Western Standard - 2021 Federal Leaders Debate： Post Debate Analysis

00:00:00.000 Good evening. I'm Derek Fuldebrandt. Welcome to a special edition of The Pipeline. Tonight we're

00:00:14.460 going to be analyzing the federal leaders debate of this election we're in right now. Tonight I'm

00:00:22.260 joined by Jonathan Dennis who's staring into a mysterious corner of his office. Jonathan is the

00:00:30.680 former Minister of Justice and Solicitor General of Alberta. He currently has a practice in Calgary

00:00:36.300 Guardian Law. How do you do? Doing really well. How are you Derek? I don't know. I just watched that

00:00:43.740 so it could be better. We're also just joined by Jeff Calloway. Jeff Calloway is the former president

00:00:50.260 of the Wild Rose Party of Alberta under both Danielle Smith and Brian Jean and he is the

00:00:57.280 president and CEO of High Ground Medica in Calgary. How are you doing? Jeff, can you hear us?

00:01:09.660 Okay, seems Jeff is either on mute or cannot hear us. So our folks in technical will have to work

00:01:16.700 this out. There we go. Oh, Jeff, how are you doing? Yeah, good. Well, gentlemen, we've had three

00:01:25.680 French debates and one about climate change and Quebec. Quite something. I know you are all watching

00:01:32.440 with me. Why don't you give us your initial thoughts? Let's start with you, Jeff.

00:01:38.720 You know, with the Green Party leader, I mean, I'm putting in this no particular order, but with the

00:01:44.820 Green Party leader, it was basically a message of can't we all just get along with Blanchet. You know,

00:01:51.660 he's obviously this isn't his home turf that he's debating on right now being the English language

00:01:56.880 debate, but he did seem a little more calm and composed, I guess. And obviously everything just

00:02:04.260 revolves around sending more money to Quebec. And, you know, logic be damned. Let's just stop all

00:02:11.380 resource development. Dismiss all those, you know, foreign oil tankers running into, into Quebec to,

00:02:18.220 to keep them, their economy going. So that was interesting. Trudeau, you know, he's a little bit

00:02:24.280 combative. I do have to say he was probably, he talked a little bit about the most substantive things

00:02:29.420 in his government. But the problem is, he's been there for six years. And frankly, he is just a lot of

00:02:35.460 show in instead of a lot of a lot of action. We're all pretty well aware of the, the big promises

00:02:41.620 that he makes, and then he never actually does fall through. I was glad that I didn't make a bet

00:02:47.320 with you guys to start a drinking game about every time Harper's name was mentioned, because I think

00:02:54.760 we'd all be on the floor about 30 minutes into the, into the debate. So as far as O'Toole goes,

00:03:03.120 you know, he's probably the, he's the, he's the leader, obviously that on the stage that

00:03:07.260 was calling for, he was the only one, frankly, that really called for any kind of spending

00:03:13.460 constraint, which is, speaks to affordability in this, in this election and in the country.

00:03:19.640 Because of course, if you've got a government, a federal government actually pushing policies

00:03:26.580 and legislation that are going to really increase the cost of living, which I thought was actually

00:03:32.040 quite ironic and hypocritical to have a whole topic on, on affordability and more or less

00:03:38.960 all of their answers revolved around increasing more spending for everyone. Because ultimately

00:03:46.640 that all just hits the pocketbooks of, of average Canadians. This, we need a government

00:03:52.900 that actually gets some of their spending under control. Didn't hear much detail on that tonight,

00:03:56.920 but I would say that O'Toole definitely was the only one that at least hinted at that. It's always

00:04:03.800 not, not exactly politically popular, but we are getting to a point where there's a lot of desperation

00:04:08.120 in Canada. And I would, I think the clear contrast to that is actually Singh, who his answer was just

00:04:16.340 basically keep spending more money on everything over and over and you're not spending enough. Clearly,

00:04:22.340 that would be an economic disaster for Canada. If you think affordability is bad now, I mean,

00:04:27.680 you'll just see the Canadian dollar decline and debts rise. And, you know, we've been through some tough

00:04:33.320 times in, in past decades in, in this country dealing with, uh, overspending governments, uh,

00:04:38.600 Trudeau's father, you know, a big culprit of that. And that never ends up, never ends up well. So he

00:04:44.840 was probably, I would say almost the most, uh, concerning of the speakers I heard tonight. Um,

00:04:51.980 and I will say actually for someone, uh, you know, looking at even, there was an equals poll that was out

00:04:58.100 today that's indicated that, uh, Bernie's PPC party is at 11% and at 19% in Alberta. And of course,

00:05:07.160 but the only thing we heard about Alberta tonight is how they want to shut down lines. And, you know,

00:05:11.480 Alberta is such a bad, a bad place more or less than we should, uh, shut down our economy. But other

00:05:17.180 than that, I think he would have provided a very differentiated viewpoint, uh, relative to the other

00:05:22.640 leaders that were on, on stage tonight. So, okay. Well, I asked for general thoughts. I didn't,

00:05:28.640 uh, I didn't need, uh, every chapter of the book there, Jeff. Oh, thanks. Okay. Uh, Jono, um, I know

00:05:35.820 you're watching this with anticipation. You're obviously close political watcher. Uh, well, give us

00:05:42.080 your, your general thoughts. We're going to, we're going to dive into each of the leaders and some of the

00:05:45.140 major, um, happenings that took place in the debate, but, uh, why don't you give us your general

00:05:50.920 thoughts about, uh, how the evening went? So full disclosure, I did work on Erin O'Toole's,

00:05:56.200 uh, leadership campaign and I am a conservative party member and supporter. That being said,

00:06:00.760 the first observation I had is I really did not like the moderator this evening. I felt, uh,

00:06:05.240 she was, uh, uh, constantly interrupting. I felt that she was quite fly. She asked some very leading

00:06:11.560 questions of both the Bloc Quebecois and conservative leaders, uh, with, uh, uh, with a preconceived

00:06:18.440 notion. It's the type of thing like, well, I'm a lawyer. Okay. So the type of thing in court

00:06:22.520 that you could not ask your own witness, you can't ask your own witness leading questions. So

00:06:26.440 I didn't, I didn't really like the, uh, the, the, the, the debate, uh, that much, uh, the biggest

00:06:31.960 issue though, I really think that they talked about the beginning of leadership and accountability.

00:06:35.720 Okay. Uh, the, uh, big thing I take about this is that I didn't even watch Jimmy Kimmel tonight

00:06:41.080 because the biggest joke was the NDP and the fact they don't know how to pay for their promises.

00:06:45.720 They've never formed a federal government before. And so they can promise these, these,

00:06:49.400 these pie in the sky with no idea how to pay for them, whatever, other than quips,

00:06:55.080 like we're going to tax billionaires. Well, there's very few billionaires in this country.

00:06:58.200 They got a lot of money, but at the same time, that is just a quick design to appeal to their

00:07:03.560 left wing base of voters. Um, I thought that the Bloc Quebeco leader lost a lot of credibility

00:07:10.040 when he talked about, uh, the complaint people about racism, but at the same time he supports

00:07:15.240 these, uh, religious restriction laws in, in Quebec, which don't even satisfy a charter

00:07:20.440 challenge. They've got to invoke the notwithstanding laws. I would say O'Toole had the nicest tie.

00:07:25.320 Uh, but I would say that O'Toole really is looking more and more like a polished leader.

00:07:30.920 Uh, Trudeau was on the defensive the entire time. And I really, he starts to speak fast.

00:07:37.480 Even as maybe as fast as I even speak, but he felt, I really felt that he feels the pressure here.

00:07:44.200 He's been down on the polls the last few weeks and, uh, he began this election. It really reminds

00:07:50.280 me of a couple of governments, David Peterson syndrome in 1990, you call an early election

00:07:54.680 and you end up losing. We don't have a reason for this election. All of the other party leaders

00:07:58.920 brought this up because that's clearly something on the minds of the Canadian voter. Why are we going

00:08:03.480 to an election? We have an international crisis in Afghanistan. And on top of that, we have a COVID

00:08:08.520 pandemic here. There was no need for this election. Yeah. I got to pick up on that, that point there,

00:08:15.880 Jonathan. Um, there was, I felt not a lot of real substance in, in this, uh, debate tonight.

00:08:24.120 Uh, we talked, we talked about affordability, but just the nature of the debate, everyone ends up,

00:08:27.720 uh, giving a few talking points and there's not a lot of, uh, real substantive. The question is,

00:08:32.200 I give them credit, uh, for trying to nail them down on some specific topics, but they all are used

00:08:37.400 to, um, well, there's a saying about question period in Ottawa. There's a reason why it's called

00:08:43.000 question period, not answer period. So they're actually, they're all very well, uh, practiced at,

00:08:49.480 uh, avoiding, you know, anything, anything substantive and being, uh, pinned down. But,

00:08:55.160 you know, one of the, one of the things that, I mean, honestly is a little bit, uh, near and dear to my,

00:09:00.360 my heart that I think a lot of Canadians have really, uh, noticed over the past few weeks is

00:09:05.720 just that tragedy in, in Afghanistan. And what we see is unfolding with the Taliban coming back into

00:09:11.640 power there. Um, you know, Canada and Western Canadians, Albertans, wherever you are on the

00:09:17.080 spectrum, or however you feel about Canada, I think we do honestly share some real common values

00:09:21.720 about who we are as a country, our history, uh, how we are a country that, uh, uh, a number of

00:09:27.960 peoples who have come here to create, uh, better lives. Uh, we share, uh, with the,

00:09:33.320 with each other willingly. Uh, we want the best for people. We are, we are beacon of hope. We've

00:09:38.840 got a proud peacekeeping history as a, as a nation. And yet we, we've got a government

00:09:45.800 in, in this Trudeau government that had fair warning from our, our, uh, uh, you know,

00:09:52.040 intelligence services and from partners around, around the world. And yet it was this government,

00:09:58.680 Trudeau, who is still technically a prime minister right now, who have the ability and the authority

00:10:04.040 to save like literally hundreds of people's lives, Canadians, uh, people who were wanting,

00:10:10.440 wanting to emigrate from, from, uh, Afghanistan, people who have helped our Canadian forces and

00:10:15.800 volunteers and, and contractors over in Afghanistan to help them create a better life as a democratic country.

00:10:21.560 And to provide opportunity for, for women and to work by education for people. And it's absolutely

00:10:28.440 morally abhorrent that we have abandoned those, the people in, in Afghanistan that were, you know,

00:10:36.440 standing in sewage ditches, trying to cling to landing gears on airplanes, trying to flee,

00:10:41.880 um, just what is an absolute tragedy. I mean, we, we saw today that, uh, you know,

00:10:47.320 sorry, Afghanistan, the, the Taliban, they appointed a, uh, uh, you know, a central banker whose, uh,

00:10:52.760 profile picture has them holding a, you know, a big, huge, uh, uh, a weapon, uh, with no actually

00:10:59.320 formal understanding, you know, that country is going to, well, apparently it's a surprise to

00:11:03.800 everyone except Trudeau, what's going to be happening in that country. But the point being that that is,

00:11:09.480 um, that points to the values of our leadership, what this election and what the, the priorities of

00:11:15.480 this, um, prime minister that we do have right now are all about. And that needs to be held accountable.

00:11:22.200 So, you know, even if you're not, um, if you look at any, like exclude everything else, what, what do we

00:11:30.760 actually want in our leaders? No matter where you are in Canada right now, that, that is as much as

00:11:37.720 anything else, something that we as Canadians should think about as we go to the polls on September 20th.

00:11:43.160 Okay. Um, so let's, I don't want to make this all about the moderator, but, uh, we'll just,

00:11:49.080 I think let's just talk about that real quick and get that out of the way. I know Jono had some

00:11:52.680 comments. Uh, she did seem to be particularly partisan. She, at least in the sense that she had a

00:11:57.720 very strong ideological point of view, uh, you know, the preambles of her questions. Uh, she essentially

00:12:04.520 accused Aaron O'Toole of being, uh, a homophobic, uh, climate change conspiracy theorist or that he

00:12:11.560 was harboring them. Uh, those are her words. Um, so she, she certainly didn't seem to have, uh,

00:12:17.000 If I could jump in on that. Well, hold on. I just thought, I'm actually going to come back to you in

00:12:22.200 a second, Jono, because you're the one who started on the moderator. Um, but where I did think she was

00:12:26.600 good, I actually didn't mind her interruptions for the most part. She was, I think, really good at keeping

00:12:32.120 them on time and on topic because you know, you've got five leaders up there and they're talking over

00:12:37.320 each other already quite a bit as it is. Uh, and it is hurting cats. It's, it's a pretty thankless job

00:12:42.040 being the moderator of a debate like that when the stakes are so high. Uh, I think she did a pretty

00:12:46.360 good job of keeping order, keeping them on topic. I think it was just, um, you know, her ideology

00:12:51.960 obviously came through. It's difficult for it to not come through. Uh, but, but also just the,

00:12:56.600 the debate commission, the way it selected these questions was, was ridiculous. These kind of broad themes

00:13:01.560 where we talked only about a couple of things all night. We talked about climate change for

00:13:06.520 roughly a third or a quarter of this. Uh, I mean, obviously, uh, first nations reconciliation,

00:13:11.720 I think absolutely deserve some time, maybe not a quarter because there's a lot of topics to get

00:13:16.600 to. I mean, there wasn't even a, it wasn't a section reserved for Afghanistan. I think there was some,

00:13:20.680 uh, popular outcry. Uh, they got, at least the question slipped into there under one of those topics.

00:13:26.600 Um, but you know, there wasn't any section dedicated to balancing the budget, taxes, finances,

00:13:33.640 uh, the West, none of this. So I, I think there was, it was just about spending more money. That was the

00:13:41.560 answer. Yeah. Well, there was no questions though, or there's at least no segment about balancing the

00:13:46.520 budget or, or a segment about finances there. Uh, Evan Sullivan at the end got in a tiny little

00:13:50.920 question, which Trudeau did not answer about balancing the budget. And everybody took that for

00:13:55.000 granted because there obviously is no plan. It'll do it. It'll balance itself. But, um, uh, I don't

00:13:59.720 know. I think being a moderator of a debate like that is tough. Uh, I'm pretty unforgiving of it. Um,

00:14:05.320 but her ideology aside, I, I think she did a pretty, uh, a good job in a, in a tough position there. Uh,

00:14:11.480 but I think, uh, Jono might disagree with me. Oh, is Jono gone? Well, you know what, I'll just pick

00:14:18.600 up on what you were saying there, Derek, about, uh, you know, one of her questions was, you know,

00:14:23.480 given 25% of Canadians are skeptical about climate change, how do you propose we get to unanimity?

00:14:31.160 And I'm just thinking to myself, okay. Like no matter what you're thinking here, apparently the,

00:14:36.920 the moderator thinks we've got to get to a hundred percent group think on, on a particular topic. I mean,

00:14:44.120 it's kind of a similar, uh, thing regarding, uh, you know, vaccinations. I, I, I, I'm very pro pro

00:14:50.680 vaccination myself, but I also believe it should be a, you know, personal, personal choice, but this

00:14:55.880 is why we live in a free country where people can make these choices and that's, that's gotta be

00:15:00.760 respected. I think that we are seeing, you know, in all of the, the commentary that we're hearing from

00:15:05.800 the leaders tonight, you know, bigger programs, more spending, more controls, more, more, more, more,

00:15:11.720 more, all across the board. And I think actually the APTN, um, uh, questionnaire was kind of

00:15:18.200 interesting in, in her comments about holding true Trudeau to account on, on, uh, providing resources

00:15:23.960 for first nations and the reserves, how, you know, yeah, there's been more spending. There's a whole,

00:15:30.200 there's two big new departments on to deal with first nations, but, and, and, and trying to help the

00:15:36.360 first nations, but none of it actually gets down to the, to the reserve. You know, it just results in

00:15:43.000 more bureaucracy, more programs. So, and Trudeau even. So I want to run through,

00:15:49.160 so I want to run through, uh, the different leaders on the stage here. Um, actually, maybe we will

00:15:54.680 start first, uh, you, you had mentioned this. Well, we'll start before we go through the leaders.

00:15:59.000 Let's start with the leader who was not there. Uh, Maxime Bernier, leader of the People's Party of Canada,

00:16:04.040 uh, not invited by the federal government's debate commission. Um, I mean, they had a certain set of

00:16:11.240 criteria about how to get in, but he did not meet apparently at first. Uh, he had to have an average

00:16:16.120 of 4% in the polls to qualify to get in. And, uh, apparently he was just below that when they were

00:16:22.840 doing their polling average, but he has since then far, far exceeded, uh, the polling requirements to get

00:16:27.880 in. Uh, ECOS today had him at 11. Main Street, I think has gone around nine. Uh, either way,

00:16:33.560 he is, uh, the very clear fourth party right now, well ahead of the Greens. Oh, Corey Morgan has

00:16:39.960 decided to pop out of his hole. Uh, okay. Well, uh, we're going to go to Corey in a second here,

00:16:45.480 but we're going to go through each of the leaders. Uh, but right now we're going through, uh, Maxime

00:16:49.480 Bernier who was not invited. Uh, he's now well ahead of the polls that are required for him to get in,

00:16:54.760 uh, in fourth place. Uh, as I said, uh, ECOS having 11 has him right, right on the tail of the NDP,

00:17:00.440 which is at 15. I mean, just another four points and he'd be tied for third. Um, I think it was a

00:17:06.600 shame that he was not there. Uh, even if you don't like what he has to say, at least they would have

00:17:10.920 added some variety and some, uh, I think it was such a polarized and, uh, loud debate for five leaders

00:17:20.760 who seem to more or less agree on all the big questions. The only debate seemed to be on, uh,

00:17:27.560 some rather marginal differences, disagreements on the margins about how to implement some of

00:17:32.680 these big ideas, which they all agree with. Um, I think it would have really added some spice,

00:17:37.480 uh, if we had Bernier on the stage. Um, unfortunately he wasn't, but let's, so let's go to, uh, Corey,

00:17:44.120 uh, just your, your thoughts on, um, you know, Bernier's exclusion from the debate and what, what it

00:17:49.640 might've meant, uh, for him to have been involved. Well, it would have brought a unique perspective

00:17:56.120 in. I mean, uh, I think most of what this debate ended up coming out about was how the leaders were

00:18:00.520 presenting themselves. I didn't see much new in policy or approaches. It was all pretty predictable

00:18:04.760 out of them. We heard everything we'd expect to hear from them. Uh, Bernier would have brought in a,

00:18:10.360 I mean, one voice for smaller government, one voice, uh, unapologetically speaking against

00:18:15.880 restrictions and lockdowns, whether people agree with it or not, because there was no real

00:18:20.200 debate on any of that. And, uh, yeah, it was, it was a loss not to have that voice, whether one

00:18:25.400 agrees with it or not. I mean, Annamie Paul, uh, did what she could, but realistically she's,

00:18:30.200 she's not representing much. It's a party in shambles and, and that spot would have been better

00:18:34.840 held by Bernier. Well, I would tend to agree with Corey there because, uh, I have a really difficult

00:18:40.760 time. The fact that they allowed the green party, which they should, but then again, they,

00:18:45.000 they exclude Bernie and I'm not a Bernie supporter. So why did they exclude him? He's

00:18:49.320 running a full slate of candidates just like the green party. Yeah. Okay. Well, um, I want to go

00:18:56.920 through each of the leaders who were at the debate. Uh, I've got fairly extensive notes on everyone,

00:19:01.240 except for Trudeau. I mean, I, I just found that very little of Trudeau stuck out. Uh, the main note

00:19:09.080 I've got for him on my, uh, in my, in my notepad here is that he, uh, he was asked about why we're

00:19:14.920 having an election right now when all of the parties in the house of commons are supporting

00:19:19.000 him. There's, he has no question about holding the confidence of the house of commons. He can

00:19:22.040 continue to govern for a full four years, stick to the fixed election date, which is established

00:19:25.880 by law. Um, he was asked why, and he just could not answer that question. That's actually the biggest

00:19:31.640 question he has to answer. That's a, I mean, uh, that's the question every leader who call every

00:19:39.480 premier, every prime minister that calls an early election needs to be able to answer on the very

00:19:44.680 first day of the election. Why are we having an election? And if that answer is not a good

00:19:49.560 and compelling answer, at least enough to make people forget about it, they get into trouble.

00:19:55.160 And, uh, I mean, you know, in my experience, uh, and John, are you in that election too?

00:20:00.600 Uh, Jim Prentice tried to frame a question about why we're having an early election in Alberta.

00:20:05.640 At least he had an answer and it was certainly a lot more compelling than Justin Trudeau's,

00:20:09.320 but it was still not a good answer. And he paid a big price for that because we're still talking

00:20:12.760 about this early election come debate day and we're on debate day now, and we're still talking

00:20:18.200 about having an early election. Justin Trudeau was not able to answer that. Um, but otherwise he,

00:20:23.720 he seemed defensive, angry, both defensive and offensive. Um, but flailing around

00:20:30.440 trying to land, uh, trying to land a punch because he's behind in polls. Uh, I mean,

00:20:35.240 under the current vote, he probably quite possibly still continues as prime minister

00:20:39.480 of a minority government. Um, but I, I, I'd like to go to each of your thoughts

00:20:44.280 about how Justin Trudeau in particular performed in the debate. Uh, let's go to Jeff.

00:20:49.400 Yeah. Well, I mean, he, he was a little bit of a little bit feisty. He's got a lot to answer for.

00:20:55.560 He's got a lot of, um, words and, and show, uh, uh, as Singh pointed out that he likes to, uh,

00:21:04.920 you know, voice, he says a lot of things, he performs, uh, a lot, but at the end of the day,

00:21:11.000 just like what that, uh, APTN, uh, interviewer stated, you're, you're spending a bunch of money.

00:21:17.320 You're the bureaucracy is growing like crazy. So maybe that's his job creation program is more

00:21:23.080 bureaucrats, but, uh, besides that there's little to show on the ground. And when you want to talk

00:21:29.320 about affordability is he repeated over a few times about, you know, I've got your back. Well, I think

00:21:36.280 a lot of Canadians feel like that's a knife in their back when they start looking at their utility bills

00:21:40.920 and looking at what the cost of food is in, in their homes. And you don't, I think that some of

00:21:48.680 the leaders really could have, uh, really, uh, gone after him more forcefully than that. I mean,

00:21:55.000 there was the, the, the question from the senior, uh, on about, you know, affordability and for seniors.

00:22:01.880 And, you know, it was basically just an answer of, we've got a variety, uh, a grab bag of, you know,

00:22:08.840 more money to, to, to give to seniors. I think really when you're a senior and you're talking

00:22:14.200 about affordability, it, it, it really is things like your, your food, your food bill, your utility

00:22:19.640 bill, uh, the cost of gas and, and a lot of those, um, issues. And those affordability issues are

00:22:27.720 caused by the very government and they're caused by the, like the Trudeau who's, who's standing up

00:22:32.200 there, um, trying to speak about affordability and saying, he's got your back. No, he doesn't.

00:22:37.080 Okay. Um, John, do you think, um, like Trudeau's, I wouldn't say Trudeau's behind. He is technically

00:22:45.240 behind one or two maximum three points, depending on which poll you look at. Uh, although his vote is

00:22:50.680 probably more efficient because it's, um, not hyper concentrated like the conservative party vote

00:22:56.360 at least was in the West. Um, so we, you know, even if he was to get elected, even with a minority,

00:23:03.160 without the most seats, the minority, he might still continue as prime minister, but

00:23:06.520 either way he's, he is behind and, uh, his, you know, his visions of, um, you know, when the majority

00:23:14.520 government was a twinkle in his eye, when he called this election, that seems to be gone. Um, do you think

00:23:19.560 he did what he had to do to, uh, to try and make up that ground, uh, consolidate the NDP's, uh, vote,

00:23:26.920 you know, that kind of progressive leftist vote behind him and try to punch down the conservatives

00:23:31.000 a bit? No, I really don't actually. He was on the defense of the entire, the entire evening. Uh,

00:23:36.760 he seemed very, very flustered, very, very irritating. 2015, the liberals ran a quackerjack campaign.

00:23:42.360 None of us here voted for them, but they ran a great campaign. They even elected two seats in

00:23:46.120 Calgary for the first time in four years. Uh, 20, 2019, it was okay. This time their campaign

00:23:51.640 is in the toilet. They're chasing their tail the entire time. It reminds me of a government

00:23:56.120 that I was a part of when many of us, including me told the leader not to call an early election.

00:24:01.080 And then I drove down from Edmonton. I had knocked on the doors of all of the supporters

00:24:04.840 and they said, why are you calling an early election? You're chasing your tail the entire time.

00:24:09.720 It's also very interesting though, that Trudeau himself has, has, has lamented, you know,

00:24:13.880 I might, uh, call another election in 18 months. Well, you know, why are we, why are we doing this?

00:24:19.080 There's no purpose for this election. The interesting time though, I just want to address

00:24:23.800 one other comment that you had made, Derek. If, uh, in past elections, conservatives had to be at

00:24:29.800 least five points up because the, the vote is so consolidated. Alberta, Saskatchewan, a bit of

00:24:34.840 Manitoba, Eastern BC. This time though, O'Toole's numbers are actually down a bit in Alberta. Uh,

00:24:40.520 we can talk about that later. Uh, but they're up a bit in Ontario. The other thing is that I,

00:24:45.320 I've always believed that conservatives have a higher voter turnout. They've had the, the,

00:24:49.640 some of the best data, the best voting machine, the best get out the vote, uh, programs. And I

00:24:54.840 do think that conservative supporters are a little bit more motivated. Governments aren't elected.

00:24:59.640 They are unelected. And in this particular instance, the people that want Trudeau gone are

00:25:05.000 going to be more motivated to vote than the people that want to stay for a third term.

00:25:10.520 Yeah. Uh, okay. Let's turn towards conservative leader, Aaron O'Toole. Um, I mean, uh, in the

00:25:17.080 absence of having Bernier on stage, you got to look the conservative a bit. Uh, but I, you know,

00:25:22.520 Justin Trudeau kept on repeating, uh, I can't emphasize how big the differences are between us.

00:25:27.560 You need to make the right choice. These parties are so different. Um, and Aaron O'Toole's strategy

00:25:34.040 seems very deliberately to be the polar opposite of that. Try to minimize the differences that,

00:25:39.960 you know, you can have essentially more or less the same government, but, uh, you can have a more

00:25:47.640 competent and less corrupt and less narcissistic person leading it, trying to really play down

00:25:53.080 those differences. Um, I mean, the first question that went to Aaron O'Toole from the moderator,

00:25:58.200 uh, which I specifically pointed out, essentially said, uh, you know,

00:26:03.560 you've got all these, uh, cracker jacks in your party, uh, homophobes and people who are climate

00:26:09.560 conspiracists, uh, climate theory, conspiracists, uh, her terms, um, who's driving the bus and, uh,

00:26:17.400 is it you or the caucus? And Aaron O'Toole, uh, said very pointedly, I'm driving the bus saying,

00:26:23.800 forget those guys. They're essentially an electoral college. And he's not incorrect. That's the way the

00:26:28.760 system works right now. The MPs, the caucus have remarkably little power in our system of

00:26:33.000 government right now. So he wasn't lying when he said that, but he was going to pains to say,

00:26:37.400 he is the conservative party. Now he's saying, I am the new leader of the new conservative

00:26:41.800 party trying to put a different coat of paint on things. Um, he went to pains to talk about his,

00:26:48.920 uh, I'll use his terms, climate pricing saying, I am going to put a price on climate change, et cetera.

00:26:55.400 He did not call it a carbon tax. He has never called his carbon tax a carbon tax.

00:26:59.880 He didn't call it here, probably aware that calling it that is probably a bridge too far for supporters,

00:27:05.000 uh, with his right flank already under significant fire from, uh, Bernier and the PPC. Um,

00:27:11.000 what I really wanted to see, and, uh, well, I will talk a little bit about Blanchet in a bit.

00:27:15.000 He had one really great moment and Blanchet promised he would do this in the French debate.

00:27:19.720 In the French debate, apparently, uh, because I don't speak it, uh, Blanchet, uh, O'Toole apparently,

00:27:26.600 uh, said that, uh, there should be no pipelines through Quebec. And he apparently said that in

00:27:32.280 French. Um, taking translations at their word for it here. Um, and, uh, that night during the French

00:27:40.120 debate Blanchet said, are you going to say that same sentence in English? And, uh, tonight Blanchet had

00:27:50.120 quite a moment, a moment. And he said, uh, you know, in the French debate, you said that there

00:27:54.840 should be no pipelines in Quebec. Will you repeat it right now in English? Uh, O'Toole did not reply.

00:28:01.160 He just kind of smiled, played with the button on his jacket. And that was that, uh, the moderators let

00:28:06.440 him go because it wasn't his turn to speak anyway, but he probably could have intervened if he wanted

00:28:09.800 to. Uh, that was a very interesting moment for me. Um, and Blanchet was playing, um, again, I don't

00:28:16.920 want to make this too much about Blanchet, but, uh, that stood out as a very weak point, probably the

00:28:21.880 weakest point for O'Toole in the debate. Uh, that's kind of my summation, but, uh, why don't we go, uh,

00:28:27.160 back to you, Jeff, uh, about how, how you thought O'Toole did this evening?

00:28:31.720 Yeah, you know, I, I don't, I didn't see any big moments. In fact, actually, uh, if, if I actually

00:28:39.560 had, I, I think the, the biggest moment of the debate was, was probably that Merrick fellow,

00:28:45.320 uh, the 18 year old kid who was asking about, uh, reconciliation. So it, it's never a good thing

00:28:51.160 when you've got a regular 18 year old kid citizen who, at least in my mind had the, had the high

00:28:58.680 point in, in the debate and, and held the leaders to account. But, you know, I will just kind of go

00:29:04.600 back to a more of an overall political strategy type of perspective, uh, for O'Toole. It's clearly

00:29:10.600 they're running a different kind of a campaign versus, uh, the sheer campaign, uh, a couple of

00:29:15.000 years ago, you know, sheer, they were running up the score in lots of constituencies or ridings

00:29:20.440 where they were, you know, great. You went from 75% to 80% or 60% to 70%. It doesn't matter. You're

00:29:27.880 going to win, but you got to go and win a bunch of those tough ridings in Ontario. So they've taken

00:29:33.800 away all of the objections, uh, that have typically been thrown at the conservative party. Um, I'll say,

00:29:40.920 these are politicians that we're talking about. So sometimes their promises don't always,

00:29:44.600 aren't always followed through. I think that there is going to be, I am confident that the

00:29:49.000 conservative party would definitely be much better than this liberal, liberal government on a number

00:29:53.880 of, on a number of fronts, uh, as, as a government, that being said, I think it's also very clear we're

00:29:58.840 going to be in a minority government, but that absolutely, but at least you would, you would get

00:30:02.840 a much better government than what we're, what we're facing, what we're faced with today. Um, so on items

00:30:08.360 like, uh, you know, kind of the flop, the flip-flop that we saw from O'Toole, or if you want to call it a

00:30:13.720 clarification, uh, but it probably more like a flip-flop on, on the gun issue, uh, basically

00:30:19.800 accepting Trudeau's position, you know, uh, call it a levy, a fee or a tax. It's a tax is a tax is a tax

00:30:26.280 at the end of the day. And it's, it, it is a, it is a type of carbon tax, uh, that he's basically backing.

00:30:32.600 So, you know, he's taken away a lot of that ammunition from, um, his opponents, particularly the

00:30:39.080 liberals. And so I see the strategic value of that take away the opposition square, the elections,

00:30:45.800 like focus it on, on Trudeau and that people are getting tired of, of Trudeau as the leader.

00:30:51.320 They're getting tired of the, of the empty words. And so, uh, and people are maybe looking for a bit

00:30:57.880 of a change, uh, like this, this could be a bit of a, uh, has the opportunity to at least be a bit of a

00:31:05.160 change election. And that's really what the, in my view, what the conservative party, uh, platform

00:31:10.440 is, is about. I mean, I'll, I'll get on my hobby horse. I think they should be nailing, um, uh, Trudeau

00:31:16.040 and the liberal government on, on the values of Canadians and how they walked away from that,

00:31:21.320 at least in, as shown very bluntly in, in Canada's, um, actions in, or lack of action in Afghanistan.

00:31:28.200 But anyways,

00:31:29.240 Okay. Uh, we'll, we'll, we'll try to keep it tighter here. Cause we want to get through,

00:31:35.480 uh, through everything before we go on too long. Uh, quickly, um, Jonathan, uh, how do you think,

00:31:42.360 uh, O'Toole came out tonight? Do you think he achieved what he needed to achieve?

00:31:45.160 Uh, the biggest thing O'Toole needs to achieve is he needs to show stability and confidence. I think

00:31:50.760 he did both of those things very well. He came across as a very polished debater, uh, his cadence,

00:31:57.160 his confidence, uh, and just his air were all better than Trudeau's. And that is what he had to

00:32:03.800 do. People know who Justin Trudeau is. People don't know Aaron O'Toole that well. So he has to

00:32:09.320 do that much better in the debate. And while there was no knockout punch, the only one in a Canadian

00:32:15.320 prime ministerial debate I can recall is in 1984 when, uh, Mulroney knocked Turner out on his, on,

00:32:21.080 on totally knocked him out. Uh, there wasn't a knockout punch, but I think O'Toole needed to do

00:32:27.480 what he needed, what he was doing to solidify the vote that he had and perhaps expand it further.

00:32:33.960 Either way here though, we're in a minority government situation. We're going to be having

00:32:37.640 these, these discussions in 18 to 24 months again. Okay. Yeah. I want to say one thing too,

00:32:43.160 you know, we've seen just a little bit of decrease in the momentum of the conservative party here, I think,

00:32:48.280 in the last handful of days. And if it seems to be somewhat related to the, to the gun issue being

00:32:54.040 brought up, I'm not actually commenting on the flip flop or otherwise, it just seems to be come up. And

00:32:58.520 so I have to say, I was actually a little surprised that it, uh, it wasn't brought up more against O'Toole

00:33:04.280 tonight. So I think that actually worked in, you know, tools favor. And I'd agree with Jonathan that he,

00:33:08.760 he put in a, uh, composed, um, polished performance. He is a very accomplished individual himself.

00:33:16.120 He's very smart. He's very disciplined. And, you know, that's, I think, uh, a great credit to him

00:33:21.960 as a leader and, and potentially the next prime minister of this, of this country. So.

00:33:25.880 Okay. Um, all right. So as I said, we're going to try and keep it, uh, quick here so we can get

00:33:31.880 through in relatively, uh, timely fashion. Uh, Blanchette, um, seemed to give a, uh, don't give an F

00:33:41.720 vibe the entire debate. He obviously has the lowest stakes. Um, I don't think many, uh, unilingual

00:33:48.680 anglophones were, uh, changing their, uh, their vote tonight about if they're going to vote for the

00:33:54.680 Bloc Québécois or not. Uh, so this is really just, uh, he's kind of playing to the home crowd in this

00:34:00.040 sense. It's almost like an away game. You know, this is like Calgary playing in Montreal. Uh, you get

00:34:06.120 to show off, uh, what you're doing away. And so in that sense, you know, he was very antagonistic,

00:34:12.840 uh, towards English Canada, uh, very, uh, you know, talked about, he said, uh, the Bloc would, um,

00:34:20.120 put a cap on, uh, Western energy production. I hadn't actually heard that before. I don't

00:34:25.080 know if that was a policy that he's had yet or not, uh, but it was absolutely flabbergasting for, uh,

00:34:31.640 a leader that claims to represent Quebec, which takes an incredible amount of wealth from

00:34:35.880 Western Canadians on a daily basis to fund its operations, uh, would say so, but not,

00:34:41.880 not altogether surprising from what we know. Uh, he did have, he had a great line. He says, uh,

00:34:46.200 I'm not that interested in, uh, running Canada, uh, but let me, uh, tell you why I should be at this

00:34:51.640 debate anyway. Uh, it was, it was kind of a funny line, but he, I thought he made actually a fairly

00:34:57.640 compelling argument, uh, about why, at least from the perspective of a Quebec nationalist, why the Bloc Québécois

00:35:04.200 should hold the balance of power. He says, uh, you know, some of these parties are bad. Some of them

00:35:11.400 are slightly less bad and you know, which care, you know, the characters know who they are on the stage

00:35:15.080 here. Uh, but none of them deserve a majority. They need a watchdog and it'll be an advantageous

00:35:21.560 position for the Bloc Québécois to hold the balance of power and be the watchdog on, uh, the big parties

00:35:27.400 forming government to parliament. And I thought that was actually, uh, a fair, a pretty salient

00:35:32.280 argument about why the Bloc Québécois, uh, from the perspective of a Quebecer, uh, is actually a very

00:35:37.800 good option, regardless of what side of the political spectrum you're, you're on. Um, but

00:35:43.720 what really stood out for, uh, with the bullshit for me was how every question was about Quebec. Uh,

00:35:49.400 you know, we had this entire segment about first nations reconciliation. And essentially,

00:35:53.640 his answer to them all was, yes, uh, first nations have been mistreated, but you know,

00:35:57.640 who else has been mistreated? The Quebec nation. Um, uh, yes, first nations didn't sign, uh, treaties,

00:36:05.320 uh, giving up their sovereignty. And you know, who else didn't sign a treaty giving up their sovereignty?

00:36:09.320 The Quebec nation. Everything was about him. Everything was about Quebec. And it, it got almost,

00:36:15.400 uh, sad comical, uh, at a time. It's almost funny if it wasn't such a serious topic. Um, but, uh,

00:36:23.000 uh, I'll, I'll, uh, go to, um, yeah. Sorry, Jonathan. Okay. We'll go to Jeff. Yeah.

00:36:31.320 Jeff is where we're going to go. Jeff, chop it a bit. So you go, Jeff.

00:36:34.280 Jeff. Yeah. You know, just regarding Blanchette, I, I actually thought one of his,

00:36:39.000 his best answers tonight was when, um, uh, was it Rose, Rosie Barton was, uh, trying to, to catch him on

00:36:45.480 the seniors funding. And, you know, he kind of started to give an answer and she kind of like doubled down on,

00:36:52.040 on her question. And, you know, he, he kind of paused a little bit and thought, you know, um, no,

00:36:59.480 I thought there was a bit of a touch of emotion there. And he talked about how these people have,

00:37:03.400 that have been working their entire lives. Why shouldn't they also get, uh, the benefit of that?

00:37:08.280 I guess the nature of the question was why should you give all seniors, uh, money instead of only,

00:37:12.680 uh, say some, those who actually need it themselves. And, you know, his point was like, you know,

00:37:17.400 these people have worked hard and contributed and they need it. So I actually thought that that was

00:37:22.280 pretty interesting, but you know, just to kind of pick up on how you talked about putting a cap

00:37:26.920 on Western energy production, he's clearly over and over and over always answers in whatever is in

00:37:32.600 Quebec's best interest. And he'll take money from anywhere and anyone across, across Canada to do it.

00:37:38.040 And it's never enough, you know, just more and more and more, but at the same time, and, and,

00:37:42.920 you know, Quebec rights expect, you know, uh, respect our nation, respect our province,

00:37:48.040 everyone else, but out, uh, but you know what you can't produce energy. And I, and I'm going to be

00:37:54.120 totally on board in, in supporting, uh, whoever is, if it's a liberal or, or got to help us, uh, an NDP

00:38:00.840 government, uh, you know, stop the economy, uh, from growing in, and in Western Canada, that's just

00:38:07.880 quite, quite fine by him to, to support. So it's quite a bit of hypocrisy, uh, there on his part.

00:38:14.200 And, and also let's just be frank double down here. He's got a couple of refineries in, in Quebec that

00:38:18.680 they just, they seem quite fine, you know, taking oil in from, from, uh, Saudi Arabia. So anyway,

00:38:25.880 but I will say the only other comment I'd have is, um, I don't know if, uh, you guys might remember,

00:38:31.640 there was a movie back in the early nineties with Kevin Klein that was called Dave. And it's about the,

00:38:37.160 uh, uh, a guy, the, the actual president dies. And then they, they find this like a community,

00:38:43.400 uh, uh, job finder guy, a job search guy, they bring him in and install him as president.

00:38:48.600 Cause he's got a remarkable resemblance to the actual president. And he actually turns into

00:38:52.440 the, this nice kind of relatable guy that, that, uh, comes in and, and, uh, acts as president.

00:38:59.480 And I sort of had almost a little bit of that feeling tonight, but again, that's when you don't

00:39:04.200 really have much on the table, you get to be a little more just natural and, and, uh, less caring.

00:39:10.840 So, um, okay. Uh, Jonathan, uh, do you, uh, Yves Blanchet, uh, has he got your vote?

00:39:20.760 You gotta back the block.

00:39:21.640 Well, uh, first off I live in Alberta, so I have no option to vote for the block, but

00:39:26.360 I will just offer this, this comment. Who could argue that the block Quebecois has not been successful

00:39:32.200 in their mandate over the last almost 30 years since Bouchard broke through with 52 seats in

00:39:39.080 the 93 election, formed the official opposition. They've been very, very effective in turning the

00:39:43.720 agenda to Quebec and raising the specter of Quebec separatism. And as a result, we see where all the

00:39:50.360 transfer payments go. The, the, so I'll give Blanchet some credit. He's breathed new life into it.

00:39:55.240 He did quite well in the 2019 election. I will give him also credit that his English has improved

00:39:59.880 as English is sure a heck of a lot better than my French's. Uh, but the, uh, uh, the, the blatant

00:40:05.560 hypocrisy, he starts talking about, oh, we don't, we want to put caps on the oil sands. Uh, listen,

00:40:10.840 the amount of oil that is being imported from, um, politically unstable jurisdictions,

00:40:17.480 transported across the world when we have a politically stable supply of energy in Western Canada with high

00:40:25.720 environmental standards, high social standards, again, in the same country. Why are you opposed

00:40:31.720 to these pipelines? And instead you're, you're, uh, incurring more fossil fuels, more emissions

00:40:36.840 to bring the energy from across the world. It makes no sense. Okay. Um, so we're going to go to

00:40:47.880 discuss Jagmeet Singh and, uh, there was some other lady on the stage. Uh, I think she was the independent

00:40:53.400 candidate for, uh, Toronto, Toronto Centre or something. She, uh, she was going on about the

00:40:59.000 environment or something. I'm not really sure who she was. Uh, I think she had one of those Seinfeld

00:41:04.200 puffy pirate shirts on, uh, but I couldn't quite tell. Um, Jagmeet Singh, I think, uh, if he's your cup of tea,

00:41:11.880 I think comported himself well. Uh, I mean, he, the man knows how to wear a suit. Uh, I think he,

00:41:19.160 I mean, his answer to everything was spend. Um, I, I think he got it. It was unremarkable. I don't

00:41:26.120 think he's really, I don't think he's going to really break through too well, but I don't think

00:41:29.560 he made any big mistakes. I think he more or less held his ground fairly well. Um, and certainly stood

00:41:37.240 up more than who that lady from Toronto, uh, running for MP somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Um,

00:41:48.760 just regarding, and, and Marie Paul, just, just briefly really, uh, other than a little bit on

00:41:55.800 the environment, the only, her only answer was let's all just work together. We just need to work

00:42:01.400 together. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was totally, she's going to lose her seats. Elizabeth may might

00:42:11.320 keep hers, but this is, this election is going to be a big down draft for the, the green party. That's,

00:42:17.640 that's just the bottom line there. Um, but besides I don't understand now saying, obviously his answer

00:42:23.880 is just spend more money on, on everything across the board. You can't have a, there's not a government

00:42:28.520 program or, uh, or a program you can invent that you couldn't spend more money on. And of course,

00:42:34.360 for Canadians across the board, it doesn't matter your economic situation in life. Uh,

00:42:39.960 everyone's going to get hit at, at the end of the day. Uh, so that, that it's just completely

00:42:45.240 unfeasible. But the other, the other thing that really struck me through the debate is he has a nice

00:42:50.280 way about him in, in communicating and, you know, a bit of a smile and, you know, coming from the old wild

00:42:55.720 Rose days, Danielle Smith used to be very good at this too. She could, she could deliver, uh,

00:43:01.560 tough news or a tough line or a tough bit of love. But as she said, if you just do it with a smile on

00:43:06.840 your face, people think it's kind of okay. And, you know, Singh kind of has that ability to do something

00:43:13.880 very similar on, on that front. But when you actually listen to his words, and if you took away the,

00:43:19.880 the voice and the picture and you read his words, he really acknowledges, and I think stokes a lot of

00:43:29.880 fear and anxiety, uh, for people in, in society. And I think that is actually ultimately kind of a bit

00:43:42.360 of a dangerous, dangerous quality, something I was just picking up on. I mean, you ask him a question and,

00:43:48.040 you know, he's empathetic and he acknowledges, and then he, he, um, accentuates whatever, whatever the,

00:43:55.000 the, the, the thing that's driving the, that fear or that anxiety of, of someone. And that,

00:44:03.560 um, it, it, it, it acknowledges it rather than, um, and doubles down on it. And I think that's,

00:44:11.720 it was just very apparent to me that it's something that contributes to the division in society rather

00:44:19.080 than, you know, let's sit down and have approaching something more of a, let's sit down and deal with

00:44:24.920 the issue. It, it's accentuating, uh, those fearful feelings. And so that I, I hadn't ever really,

00:44:33.720 I, I don't honestly listen to sing very often, uh, admittedly, but that was something that really

00:44:39.240 kind of struck me tonight when, so take away the picture and, and the smile and, and you think

00:44:44.440 about the transcript and you, you can see that, uh, the politics of fear, anxiety, and division really

00:44:51.000 kind of coming out in his words actually. Uh, Jonathan, uh, do you think that, uh, Jagmeet Singh

00:44:59.560 made up any ground tonight? Uh, or, or how do you think he, uh, comported himself?

00:45:05.240 So I've really watched Jagmeet Singh and listen, there is nothing you can do to make me vote NDP.

00:45:10.680 Okay. But I'm going to say something nice about him. He, uh, has really improved as a leader. He's a,

00:45:16.760 he, he articulates his image, his, his point, he speaks to his base. Um, he's well, uh, well

00:45:23.000 learned. He's a smart guy. Okay. Uh, he obviously had, uh, a good background in the Ontario legislature

00:45:28.840 as an MPP. The, the, the thing with the problem that he has is that Trudeau has gone so far to the

00:45:35.720 left. How does he define himself as different from Trudeau when he has been, uh, propping up the

00:45:41.880 government on numerous, on numerous occasions. Uh, the, uh, uh, the liberal party today is much

00:45:49.080 different from the liberal party of the 1990s. Sure. Under Chrétien and Martin, you got some

00:45:53.400 annoying things like a billion dollar gun boondoggles, uh, that, uh, no one on this podcast

00:45:59.800 would support. Uh, but at the same time, you also got balanced budgets. You got tax cuts. They reduced

00:46:04.760 capital gains tax. Uh, the, uh, they championed our energy, energy sector. Uh, they brought it,

00:46:10.600 uh, the, uh, brought in a international free trade agreement. Uh, I don't see any of this type

00:46:16.680 under Trudeau. It's, it is a very, very different liberal party, much like his father. He has reached

00:46:22.840 as far to the left as he can, alienated Western Canada. The question is how does Jagmeet Singh define

00:46:30.600 himself when Trudeau has been eating his leftist lunch the last few years?

00:46:36.520 All right. Uh, well, I think we'll wrap it up there. It's already been a long evening. This broadcast

00:46:41.320 is, uh, God knows how long it's gone. It's been going on since the, the leaders debate, uh, started.

00:46:46.600 Uh, I want to thank you both, uh, Jonathan Dennis and, uh, Jeff Calloway for joining me this evening.

00:46:52.200 And all of you who have been watching, uh, some of you have stayed with us. Some of you have not,

00:46:56.840 uh, but it's been a long, long broadcast. Uh, I want to thank you all for, uh, for joining us. If

00:47:02.040 you're not yet a member of the Western standard, go to Westernonline.com and click on membership.

00:47:06.280 You could try it free for 15 days. Uh, you can see if you'll like it. Uh, if not, well, then I'm sad.

00:47:13.240 Uh, thank you all very much for, uh, joining us this evening and God bless. Thank you. Thank you.

00:47:26.840 Thank you.

Western Standard - September 10, 2021

2021 Federal Leaders Debate： Post Debate Analysis

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