Western Standard - Calgary’s climate change plan is set to come in at a cost of $87 billion ...

00:00:00.000 87 billion dollars on climate i i also thought it was a type i thought it was 87 million dollars

00:00:07.600 um basically the the city administration the bureaucrats working at city hall

00:00:12.880 um have gone down the rabbit hole of climate change come up with every single possible thing

00:00:17.840 they could think of put it all on their wish list and said to council gimme right and the bill comes

00:00:23.760 to 87 billion dollars that's what they think it will cost to get calgary to net zero by 2050 which

00:00:29.760 is the the in vogue thing at the moment um and and to be clear 87 billion dollars is about 175 000

00:00:39.280 per calgary household so that that's why this is just i mean even if it was 17 and a half thousand

00:00:44.960 dollars even if it was one thousand seven hundred and fifty dollars that's ridiculous 175 000 per

00:00:51.280 household and a number of of council members are saying this is fantastic let's get going let's get

00:00:56.080 rolling i mean they aren't floored by this i i just can't believe this i mean not only that there's

00:01:02.240 that's the cost of implementing but they aren't measuring the cost of the commerce and people

00:01:07.040 they're going to drive out of this city if they really actually move forward right well i i think

00:01:10.640 this is the perhaps the problem at city hall it's something that we've been talking about for a long

00:01:15.440 time it's just the complete lack of understanding about economics about how you calculate the costs of

00:01:20.480 things about uh cost benefit analyses um any kind of like rational analysis of the pros and cons of

00:01:27.600 projects right in theory what you should be doing when when a plan is proposed you should be figuring

00:01:32.160 out well what are the benefits of the project what are the costs of the project do the benefits outweigh

00:01:36.960 the costs ideally you do that with a whole bunch of different alternatives so you're not just not just

00:01:42.960 testing whether the benefits outweigh the costs but is this actually the best use of this money or these

00:01:47.440 resources and then you go ahead with the best option what they get what these guys seem to do

00:01:51.760 is just figure out what the benefits are and then ask people to pay for it it's just there's nothing

00:01:56.960 right it's it's it's insane well and again i worry because i mean we've got you know a flight

00:02:02.000 of capital from this city this has been happening for a while we got a hollowed out downtown

00:02:06.000 and they do seem to recognize it's a problem but with the usual approach of my favorite little

00:02:09.920 organization calgary economic development and their slush fund that brought in such great things

00:02:14.720 as rocket space and and other failed ventures and we're also seeing a trend of businesses just

00:02:20.880 sitting up on the outskirts of calgary i mean the md of rockyview has been the recipient of a lot of

00:02:25.840 business uh as well i don't know what happened with that amazon uh data center or something like that

00:02:31.760 they announced it you know that being this giant venture is going to bring in jobs but they never

00:02:34.880 would say exactly where it's going to be and from what i could suspect it's not going to be in the city

00:02:39.200 yeah we've we've been trying to figure that one out as well and and they've been very tight-lipped on

00:02:42.960 that and and i suspect the reason they don't want to say where it's going to be is because it's not

00:02:46.480 going to be in the city uh limits and and so that defeats all of their arguments about how amazing it

00:02:51.280 is for the city of calgary it's obviously good for alberta but there's a there's a good reason

00:02:55.360 why it's not going in calgary and that's because of the cost of doing business in calgary but but

00:02:59.520 you know again it's just yet another example of where they add up the benefits of everything you want

00:03:05.920 to do and then they minimize the cost as much as possible and then go look see this is a great idea we

00:03:11.280 should do it you saw in the newspaper uh the day after the announcement about this well the city

00:03:15.600 bureaucrats are warning well if you don't do this it could cost more oh i mean yeah i mean maybe like

00:03:20.880 if you but but but this is the problem right they they're willing to count the direct costs and the

00:03:25.600 direct benefits and then they throw in all these ridiculous ancillary potential hypothetical

00:03:30.880 benefits to society which some may be fair enough some might not be that you can basically make

00:03:35.680 a cost benefit analysis say whatever you want now with all of those things oh yeah but if you're going

00:03:40.000 to include all those ancillary sort of indirect benefits you have to also include the indirect

00:03:44.240 costs which is as you say hey if we take 175 000 from every family that's 175 000 that they can't spend

00:03:52.320 in the city and city businesses and growing the economy in calgary there's no there's no free money

00:03:56.560 the the money that the city spends isn't magical new money that they've invented out of nowhere that's

00:04:02.320 what the federal government does um the city of calgary can't do that they they have to take the money

00:04:07.680 from taxpayers first before they spend it so every dollar they spend and every benefit that they

00:04:13.280 get from spending that money has a an equal if not worse cost on the other end when they take

00:04:19.520 the money in the first place and they just ignore that yeah and it seems that in my view i mean they're

00:04:23.920 fabricating the cost of not doing something i mean fine people are concerned you want to do some things

00:04:28.000 but uh well two things for for example i mean for one what on earth is going to happen in the next

00:04:33.520 decade and some that's going to cost us 87 billion and changes i mean the sea levels that never did

00:04:38.080 rise are suddenly going to start become rising and crest the rocky mountains and actually flood calgary

00:04:42.400 or uh you know well we the sun gets so darn hot in the next few years that we'll have complete this

00:04:47.680 desertification because that's what it'll take to get to those levels of what they're talking about

00:04:51.520 i mean the the thing is some of the things they're proposing aren't even necessarily bad ideas

00:04:57.680 right like no one in theory is opposed to the idea of more efficient buildings that require less

00:05:02.960 electricity why because that gets your costs down right if if you're a business owner and you're

00:05:07.680 building some kind of facility or some kind of building you want to do so in a way that that can

00:05:12.000 keep your costs down but if you ignore the cost of actually upgrading the building which is what

00:05:17.440 they're trying to do right um well then that doesn't that doesn't start to look very good right so

00:05:22.800 you know uh that what what else they also want all 60 of all trips in the city to be done by walking

00:05:29.680 wheeling or transit uh by 2050 which you know again it's it's just this top-down culture of

00:05:35.600 well we're gonna we're gonna tell you how you're gonna live your life and what's best for you and

00:05:39.760 uh we're gonna make you pay for it as well well they're saying i mean it's a term i wish would

00:05:43.920 come back more because it was a big term in the past it's social engineering right they feel that

00:05:47.760 it's their role as elitists to tell us how to behave ourselves how we lead our lives and what we'll do

00:05:52.640 and they want two-thirds of this city to not own personal vehicles that's their ideological bent

00:05:57.600 and they want to use policy in order to force that well and the great irony is that the re the fact

00:06:05.680 that they need to propose these ideas is proof that their ideas don't work because in theory we're

00:06:12.000 supposed to have a carbon tax and the carbon tax is supposed to incentivize people to do the right

00:06:17.120 thing according to the environment right so with a carbon tax that should be using a price mechanism

00:06:23.680 as their argument goes encouraging people to do the right thing in the first place it should be

00:06:28.000 encouraging people to walk or buy consider drive it should be encouraging people to upgrade their

00:06:33.120 facilities and their buildings to be more energy efficient the fact that they're going to have to

00:06:36.720 come in and have the government mandate and and pay for this through taxes just proves that the

00:06:42.080 incentive scheme that they implemented through the carbon tax doesn't actually work so we've got one

00:06:46.960 policy of theirs that doesn't work and then because it doesn't work they're going to propose another

00:06:50.640 policy and i predict this one won't work either and then they're going to come up with another one

00:06:54.640 and and all that's happening is calgarian taxpayers are paying over and over and over again for more

00:06:59.040 and more failed policies well that's it i mean bc's been a good example they've had a carbon tax for a

00:07:03.040 long time out there now and the numbers year after year after year it has not impacted the emissions

00:07:08.720 and that that's part of the the other thing as well i mean even if that they managed to blow this 87

00:07:15.600 billion and you know common sense doesn't somehow uh come into them by that point and even if all of

00:07:20.880 those policies come into being and they really have that much transit and that many people the impact

00:07:25.760 it will actually have on the climate is going to be pretty negligible yeah and and i think it's also

00:07:30.960 important to remember that it will probably end up being more than 175 000 because it's so so their 0.85

00:07:38.400 argument is that they're going to try and get the province and the federal government to pay for some

00:07:41.520 of this which okay fine and and on first glance that might sound like a good idea we can have

00:07:46.800 somebody else pay for it but exactly yeah if you're a calgary taxpayer guess what you pay provincial

00:07:52.240 and federal taxes now if you're a montreal taxpayer and you get the provincial or the federal government

00:07:57.600 to pay for something especially the federal government that's actually a benefit to you

00:08:00.960 because what that means is alberta taxpayers are subsidizing whatever it is that the federal

00:08:05.200 government is paying for for a montreal taxpayer but if if the provincial and federal government

00:08:10.320 are subsidizing something for the calgary municipality well you can bet that they're

00:08:14.720 going to do the same thing for all the other cities around the country as well

00:08:17.920 and alberta and calgary taxpayers subsidized taxpayers in the rest of the country so we're

00:08:22.320 not only going to be paying the 87 billion dollars to do this in calgary we're going to be paying more

00:08:26.720 through our federal taxes to help other cities do this as well the economic horror cycle just kind of

00:08:30.960 continues so i mean is there any chance of heading this off i mean right now it's just a policy proposal

00:08:36.400 uh it's being embraced by gondek and a few of the members of council but it doesn't mean it's been

00:08:40.560 passed or implemented i mean can opposition start rising and amend this thing or scrap it or anything

00:08:46.400 of the sort i mean yes um we we have a petition on the common sense calgary website commonsensecalgary.com

00:08:52.880 where we're encouraging people to get involved and just uh you know like you said organize uh we don't

00:08:58.080 want to learn any policies lessons from the the left-wingers but we can definitely learn some organizing

00:09:03.440 lessons and that's what we're trying to do on this issue and the more people we can get to sign that

00:09:06.640 petition the more people we get to realize that this is just a completely insane idea the more that

00:09:10.640 will help um but we also have to recognize that you know this is a long ongoing battle they did exactly

00:09:16.160 the same thing with the green line you know uh first the green line was just a policy proposal

00:09:21.120 and it was just a hypothetical and there were just some random costings and and uh you know and then

00:09:26.640 eventually through the levers of government the wheels churn and churn over time and it's just this

00:09:32.000 uh a move you know uh just has its own momentum right um so we really need not just to be opposing

00:09:39.520 one-off things like this but really getting the average calgarian to have a better understanding of

00:09:43.840 what's happening at city hall and how we can stop some of these things in the long run well we have

00:09:48.480 to engage as voters more with our municipal politics that was something i was a little getting a

00:09:52.160 bit chiding yesterday when i ranted about this or maybe the day before but part of the issue is we have

00:09:57.040 terrible voter turnouts when it comes to municipal elections not just calgary it's across the world

00:10:01.440 uh we pay close attention to the federal and provincial actions and we overlook the government

00:10:06.640 that's actually closest to us and we don't pay close attention and that's how we get elect some

00:10:10.960 people that you know after they've been in for a while you scratch his hat how the heck do they get in

00:10:15.040 there i think part of the problem is a lot of people look at municipal government and they think

00:10:18.480 well you know it's fixing potholes and it's uh collecting the garbage and that's what they're

00:10:22.960 supposed to do stuff like that and you're right that's what they're supposed to do the reality of

00:10:26.400 municipal governments now is they do social welfare and housing and climate change and they've become

00:10:32.400 massive ginormous entities that collect huge amounts of taxes and people are still acting as if they're

00:10:38.080 these tiny little organizations that have barely any impact on their lives when actually hey guess what

00:10:43.040 they can propose something tomorrow that costs you 175 000 per household and and you know theoretically

00:10:49.040 there's no reason there's there's no legislative uh mechanism to stop them from doing that it's just

00:10:54.560 the the will of the voters and the the activity and the energy of people to get out there and and make

00:10:59.440 their voices heard that's the only thing that can stop them from doing that yeah and this ridiculous

00:11:03.120 plan i mean it's supposed to happen over the next 28 years so i mean it'll be very costly right off the

00:11:07.200 bat but i mean time i i guess it doesn't have it's not a done deal no matter what the even this

00:11:12.080 administration says it doesn't have to be a done deal uh things that i mean they put out stuff like

00:11:16.640 imagine calgary that thing i waded through that horrific document years ago and i mean it was

00:11:22.720 well basically it was laying out what this plan is today in a lot of ways there were crazy pie in

00:11:26.640 the sky ideas and things and people forgot that ninchy actually said he's going to model his plans

00:11:31.280 after that well and you're right it's over a long period of time i think 28 28 years you know by

00:11:36.720 that by 2050 is what they're trying to achieve but let's not forget that that still works out to

00:11:40.400 more than like 20 000 per household per year right it's just in in saying that sorry i don't think

00:11:46.400 it's 20 000 i've got the number in front of me but it's tens of thousands of dollars per household

00:11:51.520 per year even if you stretch it out over the year so it's just it's just fanciful the idea um but what

00:11:57.120 you said there the imagine calgary and all the other strategies and documents that is how they do it

00:12:01.520 they start very very high level this is all hypothetical just you know we're just proposing some ideas

00:12:07.840 and then they come up with some plans and then they get counsel to vote for a policy you know it's just

00:12:12.240 guiding policy it's no specifics but then when they propose specifics anybody who tries to oppose it

00:12:19.360 they then say well why would you be opposed to this we've already got a policy we've already got a

00:12:24.000 strategy we already agreed to that you've already committed to this you have to do this because this

00:12:28.000 is what we already committed to and so it's that ratchet effect just little by little by little by

00:12:32.160 little uh they say don't worry this isn't going to be anything too dramatic you're not committing

00:12:36.320 anything you're not you're not committing to anything long term here and then they flip the switch and

00:12:40.720 they say well you've already committed you've already committed to this you've already agreed

00:12:43.360 to this you've already spent all this money you know we've already committed to to this plan why

00:12:47.360 would we turn back now right that's what gets me too yeah with the frog and water and this and the

00:12:51.520 the sunk money that's part of how they did a bit of the green line too well look we spent all this

00:12:55.280 already we have to finish this thing now right right well i mean it's it's the sunk cost fallacy except

00:13:00.800 it is uh the city administration deliberately using the sunk cost fallacy as a strategy to get buy-in for

00:13:08.080 their plans well and they use these things too especially if suddenly we get that the federal

00:13:12.080 government comes in you know justin truett wouldn't shock me he's gonna come and say yeah you know

00:13:15.760 i'll kick in 10 billion on that and i know what exactly what city council do they'll come back and

00:13:19.920 say look if anybody opposes this now you're throwing away 10 billion dollars right here you're going to be

00:13:24.240 just burning it up and throwing it in the garbage so we have to impose this or we won't get that one and

00:13:28.640 the federal government do the same to the province as well right that's how we ended up with the child care deal

00:13:32.320 right the the federal government took over child care last year barely anybody noticed because if the

00:13:37.760 provincial government had opposed the plan they would have been giving up billions of dollars

00:13:40.800 right but but that's another thing we have to start explaining to calgarians to albertans that

00:13:45.680 all of these like matching funds deals from the federal government are actually a bad deal for us

00:13:50.640 because it's not like they're only giving calgary or only giving alberta the money they're doing for

00:13:54.560 everyone else as well and we subsidize everyone else we so we should be trying to get rid of all those 0.84

00:13:58.800 matching things and you know calgary taxpayers can pay for calgary stuff and edmonton taxpayers can pay for

00:14:04.400 edmonton staff and alberta can pay for alberta everyone else can pay for everyone else yeah it's

00:14:08.800 just bad policy and you know that as it means a leader if you go dangling that you know it's like

00:14:12.400 a household it's one of the kids there you got to give it to the other ones too or you're going to

00:14:15.280 have some problems particularly if those kids are as loud as montreal yeah exactly okay well so much to

00:14:22.000 go into since i've got you here maybe explain a little bit about what common sense calgary is i didn't

00:14:26.080 really introduce you very well yeah and i know there's a lot more you're working on than just this this

00:14:30.720 climate plan it's just that this one just really brought the municipal thing to to bear because

00:14:34.560 it's just so so over the top yeah i mean as i alluded to before common sense calgary um follows

00:14:40.560 what's happening at city hall and tries to bring attention to it for calgarians so that calgarians

00:14:44.800 can be more informed about what what is going on in our municipal government right and what we've been

00:14:50.400 talking about today about the climate plan is how they operate on almost every issue right they

00:14:55.280 they add up all the benefits they ignore all the costs and then they talk about how amazing all

00:14:59.600 their plans will be and anybody who opposes it would be crazy and we're there to point out well

00:15:04.240 hang on that's not always how it works you have to consider both the costs and the benefits you have

00:15:08.880 to consider the other side of the story you have to consider other factors and alternatives and and

00:15:12.880 so what we're trying to do is we're trying to bring more attention to what's happening at city hall

00:15:16.800 help people have a better understanding of all these proposals that are being brought forward and make

00:15:21.680 sure that people are aware of what the councillors are doing what the mayor is doing what's happening in

00:15:26.960 those meetings what happens in the committee meetings what's buried on page 374 of the report

00:15:31.840 that they don't want you to see all that kind of stuff yeah well and that's important i mean it's

00:15:35.600 part of why for example i like black locks reporter or as we do with the western standard but one of

00:15:39.280 the things that black locks does a lot actually they follow those committee meetings they dig into

00:15:42.480 those policy things on our behalf and then we can get the the cole's note version because not

00:15:47.040 everybody has the time to to mire through that so and and city hall loves doing that too i mean obviously

00:15:52.560 you know to hide something in a big giant report and it's buried in the middle and the public can

00:15:56.800 forget about it so i mean bringing that to attention at least catches them in the act i guess you could

00:16:00.240 say exactly yeah yeah and uh it's not funeral you know i mean pushing back it might feel like it

00:16:04.800 sometimes but i i think of things like when gondek jumped out and said we're going to spend it wasn't

00:16:09.760 much in the grand scheme of things i think 121 000 or something to take part of the challenge the

00:16:14.400 legal challenge against bill 21 and come back well it's it's not a matter that it was only 121

00:16:20.560 thousand it's that it was so far out of your jurisdiction that calgarians got up and said

00:16:25.600 no you aren't cut it out and she did she backed off i mean and regardless of your opinion on that

00:16:31.360 particular bill it's just not the job of calgary government well that's it to be funding lawsuits

00:16:36.480 in other provinces right we wouldn't we wouldn't want montreal to be start funding lawsuits against

00:16:41.360 freedom-loving legislation in calgary or alberta right um so no it's it's all about ensuring that

00:16:47.680 people know what's going on but also advocating for common sense ideas and common sense solutions

00:16:52.560 and and solutions to the problems that we have at city hall and and getting the city back to

00:16:57.280 the core role that it should be focused on right people don't mind a municipal government people

00:17:01.920 don't mind paying taxes to deal with true public good issues like potholes and garbage collection in

00:17:09.120 some cases and things like that right where where there's a benefit to having some some kind of

00:17:14.160 collective action to come together and do these sorts of things um it's just when the city gets

00:17:18.160 into all this nonsense that people have problems and and you know i really think one of the main

00:17:22.800 problems we have at city hall now is that they spend so much time focused on stuff that isn't their job

00:17:28.800 not only are they wasting taxpayers money on all that stuff but they're also so distracted with that

00:17:33.600 stuff that they're not even doing a good job at the things that are their job oh yeah right so

00:17:38.160 we're getting hit both sides we're getting all of these crazy policies that we have to pay for that

00:17:41.600 nobody wants and then we're getting really bad service on the things that we should be funding

00:17:46.640 and that most people have no problem paying for these are managers of billions and billions of

00:17:50.560 dollars and that can spend an entire day talking about the official bird or who the latest poet laureate

00:17:55.360 is going to be or and and meanwhile major policy issues are being overlooked yeah and we've got we've

00:18:00.960 got issues with crime on the lrt and we've got issues with safety and we've got uh you know issues with

00:18:06.880 um businesses going out of business because they can't afford their property taxes anymore and you

00:18:12.960 know garbage collection and all the kind of basic stuff that the city should be doing isn't working

00:18:18.240 and yet we've got time like you said to deal with a bird or a climate strategy that no one's ever

00:18:23.600 going to be able to pay for or anything like that no one asked for it look i mean part of the problem is that

00:18:29.440 um politicians who are attracted to power and influence as opposed to ideas are attracted to

00:18:39.440 municipal government because historically there's been you know much less scrutiny and because

00:18:45.440 because there aren't restraints really on what municipalities can do right um if you run for

00:18:50.160 provincial government you can't start creating your own army or negotiating your own trade deals or

00:18:55.840 uh you know yeah but you know if you're running a provincial government you can't start doing stuff

00:19:01.920 that the federal government's supposed to be doing if you're a municipality and you go off and you start

00:19:06.640 building houses and doing climate plans and all that kind of stuff uh the provinces let municipalities

00:19:12.000 get away with that and and so uh it's kind of a really easy way for politicians to get in their

00:19:16.960 influence and push their ideas in a way that they wouldn't be able to do in a provincial or federal

00:19:21.200 government um and they haven't had any pushback or opposition to that until now and that's what

00:19:26.400 we're trying to do now yeah well that's what we got assistance and that's just why i wanted to

00:19:29.440 remind everybody like i said with that that one example with gonda because she seems to be very

00:19:33.120 intractable and stubborn sometimes but you know what when her finger got burned with that quebec 1.00

00:19:37.280 thing she backed off right so it can happen it can work if we speak up if we you know as as always

00:19:43.360 the one thing the politicians are most uh worried about is getting re-elected so if we can show them

00:19:47.840 that they're really off base with voters and that people really care about an issue and willing to

00:19:51.760 get out there then they'll back off so that that's it the calgarians have to get involved and get active

00:19:56.800 and encourage them to do so and get in touch with common sense calgary and the time starts now i mean

00:20:01.120 you know it's three and a half years till the next uh municipal election but hey why wait until then you

00:20:06.640 know if they're they're always doing internals they're always watching if they think oh my god i'm

00:20:10.320 going to be unemployed in three and a half years they're going to reevaluate their path yeah and and it also

00:20:14.800 doesn't just have to be the election right we can as you as you said we can influence decisions we can

00:20:19.680 influence what's happening at city hall we can get them on a better direction just by having people

00:20:23.760 stand up and say that they care about an issue and they're willing to get involved it doesn't have to

00:20:27.120 only be elections as well uh we can really be advocating on issues every day not just on election

00:20:32.480 day all right on well thank you again for coming in to talk to us about it and for the work you guys

00:20:36.880 are doing this that reminder it's common sense calgary and uh yeah just get on online and check them out

00:20:42.160 guys and uh you know helps keep you up to date and for the listeners and viewers outside of calgary

00:20:47.200 i mean this is a municipal issue everywhere right you know there's organizations and there's people

00:20:51.360 or activities you know to keep pushing back because this is well and there are also common sense groups

00:20:55.680 in edmonton red deer lethbridge and medicine there we go so you can go check out those groups as well

00:21:00.400 excellent all right well good to see you peter thanks for coming in and i'm sure we'll talk again soon

Western Standard - June 06, 2022

Calgary’s climate change plan is set to come in at a cost of $87 billion ...

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