Western Standard - September 04, 2026


Are activists trying to scare Canadians away from LNG?


Episode Stats


Length

25 minutes

Words per minute

152.05

Word count

3,837

Sentence count

176


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
00:00:00.000 good evening Western Standard viewers and welcome to Hannaford a weekly politics show of the Western
00:00:21.160 Standard it is Thursday August the 27th one thing that's part of life in Alberta is that whenever
00:00:28.860 ever somebody wants to think big and get something done that's going to make money for investors and
00:00:34.060 improve life for people somebody else will step forward and argue why it shouldn't be done
00:00:40.700 in fact they'll sometimes do more than argue they'll try and sabotage your work site as we saw
00:00:45.660 on the building of the coastal gas link a few years ago with me tonight is shannon joseph
00:00:51.340 chair of energy for a secure future welcome shannon thank you for having me always a pleasure
00:00:57.740 shannon um so shannon you recently have been conducting a campaign drawing attention to
00:01:06.300 another campaign against further pipeline development and this at a crucial time
00:01:13.820 when there are some important developments in the works tell us about the developments tell
00:01:18.860 us about the cat the why people are campaigning against it what they're doing the tactics they're
00:01:25.500 employing and what does your organization say about it well thank you Nigel I wouldn't I don't
00:01:31.020 know if I'd call it a campaign but I wrote an article uh called Canada's Strait of Hormuz oh
00:01:36.060 you're come on you're everywhere and with a slogan like Strait of Hormuz that's a campaign so it feels
00:01:41.420 like I wanted people to pay attention because um LNG Canada and the coastal gasoline pipeline
00:01:48.380 uh have allowed Canada to actually be a major exporter of LNG in the world and this has put us
00:01:54.220 on the world stage as being able to provide energy security to our international allies
00:01:59.740 who are suffering a lot right now because of the conflict in the Middle East.
00:02:03.600 Like 20% of global oil and gas supplies have been impacted by that conflict.
00:02:08.180 Most of that was going to Asia, and those are all countries that aren't self-sufficient.
00:02:11.880 So in your article, Shannon, you wrote this.
00:02:15.740 The latest of these campaigns seeks to frighten residents of northern B.C.
00:02:23.740 about what activists claim are the health dangers
00:02:27.800 of the liquefied natural gas.
00:02:31.900 The real aim is to prevent Canadians from exporting
00:02:35.500 and, well, what did you say,
00:02:40.020 energy-insecure nations from accessing Canada's
00:02:44.380 over 400 trillion cubic feet of natural gas reserves.
00:02:49.800 Now, to be sure, activist harassment is not the same thing
00:02:52.880 as the outright war we see unfolding in the Middle East.
00:02:56.100 But you say its impact can be equally serious and strategic.
00:03:01.520 In their recent statement, the G7 nations encouraged
00:03:05.020 the diversification of energy supply routes
00:03:08.180 in order to reduce global vulnerability to the Strait of Hormuz
00:03:13.000 and welcomed the potential for Canada to deliver
00:03:17.040 significant additional capacity to global markets in the coming years. You continue,
00:03:25.020 but that won't be possible if activist groups succeed in creating choke points within British
00:03:32.300 Columbia. Activists often claim to be promoting the interests of local communities, but communities
00:03:39.200 pay the price when activist campaigns destroy some of the best opportunities available to them
00:03:49.640 to end poverty and create a new future. Tell us about that. And the latest activity has been
00:03:57.060 in criticizing LNG Canada during its commissioning, which is going on right now. And while it's
00:04:04.480 exporting. It's working through things at the facility. The BC government and the local
00:04:09.760 community of Kitimat, so Kitimat Regional District, have said, look, we're the most monitored airshed
00:04:15.480 in the world, and we don't see any impacts from this at all. But they've been going into
00:04:21.900 communities scaring people about health risks to them, to their children, et cetera, from this
00:04:28.660 facility. So these people are actually doctors who are-
00:04:32.020 Yes, but they might not be a doctor that has anything to do with environmental health.
00:04:39.020 They might be a psychiatrist.
00:04:40.460 They might be some other kind of doctor.
00:04:42.680 Do we actually know what doctors we're talking about?
00:04:45.700 We do.
00:04:46.180 It's all on their website.
00:04:47.640 But the point is, none of them are, I would say, well-placed to speak on some of these things.
00:04:54.480 But even if they are, they're creating fear that ignores the work that's being done out there by people who live in the places where those risks exist and would be affected by them.
00:05:10.940 So I wanted to call attention to this because there are other LNG projects that are being proposed, including the phase two of LNG Canada's big project, which would also lead to an expansion in what's sent through the coastal gas link pipeline.
00:05:28.220 And there's the Solisim's LNG project. There's wood fiber LNG under construction. People in Alberta are talking about building a new oil pipeline. All of these things become kind of reasons for new activism. That's what we've seen in the past.
00:05:45.580 And I think it's important for Canadians to know that, you know, work has been done to understand the safety of these facilities and that the people who live in the place who were involved in building these projects and who were consulted on these projects, they have benefited significantly from these projects going ahead in ways that wouldn't have been possible if they hadn't been built.
00:06:11.060 So, okay, so what we've got then is we've got a very successful build, not without its controversy at the time, not done without some, well, I think we made reference to them earlier, the damage done to equipment, people climbing up trees and trying to block progress and so on.
00:06:28.480 But finally, we've got the Canada Gas Link complete, and it is feeding a lot of gas.
00:06:35.560 How much gas into a terminal on the coast daily?
00:06:39.760 It's 14 million tons per annum.
00:06:45.460 14 MPTF.
00:06:47.020 I'm going to get you the right numbers.
00:06:49.460 That's a lot of gas.
00:06:51.940 It's a lot of gas.
00:06:52.640 Worth a lot of money.
00:06:53.620 That's right.
00:06:54.220 And it's making a lot of people, giving them jobs and allowing them to do things they never thought they'd be able to do.
00:07:00.280 A lot of those people are indigenous.
00:07:01.880 Not that they need work more than anybody else, but they are traditionally an underserved
00:07:10.880 part of the population and now they're getting a chance.
00:07:14.700 So there's so many good things.
00:07:17.860 What is it that is happening there that the physicians feel justified in going out and
00:07:26.020 getting people scared of it?
00:07:29.560 LNG Canada was the biggest infrastructure project in Canada's history. We have in our
00:07:35.560 Montigny Basin in BC 81 trillion cubic feet of natural gas and that is that is easily accessible.
00:07:45.080 400 trillion cubic feet of gas there if we could get the technology to get it all. So this is a
00:07:52.280 lot of gas and this and we happen to be a 10-day shipping to asia compared to a 20-day or longer
00:08:00.120 shipping through the panama canal and that means uh we can really make a difference to the lives
00:08:07.000 of people um and this has generated a lot of benefits so there in your documentation you
00:08:14.920 We've made reference to flaring. We expect flaring around natural gas and, in fact, around oil projects.
00:08:23.840 Yes.
00:08:25.260 Is it flaring more than it should?
00:08:27.680 Well, right now it's flaring more than it should because it's in a commissioning phase.
00:08:31.940 But that has been completely disclosed publicly. It's been monitored by the B.C. government.
00:08:36.780 And as I said, the mayor of the Kitimat Regional District himself came out and talked about how this airshed is very well monitored.
00:08:47.080 They've had industrial activity from companies like Rio Tinto for many decades.
00:08:51.940 And he's like, there is nothing abnormal going on here.
00:08:56.460 And I should point out that this group doesn't like natural gas stoves and had a campaign related to that a few years ago.
00:09:05.380 So it's not necessarily about the current campaign is about this specific issue of flaring, but it is connected to a much broader effort against the use of natural gas, its connection to buildings, its use in heating.
00:09:19.940 This group and many others who are allied with them, and they do work with lots of other groups, they just don't want people to use this anymore.
00:09:27.920 So I understand that the actual cause of the excess flaring is a broken piece of equipment that is being replaced.
00:09:35.380 I haven't heard about this, but what I do know is that when you're commissioning a new facility, it causes, there's going to be more flaring than usual.
00:09:46.960 There will be unusual issues because you're getting your system to run the way it was designed to run, and there are always things to work through.
00:09:54.820 All right.
00:09:55.620 Well, we won't get super technical, but it was something to do with a nozzle at the top of the stack that cracked.
00:10:03.640 And anyway, it's got to be replaced.
00:10:06.620 When it's replaced, presumably everything comes down into acceptable levels.
00:10:10.920 The company, meanwhile, has put in for special permissions to see them through.
00:10:18.260 How many people have died?
00:10:22.720 None that I'm aware of.
00:10:24.560 Right.
00:10:24.920 And how many people are taking their children into the hospital complaining of the ill effects of smelling too much of natural gases that you can't even smell?
00:10:37.860 None that I'm aware of.
00:10:39.240 Right.
00:10:39.960 So there's a certain amount of, there is something that is not according to specs.
00:10:48.100 But it sounds, and I can't say this, but maybe you can.
00:10:52.060 It sounds that this group of motivated greenish physicians has taken something that's quite modest and turned it in, trying to turn it into a big deal and frighten people.
00:11:05.040 Well, what they have done specifically is help advance resolutions in different municipalities in that region.
00:11:11.580 Part of it calls for an independent study of health effects, which, fair enough, and some of them voted to do that.
00:11:18.840 And part of it calls to remove all support for these kinds of industrial activities and for LNG in particular in that region, which was either rejected by the communities in the region or never got put forward, ultimately.
00:11:37.000 And so I think there are things going on.
00:11:41.320 They're in a commissioning.
00:11:42.200 They might have had a broken hose.
00:11:43.340 But the agenda being advanced, part of it is worthwhile, sure, let's do a health study.
00:11:49.920 Part of it seems a bit disproportionate, let's not have support for this industry anymore,
00:11:55.660 even though its growth is important to the country and they're part of the major projects list.
00:12:00.860 I think everybody understands, and you're welcome to say it again,
00:12:04.580 that the enormous benefits of development to people who have not had much experience
00:12:11.820 of becoming wealthy from development, mainly the...
00:12:16.420 Yeah. My big concern with this effort and why I wrote that article is that they were activists
00:12:23.080 who's tried to prevent both LNG Canada and Coastal GasLink from being built. And when we actually
00:12:29.600 look at what happened in the region, we see an increase of the number of nurses by like almost
00:12:37.480 120 nurses per 100,000 people in the region. That's important. So this is facilitated by
00:12:44.440 the revenues that come? Correct. And attracting people to the region. 75,000, over 75,000
00:12:51.080 construction jobs, 300 permanent, more than 300 permanent jobs that will continue beyond
00:12:57.180 construction. We saw the First Nations in the region, all of whom have benefit agreements,
00:13:02.000 and 16 out of the 20 of whom have equity options in the project, their own source revenue go up
00:13:08.200 159%. And, you know, these are communities that, yeah, have not had the same economic standing as
00:13:16.180 the rest of BC. And we did analysis on our report when our nation builds that shows that discrepancy
00:13:22.960 with the rest of BC and how it shifted. We also showed what they're spending that money on. And
00:13:27.280 the biggest thing was education.
00:13:29.100 And education is actually another number that moved a lot
00:13:32.780 in the period of construction for the project
00:13:34.760 with going from 71% high school completion to 79%.
00:13:40.000 And so I think the question people never ask
00:13:44.620 because you just see the project out there
00:13:46.560 and you're like, oh, we're so glad this exists is,
00:13:49.240 what would have happened if this project didn't happen?
00:13:52.420 What would have happened to the businesses
00:13:54.940 that got 18.4 billion in procurement locally.
00:13:59.380 Well, I think that's the total number.
00:14:01.340 And I think maybe it was closer to 5 billion
00:14:03.380 local and First Nation.
00:14:04.940 What would have happened to those businesses?
00:14:07.840 They wouldn't have gotten those businesses.
00:14:09.240 They would have had to leave.
00:14:10.340 As part of the work we've done
00:14:11.880 to tell the story about the numbers,
00:14:13.960 we interviewed a businessman who had to leave Kinemat
00:14:17.880 because there were no more jobs for him.
00:14:20.240 And when LNG Canada got approved,
00:14:22.120 he and his family were able to move back.
00:14:24.400 And these are the consequences of activism
00:14:29.120 that don't get talked about.
00:14:32.880 There's a kind of a disconnect
00:14:34.220 between the real effects that are being pursued
00:14:37.100 and actually the real things that have helped families
00:14:40.280 and communities materially improve the lives of people
00:14:43.740 who've been looking for these opportunities,
00:14:46.000 maybe for decades.
00:14:47.980 This is why we get off on the track
00:14:49.620 of talking about the activists
00:14:52.140 because you've just detailed the consequences of activism.
00:14:57.100 What else is on the horizon in this industry, in this area,
00:15:01.940 which could be affected by the work of these,
00:15:06.560 I won't call them rogue physicians,
00:15:08.180 but physicians who are more interested in the atmosphere
00:15:10.640 than the health of individuals?
00:15:15.800 Well, I think the first thing is that when people think,
00:15:18.960 oh, you know, if this project gets cancelled in Quebec, let's say if we talked about LNG
00:15:24.660 Segnet, or if this, you know, thing takes a really long time. If we talk about, you know,
00:15:31.160 the very long period of time it took to get LNG Canada from the first idea to being shipping gas,
00:15:38.460 we think there are no consequences. But there are consequences. When Canada becomes a place where
00:15:43.200 projects get cancelled, where construction sites get attacked. People think twice about
00:15:50.980 investing their money here. LNG Canada has five international partners who invested in making the
00:15:57.300 project happen. I'm very grateful to them because the things that Canada needs to build, whether
00:16:02.860 it's pipelines or LNG facilities or nuclear facilities or mines, we need foreign direct
00:16:09.740 investment we need capital from other countries and the things that have happened in canada in
00:16:15.020 the last decade have scared away investment and now we have a major projects office and now we're
00:16:20.220 really trying to show that things can happen and we are a a politically reliable place to do business
00:16:26.700 but we are working against the experience people have had the things they have seen like that
00:16:32.060 attack on the construction site like the rail blockades um and and we have to say no don't
00:16:38.940 worry that won't happen again and uh so i think the success story is important i think new policy
00:16:46.700 has been important and i think canadians need to know um what they're fighting for and they're
00:16:52.460 fighting so that community and they're they're fighting and by fighting i mean supporting the
00:16:57.500 growth of our economy and these projects because at street level in communities in households
00:17:05.420 people can have a better life a higher income afford their groceries and that's the only way
00:17:10.620 to do it that's how you raise standards of living so whatever is true of natural gas pipelines
00:17:18.220 which are generally considered to be better than oil pipelines right is nevertheless true of oil
00:17:26.620 pipelines that is that is correct that is correct so that right now both mr carney the prime minister
00:17:34.300 and danielle smith the premier have high hopes of announcing that a pipeline will be built right
00:17:42.220 but it will be for oil yeah so in addition to noxious fumes coming out of a stack
00:17:51.660 do you anticipate there's going to be a campaign against an oil pipeline as well i'm sure it'll be
00:17:58.700 you know a campaign i'm sure there'll be a lawsuit there'll be all kinds of stuff
00:18:02.300 thrown at this thing as there has been against every project that we've seen in the last few
00:18:07.500 years. I think what's important is that the public is able to discern, okay, what's a real concern
00:18:14.620 here or what's just a campaign? And having a report like When Our Nation Builds that really
00:18:21.660 looks at the local benefits and also projections of what we could get if we keep going with these
00:18:26.940 projects, which includes greater improvements in household incomes, et cetera, can give us the
00:18:32.920 confidence to resist getting, kind of putting the brakes on things because of some of these
00:18:39.740 campaigns. And I think it's especially important for First Nations to see what nations like Haisla
00:18:45.720 and what, you know, the Gitsan and five others who have just done, what the nations, the upstream,
00:18:53.340 who are now major participants what they've been able to do by saying yes even though it's not easy
00:18:58.800 to work through details saying yes and being part of the success of these things has created real
00:19:04.500 benefits and and and it's worth it and they don't need to necessarily buy into Leonardo DiCaprio
00:19:13.060 for lying into their community and saying hey this is bad they know for themselves their own
00:19:18.120 experience. They know the facts of other communities' experience. And so we should
00:19:23.400 take advantage of starting from this place that is benefiting from the courage of the companies
00:19:28.360 and the First Nations and the workers who pushed through and got these projects to happen.
00:19:33.720 Two questions then as we wrap up. The first is what has been the response of communities'
00:19:41.320 councils in the area to the kind of arguments that have been advanced by this group of physicians?
00:19:50.200 Well, I think that the communities in the area have said, okay, well, we care about health,
00:19:55.160 let's do a study. But we support this industry. They've been clear they support this industry
00:20:02.280 and have not advanced kind of the shut down the industry, pushbacking it's the industry thing. But
00:20:07.960 But there are other communities in that region who, you know, haven't weighed in or we haven't seen publicly how they feel about some of what they've heard in the course of this campaign.
00:20:19.000 And I think it's just important for us to know that those of us who care about these things have to be out there as well with the facts and information that can bring balance to the scare tactics that some groups might use.
00:20:37.980 Well, you certainly are. And you are doing that, and that's great. But if you're a council member representing a community which is benefiting from this thing, I find it rather strange that you wouldn't be out there saying these guys are just a title to their opinion, but we don't share it, and we're going ahead.
00:20:57.200 Sometimes they are. And as I said, the mayor...
00:20:59.620 Smithers was one, I believe.
00:21:01.960 Yes, but I think that the reporters don't always go all the way to Kitimat or to Smithers to ask people there what they think about these things, you know.
00:21:11.900 And so they don't always have the same visibility that some of those on the other side have.
00:21:17.480 And I think, too, you know, I'd call on all the journalists and all the people who decide their budgets, make the trip out.
00:21:25.160 Oh, yeah, well, good luck with that.
00:21:27.300 You know, if it's not on the internet, they probably won't.
00:21:30.260 But that leads to the final question.
00:21:37.540 You have answered this question in many places before, but it's always a good thing to say it one more time.
00:21:45.240 Why is and how is natural gas so much better for the environment?
00:21:51.540 If you are a person who really cares about the atmosphere and whether we're warming the earth up,
00:21:56.140 natural gas is the thing why is that the case uh well just on the kind of greenhouse gas question
00:22:05.260 natural gas is 50 of the greenhouse gases as coal which is you know has similar uses
00:22:12.680 especially in electricity and so for countries like india or like china or like vietnam who
00:22:21.540 have millions of people who don't have the electricity they need. Their goal is get
00:22:27.220 everybody electricity. And if they have to burn coal, they will. And most of those countries have
00:22:32.600 been pretty aggressive in building coal fire electricity because they're like, get the
00:22:36.960 electricity. But they still need more energy. And so the question for us is, are we going to get
00:22:43.500 them this lower emitting form of energy? Because it's not just greenhouse gases that are lower in
00:22:50.060 in natural gas compared to coal. It's, you know, nitrous oxides and sulfurous oxides and
00:22:56.960 particulate matter. Like, you know, the things that cause smog are higher in coal than they are
00:23:02.360 in natural gas. So if you care about the environment and if you care about public health
00:23:06.880 and air quality, natural gas burns cleaner than coal. And if you care about people, then you know
00:23:14.080 that people in Vietnam or in India want to have a cool home. They too would like air conditioning.
00:23:22.760 They too would like reliable power for their hospitals. And they're not going to not do that
00:23:29.420 because of any environmental issue. And we see that all the time, like in that Maslow's hierarchy
00:23:37.160 of needs, people want to meet their needs first, and then they care about other values. And I think
00:23:43.800 we in the West and we in Canada have the resources, have the energy security to have
00:23:52.560 really made innovation and strives to be both environmentally innovative and also to develop
00:23:58.040 a resource. If we want to help other countries benefit from that, then we need to think of that
00:24:04.000 big picture. It seems to me that everybody should have access to those things if it can be done,
00:24:10.580 and if it can be done, it should be done in the cleanest way possible.
00:24:13.780 Absolutely.
00:24:14.120 It strikes me a little presumptuous on the part of these doctors to say
00:24:17.960 that we're much too pure to sell natural gas to anybody upon their heads,
00:24:24.220 be it as the temperature goes up.
00:24:26.560 That's right.
00:24:27.220 And in our paper, when we talk about environmental benefits,
00:24:29.720 I'll say one more thing.
00:24:30.640 LNG Canada is 60% less emitting of greenhouse gas
00:24:36.680 than the average facility globally
00:24:38.800 and 35% better than some of the best facilities.
00:24:42.940 And so we are up there.
00:24:44.120 We've made the commitments to do this thing right.
00:24:47.160 And we should be proud of getting our resources
00:24:49.420 to the people who need it because they need it.
00:24:51.660 Canadian brilliance in action for the world.
00:24:54.040 That's right.
00:24:55.200 Quite a slogan.
00:24:57.140 Lovely to see you again in the studio, Shannon.
00:25:00.480 Please keep us abreast of how this campaign develops.
00:25:03.520 and maybe we can have you back
00:25:06.040 to take a progress report in a while.
00:25:08.360 All right.
00:25:08.840 Well, thank you so much.
00:25:10.060 You're very welcome.
00:25:11.680 For the Western Standard,
00:25:13.040 I'm Nigel Hannaford.