33:32.520 suspicious activity

00:33:33.180 reports.

00:33:33.780 And there does seem

00:33:34.860 to be two different

00:33:35.700 systems of justice in

00:33:36.780 this country.

00:33:37.460 If you're a Democrat,

00:33:38.640 you get a pass.

00:33:39.400 If you're a Republican,

00:33:40.260 we'll make up crimes

00:33:41.280 against you to shut

00:33:42.420 you up.

00:33:42.740 I mean, how we had

00:33:43.260 somebody that went to

00:33:43.960 jail the other day that

00:33:44.920 was convicted because

00:33:45.560 they made a meme of

00:33:46.300 Hillary Clinton about

00:33:47.140 Hillary Clinton.

00:33:48.100 And people see that and

00:33:50.000 they say we're not safe

00:33:52.040 in this country if you're

00:33:52.880 Republican and the

00:33:54.200 system can come after

00:33:55.180 you.

00:33:55.380 But Democrats, it's

00:33:56.740 good to go.

00:33:57.240 Do whatever you want

00:33:57.800 to do.

00:33:59.060 Look, if you look at

00:34:00.140 the conduct Hillary

00:34:01.580 Clinton committed, it

00:34:02.500 was altogether different

00:34:03.600 from this sort of

00:34:04.340 conduct.

00:34:05.380 And actually, as it

00:34:06.680 concerns false business

00:34:08.520 records, it was

00:34:09.240 identical and 10x worse.

00:34:11.600 In other words, Trump

00:34:12.440 is alleged to have done

00:34:13.680 so with 130,000.

00:34:15.340 Hillary Clinton is

00:34:16.220 admitted to have done

00:34:17.080 so with over a million

00:34:18.040 dollars.

00:34:18.520 The Bidens, we've

00:34:22.140 talked at great length

00:34:23.040 on this podcast about

00:34:24.140 the evidence of

00:34:25.200 corruption by the

00:34:26.380 Biden family.

00:34:27.700 It is significant.

00:34:29.020 I believe the Biden

00:34:29.980 DOJ wants to get

00:34:31.160 nowhere near it.

00:34:31.900 I don't believe they're

00:34:32.520 investigating it.

00:34:33.260 I don't believe they're

00:34:33.800 looking at it.

00:34:34.840 I believe Merrick

00:34:35.860 Garland's plan was to

00:34:38.200 indict Donald Trump for

00:34:40.360 improperly having

00:34:41.680 classified documents at

00:34:43.000 Mar-a-Lago.

00:34:43.640 I think they were very

00:34:44.400 excited.

00:34:44.960 I think they were, they

00:34:46.400 had started, they had

00:34:47.340 leaked.

00:34:47.700 They were going to

00:34:48.320 indict Hunter Biden for

00:34:51.040 drug and tax issues,

00:34:52.240 which don't implicate his

00:34:53.220 father or the family

00:34:53.940 corruption, just say poor

00:34:55.640 troubled soul with a

00:34:56.660 substance abuse problem.

00:34:58.280 I think Merrick Garland

00:34:59.500 wanted to do that in

00:35:00.620 order to show how

00:35:01.320 even-handed he was.

00:35:02.380 Look, I'm indicting a

00:35:03.140 Biden, I'm indicting a

00:35:03.980 Trump, see, it's right

00:35:04.920 in the middle.

00:35:06.300 Then a funny thing

00:35:07.360 happened on the way to

00:35:08.020 the forum, which is we

00:35:09.740 discovered that Joe

00:35:10.600 Biden had classified

00:35:11.620 documents stored seemingly

00:35:13.660 in every bodily orifice he

00:35:15.420 had.

00:35:15.640 Like, I don't understand

00:35:17.320 why Biden leaves classified

00:35:18.880 documents everywhere.

00:35:21.020 It started to become

00:35:22.280 almost a comedy of error as

00:35:23.580 one after the other, after

00:35:24.600 the other was discovered.

00:35:27.060 What it created was a

00:35:28.800 legal and even more

00:35:30.660 significantly a political

00:35:31.880 problem for Merrick Garland

00:35:33.600 in that now, I think

00:35:36.880 Garland understands if DOJ

00:35:38.560 indicts Donald Trump for

00:35:40.500 classified documents at

00:35:41.760 Mar-a-Lago, it is

00:35:43.920 indefensible not to indict

00:35:45.440 Joe Biden for the same

00:35:46.480 thing.

00:35:46.900 And so I think they feel

00:35:49.360 just stuck right now.

00:35:53.040 We've talked about the

00:35:55.300 special counsel who's been

00:35:56.640 appointed to investigate the

00:35:58.000 Biden classified documents.

00:35:59.880 The real question that will

00:36:01.420 indicate whether that

00:36:02.340 special counsel is

00:36:04.340 fulfilling his oath is

00:36:06.280 whether he's willing to

00:36:07.340 investigate and does in

00:36:08.540 fact investigate the

00:36:10.100 connections of corruption

00:36:11.260 back to Joe Biden himself

00:36:13.080 or whether he seals him

00:36:14.400 off and doesn't look at

00:36:15.740 the corruption.

00:36:16.960 I hope they do.

00:36:18.200 I have to say my level of

00:36:20.040 optimism that the Biden

00:36:21.120 DOJ will investigate or

00:36:23.400 prosecute the Biden family

00:36:24.920 corruption is extremely,

00:36:26.700 extremely low.

00:36:27.420 I want to get to one other

00:36:28.260 question before we get to

00:36:29.260 Mayorkas because I want to

00:36:30.080 make sure we leave time for

00:36:30.940 that and what he had to say

00:36:32.080 on 60 Minutes.

00:36:32.700 But the last one here is a

00:36:33.600 thread and I kind of want you

00:36:34.900 to go through it so people

00:36:35.740 understand and this is an

00:36:36.820 important one.

00:36:38.020 So this is an individual.

00:36:39.180 So we had when we put out

00:36:40.500 on Twitter said you have

00:36:41.400 questions about the Trump

00:36:42.460 indictment.

00:36:43.060 We had a lot of good

00:36:43.900 questions, a number of

00:36:45.100 which we went through in

00:36:45.840 this podcast.

00:36:46.680 We also had trolls on the

00:36:48.080 left who just kind of had

00:36:50.080 fun and that's fine.

00:36:50.960 I enjoy trolls.

00:36:52.100 I have to admit Twitter would

00:36:53.420 be more boring without the

00:36:55.180 trolls.

00:36:55.700 I enjoy jousting with lefties.

00:36:58.980 It's you know, it's usually

00:36:59.880 like shooting fish in a

00:37:00.840 barrel.

00:37:01.360 But in this instance, this

00:37:04.740 this person presumably from

00:37:06.140 the left sent out a tweet

00:37:07.640 that is copying an earlier

00:37:09.800 tweet I had sent that said

00:37:11.540 elected officials, no

00:37:12.520 matter how high their

00:37:13.220 position, should be held

00:37:14.580 accountable for criminal

00:37:15.440 conduct.

00:37:15.960 The rule of law matters.

00:37:17.000 And this individual says,

00:37:18.980 my question, is this you?

00:37:20.720 Ha ha, lefty.

00:37:21.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:37:21.980 I got it.

00:37:22.620 Well, this was actually part

00:37:24.320 of a thread of tweets that I

00:37:26.100 had sent about Hillary

00:37:27.000 Clinton.

00:37:27.460 So if you look at the thread,

00:37:29.120 the first email, this was on

00:37:30.700 October 28th, 2016, which is

00:37:32.860 Americans already know Hillary

00:37:34.880 Clinton's lifelong pattern of

00:37:36.260 corruption.

00:37:36.620 And I linked to a detailed

00:37:39.440 summary of that lifelong

00:37:40.840 pattern.

00:37:41.960 The second tweet was, it's

00:37:43.840 abundantly clear her handling

00:37:45.220 of classified info on a

00:37:46.500 private email server was

00:37:48.180 grossly negligent, as the FBI

00:37:50.260 admitted this summer.

00:37:51.340 You remember James Comey at

00:37:52.200 his press conference admitting

00:37:53.760 she'd violated the law and it

00:37:55.180 was grossly negligent.

00:37:56.740 And then the third tweet was,

00:37:58.820 elected officials, no matter

00:37:59.940 how high their position, should

00:38:01.280 be held accountable for

00:38:02.800 criminal conduct.

00:38:03.660 The rule of law matters.

00:38:04.740 Every bit of that is

00:38:06.260 absolutely right.

00:38:07.160 And with Hillary Clinton, you

00:38:08.340 saw a repeated pattern of

00:38:10.700 criminal behavior.

00:38:12.100 And you also saw a repeated

00:38:14.200 pattern of the destruction of

00:38:15.520 evidence, including wiping

00:38:18.080 hard drives, including using

00:38:19.940 hammers to smash cell phones to

00:38:22.460 destroy the evidence.

00:38:23.840 By the way, as a legal matter, if

00:38:25.580 you destroy evidence, you are

00:38:28.740 entitled to presume that that is

00:38:31.380 because the evidence would have

00:38:32.820 implicated you in a crime.

00:38:34.640 In this instance, the alleged

00:38:37.440 crime that Alvin Bragg is

00:38:39.040 bringing of a bookkeeping error is

00:38:41.520 number one, trivial, number two,

00:38:43.340 past the statute of limitations, and

00:38:46.420 number three, obviously pretextual.

00:38:49.720 To say the rule of law matters, look,

00:38:52.100 there's a concomitant aspect to it,

00:38:54.660 which is when you are prosecuting a

00:38:58.960 government official, particularly a

00:39:00.640 government official of the opposing

00:39:02.120 party.

00:39:03.480 There is an obligation that you have

00:39:05.680 a standard that this really

00:39:08.020 matter, that this be a real and

00:39:10.400 significant violation, that it not

00:39:12.220 be some ticky tack.

00:39:13.980 Aha, I got video of you going 56

00:39:16.160 miles an hour and a 55.

00:39:17.780 We're coming to put you away.

00:39:20.920 That principle is absolutely true.

00:39:24.120 And listen, I'm not advocating that

00:39:27.040 Biden be prosecuted for ticky tack

00:39:29.140 irrelevant issues.

00:39:30.420 I'm interested in whether he was

00:39:33.540 engaged in actual corruption with the

00:39:36.840 government of the Chinese communist

00:39:38.440 government that was enriching himself

00:39:40.820 and his family to the tune of millions

00:39:42.520 of dollars.

00:39:43.160 That's classic public corruption.

00:39:46.120 It is significant.

00:39:47.020 It is consequential.

00:39:48.260 And the corporate media and the

00:39:50.580 Democrats desperately want to avoid any

00:39:52.400 inquiry to that.

00:39:53.460 I don't expect the DOJ to get into it.

00:39:55.420 I do expect the House of Representatives

00:39:57.920 to continue to press forward with

00:40:01.320 oversight and make those facts public.

00:40:02.960 And a side note, if someone's going to

00:40:04.240 try to troll you, they should at least

00:40:05.660 read the whole Twitter thread before

00:40:06.960 they do it.

00:40:08.100 Public service announcement there.

00:40:09.580 You know, oddly enough, trolls are

00:40:11.340 rarely known for their diligence and

00:40:14.940 attention to detail.

00:40:15.880 Yeah.

00:40:16.460 I want to talk about Mayorkas real quick.

00:40:17.880 The border, it's a really important

00:40:19.300 issue.

00:40:20.100 You had a bunch of back and forth with

00:40:22.140 Mayorkas when he was testifying

00:40:23.240 recently we've talked about on the pod.

00:40:25.080 If you missed it, go back and listen

00:40:26.260 to that.

00:40:26.940 Before we get that, I want to tell you

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00:41:17.540 Senator, let's talk about what's been

00:41:20.280 happening with Mayorkas to the border.

00:41:22.600 You talked to him about what was going

00:41:24.700 at the border.

00:41:25.840 It's now becoming, I think, a political

00:41:27.720 liability for the Biden administration

00:41:30.040 when you see the media asking questions

00:41:32.840 that they refuse to answer.

00:41:34.620 One of those happened on 60 Minutes,

00:41:36.260 and I want people to see what was said.

00:41:37.800 Take a look.

00:41:38.660 The chief of the Border Patrol, Raul Ortiz,

00:41:40.880 testified before Congress that some areas

00:41:43.100 of the border are in a crisis situation.

00:41:45.440 Do you agree?

00:41:46.720 I think that we face a very serious

00:41:48.860 challenge in certain parts of the border.

00:41:51.180 Do you view what's happening right now

00:41:52.960 on the border as a crisis?

00:41:54.460 I view it as a significant challenge.

00:41:56.760 Why won't you say the word crisis?

00:41:58.360 You know what?

00:41:58.840 Because I have tremendous faith in the

00:42:00.920 people of the Department of Homeland

00:42:02.720 Security, and a crisis speaks to me of a

00:42:06.640 withdrawal from our mission, and we are

00:42:10.660 only putting more force and more energy

00:42:13.280 into it.

00:42:13.780 I don't believe him.

00:42:15.100 I think you would probably agree with that.

00:42:16.460 I also think at some point you just look

00:42:17.960 like an idiot when you won't admit

00:42:19.940 what everybody's watching.

00:42:21.720 You know, we're looking at now over 6 million

00:42:24.080 illegal immigrants have crossed under his

00:42:26.000 watch under Joe Biden's presidency.

00:42:27.580 It's the worst illegal immigration in our

00:42:29.960 nation's history.

00:42:31.240 We have had also massive spikes in the number

00:42:34.300 of illegal immigrants dying on the border

00:42:37.100 under his watch.

00:42:38.960 We had the highest rate of drug overdoses

00:42:40.960 last year in our nation's history,

00:42:42.840 over 100,000 Americans died of drug overdoses,

00:42:46.620 the vast majority from Chinese fentanyl

00:42:49.180 flooding across the border, and he doesn't

00:42:51.160 consider any of that a crisis.

00:42:52.780 Look, what he's doing is obvious.

00:42:55.680 It's political.

00:42:57.000 He is engaging in political spin.

00:42:58.840 Someone is giving him a talking point that

00:43:01.060 if you say the word crisis, it's bad politics.

00:43:04.080 And so he engages in absolute denial of reality.

00:43:09.360 You know, it really was striking.

00:43:10.480 60 Minutes, their cross-examination is almost

00:43:13.760 word for word.

00:43:15.100 The cross-examination I did a week earlier

00:43:17.760 in the Senate Judiciary Committee.

00:43:19.260 Here, take a look.

00:43:20.000 Yeah.

00:43:20.740 Is there a crisis at our southern border?

00:43:23.540 Senator, there is a very significant...

00:43:25.920 That's a yes or no question.

00:43:26.980 There's a very significant...

00:43:27.620 Is there a crisis?

00:43:29.700 Senator, there's a very significant challenge...

00:43:31.620 I think your microphone is not on.

00:43:34.340 There is a very significant challenge that we are facing...

00:43:37.020 Yes or no.

00:43:37.720 Is there a crisis?

00:43:39.060 I believe I've addressed that question, Senator.

00:43:40.940 So you're refusing to answer?

00:43:42.060 Senator, there is a very significant challenge...

00:43:45.000 Will you answer if there's a crisis?

00:43:46.900 Therefore, we are dedicating the resources...

00:43:49.040 Okay, so you're refusing to answer.

00:43:50.780 It reminds me of my kids arguing with Siri

00:43:53.060 when they're trying to get Siri to do something for them.

00:43:55.200 He refused five times.

00:43:57.040 So, five times in a row, I ask him,

00:44:00.060 is there a crisis?

00:44:00.760 Now, note, he won't say no.

00:44:03.780 Yeah.

00:44:04.280 And he won't say yes.

00:44:05.340 Yeah.

00:44:06.480 When you ask, is there a crisis?

00:44:08.180 He says, there's a significant challenge.

00:44:09.780 It was clear some little pipsqueak political staffer

00:44:13.020 gave a talking point.

00:44:14.080 When everyone asks, is there a crisis?

00:44:15.500 Say, there's a significant challenge.

00:44:17.480 I think it's a mistake not to answer questions.

00:44:21.320 He's a horrible witness.

00:44:24.300 But it says something that even the press, 60 Minutes,

00:44:27.340 I mean, to see 60 Minutes laughing,

00:44:30.460 saying, why wouldn't you admit it's a crisis?

00:44:32.480 Like, look, later in my questioning, as you know,

00:44:35.240 I got very angry with Mayorkas,

00:44:36.880 and I am very angry with Mayorkas,

00:44:38.880 because for me, this is personal.

00:44:41.000 Look, I represent 30 million Texans.

00:44:43.100 I'm down on the border.

00:44:44.080 I see the people in South Texas that are suffering.

00:44:47.560 I've seen the children who are physically assaulted.

00:44:50.640 I've seen the women who've been raped.

00:44:52.900 I've seen the human carnage.

00:44:55.440 I've seen dead bodies floating in the Rio Grande.

00:44:58.880 The wristbands that you showed at the hearing the other week.

00:45:01.100 Which he didn't know what they were.

00:45:02.280 Yeah.

00:45:02.460 I have to say, in the entire hearing,

00:45:04.820 that was the moment that stunned me the most.

00:45:07.640 When I put up the wristbands,

00:45:09.160 that wasn't meant to be a gotcha question.

00:45:11.180 I was going to ask him about how tragic it was

00:45:15.300 that the cartels are putting color-coded wristbands

00:45:20.440 on the wrists of almost every illegal immigrant

00:45:22.360 to correspond to how many thousands of dollars they owe,

00:45:25.280 that they treat them like human cattle,

00:45:26.900 they treat them like cargo,

00:45:28.760 they trap the teenage boys in working for the drug dealers

00:45:32.080 in cities across America,

00:45:33.540 they trap the teenage girls in sex slavery.

00:45:36.380 All of that is horrific,

00:45:38.480 which I intended to ask him about.

00:45:40.960 But I was stunned when he said,

00:45:42.520 I don't know what those wristbands are.

00:45:44.260 Like, you have literally not even pretended to do your job,

00:45:49.140 if that's the case,

00:45:50.080 because it means when you stand on the banks of the Rio Grande,

00:45:53.760 you see them covering the grass.

00:45:56.640 You look down and just see hundreds.

00:45:58.240 You see thousands of them.

00:45:59.720 You see little ones that are clearly on little kids

00:46:01.880 that are on four, five, six-year-old kids.

00:46:05.200 When you talk to Border Patrol agents,

00:46:06.900 what it means, if he was telling the truth,

00:46:08.660 if he wasn't lying,

00:46:09.940 I don't know if he was lying

00:46:11.040 when he said he didn't know what those were,

00:46:12.380 but if he was telling the truth,

00:46:14.340 it means he hasn't bothered in two years on the job

00:46:16.820 to sit down with his agents and say,

00:46:18.100 hey, what's happening?

00:46:19.220 And I got to say his defense in 60 minutes.

00:46:21.380 Well, I won't say it's a crisis

00:46:22.840 because it's, I believe in my agents.

00:46:27.600 What a steaming pile of crap.

00:46:30.060 I got to tell you, his agents don't believe in him.

00:46:31.860 I talk to his agents.

00:46:33.340 They'll all tell you it's a crisis.

00:46:35.160 Every one of them will tell you it's a crisis,

00:46:38.120 and it's a crisis because of him,

00:46:40.100 and it's a crisis because of Joe Biden.

00:46:42.160 Now, I'm going to make a prediction.

00:46:45.040 Within six months,

00:46:48.280 Mayorkas will be out of his job.

00:46:49.780 Really?

00:46:50.140 I don't know if he'll resign or if Biden will fire him,

00:46:54.000 but I think the Democrats have decided

00:46:57.440 to make Mayorkas the scapegoat,

00:46:59.040 even sending him out on 60 Minutes.

00:47:01.540 Well, and it looks like the media is clearly

00:47:04.200 kind of starting to become done with him,

00:47:06.200 and I want to show this last clip

00:47:07.680 because it proves that point look.

00:47:09.820 But the DHS estimates another 600,000 people

00:47:13.280 evaded agents and entered the U.S. illegally,

00:47:16.760 the highest number in over a decade.

00:47:18.900 What the American people see

00:47:21.440 is a border that looks to be chaotic,

00:47:25.000 that looks to be porous.

00:47:26.560 Well, let's, I mean,

00:47:27.880 the number of people that are arriving at our border

00:47:31.120 is at an extraordinary height.

00:47:35.200 There's no question about that.

00:47:36.960 But that is not unique

00:47:38.440 to the southern border of the United States.

00:47:41.140 There is a tremendous amount of movement

00:47:43.240 throughout the hemisphere

00:47:44.340 and, in fact, throughout the world.

00:47:46.720 The fact that even 60 Minutes would show those images

00:47:49.400 tells you that the tide is turning,

00:47:51.300 but then also the fact that he's got

00:47:53.160 such a terrible response to their question

00:47:54.920 with video evidence tells you something else.

00:47:58.040 Well, look, it's the talking point of the Democrats.

00:48:00.100 We saw this at the hearing with Mayorkas and Judiciary,

00:48:02.740 where they all said,

00:48:03.260 this is not Biden's fault.

00:48:04.800 There was illegal immigration before Biden,

00:48:06.780 and it's a problem elsewhere in the world.

00:48:08.740 That's all part of it.

00:48:09.600 It's not our fault, not our fault.

00:48:10.700 We didn't do anything wrong,

00:48:12.440 except for one very inconvenient fact.

00:48:16.240 In 2020, the last year of Trump's presidency,

00:48:19.760 we had the lowest rate of illegal immigration

00:48:22.220 in 45 years.

00:48:24.660 The instant Joe Biden became president,

00:48:29.240 the rate skyrocketed.

00:48:30.700 That week skyrocketed.

00:48:33.360 We now have the highest rate ever recorded.

00:48:36.160 We went from the lowest rate in 45 years

00:48:38.540 to the highest rate ever recorded.

00:48:39.920 We went instantaneously because of Joe Biden

00:48:43.480 and Alejandro Mayorkas' decisions.

00:48:46.380 And I told you the moment at the judiciary hearing

00:48:49.760 when I really realized, wow,

00:48:51.680 the Democrats have decided they found their scapegoat

00:48:54.160 and he's a bald Cuban in the cabinet,

00:48:57.140 which is when Mayorkas was getting pummeled by me

00:49:01.660 and he looked to Dick Durbin,

00:49:03.000 the chairman of the committee,

00:49:03.900 and said, Mr. Chairman, will you help me?

00:49:06.200 And Durbin, I've spent 11 years tangling with Durbin.

00:49:08.840 He loves to argue with me.

00:49:10.360 I actually love to argue with him.

00:49:12.660 We have been in there pounding on each other many times.

00:49:16.900 He just looked and kind of shrugged

00:49:18.680 and was like, didn't say a word.

00:49:21.120 And I was like-

00:49:21.980 That's not what you were expecting.

00:49:24.720 Durbin, all right.

00:49:25.580 If it had been Merrick Garland

00:49:27.060 who'd done the exact same thing,

00:49:28.940 Durbin would have jumped in

00:49:30.280 and started arguing with me,

00:49:31.740 which is what he always does.

00:49:33.060 You can Google and find a dozen videos

00:49:35.380 of Durbin jumping in and arguing with me

00:49:37.440 when I'm questioning a witness

00:49:38.780 and it's a Democrat witness,

00:49:40.720 a Biden cabinet member,

00:49:42.120 or an Obama cabinet member,

00:49:43.600 and they're taking on water.

00:49:45.420 It's not going well for them.

00:49:47.540 Durbin, like clockwork,

00:49:48.780 will jump in and try to protect them.

00:49:51.460 And the fact that he just kind of shrugged

00:49:54.120 and is like, nope, you're on your own, buddy.

00:49:56.560 It said to me, wow.

00:49:58.160 Okay, they've made a decision.

00:49:59.960 He's their guy.

00:50:00.820 This is a problem,

00:50:01.940 and he's the fall guy.

00:50:03.600 Within six months,

00:50:05.580 I think Mayorkas is gone.

00:50:06.880 It's going to be a big week

00:50:08.000 in political history.

00:50:09.480 It's going to be very interesting

00:50:10.420 to see what happens,

00:50:11.140 how this plays out in New York.

00:50:12.140 I can promise you this.

00:50:13.540 We will be covering it on Verdict,

00:50:15.540 so make sure you hit that subscribe button.

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00:50:30.120 We will be on top of it all this week.

00:50:31.800 We even did a podcast on Thursday nights

00:50:33.920 last Friday morning,

00:50:34.680 like two in the morning this week

00:50:36.660 when all this hits,

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Verdict with Ted Cruz - April 03, 2023

Trump Indictment - What Are Trump's Options Legally, To Fight Back!

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