Western Standard - American advice for Canada's PM - 'Get rid of DEI!'

00:00:00.000 Good evening, Western Standard viewers, and welcome to Hannaford, a weekly politics show.

00:00:21.040 It is Thursday, August the 21st. Almost every week since President Trump was sworn in seven months

00:00:27.320 ago, he has announced that as part of his strategy to rebuild America's industrial base,

00:00:33.320 foreign companies and even countries are pledging significant investments in the United States.

00:00:39.640 According to a recent White House statement, these pledges now exceed a massive $8 trillion,

00:00:45.480 and that's in just seven months. And since that statement, there's been a $550 billion

00:00:50.520 country-to-country deal announced with Japan. But are these promises leading to real on-the-ground

00:00:57.820 activity in the U.S.? Is it all a show? Are we about to lose our Canadian automotive manufacturing

00:01:06.660 industry? With me today is Andrew Hale, a senior policy analyst in trade policy in Washington's

00:01:13.980 Heritage Foundation. Good evening, Andrew. Hello. Good evening. Andrew, is this real?

00:01:19.480 when do struggling americans in the rust belt or anywhere actually start getting good jobs out of

00:01:25.300 all this and is part of the good jobs that they hope to get jobs that are presently in canada

00:01:32.080 making motor cars well i think that um you know it takes literally years to build factories it can

00:01:39.520 take up to 10 years to build a nuclear reactor um so yes we do want to make more infrastructure

00:01:45.800 here in the United States. We definitely want to expand manufacturing, but I don't necessarily

00:01:50.940 agree with the approach. I think you could do a lot with deregulation here in the United States.

00:01:55.300 To give you an example, in 1990, we had 57 blast furnaces in which to make steel. We're now down

00:02:01.020 to 11 blast furnaces, and that's largely because it's so difficult to build new blast furnaces

00:02:07.120 given the regulations. And even just last year, the Biden-Harris administration imposed new

00:02:11.960 regulations on the emissions of steel production, and steel production and net zero targets don't

00:02:17.660 mix. So we're actually purchasing 40% of our steel from Canada, our refined steel, because in Canada

00:02:23.780 you have green steel. You're making your steel from nuclear power in Ontario, and of course the

00:02:30.480 steel and aluminium being made in Quebec with hydroelectric power. So again, if we want to

00:02:35.880 compete with that, we'll have to build new nuclear reactors. But of course, they take about 10 years

00:02:41.740 to build. So I'm afraid it would be better to free up the regulation of a focus on that

00:02:46.240 as opposed to a focus on the tariffs. Yes. Well, I actually found an article that you

00:02:52.400 co-wrote with Dr. Stern in the New York Post just last year. And I think you made very much that

00:03:00.100 point talking about the trade in the United States. And we're talking about the U.S.,

00:03:08.260 but obviously we're a Canadian outlet.

00:03:10.620 I think we suffer from some of the same things in this country.

00:03:17.520 And you made the point that economic gains need to come through merit,

00:03:20.980 not be conferred by government favoritism.

00:03:24.000 Yes.

00:03:25.200 Do you think that President Trump is actually addressing that?

00:03:32.740 And further on in that same article, you did speak quite positively about tariffs.

00:03:37.080 So when did when I spoke positively about a border adjustment tax, which is a tariff like tax.

00:03:43.440 I didn't specifically speak about tariffs in general.

00:03:46.760 I was specifically talking about a border adjustment tax, which would be like a GST that you have in Canada.

00:03:52.260 OK, the you know, you explained that China routinely violates American patents and foreign countries often restrict U.S. companies.

00:04:06.240 they restrict Canadian companies as well, and use tariffs and subsidies to funnel investments

00:04:11.440 and jobs out of the United States. Well, I think what Mr. Trump is trying to do is reverse that

00:04:17.520 process. But maybe you think otherwise. Where do you and he part company on this?

00:04:27.200 Well, I was expecting, when President Trump was going to be elected, I was expecting this,

00:04:32.320 which was Ambassador Robert Lighthizer's no-trade-is-free changing wars taking on China.

00:04:37.800 That's what we were told was going to be the playbook for the Trump administration number two,

00:04:42.980 second-term administration. And Ambassador Lighthizer hasn't returned yet. He didn't,

00:04:47.420 of course, join the first Trump administration at the beginning. There's still time for him to come

00:04:50.760 back. And remember, of course, the USMC negotiations, or KUSMA, as you'd say in Canada,

00:04:55.280 were going nowhere. So we were expecting a real emphasis on China. I wasn't expecting a tariff

00:05:01.160 war against all of our friends and allies. And I have to, like I said, I think that's because

00:05:06.280 the driving force is not Ambassador Lighthizer in this term, as he was very much in charge of

00:05:11.880 trade policy in President Trump's first term. We have Peter Navarro, and he basically is someone

00:05:17.120 who doesn't see tariffs as a means to, as a negotiating tool, which clearly they are. But

00:05:24.480 he also sees them as a means to pay off the national debt and raise revenue. And I would

00:05:28.900 like to address that because we have, what, now $37 trillion in national debt in the United States,

00:05:34.300 and you could abolish every government department except the Pentagon and the entitlement programs,

00:05:39.740 and you'd only take off $1 trillion off the national debt, and tariffs are not going to

00:05:44.020 pay down the national debt. And I'd have to address the actual methodology behind this,

00:05:51.280 I think, is somewhat flawed. We have to ask ourselves, what was the methodology behind

00:05:54.740 the tariffs against Canada and Mexico, the initial 25% they announced earlier this year,

00:06:00.000 as well as the Liberation Day tariffs in April. They did not actually calculate tariff rates

00:06:06.000 and non-tariff barriers as they said they did. Instead, for every country, they just took our

00:06:10.680 trade deficit with that country of only goods and not services and divided it by the exports to us.

00:06:17.180 And I think it's important to remember that our trade deficit is the flip side of a demand for

00:06:21.080 assets. So here in the United States, instead of exchanging exported goods for imported goods,

00:06:25.600 we make financial assets. And we all seek foreign investment, but some deride the trade deficits.

00:06:30.940 And to put it a different way, if you have a capital account surplus, you must have an equal

00:06:35.600 and opposite signed current account deficit. And most of our current account involves trades and

00:06:39.820 goods and services. So in other words, we have an investment surplus and God help us if we lose that

00:06:44.500 because that's a sign of a very wealthy country that people want to invest in. Also, proportionally

00:06:48.920 speaking americans have more purchasing power we purchase stuff as a wealthy country with wealthy

00:06:53.800 citizens purchase the world that's okay now that's a very degree level analysis is which is what i

00:07:00.420 would expect from the heritage foundation thank you but let's bring this back to uh first of all

00:07:07.100 the canadian auto industry i mean the idea i think is that if you put tariffs on uh canadian

00:07:15.160 manufacture then eventually it will make more sense it may be a messy process it

00:07:20.140 may take a little while but eventually it's going to make sense for the the

00:07:25.720 auto industry to establish itself back in Detroit back south of the border

00:07:30.940 anyway Louisville Kentucky maybe a lot of them seem to be going there that's

00:07:35.020 where my car came from so this and of course Canada can't sustain an auto

00:07:43.480 industry on its own market of 40 million people now it's messy but given time is that actually

00:07:53.000 a viable strategy on mr trump's part and should we be frankly if we're a canadian auto worker

00:08:00.300 looking for something else to do well i think when president trump initially told the auto

00:08:05.060 manufacturers in detroit they had 30 days in which to rejig their supply chains back united states i

00:08:11.280 think that what wasn't understood at the time was the fact that it takes literally years to build

00:08:16.620 factories, and it takes decades to establish, in some cases, supply chain. And remember that on

00:08:22.200 average, in the auto industry, auto parts crisscross the U.S. Canadian border on average five times,

00:08:28.360 sometimes as much as 10 times in the manufacturing process. So we really do need to have

00:08:32.840 no tariffs on intermediate goods to facilitate that process. Already, we've had some bad news

00:08:40.220 in Michigan. They've closed five plants already. Stellantis has closed a plant. And Cleveland

00:08:46.080 Cliffs, the steel manufacturer, has idled one of its blast furnaces. So again, we've had some bad

00:08:53.480 news as a result of this. And this is with most of the tariffs currently being in abeyance before

00:08:58.980 this data came through before we had the full force of the tariffs. So again, I think that as

00:09:05.200 this, we get more and more bad news going forward. If the tariffs are fully implemented

00:09:10.060 and maintained, we will get a recession. And that will, of course, have an effect on the

00:09:15.340 midterm elections next year. And of course, I think a lot of Republican congressmen centers

00:09:20.740 are being quite quiet now, hoping that the courts will shut down the use of IEPA, emergency

00:09:26.200 legislation, to implement tariffs. And because they're frightened, they don't want to be primary

00:09:30.360 right now so again but i think the markets will be a moderating force because we have had some bad

00:09:35.480 news so uh canadian auto workers do they have a career to look forward to or not i think they do

00:09:43.560 um i think that canada does need to diversify its trade export markets and not be dependent on a

00:09:48.800 single market like the united states i i would i would call for that in any situation i do think

00:09:54.000 canada is too heavily dependent upon the united states uh and remember canada does have free trade

00:09:58.960 agreements all around the world indeed i worked um on the seat agreement um between canada and

00:10:05.160 the european union um so that canada can take advantage of trade with europe asia and all

00:10:11.540 around the world given that you know certainly the harper government and others have um you know

00:10:16.360 were very activist in promoting free trade and getting comprehensive free trade agreements

00:10:20.900 they certainly were that um i actually worked for mr harper during those years and that was pretty

00:10:27.200 much while I was writing for a couple of years, is releasing trade agreements.

00:10:31.760 So we were free traders then, we're free traders now, but except that we're not dealing with

00:10:37.860 a free trade United States anymore.

00:10:42.000 I have to wonder whether at a given time, nevertheless, notwithstanding all of the arguments

00:10:48.280 that you've made, the idea of erecting a tariff wall around the United States is actually

00:10:54.720 ultimately going to serve the US well. I wasn't there to listen to the radio broadcast, but we

00:11:04.160 were all taught early on about President Roosevelt, Franklin D. Roosevelt, talking about America as

00:11:12.060 the arsenal of democracy. I don't think that's true anymore. Certainly, that enormous industrial

00:11:21.360 base that enabled the united states to take the war across the pacific to japan in 1941 42 45

00:11:29.660 doesn't we i don't think america could do that today um do you think it could or whether it

00:11:36.940 could or when it wants to i think if you're looking for example i mean president trump

00:11:41.060 certainly has had more of a focus on home as well as um not getting entangled in forever wars abroad

00:11:48.140 Remember, in his first term, he didn't want to intervene in Syria to the anxiety of Prime Minister David Cameron, who's very keen to do so, keeping on the Blair Doctrine of Humanitarian Intervention.

00:11:59.160 I think the United States is pivoting its resources more towards Asia.

00:12:03.320 Ukraine is not in America's backyard, and I don't think it's not electorally favorable to invest in the war in Ukraine, the billions of the Biden administration invested.

00:12:14.300 I think the United States sees more of investing towards Asia because they see China, the people's world of China as more of a serious threat. 0.99

00:12:21.540 So and of course, making other countries pay for their own defense.

00:12:25.920 I mean, Canada, you know, should spend more on its defense, but not just to appease the United States.

00:12:31.560 The United States isn't paying for it.

00:12:33.260 So it can be independently responsible for its own seas, land and skies, as Stephen Harper recently said.

00:12:39.300 I think that if you look at just one country in Europe, like the Kingdom of Denmark, they have a very, very generous social welfare system, and they were able to have that throughout the Cold War to the present day because they weren't spending money on their own defense.

00:12:55.900 They're relying upon the United States security umbrella.

00:12:59.140 And I think President Trump is right to say, and others,

00:13:02.740 to say it's time for other countries to step up the plate

00:13:04.960 because the United States does have $37 trillion in national debt,

00:13:08.400 which is unsustainable, and we can no longer afford to pay

00:13:11.240 for the entire world's security, nor should we.

00:13:14.180 Yes. Well, I must say, Andrew, you're speaking to a true believer here

00:13:20.980 and to a lot of true believers who watch this program.

00:13:23.480 everybody thinks, everybody except our own government thinks that we should have done more

00:13:30.520 and should in the future do very much more in terms of our own defense. Promises have been made

00:13:37.060 to spend enormous amounts of money. It's one thing to promise it, it's another thing to actually do

00:13:43.360 it, to A, provide the funds, and B, provide the mechanism to buy the equipment. Canada has a very

00:13:50.360 bad record of doing them but anyway that's that's a slightly different uh project i'm just

00:13:55.680 i'm just trying to focus on whether this actually makes sense for america given the time make the

00:14:03.480 adjustments bring the industrial base back onto the continent from where it's been a lot of people

00:14:11.020 will be affected by it but in the long haul is this not a good thing to do well i think is if

00:14:19.520 Like I said, I refer to the former ambassador of the United States Trade Representative Office, Ambassador Robert Lighthizer, in his book and his focus on China.

00:14:27.480 And I would have thought we would be doing this.

00:14:29.460 I actually believe that these duties, these tariffs harm America's global leadership, and it undermines our progress in establishing resilient supply chains in this region and outside China in particular.

00:14:42.520 I think the trade war also has the potential to push our allies into the arms of China.

00:14:47.480 So, for example, if you want to convince the Dutch, the Kingdom of the Netherlands, not to transfer critical chip-making technology to the peoples of local China, don't tariff all their stuff.

00:14:58.220 And I just think that the approach on Liberation Day, by just announcing these tariffs, I've already mentioned I don't agree with the methodology, but also I just think it was the wrong approach because we want to trade with these countries and have our allies be able to influence them away from and decouple and de-risk for the peoples of local China. 0.63

00:15:15.300 And I feel that that actually has had a very negative effect.

00:15:21.480 I mean, look, if you look at some very, very hyper-protectionist groups like Coalition for Prosperous America will be one of them.

00:15:28.160 And actually, their head of the trade program is actually Canadian.

00:15:30.800 And he said to me, he says, oh, I think Canadians should just buy local and Americans should just buy local.

00:15:35.260 Look, we're not going to build factories here, for example, to make rope.

00:15:38.740 We wouldn't even employ people to do that.

00:15:40.460 We would just automate that.

00:15:41.620 it's best that we purchase rope from India or Africa or somewhere else. We can buy legacy

00:15:47.080 products from other countries. We don't want Americans to work in those factories. And often 1.00

00:15:51.580 cases, we wouldn't even employ Americans to work in those factories. We would just automate that. 0.99

00:15:55.200 And of course, the unions are opposed to automation. So I just don't think what they're

00:15:59.940 talking about being a sort of totally self-sufficient United States is possible. What we do

00:16:05.960 want to do is near shore and friend shore away from the people's republic of china and and trade 0.93

00:16:12.260 with our allies and friends like canada not tariff them and declare trade wars on them okay fair

00:16:18.020 enough point well made now let's turn back to canada you've lived in canada you have strong

00:16:23.220 canadian connections i even went to school here so you understand the situation very well you know

00:16:28.620 how we think north of the border and of course you're working for the heritage foundation so

00:16:33.220 very au fait with how things are done in washington andrew if you had 10 minutes with

00:16:40.420 prime minister carney and he were to ask you what you thought canada should be doing how we should

00:16:48.100 approach this situation what would you tell him i would say give up the net zero scams i would say

00:16:54.740 They give up all of the ESG and DEI programs.

00:17:00.560 I just feel that there's too many navel gazing on what I would call luxury beliefs and net zero targets manufacturing don't mix.

00:17:11.320 I call it not zero. And I think that's going to be a huge problem going forward between and it has been between the Trump administration and the current liberal government in Ottawa.

00:17:21.780 And it's obviously caused friction between the aspirations of provinces like Alberta and Saskatchewan and the federal government in Ottawa.

00:17:31.360 I just feel that there is an obsession with net zero targets and really it's counterproductive.

00:17:37.700 I would say to Prime Minister Carney, look, your windmills, your solar panels are being made in China and they're building two new coal fire power plants a week.

00:17:47.700 And it's the dirtiest coal in the world.

00:17:49.600 So good luck with that one.

00:17:51.780 That is not helping the environment.

00:17:54.100 So I agree with President Trump when he says, drill, baby, drill.

00:17:57.220 We have false natural resources here in North America.

00:17:59.920 I believe in, you know, we have this, I believe that the United States should be purchasing Canadian energy as we do.

00:18:05.220 And I believe in a great single market here between, under KUSMA, between Canada, the United States and Mexico.

00:18:13.260 And I think that we need to build pipelines as well to export that energy down here in the United States and abroad.

00:18:19.960 obviously not be totally dependent on the u.s market but also open up markets abroad for

00:18:24.460 canadian energy and i know that on the provincial level there's been a lot of outreach and that's

00:18:28.620 being done i've spoken to danielle smith she's doing a great job as scott moe is doing as well

00:18:33.300 in saskatchewan um i would just simply i mean i think that would be fallen deaf ears to finish

00:18:38.160 because i mean mark connie's wife who's brilliant she works for the um eurasia group as does

00:18:42.900 gerald butts they're brilliant people but i think this obsession which is almost like a new religion

00:18:48.820 with these people on ESG is just really a non-starter for discussions between the United

00:18:55.220 States right now and Canada under the current Trump administration. Okay, just for the benefit

00:19:01.140 of people who don't keep up with acronyms, I think a lot of people know ESG is something that's not

00:19:06.300 good, but environmental social governments, how does that actually interfere with what Canada

00:19:14.480 needs to be doing now to get his house in order? Well, I mean, so with regards to the net zero

00:19:22.580 targets, I mean, net zero targets in manufacturing, as I already said, don't mix. They kill industry.

00:19:30.500 I mean, right now, Canada has very, very high energy to a degree and a much higher, for example,

00:19:36.400 Europe has literally outsourced much of its manufacturing to China. And of course, their 1.00

00:19:41.680 The United Kingdom has some of the highest energy in the world now, and it's killing what's left of British industry.

00:19:48.900 I was speaking to an auto manufacturer, parts manufacturer in Northern Ireland, and he showed me his energy bill.

00:19:55.860 And I just was shocked compared to the energy prices we pay here in the United States.

00:20:01.660 And so basically, if you want to engage in that ESG, Mark Carney has even written in one of his books that to achieve these net zero targets and goals and to fully implement ESG and make it a success, we have to become poorer and there will be losers.

00:20:17.760 I don't agree with him. Like I said, it pollutes and poisons everything. So for example, just last year in the United States, we were trying to renew the generalized system of preference, which is a trade preference program for developing countries.

00:20:34.240 And we have the Democrats trying to impose ESG regulations in the renewal of that legislation. Now, in India, gender parity requirements perhaps wouldn't work culturally. In Africa, LGBT requirements perhaps wouldn't work culturally either.

00:20:52.280 And the environmental regulations would make this trade preference program so prohibitively expensive for these developing countries, people will just trade with China anyway. 0.95

00:21:02.800 So, again, I just don't think it's feasible.

00:21:05.840 And quite frankly, I don't actually believe in the climate hysteria either.

00:21:10.800 Well, I think you're speaking for a lot of people who watch this program

00:21:15.220 and lose exactly the prescriptions that we offer here through the Western Standard.

00:21:22.760 Let's get rid of the climate change nonsense.

00:21:25.380 Let's get rid of the ESG, the DEI,

00:21:28.240 and concentrate on doing a good job of what we do best,

00:21:30.960 which is producing energy and exporting it.

00:21:34.420 Andrew, this has been a great conversation.

00:21:36.620 I really appreciate you taking the time.

00:21:38.460 Heritage Foundation, of course, is a really good group. Congratulations on being a member of that,

00:21:46.700 and I want to thank you again for coming on and explaining some of these basic things to us.

00:21:54.060 Thank you so much for having me on. It's been a pleasure.

00:21:56.220 It has been a pleasure. For the Western Standard, I'm Nigel Hannaford.

00:22:08.460 Thank you.

Western Standard - August 22, 2025

American advice for Canada's PM - 'Get rid of DEI!'

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