Western Standard - Alberta independence gets messy

00:00:00.000 good evening it's july 15th my name is cory morgan i'm a senior columnist of the western

00:00:29.440 Standard and you're watching the pipeline. You can see the host this week is less bearded and

00:00:35.020 prettier than the one you're used to looking at. Mr. Phil DeBranch is on a vacation for the time

00:00:39.640 being. So we've got me hosting it today and talking to a couple of our usual suspects on this

00:00:46.440 broadcast. I'll start on the end there with our news editor, Dave Naylor. Good to see you. Good

00:00:51.180 to see you. And I'm stealing you from an important match. Yeah, come on, let's talk and let's get

00:00:55.660 Let's get this going.

00:00:56.480 It doesn't make that clock go any faster.

00:00:57.880 No, I know, I know.

00:00:58.900 Go England.

00:00:59.300 We will cover those subjects.

00:01:00.860 I hope you are not too distracted.

00:01:02.440 No.

00:01:02.820 And our former opinion editor and still constant contributor of great content, Nigel Hannaford.

00:01:09.080 I would be opinion editor emeritus.

00:01:11.300 Yes.

00:01:12.000 Yes.

00:01:12.480 That sounds so much more elegant, doesn't it?

00:01:14.340 It gives it a...

00:01:15.220 It means forever, doesn't it?

00:01:16.540 No, it means once he was a has-been.

00:01:18.940 Oh, yeah. 0.67

00:01:19.480 It's a nicer way to say it.

00:01:20.920 It does sound a little better.

00:01:22.780 One of the best things I've heard before when people say that is,

00:01:26.140 better a has-been than a never-was.

00:01:28.100 Oh, true.

00:01:28.800 All right, so we've got a few things to cover.

00:01:31.920 Issues, a couple in my wheelhouse, I guess you could say.

00:01:37.040 The independence debate is going on.

00:01:39.760 Maybe we'll start right into that.

00:01:41.720 A person who's been a leading figure and voice in the independence debate for some time

00:01:45.800 is now dominating the news, but not in a good way.

00:01:48.460 What's happening, Dave?

00:01:49.540 uh no we're talking about uh jeff wrath he was a still is a leader i guess of the independence

00:01:56.100 party on on on one front he has been sued and had his assets frozen by the tall creek first nations

00:02:04.340 and it's all over a settlement that uh that i guess wrath negotiated uh that was to provide

00:02:10.580 money for for youngsters uh in the in the first nation and apparently there's some discussions

00:02:16.740 about what money was withheld and how it was withheld and all sorts of stuff like that.

00:02:22.740 So a judge has granted an account freezing, so they're actually doing further debate on it as

00:02:32.740 we speak in an Edmonton courtroom. So it's exactly the news the independence groups don't really need.

00:02:39.380 Well, that's why I sort of flagged it this morning. Would this be happening if he was not

00:02:44.580 so prominently involved with the independence movement and i can't answer that but uh it

00:02:50.980 certainly was the first thing i thought of well some people have spoken on things such as that

00:02:55.460 but it should be remembered this is part of a combination these guys have been fighting this

00:02:59.140 legal battle for a few years now oh really so i mean perhaps there's questioning on the timing

00:03:04.340 when the courts decided now is the time to pounce and act i don't know uh if that had anything to

00:03:10.180 to do with it, but it's not solely because of any independence involvement,

00:03:14.360 because I think this whole thing began before the independence.

00:03:17.800 Yeah, it's like it's pretty likely that it's only because it involves Jeff Rath

00:03:22.540 that it is getting so much news coverage.

00:03:27.340 I mean, he's certainly a volatile subject that has ranted and raved a lot on social media.

00:03:35.440 And, uh, yeah, I guess this is his enemies, uh, come up against him.

00:03:41.500 Nigel, you know, just, I guess from a strategic perspective, even if you know,

00:03:45.520 you're not necessarily part of the independence movement, but it's been an

00:03:48.480 unusual campaign, you know, when you've got a number of different groups, a

00:03:53.900 number, there's no particular centralized leader, uh, that's kind of saves you

00:03:59.280 from being taken down by one scandal, but it also means everybody kind of wears

00:04:02.800 the actions of everybody else how does the movement address this i mean part of it too is

00:04:08.540 this is still to be proved out in court i mean jeff rath may have done absolutely nothing wrong

00:04:13.060 we'll see over time but it's making the news and it still is a distraction and looks poorly

00:04:17.800 how does the movement cope with this well i think the movement is going to have to figure that out

00:04:21.960 because there's going to be a lot more dirty stuff uh coming at you you know like just this

00:04:28.080 morning, the National Post carried a story about a fellow in eastern Canada who was part

00:04:36.740 of the healthcare lobby, the people who represent the doctors and nurses and just don't want

00:04:41.820 any change because they want the money to keep coming.

00:04:44.380 Friends of Medicare as well.

00:04:46.480 At any rate, whatever, and he said, you know, Carney ought to just cut Alberta off from

00:04:52.260 healthcare.

00:04:53.260 That was your story.

00:04:55.500 So, I mean, it's not going to go anywhere because, first of all, I don't think Mr. Carney would do that.

00:05:02.700 It's not a statesman-like thing to do.

00:05:07.000 And secondly, you can't change the law just like that either.

00:05:09.820 If they do it, they do it, and they keep the health transfers coming.

00:05:14.220 But that's just one of the mentality that I see taking root.

00:05:17.340 Another one was Judge Leonard when she bumped the original referendum.

00:05:23.980 them. If that ever goes to appeal, we won't know the result for months. Meanwhile, that

00:05:33.820 question couldn't be put. The Premier came up with a clever workaround, and we're doing

00:05:39.320 that instead. There are people out there, taking the Federalist side, who are now going

00:05:46.160 to see what they can do to derail the independence movement.

00:05:52.400 Because of the 250-year events of the last few weeks,

00:05:56.820 I've been a little more aware of what

00:05:59.960 was going on in the 13 colonies 250 years ago. 1.00

00:06:04.400 I can't tell you, that's the same kind of thing

00:06:06.600 that was going on, except people were getting tired and feathers.

00:06:08.960 You might want to watch out.

00:06:10.380 And you run out of town and so forth and so on.

00:06:16.080 So I have the feeling that we're in forever.

00:06:19.160 There'll be lots to report on.

00:06:22.640 Our Chris Holcourt has a good column out at the moment

00:06:25.860 talking about that exact thing that this group wants,

00:06:30.260 Alberta Health Care, stopped by Kearney.

00:06:33.700 And Chris makes it, okay, well, if they stop health care payments, 0.68

00:06:36.160 we'll just stop equalizing Asian payments. 1.00

00:06:38.580 We'll see if it wins that. 0.97

00:06:40.580 Procedurally, it's easier for them to stop the health care payments

00:06:43.160 than they do it for us.

00:06:44.140 Yeah, because we don't transfer out, actually.

00:06:45.400 It's not like we write a check or anything, but anyway, good for Chris.

00:06:49.140 That's not unprecedented, too.

00:06:51.320 I mean, for those who remember the first Bill 11 with Ralph Klein, and prior to that, when he tried having some doctor's fees imposed on people to visit doctors, they cut our transfer payments at that time, too.

00:07:05.360 And Chrétien threatened to do so, and that's part of why, do so more, and that's part of why Klein backed off.

00:07:09.840 So they could use that as a threat and then we could see something if they follow the same rulebook to cut you in successfully.

00:07:16.840 Yeah. And sorry, Chris says it also helps the independence movement because they can see how petty the Russians are. 0.74

00:07:23.840 They're going to take their health care. 0.97

00:07:25.840 The way I remember that 25 years ago with Rolf Klein was that he recognized that the problem was that a lot of people would show up at emergency when they actually had had plenty of time to take care of it during all business hours at their own doctor.

00:07:45.000 So how do you start people doing that?

00:07:46.540 Well, I think he had $10 in mind for a fee, which was not exorbitant at all.

00:07:51.800 anyway

00:07:53.360 the liberals wanted to make a point

00:07:57.000 that they were there for the average Canadian

00:07:58.520 and oh no you can't do that 0.99

00:08:00.300 we'll cut your

00:08:01.060 transfer payments off

00:08:04.300 now why he then went further

00:08:05.880 and brought in Bill 11

00:08:07.440 to absolutely bar anybody

00:08:10.220 having a private hospital in Alberta

00:08:12.280 always struck me as a bridge too far

00:08:15.080 you know it would have been much better

00:08:16.780 to have everybody

00:08:17.680 get as many private hospitals as you can

00:08:21.020 and put the job out to bed you know whatever the job is but anyway he didn't do that unfortunately

00:08:26.860 now we're stuck with it well that's it that's the federal hammer over our heads i looked at it

00:08:30.540 recently just because it was it's a recent story and then the amount that cretchen clawed back was

00:08:33.980 almost token it was like 3.6 million dollars but it really still was part of what we were entitled

00:08:38.700 to and he took it away incline's first incarnation of bill 11 was actually to expand some private

00:08:43.820 options but he backed down on that one that's one of the things he said is a policy regret later

00:08:48.940 but there was that threat of having those transfers if people studied a bit of that too

00:08:53.440 as Chris said too this might increase the independence movement they understand

00:08:56.300 we're stuck with providing the care provincially but they tell us how we must do it and they'll

00:09:03.240 punish us with our holding our own money back if we don't well you know Corey if you let me just

00:09:08.120 promote my own show for tomorrow night here for a moment I had a really interesting guest he's

00:09:13.120 a utilities economist, and he was commenting on a paper that the federal government had

00:09:19.960 put out as an intention to proceed, and what it called for was a new way of handling power

00:09:26.900 transmission within Canada.

00:09:29.020 So they started with the premise that there was too much north-south and not enough east-west,

00:09:35.680 and therefore we need to do things differently.

00:09:37.860 Well, I tell you, right now, what emerged from that interview was just how independent

00:09:43.400 Alberta was in the matter of generation of power and moving it forward.

00:09:49.720 If this was not already in place, this is what the independence movement would be recommending.

00:09:56.260 So I have to wonder whether Mr. Carney had it in the back of his mind when he authorized

00:10:01.980 the release of this paper, or whether it's just genuinely, you know, the specialists

00:10:07.980 in the back rooms having their way.

00:10:09.980 Anyway, tomorrow at seven o'clock, tune in.

00:10:12.980 Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, healthcare in general, everybody knows it's not working.

00:10:18.980 Everybody knows, you know, you've seen the wait, doctors waiting lists, the lineups at

00:10:23.980 the ER, you know, a year and a half to get a surgery, healthcare is not working.

00:10:28.980 So at least the Smith government is trying something with this Bill 11 and allowing doctors

00:10:33.660 to bill in both the public and private sectors, and the left wing just loses their collective

00:10:39.740 minds over it.

00:10:41.400 Why not give it a go?

00:10:42.800 I mean, it's better than the status quo.

00:10:44.980 Well, you see, you're speaking like a customer, not a patient.

00:10:47.980 Well, I was a patient this week.

00:10:50.360 Well, I tell you, you want the ability to get treatment when you want it, but those

00:10:57.160 guys have the system in their hands and it works for them so they're they're the ones that you'll

00:11:07.560 never convince them otherwise so frankly the if anything is going to change it's going to have to

00:11:11.960 be because people like premier smith think it needs to change and get it done that's good that's

00:11:19.240 there's a kind of a i have friends who are doctors and nurses and so on so i have to be a bit careful

00:11:25.640 how i phrase this otherwise i'll hear about it later but you know the the system certainly works

00:11:32.440 well for the people who are paid by the hour let's put it out yeah and it's not it's not the doctors

00:11:37.960 and the nurses and the physiotherapists it's the executives the bureaucracy that's from there's

00:11:43.720 some of the other end too though i mean i can't remember the name of the group it was canadians

00:11:47.320 for democratic healthcare or something like that they're the ones really making the noise pressuring

00:11:51.000 carney saying he's got to cut and stop premier smith in her tracks and i looked into who will

00:11:55.080 Well, the funders of it are public service union, public service union, public service.

00:11:59.060 It's the unions, and they've got a stranglehold on the care.

00:12:03.700 Well, so many of those contracts are loaded with things that don't sound like much when you write them out,

00:12:09.460 but they actually add up to a lot of money.

00:12:11.000 So say you book off shift and they call you, you know, Mr. Smith is having convulsions.

00:12:15.480 What did you give him?

00:12:16.220 You know, if they take that phone call, it may take two minutes, but they get to charge a lot of time for it.

00:12:23.800 and those kinds of restrictive practices really boost the um boost the wage bill in the public

00:12:30.120 clearance sector well there's been some other things they don't like discussed if we tried to

00:12:33.800 reform some things if we had a private hospital for example i bet you private managers wouldn't

00:12:38.120 put up with a nurse pulling in 500 000 a year by gaming the overtime system as they do when they 0.73

00:12:43.400 choose shift swapping and a whole number of other things that are built into those union contracts

00:12:47.960 where suddenly they're making six, eight times regular salary and they still qualify as part-time.

00:12:57.160 There's a lot of stuff that gets exposed and then of course the unions freak out and then

00:13:00.200 the government backs off and they're too afraid to talk about it. But a private institution would

00:13:04.680 look at that at the dollars and cents and say, well, no, we're just going to hire another nurse. 1.00

00:13:09.400 We're not going to let you do that. But they would say good luck finding one. That's the

00:13:14.440 the other problem that's the other difficulty isn't it with competition actually it's surprising

00:13:18.900 what can happen but uh we'll see i mean it's there's another flash point potentially in the

00:13:24.020 independence thing as i said we've got these distractions and it's going to get uglier it's

00:13:27.660 going to get dirtier i mean yeah you know jeff wrath has this uh dennis moldry has been in some

00:13:31.860 legal soup unfortunately with his own family thing that went out which typically these things we

00:13:36.420 wouldn't hear a lot of news of it except that they're involved in the independence movement

00:13:39.640 i think the pathways for independence guy blew up a public washroom unapologetically in 1991

00:13:44.140 after a bender on draft at the spotlight club in calgary just preemptively getting that out there 0.59

00:13:49.380 in case it gets released now um sorry say that again what's that you remember the spotlight club

00:13:54.080 i remember the spotlight that was a vile place that was yes cheap draft though oh i don't know

00:13:59.140 some guy who's leading the pathway to independence group these days so it was a tragic thing but you

00:14:03.660 know just these scandals might emerge from somebody's past as this campaign gets going

00:14:08.000 further they're digging up you right now who knows that's the only one i can think of that might

00:14:12.260 you know might show some some bad principle on my part i probably should have cleaned up after

00:14:16.840 myself or something but i was you know give me a break i was 20 years old and that had a lot of

00:14:21.280 draft if i remember correctly the spotlight draft wasn't very good no it was warm and flat but it

00:14:27.960 was only four bucks a jug or something like that but you know i mean it took more to get the effect

00:14:32.240 you couldn't pass up on a scene with mitzi dupuy and some of the the talented folks who used to

00:14:37.020 tour back. But we're going at its finest. Oh yes. An ugly side track. Yes. Derek's out of the house

00:14:44.860 and he's put the tasteless man in charge of the microphone. So these things are going to come up.

00:14:49.280 All right. Well, we'll see what unfolds with all of that anyways, with Mr. Rath and

00:14:52.780 see what happens. I mean, I guess just to follow a bit, I mean, Keith Wilson's really kind of

00:14:57.580 emerging though, as the voice of this at this point and increasingly. So I think maybe the

00:15:03.720 movement's going to coalesce a little more around him as well even if some people still think highly

00:15:07.740 of Mr. Rath they just understand that if we can't focus on independence when all this other stuff's

00:15:12.860 going on. No and you don't have time to really have a convention to get a leader but after the

00:15:19.500 referendum you do have time. Do you think that's something the independence groups will take on and

00:15:25.080 have a convention and select a leader? I don't know I mean I don't know how you do it because

00:15:30.160 we're in an unprecedented spot. With a party, it gives you a natural mechanism and a role and a

00:15:34.640 place. But with a bunch of disparate groups, how do you still crown a king? Even if it's a

00:15:41.120 democratic means, we haven't been down this road before. You have to go back to the constitutional

00:15:51.600 textbooks and just look at who else. I mean, how did they do it in 1776? They had their revolution

00:15:58.800 first and the constitutional convention second, as I seem to recall.

00:16:03.980 Yeah, well, if we were going down that road, presumably, to an actual Clarity Act-compliant

00:16:08.660 referendum, and there was a yes vote, you know, we're still a good few steps away from

00:16:13.700 there, then theoretically, yes, some sort of constitutional convention would have to

00:16:17.340 be held and somebody would be picked.

00:16:18.600 But how does this movement deal with this right now?

00:16:22.060 You know, even if they get, say, 60% on that word salad of a question that's coming, it's

00:16:27.420 not binding for anything.

00:16:28.400 it will move the gears for it and obviously this issue won't be going away we'll have more happening

00:16:32.720 but how will they centralize their messaging frankly they're you know you do actually have

00:16:37.920 to go back to the books that chart the progress of revolutions i'm thinking of crane's book it

00:16:45.840 was written before the war but he analyzed how movements like the french revolution like the

00:16:53.200 like the american revolution like the civil wars in england how the russian revolution came about

00:17:01.520 and unfortunately what always seemed to happen would there would be a strong group and there

00:17:06.720 would be a more moderate group and they would join together and then there would be a purge of the

00:17:14.320 weaker groups afterwards and that it would be i'm not recommending this i'm just saying that

00:17:20.240 historically that's what tends to happen yeah and but you won't even get a chance to

00:17:28.160 form a government and do any purging unless you first seize the initiative and get yourself

00:17:35.600 elected that's what it'll take somebody's going to have to shake hands and say well

00:17:39.760 until we get through the the next election we're going to work together sort it out later

00:17:44.480 Well, we'll see what happens. Well, so another story popping up. It says a lot too. Alberta's

00:17:54.000 prospering despite Canada. Not because of it, I think. I think most Albertans realize that and

00:17:58.520 feel that way. The jobs report was pretty interesting. So with Alberta created eight

00:18:03.980 out of 10 of the new jobs across Canada in the past year. And that's even so, I mean,

00:18:09.640 Ottawa has that ability to keep creating those civil service jobs. That's part of how Trudeau

00:18:13.600 managed to always pad the numbers even despite that sort of thing though carney i think hasn't

00:18:18.480 been as aggressive in hiring civil service no that's true getting rid of them but uh eight and

00:18:24.480 ten in a province that only makes up 12 of the country these are private sector jobs yes these

00:18:29.200 are good jobs yeah i got the numbers i got the numbers so 12 we got 12 we only have 12 of the

00:18:36.240 country but we make 80 of the jobs full-time jobs 59 000 and these are good paying jobs and 55 000

00:18:46.240 of them were in the healthcare sector wow so that's the hiring of the nurses and all that sort

00:18:53.200 of good stuff so it'll be compared ontario only got created 65 000 jobs and all the people are

00:19:01.120 saying you know it's basically everybody's flocking to alberta because they can get jobs

00:19:05.360 with good pay and the cost of living here uh buying a house all that sort of good stuff

00:19:10.400 is way cheaper than in vancouver or toronto so it certainly puts a um uh yet another damper on the

00:19:19.360 the the uh chicken littles in the sky that said this referendum question would uh uh you know

00:19:25.680 force investment away from alberta it's not done that we have the 13 billion dollar data center

00:19:31.440 that it's from Zuckerberg

00:19:34.160 that Corey's getting all this hate mail from.

00:19:37.280 So, no, Alberta is booming.

00:19:40.700 Yeah, and it's actually been booming

00:19:43.020 for a very long time.

00:19:44.800 It's just that we never got the credit for it.

00:19:47.100 But now, of course, with the Eastern manufacturing, 1.00

00:19:51.180 it's too bad.

00:19:52.900 They're getting walled by the American attitude

00:19:55.680 to bringing production back into the United States.

00:19:59.640 so the auto industry is reeling and the steel industry is reeling and

00:20:05.560 all these projects are going into the major projects office but none of them are coming out

00:20:09.880 so there's not much hope to be had in eastern canada at the moment i think people hear that

00:20:16.600 song about alberta band and they decide there's better things to available out here and sure

00:20:21.800 enough. Especially if you've got a degree in nursing, your doors are open for you.

00:20:28.520 That's the only thing that discourages me a little about those numbers. I mean,

00:20:33.240 great, we need the healthcare professionals. We're just talking about that. But I would be,

00:20:37.880 I would personally be happier if it was people who were in the energy sector or perhaps doing

00:20:47.480 something with AI value-added industries we all need versus but at the end we it's a cost not a

00:20:55.820 it's very good news I think for the Smith government too though uh particularly the

00:21:00.320 healthcare ones though in that sense that the doomsayers as she's brought in policies and

00:21:04.780 she's been fighting with the unions the teachers union you know getting back to work and there's

00:21:08.980 always uh you know crabbiness with the nurses union and they've always said the NDP all these

00:21:14.360 professionals are going to flee Alberta you're not going to be able to get your nurses you're

00:21:17.240 going to be able to get teachers you're not and they never actually flee you know just in passing

00:21:21.640 corey i am absolutely flabbergasted by the relentless propaganda paid for by the health

00:21:28.120 and education uniforms it's blasting out of the radio every day like it never stops and yet

00:21:37.560 they're coming here in droves to take well-paid work in alberta do they not get the memos from

00:21:43.800 the union office you can sell your house in toronto and buy something similar here and you

00:21:50.040 know bank half your money all right i mean that seems like a no-brainer well it says something

00:21:55.000 about those unions too though and that i mean it's true you can't turn on the radio without hearing

00:21:58.920 another one of those health care or education union guys going but the teachers union with

00:22:03.720 their short-lived strike uh didn't have any strike pay because it turns out all the money they've

00:22:09.160 been paying into their union for decades the union's been pissing it away and never actually

00:22:13.640 set it aside for a time like that when they need it that's where it's going they're blowing it out

00:22:18.920 on these ads that are failing yes i can give you guys some advice podcasts you don't have to listen

00:22:26.120 to commercial radio oh i'm familiar with those yeah you don't want it to yourself yeah nobody

00:22:32.040 will buy ads online so you don't have to get it is that because you blew up the stripper's bathroom

00:22:37.320 it wasn't the stripper's bathroom it was just a public washroom it was terrible either way

00:22:42.280 uh thank you less said about that since the days before having everybody having a camera so

00:22:47.240 i i do blame that i think there was some sort of poison in that jug of draft

00:22:51.160 came other than ping pong ball i didn't like that but

00:22:56.680 nurses had to treat my gastric issues later bless them all anyway all the rocks rocks

00:23:03.560 rockin and roll do we have room for all these people in the schools or bulging you know housing

00:23:10.360 starts i believe i'm just going off of memory i think they've been shooting up very well

00:23:16.840 so does this now i mean tying it into the prior discussion though does this undercut the

00:23:22.840 independence uh case a little bit i mean it's kind of saying well you know what alberta can still

00:23:28.920 manage to keep its industries going i mean it's like i said at the start i feel alberta's

00:23:32.520 prospering despite ottawa but maybe some people are satisfied even if it's despite auto as long

00:23:38.040 as the prospering is happening well there would be room for some uh you know to do a good streeter

00:23:44.840 with uh going around asking people are you new to alberta how do you feel about because i have

00:23:52.520 a feeling hopefully i have not done the street or i have not asked the question but i have a sense

00:23:58.360 that people who just moved in from toronto probably don't have that sense of alberta pride

00:24:05.320 that people who have lived here for generations and feel aggrieved at the attitude of the federal

00:24:13.160 government often bear with them. I mean, there's a reason why we think the way we do, but if you've

00:24:19.240 just moved in from out of town, you probably haven't had time to pick up on that vibe.

00:24:23.080 No, and I think you're probably going to vote to stay.

00:24:25.400 I would.

00:24:25.880 Because she's not going to give everything up in Toronto, move here, and then what,

00:24:29.640 we're going to be a separate country?

00:24:31.160 I mean, that was a difficult one too. You never know. I mean,

00:24:34.200 I mean, a lot of people moved here to escape, though, what they felt was going on government-wise, and they don't want to see it creeping in here.

00:24:39.460 I have been.

00:24:40.420 I mean, it's anecdotal, so I don't know how much it means in the numbers in general, but a fair number, actually.

00:24:45.180 People have moved here for that express purpose.

00:24:46.900 Just said, well, it's the last bastion of conservatism.

00:24:50.260 I want to move here and save what little I can from what seems to be creeping in everywhere else, and I'm going to support it.

00:24:56.920 Some of the worst I've seen have been long-established Albertans, professors, others, you know, well, I got my mortgage paid off.

00:25:03.680 I've got my pension. I don't want to rock the boat right now. But the young ambitious ones who are moving and traveling, they're a little more, I think, flexible anyways, maybe.

00:25:13.740 But I mean, I'm just guessing from who I meet. I meet only select people, though.

00:25:18.560 Yes, their audiences are a bit biased.

00:25:22.100 Yes, their rooms can be a little slanted. Well, I mean, I do meet people on the other side.

00:25:25.560 They come out, but usually they're hollering at me until we get security to have them removed.

00:25:30.280 So it's a polarizing time.

00:25:31.840 How's the book sales coming?

00:25:32.880 Very good.

00:25:33.680 yeah i'm sold out again are you really how many copies is on now i don't know what the you know

00:25:38.640 with the updated sovereignty sandbook if you give me an opportunity for a plug i don't manage the

00:25:44.400 online sales of it so i don't see those stats uh quite yet but uh the the sales in person as i go

00:25:51.600 to events and selling them i've sold a couple hundred already just you know the sovereignty

00:25:56.880 handbook yes the updated one you know apparently apparently he still hasn't earned enough to wear

00:26:01.840 a tie oh i forgot that jeez i i it's sort of the aftermath of stampede well this was part of the

00:26:08.400 hurry too i mean this was a this was a no huddle uh uh you know take off here right from my show

00:26:14.560 to this show because you have an important event i have an important event i'm trying to get there

00:26:18.880 and you know derek's not derek's in germany so yeah we know he won't watch the show well he never

00:26:23.280 watches the show when he's here well this will be the time that he does oh well for one time

00:26:29.520 because he's jet lagged and awake in munich well interesting uh let's uh look into the federal

00:26:37.040 front again this is a beauty uh you put that in there carney's choice of a chief operating officer

00:26:42.240 i mean that's a new office in the prime minister's office all together yeah and uh so much for elbows

00:26:47.920 up apparently i guess he couldn't find anybody within canada who qualified for the role i know

00:26:52.320 No, this is a really weird story.

00:26:55.560 For the benefit of listeners who might not be aware,

00:26:59.160 I did have six years in order working in the Prime Minister's office,

00:27:02.140 so I'm fairly aware of the way the office is structured.

00:27:07.500 And this is a complete outlier in terms of it.

00:27:11.600 So I've been checking around with some of my old colleagues

00:27:14.140 to see if they've heard of anything like it.

00:27:17.180 And the short answer is no.

00:27:18.620 So, this is not some other position renamed.

00:27:26.100 It is a new position.

00:27:27.520 It is a position that Carney obviously wants for his purposes that he's figured out.

00:27:35.540 You have the prime minister, you have the cabinet, you have the prime minister's office.

00:27:39.960 uh political appointees who who try to give the try to give instruction to the rest of the federal

00:27:47.480 government the civil service chosen for their point of view so you have a chief of staff

00:27:52.760 the chief of staff does all the unpleasant work that the prime minister shouldn't have to do like

00:27:59.720 fire people and hire people and then you've got the there's a whole policy as a side of it as well

00:28:07.320 that gets shared out between the deputy chief of staff and the the principal secretary so everything

00:28:14.840 to do with executive action and policy development is already figured out in those three people now

00:28:20.600 we have a fourth one courtesy of of mr carney he described it the appointment is described as being

00:28:28.760 the chief operating officer well you know the all of those functions that are wrapped up in the

00:28:36.600 in a chief operating officer's job in a private company are actually taken care of

00:28:41.640 by the three individuals you mentioned before the chief of staff the deputy chief of staff

00:28:45.400 the principal secretary so quite what this person's unique uh lane to run in is going to be

00:28:52.200 i i've not figured that out yet and none of the people that i spoke to have figured it out either

00:28:57.960 they're all scratching their heads the only thing that i can think of that makes any sense

00:29:04.200 is that this woman is a democrat she is she knows a lot of the people in washington who would be

00:29:14.780 valuable for mr carney to know and if she is a democrat and served under mr biden she'd have a

00:29:21.680 pretty good idea of what the of the ways that particular part of the united states thinks and

00:29:28.260 where the weak points may be

00:29:30.380 so perhaps it is

00:29:31.960 they had to call her something

00:29:34.140 I can't see her 1.00

00:29:35.660 interfering with the mechanics of government

00:29:38.460 but 1.00

00:29:39.980 she will provide

00:29:41.280 intelligence from the

00:29:43.680 Washington swamp

00:29:45.840 that might be helpful to Mr. Carney

00:29:48.340 but this

00:29:49.240 Corey, Dave, is me

00:29:51.700 in my nice mode

00:29:53.500 trying to put the most positive spin

00:29:55.780 on something that is completely

00:29:57.920 He's outrageous.

00:30:00.040 Well, you did say intelligence and Ottawa in the same sentence.

00:30:04.060 Sometimes that doesn't quite.

00:30:05.880 It doesn't always work.

00:30:07.180 This new CAO has a democratic history, as you know,

00:30:11.380 worked for Hillary Clinton in her election campaign in 2016.

00:30:16.220 Really, was that 10 years ago already?

00:30:18.260 Yeah.

00:30:19.000 And has also been involved with the Democratic mayor,

00:30:22.820 former Democratic mayor of New York, Michael Bloomberg.

00:30:26.340 So not really a record of success.

00:30:28.520 No, no, no, it hasn't backed a winner yet.

00:30:31.760 And she's apparently already been fined by the ethics commissioner, $250 fine for not, you know, giving up the details of her portfolio quick enough.

00:30:44.040 So already she's tired and she really has the start of the job. 0.59

00:30:47.780 I mean, give her a little slack. 0.94

00:30:49.220 They don't have ethics commissioners in Washington.

00:30:53.420 they may have senate committees to investigate but this is like who is an ethics commissioner what

00:30:59.660 who is this you know well 250 dollars later and now you know well you think somebody might have

00:31:06.380 told her that she had to fill this out fill out the form i don't know remember you said intelligence

00:31:12.780 in ottawa in the same sentence let me know bright side they could have asked gerald butts to come

00:31:16.700 that oh no i don't even think mark carney would touch that you know but i just don't see the

00:31:24.380 value and the tactics of this i mean you laid out part of the value this person could provide

00:31:29.080 fair enough you know you need somebody who knows some of the names and faces and people to talk to

00:31:33.040 but he should also be keenly aware that he's dealing with an orange tinted hypersensitive

00:31:39.100 madman and trying to make trade deals with and to take a prominent democrat operative and stick it

00:31:45.940 into his office, no less. It's not going to make his job any easier in dealing with President

00:31:52.380 Trump, who really doesn't take anything lightly or well. You know, you could get the value of this

00:31:58.300 person in many, many positions. It's easy enough for the prime minister's office. You make a budget,

00:32:02.740 you create a role, and you can put them there without it being so prominent as being one of

00:32:06.620 your full-out inner circle people. I mean, was this a purposeful signal in doing this, or is it

00:32:13.360 just poor diplomatic instincts you look uh last week we had to back down on the uh gordy howe

00:32:20.560 bridge stuff we were supposed to get all the tolls we built that bridge and now carney is

00:32:25.920 capitulated and trump's going to get another trump's going to get half of it so all he seems

00:32:31.680 to be doing is capitulating i think it's the state of michigan that gets uh half the tolls isn't it

00:32:36.760 Is it?

00:32:37.260 Well, yeah.

00:32:37.980 In any case.

00:32:38.400 In any case.

00:32:39.060 In any case.

00:32:39.080 In any case.

00:32:39.740 In any case.

00:32:40.460 And, you know, it was blocked by Trump people.

00:32:44.200 And Trump says he's now happy with the deal.

00:32:46.220 So at least he's not going to bomb Windsor.

00:32:48.820 Well, not yet.

00:32:49.820 Give it an hour.

00:32:51.640 I mean, the other part, too, of course, it undercuts the entire basis of how Carney even got himself elected.

00:32:57.920 His whole campaign was elbows up.

00:33:00.140 All Canada, all the time, higher from within. 1.00

00:33:02.960 Don't feed those dirty Americans. 1.00

00:33:05.120 Apparently, out of 40 million Canadians, she was the only one qualified for that position, though, somehow. 0.99

00:33:12.720 As I say, the astonishment of my erstwhile colleagues and what this person was supposed to do was the signal that this is something a bit different.

00:33:22.960 And it's not the first time that the Liberals have actually employed American expertise.

00:33:28.180 I think they had Frank Luntz up, this must be 10 years ago now, but a mercenary, an advisor for hire.

00:33:37.500 He would have been just as happy to advise the Conservatives, but the Liberals got to him first and had more money, so he worked for them.

00:33:45.620 So the idea of bringing in the people on the American left to advise the Liberal Party is not a new one.

00:33:53.520 This is not the first time it's happened, but I am surprised that Mr. Carney,

00:33:58.180 She, in the circumstances, would have chosen that person at this time.

00:34:05.260 Maybe she knows something about somebody down there that's going to be helpful.

00:34:09.180 You never know.

00:34:10.180 Have either of you seen a salary for her?

00:34:13.180 No.

00:34:14.180 However, that'll be interesting.

00:34:15.180 Well, it will be interesting, but it probably wasn't the clincher deal for her.

00:34:21.300 Everybody thinks that senior politicos make a lot of money, but not compared to what they're

00:34:26.860 capable of making elsewhere if they're capable of doing that job at all so i would i would be

00:34:31.500 pitching her salary in the 200 to 250 000 range well carney's appointment of the defense procurement

00:34:37.580 guy he's making 700 grand he's making way more than carney but he's not within the prime minister's

00:34:43.580 office no no i'm just working for a you know hands-off organization so within if she is a

00:34:51.100 staffer and covered by the civil service grade system then it only takes you so far up the ladder

00:34:59.420 don't worry it'll be she'll be okay it'll be enough to rent an apartment she's not starving

00:35:02.860 she can pay those 250 dollar fines for making more than quarter oh that's a pretty low bar to get

00:35:08.780 with there uh well you know i mean we've got some time we've been moving along something else

00:35:13.900 hit on anyways of federal policy go off script make you work uh impulsively the assembly of

00:35:19.500 First Nations is one of Canada's favorite lobby groups that we all get to pay for. They're having

00:35:24.780 their big annual shindig this week, you know, so just a complaint fest as usual. I don't think

00:35:30.220 they've ever actually liked anything when they've gotten together. But I guess they have just today

00:35:35.660 unanimously resolved to oppose Carney's proposed reforms and streamlining major project approvals.

00:35:43.820 So they're basically saying we're going to oppose anything and everything you put forward

00:35:48.540 in this major project notion that you've

00:35:51.360 got, what are you going to do

00:35:53.200 about it?

00:35:54.860 He's going to have to take a stance with these guys.

00:35:56.840 Yeah, he is, but my understanding is

00:35:58.920 once it's passed the major project's

00:36:01.280 office and gotten approval,

00:36:03.000 what the natives say doesn't matter.

00:36:05.660 But they're still going

00:36:06.900 to blockade

00:36:09.080 and block trains

00:36:10.800 and disrupt highway travel.

00:36:13.060 But yeah, as you said,

00:36:14.800 somebody's got to put their foot down.

00:36:16.520 I mean, where do we go with this?

00:36:19.860 You know, this is something I wrote a column on.

00:36:22.740 I dug deeply into before a while back.

00:36:24.760 I mean, this is Supreme Court affirmed, but you never hear it out of Kearney.

00:36:28.660 That's what we need.

00:36:29.120 We need leadership out of that man to point this out.

00:36:32.020 It's gone to court many, many times.

00:36:34.340 The consultation thing they've won on a number of times in court, and every ruling also makes

00:36:38.580 it clear, though, that they do not have veto authority.

00:36:41.300 They've never had veto authority.

00:36:43.500 And Kearney's been giving them de facto veto authority.

00:36:46.280 So what does he expect when they get together and say, we're not going to approve anything?

00:36:50.500 Because he already said with the pipeline from Alberta a while back, he said that will only happen with First Nations consent, not consultation.

00:36:58.640 He's going to have to pick a lane.

00:37:00.920 Yeah, I've often wondered whether he regretted saying that.

00:37:04.480 It probably rolled off the lips fairly easily at the time.

00:37:07.780 But having consultation and giving consent is not the same thing.

00:37:12.960 And, of course, the indigenous people have got a right to be consulted.

00:37:20.680 That much we have conceded in several significant court decisions over the last 30 years.

00:37:25.720 It's not a matter of, you know, we're dealing with moralities here.

00:37:29.500 This is the law.

00:37:30.500 They have won the right to be consulted.

00:37:32.840 However, nobody in the court system has conceded the right that even with UNDRIP, the United

00:37:41.000 Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People, even when that was brought in, even when

00:37:46.660 BC brought it in itself, so that just in case nobody else in Canada got it, BC was pure of

00:37:53.080 heart in its approach to Indigenous people. Even that didn't give that right, only the right to

00:38:00.740 be consulted. So it ought to be an easy thing for Mr. Carney to say, look, we've listened to you

00:38:10.020 long enough now we're stamped back because the bulldozers are coming through uh that 0.87

00:38:17.700 he also has this advantage that of all the indigenous groups that you could be up against 0.56

00:38:25.460 the assembly of first nations is the one you would pick because the afn

00:38:32.260 And how can I say this delicately?

00:38:37.440 Because I don't want to be sued like some of my colleagues get sued when they, you know.

00:38:44.160 Immunus trial dates at the end of August.

00:38:45.880 You know, here's the deal.

00:38:47.920 If they're getting some money and they just drop the check off at the AFN office,

00:38:53.260 you can rely on the AFN to see that it goes to the right place.

00:38:57.360 it's it's colonial in its uh in its way so i don't get the impression that the average

00:39:08.180 indigenous person on the reserve boiling his water is thinks too highly of the afn 0.95

00:39:15.960 because they are not living on the reserve they are indecent it's like when we were talking about 1.00

00:39:23.180 the proposed West East pipeline that has to go through Manitoba and they've

00:39:28.040 got a, uh, indigenous premier who doesn't like the idea and, and, you

00:39:33.020 know, we'll oppose it.

00:39:35.160 And he's got the, whatever first nations they are, they'll oppose it.

00:39:39.700 All you need to do is back up a garbage truck full of money, tip it in there

00:39:43.400 and they'll be happily on board.

00:39:44.500 Well, you know, something else you could do, and I know they won't, is stop

00:39:47.940 the money.

00:39:49.040 You know what, when they get a little hungry, it's amazing how much more

00:39:51.580 receptive, people come. I just, you know, said it online on X, not as a matter of, I know people,

00:39:59.160 of course, I was starving natives now, now, whatever. The Alberta Association of Assembly

00:40:05.880 of First Nations. People don't understand as well. I mean, media treats it as if it's some

00:40:10.300 sort of established level of government or something. It's just a lobby group, nothing

00:40:14.520 else. That's all it is. And it's fully funded by us, taxpayers. There's no treaty anywhere

00:40:20.660 that says we are obligated to fund this gang of extortionists and i'll say it that way you're

00:40:27.620 starting to sound like that health care guy who said that alberta's health care payment should

00:40:32.020 be cut off what are you saying here i'm saying sir gets attention doesn't it but i mean you know if

00:40:39.300 they were to be a lobby group that represents indigenous people on the ground they should be

00:40:43.060 going to the reserves and rattling a cup and getting the funding from the people they purport

00:40:46.900 to represent. Why are we paying the money to oppose us? And I'm giving money to these people

00:40:54.200 to put me out of business. And I think some people are getting tired of it. I know it won't happen,

00:41:00.060 but unfortunately, as you said, the way it does work is, yes, there'll be some deals negotiated

00:41:06.360 and some more money will land in the right pockets and then things will get done. But it's not a

00:41:11.200 productive way to work forward. I don't know if we'll ever see the political courage to actually

00:41:14.880 deal with this is i think we must but well they must well i hate to give credit to anybody with

00:41:21.600 the name of trudeau but uh pierre trudeau at least had the uh the foresight to recommend

00:41:28.560 ending the reserve system his white paper was brilliant yeah it just uh it never happened but

00:41:34.160 it was him and chretien and they backed off canada would be a completely different country today if

00:41:38.960 they don't stood the ground on that and then his son took away the fact that uh

00:41:42.880 First Nations had to report

00:41:45.460 their expenses. 1.00

00:41:47.300 Job one in the first week, I think.

00:41:50.100 Well, there's a difference

00:41:51.400 anyways. Trudeau Sr.

00:41:53.280 was a terrible socialist of a man 0.93

00:41:55.620 and authoritarian. At least he 0.88

00:41:57.460 was bright. His offspring bouncing around

00:41:59.640 like a pogo stick at 1.00

00:42:01.160 pop concerts now. 1.00

00:42:03.400 Man, I just would have hoped he'd just vanish

00:42:05.400 after leaving, but we still have to see

00:42:07.560 him in our scroll. And he badly

00:42:09.420 needs a haircut if he's going to go flopping around

00:42:11.460 like that he needs a cut all right but whatever yes he would just have to deal with that in our

00:42:18.000 history okay he's getting her time i guess for the parting shots i'll start on the end and work

00:42:21.760 my way in dave what do you got today i just want to say it's uh the last month has been a great

00:42:26.120 world cup there's been stadiums full in uh in three countries in in america hasn't been any

00:42:32.760 major riding no incidents uh and uh it's gone the only the only problem was donald trump

00:42:41.000 interfering with the belga with the usa red card utterly despicable utterly uh shows you the the

00:42:48.520 depth of the corruption of of uh fifa but uh you know well played to them for for the last month

00:42:55.320 and hopefully we'll have a good final on Sunday between Spain and England. 0.76

00:43:02.440 She's of the Spanish Armada. Okay. Yes, we sank them.

00:43:06.920 We won the last round. Yes, you're right. Look, intriguing story there that we had about who

00:43:14.200 pays taxes. And it turned out, according to the Fraser Institute, and one thing about the Fraser

00:43:19.080 Institute, everybody understands they're a conservatively-minded organization, but nobody

00:43:23.800 has tripped them up on their numbers and on their research so i take this more or less as the you

00:43:29.720 know the literal truth that 20 of the people pay 60 of the taxes which means that 80 of the people

00:43:38.280 pay 40 of the taxes which makes the whole system quite a lot more egalitarian i put me in mind of

00:43:45.000 a of another statistic that i found years ago went and looked it up and it's still the same

00:43:52.680 that when you uh people at the lower end of the socioeconomic scale actually come out

00:44:00.200 functionally without paying taxes at all there's about 40 percent of canadians

00:44:05.000 who when you balance out what they receive from the government in various subsidies against what

00:44:12.600 they pay in taxes either in income tax or sales tax they're even steven they actually don't

00:44:19.400 contribute and they don't cost. And so it's that 60% of everybody else who pays the freight for

00:44:28.940 government. Are you one of the 40 or one of the 60? I don't pay a lot. I'm on the high end of

00:44:38.200 the scale. So I guess I can say I benefit. Oh, well, okay. Well, and I'll end on some of the

00:44:43.520 people who do do quite well. Toronto's story, though, in the standard with the Ontario tourism

00:44:48.900 cultured gaming minister stan cho who uh is now agreed to reimburse taxpayers for more than 16

00:44:55.140 000 for hotel stays in downtown toronto over just the last three years he only lives six

00:45:00.660 kilometers from the assembly i mean it's a and he has a access to a limousine or a tax funded

00:45:05.780 vehicle and driver if he wanted it let's get real he wasn't using that room for sleeping i think

00:45:11.460 it's mrs cho has got more questions than the taxpayers do on what he's been doing in that

00:45:15.780 hotel all this time i was going to say the same thing and uh as as bad as a personal ethical uh

00:45:24.340 thing that is with mr cho as well but it just shows again where these politicians so many of

00:45:29.700 them just lose all grasp of of respect for the money of the people that they're entrusted to

00:45:35.860 that phrase i'm entitled to my entitled oh yes i do well that was a civil servant but yes he

00:45:41.780 He had billed for a 25-cent piece of chewing gum.

00:45:44.980 Or was it Dingwall?

00:45:46.060 It was Dingwall, actually.

00:45:47.180 Yeah, okay, yeah.

00:45:48.200 God.

00:45:48.880 Dingbath. 0.93

00:45:50.000 Well, at least he wasn't $16,000 in a hotel.

00:45:53.940 Well, hotel rooms are pretty expensive now, I guess.

00:45:56.200 But you don't really need one if you live six.

00:45:59.740 You can stumble home.

00:46:00.940 Well, yeah, unless you needed some privacy for a moment.

00:46:04.880 You know, I guess he didn't like those ones that charge by the hour.

00:46:08.100 All right.

00:46:08.900 No, it was Jack Wayne.

00:46:10.200 What are you thinking of now?

00:46:11.780 Yes.

00:46:13.720 Oh, how am I going to stop?

00:46:14.940 Okay, so that's it.

00:46:16.960 Dave, Nigel, thank you very much for a good pipeline today.

00:46:20.520 And I'll let you get to the game.

00:46:21.780 I won't see anything about Leighton and his indiscretions and particular taste he seems to have in people.

00:46:28.200 And thank all you guys for tuning in.

00:46:29.840 And hey, just a reminder of the way we pay those bills.

00:46:32.240 It's important, please.

00:46:33.580 If you haven't subscribed already, get on there.

00:46:35.700 Westernstandard.news slash subscription.

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00:46:39.660 It's an investment in your own education and well-being and being up-to-date on the news and knowing what's going on out there.

00:46:46.160 And if you don't know how to interpret that great news copy that Dave's given you, you can read my columns.

00:46:51.180 I'll tell you what to think.

00:46:52.420 Just check it out, Western Standard Online, or no, westernstandard.news slash subscription.

00:46:56.780 Thanks for tuning in today, guys, and we will see you all again next week.

00:47:09.660 We'll be right back.

Western Standard - July 16, 2026

Alberta independence gets messy

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