In this episode, we discuss the case of Daniel Senecal, who was denied a transfer to a women's jail because he identifies as transgender. He was convicted of sexually assaulting a toddler, but was denied the transfer because he identified as a woman.
00:03:37.600And I've just encountered that same scenario over the years.
00:03:42.480But yes, so Ontario has a transgender policy.
00:03:47.520And it's already allowed dangerous sex offenders who identify as trans into women's jails.
00:03:53.140There was just recently a case with Charles Wadling Leeson.
00:03:57.820And he's convicted of sexually assaulting a teaching assistant at Met University in Toronto.
00:04:03.900And he was transferred to a woman's jail, Vanier for women in Milton, Ontario.
00:04:08.540And he was only moved back to the men's jail after engaging in inappropriate behavior that put women at risk.
00:04:16.300There's also Patrick Parasol, a convicted sex offender, pathological liar.
00:04:21.480He was also transferred to a woman's jail, Vanier again, I believe.
00:04:26.020And he was transferred back to the men's custody once they realized the danger he posed to the incarcerated women there.
00:04:33.320There's also, like, Yostin Marullo, who violently sexually assaulted and murdered a woman in Toronto.
00:04:45.640And he was actually transferred to a woman's jail as well.
00:04:49.400And he, when he was going through his trial, he didn't want the judge to know that he was identifying as a woman and was going by she, her pronouns and was in a woman's jail.
00:04:59.760So there are tons and tons of cases of this happening in our jails and also in our prisons.
00:05:05.820The difference with Daniel is that his case was denied up front, but that's because the public was watching.
00:05:13.740With the other cases, the public was not aware and only became aware after they were transferred back to the men's jails.
00:05:21.900Something interesting that I read in the news article that just came out about Daniel was that he was wearing green.
00:05:29.120So green is institutional clothing that's issued to women.
00:05:35.020So at Daniel's last court appearance, he was wearing female clothing.
00:05:39.800So he's still actively showing, presenting himself that he's a woman, which I'm not surprised by at the least.
00:05:49.840And you said that because Daniel was wearing green at the court appearance, he's still trying to identify as that.
00:05:57.280How likely is it, do you think, that Daniel Senegal is going to be pushing to be transferred to a women's jail once he is charged federally?
00:06:08.220So he actually still has recourse that he can pursue for this denial in the women's jail.
00:07:24.340So my fingers are crossed that they continue to deny his transfer requests.
00:07:29.020And in situations where men were put into women's prison while you were incarcerated, how did that impact the general body within these prisons?
00:08:02.980And also it causes lateral violence between the women because it pits women against each other.
00:08:08.980There's a lot of men in there that basically will gain sexual favors from the women in exchange for canteen or they have their like the women fighting the other women.
00:08:23.700And women don't want to tell because they don't want to be labeled a rat or they're scared of retaliation.
00:08:30.080There have been pregnancies, there's been abortions, there's been criminal harassment, there has been all sorts of different dynamics in that prison and in these jails because they have been transferred into that environment.
00:08:47.460And what would you feel is an adequate solution or way to deal with this problem of men identifying as female and transferring into women's prisons?
00:09:01.580So there is space available in the men's prisons across Canada, like there are unused pods, wings and ranges where they could tailor those ranges and pods to the unique needs of those who identify as women.
00:09:20.260And they could be safely incarcerated there where they will still have access to all the amenities of that men's prison, but they won't gain access to women or to the children that are living in the women's prisons because women's prisons have a mother child program where your child four years and under can live there full time.
00:09:41.580So I think a safe alternative would be to have these trans areas, which there are prisons in the West that do have trans ranges already.
00:09:56.840So I don't see why we can't continue that.
00:10:02.560Is there anything else you feel that could sort of mitigate these problems going forward?
00:10:07.980I know the federal government has been talking about altering bail legislation.
00:10:12.800Do you think that would help with this problem?
00:10:16.800I'm not sure how that would help with the problem because if they're in, they're going to want to be in women's prisons, right?
00:10:29.160Like they, and a lot of the, what I find federally, of course, is that there are a lot of men who can't get parole or who have been in for decades and decades and aren't getting out.
00:10:41.040So now their recourse is to go to a woman's prison where they have an easier time.
00:10:46.040Um, they don't have to worry about, um, as much violence.
00:10:52.620Um, and actually something that I, uh, was told a long time ago when I was in jail and this reminds me of this.
00:11:01.120Um, I was speaking to someone who was in protective custody and I was like, well, why are you in PC and not GP?
00:11:07.360And they said, why would I be a peasant among Kings when I can be a King among peasants?
00:11:13.300And that is the same scenario that we have here.
00:11:16.920Why would these men who are convicted of sex crimes, who are peasants and who are at risk and men's prisons stay in a man's prison when they could go to a woman's prison and become the King.
00:11:31.180Uh, is there anything else you'd like to add?
00:11:32.880Um, I would just like to add that I'm actually very surprised lately with the media in Canada that are picking up on these cases.
00:11:41.880I was very, very surprised to read about the Toronto star when they reported on Charles, um, and that he was transferred to a woman's jail.
00:11:51.300And I actually reached out to the journalist and was like, Hey, you're missing a critical piece to your article.
00:11:57.720Because she didn't mention the charter challenge that was launched by Canadian women's sex-based rights.
00:12:03.920They have launched a charter challenge with the help of JCCF.
00:12:08.280And this is to challenge that the transfer policy for correctional service of Canada is actually violating the charter rights of the incarcerated women under section 7, 12, and 15.
00:12:20.000So what I want people to know is that there are people out here trying to challenge this policy and show that it is a danger to women and it needs to be reversed.
00:12:29.000Uh, and if anyone has any issues or would like to speak with you, what would be a good place to contact Cosbar or you at?
00:12:38.000They should reach out directly to Cosbar.
00:12:41.000You can send us an email at www.cawsbar.ca and that is Cosbar Canadian women's sex-based rights.