Western Standard - Author C J Jackson on his book “So you want to be a dictator”

00:00:00.000 So I do appreciate the book and the title. I got to admit, I haven't gotten a copy here fast enough. But yes, the Supreme Leadership Guide for the Aspiring Authoritarian. So lots of tips and tricks, I imagine. I mean, this has been a void that needs to be filled. I mean, there is no dictatorship one or one or, you know, how to be a tyrant in post-secondary education. So you've given aspiring dictators the means now to start figuring out how to get into that world of authoritarianism.

00:00:25.540 Yeah, I used my secondary education to, you know, do good for a while. And then I decided to turn it towards the evil. So it was a good way to transition from my degree in, advanced degree in international relations and democracy and governance and go, hey, what if we just turn this around for a little bit and see what it looks like?

00:00:50.500 And look, the real fun about this is it's not just a satirical humor book, but it's showing a little bit about the decay of democracy that I've seen in my work.

00:01:03.840 You know, I've been in this industry for about 12 years now, and it's interesting to see for people who aren't in this industry to see, hey, look, this is how quickly you can see your government and your democracy be exploited by just one person or a group of elites.

00:01:28.260 It's it's pretty quick. I was supposed to say individual liberties.

00:01:34.200 I mean, we've kind of seen more challenges in this last couple of years than we have probably in decades for a number of reasons, I guess.

00:01:39.960 But there's nothing like a great emergency to give the authoritarian minded the inspiration to try and see how far they can push the limits.

00:01:47.100 And I just like things being brought up. You know, you can have a tongue in cheek way and still examine a serious message.

00:01:52.340 Absolutely. I think, you know, one of the things that I've learned in my work and I've been in government for 12 years in intelligence agencies with nonprofits and a lot of people look at government and democracy.

00:02:09.740 And they they they get bored because, you know, most of the books about it are 400 pages and they're dry as hell.

00:02:18.080 And what I'm trying to show here is that for, you know, the common person here, this this is how easy it is for someone to take over your rights and your freedoms.

00:02:31.500 Like it's it's it's incredibly easy and it's happening more often now.

00:02:35.980 I you know, the the impetus for this book came in 2010 when the Arab Spring happened.

00:02:42.180 We all thought social media was going to support the improvement of people's lives and it ended up giving a a method for dictators to utilize it to take more power.

00:02:56.400 That's what we've seen.

00:02:58.160 Yeah, well, information, I mean, it can cut both ways.

00:03:00.900 I mean, you know, I don't expect you to know too many on Canadian issues, but things that we've got coming down from Parliament, it's kind of scary lately.

00:03:07.200 We've got a bill coming forth that is going to give customs agents the power to force you to give the password to your phone or tablet when you're crossing the border so they can look within it in case you're carrying any information that's not supposed to come into the country.

00:03:21.840 Again, people brush that off saying I got nothing to hide.

00:03:23.800 Well, careful, guys, this is you know, your whole world is on these digital devices now, and this is a government that feels entitled to go and look into it.

00:03:32.100 Yeah, it's it's you make a good point, Corey, it this is this is the modern version of how dictators control the message and its information.

00:03:43.520 And that's what we've seen air spring 12 years ago, we saw we thought Twitter and social media was going to actually support the prominence of democracy.

00:03:57.700 And instead, dictators and dictator wannabes have used it to actually either delay the information, remove the information, create misinformation or disinformation.

00:04:12.600 And we see that with Russia. We see that with China. We see that with the West now that it's been struggling with it.

00:04:18.840 You know, six years. I mean, I'm the US, you're Canada. We see it.

00:04:22.500 Yeah, well, then we see sometimes dictators come into power through a revolution or a big turnover or a military coup or something like that.

00:04:30.440 But it seems with us in the Western world, we're doing it more with a incremental frog in water sort of approach.

00:04:35.280 But the outcome is going to be the same if we don't pay attention pretty soon.

00:04:38.440 Yeah, you're absolutely right. It's it's it's not as slow moving as we think.

00:04:44.440 We see it in the developing world in the Middle East and we go, well, that wouldn't happen to us.

00:04:49.840 But it's happening. It's been happening for decades and it's just been a little bit slower because we've had the institutions and infrastructure to avoid it where the developing world hasn't. 1.00

00:05:03.540 But it's it's coming and it's becoming easier and easier for them because people don't know what the hell is going on anymore.

00:05:11.460 It's it's and I hate to just push on social media because here we are on social media doing this, but it's taking complex situations and driving them down to 280 characters.

00:05:26.260 You can't do that, but it's easy.

00:05:27.660 Yeah. And the amount of effort being made by all authoritarians, it doesn't have to be necessarily on a government level.

00:05:34.860 It could be on a corporate level. But to want to control that information, they see the power of it.

00:05:38.600 And that's why they're drawn to it. I mean, Arab Spring did expose Twitter as a very powerful tool, actually, an influential one.

00:05:46.080 It made us realize it's more than just a novelty for people to exchange, you know, cat pictures and chatter.

00:05:50.800 But at the same time, now it could turn into something non-beneficial.

00:05:54.560 And we've got to watch for that. I mean, as well with every other platform.

00:05:57.280 And I'll put one an additional point on that, Corey, is what I would say is that it's not just Twitter.

00:06:04.940 It's Internet should be a fundamental right now.

00:06:07.880 It's like water, food and housing.

00:06:12.400 Those are fundamental rights for people to to exist in the world today.

00:06:17.560 And Internet and social media as a subset of that is a fundamental right.

00:06:26.160 And dictators are using that or want to be dictators, you know, wherever you make the line in life is they're using that as a way to deny rights here.

00:06:39.560 And that's what we've been seeing. And I mean, you need that to do work.

00:06:43.460 You need that to pay bills. You need that to basically communicate these days.

00:06:49.760 And we're seeing that utilize more and more against the people who need it.

00:06:56.140 And you make a good point. I just want to add this additional point because my second book is going to be So You Want to Be a Capitalist.

00:07:04.240 And I think you probably agree with me that they and dictators probably match.

00:07:12.880 You know, this isn't against capitalism. This is against the people who abuse capitalism in that way.

00:07:19.120 Yeah. Well, there's this crony capitalism and there's you know, you couldn't call the oligarchs in Russia proper capitalists.

00:07:25.400 I mean, they're entrenched with a dictatorial government.

00:07:27.980 But they use capitalism as a way to get there.

00:07:30.260 Yeah. You can't open a corner store and compete with one of those guys. You'll find it burned to the ground all of a sudden.

00:07:35.140 So it's kind of a misnomer to call it capitalism.

00:07:37.540 Yeah. Well, Putin's 7-Eleven is great. But I mean, yeah.

00:07:41.440 Yeah. Well, and it's funny. I got to actually travel the Soviet Union at the end of the 80s before they sort of sort of open up, I guess you could say.

00:07:49.400 At least, you know, it was formerly Soviet at that time.

00:07:51.120 And when we crossed the border, they searched the bags. This is typical in customs.

00:07:55.520 But the difference was they weren't looking for drugs and contraband like that.

00:07:58.720 They were looking for books and cassettes because information was everything.

00:08:02.500 They wanted to make sure the citizens never saw what's happening outside.

00:08:05.720 They got their source from Pravda. They got their cassettes from local.

00:08:09.400 God, I couldn't imagine how terrible the Russian bands were.

00:08:12.820 But just the extreme lengths they went to to make sure that this sort of stuff didn't come in shows that how important they realize that information is.

00:08:19.780 And dictators today realize the same thing. And that source of information now is the digital world.

00:08:24.960 Yeah, it really is. I mean, we we have a digital science dot. I mean, and and that's that's a big thing.

00:08:33.900 And and dictators have been able and and and, you know, want to be dictators have utilized it so well.

00:08:45.000 And not only that, not just social media, but just controlling the Internet.

00:08:48.600 I mean, you talk about Myanmar, they they can shut down. 1.00

00:08:52.920 They shut down the Internet. Turkey shut down the Internet.

00:08:55.920 Iran shut down the Internet so they could just control it because that's the only way to communicate anymore. 0.59

00:09:02.440 I mean, you can't just share pieces of paper across that to build a following.

00:09:08.920 So it's it's the same.

00:09:12.280 It goes back to my point about the decay of democracy, where dictators have found a way to exploit democracy

00:09:20.960 to feign legitimacy.

00:09:24.240 And that's what's going on.

00:09:25.360 And they're just using social media and the Internet as a way to better do that.

00:09:29.480 Well, I mean, in our case, again, I know our Canadian examples are a little different.

00:09:33.560 We've actually got a number of bills coming through that are literally modeled to control the Internet

00:09:37.960 for the preservation of Canadian culture, they say, for the preservation and fighting of fake news, they say.

00:09:43.280 So they're going to a credit news organizations and say, you're fake, you're not.

00:09:47.240 That's a dangerous road to go down, giving the government full control on what you can or can't see on there.

00:09:51.920 But they are very much trying to get into that.

00:09:55.080 Maybe even some are well-meaning, but you can't give that authority to someone else.

00:09:59.720 You know, this is a this is you make a good point because everything's well-meaning

00:10:03.880 when it comes to theory and bills and then you get to the practicality about it

00:10:08.320 and it ends up being abused.

00:10:11.400 And that's what's happening and we have what's happening around.

00:10:15.520 I know it's happening in Canada.

00:10:17.080 I apologize.

00:10:18.080 I don't know all the things are going on, but in the US, it's happening in a very big sense.

00:10:26.400 It's happening in Europe.

00:10:28.480 It's it's just an easy way to abuse it.

00:10:32.600 And I think that's that's a key point here is what we're seeing is that

00:10:39.000 I'm talking, you know, my books about dictators,

00:10:41.880 but dictators aren't just your Kim Jong-uns or your Putin's.

00:10:45.520 They are your parliamentarians, you know, Canada and congressmen here.

00:10:52.720 They they find ways to abuse those rights and then abuse that freedoms.

00:10:59.160 Well, in our complacency, I mean, we're our own worst enemy to a degree.

00:11:02.960 So I'm sure it made even news.

00:11:05.200 So I made international news when we invoked the actually the Emergencies Act in Canada,

00:11:09.040 which is our version of the War Measures Act to combat protesters in Ottawa.

00:11:13.960 I mean, you know, you're still open to discussion whether those protesters should have been shut down or cracked on upon.

00:11:19.680 But actually, it's a form of martial law to suspend civil rights for that period of time,

00:11:24.680 which meant they could arrest people without warrant.

00:11:26.880 It meant they could actually force tow truck drivers, forced labor. 0.99

00:11:30.840 If they refuse to tow trucks, they'd be thrown in jail.

00:11:33.380 I don't think enough people realize just how significant that line they crossed was when that happened.

00:11:39.080 And, you know, it I fear the precedent, it said, because it kind of let the government know if we can convince people for the public good,

00:11:45.960 we can we can really do a lot of interesting things here without bothering with individual rights.

00:11:51.720 Yeah, I mean, absolutely.

00:11:53.800 I think, you know, I I can't say I'm, you know, a full libertarian here, but I think that there's there there is a balance here.

00:12:03.960 And I'm a little bit disappointed in the way that it government kind of takes the the full attack on everything versus the full freedom that,

00:12:18.280 you know, people want to enjoy.

00:12:20.720 And I think that we we tend to forget the world of regulation.

00:12:26.320 And, you know, there's I mean, that's how society works to to an extent.

00:12:32.400 I just think the government tends to get to, you know, overbearing at a time.

00:12:41.360 And and then that causes a bad reaction from everyone in the US is a is a great example.

00:12:50.000 And again, I'm not an expert on Canadian politics, but I assume, you know, that it's a similar thing.

00:12:59.000 You know, here in the West, we've just we're starting to see that we're starting to see that, you know, tension, if that makes sense.

00:13:08.680 Yeah, our Western democracies are all sort of grappling with similar issues.

00:13:12.760 I mean, we'll have some some nuances between our constitutions and things like that.

00:13:16.480 But for the most part, you know, we've got similar, particularly Canada, the United States, similar cultures and governance systems and challenges,

00:13:23.600 I guess you could say in these times.

00:13:25.240 So getting back to your book, I'm just looking at some of that stuff. 0.98

00:13:27.520 Yeah, a satiric satirical leadership guide for aspiring autocrats and assholes, which is great. 0.97

00:13:33.600 We we embrace assholes a lot on this show, the autocrats we can have some issues with. 0.92

00:13:37.880 But yeah, some of the stuff from within your book, you know, before we let you go, 0.94

00:13:43.040 just to kind of cover what's inside for this rather than our dry discussion on the realities here.

00:13:47.520 Yeah, I know. Yeah, I'm sure people love dry discussion on politics.

00:13:50.800 Oh, this is what we do a lot of.

00:13:52.680 So we're allowed to laugh, too, though.

00:13:55.040 Yeah. Well, just, you know, for you and for everyone listening, look, it's a it's just a satirical human book.

00:14:03.040 It's I've I've spent 12 years in the world of government and corporate, and I'm so you know,

00:14:12.400 I've seen so many leadership books about, you know, how to be a leader and, you know, why shoot for CEO?

00:14:18.720 Go for the top.

00:14:19.880 But the real grouping here is that it's a step by step guide of how dictators become dictators

00:14:29.800 and how you can be one if you want to. I mean, you know, just give me a little credit and, you know,

00:14:34.760 don't kill me. But and and then it gives you a lot of, you know, history about previous dictators,

00:14:44.520 where it came from and a lot of the dictators that we have today and probably places you didn't think of.

00:14:51.400 And the reality of this is, look, you're not going to go and read a 400 page book about dictatorship and democracy.

00:14:59.000 So why not have a little laugh and learn about, you know, how democracy works and how it can be exploited?

00:15:06.120 Because it's pretty damn easy. And it's been happening for a while.

00:15:09.560 Yeah, though, I wouldn't want to discourage people from reading The Road to Serfdom and some of the other good publications.

00:15:14.680 Of course. Yeah, yeah. I'm not. I didn't mention any other books.

00:15:17.960 But I mean, it's great. And satire is important and it makes serious messages digestible.

00:15:23.640 I mean, there's there's so many great long columns.

00:15:26.360 I mean, I've written columns and I see that some fantastic political cartoonist has actually managed

00:15:30.840 to get out in one image what I had to write 800 words to try and get across.

00:15:35.240 And they will have reached far more people than I have, you know, so comedy can make messages.

00:15:40.680 It really can. And I mean, I started in comedy and then I went to politics.

00:15:44.280 So and then I came back to comedy. So that's how it happened.

00:15:48.120 And I hope that the people who, you know, don't want to read, you know, a Samuel Huntington book

00:15:54.280 can read this and go, oh, OK, at least I get it a little bit and I have some time.

00:15:58.760 It's, you know, it's a 200 page book. It's pretty short.

00:16:01.080 Well, comedy and politics are a lot more closely related than a lot of people.

00:16:05.880 Yeah, they are too closely related.

00:16:12.120 Monologues and books and everything else.

00:16:14.920 Yeah. Well, I know.

00:16:16.040 I really appreciate that.

00:16:17.240 And as you say, it's packaging.

00:16:18.360 Something is a serious issue, but make it digestible and make it some fun.

00:16:21.960 Some of the quotes.

00:16:22.600 I mean, the things online, you know, let's see your review from Vladimir Putin

00:16:26.440 goes great with polonium tea and failed invasions of Ukraine.

00:16:30.600 We've got to let ourselves laugh at times.

00:16:32.360 Yeah. I mean, and what I would say to everyone is dictators hate being made fun of.

00:16:38.520 So laugh at them, laugh at them as much as you can, because they hate that.

00:16:44.120 And that's, you know, if you can't do anything else, at least laugh at them.

00:16:48.760 True enough. They're all about vanity.

00:16:50.440 If nothing else, that's for sure.

00:16:52.840 Well, thank you very much for coming on to discuss that and for releasing that book.

00:16:56.040 I hope we haven't exposed you to too many of the authoritarians and tyrants.

00:16:59.800 And if you manage to survive the purge or the hog,

00:17:05.240 we'll hold you back perhaps when your next book comes out there.

00:17:08.760 Well, thank you for having me, Corey.

00:17:10.280 And to all my aspiring authoritarians in Calgary and wherever you're viewing,

00:17:15.720 just please just let me live for a little longer.

00:17:18.440 I just got a little more.

00:17:19.800 All right. Excellent.

00:17:21.320 Well, thank you very much.

00:17:22.200 It was good talking to you.

00:17:23.240 And thank you, Corey.

00:17:24.280 Appreciate it.

Western Standard - June 07, 2022

Author C J Jackson on his book “So you want to be a dictator”

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